'I'm Not Like Other Girls' in Young Adult books
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- today we have a discussion video about the 'i'm not like other girls' trope and how it appears in early young adult fiction books! think twilight, shadowhunters, shadow and bone, red queen etc. Hope you enjoyed this kind of video, i'm a commentary channel now (jk lol...unless?). also i now have even more respect for people who fully edit whole video essays.
Media mentioned in this video:
• Three other videos about the 'not like other girls' trope in general:
By Tiffanyferg: • "I'm Not Like Other Gi...
By Jordan Theresa: • "i'm not like the othe...
By Sarah Z: • "I'm Not Like Other Gi...
• The Aesthetic by ContraPoints: • The Aesthetic | Contra...
• Femininity and the Intersection of Race and Class by Shanspeare: • Femininity and the Int...
• Ain't I a Woman by Bell Hooks: / 250792.ain_t_i_a_woman
• YA Protagonists Still Aren’t Like Other Girls by Ashia Monet: / ya-protagonists-still-...
Timestamps:
00:00 intro
2:51 PART 1: what is the 'not like other girls' trope
4:10 why do girls call themselves 'not like other girls'?
6:07 PART 2: how NLOG appears in YA books
6:39 paranormal romance
7:31 the strong female character
11:48 but why?????
13:05 PART 3: the femininity contradiction
16:31 PART 4: the femininity contradiction in YA books
17:19 the rival mean girl
18:45 male approval
21:46 beauty
24:18 conclusion
24:50 PART 5: modern YA fiction
25:47 PART 6: what did we learn from this?
26:28 outro + bloopers
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🌺 a b o u t m e
Hi! My name is Leonie and I am a 23 year old girl who loves talking about books! From YA to non-fiction to classics, I read it all (although fantasy will always be my fave). I live in the Netherlands and go to university, but make booktube videos in my spare time :)
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we are literally forgetting about the STRONGESt and most feminine female character out there: barbie
REAAAAL
Not really. I mean, although Barbie can be everything she wants, I think she is totally the opposite of a "not another girl"
She is obiously pretty, she dresses in a gorgeus way (has a strong sense of fashion) and has a very feminine attitude.
Barbie is probably the girl who "not like other girls" maje fun of.
However, Barbie is great and being feminine has nothing to do with your valou as a person.
Pink.
@@charlottemulder1478 That's literally what the original comment said. She's strong AND feminine.
@@pnbtg3783 rigth jajsjaja, I just realice
"You're expected to be beautiful, you're not supposed to try." Oh, man. THAT. Is the truth.
It's one of the reasons I see girls irl only putting light make up on and subtle accents, because you're supposed to look prettier by the standard but also don't look like you tried, well, at all really
@@Lizzy3D Yeah, I always thought that was dumb. Like, makeup should be for self expression.
And if you are trying, you are supposed to hide it. But if you are actually not trying you will be claimed "ugly".
i think we're all naturally beautiful i a way, it's just that we're pressured to think that beauty is supposed to be a certain way and if we don't fit that standart we don't feel beautiful
It really sucks that media's depiction of makeup has prolonged me to do skincare, I grew up thinking it was just lipstick and powder but now I know it's getting moisturized and being nice to one's own face. A lot of damage to be undone now lol
Girls: "Can I put on makeup"
Society: "No! You have to be natural! Makeup is false advertisement!"
Girls: "Can I have surgery to my nose/lips/breast/tummy/etc"
Society: "No way! Surgery is only for fake and shallow airheads! Why can't you just be natural"
Girls: *totally natural*
Society: "NO NOT LIKE THAT"
Ok so we’re talking about strong feminine female characters, but how come no ones talking about Elle Woods??!? (Legally Blonde) she is EXTREMELY feminine, and considered a dumb blonde, but puts her mind to getting in to Harvard law, AND SHE DOES. And she gets over her ex, and actually becomes friends with her ex’s ex instead of be coming her enemy just because she is also his ex.
"You got into Harvard?" "What, like it's hard?" So fucking iconic. I love her.
She’s a great character but the movie is supposed to be ironic 🥴 that’s like the gimmick of the movie
And she is socially aware, she doesnt use her privilege to put others down and she understands differences in culture like when that one character said "oh yeah and if I go to your rush you will laugh and call me a dyke behind my back" and then elle states that she doesnt use that word
Elle Woods is an ICON
I agree with you, but it doesn't fit into the subject matter in this video so that's why she hasn't talked about it in this video
“If you read books...you’ll become a brunette” 😂😂
Well, already there! ^^
Would that be less expensive than dying it?
No, no, this is true. I'm not reading a lot of books like before and now my hair went from brunette to blonde. 🤭
*gasp* It can’t be! I awoke from my book slumber of 50 chapters of a book, released a breath I didn’t know I was holding and suddenly my hair was brown and in a messy bun!
It's the brukette virus!!!!
I think one of the saddest things about this trope is that the author never lets the less feminine character be friends with a more feminine character. They’re always enemies. This really bothers and bothered me because I’m less feminine and I still get along so well with more feminine girls my age. The more feminine one is always snappy, high maintenance, and easily jealous. The less feminine one is distanced, doesn’t scare about others opinions, and just “accidentally ends up the center of attention.” All the feminine girls I’ve known are so kind, welcoming, and compassionate. They’re honestly so amazing and wonderful and I’m glad to call them my friends. Plus they make the less feminine character so devoid of emotion which ticks me off because emotion isn’t bad. Emotions are what make us connected with one another. The characters that are more feminine are usually my favs in movies and books because they’re so aware of how they feel and aren’t afraid of showing how they feel.
Izzy from Shadowhunters is feminine and kind and warm while at the same time is super badass and is like a sister to Clary
Mythos Academy! Main character's a typical nerd outsider not so stereotypical female character but Daphne her best friend is a typical girly popular girl
That's why I absolutely love the friendship that forms between Elle and Vivian in Legally Blond.
I think that this is called girl on girl hate or something? I hate this trope so much in books and it is something that I have seen depicted in YA. Usually, the author doesn't bother to develop their minor characters much less their main protagonist who is seen as a horribly written self insert that is a wish fulfillment fantasy for the author.
Most of the time these authors seem to think that people are cardboard cutouts of a personality type when that isn't the case at all. It's part of the reason for why I don't like Twilight because the way that Bella treats Jessica (Jess) is atrocious.
@@moonbunnygw8342 Yeah that's what I thought of as well. Izzy is distant towards Clary at first, but they warm up to each other and eventually become friends. And Izzy is described as gorgeous but also badass and she fights in dresses and high heels and it's always framed as something that Clary is jealous of, but in an admiring way. I love that.
I can't remember Katniss being mean to other "traditional feminine" girls, she was all the time brooding and thinking about "Why am I caught up in this mess?" Hahaha. She was too busy thinking about survival, there wasn't really a moment for her to be feminine since she needed to survive.
Exactly😂 She just didn't see any sense in all the excessiveness of the capitol - may it be from men or women... It was always more about the system than gender roles.
I agree, unless I'm missing something I don't remember her thinking she's better than other girls because she does "traditionally masculine" things. I do remember her being really uncomfortable over her makeover before the games, but that's a more like a personal preference than her thinking she's "not like other girls"
I mean, the girl has other problems to worry about lmao
Definitely at the beginning of the first book as well as the second one
@@amem6378 ok, I was mistaken, it's been a while since I've read THG, but Katniss was like that quite a few times... but well, she's still a better written character than most YA novels, I think, so I can forgive her, while still acknowledging that as a flaw.
I think Katniss herself wasn’t a ‘not like other girls’ girl but she did feed into that trope that caused girls to think that you can only be empowering and strong if you’re brooding, have trauma, have no manners, rude/ aren’t afraid to say what’s on their mind, don’t wear makeup, doesn’t care about appearance, etc. In no way am I saying that Katniss was putting down other women because she had so much other things to care about and only those in the capitol played into that stereotype. I think it’s just a better message to have all types of empowering female characters, be it if you’re girly or tomboy. All girls should be celebrated
I realized over quarantine how many Disney shows include the shallow, hyper feminine character you described...and treat her exactly as you described. A rival, a punch line, etc.
At Stella wasn't like that.
Probably why I loved her lol.
Makes me love that Sharpay got her own movie so much more
I haven't really watched Disney shows but I have watched Disney movies.....that doesn't fall into this troupe like take Charlotte from the frog and princess. It's interesting how most of their shows does that while the animated movies does the opposite
@@nelomew2196 Charlotte was an exception, people still love her and Tiana to this day
@@nelomew2196 Honestly Charlotte is the kind of person everyone would be happy to have as a friend
The first time I read The Vampire Diaries I was shocked to see that the main character was actually the most popular girl in school, had very strong female friendships, and had a good relationship with her ex. I was shooketh.
Would you recommend the books I’ve seen the show but idk if the books are worth the read?
@@rose_bud2147 hi, I’ve never read the entire series of books, just the first 2 or 3 which the show was based off and it was already very different, I know that they branch out and it becomes a completely different story (because of intelectual property shenanigans) but if what you’re after is relationships like those I don’t think it’s the best, from what I remember the relationship between the girls is very different (and I think there is no Caroline, it’s a girl named Meredith)
@@1912carol Oh yeah, I heard they were really different & that all the relationships weren’t the same.... I might give the first book a try and see for there. Thanks!!
@@cleclevon334 Why does it automatically meant if she have great relations and popular is equivalent to Mary sue? Mary sue is only when the rules of the universe bends to her not when the character have stable relations.
TVD is the only show I liked better than the books (that I can remember) mostly cause of yeah, the original author (who didn’t own the story, she was writing it for the publishing company or something) was replaced snd then it just got kinda whack.
An AWESOMe example of great female characters are Katara and Toph, really. Katara was very much a girl, and Toph was quite tomboyish. I loved the scene where Katara gets Toph to do a makeover, and she actually ends up liking it. I loved their friendship!
Seriously, almost all ATLA characters were so well written, both boys and girls. Azula was a strong character- even if she's in no way a role model.
YES THIIS
Avatar is really an incredible series and I want my future children to grow up watching it
Azula was also wearing makeup and loved the girly things!
Was looking for this. God ATLA was so fuckin good
All true. Yes.
I just watched Twilight recently and was struck by how rude she was to the other girls for literally no reason. They were being so nice and trying to invite her to do things with them, and she straight up acted like they were beneath her. 😅
I never got that vibe she was kinda just awkward when it came to prom shopping
@@athenajaxon2397 trust me in the books she's even worse.
Uhh no, I never felt that, as an autistic woman, it felt kinda familiar, like you hang up with people but there's no real connection, that's how it felt with Bella, like she didn't know how to connect or even interact, actually, if she thought someone was lesser, was herself
@@athenajaxon2397 she says a lot of snarky remarks and straight up ditched them multiple times
I find it easier to suspend my disbelief that vampires exist over people practically begging to hang out with her.
The problem with "I'm not like other girls" stereotype is that it ignores the fact that NONE OF THE GIRLS ARE LIKE OTHER GIRLS. We are all different from each other, we are all full of contradictions!
For example, I dress girly, but I like traditional male careers and I don't like to decor🤡 Not everything is feminine or "masculine" about me. Humas are contradictive.
I might seem extroverted, but I enjoy my alone time. I look like I have tons of friends,but my inner circle is actually small. I listen to heavy metal sometimes...other times I listen to kpop like BLACKPINK, all Taylor Swift album and I love classical music...like wtf? I'm pretty sure everyone has a side that no one sees and that is quite peculiar
See? Girls are complex and I'd like to see a book portraying a character like this
Not really contradictive, just complex. Most women actually have both, their whole hyperfemenine moments AND moments when they smell nasty and stay on pijamas the whole day. Because, yeah, in real life people are not tropes nor only defined by one characteristic.
Same
I was waiting for this comment. All of us have different sides and human beings in general are complex beings. It doesn't make sense to put people in one category lol. Also nice to see a blink here,love your user btw jisoo turtle rabbit kim.
God I can’t believe it’s gotten to the point where we have to PROVE we are complex humans beings, instead of that just being the norm
It's because there's a longstanding cultural belief that I don't think people even realize they believe that women don't have complex inner lives. That's why a heck of a lot of young girls go through an NLOG phase at some point in their lives; so much of our media depicts women as shallow and vain. Little girls look inward at themselves and think, "well, I'M not that, so I'm just special." But all girls are complex, all girls are nuanced, all girls have thoughts and feelings and hobbies which define them in complicated ways.
Rose Hathaway from Vampire Academy was one of the first protagonist that enjoyed girly things while also being a strong female character 💕
The only issue I has with her was with the “new girlfriend”...I can’t remember what her name was because I read the first book forever ago but she definitely was really vicious towards her and she was a “traditionally feminine” character. I also vaguely remember her slut shaming another character.
Ikr! I was incredibly happy when I read that book.
I need to check out this series cuz I hear a lot of good things even in 2021
Rose was mean to the Mia (new girlfriend) because she was mean to Lisa I think. When they first got back that Mia was already mean to them because she was jealous, not because she was just girly 😊
@@wei7572 I can see the reason why but if we are talking about the trope it’s still present even if it was warranted. The author decided to put a girl who rejects femininity against a girl who embraces it. I’m gonna use one of the examples mentioned in the video to compare...Clary from TMI doesn’t like Isabelle because she is messing with Simon, her best friend, in the beginning. So even if it’s warranted they’re still in a rivalry with one another and in both instances it’s over a boy (Simon and Lisa’s boyfriend). Does that make sense?
I think with Katniss it’s a whole other story. She rejects vanity, which might be mistaken for a feminine thing. I guess she’s „not like other girls” but not to appeal to men, she just doesn’t have time to do traditionally feminine things and/or doesn’t really care about them, which is not a bad thing.
Plus Katniss has to survive living in Panem and the Hunger Games while having to deal with the Capitol.
I think Katniss's distaste for dressing up is less out of a disdain for femininity and more of a extreme dislike of the rich pageantry of the death match she is being coerced into. Like she doesn't hate dresses or makeup because of internalized mysogyny, she hates being entertainment for an oppressive class of people. She seems to have an issue with Capitol fashion and culture in general, male and female, rather than dresses in particular.
IIRC, Katniss didn't hate dressing feminine, I'm pretty sure she said several times how much she loved Cinna's designs
I think she's only like that just to survive, that's the whole premise of the hunger games and district 12, right?
@@hurricaneofcats Katniss also felt honored when her mother laid out her own dress for her to wear to the reaping.
I love it how inej smashes this concept in crooked kingdom
YES!
That quote was so iconic. It’s one of my absolute favorites.
@DELGAUDIO MARIAANNA when she talks about normal girls
Girls without royalty or special powers
exactly!
@aleahcim crooked kingdom, page 460
I agree with basically everything you said. BUT Katniss isn't like the other girls mentioned in the video ;) Because yes she had the makeover scene, but it was to show how shallow the society around her was and how they were "fixing" her to fit into those beauty standards. I think it was to show how the capitol focused on materialism. And yes she said things like "The other girls" but I feel like it was more to show her trauma and how she can't focus on regular everyday things anymore and how much her life has changed. I also think that she combined typically masculine qualities with typically feminine qualities. Yes, she fights and is brave (which honestly isn't even a typically masculine quality) but she shows compassion and she is a family person and she is kind. I think she embodies a lot of great character traits without putting a gender on it. And yes she had two boys simping over her, but I am still a strong believer that it was never about which boy she was going to choose but what they stood for (Whilst Peeta was Peace and Kindness, Gale was War and violence) and obviously, she chooses Peeta because the entire story was about finding peace in a corrupt society. Sorry for this long comment just thought I put it out there because I think this book is often dismissed as typical ya.
Yes I agree. Katniss is a lot more complex in my opinion and she doesn't quite fit with the others because her reasons and way of thinking makes sense for her situation. If she'd grew up as middle class instead of poverty she'd probably be more traditionally feminine, but she literally had to assume the parental role of the family at such a young age that she didn't had the opportunity to live and think as a normal teenager. She also couldn't afford it even if she wanted to.
I like this take on her cause, tbh, she doesn't fit with anyone, not just other girly girls, I read the books way too long ago, but I remember her having a "click" just with Hamitch because he was as traumatized as her, even more, and had a similar personality, it wasn't about gender, but about trauma and shared experiences.
Honestly in a world like that, who has time or privilege enough to think about girly stuff?
I completely agree with that since in the world of Panem gender roles are not really that important - but status and power are everything. Just look at the depiction of the people in the capitol in the film - their overall excessive and flamboyant fashion that isn't really tied to gender.
And the main reason of the "transformation" really was to show the shallowness of the capitol but also to surprise us with the unexpected bonding with her designer and through that showing the impact of art and symbolism on the viewers of the hunger games.
And I also completely agree about your statement about the choice of a partner. Out of her own agency for thr most part of books she was - very understandably - constantly within survival mode which means she really only wanted to survive - and even more importantly protect her loved ones. The audience of the hunger games - and thus also the less self reflective readers - put a lot more emphasis on her finding a partner admidst a war than any person with common sense would. Which is quite absurd if we think about it in comparison to how we would act within such a situation in the real world. Most likely not that different to her.
Every book inflicted more and more trauma on her and at the end she needs a lot of time to get over her trauma - especially her sisters death - to even live a somewhat normal life again and this at the end eventually adds being with Peeta who can give her what a real and mature relationship should be about.
Even if at some point of the book she was in love with Gale - he lost her forever when he decided he would want to win the war by all means.
All in all her decisions are very logical considering her circumstances.
@@misss7777 YES!! Plus is we have another look into the hole Peeta is peace, Gale is war idea the story is so different. Katniss needs Gale's violence in the beginning because there is no hope in her world. He is basic survival for her. And it takes her a while to accept that Peeta isn't violent because she never thought about things actually changing. And then as the story progresses she can see that there is a possibility of peace, hence why she starts to accept her feelings for Peeta. And when he get's taken away her hopes for peace vanish, because at the same time the rebels she thought meant peace also use her for their agenda. And when Gale kills Prim he takes away her hope and the reason she is fighting in this war: for all the small children in the games. That's why she can't love him anymore. Peeta (whilst being hijacked) hating her means more than Peeta hating her it's about Katniss losing her hope for peace. People argue that she shouldn't have chosen either but that would mean she is giving up on either war or peace, which wouldn't have made sense. And Peeta as well as Haymitch are one of the only few people that understand what she has been through.
I completely agree with you. Plus, I also like her relationship with her sister Prim, who is a more of a 'girly' girl. They are both very good characters with different strenghts and weaknesses, even though I need to admit that I wish we got a bit more of Prim, especielly with the way she was handled in book 3 (trying not to spoil anything haha).
As a teenage girl (17) who does her best to just mind her own business and let everybody do what her makes them happy, it’s STILL very difficult to not feel that judgment towards things that are considered “basic” or even on the other side “quirky”. I get insecure talking about books because I don’t wanna seem like I’m trying too hard but I also get insecure liking popular music cause it’s “basic”. I love a good strong female character and to this day I relate to Katniss Everdeen specifically on an EXTREME level but yet I find it so difficult to find my own unique identity cause it’s so hard to not be judged by various specific stereotypes :/
so don't care about people making fun of you! in society nowadays teenage girls will get shunned for EVERYTHING
@@nawarkhandkar8532 agreed if you like traditionally feminine things you're shallow and your opinions shouldn't be taken seriously...if you like traditionally masculine things you're trying too hard and your opinion shouldn't be taken seriously
With my own female identity, I'm just confused about what I'm allowed to like. I think it's basic to like BTS. Honestly nothing is wrong with BTS, and basic is a HORRIBLE word, but I FEEL that way. I never understood obsessing over real people. I think there's just a stigma overall with liking girly things. And I also have that stigma.
I however, loved manga meant for girls. At first, it was that manga was for girls AND boys and you had both genders reading manga equally. I never felt like reading manga was feminine or masculine. I felt like I could just be me. Then it hit me that I read shoujo manga, which had annoying traits.
The girl would freak out over holding hands or sharing a bottle with a boy and just mundane things like that. The guy would also be this pushy bad boy with no regard for personal space. He also would just telepathically know that she's sad and know exactly what she's sad about. He'd LIKE her with her small boobs and un-voluptuous body and how she's not a girly girl...or how she is too much of a girly girl. He'd just be wish fulfillment and I hated that I was just supposed to love this creature a real woman created to love her and love her only.
Then, when I read boy manga, I ran into similar problems, just with the genders switched. The guys would be bland and boring and the girls would come onto them without the guys doing anything. Or the guys would come onto the girl and she'd scream 'kyaaaaa' like a dainty little snowflake. In other words, there was wish fulfillment for males. It was annoying for both.
The thing is...acknowledging that these stories have little nuance and are just male or female wish fulfillment...it doesn't really mean I would enjoy anything. I know that I'm a product of my society. Feminism makes me question male wish fulfillment and the patriarchy makes me hate female wish fulfillment. I just wanna say to just be you and maybe acknowledge that your enjoyment of things is probably based upon your gender and just don't be ashamed of it. Ultimately, there's no point.
Honestly I would put gender aside for a moment, bc you seem hyper fixated on it and therefore view everything through that lens. Take a step back and try to see the bigger picture. Which is that ppl don’t neatly fit into the expectations that society gives to us. Bc we are humans and not some archetype that will only like a certain number of things. Remember that u are human first and foremost so you can like whatever you want. There is no need to figure out what you are allowed to like bc no one is allowed to dictated what you should & shouldn’t like. You are allowed to like whatever you want as long as it doesn’t harm anyone.
Have a good day :)
You're your own person, don't look to others for approval. No one has the right to tell you what you should like and what your interests should be. If some of the things you enjoy are "basic" or "quirky", "too girly" or "not girly enough", so what? It's your life, not theirs. No one is entitled to judge you for your hobbies (unless your hobbies include killing kittens or something like that...). We're not all the same, everyone has their own interests.
Okay but the makeover in the hunger games is completely different, it is there to show how people of capitol don't see tributes as people, to show the contrast between the glamour of the whole show that almost made you forget that those people couldnt wait to see the children they cheered on die
Yes! It’s more to demonstrate how the capitol sees these people like dolls that they dress up and make fight. It’s also meant to emphasize how Katniss has no choice. She’s complaining about it the whole time in the book because it against her will.
Uhm, this is the exact same excuse that all those other books use as well.
I'm seeing a lot of comments here defending Katniss/Hunger Games, but it seems to me you're all just wearing nostalgia goggles because you happened to like this one more than the other books mentioned.
None of the other books went and spelled out the stuff she said in the video either. They all invented some kind of excuse for why this make-over "has to happen" to our reluctant heroine, before the story can progress further. The toxic pattern only becomes apparent once you take a step back and take a less biased look at it.
@@animalobsessed1
Katniss literally compares herself to a plucked chicken that doesn't feel very glamourous
@@gabiolszowy1878 ...just like all the other heroines also complain about their make-overs, and how intolerable and useless the experience was.
Now, if she actually appreciated/enjoyed the make-over, THAT would have been an original take on the trope.
@@animalobsessed1 No because the makeover is forced on her and later she returns to the before state, she gets leg hair and unplucked eyebrows again, stops wearing make up when she doesn't have to. The makeover is never a positive thing in the series, it dehumanizes her
Literally the epitome of contradiction: I often see boys complaing about girl and saying things like "I want a girlfriend that don't care for eating in cheap places" and that is because they refuse to let girls pay, "i want a girlfriend that don't care for makeup or her body" but they expect girls being naturally perfect, pretty and wit no fat, "i want a girlfriend that is like a boy" but she needs to be very feminine...
Yeah, it's like women can't win; if you're boyish it's bad but if you're feminine is bad too.
@@CursedCatTruffa thats literally what happend to me at school. first, i wasn't feminine enouth, then boys would make fun of me. then, when i've accepeted and embreced my femininity, they were like "but why do you use pink nailpollish? and why make a hole hairstyle just for school?" and I was like: well, DECIDE WHAT YOU WHANT, BRO!
idk what guys you are dating but I would be thrilled if girl wanted to pay for dinner that's something that just does not happen in reality
about second makeup guys just don't like the caked on makeup look they like natural looks more even if natural looks still have some makeup, girls say they do it for themselves, but if guys wore makeup for themselves girls would hate it / invalidate those men who do as weirdos only good to keep around a f*ghag toys lol
and there is a difference between a boyish girl and a girl who thinks she's a boy lol
@@pkeod yea i agree. I'm a girl and I had 0 problem with paying 50/50 lol. It's fair. I think it's really mean when girls expect men to pay for everything yet say they're iNdePeNDeNt
That happens to both sexes) there is a great scene in Tootsie - a film about a guy who dresses as a woman to get an acting job because he is desperate. He’s chatting to a girl he likes and she talks about what she wants a guy to be like. So when he meets her as a guy he does exactly that and she pours her drink in his face. )) What we say we want and what we actually want are very different things a lot of the time)
Just a handful of the reasons why I love Legally Blonde
You would probably like The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel
too
@Princess Resilia omg I also loved her! i used to do ballet so she made me very happy
Same.
And Full Metal Alchemist. Most women there are life goals
Honestly, this trope has been problematic from the very start, and I have first hand experience of the effect it has on girls. Sure, it's great to have a strong female character, but must she be stripped of all feminity in order for her to be that? Because this trope inherently classifies being "girly" as being weak and dramatic, which is not only false to the core, but also stereotypical and sexist. In fact, I don't think there is any need whatsoever to categorise women on the basis of the type of clothes they like, or what they talk about. We need to get over the idea of "girly" and "tomboyish" girls and just let women be who they are. No one should be compelled to behave a certain way because that's what people expect from them based on their appearance. Listen up ladies, YOU can wear jeans or dresses, heels or boots, have it be different every day...and still be a kickass girl/woman.
I wanted to like this comment multiple times!!!
I agree!!!! Let woman be who they truly are
Stuff like this is why I hate the terms "feminine" and "masculine", just let people (regardless of gender) enjoy things like makeup and sports without what they like having a gender label out on it. It's so useless and prevents people from doing what they want because they don't want to be seen as "feminine" or "masculine". The only thing that should be gendered IMO are people and animals that actually have biological sexes. Other than that it's pretty useless. Let people enjoy stuff, jeez.
I like how it has come full circle in terms of what is a problematic trope and is implied to always be the fault of men lol
I remember this attitude back in the 90’s, when most representation came from old men running media corporations. There was no “I’m a woman and I’m strong”. Strong wasn’t part of femininity. There was a feeling that you had to reject all of it, because gender felt like a problem that had to be overcome. The internet came along and gave those who were not rich men the chance to speak for themselves, and it started to change. NLOG was an early expression of dissatisfaction with how there was only one correct way for women to be.
Still today, people stare at me when I am somewhere dressed up in high heels etc. while reading in my book. They think it is unusual that this „Blondie“ is intelligent and not ONLY interested in fashion and makeup. We need to change that ladies.
RANDOMNESS INCOMING:
I hope this is not too random, but can i real quick tell you about something thats just heavy on my mind?
You see, i have a Hobby (aside from more normal hobbys, duh). The Hobby of trying to make UA-cam healthier and safer by using the Report-Option that YT has.
It would be totally cool if you could help with that. It costs you nothing, but also generates you no money, so thats that. Its just to help yourself and the plattform, you know.
Just today, i got someone screaming 'Covid is a Lie! Take off your Masks! REBELLL' deleted, so I'm proud on that,
but truth is, not enough people care. Especially after 2020/2021 got their spirits down, you know.
But we need to act, despite our spirit being low, i say.
If you could spare just a bit of time to flag Bullies and/or Racists and/or P0rn-Uploader and/or Spam-Bots and/or Scammers, it would be so great, honestly...
What do you say?
Reading a book doesn't make you intelligent. And not reading books doesn't make you stupid.
the fact that people think reading books makes you intelligent like??? everyone can read. just because one has blonde hair and wears clothes that are popular right now does not mean you can't read books. you can look like a fabulous b and still read books.
High Heel Book Club, when?
I'm pretty sure your blonde hair has no impact on this or that people are surprised that you are "intelligent" because you read. Most people don't read in public unless it's an e-book on their phone, or they were just curious about what you were reading...
I get over protective of katniss because when I read hunger games I relate to her character so much because she was the provider and has actually experienced how to live having less.
...I hope this is not too random, but can i real quick tell you about something thats just heavy on my mind?!
You see, i have a Hobby (aside from more normal hobbys, duh). The Hobby of trying to make UA-cam healthier and safer by using the Report-Option that YT has.
It would be totally cool if you could help with that. It costs you nothing, but also generates you no money, so thats that. Its just to help yourself and the plattform, you know.
Just today, i got someone screaming 'Covid is a Lie! Take off your Masks! REBELLL' deleted, so I'm proud on that,
but truth is, not enough people care. Especially after 2020/2021 got their spirits down, you know.
If you could spare just a bit of time to flag Bullies and/or Racists and/or P0rn-Uploader and/or Spam-Bots and/or Scammers, it would be so great, honestly...
@@slevinchannel7589 if no one cares, then what's the point of doing it? I mean, if no one really takes offence, then what's the big deal? After all, most people know that these people are just trolling, they're just UA-cam comments. Genuine question, not trying to act rude! I appreciate your effort!
@@bobc7557 ...
@@bobc7557 Thats a very, very simple and superficial view/understanding of the matter. No offense.
@@bobc7557 Thats a very, very simple and superficial view/understanding of the matter. No offense.
Hunger games is genuinely an amazing political commentary and Katniss is a super complex character, other YA books tried to replicate it but ended up making characters who were not like other girls. Katniss is not a dismissal of femininity, she's a political pawn just trying to survive, her entire characterization makes sense, other ya books could never. Her comment that Madge and me are not like other girls is more a commentary on her own poverty and role as caregiver. She almost looks at them with a sort of subconscious envy which makes sense.
Theres some solid characters and development of themes in the Hunger Games, but i always found the worldbuilding to not be it's strongest part. Like, a completely isolated district whose economy depends on the production of one very specific product? Societies don't function like that, stable economies (even exploitative ones) diversify their markets, resources and output. And the Capitol; it provides literally nothing to the districts while taking everything, there should be strikes, acts of sabotage and insurrections every few years.
@@thomaskole9881 not gonna lie the whole "isolated empoverished economy that function only on the production of one product" sounds a lot like Ireland before the potato famine...
@@thomaskole9881 It's almost.. as if... It's a fictional book made for young teenagers... using over-exaggerated fantasy elements to help convey the point... CRAZY right?
@@thomaskole9881I feel like the idea is that people are scared to retaliate and or go on strikes. The hunger games are the way for the capitol to "keep the other districts in their place"
“I’m not like other YA books”
I actually re-read The Hunger Games for a university project, and Katniss was less "pick me" than I originally thought. I was expecting her to completely reject her feminine qualities, but when reading it, I didn't quite see that. The quote you included was quite "i'm not like other girls", but I believe there were only a few of those quotes. Besides, if you think about it, she's criticising classism - not wanting to talk about consumerist goods, such as clothes, probably stems from her austere upbringing.
THANK YOU, I feel like the take that Katniss is "not like other girls" IS really shallow and completely ignores the main themes of the Hunger Games: Class
I’ve had family members get surprised because I read books and wear makeup. Did they think that putting on makeup would make me stop reading or something?
it is a very true known fact that the moment you put on lipstick, your brain stops working
@@TheBookLeo of course, how could I forget?
Personally for me it’s a lot more fun if you turn it gay. Imagine she’s singing about the cheerleader yk?
@@strangerose2749 ??
@@felixsfriendthatgavehimthe2108 omg I commented this on a completely different comment. I don’t why my comments have been doing this sorry.
"Damsels in distress with no agency who only cared about boys" you can say Bella from Twilight it's okay
Or Elena Gilbert
She never acted like a damsel. Edward robbed her of all agency by being an abusive prick. She would have done her best to handle it alone if she could. But Edward put it upon himself to protect her, even against her will at times.
Bella did the best she could in a world she was unprepared for.
I think its about the girl that wrote her. She has a case of the worst internalised sexism that I have ever seen. Of course Bella was not allowed to act like the girl in distress (that would have been soooo shallow). Thus, she wrote her "dreamboy" like this...abusive, controlling, creepy. That writer...she got to find that sexy, right? @@oldstump1628
Your last sentence....really? Honestly? Edward says: You should fear me, I have killed a lot of people" Bella: I don't care. That sentence defines Bella more than anything else. No agency, no moral, no awareness, justing panting after the boy so much that he can literally do with her whatever he wants.@@oldstump1628
@@endlessstudent3512 If she says I don't care to a dangerous situation, then thats not a damsel in distress, just a stupid person.
this whole "not like other girls" era really made me insecure about my figure. I grew up with all boys as a product of my parents divorce so I was a tomboy and loved it but eventually It just morphed into having a superiority complex because I "wasn't like other girls" I had guy friends, I was tough, etc. I would pride myself in being this way, and seem proud on the outside but as I hit puberty I got a more femenine figure and had more curves. I HATED it. This whole idea was the cause for major insecurities I had thought middle school.
Hi i'm súper late but your story reminded me of me. My tomboy self was horrified with my huge boobs lmao i started to use baggy clothes
@@justchilling1506 oh god i remember the dread i used to feel thinking about how much my body was going to change, at that point i was just a tomboy (later figured out i was a trans guy so the dread was way worse), but i got super lucky with my genetics🙏my body didn't really develop noticeably.
i also had a weird "nlog" phase bcs i did FEEL the pressure to be girly, but it was always from adults and never the girls my age so i never antagonized them, in fact i was friends with a lot of "girly" girls. the phase later revealed itself to be "im not like other girls" not because im "better" or "special", but because i wasn't even a girl to begin with☠
"Dear Netflix, We don't want strong female characters, we want strong characters that happen to be a female" - somebody I don't remember lmao sorry
I’m currently reading a court of thorns and roses and five pages in, I said “Feyre’s not like other girls. She hunts and wears pants.” It’s literally such a trope but whatever.
I LOVE ALICE. (From Twilight)
She is feminine, loves loves loves shopping and clothes, but is also SUPER powerful and can stand her own. (Obviously a lot of that is the whole being a vampire thing but its still good)
Shes so pretty also
@@st3ll497 omg yes
Along with Jacob (BEFORE Meyers devolved him into a pedophile o.e) she was the only other character who not only felt like a character but one I unapologetically liked. Now I clearly see why. I never had a "I'm not like other girls" faze. I always loved girly stuff and made no attempt to hide it. Maybe that explains why I had mixed feelings about a lot of these books. I was never boy crazy, but in every other way I basically was "other girls."
@@marcellacassab4331 good for you!
My absolute 💯 fav female character.
America singer is the definition of “I’m not like other girls”
For real tho 😂 I had such a big problem with America while reading the Selection.
@@marisolamaya159 Ik she can be annoying but in the end she’s cares and would do anything to save the people she loves. Eadlyn is worse.
YES
She even tells Maxon that, once.
I think it was in The Elite when Maxon comes to check on her in the hospital after she gets in a fight w/t Celeste, but idk
I still really like America tho. She stands up for herself, and loves her family. Eadlyn is HORRIBLE
America knows she’s flawed while Eadlyn thinks she is literal God
THIS! but in the end of the series, i still love her for standing up for her loved ones
I see Katniss quite a bit differently than you do. I kinda agree that Katniss falls into the strong in a stereotypically masculine way trope, but that's about it. Katniss had no interest in clothes or gossip, but she didn't have an interest in anything that wasn't tied to providing for her family. She seemed to be almost afraid to. She also struggled to relate to other people her age because she had to grow up so fast. I suppose she was introverted, but she never thought badly of traditionally feminine girls. As a matter of fact, her sister who she loved more than anything, was very much a stereotypically feminine girl who loved dresses and was too tenderhearted to hunt, but was much stronger than Katniss could ever be when it came to helping her mother heal and care for her community. Katniss thought very highly of her little sister Prim and her strength in being able to wear her heart on her sleeve, and Prims ability to help their mother heal people. Katniss also never had a negative thought about Delly Cartwright who was gentle, trusting, and saw the best in everyone.
Edit: Grammar and some added comma's.
I like that with Zoya, we see a bigger depth to her after the first book. She doesn't change her personality much, just her rivalry with Alina, but she ends up being many readers' favourite even if she is like the "other girls".
She is my absolute Queen, I'd let her step on me..
And she’s amazing in King of Scars and Rule of Wolves. We finally saw the root of her angst. I love how the books lead through her growth for empathy and letting her trust issues subside.
I personally never really saw Alina as a 'not like other girl' or Zoya as an 'other girl', to me Alina was someone who simply didn't have things because of the circumstances that she grew up in and she wasn't considered beautiful until she started using her power simply because not using it made her sick, but Zoya was considered beautiful by everyone and was only a 'villain' in the first book due to jealousy towards Alina (which makes sense to Zoya's character imo) and then afterwards they start to become acquaintances and kinda friends. That was a bit of an essay rip
@@micropopo i think it’s more about the rivalry or conflict of female characters when they just meet. Alina herself feels very insecure for how weak she looks, and then Zoya comes along looking perfect. That makes Alina stand out as "not like the other girls” imo because women around her don't look as pale as she does, or with dark circles under her eyes. But of course, everyone has different ways of interpreting the books and I like your way of seeing these characters
Man , recently finished reading the last book and I'm in love with joya . The scene where joya gifts her kefta to Alina is so well done
the only girly main character i have seen so far is buffy from "buffy the vampire slayer". it is a pretty old show but it is great. the main character, buffy, is very girly but at the same time she fights vampires and demons. the thing she complains about after fighting and killing a vampire is breaking her nail. it was really interesting watching that scene. it made me laugh and it attached me to buffy even more.
Alina and Katniss din't really have time to care about their appearance and fashion. Katniss lived a miserable life and was going through an incredibly traumatic experience, it's kind of understandable that she didn't feel like cracking a joke. Alina had to save an entire country and was incredibly stressed throughout the books, she and Katniss had other things going on. They weren't trying to hold themselves higher than other women or different or quirky, it just wasn't anywhere near their main priorities. Alina even makes peace with Zoya after the way she treated her in the first book.
Loved this!!! I never thought about it before with the “beauty” part that girls always need this makeover to get together with the guy and the guy just gets together with the pretty girl in the end anyway. That’s messed up.
yes that was such a good observation
Recently I read Crescent city by Sarah J Maas and the main character is into makeup and fashion and loves to party and all this and she’s said something about being like that doesn’t make her less strong or independient. I was impressed when I read it and I think it’s one of my fav characters now
Yeah! I am pretty sure Celaena from TOG is the same in books 1 and 2.
I only read Throne Of Glass by SJM so far and it was surprising to me that the main character is into clothes and fashion but also into reading and eating. SJM and TOG still got a lot of critique for it, that the main character is a shallow princess / Cinderella type. I don't get why because I really enjoyed it, I think it was refreshing after reading about all the Bellas and Alinas and Katnisses... (those three feel like the same exact character tbh)
Ooh I LOVED Bryce for this reason!
@@Julia_sawyer Although I agree with your point, I found it irritating that celaena (and Dorian also) shames/puts down other women at the court for trying to find a guy or caring about dresses.
@@gloria7338 I get how that could be infuriating. I read it more as a critique to them caring more about their clothing than anything else and just turning a blind eye to the atrocities the king was doing. I could also be wrong with the context since it's been such a long time since I read the books.
I think that a lot of authors of these books project themselves into these characters.
Like, I feel like a lot of authors were jealous of the 'girly girls' in high school or still are and try to create a reality in which a girl (aka a projected version of themselves) is loved and liked and admired without having to fit society standards.
Like, it's so weird that Bella gets all the boys to fall for her, when she's plain and not whats usually wanted in society. And that's the case with so many YA protagonists. So I kinda feel like lots of authors just created like an 'alternative reality' type of thing where they would have all they want without having to change for it.
I was thinking this too, and I think it also appealed to the high school girls reading these books because most bookish girls were introverts and felt like they didn't fit in so the escapism was seeing a girl like them wanted when in their lived experience, they were left out and unnoticed.
@@SarahEsmaeWolfe so true! I defently see a younger version of myself in your comment. Because most people's goal obviously is to be loved and desired for who they are and books are often the only way for girls/ people who don't fit a certain standard to feel like that even if it is just escapism
Yeah and they could also write them bc of bad past experiences they had with girly girls who bullied them for not being "girly" enough
@@ham-sley1308 can confirm
She describes herself that way. She has false perceptions of herself. Because what everyone sees in her is completely different.
She’s the tan exotic new girl from a big city.
I don't think Katniss ever made other girls who dressed up and were more feminine feel inferior. She even had a friend named Mage who did dress up but Katniss never spoke ill of her. She did what she had to in order to survive and clothes were the last thing on he mind if she didn't even have food. Under different circumstances, whether she liked dressing up or not, that's completely fine as long as she didn't undermine those who did.
Madge was even the one that gave her the mockingjay pin
Honestly this is why I loved that episode where Katara and Toph had that spy treatment. Toph is made as the tough girl, who's messy, tough, doesn't like being emotional, and rude. And people generally like her more, especially the boys. Because she has so many traditionally masculine traits. Having that episode, where she puts on makeup, and LIKES IT? That was a very good message, to boys who only like masculine girls and to girls who are forced to believe being feminine is inferior
YES THIS! I cried rewatching that scene recently. Especially when Katara tells her she's really pretty 🥺 That show has some of the best written female characters
That but also I would say that Korra and Asami dynamic from TLOK is horrendously underrated.
Most girls by Hailee Steinfeld really was the slap I needed to snap out of my stupid thinking. Btw loved the video
I don't think Katniss Everdeen is "not like the other girls " . She just has to be different , which doesn't mean she is masculine . She has no other choice but to shed that i-m-just-a-child attitude ,if it was ever there , and go ravening into the woods . She has mouths to fill afterall . And she never tried to humiliate the girls who are girly. Love katniss. She is perfect
The femininity contradiction is soo real! As someone who has always felt disconnected from my assigned gender, I wore a lot of pink clothes and had a lot of pink things when I was younger because that was what society expected "girls" to like... but then I was bullied for it and I was soooo confused and started having more blue things because it's not pink and then people thought I was trying too hard and it's just really tiring.
Because you can never win as a woman
That contradiction also exists for guys. Like, you see all these articles about “look at these abs” and drooling over Chris Hensworth and Henry Cavill. But if a guy actively tries to exercise and go to the gym, he’s a “gymbro” and a “jock”.
Plus the fact that on the very same site, you can have articles about “don’t objectify women” and then “look at these guys’ abs”
@@tapirzok because you can never win (on average half of the population is dumber than you, so you cannot expect it to de great at being consistent)
Girls cant win, do what _you_ want
@@GrndAdmiralThrawn I think you're all way too negative about this.
this is such an intelligent video! i was worried that it would be just “the not like other girls trope is bad” - which isn’t a bad take necessarily, i just find that those critiques sometimes ironically come off as misogynistic themselves. your critique was so insightful and i really appreciate the effort you put into it!
I'm losing it at the photo comparisons of the not like other girls and their counterpart rivals...they literally look like the same person
lmao right??
THE ONLY popular example of this i can get over is Tris in divergent... because SURE she represent this "i'm ugly, i don't have a lot of friends and never had a boyfriend" but like... its kind of normal because she was raised to be selfless? and once she is free of that she finally start to discover herself and her own worth... but i really can't with most classical "ohhh i'm so unique and nobody understands me boohoo"
And Katniss . She had no time and money for make-up and fashion
I remember reading Korean romance novels when I was young teen (Twighlight came out later when I was in high-school) and it's the exact same pattern of set ups, and when I talked to my mon she had her own era of these stories while her's would have more "feminine ideal pure innocent and cries a lot" main character, mine would have "nerdy quirky I don't need men I'm smart and independent" female lead who would at some point took her glasses off and became pretty. With all those reading experience I could just straight up guess how the character dynamics/ plot go when I eventually got to Western YA books. It's so interesting too see how it's pretty consistent across time and even cultures.
I one of the reasons I always loved TMI is because of Isabelle and Clary’s relationship. Neither one of them is used to being around other girls, and they’re at an age where society tells them they are competitors. But they get over their jealousy and insecurity pretty early in the series and become sisters. In a way, neither of them is the stereotype you believed in the beginning and they compliment each other because of it. Yes, Clary isn’t outwardly feminine, but she’s emotional vulnerable and generous in a way that society tells us is feminine. Isabelle is the opposite. She’s outwardly feminine, but she’s emotionally unavailable and untrusting which is stereotypically masculine. Izzy actually uses her beauty almost like a weapon to protect herself. I always thought that nuance was important and not in enough of these type of stories.
Yass, I love Clary and Izzy's friendship. It was so wholesome.
I couldn't finish that series because I HATE Clary and Jace's relationship and their characters. It's so bad
@@SimonPetrikov12 I'm currently reading it as a friend recommended it to me. I don't like how their relationship is but maybe it will get better in the last half of the series
I'm currently on book 3, how far did you get?
@ish-shv4475 I quit midway through book 3 but I know their relationship gets more annoying from a friend that has read all of it. Don't want to spoil anything though
@@SimonPetrikov12 really?? no way I was literally finished reading book 3 today. I finished it now. I thought their relationship was annoying before sand I thought it'd be fine now. I'll have to read all of it since I told my friend I was going to anyways. I don't want spoilers so I'll just read it first and see how bad it is. she's been recommending it for a year now, I'd feel bad if I didn't
It’s funny how a lot of people hate “not like other girls” trope but love You belong with me by Taylor Swift 🤔 I love both tho 😂
ybwm came like in 2009 so ofc it had that not like other girls vibes around it
You Belong With Me and Better Than Revenge are my guilty pleasure songs. I do NOT condone some of the messages for sure.
I was young when that song came out and loved it but I always felt bad when the
"she wears short skirts I wear t-shirts she’s cheer caption and I'm on the bleachers"
came on and I always thought "why would she uses skirts to imply a boy should choose her instead?" I peeped this shit in elementary school 👁👄👁
@@ohbooyourselves she doesn't use the fact that the other girl wears skirts , high heels and etc to imply that he should like her better. She just says that she is the typical "nerd' girl while the other girl is the beautiful , popular girl that everyone wants to be like and every guy wants to date. She means that even though she was his best friend he never noticed that she loved him , knew him better than anyone and he was in a toxic relationship with a girl that didn't actually get him but was the stereotypical, perfect girl.
@@chryssie22 I didn't interpret it that way.
Thank you !! I just finished the Selection original serie, and the “not like other girls” feeling is SO overpowering in there ! The main character is just awful to every other woman, except for women who are overly admiring of her... it really scared me, considering the message we’re sending to young girls. Thanks for the video ! Also, where is your standing lamp from ? I really like it :)
Hopefully they'll know enough not to take a character named "America Singer" too seriously...
@@kelleyceccato7025 I just realized how ridiculous her name sounds...
@@kelleyceccato7025 isn’t that a Disney ride?
In defense of Katniss, her fitting into other people is not the focus of the plot. Whether or not she's masculine or feminine doesn't matter in her character.
I feel like Midnight Sun did an amazing job of making me like Bella more as a character, where twilight made her into this trope tbh
from all the reviews i've seen i feel like midnight sun made everyone like bella but hate edward lol
@@wendybijellberg lol true
hated edward so much more after midnight sun 😂
I’m struggling to get through Midnight Sun still because I just can not with Edward 😂
'Wanting [a boyfriend] is side character material' --so accurate! But replace with anything really requiring vulnerability and ambition...
Let's be real here most of the side characters are always the more interesting and relatable one's in books and movies.
I grew up loving makeup, fashion, anime, manga, and comic books. so im both i would say. and i never listened to people that would put me down for not wearing enough makeup and not dressing a certain way that they thought was feminine and i also never listened to people whom put me down for liking anime and Japanese culture. so i just would say "So What?? I like what I like. leave me alone, your opinion doesn't matter." because honestly I could care less about what people think of me. i don't live to please others, live for myself. i love myself.
Sounds like youre an interesting person.
Makes me wonder if i should tell you
about a project/hobby of mine:
Question:
Does God want you to
make the world a better place?
You see, i have a Hobby. The Hobby of
trying to make UA-cam healthier and safer by using the Report-Option
that YT has.
It would be totally cool if you could help with
that. It costs you nothing, but also generates you no money, so thats
that. Its just to help yourself and the plattform, you know.
Just today, i got someone screaming 'Covid is a Lie! Take off your Masks! REBELLL' deleted, so I'm proud on that,
but truth is, not enough people care. Especially after 2020/2021 got their spirits down, you know.
If you could spare just a bit of time to flag Bullies and/or Racists
and/or P0rn-Uploader and/or Spam-Bots and/or Scammers, it would be so
great, honestly...
It would be so simple: I even have the Experience, so i can
real quick tell you where the gathering-places
for problematic people are.
What do you say? Would God want you to do
something helpful that costs you literally no money,
but also generates you no money? Is money the
reason to help strangers? Or will you help the world
without a promise for money?
I mean, i also have another project going on,
a HunterxHunter Fanfiction with RPG Elements,
but i think helping UA-cam is more important, aye?
Exactly, why even care about other people's opinions. Let everybody do and like what they want.
@@sophiexxx455 No.
Thats rather naive.
@@sophiexxx455 If you ignore everything everyone else says about you ever, youre just unable to self-reflect.
So no Enlighment for you, lil Buddha.
I was just jealous of other girls. I didn’t like them because I thought I could never be like them.
They were “effortlessly” skinny, I was fat (I didn’t eat right or exercise so that was my fault but I didn’t want to admit it) They worn makeup, I didn’t like makeup. They worn beautiful clothes, I wore baggy clothes because I hated the way I looked. They were bubbly and nice, I was grumpy and depressed. They hung out with friends, I played video by myself.
I wanted to be happy like them but I wasn’t willing to do the things they did to become happy. Like asking my friends to hangout (I had a fear of rejection), or putting more effort into my appearance (if you hate yourself you don’t take care of yourself), or eating healthier and exercising so I would physically feel better.
I am married now with a daughter and I hope I am able to help her through those awkward teen years so she doesn’t live in her own bubble of misery like I did.
Just saw this video, and I really love it. I'm writing a PhD thesis on YA tropes, so it was wonderful to listen to something that was really informative but wasn't dry, and was actually argued by a reader rather than someone who still thinks YA ended with Judy Blume :') I'd love love love to see more content like this.
Super cute that she thinks YA started around 2010 tho!!
Interesting inversion of “Not like Other girls” I found in the soundtrack for Mulan II. These princesses sing a song about how they want to be like other girls, and talked about how they didn’t want to be prim and proper all the time. They said they wanted chances to be silly, playful, or crass. So that implies that they weren’t like other girls by being traditionally feminine.
My siblings and I used to LOVE Mulan 2 specifically for that song, we grew up with a lot of abuse and isolation and parentification and we had never really heard an inversion song like that !!
As a geeky dad, I've been looking for positive things to give my daughter to read. I got her into fantasy with Zelda games from like 4 years old onward, and now that she's 10, we've read the first 4 Harry Potter books. And there will be no Twilight in our house til she has the wisdom to recognize toxic relationships. XP
Our main form of entertainment is D&D, which I think is the ultimate form of escapism and fantasy entertainment. It allows her to freely express herself and experiment with different ideas and conversations and choices, and it allows me (as the DM) to toss up all sorts of unique scenarios and learning opportunities in a healthy, extremely fun way. But when it comes to young adult novels... blah, all the good ones I know of are written by men, starring teenage boys. What does anyone suggest for a female protagonist-led story series that isn't junk??
Twilight ain't a toxic relationship. Just teach her that books do not equal reality and she's fine.
10 is probably too old, but I loved the Magic Treehouse kids books so much- that’s a brother/sister pair that’s great.
Hunger Games is good.
Honestly Twilight is pretty harmless, it’s like junk food, and has helped a lot of people to read better- so easy to read. It’s plot is so outrageous that it’s not as insidious as so many other pressures. I remember reading it as a tween and thinking the protagonist was kinda dumb but it was fun anyway. She’ll probably be able to see through the fluff, it’s good practice for life anyway. Cinema Therapy & Lindsey Ellis both have good vids on it.
Ahsoka Tano of Star Wars is awesome- if your fam likes that universe. I enjoyed all the E.K. Johnson books a lot, and Padme, Ahsoka, and Leia are all powerful in different ways, providing different possibilities & paths for being strong.
(Movies) Studio Ghibli in general has great heroines who have goals than Disney princesses, (although Frozen & Wreck-it-Ralph are changing that) - Nausicaa and Kiki’s Delivery Service I’m thinking of specifically. (Movies). I think Howl’s Moving Castle was a better book but that is hotly debated.
You are probably familiar with much of this already but those are some recs from a kinda recent teen.
Hope she finds stuff she loves- there is so much good out there.
@@moxmox8058 Thanks for the suggestions! Her mom and I are Star Wars fans, but the kids haven't seen them yet... we might look into those books once we delve into that fandom.
We also like Ghibli, though I think we've only seen Castle in the Sky and Kiki's, and haven't read any books they're based on.
I think she could be ready for Hunger Games in a couple years.
We have some friends with the Magic Tree House books... Might give her one and see if she wants to consume the lot. I remember churning through the Redwall books at a little over their age level and still getting some good reading proficiency out of it (though they got same-y _fast)._
Ehh, we'll see on Twilight. My kid still thinks nothing of boys so the entire subject matter may be dumb to her. She's still the kid from Princess Bride going, "Is this a kissing book?" haha. I think I'll let her follow her interests first, which right now seems to be more focused on the fantasy element (she makes these Harry Potter fanfic comics for fun right now and there are zero romantic relationships... for now).
Again, thanks!
@@SomeUA-camTraveler Perfect! Redwall is awesome! Good idea to let her interests guide her :) best of luck
As much as I support children discovering books themselves, I would strongly suggest to make sure your daughter never reads anything from Colleen Hoover unless she is old enough to see the toxicity in her books. I know Hoover is very famous and I know many people who love reading her books but as a literary major I read and analyzed her novels (and novels of many other YA authors) as dangerous to young girls’ perception of love and relationships. The world of YA can be very harmful to children so please look out for your daughter and make sure to educate her on the difference between fiction and reality. ❤️
Katniss is not the stereotypical "not like other girls" type, when you really think about it. The world around her can't be compared to ours. She grew up in a world where she couldn't think about her appearance or "shallow" things because 1. she's from a poor district 2. food, beauty and free-time activities were rare and valuable. She learned to hunt from her father at a young age so she could provide for her family, who she cares for and is constantly worried about.
At the capital when she experiences "luxury" and has the makeover scene, she is understandably uncomfortable because it's overwhelming.
This doesn't mean that she didn't appreciate and enjoy how makeup looked on her, but she just didn't want to use it regularly. She only ever used it at the propaganda ads and the capital tribute shows. To her, she looked pretty but she felt like it hid all the pain and severity of war when she was shown as a perfect saviour and a tool/symbol for district 13 and the Capitol. She didn't want to take part in the games or to be a hero. She wanted her family to be safe and to survive the games in order to do that.
She didn't have the luxury to talk about boys or gossip, because every day of her life has been to keep herself and her family alive. Gale was her friend (who she considered as her brother at the beginning) because he would also hunt and they grew up close. Katniss was the oldest child and the only one besides her father to know how to hunt. Gale had younger siblings and had to take care of them too.
(I'm supposed to be reading for a test so I couldn't really articulate everything as well as I would've liked, so hope this made some sense)
I loved this so much! I've been thinking a lot about sexism, gender and sexuality as well as heteronormative society. As a very feminine lesbian there are a lot of thoughts about society's perception of women floating about my head 😂 such good analysis of the not like other girls trope! 😊
I'm a very feminine lesbian too!
@@kerrie6084 AMOGUS
The people who ruined feminine lesbians in fiction are the same people who try to convince you that you need to start taking T if you're a lesbian because actually you're a boy
im a very femme lesbian too! i always found that its so hard to deal with these expectations of women for me being so feminine and a lesbian is because on one hand im the exact "stereotypical woman" but im the polar opposite of the lesbian stereotype. like, i just wanna live my life but for some people im playing into stereotypes and for others im trying so hard to defy them and everyone has an opinion on whether its good or bad to defy or follow stereoytpes and its exhausting honestly 😭😭
There should be a club for femme lesbians where we can all get together and bond over our shared struggles.
I grew up liking both stereotypically feminine and masculine things, and I always wondered why there weren’t any characters that were like me. It was always either you were a tomboy and “not like other girls” or you were extremely feminine and liked makeup. It made me feel weird for wanting to be both feminine and masculine, and that I had to pick a side. Also kids in my class making fun of me for still liking “girly” shows like my little pony and powerpuff girls didn’t help
Aaannnnd this is why Buffy was my role model as a teenager. Strong and serious at times yet quirky and feminine.
I’d like to think that any characters I write are what “I’m not like other girls” should be defined as… “my parents educated me themselves”, “I was diagnosed with a learning disability of some sort”, “I save looking like my sex for a situation that calls for it” (example: School dance adjacent event, Black tie event, church if you grow up in a religious household, etc. etc.), are your characters human or human adjacent creatures? Let them have their ugly duckling transformation and have them go back to being an ugly duckling in the next scene, the transformation doesn’t and shouldn’t have to be treated as permanent, girls can/should be allowed to be comfortable day in and day out and have situation specific self-imposed dress codes… self-imposed being the key phrase.
Are you literally only talking about clothes?
Also, the ugly duckling story was about not judging others by their cover, and not writing them off as worthless at present, when they haven't fulfilled their potential which may come in the future.
And also also the transformation in that correct context is permanent. It symbolises growth at a personal level. Best way to explain it: You have a death in the family. It affects you, forces you to confront some realities, forces you to get stronger. You can never un-growth yourself as a person. It's permanent.
As a thought (and being waaaay too late to this), Western society has tended to both reward and punish women who take on masculine traits. The successful women we hear about in business and politics tend to behave in a more assertive, confident manner, although they are also often expected to dress in a feminine manner, with dresses or skirts as well as blazers, and plenty of makeup. "Strength" is inherently coded in Western society as "masculine".
Funny though that the characters with trad. masculine characteristics (Alina, etc.) are often a little passive and the traditionally feminine ones are much more extroverted and even aggressive. Just a thought, the not-like-other-girls troupe might be more based on traditional "modest" feminity than we notice. Cool video, by the way, brought me right back to my not-like-other-girls days with the fine vintage memes!
As an recovering pick me girl it absolutely is have giant modest femininity elements more than anything.
Cool video. Made me think of this song:
“Most girls
Are strong and brave and beautiful
Most girls work hard, go far, we are unstoppable
I wanna be like most girls”
When I was in high school I had a very femme look. It was my attempt to actually care for my self. Make up and skirts. It kept me on the path to put effort in life. Oh boy was I bashed on by other girls. They assumed my parents were overly protective. That I was suppressed and naïve or stuck up. I barely got that from guys (who didn't really pay much attention to me guess they were too busy with their own issues.) Rites of passage. Learning your place in the world and such. Makes you either conform to everyone's expectations or grow out of the need to please others. Thankfully I ignored it.
I recently read a YA manga, Blue Flag, which had a really good discussion about this topic where the side character is obviously "that girl" and she explains that whatever she does she's always the bad one, she's responsible for her friends breakups because she's too pretty and even when she drastically change her appearance and act like boys everyone's mad at her because it doesn't fit her and she must go back to what she looked like. It was something I never saw in a book espacially in mangas
I also found an interesting manga called No More Miniskirts, I think. It's about Japanese high school girls and criticizes their sexualisation as girls who dress more masculine are shunned and seen as weird while those who dress in a more feminine way are often sexually harassed with the excuse that they are asking for it. It's really good and shows the hipocrisy concerning girls within Western and especially Japanese society.
Another great video! I was definitely effected by the “not like other girls” trope in the early 2010s. I was a preteen at the time and I guess I thought being “not like others girls” or “weird” would make me special lol. I’m 18 now and have luckily grown out of that phase but the YA I read from age 11-14 will always remind me of my cringy era lol-
What clothes were the girls in District 12 talking about ? 😂 Honestly I can understand why Katniss was judging them, life was super hard so I’d get annoyed too, especially at 16. Now that I’m 22 I understand that it was probably a way for them to « escape » their reality of oppression and poverty. Gotta find joy in the small things
One character that is the best example of femininely badass is Daphne Blake, in the early 2000's live action Scooby-Doo movies. She is still the same character as she always was, feminine, the pretty character, the one everyone's entranced with, but despite that, she is smart, strong, amazing at fighting, and it doesn't contrast with her character because it makes sense for her to stay pretty, because that's what she loves, and be strong. My favorite woman in media, 100%
For me it's both Daphne and Buffy from Buffy the vampire slayer. Which is ironic because they're played by the same actress
I love the video!!
I think Six of crows is an example of the opposite of nlog, I mean the girls are strong and that's it, or they are a bit more feminine, in Nina's case
@Doofus Inej worked in Menagerie, she used to wear feminine clothes as a means of attracting customers, sexualized for being ‘exotic’ just because of her color/race that she didn’t choose. I can say that she doesn’t have this NLOG mindset because for a person who endured this kind of trauma, she’s still level-headed and doesn’t isolate herself to become the “different one”. She even tries to understand everyone while dealing with her own issues which is a beautiful type of belongingness. Masculinity isn’t a type of trait. She’s just simply a helpless girl who became a strong woman because she chose not to be exploited anymore.
I want to write the kind of story where it’s like “Some people would say she wasn’t like the other girls, but in reality, she was just autistic”
I think what's important here is variety. Having a variety of feminine, masculine, and androgynous female characters.
I've always strongly distanced myself from and disliked terms like "masculine" and "feminine" because I find them limiting to my expression, I like things that might be considered feminine or masculine, but I don't consider them that way, I just consider them things I like, not everything has to be gendered(ex. I like sewing, and many people consider that a feminine hobby, but I don't. I don't consider it a masculine or androgynous hobby either, I just consider it a hobby I like that doesn't have to have a gendered label attached to it), I've found that the best option for me is just to be myself without worrying about labels and which one I fit into, but of course, not everyone is like that, which is totally fine.
Because of this, I've always been able to see myself in many strong characters, as well as in male, female, and non-binary characters alike. Some of the characters I relate/related to most were boys like Hiccup from how to train your dragon, Flynn/Eugene from Tangled, and Josuke from Jojos bizarre adventure, but I recognize not everyone is like that, and that's completely okay. That's why variety in characters of all genders is important.
I do understand how important it is for everyone to be able to see themselves in characters, so yes, a variety of all types of girls please.
One movie where I forgive and enjoy the makeover is the princess diaries, it's probably no different but I still love it
I honestly wish this video was 2hrs long, this was sooooo interesting and you put words on feelings that I've had for some time now about the messages directed to teenage girls in pop culture! So thank you for this 💕🤗
'Not like other girl' is simply the girl's mind in NPC mode.
Also the thing where the only girls who ended up with boyfriends usually made me uncomfortable because of how similar it was to people telling me I'd change my mind after i told them i was aromantic and asexual and didn't want to date.
oh mood. if they don't care about boys, why is the plot about them caring about boys? let the girl be ace!
Honestly the problem with the trope isn’t that “girls should hate femininity”, it’s that girls who can’t or won’t perform femininity tend to be bullied by those that do. That’s where a lot of this comes from. But people take it the wrong way and assuming it’s just a case of “femininity is bad” rather than “bullying and policing other people’s gender is bad”.
Honestly the whole not like other girls trope has had such a toxic effect on me and a lot of other people, a lot of self hate, anxiety, and insecurities stemmed from this trope that I'm honestly still trying to heal from because I AM like other girls and I love that. Being obsessed with anything pink, and thinking pop songs are good, loving makeup, being in love-it felt so amazing accepting that I'm a "vsco girl" or a "basic girl" because I'm happy like that.
Yeah, I was the same. It took me many years to stop shunning everything remotely feminine and to realize that everybody has their own shit going on and nobody is actually shallow like I assumed them to be. I recognized that I am not the type for feminine clothing or makeup but I can still like feminine things and there's nothing wrong with other people enjoying some of these things more than me. It made me hate the world a lot less and able to be much more relaxed about interacting with other people.
I'm currently reading A Curse so Dark and Lonely and it shows that the not like other girls trope is still going strong in more recent stories. I have made it my mission to tab all the not like other girls moments, which is kind of entertaining:
" For a different girl, the best part of this bedroom would be the closet", "Most of the girls won't touch a blade or a bridle and instead gravitate to the finery found withing the lushly outfitted wardrobes" to give a few examples
RANDOMNESS INCOMING:
I hope this is not too random, but can i real quick tell you about something thats just heavy on my mind?
You see, i have a Hobby (aside from more normal hobbys, duh). The Hobby of trying to make UA-cam healthier and safer by using the Report-Option that YT has.
It would be totally cool if you could help with that. It costs you nothing, but also generates you no money, so thats that. Its just to help yourself and the plattform, you know.
Just today, i got someone screaming 'Covid is a Lie! Take off your Masks! REBELLL' deleted, so I'm proud on that, but truth is, not enough people care. Especially after 2020/2021 got their spirits down, you know.
But we need to act, despite our spirit being low, i say.
If you could spare just a bit of time to flag Bullies and/or Racists and/or P0rn-Uploader and/or Spam-Bots and/or Scammers, it would be so great, honestly...
What do you say?
@@slevinchannel7589
We can try but best not spam it in irrelevant comments
I feel Katniss is saved by two factors at least a little. Her disinterest in boys felt very (I suspect accidentally...) demisexual: she only ever felt actual attraction to guys she was already very close to! She also did indeed love the beautiful outfits she was given. She does not DISCUSS fashion, but she does appreciate it.
What drove me up the walls about her was how she kept going on about how alone she is in her battles... while she was surrounded by a lot of people who supported her, and went out of her way to help others. I do understand how her worldview came about, but her obliviousness to all the patterns of people supporting and caring for each other all around her was possibly the saddest thing to see her experience,
just to point out that the image at the beginning was originally a fetish piece for "debimbofication".
I’ve been excited for this ever since I saw the intro teaser on insta 😍
Can we appreciate the editing in this video?! It's amazing 👏
There was this episode of Boy Meets World where Topanga (smart, hippie girl who's totally not like all the other girls) was all like "I don't care about beauty standards," cuts off half her hair, and instantly regrets it. She then gives herself a makeover (including a professional haircut) and becomes a mean girl. Later she acknowledges that she can still be herself while caring about her looks. It was the first time I've seen a smart girl that cared about how she looked.
I always liked Juliet from the Artemis Fowl books. 😄 She was "girly" and also a pro MMA fighter
Leonie this video is excellent, you should be proud! I would love to see more of these kinds of commentaries if you enjoy making them
who else jammed to Most Girls by Hailee Steinfeld after watching this beauty?
I love videos intellectually talking about the early 2010s because that was the time I started to really consume media but while I was too young to really question it on a bigger level.
Katniss saying she and Madge "aren't like other girls" is very obviously her own prejudice though. Later on she has to acknowledge (though she still hates) that the other people in her district have a lot in common with her + even that clothes can matter.
Also she's literally not like other girls in that as far as we're told none of the other girls have to go hunt to feed their families at that point.
But yeah, I'm sure her being slightly less feminine is internalised misogyny, and not her literally growing up in a horrible place and then being sent to die 30 times.
I’d definitely love more video essays from you!!
This feels weird to me because... maybe it is different for neurotypical people, but I'm neurodivergent (adhd and autism). I'm not "like other girls," and certainly wasn't growing up and as a teen before I started masking so heavily. Being a teen was really confusing and painful because I was kinda left behind. Where my childhood friends were becoming interested in meeting fashion and beauty standards and dating, I was still obsessed with frogs and dragons. I still often feel like an alien, especially when listening to popular music and TV, and when with a group of people I don't know well. I think and communicate very differently, the things that make me happy are different and my ways of expressing happiness and excitement are very different from everyone I know. It makes making friends and dating really challenging.
One of the reasons I love the Throne of Glass series. The main character is a strong beautiful intelligent girl who loves clothes and music and all of those things yet who is also a badass assassin and witty and yes emotionally unavailable but only because she was betrayed and her first love was killed. Her best friend is another beautiful girl who also fights for her people. She even says in the book that she hates girls that would turn against her own sex over a guy, or because they were more beautiful.
Same girl!!
on the expectations, i hated pink cause it was expected for me, i had to like it, it was forced; then i realised i was nb, and pink wasn't forced on me anymore and i started loving it so much
I felt like I was watching a university lecture in the best way :D
I think I have a really interesting feeling about this topic that I'd like to share!
Currently Im a transman in his early twenties. However growing up in high school I was "the popular girl" archetype you were describing. I had an hourglass figure, male attention, I liked bands, I wore makeup, and I even had hair dyed in strange and fun colours. But I wasn't popular at all and was still very isolated. Its weird because no one really wanted to be my friend but a lot of people knew about me. I would have complete strangers come up to me and ask me if I was dating someone just because they wanted to know. I got real life strangers shipping me and boys I had never spoken to wanting to have something sexual with me. It was exasperating and living in a southern state in America I was just keeping my trans identity a secret. I thought no one would date me if I gave up my identity as a pretty cis girl. I wore makeup to help me look like someone else to avoid episodes of dysphoria that had me going home in tears. All that to say I was isolated in a very strange way and I know I'm far from the only transman to experience this. But it was amazing how I could feel isolated by "other girls" and the "not like other girls". Looking to boys for company was an even worse decision because most of them were competing to date me. Even when I finally did come out towards the end of sophmore year the harassment did not end. It didn't even really change that much.
Idk I'm rambling now but I just was curious how many transmen or even cis women felt this experience of being the other girl?
See, there's so many different things in this argument too. You can't have a masculine woman without people saying, "She's 'not like other girls'" in a demeaning way, but you also can't have a feminine character without people saying, "She's not strong enough" (because yes, some people place strength with masculinity, which is a bit toxic, ugh) So what the hell kind of character are we supposed to make? I apologize if I'm not getting the point, but it feels like any female character these days is getting criticism from one way or the other, and nobody is happy with any of them.
Heyy... I really enjoyed this video, but I do have one point to criticise :
I very much dislike the fact that you put Katniss on the list of ‚not like other girls‘
:(
Yea, she‘s not feminine at all, and she does say that one quote you mentioned, but I think her lack of interest in boys and clothes is just a part of who she is and that the quote just explains her character a bit better and highlights the fact that she differs from other teenagers because she always had to fight for survival!!! We know that she‘s had a veryyy hard life and her personality (being practical, survival oriented and more masculine) is a result of that. As far as I know, she doesn’t put down other girls
Also, I‘ve noticed that people tend to demonize MASCULINE women nowadays when they criticise others for demonising feminine women. That’s very wrong, it think we should embrace women who present the way they want to, wether that be feminine or GNC
(This is coming from a girly girl hahah)
I agree, but I also think that Katniss actually isn't "not feminine at all". She has long hair. She loves flowers. She sings. She enjoys collecting herbs and berries. She is very maternal and family oriented. All of those are calm, traditionally feminine things. She appreciates the blue dress her mom gives her and laments that she left it in the train. In the end of the movies she is also shown in a dress, something that she can now wear as it is flowy and comfortable because she knows she won't have to run for her life out of the blue. She loves doing her hair as well, braiding it and appreciating it a lot when her mom braids her hair in a more complicated style and she's extremely glad that her prep team shows respect for her mom's work on her hair.
People in general seem to think that "girly and feminine" equals "makeup and perfection", but I disagree. Katniss is just as feminine as any other regular girl. She's a cottagecore queen.
yeah i feel like some parts of the vid (and criticism of this trope in general outside of this video) unintentionally came off as "if you're not traditionally feminine/don't like traditionally feminine things you're just jealous or trying to be different" and it's pretty irritating as someone who's just never really identified with that sort of stuff
Plus her comment about the "makeover scene" in the Hunger Games was pretty inaccurate. It's not really supposed to make the reader feel good, especially since Katniss was thinking about how the tributes from District 12 have been dressed up in the past. It clearly indicates how the people working for the Capitol usually dehumanise the tributes.
In general, I think she read the book with sexism in mind rather than class, and it distorted her understanding of it.