I just copied this from tumblr bc it’s GOLD. I mean I say I love the enemies to lovers trope but what I really mean is that I love the “enemies to resentful allies in a time of crisis to grudging mutual respect to growing fondness concealed by snark to hurtful betrayal to slow reconciliation with a greater understanding of each other to strange but solid friendship to unexpected feelings to denying their feelings while growing closer as friends to epiphanies of love in the worst possible circumstances to mutual pining to unbearable sexual tension to lovers” trope
@@farreldjougo6122 Red, White and Royal Blue. The main two characters are The first son of the US(Alex) and the other is a prince of England(Henry) and they get caught in an international scandal where Alex and Henry knock over the cake at a royal wedding while fighting and so everyone thinks they hate each other (which they do), and their PR teams decide to be all like ‘they’re actually really good friends. They were just doing a reunion handshake’. It’s amazing and the ultimate comfort book.
I love enemies to lovers. But as a grown person, I know that it not real and I am not looking for a relationship like this in real life. That`s why I read fiction, not biographies. I want to read unrealistically romanticized trash.
I dislike it so much I just refuse to accept it as a part of the trope. At least whenever I find that in stories most people criticize it and it isn’t generally well received.
Another reason I think this trope's so popular cuz when someone's your enemy they are few of the rare people who see you at your worst---like, when you are mad and when you don't pretend to be likable with them cuz you don't care if they like you or not...from there,if someone can still grow to respect,love or desire you,that means it's a really authentic thing between you both which makes it more romantic.
speaking as someone who loves best friends to lovers, it's kinda annoying when people make it seem like the enemy's the only person who's seen the character at their worst, it's like they're forgetting the other characters/sidekicks who were with the character when it all began
@@lia.g9796 that only applies if the best friend predates the enemy, which is actually not always the case, AND also only applies if the MC isn't the type to keep their true worstest-worst even from their closest friends. Plus, some people really like the idea of having a best friend outside of their love-interest. A best friend who can still be there for the MC even through romantic ups or downs that might complicate that if their best friend IS their love-interest? I personally have totally different, equally-tender places in my heart for both tropes. ^-^
I like me some enemies to lovers. The problem for me comes when it's not in character for an MC to look at the war criminal who murdered her family, burned her village, and destroyed her life, and she's like "but he's hot and he said he was sorry..." Like, I gotta be able to believe she'd forgive his mass murdering ass.
This is how I feel about Drarry. Obviously, Draco didn't murder anyone's family so it's not as extreme, but I just can't see Harry getting over Draco's sins so easily. Talented authors who take the time to write a story where Draco has a change of heart and works to make ammends can make me believe the romance, but there has to be some serious redemption before I can believe Harry would look at him in that light.
Pride & Prejudice is the only E2L Trope that I praise. How Jane Austen wrote Darcy & Elizabeth from start to end is just brilliant. Their characters have growth, have realistic human flaws, yet still lovable to the readers. We see the transition and change on how they let go of their first impression (their own pride and prejudice) to the other. It’s not forced… unlike most books that they just suddenly feel sexual tension, hence they forget they hate each other. I think Jane Austen is one of the authors who popularized this trope but not every author can replicate her genius. The setting, character arch, plot, and dialogue is the formula that makes a story fantastic.
I'm sorry, but as great as Darcy and Elizabeth are, they are definitely NOT enemies to lovers and I think them being listed as such actually illustrates a thought I have that people kinda soften what an 'enemy' is to the point they are surprised when actual big conflict driven relationships are considered enemies to lovers
Calling back to the video on friends to enemies to lovers, we were ROBBED of meaningful development in the friends to enemies/rivals to best friends that should have been the heart of the Inheritance Cycle (Eragon)...
Personally, I prefer the enemies-to-friends-to-lovers trope. The relationship of the characters transitioning into friends after hating one another, and them growing their respect and admiration on a platonic level before realizing they have romantic feelings for the other is so satisfying. Adds a nice slowburn, and gives the characters a different lens to perceive their former enemy as someone better than they had initially thought and then as those perceptions grow, so do their romantic interests
Yes! This is my favorite version of that trope. Realizing they were wrong about the person or that the person has changed and they becoming close to them as a friend and then falling in love with them and it completely shocking them
My problem with even the "softer" or "less problematic" enemies to lovers stories, is that it goes into this whole idea that if boys are mean to you, it might be because they actually like you and suck at expressing/dealing with their feelings. (example: the hating game)
i’ve always hated when people said “they’re just mean to you because they like you” like that makes it better? just because someone likes you doesn’t mean you have to forgive them for doing awful things to you
I think that’s a difficult thing tho because we shouldn’t forget that enemies behave the way they behave because well...THEY ARE ENEMIES. In war they Are forced by their side to destroy the other, their love can be a „revolutionary“ thing to Rebell against the war or rivalry between two sides. Now what you describe is often found in modern setting but even here it depends in my opinion on the circumstances, as I feel that woman are acting mean as well which is then never pointed out by the plot.
@@annabella5882 yes it can definitely be more complex than that, but my example with the hating game is (MILD SPOILER ALERT) that by the end of the book, Josh says that he made the conscious decision to be mean to Lucy when they first met, which started this while "enemies" thing, and that just doesn't sit well with me...
I love the enemies to lovers troupe but i seriously hate the "i bully you bc i like you" troupe bc first off its downright toxic to romanticize being bullied/bullying and just cuz they bully you bc they like you doesn't make them any less of an asshole. Also the fact that a lot of impressionable young adults & teens are gonna be reading these books & think its some standard of romance scares me
@@talkingtoawall5123 I agree with that I don’t like this trope either especially what I’ve saw the female protagonist didn’t act much different from the man here. But I don’t think any teenage girl reading that is not able to comprehend that it’s just fiction and not real. We all know how to detect bullying and it’s to serious to put the blame on „girls can’t difference fiction from reality.“ I also think that’s more rival to lovers than enemies. Because enemies are perfect in settings of war, or arguments between families or companies and so on.
@Rokenrol Bro 2019 yes and no. first they are enemies and when they are become friends, its different; theres no burning hatred no more, they are over it already. but now they are friends in which they already know the worst part of each other (the enemies arc), in this friends arc they are getting know each other in postivie looks. enemies to friends to lovers are likely combined with mutual pining so.... there's fluff and angst and both and you'll be overwhelm by it.
I think being aroace it's easy for me to really enjoy "unrealistic" romance tropes like enemies to lovers. Like you were saying, a lot of people seek things that are pure fantasy in fiction that you wouldn't want to happen in real life. Like just because I'm aroace doesn't mean I can't enjoy romance in fiction, and just because I enjoy romance in fiction doesn't mean I'm seeking it in real life. No matter what your orientation or circumstance in life, just because you enjoy something in books doesn't mean you want it in real life
That's a thing a lot of people seem to fail to understand. Just because you like something in a book or story doesn't mean you think it would be ok irl, or that you would want it to happen to you.
Even stuff I actually want in real life I don’t always want in real life, eg. I’d love to travel the world in a van in like theory and dreams- but in real life I ain’t that bitch and would actively hate it probably. I’m on the ace spectrum and love reading angsty smut but it’s not for me in practice. Can’t imagine how little I’d read if I only read what I wanted in real like 😂
@@losermillie i also would love to travel the world in a van, but also aint that bitch 🤣🤣🤣 would also love to volunteer to help baby turtles, but in reality im scared of the rest of the animals where the turtels are. 🤣
What I love about this trope is that as a reader/viewer we get to know the characters and their relationship as they get to know each other. I feel like this is always harder to do with something like friends to lovers because they usually have a past together that the reader/viewer wasn't a part of:)
Favorite type: one of them fully believes they are rivals/enemies while the other one has been in love all along (aka the untamed/mdzs). Bonus points if it's blatantly obvious to the reader
I'm going to be honest, I usually go for fanfics with this premise. I don't know if I've read many books like this. Obviously The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, which you can read the fantranslation of online. Maybe Heaven Official's Blessing as well, but I haven't read that yet. It's basically a miscommunication trope, but with added angst 😁
@@AnanasAbanaan miscommunication is both the most infuriating and interesting tropes out there. if done right it can be really captivating and/or hilarious.
@@imani7979 I think I like it so much because you get all that angst, but you KnoW they will end up together. In real life I'm all for extremely open communication, all cards on the table, but in fiction I love that moment of realization, the 'how did we both miss this, it's so obvious' moment. Bonus for friends running a betting pool, for 'pining for the person you're sleeping with' or 'didn't know they were roommates' subtropes.
As a writer, I often analyze my characters' romance and ask myself those questions- "Is this a healthy relationship?" "Will people assume I'm saying this is ideal?" "Are they co-dependant?" There comes a point that I have to remind myself that I'm not their therapist and I need to let the characters be themselves. They're not Mary and Gary Stues. They have flaws, so why shouldn't their relationship?
This!! People have to remember that characters are not ment to be moral ideals, and just bc the person wrote them doesn't mean she thinks all that they're doing is great, you don't need to be a villain to do bad shit. It pisses me off even more when it's a story based in an ancient type of world, being historical or fantasy, and they want to put modern day morals and cultures on the characters and judge them on it, it's just peak stupidity
YEAH sometimes people will try to write overly “perfect” healthy relationships and it comes off as virtue signaling or just copping out of writing characters that actually have to talk through the flaws in their relationship
Literally as a writer all you need to do is just...not excuse characters actions Im writing a couple that turns extremely toxic. But guess what? They break up and move on, and both of them end up apologizing. It's that easy!
As a fellow lover of this trope I highly appreciate that you put all the subtypes because some books people say "this is enemies to lovers" and I'm like "hummnnnn are they really???" LOL
I Think that even if it is a overused trope, we don't have MANY GOOD BOOKS on this trope ... of all that I've read, only 3 I Liked the take on the trope.
@@annevh9315 You probably already know/read it, but here: "The Cruel Prince" (I think it works because of the fantasy environment, even if it's a little toxic (Like, they're REAL ENEMIES at first, and I like that) "To kill a kingdom", "pride and prejudice" (what a classic) and "The daughter of the Pirate king". I don't like enemies to lovers in the modern setting ( because its more like, rival to lover and always has a rom-com vibe, when I like angst and pain of faling in love with a enemy/bad, BAD, person XD. ( pride and prejudice being the exception) So I only have those (I said there were few, I read more fanfics about it)
i think the main thing with the idea of “toxic” enemies to lovers has nothing to do with the ship themselves but how individuals treat the ships?? like i LOVE enemies to lovers but darklina gives me a bad taste in my mouth not because of the ship itself (because i think the book does a great job of being a tense relationship and having an interesting dynamic that i supported while reading) but i’ve seen so many people say that darklina MUST be canon and i’ve seen people be cruel to people who like mal or nikolai and so it’s hard for me to get on board. especially with people invalidating leigh’s experience writing this as a way to cope with her own abusive relationship, and her decision not to have that relationship end up being the main one because it was about her own escape from a charming man who took advantage of her. i have a lot of feelings about this cause the concept of darklina hits different but sometimes fan reactions sully that for me. anyway theres my rant loved the video thanks for giving me a space to yell about this
Yes! You just described so well how I feel about darklina! I never quite knew where my distaste for it came from because even tho I didn’t exactly like it in the books, I can acknowledge the tension between them and probably wouldn’t have minded them ending up together, if it would’ve been executed well. It’s much more the (hardcore) darklina fans (like you mentioned) that really made me dislike the ship , especially when I notice them complaining about how mal (and Nikolai) stans apparently constantly hate on them but when I go to the comments of a darklina pic, for example, I either see no mal stans whatsoever or the ones I do see make (most of the time) a pretty valid argument as to why they don’t like darklina and prefer malina and the darklina stans react sometimes pretty aggressively. Anyways I think Alina should’ve ended up alone with Genya, Zoya, Nikolai, etc. as her friends
i think i have a love hate relationship with enemies to lover bc it can be done really really well but a lot of the time it’s enemies to lovers bc oppressor vs oppressed or asshole vs victim and then it’s not really the relationship i have a problem with but the portrayal of oppression, and tbh this can be done very very well (nina and matthias, matthias actually unlearns his hatred, not just bc he fell in love with a grisha but bc he noticed flaws in his logic and bc he realized girsha weren’t what fjerda made them out to be, he saw the flaws in his thinking and how they hurt others and he changed that, not just bc of nina but bc he wanted to be just and fair) but when books don’t take the time to fully develop these characters and don’t allpw them time to unlearns their hate than it cheapens the affect, kinda like how insta love cheapens the affect of other romance
Matthias unlearnt his problematic behavior and it's hated by chunk of the fandom, as well as the ship with Nina. Yet people love and ship people who never really understood their wrongdoings and just decided to fall in lust/love. YA fandoms smh.
I've read countless enemies to lovers and never once have I read something that was oppressor vs oppressed or asshole vs victim. if you don't want to read those kinds of relationships, then don't read the books they're in.
@@sarcasticdrag0n603 dude we don't read them because we want to. How tf are we supposed to know it's that type of shitty ennemies to lovers if we don't read it? Should we put our hands on the cover, close our eyes and guess?
@@sweetytweety1671 right? such bs amateur logic. the YA landscape is so rampant with them, especially with how many shitty books are being published these days, that it's all too easy to find a toxic romance if you're searching for enemies to lovers. goodreads reviews doesn't help either because all the top reviews are just ones swooning endless praise. plus, with the popularity of the trope it's like every YA author wants to get their hands on the market.
@@shar3859 Exactly! The number of times I got the wrong idea on what a book is about because of its blurb and reviews is crazy! I'm starting to develop trust issues lol but I guess this just shows how desperate they are to sell. Like you said there's so much shit getting published it's hard to make your work standout without resorting to these machinations.
tbh I'm starting to fall out of love with this trope because of the lack of development between the two characters. Its usually the most rushed and poorly developed aspect of the story and rarely makes any sense. And when the two charcaters inevitably end up together I'm always annoyed or asking questions like Where's the development? Build up, tension? ANYTHING? There is rarely any reason at all to like each other and there's barely any development of their liking. There's no conversations no concrete work or effort put into making their love actually interesting to see progress. The most interesting part IS the transition. Where two people go from hating each other to slowly learn each others differences and quirks and blosom into something more but it's often such a huge jump. The most ciritcal, fun, engaging and interesting part is seeing exactly HOW it's happening. Sorry for the long rant but I just really love this trope but it'd rarely ever executed well tbh.
And that is where (in my opinion) fanfic shines. Because of a lack of conventional publishing rules and procedures, writers can delve deep into the interesting parts of stories that may not make to print in traditional publishing. If I'm looking for a slow burn or an enemies to lovers story I only really go to fanfic to find it (of course if it pops up in a fiction book I won't mind, but I don't read them for those dynamics) simply because fanfics have the time and space to develop those relationships when traditionally published books often don't.
@@allbymyshelf4125 agreed. fanfic seriously has its low points but there are some really good amateur authors who put FANTASTIC slow burn content out onto the internet for free. i’d say it’s a guilty pleasure but tbh i’m not even ashamed anymore
I want an enemies to lovers where they don't bully each other, where they actually hate each other but slowly (very slowly, LIKE PLEASE, LET THE ENEMIES PART STAY LONGER) come to terms with the fact that, they're not all that bad, and then very slowly realize they actually might have feelings for them. And please, do not let the big drama moment where they fall apart be executed badly, i absolutely hate it so much when it's done badly, mostly filled with a nice good old angsty at first, then annoying the reader with stupid overused miscommunication, and then that dumb reconciliation that feels bland ASF
For me, the appeal of enemies to lovers is the fact that your potential s/o has seen your worst qualities and yet, that person will still see you as a romantic interest. And, to quote a Tiktok video, those who love them have anxiety issues. Yeah, so, I can see the appeal. -_-
I also think we have to stop holding literature up to the idea of the moral good. Fiction does not have to adhere to societal morals and ideals. It can and is allowed to be problematic and authors don't have to stop writing those stories because somebody thinks it will corrupt a teenager. That's what critical reading skills are for and authors are not responsible to make sure their readers have those. I'm saying this as a future language teacher because I'm sick of colleagues calling every book evil because a young person could get the wrong ideas. Teenagers aren't dumb. Adult romance readers aren't either. And sure, it's great to have books that are mindful of important things (e.g. "I'm not like other girls" trope) but I sure as hell didn't read bloody vampire books with 13 and thought "oh what a great day to spill some blood". I mean sure, some romance books contain actual abuse and it's being romanticized. THAT deserves a callout. I'm still convinced fiction is allowed to stay fiction and deserves to be separated from real life. Would I want an evil elf king to abduct me I real life? No. Would I want to read about an evil elf king abducting the MC and falling madly in love with her and vice versa? Yeah. If that makes you uncomfortable that 100% alright. I have my fair share of tropes I don't like. Just don't project your feelings as the universal truth onto others. Also my taste in fanfiction 👀? Luckily doesn't translate to what I like in real life lmao. But I am always up for discussion about this because it definitely isn't black or white. That said, love your eyes, wow.
Okay but I think a lot of people have proven to be dumb and lacking reading comprehension. And obviously fiction affects reality as much as reality affects fiction. Theres a reason why book burnings and banning happens and it's not because fiction doesnt affect reality and if you're gonna be a lit teacher you should know that
Why is it SO HARD to find other people with this opinion? Love this comment. I think it's so stupid that people take FICTION as FACT. They read a FAKE story and think, "Oh, so this is how it is in real life." Like, NO. LOOK IT UP PLEASE! It's not hard hun, we have super easy search engines, it's craaazy. I wish kids would be taught VERY clearly from a young age that you should never ever take advice from fiction without doing REAL research. I know, you'd think it wouldn't need to be taught but it's obvious that it does need to be. I mean, it's in the name "fiction"... why would you take it so seriously? (Also, sorry this came off as so aggressive, lmao. I do get it, to a degree. For example: You see a character solve a problem you relate to, so you think just maybe you should copy it. Just *please* do research first, to make sure it's the best option. I'm mad because I want the creators to have their freedom... BUT also because I think this is easily avoidable if explained to people as children. I don't want to see fiction hurting people in real life, that really does make me feel sad.)
@@TheNoobler the problem is that young people will always be effected by media made for them, so that media should recognize that effect and act accordingly. A 13 year old reading a book for thirteen year olds that normalizes abuse is going to think it’s ok to some extent if that’s all they see . It is simply naive or wishful thinking to assume anyone who is affected by fiction pushed onto them from a young age will not consciously or not internalize some of it. Obviously fiction for abuts can have whatever themes it wants in it because it’s for adults, but even then condoning abusive behaviours in books like Colleen Hoover does is still disgusting, as it literally seeks to persuade the reader certain things are okay when they are not. You can say “it’s just fiction” all you want, but so is propaganda, and commercials, and shows made for young kids that effects how they think for years to come.
@@TenderNoodle You say that as someone who wasn't taught otherwise, to be fair. I personally was (not trying to say I'm better btw, just talking from my perspective) and I never thought that fiction was something to copy or take advice from at a young age. Not saying everyone will listen if you teach them, but I will make an absolutely HUGE impact if we start teaching people to do real research before trusting fiction (also not saying 10 year olds will do research, but if parents were more open to questions in some cases, kids would ask more... which is a whole other issue). *Part* of the issue you mentioned of abuse being "normalized" to the kid absolutely has to do with adults not doing their damn job, teaching kids to be smart and safe, happy and healthy in any relationship. For sure, people will still trust fiction for whatever reason, but it can save so many people if we talk about it more with younger people. Cause if we're being real, whether you like creative freedom or not (I understand there is a limit to creative freedom, some things are too far), people will always make whatever they want. The *best* thing to do is prepare people. (Also I agree, I can't stand Colleen Hoover personally.)
Rivals to lovers is much healthier and a better take on similar dynamics tbh. I also like the angst of lovers to enemies, but it’s a lot less common. And let’s not also forget about the underrated villain/villain pairings!
It’s also funny to see how people take it very seriously when we respond with stuff like, “and he looked sexy doing it.” I actually saw someone comment on someone saying that they were genuinely concerned about their mental health lol
I think a lot of it comes back to the aspect of "How close yre the actions to real life?" (which you also mentioned in the video). If the enemies-turned-lovers spent their time as enemies trying to murder each other, that is so far removed from real life that no one would seriously think that is something they should be wishing for in their own life (just like no one watches a crime story and goes "looks cool, I should commit a murder!"). But, if the enemies are manipulating, gaslighting etc. each other, this is way closer to real life, something that people might actually have experienced and reading about this being romanticised might lead to them believing that they should strive for such a relationship too. This is especially bad if the relationship in question features a power imbalance, and mostly one character abusing the other. Of course, there's no clear lines between these two scenarios and I don't have any definitive answers myself. But altogether, it comes down to whether or not there is a power imbalance and how "close to real life" the animosity between the characters is.
It took me a long time to realise how much my beliefs were influenced by the stories I grew up with. I don't think any creator can deny the power of media (and yes, that even includes fanfiction writers). People shouldn't be censored for creating or indulging in so-called "problematic" stories. However, at the very least, YA creators should be aware of the influence they wield. For example, the original script of Back to the Future had the time machine in the form of a fridge, but this was scrapped because the director thought it might inspire kids to recreate the scene and end up trapped. I think a good "enemies to lovers" story burdens the characters with heavy consequences, showing that it's not all sunshine and roses. That yes, it's alluring and oddly romantic, but it also comes with problems that can't be swept under the rug.
Yess!! Write enemies to lovers but also make your violent bad boy character realise where his aggression comes from and decide to work on it/go to therapy in order to become a better person for himself and a better partner for his spouse!
I would argue though that I have read stories with "healthy" relationships that as an adult I see as incredibly toxic. The guy being 'protective' is really just controlling, guy being jealous to show he cares is really also him being controlling and showing a lack of trust. A woman helping a guy to be better is just her trying to force a man into this idealized version of what she wants in a partner. In a lot of healthy romances, I see trends that tend to strongly reinforce ideas of traditional masculinity and femininity; the woman providing all the emotional support and the man providing physical protection or financial support, assertions of love through control. Even friends to lovers has that whole friend zone kind of implication; where men and women can't just be friends or if a guy just waits it out, eventually the girl will give in and settle on him. I just think our society is really bad at talking to children, teenagers, and even adults about relationships. People turn towards media and get horrible expectations about what a relationship should or shouldn't be like. I don't ever remember reading a romance where the couple has a realistic talk about the division of childcare and house cleaning. Women have lost the most during the pandemic because they had to take care of the children. People are getting divorced and fighting over the laundry. Seriously, one of the biggest issues people cite in divorce is doing the dishes. It is a huge issue that the burden of child care and house cleaning is still on women, that women had to leave the workforce by the millions during the pandemic and it will take years and years for them to catch up from it. Our standard of "healthy" being that the guy is simply not physically or emotionally abusive is really messed up. I don't believe YA creators have a higher burden here. I think if we want to place a burden on fiction writers to address problematic behavior then we need to see talk more about the division of unpaid labor in the house more than worrying about the enemies to lovers trope, but I wouldn't be too interested in a book like that so I vote for not putting that burden on writers and have a much larger social commentary on it starting in schools by making home economics mandatory for children so at the very least, our youth can enter into relationships and know how to do their own laundry.
@@jamiemayfield3151 i don't know who told you that those relationships you're describing are healthy i've watched videos criticising controlling and jealous behavior in stories
@Jamie Mayfield but you admit to people being influenced by stories? So maybe there's a middle ground between the romanticising of the toxic things you've described as being expected bc of stories and writing a book that states there's a healthy division of unpaid labor. Bc I mean that would have to be shoe horned in bc no book naturally covers who does what in the household. Especially given how little stories even involve the characters living together.
Hi Leonie! I really liked how you explored the nuances of this trope. This types of videos are literally becoming my favorite ones. You really dive into one topic and explains everything very clearly. Could you do a video like this about friends to lovers?? I think it would be so cool to see the other side of the spectrum.
Yeeees! Suspension of Disbelief! That's the point. That is how you can really enjoy this troupe. On a side note, my favorite "villain" in a TV show is Regina from Once Upon A Time! The best!💯 Thks for this video💕
I think it depends on the type of enemies to lovers if I’ll like it or not. For me, the most interesting aspect of a romantic relationship is the level of emotional intimacy two characters have with each other, which is built off of friendship and mutual respect. If I don’t get that development, I’m not invested in the romance.
I think you could try 'These Violent Delights'...that is, if you haven't already read it, considering how hyped it is...oh, and I think 'Kingdom of the Wicked' loosely fits into this, although it's more like enemies-to-something/partners in crime-to-enemies and then its sequel 'Kingdom of the Cursed' will get in the lovers part..I swear, it's not as confusing as I made it out to be!
I second 'you deserve each other' quite literally the entire premise, the growth of the characters really propels the story and makes it both believable how they fell out of and back in love, it's also so so funny, I think you'll love it !
I don't know if you would like it but the classic 'Persuasion' by Jane Austen is Lovers to Enemies To Lovers. It's like second chance romance, i guess?
Emma and Hook and Nina and Matthias are my favorite ships and even though I just joined the Shadow and Bone fandom I've got to admit the fact that we literally got the "we hate each other but there's only one bed" bit is so good and also props to them for being able to keep a straight face when they're playing characters nude in a bed covered in fur carpets
Friends-enemies-lovers is kind of what's going on between the MC and the main male / love interest in my story, and I am absolutely happy to know that it's a fave trope of yours! They weren't enemies for a long time though, just someone her group has been investigating, not knowing that it's that guy friend all along. Loving your channel content and can I say you're absolutely beautiful! Thank you for this video and take care! Edit: the reason I like this trope is because I'm fascinated by people not agreeing with each other, them not having the same views, but eventually they grow to accept each others' flaws and understand each other, plus grow to become better people. It shows emotional maturity and proof that we can coexist as long as we understand one another.
For 'friends-to-lovers' projection is kind of normal, specially as the genre feels 'slice of life'. For 'enemies-to-lovers' I never projected myself onto the main characters because I want to see the development of those two characters and not put myself in any of their place. So yeah we can enjoy both tropes in different settings altogether 😊
I love enemies to lovers but I have mixed feelings on the fandom on the trope. I am behind people loving the trope but not when they gloss over the actions of one party to rationalize shipping it. I think that enjoying somehing 'problematic' in fiction because it's interesting is not harmful but not acknowledging or understanding what makes it problematic IS because it shows a questionable ability to evaluate situations in general.
@Aleah Cim I'm ace and greyromantic. My feelings for the trope depend on the way it's written. I like the intrigue sometimes but not when it's derrogatory for the characters. That said Darklina is not enemies to lovers.
This, I feel people shut down their brains and reject thinking of any connotation, and that bothers me. Maybe I enjoy overthinking what I like but still, I feel people that ignore and downplay problematic issues instead of addressing it reeks of bad media literacy, I enjoy rivals to lovers and a lot of media I like is problematic but recognizing something you like is flawed is part of the experience. I say this as an asexual that loves shipping and don't want romance, I enjoy my fantasies but also overthinking
It reminds me of Zutara (Zuko & Katara from ATLA) now ik Zuko had a redemption but like, just due to the trauma Katara went through as a child and her dislike for Zuko in general I don't think it's a healthy ship..but that"s just me
I'd like to point out that the Beauty and the Beast trope is based on an even older trope and that is the one from Greek mythology: Hades and Persephone
I disagree. I know that it’s popular to conflate Beauty and the Beast to Hades and Persephone, but the *actual* myth that batb draws from is Cupid and Psyche. Hades and Persephone (in the original) doesn’t actually…have much Hades and Persephone in it, it’s about Demeter more
I am really surprised no one has mentioned the 'Captive Prince' trilogy by CS Pacat - I mean that's an absolute perfect example of the 'enemies to lovers' trope!
For me "enemies to lovers" was more like "Romeo and Juliet" so their families/clans are enemies so by default they are too. But they didn't actively decide to be enemies ☺️ But for me "hate to love" is "stronger" because they hate each other more on a personal level.. if that makes sense 😂 But I get where your definition comes from ☺️👌🏻
i get what you mean, but Romeo and Juliet are THE definition of starcross lovers, they originated the term. they are not enemies, their families are, and that's why their love is forbidden and they are starcrossed; they were never enemies. i love the way you said it, though! hope you have a great day
@@marinar.785 I think it's a fairly valid point. There is a "forbidden" aspect to the enemies to lovers trope, and it varies in strength depending on the set up. Being enemies is basically the complete opposite of being lovers, so there's a sense that romance shouldn't be possible between two people who are "so called enemies." By definition, it's a bit of an oxymoron. The reason why Romeo and Juliet is the definition of "forbidden romance" is precisely because they're supposed to hate one another by default because of their families' fued. Starcrossed just means "ill-fated" or "doomed" due to bad luck or terrible circumstances. Not meant to be. A "we can't, and/or shouldn't have what we want" thing. Enemies to lovers is just a remix of that idea.
YES! I love (villans ships) The most since for me, it is so easy to saperate fiction from reality. Liking these tropes in fiction shouldn't dictate our morals, WHILE also there should be a better educational system for people to know what a healthy relationship is. I love the analysis you made on all the sides of this discourse! Thank you so much for making this video!
a good example of “captured by the enemy” is Jon Snow and Ygritte from A Song of Ice and Fire. they’re both the other’s captive at one point, and the relationship is quite interesting. unfortunately, it gets cut short
Enemies to lovers is my favorite trope, and friends-enemies-lovers absolutely SLAPS, it's one of the reasons I love She-ra. I also love enemies-friends-lovers, bc slow burn is my jam
@@MrJordwalk Just saying... lovers can be used in reference to either romantic-interests, OR 'naked-tango'-partners, or both. Please don't try to limit it for other people just because you have a particular preference for yourself. 🙂💜
@@RealVincent1989 literally no. That wasn’t her goal. Respect that. Your ship is trash and not even real. Even tho mal is annoying Alina was madly in love with him, she was never in love with the darkling. She was attracted. And he even sexually assaults Alina at some point and y’all pretend it didn’t happen. There’s nothing of “enemies to lovers” because there’s no love. Alina didn’t loved him. Abs the darkling didn’t love her. He never did. He only uses and abused woman. He did it with genya. He did it with zoya. And then Alina. Simple as that.
My biggest issue with 'enemies to lovers' is that most times, the "enemies" are not really enemies. I want to read a story about people who loath each other, who want to kill each other, but throughout the book learn to love each other, like The Captive Price trilogy- that was the greatest enemies-to-lovers I have ever read. also- in real life, I have zero tolerance for aggression and macho behavior.
I'm really glad I got this video recommended on my feed, you said so many great things and I loved how you wrapped it up, saying education is important to prevent toxic relationships really hit a tone with me! I personally had a really hard time narrowing down why I love the enemies to lovers trope (my fave is rivals to lovers!) until I read a comment on booktok that basically said it reassures you that someone can see the worst parts of you and still love you, and that just made me tear up :D
Hello, Leo. This was a great and informative video. While enemies to lovers isn’t my favorite trope, I don’t shame anyone who likes it. Some pieces media such as After and the Kissing Booth do have me concerned. Enemies to Lovers may contribute to that, but I think it’s more of a romanticization of bad boys or villains. It’s a complicated discussion for sure. The reason why I’m not a fan of the trope is because how overused it’s become. I can like a subtype of that trope (ex. Rivals to Lovers) and a healthy couple based on that trope (Lizzie and Darcy). Others I don’t connect with as much because it’s predictable for me to see where it’s going to go. I just wish that other romance tropes were more popular or maybe try to reinvent romance in a different way. By which I mean have the romance not follow a specific formula. But I know that’s me not suspending my disbelief as one might say. Still a great video. I look forward to seeing more of videos like this.
Definitely enjoyed the video. Got a little too deep for me when discussing policy for kids and young adults at the end there. I personally do enjoy the tension that enemies to lovers brings to a story. I usually like it when the characters are interested in each other first only to find out that they are enemies. I feel that way the being enemies part is just an obstacle to the relationship and not the defining feature.
I adore enemies to lovers. Especially one-sided enemies (where only one of them hate the other, and especially when the person whose hated flirts with the other) to reluctant lovers. Love it so much
I recently read Poppy War. Enemies AND lovers was so intense. Rin/Nezha definitely hits different, because they love each other but it doesn't matter. Their ideas are more important than feelings. Heartbreaking in the best kind of way.
One enemies to lovers interpretation I personally love is when characters are enemies/rivals but get over it pretty quickly and then have to go about their friendship or relationship while pretending to still hate each other, staging arguments, laughing about tricking people, etc, I just find it so gleeful
I love this deep dive into enemies to lovers. You are spot on! I actually do like villain to lover but there are not that many examples. Lol. I also like rivals to lovers. I personally like the really high stakes and drama of enemies to lovers. Give me angst! I love when they are on opposite sides of a war like Daughter of Smoke and Bone trilogy. I don’t like when people attack others for liking a ship. It’s not real. Let people like what they like. I do agree that I find fantasy settings easier to present enemies to lovers as opposed to contemporary fiction.
i saw one meme that said "reminder: a hero would sacrifice you to save the world, but a villain would sacrifice the world to save you" and i was like shhhhhhhhiiii, alright 👀
I don't think it is... Like imagine having to live with the knowledge that a lot of people died because your significant other thought you were more important 🤔😬
Jane Austen wrote the fundamental book that put the appeal of people disliking each other at first and then fall in love in people's heads. Let's thank her ❤️ My favorite ship is Joey Wheeler x Seto Kaiba (#puppyshipping, duh) but I also have a soft spot for Zutara. I just noticed I am not as much into canon couples 😂🤣
This was a great video! Would love to see more like this. :) I personally love reading this trope as it’s entertaining, but I do realise that they may not be an ideal relationship.
honestly i love enemies to lovers but i have a really hard time reading or watching because so many authors/creators think they’re writing enemies to lovers when they’re actually writing bully x victim. and i read a lot of those and so when i was actually bullied i ended up romanticizing it bc my perspective had been warped by “enemies to lovers” when it was rlly bully x victim. so i’ve had trouble getting back into it which is rlly sad bc i do love the trope
My favourite enemies to lovers sub-category which I don't believed you mentioned is Reluctant Friends to Lovers. It mixes both the friends to lovers and the hate to love tropes. It has two people who belong to the same friends group, do not get along, and eventually fall in love. Examples: Ron and Hermione in Harry Potter, and Joey and Pacey in Dawson's Creek.
Best friends to lovers is just as problematic at times. People think that it's common in the real world and just expect their friend to return their feelings because 'best friends'. Enemies to lovers is easier to spot the unrealistic nature to it all imo.
But a real life health relationship always start as a friendship. Most people that start an romantic relationship without being friends usually break up after a few weeks. You first need to like your partner as a friend before liking they as a lover.
@@enzojose4001 yes and no. My husband, who I've been with for 12 years, was a stranger when we met. We didn't jump into romance straight away but we started flirting. We got to know each other and knew we'd make good friends but also made it clear we wanted to try for more. I was referring to long time friendships with no romantic undertones that lead to one party thinking they should be a couple simply because they want it without having indicated or tried to start that dynamic. People think it'll work cause they are friends
@@enzojose4001 she mainly talking about when there are two best friends but it’s a one sided love and they feel obligated for the other to return there feeling which I have the same problems I’ve noticed in a lot of books which have that trope that sometimes they feel like they feel entitled for there best friend to return the feeling and if they don’t it means they didnt deserve you or they make them the villain for not loving you back which makes no sense to me
@@enzojose4001 There is a difference between a friendly acquaintance and a friendship though. An acquaintance implies you get to know each other a little and see that you like each other and not just rush into being together because it was love at first sight. A friend however is someone you are close to, you can trust, you know a long time, and who you originally don't have romantic feelings for. So, friends to lovers is really weird to me. I would never date or have sex with a friend because it's another type of relationship altogether.
@@annap2523 Well, that is your choice and i respect. However, there is nothing toxic about friends to lovers and it make's no sense in compare it to enemies to lovers, that is actually abusive and toxic.
Wow this was really well done, I really like that you explore both sides and I agree with the idea of differentiating what you like to read vs what you actually want to experience in real life
I think the only people to be shamed are those who are advertising these kinds of books to kids and teens. Cause even with education on healthy and unhealthy relationships in school, people can tell when something’s toxic as an adult much more often than a teen can
Enemies to lovers is the best trope out there! And you're totally right, I don't want any of that in my real-life relationship, I just love to read about it. One of my favourites is the Captive Prince trilogy. Most of what's happening between them to a certain point is bad, but I love it so much!
I hoped, that somebody will mention Captive prince trilogy! I love how we see only a little bit of the whole picture, bc we see everyrhing trough Damen's eyes. Then slowly we got to know more and more thing about Laurent. I first hated him as much as Damen, but in the end, I was happy for them. ^^ :3
The main difference, for me, when it comes to crimes and romances being written is how most crimes can be perceived more closely to this is a bad or good thing; the line is more defined. Whereas romance can become a lot more ambiguous in this is a good or bad thing varying from person to person. From their upbringing, religion, self-confidence/worth, surrounding environment a lot can affect how they think roles should function in dynamic relationships. It didn't bother me when I was younger because I was taught the difference between fiction and reality and that bubble didn't extend far beyond me. Now having grown up and seen/seeing what a lot of people will put themselves and/or others through in the name of love or seeking sexual satisfaction is worrisome and even scary. Sometimes I read 'red flags' in popular media and hope that it is being viewed with a critical eye or is known to be problematic-in the real world-by those who consume it.
now, though I personally don’t understand the appeal of enemies to lovers, im neutral when it comes to the topic. sometimes I love the enemies to lovers pairings, sometimes i hate them. it all comes down to how well written it is because, if written poorly, I feel like the dynamic can slip very easily from fun sexy angst to straight up abuse. For example: both “After” and Pride and Prejudice” are considered enemies to lovers, only after gets terms like “abusive” and “toxic” thrown at it. There’s a very good reason for that, and it all comes down to poorly developed characters and arcs.
Awesome video! I also see how some of these characters can definitely be problematic. But then again I see these types of problematic genres/tropes in not books but show or movies.
Enemies to lovers often outlines human fallibility and our tendency to judge before we know the full story. We measure reality from a narrow perspective, and from that perspective, we can make enemies, or develop very negative opinions of others. While it doesn't happen as often as it probably should, its possible to have your perspective completely shifted - to become aware of new things that completely change your opinion of everyone involved. And just like that, the bad guys were just trying to survive all along, and you were actually on the wrong side. Suddenly, the person that fought the hardest against you makes the most sense.
It's one of my favorite genres and I'm always looking for new ones. I can easily spot when a relationship in a enemies to lovers is toxic or quite problematic. I think the most important thing is being able to identify it and understand that this type of behavior is not something you should aim for in a relationship. What bothers me the most is books like The Cruel Prince which the relaationship is straight up toxic being targeted at teens and the author not mentioning this type of repercussion. Some teens don't understand how problematic some of these relatiosnships are and are very influential, so they think this is normal in real life. I know I was an easily influenced teenager and it took me some time to understand some things in relatiobships that were actually toxic and I couldn't see them at first. I'd just like to see authors discussing this more with their audiences when the target are kids/YA. It's okay to like a character even though he's not a "good person", I mean, I love Dexter for fucks sake haha But I understand and I see a lot of people on the internet excusing this type of behavior because said character is hot and not understanding the dephts of this in real life relationships. I am truly afraid of a teen excusing a guy doing something harmful because they they saw this in a book and thus it's okay. Besides all that, I loved your video and how thoughtful you were, you're research shows and I'm leaving thinking a lot about the topic and with a lot of recs. :)
Another side trope I think kiiiinda fits the enemies to lovers is the "loving a villain who pretends to be nice". Examples are Anna and Hans from Frozen, and Pearl and Rose from Steven Universe. I typically don't classify this whole trope as toxic unless there's like abuse or sexual assault. There was this book I once read in my Wattpad phase, where the guy is attracted to the main character, but she hates him. She has to get married to him to save her best friend and while she expresses her dislike towards him, he starts sexually harassing her constantly. Later he gets into an accident and oh magic! She falls in love with him. It's not about being realistic or not, I'm just grossed out by it.
I completely agree with what you're saying! I like this trope in fantasy and feel able to separate them but once they're in contemporary books I think it's harder because it's more irl than a fantasy is as people read fantasy knowing it's, well, fantasy. I hate how toxic some discussions can get and I love how you've done this! Totally agree that it is about separating what people want to explore and enjoy in fiction and what they want/expect irl, but i do get worried when I see people saying oh I read this enemies to lovers book at ten/eleven/twelve bc you're still very impressionable even when you don't realise it. It's hard though bc you don't want to patronise or censor but it can be damaging if you're very young. I honestly have no idea what the best course of action is, unless you have age limits like films? Idk, we have that in our school library which I think is great. Anyway I think this is an amazing video, sorry for rambling 😂!!
I don't like the trope because when a character treats a character I like very badly, I hate them and then I can't find them attractive because *I* hate them. And it's annoying when the main character wants to kiss them while I want them dead.
i more like enemies to lovers where the “enemies” bit is more like annoying the fuck out of each other and being antagonistic but still recognizing where there are lines you shouldn’t cross (which then becomes part of the realization that maybe it isn’t hatred: this person respects the protag’s boundaries even through sarcastic or vitriolic comments, etc). so more like rivals to lovers with a heavy helping of witty banter instead of actual enemies. idk i like reading sarcastic annoying banter
have you ever considered putting the book down? you don't have to keep reading. if you don't like the enemies part of enemies to lovers then don't read it.
love this analysis, so accurate! i wonder why you didn't talk about pride and prejudice when it's one of the first and most popular enemies to lovers book, and also it's not problematic. to me it's the masterpiece of this trope
this is !!!!!! loved loved LOVED this!!! I absolutely need you to do more videos on topics like this, maybe other popular fiction tropes? your long ranting videos about these things are just 👌👌👌
Huge fan of the actual villain X mc/person fighting them trope, and i HATE the fact that it's hard to find anything canon with that trope and fits my taste. So much so, i decided 'Fine, i'll do it myself'. Best motivation to write a story.
You covered this topic really well. Thoughtfully and respectfully dissected deep-dives are what we love around here! Personally, one of my favorite tropes is the slow burn enemies-friends-lovers a la Mariana Zapata
Another big reason why this trope could be problematic or at least not ideal is that it often romanticizes relationships that have very little grounding in the things that make a relationship good. there's often overreliance on sexual tension and underreliance on mutual respect, willingness to listen, and anything else that would make a relationship actually succeed.
Another problem I see is that when growing up, this trope helps society teach young girls that "when a boy is being mean to you, he probably likes you" I was told by so many people (including adults!) that the boy who I saw as my bully was actually interested in me and that I shouldn't respond that unfriendly to him bc it would hurt his feelings. And I was like how?? I'm literally defending myself against someone mean who's annoying the shit out of me on purpose and you're telling me that I should be the one to take a step back?? He even gave me a ring so they were right in some way, but I still felt mocked. On the flipside, when people say that being mean is a sign of the person liking you, it made me feel very helpless bc when I gave him a sharp response or just shouted at him (to leave me alone!!!), it was also seen as a sign of affection, so i didn't know what to do. If being nice is a sign of affection, how can you also read being mean as the same thing, how are we supposed to stand up for ourselves??
I was just going to say I haven't seen many people mention this, it was honestly the first thing I thought of when I think of sort of the origins of the trope honestly. I felt the same way, though less so of people telling me "don't be mean to him back! no no no" because I literally had a kid who "liked me" charge at me and tackle me to the ground and I defended myself and my parents were very glad I did and defended me when we both got in trouble.... but I did feel that sense that if you got angry back they just assumed you liked them back??? Like how does that freaking work exactly? I basically translate that to adult life, like it's running into a really horrendous guy who doesn't take no for an answer.... not good. However, now I would say I can enjoy the trope, but definitely in a high fantasy setting, where it's both the characters going back and forth, it's not one character that is stuck not being able to respond at all because the instigator takes both ends of the spectrum as interest, that still makes no sense to me.
@@TheBookLeo it was a great video. Personally, I like both enimies to lovers because of the changed perception of one another throughout the story, and also rivals to lovers because it shows that working together can help you see more about yourself that you didn't see before.
You touched on something I've always found frustrating. So many people say they hate romance novels, or even romance storylines because they are unrealistic. I say good luck finding a book that is 100% plausible.
great video! my favorite type of enemies to lovers definitely has to include very bad very personal grievances ("you killed my beloved father/sibling/friend" or "you endangered the livelihood of my entire people" type of thing) bc for me this trope is all about insurmountable conflicts and satifsying my curiosity about how they can still be "surmounted". "we're members of warring clans" doesn't have enough internal conflict for my taste, and "you called me jerk that one time a few years ago and now we hate each other" is so vanilla imo that it doesn't even qualify lmao. (like, people describing rwrb as enemies to lovers? false?? misinformation???). who hurt me, i know :// and conversely to how many people dislike this trope bc "what if it happened irl omg call the police", i don't like friends to lovers bc it's too much like real life and gives me anxiety about how any two people in any friend group can start f***ing at any given moment :/
@@lightlawliet3526 CAPTIVE PRINCE FOREVER! honestly this is the ultimate enemies to lovers story for me. i haven't managed to find anything better with this trope
@@viktoriabazyk8193 so true!! i was disappointed it wasn't mentioned in the video!! they go to such extremes and the conclusion is so beautiful!! it is a book that moved me so much i keep thinking about lines from it to this day even tho i read it years ago
@@notstlouise it wasn't mentioned in the video bc leo hadn't read it and even if she would i don't think she'd like it haha. it's too rough. and even if she would like it i doubt she'd mention it bc as far as i can see you can only talk about it in derogatory contexts on booktube, otherwise you get cancelled ://
I feel kind of silly writing a comment in a video from a year ago but I've just become a fan of your channel not too long ago and am playing catch up. I actually recommended this novel in another one of your videos, but the Chinese novel, The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu, has a rivals to lovers dynamic that I think you'll enjoy! Just wanted to reiterate that I'm so glad I found your channel! It really gets me through the work day and I started listening to Brave New World on audiobook on your recommendation! So thank you for that! Keep going strong and I look forward to more videos from you! :D
I always hated that ship but only because how they had her act in season 5 and they made the whole Emma going dark about Hook. It annoyed me because I’m like , I get that they are a couple but can this storyline just focus on Emma please?
I agree with you, and I really think the responsible for this to be an issue is the education, and mostly, the culture. I'm Brazilian, but I imagine that it's not much different in the rest of the Occidental world, at least. We're raised to accept destructive relationships, to want this kind of relation in our lives. When we look at this in fiction and don't realise how problematic that is, it's because we already have another models showing us that something like that is ok.
as someone who’s a fan of the enemies to lovers trope, the “bullies to lovers” trope is the worst one, cause how do you go from bullying them and pushing them against the wall, to loving them?
I would love to see a video where you talk about Gaslighting in fiction. Because sometimes that topic is really good presented (f.ex. Tangled) but there are also toxic relationships in books/movies/TV shows which are romanticised but in real life would cause emotional abuse. Great video btw! ;)
Dramione shipper is here! I particularly love such stories where they are adults and they learn how to communicate with each other being more mature and having more life experience after 6/7 years of antagonistic relationships and a war (or not, if it's AU).
I have always loved enemies to lovers, one of my favorite parts is the banter/bickering, nothing beats a good funny banter, while they hate each other, and just the way the relationship is shown to grow and develop, as you said this trop allows for a good slow burn, which I also love. I have always liked, that if at one point these enemies disliked each other, they have seen the worst of the other person and despite that, they still fell for each other, gives it a more true feeing, and it's always fun to watch, the little moments that change how they see the other person, and how everything starts to change, also the denial, there's that "No this can't be!" moment that I like, because the character is forced to see the changes and to admit them to themselves, and admit that the other person is not who they thought they were before or that the way they are doesn't bother them as much as it did before because now they understand it, On the other hand I know the difference between enemies to lovers, and this person is a lil sh1t, and an abuser but I am growing to love them, which I detest, the hot and cold extremely mean jerk is not my cup of tea, and yes one can dislike a decent person, so... We have standards too, you know. We don't just like any enemy to lovers,
I don’t mind enemies to lovers but the reason I’m not totally in love with it is because I like to imagine myself in the MCs’ shoes and I could never imagine myself being in an enemies to lovers arc. I’m at Taurus so I’m too stubborn for that.
I just copied this from tumblr bc it’s GOLD.
I mean I say I love the enemies to lovers trope but what I really mean is that I love the “enemies to resentful allies in a time of crisis to grudging mutual respect to growing fondness concealed by snark to hurtful betrayal to slow reconciliation with a greater understanding of each other to strange but solid friendship to unexpected feelings to denying their feelings while growing closer as friends to epiphanies of love in the worst possible circumstances to mutual pining to unbearable sexual tension to lovers” trope
excellent
Drop your recommandations
@@farreldjougo6122 Nina Zenik and Matthias Helvar from six of crows. It's funny how accurate the above description is regarding Helnik.
@@farreldjougo6122 A Captive Prince.
@@farreldjougo6122 Red, White and Royal Blue. The main two characters are The first son of the US(Alex) and the other is a prince of England(Henry) and they get caught in an international scandal where Alex and Henry knock over the cake at a royal wedding while fighting and so everyone thinks they hate each other (which they do), and their PR teams decide to be all like ‘they’re actually really good friends. They were just doing a reunion handshake’. It’s amazing and the ultimate comfort book.
I love enemies to lovers. But as a grown person, I know that it not real and I am not looking for a relationship like this in real life. That`s why I read fiction, not biographies. I want to read unrealistically romanticized trash.
hahaha i love that
Preach!
Yeah it's unrealistic but Soo entertaining 😂
I love enemies to lovers only in books too. In real life though friends to lovers would be the best
@@danarodz3275 it's entertaining because it's unrealistic (at least for me)
my only issue with enemies to lovers is when the writer makes it abused x abuser to lovers, luckily I don’t see it very often.
I dislike it so much I just refuse to accept it as a part of the trope. At least whenever I find that in stories most people criticize it and it isn’t generally well received.
I agree with that. That’s was my biggest problem with the cruel prince books with Cardan and Jude
@@fifij6262 BRO I AM READING IT RN and its irking me so much. I cannot stand it. The plot is amazing but holy shit the way I hate cardan rn
*After enters the chat*
@@sugassugar8036 Same, I love the plot but I hate that ‘romance’ between Jude and Carson so much, it’s just not it
Another reason I think this trope's so popular cuz when someone's your enemy they are few of the rare people who see you at your worst---like, when you are mad and when you don't pretend to be likable with them cuz you don't care if they like you or not...from there,if someone can still grow to respect,love or desire you,that means it's a really authentic thing between you both which makes it more romantic.
So true
speaking as someone who loves best friends to lovers, it's kinda annoying when people make it seem like the enemy's the only person who's seen the character at their worst, it's like they're forgetting the other characters/sidekicks who were with the character when it all began
Whoaaa
TRUE!
@@lia.g9796 that only applies if the best friend predates the enemy, which is actually not always the case, AND also only applies if the MC isn't the type to keep their true worstest-worst even from their closest friends.
Plus, some people really like the idea of having a best friend outside of their love-interest. A best friend who can still be there for the MC even through romantic ups or downs that might complicate that if their best friend IS their love-interest?
I personally have totally different, equally-tender places in my heart for both tropes. ^-^
I like me some enemies to lovers. The problem for me comes when it's not in character for an MC to look at the war criminal who murdered her family, burned her village, and destroyed her life, and she's like "but he's hot and he said he was sorry..."
Like, I gotta be able to believe she'd forgive his mass murdering ass.
I agree, they are not really enemies, their dislike is based on misunderstandings
This is how I feel about Drarry. Obviously, Draco didn't murder anyone's family so it's not as extreme, but I just can't see Harry getting over Draco's sins so easily. Talented authors who take the time to write a story where Draco has a change of heart and works to make ammends can make me believe the romance, but there has to be some serious redemption before I can believe Harry would look at him in that light.
Where does the winter soldier fall then?
Children of Blood and bone did this terribly
Children of Blood and bone did this terribly
Pride & Prejudice is the only E2L Trope that I praise. How Jane Austen wrote Darcy & Elizabeth from start to end is just brilliant. Their characters have growth, have realistic human flaws, yet still lovable to the readers. We see the transition and change on how they let go of their first impression (their own pride and prejudice) to the other. It’s not forced… unlike most books that they just suddenly feel sexual tension, hence they forget they hate each other. I think Jane Austen is one of the authors who popularized this trope but not every author can replicate her genius. The setting, character arch, plot, and dialogue is the formula that makes a story fantastic.
Pride and Prejudice is the OG enemies to lovers. It is by far the best one I've read.
@@n.j.1894 ain’t nobody topping Mr. Darcy and Miss Elizabeth even though everyone is trying hard to be them.
@@leeanntan9030 ikr!! The best character development in the history of enemies to lovers
i love P&P as much as the next one but i don't think darcy and liz ever felt more than some animosity towards each other lol.
I'm sorry, but as great as Darcy and Elizabeth are, they are definitely NOT enemies to lovers and I think them being listed as such actually illustrates a thought I have that people kinda soften what an 'enemy' is to the point they are surprised when actual big conflict driven relationships are considered enemies to lovers
"Enemies to lovers" is great and all but for me personally "enemies/rivals to best friends" is where its at 😌
I love your username!
Calling back to the video on friends to enemies to lovers, we were ROBBED of meaningful development in the friends to enemies/rivals to best friends that should have been the heart of the Inheritance Cycle (Eragon)...
Yes!! And found family is pretty amazing too
recs for this? bc YEAH
and rivals to best friends to lovers? top tier
Personally, I prefer the enemies-to-friends-to-lovers trope. The relationship of the characters transitioning into friends after hating one another, and them growing their respect and admiration on a platonic level before realizing they have romantic feelings for the other is so satisfying. Adds a nice slowburn, and gives the characters a different lens to perceive their former enemy as someone better than they had initially thought and then as those perceptions grow, so do their romantic interests
U have any recs? I m looking for such books
@@justarandomstranger2105 in The Owl House this is mane trope in s1 but is cartoon not a book😕
I was looking for this comment! Thank you for the validation 😅❤️
This! Yes! I say this every time whenever this trope is brought up. The slow burn of the relationship is a great way to develop both characters.
Yes! This is my favorite version of that trope. Realizing they were wrong about the person or that the person has changed and they becoming close to them as a friend and then falling in love with them and it completely shocking them
My problem with even the "softer" or "less problematic" enemies to lovers stories, is that it goes into this whole idea that if boys are mean to you, it might be because they actually like you and suck at expressing/dealing with their feelings. (example: the hating game)
i’ve always hated when people said “they’re just mean to you because they like you” like that makes it better? just because someone likes you doesn’t mean you have to forgive them for doing awful things to you
I think that’s a difficult thing tho because we shouldn’t forget that enemies behave the way they behave because well...THEY ARE ENEMIES. In war they Are forced by their side to destroy the other, their love can be a „revolutionary“ thing to Rebell against the war or rivalry between two sides. Now what you describe is often found in modern setting but even here it depends in my opinion on the circumstances, as I feel that woman are acting mean as well which is then never pointed out by the plot.
@@annabella5882 yes it can definitely be more complex than that, but my example with the hating game is (MILD SPOILER ALERT) that by the end of the book, Josh says that he made the conscious decision to be mean to Lucy when they first met, which started this while "enemies" thing, and that just doesn't sit well with me...
I love the enemies to lovers troupe but i seriously hate the "i bully you bc i like you" troupe bc first off its downright toxic to romanticize being bullied/bullying and just cuz they bully you bc they like you doesn't make them any less of an asshole. Also the fact that a lot of impressionable young adults & teens are gonna be reading these books & think its some standard of romance scares me
@@talkingtoawall5123 I agree with that I don’t like this trope either especially what I’ve saw the female protagonist didn’t act much different from the man here. But I don’t think any teenage girl reading that is not able to comprehend that it’s just fiction and not real. We all know how to detect bullying and it’s to serious to put the blame on „girls can’t difference fiction from reality.“ I also think that’s more rival to lovers than enemies. Because enemies are perfect in settings of war, or arguments between families or companies and so on.
i just wanna say i adore those 'analysing' videos u make, they're so entertaining!!😌
thank you! i would love to make more!
@@TheBookLeo I'd love one on either fake dating or friends to lovers; those are my favourite romance tropes
@@TheBookLeo please do the found family trope!
enemies to FRIENDS to lovers is where it’s at
@Rokenrol Bro 2019 yes and no. first they are enemies and when they are become friends, its different; theres no burning hatred no more, they are over it already. but now they are friends in which they already know the worst part of each other (the enemies arc), in this friends arc they are getting know each other in postivie looks. enemies to friends to lovers are likely combined with mutual pining so.... there's fluff and angst and both and you'll be overwhelm by it.
Recs or it didn't happen
I think being aroace it's easy for me to really enjoy "unrealistic" romance tropes like enemies to lovers. Like you were saying, a lot of people seek things that are pure fantasy in fiction that you wouldn't want to happen in real life. Like just because I'm aroace doesn't mean I can't enjoy romance in fiction, and just because I enjoy romance in fiction doesn't mean I'm seeking it in real life. No matter what your orientation or circumstance in life, just because you enjoy something in books doesn't mean you want it in real life
Yes! Because what would that say about the people who read a lot of horror and thrillers. Or love books about cults and serial killers. 😳
That's a thing a lot of people seem to fail to understand. Just because you like something in a book or story doesn't mean you think it would be ok irl, or that you would want it to happen to you.
Even stuff I actually want in real life I don’t always want in real life, eg. I’d love to travel the world in a van in like theory and dreams- but in real life I ain’t that bitch and would actively hate it probably. I’m on the ace spectrum and love reading angsty smut but it’s not for me in practice. Can’t imagine how little I’d read if I only read what I wanted in real like 😂
@@losermillie i also would love to travel the world in a van, but also aint that bitch 🤣🤣🤣 would also love to volunteer to help baby turtles, but in reality im scared of the rest of the animals where the turtels are. 🤣
yes this absolutely !!
What I love about this trope is that as a reader/viewer we get to know the characters and their relationship as they get to know each other. I feel like this is always harder to do with something like friends to lovers because they usually have a past together that the reader/viewer wasn't a part of:)
this is such a good point!
Favorite type: one of them fully believes they are rivals/enemies while the other one has been in love all along (aka the untamed/mdzs). Bonus points if it's blatantly obvious to the reader
That sounds amazing! Do you have any recommendations for this specific trope?
i remember reading a ff on ao3 with is exact premise and it was so cute:,)
I'm going to be honest, I usually go for fanfics with this premise. I don't know if I've read many books like this. Obviously The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, which you can read the fantranslation of online. Maybe Heaven Official's Blessing as well, but I haven't read that yet.
It's basically a miscommunication trope, but with added angst 😁
@@AnanasAbanaan miscommunication is both the most infuriating and interesting tropes out there. if done right it can be really captivating and/or hilarious.
@@imani7979 I think I like it so much because you get all that angst, but you KnoW they will end up together. In real life I'm all for extremely open communication, all cards on the table, but in fiction I love that moment of realization, the 'how did we both miss this, it's so obvious' moment. Bonus for friends running a betting pool, for 'pining for the person you're sleeping with' or 'didn't know they were roommates' subtropes.
As a writer, I often analyze my characters' romance and ask myself those questions- "Is this a healthy relationship?" "Will people assume I'm saying this is ideal?" "Are they co-dependant?"
There comes a point that I have to remind myself that I'm not their therapist and I need to let the characters be themselves. They're not Mary and Gary Stues. They have flaws, so why shouldn't their relationship?
This!! People have to remember that characters are not ment to be moral ideals, and just bc the person wrote them doesn't mean she thinks all that they're doing is great, you don't need to be a villain to do bad shit. It pisses me off even more when it's a story based in an ancient type of world, being historical or fantasy, and they want to put modern day morals and cultures on the characters and judge them on it, it's just peak stupidity
YEAH sometimes people will try to write overly “perfect” healthy relationships and it comes off as virtue signaling or just copping out of writing characters that actually have to talk through the flaws in their relationship
@@ziggy6191 I couldn't have put this better 🙂
I would love to write flawed relationships but I am too afraid that i will be framed for 'romanticising abuse'
Literally as a writer all you need to do is just...not excuse characters actions
Im writing a couple that turns extremely toxic. But guess what? They break up and move on, and both of them end up apologizing. It's that easy!
Read the title as "A deep dive into the "Eminem to lovers" trope"
HAHA
Mom's antihero
As a fellow lover of this trope I highly appreciate that you put all the subtypes because some books people say "this is enemies to lovers" and I'm like "hummnnnn are they really???" LOL
It's probably a very overused trope (and problematic in some ways, sure)... But I still love it so much and I'm not even ashamed 😂
(same hehe)
I Think that even if it is a overused trope, we don't have MANY GOOD BOOKS on this trope ... of all that I've read, only 3 I Liked the take on the trope.
Me too lol
@@simpingfor2d98 which ones?? Im looking for recommendations
@@annevh9315 You probably already know/read it, but here: "The Cruel Prince" (I think it works because of the fantasy environment, even if it's a little toxic (Like, they're REAL ENEMIES at first, and I like that)
"To kill a kingdom", "pride and prejudice" (what a classic) and "The daughter of the Pirate king".
I don't like enemies to lovers in the modern setting ( because its more like, rival to lover and always has a rom-com vibe, when I like angst and pain of faling in love with a enemy/bad, BAD, person XD. ( pride and prejudice being the exception) So I only have those (I said there were few, I read more fanfics about it)
When she said "rivals to lovers", my first thought was two people being rivals over the same love interest and just falling for each other instead.
the editing chef's kiss !!
thank you so much :D
i think the main thing with the idea of “toxic” enemies to lovers has nothing to do with the ship themselves but how individuals treat the ships?? like i LOVE enemies to lovers but darklina gives me a bad taste in my mouth not because of the ship itself (because i think the book does a great job of being a tense relationship and having an interesting dynamic that i supported while reading) but i’ve seen so many people say that darklina MUST be canon and i’ve seen people be cruel to people who like mal or nikolai and so it’s hard for me to get on board. especially with people invalidating leigh’s experience writing this as a way to cope with her own abusive relationship, and her decision not to have that relationship end up being the main one because it was about her own escape from a charming man who took advantage of her. i have a lot of feelings about this cause the concept of darklina hits different but sometimes fan reactions sully that for me. anyway theres my rant loved the video thanks for giving me a space to yell about this
Yes! You just described so well how I feel about darklina! I never quite knew where my distaste for it came from because even tho I didn’t exactly like it in the books, I can acknowledge the tension between them and probably wouldn’t have minded them ending up together, if it would’ve been executed well. It’s much more the (hardcore) darklina fans (like you mentioned) that really made me dislike the ship , especially when I notice them complaining about how mal (and Nikolai) stans apparently constantly hate on them but when I go to the comments of a darklina pic, for example, I either see no mal stans whatsoever or the ones I do see make (most of the time) a pretty valid argument as to why they don’t like darklina and prefer malina and the darklina stans react sometimes pretty aggressively. Anyways I think Alina should’ve ended up alone with Genya, Zoya, Nikolai, etc. as her friends
i think i have a love hate relationship with enemies to lover bc it can be done really really well but a lot of the time it’s enemies to lovers bc oppressor vs oppressed or asshole vs victim and then it’s not really the relationship i have a problem with but the portrayal of oppression, and tbh this can be done very very well (nina and matthias, matthias actually unlearns his hatred, not just bc he fell in love with a grisha but bc he noticed flaws in his logic and bc he realized girsha weren’t what fjerda made them out to be, he saw the flaws in his thinking and how they hurt others and he changed that, not just bc of nina but bc he wanted to be just and fair) but when books don’t take the time to fully develop these characters and don’t allpw them time to unlearns their hate than it cheapens the affect, kinda like how insta love cheapens the affect of other romance
Matthias unlearnt his problematic behavior and it's hated by chunk of the fandom, as well as the ship with Nina. Yet people love and ship people who never really understood their wrongdoings and just decided to fall in lust/love. YA fandoms smh.
I've read countless enemies to lovers and never once have I read something that was oppressor vs oppressed or asshole vs victim. if you don't want to read those kinds of relationships, then don't read the books they're in.
@@sarcasticdrag0n603 dude we don't read them because we want to. How tf are we supposed to know it's that type of shitty ennemies to lovers if we don't read it? Should we put our hands on the cover, close our eyes and guess?
@@sweetytweety1671 right? such bs amateur logic. the YA landscape is so rampant with them, especially with how many shitty books are being published these days, that it's all too easy to find a toxic romance if you're searching for enemies to lovers. goodreads reviews doesn't help either because all the top reviews are just ones swooning endless praise. plus, with the popularity of the trope it's like every YA author wants to get their hands on the market.
@@shar3859 Exactly! The number of times I got the wrong idea on what a book is about because of its blurb and reviews is crazy! I'm starting to develop trust issues lol but I guess this just shows how desperate they are to sell. Like you said there's so much shit getting published it's hard to make your work standout without resorting to these machinations.
tbh I'm starting to fall out of love with this trope because of the lack of development between the two characters. Its usually the most rushed and poorly developed aspect of the story and rarely makes any sense. And when the two charcaters inevitably end up together I'm always annoyed or asking questions like Where's the development? Build up, tension? ANYTHING? There is rarely any reason at all to like each other and there's barely any development of their liking. There's no conversations no concrete work or effort put into making their love actually interesting to see progress.
The most interesting part IS the transition. Where two people go from hating each other to slowly learn each others differences and quirks and blosom into something more but it's often such a huge jump. The most ciritcal, fun, engaging and interesting part is seeing exactly HOW it's happening.
Sorry for the long rant but I just really love this trope but it'd rarely ever executed well tbh.
I think you should try the Throne of glass series or book the crescent city they are both by Sarah J. Mass. Good development
Have you read Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austin? You should, lots of work is placed into it, Jane is a master
And that is where (in my opinion) fanfic shines. Because of a lack of conventional publishing rules and procedures, writers can delve deep into the interesting parts of stories that may not make to print in traditional publishing. If I'm looking for a slow burn or an enemies to lovers story I only really go to fanfic to find it (of course if it pops up in a fiction book I won't mind, but I don't read them for those dynamics) simply because fanfics have the time and space to develop those relationships when traditionally published books often don't.
@@allbymyshelf4125 agreed. fanfic seriously has its low points but there are some really good amateur authors who put FANTASTIC slow burn content out onto the internet for free. i’d say it’s a guilty pleasure but tbh i’m not even ashamed anymore
I want an enemies to lovers where they don't bully each other, where they actually hate each other but slowly (very slowly, LIKE PLEASE, LET THE ENEMIES PART STAY LONGER) come to terms with the fact that, they're not all that bad, and then very slowly realize they actually might have feelings for them. And please, do not let the big drama moment where they fall apart be executed badly, i absolutely hate it so much when it's done badly, mostly filled with a nice good old angsty at first, then annoying the reader with stupid overused miscommunication, and then that dumb reconciliation that feels bland ASF
Another great video !! I have to drop my absolute favourite 'Enemies to lovers ' which has a royal core main element : Anastasia
anastasia!!
For me, the appeal of enemies to lovers is the fact that your potential s/o has seen your worst qualities and yet, that person will still see you as a romantic interest. And, to quote a Tiktok video, those who love them have anxiety issues. Yeah, so, I can see the appeal. -_-
I also think we have to stop holding literature up to the idea of the moral good. Fiction does not have to adhere to societal morals and ideals. It can and is allowed to be problematic and authors don't have to stop writing those stories because somebody thinks it will corrupt a teenager. That's what critical reading skills are for and authors are not responsible to make sure their readers have those. I'm saying this as a future language teacher because I'm sick of colleagues calling every book evil because a young person could get the wrong ideas. Teenagers aren't dumb. Adult romance readers aren't either. And sure, it's great to have books that are mindful of important things (e.g. "I'm not like other girls" trope) but I sure as hell didn't read bloody vampire books with 13 and thought "oh what a great day to spill some blood". I mean sure, some romance books contain actual abuse and it's being romanticized. THAT deserves a callout. I'm still convinced fiction is allowed to stay fiction and deserves to be separated from real life. Would I want an evil elf king to abduct me I real life? No. Would I want to read about an evil elf king abducting the MC and falling madly in love with her and vice versa? Yeah. If that makes you uncomfortable that 100% alright. I have my fair share of tropes I don't like. Just don't project your feelings as the universal truth onto others. Also my taste in fanfiction 👀? Luckily doesn't translate to what I like in real life lmao. But I am always up for discussion about this because it definitely isn't black or white.
That said, love your eyes, wow.
great comment, i think the same :)
Okay but I think a lot of people have proven to be dumb and lacking reading comprehension. And obviously fiction affects reality as much as reality affects fiction. Theres a reason why book burnings and banning happens and it's not because fiction doesnt affect reality and if you're gonna be a lit teacher you should know that
Why is it SO HARD to find other people with this opinion? Love this comment. I think it's so stupid that people take FICTION as FACT. They read a FAKE story and think, "Oh, so this is how it is in real life." Like, NO. LOOK IT UP PLEASE! It's not hard hun, we have super easy search engines, it's craaazy. I wish kids would be taught VERY clearly from a young age that you should never ever take advice from fiction without doing REAL research. I know, you'd think it wouldn't need to be taught but it's obvious that it does need to be. I mean, it's in the name "fiction"... why would you take it so seriously?
(Also, sorry this came off as so aggressive, lmao. I do get it, to a degree. For example: You see a character solve a problem you relate to, so you think just maybe you should copy it. Just *please* do research first, to make sure it's the best option. I'm mad because I want the creators to have their freedom... BUT also because I think this is easily avoidable if explained to people as children. I don't want to see fiction hurting people in real life, that really does make me feel sad.)
@@TheNoobler the problem is that young people will always be effected by media made for them, so that media should recognize that effect and act accordingly. A 13 year old reading a book for thirteen year olds that normalizes abuse is going to think it’s ok to some extent if that’s all they see . It is simply naive or wishful thinking to assume anyone who is affected by fiction pushed onto them from a young age will not consciously or not internalize some of it. Obviously fiction for abuts can have whatever themes it wants in it because it’s for adults, but even then condoning abusive behaviours in books like Colleen Hoover does is still disgusting, as it literally seeks to persuade the reader certain things are okay when they are not. You can say “it’s just fiction” all you want, but so is propaganda, and commercials, and shows made for young kids that effects how they think for years to come.
@@TenderNoodle You say that as someone who wasn't taught otherwise, to be fair. I personally was (not trying to say I'm better btw, just talking from my perspective) and I never thought that fiction was something to copy or take advice from at a young age. Not saying everyone will listen if you teach them, but I will make an absolutely HUGE impact if we start teaching people to do real research before trusting fiction (also not saying 10 year olds will do research, but if parents were more open to questions in some cases, kids would ask more... which is a whole other issue). *Part* of the issue you mentioned of abuse being "normalized" to the kid absolutely has to do with adults not doing their damn job, teaching kids to be smart and safe, happy and healthy in any relationship.
For sure, people will still trust fiction for whatever reason, but it can save so many people if we talk about it more with younger people. Cause if we're being real, whether you like creative freedom or not (I understand there is a limit to creative freedom, some things are too far), people will always make whatever they want. The *best* thing to do is prepare people. (Also I agree, I can't stand Colleen Hoover personally.)
Rivals to lovers is much healthier and a better take on similar dynamics tbh. I also like the angst of lovers to enemies, but it’s a lot less common. And let’s not also forget about the underrated villain/villain pairings!
It’s also funny to see how people take it very seriously when we respond with stuff like, “and he looked sexy doing it.” I actually saw someone comment on someone saying that they were genuinely concerned about their mental health lol
I think a lot of it comes back to the aspect of "How close yre the actions to real life?" (which you also mentioned in the video). If the enemies-turned-lovers spent their time as enemies trying to murder each other, that is so far removed from real life that no one would seriously think that is something they should be wishing for in their own life (just like no one watches a crime story and goes "looks cool, I should commit a murder!").
But, if the enemies are manipulating, gaslighting etc. each other, this is way closer to real life, something that people might actually have experienced and reading about this being romanticised might lead to them believing that they should strive for such a relationship too. This is especially bad if the relationship in question features a power imbalance, and mostly one character abusing the other.
Of course, there's no clear lines between these two scenarios and I don't have any definitive answers myself. But altogether, it comes down to whether or not there is a power imbalance and how "close to real life" the animosity between the characters is.
It took me a long time to realise how much my beliefs were influenced by the stories I grew up with. I don't think any creator can deny the power of media (and yes, that even includes fanfiction writers). People shouldn't be censored for creating or indulging in so-called "problematic" stories. However, at the very least, YA creators should be aware of the influence they wield. For example, the original script of Back to the Future had the time machine in the form of a fridge, but this was scrapped because the director thought it might inspire kids to recreate the scene and end up trapped. I think a good "enemies to lovers" story burdens the characters with heavy consequences, showing that it's not all sunshine and roses. That yes, it's alluring and oddly romantic, but it also comes with problems that can't be swept under the rug.
Yess!! Write enemies to lovers but also make your violent bad boy character realise where his aggression comes from and decide to work on it/go to therapy in order to become a better person for himself and a better partner for his spouse!
I would argue though that I have read stories with "healthy" relationships that as an adult I see as incredibly toxic. The guy being 'protective' is really just controlling, guy being jealous to show he cares is really also him being controlling and showing a lack of trust. A woman helping a guy to be better is just her trying to force a man into this idealized version of what she wants in a partner. In a lot of healthy romances, I see trends that tend to strongly reinforce ideas of traditional masculinity and femininity; the woman providing all the emotional support and the man providing physical protection or financial support, assertions of love through control. Even friends to lovers has that whole friend zone kind of implication; where men and women can't just be friends or if a guy just waits it out, eventually the girl will give in and settle on him. I just think our society is really bad at talking to children, teenagers, and even adults about relationships. People turn towards media and get horrible expectations about what a relationship should or shouldn't be like. I don't ever remember reading a romance where the couple has a realistic talk about the division of childcare and house cleaning. Women have lost the most during the pandemic because they had to take care of the children. People are getting divorced and fighting over the laundry. Seriously, one of the biggest issues people cite in divorce is doing the dishes. It is a huge issue that the burden of child care and house cleaning is still on women, that women had to leave the workforce by the millions during the pandemic and it will take years and years for them to catch up from it.
Our standard of "healthy" being that the guy is simply not physically or emotionally abusive is really messed up. I don't believe YA creators have a higher burden here. I think if we want to place a burden on fiction writers to address problematic behavior then we need to see talk more about the division of unpaid labor in the house more than worrying about the enemies to lovers trope, but I wouldn't be too interested in a book like that so I vote for not putting that burden on writers and have a much larger social commentary on it starting in schools by making home economics mandatory for children so at the very least, our youth can enter into relationships and know how to do their own laundry.
@@jamiemayfield3151 i don't know who told you that those relationships you're describing are healthy
i've watched videos criticising controlling and jealous behavior in stories
@Jamie Mayfield but you admit to people being influenced by stories? So maybe there's a middle ground between the romanticising of the toxic things you've described as being expected bc of stories and writing a book that states there's a healthy division of unpaid labor. Bc I mean that would have to be shoe horned in bc no book naturally covers who does what in the household. Especially given how little stories even involve the characters living together.
Hi Leonie! I really liked how you explored the nuances of this trope. This types of videos are literally becoming my favorite ones. You really dive into one topic and explains everything very clearly. Could you do a video like this about friends to lovers?? I think it would be so cool to see the other side of the spectrum.
I think alot of people find it hard separating fiction/fantasy and reality.
Yeeees! Suspension of Disbelief! That's the point. That is how you can really enjoy this troupe. On a side note, my favorite "villain" in a TV show is Regina from Once Upon A Time! The best!💯 Thks for this video💕
I think it depends on the type of enemies to lovers if I’ll like it or not. For me, the most interesting aspect of a romantic relationship is the level of emotional intimacy two characters have with each other, which is built off of friendship and mutual respect. If I don’t get that development, I’m not invested in the romance.
One trope that I really like is lovers to enemies to lovers! But I never find good recommendations. Would love some
I think you could try 'These Violent Delights'...that is, if you haven't already read it, considering how hyped it is...oh, and I think 'Kingdom of the Wicked' loosely fits into this, although it's more like enemies-to-something/partners in crime-to-enemies and then its sequel 'Kingdom of the Cursed' will get in the lovers part..I swear, it's not as confusing as I made it out to be!
wow okay the perfect recommendation would be "You Deserve Each Other"-it totally fits with what you are looking for!!!Just look up the synopsis!
@@nyx4078 these violent deaths doesn't really have 'full' enemies to lovers since only one character hates the other.
I second 'you deserve each other' quite literally the entire premise, the growth of the characters really propels the story and makes it both believable how they fell out of and back in love, it's also so so funny, I think you'll love it !
I don't know if you would like it but the classic 'Persuasion' by Jane Austen is Lovers to Enemies To Lovers. It's like second chance romance, i guess?
Emma and Hook and Nina and Matthias are my favorite ships and even though I just joined the Shadow and Bone fandom I've got to admit the fact that we literally got the "we hate each other but there's only one bed" bit is so good and also props to them for being able to keep a straight face when they're playing characters nude in a bed covered in fur carpets
Friends-enemies-lovers is kind of what's going on between the MC and the main male / love interest in my story, and I am absolutely happy to know that it's a fave trope of yours! They weren't enemies for a long time though, just someone her group has been investigating, not knowing that it's that guy friend all along. Loving your channel content and can I say you're absolutely beautiful! Thank you for this video and take care!
Edit: the reason I like this trope is because I'm fascinated by people not agreeing with each other, them not having the same views, but eventually they grow to accept each others' flaws and understand each other, plus grow to become better people. It shows emotional maturity and proof that we can coexist as long as we understand one another.
For 'friends-to-lovers' projection is kind of normal, specially as the genre feels 'slice of life'. For 'enemies-to-lovers' I never projected myself onto the main characters because I want to see the development of those two characters and not put myself in any of their place. So yeah we can enjoy both tropes in different settings altogether 😊
Finally someone who understood how "friends to ennemies to lovers" is the superior trope !!
Great video, as always ✨
Agreed!
I love enemies to lovers but I have mixed feelings on the fandom on the trope. I am behind people loving the trope but not when they gloss over the actions of one party to rationalize shipping it. I think that enjoying somehing 'problematic' in fiction because it's interesting is not harmful but not acknowledging or understanding what makes it problematic IS because it shows a questionable ability to evaluate situations in general.
@Aleah Cim I'm ace and greyromantic. My feelings for the trope depend on the way it's written. I like the intrigue sometimes but not when it's derrogatory for the characters. That said Darklina is not enemies to lovers.
^^^^this comment
This, I feel people shut down their brains and reject thinking of any connotation, and that bothers me.
Maybe I enjoy overthinking what I like but still, I feel people that ignore and downplay problematic issues instead of addressing it reeks of bad media literacy, I enjoy rivals to lovers and a lot of media I like is problematic but recognizing something you like is flawed is part of the experience.
I say this as an asexual that loves shipping and don't want romance, I enjoy my fantasies but also overthinking
It reminds me of Zutara (Zuko & Katara from ATLA) now ik Zuko had a redemption but like, just due to the trauma Katara went through as a child and her dislike for Zuko in general I don't think it's a healthy ship..but that"s just me
I'd like to point out that the Beauty and the Beast trope is based on an even older trope and that is the one from Greek mythology: Hades and Persephone
Have you seen something about it like a comment of the author of the first version of the farytale or is this your personal thought?
I disagree. I know that it’s popular to conflate Beauty and the Beast to Hades and Persephone, but the *actual* myth that batb draws from is Cupid and Psyche. Hades and Persephone (in the original) doesn’t actually…have much Hades and Persephone in it, it’s about Demeter more
I am really surprised no one has mentioned the 'Captive Prince' trilogy by CS Pacat - I mean that's an absolute perfect example of the 'enemies to lovers' trope!
Chef's kiss to that series 👌
Yep, and brings up a lot of the issues discussed with enemies to lovers situations
The best imo after that I just hate most books that fall into this trope because they just don't hit as good.
Reluctant Allies/Rivals is one of my favorite romance tropes of all time.
For me "enemies to lovers" was more like "Romeo and Juliet" so their families/clans are enemies so by default they are too. But they didn't actively decide to be enemies ☺️
But for me "hate to love" is "stronger" because they hate each other more on a personal level.. if that makes sense 😂
But I get where your definition comes from ☺️👌🏻
i get what you mean, but Romeo and Juliet are THE definition of starcross lovers, they originated the term. they are not enemies, their families are, and that's why their love is forbidden and they are starcrossed; they were never enemies. i love the way you said it, though!
hope you have a great day
@@marinar.785 I think it's a fairly valid point. There is a "forbidden" aspect to the enemies to lovers trope, and it varies in strength depending on the set up. Being enemies is basically the complete opposite of being lovers, so there's a sense that romance shouldn't be possible between two people who are "so called enemies." By definition, it's a bit of an oxymoron. The reason why Romeo and Juliet is the definition of "forbidden romance" is precisely because they're supposed to hate one another by default because of their families' fued. Starcrossed just means "ill-fated" or "doomed" due to bad luck or terrible circumstances. Not meant to be. A "we can't, and/or shouldn't have what we want" thing. Enemies to lovers is just a remix of that idea.
YES! I love (villans ships) The most since for me, it is so easy to saperate fiction from reality.
Liking these tropes in fiction shouldn't dictate our morals, WHILE also there should be a better educational system for people to know what a healthy relationship is.
I love the analysis you made on all the sides of this discourse! Thank you so much for making this video!
a good example of “captured by the enemy” is Jon Snow and Ygritte from A Song of Ice and Fire. they’re both the other’s captive at one point, and the relationship is quite interesting. unfortunately, it gets cut short
Enemies to lovers is my favorite trope, and friends-enemies-lovers absolutely SLAPS, it's one of the reasons I love She-ra. I also love enemies-friends-lovers, bc slow burn is my jam
darkling and alina are "lovers to enemies", just sayin
No, they aren't. Love didn't exist between them, only lust.
@@MrJordwalk Yes, it existed. If only Bardugo was not such purity culture warrior and explored it
Enemies to lovers to enemies
@@MrJordwalk Just saying... lovers can be used in reference to either romantic-interests, OR 'naked-tango'-partners, or both. Please don't try to limit it for other people just because you have a particular preference for yourself. 🙂💜
@@RealVincent1989 literally no. That wasn’t her goal. Respect that. Your ship is trash and not even real. Even tho mal is annoying Alina was madly in love with him, she was never in love with the darkling. She was attracted. And he even sexually assaults Alina at some point and y’all pretend it didn’t happen. There’s nothing of “enemies to lovers” because there’s no love. Alina didn’t loved him. Abs the darkling didn’t love her. He never did. He only uses and abused woman. He did it with genya. He did it with zoya. And then Alina. Simple as that.
My biggest issue with 'enemies to lovers' is that most times, the "enemies" are not really enemies. I want to read a story about people who loath each other, who want to kill each other, but throughout the book learn to love each other, like The Captive Price trilogy- that was the greatest enemies-to-lovers I have ever read.
also- in real life, I have zero tolerance for aggression and macho behavior.
i wanted to read the captive prince but heard there was r4pe, and it was abusive. biggest ick
I'm really glad I got this video recommended on my feed, you said so many great things and I loved how you wrapped it up, saying education is important to prevent toxic relationships really hit a tone with me! I personally had a really hard time narrowing down why I love the enemies to lovers trope (my fave is rivals to lovers!) until I read a comment on booktok that basically said it reassures you that someone can see the worst parts of you and still love you, and that just made me tear up :D
I love this essay type videos!
thank you! i would love to do more!
Hello, Leo. This was a great and informative video. While enemies to lovers isn’t my favorite trope, I don’t shame anyone who likes it. Some pieces media such as After and the Kissing Booth do have me concerned. Enemies to Lovers may contribute to that, but I think it’s more of a romanticization of bad boys or villains. It’s a complicated discussion for sure.
The reason why I’m not a fan of the trope is because how overused it’s become. I can like a subtype of that trope (ex. Rivals to Lovers) and a healthy couple based on that trope (Lizzie and Darcy). Others I don’t connect with as much because it’s predictable for me to see where it’s going to go. I just wish that other romance tropes were more popular or maybe try to reinvent romance in a different way. By which I mean have the romance not follow a specific formula. But I know that’s me not suspending my disbelief as one might say.
Still a great video. I look forward to seeing more of videos like this.
Definitely enjoyed the video. Got a little too deep for me when discussing policy for kids and young adults at the end there. I personally do enjoy the tension that enemies to lovers brings to a story. I usually like it when the characters are interested in each other first only to find out that they are enemies. I feel that way the being enemies part is just an obstacle to the relationship and not the defining feature.
I adore enemies to lovers. Especially one-sided enemies (where only one of them hate the other, and especially when the person whose hated flirts with the other) to reluctant lovers. Love it so much
Carry On has that trope with the two male leads
I recently read Poppy War. Enemies AND lovers was so intense. Rin/Nezha definitely hits different, because they love each other but it doesn't matter. Their ideas are more important than feelings.
Heartbreaking in the best kind of way.
One enemies to lovers interpretation I personally love is when characters are enemies/rivals but get over it pretty quickly and then have to go about their friendship or relationship while pretending to still hate each other, staging arguments, laughing about tricking people, etc, I just find it so gleeful
I love this deep dive into enemies to lovers. You are spot on! I actually do like villain to lover but there are not that many examples. Lol. I also like rivals to lovers. I personally like the really high stakes and drama of enemies to lovers. Give me angst! I love when they are on opposite sides of a war like Daughter of Smoke and Bone trilogy. I don’t like when people attack others for liking a ship. It’s not real. Let people like what they like. I do agree that I find fantasy settings easier to present enemies to lovers as opposed to contemporary fiction.
i saw one meme that said "reminder: a hero would sacrifice you to save the world, but a villain would sacrifice the world to save you" and i was like shhhhhhhhiiii, alright 👀
Its so sweet ^~^
I don't think it is... Like imagine having to live with the knowledge that a lot of people died because your significant other thought you were more important 🤔😬
The villain would sacrifice you to save their ass.
@@Eleni1002 hshshsh
That is an anti hero not a villain
I love the way you anlayse tropes.. please do these types of videos more often if you can✌️
It's something about Emma and Hook being enemies x lovers and the fact that she's a princess and he's a pirate
Jane Austen wrote the fundamental book that put the appeal of people disliking each other at first and then fall in love in people's heads. Let's thank her ❤️
My favorite ship is Joey Wheeler x Seto Kaiba (#puppyshipping, duh) but I also have a soft spot for Zutara. I just noticed I am not as much into canon couples 😂🤣
This was a great video! Would love to see more like this. :)
I personally love reading this trope as it’s entertaining, but I do realise that they may not be an ideal relationship.
honestly i love enemies to lovers but i have a really hard time reading or watching because so many authors/creators think they’re writing enemies to lovers when they’re actually writing bully x victim. and i read a lot of those and so when i was actually bullied i ended up romanticizing it bc my perspective had been warped by “enemies to lovers” when it was rlly bully x victim. so i’ve had trouble getting back into it which is rlly sad bc i do love the trope
My favourite enemies to lovers sub-category which I don't believed you mentioned is Reluctant Friends to Lovers.
It mixes both the friends to lovers and the hate to love tropes. It has two people who belong to the same friends group, do not get along, and eventually fall in love. Examples: Ron and Hermione in Harry Potter, and Joey and Pacey in Dawson's Creek.
Best friends to lovers is just as problematic at times. People think that it's common in the real world and just expect their friend to return their feelings because 'best friends'. Enemies to lovers is easier to spot the unrealistic nature to it all imo.
But a real life health relationship always start as a friendship. Most people that start an romantic relationship without being friends usually break up after a few weeks. You first need to like your partner as a friend before liking they as a lover.
@@enzojose4001 yes and no. My husband, who I've been with for 12 years, was a stranger when we met. We didn't jump into romance straight away but we started flirting. We got to know each other and knew we'd make good friends but also made it clear we wanted to try for more. I was referring to long time friendships with no romantic undertones that lead to one party thinking they should be a couple simply because they want it without having indicated or tried to start that dynamic. People think it'll work cause they are friends
@@enzojose4001 she mainly talking about when there are two best friends but it’s a one sided love and they feel obligated for the other to return there feeling which I have the same problems I’ve noticed in a lot of books which have that trope that sometimes they feel like they feel entitled for there best friend to return the feeling and if they don’t it means they didnt deserve you or they make them the villain for not loving you back which makes no sense to me
@@enzojose4001 There is a difference between a friendly acquaintance and a friendship though. An acquaintance implies you get to know each other a little and see that you like each other and not just rush into being together because it was love at first sight. A friend however is someone you are close to, you can trust, you know a long time, and who you originally don't have romantic feelings for. So, friends to lovers is really weird to me. I would never date or have sex with a friend because it's another type of relationship altogether.
@@annap2523 Well, that is your choice and i respect. However, there is nothing toxic about friends to lovers and it make's no sense in compare it to enemies to lovers, that is actually abusive and toxic.
Wow this was really well done, I really like that you explore both sides and I agree with the idea of differentiating what you like to read vs what you actually want to experience in real life
I think the only people to be shamed are those who are advertising these kinds of books to kids and teens. Cause even with education on healthy and unhealthy relationships in school, people can tell when something’s toxic as an adult much more often than a teen can
Enemies to lovers is the best trope out there!
And you're totally right, I don't want any of that in my real-life relationship, I just love to read about it.
One of my favourites is the Captive Prince trilogy. Most of what's happening between them to a certain point is bad, but I love it so much!
I hoped, that somebody will mention Captive prince trilogy! I love how we see only a little bit of the whole picture, bc we see everyrhing trough Damen's eyes. Then slowly we got to know more and more thing about Laurent. I first hated him as much as Damen, but in the end, I was happy for them. ^^ :3
The main difference, for me, when it comes to crimes and romances being written is how most crimes can be perceived more closely to this is a bad or good thing; the line is more defined. Whereas romance can become a lot more ambiguous in this is a good or bad thing varying from person to person. From their upbringing, religion, self-confidence/worth, surrounding environment a lot can affect how they think roles should function in dynamic relationships.
It didn't bother me when I was younger because I was taught the difference between fiction and reality and that bubble didn't extend far beyond me. Now having grown up and seen/seeing what a lot of people will put themselves and/or others through in the name of love or seeking sexual satisfaction is worrisome and even scary. Sometimes I read 'red flags' in popular media and hope that it is being viewed with a critical eye or is known to be problematic-in the real world-by those who consume it.
now, though I personally don’t understand the appeal of enemies to lovers, im neutral when it comes to the topic. sometimes I love the enemies to lovers pairings, sometimes i hate them. it all comes down to how well written it is because, if written poorly, I feel like the dynamic can slip very easily from fun sexy angst to straight up abuse. For example: both “After” and Pride and Prejudice” are considered enemies to lovers, only after gets terms like “abusive” and “toxic” thrown at it. There’s a very good reason for that, and it all comes down to poorly developed characters and arcs.
Yeah, I feel every instance of a trope is case by case scenario that depends entirely on the abilities of the writer to pull it off
After was also Real Person Fanfiction at first.
I hate that I’m absolutely positive I’ll never find myself in an enemies-to-lovers dichotomy because I’m ✨non-confrontational✨
Same 😂
Awesome video! I also see how some of these characters can definitely be problematic. But then again I see these types of problematic genres/tropes in not books but show or movies.
yay! my week is complete with this upload🥰🥰
hope you have a great weekend!
Enemies to lovers often outlines human fallibility and our tendency to judge before we know the full story. We measure reality from a narrow perspective, and from that perspective, we can make enemies, or develop very negative opinions of others. While it doesn't happen as often as it probably should, its possible to have your perspective completely shifted - to become aware of new things that completely change your opinion of everyone involved. And just like that, the bad guys were just trying to survive all along, and you were actually on the wrong side. Suddenly, the person that fought the hardest against you makes the most sense.
It's one of my favorite genres and I'm always looking for new ones. I can easily spot when a relationship in a enemies to lovers is toxic or quite problematic. I think the most important thing is being able to identify it and understand that this type of behavior is not something you should aim for in a relationship. What bothers me the most is books like The Cruel Prince which the relaationship is straight up toxic being targeted at teens and the author not mentioning this type of repercussion. Some teens don't understand how problematic some of these relatiosnships are and are very influential, so they think this is normal in real life. I know I was an easily influenced teenager and it took me some time to understand some things in relatiobships that were actually toxic and I couldn't see them at first. I'd just like to see authors discussing this more with their audiences when the target are kids/YA. It's okay to like a character even though he's not a "good person", I mean, I love Dexter for fucks sake haha But I understand and I see a lot of people on the internet excusing this type of behavior because said character is hot and not understanding the dephts of this in real life relationships. I am truly afraid of a teen excusing a guy doing something harmful because they they saw this in a book and thus it's okay.
Besides all that, I loved your video and how thoughtful you were, you're research shows and I'm leaving thinking a lot about the topic and with a lot of recs. :)
Another side trope I think kiiiinda fits the enemies to lovers is the "loving a villain who pretends to be nice". Examples are Anna and Hans from Frozen, and Pearl and Rose from Steven Universe.
I typically don't classify this whole trope as toxic unless there's like abuse or sexual assault. There was this book I once read in my Wattpad phase, where the guy is attracted to the main character, but she hates him. She has to get married to him to save her best friend and while she expresses her dislike towards him, he starts sexually harassing her constantly. Later he gets into an accident and oh magic! She falls in love with him. It's not about being realistic or not, I'm just grossed out by it.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Anna-Hans was lovers to enemies? On the other hand, Anna and Kristoff seem more like enemies to lovers?
your earrings are so pretty!!!! you look gorgeous as always.
I completely agree with what you're saying! I like this trope in fantasy and feel able to separate them but once they're in contemporary books I think it's harder because it's more irl than a fantasy is as people read fantasy knowing it's, well, fantasy. I hate how toxic some discussions can get and I love how you've done this! Totally agree that it is about separating what people want to explore and enjoy in fiction and what they want/expect irl, but i do get worried when I see people saying oh I read this enemies to lovers book at ten/eleven/twelve bc you're still very impressionable even when you don't realise it. It's hard though bc you don't want to patronise or censor but it can be damaging if you're very young. I honestly have no idea what the best course of action is, unless you have age limits like films? Idk, we have that in our school library which I think is great. Anyway I think this is an amazing video, sorry for rambling 😂!!
I don't like the trope because when a character treats a character I like very badly, I hate them and then I can't find them attractive because *I* hate them. And it's annoying when the main character wants to kiss them while I want them dead.
Right?! Like how am I supposed to get behind this ship when the characters have been horrible to each other?
I totally feel the same way lol
this comment is everything T.T haha
i more like enemies to lovers where the “enemies” bit is more like annoying the fuck out of each other and being antagonistic but still recognizing where there are lines you shouldn’t cross (which then becomes part of the realization that maybe it isn’t hatred: this person respects the protag’s boundaries even through sarcastic or vitriolic comments, etc). so more like rivals to lovers with a heavy helping of witty banter instead of actual enemies. idk i like reading sarcastic annoying banter
have you ever considered putting the book down? you don't have to keep reading. if you don't like the enemies part of enemies to lovers then don't read it.
love this analysis, so accurate! i wonder why you didn't talk about pride and prejudice when it's one of the first and most popular enemies to lovers book, and also it's not problematic. to me it's the masterpiece of this trope
The Wrath and The Dawn is actually a retelling of Arabian Nights (also known as 1001 nights in the original Arabic version)
this is !!!!!! loved loved LOVED this!!! I absolutely need you to do more videos on topics like this, maybe other popular fiction tropes? your long ranting videos about these things are just 👌👌👌
Huge fan of the actual villain X mc/person fighting them trope, and i HATE the fact that it's hard to find anything canon with that trope and fits my taste.
So much so, i decided 'Fine, i'll do it myself'. Best motivation to write a story.
You covered this topic really well. Thoughtfully and respectfully dissected deep-dives are what we love around here! Personally, one of my favorite tropes is the slow burn enemies-friends-lovers a la Mariana Zapata
Another big reason why this trope could be problematic or at least not ideal is that it often romanticizes relationships that have very little grounding in the things that make a relationship good. there's often overreliance on sexual tension and underreliance on mutual respect, willingness to listen, and anything else that would make a relationship actually succeed.
Another problem I see is that when growing up, this trope helps society teach young girls that "when a boy is being mean to you, he probably likes you"
I was told by so many people (including adults!) that the boy who I saw as my bully was actually interested in me and that I shouldn't respond that unfriendly to him bc it would hurt his feelings. And I was like how?? I'm literally defending myself against someone mean who's annoying the shit out of me on purpose and you're telling me that I should be the one to take a step back?? He even gave me a ring so they were right in some way, but I still felt mocked.
On the flipside, when people say that being mean is a sign of the person liking you, it made me feel very helpless bc when I gave him a sharp response or just shouted at him (to leave me alone!!!), it was also seen as a sign of affection, so i didn't know what to do. If being nice is a sign of affection, how can you also read being mean as the same thing, how are we supposed to stand up for ourselves??
I was just going to say I haven't seen many people mention this, it was honestly the first thing I thought of when I think of sort of the origins of the trope honestly. I felt the same way, though less so of people telling me "don't be mean to him back! no no no" because I literally had a kid who "liked me" charge at me and tackle me to the ground and I defended myself and my parents were very glad I did and defended me when we both got in trouble.... but I did feel that sense that if you got angry back they just assumed you liked them back??? Like how does that freaking work exactly? I basically translate that to adult life, like it's running into a really horrendous guy who doesn't take no for an answer.... not good.
However, now I would say I can enjoy the trope, but definitely in a high fantasy setting, where it's both the characters going back and forth, it's not one character that is stuck not being able to respond at all because the instigator takes both ends of the spectrum as interest, that still makes no sense to me.
@@MsSilentH thanks, and yes!!
Yay! Getting to see a new video after a long week!
hope you enjoy it!
@@TheBookLeo it was a great video. Personally, I like both enimies to lovers because of the changed perception of one another throughout the story, and also rivals to lovers because it shows that working together can help you see more about yourself that you didn't see before.
You touched on something I've always found frustrating. So many people say they hate romance novels, or even romance storylines because they are unrealistic. I say good luck finding a book that is 100% plausible.
great video! my favorite type of enemies to lovers definitely has to include very bad very personal grievances ("you killed my beloved father/sibling/friend" or "you endangered the livelihood of my entire people" type of thing) bc for me this trope is all about insurmountable conflicts and satifsying my curiosity about how they can still be "surmounted". "we're members of warring clans" doesn't have enough internal conflict for my taste, and "you called me jerk that one time a few years ago and now we hate each other" is so vanilla imo that it doesn't even qualify lmao. (like, people describing rwrb as enemies to lovers? false?? misinformation???). who hurt me, i know ://
and conversely to how many people dislike this trope bc "what if it happened irl omg call the police", i don't like friends to lovers bc it's too much like real life and gives me anxiety about how any two people in any friend group can start f***ing at any given moment :/
agree with rwrb. people have been lying about this one and i got deceived and let down by it. captive prince however.
@@lightlawliet3526 CAPTIVE PRINCE FOREVER! honestly this is the ultimate enemies to lovers story for me. i haven't managed to find anything better with this trope
@@viktoriabazyk8193 so true!! i was disappointed it wasn't mentioned in the video!! they go to such extremes and the conclusion is so beautiful!! it is a book that moved me so much i keep thinking about lines from it to this day even tho i read it years ago
@@notstlouise it wasn't mentioned in the video bc leo hadn't read it and even if she would i don't think she'd like it haha. it's too rough. and even if she would like it i doubt she'd mention it bc as far as i can see you can only talk about it in derogatory contexts on booktube, otherwise you get cancelled ://
I feel kind of silly writing a comment in a video from a year ago but I've just become a fan of your channel not too long ago and am playing catch up. I actually recommended this novel in another one of your videos, but the Chinese novel, The Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu, has a rivals to lovers dynamic that I think you'll enjoy! Just wanted to reiterate that I'm so glad I found your channel! It really gets me through the work day and I started listening to Brave New World on audiobook on your recommendation! So thank you for that! Keep going strong and I look forward to more videos from you! :D
LOVE Hook and Emma. the actor who plays Hook is so dreamy
Lol yesss
Colin O'donoghue is a gem
💖💖
I always hated that ship but only because how they had her act in season 5 and they made the whole Emma going dark about Hook. It annoyed me because I’m like , I get that they are a couple but can this storyline just focus on Emma please?
@@nykerianash1590 ahaha fair enough. Tbh I stopped watching by season 5 so I still love them
I agree with you, and I really think the responsible for this to be an issue is the education, and mostly, the culture. I'm Brazilian, but I imagine that it's not much different in the rest of the Occidental world, at least. We're raised to accept destructive relationships, to want this kind of relation in our lives. When we look at this in fiction and don't realise how problematic that is, it's because we already have another models showing us that something like that is ok.
as someone who’s a fan of the enemies to lovers trope, the “bullies to lovers” trope is the worst one, cause how do you go from bullying them and pushing them against the wall, to loving them?
I would love to see a video where you talk about Gaslighting in fiction. Because sometimes that topic is really good presented (f.ex. Tangled) but there are also toxic relationships in books/movies/TV shows which are romanticised but in real life would cause emotional abuse.
Great video btw! ;)
Dramione shipper is here! I particularly love such stories where they are adults and they learn how to communicate with each other being more mature and having more life experience after 6/7 years of antagonistic relationships and a war (or not, if it's AU).
I have always loved enemies to lovers, one of my favorite parts is the banter/bickering, nothing beats a good funny banter, while they hate each other, and just the way the relationship is shown to grow and develop, as you said this trop allows for a good slow burn, which I also love.
I have always liked, that if at one point these enemies disliked each other, they have seen the worst of the other person and despite that, they still fell for each other, gives it a more true feeing, and it's always fun to watch, the little moments that change how they see the other person, and how everything starts to change, also the denial, there's that "No this can't be!" moment that I like, because the character is forced to see the changes and to admit them to themselves, and admit that the other person is not who they thought they were before or that the way they are doesn't bother them as much as it did before because now they understand it,
On the other hand I know the difference between enemies to lovers, and this person is a lil sh1t, and an abuser but I am growing to love them, which I detest, the hot and cold extremely mean jerk is not my cup of tea, and yes one can dislike a decent person, so...
We have standards too, you know. We don't just like any enemy to lovers,
I don’t mind enemies to lovers but the reason I’m not totally in love with it is because I like to imagine myself in the MCs’ shoes and I could never imagine myself being in an enemies to lovers arc. I’m at Taurus so I’m too stubborn for that.
this colour suits you so well!! (the blue sweater in the beginning)
Girl I love you for makinggg this!!!!
I love these videos of yours, I've never seen anyone express these complex and controversial ideas so succinctly and simply.