Why Dark Jak Was Underdeveloped and Underutilized
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- Опубліковано 20 лип 2024
- While Dark Jak was an interesting spin to the franchise, Naughty Dog left out a lot that could have made this transformation unique but with the lack of dynamic gameplay to compliment Jaks new Dark Ability, was it really considered underdeveloped and possibly underutilized? Well, let's talk about it.
- Ігри
I always knew Dark Jak was heavily underutilized during gameplay, but I didn't even think of the story, and as I was watching this, I couldn't think of a single time, aside from the very start, where Dark Jak existing was integral to the plot. Like you said, more scripted events would have been awesome, and would add another dynamic to the story, having Dark Jak literally killing him. Interestingly, on the Japanese cover of Jak 2, there's a blurb for the game on the front cover in English, saying that using Dark Jak would leave Jak with only one hit point left when he comes out of it. I guess that was an early idea for Dark Jak, but they later decided against it. Another thing you suggested was having some sort of environmental obstacles. That was actually used, although briefly, in Jak 3, with the Dark Punch, to destroy some walls and such.
Anyway, I really liked the video, keep it up man
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed the video! One thing is, though Dark Jak did have some inclusion to obstacles in Jak 3, I feel that if Naughty Dog would have emphasized more with the abilities and the environments in Jak 2, perhaps we would have seen more in the third installment.
Anyways. Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts man!
@@martheforgottenone9575 Yeah, that's another good point. This video could apply almost entirely to Light Jak as well. Although there was a bit more story relevance, gameplay wise, Light Jak was HEAVILY underutilized. I mean, the time slow power was only used once, the level you got it. And the shield was pretty useless as well.
No worries man, always love to see a quality Jak discussion
@@martheforgottenone9575 Here's hoping for a remake in the future! And one that does it justice, doesn't change the overall artistic style (but rather improves the fidelity, kind of like Zelda Wind Waker HD), and perhaps improves mechanics and what you mention here. Hopefully if they do, they can get the original voice actors for Jak and Daxter, along with the rerst of the Krew.
@@martheforgottenone9575 I mean don't get me wrong, but I'm in love with Dark Eco!
Have you seen the GMV of Jak And Daxter made by Think86200? Its one of my all time favorite music videos of the game its really good!!!
Dark Jak is my favorite addition in Jak II. Whenever I think of Jak II, I always think of Dark Jak due to its heavy promotional advertisement: he’s featured on the logo, he appears as the save file icon on the PS2 browser menu, and he’s prominently included in nearly _all_ of Jak II’s promotional artwork, as well as being featured on the game disc and Japanese cover art.
Aside from being the center of attention during the opening cutscene and first confrontation with the Krimzon Guards, it’s a shame Dark Jak doesn’t affect the rest of the story, aside from being alluded to by a few characters like Erol and Kiera. I think Jak’s internal struggle with his dark powers should’ve been the _central_ plot of Jak II, pushing other plot elements like the Metal Head war to the backseat.
I think Dark Jak would’ve benefited from being forced on you during specific segments instead of being an optional ability, like how it was forced during the first battle against the Krimzon Guards. It would’ve helped showcase the idea of Jak being unable to control his dark form by spontaneously transforming into it. I think the bosses should’ve been designed to allow Dark Jak to be able to handle them and encourage players to use him instead of the Morph Gun, rather than only letting the Morph Gun be the main line of offense whereas Dark Jak offers little to no benefit.
For the story, I think Dark Jak was a big missed opportunity. The idea I thought up involves Dark Jak damaging the bonds Jak has with his allies such as Samos and Kiera, where they’d be too scared of Dark Jak to the point of refusing to accompany themselves with Jak, causing Jak to look at himself and wonder how he’d be able to cure the Dark Eco infection so that he can regain their trust. During Jak II’s development, transforming into Dark Jak would’ve left the player with one health point remaining, which could be written into the story as a means of showcasing Dark Jak _literally_ killing Jak himself at a slow pace, as each transformation leaves Jak in unbearable pain. Dark Jak’s presence messes with Jak’s conscience and overall well-being, as it’s gradually destroying his body. While searching for help, the player would be directed to the Oracle, who is the only one capable of helping Jak fight back against his dark form by granting him dark powers. With each dark power Jak obtains, he gains more and more control over Dark Jak, eventually being able to completely withstand it. Instead of being an optional side-quest like it currently is, visiting the Oracle to gain dark powers is a mandatory part of the game. Dark Jak ruining Jak’s life also gives more weight to his desire for revenge against Baron Praxis, as _he’s_ the reason this is all happening in the first place.
The final battle against Metal Kor would be a gauntlet-type of boss that displays Jak’s success in gaining control over Dark Jak, showcasing his mastery of its destructive powers. The battle would begin with enemy waves that Jak disposes of, until he confronts Metal Kor, whom only Dark Jak is effective against. After Dark Jak kills Metal Kor, Jak realizes he’s now gained complete control over Dark Jak, feeling more at ease with himself. No longer being a threat, Jak’s friends reconcile with him.
I want that!
I love that!
Naughty Dog needs your ideas for the remake !
@@chamzatchonkarov2558 Thanks! I feel that Dark Jak really should’ve been the major central focus of Jak II. All of my ideas stem from that single thought.
@@kingpikmin6361 I agree with you, I felt he was missed a lot in Jak II.
Hoping these games revives in the future with good ideas like yours.
Dark Jak was perfect, the ONLY thing I would of changed would be Dark Jak being needed in certain missions, but I do love the fact that they gave us 100% control of when we do transform
Sameee!!
I always thought a great plot for Jak 4 would be the dark eco slowly killing Jak since he's now older and the dark eco is starting to eat away at the light eco the precursors gave him, so him and daxter go on a journey to find a way to get rid of the dark eco for good. Over the course of the game, Jak would get sicker and sicker while his appearance alters a little like him getting gray hair strands or his skin getting a little veiny. Dark Jak would still be accessible but drains health when transformed. I'd also have jak have scripted coughing events where he collapses and coughs up dark eco liquid, just to show how bad the dark eco experiments have destroyed his body. I'd also have a new Dark ability called Dark Overload. Jak needs a full dark eco gauge and by holding down L2, Jak grabs his chest in pain and lets out a giant scream and instead of turning into Dark Jak, he overloads himself with dark eco and it explodes, destroying everything and one hitting any enemy within a large radius. It would be much stronger than the Dark Bomb, however it can only be used once as it completely drains the dark eco gauge, and also sends jak into a coughing fit after for a few seconds, leaving him vulnerable if any enemies are out of the Dark Overload's radius
No
@@rasundesilva6088 Yes
Ah Yes, Jak and Daxter Solid 4, guns of the Patriots
U remind me Arthur from Rdr2
Well it's mentioned in Jak 2 that the dark eco inside him would eventually kill him. I like the idea of his health being drained for bonus damage, but the dark jak mechanic would have needed more refining. Would've been nice if the dash attacks were so unpredictable and would throw you off ledges and shit.
Nice video man!
My opinions (combined a bit with yours) on how they could improve Dark Jak:
Story wise:
1)More scripted events that triggers Dark Jak automatically. (like you mentioned)
2)More interaction with the other protagonists and what they think of him (Scared, Worried or still trust Jak) (like you mentioned)
3)They should have made the Precursor Temple in the City (suggested by Daxter, like you mentioned) as a Story event where Jak could rant or feel better from the improved Dark Eco.
4)Unique dialogues and moves if Jak transforms in Dark Jak during BOSS battles or near the protagonists.
5)Use Dark Jak transformations as events to explain what exactly Dark Eco is, what it does to Jak and explain better why Praxis wanted to use Dark Eco for his experiments.
Gameplay wise:
1)Dark Eco Powers as EX moves usable on Normal Jak and Dark Jak (consume a 1/3 of bar of Dark Eco to do Super punches/kicks/jumps while in Dark Jak mode reduces time of transformation each move) (like you mentioned)
2)Dark Jak as a revival option if you die while having full Dark Eco (sort of second chance where Dark Jak pushes away the enemies but immediately runs out since you got revived instead of using Dark Jak manually) AND...
2.1) If you transform manually into Dark Jak:
- All of Jak health will be restored and ALL Enemy attacks does only 1 DMG (instead of the usual 2) OR
- Jak will be completely immune to all damage.
3)All the Precursor Temple upgrades should also increase Dark Jak time and Dark Eco requirement to transform.
All these would increase Dark Jak value by a LOT.
There really should've been more interactions with characters when you'd turn into Dark Jak nearby them. They were actually kinda on the right track by making Crimson Guards from the second game sound panicky and more scared when you turn into Dark Jak. Rushing into the crowd of enemies and hearing: "Shoot that thing, shoot it!" or "The legends were true!" was very satisfying and made you feel like an unstoppable terror.
While I've always loved the implementation of Dark Jak because I'm an unironic edge lord and just thought it was fun to play with Infinite Dark Jak enabled in 3, you do have a point. More mechanics when it comes to how Dark Jak plays would've been neat. It felt too limited and underused. For example, look at the Devil Trigger from DMC. It not only enhances your attacks, but also gives you options for new movement based abilities like flying. Maybe Dark Jak would gain the ability to jump MEGA high like you mentioned. Or maybe the power to teleport? Just SOMETHING. Light Jak is exactly how Dark Jak should've been handled. Because there are certain sections that you can't get past without using your special Light powers.
Naughty Dog got the power system right with Light Jak. It's a real shame they didn't make that same system retroactively apply to Dark Jak too.
The dark punch power is a good start, but it's only real use is during the finale.
@@InhabitantOfOddworld Yeah true. Since Light Jak already had wings for flight, I feel a good movement ability for Dark Jak would've been the ability to blink or teleport. Turning invisible was awesome but it didn't require you to use your dark transformation to do so (You can still use it in Dark Jak form, but only by using a cheat, which is lame) if another Jak game ever sees the light of day, I hope they can expand on it. Something I would absolutely love is an execution mechanic like God of War, where if you use Dark Jak against enemies and they're near death, you can do brutal finishing move to them (Obviously not as gory as GoW lol) and also have the ability to use it against bosses for a cool QTE finisher.
He has one major movement thing apart from dark giant his melee attacks move much faster and in 2 and 3 with a certain orb unlock are homing.
I always felt dark jak got less love over the course of 2 and 3 than light jack. That always hurt my feelings a bit tbh 😞
It doesn't make sense to make the dark Jak harm Jak but it does make sense yo put others at risk and have him go to the oracle to learn how to better control it. However, I think dark Jak is meant to be like Hulk and triggered by intense anger. It makes sense that of he thinks on his torture he can eventually get into the state at will. Or even accidentally and so he has to learn not to dwell on what was done to him. Overcome the PTSD.
I loved the idea that dax tells jak about the oracle when he stops fighting
Imagine if Jak accidentally hurt Daxter in Dark Jak mode. Showing that he's not only a danger to himself but also to others even those he loves. Would make him wonder if he really is just a monster now.
I think Daxter being the one keeping him sane is more interesting. The thing you propose has been done before. What dark alter ego has been kept under by an annoying rat dude. It's funny, and yet it's rather wholesome, yknow?
@@yuchun_ That is a cool idea! I like seeing them as adopted brothers
@@spacesheep4015 I mean yeah but it's not just an idea 😭kinda their whole dynamic in Jak 2 to X. They're homies for life.
Cool ideas!
I think it could have helped a lot to make Dark Jak feel more uncontrollable and dangerous if they had added just one simple mechanic:
If your dark eco-meter is full but you don't activate Dark Jak, there is a random chance Dark Jak will activate on its own.
The longer you wait before releasing Dark Jak, the higher likelyhood of Dark Jak activating on its own.
If Dark Jak had been a central focus of the game as more than an afterthought, Jak II could have become a truly inspiring allegory about the human experience of trauma and coming to terms with it. The story that we did get then could have been framed in the light of Jak's internal struggle. I wish they had gone more in that direction; it would have left a much greater impact on the player and made the story more compelling overall.
Dark jak apparently was at one point possibly going to have more gameplay uses beyond combat, including surviving in hazardous areas that would be toxic to regular jak & handling items that would normally kill him.
But considering how big and ambitious jak 2 already is & was during development, I can accept some of those situational aspects having to take the bench.
I do appreciate them fleshing it about a bit more along with jak 3 though.. But that said: I’d love to see puzzles that require the combined use of both dark & light jak. lots of creative potential.
The sewer levels were difficult enough, can't imagine how much worse it'd be if you had to manage dark jak powers as well to get through it as well.
This channel really is a hidden gem
I thought having Dark Jack running four legged for faster movement would increase the savagery of his appearance
one cool thing ND could've done with Dark Jak is have an escape sequence with Daxter. Like a scenario that forces Jak to go wild and Daxter has to escape from either the carnage Jak is causing or Jak directly.
Great analysis, I wished for the same thing - just more expansion on the eco instead of the guns. Subscribed
Yes! The guns are all well and good, but having largely lost the focus on eco was a major let down after how well executed it was in TPL.
Well... if you pay attention the guns use different tipe of eco... yellow, red, blue and dark...
@@manueldelbono202This comment got me thinking several hours after I read it. I never noticed this, but it all makes sense now. The blunt power red, shooting yellow, rapid blue and destructive dark eco from J&D. I had to come back to this video to write this comment.
I swear I’ve heard your voice before. Did you have a channel prior to this one ?
They did fix dark jak in Jak3 but this was a good point in the video. They could possibly fix it if they ever would to make a remake , but as in right now I don’t see jak and Daxter happening no time soon. Unless fans in general actually know how to build a game and get the rights to naughty dog and Sony
Hey, you never know. If Samurai Jack can get a final season after 13 years, anything is possible.
@@doubletroublerainbow10 bro right?! I can't believe I forgot about that. I was so happy. My heart would probably fail due to intense happiness if I heard a new jak and daxter game was coming ...
I think guns invalidated your eco powers in jak 3, save for the light eco heal
I really love this analysis. Jak II is my favorite of the series despite its difficulty mainly because of how it expands on the world and its lore. (that while switching to a GTA type of tone is quite an achievement) That said, it makes me all the more sad that Dark Jak wasn't expanded upon as much as it could've been. I saw commercials for the game while not really understanding what was going on and seeing his eco powers then gave me goosebumps as to how utilizing his powers would compare to the first game. Needless to say, I was disappointed with how it wasn't what I hoped, but the story and new setting kept me invested. I always loved to use Dark Bomb on a large group or as a finishing move on a boss, but still ended up wishing for more from the experience.
Now some have mentioned how Jak 3 improved this, though I'd argue it did only slightly. Despite their uses, Dark Jak and Light Jak still didn't make me feel more inclined to use them unless the game called for it mainly because I either wanted to conserve them or felt they would break the flow of combat. Speaking of combat, the inclusion of more guns made the combat feel more imbalanced. I think if they had used less guns and focused more on integrating Jak's eco powers into the gameplay, we would've had something within Jak's new setting but at the same time placing itself back in the old roots of the first game that's expanded upon. That's how I would usually hope for Jak 4 to be like. I can't help but wonder how that would've further developed the game series' lore. All in all, I'm okay with what we have, but it's interesting to reflect on what could've been.
Agree with your gun point.
The guns make your eco powers almost invalidates their existence.
I say almost because of the light eco heal, but all the rest are either a puzzle solution or useless.
You can delete rooms with just guns like the reflexor, grenade launcher, that homing shot Vulcan fury gun or the literal nuke launcher.
I dont need to watch this to know I agree with you. Every aspect of this brilliant game could be expanded upon until it was 3x bigger than starwars. The creativity on display in this series has stayed with me my entire life.
I just realized watching this that when I just replayed the games a month ago I didn't use dark jak at all in Jak II. Literally not once aside of the forces transform you mentioned. I didnt even notice until you drew attention to it but yeah, you're right. It was very underdeveloped.
That segment where Daxter does the Class 2 race could have been worked better with Dark Jak in the plot
Keira expresses her concern for Jak’s new changes, and his emotions go out of control and he decides to run off, but Daxter has to be there for the race because it’s important to qualify for the final
This is a very well written and paced video. I'm glad to see so many views on a video about a Jak game.
Reading the bible design it was mentioned that they intended to do it, but they were unable due to time limitations... the same problem goes for jak 3 where they had massive plot holes and some game breaking guns
Makes sense
I thnink that the Dark Jack should work something like the devil form in devil may cry 5, and have 2 forms, like a half transformed Jack who uses dark eco in meele attacks, so enemyes usually die in 2 hits, and a full dark jack who can use smaller finisher combos, like the dark bomb, but in a smaller scale. This would make regular jack's punches deal less damage and build up dark eco, that he could store up for the big enemy waves. The player would only gain controll of thransformations in the later stages of the game, after visiting the oracle enought times. Until then the full Dark Jack form would not be leaveabble and would allways use up all the stored up dark eco to 0, at the final stages you could leave the full Dark Jack form after a few seconds, so you would have time to quickly clear nearby enemyes, then switch back to use guns. Also in half Jack form you could use guns, but that would make the melle attack reseted back to normal damage.
Well, AKSHULLY, the bronze idol does teach you how to "control it", so there, plot hole patched in-game.
But yeah, Jak 3 improved everything.
It's there but there isn't an explaination for why Jak visited the oracle in the first place. How did Jak know it was there? That question, among many, is the problem.
@@trajectory7235 It's pretty hilarious when you put it like that. Jak's like: "Uh, what's that big house at the docks? What if... Ooh, the doors open. What's that big ass statue, what's up with all the candles? Metalheads? Well, yeah, killed some of them already, infact, check out the stones I got from the... Woah, what are you doi- AAAAHHHH! Hey, what was that for?! Wow, new powers? And I'll get another one for bringing more stones? Ok, that sounds pretty nic... 200?!! HOW DID WE GO FROM 25 TO 200 ALREADY?! Fine then, thanks and goodbye, visit ya later."
@@velocilevon Haha, I didn't even think of it from a perspective like that. That is pretty funny, ay lol
The different mechanics discussed for dark jak specific sections remind me of how venom was implemented in Ultimate spider man for the PS2
I always felt that Dark Jak was kind of pushed to the side after his initial introduction. Same with Light Jak. There are very little comments on his dark and light eco usages accept maybe to explain to players what's going on. If I were making the game, I would have had the Resistance people talk about Jak's dark eco more then that one comment from Kor about it.
Plus. I almost never use Dark Jak in Jak 2 due to how long it takes to gather enough eco, and because I'm not forced into using it.
Dark Jak was slightly better in Jak 3 considering you could activate it so long as you had Dark Eco -- didn't have to have the full meter. But having scripted events where you're forced to be Dark Jak would make much more sense in terms of the "I can't control it" comment Jak makes in the beginning. It was also better usage of Dark Jak in 3 considering in order to complete main story missions, you sometimes HAD to turn into either Light or Dark Jak.
The "Dark Jak vs. Paxis' mech" idea reminds me of the Egg Dragoon boss battle from Sonic Unleashed.
In fact, Dark Jak and the Werehog are kinda similar, aren't they?
There will be times when I’m playing i forgot about Dark Jak. Like i hardly ever used him if at all.
I've been hoping some indie developer would create a spiritual successor to these games with mechanics like these in mind
I wouldve loved to see dark jak and light jak actually being apart of jak from the start of jak 1 when he was around fark and light eco. I think it wouldve been cool if they were actually personalitys he had inaide him from birth and actual jak is just the 2 combined.
Maybe if the community twisted Naughty Dog's arm enough and got a complete remake of the Jak and Daxter series, we could see some of these ideas for Dark Jak come to life
There's a pretty good fan fiction story by an author username Light_eco_sage. Where he's his transformations have alter egos and jak has 3 different voices in his head including himself. The author follows the games plot but expands upon each character and Jaks abilities. Honestly it was a good read and made me like the game more then I remembered playing it as a kid.
If it were, I go back in time and show the developers this video.
Jumping over buildings with dark Jak wouldn't really have worked because the buildings served the function of culling parts of the environment for the renderer.
And also the hoverboard served the function of speeding up traversal without a zoomer.
In Jak2 Cover it looks Like Dark Jak has a Sword which is Intresting.
The balancing was improved in jak3 for sure
Now that's what I want for recommended
something cool is that if you turn into Dark Jak on co op missions The characters will comment on it. Like Sig at the pump station Ashelin during the ambush missions or Jinx in the sewers.
Damn, bro really dropped his thesis then dipped
Wondering if you'll ever do a comeback once openGOAL finishes Jak II
From what I remember, the ONLY time I really, really needed to use Dark Jak was in one of the sewer missions where you face a horde of Metal Heads in a tight, enclosed space. Aside from that, the form was kinda useless.
I totally agree with you on Dark Jak being underdeveloped. Adding dark jak more to the story would have definitely made the plot stronger. But in the end my edge lord self thought it was badass. However, you said walking on foot was slow but honestly traveling around became easier once you acquired the jetboard.
I've always loved the idea of the eco transformations. But they only every used dark and light jak. I've always wished they found a way to get all the eco type their own transformations
I agree with the points you have made in this video and I'd like to continue the brainstorm and share my ideas:
A. Mission Integration
I agree with Dark Jak being largely underutilized in story as well as gameplay compartments, as it isn't used a lot apart from cutscene content and first level of the game. Dark Jak was also used in some cutscenes in Jak 3 and there were two scripted transformations: First Arena Fight and Dark Strike tutorial.
Making more scripted content for Dark Jak is a must. But how we should go about it? Option 1: scripted levels and segments. That means, there should be content added that is only playable with Dark Jak, but in order to do that, we should first signify Dark Jak advantages over his normal self, and if there aren't many (SPOILER ALERT! There aren't many), then we should rework the gameplay part of Dark Jak.
Option B: random transformations. Meaning, that throughout the story we will use a certain plot device to add Dark Jak transofrmations, unintended by the player. The mechanism for that is in both Jak 2 and 3 first levels, where Dark Jak activates, and pressing L2 turns him back, only for it to activate again. The amount and intensity of the transofrmations will also increase or decrease with the progression. But making transofrmations random and out of nowhere will probably just annoy the player and ruin the balance of the game, even if it signifies a major plot point.
Jak 2 and 3 are setup in GTA'esque environments, and a lot of player interactions with the world around him can have consequences. One of them, is GTA style wanted system, whereas if you kill Haven citizens or KGs you get wanted level, although, not as sophisticated as in GTA. GTA is also more violent and mature rated game, it also has crime score and, well, it requires player to kill a lot of people, or rather, not requires, but pushes the player to lower the significance of harming and killing citizens, policemen, etc.
Jak world is a little bit different to that, It's much more idealistic by nature, and based on kind principles, as it's made for a lower aged audience, and is meant to have a positive message. And so, Jak is referred to as a Hero and Champion of all time.
This leads me to the idea, that there should be some sort of an in-game meter (not active and constant) of Jak's (or players) status, kindness, positivity, conscience, the 'good' meter, whatever you want to call it, I'm going to name it "Hero Score" for the sake of this comment.
The idea is simple, any violent act of harming citizen, KGs, stealing Zoomers, destroying them, etc. will result in a deduction of Hero Score, while helping citizen fend off Metalheads, completing missions, generally destroying metal heads, etc. will award player with Hero Score, but we are not going to make it very obvious to the player and constantly active in your HUD, rather make it appear once in a while, maybe, in between acts, to signify the players performance.
Now, what's that going to mean from player's perspective. That creates a plot device of Dark Eco experiments being an important ordeal for Jak, and each deduction of Hero Score brings him more to his Dark side (no pun intended).
Haven City and it's aura can be described very well by the Grey colour, even without additional downgrades, but we can probably affect the gameplay more with Hero Score. Deduction will result in color scheme changes, weather changes, people reaction (the reduction of people in areas Jak is in, people running away and being terrified if you any near), KGs reaction (open fire on site, disdainful comments on defeat, etc.), additional content on speakers around town, mentioning your crimes, changes in Jak's appearance resembling more of his Dark form) and Daxter animations and comments (being noticeably scared of Jak, verbal attempts to stop Jak's rampage, if he starts one, maybe even segments, where Daxter jumps off his shoulder, during enemy or KG fight, etc.) On the other hand, higher score, will result in positive comments from citizens and their more friendly approach, areas where Jak appears, being much more livid.
With this, we can introduce a mechanic, where lower and lower Hero Score will result in unexpected Dark Jak transofrmations, and the lower the score the stronger Dark Jak should become. Maybe, with the lowest score we can make Dark Jak invincible to enemy attacks, but causing Damage over Time, there are a lot of different ways. Perhaps, we can also alter the ending depending on your score.
B. Story Integration
Giving Dark Jak more screen time can also improve the transition between second and the third game. So let's say, we get the same ending as in original Jak 2 game, but with Dark Jak defeating Metal Kor and so the question of Jak's inner state is still left in the air. Maybe, after events of the second game, when Jak and the company are leading the Freedom army to war against metal heads and KG robots, increased exposure to eco and involvement in fights can make Jak less stable, causing unexpected transformations and more aggression, so people and higher-ups of Freedom becoming afraid of him, comparing him to a monster like Metal Kor, and effectively blaming him for all the failures in the battlefield.
We should also rework Jak's trial and banishment which seemed pretty illogical at the beginning of Jak 3. Let's say that when they form the Haven council, some HQ members are also present in the formation, and one of the members is count Veger. Knowing who Jak is and his importance for this fight, he figures that he cannot gain control of the Freedom HQ as long as they have an asset like Jak, so he starts an agenda of revealing information about Dark Warrior program and labels Jak as Dark Eco Freak.
Although, there are zero ways of him overpowering the head of HQ and Jak, he can atleast cause mass confusion in the public which leads to Jak's trial, so perhaps he is using the same nethods as Praxis used against Jak's father. Veger can play very well with Jak's emotions, so he can provoke him during the trial. Just as we see in the intro cutscene of Jak 3, he might resist taking into custody and try to breakout, which is vastly different to how he was captured in the previous game intro. Maybe, Jak can even lose his cool for the moment and transform during the trial, guaranteeing Veger his victory. At this point, even Jak's allies like Ashelin, Torn, Samos and Keira too, maybe, lose their faith and Jak and become a little bit afraid. So, for the old times sake, Ashelin tries to contest with the council/judges, or whatever, but Jak's behaviour leaves her no chances, and it's not like she will try very hard to stop Jak's exile anyway.
In my eyes, that makes sense, to why, she didn't stop Jak's banishment in the first place, but she could do it later, as they saw their chances at victory diminishing without Jak.
We can also tie this in, with the introduction of Light Jak. Having less and less control of Dark powers, we can see Jak transforming during First Arena Fight. Damas seen it too, so at some point after capturing leapers in the desert mission we can include a cutscene or atleast a transmission of Damas advising Jak to visit the Precursor Temple in the desert, to search for something that might help him, rather than have this mission just popup as you unlock the specific vehicle.
And knowing Jak's state of mind, the Precursors award him with the light of hope being Light Jak abilities of regeneration to balance with his Dark Eco powers. It's only natural for Ashelin come to Jak and seeing him more stable to be more sure of asking him back.
C. Gameplay changes.
As I was writing this I already forgot what I wanted to explain here on top of what you've said. But yeah:
1) enhance Dark Jak's moveset in a way, it gives you possibilities that normal Jak don't have;
2) also, depending on your Hero Score we can make enemies lose morale, throw back and retreat whenever you transform;
3) I completely agree with unique Dark Jak QTEs and finishers, but there is a small problem. We want to encourage players to use Dark Jak instead of morph gun, so instead of making Jak lose Dark Eco meter when doing certain actions like attacks, we should have these just frame actions, where perofrming them will actually fill your Dark meter a little bit, allowing you to chain your combos, Sick Smokin' Style without running out of Eco in a minute, and that also encourages players not to just clear screen with Dark Bomb but rather be more effective with it.
That's about it, of what I could remember. I'll hope to find more Jak and Daxter content on your channel
Okay so, i am more curious what happened to the dark giant form in jak 3 was it caused by a imbalance or something or maybe it's a level 2 dark eco transformation if this is true what would a light eco level 2 form be?
Also if jak 4 ever comes out i hope they have eco powers on top of the dark and light forms and gun gives more gameplay variety.
Dark Jak was the least important part, but it made the entire game for me. Watching the character I learned to love in the first game change so drastically really got me invested in his character
I think you don't understand why some of us like Jak 2 over 3. Jak 3 did add "environmental abilities," with the dark laser being used to crush random walls blocking your path...it was boring, a "been there, done that" nothing burger of a mechanic.
Ontop of that, things like the "triple jump" miss the whole point of the form, and one of it's genuinely plot significant aspects, that being the fact it's not some controllable skill during Jak 2. Jak being able to use dark eco in a sophisticated, strategic manner, goes against everything dark eco and dark jak conveys, as well as essentailly ignoring how Jak can't actually channel eco like he used to (the lost frontier does not count). Things like the peace maker are the only ways a human can properly use dark eco.
Jak lost the "pure gift," that being eco channeling and access to precursor relics. This is why Dark Jak manifests as a form, something he cannot just control as a normal person. ND intentionally decided to make Dark Jak less sophisticated and controlled than Jak is usually, with them removing things like the ability to use guns, as well as removing any voice lines indicating that Jak can talk when he is fully transformed into this feral monstrosity. This is why he had to be blessed by the precursors to use light eco, he NEEDED an entire form for it to be compatible with him again. Hell, the Oracle is arguably the reason Jak has ANY control over his dark form, as before you ever meet it, all Jak does is random, animalistic swipes.
As for it somehow not being uncontrollable due to our ability to activate it, narrative dissonance I suppose. The most the game tells us is that it's related to anger, which is ironically one of the reasons one would activate DJ in Jak 2 since it's so hard (I'm so quirky).
My point is that this is a classic case of players seeing the phrase "missed potential" and just brainstorming things without thinking about the deeper implications on the lore or gameplay. I for one find Dark Jak better as a visual representation of Jak's experience in prison, over....idk, even more of a shoehorned Hulk dynamic? As for gameplay, I'm even less of a fan, what I personally like about Jak 2 is the fact you can usually complete it's missions in any way you want, or at least, have a lot of creative control over how to do it (the seal piece at slums mission of all things has around four unique methods of completion). Trading that for scripted sequences is actually, and I mean no offense, one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. It falls victim to the mentality of future Jak games, serving as one of the few flaws in Jak 3 (Again, smashing rocks with a laser is some of the most boring shit imaginable, and most of the bosses are a lot less freeform than Jak 2's), to one of the major reasons the Lost Frontier is so awful (basically most things not ripped off from the trilogy are automated). Moreover, it sounds too much like the flaw of games today, that being the scripted sequences taking away the game aspect, instead of using gameplay to convey the story.
So tl;dr, I'm glad Dark Jak was "underdeveloped" if it meant Jak 2's story actually got to be fleshed out, and it's gameplay freeform and creative. I don't need a million sequences to have dark eco's effects conveyed to me, it is done via Jak himself, with the dark eco changing him in general, dark Jak just exists to represent that change visually...and to have some sick screen nukes. Yes by the way, I rather have the fun gunplay NOT be overshadowed, and dark giant on it's own is enough to allow creative use besides a built in panic button (destroy ship at drill platform: dark blast to kill the hidden KG before the 40 man onslaught that awaits, very useful on hero mode).
I agree I’d also just fix up the lore a little bit for the remake make sure when you see the shadow he has a little daughter with him for one example
Shadow daughter in the lore?
I'm a bit late here, but please elaborate.
You've piqued my interest.
@@Crybyte so the shadow from Jak two you learn in Jak two is actually Samos from Jak and Daxter who has a Daughter Keira who according to the information from Jak x is two years younger then Jak who is the 4 year old in Jak two when he’s sent to the past with the shadow to be in Jak and Daxer man that’s a paragraph lol .
@@Crybyte but you see how it’s weird that he gos to the past with only Jak then Keira just kinda shows up if he adopted a girl in jak and Daxter I could see that happening but they never discussed that or anything
The Dark Jak meter should have charged with every hit Jak takes and deals, and slowly recharged over time. Maybe doing a fancy combo or killing multiple enemies at once recharges it more. Tying it to an item drop (those Dark Eco pellets) was a bad idea. You never know when you might come across them again, so when you have Dark Jak available, the logical move is to just conserve it for an emergency. But the result of this is under-utilizing it.
Your last idea was great too. Bosses could have a final phase when they reach critical HP where Jak "loses control" and enters a consistent Dark Jak state, and the boss becomes faster and more frantic. That way each boss battle would have a good balance of gun-play and Dark Jak melee.
A scripted scenario with Dark Jak: the best example I could think of is when you're tasked with killing stealth Metal Heads in Haven Forest. Jak relying on pure killer instincts along with his powers; the counter starts at 30 or 50 enemies, then, after reducing that number, Dark Jak goes from uncontrollable to HONED. The Dynamic Audio going from staccato to a sort of dark, menacing flow/wave/pulsating effect. The darkness is still there, potent as ever, but Jak has mastered HIMSELF (to a better, more positive degree).
What do you guys think? Could a scenario I put here work in a re-imagining of the Trilogy (R&C Rift Apart style)?
You can basically do that yourself in the game, though less in a "killer instinct" way and more in a "completely batshit insane feral beast" way. Kill a few scouts with the lockon melee, then dark blast. Immediately reduced half the scouts to ashes and gems, though the amount depends on whether you have dark giant unlocked.
Also Dark Jak already has an effect on the music, you can look it up, every stage has dark jak instruments.
Great video! Got me thinking about the story. I've always loved Dark Jak but never realised how underdeveloped it was. I guess my imagination did most of the work instead of the actual plot/subplot/feature. 😅
I have only one small criticism of the video though: I felt it was unnecessary for you to spend the beginning of the video justifying why you have criticisms for Dark Jak. You don't need to justify yourself for having an opinion or for starting a discussion, plus it wastes viewers time. But it wasn't much of a deal. I enjoyed the video and you brought up some really interesting points! 😊
Even if you want to use him the pain in the ass it is to get dark eco and the lackluster return made it really annoying to use.
Dark Jak is a metaphor for changes in Jak as a person. I think they used the mechanic just enough to make this point. I agree Dark Jak could have more explicitly been used as a reason for Jak to visit Oracle, but I disagree with everything in your second point. The second point makes fundamental changes to the core design to highlight a mechanic that has already received appropriate attention.
Dark jak would have been used more often if it wasn't too long to channel that much eco
No, no, no, no, no. What you suggest would ruin the repressive, undesirable aspect of it. Dark Jak is meant to be a weaponizable character flaw. If you incorporate it into the story through scripted sequences, it loses its negative value and turns into some kind of positively constructive "superman mode". Players should always have this duality freedom, either by popping Dark Jak at will, either never popping it. If Dark Jak becomes mandatory for certain parts of the game, it will lose its secret, undesirable, non-conformist value, which would ruin the charm of it.
Getting enough dark eco to transform for only like, fifteen seconds certainly isn't very satisfying, which is why I like dark Jak in 3, but in 3 he's a bit more lame
I feel like jak 3 did more with dark jak than jak 2. He was essentially exiled because he was different and they were afraid of him and he needed to get light eco to balance himself out. They also let you activate it more frequently and gave you a ranged attack with him it's even used in puzzles with dark invisibility.
He was actually banished because of his relations with Krew, since, yknow, he opened the door for the metal heads and sold Haven out. Sure he sent Sig to do it, but I think it's one of the few things that makes sense in Jak 3. Ignorance always leads to scapegoating.
@@yuchun_ it was both
@@_Tzer I mean yeah but it was definitely moreso the people blaming Jak than them fearing him, at least that's what I get from Ashelin's first few quotes in Jak 3. Depending on the city sector, Jak is either a hero fighting for freedom, or a lower class scum undermining the war with the metal heads.
@@yuchun_ still believe dark jak made a greater impact story wise than in jak 2 tbh.
Id like you to keep in mind, that even though this game was rated T it was, on a level, advertised to children. I think the developers were aware many children would buy their game thus less of a Dark Jak plot..
I also believe that the auto shifting was actually a mechanic in one of the earlier versions somewhere down the line until it was "updated..
As far as environmental uses this was handled more in Jak 3
I believe the Developers were trying to give the public just a taste of this mechanic to see how they would respond..
Given the climate of this comment section I would say its positive..
Your not wrong, per say, but Dark Jak was a lesser component to the game, the focus was meant to be on saving the world and finding Mar..
In each Jak game the eco is a tool, not meant to be "worshipped" when we cross that fine line things get out of hand.. very useful.. living even.. but still a tool to help one navigate further in the game.
Excellent Video
I like your story concepts. Actually yeah it all makes sense but one thing comes to my attention. The gameplay mechanics would've been too hard to implement or we would have to lose something the game already had (like waaay too many npcs on the road) because it's to my understanding that Jak 2 and 3 pushed the PS2 as far as it could go. There probably wasn't a lot of ram left to integrate these mechanics. But yes a all dark Jak level and some framing cutscenes to tie the oracle in would love been nice.
I agree with everything you said. Personally I loved Dark Jak but felt he's only there as a last resort or 1 shot opportunity. But I feel like Jak 3 kinda fixed these problems, given that there are levels that require you to use light & Dark Jak. But I hope your ideas happen to come in either a Remake of all 3 games or even into a new game. *Sigh* I just don't see it happening tho since naughty Dog gave up on the series long ago plus Sony is doing another lazy port to PS5......
It would also be cool to see if Dark Jak made a negative impact on the plot. Not just being useful gameplay mechanic but also negative, maybe Keira gets scared of Jak and doesn't want to get near him or maybe Jak was given a mission but through anger he couldn't control himself and makes the bad decision ultimately failing the mission. And for gameplay, Dark Jak randomly occurs breaking the flow that you had going for fights and even attacking and moving randomly out of your control. although that last part might be hard to implement without making the game annoying
Isn't that literally one of the reasons they have beef during the game?
Like she literally talks about the rumors of him getting angry and "changing." It's part of the reason the two have a feud, besides working for Krew.
Gonna be honest Dark Jak vs Metal Kor would've been bad ass imagine just having a final boss while your Dark Jak and if he was even more in the plot gaining more control over the powers besides the oracle letting the dark eco not kill hik but he also gains control of it so during the final fight with Kor
It'd be interesting if you had to kill metal heads to gather dark eco to even be able to damage Kor, imo. It'd be similar to the battle with Krew. While I love Kor's fight, I find the lack of Dark Jak in the gameplay to reduce the thematic impact of Dark Eco essentially saving Jak in the custscene prior.
I just finished replaying Jak 2. I tried to use Dark Jak in the final fight against Kor. First I tried to use it to clear the small metalheads quickly so I could shoot Kor: I pressed punch and he went straight for Kor and into the pit. Then I tried to use it to get through the final section when Kor comes to the ground: that's how I found out Kor doesn't take damage from melee attacks. I took out half the segment with a Dark Bomb, then got killed during the animation while turning back.
Considering Jak literally transformed right before the fight begins in that cutscene, not being able to properly use that for that mission is a load of crap and contrivance, now that you mention it.
@@MagmaPaint For real. Imagine getting an auto-dark giant and having Kor on the ground the whole time.
I think he does take damage from melee attacks, but it's so insignificant it doesn't show for at least a few hits. Try with Dark Giant and it might do the trick.
@@yuchun_ I think it's only Dark Giant.
@@Poldovico Considering how damage values work in Jak 2, it's probably not exclusively Dark Giant, it's just that the Giant's physical attacks are multiplied by a pretty large amount. Therefore, normal melee is insanely weak against Kor, making the damage unnoticeable for a long while. As I said, games with life bars don't always properly deplete, I think the only reason the guns do pretty regular damage is a specific flag the game has set for bosses. Really, what other boss can you punch in Jak 2? My best guess is Krew
I wish This franchise returns on the ps5
I mean it's already another port on PS5 lol
@@Cpt.Masami more of a remaster to fully utilize the ps5 lol. Everything’s getting a remaster nowadays
i would have loved dark jak only enemies, would actually give a reason to use him. or like in the video, door mechanisms involving dark eco and dark jak but that means it would be problematic because if the dark eco gauge is empty then you cannot progress further. and jak 2 doesn't have dark eco sources like in jak3, it would be kind of stupid as well, since we see dark eco transactions, meaning it's hard to find dark eco. idk how the eco sources work according to the lore, if it's actual eco flowing out of there or just, you know, spiritual energy of sorts. if it's raw eco then why not link it directly to the power system
so in the end the only thing jak 2 and 3 were missing were dark and light jak only enemies. dark bomb for enemies with tough shells, light jak time slow down for really fast enemies or the forcefield to shield yourself from an unavoidable attack
I think Jak 3 did a lot of justice to dark jak, but still underutilized it. Same with the light powers. Some times their sequences of use were never used again.
Example, how often did we really use the light shield? (Aside from flight glitch)
Basically never because it's worthless without the flying, like why waste light eco on a shield when you can fully heal yourself with it?
Im just seeing this video, but all of this is facts. I never transformed unless i needed to one and done a crowd. The way jak 3 did it is much better. The only way they can make up for this is a jak 4 (lost frontier doesnt exist). Side note: Jak and daxter was so well designed and one of the best games of it's time by far.
Issue with this video is that you blatantly ignored the improvements made to Dark Jak's utility and importance in Jak 3, gameplay and story wise. There were more scripted and mandatory Dark Jak sections in Jak 3 and more mentions of it throughout the story, especially by Veger and Seem.
His points were more focused on that of Jak 2 and not Jak 3. Im sure he was well aware of that.
Even then, it’s so sparse and barely mentioned at all. I made a compilation of all the scenes and mentions and it’s not even 10 minutes long sadly.
That some great ideas for a new game ! Why it look so simple lmao
Your right I never use dark Jak at all
Your fist idea to add more story beats based on dark jak is garbage but your second idea to deepen the controls for the game is amazing
All of them!
I think at lot of games will have something like dark jak or some other gameplay feature that gives you an advantage at the cost of some energy or what ever but it always annoys me because i try to save the power for a big fight or something but never end up needing it or remembering to use it
Spoiler srota for dying light
An example from the game dying light that always bothered me was that near the start of the game in a scripted event you get infected and it rarely ever comes up in the story or should I say you are almost never affected by it or the seizure it gives you outside of 1 or 2 scripted events
And just like that… he vanished
Right
LOL you could be such a good UA-camr but you ain’t doing any more videos
They didnt know wat 2 do with this game
Zelda the breath of the wild
Shouldn't this be _How_ Dark Jak Was Underdeveloped and Underutilized? 'Why', to me, implies a retrospective on the development of Jak II and why certain aspects may have been rushed or not fleshed out well. I was expecting dev diaries or interview clips or something.
It was still a good video and I agree with all your points, the title just threw me off slightly. I think the best title would actually just be 'Dark Jak Was Underdeveloped and Underutilized'
I think that Naughty Dog's mentality with Dark Jak in gameplay is they tried to treat it like your standard, short-lived OP Super Mode, like God of War's Rage of the Gods/ Titans/ Sparta, or Devil May Cry's Devil Trigger. But Dark Jak isn't OP enough to fall into that category
I mean, no he kinda is. Dark invincibility and Dark Giant allow things like steamrolling certain missions with the proper setup, and, reminder, makes you unable to take damage in a game where you have four hitpoints.
@@yuchun_ I mean you have a point, but my point is that I think that's why Dark Jak is so bare-bones like other such super modes
@@firehedgehog1446 Well, yeah, exactly. The only devs I've seen who make such a form easily accessible is Sonic Team back in the 90s. Honestly, that's exactly why I prefer Dark Jak over something like Super Sonic. If I wanted to be invinsible for the whole game, I'd just enable the cheats. A short and sweet screen nuke gives you that edge without feeling like you're not actually engaging with the game.
@@yuchun_ True, and all that is why I like the way Jak 3 handles Dark Jak much better, it drops Invincibility & Giant because they were so OP, makes it so it no longer works on a time limit AND gives you situations where you have to use Dark Jak to progress
@@firehedgehog1446 Personally I dislike the dark jak rock walls you use the laser attack on. They were always slow and predictable, nothing special.