0:00 Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
I would actually love for you to evaluate my finances and get feedback. I have it but don’t know what to do with it so that it’s working for me. I don’t know how to invest and I’m only saving.
@@Shelincali9 start by reading Ramit’s book! You will learn about investing. Use his journal to know where you are at not only financially, buy with your money mindset.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
I’m surprised him getting a job wasn’t a solution until he could figure out a business model that works. In California, getting a 6-figure job might be easier than starting a business. Even though their money values are different, their communication styles are similar. Very passive. She won’t tell him to step up and he won’t speak up or offer solutions. Ramit has to pry him for answers and to articulate his thoughts. Can’t wait to see how they fix this.
I live in CA. Me and most of my friends with 6 figure job have remote work. If you're in the frat club, maybe your friend of a friend can get you an entertainment job.
They don’t have a money problem they have a relationship problem. He helped her while she was in school and she is now saying he’s not enough so he’s feeling like she wants to leave now that she has a large income. They need to go to a marriage therapist, he’s feeling invalid and insecure and she’s too busy now because of her high paying job.
People are really missing the boat this. He did not help her during school. He put all of those expenses on a credit card and wasn't telling her. SHE then paid those credit cards off. She essentially funded their lifestyle + interest. It was his secrecy that caused the issue.
There’s a lot unpack in this episode. It seems like she’s reluctant to have a candid conversation too. You can see her body language of smiling and shaking her head but then she’s not willing to say anything until Ramit actually calls her out. As if she’s already checked out but she’s willing to speak her mind in the application. Like, if this is how she reacts in a conversation behind closed doors, it’s hard to make any progress. Now, it’s possible she simply feels like he doesn’t want to talk. Who knows. But I don’t know if it’s realistic in Southern California for him to make enough so she can work, say 3 days a week instead of 5. Pulling back on her salary is going to be a huge hit on their income.
She paid for her own school and he funded their life with credit cards secretly. Then she paid that bill. So they don not need a therapist they need a lawyer, that is financial infidelity. They need to go their separate ways as they have different paths in regards to money and planning.
@@travelnurseadventures3225no. Her student loans are going to kick in. But she paid off the credit cards that he used to contribute to their bills while she was in school.
I can't stop watching these podcasts! I want Jorden to get some therapy and work on the root issues, then I think he can better benefit from his business coaches. It can't be easy being a wife, making that mych more than your husband.I wish relationship and financial healing to this family.
I would say divorce her. He will be better without her. His $70k along is good enough for many families. It is sad to see people were compared side by side. We can't choose the family to be born to. He didn't deserve to be humiliated. He apparently loves her and got emotional to foresee what may happen. He ultimate decide to do what is needed to keep the relationship. She is cold hearted. She may be earn more. The letter she wrote was very revealing what she truly is. Love is people unconditionally support each other, prompt each other to be better self. Love is not one person demands the other to make enough to match his/her status. You can have children if you only make $70k. It can be a happy family if the family only make $70k. Her family may be taught her how to deal with money. But her family surely didn't teach her to be a nice person to care the feelings of the others.
The end was quite an eye opener. The sacrifices he has made for her. How can he be successful in business if he is constantly moving cities and has no support system? He may have sounded hesitant because he didn't want to throw her under the bus. She kept talking about her paying the CC but never once did he mention his sacrifices. He is an amazing guy who deserved better treatment on this episode. Why did Ramit not point that fact out? A successful business means building a pool of clientele and being consistent. He was made to feel as if he has no plan and he is a failure. I also feel hearing her email threw him off and he wasn't able to recover. I wish him the best but i don't see them lasting for ten years.
@cokedclassic7627 he's probably been railroaded so long that his backbones gotten weak. It's very hard to fail. Fail. And fail again then ponder wonder and possibilities. Even at the end she says "you have coaches" (around the 50 minute mark) but it seems his self belief has been shattered. You can get instruction and pep others up all day long. But believing anything is possible for yourself can seem so far from reality. It's especially rough when you have very conditional support from your "lover" who constantly rubs her success in your face.
He sounds like a broken down man. She will keep bringing this income issue up his life would be better if he just left. 33k a month is way more than enough if the roles were reversed this wouldn’t be an issue.
I agree. What she said in her letter really hurt him and really threw him off and he clammed up for the rest of the time. The way she wrote it was as if he was disposable and she could cancel him anytime from their lives. It was unfair. I think Ramit struck out on this one. He didn’t ask about any sacrifices he made while she was a student. Or even going into debt thinking that it was okay to fund their lifestyle while she was a student. She also double speaks a lot saying it’s not about the money but then measures his contribution to the relationship purely on monetary contribution. She wants a 50/50 partner and he won’t be that unless he is wildly successful. Top 5% of income earners many $400k a year. It’s a rare feat to expect.
I agree with this. I find that Ramit rarely calls out women when they are clearly on the wrong. (Also see the training male doctor who's partner was mistreating because he was still at a lower salary, forgetting that he'll be earning more than her in a couple years' time) The issue here is that the guy will never 400k, the lady has a problem with that. It is a simple case of whether she actually loves him and would support him regardless, it appears not. This man looks broken likely from feeling inadequate by what's he's been told. Look at the letter at the beginning, when will he level up, and she wants him to pack his bags. If i heard that I would just respect myself and leave, probably what the woman wants anyway.
The ending hits hard for me because my father sacrificed his education so that he could put my mother through school, just for her to end up divorcing him.
Nicole and Jorden's situation is less ill-fated. Jorden covered his business expenses and their living expenses using a credit card without making Nicole aware he was debt spending. Once Nicole started earning a high income, she helped Jorden pay off the $30,000 of credit card debt in less than 6 months. She's mostly worried that she might have to sacrifice her time with her children to help Jorden pay off any debt he/they might incur. Ultimately, I wish them the best.
I usually enjoy these episodes, but I did not like this episode at all. I don't think anyone on this episode got to the heart of any real issues. Because the real issues are not about money, they are about priorities. Nicole wants to be with someone who makes a lot more money so that she can be a part-time stay at home mom while maintaining their current income. It's unclear what other skills Jorden has, but his personal training business is not going to make the amount of money necessary for Nicole to have that lifestyle (same total household income + part-time mom). As a couple, they have to decide how important it is for Nicole be at home part-time and if that IS a top priority, what lifestyle changes or career changes need to be made in order for that to happen. Not every person and not every career is capable of making $400k. Some careers take a long time to get to $400k, some careers take years and years of schooling to get to $400k and some careers cap out before that $400k salary. Nicole and Jorden could also adjust their cost of living to make Nicole's goal of being a part-time stay at home mom work. Lots of things are possible. But it is unclear what life priorities both Nicole and Jorden are aligned on. And that's the biggest hurdle here. I felt like Nicole was being very punitive, honestly. Without saying it explicitly, she wants Jorden to "step up" and make $200k and for him to figure it out on his own. Since a marriage and a family unit is something they build TOGETHER, Nicole and Jorden need to talk through what's most important to them and what options they have in order to make that dream come true. Honestly, it felt like Jorden was being punished for not being able to make more than $3.5K a month. And that felt really unfair. If my partner told me I need to quadruple my salary overnight with support on how to get there, I would feel pretty shitty about myself too.
I think it’s ok to say that for this relationship they won’t last or continue. She said in the first episode she doesn’t want to have to work and be a full time mom because women tend to take on more of the responsibilities when it comes to child rearing in the home. So she wants him to be able to continue to afford the current lifestyle. She’s making 30K a month. You would think that she would be able to save up in preparation of having the baby whether that’s a nanny or whatever. But that would lead to resentment of having to save for the children, take care of the children, and work part time?!? It’s not looking good for him
Ugh I totally agree! If anyone can just...make 200k, wouldn't we all?? And what is this extravagant lifestyle they're trying to live? They could be happy living on just her cut back 300k salary lol. I'm not quite finished the episode but am so annoyed I came here to see what people's thoughts are...this one is really dragging out. Ramit is not asking the questions to get to the point, I kind of feel like I don't even know what they're talking about. Like the goal is to get Jordan to make 200k...? Ok....
Yes. I hated this one. Like really. If she worked part-time at 300k and Jorden quit his job to be a stay at home dad they could still have an amazing life. Even is SoCal. Honestly, I did not care for her at all. And I kinda felt Ramit was really harsh with Jorden telling him his business really wouldn’t be successful….
Or BS on your girlfriend. 30K is a lot of stinking money, or I'am the only one that thinks that. This guy reminds me of my X-hus, comes onto the program for what??? Help or sympathy, or please feel sorry for me, after I took 30K, ok the guy got some good views, what else is new?
@@dpayne1943 Correct, but I'm projecting from the knowledge from being projected to your public, what is being taped. True, he didn't answer for quit a while, even you projected that silence. Knowing these people, only behind closed doors is the real, true facts, as in my own marriage. Mine was a total lie.
My buddy was in this situation. Worked as a firefighter making 55k a year but had a perfect credit score. Met his wife when she was bar tending. Paid for her nursing school. She became a nurse manager making 150k in 3 years. Told him to step it up to adjust for her lifestyle. It's a double standard.
I haven’t finished watching this video yet, but it really sad that actually happened. But at the same time I read comments that he lied financially 😅 so we’ll figured out later. Both need to be accountable in order to works 😌
It depends if shes raising kids, thats a full time job on its own Rather if he were the primary parent and they had kids, this conversation would be a bit different imo.
@@jelemil Even if the couple didn't have kids, a man who said this stuff to his female partner would still be considered abusive and greedy. It's common to hear women say they want to be "equal" to men. Being equal to men means being held to the same standards of behavior that men are held to.
@@jelemil raising kids is 100% a full time job. However, she needs a reality check that she’s the breadwinner. They won’t be able to live in SoCal if she doesn’t work. It’s not realistic for him to start making anywhere near her salary.
TBH, I feel that if he made $400k and she made $40k that this would not have been an issue. I doubt he would be asking her to level up her income. Even if she made $0 and was a stay at home wife I doubt that he would complain.
Agreed. This is an untold dynamic of women working. Many women have a very hard time “dating down”. It’s going to be very hard for this extremely successful woman to find someone she can respect. And she’s crushing Jorden in the process.
You are correct. Even if he continued making 40k, but was with a woman who made 50k this wouldn't be an issue. Because a school teacher wouldn't have said to him "we're getting a big house in California because that's what I want and what I can afford," then as they sit in that big house realize that to keep affording it, she'll have to keep covering the cost. They are living within her means, not his, but she wants to be financially supported by him once they start having children. He can't just will himself into earning 10 times more. He's not being lazy. He's just an average guy with average earnings with a woman who wants a 1% lifestyle.
The sad thing is he supported her through school, and put his own goals on hold while her dreams dictated where they lived and now she despises him-he created a monster.
Yes, I understand people say things out of anger but if that's any indication of the pain she could inflict on him in the future, he would be best running away from her and towards a more functional relationship. He seems like a good guy and sure the hell doesn't deserve to be treated like that.
This one was tough to watch. Jordan was so defeated, and neither of them could be specific about what they wanted. One thing they didn't talk about was how Nicole felt with all the pressure from her parents to (presumably) become a doctor of some kind. She knew for YEARS that her parents were saving aggressively for her education; it sounds like she wanted to focus on having a family, but now she's stuck working full time because she did the thing and has student loans to pay back. She's taking out her resentment on Jordan when it probably started with her parents when she was in middle school. I think these two have a chance, but they definitely need some therapy to work out their own issues if they're going to move through this.
Agree. And her school debt is a consideration for Jordan in marrying her. He supported her somewhat during school which gives her a higher income and now that hers is more and he's trying to build his business she's not wanting to support him. Also she could put money away so when she has kids she can cut back on work and have a cushion. Very brave of them both.
@@staceyswanson3918 6 years is a long time though, and it’s one thing to be going to school and getting your education it’s another watching someone burn money for years on a business with little redirection to show signs of revenue growth.
@@evs8557 agree! I hadn't watched to the end when i commented but was thinking the same thing in my head. Find a better job!! Which makes her feel more secure too.
These two have ZERO chance. did you hear her? Nicole was very specific in what she wanted, that is she didn't want to be the sole provider when she pumps out kids. she isn't a year in her career and she's talking about taking time off to raise the child. it's not going to work out. put a fork in it. especially before she has a Child with him.
Wow, I disagree completely. Once she got some psychological safety, Nicole seemed quite clear about what she wants. Jorden is incredibly passive and indecisive. She wants a go-getter, and he's not it (right now). Jorden needs a new job, the current one isn't working.
“This man needs to pack his bags” is the most honest part of the whole thing. It was over when he helped her make wildly more money than him, it sowed the seeds of her resentment
The Netflix series was entertaining, but I far more enjoy your UA-cam series and podcast Ramit. I’m thrilled to see you’re following up with these couples. The long version is so educational and helpful to so many. This was a very painful episode to watch. Jordan seems riddled with shame and guilt. Nicole seems withheld and resentful. She even use the word “contempt” which happens to be one of the four “horseman” as an indicator of demise in a relationship. Their plan seems unrealistic and unworkable. They should run not walk to a therapist who will call them out as you did Ramit. Are used to be somewhat passive in my expression in my relationship. I was married 26 years the first time and now 19 years the second. I’ll skip over the first mess… In my marriage currently we started out with vastly different financial standings. I owned a home and had my own business and no debt(other than mortgage). My husband had a very different relationship with money. He’s the most generous man I know, and the result of that is he had nothing for himself. He worked harder than anyone I’ve ever known in his business, but had nothing financially to show for it. It took years for us to work through issues on both sides. One thing that I would say was a dealbreaker is clearing out debt and we did that through the Ramsey program. It’s not for everyone and maybe not even for us, but it did have us talking regularly about money and working toward a common goal. My husband cleared all of his debt in less than two years. his income tripled. He started investing in higher end equipment and together we created a business where we deal with mostly high-end clients who are not shopping for the cheapest price but who want the most professional job. Maybe Jordan can make his business work with a shift in his mindset about his clientele but first he needs to shift his mindset about himself. Nicole needs to get real about what she wants, and if Jordan is the man, she will love and support without contempt or resentment. This couple is very brave to come on your show… For them to do this, they have the ability to make this work if they want to and they get really serious about doing it. I wish them all the best.
@@JordenPagel Pretty brave to come on this podcast and share everything with us, as a pt myself i can only imagine how hard it is for you to have a steady client base with all the moving around, i wish you all the best for the future.
@@TheAlfredPlatform she was hurt by that she didn't know he was really not succeeding in his career and just charging it all, which she ended up paying. He really needed to pay that before she found out if he wasn't gonna tell her the truth.
First one of these I've watched, for some reason I never realised Ramit is such a good mediator / therapist kind of guy. Doesn't take any BS, very helpful advice.
I've only started watching this series recently. I read his book and used to watch him on Creative Live years ago. This is a refreshing way to give money advice and help people not feel alone. I relate to many of the guests I've seen so far. I also wondered if Ramit went through "therapist" training to be able to take this approach. He is quite skilled.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
Wow! Nicole comes across as not super sympathetic! If the roles were reversed no one would give a second thought to jorden earning 10x more. There are so many ways to be a great partner. SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE THERE FOR THE KIDS. It’s all theoretical now because you don’t have them. Kids don’t just raise them self. Well adjusted kids need a present parent. A nanny can’t do this part. I think Nicole needs to get real. If she wants to work three days she needs a different partner. I just can’t get out of my head that her parents wouldn’t let her go out to dinner with a friend. Is it only me or does that seem a bit too far?!
This podcast is the therapy I didn't know I needed 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Always nuggets of wisdom that I'm able to take away from each one, even if my financial situation is different
Man I would never be able to crush my husbands spirits like that, like my love for my husband outshines income. I just feel thankful I make close to what he makes.
She is clearly low on self confidence, but not worse than him. She knows she should move on but either feels badly after their journey together so far or she’s left it so late that she doesn’t think she can find a match quickly enough thereafter. He’s insecure, and probably was before they got together. He’s petrified to lose her, and that’s generally unhealthy.
I see her confidence as ok but I feel like she holds back to spare his feelings. She should move on. there will always be an unequal power dynamic here that will just magnify if they have kids.
Ramit keeps talking about Jorden's net salary while allowing whatever her name is to talk about her gross income. But supposedly Jorden's gross income is actually 70,000 not 30 or whatever Ramit keeps saying. And she just mentioned her debt for her school loans so that's a big chunk of that $33,000 a month gross. All of these episodes sound the same after a while. I don't think I can keep watching. And she told that whole story about her parents putting money away for her education so why does she have so much school loan debt? I just can't stand how she's so holier than thou.
What I got out of this whole interview is that she is able to make a lot of money but wants to scale back once she has kids, why not start living in that income bracket already and save? Or find another spouse that is in the same career that will be able to keep up with her. He seems emasculated, which is sad.
Lolol ohhhh normie. 100k men don’t grow on trees & she is 5-7 years too late to get a guy like that. Even if she is 30 which she looks older her best fertile years are gone. She is old! Who don’t normies understand this!? If she was able to get that guy in the first place she wouldn’t have SETTLED for this beta!
This was the the most difficult of all the podcast episodes for me to listen to. I wish them the very best and I do believe they can have a positive outcome with ongoing professional support and a new opennes in their relationship. Vulnerability is going to be important. There are some deep seeded things here. Numbers are not the problem.
This was very painful to watch. It is very difficult when two mindsets are diametrically opposed and it takes a lot of intentional work to align. The only contributions in a relationship are not always financial but both parties need to feel as if they are being appreciated and not taken for granted. For most of my marriage I made more however my husband is very handy and creative and while I paid for the materials he renovated our home. Anyone that has done this knows that the labor can cost same or more than materials and this allowed him to feel as if he was contributing. Now he is making more and I work from home and I carry the majority of the home chores. Everything is about balance and communication and the occasional compromise.
How do you measure their effort or the success of their effort? If your partner worked 15 hours a day and brings home $1000 a month and your expenses are $5000 you would very much have a problem with what they earn even though they are putting out lots of effort.
If he doesn't make profit, she is just funding his expensive hobby. He can contribute and put effort in many many ways. I wonder... who does the dishes... cleans the floors... cooks the meals... does the grocery shopping etc. If it's her.. I totally understand her dire situation
I hate to say this but it seems like Jordan is not too bright and this relationship is not working out for either of them. I don’t think the lady is asking for more money. I think she’s asking for a plan and more financially responsible behaviour. Not do things like racking up credit card debt to go out for dinner and trips and conceal it from her
He's not confident because he is afraid that any answer he gives will not be good enough. He is constantly second guessing himself. He doesn't believe he deserves to be with her. Her attitude towards him may have changed after her job. She must have wanted more from life than what he has to offer. She doesn't need him to make the money; the lack of leadership from his end is the problem which makes her inclined to make all the decisions. I get her fear. Her time to get kids is running out and she needs him to pull up. She does not see the vision because he has none. Women date broke men all the time but it's important for those men to have a vision and a strategy. Poor Jorden is indecisive and dating a woman who is very clear about what she wants. She can't trust him with him getting so emotional about the topic. The problem here is leadership. Nothing else.
She chose someone who wasn't a leader abd demands he be something he is FUNDEMENTALLY NOT. She seems assertive and sometimes a tad brutish. The guy seems close to a Jerry from Rick and Morty. Awful combination sadly.
@@PolitickinI don't think anyone's forgetting that. When he was the sole provider, he racked up $30K in credit card debt that she ended up paying off. It was just deferred costs for her, plus interest.
98% of American households make less per year than this couple does. This isn't about money - they can EASILY live very well on that amount of money. This is about an unbalanced relationship, and gendered expectations. I am guessing that Nicole also does more housework than Jordan does.
@@truebengalsfan every one is super polar about if its about money or not. reality is these are not mutually exclusive. its about a LOT of things. its about money, its about gender roles, its about capitalism as well. all these things influence who we end up with and how we behave in our relationships. everyone wants to pick ONE THING that this is about that they feel the closest to emotionally. newsflash its about many things. also couples retreats and therapy can fix relationships so to say its done means you are ignoring more data and facts lol. particularly when plenty of people never go to therapy, stay together forever and are MISERABLE the whole time lol
Halfway through this video and it is very clear that they will break up and should. They will never be aligned financially. If I comprehended, she could scale back and make 200K instead of the 400K?!? Shes so concerned about that?!? The dude would have to be a stay at home Dad and do his business online until the kids get to school. They could use his salary to pay for cleaning and cooking to take that load off their hands while her salary can go to the housing. He would definitely need to be more hands on in the child rearing process but the money is a high priority for her and that’s ok. I don’t get how you could go into a high paying field and then be mad at your spouse for not making the same as you. She should’ve chosen someone in her field or adjacent.
@@MissKashira The hidden credit card debt is a significant aspect. Nicole expressed concern that Jorden might accumulate additional debt in the future, prompting her to help pay it off. Jorden needs to restore her trust and alleviate her worries. While some may believe that Jorden earning a higher income would completely resolve the problem, if Jorden were making $30,000 a month and incurred enough debt to cause Nicole to sacrifice her time with the children to contribute to debt repayments, there would still be an issue regarding money.
@@MissKashirawrong he is a beta simp. She wants to be dominated by Chad who gets her wet, hits her spot, & puts her in her place. This is really, really simple ffs! He was her last pick & now she regrets it, hates him & prob already left!
I’m a personal trainer, reasonably successful. Jorden’s story is eerily similar to mine and I felt that pressure. It gets better with a therapist and actually taking action on the things. Yeah money is nice but it really isn’t the main problem.
Jorden is trying so hard to get the "right" answers for the interview...and he is so tense. I'd be surprised if any of the teaching would actually sink in.
The only lesson he needed to learn is not to put himself 30k in debt to impress a woman. Everything besides that was just a public shaming for being a regular guy.
If you truly love and respect each other you build your lives together regardless of who makes what. $300,000+ is play to live on. I found this so sad.
This is hypergamy. I've seen it firsthand in some close friends. She's surrounded by 'more succesful' men and deep down doesn't look at him the same anymore now that she has in her mind ' made it'. Deep down he knows it too.
Their issues are deeper than money. You can so tell that their income disparity is a symptom of it. It takes a lot of unity, loyalty and intentionality to make it through the issue(s) at hand. I wish them well.
I hope more people read your comment. The followups are quite interesting, and a great demonstration that to really change, you often have to have difficult conversations. This couple was extremely brave
Hard to restart your business twice when the product is you. I think she will understand that more if she opens her own practice. Yes, this process got them communicating, but only time will tell if that is enough.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
@@leealex24 Sorry, I know several very successful relationships where the woman makes a lot more or even all of the money (a couple of stay at home dads). The problem is that mindset. Once you let go of it and it becomes ours then it is no longer an issue. For this couple it is the difference in how money is handled and her expectations of a partner.
I pay for youtube subscription to get rid of ads but I end up listening to the ads anyway with all the inserts from the sponsors. It’s starting to get on my nerves … a bit
Got about 15 min left but they should not have a kid and they will not make it. She married a personal trainer- how much did you really think he could make? She os a high earner, and money is now an issue - he will not recover in her eyes - he is darn near emasculated. They both should move on. Imagine someone telling you that you need to double your salary to halfway meet the mark. Seriously- can anyone reading this comment double their income on the next 12 months without extreme measures?
They needed a marriage therapist before this, along with individual therapy. I'm a therapy enjoyer, and I also a woman who makes double what my male partner makes. He's my confidant and I am his. But if I was always dragging our conversations back to my unresolved issues, we would get _nowhere_ as a couple.
If anyone is wondering how a recent grad orthodontist earns $400k, she works 6 days a week at 7 different practices! Homegirl is savvy. I'm glad they came up with a solid plan with a couple options and a timeline post-interview. It gives me hope that they are finally hearing each other. Hope things work out for them ❤
Things will never workout for them. No woman will ever be happy with a man that makes this significantly less than she makes. He will get verbally and emotionally abused and also get cheated on. He has little to no self respect and his life down the line will be absolute hell. I’ve seen this movie too many times.
For this couple, please I beg you, don’t have kids. having kids will not fix your problems. Continue to build your relationships. Build the trust and confidence that you can completely support one another
Gulp… I truly give people props for having the courage to come on a podcast to vent their issues with something that is the hardest issue for couples to tackle! Them being this courageous is already a huge step. It also helps anyone who may be going through similar situations.
They cannot marry each other. This is me and my husband's present situation right now. We cant break up since we have 2 children. When we got married he was a successful man and even paid for the whole wedding. Then right after, he started loosing a good job and haven't been able to get back up from before. I thought initially i only have to pick him up temporarily, then it wen ton and on and now i didnt realize it's been more than a decade now that i was just picking him up. For me, it's not really the money, but more on looking for a leader, for a man to lead my family. I became so musculine that i now work 3 jobs just to sustain our whole family. I feel like he took away all my femininity and my role being a mom. I'm just a working machine now.
Did they forget to mention how Jordan supported Nicole when she was in school? Now that she’s earning more, she’s resenting the $31,000 that her husband used to support her dream? She’s giving him a conditional love.
The reality is, asking for Jordan to earn more like her is like asking for a high income man to fully support his wife’s career like what Jordan did for Nicole. Her expectations are unrealistic and she seems to value money more than her relationship with her family. It makes me sad.
But Jordan didn't really support her. He paid for everything by getting them into 30K debt which Nicole paid off. So really, I would say both of them had equal footing in supporting Nicole through school but Jordan is on thin ice because he lied(or at least didn't mention) the fact that he was getting them into debt. I think its more the lying/omission that she's frustrated with - he just has a view point that everything will work out. It is WILD that he's even entertaining the idea of making 200K without much hesitancy. He has little self-awareness
Wow, this was tough to listen to. I just learned about this podcast and have been binge watching the episodes, and this is the first one I really did not like. It was so hard to watch Jorden learn his relationship was at stake and then get bullied into saying he should close his business. Just felt like kicking a man while he is down. I appreciate Ramit reflecting and realizing it was an interrogation, but I think he was in over his head with this one. I also don't understand a lot of Nicole's logic - she is on the fence about this relationship but talking about having kids?? I don't know. I wish them happiness and hope they can figure it out.
Re: " then get bullied into saying he should close his business." No one said that. He is not doing well in business and the 3 of them had to get that out on the table. She said he already has a business coach and he's still struggling. He thinks he can magically go from $40k to $200k in less than 2 years. I'm glad Ramit told him how ridiculous he sounds. Jordan lacks *insight* into his problems and how to fix them.
This guy is afraid to say it.. he's worried he can't meet her financial expectations and she is going to leave him for another man that can make that money so she can be a part time stay at home mom. They make so much money there is no reasons they couldn't save for it, reduce their expenses so it works for the current income. She just seems to want her cake and eat it to.. and he's being ignorant to his situation.
This is the elephant in the room that they are both ignoring. She wants a high income partner but chose a guy with a career that isn't lucrative. I also think gender expectations are on both of their minds. She grew up in a traditional household and I don't think she expected to be the breadwinner by a significant difference.
Puzzled why the focus was having him earn more money...the focus needed to be on what goals they have in common/ want to achieve for their future, is it having 2 kids and having weekends free to garden and cook? Or 1 kid, travel, and plans to retire before 50? She gives up her career and has 4 kids, and he works full time? Orthodontist mansion with a live in nanny? If genders were reversed, would it be the same? I didn't watch the video but listened to podcast...he was sniffling the 2nd hour...crying? Emotional/ allergies? Poor guy. Both have some issues to deal with for sure. The "we don't go out to eat" from her childhood is pretty awful to me. I am trying to figure out why she's worried about kids when they don't have kids yet....when I was in her time of life, I figured it would just all work out! Early in a medical career you do have to work a lot to build your practice/ pay loans, and if you have kids you have to have a nanny or a parent stays home or lots of family helpers nearby. That's true for most families in 2023, high earning medical professional or not. Later in the career, she can work 3/4 time or something and make a bit less and they would still have a lot of money. I wish they had gone into their numbers more to see what they needed to live on. Perhaps high level wish list or is it just California? It is cool he wants to help her build her own business but I think it may be very hard as they aren't aligned on financial issues and values right now. Also - Ramit and team, if you are reading this - I watched 2 episodes of your netflix show and found it pretty good but miss your "F" bombs (and your funny snarky humor) and think I like the podcast better as it focuses on 1 story and kind of wraps up at the end. However, my spouse seemed to enjoy the show and hope that will open up come conversations in our household about finances.
I just started watching this video. I’m not in far. I’m at 10:44. Ramit, I’m so glad that you said that there is more than one way to provide. Providing means watching the kids when Mom is sick, providing encouragement and support when she goes back to school, or making dinner after she had another late night at the offices. I knew a couple where the woman was the main breadwinner. She had a great job. She went to school to get his master’s degree. He was in charge of setting up play dates between his daughter and my daughter. He did the majority of the cooking. He had a job, but not a career. After she obtained her master’s degree, it was time for him to go back to school. He works as a high school teacher now. Couples need to do what’s best for them. The reality is that more women are earning college degrees and are making high salaries. Women are out earning their husbands. In order for couples to be successful, they need to figure out what is best for them.
All the stress comes not from the pay gap but from the fact that the guy earns less. Can culture rewrite a hundred-thousand-year-old script in even a hundred years?
It’s not fair for him to be pressured to match her income. It’s just not possible for him. If that’s priority for her, then she needs to find someone in her income bracket. Period.
A lot of these videos are so disgusting. If a guy made that much money, she just wouldn’t work and they’d have a happy life but because the rules are reversed, he’s made to feel like he is inferior
There is something weird and fishy about Jordan. I've watched the 1st and 2nd part twice. Hiding his financial struggle. Not being completely honest with his income and using credit card to pay his bills without letting his significant other know. Brushing off high amount of credit card debt as if its normal. So much redflags in a person. Whether a female or male do this its just wrong. Its just completely dishonesty in a relationship. Jordan should have let her know. Pretendijg to have money and living of credit debt is unacceptable. Now if he was honest about the situation to begin with it would have been a different story. But i sense there is something fishy about him. This is just what I sense from watching this twice. Also remember... she did helped pay off his $31k CC debt for him.
I have spent most of my day watching your videos today. I have watched your Netflix show in the past (I've watched the whole series 2 times and some episodes 4 or 5 times so the principles can sink in) and I have cried through most of them. I am moved by the vulnerability people share and I am blown away at the idea of just how many relationships your tools have potentially saved. I appreciate the fact that you use hindsight in each situation and you as a coach learn from your clients as much as they learn from you. Thank you. These words are so simple, and yet carry so much weight.
Call me crazy but this episode just felt like an intervention for Jorden to dump his job and find one that makes him feel less inadequate than he’s being made to feel by this inquisition . If her application wasn’t just mean but Ramit found it honest , then why did she stop him from reading the rest of it ? Prayers for Jorden . Maybe she should just marry a Surgeon because her stress seems to be the only one anyone cares about
These videos always shock me. Someone making 33K a month and still complaining about money. Just shows some people never have enough to be satisfied or to make good decisions. Honestly I feel like she thinks she's too good for him and looking for a way out.
@@tacosmargs58 yep it’s not a lot depending on debt and where you live in the US. She wants to start a family and she will be making less when she does. 15 k a month is less than 200 k a year 😂
@@tacosmargs58 with her profession yes. She’s an orthodontist. She needs to live in an area where people have a lot of disposable income who can afford braces which is thousands of dollars.
Has Jorden considered pivoting from Personal training to physical therapy.? Would his market have more of a need for physical therapist? There are some great trainers out there that know how to deal with an injury. We all have damage the real growth can only begin after the healing ends.
The education and expensive of being a physical therapist is pretty large. It’s not just some course you can take over the weekend. It’s a competitive three-year doctorate program (professional school).
She should definitely walk away from this relationship. It is very risky for her financially due to the high chance of paying alimony to him once they divorce (if they were to marry one day). Not worth it.
Did I miss where you go over the numbers? Their spending? Or was that in part 1…I can’t remember. Does their lifestyle/spending plan REALLY require $500k/yr.?? There’s an awesome podcast today about making decisions, especially about job/business…it would be a great listen for Jordan and those in similar situations. I mean-to me-I think he’s doing good! $5800/month gross is pretty good! I’d be interested in seeing his business expenses, I feel like 30,000/yr is a little high, unless it’s mostly like venue rentals or maybe the coaching.
The sad reality of life. Women become financially successful to be independent of men, she either wants someone making what shes making or making more. When men are financially succeful they want to provide and give as much money as they can. Its the sad reality, you'll hate to hear it but its just the way things are. The Netflix couple exhibit the exact same thing where the woman makes all the money and the guy takes care of everything else and shes not happy. Forget about her King!. Get yourself back in shape, work out, and focus on yourself. You lost this one. If she hasnt cheated on you already, thats whats coming next in the pipeline. Ive seen this story too many times. Women are all about them.
@S Kay you make an argument for the minority. Not all women, yes you're right but a grand majority. You just aren't honest with yourself because no one wants to see themselves as the bad one. Forget about women. Make Money as much as possible, never prioritize your time or make huge sacrifices for women and get in the best shape of your life. Just focus on yourself kings, society will tell you a million different times that they don't care about you and that you don't matter so why waste your energy? This is why men throughout history have always been monsters.
You act like men who women have supported and taken care of for years, don't drop them the moment they get enough money to get with the chick they really wanted. Happens so often we have a name for it, "the come-up woman."
The problem I see is this: Jordan was unable to be honest about his fiancial situation when he took on the debt to keep the household afloat. Nicole was naive and didn't care about talking about finances while she was in school because everything got paid. Both of them do not want to have the difficult conversations that relationships require. They should break up and work on themselves individually before entering another relationship.
In the first 4 minutes, the host read the words she wrote. She stopped him from talking, saying she didn't mean that, and she was angry. My ex-wife would do this all the time. People need to learn not to say things when they are mad. You might say something you can't take back.
And I think she should have allowed Ramit to continue to read it, I mean, the damage was already done so she might have been completely honest with Jorden, even they all knowing that she was really mad when she wrote that.
This current world is so messed up. If the man would be the one making $400k and the woman $70k I AM 100% sure THIS WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. we men are wired differently. Somethig to think about.....
Wow! He puts her/supports her through school and she looks down on him after she graduates?! You can tell she never thought much of him to start with. He is heartbroken. WOW!!!! Tyler Perry made a movie called Temptation of a Marriage Counselor. She needs to watch that movie.
The fact of the matter is that no matter how progressive people try to portray themselves as, almost no woman wants to be the breadwinner and sure as hell doesn't want to provide for a man. We can say it's old fashioned but we see this play out everyday. If we're being completely honest and realistic, she is eventually going to leave this guy. It's hard for a woman to respect and follow a man that she views as beneath her socially or financially. His passivity has already gotten to her. The initial application were her true feelings, even as this interview is happening, she just isn't prepared to admit it to herself yet that she can't be with a man that can't take care of her and lead the family the way she wants him to
This episode was kind of painful to watch. Jordan just sat there mute half the video. I honestly feel like nicole will wind up leaving him and find somebody with more initiative and ambition.
I think the one thing that didn’t get mentioned is that she knew for over A DECADE she was going to make hundreds of thousands and she was with someone making barely $50k and only NOW does she have an issue with it because of how she wants to live that isn’t really in accordance with the life she strived to achieve. Sounds like her parents wanted her to be a doctor and she didn’t and now she’s recognizing she wants someone who makes more so she doesn’t have to engage with the career as expected.
Poor guy! So many questions and grilling of Jordon. Meanwhile…tears because if they have kids they would suffer under the weight of only 300k. If the roles were reversed I am most sure the woman would not be grilled.
He's to good for her. He sacrificed so much to allow her dream and ultimately the money she makes. Who cares if he was racking up CCs to get her through school. She should of paid it off. That's the least she could do smh.
He was given a colossal gut punch from the letter his selfish partner wrote at the very beginning of the discussion. It threw his emotions off. Give the poor guy a break. Anyone would have this reaction if they are truly emotionally invested in the relationship. 😢
Hello ramit..ever since i have heard your book on audible..i am a huge fan of yours..and your tips are really helping me..esp the one to pay credit card debts ASAP and automtating my savings and investments..thanks a lot for this book..
It would be curious to see how Nicole's story plays out in the future with her frugality (there has been an epsiode with the guy with $6M) and can't spend
0:00 Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
Would love to!
I would actually love for you to evaluate my finances and get feedback. I have it but don’t know what to do with it so that it’s working for me. I don’t know how to invest and I’m only saving.
@@Shelincali9 start by reading Ramit’s book! You will learn about investing. Use his journal to know where you are at not only financially, buy with your money mindset.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
Definitely!
I felt literal pain for this man. This was gut wrenching.
Yep. He’s deciding to put up with this
That hurts
I’m surprised him getting a job wasn’t a solution until he could figure out a business model that works. In California, getting a 6-figure job might be easier than starting a business. Even though their money values are different, their communication styles are similar. Very passive. She won’t tell him to step up and he won’t speak up or offer solutions. Ramit has to pry him for answers and to articulate his thoughts. Can’t wait to see how they fix this.
I’m happy that they were able to come up with a few solutions.
I live in CA. Me and most of my friends with 6 figure job have remote work. If you're in the frat club, maybe your friend of a friend can get you an entertainment job.
Orthodontist paid so well!
I was wondering why that wasn’t an option anyone talked about too
They don’t have a money problem they have a relationship problem. He helped her while she was in school and she is now saying he’s not enough so he’s feeling like she wants to leave now that she has a large income. They need to go to a marriage therapist, he’s feeling invalid and insecure and she’s too busy now because of her high paying job.
People are really missing the boat this. He did not help her during school. He put all of those expenses on a credit card and wasn't telling her. SHE then paid those credit cards off. She essentially funded their lifestyle + interest. It was his secrecy that caused the issue.
There’s a lot unpack in this episode.
It seems like she’s reluctant to have a candid conversation too. You can see her body language of smiling and shaking her head but then she’s not willing to say anything until Ramit actually calls her out. As if she’s already checked out but she’s willing to speak her mind in the application.
Like, if this is how she reacts in a conversation behind closed doors, it’s hard to make any progress.
Now, it’s possible she simply feels like he doesn’t want to talk. Who knows.
But I don’t know if it’s realistic in Southern California for him to make enough so she can work, say 3 days a week instead of 5. Pulling back on her salary is going to be a huge hit on their income.
She paid for her own school and he funded their life with credit cards secretly. Then she paid that bill. So they don not need a therapist they need a lawyer, that is financial infidelity. They need to go their separate ways as they have different paths in regards to money and planning.
@@hrhsophiathefirst4060 I missed that-she has NO student loans? She paid cash her education? I couldn’t find that info
@@travelnurseadventures3225no. Her student loans are going to kick in. But she paid off the credit cards that he used to contribute to their bills while she was in school.
I can't stop watching these podcasts! I want Jorden to get some therapy and work on the root issues, then I think he can better benefit from his business coaches. It can't be easy being a wife, making that mych more than your husband.I wish relationship and financial healing to this family.
The pauses are painful…
I would say divorce her. He will be better without her. His $70k along is good enough for many families. It is sad to see people were compared side by side. We can't choose the family to be born to. He didn't deserve to be humiliated. He apparently loves her and got emotional to foresee what may happen. He ultimate decide to do what is needed to keep the relationship. She is cold hearted. She may be earn more. The letter she wrote was very revealing what she truly is. Love is people unconditionally support each other, prompt each other to be better self. Love is not one person demands the other to make enough to match his/her status. You can have children if you only make $70k. It can be a happy family if the family only make $70k. Her family may be taught her how to deal with money. But her family surely didn't teach her to be a nice person to care the feelings of the others.
3:52 watch his soul start to slowly leave his body
"The BIGGEST financial decision anyone can make is the PARTNER THEY CHOOSE" - This hit me on so many levels 😮
I agree. This is really sad.
@@lucillebaldwin6659 and why exactly is that sad?
Excellent quote
Duh, don't get a "partner"
Agreed
The end was quite an eye opener. The sacrifices he has made for her. How can he be successful in business if he is constantly moving cities and has no support system? He may have sounded hesitant because he didn't want to throw her under the bus. She kept talking about her paying the CC but never once did he mention his sacrifices. He is an amazing guy who deserved better treatment on this episode. Why did Ramit not point that fact out? A successful business means building a pool of clientele and being consistent. He was made to feel as if he has no plan and he is a failure. I also feel hearing her email threw him off and he wasn't able to recover. I wish him the best but i don't see them lasting for ten years.
He needed to talk. I don't disagree but he wouldn't talk... it was hard to listen to.
@cokedclassic7627 he's probably been railroaded so long that his backbones gotten weak.
It's very hard to fail. Fail. And fail again then ponder wonder and possibilities.
Even at the end she says "you have coaches" (around the 50 minute mark) but it seems his self belief has been shattered.
You can get instruction and pep others up all day long. But believing anything is possible for yourself can seem so far from reality. It's especially rough when you have very conditional support from your "lover" who constantly rubs her success in your face.
He sounds like a broken down man. She will keep bringing this income issue up his life would be better if he just left. 33k a month is way more than enough if the roles were reversed this wouldn’t be an issue.
I agree. What she said in her letter really hurt him and really threw him off and he clammed up for the rest of the time. The way she wrote it was as if he was disposable and she could cancel him anytime from their lives. It was unfair.
I think Ramit struck out on this one. He didn’t ask about any sacrifices he made while she was a student. Or even going into debt thinking that it was okay to fund their lifestyle while she was a student.
She also double speaks a lot saying it’s not about the money but then measures his contribution to the relationship purely on monetary contribution. She wants a 50/50 partner and he won’t be that unless he is wildly successful. Top 5% of income earners many $400k a year. It’s a rare feat to expect.
I agree with this. I find that Ramit rarely calls out women when they are clearly on the wrong. (Also see the training male doctor who's partner was mistreating because he was still at a lower salary, forgetting that he'll be earning more than her in a couple years' time) The issue here is that the guy will never 400k, the lady has a problem with that. It is a simple case of whether she actually loves him and would support him regardless, it appears not. This man looks broken likely from feeling inadequate by what's he's been told. Look at the letter at the beginning, when will he level up, and she wants him to pack his bags. If i heard that I would just respect myself and leave, probably what the woman wants anyway.
The pro: They make over $440,000. The con: she looks at $400,000 of that money as hers and not theirs.
Like most women
The ending hits hard for me because my father sacrificed his education so that he could put my mother through school, just for her to end up divorcing him.
Nicole and Jorden's situation is less ill-fated. Jorden covered his business expenses and their living expenses using a credit card without making Nicole aware he was debt spending. Once Nicole started earning a high income, she helped Jorden pay off the $30,000 of credit card debt in less than 6 months. She's mostly worried that she might have to sacrifice her time with her children to help Jorden pay off any debt he/they might incur. Ultimately, I wish them the best.
he needs to divorce her and collect alimony...lol
This is why men should NEVER make sacrifices for their wives' careers. Ever.
I usually enjoy these episodes, but I did not like this episode at all. I don't think anyone on this episode got to the heart of any real issues. Because the real issues are not about money, they are about priorities. Nicole wants to be with someone who makes a lot more money so that she can be a part-time stay at home mom while maintaining their current income. It's unclear what other skills Jorden has, but his personal training business is not going to make the amount of money necessary for Nicole to have that lifestyle (same total household income + part-time mom). As a couple, they have to decide how important it is for Nicole be at home part-time and if that IS a top priority, what lifestyle changes or career changes need to be made in order for that to happen. Not every person and not every career is capable of making $400k. Some careers take a long time to get to $400k, some careers take years and years of schooling to get to $400k and some careers cap out before that $400k salary. Nicole and Jorden could also adjust their cost of living to make Nicole's goal of being a part-time stay at home mom work. Lots of things are possible. But it is unclear what life priorities both Nicole and Jorden are aligned on. And that's the biggest hurdle here. I felt like Nicole was being very punitive, honestly. Without saying it explicitly, she wants Jorden to "step up" and make $200k and for him to figure it out on his own. Since a marriage and a family unit is something they build TOGETHER, Nicole and Jorden need to talk through what's most important to them and what options they have in order to make that dream come true. Honestly, it felt like Jorden was being punished for not being able to make more than $3.5K a month. And that felt really unfair. If my partner told me I need to quadruple my salary overnight with support on how to get there, I would feel pretty shitty about myself too.
I think it’s ok to say that for this relationship they won’t last or continue. She said in the first episode she doesn’t want to have to work and be a full time mom because women tend to take on more of the responsibilities when it comes to child rearing in the home. So she wants him to be able to continue to afford the current lifestyle. She’s making 30K a month. You would think that she would be able to save up in preparation of having the baby whether that’s a nanny or whatever. But that would lead to resentment of having to save for the children, take care of the children, and work part time?!? It’s not looking good for him
Ugh I totally agree! If anyone can just...make 200k, wouldn't we all?? And what is this extravagant lifestyle they're trying to live? They could be happy living on just her cut back 300k salary lol. I'm not quite finished the episode but am so annoyed I came here to see what people's thoughts are...this one is really dragging out. Ramit is not asking the questions to get to the point, I kind of feel like I don't even know what they're talking about. Like the goal is to get Jordan to make 200k...? Ok....
Yes. I hated this one. Like really. If she worked part-time at 300k and Jorden quit his job to be a stay at home dad they could still have an amazing life. Even is SoCal. Honestly, I did not care for her at all. And I kinda felt Ramit was really harsh with Jorden telling him his business really wouldn’t be successful….
I agree. This is my least favorite episode so far, and I’ve listened to a lot of them. I think this couple is doomed.
Jorden is putting so much pressure on himself! It's not about the money. 'There are so many other ways to provide'. Well said, Ramit! :)
Or BS on your girlfriend. 30K is a lot of stinking money, or I'am the only one that thinks that. This guy reminds me of my X-hus, comes onto the program for what??? Help or sympathy, or please feel sorry for me, after I took 30K, ok the guy got some good views, what else is new?
@@tabathia7633 Without truly knowing them, you are just projecting!
@@dpayne1943 Correct, but I'm projecting from the knowledge from being projected to your public, what is being taped. True, he didn't answer for quit a while, even you projected that silence. Knowing these people, only behind closed doors is the real, true facts, as in my own marriage. Mine was a total lie.
My buddy was in this situation. Worked as a firefighter making 55k a year but had a perfect credit score. Met his wife when she was bar tending. Paid for her nursing school. She became a nurse manager making 150k in 3 years. Told him to step it up to adjust for her lifestyle. It's a double standard.
I haven’t finished watching this video yet, but it really sad that actually happened.
But at the same time I read comments that he lied financially 😅 so we’ll figured out later.
Both need to be accountable in order to works 😌
@@hanibee22 exactly. i saw comments judging her which are justified but lets not forget he lied. and lets not forget they both are avoidant as hell.
Dang, not cool at all.
True. But if its the other way around it’ll be ok
If a man said, "I make $33k per month, she makes $3.5k...when is she going to step it up?", he would be considered abusive and greedy.
People need to stop caring lol It’s a different time now. More women are making more money now. If anybody wants that they can seek it.
My wife and I agree with you, Kyle +1.
It depends if shes raising kids, thats a full time job on its own
Rather if he were the primary parent and they had kids, this conversation would be a bit different imo.
@@jelemil Even if the couple didn't have kids, a man who said this stuff to his female partner would still be considered abusive and greedy. It's common to hear women say they want to be "equal" to men. Being equal to men means being held to the same standards of behavior that men are held to.
@@jelemil raising kids is 100% a full time job. However, she needs a reality check that she’s the breadwinner. They won’t be able to live in SoCal if she doesn’t work. It’s not realistic for him to start making anywhere near her salary.
TBH, I feel that if he made $400k and she made $40k that this would not have been an issue. I doubt he would be asking her to level up her income. Even if she made $0 and was a stay at home wife I doubt that he would complain.
Agreed. This is an untold dynamic of women working. Many women have a very hard time “dating down”. It’s going to be very hard for this extremely successful woman to find someone she can respect. And she’s crushing Jorden in the process.
@@awsambdaman facts
It’s really hard for a man to date a woman who earns more and makes it an issue…
You are correct. Even if he continued making 40k, but was with a woman who made 50k this wouldn't be an issue. Because a school teacher wouldn't have said to him "we're getting a big house in California because that's what I want and what I can afford," then as they sit in that big house realize that to keep affording it, she'll have to keep covering the cost. They are living within her means, not his, but she wants to be financially supported by him once they start having children. He can't just will himself into earning 10 times more. He's not being lazy. He's just an average guy with average earnings with a woman who wants a 1% lifestyle.
The sad thing is he supported her through school, and put his own goals on hold while her dreams dictated where they lived and now she despises him-he created a monster.
Totally unrelated, does anyone think the lady resembles Blake Lively?
YES
Like so much! Wanted to type a comment but felt but I wouldn't be adding constructively to the convo but now it doesn't matter lol
I felt like she also resembles Kelsey Impicciche
She does! But before her nose job
Don't be lame and compare someone's looks to a celebrity. Such a poor person's move
Geez that was a brutal application letter
Seriously. It just goes to show the importance of communication in a relationship. Specifically candid conversations.
Yes, I understand people say things out of anger but if that's any indication of the pain she could inflict on him in the future, he would be best running away from her and towards a more functional relationship. He seems like a good guy and sure the hell doesn't deserve to be treated like that.
This one was tough to watch. Jordan was so defeated, and neither of them could be specific about what they wanted. One thing they didn't talk about was how Nicole felt with all the pressure from her parents to (presumably) become a doctor of some kind. She knew for YEARS that her parents were saving aggressively for her education; it sounds like she wanted to focus on having a family, but now she's stuck working full time because she did the thing and has student loans to pay back. She's taking out her resentment on Jordan when it probably started with her parents when she was in middle school. I think these two have a chance, but they definitely need some therapy to work out their own issues if they're going to move through this.
Agree. And her school debt is a consideration for Jordan in marrying her. He supported her somewhat during school which gives her a higher income and now that hers is more and he's trying to build his business she's not wanting to support him. Also she could put money away so when she has kids she can cut back on work and have a cushion. Very brave of them both.
@@staceyswanson3918 6 years is a long time though, and it’s one thing to be going to school and getting your education it’s another watching someone burn money for years on a business with little redirection to show signs of revenue growth.
@@evs8557 agree! I hadn't watched to the end when i commented but was thinking the same thing in my head. Find a better job!! Which makes her feel more secure too.
These two have ZERO chance. did you hear her? Nicole was very specific in what she wanted, that is she didn't want to be the sole provider when she pumps out kids. she isn't a year in her career and she's talking about taking time off to raise the child. it's not going to work out. put a fork in it. especially before she has a Child with him.
Wow, I disagree completely. Once she got some psychological safety, Nicole seemed quite clear about what she wants. Jorden is incredibly passive and indecisive. She wants a go-getter, and he's not it (right now). Jorden needs a new job, the current one isn't working.
“This man needs to pack his bags” is the most honest part of the whole thing. It was over when he helped her make wildly more money than him, it sowed the seeds of her resentment
Agree 👍🏾
The Netflix series was entertaining, but I far more enjoy your UA-cam series and podcast Ramit. I’m thrilled to see you’re following up with these couples. The long version is so educational and helpful to so many. This was a very painful episode to watch. Jordan seems riddled with shame and guilt. Nicole seems withheld and resentful. She even use the word “contempt” which happens to be one of the four “horseman” as an indicator of demise in a relationship. Their plan seems unrealistic and unworkable. They should run not walk to a therapist who will call them out as you did Ramit. Are used to be somewhat passive in my expression in my relationship. I was married 26 years the first time and now 19 years the second. I’ll skip over the first mess… In my marriage currently we started out with vastly different financial standings. I owned a home and had my own business and no debt(other than mortgage). My husband had a very different relationship with money. He’s the most generous man I know, and the result of that is he had nothing for himself. He worked harder than anyone I’ve ever known in his business, but had nothing financially to show for it. It took years for us to work through issues on both sides. One thing that I would say was a dealbreaker is clearing out debt and we did that through the Ramsey program. It’s not for everyone and maybe not even for us, but it did have us talking regularly about money and working toward a common goal. My husband cleared all of his debt in less than two years. his income tripled. He started investing in higher end equipment and together we created a business where we deal with mostly high-end clients who are not shopping for the cheapest price but who want the most professional job. Maybe Jordan can make his business work with a shift in his mindset about his clientele but first he needs to shift his mindset about himself. Nicole needs to get real about what she wants, and if Jordan is the man, she will love and support without contempt or resentment. This couple is very brave to come on your show… For them to do this, they have the ability to make this work if they want to and they get really serious about doing it. I wish them all the best.
Thank you for listening and your in-depth thoughts! Talking with Ramit has been a great catalyst for us to talk and come up with a plan, together!
@@JordenPagel Pretty brave to come on this podcast and share everything with us, as a pt myself i can only imagine how hard it is for you to have a steady client base with all the moving around, i wish you all the best for the future.
@@rory644 thank you!
Massive grey wall of text.
Consider hitting the enter key a couple of times after a key thought.
@@JordenPagel ♥
Out of anger the truth is revealed,do yourself a favor and move on..that isn't the woman for you. Goodluck!
200k as a personal trainer is a pipe dream. He is never going to live up to her expectations.
Yes and she already essentially said that he isn’t good enough for her in her application letter. This relationship won’t last.
I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking like this. He’s done-so unfortunately for him.
@KnightFox it's sad because he helped her get to where she is today. Women never respect men that make less than them.
@TheAlfredPlatform say it loud for the people in the back
@@TheAlfredPlatform she was hurt by that she didn't know he was really not succeeding in his career and just charging it all, which she ended up paying. He really needed to pay that before she found out if he wasn't gonna tell her the truth.
“This man needs to pack his bags” WHY on earth would you publicly humiliate your man like that! My jaw is on the FLOOR!
Any man willingly to tolerate open and blatant disrespect on a public platform is no man at all.
men please leave the relationship when your wife is disrespecting you bluntly/publicly if not it is a steep cliff with no return.thank for the video
First one of these I've watched, for some reason I never realised Ramit is such a good mediator / therapist kind of guy. Doesn't take any BS, very helpful advice.
yea that's his whole goal.
I've only started watching this series recently. I read his book and used to watch him on Creative Live years ago. This is a refreshing way to give money advice and help people not feel alone. I relate to many of the guests I've seen so far. I also wondered if Ramit went through "therapist" training to be able to take this approach. He is quite skilled.
Thanks for the reco I’ll go looking for the older episodes prior to UA-cam. I quite enjoy this series.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
@@leealex24 Dang, I did not want to hear this
Wow! Nicole comes across as not super sympathetic! If the roles were reversed no one would give a second thought to jorden earning 10x more. There are so many ways to be a great partner. SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE THERE FOR THE KIDS. It’s all theoretical now because you don’t have them. Kids don’t just raise them self. Well adjusted kids need a present parent. A nanny can’t do this part. I think Nicole needs to get real. If she wants to work three days she needs a different partner. I just can’t get out of my head that her parents wouldn’t let her go out to dinner with a friend. Is it only me or does that seem a bit too far?!
This podcast is the therapy I didn't know I needed 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Always nuggets of wisdom that I'm able to take away from each one, even if my financial situation is different
Same
Also helps me feel more sane 😂
Man I would never be able to crush my husbands spirits like that, like my love for my husband outshines income. I just feel thankful I make close to what he makes.
Many women have this mindset and leave their man
I make way more than mine, and I would never make him feel bad about money.
She is clearly low on self confidence, but not worse than him. She knows she should move on but either feels badly after their journey together so far or she’s left it so late that she doesn’t think she can find a match quickly enough thereafter. He’s insecure, and probably was before they got together. He’s petrified to lose her, and that’s generally unhealthy.
I see her confidence as ok but I feel like she holds back to spare his feelings. She should move on. there will always be an unequal power dynamic here that will just magnify if they have kids.
Ramit keeps talking about Jorden's net salary while allowing whatever her name is to talk about her gross income. But supposedly Jorden's gross income is actually 70,000 not 30 or whatever Ramit keeps saying. And she just mentioned her debt for her school loans so that's a big chunk of that $33,000 a month gross. All of these episodes sound the same after a while. I don't think I can keep watching. And she told that whole story about her parents putting money away for her education so why does she have so much school loan debt? I just can't stand how she's so holier than thou.
What I got out of this whole interview is that she is able to make a lot of money but wants to scale back once she has kids, why not start living in that income bracket already and save? Or find another spouse that is in the same career that will be able to keep up with her. He seems emasculated, which is sad.
Lolol ohhhh normie. 100k men don’t grow on trees & she is 5-7 years too late to get a guy like that. Even if she is 30 which she looks older her best fertile years are gone. She is old!
Who don’t normies understand this!? If she was able to get that guy in the first place she wouldn’t have SETTLED for this beta!
This woman doesn’t need him anymore and now she’s done. He should run away and make a home with a nice receptionist.
This was the the most difficult of all the podcast episodes for me to listen to. I wish them the very best and I do believe they can have a positive outcome with ongoing professional support and a new opennes in their relationship. Vulnerability is going to be important. There are some deep seeded things here. Numbers are not the problem.
This was very painful to watch. It is very difficult when two mindsets are diametrically opposed and it takes a lot of intentional work to align. The only contributions in a relationship are not always financial but both parties need to feel as if they are being appreciated and not taken for granted. For most of my marriage I made more however my husband is very handy and creative and while I paid for the materials he renovated our home. Anyone that has done this knows that the labor can cost same or more than materials and this allowed him to feel as if he was contributing. Now he is making more and I work from home and I carry the majority of the home chores. Everything is about balance and communication and the occasional compromise.
I don’t have a problem with how much a person earns…I have a problem with how much effort my partner makes…
How do you measure their effort or the success of their effort? If your partner worked 15 hours a day and brings home $1000 a month and your expenses are $5000 you would very much have a problem with what they earn even though they are putting out lots of effort.
Its a known fact women cannot tolerate a man who earns significantly less than they do.
Average man makes
If he doesn't make profit, she is just funding his expensive hobby. He can contribute and put effort in many many ways.
I wonder... who does the dishes... cleans the floors... cooks the meals... does the grocery shopping etc.
If it's her.. I totally understand her dire situation
@@angostura7797 average is about 40k lol
Having parents teach yo financially literacy is a blessing. Most of us have to try and figure it out yourselves.
My parents taught me but my personality had to learn the hard way.
My parents didn’t teach me and I started to learn it myself in my late twenties. Better late than never!
I hate to say this but it seems like Jordan is not too bright and this relationship is not working out for either of them. I don’t think the lady is asking for more money. I think she’s asking for a plan and more financially responsible behaviour. Not do things like racking up credit card debt to go out for dinner and trips and conceal it from her
He's not confident because he is afraid that any answer he gives will not be good enough. He is constantly second guessing himself. He doesn't believe he deserves to be with her. Her attitude towards him may have changed after her job. She must have wanted more from life than what he has to offer. She doesn't need him to make the money; the lack of leadership from his end is the problem which makes her inclined to make all the decisions. I get her fear. Her time to get kids is running out and she needs him to pull up. She does not see the vision because he has none. Women date broke men all the time but it's important for those men to have a vision and a strategy. Poor Jorden is indecisive and dating a woman who is very clear about what she wants. She can't trust him with him getting so emotional about the topic. The problem here is leadership. Nothing else.
Well said. He appears so insecure and anxious
She chose someone who wasn't a leader abd demands he be something he is FUNDEMENTALLY NOT.
She seems assertive and sometimes a tad brutish. The guy seems close to a Jerry from Rick and Morty. Awful combination sadly.
He may be broke now, but you forgot the part where he was solely supporting her early on in their relationship.
💯
@@PolitickinI don't think anyone's forgetting that. When he was the sole provider, he racked up $30K in credit card debt that she ended up paying off. It was just deferred costs for her, plus interest.
98% of American households make less per year than this couple does. This isn't about money - they can EASILY live very well on that amount of money. This is about an unbalanced relationship, and gendered expectations. I am guessing that Nicole also does more housework than Jordan does.
It is about money when a woman makes more money than her man especially a lot more it can cause issues
54:40 couples retreat and couples therapy mean your relationship is done
If the difference in the income was less then it wasn't a much issue for Nicole..
that stat is a weak representation being that she makes FIVE TIMES as much as he makes.
@@truebengalsfan every one is super polar about if its about money or not. reality is these are not mutually exclusive. its about a LOT of things. its about money, its about gender roles, its about capitalism as well. all these things influence who we end up with and how we behave in our relationships. everyone wants to pick ONE THING that this is about that they feel the closest to emotionally. newsflash its about many things. also couples retreats and therapy can fix relationships so to say its done means you are ignoring more data and facts lol. particularly when plenty of people never go to therapy, stay together forever and are MISERABLE the whole time lol
Halfway through this video and it is very clear that they will break up and should. They will never be aligned financially. If I comprehended, she could scale back and make 200K instead of the 400K?!? Shes so concerned about that?!? The dude would have to be a stay at home Dad and do his business online until the kids get to school. They could use his salary to pay for cleaning and cooking to take that load off their hands while her salary can go to the housing. He would definitely need to be more hands on in the child rearing process but the money is a high priority for her and that’s ok. I don’t get how you could go into a high paying field and then be mad at your spouse for not making the same as you. She should’ve chosen someone in her field or adjacent.
Jordan is paralyzed by fear of what’s about to happen that he can’t think or work. Let her go and start over again.
This is not about money. But, I truly admire their courage to come and share their journey with us! 👏
We appreciate that!
It's definitely about the money. Add a few more zeroes behind his income and there isn't a conversation to be had.
@@MissKashirayou are smart
@@MissKashira The hidden credit card debt is a significant aspect. Nicole expressed concern that Jorden might accumulate additional debt in the future, prompting her to help pay it off. Jorden needs to restore her trust and alleviate her worries. While some may believe that Jorden earning a higher income would completely resolve the problem, if Jorden were making $30,000 a month and incurred enough debt to cause Nicole to sacrifice her time with the children to contribute to debt repayments, there would still be an issue regarding money.
@@MissKashirawrong he is a beta simp. She wants to be dominated by Chad who gets her wet, hits her spot, & puts her in her place. This is really, really simple ffs!
He was her last pick & now she regrets it, hates him & prob already left!
I’m a personal trainer, reasonably successful. Jorden’s story is eerily similar to mine and I felt that pressure. It gets better with a therapist and actually taking action on the things. Yeah money is nice but it really isn’t the main problem.
He has a deeper problem in being ok with having massive debt and the life mentality of "we'll figure it out." Not good.
100% true I make 100k a month (I own 8 gyms) and I don't even have a wife or gf to get on me about money 😅😅
Jorden is trying so hard to get the "right" answers for the interview...and he is so tense. I'd be surprised if any of the teaching would actually sink in.
The only lesson he needed to learn is not to put himself 30k in debt to impress a woman. Everything besides that was just a public shaming for being a regular guy.
If you truly love and respect each other you build your lives together regardless of who makes what. $300,000+ is play to live on. I found this so sad.
This is hypergamy. I've seen it firsthand in some close friends. She's surrounded by 'more succesful' men and deep down doesn't look at him the same anymore now that she has in her mind ' made it'. Deep down he knows it too.
shit sucks lol. ive been on both ends and never cared either way but im also healthy lol
Their issues are deeper than money. You can so tell that their income disparity is a symptom of it. It takes a lot of unity, loyalty and intentionality to make it through the issue(s) at hand. I wish them well.
She just wanted him to have a *plan* and be growing. Listen until the end, ya'll!
I hope more people read your comment. The followups are quite interesting, and a great demonstration that to really change, you often have to have difficult conversations. This couple was extremely brave
@@ramitsethi Their turnaround was impressive 👏🏻 🙌🏻
Hard to restart your business twice when the product is you. I think she will understand that more if she opens her own practice. Yes, this process got them communicating, but only time will tell if that is enough.
The gap is too big, I don't think they should be together. I think men income should always be higher than the women but, if women is higher, maximum 50% - 100% difference. 10x is too much, I don't think it will work out for them.
@@leealex24 Sorry, I know several very successful relationships where the woman makes a lot more or even all of the money (a couple of stay at home dads). The problem is that mindset. Once you let go of it and it becomes ours then it is no longer an issue. For this couple it is the difference in how money is handled and her expectations of a partner.
I pay for youtube subscription to get rid of ads but I end up listening to the ads anyway with all the inserts from the sponsors. It’s starting to get on my nerves … a bit
Jordan looks like someone on the verge of a breakdown, very sad.
My heart breaks for him
It's hard, but I don't see how this couple will survive. She will likely resent him over time
Got about 15 min left but they should not have a kid and they will not make it. She married a personal trainer- how much did you really think he could make? She os a high earner, and money is now an issue - he will not recover in her eyes - he is darn near emasculated. They both should move on. Imagine someone telling you that you need to double your salary to halfway meet the mark. Seriously- can anyone reading this comment double their income on the next 12 months without extreme measures?
Absolutely not, you need a lifetime to build that, and that's what he is afraid, he put his time building his business and doesn't know anything else.
They needed a marriage therapist before this, along with individual therapy. I'm a therapy enjoyer, and I also a woman who makes double what my male partner makes. He's my confidant and I am his. But if I was always dragging our conversations back to my unresolved issues, we would get _nowhere_ as a couple.
This! ❤
they aren't married yet
Wow. Women wanted equality. Well they got it. Some women will earn more than their partners. Deal with it or go live with some cats.
If anyone is wondering how a recent grad orthodontist earns $400k, she works 6 days a week at 7 different practices! Homegirl is savvy. I'm glad they came up with a solid plan with a couple options and a timeline post-interview. It gives me hope that they are finally hearing each other. Hope things work out for them ❤
Things will never workout for them. No woman will ever be happy with a man that makes this significantly less than she makes. He will get verbally and emotionally abused and also get cheated on. He has little to no self respect and his life down the line will be absolute hell. I’ve seen this movie too many times.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they get a divorce within the next year.
@@dialac1Quit spouting your nonsense - signed a woman who makes far more than her man and has zero issues with it.
For this couple, please I beg you, don’t have kids. having kids will not fix your problems. Continue to build your relationships. Build the trust and confidence that you can completely support one another
Amen
Agree. Oh hell, it will be a disaster if they have kids.
Yep @@yagga8885
Gulp… I truly give people props for having the courage to come on a podcast to vent their issues with something that is the hardest issue for couples to tackle!
Them being this courageous is already a huge step. It also helps anyone who may be going through similar situations.
They cannot marry each other. This is me and my husband's present situation right now. We cant break up since we have 2 children. When we got married he was a successful man and even paid for the whole wedding. Then right after, he started loosing a good job and haven't been able to get back up from before. I thought initially i only have to pick him up temporarily, then it wen ton and on and now i didnt realize it's been more than a decade now that i was just picking him up. For me, it's not really the money, but more on looking for a leader, for a man to lead my family. I became so musculine that i now work 3 jobs just to sustain our whole family. I feel like he took away all my femininity and my role being a mom. I'm just a working machine now.
Yes, tired of men becoming feminine these days, they need to step up and be the provider
#feminism that's freedom right? You don't need a man. Isn't that the whole point?
So it is not about leadership then? Not enough money = not enough leadership according to you.
This is so painful to watch!
Did they forget to mention how Jordan supported Nicole when she was in school? Now that she’s earning more, she’s resenting the $31,000 that her husband used to support her dream? She’s giving him a conditional love.
The reality is, asking for Jordan to earn more like her is like asking for a high income man to fully support his wife’s career like what Jordan did for Nicole. Her expectations are unrealistic and she seems to value money more than her relationship with her family. It makes me sad.
But Jordan didn't really support her. He paid for everything by getting them into 30K debt which Nicole paid off. So really, I would say both of them had equal footing in supporting Nicole through school but Jordan is on thin ice because he lied(or at least didn't mention) the fact that he was getting them into debt. I think its more the lying/omission that she's frustrated with - he just has a view point that everything will work out. It is WILD that he's even entertaining the idea of making 200K without much hesitancy. He has little self-awareness
Wow, this was tough to listen to. I just learned about this podcast and have been binge watching the episodes, and this is the first one I really did not like. It was so hard to watch Jorden learn his relationship was at stake and then get bullied into saying he should close his business. Just felt like kicking a man while he is down. I appreciate Ramit reflecting and realizing it was an interrogation, but I think he was in over his head with this one. I also don't understand a lot of Nicole's logic - she is on the fence about this relationship but talking about having kids?? I don't know. I wish them happiness and hope they can figure it out.
Re: " then get bullied into saying he should close his business." No one said that. He is not doing well in business and the 3 of them had to get that out on the table. She said he already has a business coach and he's still struggling. He thinks he can magically go from $40k to $200k in less than 2 years. I'm glad Ramit told him how ridiculous he sounds. Jordan lacks *insight* into his problems and how to fix them.
@samantha7669. I agree 100%.
This guy is afraid to say it.. he's worried he can't meet her financial expectations and she is going to leave him for another man that can make that money so she can be a part time stay at home mom. They make so much money there is no reasons they couldn't save for it, reduce their expenses so it works for the current income. She just seems to want her cake and eat it to.. and he's being ignorant to his situation.
This is the elephant in the room that they are both ignoring. She wants a high income partner but chose a guy with a career that isn't lucrative. I also think gender expectations are on both of their minds. She grew up in a traditional household and I don't think she expected to be the breadwinner by a significant difference.
Puzzled why the focus was having him earn more money...the focus needed to be on what goals they have in common/ want to achieve for their future, is it having 2 kids and having weekends free to garden and cook? Or 1 kid, travel, and plans to retire before 50? She gives up her career and has 4 kids, and he works full time? Orthodontist mansion with a live in nanny? If genders were reversed, would it be the same? I didn't watch the video but listened to podcast...he was sniffling the 2nd hour...crying? Emotional/ allergies? Poor guy. Both have some issues to deal with for sure. The "we don't go out to eat" from her childhood is pretty awful to me. I am trying to figure out why she's worried about kids when they don't have kids yet....when I was in her time of life, I figured it would just all work out! Early in a medical career you do have to work a lot to build your practice/ pay loans, and if you have kids you have to have a nanny or a parent stays home or lots of family helpers nearby. That's true for most families in 2023, high earning medical professional or not. Later in the career, she can work 3/4 time or something and make a bit less and they would still have a lot of money. I wish they had gone into their numbers more to see what they needed to live on. Perhaps high level wish list or is it just California? It is cool he wants to help her build her own business but I think it may be very hard as they aren't aligned on financial issues and values right now. Also - Ramit and team, if you are reading this - I watched 2 episodes of your netflix show and found it pretty good but miss your "F" bombs (and your funny snarky humor) and think I like the podcast better as it focuses on 1 story and kind of wraps up at the end. However, my spouse seemed to enjoy the show and hope that will open up come conversations in our household about finances.
I just started watching this video. I’m not in far. I’m at 10:44. Ramit, I’m so glad that you said that there is more than one way to provide. Providing means watching the kids when Mom is sick, providing encouragement and support when she goes back to school, or making dinner after she had another late night at the offices.
I knew a couple where the woman was the main breadwinner. She had a great job. She went to school to get his master’s degree. He was in charge of setting up play dates between his daughter and my daughter. He did the majority of the cooking. He had a job, but not a career.
After she obtained her master’s degree, it was time for him to go back to school. He works as a high school teacher now.
Couples need to do what’s best for them. The reality is that more women are earning college degrees and are making high salaries. Women are out earning their husbands. In order for couples to be successful, they need to figure out what is best for them.
Stay home dude, 33k a month household income is enough
they aren't compatible, they don't actually want the same things
All the stress comes not from the pay gap but from the fact that the guy earns less. Can culture rewrite a hundred-thousand-year-old script in even a hundred years?
This episode was so, so painful to listen to. Jordan seemed so lost. I felt so bad for him
It’s not fair for him to be pressured to match her income. It’s just not possible for him. If that’s priority for her, then she needs to find someone in her income bracket. Period.
A lot of these videos are so disgusting. If a guy made that much money, she just wouldn’t work and they’d have a happy life but because the rules are reversed, he’s made to feel like he is inferior
There is something weird and fishy about Jordan. I've watched the 1st and 2nd part twice. Hiding his financial struggle. Not being completely honest with his income and using credit card to pay his bills without letting his significant other know. Brushing off high amount of credit card debt as if its normal. So much redflags in a person. Whether a female or male do this its just wrong. Its just completely dishonesty in a relationship. Jordan should have let her know. Pretendijg to have money and living of credit debt is unacceptable. Now if he was honest about the situation to begin with it would have been a different story. But i sense there is something fishy about him. This is just what I sense from watching this twice. Also remember... she did helped pay off his $31k CC debt for him.
Weird how?
He’s probably feeling shame. I don’t think he’s being fishy at all.
Bet she’s met a fellow professional by now. Whatever brought these two together does not seem to exist anymore.
I have spent most of my day watching your videos today. I have watched your Netflix show in the past (I've watched the whole series 2 times and some episodes 4 or 5 times so the principles can sink in) and I have cried through most of them. I am moved by the vulnerability people share and I am blown away at the idea of just how many relationships your tools have potentially saved. I appreciate the fact that you use hindsight in each situation and you as a coach learn from your clients as much as they learn from you.
Thank you. These words are so simple, and yet carry so much weight.
He will be the house husband when children arrive. Is he/she okay with that?
no haha
Call me crazy but this episode just felt like an intervention for Jorden to dump his job and find one that makes him feel less inadequate than he’s being made to feel by this inquisition . If her application wasn’t just mean but Ramit found it honest , then why did she stop him from reading the rest of it ? Prayers for Jorden . Maybe she should just marry a Surgeon because her stress seems to be the only one anyone cares about
These videos always shock me. Someone making 33K a month and still complaining about money. Just shows some people never have enough to be satisfied or to make good decisions. Honestly I feel like she thinks she's too good for him and looking for a way out.
They’re in the US. $33k would come out at $15k after taxes.
@@jenndpelaez 15K after taxes isn't a lot to you?
@@tacosmargs58 yep it’s not a lot depending on debt and where you live in the US. She wants to start a family and she will be making less when she does. 15 k a month is less than 200 k a year 😂
@@lemondrop7305 I kind of don't think you understand life in the US. You do not need to earn 200K a year after taxes to live here.
@@tacosmargs58 with her profession yes. She’s an orthodontist. She needs to live in an area where people have a lot of disposable income who can afford braces which is thousands of dollars.
Don’t plan to be the breadwinner, yet becoming an orthodontist. At this rate Jorden needs to start slinging dope to make her feel financially happy.
Agreed. I think some people don't think through what a particular career path means.
Has Jorden considered pivoting from Personal training to physical therapy.? Would his market have more of a need for physical therapist? There are some great trainers out there that know how to deal with an injury.
We all have damage the real growth can only begin after the healing ends.
The education and expensive of being a physical therapist is pretty large. It’s not just some course you can take over the weekend. It’s a competitive three-year doctorate program (professional school).
He still wouldn’t make enough money for her.
I just finished watching last night. I was sad when I was on the last episode I didn't want it the be over.
She should definitely walk away from this relationship. It is very risky for her financially due to the high chance of paying alimony to him once they divorce (if they were to marry one day). Not worth it.
Agree. I can't believe they bought a house together.
See what "divorce protection" got us.
Of course a women would say this but you marry a rich guy.
Did I miss where you go over the numbers? Their spending? Or was that in part 1…I can’t remember. Does their lifestyle/spending plan REALLY require $500k/yr.?? There’s an awesome podcast today about making decisions, especially about job/business…it would be a great listen for Jordan and those in similar situations. I mean-to me-I think he’s doing good! $5800/month gross is pretty good! I’d be interested in seeing his business expenses, I feel like 30,000/yr is a little high, unless it’s mostly like venue rentals or maybe the coaching.
No of course it doesnt really require 500k...they know shes not going to make less than 300-400k so they said 500 since jordan cant be contributing 0.
The sad reality of life. Women become financially successful to be independent of men, she either wants someone making what shes making or making more. When men are financially succeful they want to provide and give as much money as they can. Its the sad reality, you'll hate to hear it but its just the way things are. The Netflix couple exhibit the exact same thing where the woman makes all the money and the guy takes care of everything else and shes not happy. Forget about her King!. Get yourself back in shape, work out, and focus on yourself. You lost this one. If she hasnt cheated on you already, thats whats coming next in the pipeline. Ive seen this story too many times. Women are all about them.
Not true. Not all women cheat or are selfish.
@S Kay you make an argument for the minority. Not all women, yes you're right but a grand majority. You just aren't honest with yourself because no one wants to see themselves as the bad one. Forget about women. Make Money as much as possible, never prioritize your time or make huge sacrifices for women and get in the best shape of your life. Just focus on yourself kings, society will tell you a million different times that they don't care about you and that you don't matter so why waste your energy? This is why men throughout history have always been monsters.
@@adany4556 facts. She'll move on in some time. Have seen this scenario hundreds of time
I hope she moves on, Jordan is not being an man, being a provider
You act like men who women have supported and taken care of for years, don't drop them the moment they get enough money to get with the chick they really wanted. Happens so often we have a name for it, "the come-up woman."
The problem I see is this: Jordan was unable to be honest about his fiancial situation when he took on the debt to keep the household afloat. Nicole was naive and didn't care about talking about finances while she was in school because everything got paid. Both of them do not want to have the difficult conversations that relationships require. They should break up and work on themselves individually before entering another relationship.
In the first 4 minutes, the host read the words she wrote. She stopped him from talking, saying she didn't mean that, and she was angry. My ex-wife would do this all the time. People need to learn not to say things when they are mad. You might say something you can't take back.
And I think she should have allowed Ramit to continue to read it, I mean, the damage was already done so she might have been completely honest with Jorden, even they all knowing that she was really mad when she wrote that.
This current world is so messed up. If the man would be the one making $400k and the woman $70k I AM 100% sure THIS WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. we men are wired differently. Somethig to think about.....
Wow! He puts her/supports her through school and she looks down on him after she graduates?! You can tell she never thought much of him to start with. He is heartbroken. WOW!!!! Tyler Perry made a movie called Temptation of a Marriage Counselor. She needs to watch that movie.
I’m feeling really bad for him but understand her. This will be a tough dynamic.
why they are not getting divorced
@@rinihaque2946yet
My heart goes out to him. Clearly he didn’t have the same upbringing with money so of course he doesn’t know how to move forward.
Very common problem women has enough and is mad with him because he is making less 😅
Hurts to see his pain. He really seems to be trying hard on a personal goal. Maybe if he was alone or with someone else it would be different
The fact of the matter is that no matter how progressive people try to portray themselves as, almost no woman wants to be the breadwinner and sure as hell doesn't want to provide for a man. We can say it's old fashioned but we see this play out everyday. If we're being completely honest and realistic, she is eventually going to leave this guy. It's hard for a woman to respect and follow a man that she views as beneath her socially or financially. His passivity has already gotten to her. The initial application were her true feelings, even as this interview is happening, she just isn't prepared to admit it to herself yet that she can't be with a man that can't take care of her and lead the family the way she wants him to
This episode was kind of painful to watch. Jordan just sat there mute half the video. I honestly feel like nicole will wind up leaving him and find somebody with more initiative and ambition.
This is better then reality tv, listening to rich people complain about money problems 😅
I think the one thing that didn’t get mentioned is that she knew for over A DECADE she was going to make hundreds of thousands and she was with someone making barely $50k and only NOW does she have an issue with it because of how she wants to live that isn’t really in accordance with the life she strived to achieve. Sounds like her parents wanted her to be a doctor and she didn’t and now she’s recognizing she wants someone who makes more so she doesn’t have to engage with the career as expected.
Poor guy! So many questions and grilling of Jordon. Meanwhile…tears because if they have kids they would suffer under the weight of only 300k. If the roles were reversed I am most sure the woman would not be grilled.
He's to good for her. He sacrificed so much to allow her dream and ultimately the money she makes. Who cares if he was racking up CCs to get her through school. She should of paid it off. That's the least she could do smh.
The commercials are annoying and way too long.
I had to put the video on 1.25x speed because it took forever for the guy to respond to any question
He was given a colossal gut punch from the letter his selfish partner wrote at the very beginning of the discussion. It threw his emotions off. Give the poor guy a break. Anyone would have this reaction if they are truly emotionally invested in the relationship. 😢
Hello ramit..ever since i have heard your book on audible..i am a huge fan of yours..and your tips are really helping me..esp the one to pay credit card debts ASAP and automtating my savings and investments..thanks a lot for this book..
It would be curious to see how Nicole's story plays out in the future with her frugality (there has been an epsiode with the guy with $6M) and can't spend