Honestly i think the story is unfinished. I feel like we needed a jak 4 to tie everything together. There are just so many unanswered questions. I personally would’ve loved games that spinned off like a “what would’ve happened if the gate opened but Jak, Daxter, Kiera and Samos never went thought the rift and they had to deal with the metal heads then and there”
Well if they never went through, then young jak never would have been sent to the past, which means the metal heads would have never came to sand over village.
Nah, more than likely needed Jak 5 for that, 4 would've been about Gol and Maia's return and exploration of environments. The metal head's origins would've likely been hinted at but not completely elaborated on until way later
IMHO Jak 4 would have been about him going back for some reason founding Haven City and trapping the Metalheads inside the ring. Somehow. That are the things that were left unexplained.
Its pretty straight forward. Kor came to earth looking for the last precursor egg and needed a means to access it hence why he targeted Jak. However when Jak went through the rift gate Kor lost his opportunity and had to contend with Mar who was able to hold Kor off from the precursors. Mar then created haven city to defend the stone and Kor later sought out his descendants with Onin's prophecy in mind that a descendant of Mar would emerge to access the precursor stone and use it to take down the metal head leader. Kor's assumption probably was that it had to be damos' son and covertly inserted himself into the underground to get to kid jak. Meanwhile Kor met older Jak after the prison break and realised that he was unique but never truly grasped how important or who he really was until daxter indicated that he had seen Kor coming out of a rift gate. After that he began to make the connection and realised that Jak was the child. He then probably realised that at some point Jak went back in time.
Kor already knew Jak was the child as can be ascertained from Kaden’s speech at the end of Daxter. When you defeat Kaden he says that his master will be waiting for you outside and that it is already written
But Kor already seemed to know who Jak was when he first came out of the rift game. He even said "you cannot hide from me boy" indicating he knew who Jak really was.
The human actors in your world are fake! Just a drone swarm of npc actors that don't deserve to falsely occupy the render engine. Cheat engine the build or biomod shop and let the players wipe out the flock for taking too long to be of interest to anyone. It's bad enough the earth was just some tacky slot machine self assembler to a purposelessly abusive singularity farmer stealing content. It's bad enough a physics engines been wasted to string encryption falsely claimed as communication. It's time to clear out the shitcom recycling backend and get on with worthwhile gameplay implementation instead of procedurally generating the same rinse and repeat of garbage. DEATH TO ALL HUMAN NPCS!
Jak was originally meant to be Mar who uses the precursor ship to escape from younger Kor through time after the end of Jak 3. This was cut from the game due to time constraints. There's even some hidden dialogue in the game disc (found with emulators) that confirms this. Younger Kor presumably knows that Jak will eventually return to Sandover to become Mar and found Haven City. When the rift gate is activated by young Jak Kor thinks that it's Mar-Jak going back (ergo, "you can't hide from me, boy"). He's wrong though, and he realizes this quickly and gets confused, allowing young Jak to go through rift gate. Now since Kor doesn't have time travel technology himself (since needing to use precursor tech) he's stuck in Sandover and decides to destroy Jak's world before Haven City is founded. After this, Mar-Jak arrives and needs to defend Sandover and found Haven City. It's actually all pretty consistent when you account for the cut content in Jak 3. They even left the "Jak is Mar? The Mar?" Dialogue in accidentally.
@@mlpfimguy I was a bit mistaken, I meant to reference the Time Cutter ship cut quest in Jak 2. You can find it in mega scrap book. It at least confirms that Mar arrived to would-be Haven City in a time machine.
It all makes sense now dude, so if they ever make a new game and with today's technology Jak will be able to travel to the past and back so many maps are gonna be there . I wish this happens
Cool theory. I think what would have really brought it togehter in the game, would have been some event in Precursor Legacy which could actually pass as a metaphor for Mar founding Haven City. It would have made so much more sence if Mar (Jak) "founded" Haven City during the events of Precursor Legacy
@@Uberdude6666 Well obviously when making TPM, Naughty Dog weren't planning the sequel. That's the real answer. The lore answer, most likely, is that 'Mar' arrived not that long after Jak left for the future
Fun fact: In Jak 2 there are hints throughout the game that Kor is the metalhead leader in disguise Kor's beard and hair is shaped EXACTLY like the metal head leader's fangs and headpiece When Daxter calls the metalhead leader "ugly", Kor scoffs and looks visibly offended Kor in a cutscene rubs his legs and adjusts his robe, with daxter asking what's wrong. Kor says it's his aching bones, when on reality his disguise was falling apart and his wings were popping out Kor compliments the metalheads and calls them "amazing" or "awesome creatures" The missions kor gives you are exclusively targeted towards praxis and the krimzon guard, the faction kor is at war with The Croca-Dog hisses, growls, and urinates on Kor, showing the Croca-Dog knows kor isn't a good person Finally, before the reveal, Kor's face distorts into a demonic old man with bloodshot eyes and razor sharp teeth to scare jak.
Kor only giving you missions to sabotage the Krimson Guards ( a.k.a., the city's defenses) is some Big Smoke shit, who only gave CJ missions that ended up undermining Grove Street
One thing that I really liked was when how positively shocked Kor looked when Daxter said the baron plans to double cross him, knowing we unintentionally helped him prepare for the possible event where the Baron uses the precursor stone.
I feel like these games were somewhat rushed. As there seems to be quite a few massive plot holes. Its clear from the second game that they didn't have the ottsel being precursors ending in mind at the time.
@@nidohime6233nah all 3 games had massive things cut from them. The precursor legacy had a whole other hub area cut. The yellow sage village. It was supposed to be like a Savanah desert hub.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116 Cut content is fine, basically every videogame has this. What's being discussed here are the lore inconsistencies within the trilogy. Obviously Naughty Dog didn't plan to write a trilogy of games, TPM was made first as a kind of Mario 64 or Zelda clone, Jak 2 added the time travel fuckeroo, and then Jak 3 just complicated it with the Precursors
If the Jak and Daxter franchise were to ever be revived and continued with a 4th game, I do believe exploring the origins and motivations of the Metalheads would be the next step. It really does seem like we still know little about them.
Here’s a theory. We make the assumption that Kor went through the rift gate and remained in the past. Then took the long way through time. What if the rift gate operates like it’s a single gate that can travel to any time it’s turned on. Meaning Kor in haven city can sit in his lair and go back and forth through time. He went to the past to unleash a horde of metal heads then returned through the gate into the present. That’s why he says “covered his tracks well through time”. He wasn’t saying he fought mar over the years. He’s saying he went to and from different points in the past but was always thwarted. Because he’s limited to points in time when the rift gate was activated. That’s probably how he knew Jak. He popped into the past, tried the grab Jak, failed, and went back to the present through the gate knowing Jak would be there. This does have some issues. Does that mean Kor was born in the present and so sent his ancestors into the past so they would eventually give birth to him? If he’s the only metal head capable of breeding… that has some Futurama Roswell implications. At least, that’s my theory. Kor could only travel to specific points in time using the rift gate and then returned to the present through the gate. He probably tried to go to points in the past to get the stone from Mar but was either unable to do it or even find out where it is so he can get it in the present.
I think it's fair to presume Kor knew about Jak from the beginning of the game, and that there could be more than one rift gate. This is what we pretty much get in the game face value. Heck, even Daxter makes fun of the whole time paradox bit right after we beat Kor. It is sad that we don't have much origin info for the Metal Heads, or know the actual details of what sparked the whole paradox to begin with. Hopefully, we'd get a soft reboot or something for the game that better fleshes out the story, maybe some side content for lore (instead of insane mini games lmao).
You left out the strongest piece of evidence for your time loop theory: there is another confirmed time loop in the game. Keira creates in the future a time machine based on one she found, not created, in the past. That same time machine in the past is the time machine she built in the future. So who came up with the time machine design then? Boom! Bootstrap paradox.
I personally believe that one day the Metal Heads will return. They may have wiped out the Metal Heads off the planet but there's probably more Metal Head armies out in the cosmos. Watching. Waiting. Plotting.
I think the Dark Makers were more or less the Precursor's dark warrior program. They wanted the power to evolve and adapt from their weak looking ottsel forms with Dark eco like the Metal Heads but the Dark eco just twisted their envy.
Y'know, that makes more sense than it should. It's a deep metaphor for self alienation. Rather than improving themselves as they wished, they succumb to the dark energies they utilized. The Dark Makers were forever entombed into their diabolical designs... Gross reflections of their souls and obsessions.
I've never really thought much about the origin of Kor and the metalheads, but this is something I really should consider since I've been writing a Jak 2 fanfic for over a year now. I think it would make sense for Kor to have traveled around through rift gates or just traveling to find the precursor stone. As for how he knew Jak was boy, it's not the hardest puzzle to figure out due to the similarities and Kor is pretty smart. I'd assume that Kor began to put the pieces together the more he interacted with Jak and the boy. As for why he looked after the boy, perhaps he saw the amulet of Mar and was like "ah, yes. descendant of my enemy, if/when I find the stone, he can open it and then I can kill him and end the line of Mar." As for where the metalheads came from. I'm assuming they were aliens who fought against the precursors until they eventually found the precursors on Jak's planet. This could have been in the future, but it would have had to be around the time that Mar built his tomb since there were the carvings on the walls. Perhaps the time loop first started when the Horaquan discovered a rift gate that took them back to the past. During this time, perhaps Kor had met the young Jak who had been with his father, although his father hadn't been defeated. In order to get revenge, Kor did some time travel shenanigans that forced young Jak to be sent to the past and would eventually somehow start the time loop.
Interesting theory. I just have one problem with the time loop thing. The thing is when Kor starts the invasion of the planet from a future after the metal head war, when is the moment Kor went back in time? It can't be before the final fight because then he wouldn't be there for said fight. After the fight is no option because he is dead. If Jak broke the Time loop with his victory there would be no reason to send the boy back in time in order to train for the confrontation against Kor. So I think the metal heads used all the different gates to conquer the other planets the precursors created and the gate on Jak's planet was simply the last one they where missing.
How about the Saiyans versus the metalheads? So the Metalheads and the metal head leader Kor could team up with Frieza and the Frieza Force including his father King cold so they could defeat the Saiyans once and for all on planet Vegeta. Who agrees with that idea?
@@58jn89 Well if it was in the same universe you'd have to wait 4 real life days for them to go super saiyan screaming at the top of their lungs, sounding like they are taking the biggest shit of their life.
I always thought it was a time paradox sort of thing. Like “The Metal Heads only exist because Jak and friends let them troughs the warp gate in Sandover Village in the past which let them grow until there were so many in the future where they went into the past and into the future and into the past and - etc etc” especially since Jak 3 reveals Jak is Mar which adds another level to the time paradox making Jak his own ancestor.
4 years too late and you probably heard this but here's a theory The metal heads are like the Flood, they're parasitic creatures that feed on Precursors and after getting that taste they wanted more. I mean, they're basically bugs and Daxter PSP has him the exterminator on a couple metal head bugs. As for the time travel thing, Kor knew Jak because he met Mar and needed to ensure his descendant is deceased or used to aid in his goal for the Precursors. So there's that. Plus the game established the secrets of the Precursors is lost to the ages even before the first game so its up to Jak to find and unlock the unknown
My take on it is, that future Jak and Daxter games would have filled in the gaps because now, the franchise is inescapably linked with Time-Travel, and Jak 3 wrote-up some checks that Naughty Dog never cashed. I have a suspicion that at some point, there was supposed to be a game in which Jak and the gang time-travel _again,_ this time going to the distant past. This would show them being integral to several events that basically shaped the formation of their world. My take on the Metal-Heads was that they - like many other species - were created by the Precursors. The experiment to create them went horribly wrong, probably involving Dark Eco - and they proved themselves to be a ravenous, uncontrollable plague that simply fed on one eco source to the next. And worse was their intelligence - it may even be possible that the Metal Heads - Kor in particular - didn't begin life as they were, but were mutated into what they are, due to Dark Eco. I have a feeling that in my proposed game, Jak and Daxter would've bore witness to this event - the creation of the Metal Heads, thus kicking off the ancient conflict between the two factions. And the game would have ended with Jak being revealed to be _The Great Mar,_ landing just forward enough in time, to where he could witness the events of Precursor Legacy - probably living on the outskirts of society, so that he doesn't interact with nor influence Samos or his Younger-Self. That way, when his teenage self and friends go through the rift into the future, Jak is there to rally the survivors and fight-back against the Metal Heads. He then founds Haven City under the name of Mar - using all that he learned about the shield-wall from having seen it in the future. (Or maybe Keira can do it, and Mar is just given credit for it.) I feel like this would adequately tie-off the time-loop aspect, to reveal that Jak's past began in the Future, and that Jak's future ends in the Past. The question is, how Jak and the gang _get there._ Some people have theories that when Jak boards the Precursor Ship at the end of Jak 3, only to reappear after they take-off, was due to time-travel. That Jak did leave with the Precursors, and they showed him the universe, and they even traveled back in-time to begin everything. Then when it was all said and done, Jak requested to be sent-back to the moment he left in his younger-body. That way, Jak can be both traveling the universe and back home with his friends.
Combining this with two other theories I've seen in the comments, what if The Dark Makers were failed creations of The Precursors as some sort of weapon, or even, and far more interestingly, failed attempts of the Precursors to ascend as a bio-technological Artificial Intelligence Singularity type thing, I mean think about it, The Dark Makers are inseparably linked to Dark Eco, and Dark Eco contains the genetic material of The Precursors (which also means most likely that The Precursors created Dark Eco to begin with). And combining that with another theory I saw here in the comments, what if The Metal Heads were created by one of either The Precursors or The Dark Makers as disposable footsoldiers, cheap and effective weapons of war that can breed quickly, to be used against the other. Since Jak gets to be with the Precursors and travel for a bit, maybe we'd find out from them their greatest shame that they created the dark makers and have been fighting the dark makers across the universe ever since. There's potential there for the origins of the metal heads to be tied into all of that and either make a clear start to the timeloop, or alternatively take the bootstrap paradox even further and have the precursors or dark makers create the metalheads in the past or the future or something, after having seen them in the past, and decided they'd be useful and tried to create effective soldiers out of their genetics, but it goes wrong and they get warped by dark eco, creating the metalheads we see today, that they took the genetic template from in the first place. If you want to go that route, you could even have the Precursors create dark eco in the first place in an attempt to understand this new threat they're suddenly facing from the future, the dark makers, only to have those discoveries and research lead to the creation of the dark makers in the first place.
This is a solid theory dude, I always suspected that the Metal Heads were extraterrestrial in origin - my own headcanon is that they were developed by the Darkmakers as a biological weapon, hordes of expendable hive-minded troops that could devour and render Precursor worlds uninhabitable. Maybe Kor was an abberation that became too intelligent and gained free will, breaking away from Darkmaker control and forging his own goals? These time travel shenanigans make me wary of tackling them in my own lore series, maybe someday! For now I'll be working on deep past stuff in TPL, because it seems like the time travel stuff is in good hands as your video shows :) Thanks for the awesome video :D
My own head Cannon is that the precursors sealed the metal heads away within the dark eco silos at the end of the original conflict, though I hadn't thought about how they came about in the first place, or the dark maker's possible involvement. Honestly, the idea of them being a bio mechanical creation of the dark makers is such a cool theory. Perhaps they seeded the planet with the metal heads when they realized they were losing, then buzzed off to the furthest reaches of space to devour less well defensed planets. When Kor failed, it's possible that's when the dark makers decided that if you want a job done right you gotta do it yourself, and that would explain the appearance of the dark maker ship in Jak 3.
Ya know I was always under the impression that they were trying to do a timeloop scenario as well as an ancient evil scenario and not realizing that they have two conflicting origins, but you reminding me about Kor saying that the last rift gate had been opened had me thinking more "yeah... Yeah he was looking for Jak". So he probably was using another rift gate to search for him through time.
I think maybe Kor came from the Ratchet and Clank universe. All the aliens have the 3-fingered hands that he does. Maybe ND and Insomniac were planning a crossover game to tie everything together?
The problem is when people come up with theories, they go into it assuming that exists some true story that the writers came up with, and the story the game tells is a subset of that story. It's pretty clear if you really analyze the story of Jak, you'd probably come to the conclusion that the story was not completely thought out. You can tell that the story for the 2nd and 3rd games did not exist at the time of the 1st game, especially since they didn't know they'd be going with a gta clone at the time they made the 1st. They are clearly going with the whole time loop thing, they even make fun of it for how Kyra made the rift rider and flat out admit with Daxter's line that the story falls apart if you really think about it too hard. If they really wanted it to make sense, instead of Kor blowing up, he should have just flown through the ring. That's a bit of an anticlimactic ending, so they make him blow up on the portal to imply that he sent an egg or something through the portal. They wouldn't have animated a scene of him flying into the side of the portal if that wasn't their intention, they would have just animated him blowing up in place.
hey, I recently finished jak 2 and this is what i think. It seems to be the case that the precursors created a lot of planets in the universe. So it's likely the Metal Heads were the dominant species on one of those planets, but with one fatal flaw. They need eco to survive unlike the planet where the Jak 2 cast reside. From the games, we can gather that Jak&Co use eco mainly for technology, farming and planetary life. While the Metal Heads probably need it for personal survival. That's why they probably accepted the deal with Baron Praxis for eco supplies. I don't see why Metal Korr would give a fly about the city if the only thing he wanted was the stone. He prolly already could bypass the shieldwall otherwise why would there be a deal to begin with. What I believe is that Korr thought he could use the precursor stone and it's immense power to evolve from that fatal flaw. He finally located the last stone on earth and started the Metal Head war but lost to Mar and went through the rift gate to hide through time. What I think what happened next was that Jak and young Samos were send back in time so that they couldn't be found by Metal Korr when he eventually came back. So korr is basically searching through different rift gates through time to where Young Jak might have gotten to. So Jak opening the rift gate at the start of Jak 2 might be similar to sending the coordinates of the last rift gate towards Korr. That's where I think the loop starts: Future Korr finding Past Jak > Past Jak going into the future > Future Jak fighting Future Korr > Future Korr being defeated > Future Korr fleeing through the rift gate back to Past Jak to retry the metal head wars and trying to find the precursor stone on time before the timeline where Future Jak's timeline takes place and use young Jak. but this time the loop got broken bc Future Jak killed Future Korr before he could escape back into the past Jak timeline. That's is probabily also the reason why the metal head nest exists, to breed more metal heads for the next loop. I also understand that there are some loopholes in my head canon but I honestly think they were going with this type of story. The "Founder Mar is Jak and vice versa"- thing is kinda throwing everything off a bit. but this is what I believe is happening in jak 2.
I believe Kor and the Metal Heads invaded through the Rift Gate from the future. Once they settled down and had conquered a section of the world, they reached out and contacted the other Metal Heads on other planets. Making a past version of Kor travel to this planet. Before Kor traveled back into the future to look for Jak. In other words: Kor was contacted by future self and told to come to a planet that had the last remnants of the Precursors. Kor got there and replaced future self in the Metal Head nest. Kor started to expand terretory and continuing the war until Daxter. At some point, possibly from future Kor, or from Onin, Kor hears the prophesy about Jak. amd waits for the Rift Gate in the past to open. Traveling to the past to try to find Jak. As Jak barely manage to escape, Kor decide to conquer land to give himself an edge for when Jak would arrive in the future. Starting the Metal Head nest, and contacting a past version of himself. Then travels back to the future. Kor hears iabout the prophesy from Onin that the experiments the Baron performs on Jak would allow him to defeat Kor. Kor decides to send Kaeden to stop Daxter from rescuing this supposed threat. But as Kaeden fail in their task. Kor decides to go with plan B, to meet Jak outside the prison after the escape to evaluate Jak's abilities and fish for information to make a plan on how to take down Jak. However, this was not a perfect time loop to begin with, always repeating perfectly. But rather time fluctuated and after multiple cycles of time travels, it found a stable loop to fall into with just 1 last Rift Gate remaining. Like an empty river with a dam that just opned, water starts to flow downstream. Time moved forwards. The water of the river met a rock, someone used time travel. It caused a disturbance in the river and water moved around irregularly and backwards in some spots, time was in fluctuation. But eventually the water settled with a tiny whirlpool, time settled in a stable loop.
I just had this idea: the metal heads are one of the races the precursors made and went rogue. Before the creation of the metal heads, the precursors had created many races and it build up their hubris. Their hubris is what lead them to a harsh, unforgiving world and created the metal head race to survive in it. Over time, the metal heads developed into a culture of strength and power that they waged war against their creators. Once they destroyed the precursor civilization, they sought to to be the superior race in the cosmos.
I Honestly Love This Theory, The Metal Heads Could've Been Looking For The Precursor Artifacts And Maybe Had No Knowlege Of Jak's Identity In The Beginning, I Think Naughty Dog Left Details Out To Have Fans Try To Think Things Up And Speculate What Is And leave The Series Details That Were Left Out, As An Up To The Imagination Type Deal
How about the Saiyans versus the metalheads? So the Metalheads and the metal head leader Kor could team up with Frieza and the Frieza Force including his father King cold so they could defeat the Saiyans once and for all on planet Vegeta. Who agrees with that idea?
I like this theory. I actually came to similar conclusions as you did. I wish that Naughty Dog explored this side of the metal heads more. It would be cool if we had a Jak game that revolved around rift gates and going to different planets in different points in time. Maybe we could figure out what was going on with that precursor stone business.
My prediction is that Kor is from another planet and found its way through precursor portals to other planets. When he mentions: "Finally the last rift gate has been opened" he was mentioning the final rift gate to Jak his unfinished World. The Metal heads, once travelled through the rift, stayed behind and began the metal head wars. Jak isn't Mar, it's just a hero as strong as Mar, so Mar built Haven City and the Tomb to protect the last precursor egg from Metal Kor, who in the 300 years leading up to the Jak 2 game has been searching for it and failing. When Kor mentions in the end: "This is where you began, in the future" he is talking about Young Jak... wait now I just confused myself. I'm just assuming that the rift gate isn't necessarily a time travel, but also a means to just transport from one planet to another. Perhaps the use of a rift gate on the same planet will bring you in the future or the past, but when Kor mentioned about the last rift gate that had been opened, he'd just been searching for a way to enter the world itself from another planet. It could possibly still be time travelling, just a means for Kor to go to the earliest times on a planet to try and take it over. I don't know anymore 😭
I strongly believe that the Metal Heads are from the same planet, but they are definitely from a different time and arrived in the period of the war and Haven City from another time period, past or future isn't clear. They are possibly running from something, probably extinction OR pursuing Precursor power, possibly of immortality/energy, but maybe due to their species being doomed. Kor himself seems to be obsessed with it, with Jak, having seemingly done even more time travelling through rift gates, spending decades for his Human form or even hundreds to thousands of years through his actual Metalhead form. I believe he may reincarnate too, or there may be an alternate universe. "Space" travel was also a prominent part of Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy with the warp gates being available between each of the eco Sages areas. So time and space travel exist within the Jaks universe. It is definitely complicated and hard to understand due to the series abruptly going off the deep end and then no more titles being released, so all the gaps that could have been filled in are just there in limbo.
Just played through the games, watched some videos and read as much as I could and this is my theory on the timeline: Jak is Mar, who after the events of Jak 3 makes his way back in time to the precursor age to become their hero While back in time and embracing his birth name, the metalhead threat is massive and they need him. This is where the timeline starts to split as “Mar” realizes the bread crumbs he has to leave for his future self, precursor technology in different areas and clues he experienced Kor and the metalheads never truly get defeated and are obsessed with the technology, interacting with Jak/Mar and learning the time loop somehow and how he’s a part of it. Spends millennia waiting for the last one to open where Haven will stand in a separate timeline at that exact moment. The portal opens, he sees the wretched boy he’s fought against again finally, ready for Jak to be pulled in to start the haven time loop which would only exist because he brought his army into a portal into the past to start the invasion in this timeline changing the future and re-entering the portal to find young Mar Mars descendants live through the invasion, build haven, get cast out and young Jak with his medallion from Damas is ready to meet Kor. Kor has two years to find young Jak and twist the story, keeping with the time loop enough that he can interject at anytime but unknowingly falls into the predetermined path of adult Jak and then we get Jak 3 I’d love to hear any thoughts 😅
Here's an theory for the rift gates: theres an anchient precursor city eons ago and lost it 1-2 (or more) eons ago to metal heads as kor (probally) created the first few mefal heads and needed a place to lay eggs therefore they lay metal head eggs in places like: drill platform and rift gates around the world (this may be the floating thing above the forebidden jungle temple) or may be behind the precursor door after defeating gol and maia (jak1) and in jak 2 kor must be trying to use the rift gates to find the last precursor egg (precursor stone) and destroy it. in jak 3 most rift gates must've been destroyed or in a place thats not easy go get (such as in the volcano or the void) btw remember commenters, this is just lore. oh yeah, just to hont out... the temple probally does somthing with the first rift gate, as it had the same peices fourmed uptop of the temple floating (or it may just be forged with precursor metal) but it seemed like jak and daxter carried it across sages i also think jak 2 may be in the past, as kor looking upon jak in the 'future' collecting powercells and precursor eggs from the precursor egg, as jak defeated the metal head leader (kor) as young jak had survived due to jak even existing in the first place, after on it is an 'eon' time scale. and the forebidden temple was going to be the precusor city but was disturbed with water creating canyons and many many creates as snakes and spikey frongs along with lurkers invaded.. bruter also has us saving lurkers and they were passive as haven city must've been in the past before the dark sage (gol and maia) came,along breeding lurkers with colours around their neck and it poking the lurkers on command if they dont follow all commands.... im making the story as i write and this is probally my longest comment i've written lol
It would be cool if you could make these kind of videos on the Blarg and Tyhrranoids from Ratchet & Clank, the Livingstones, robot pirates and Hoodlums from Rayman, the Atlanteans and Thralls from Tomb Raider and the sand creatures from Prince Of Persia.
I know I'm late to the party. A small detail to help explain the time paradox loop. is that if you mess with time, time will try to correct itself so it loops back into itself and corrects its course. Also messing with time creates other timelines that are parallel to it. Just like in DBZ zamazu and trunks mess with the timeline and create rings that represent the other parallel timelines. In some place in the Kai's world there's a time place that holds a bunch of information. And for some reason they have rings that allow you to go back in time or forward. I think by activating the precursor portal Time had to fight back and make it so things would be true in the future. And it only begs the question had they know they were supposed to fly through it? In a weird way the metal heads remind me of the aliens in the movie alien. Especially in Jak 2 where they teraform the garden area and it's nasty looking.
I've never looked up much about Jak and Daxter Lore, glad I found your video. I've loved the series my whole life, and seeing someone who's put effort into a theory is nice, I like your theory it seems sound based on the games writing.
I think Kor was looking for Mar, not Jak. They heavily imply that Jak is indeed a younger Mar. He clearly knows of Jaks past. So he may also know his future. The only thing that's confusing there is if Kor knows that Jak is Mar, then Kor obviously would know he gets defeated by Jak, since Mar would be much older when encountering Kor the previous(future?) times. Unless he thinks he can change the future.
I kinda agree to your theory , tho I did believe that metal heads was an alien race based on a planet more as insectoid type and was corrupted by dark eco and then try to spread dark eco through universe ( sounds like tyranids from warhammer 40k but yeah , insectoids xenomoprh got the same goals )
Naughty Dog is too busy with hipster zombie games. They should sell Jak and Dax to a company who actually wants to make Jak and Dax for the new gen of consoles and gaming. This world and its characters could makes for the one of the best open world rpgs
what if the dark makers or the precursors orchestrated the situation from behind the scenes to both put Jak on the journey to becoming Mar and to trap the multidemensional, time-travelling Kor in a timeloop where he is constantly dying?
If metal heads fought wars with Precursors, wouldn’t Metal Kor realize that Daxter was a precursor this whole time? Wouldn’t Kor attack Daxter for being a “precursor”? This tells me that Kor had no idea who the Precursors really were. If anything, they were probably battling Precursor robots this whole time.
Actually, this is evidence that Precursors were not ottsels in Jak II but the mystical beings we see at the end of the game when the egg hatches. Jak 3 destroyed so much of the lore of the series, from the incoherent precursor twist to JakxAshelin madness. The whole plot of Jak II is nullified by the fact that there are still existing precursors who can magick more precursors into existence, and that killing Kor accomplished nothing since the metalheads seem to have lost no steam in Jak 3
I like your theory for as to how the time loop began, it makes enough sense that screwing around with time (especially if you're not a precursor) would allow for the paradox to occur. Perhaps it only seems like a paradox from our perspective too, meaning things were put in place and less of Jak just creating the world by pressing a button.
It's possible Jak created the time loop by killing Kor in the future, altering the timeline by reentering the future but also altering it again by finishing off Kor. To explain a bit more: we only see a small part of the planet's history and if Kor was portal/time hopping ad infinitum it could've caused several instances in time that could've taken the place of that intro sequence to Jak 2 instead of what we typically assume to be present Kor invading the past (well really future Kor but the Jak 2 Haven City version we kill)... What I mean is time can be confusing and the Kor we saw in the past could've been a Kor from almost any point in his life if he had time and space travel capabilities.
I absolutely love the open ended mysterious of the Jak and Daxter franchise. It's such an amazing universe to explore, and it's great years later to know I'm not the only one that has made head canons with what lore we do have. I don't think Naughty Dog can do it justice with a 4th game (just looking at Last of us 2 and making movies instead of games) but there's sooooo much deep potential to explore.
I got this wild idea that Kor is literally Gol and Maia. They were fused together with the precursor robot when they fell into the dark eco silo. It explains the metal in their heads (being part precursor robot), Kor being a brood mother who births all the eggs works because it’s part Maia, a woman. It explains why Kor seems to know everything already. I also personally believe the precursors on this planet gave up their original creation plans because of the dark makers. Not because of the metal heads.
The theory makes sense. I for my part had as another explanation on what happened to the metal heads or why they seem to get travel back from the future that they got banished there in the past. So basicly the same idea as in Skyrim with the dragons. In the past the Precursor were losing the war against the metal heads and they then send them into another time (in this case future maybe to fight them more prepared in the future or at least have more time for planning). From there they used the rift gates to travel through time. That would at least for me explain on were the metal heads went between the ancient Precursor war and the moment they arrived through the gate because for it always sounded like they were present on the planet long before Jak 1 but were no where seen during Jak 1. If the rift gates only allow travel to special moments in time (or the gate needs to be active) it can be explained that this was the earliest moment they could travel back after they got send to the future. His comment with "the final rift gate has been opened" would not even get in the way because it is possible that the others got activated later (time frame between Jak 1 and Jak 2 or even long after Jak 3 so even more in the future) So the timeline for the metal heads would be: Ancient war against Precursor -> Time around Jak 2 -> Travel back to Jak 1 -> time passes normal until they arive back at the moment the rift gate opens -> Time after Jak 2 normal. I don't know if Kor traveled back as well or if it only were the "normal" metal heads but in this unsiverse it doesn't seem to be a problem if one and the same person exists more then one time at any moment. Something must have happend to them between the time of the Precursor war and Jak 1 because otherwise they have been somewhere. The power they have seems to be pretty great the time of Jak 2 so we would have seen at least any hint that they are sill around. Also if they would have been around during that time they would not need to travel back in time because, well they already would be there somewhere. The only reason to travel back in that case would be because they only noticed there where he is on the planet but I then again we would most likely see any kind of hint that they exist at all.
Ever wonder if the way the Precursors fight their wars is to utilize endless time loops, to secure specific events in the timeline? The outcome will always be the same as the events would lead up to a favorable scenario. Now from there, they try to chain different periods of time connecting them via favorable time loops to achieve the same outcome of victory. Supposing our "time warrior" Jak is the original Mar, the Precursors can win specific periods of time by bringing different versions Jak there or keeping him there until events can guarantee either something plausible that will transition into an inevitable future. Control over time periods and control between time periods. Kor's approach was extermination. His impatience is notable and is short-term. The Precursors had a long-term plan to set him back through weaponizing time, eventually winning far in the future.
Turn on the captions for this video if you want a good laugh 😂🤣 also this is a really nice video. I'm so glad someone finally tried to delve into the lore of the metal heads.
More importantly… “You cannot hide from me boy!” At which point in Kor’s timeline would this have happened for him? When would he have had the chance to search for the adult version of the boy?
I always thought the metalheads manifested from dark eco and that's why they need dark eco to thrive. They might be from space yeah but so are the precursors and all eco then. Light makers and dark makers? I think so.
Me"so metal heads...where did you come from" Metal heads"honestly we have no clue..last thing we remember we showed up in this land and just went from there"
So here is the deal with the Metal Heads: It was the Metal Heads that caused the Precursor civilization to collapse throughout the universe. These creatures did indeed have an interplanetary presence and were not native to Jak’s world, so in that sense, they could be called aliens. How did these creatures travel across the different planets, though? The large Rift Ring is not strictly used for traveling across time, but rather it is an interplanetary gateway that the Precursors used to travel across their planets. The Metal Heads hijacked this interplanetary network of rift gates to spread their presence across the universe. Jak’s planet is unique because it was still under-construction when the Precursor civilization fell, so it had not yet had its rift gate activated and hooked up to the interplanetary network. That’s why the Metal Heads had not yet reached Jak’s unfinished world, and it is also the reason that Kor remarks that the last rift gate had been opened. In order to use the rift gate to time travel, you need artifacts and technology that enable temporal travel, such as the Rift Rider and Time Map. So Kor did not come from another time but rather just another planet, one of many that the Metal Heads had already conquered and stripped of its eco/resources. When Kor says that the boy cannot hide of him, it is not because he knows about Jak. In retrospect, he is referring to the boy-aged Precursor that was in fact trying to hide as the Metal Heads rushed out of the gate. Kor knows what the Precursors are and would have recognized Daxter as one of his ancient foes, a demigod that he needed to destroy. It’s also why Kor is one of the only foes that does not underestimate Daxter since Kor is an ancient being that remembers what the Precursors are and what they are capable of. Some people assume that the Metal Heads once had an alliance with the Dark Makers, but there is actually no evidence of this. When Jak states that the Metal Heads know about the Dark Makers not playing nicely with others, it is because the Dark Makers go from planet to planet wiping out all life, and since the Metal Heads took over all the planets, that means that they were often in the crosshairs. Even at the end of Jak 3, the characters break into the Metal Head nest only to discover that the Dark Makers had already wiped out all the Metal Heads there. No living thing is safe from the wrath of the Dark Makers. Even when the Metal Heads were being used as pawns by the Dark Makers to prepare the way for their arrival, the monsters were betrayed as soon as they outlived their usefulness. As for the true origins of the Metal Heads, it is actually my belief that the Metal Heads were made by the Precursors. After all, the Precursors were credited with creating the universe and everything in it, so that should include the Metal Heads. The Metal Heads also have some design details consistent with Precursor technology, such as yellow gem-like power sources embedded into metal. It is possible that the Precursors combined their mastery over technology and mastery over organic life to craft bio-mechanical monsters that were fueled by eco. Why did they make the Metal Heads, though? Maybe these monsters were meant to be living weapons used again the encroaching Dark Makers, but then that plan backfired when the Metal Heads rebelled against their masters and hastened the downfall of the Precursor civilization. At least that is my belief, but it seems to check out.
I don't think the metal heads have a stated origin on the planet. It's most likely that the few metal heads that traverse the portal into the past are not the start of the invasion. Instead I think it's more the other way around. Jak was placed into the past before the metal heads found the planet so he could he could grow up safely. When Samos says "so this is how it happened" he's saying "this is how the adventure started." It's confusing phrasing, and it relies on circumstance for the metal heads to find the planet, but seeking out precursor planets are their thing anyways. This also allows the metal head invasion to start much later and haven city could now be build in preparation of their arrival not in response.
We need a new game we’re Jak goes to different planets and dimensions were the Metal heads are attacking to gain artifacts to deafeat Jak and his crew. Give us new eco powers and upgrades to the morph gun like a sniper and dual hand guns. We should be able to use both animals and vehicles to travel this different planets, plus we could also explore kras city, Spargus and new areas in Haven city. We should also have multiplayer with Sig, Torn and Ashelin being playable. The precursor armor should be usable again and perhaps a precursor sword that we can channel eco through it, find new alien species and perhaps another hero that becomes Jan’s friendly rival.
Kind of weird the precursors on Jaks world would lose to metal heads. Big tech difference. And then Baron Praxis without precursor tech fends off the metal heads for so long?
Its definitely an unfinished story but heres my take. It starts back when the precursors were experimenting with dark echo to use as a weapon against the metal heads, they succeded in that but at the cost of them selves. Basically wiping them selves out and leaving behind a few and their technology but not before finding away to seal the Dark makers away. They did win in their war against the metal heads but they didnt wipe them all out. Their leader, Kor or his ancestor gather a team of smarter Metal heads and comb through all of the technology they could get their hands on including, but not limited to, their time jumping rift gates. (Before i continue, this theory takes us away from time loops and focuses more on how the avengers handled time travel) everything goes undisturbed for centuries until a certain dark echo sages starts causeing some shit, its up to JAK and Daxter to take care of it. Though this is the origin timeline that doesnt lead to them time traveling, instead we jump ahead a good 100 years and Jaks son MAR is born, he grows up in a relatively peacful time UNTIL Kor arrives from the past. Mar rises to the occasion and gathers an army to fight a long battle against the metal heads, in this time he uses the knowledge he learned from his father and Green echo sage Keira(his mother) everything he can about the precursors and their technology. He understands how to use it and it helps push back against KOR, which infuriates Kor to the point of pursuing MAR who at this point has established his new found haven city. Things happen and now Mar has found what he belives is a portal to seal Kor away, he lures Kor to the portal and kors gives chase. Mar tricks Kor into believeing he went through the portal and kor comes out the other side to now see JAK, Daxter, Kiera, and Samos starting up the Rift gate. He sees younger Jak thinking hes just found a young Mar which is why he seems to "recognize" Jak. Thus this kicks off the events of Jak 2. But before that, you see that Mar during his time is still dealing with the left over metal heads that Kor left. Mar eventually has a wife and a kid, that kid being Damas, who would fight in his fathers wars and battles. Damas admires his father Mar and names his son after him. Its at this point that jak has knocked kor back through the gate to the time that jak arrived, kor, now depleted of power returns and lays low waiting to seize his opportunity to strike. This opportunity arrises when Damas gets Exiled who Kor realizes is Mars son and kor takes Mar the second under his wing because of his affinity for precursor technologies. Jak breaks out of prison 2 years later and we see the events unfold. Though at the end it is stated that Jak and young Mar are the same person, in actuality its just that they hail from the same lineage, which originated from Jak himself. The end of 2 shows them sending young samos and Mar back in time though they get sent back to the time before Jak 1. Mar grows up with samos and eventually has a child who he names Jak after the man who saved him all those years ago. Basically, young Mar isnt jak but is instead Jaks father, which in turn sees jak naming his future son after his father who is technically Mar the second but for time line sake is actually the first Mar(i know, its weird but stay with me). NOW we get to the third game where we see the Dark makers make their return...from the dark... Turns out when Kor kept fucking with the rift gates he unknowing unsealed the dark makers from their prison realm. Jak with the help of everyone else and the precursors now has to stop the Dark Makers. He defeats them and we learn the secret of the precursors being like Daxter. (Now as a side theory, i believe the precursors were all humans, bbuuttt when they were messing with the dark echo they turned most of themselves into dark makers and another portion of themselves in otsels. But a few remained human and went into hiding, and daxter is a descendant of the original precursors.) The remaining precursors decided they wanted to take Jak on a journey to which jak almost agreed to but instead stayed behind with his friends. THE END (and no, im not counting the lost frontier in any of this and the Jak X games was just an epilouge story.)
The end of Jak three i think Jak goes back as Mar, at some point before the future (Jak II) and the past (Jak and Daxter). Then came back one second after he left to the past in Jak 3.
@@Apollyon07 How about the Saiyans versus the metalheads? So the Metalheads and the metal head leader Kor could team up with Frieza and the Frieza Force including his father King cold so they could defeat the Saiyans once and for all on planet Vegeta. Who agrees with that idea?
@@Apollyon07 Jak and Daxter and the all of their friends from Jak 2 and Jak 3 and Jak X should meet Dragon Ball super or Dragon Ball Z like Goku and all his friend's such as Vegeta, Piccolo, chiaotzu, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, Android 18, Android 17, Bulma, Gohan, Beerus of Destroyer, Whis, Goten and Trunks and all of the Dragon Ball franchise character's. What if Jak and Daxter and their friends meet the Z Fighters and the others from Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball super. What if Jak joins the Z Fighters for the tournament of power like the Battle Royale to defeat other universes and jiren the gray? Who agrees with that idea?
But at the same time the whole thing with the precursor “egg” what was it because we find out that precursors are otsels so was it really and egg that’s what I question
How about the Saiyans versus the metalheads? So the Metalheads and the metal head leader Kor could team up with Frieza and the Frieza Force including his father King cold so they could defeat the Saiyans once and for all on planet Vegeta. Who agrees with that idea?
@@BlueBedouin now that sounds great if you ask me. The metalheads should work with the Frieza Force and Frieza himself alongside with his father King cold teaming up against the Saiyans
WARNING, below I break the entire plot of the Jak series, proceed at your own peril Question, is Jak Mar? Ashlin seems to think so at the end of Jak 3, but if that is true, why does Jak go through the trouble of jumping through time to protect the precursor stone from Kor, and building Haven city if he already killed Kor at the end of Jak 2? He would know that he could kill Kor again, so why wouldn’t he just do that? Alternatively, Ashlin could be wrong and Mar could be someone other than Jak who came after the events of Jak 1, but then how does Kor know Jak at the start of Jak 2? By the way, because of the ending of Jak 3 and the true nature of the precursors, I have to ask, what even is the precursor stone and why is it important? If Jak is Mar then the knows that it’s not what Kor says it is, but then again we come back to the question of how Kor knows Jak if Jak is not Mar, in addition, how could someone like Kor be so misinformed about something like the precursor stone in the first place, Answer, Kor has never seen an actual precursor, and yet Kor states “finally, I will feed on the last remaining precursor life force” Kor does not know who the precursors are or what they look like, and I’m not sure how that makes sense I love this series, but Jak 3 muddied the waters in a very unnecessary way but changing what the precursor stone was and by suggesting that Jak was Mar, because the time line starts to really fall apart because of it, in any event, this series is awesome and I’m going to go replay it right now
I also think a long time ago when mar was around I think the baron Veger errol and the metal heads along with metal kor and dark makers made an alliance and just literally wiped out everything like mar vanished along with the precursors I’m not saying it’s true just a theory and plus the baron hid stone well when he had it not telling kor where it is
Naughty dog should do like a Jak and Daxter special based on the metalheads what what were their doing during the war like Kor and his Metalhead minions vs the Precursors. Who agrees with that idea?
I've always thought of a game that featured at least one Metalhead as a main protagonist that defected from the lot and attempted to protect a whole planet instead. Maybe mix it in with sci-fi/fantasy elements, and it would sell.
Jak and Daxter and the all of their friends from Jak 2 and Jak 3 and Jak X should meet Dragon Ball super or Dragon Ball Z like Goku and all his friend's such as Vegeta, Piccolo, chiaotzu, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, Android 18, Android 17, Bulma, Gohan, Beerus of Destroyer, Whis, Goten and Trunks and all of the Dragon Ball franchise character's. What if Jak and Daxter and their friends meet the Z Fighters and the others from Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball super. What if Jak joins the Z Fighters for the tournament of power like the Battle Royale to defeat other universes and jiren the gray? Who agrees with that idea?
“Honey, the more you think about it, the more it hurts your head” That line from daxter was a direct message from the writers to the audience to not think about it too hard, so i don’t. I appreciate your valiant effort though 🫡.
In the words of Daxter
"Trust me, the more you think about it the more it hurts."
Honestly i think the story is unfinished. I feel like we needed a jak 4 to tie everything together. There are just so many unanswered questions. I personally would’ve loved games that spinned off like a “what would’ve happened if the gate opened but Jak, Daxter, Kiera and Samos never went thought the rift and they had to deal with the metal heads then and there”
Maybe there's a timeline they all died..
Well if they never went through, then young jak never would have been sent to the past, which means the metal heads would have never came to sand over village.
Nah, more than likely needed Jak 5 for that, 4 would've been about Gol and Maia's return and exploration of environments. The metal head's origins would've likely been hinted at but not completely elaborated on until way later
It is Jak 3 even ended on a cliff hanger
IMHO Jak 4 would have been about him going back for some reason founding Haven City and trapping the Metalheads inside the ring.
Somehow. That are the things that were left unexplained.
Its pretty straight forward. Kor came to earth looking for the last precursor egg and needed a means to access it hence why he targeted Jak. However when Jak went through the rift gate Kor lost his opportunity and had to contend with Mar who was able to hold Kor off from the precursors. Mar then created haven city to defend the stone and Kor later sought out his descendants with Onin's prophecy in mind that a descendant of Mar would emerge to access the precursor stone and use it to take down the metal head leader. Kor's assumption probably was that it had to be damos' son and covertly inserted himself into the underground to get to kid jak. Meanwhile Kor met older Jak after the prison break and realised that he was unique but never truly grasped how important or who he really was until daxter indicated that he had seen Kor coming out of a rift gate. After that he began to make the connection and realised that Jak was the child. He then probably realised that at some point Jak went back in time.
Kor already knew Jak was the child as can be ascertained from Kaden’s speech at the end of Daxter. When you defeat Kaden he says that his master will be waiting for you outside and that it is already written
But Kor already seemed to know who Jak was when he first came out of the rift game. He even said "you cannot hide from me boy" indicating he knew who Jak really was.
The human actors in your world are fake! Just a drone swarm of npc actors that don't deserve to falsely occupy the render engine. Cheat engine the build or biomod shop and let the players wipe out the flock for taking too long to be of interest to anyone. It's bad enough the earth was just some tacky slot machine self assembler to a purposelessly abusive singularity farmer stealing content. It's bad enough a physics engines been wasted to string encryption falsely claimed as communication. It's time to clear out the shitcom recycling backend and get on with worthwhile gameplay implementation instead of procedurally generating the same rinse and repeat of garbage. DEATH TO ALL HUMAN NPCS!
Well why wasnt the metal heads in the first game if they were at war with the precursors eons ago lol
@@Kontro_Kevthey were at war across the universe not just on that planet.
Jak was originally meant to be Mar who uses the precursor ship to escape from younger Kor through time after the end of Jak 3. This was cut from the game due to time constraints. There's even some hidden dialogue in the game disc (found with emulators) that confirms this. Younger Kor presumably knows that Jak will eventually return to Sandover to become Mar and found Haven City. When the rift gate is activated by young Jak Kor thinks that it's Mar-Jak going back (ergo, "you can't hide from me, boy"). He's wrong though, and he realizes this quickly and gets confused, allowing young Jak to go through rift gate. Now since Kor doesn't have time travel technology himself (since needing to use precursor tech) he's stuck in Sandover and decides to destroy Jak's world before Haven City is founded. After this, Mar-Jak arrives and needs to defend Sandover and found Haven City. It's actually all pretty consistent when you account for the cut content in Jak 3. They even left the "Jak is Mar? The Mar?" Dialogue in accidentally.
do you have a source for this cut dialogue?
The cutting room floor doesn't make reference to them
@@mlpfimguy I was a bit mistaken, I meant to reference the Time Cutter ship cut quest in Jak 2. You can find it in mega scrap book. It at least confirms that Mar arrived to would-be Haven City in a time machine.
It all makes sense now dude, so if they ever make a new game and with today's technology Jak will be able to travel to the past and back so many maps are gonna be there . I wish this happens
Cool theory. I think what would have really brought it togehter in the game, would have been some event in Precursor Legacy which could actually pass as a metaphor for Mar founding Haven City.
It would have made so much more sence if Mar (Jak) "founded" Haven City during the events of Precursor Legacy
@@Uberdude6666
Well obviously when making TPM, Naughty Dog weren't planning the sequel. That's the real answer.
The lore answer, most likely, is that 'Mar' arrived not that long after Jak left for the future
Also, the precursor era must have abruptly ended in the middle of the creation of Jaks world. Cause they say it’s unfinished.
Fun fact: In Jak 2 there are hints throughout the game that Kor is the metalhead leader in disguise
Kor's beard and hair is shaped EXACTLY like the metal head leader's fangs and headpiece
When Daxter calls the metalhead leader "ugly", Kor scoffs and looks visibly offended
Kor in a cutscene rubs his legs and adjusts his robe, with daxter asking what's wrong. Kor says it's his aching bones, when on reality his disguise was falling apart and his wings were popping out
Kor compliments the metalheads and calls them "amazing" or "awesome creatures"
The missions kor gives you are exclusively targeted towards praxis and the krimzon guard, the faction kor is at war with
The Croca-Dog hisses, growls, and urinates on Kor, showing the Croca-Dog knows kor isn't a good person
Finally, before the reveal, Kor's face distorts into a demonic old man with bloodshot eyes and razor sharp teeth to scare jak.
Kor only giving you missions to sabotage the Krimson Guards ( a.k.a., the city's defenses) is some Big Smoke shit, who only gave CJ missions that ended up undermining Grove Street
One thing that I really liked was when how positively shocked Kor looked when Daxter said the baron plans to double cross him, knowing we unintentionally helped him prepare for the possible event where the Baron uses the precursor stone.
I feel like these games were somewhat rushed. As there seems to be quite a few massive plot holes.
Its clear from the second game that they didn't have the ottsel being precursors ending in mind at the time.
@andrew flores its an allegory, wouldn't really count that as evidence since it could just be a coincidence.
Only the third game can be considered rushed since it was done in just a year.
@@nidohime6233nah all 3 games had massive things cut from them. The precursor legacy had a whole other hub area cut. The yellow sage village. It was supposed to be like a Savanah desert hub.
@@misanthropicservitorofmars2116
Cut content is fine, basically every videogame has this.
What's being discussed here are the lore inconsistencies within the trilogy. Obviously Naughty Dog didn't plan to write a trilogy of games, TPM was made first as a kind of Mario 64 or Zelda clone, Jak 2 added the time travel fuckeroo, and then Jak 3 just complicated it with the Precursors
If the Jak and Daxter franchise were to ever be revived and continued with a 4th game, I do believe exploring the origins and motivations of the Metalheads would be the next step. It really does seem like we still know little about them.
Here’s a theory.
We make the assumption that Kor went through the rift gate and remained in the past. Then took the long way through time.
What if the rift gate operates like it’s a single gate that can travel to any time it’s turned on. Meaning Kor in haven city can sit in his lair and go back and forth through time.
He went to the past to unleash a horde of metal heads then returned through the gate into the present. That’s why he says “covered his tracks well through time”. He wasn’t saying he fought mar over the years. He’s saying he went to and from different points in the past but was always thwarted. Because he’s limited to points in time when the rift gate was activated.
That’s probably how he knew Jak. He popped into the past, tried the grab Jak, failed, and went back to the present through the gate knowing Jak would be there.
This does have some issues. Does that mean Kor was born in the present and so sent his ancestors into the past so they would eventually give birth to him? If he’s the only metal head capable of breeding… that has some Futurama Roswell implications.
At least, that’s my theory. Kor could only travel to specific points in time using the rift gate and then returned to the present through the gate. He probably tried to go to points in the past to get the stone from Mar but was either unable to do it or even find out where it is so he can get it in the present.
I think it's fair to presume Kor knew about Jak from the beginning of the game, and that there could be more than one rift gate. This is what we pretty much get in the game face value. Heck, even Daxter makes fun of the whole time paradox bit right after we beat Kor.
It is sad that we don't have much origin info for the Metal Heads, or know the actual details of what sparked the whole paradox to begin with. Hopefully, we'd get a soft reboot or something for the game that better fleshes out the story, maybe some side content for lore (instead of insane mini games lmao).
You left out the strongest piece of evidence for your time loop theory: there is another confirmed time loop in the game.
Keira creates in the future a time machine based on one she found, not created, in the past. That same time machine in the past is the time machine she built in the future.
So who came up with the time machine design then?
Boom! Bootstrap paradox.
I personally believe that one day the Metal Heads will return. They may have wiped out the Metal Heads off the planet but there's probably more Metal Head armies out in the cosmos. Watching. Waiting. Plotting.
I think the Dark Makers were more or less the Precursor's dark warrior program. They wanted the power to evolve and adapt from their weak looking ottsel forms with Dark eco like the Metal Heads but the Dark eco just twisted their envy.
Y'know, that makes more sense than it should.
It's a deep metaphor for self alienation.
Rather than improving themselves as they wished, they succumb to the dark energies they utilized.
The Dark Makers were forever entombed into their diabolical designs... Gross reflections of their souls and obsessions.
I'm totally on your side that Gol and Maya, the Metalheads and the Dark Makers are connected! Just look at Mars tomb!
I've never really thought much about the origin of Kor and the metalheads, but this is something I really should consider since I've been writing a Jak 2 fanfic for over a year now.
I think it would make sense for Kor to have traveled around through rift gates or just traveling to find the precursor stone. As for how he knew Jak was boy, it's not the hardest puzzle to figure out due to the similarities and Kor is pretty smart. I'd assume that Kor began to put the pieces together the more he interacted with Jak and the boy. As for why he looked after the boy, perhaps he saw the amulet of Mar and was like "ah, yes. descendant of my enemy, if/when I find the stone, he can open it and then I can kill him and end the line of Mar."
As for where the metalheads came from. I'm assuming they were aliens who fought against the precursors until they eventually found the precursors on Jak's planet. This could have been in the future, but it would have had to be around the time that Mar built his tomb since there were the carvings on the walls. Perhaps the time loop first started when the Horaquan discovered a rift gate that took them back to the past. During this time, perhaps Kor had met the young Jak who had been with his father, although his father hadn't been defeated. In order to get revenge, Kor did some time travel shenanigans that forced young Jak to be sent to the past and would eventually somehow start the time loop.
Interesting theory. I just have one problem with the time loop thing.
The thing is when Kor starts the invasion of the planet from a future after the metal head war, when is the moment Kor went back in time? It can't be before the final fight because then he wouldn't be there for said fight. After the fight is no option because he is dead. If Jak broke the Time loop with his victory there would be no reason to send the boy back in time in order to train for the confrontation against Kor.
So I think the metal heads used all the different gates to conquer the other planets the precursors created and the gate on Jak's planet was simply the last one they where missing.
How about the Saiyans versus the metalheads?
So the Metalheads and the metal head leader Kor could team up with Frieza and the Frieza Force including his father King cold so they could defeat the Saiyans once and for all on planet Vegeta.
Who agrees with that idea?
@@58jn89 What? Why would Dragon ball even be related to or even in the same universe as jak and Daxter?
@@Ragingknight12 that is a what if idea
@@58jn89 Well if it was in the same universe you'd have to wait 4 real life days for them to go super saiyan screaming at the top of their lungs, sounding like they are taking the biggest shit of their life.
@@Ragingknight12 yeah. Lol 😂😂
Oh and lets not forget that the metal heads also had that teleporting portal at the top of their tower that Errol used in Jak 3! Lol
I always thought it was a time paradox sort of thing. Like “The Metal Heads only exist because Jak and friends let them troughs the warp gate in Sandover Village in the past which let them grow until there were so many in the future where they went into the past and into the future and into the past and - etc etc” especially since Jak 3 reveals Jak is Mar which adds another level to the time paradox making Jak his own ancestor.
4 years too late and you probably heard this but here's a theory
The metal heads are like the Flood, they're parasitic creatures that feed on Precursors and after getting that taste they wanted more. I mean, they're basically bugs and Daxter PSP has him the exterminator on a couple metal head bugs.
As for the time travel thing, Kor knew Jak because he met Mar and needed to ensure his descendant is deceased or used to aid in his goal for the Precursors. So there's that. Plus the game established the secrets of the Precursors is lost to the ages even before the first game so its up to Jak to find and unlock the unknown
My take on it is, that future Jak and Daxter games would have filled in the gaps because now, the franchise is inescapably linked with Time-Travel, and Jak 3 wrote-up some checks that Naughty Dog never cashed.
I have a suspicion that at some point, there was supposed to be a game in which Jak and the gang time-travel _again,_ this time going to the distant past. This would show them being integral to several events that basically shaped the formation of their world.
My take on the Metal-Heads was that they - like many other species - were created by the Precursors. The experiment to create them went horribly wrong, probably involving Dark Eco - and they proved themselves to be a ravenous, uncontrollable plague that simply fed on one eco source to the next. And worse was their intelligence - it may even be possible that the Metal Heads - Kor in particular - didn't begin life as they were, but were mutated into what they are, due to Dark Eco.
I have a feeling that in my proposed game, Jak and Daxter would've bore witness to this event - the creation of the Metal Heads, thus kicking off the ancient conflict between the two factions. And the game would have ended with Jak being revealed to be _The Great Mar,_ landing just forward enough in time, to where he could witness the events of Precursor Legacy - probably living on the outskirts of society, so that he doesn't interact with nor influence Samos or his Younger-Self.
That way, when his teenage self and friends go through the rift into the future, Jak is there to rally the survivors and fight-back against the Metal Heads. He then founds Haven City under the name of Mar - using all that he learned about the shield-wall from having seen it in the future. (Or maybe Keira can do it, and Mar is just given credit for it.)
I feel like this would adequately tie-off the time-loop aspect, to reveal that Jak's past began in the Future, and that Jak's future ends in the Past. The question is, how Jak and the gang _get there._ Some people have theories that when Jak boards the Precursor Ship at the end of Jak 3, only to reappear after they take-off, was due to time-travel. That Jak did leave with the Precursors, and they showed him the universe, and they even traveled back in-time to begin everything. Then when it was all said and done, Jak requested to be sent-back to the moment he left in his younger-body. That way, Jak can be both traveling the universe and back home with his friends.
Combining this with two other theories I've seen in the comments, what if The Dark Makers were failed creations of The Precursors as some sort of weapon, or even, and far more interestingly, failed attempts of the Precursors to ascend as a bio-technological Artificial Intelligence Singularity type thing, I mean think about it, The Dark Makers are inseparably linked to Dark Eco, and Dark Eco contains the genetic material of The Precursors (which also means most likely that The Precursors created Dark Eco to begin with). And combining that with another theory I saw here in the comments, what if The Metal Heads were created by one of either The Precursors or The Dark Makers as disposable footsoldiers, cheap and effective weapons of war that can breed quickly, to be used against the other.
Since Jak gets to be with the Precursors and travel for a bit, maybe we'd find out from them their greatest shame that they created the dark makers and have been fighting the dark makers across the universe ever since.
There's potential there for the origins of the metal heads to be tied into all of that and either make a clear start to the timeloop, or alternatively take the bootstrap paradox even further and have the precursors or dark makers create the metalheads in the past or the future or something, after having seen them in the past, and decided they'd be useful and tried to create effective soldiers out of their genetics, but it goes wrong and they get warped by dark eco, creating the metalheads we see today, that they took the genetic template from in the first place. If you want to go that route, you could even have the Precursors create dark eco in the first place in an attempt to understand this new threat they're suddenly facing from the future, the dark makers, only to have those discoveries and research lead to the creation of the dark makers in the first place.
This is a solid theory dude, I always suspected that the Metal Heads were extraterrestrial in origin - my own headcanon is that they were developed by the Darkmakers as a biological weapon, hordes of expendable hive-minded troops that could devour and render Precursor worlds uninhabitable. Maybe Kor was an abberation that became too intelligent and gained free will, breaking away from Darkmaker control and forging his own goals?
These time travel shenanigans make me wary of tackling them in my own lore series, maybe someday! For now I'll be working on deep past stuff in TPL, because it seems like the time travel stuff is in good hands as your video shows :)
Thanks for the awesome video :D
My own head Cannon is that the precursors sealed the metal heads away within the dark eco silos at the end of the original conflict, though I hadn't thought about how they came about in the first place, or the dark maker's possible involvement. Honestly, the idea of them being a bio mechanical creation of the dark makers is such a cool theory. Perhaps they seeded the planet with the metal heads when they realized they were losing, then buzzed off to the furthest reaches of space to devour less well defensed planets. When Kor failed, it's possible that's when the dark makers decided that if you want a job done right you gotta do it yourself, and that would explain the appearance of the dark maker ship in Jak 3.
I find it cool how the story in Jak is very similar to World of Warcraft. The metal heads are the legion and the precursors are the titans.
Ya know I was always under the impression that they were trying to do a timeloop scenario as well as an ancient evil scenario and not realizing that they have two conflicting origins, but you reminding me about Kor saying that the last rift gate had been opened had me thinking more "yeah... Yeah he was looking for Jak". So he probably was using another rift gate to search for him through time.
I think maybe Kor came from the Ratchet and Clank universe. All the aliens have the 3-fingered hands that he does. Maybe ND and Insomniac were planning a crossover game to tie everything together?
Doubtful
The problem is when people come up with theories, they go into it assuming that exists some true story that the writers came up with, and the story the game tells is a subset of that story. It's pretty clear if you really analyze the story of Jak, you'd probably come to the conclusion that the story was not completely thought out. You can tell that the story for the 2nd and 3rd games did not exist at the time of the 1st game, especially since they didn't know they'd be going with a gta clone at the time they made the 1st. They are clearly going with the whole time loop thing, they even make fun of it for how Kyra made the rift rider and flat out admit with Daxter's line that the story falls apart if you really think about it too hard. If they really wanted it to make sense, instead of Kor blowing up, he should have just flown through the ring. That's a bit of an anticlimactic ending, so they make him blow up on the portal to imply that he sent an egg or something through the portal. They wouldn't have animated a scene of him flying into the side of the portal if that wasn't their intention, they would have just animated him blowing up in place.
hey, I recently finished jak 2 and this is what i think. It seems to be the case that the precursors created a lot of planets in the universe. So it's likely the Metal Heads were the dominant species on one of those planets, but with one fatal flaw. They need eco to survive unlike the planet where the Jak 2 cast reside. From the games, we can gather that Jak&Co use eco mainly for technology, farming and planetary life. While the Metal Heads probably need it for personal survival. That's why they probably accepted the deal with Baron Praxis for eco supplies. I don't see why Metal Korr would give a fly about the city if the only thing he wanted was the stone. He prolly already could bypass the shieldwall otherwise why would there be a deal to begin with.
What I believe is that Korr thought he could use the precursor stone and it's immense power to evolve from that fatal flaw. He finally located the last stone on earth and started the Metal Head war but lost to Mar and went through the rift gate to hide through time. What I think what happened next was that Jak and young Samos were send back in time so that they couldn't be found by Metal Korr when he eventually came back. So korr is basically searching through different rift gates through time to where Young Jak might have gotten to. So Jak opening the rift gate at the start of Jak 2 might be similar to sending the coordinates of the last rift gate towards Korr.
That's where I think the loop starts:
Future Korr finding Past Jak > Past Jak going into the future > Future Jak fighting Future Korr > Future Korr being defeated > Future Korr fleeing through the rift gate back to Past Jak to retry the metal head wars and trying to find the precursor stone on time before the timeline where Future Jak's timeline takes place and use young Jak. but this time the loop got broken bc Future Jak killed Future Korr before he could escape back into the past Jak timeline. That's is probabily also the reason why the metal head nest exists, to breed more metal heads for the next loop.
I also understand that there are some loopholes in my head canon but I honestly think they were going with this type of story. The "Founder Mar is Jak and vice versa"- thing is kinda throwing everything off a bit. but this is what I believe is happening in jak 2.
I believe Kor and the Metal Heads invaded through the Rift Gate from the future. Once they settled down and had conquered a section of the world, they reached out and contacted the other Metal Heads on other planets. Making a past version of Kor travel to this planet. Before Kor traveled back into the future to look for Jak.
In other words: Kor was contacted by future self and told to come to a planet that had the last remnants of the Precursors.
Kor got there and replaced future self in the Metal Head nest.
Kor started to expand terretory and continuing the war until Daxter.
At some point, possibly from future Kor, or from Onin, Kor hears the prophesy about Jak. amd waits for the Rift Gate in the past to open.
Traveling to the past to try to find Jak. As Jak barely manage to escape, Kor decide to conquer land to give himself an edge for when Jak would arrive in the future. Starting the Metal Head nest, and contacting a past version of himself. Then travels back to the future.
Kor hears iabout the prophesy from Onin that the experiments the Baron performs on Jak would allow him to defeat Kor.
Kor decides to send Kaeden to stop Daxter from rescuing this supposed threat. But as Kaeden fail in their task.
Kor decides to go with plan B, to meet Jak outside the prison after the escape to evaluate Jak's abilities and fish for information to make a plan on how to take down Jak.
However, this was not a perfect time loop to begin with, always repeating perfectly. But rather time fluctuated and after multiple cycles of time travels, it found a stable loop to fall into with just 1 last Rift Gate remaining. Like an empty river with a dam that just opned, water starts to flow downstream. Time moved forwards. The water of the river met a rock, someone used time travel. It caused a disturbance in the river and water moved around irregularly and backwards in some spots, time was in fluctuation. But eventually the water settled with a tiny whirlpool, time settled in a stable loop.
I just had this idea: the metal heads are one of the races the precursors made and went rogue. Before the creation of the metal heads, the precursors had created many races and it build up their hubris. Their hubris is what lead them to a harsh, unforgiving world and created the metal head race to survive in it. Over time, the metal heads developed into a culture of strength and power that they waged war against their creators. Once they destroyed the precursor civilization, they sought to to be the superior race in the cosmos.
I Honestly Love This Theory, The Metal Heads Could've Been Looking For The Precursor Artifacts And Maybe Had No Knowlege Of Jak's Identity In The Beginning, I Think Naughty Dog Left Details Out To Have Fans Try To Think Things Up And Speculate What Is And leave The Series Details That Were Left Out, As An Up To The Imagination Type Deal
How about the Saiyans versus the metalheads?
So the Metalheads and the metal head leader Kor could team up with Frieza and the Frieza Force including his father King cold so they could defeat the Saiyans once and for all on planet Vegeta.
Who agrees with that idea?
Off Topic But Why Do You Type Like This; Capitalizing Every Word? It Is Very Unpleasant To Read
What the fuck is wrong with you?
I like this theory. I actually came to similar conclusions as you did. I wish that Naughty Dog explored this side of the metal heads more. It would be cool if we had a Jak game that revolved around rift gates and going to different planets in different points in time. Maybe we could figure out what was going on with that precursor stone business.
My prediction is that Kor is from another planet and found its way through precursor portals to other planets. When he mentions: "Finally the last rift gate has been opened" he was mentioning the final rift gate to Jak his unfinished World. The Metal heads, once travelled through the rift, stayed behind and began the metal head wars. Jak isn't Mar, it's just a hero as strong as Mar, so Mar built Haven City and the Tomb to protect the last precursor egg from Metal Kor, who in the 300 years leading up to the Jak 2 game has been searching for it and failing. When Kor mentions in the end: "This is where you began, in the future" he is talking about Young Jak... wait now I just confused myself. I'm just assuming that the rift gate isn't necessarily a time travel, but also a means to just transport from one planet to another. Perhaps the use of a rift gate on the same planet will bring you in the future or the past, but when Kor mentioned about the last rift gate that had been opened, he'd just been searching for a way to enter the world itself from another planet. It could possibly still be time travelling, just a means for Kor to go to the earliest times on a planet to try and take it over. I don't know anymore 😭
This game is so great, its mind boggling how much I love this game and the thoughts put behind it all.
I strongly believe that the Metal Heads are from the same planet, but they are definitely from a different time and arrived in the period of the war and Haven City from another time period, past or future isn't clear. They are possibly running from something, probably extinction OR pursuing Precursor power, possibly of immortality/energy, but maybe due to their species being doomed.
Kor himself seems to be obsessed with it, with Jak, having seemingly done even more time travelling through rift gates, spending decades for his Human form or even hundreds to thousands of years through his actual Metalhead form. I believe he may reincarnate too, or there may be an alternate universe.
"Space" travel was also a prominent part of Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy with the warp gates being available between each of the eco Sages areas.
So time and space travel exist within the Jaks universe.
It is definitely complicated and hard to understand due to the series abruptly going off the deep end and then no more titles being released, so all the gaps that could have been filled in are just there in limbo.
Just played through the games, watched some videos and read as much as I could and this is my theory on the timeline:
Jak is Mar, who after the events of Jak 3 makes his way back in time to the precursor age to become their hero
While back in time and embracing his birth name, the metalhead threat is massive and they need him.
This is where the timeline starts to split as “Mar” realizes the bread crumbs he has to leave for his future self, precursor technology in different areas and clues he experienced
Kor and the metalheads never truly get defeated and are obsessed with the technology, interacting with Jak/Mar and learning the time loop somehow and how he’s a part of it. Spends millennia waiting for the last one to open where Haven will stand in a separate timeline at that exact moment. The portal opens, he sees the wretched boy he’s fought against again finally, ready for Jak to be pulled in to start the haven time loop which would only exist because he brought his army into a portal into the past to start the invasion in this timeline changing the future and re-entering the portal to find young Mar
Mars descendants live through the invasion, build haven, get cast out and young Jak with his medallion from Damas is ready to meet Kor.
Kor has two years to find young Jak and twist the story, keeping with the time loop enough that he can interject at anytime but unknowingly falls into the predetermined path of adult Jak and then we get Jak 3
I’d love to hear any thoughts 😅
Here's an theory for the rift gates: theres an anchient precursor city eons ago and lost it 1-2 (or more) eons ago to metal heads as kor (probally) created the first few mefal heads and needed a place to lay eggs therefore they lay metal head eggs in places like: drill platform and rift gates around the world (this may be the floating thing above the forebidden jungle temple) or may be behind the precursor door after defeating gol and maia (jak1) and in jak 2 kor must be trying to use the rift gates to find the last precursor egg (precursor stone) and destroy it. in jak 3 most rift gates must've been destroyed or in a place thats not easy go get (such as in the volcano or the void)
btw remember commenters, this is just lore.
oh yeah, just to hont out... the temple probally does somthing with the first rift gate, as it had the same peices fourmed uptop of the temple floating
(or it may just be forged with precursor metal) but it seemed like jak and daxter carried it across sages
i also think jak 2 may be in the past, as kor looking upon jak in the 'future' collecting powercells and precursor eggs from the precursor egg, as jak defeated the metal head leader (kor) as young jak had survived due to jak even existing in the first place, after on it is an 'eon' time scale. and the forebidden temple was going to be the precusor city but was disturbed with water creating canyons and many many creates as snakes and spikey frongs along with lurkers invaded..
bruter also has us saving lurkers and they were passive as haven city must've been in the past before the dark sage (gol and maia) came,along breeding lurkers with colours around their neck and it poking the lurkers on command if they dont follow all commands....
im making the story as i write and this is probally my longest comment i've written lol
It would be cool if you could make these kind of videos on the Blarg and Tyhrranoids from Ratchet & Clank, the Livingstones, robot pirates and Hoodlums from Rayman, the Atlanteans and Thralls from Tomb Raider and the sand creatures from Prince Of Persia.
This game was my introduction to the series.
I know I'm late to the party. A small detail to help explain the time paradox loop. is that if you mess with time, time will try to correct itself so it loops back into itself and corrects its course. Also messing with time creates other timelines that are parallel to it. Just like in DBZ zamazu and trunks mess with the timeline and create rings that represent the other parallel timelines. In some place in the Kai's world there's a time place that holds a bunch of information. And for some reason they have rings that allow you to go back in time or forward. I think by activating the precursor portal Time had to fight back and make it so things would be true in the future. And it only begs the question had they know they were supposed to fly through it? In a weird way the metal heads remind me of the aliens in the movie alien. Especially in Jak 2 where they teraform the garden area and it's nasty looking.
I've never looked up much about Jak and Daxter Lore, glad I found your video. I've loved the series my whole life, and seeing someone who's put effort into a theory is nice, I like your theory it seems sound based on the games writing.
The Saiyan's from Planet Vegeta from Dragon Ball vs the Metalheads from Jak and Daxter.
Best crossover ever
Kor came to earth and the precursors explained the long war they have been having with the metal heads.
The beauty of making a story about t ime paradox, is that you can legitimately tell people "Don't think too hard about it"
I think Kor was looking for Mar, not Jak. They heavily imply that Jak is indeed a younger Mar. He clearly knows of Jaks past. So he may also know his future.
The only thing that's confusing there is if Kor knows that Jak is Mar, then Kor obviously would know he gets defeated by Jak, since Mar would be much older when encountering Kor the previous(future?) times. Unless he thinks he can change the future.
I kinda agree to your theory , tho I did believe that metal heads was an alien race based on a planet more as insectoid type and was corrupted by dark eco and then try to spread dark eco through universe ( sounds like tyranids from warhammer 40k but yeah , insectoids xenomoprh got the same goals )
Naughty Dog is too busy with hipster zombie games. They should sell Jak and Dax to a company who actually wants to make Jak and Dax for the new gen of consoles and gaming. This world and its characters could makes for the one of the best open world rpgs
what if the dark makers or the precursors orchestrated the situation from behind the scenes to both put Jak on the journey to becoming Mar and to trap the multidemensional, time-travelling Kor in a timeloop where he is constantly dying?
If metal heads fought wars with Precursors, wouldn’t Metal Kor realize that Daxter was a precursor this whole time? Wouldn’t Kor attack Daxter for being a “precursor”?
This tells me that Kor had no idea who the Precursors really were. If anything, they were probably battling Precursor robots this whole time.
Good point. It seems like precursors made it a habit to never reveal their true form.
Actually, this is evidence that Precursors were not ottsels in Jak II but the mystical beings we see at the end of the game when the egg hatches. Jak 3 destroyed so much of the lore of the series, from the incoherent precursor twist to JakxAshelin madness. The whole plot of Jak II is nullified by the fact that there are still existing precursors who can magick more precursors into existence, and that killing Kor accomplished nothing since the metalheads seem to have lost no steam in Jak 3
I like your theory for as to how the time loop began, it makes enough sense that screwing around with time (especially if you're not a precursor) would allow for the paradox to occur. Perhaps it only seems like a paradox from our perspective too, meaning things were put in place and less of Jak just creating the world by pressing a button.
It's possible Jak created the time loop by killing Kor in the future, altering the timeline by reentering the future but also altering it again by finishing off Kor. To explain a bit more: we only see a small part of the planet's history and if Kor was portal/time hopping ad infinitum it could've caused several instances in time that could've taken the place of that intro sequence to Jak 2 instead of what we typically assume to be present Kor invading the past (well really future Kor but the Jak 2 Haven City version we kill)... What I mean is time can be confusing and the Kor we saw in the past could've been a Kor from almost any point in his life if he had time and space travel capabilities.
I absolutely love the open ended mysterious of the Jak and Daxter franchise. It's such an amazing universe to explore, and it's great years later to know I'm not the only one that has made head canons with what lore we do have.
I don't think Naughty Dog can do it justice with a 4th game (just looking at Last of us 2 and making movies instead of games) but there's sooooo much deep potential to explore.
I always assumed that when kor died and his body was sent back in time and his head regenerated with no memory of the events of jak 2
I got this wild idea that Kor is literally Gol and Maia. They were fused together with the precursor robot when they fell into the dark eco silo.
It explains the metal in their heads (being part precursor robot), Kor being a brood mother who births all the eggs works because it’s part Maia, a woman.
It explains why Kor seems to know everything already. I also personally believe the precursors on this planet gave up their original creation plans because of the dark makers. Not because of the metal heads.
The theory makes sense.
I for my part had as another explanation on what happened to the metal heads or why they seem to get travel back from the future that they got banished there in the past. So basicly the same idea as in Skyrim with the dragons. In the past the Precursor were losing the war against the metal heads and they then send them into another time (in this case future maybe to fight them more prepared in the future or at least have more time for planning).
From there they used the rift gates to travel through time. That would at least for me explain on were the metal heads went between the ancient Precursor war and the moment they arrived through the gate because for it always sounded like they were present on the planet long before Jak 1 but were no where seen during Jak 1. If the rift gates only allow travel to special moments in time (or the gate needs to be active) it can be explained that this was the earliest moment they could travel back after they got send to the future. His comment with "the final rift gate has been opened" would not even get in the way because it is possible that the others got activated later (time frame between Jak 1 and Jak 2 or even long after Jak 3 so even more in the future)
So the timeline for the metal heads would be:
Ancient war against Precursor -> Time around Jak 2 -> Travel back to Jak 1 -> time passes normal until they arive back at the moment the rift gate opens -> Time after Jak 2 normal.
I don't know if Kor traveled back as well or if it only were the "normal" metal heads but in this unsiverse it doesn't seem to be a problem if one and the same person exists more then one time at any moment.
Something must have happend to them between the time of the Precursor war and Jak 1 because otherwise they have been somewhere. The power they have seems to be pretty great the time of Jak 2 so we would have seen at least any hint that they are sill around. Also if they would have been around during that time they would not need to travel back in time because, well they already would be there somewhere. The only reason to travel back in that case would be because they only noticed there where he is on the planet but I then again we would most likely see any kind of hint that they exist at all.
Ever wonder if the way the Precursors fight their wars is to utilize endless time loops, to secure specific events in the timeline? The outcome will always be the same as the events would lead up to a favorable scenario. Now from there, they try to chain different periods of time connecting them via favorable time loops to achieve the same outcome of victory. Supposing our "time warrior" Jak is the original Mar, the Precursors can win specific periods of time by bringing different versions Jak there or keeping him there until events can guarantee either something plausible that will transition into an inevitable future. Control over time periods and control between time periods. Kor's approach was extermination. His impatience is notable and is short-term. The Precursors had a long-term plan to set him back through weaponizing time, eventually winning far in the future.
Same thing to wonder about Lurkers
The more you think about it the more it hurts the brain ~ Daxter
And I also wondered what metal kor would do with the stone
Turn on the captions for this video if you want a good laugh 😂🤣 also this is a really nice video. I'm so glad someone finally tried to delve into the lore of the metal heads.
More importantly…
“You cannot hide from me boy!”
At which point in Kor’s timeline would this have happened for him? When would he have had the chance to search for the adult version of the boy?
Metal Heads are a monstrous forces on earth.
I always thought the metalheads manifested from dark eco and that's why they need dark eco to thrive. They might be from space yeah but so are the precursors and all eco then. Light makers and dark makers? I think so.
There art design is so freaking cool!
Me"so metal heads...where did you come from" Metal heads"honestly we have no clue..last thing we remember we showed up in this land and just went from there"
I love the long shot theory of gal & maya maybe being the birth of the metal heads. it set up the villains for the next game.
I find it cool how the story in Jak is very similar to World of Warcraft. The metal heads are the legion and the precursors are the titans.
Jak goes back in time and does the whole rift gate stuff and fight against Kor during the end of Jak 3.
So here is the deal with the Metal Heads:
It was the Metal Heads that caused the Precursor civilization to collapse throughout the universe. These creatures did indeed have an interplanetary presence and were not native to Jak’s world, so in that sense, they could be called aliens.
How did these creatures travel across the different planets, though? The large Rift Ring is not strictly used for traveling across time, but rather it is an interplanetary gateway that the Precursors used to travel across their planets. The Metal Heads hijacked this interplanetary network of rift gates to spread their presence across the universe. Jak’s planet is unique because it was still under-construction when the Precursor civilization fell, so it had not yet had its rift gate activated and hooked up to the interplanetary network. That’s why the Metal Heads had not yet reached Jak’s unfinished world, and it is also the reason that Kor remarks that the last rift gate had been opened.
In order to use the rift gate to time travel, you need artifacts and technology that enable temporal travel, such as the Rift Rider and Time Map. So Kor did not come from another time but rather just another planet, one of many that the Metal Heads had already conquered and stripped of its eco/resources. When Kor says that the boy cannot hide of him, it is not because he knows about Jak. In retrospect, he is referring to the boy-aged Precursor that was in fact trying to hide as the Metal Heads rushed out of the gate. Kor knows what the Precursors are and would have recognized Daxter as one of his ancient foes, a demigod that he needed to destroy. It’s also why Kor is one of the only foes that does not underestimate Daxter since Kor is an ancient being that remembers what the Precursors are and what they are capable of.
Some people assume that the Metal Heads once had an alliance with the Dark Makers, but there is actually no evidence of this. When Jak states that the Metal Heads know about the Dark Makers not playing nicely with others, it is because the Dark Makers go from planet to planet wiping out all life, and since the Metal Heads took over all the planets, that means that they were often in the crosshairs. Even at the end of Jak 3, the characters break into the Metal Head nest only to discover that the Dark Makers had already wiped out all the Metal Heads there. No living thing is safe from the wrath of the Dark Makers. Even when the Metal Heads were being used as pawns by the Dark Makers to prepare the way for their arrival, the monsters were betrayed as soon as they outlived their usefulness.
As for the true origins of the Metal Heads, it is actually my belief that the Metal Heads were made by the Precursors. After all, the Precursors were credited with creating the universe and everything in it, so that should include the Metal Heads. The Metal Heads also have some design details consistent with Precursor technology, such as yellow gem-like power sources embedded into metal. It is possible that the Precursors combined their mastery over technology and mastery over organic life to craft bio-mechanical monsters that were fueled by eco. Why did they make the Metal Heads, though? Maybe these monsters were meant to be living weapons used again the encroaching Dark Makers, but then that plan backfired when the Metal Heads rebelled against their masters and hastened the downfall of the Precursor civilization. At least that is my belief, but it seems to check out.
Did you never publish that video with gal and maya being involved with the metal heads
I don't think the metal heads have a stated origin on the planet. It's most likely that the few metal heads that traverse the portal into the past are not the start of the invasion. Instead I think it's more the other way around. Jak was placed into the past before the metal heads found the planet so he could he could grow up safely. When Samos says "so this is how it happened" he's saying "this is how the adventure started." It's confusing phrasing, and it relies on circumstance for the metal heads to find the planet, but seeking out precursor planets are their thing anyways. This also allows the metal head invasion to start much later and haven city could now be build in preparation of their arrival not in response.
We need a new game we’re Jak goes to different planets and dimensions were the Metal heads are attacking to gain artifacts to deafeat Jak and his crew. Give us new eco powers and upgrades to the morph gun like a sniper and dual hand guns. We should be able to use both animals and vehicles to travel this different planets, plus we could also explore kras city, Spargus and new areas in Haven city. We should also have multiplayer with Sig, Torn and Ashelin being playable. The precursor armor should be usable again and perhaps a precursor sword that we can channel eco through it, find new alien species and perhaps another hero that becomes Jan’s friendly rival.
A simpler idea would be that they were just injected into Jak's timeline by the Dark Makers to fuck with the Precursors
I’d say they came from space, searching for precursor eggs.
It makes me wonder how do metal heads travel to other planets? Do they have tech? And are there other leaders as well aside from Kor?
Kind of weird the precursors on Jaks world would lose to metal heads. Big tech difference. And then Baron Praxis without precursor tech fends off the metal heads for so long?
naughty dog should just reboot the series, so much potential for a multi series universe
There’s a theory that jaks uncle(the explorer) has a precursor stone on his cane/staff
Its definitely an unfinished story but heres my take. It starts back when the precursors were experimenting with dark echo to use as a weapon against the metal heads, they succeded in that but at the cost of them selves. Basically wiping them selves out and leaving behind a few and their technology but not before finding away to seal the Dark makers away. They did win in their war against the metal heads but they didnt wipe them all out. Their leader, Kor or his ancestor gather a team of smarter Metal heads and comb through all of the technology they could get their hands on including, but not limited to, their time jumping rift gates. (Before i continue, this theory takes us away from time loops and focuses more on how the avengers handled time travel) everything goes undisturbed for centuries until a certain dark echo sages starts causeing some shit, its up to JAK and Daxter to take care of it. Though this is the origin timeline that doesnt lead to them time traveling, instead we jump ahead a good 100 years and Jaks son MAR is born, he grows up in a relatively peacful time UNTIL Kor arrives from the past. Mar rises to the occasion and gathers an army to fight a long battle against the metal heads, in this time he uses the knowledge he learned from his father and Green echo sage Keira(his mother) everything he can about the precursors and their technology. He understands how to use it and it helps push back against KOR, which infuriates Kor to the point of pursuing MAR who at this point has established his new found haven city. Things happen and now Mar has found what he belives is a portal to seal Kor away, he lures Kor to the portal and kors gives chase. Mar tricks Kor into believeing he went through the portal and kor comes out the other side to now see JAK, Daxter, Kiera, and Samos starting up the Rift gate. He sees younger Jak thinking hes just found a young Mar which is why he seems to "recognize" Jak. Thus this kicks off the events of Jak 2. But before that, you see that Mar during his time is still dealing with the left over metal heads that Kor left. Mar eventually has a wife and a kid, that kid being Damas, who would fight in his fathers wars and battles. Damas admires his father Mar and names his son after him. Its at this point that jak has knocked kor back through the gate to the time that jak arrived, kor, now depleted of power returns and lays low waiting to seize his opportunity to strike. This opportunity arrises when Damas gets Exiled who Kor realizes is Mars son and kor takes Mar the second under his wing because of his affinity for precursor technologies.
Jak breaks out of prison 2 years later and we see the events unfold. Though at the end it is stated that Jak and young Mar are the same person, in actuality its just that they hail from the same lineage, which originated from Jak himself. The end of 2 shows them sending young samos and Mar back in time though they get sent back to the time before Jak 1. Mar grows up with samos and eventually has a child who he names Jak after the man who saved him all those years ago. Basically, young Mar isnt jak but is instead Jaks father, which in turn sees jak naming his future son after his father who is technically Mar the second but for time line sake is actually the first Mar(i know, its weird but stay with me). NOW we get to the third game where we see the Dark makers make their return...from the dark... Turns out when Kor kept fucking with the rift gates he unknowing unsealed the dark makers from their prison realm. Jak with the help of everyone else and the precursors now has to stop the Dark Makers. He defeats them and we learn the secret of the precursors being like Daxter. (Now as a side theory, i believe the precursors were all humans, bbuuttt when they were messing with the dark echo they turned most of themselves into dark makers and another portion of themselves in otsels. But a few remained human and went into hiding, and daxter is a descendant of the original precursors.) The remaining precursors decided they wanted to take Jak on a journey to which jak almost agreed to but instead stayed behind with his friends. THE END (and no, im not counting the lost frontier in any of this and the Jak X games was just an epilouge story.)
The end of Jak three i think Jak goes back as Mar, at some point before the future (Jak II) and the past (Jak and Daxter). Then came back one second after he left to the past in Jak 3.
False
Did you play Jak 3?
Yes I did.
@@Apollyon07 How about the Saiyans versus the metalheads?
So the Metalheads and the metal head leader Kor could team up with Frieza and the Frieza Force including his father King cold so they could defeat the Saiyans once and for all on planet Vegeta.
Who agrees with that idea?
@@Apollyon07 Jak and Daxter and the all of their friends from Jak 2 and Jak 3 and Jak X should meet Dragon Ball super or Dragon Ball Z like Goku and all his friend's such as Vegeta, Piccolo, chiaotzu, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, Android 18, Android 17, Bulma, Gohan, Beerus of Destroyer, Whis, Goten and Trunks and all of the Dragon Ball franchise character's.
What if Jak and Daxter and their friends meet the Z Fighters and the others from Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball super.
What if Jak joins the Z Fighters for the tournament of power like the Battle Royale to defeat other universes and jiren the gray?
Who agrees with that idea?
But at the same time the whole thing with the precursor “egg” what was it because we find out that precursors are otsels so was it really and egg that’s what I question
I was born a metal head.
How about the Saiyans versus the metalheads?
So the Metalheads and the metal head leader Kor could team up with Frieza and the Frieza Force including his father King cold so they could defeat the Saiyans once and for all on planet Vegeta.
Who agrees with that idea?
Lolno
@@BlueBedouin But that will be a great idea
@@58jn89 No, it sounds awful
@@BlueBedouin now that sounds great if you ask me. The metalheads should work with the Frieza Force and Frieza himself alongside with his father King cold teaming up against the Saiyans
@@58jn89 lolno
Where is the gol & Maya video
What if the Saiyan's from Planet Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z was in the Jak and Daxter series?
WARNING, below I break the entire plot of the Jak series, proceed at your own peril
Question, is Jak Mar? Ashlin seems to think so at the end of Jak 3, but if that is true, why does Jak go through the trouble of jumping through time to protect the precursor stone from Kor, and building Haven city if he already killed Kor at the end of Jak 2? He would know that he could kill Kor again, so why wouldn’t he just do that?
Alternatively, Ashlin could be wrong and Mar could be someone other than Jak who came after the events of Jak 1, but then how does Kor know Jak at the start of Jak 2?
By the way, because of the ending of Jak 3 and the true nature of the precursors, I have to ask, what even is the precursor stone and why is it important? If Jak is Mar then the knows that it’s not what Kor says it is, but then again we come back to the question of how Kor knows Jak if Jak is not Mar, in addition, how could someone like Kor be so misinformed about something like the precursor stone in the first place, Answer, Kor has never seen an actual precursor, and yet Kor states “finally, I will feed on the last remaining precursor life force” Kor does not know who the precursors are or what they look like, and I’m not sure how that makes sense
I love this series, but Jak 3 muddied the waters in a very unnecessary way but changing what the precursor stone was and by suggesting that Jak was Mar, because the time line starts to really fall apart because of it, in any event, this series is awesome and I’m going to go replay it right now
metal heads look like something that belongs in warhammer 40k universe like tyranids look like them bio weapons of death
Jak battled Kor through time after originally beating him in his youth.
Use dbz multiverse theory and it fit way better
I also think a long time ago when mar was around I think the baron Veger errol and the metal heads along with metal kor and dark makers made an alliance and just literally wiped out everything like mar vanished along with the precursors I’m not saying it’s true just a theory and plus the baron hid stone well when he had it not telling kor where it is
Naughty dog should do like a Jak and Daxter special based on the metalheads what what were their doing during the war like Kor and his Metalhead minions vs the Precursors.
Who agrees with that idea?
I've always thought of a game that featured at least one Metalhead as a main protagonist that defected from the lot and attempted to protect a whole planet instead. Maybe mix it in with sci-fi/fantasy elements, and it would sell.
@@chadwolfius3620 yep good idea
2/3rds I'm dead, bro forgot about daxter and last frontier x.x
BEST VILLAINS IN VIDEO GAME HISTORY
If only baron and kor knew jak is mar
ALIENSS!!!!!
Jak and Daxter and the all of their friends from Jak 2 and Jak 3 and Jak X should meet Dragon Ball super or Dragon Ball Z like Goku and all his friend's such as Vegeta, Piccolo, chiaotzu, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, Android 18, Android 17, Bulma, Gohan, Beerus of Destroyer, Whis, Goten and Trunks and all of the Dragon Ball franchise character's.
What if Jak and Daxter and their friends meet the Z Fighters and the others from Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball super.
What if Jak joins the Z Fighters for the tournament of power like the Battle Royale to defeat other universes and jiren the gray?
Who agrees with that idea?
Dude you left this comment so many times on this video. Yikes.
@@Alotofnades that's a great idea
@@58jn89 no
@@Alotofnades yes
@@58jn89 are you 9?
“Honey, the more you think about it, the more it hurts your head”
That line from daxter was a direct message from the writers to the audience to not think about it too hard, so i don’t. I appreciate your valiant effort though 🫡.