Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
This felt like an episode right off the Dr. Phil show - at any moment I was expecting you to ask her: How's that working for ya? When his money surpasses hers, he can't help but to treat her like she's treating him. Silly rabbit, trix are for kids. I feel sorry for her
I love the videos with the convo Ramit! And what I also love is how you point out prompts/questions to think about at the beginning of the comment section so people will take a second to pause and think about their reaction (instead of mindlessly comment their hateful reaction as so easily happens on youtube vids)
I would be willing to come on your podcast and share every detail of my financial life. How can I sign up to do that haha? Thanks Ramit for all that you do, Dave C
If Nate wants a wife who is going to be supportive and stand by him during hard times, he should find another girl to marry. In real life there are health issues, business failures, law suits, serious accidents… She is holding $3k over him like a loan shark to go see her family. I would have never married my wife if she treated me like this. I’m the bread winner in our family and the money I earn is our money. I trust my wife.
I’m a woman and I wouldn’t do that to my husband either. Relationships and marriage aren’t business, nowadays people are making it all seem like business
This is so bizarre and mind-boggling. If I was earning almost TWICE as much as my partner, and I REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted them to go on a TRANS-CONTINENTAL trip with me to meet my family, and they couldn't afford to go, but I could afford to pay for both of us ... I would just pay for both of us. With no resentment and no expectation to be paid back. This trip was HER choice. I don't see an exhausted medical resident making 45k deciding of his own accord to go to Asia. The trip is something she wants, that he doesn't really have the time or money for. She should have absolutely paid for it and just left it at that. This is kinda crazy. Like I would never DREAM of making the person I love feel like they were being priced out of being in my presence, or priced out of meeting my family.
Yup!! Completely agree. Also they are engaged, he bought her a ring. Probably had to save up for that. And how he has to save up 3K to pay her back for this trip? While living paycheck to paycheck and also treating her all the time because she expects it?
And let me guess? The ring wasn't less than $1,000 right? SHE probably expected a ring AT LEAST $10,000. That's when you need to dump the woman. NO woman in her right, EQUALITY mindfulness would ever expect their partner to spend more than $1,000 on a ring, unless he is making WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH money to pay for even a year's worth of expenses all in one. If your partner or you or you and your partner can't pay for a year's worth of expenses all in one, forget the damn ring. So much stupid status peer pressure comes from the marriage and ring culture. It's a stupid rock on a piece of metal.@@easyveganfoodie
I wish the option of not asking Nate to pay her back had been discussed. They are taking a trip to visit her family that he cannot afford, but she can. Why can’t she be generous here, and thankful that he is coming along despite his busy residency? I’m floored that she is pestering him to pay her back for something he is doing to make her happy, especially given his financial season.
@@daddybgoodwho's to say the stress isn't a valuable and useful tool? The more she can flaunt how stressed and frustrated she is, the more she can manipulate him by avoiding confrontation or training him to blame himself. I don't think it's intentional, but it is the result of her behaviour. Even in the role-playing she has to ham it up to 11 to even attempt to offer him some generosity. It's gross honestly.
As a wife married to a resident and engaged while in college and being the one working through our med school journey for the last 10 yrs… this is wilddddd… Nate reconsider your life partner immediately!! You know what you signed up for when your choosing to be a partner/fiancé/wife to a medical student with huge debt. Come onnnn.. I can’t even imagine.. this hurts my soul…
But wait a minute. They are engaged and his going to be making like 300,000 soon enough. I would 💯 have my fiancés back with bills. Like his studying and clearly needing a bit of support. I was in Nate’s position before. It’s really hard when you earn differently in relationships. Also his going to see your family, like $3,000 to pay back shouldn’t be a question every week.
As a now doc I appreciate this comment. That grind sucks. You spend most of it poor and barely making it. That she forced this guy into 3k of more debt that he didn’t want is terrible. May as well be 9k.
@@beto6319 exactly, your pursuing your career and we know the medical field takes forever. It’s not like your getting wasted every weekend. Good people should be rewarded not punished. And should feel supported.
Nate: If you're read this. Absolutely get a prenup and don't combine finances when you start making your post-residency income if this is how she's treating you now.
Prenup is not likely to help much here unfortunately. The prenup only protects assets you have before marriage but with where they are in the relationship it’s likely they’ll marry and then accumulate assets.
@hockysa Wise and valid statements 👌 I feel as if she is JEALOUS of Nate and emotionally hurting him with her financial woe is me statements. Once he finds a woman who enjoys him, he will be gone with the wind 🏃♂️
I wouldn't think so c: seems like she's financially competent, that's kind of what the whole conversation is about. So competent and keeping her money that she literally can't stop asking and it's turning into nagging
As a resident doctor with a fiancé who makes more than me, the way Serena acts towards Nate is interesting considering they are getting married and she knows how much he’s going to make once he’s done with residency. This is a very shifty dynamic and may not work out for them in the long run. Marrying someone in med school or residency is like an investment. It’s tough sometimes but it’s about supporting someone during one of the most difficult career training processes there are until they make it to the end and she doesn’t seem to be very supportive at all
I agree. I married a doctor, my first love. I was with him most of his long career. We shared the little money we had and made it work. I stopped being with him for three last years of his Residence because I his life was too stressful and he did not have the time and I wanted to have fun and have a full time bf or just have fun. We met again by accident and we have been together ever since and we want to save more. This lady needs to leave him alone. Being a doctor is not easy. Two options. Be kind and supportive or leave him alone. Those holidays are a money mistake, Nate. If they are meant to be in the future, who knows?
I agree. She makes it seem like money is more important than their relationship. One day he will be making waaay more than her and how is she going to feel when he asks her to pay her part of their home? How can they share a life if they can’t share their finances? I’m a physician but I met my non-medical field husband when I was a resident. Neither of us have a problem with the discrepancy in our income. Our love and marriage is so much more important. She says it’s because she’s been in a bad financial place before and is finally starting to earn more. Here’s an idea, don’t go on a $6,000 trip (if she’s griping about paying $3K for HIS half, that means her part of the trip is another $3K). Gold digger warning. Bro, if you have any sort of inheritance get a prenup.
Nate, when my husband was in med school, I not only paid for everything, I also cooked/made lunches for him, and read up on all the books about residency/junior doctor life (House of God, This is Going to Hurt, etc.) to better understand, empathize and support his psyche, because I understood how exhausting, draining, and demanding residency is. I loved (and still love) him, and wanted to support him every way I knew how. Im sharing this because I don’t believe I’m an exceptional wife but the contrary, it’s natural to want to support your partner when he’s going through one of the toughest phases in life. It’s what love is.
@@lavendercaitif he is, it doesn’t have anything to do with her and everything to do with him and that’d make him a fool. She sounds like an awesome person.
My wife as an accountant was making 3x my salary as a resident in nyc she paid for most of the expenses and vacations until I graduated and has never even mentioned it.
I’m less than ten minutes in and I’m wondering why she’s so stressed about getting paid back $3k when they’re going to get married. This is a major red flag. My husband and I have been together for 15 years and have alternated in who makes more money, and the fact that she’s this anxious about repayment when her future husband is going to be making much more is an interesting and troubling dynamic. It will be the reverse soon and it’s setting an odd precedent. They’re going to be married, meaning they should be treating their finances as a team, not “he owes me for this now,”especially when he was visiting HER family. Not a good mentality going into a marriage in my opinion.
Okay, I understand a bit more after realizing she has a lot in student loans too. That’s probably weighing on her in the back of her mind. Still, I’d be focused more on both their student loans than the 3k.
Seems like a power dynamic thing. If she can train him she owes him while he's a broke joke, she can sustain her control when she's not the bread winner anymore.
@@DebraJohnsonI hope he uses that same logic when he's got the bazooka dollars and she wants just a little bit for girls night. :) We reap what we sew.
What an incredibly unfair position she's putting him in, in all regards. She's making him go on a trip he can't afford, hounding him to pay her back, increasing his stress about money, not being grateful for the generosity he is offering (by asking for more), and has the audacity to want him to like...grovel and kiss her feet thank you for stuff? What an intolerable human. I hope he has enough self-respect to leave her.
Yup. 100% agree. She expects him to applaud her any time she offers to split the check (not even cover it all, just split). And yet he pays for her often. Doubt he gets that applause when he treats her. Also, he probably spent around 3K at least on her engagement ring. Her constantly asking him to repay her 3K for visiting her family is ridiculous. When is he supposed to save up that money when he’s living paycheck to paycheck and has to pay for her half the time too?
Sadly Nate is sweet and doesn’t know how to firmly educated this miser. I’m sorry but why go on a trip with someone who is nickel and diming you constantly. He doesn’t have to go. Also if he cant afford living there find another place with a better Roomate. This whole this is so ridiculous.
This was my whole marriage. I would say I can't afford the trip. Then I would be built tripped for not being able to afford it after because she wanted it split 50 50. She wanted to make it seem like she's help, but at the end she wanted me responsible for it. She would say oh well it was your choice! After literally pestering me and convincing me to go.
is it? 50% marriages end in divorce. It isn't bizarre. It is obvious they are not all in. They are each others placeholder. This relationship will not last.
Absolutely correct, if he doesn't pay now and get our of her life, ten years later poor guy would end up losing more than half his assets + more than 3k per month on alimony + complete destruction of his self worth and mental health+ his primary years lost on this stupid b$t#&
When my bf and I were in undergrad, he had to take out a student loan of ~6k. I didn't want him to be paying interest, so I paid the 6k and he owed me instead. I said pay me back when you can, because me missing the 6k wasn't stressful, and I didn't want to stress him. 2 years later, he paid me back in full. If you're marrying someone, you should operate as a team. Serena knows she will be easily paid back in a couple of years. The fact that she brings it up weekly is awful. And that the money is to be used to see HER family! Poor Nate, honestly.
That is so kind of you but I would not recommend doing this to other folks unless you're actually married where there is some legal protection. Or at least have a contract. Everyone thinks their partner is a good person but even a usually good person will screw someone over if the relationship fails for any reason.
@@samanthagwynne Yes, I absolutely agree. It was perhaps a bit naive of me at the time, but we'd been dating 4 years at that point, talked about marriage, were on the same varsity team, had the same group of friends, etc., so I felt secure in doing so. It can be about trust and how well you know you partner, but yes, better safe than sorry.
Also the fact that she keeps dragging him out to do things he can’t afford because she wants to doit makes zero sense. She’s unknowingly sabotaging his efforts to be able to pay her back.
If they split the check, she’s treating him??? She didn’t! She’s just paying her half. And at the same time telling him that he should thank her for it. That’s nuts! Did I hear that correctly?
OMG, Right?! Sorry for being so late to this party 😅 but I literally shouted, "Treating him?!" And the fact that she was literally getting anxiety because she had to practice empathy for the poor guy speaks volumes because she's never had to do it before.
@@zafiroshin Around 14:26 she’s talking about when the check comes and they are splitting it, she wants him to “thank her” for paying her half. She also goes on about how he should make kind of a promise that someday he will pay for everything. Crazy!! She is a gold digger and I hope this guy moved on from her after he see this video.
I think you are right. But I understand where she comes from. Women in traditional roles would want to be treated and taken care of. Even though she makes more than him now, she needs the guy’s gesture to show her that he is willing to take care of her. OR, maybe also because she has Asian background. Can’t say for all Asians but mostly in Asian cultures men are expected to treat women most of the times.
yes! and modern feminism brainwashed young girls so hard that she can’t even word it out lmfao women cannot be the main breadwinner, i wish it wasn’t true, but it collapses the relationship. i saw it first hand with my parents. it’s almost like a paradox going on in their heads
@@caiotorres6156absolutely. She knows she's not "supposed" to think that way so she may be afraid to articulate it, or may not even fully realize it, but that's what she's thinking. Although, with them being engaged and her insisting on being paid back, that's weird to me. When my husband and I were engaged, I felt our finances were close to being merged even if they weren't officially. I didn't care who paid for what since it was all our money in my mind.
Then, she needs to be traditional. It irks me when they spout their fake interpretations of equal rights but revert to "the weaker sex" when it suits their warped agendas. "Empowerment" from a safe place isn't real.
That girl needs a therapist to address deeper issues. Just the fact she cuts him off makes me think she is disrespectful in their private life. Nate bro think this 10x through.
As an someone who completed residency 11 years ago, this was rough to watch. I can't imagine if my boyfriend at the time (now husband) asked me to consistently "treat him" or ask to split everything 50/50 when he was making more at the time. Now our financial roles are reversed, and I make a substantial amount more than him. It solidified that I made the perfect choice in my partner because he made my time as a a resident LESS stressful instead of compounding on that stress with hounding me for money. Very glad that she admitted she was wrong but sad that Nate has to go through this as a resident physician. Your work life is already so mentally draining!!
thank you for being a good example of a woman that sticks with her man. studies show that women, once out-earning her partner by about 20%, have a high probability of breaking up or divorcing a partner in the pursuit of "greener pastures". glad to know not all career women are like this in 2023.
@neomonkeyking Stats also show that breadwinning do MORE domestic labour than their partners....any woman who dates a man who doesn't earn at least as much as her is woefully ignorant of what the stats say about her relationship...
My hunch for part two is that there is some deeper reason (that has nothing to do with Nate) for Serena’s intense, nearly compulsive self-preservation instinct, which shows up as “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine”. It seems like a deep protective mechanism that has kept her safe in the past or that she learned growing up. We all make sense in our own way. Ramit, you are always so graceful in threading the needle between holding people to being honest without casting folks in “good/bad” roles. Your ability to be humanizing but hold folks to high standards is rare, and allows the discussion to go to such deep and insightful places! Love to have this on UA-cam now 🤩
That's not it at all. She wants a traditional relationship meaning she wants a guy to take care of her. She wants to be a part of the patriarchy but ONLY when it suits her needs. That's completely fine but she lacks the emotional maturity to say so and Nate doesn't want it like that. He seems to want a genuine partnership. They're incompatible to me and he's going to be a doctor so he'll have an incredible amount of options. Since it's his entire life, he owes it to himself to find the best partner for him. I hope he calls off the wedding because if it's like this now, just wait until there are kids.
I think it makes sense considering her parents were immigrants. I can see that type of mentality being helpful if you start out with nothing in a new country, possibly not even knowing the language. Not sure about her parents actual situation but that mentality have been taught to her by them
But I do also want to congratulate and thank Nate and Serena for their bravery in opening such a vulnerable part of their relationship to the world. This is incredibly difficult for both and I hope the online hate hasn't perpetuated the fear of being open. We are all like this to some extent and it's easy to bark at Serena online, but the reality is she's speaking out about something deep rooted in society. Hats off!
OMG! I'm not even 8 minutes into their story and she is already on my last nerve! He should really reconsider their engagement; Serena is clueless about life as medical student/resident. Sounded like he really did not want to go on that trip to her home country because he did not want to be indebted to her, but she probably hounded him about that trip just like she is now hounding him about repayment. He can't win for losing with her. I'll try to get through rest of this video.
@@ralphmagtibay17 If you have a chance, watch Part 2. Ramit does an excellent job reasoning through her imposed financial inequity on her fiancée. Still find it disturbing how she calls him her "person" not by a term of endearment. She also clings to her pet dog from start to finish on both Parts 1 & 2, even when they do the hug, she just cannot put the damn dog down. Don't know if you watch "Better Batchelor" but he should do a total analysis on this couple, so men will know signs/red flags to avoid.
@@ralphmagtibay17she is NOT a feminist. She’s the problem. That’s why real feminists look bad. She is NOT equal. She does NOT care about her partner. Feminism is about equality, partnership, both sides chipping in. Not just someone taking advantage. Honestly, this is a sad relationship to watch. Her making double, wanting a better lifestyle & dragging him into more debt is disgusting. Its okay to want to be treated, it doesn’t have to be about money tho and he has been already doing it. I hope she realises that its not fair to her partner. We all have had times when we were unreasonable. I come from a family where my dad was the breadwinner. But my mom was a housewife. They don’t have kids yet and she is not resiprocating his generosity in any way. There has to be a balance, not just want person taking.
@@RealisticPlannerI think anyone interested in whatever might be called "real feminism" should just ditch the feminism label. Feminism is beyond dead. It just stands for pitiful narcissistic spoiled young over-educated western woman these days...
She has disposable income precisely BECAUSE she isn’t spending proportionally in her relationship. If she were living alone in this apartment, she’d be paying twice as much in rent, twice as much in utilities, etc etc. It’s baffling how unaware she is of how the only reason she’s thriving is BECAUSE she’s treating him unfairly. I agree with most of the other comments here, I wish they’d talked about the 3k, I wish Ramit would have emphasized how their money should be seen as THEIR money (because she can clearly think “we” when they talk about his earning potential but not about their current situation), I wish they could have discussed maybe how they could just try and live based on the lowest income meaning, instead of him trying to find ways to live up to her spending potential but her being frugal and living closer to what he can afford etc. This was a difficult episode to watch because she overpowered the conversation and he didn’t assert himself, it was just a lot. I appreciate their bravery and thank them for coming in the show for us to learn from this. I wish them all the best and truly hope they reflect deeply about whether or not they think of themselves as a team.
Serena, if you see this, please note that this dynamic is not normal. At one point you asked Ramit if this was normal with other couples. I think Ramit glossed over that question, but this is not normal at all.
Same I appreciate their vulnerability but I’m like girl, chill. Be proud of making what you do and with your partner instead of pinning everything on him. It’s not like he’s some deadbeat throwing their money into crypto. He’s legit doing a lot and idk what more she expects.
O don’t think it would be a prenup to protect her assets - the income levels will be flipped soon and he will be the one who is able to afford a nicer lifestyle. If splitting bills and paying back lent money so important to her, it should be the same when the financial roles are reversed and a prenup would enforce that
As a therapist, Ramit handled this difficult conversation beautifully. Taking care of your partner during a tough season is something I wouldn't have any problem with and would want to do without expectation, just as I would want my partner to take care of me. But I don't think Serena's a bad person and it seems like people are being pretty judgemental in the comments. We're all influenced at a conscious and unconscious level by our values, gender, culture, societal expectations, and our lived experiences and like Ramit says, its so difficult to change your way of thinking when you've never had to do that before. They clearly care about each other and her even being on this podcast shows willingness to do the hard work around identifying her issues and trying to grow in that way. I wish them all the best
Look, I’ve been in Nate’s shoes before. I naively agreed embarked on an endeavor with a trusted friend and roommate as a favor. I at first declined, because I was already struggling financially, and since they admitted they made 3x my income, they agreed to only let me pay a small bit in exchange for my participation. After I signed, they insisted that I pay 50-50 or pay them back the difference later if I paid less than half later. I was left in a year-long, extremely expensive contract, all because I was naive and thought a friend would keep their promise. I went through hell trying to foot this bill! I say all this say I now have no grace for folks who do this kind of buffoonery. People like this are not only disingenuous, but extremely manipulative and intellectually dishonest. I frankly wish them the worst.
I partially disagree with her caring about him because she does not care when she holds such a petty amount of money over his head or forces him to pay half when it doesn't benefit them. She's emotionally attached to him. He's her chew toy, so to speak. She wants the benefits of a traditional relationship but doesn't want to be conventional.
@@jomaryssoto9892 either way, he needs to be with someone who is empathetic and compassionate towards him. He needs to be with a woman who will be there with him even when he has nothing.
Serena had ZERO empathy toward Nate. Wow. This is a crazy episode. I hope they work something out. If not, Nate needs to focus on his residency and find someone who is supportive emotionally.
A lot of women function like that unfortunately. They want to be feminist and independent but still have the old fashioned ways like the husband have to bring money for the home, he should pay for their outings and invite her, he should buy gifts for her often, he should pay half of everything or every bills, etc.. Like we say in France, these women want the butter, the cream and the dairywoman's butt ! 😂 (In English we say to have his cake and eat it I think but French are wild with their sayings 😂)
I was in Nate's position financially with my husband. I was a broke college student and my husband had a full time job. But he was nothing like Serena. He has a generous heart and wanted to take care of me because he loves me and sees us as partners. He never once made me feel indebted to him in any way for all the meals, the nights out, the vacations, because we got to experience it all together. Now I'm able to make a lot more than I was before although I still haven't caught up to him but I do my best to organize our finances in a way that he never has to go without anything he wants. We take care of eachother because we want to. Marriage and long term relationships are a team effort and you have to respect eachother at all stages of life. She doesn't seem to respect him very much
This was golden. These are the hard conversations to have, and most of us don't have the tools and end up ruining a relationship over something that's addressable
The fact she's saying that she doesn't need the money and still keeps nagging him for him to repay her back for the money she lent so she could visit her family!! RED RED FLAG..THE GUY DESERVES MORE THAN A GIRL LIKE THIS
Yes, he needs to run. I can't believe she would put this pressure on him over so little money while he is under stress at work. She is hard to empathize with.
I’m wondering how much he spent on her engagement ring. Most likely it was around 3k or close to it. Does that not count for anything? I really feel like she’s ungrateful for everything he does for her. She keeps saying she wants him to take care of her but does nothing to take care of him.
This has the same yucky feeling as a situation where the women stops working to raise kids and during that time she could be advancing in her career but instead sacrifices for her family only for the man to say .... I bought everything this is my house you didnt pay for it. In life we need to find partners that understand 50/50 doesnt mean the same exact contributions as your spouse at all times.
Just finished watching it and I have some thoughts: Serena is genuinely a nice person, you can see it while she admits her faults and being honest. However, she has a lot of growing up to do. She basically has control of the decisions in the relationship like staying where they’re at now even though they could move somewhere cheaper, going on trips, going out during the week, etc. She is living up to a certain lifestyle she feels she deserves and then dragging Nate along with it while having him pay for more than she does (about equal in rent and picking up the tab over the weekends). She has gaslighted him into believing he’s wrong and Nate is just how I am… he doesn’t want confrontation, arguments, or any of that stuff. He wants peace so what does he do? He lets her take control of the relationship (ask me how I know). So Serena though making twice as much as Nate feels she should still be taken care of, even though Nate is on the journey for greatness and doesn’t have the financial income to support the lifestyle Serena wants. He picks up the tab more often than not and on top of that he surprises her with stuff like gifts or little things because she likes it. But she doesn’t do any of that to Nate even though she can afford it. Nate should have never accepted a loan from her for vacation. If she really wanted to go, she has a decision to make. She either fronts most of that money as a generosity gift or she goes on vacation by herself. Why did Nate decide to still go? Because he doesn’t want to get to the point she feels like she’s not being fulfilled and he really does want to be with her but honestly he really needs to set boundaries and know when to say NO. Otherwise women (in this case Serena) will continue to push new things until it’s too deep, which it is in their case It’s great that there’s a 3rd party (you, the host) to enlighten them on what each of them could improve on without the the feeling of the relationship breaking down. Serena would have never accepted having to pay for more things if it wasn’t for you and that’s why Nate didn’t even try, he knows her very well. Looking forward to the next episode.
Couldn’t agree more with your thoughts here. I think (and hope) this talk was eye opening to Serena about how much additional stress she is adding to Nate’s life (amidst a doctor residency too…yikes) for her unrealistic expectations and double standards around money. And hopefully it was eye opening for Nate that he has a partner that is willing to listen and he’ll continue to communicate his emotions more to avoid getting to a point of resentment.
I agree with what you said here, originally I was going to make a similar comment but you hit on some of the points I was going to make, so I'll just add on. You're right she's making him treat her to things because she wants to feel taken care of, even when the person "her person" (which she mentions a bunch) is suffering because of it. Even now when his income is almost half of hers, and then even when his grows substantially, it's almost like she wants to take advantage of it. Or atleast thats what she's insinuating. As for who "his person" is, he never reciprocates it, and probably because he might not feel the same. I'm not so sure she's a "genuinely nice person" as you mention. To me it sounded like she's borderline extremely selfish. Maybe all the cutesy language she's using is part of her manipulating him to be all, "oh okay I'll just pay for it to avoid arguments and keep the peace". Overall Nate, you have a busy and hard life right now, I hope you're reading some of these comments and noticing the red flags that many of the listeners here have pointed out. Where do you want your life to be in the future both financially and emotionally?
@@alexiahammond5051 I don't think she's lacking an empathy I think that she does rely on feedback though and for whatever reason she's not hearing it as he is saying it. There are people who are used to handling stress by kind of tuning things out that they don't want to hear and they don't really hear it until somebody basically yells at them. It's not them lacking in basic human empathy, it's trying to make uncomfortable things less important so they don't get into fights or give the other person hell, just in this case it's giving the guy hell and he's sending enough signals to sink a battleship he's just not straightforward. For this reason they may not be well matched because he's always going to be afraid of conflict and he's always going to expect these gentle statements to be heard.
Nate, run, dude... this lady will not uphold your vows for better or for worse. When my husband and I were dating, he was not making what he makes now, and he was in debt. I surely wasn't making anything, and there were times that I had to get him gas. He lost his job and moved into my apartment. He is now making triple and takes care of our family. She doesn't deserve you. People make sacrifices for whom they love and see the potential. Good luck!
She’s selfish and a bully. She doesn’t seem to understand the idea of marriage partnership. Actually, it makes me wonder if she’s with him for the money he will make in the future. She doesn’t seem to care about his feelings at all either. He should run. A prenup would reveal her.
Appalled at how selfish Serena is, though at least she was willing to admit it. I felt sorry for Nate being walked all over. Looking forward to see some sort of resolution in the next episode.
@@scarletlady3727 She makes twice his income but still gets treated way more than he does. At 20:00 part of the video, she struggles to even pretend when the roles are reversed. Whats mine is mine and whats yours is ours attitude. The $3k loan is a big red flag for me. I make more than my wife and I would never ask her to pay me back thousands of dollars when we went to see MY family. That's crazy
@@scarletlady3727 she makes way more than him, he’s living paycheck to paycheck. And yet, she feels entitled to have him pay the check most of the time and when she does offer to split she expects an applause. She wants to live a life where she’s traveling and going out all the time and expects him to pay for it even though he can’t afford it and she can. This is the definition of being walked all over and taken advantage of.
@@easyveganfoodieshe's setting the course. If he can pay for most everything when he's broke and struggling, she gets a copy of the bank card when he's rich. He's being trained he is her asset. It's not a relationship, she's a shareholder and he is the product.
I think Nate and Serena would benefit from doing individual and couples therapy. There are a lot of Imbalances in their relationship, double standards, and miscommunications. Some of it seems to stem from anxiety, selfishness and fear of their others reactions. I think their conversation with you is a great starting point. You provide them a forum to discuss openly, but also push both of them to be honest and speak about their feelings. Looking forward to next weeks episode!
Yikes, drama over $3k with your fiancé? His money will be her money when they’re married AND he probably will be earning way more. This is not a great example of team work.
"I am highly logical and intellectual, until its inconvenient for me" what an absolutely delusional leech. Ultimatums and hypocrisy through the roof. Nate, I really hope you find someone better.
I hear her fear of abandonment.. she’s afraid he won’t actually stay with her later. She won’t have egg on her face. In her mind he’s also emasculated in the current position. She can’t visualize the later.
So 1.Serena suggests going on vacation & Nate says he can’t afford it, she offers to pay then nags him about paying her back 2. She wants to go out on weekends and he can’t afford it but she still wants him to foot the Bill 3. She wants to stay in a neighborhood where rent has increased, he can’t afford it but she still wants to split the bill on half 4. When he’s making more than her she’ll expect him to pay more and not half They’re engaged right now and “ in love” . Could gender roles really make people this selfish if you really believe that’s your person??? Make it make sense
Yes!! Also, she keeps saying she wants him to take care of her but I see no signs of her taking care of him. When he explained he feels like he has to grovel for her to split the bill, she immediately made it about how that made her look rather than how he was feeling. She keeps hounding him for the 3K not even seeing how much he spends on her which keeps him from being able to save up his money. Also, he bought her an engagement ring so I’m sure that cost a couple thousand at least.
I wish Ramit would have talked about scarcity vs abundance mindset. When you come from nothing it can be difficult to shift yourself to be giving with your money. Yes, her utter lack of awareness of their situation was difficult to watch but as an immigrant’s daughter I can understand why she is so protective of her money. Like this man is about to make more than triple your income & will be able to fully take care of you in 2 years & you’re worried about 3K. C’mon girl 😅
I doubt she actually cares about scarcity vs. abundance. If that were the case, she wouldn't be taking a trip to Japan. I bet she buys more expensive stuff than you think. Statistically women spend more on average than men.
@@Jake38nineYeah.. and the 1950s would be scared of her gender roles, thats some crazy shit right there. She acts like women aren’t allowed to work and need a man to provide when she in fact makes double his salary. Sorry what?
@jackudark8848 Women want everything. Even when she's making more, she still wants her man to paying for everything. Women wanted Feminism, but they didn't actually want to be fair. They wanted equal rights PLUS the privileges they had before. That's nit how equality works, honey. Grow up.
I don't understand getting engaged with no idea when you are getting married. Then what is the point of getting engaged? Set a date 5 years out if you want but to have no idea is silly.
As someone who grew up in a financially abusive home and watched my Dad take money from my Mom. I 100% understand her anxiety. My Dad's money was Dad's money. My Mom's money was Dad's money. He kept her broke to control her. It was terrible. Having grown up that way I am now in a situation where I also guard my money and am constantly vigilant of anyone trying to take advantage of me because of that trauma. I am so aggressive in stopping myself from ever falling in that same trap my Mom was in, that even though I'm with a wonderful person who I highly doubt would ever take advantage me. I still feel I have to be on guard and protective over what is essentially the only means of escape I would have if my partner ever did turn out to be like my Dad.
Yup. It’s like “thank me for splitting the check but I won’t thank you for every time you paid for me even when you couldn’t afford it.” It’s disgusting. As a woman I find it so disrespectful to treat a man this way.
I thought the comment section might've beeen too harsh on her, but reaching that point (15 min in) is really sad to hear. Why does anyone have to thank the other person for paying their share of a meal?
That's not narcissism or even a narcissistic trait. That's hpyergamy. People use ideas based around narcissistic way too much I situations where it don't even apply.
@@ddavis8988 No, this woman is giving off more red flags than a Chinese Communist parade. She is very selfish, self absorbed, and controlling. Id run and run far from her.
Probably not narcissism but simply a lack of love. If she truly loved him and were a good wife, she would make the sacrifice for him now in return for a beautiful future. But she only sees the “what am I making now”. Can’t see the forest for the trees.. Red flag lady.
@@ddavis8988 this isn't hypergamy... if it was, she would actually be understanding towards her future husband that will be making more than 95% of the people in the country for the next 30+ years, given that he is a Doctor (one of the most successful roles in society) that many woman would be willing to kill Serena for... I believe she is coming from an insecure place and in the back of her mind thinks "He is better than me and could leave me at any moment once he starts making more money, so I'm not going to invest anything into him because what if my fears come true" ... She is unknowingly self sabotaging the relationship... and if he does decided to leave her she's now the "right" one but in reality it likely wouldn't end this way if she didn't have a disingenuous approach to the relationship.
This is so educational about relationships and money. It just shows what type of mindset one should have when talking about money in a committed relationship. Thank you Ramit 👍👍
As a medical doctor now who was painfully in credit card debt, literally living paycheck to paycheck in residency, run. Or have a serious conversation with her. You were open and honest about NOT being able to afford this trip. It’s not fair for her to basically force you (because if you didn’t I’m sure she’d hold it against you) to go see her family, incur this debt (on top of your 200k+ debt) then immediately ask for the money back. GET A PRENUP! She is in no way supporting you financially through theHARDEST part of your journey to becoming a doctor. Why would she deserve half of what you make once you reach the top?
My wife and I of 15 years always try and look at our finances as a team. We have a shared checking account that our income is deposited then is assigned to a bill / budget. We don't argue about who pays what bill or how much I'm paying or you're paying. The question as a couple should never be, "can you treat me, or afford to take me out?" The question should be, "Can WE afford to go out?"
And she knows she's heading for a bug payout with him in a couple years - and she still can't be decent. He needs to find someone better. Level up Nate!
I really appreciate couples coming on here telling their story, being vulnerable, and putting their personal information out there, especially now that they can be seen. I've learned so much listening to all of the episodes (some of them twice). I relate to many of people who come on here and their money scripts, even the ones I don't expect to relate to, like the high earners.
Love having the video option! 10 min in and already annoyed by Serena! She wants him to take an expensive trip which she knows he can't afford, and then when nothing has changed in his financial situation, expects to be paid back. Loved how you flipped the script on on her over the rent. Can't wait for part II!
Love the podcast; I have been listening to the episodes for quite a while now and they give such great insight; highlighting the intersection of money and psychology. As a fellow MD, I want to also really encourage this resident to seriously consider a solid prenup with this partner; despite the cute veneer , she is showing lots of selfishness; an inability to sacrifice a modicum for what she says is « her person », not seeing the long picture; lots of double standards. This does not seem in any way a fair partnership. Please tread carefully
The problem seems pretty simple here..they are not yet married but they are living together and she doesn’t respect the fact that he doesn’t make as much as her..she is still in the mindset that they are roommates (because that’s what they are) so everything should be split evenly. It’s not wrong for her to feel like she wants to be supported by her partner or at least sharing their finances as one. He either needs to move out or they need to hurry up and get married.
There’s definitely two sides. As a female who grew up broke putting money into someone can feel like a risk. There’s a difference between being generous with someone that doesn’t need it and taking care of someone that does. She doesn’t want to be taken advantage of and she is not willing to admit she has trust issues. At the same time she’s trying to toe the line. She’s giving off major gold digger vibes. She’s with him because someday he will make way more money than her. Maybe he will have to pay 6k to take her on vacation or 12k. And if he was asking her once a week when she can pay him back she would probably be offended. Because the whole point of sticking it out with him now is to benefit from his future wealth. Which she kind of gave away already.
I feel like Serena has a lot of Growing up to do. If Nathan is her person, then she should want to take care of home too but instead she has imposed a lot of anxiety and stress around keeping her happy. I hope that they manage to work this out.
21:40 Notice how Serena is admitting this is very hard for her. Her heart is even pounding as she tries to get the words out! I think that’s very courageous. Can you think of a time you believed something but were too afraid to voice it out loud?
This was one of the best episodes yet! Cliff hanger! @Ramit Sethi - You talk about picking the right person to marry - I wonder - Do you ever work with a couple and think "oh they picked wrong?". Or if they are compatible n general are the money differences always able to be overcome? Love your ability to approach situation without personal judgement and still carry a strong opinion.
It’s a real cliffhanger. I admit to being a bit (more than a bit) judgmental on them, particularly Serena’s attitude to the money side of their relationship. I’ll wait for part two with bated breath!
Serena isn’t wrong in her thinking…it’s what she wants BUT Nate has his thoughts they matter equally. Hitting anyone up for anything negative when they walk through the door is unreasonable.🤦♀️ Everyone needs some down time.
@@mamalovesthebeach437 I get where you’re coming from but I don’t think you can say she’s not wrong. This type of thinking in a relationship is wrong. She says she wants him to take care of her, but there’s other ways to take care of someone that doesn’t involve spending money on dinners and drinks. Also, if to her spending money and picking up the check means taking care of someone then isn’t it reasonable for her to also take care of him in the same way? Instead, he has to basically beg her to split the check or pay a little more towards rent. All this keeping in mind that his lower income is temporary and he would definitely be treating her when he’s making 6x more in a few years.
I'm halfway into this talk. I think he should just call a spade a spade. Extremely painful listening to this. Nate is going to be a doctor ... sooner than he thinks. She's a red flag. I've realised that compromise is VERY different to changing a person. If she can't change (and she can't - not rocket science to see this) then relationship not gona change. Nate, brother, in a short few years you going to be balling. Stand your ground.
This is my first time watching your show Ramit, but I’m obsessed with observing the skill you have in getting to the heart of the issues!! The way you laid out your questions & dug in… 🔥 . Will def be watching more.
In my household, we contribute by percentage. We also have a joint account and a separate account. It keeps things simple and feels equal. The contribution also naturally scales up and down with pay.
how awesome would it be if he went "I think we need to take a break while I'm in my residency, once I start working full time as a doctor lets reconsider if we still want to be together." I think he'd be so much happier being single right now. I guarantee once he starts making hundreds of thousands she'll also start seeing his income as her $$ to spend and make plans with.
Wow! Nine minutes in and I'm identifying cultural money attitude from Serena. In my last job I made acquaintance with a woman of "Far East" descent, first generation American, and often she would distress over the differing financial attitudes between her and her fiancee. As for the trip, I didn't catch any statement that Nate agreed to a loan. The statements sounded like Serena chose to ignore Nate's inability to afford the trip and she decided to plan the trip because she wants to bring him to meet her family. If this was the case, Serena should acknowledge that and suck it up. Serena should Pay for the entire trip that she is set on having and treat Nate without any repayment required. I hate when people don't respect that someone tells them that they don't have the financial ability to do something, but then someone else makes plans and reservations that they then expect you to pay for, AND you've already declined the added debt.
Its like that episode of Friends where to celebrate, the majority of friends choose a very expensive restaurant that two cant afford and those two always order the cheapest thing on the menu, cucumber soup, with the others who are more affluent being totally oblivious.
If you truly love and value your partner, you will encourage and support them through their journey (ex:education). Loving couples will back up their partner when things go up and down. Once the relationship starts to become a transaction, then it starts to go downhill.
I don't understand what her problem is. If you date someone who is a medical resident, you go into it knowing that they are overworked, overstressed, and underpaid. She's lording her money over him while also expecting him to treat her all the time? Bizarre.
Dave Ramsey mentioned a rule that you should never break and it states, "Never loan money to your friends and family." If you want to give them money as a gift that is totally fine, but NEVER loan money to your family and friends. Also I understand she wants to be treated to dinner which is fine, but how about go to a dinner place that is cheaper? Or how about go to the grocery store and make dinner for each other? Just a thought.
Amazing episode! Gender roles totally at play. I can't wait for you to release the second part. Thank you, Serena and Nate, for letting us hear and see your conversation!
@TheBlackVelveteen Because why else would she be unreasonable and make him pay for everything when she can pitch in more than enough? Statistically, women make up most of the spending in America, so it only makes sense that she's hogging all her money for herself and her selfish things, while making him slave for her.
This video option has really added a whole new depth to your show. Can’t wait for part two and to continue watching and learning about finances and how to improve relationships!
Did she really start off by saying she lent him money? Her fiance now has a loan from her? To go on a trip to see HER family? Haha sheesh. Immediately, a sign things need to change for this marriage to last the long haul.
I *love* the added dimension of video, but also appreciate the comments here too! Too many times, I've finished listening to an episode and have wanted to talk about it to someone. I would encourage commenters, however, to try to judge less. It takes a lot of courage to appear on Ramit's podcast, and nobody is perfect. We are all learning, and have work and growth to do in regards to our financial traumas, which all present differently!
If I were in Nate's position and the request is for me to visit her family by her wishes and knowing my current financial situation, it would be a no, unless she wants to pay for the trip as gift and not a loan.
What a WILD situation. I can tell they care about each other but she can't let go of that 'I must take care of myself first' role... I got pretty upset when she said how she has 30k invested and can now finally afford to go out and have some fun, whilst simultaneously hounding her future doctor/husband for money that she willingly offered or expecting to be taken care of. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. I really hope that Ramit was able to break through to her, I'd like to see them thrive and not have poor Nate feel so inclined to constantly stressed.
Reminds me of the Betty Broderick story, financially wise. Betty supported her husband Dan, while he became a doctor and a lawyer. Then once the money started rolling in, he left her for someone else and with nothing. It didn’t end well for either of them. She is smart to be cautious.
Being raised up in Asia i just can't process the concept of engaged or married couples "lending" and "paying back" money from/to each other. I know it's normal in the western world but having lived in America for almost 10 years still can't get me used to this.
It’s weird to me, too. My wife & I just SHARED the money while engaged. We never created repayment plans when we needed each other’s money. Superior curious about their backgrounds that led to the debt-to-each-other thing.
As an Indian, it's weird for me too. But also look at the odds things can end in a separation or a divorce. The odds are much higher in the west. So everyone should look after their best interests.
It's not a Western thing, this is what happens when you live in a liberal society that recognizes individuals as the atom of society and not families. Marriage is just a temporary union between individuals, so you have to maintain accounts in case you split down the road.
@@gaurinawathe6856 I think that part of the reason that relationships have a higher likelihood of ending up in a separation or divorce in the West is partially due to increased value placed on individualism. Of course I think that people should try to meet their own best interests, but hyper-individualism within relationships (as displayed within this couple's relationship dynamic) would only serve to make that more true. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
@@jantheman3559 one could also argue that in the West, people can leave unhappy or abusive marriages. They don't have to suffer violence, a cheating spouse or incompatibility as there is no or little social stigma around divorce.
Splitting living costs proportional to gross income is an easy starting place in deciding how to fairly share the cost. But I would argue that perhaps there's an even more fair metric among couples who are financially committed to each other's futures. Nate earns 45k and his living expenses amount to 97% of his income. After all expenses he is able to save $1350. That's how much he can save per year if he doesn't experience any unbudgeted expenses or hardships. If his car breaks down, he may literally be unable to repair it without taking out snowballing credit card debt. If his best friend gets married on the other side of the country, he may not be able to afford the plane ticket, the tux rental, and buy a wedding present. Now consider Serena. She earns $80k and her living expenses are 78% of her income. At the end of the year she is able to save $17,600. At this savings rate, she doesn't have to worry about whether going out for drinks or dinner a few times a month will impact her ability to also cover car repairs while paying down her student loans, or the ability to afford to fly herself and Nate to Asia for vacation. Financially, she has a much larger cushion. So another way to balance the budget between a couple who are financially committed to each other's futures would be to ensure that both have similar discretionary spending power. That means that, together, they would each have almost $19,000 budgeted towards their common savings goals: saving for retirement, buying a house, saving up for a new car, paying off student loans, traveling to Asia, going on vacation, buying furniture, ... And finally, budget some of that money for discretionary spending for each of them that the other doesn't have to (directly) benefit from, like subscriptions, or going out with their own friends, buying toys, etc. Even if that was $1000/person/year, that would leave Nate with substantially more financial freedom, a huge safety net, and less stress, while not substantially impacting Serena's savings goals that aren't also in her best interest (Nate's $1000 discretionary budget, or whatever amount they agree on to live for the present while also responsibly saving for the future).
"a little bit of it is societal, a little bit is selfish". Jeez, lol. She wouldn't be proactive to pay proportionally if she was making 200k and Nate was still making 25k!! On the face of it, Serena has serious emotional problems with money. Nate, my friend, this is a horrible situation.
Ma'am you make 80k. You're not Warren Buffett. Also your dude is gonna make a bajillion dollars in literally 2 years. If you dont pay for that man! I make 6 figures and my bf does not. We just went to Costa rica. I wanted to sit in more expensive seats, but that would have been a stretch for him financially. So we figured it out! I said im not sitting in coach when i don't have to. So i paid for our seats and he paid for our lodging for the trip since it was cheaper. Then he paid for most of our food. Win win! We split large things percentage wise 55/45% or 60/40% and just pay the percentage. Its not fair for him to pay half when i make more.
57:28 “I don’t think I would love it if it were ME” - sums up everything about this episode and Serena that you need to know. She expects better and more from Nate than she gives him. Treat other people how you want to be treated. You can bet that when he is making 300k+ she will not want to be splitting rent 50/50. I agree with another comment that Serena’s entitlement is likely linked to some childhood defense mechanism but it’s manifesting in an awful way and she needs to do some serious work on herself
Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
This felt like an episode right off the Dr. Phil show - at any moment I was expecting you to ask her: How's that working for ya? When his money surpasses hers, he can't help but to treat her like she's treating him. Silly rabbit, trix are for kids. I feel sorry for her
This is financial abuse.
I love the videos with the convo Ramit! And what I also love is how you point out prompts/questions to think about at the beginning of the comment section so people will take a second to pause and think about their reaction (instead of mindlessly comment their hateful reaction as so easily happens on youtube vids)
I would be willing to come on your podcast and share every detail of my financial life. How can I sign up to do that haha? Thanks Ramit for all that you do, Dave C
Hey, do you accept couples from Ghana?
If Nate wants a wife who is going to be supportive and stand by him during hard times, he should find another girl to marry. In real life there are health issues, business failures, law suits, serious accidents… She is holding $3k over him like a loan shark to go see her family. I would have never married my wife if she treated me like this. I’m the bread winner in our family and the money I earn is our money. I trust my wife.
i 100% agree. Id die for a sweet boy to marry (who loves me) and if I would never do what she’s doing.
She is for the streets
I’m a woman and I wouldn’t do that to my husband either. Relationships and marriage aren’t business, nowadays people are making it all seem like business
Yup.
yeah and he could leave her at any time. the trip to asia is a fun trip too. it isn't just a way to see her parents.
This is so bizarre and mind-boggling. If I was earning almost TWICE as much as my partner, and I REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted them to go on a TRANS-CONTINENTAL trip with me to meet my family, and they couldn't afford to go, but I could afford to pay for both of us ... I would just pay for both of us. With no resentment and no expectation to be paid back. This trip was HER choice. I don't see an exhausted medical resident making 45k deciding of his own accord to go to Asia. The trip is something she wants, that he doesn't really have the time or money for. She should have absolutely paid for it and just left it at that. This is kinda crazy. Like I would never DREAM of making the person I love feel like they were being priced out of being in my presence, or priced out of meeting my family.
Yup!! Completely agree. Also they are engaged, he bought her a ring. Probably had to save up for that. And how he has to save up 3K to pay her back for this trip? While living paycheck to paycheck and also treating her all the time because she expects it?
Completely agree with you. Its pretty unreasonable
And let me guess? The ring wasn't less than $1,000 right? SHE probably expected a ring AT LEAST $10,000. That's when you need to dump the woman. NO woman in her right, EQUALITY mindfulness would ever expect their partner to spend more than $1,000 on a ring, unless he is making WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH money to pay for even a year's worth of expenses all in one. If your partner or you or you and your partner can't pay for a year's worth of expenses all in one, forget the damn ring. So much stupid status peer pressure comes from the marriage and ring culture. It's a stupid rock on a piece of metal.@@easyveganfoodie
@@3m4il its pretty painful to watch huh :( he seems like a lovely guy. Struggle so see this being sustainable, seems toxic
No you probably wouldn't date a guy making way less than you
I wish the option of not asking Nate to pay her back had been discussed. They are taking a trip to visit her family that he cannot afford, but she can. Why can’t she be generous here, and thankful that he is coming along despite his busy residency? I’m floored that she is pestering him to pay her back for something he is doing to make her happy, especially given his financial season.
$3k is likely less than her engagement ring... damn girl, just give its as a gift..
I agree. The advantage of the gift is that all the stress of paying back is eliminated.
She's greedy and love money more than him. What will she do when he's making more?
When's he's a doctor making x3/4 as her.... She's will change that song and dance real quick. I'm with you, I find it rather ridiculous
@@daddybgoodwho's to say the stress isn't a valuable and useful tool? The more she can flaunt how stressed and frustrated she is, the more she can manipulate him by avoiding confrontation or training him to blame himself.
I don't think it's intentional, but it is the result of her behaviour.
Even in the role-playing she has to ham it up to 11 to even attempt to offer him some generosity. It's gross honestly.
As a wife married to a resident and engaged while in college and being the one working through our med school journey for the last 10 yrs… this is wilddddd… Nate reconsider your life partner immediately!! You know what you signed up for when your choosing to be a partner/fiancé/wife to a medical student with huge debt. Come onnnn.. I can’t even imagine.. this hurts my soul…
Yes! And even if he doesn’t, I hope he makes a prenup so she only keeps what she made and nothing is split cause she wants exactly that
lol you think this guy is going to stand up and demand a pre nupt? Get real
But wait a minute. They are engaged and his going to be making like 300,000 soon enough. I would 💯 have my fiancés back with bills. Like his studying and clearly needing a bit of support. I was in Nate’s position before. It’s really hard when you earn differently in relationships.
Also his going to see your family, like $3,000 to pay back shouldn’t be a question every week.
As a now doc I appreciate this comment. That grind sucks. You spend most of it poor and barely making it. That she forced this guy into 3k of more debt that he didn’t want is terrible. May as well be 9k.
@@beto6319 exactly, your pursuing your career and we know the medical field takes forever. It’s not like your getting wasted every weekend. Good people should be rewarded not punished. And should feel supported.
Nate: If you're read this. Absolutely get a prenup and don't combine finances when you start making your post-residency income if this is how she's treating you now.
Exactly. I really hope he gets a prenupt. He needs to protect himself because this is all bad.
That couple are cute and have strong future
Prenup is not likely to help much here unfortunately.
The prenup only protects assets you have before marriage but with where they are in the relationship it’s likely they’ll marry and then accumulate assets.
@hockysa Wise and valid statements 👌 I feel as if she is JEALOUS of Nate and emotionally hurting him with her financial woe is me statements. Once he finds a woman who enjoys him, he will be gone with the wind 🏃♂️
Nate get all your assets saved in your moms name. She will sink you fast
Nate deserves better. Run for your life dude.
Crazy part is once he starts making money, she’s going to expect him to cover her part and not pay it back
THIS‼️ 🎯
I wouldn't think so c: seems like she's financially competent, that's kind of what the whole conversation is about. So competent and keeping her money that she literally can't stop asking and it's turning into nagging
100%
Exactly
RUN FOR THE HILLS NATE RUN!!! SHES KOO KOO
As a resident doctor with a fiancé who makes more than me, the way Serena acts towards Nate is interesting considering they are getting married and she knows how much he’s going to make once he’s done with residency. This is a very shifty dynamic and may not work out for them in the long run. Marrying someone in med school or residency is like an investment. It’s tough sometimes but it’s about supporting someone during one of the most difficult career training processes there are until they make it to the end and she doesn’t seem to be very supportive at all
Yeah. What if something happens to him and he can no longer work. Seems like “for better or worse” doesn’t apply to Serena, only Nate
I agree. She is not the right person for him.
I agree. I married a doctor, my first love. I was with him most of his long career. We shared the little money we had and made it work. I stopped being with him for three last years of his Residence because I his life was too stressful and he did not have the time and I wanted to have fun and have a full time bf or just have fun. We met again by accident and we have been together ever since and we want to save more. This lady needs to leave him alone. Being a doctor is not easy. Two options. Be kind and supportive or leave him alone. Those holidays are a money mistake, Nate. If they are meant to be in the future, who knows?
I agree. She makes it seem like money is more important than their relationship. One day he will be making waaay more than her and how is she going to feel when he asks her to pay her part of their home?
How can they share a life if they can’t share their finances?
I’m a physician but I met my non-medical field husband when I was a resident. Neither of us have a problem with the discrepancy in our income. Our love and marriage is so much more important.
She says it’s because she’s been in a bad financial place before and is finally starting to earn more. Here’s an idea, don’t go on a $6,000 trip (if she’s griping about paying $3K for HIS half, that means her part of the trip is another $3K).
Gold digger warning. Bro, if you have any sort of inheritance get a prenup.
I was thinking the same thing. The issue here isn't about money.
Nate, when my husband was in med school, I not only paid for everything, I also cooked/made lunches for him, and read up on all the books about residency/junior doctor life (House of God, This is Going to Hurt, etc.) to better understand, empathize and support his psyche, because I understood how exhausting, draining, and demanding residency is. I loved (and still love) him, and wanted to support him every way I knew how. Im sharing this because I don’t believe I’m an exceptional wife but the contrary, it’s natural to want to support your partner when he’s going through one of the toughest phases in life. It’s what love is.
@@lavendercaitif he is, it doesn’t have anything to do with her and everything to do with him and that’d make him a fool. She sounds like an awesome person.
@@lavendercait I was gonna say your initial comment sounded like projection, but now I'm certain it was 😂
@@errorloadinginformation5429 it’s not just projection. I’m a fairly detached person. It’s more of an observation of human nature.
@@lavendercaitbruh your relationship ain’t gonna last if you’re paranoid your husband would leave if he became successful.
I totally agree with you. You guys make a great team and that’s what partners do for each other 👍
My wife as an accountant was making 3x my salary as a resident in nyc she paid for most of the expenses and vacations until I graduated and has never even mentioned it.
thats normal in a true partnership of loving support.......poor Nate just has a 'future' dollar sign on his forhead.......she doesnt love him now.
The way it should be. You work as a team.
Your wife is great and supportive. Good for you two.👍
I am the breadwinner and pay foe everything (I'm a woman) and I never bring it up to him either. I am a partner - not a loan shark.
I’m less than ten minutes in and I’m wondering why she’s so stressed about getting paid back $3k when they’re going to get married. This is a major red flag. My husband and I have been together for 15 years and have alternated in who makes more money, and the fact that she’s this anxious about repayment when her future husband is going to be making much more is an interesting and troubling dynamic. It will be the reverse soon and it’s setting an odd precedent. They’re going to be married, meaning they should be treating their finances as a team, not “he owes me for this now,”especially when he was visiting HER family. Not a good mentality going into a marriage in my opinion.
Okay, I understand a bit more after realizing she has a lot in student loans too. That’s probably weighing on her in the back of her mind. Still, I’d be focused more on both their student loans than the 3k.
If she is that worried about her student loans, she shouldn’t be taking trips or going out to dinner.
@@smittymike19 She can afford it for herself just fine, it’s the paying for her man that’s stressful.
Seems like a power dynamic thing. If she can train him she owes him while he's a broke joke, she can sustain her control when she's not the bread winner anymore.
@@DebraJohnsonI hope he uses that same logic when he's got the bazooka dollars and she wants just a little bit for girls night. :)
We reap what we sew.
What an incredibly unfair position she's putting him in, in all regards. She's making him go on a trip he can't afford, hounding him to pay her back, increasing his stress about money, not being grateful for the generosity he is offering (by asking for more), and has the audacity to want him to like...grovel and kiss her feet thank you for stuff? What an intolerable human. I hope he has enough self-respect to leave her.
Yup. 100% agree. She expects him to applaud her any time she offers to split the check (not even cover it all, just split). And yet he pays for her often. Doubt he gets that applause when he treats her. Also, he probably spent around 3K at least on her engagement ring. Her constantly asking him to repay her 3K for visiting her family is ridiculous. When is he supposed to save up that money when he’s living paycheck to paycheck and has to pay for her half the time too?
Sadly Nate is sweet and doesn’t know how to firmly educated this miser. I’m sorry but why go on a trip with someone who is nickel and diming you constantly. He doesn’t have to go. Also if he cant afford living there find another place with a better Roomate. This whole this is so ridiculous.
This was my whole marriage. I would say I can't afford the trip. Then I would be built tripped for not being able to afford it after because she wanted it split 50 50. She wanted to make it seem like she's help, but at the end she wanted me responsible for it. She would say oh well it was your choice! After literally pestering me and convincing me to go.
Yup, she sucks.
Her lack of natural generosity and empathy towards the man she supposedly loves and is engaged to is bizarre.
“No groveling allowed” ??!?
W😳w.
Leave her azzz!!
is it? 50% marriages end in divorce. It isn't bizarre. It is obvious they are not all in. They are each others placeholder. This relationship will not last.
@@CaptainPlanet007 she would be fine, she can afford her own☺
@@phiakate5921 Not the point, tho.
Him paying her back the $3,000 would be way cheaper than a divorce many years down the road.
He should pay her the 3k, and then bye bye
Oof! Good point
@@levimachado id say bye bye then pay her back hahaha
I can't believe she even said she LENT him money for this trip SHE WANTS!!! WTH!!! Be considerate 🤦🏾
#S E L F I S H
Absolutely correct, if he doesn't pay now and get our of her life, ten years later poor guy would end up losing more than half his assets + more than 3k per month on alimony + complete destruction of his self worth and mental health+ his primary years lost on this stupid b$t#&
Nate I’m praying for you bro. You know what you need to do 💪🏽
😂😂😂
This man should run he is waaay more valuable financially in the long run and doesn’t deserve this
He can do much better on every level. And he's also good looking in top of all that. He should run.
When my bf and I were in undergrad, he had to take out a student loan of ~6k. I didn't want him to be paying interest, so I paid the 6k and he owed me instead. I said pay me back when you can, because me missing the 6k wasn't stressful, and I didn't want to stress him. 2 years later, he paid me back in full. If you're marrying someone, you should operate as a team. Serena knows she will be easily paid back in a couple of years. The fact that she brings it up weekly is awful. And that the money is to be used to see HER family! Poor Nate, honestly.
That is so kind of you but I would not recommend doing this to other folks unless you're actually married where there is some legal protection. Or at least have a contract. Everyone thinks their partner is a good person but even a usually good person will screw someone over if the relationship fails for any reason.
I paid for my spous' education and I do not expect to be paid back. We are building a future TOGETHER.
@@samanthagwynne Yes, I absolutely agree. It was perhaps a bit naive of me at the time, but we'd been dating 4 years at that point, talked about marriage, were on the same varsity team, had the same group of friends, etc., so I felt secure in doing so. It can be about trust and how well you know you partner, but yes, better safe than sorry.
They are not ready to marry. Please don’t make the mistake. Just wait a bit longer.
Also the fact that she keeps dragging him out to do things he can’t afford because she wants to doit makes zero sense. She’s unknowingly sabotaging his efforts to be able to pay her back.
If they split the check, she’s treating him??? She didn’t! She’s just paying her half. And at the same time telling him that he should thank her for it. That’s nuts! Did I hear that correctly?
I’m about to watch this but this sounds so NPD
Exactly what I thought!!! What the actual fuck
OMG, Right?! Sorry for being so late to this party 😅 but I literally shouted, "Treating him?!"
And the fact that she was literally getting anxiety because she had to practice empathy for the poor guy speaks volumes because she's never had to do it before.
When does she say this?
@@zafiroshin Around 14:26 she’s talking about when the check comes and they are splitting it, she wants him to “thank her” for paying her half. She also goes on about how he should make kind of a promise that someday he will pay for everything. Crazy!! She is a gold digger and I hope this guy moved on from her after he see this video.
She was skating around the real issue: As a woman she feels like he should be paying. Point blank period.
She wants a traditional relationship.
I think you are right. But I understand where she comes from. Women in traditional roles would want to be treated and taken care of. Even though she makes more than him now, she needs the guy’s gesture to show her that he is willing to take care of her. OR, maybe also because she has Asian background. Can’t say for all Asians but mostly in Asian cultures men are expected to treat women most of the times.
yes! and modern feminism brainwashed young girls so hard that she can’t even word it out lmfao women cannot be the main breadwinner, i wish it wasn’t true, but it collapses the relationship. i saw it first hand with my parents. it’s almost like a paradox going on in their heads
@@caiotorres6156absolutely. She knows she's not "supposed" to think that way so she may be afraid to articulate it, or may not even fully realize it, but that's what she's thinking. Although, with them being engaged and her insisting on being paid back, that's weird to me. When my husband and I were engaged, I felt our finances were close to being merged even if they weren't officially. I didn't care who paid for what since it was all our money in my mind.
Then, she needs to be traditional. It irks me when they spout their fake interpretations of equal rights but revert to "the weaker sex" when it suits their warped agendas. "Empowerment" from a safe place isn't real.
That girl needs a therapist to address deeper issues. Just the fact she cuts him off makes me think she is disrespectful in their private life. Nate bro think this 10x through.
He said he could not afford the vacation, she persisted. She should pay.
As an someone who completed residency 11 years ago, this was rough to watch. I can't imagine if my boyfriend at the time (now husband) asked me to consistently "treat him" or ask to split everything 50/50 when he was making more at the time. Now our financial roles are reversed, and I make a substantial amount more than him. It solidified that I made the perfect choice in my partner because he made my time as a a resident LESS stressful instead of compounding on that stress with hounding me for money. Very glad that she admitted she was wrong but sad that Nate has to go through this as a resident physician. Your work life is already so mentally draining!!
thank you for being a good example of a woman that sticks with her man. studies show that women, once out-earning her partner by about 20%, have a high probability of breaking up or divorcing a partner in the pursuit of "greener pastures". glad to know not all career women are like this in 2023.
@neomonkeyking Stats also show that breadwinning do MORE domestic labour than their partners....any woman who dates a man who doesn't earn at least as much as her is woefully ignorant of what the stats say about her relationship...
My hunch for part two is that there is some deeper reason (that has nothing to do with Nate) for Serena’s intense, nearly compulsive self-preservation instinct, which shows up as “what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is mine”. It seems like a deep protective mechanism that has kept her safe in the past or that she learned growing up. We all make sense in our own way.
Ramit, you are always so graceful in threading the needle between holding people to being honest without casting folks in “good/bad” roles. Your ability to be humanizing but hold folks to high standards is rare, and allows the discussion to go to such deep and insightful places! Love to have this on UA-cam now 🤩
That's not it at all. She wants a traditional relationship meaning she wants a guy to take care of her. She wants to be a part of the patriarchy but ONLY when it suits her needs. That's completely fine but she lacks the emotional maturity to say so and Nate doesn't want it like that. He seems to want a genuine partnership. They're incompatible to me and he's going to be a doctor so he'll have an incredible amount of options. Since it's his entire life, he owes it to himself to find the best partner for him. I hope he calls off the wedding because if it's like this now, just wait until there are kids.
@@slouischarlesYT definitely it’s not healthy the way it is now, he can do better
I think it makes sense considering her parents were immigrants. I can see that type of mentality being helpful if you start out with nothing in a new country, possibly not even knowing the language. Not sure about her parents actual situation but that mentality have been taught to her by them
@@amde8554it’s a huge red flag. Nate run as fast as you can.
Well said. Ramit is the only person I think I would feel comfortable with speaking publicly w spouse about these delicate issues.
But I do also want to congratulate and thank Nate and Serena for their bravery in opening such a vulnerable part of their relationship to the world. This is incredibly difficult for both and I hope the online hate hasn't perpetuated the fear of being open.
We are all like this to some extent and it's easy to bark at Serena online, but the reality is she's speaking out about something deep rooted in society. Hats off!
He’s really respectful for her and she is not to him. Drop her bro
It is weird to hear that she “ lent “ her fiancé 3k to visit HER FAMILY!!!!!…she is the one that forced him to go when he said he couldn’t afford it….
Bingo
OMG! I'm not even 8 minutes into their story and she is already on my last nerve! He should really reconsider their engagement; Serena is clueless about life as medical student/resident. Sounded like he really did not want to go on that trip to her home country because he did not want to be indebted to her, but she probably hounded him about that trip just like she is now hounding him about repayment. He can't win for losing with her. I'll try to get through rest of this video.
I am already seeing the divorce in the future if he married her.
@@ralphmagtibay17 If you have a chance, watch Part 2. Ramit does an excellent job reasoning through her imposed financial inequity on her fiancée. Still find it disturbing how she calls him her "person" not by a term of endearment. She also clings to her pet dog from start to finish on both Parts 1 & 2, even when they do the hug, she just cannot put the damn dog down.
Don't know if you watch "Better Batchelor" but he should do a total analysis on this couple, so men will know signs/red flags to avoid.
@@jeromehenry4484 she is definitely a feminist. I can't stand this interview and I stopped midway. 😅
@@ralphmagtibay17she is NOT a feminist. She’s the problem. That’s why real feminists look bad. She is NOT equal. She does NOT care about her partner. Feminism is about equality, partnership, both sides chipping in. Not just someone taking advantage. Honestly, this is a sad relationship to watch. Her making double, wanting a better lifestyle & dragging him into more debt is disgusting. Its okay to want to be treated, it doesn’t have to be about money tho and he has been already doing it. I hope she realises that its not fair to her partner. We all have had times when we were unreasonable. I come from a family where my dad was the breadwinner. But my mom was a housewife. They don’t have kids yet and she is not resiprocating his generosity in any way. There has to be a balance, not just want person taking.
@@RealisticPlannerI think anyone interested in whatever might be called "real feminism" should just ditch the feminism label. Feminism is beyond dead. It just stands for pitiful narcissistic spoiled young over-educated western woman these days...
I can’t wait to hear her opinion once the income is flipped. The suspense for part 2 is killing me.
Dude better be writing down what she’s been saying to him now so he can do and say the exact same thing to her when he’s a full time doctor.
Same!
It will be excuses and gaslighting bro. She will not keep the same energy when on the other end of the stick.
Who cares what her opinion is. He needs to dump her.
Her opinion is already that he should pay for most things, even while he makes half what she does!
She has disposable income precisely BECAUSE she isn’t spending proportionally in her relationship. If she were living alone in this apartment, she’d be paying twice as much in rent, twice as much in utilities, etc etc. It’s baffling how unaware she is of how the only reason she’s thriving is BECAUSE she’s treating him unfairly. I agree with most of the other comments here, I wish they’d talked about the 3k, I wish Ramit would have emphasized how their money should be seen as THEIR money (because she can clearly think “we” when they talk about his earning potential but not about their current situation), I wish they could have discussed maybe how they could just try and live based on the lowest income meaning, instead of him trying to find ways to live up to her spending potential but her being frugal and living closer to what he can afford etc. This was a difficult episode to watch because she overpowered the conversation and he didn’t assert himself, it was just a lot. I appreciate their bravery and thank them for coming in the show for us to learn from this. I wish them all the best and truly hope they reflect deeply about whether or not they think of themselves as a team.
Serena, if you see this, please note that this dynamic is not normal. At one point you asked Ramit if this was normal with other couples. I think Ramit glossed over that question, but this is not normal at all.
Serena, mad respect for being honest but damn I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t shaking my head a couple of times throughout this podcast, lol
I was shaking my head from start to end.
Secondhand cringe
Same I appreciate their vulnerability but I’m like girl, chill. Be proud of making what you do and with your partner instead of pinning everything on him. It’s not like he’s some deadbeat throwing their money into crypto. He’s legit doing a lot and idk what more she expects.
I really hope part 2 covers setting up a prenup.
80k is not a lot in NYC … I would
do a pre nup
😂 agreed
O don’t think it would be a prenup to protect her assets - the income levels will be flipped soon and he will be the one who is able to afford a nicer lifestyle. If splitting bills and paying back lent money so important to her, it should be the same when the financial roles are reversed and a prenup would enforce that
Nate should make a prenuptial💯
Where is part 2
As a therapist, Ramit handled this difficult conversation beautifully. Taking care of your partner during a tough season is something I wouldn't have any problem with and would want to do without expectation, just as I would want my partner to take care of me. But I don't think Serena's a bad person and it seems like people are being pretty judgemental in the comments. We're all influenced at a conscious and unconscious level by our values, gender, culture, societal expectations, and our lived experiences and like Ramit says, its so difficult to change your way of thinking when you've never had to do that before. They clearly care about each other and her even being on this podcast shows willingness to do the hard work around identifying her issues and trying to grow in that way. I wish them all the best
if she doesnt change you know damn well this will be a disaster lol. but yeah, you are right
Look, I’ve been in Nate’s shoes before. I naively agreed embarked on an endeavor with a trusted friend and roommate as a favor. I at first declined, because I was already struggling financially, and since they admitted they made 3x my income, they agreed to only let me pay a small bit in exchange for my participation. After I signed, they insisted that I pay 50-50 or pay them back the difference later if I paid less than half later. I was left in a year-long, extremely expensive contract, all because I was naive and thought a friend would keep their promise. I went through hell trying to foot this bill!
I say all this say I now have no grace for folks who do this kind of buffoonery. People like this are not only disingenuous, but extremely manipulative and intellectually dishonest. I frankly wish them the worst.
I feel that she wants to be on the show because she wants to approve it to Nate that she is right.
she is territorial with her money..i think it comes from deeper reason shes not saying.
I partially disagree with her caring about him because she does not care when she holds such a petty amount of money over his head or forces him to pay half when it doesn't benefit them. She's emotionally attached to him. He's her chew toy, so to speak. She wants the benefits of a traditional relationship but doesn't want to be conventional.
"Her money is her money. His money is their money."
this was insane to me, he’s going to make a ton of money in literally 2 years. the impatience on her end is BIZARRE
There’s no guarantee of that. He could not pass his boards and he still has student loans to pay.
@@jomaryssoto9892 either way, he needs to be with someone who is empathetic and compassionate towards him. He needs to be with a woman who will be there with him even when he has nothing.
This guy is blessed with a preview on his marriage/divorce... take heed!!!
@@jomaryssoto9892 He is a resident he already passed his boards...
The illogical nature of her behavior points to emotional scarring/undertones that are driving this behavior.. saying she's selfish is a shallow POV
Serena had ZERO empathy toward Nate. Wow. This is a crazy episode. I hope they work something out. If not, Nate needs to focus on his residency and find someone who is supportive emotionally.
Her money is her money and his money is their money. Poor guy should leave ASAP.
A lot of women function like that unfortunately. They want to be feminist and independent but still have the old fashioned ways like the husband have to bring money for the home, he should pay for their outings and invite her, he should buy gifts for her often, he should pay half of everything or every bills, etc.. Like we say in France, these women want the butter, the cream and the dairywoman's butt ! 😂 (In English we say to have his cake and eat it I think but French are wild with their sayings 😂)
I was in Nate's position financially with my husband. I was a broke college student and my husband had a full time job. But he was nothing like Serena. He has a generous heart and wanted to take care of me because he loves me and sees us as partners. He never once made me feel indebted to him in any way for all the meals, the nights out, the vacations, because we got to experience it all together. Now I'm able to make a lot more than I was before although I still haven't caught up to him but I do my best to organize our finances in a way that he never has to go without anything he wants. We take care of eachother because we want to. Marriage and long term relationships are a team effort and you have to respect eachother at all stages of life. She doesn't seem to respect him very much
I had the same arrangement with my husband. It's a true partnership to be able to help your partner out when they need it. I'm glad you have that.
This was golden. These are the hard conversations to have, and most of us don't have the tools and end up ruining a relationship over something that's addressable
The fact she's saying that she doesn't need the money and still keeps nagging him for him to repay her back for the money she lent so she could visit her family!! RED RED FLAG..THE GUY DESERVES MORE THAN A GIRL LIKE THIS
She’s keeping his balls in her purse, dude can barely afford the increased rent but decided to stay because she doesn’t want to move.
fax
Yes, he needs to run. I can't believe she would put this pressure on him over so little money while he is under stress at work. She is hard to empathize with.
I’m wondering how much he spent on her engagement ring. Most likely it was around 3k or close to it. Does that not count for anything? I really feel like she’s ungrateful for everything he does for her. She keeps saying she wants him to take care of her but does nothing to take care of him.
This has the same yucky feeling as a situation where the women stops working to raise kids and during that time she could be advancing in her career but instead sacrifices for her family only for the man to say .... I bought everything this is my house you didnt pay for it.
In life we need to find partners that understand 50/50 doesnt mean the same exact contributions as your spouse at all times.
So true! 50/50 is not about dollar total. It’s about total work, effort and love both partners put into the family.
Just finished watching it and I have some thoughts:
Serena is genuinely a nice person, you can see it while she admits her faults and being honest. However, she has a lot of growing up to do. She basically has control of the decisions in the relationship like staying where they’re at now even though they could move somewhere cheaper, going on trips, going out during the week, etc. She is living up to a certain lifestyle she feels she deserves and then dragging Nate along with it while having him pay for more than she does (about equal in rent and picking up the tab over the weekends). She has gaslighted him into believing he’s wrong and Nate is just how I am… he doesn’t want confrontation, arguments, or any of that stuff. He wants peace so what does he do? He lets her take control of the relationship (ask me how I know).
So Serena though making twice as much as Nate feels she should still be taken care of, even though Nate is on the journey for greatness and doesn’t have the financial income to support the lifestyle Serena wants. He picks up the tab more often than not and on top of that he surprises her with stuff like gifts or little things because she likes it. But she doesn’t do any of that to Nate even though she can afford it.
Nate should have never accepted a loan from her for vacation. If she really wanted to go, she has a decision to make. She either fronts most of that money as a generosity gift or she goes on vacation by herself. Why did Nate decide to still go? Because he doesn’t want to get to the point she feels like she’s not being fulfilled and he really does want to be with her but honestly he really needs to set boundaries and know when to say NO. Otherwise women (in this case Serena) will continue to push new things until it’s too deep, which it is in their case
It’s great that there’s a 3rd party (you, the host) to enlighten them on what each of them could improve on without the the feeling of the relationship breaking down. Serena would have never accepted having to pay for more things if it wasn’t for you and that’s why Nate didn’t even try, he knows her very well.
Looking forward to the next episode.
Couldn’t agree more with your thoughts here.
I think (and hope) this talk was eye opening to Serena about how much additional stress she is adding to Nate’s life (amidst a doctor residency too…yikes) for her unrealistic expectations and double standards around money.
And hopefully it was eye opening for Nate that he has a partner that is willing to listen and he’ll continue to communicate his emotions more to avoid getting to a point of resentment.
I agree with what you said here, originally I was going to make a similar comment but you hit on some of the points I was going to make, so I'll just add on.
You're right she's making him treat her to things because she wants to feel taken care of, even when the person "her person" (which she mentions a bunch) is suffering because of it. Even now when his income is almost half of hers, and then even when his grows substantially, it's almost like she wants to take advantage of it. Or atleast thats what she's insinuating. As for who "his person" is, he never reciprocates it, and probably because he might not feel the same.
I'm not so sure she's a "genuinely nice person" as you mention. To me it sounded like she's borderline extremely selfish. Maybe all the cutesy language she's using is part of her manipulating him to be all, "oh okay I'll just pay for it to avoid arguments and keep the peace".
Overall Nate, you have a busy and hard life right now, I hope you're reading some of these comments and noticing the red flags that many of the listeners here have pointed out. Where do you want your life to be in the future both financially and emotionally?
Well said! That vacation loan tripped me up!!!
I’m just going to come right out and say it. Nate is a door mat and Serena lacks basic human empathy.
@@alexiahammond5051 I don't think she's lacking an empathy I think that she does rely on feedback though and for whatever reason she's not hearing it as he is saying it. There are people who are used to handling stress by kind of tuning things out that they don't want to hear and they don't really hear it until somebody basically yells at them. It's not them lacking in basic human empathy, it's trying to make uncomfortable things less important so they don't get into fights or give the other person hell, just in this case it's giving the guy hell and he's sending enough signals to sink a battleship he's just not straightforward. For this reason they may not be well matched because he's always going to be afraid of conflict and he's always going to expect these gentle statements to be heard.
This is excellent topic. it's not only financial conversation but kind of relationship therapy! Thank you
Nate, run, dude... this lady will not uphold your vows for better or for worse. When my husband and I were dating, he was not making what he makes now, and he was in debt. I surely wasn't making anything, and there were times that I had to get him gas. He lost his job and moved into my apartment. He is now making triple and takes care of our family. She doesn't deserve you. People make sacrifices for whom they love and see the potential. Good luck!
She’s selfish and a bully. She doesn’t seem to understand the idea of marriage partnership. Actually, it makes me wonder if she’s with him for the money he will make in the future. She doesn’t seem to care about his feelings at all either. He should run. A prenup would reveal her.
Appalled at how selfish Serena is, though at least she was willing to admit it. I felt sorry for Nate being walked all over. Looking forward to see some sort of resolution in the next episode.
How is he being walked all over?
@@scarletlady3727 She makes twice his income but still gets treated way more than he does. At 20:00 part of the video, she struggles to even pretend when the roles are reversed. Whats mine is mine and whats yours is ours attitude.
The $3k loan is a big red flag for me. I make more than my wife and I would never ask her to pay me back thousands of dollars when we went to see MY family. That's crazy
@@sampritchett8381 I agree especially when he’d already said he couldn’t afford the trip and she offered .
@@scarletlady3727 she makes way more than him, he’s living paycheck to paycheck. And yet, she feels entitled to have him pay the check most of the time and when she does offer to split she expects an applause. She wants to live a life where she’s traveling and going out all the time and expects him to pay for it even though he can’t afford it and she can. This is the definition of being walked all over and taken advantage of.
@@easyveganfoodieshe's setting the course. If he can pay for most everything when he's broke and struggling, she gets a copy of the bank card when he's rich.
He's being trained he is her asset. It's not a relationship, she's a shareholder and he is the product.
I think Nate and Serena would benefit from doing individual and couples therapy. There are a lot of Imbalances in their relationship, double standards, and miscommunications. Some of it seems to stem from anxiety, selfishness and fear of their others reactions. I think their conversation with you is a great starting point. You provide them a forum to discuss openly, but also push both of them to be honest and speak about their feelings.
Looking forward to next weeks episode!
Very true
I can't finish this video, this woman is so immature it is painful to watch. I hope he can identify the issue and move on
Yikes, drama over $3k with your fiancé? His money will be her money when they’re married AND he probably will be earning way more. This is not a great example of team work.
"I am highly logical and intellectual, until its inconvenient for me" what an absolutely delusional leech. Ultimatums and hypocrisy through the roof. Nate, I really hope you find someone better.
Wow, the video adds a whole new dynamic to this show. Props to the couples who have the courage to do this!
Big props to the IWT team for making these video episodes possible
I hear her fear of abandonment.. she’s afraid he won’t actually stay with her later. She won’t have egg on her face. In her mind he’s also emasculated in the current position. She can’t visualize the later.
So 1.Serena suggests going on vacation & Nate says he can’t afford it, she offers to pay then nags him about paying her back
2. She wants to go out on weekends and he can’t afford it but she still wants him to foot the Bill
3. She wants to stay in a neighborhood where rent has increased, he can’t afford it but she still wants to split the bill on half
4. When he’s making more than her she’ll expect him to pay more and not half
They’re engaged right now and “ in love” . Could gender roles really make people this selfish if you really believe that’s your person??? Make it make sense
Yes!! Also, she keeps saying she wants him to take care of her but I see no signs of her taking care of him. When he explained he feels like he has to grovel for her to split the bill, she immediately made it about how that made her look rather than how he was feeling.
She keeps hounding him for the 3K not even seeing how much he spends on her which keeps him from being able to save up his money. Also, he bought her an engagement ring so I’m sure that cost a couple thousand at least.
I wish Ramit would have talked about scarcity vs abundance mindset. When you come from nothing it can be difficult to shift yourself to be giving with your money. Yes, her utter lack of awareness of their situation was difficult to watch but as an immigrant’s daughter I can understand why she is so protective of her money. Like this man is about to make more than triple your income & will be able to fully take care of you in 2 years & you’re worried about 3K. C’mon girl 😅
Gtfo with that scarcity bullshit, she needs to be dumped ASAP and I hope sethi would have given that advice
I doubt she actually cares about scarcity vs. abundance. If that were the case, she wouldn't be taking a trip to Japan. I bet she buys more expensive stuff than you think. Statistically women spend more on average than men.
@@Jake38nineYeah.. and the 1950s would be scared of her gender roles, thats some crazy shit right there. She acts like women aren’t allowed to work and need a man to provide when she in fact makes double his salary. Sorry what?
@jackudark8848 Women want everything. Even when she's making more, she still wants her man to paying for everything. Women wanted Feminism, but they didn't actually want to be fair. They wanted equal rights PLUS the privileges they had before. That's nit how equality works, honey. Grow up.
They have been engaged for 7 years, that's all I needed to hear to know the relationship is doomed.
And also why she doesn’t trust him and worried he won’t pay her back.
This is highly possible. She may be afraid they may never actually marry. Seven years is too long.
I don't understand getting engaged with no idea when you are getting married. Then what is the point of getting engaged? Set a date 5 years out if you want but to have no idea is silly.
@@karissakline6765why does he even need to pay her back? She pressured him to go on some trip he said he couldn’t afford.
He's waiting to become a doctor. Her ass is gone.
As someone who grew up in a financially abusive home and watched my Dad take money from my Mom. I 100% understand her anxiety.
My Dad's money was Dad's money. My Mom's money was Dad's money. He kept her broke to control her. It was terrible. Having grown up that way I am now in a situation where I also guard my money and am constantly vigilant of anyone trying to take advantage of me because of that trauma. I am so aggressive in stopping myself from ever falling in that same trap my Mom was in, that even though I'm with a wonderful person who I highly doubt would ever take advantage me. I still feel I have to be on guard and protective over what is essentially the only means of escape I would have if my partner ever did turn out to be like my Dad.
She wants to be thanked for splitting the check. Poor man.
Yup. It’s like “thank me for splitting the check but I won’t thank you for every time you paid for me even when you couldn’t afford it.” It’s disgusting. As a woman I find it so disrespectful to treat a man this way.
I thought the comment section might've beeen too harsh on her, but reaching that point (15 min in) is really sad to hear. Why does anyone have to thank the other person for paying their share of a meal?
And then she goes on about how she can't pay because she has bills to pay. Well so does he, ma'am. Maybe you should stop dining out.
Her issue with money aside….the fact that she nagged him the moment he got home after a long day is such a HUGE flag of her narcissistic mentality
That's not narcissism or even a narcissistic trait.
That's hpyergamy. People use ideas based around narcissistic way too much I situations where it don't even apply.
@@ddavis8988 No, this woman is giving off more red flags than a Chinese Communist parade. She is very selfish, self absorbed, and controlling. Id run and run far from her.
Probably not narcissism but simply a lack of love. If she truly loved him and were a good wife, she would make the sacrifice for him now in return for a beautiful future. But she only sees the “what am I making now”. Can’t see the forest for the trees.. Red flag lady.
RUN NATE RUN
@@ddavis8988 this isn't hypergamy... if it was, she would actually be understanding towards her future husband that will be making more than 95% of the people in the country for the next 30+ years, given that he is a Doctor (one of the most successful roles in society) that many woman would be willing to kill Serena for...
I believe she is coming from an insecure place and in the back of her mind thinks "He is better than me and could leave me at any moment once he starts making more money, so I'm not going to invest anything into him because what if my fears come true" ... She is unknowingly self sabotaging the relationship... and if he does decided to leave her she's now the "right" one but in reality it likely wouldn't end this way if she didn't have a disingenuous approach to the relationship.
Serena is a case study in completely and affirmatively ignoring everything about her partner.
This is so educational about relationships and money. It just shows what type of mindset one should have when talking about money in a committed relationship. Thank you Ramit 👍👍
As a medical doctor now who was painfully in credit card debt, literally living paycheck to paycheck in residency, run. Or have a serious conversation with her. You were open and honest about NOT being able to afford this trip. It’s not fair for her to basically force you (because if you didn’t I’m sure she’d hold it against you) to go see her family, incur this debt (on top of your 200k+ debt) then immediately ask for the money back.
GET A PRENUP! She is in no way supporting you financially through theHARDEST part of your journey to becoming a doctor. Why would she deserve half of what you make once you reach the top?
He can do far better (on every level).
This will be a disaster if they follow through with marriage, she doesn't respect him
My wife and I of 15 years always try and look at our finances as a team. We have a shared checking account that our income is deposited then is assigned to a bill / budget. We don't argue about who pays what bill or how much I'm paying or you're paying. The question as a couple should never be, "can you treat me, or afford to take me out?" The question should be, "Can WE afford to go out?"
This!!!!!🎯
I really hope she watches this back and learns about herself and how to be a supportive partner. Please we’ll need an update!
you are such a therapist, Ramit, you are good!
I just don't understand. If she loves him, why wouldn't she just pay for stuff? Treat him, take him out. Poor Nate.
And she knows she's heading for a bug payout with him in a couple years - and she still can't be decent. He needs to find someone better. Level up Nate!
I really appreciate couples coming on here telling their story, being vulnerable, and putting their personal information out there, especially now that they can be seen. I've learned so much listening to all of the episodes (some of them twice). I relate to many of people who come on here and their money scripts, even the ones I don't expect to relate to, like the high earners.
🙌It takes so much courage to ask for help. And even more courage to share your income, debt, and most of all, your beliefs about money
Love having the video option! 10 min in and already annoyed by Serena! She wants him to take an expensive trip which she knows he can't afford, and then when nothing has changed in his financial situation, expects to be paid back. Loved how you flipped the script on on her over the rent. Can't wait for part II!
Love the podcast; I have been listening to the episodes for quite a while now and they give such great insight; highlighting the intersection of money and psychology.
As a fellow MD, I want to also really encourage this resident to seriously consider a solid prenup with this partner; despite the cute veneer , she is showing lots of selfishness; an inability to sacrifice a modicum for what she says is « her person », not seeing the long picture; lots of double standards. This does not seem in any way a fair partnership. Please tread carefully
The problem seems pretty simple here..they are not yet married but they are living together and she doesn’t respect the fact that he doesn’t make as much as her..she is still in the mindset that they are roommates (because that’s what they are) so everything should be split evenly. It’s not wrong for her to feel like she wants to be supported by her partner or at least sharing their finances as one. He either needs to move out or they need to hurry up and get married.
There’s definitely two sides. As a female who grew up broke putting money into someone can feel like a risk. There’s a difference between being generous with someone that doesn’t need it and taking care of someone that does. She doesn’t want to be taken advantage of and she is not willing to admit she has trust issues. At the same time she’s trying to toe the line. She’s giving off major gold digger vibes. She’s with him because someday he will make way more money than her. Maybe he will have to pay 6k to take her on vacation or 12k. And if he was asking her once a week when she can pay him back she would probably be offended. Because the whole point of sticking it out with him now is to benefit from his future wealth. Which she kind of gave away already.
I feel like Serena has a lot of Growing up to do. If Nathan is her person, then she should want to take care of home too but instead she has imposed a lot of anxiety and stress around keeping her happy. I hope that they manage to work this out.
No he should drop her 😂. Like you would tell her if the tables were turned.
21:40 Notice how Serena is admitting this is very hard for her. Her heart is even pounding as she tries to get the words out! I think that’s very courageous. Can you think of a time you believed something but were too afraid to voice it out loud?
This was one of the best episodes yet! Cliff hanger!
@Ramit Sethi - You talk about picking the right person to marry - I wonder - Do you ever work with a couple and think "oh they picked wrong?". Or if they are compatible n general are the money differences always able to be overcome?
Love your ability to approach situation without personal judgement and still carry a strong opinion.
It’s a real cliffhanger. I admit to being a bit (more than a bit) judgmental on them, particularly Serena’s attitude to the money side of their relationship. I’ll wait for part two with bated breath!
Have you ever had your heart pound because someone called you out on your own bullshit? Yeah.
Serena isn’t wrong in her thinking…it’s what she wants BUT Nate has his thoughts they matter equally. Hitting anyone up for anything negative when they walk through the door is unreasonable.🤦♀️ Everyone needs some down time.
@@mamalovesthebeach437 I get where you’re coming from but I don’t think you can say she’s not wrong. This type of thinking in a relationship is wrong. She says she wants him to take care of her, but there’s other ways to take care of someone that doesn’t involve spending money on dinners and drinks. Also, if to her spending money and picking up the check means taking care of someone then isn’t it reasonable for her to also take care of him in the same way? Instead, he has to basically beg her to split the check or pay a little more towards rent. All this keeping in mind that his lower income is temporary and he would definitely be treating her when he’s making 6x more in a few years.
I'm halfway into this talk. I think he should just call a spade a spade. Extremely painful listening to this.
Nate is going to be a doctor ... sooner than he thinks. She's a red flag. I've realised that compromise is VERY different to changing a person. If she can't change (and she can't - not rocket science to see this) then relationship not gona change. Nate, brother, in a short few years you going to be balling. Stand your ground.
Exactly. I’m female and I totally agree.
This is my first time watching your show Ramit, but I’m obsessed with observing the skill you have in getting to the heart of the issues!! The way you laid out your questions & dug in… 🔥 . Will def be watching more.
In my household, we contribute by percentage. We also have a joint account and a separate account. It keeps things simple and feels equal. The contribution also naturally scales up and down with pay.
Dude literally just shared a hug with the dog. He doesn't even get his own hugs.
how awesome would it be if he went "I think we need to take a break while I'm in my residency, once I start working full time as a doctor lets reconsider if we still want to be together." I think he'd be so much happier being single right now. I guarantee once he starts making hundreds of thousands she'll also start seeing his income as her $$ to spend and make plans with.
@@startingtech3900And the “I have student loans to payoff” lol
He can’t afford to be single! That’s why he’s with her!
Wow! Nine minutes in and I'm identifying cultural money attitude from Serena. In my last job I made acquaintance with a woman of "Far East" descent, first generation American, and often she would distress over the differing financial attitudes between her and her fiancee. As for the trip, I didn't catch any statement that Nate agreed to a loan. The statements sounded like Serena chose to ignore Nate's inability to afford the trip and she decided to plan the trip because she wants to bring him to meet her family. If this was the case, Serena should acknowledge that and suck it up. Serena should Pay for the entire trip that she is set on having and treat Nate without any repayment required. I hate when people don't respect that someone tells them that they don't have the financial ability to do something, but then someone else makes plans and reservations that they then expect you to pay for, AND you've already declined the added debt.
Its like that episode of Friends where to celebrate, the majority of friends choose a very expensive restaurant that two cant afford and those two always order the cheapest thing on the menu, cucumber soup, with the others who are more affluent being totally oblivious.
🎯🎯🎯 she totally should have let him decline to go or postpone the trio until he could afford it
If you truly love and value your partner, you will encourage and support them through their journey (ex:education). Loving couples will back up their partner when things go up and down. Once the relationship starts to become a transaction, then it starts to go downhill.
Solid, genuine session. Love the authenticity. Subscribed.
If he was earning more and they went on a trip, is she expected to pay for half of the vacation?
I don't understand what her problem is. If you date someone who is a medical resident, you go into it knowing that they are overworked, overstressed, and underpaid. She's lording her money over him while also expecting him to treat her all the time? Bizarre.
Nate, one word bro, "Run!"
Exactly
Yeah he should leave once his apartment that will be free becomes available.
as a female medical student… I can’t wait to treat my husband in the future. she needs some big time introspection.
Dave Ramsey mentioned a rule that you should never break and it states, "Never loan money to your friends and family." If you want to give them money as a gift that is totally fine, but NEVER loan money to your family and friends. Also I understand she wants to be treated to dinner which is fine, but how about go to a dinner place that is cheaper? Or how about go to the grocery store and make dinner for each other? Just a thought.
Amazing episode! Gender roles totally at play. I can't wait for you to release the second part. Thank you, Serena and Nate, for letting us hear and see your conversation!
Yet she's making more. And she's probably not investing that money. Probably spending it on expensive BS.
@@Jake38ninewhy do you assume she doesn’t spend her money well? I didn’t hear that in the video so I’m curious
@TheBlackVelveteen Because why else would she be unreasonable and make him pay for everything when she can pitch in more than enough? Statistically, women make up most of the spending in America, so it only makes sense that she's hogging all her money for herself and her selfish things, while making him slave for her.
@@Jake38nineyou clearly didn’t watch at all. She has a very good amount saved for her age.
It stuck to the episode until the end but it was very difficult hearing how Serena treated "her person"
This video option has really added a whole new depth to your show. Can’t wait for part two and to continue watching and learning about finances and how to improve relationships!
Nate please run! There are many other women who would support you through this !!!
I would LOVE to see the texts she sends her friends about Nate
Did she really start off by saying she lent him money? Her fiance now has a loan from her? To go on a trip to see HER family? Haha sheesh. Immediately, a sign things need to change for this marriage to last the long haul.
I *love* the added dimension of video, but also appreciate the comments here too! Too many times, I've finished listening to an episode and have wanted to talk about it to someone. I would encourage commenters, however, to try to judge less. It takes a lot of courage to appear on Ramit's podcast, and nobody is perfect. We are all learning, and have work and growth to do in regards to our financial traumas, which all present differently!
Excellent comment. Thank you for watching
If I were in Nate's position and the request is for me to visit her family by her wishes and knowing my current financial situation, it would be a no, unless she wants to pay for the trip as gift and not a loan.
Yep. She wants to control him but also wants him to pay for doing what she wants. He needs to learn to set healthy boundaries
What a WILD situation. I can tell they care about each other but she can't let go of that 'I must take care of myself first' role... I got pretty upset when she said how she has 30k invested and can now finally afford to go out and have some fun, whilst simultaneously hounding her future doctor/husband for money that she willingly offered or expecting to be taken care of. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. I really hope that Ramit was able to break through to her, I'd like to see them thrive and not have poor Nate feel so inclined to constantly stressed.
Reminds me of the Betty Broderick story, financially wise. Betty supported her husband Dan, while he became a doctor and a lawyer. Then once the money started rolling in, he left her for someone else and with nothing. It didn’t end well for either of them. She is smart to be cautious.
In what way did you gather that from this episode?
Being raised up in Asia i just can't process the concept of engaged or married couples "lending" and "paying back" money from/to each other. I know it's normal in the western world but having lived in America for almost 10 years still can't get me used to this.
It’s weird to me, too. My wife & I just SHARED the money while engaged. We never created repayment plans when we needed each other’s money.
Superior curious about their backgrounds that led to the debt-to-each-other thing.
As an Indian, it's weird for me too. But also look at the odds things can end in a separation or a divorce. The odds are much higher in the west. So everyone should look after their best interests.
It's not a Western thing, this is what happens when you live in a liberal society that recognizes individuals as the atom of society and not families. Marriage is just a temporary union between individuals, so you have to maintain accounts in case you split down the road.
@@gaurinawathe6856 I think that part of the reason that relationships have a higher likelihood of ending up in a separation or divorce in the West is partially due to increased value placed on individualism. Of course I think that people should try to meet their own best interests, but hyper-individualism within relationships (as displayed within this couple's relationship dynamic) would only serve to make that more true. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
@@jantheman3559 one could also argue that in the West, people can leave unhappy or abusive marriages. They don't have to suffer violence, a cheating spouse or incompatibility as there is no or little social stigma around divorce.
Splitting living costs proportional to gross income is an easy starting place in deciding how to fairly share the cost.
But I would argue that perhaps there's an even more fair metric among couples who are financially committed to each other's futures.
Nate earns 45k and his living expenses amount to 97% of his income. After all expenses he is able to save $1350. That's how much he can save per year if he doesn't experience any unbudgeted expenses or hardships. If his car breaks down, he may literally be unable to repair it without taking out snowballing credit card debt. If his best friend gets married on the other side of the country, he may not be able to afford the plane ticket, the tux rental, and buy a wedding present.
Now consider Serena. She earns $80k and her living expenses are 78% of her income. At the end of the year she is able to save $17,600. At this savings rate, she doesn't have to worry about whether going out for drinks or dinner a few times a month will impact her ability to also cover car repairs while paying down her student loans, or the ability to afford to fly herself and Nate to Asia for vacation. Financially, she has a much larger cushion.
So another way to balance the budget between a couple who are financially committed to each other's futures would be to ensure that both have similar discretionary spending power. That means that, together, they would each have almost $19,000 budgeted towards their common savings goals: saving for retirement, buying a house, saving up for a new car, paying off student loans, traveling to Asia, going on vacation, buying furniture, ...
And finally, budget some of that money for discretionary spending for each of them that the other doesn't have to (directly) benefit from, like subscriptions, or going out with their own friends, buying toys, etc. Even if that was $1000/person/year, that would leave Nate with substantially more financial freedom, a huge safety net, and less stress, while not substantially impacting Serena's savings goals that aren't also in her best interest (Nate's $1000 discretionary budget, or whatever amount they agree on to live for the present while also responsibly saving for the future).
"a little bit of it is societal, a little bit is selfish". Jeez, lol. She wouldn't be proactive to pay proportionally if she was making 200k and Nate was still making 25k!! On the face of it, Serena has serious emotional problems with money. Nate, my friend, this is a horrible situation.
Ma'am you make 80k. You're not Warren Buffett. Also your dude is gonna make a bajillion dollars in literally 2 years. If you dont pay for that man! I make 6 figures and my bf does not. We just went to Costa rica. I wanted to sit in more expensive seats, but that would have been a stretch for him financially. So we figured it out! I said im not sitting in coach when i don't have to. So i paid for our seats and he paid for our lodging for the trip since it was cheaper. Then he paid for most of our food. Win win! We split large things percentage wise 55/45% or 60/40% and just pay the percentage. Its not fair for him to pay half when i make more.
57:28 “I don’t think I would love it if it were ME” - sums up everything about this episode and Serena that you need to know. She expects better and more from Nate than she gives him.
Treat other people how you want to be treated. You can bet that when he is making 300k+ she will not want to be splitting rent 50/50.
I agree with another comment that Serena’s entitlement is likely linked to some childhood defense mechanism but it’s manifesting in an awful way and she needs to do some serious work on herself