One of the best things my sister ever said was “ if jacob was obsessed with bella bc of her kid being his soulmate shouldn’t he also be obsessed with edward?”
Only for about… 2 months according to the average life span of a sperm. Way shorter if he was “relieving” himself regularly. Eggs all form prior to birth, sperm have a much much much shorter life cycle.
@@jacforswear18 Except, he's a vampire, so his sperm has basically been cryogenically frozen since he was turned until the act of physical intimacy essentially thawed him out. Also...given Edward's characterization as personally uninterested in anything to do with love or s*x before Bella suddenly changed that, I doubt he'd ever once "relieved" himself either.😅😅 🙃😶👀 😅 Loll It's fantasy fiction, it doesn't have to be realistic. 😂 (Also, every guy and gal is each born with a set number of germ cells that will eventually mature throughout their lifetime into either eggs or sperm, so the genetic bits of them that will eventually potentially contribute to baby making are there all along in every fertile human.)
I remember reading a tumblr post that said that love triangles are never actual triangles without gay characters, and that the majority of so called love triangles in fiction are actually love corners and usually the woman is backed into it. Lovely work as always Leoniee
@@nichoudha no, it's like- if you wanted to draw an actual triangle with the characters that like each other, it would just be a line between the girl and 1 guy, and a line between the girl and the other guy. The only way to complete the drawing of a triangle is to draw a line between the two guys.
Yeah, I've always felt the same, where is the third line of this triangle! I've gotten used to the term and know what is meant, but it's nice to see this called out
Except "Love triangle" as literally 3 characters in love is just taking the term literally when its a Relationship diagram that is 3 people instead of 4 or more. This is just tumblr ignoring where/why its called a love triangle when the relationship triangle was to explain How each character relates to one another not that the 3 are explicitly in love. Like the line between the two men is usually "Rival" which is boring, and really standard, so theoretically using the triangle model you were supposed to fill the last leg with something interesting so the Guys/Women(if this is 2 women and 1 man) have something Between them as well. And in the twilight case it was the inherent Tension between Vampire and Werewolf on top of them being romantic rivals for bella.
I feel like people don't know what a triangle looks like. To have a love triangle you need A in love with B, B in love with C and C in love with A. Perhaps everyone in love with each other. But if A is in love with B & C and B & C are in love with A then *that's not a love triangle*! That's a love corner!
Actually, I like the love triangle in The Hunger Games, because it makes sense. It's not just a girl hesitating between the bad boy and the sweet guy, it's Katniss hesitating between two ways of living her life. (and of course I'm talking about the moment she begins to have feelings for Peeta, because at the beginning of the story it's not a love triangle at all, it's just Katniss trying to survive) EDIT : I wrote this comment before getting to to the point in the video when you said basically the same thing ^^
I really like that since it takes place over years, it is really cemented because they both gave dating Mako a serious shot only to realize they just didn’t work as a couple
I loved the love triangle in Clockwork angel, because as you explained in the end, it was a real triangle, the boys being parabatai and their relationship predating Tessa, and all three loving each other, not more than any of the other ones ♥️ super recommend, my absolute favourite books of all time
If they had lived in modern times (and Jem hadn't become a Silent Brother and lived a normal Shadowhunter life instead), they would've ended up in a poly relationship for sure. They would've moved into the same place and raised kids together and they would've all been so happy with that set up! Even though Will and Jem were never romantic, it's clear that jealousy between them was only the case when it was clear only one of them could be with Tessa. But if there had been the possibility of them both being with her and her loving them equally, they would have been happy with that for sure.
Sense8 went past having implied tension between the two options in a love triangle and opted for making them a throuple, and I'll always love that show for it 😂
I love Sense8 with a burning passion and this is one of the many reasons. I also love how the Lito/Hernando/Daniela situation was resolved, I know she wasn't actually a romantic partner but she was still a part of "them" and I love that, I always had a thing for unconventional ships.
Also love how they slowly figured out what worked best for them and not being afraid to try things out. If you dare try something, you haven't lost, you've already won.
King Arthur has one of the biggest betrayal love triangles of any of them! Gwen, Lancelot, and Arthur have one of the most tortured love triangles. It's definitely the first thing I think of with a love Triangle.
I hate love triangles with a passion but maybe it‘s bc I can never only see it from the female lead‘s perspective but also from the male‘s, like how heartbreaking would it be to love a woman who can‘t decide on which guy to choose and is drawing the decision out for multiple books. I would always wonder if she truly loved me since she couldnt really decide. Also, I‘m a sucker for grand romances and how unromantic is it to imagine them telling their grandkids „well yes I really didnt know who to pick but luckily it turned out alright!“
when a love triangle is done well such that both of the love interest are on equal footing and neither is preferred by the author and given special preference (more sweet scenes with the lead)! I eat it up
I watched Past Lives (and adored it, can't wait to rewatch it already) and it's a great example of how the love triangle serves the narrative, as you assumed. The choice between Nora's childhood best friend from Korea (Hae Sung) and her husband in Canada (Arthur) represents her struggle with identity as a Korean immigrant. Although she is content with her life in Canada and is much more used to the Canadian culture than the Korean one, there is always this sense of "what if I had stayed" and longing to reconnect to her Korean identity. The movie explores these relationships so beautifully and with a lot of care, it's definitely worth watching!
And I see the story more about letting go. Because the choose was long made but it’s hard to let go of the what ifs and Hae Sung represents that to her.
Exactly this! As someone who has also felt stuck between two cultures before I found that movie so beautiful and heartbreaking because of how well it represented that the choice went far beyond being between two men.
Loved Past Lives too! Just for clarity, Nora’s family left Korea for Toronto, and then when she was pursuing her career as a writer, she went to school in New York. She wanted to stay and so Arthur kind of proposed to both keep her in the relationship because he loved her and simplify her citizenship process so she could stay in New York. This adds an extra element to the relationship dynamics, because there are moments when you feel both Arthur and Nora’s tension around the thought “Did we marry out of love or administrative necessity? Did we actually pick or settle for each other?” While Hae Sung and this alternate reality sort of loom over them.
@@acotog9319 yeah but you can read the infernal devices without reading mortal instruments, i havent read it either. THE INFERNAL DEVICES SLAYS THO YOU'RE MISSING OUTTTT
This was a great video, but I'm kinda baffled that 'the vampire diaries' universe was not mentioned ONCE. Like it's so popular and Elena Gilbert is a prime example of how when the main character isn't passive and finally makes a choice, she is villainized and despised by the audience. I'm not even a delena fan, but the way the fandom spent years critising Elena for not making a choice, and then immediately turning on her when she does was genuinely baffling😅❤
Idk if it’s cus I’m a late fan, but i think everyone hated her by the end bc she wasn’t a very good friend. She made everything abt herself and was just very annoying. Even as a Stephan lover, I didnt hate her bc she chose Damon, I just hated the way she’d whine all the time 💀 even tho I know she want through it in the show, by the end every single character had been traumatized so her problems didn’t seem novel anymore. I didn’t really like Damon tho so I did think she was kinda stupid for choosing him. But I know plenty of Damon lovers that also didn’t like her.
The fact that the story was just as much about the brothers' relationship with each other as it was about either of them with Elena also is one way that the love triangle can work as an actual triangle. TVD is far from perfect in execution, but I find that the storylines it goes for are generally very interesting.
Well, in BOOKS both Hunger games and Twilight series had everything explained about their love triangles, Bella was never back-and-forth, she always wanted to be with Edward, and in case with Katniss it wasn't even a love triangle really, Katniss never misled any of the boys, she never said YES to any of them in the first place (until the end of Mockingjay where she decided to be with Peetah) while figuring out what love even is during the first 2 books
THANK YOU! The entirety of the love triangle in twilight is Jacob just dismissing Bella’s own thoughts and opinions and gaslighting her into thinking she doesn’t know her own mind. Not because he’s bad, but because he’s a stupid 15 year old boy!!!
@@Rosegold1793Never read Twilight but this does make me question something; at what age does someone toxic behavior is no longer justified by their youth and theyre simply seem at as a toxic person? At some point, if you keep messing up you cant be said to be a stupid teen being a teen, cause youre no longer a teen, youre just stupid. And yeah, in this stories that sort of behavior always have some sort of justification, in Twilight both Edward and Jacob cant help their nature as a vampire and werewolf respectively and thats the reasoning behind all their questionable actions. But, just like you cant be a teen forever, you cant permanently hide behind a covenient excuse for your decisions, eventually you need to change or suffer the consequences. Or at least thats how it is in real life. And about Jacob never really having a chance with Bella, well, isnt that how most love triangles in teen romances go? Usually, the love interest that came first into the story its the endgame. The other party doesnt stand a chance from the moment they enter the narrative, theyre little more than a ever present third wheel. But the writer tries to trick the reader into thinking otherwise, for dramas sake. Though really, i think this only works because of what Leonie said, the component of inserting yourself in the protagonist rol makes you miss the obvious.
Didn't bella also showed that in the movies too? She only wanted Edward. Jacob kept pressuring and persuading her that 'You do like me, Bella. You just don't want to admit it, be with me. Edward is a monster, he's not alive.' etc etc. And another scene when Jacob said he would do suicide, (i forgot whatever the reason was) and Bella (having Jacob as her only close childhood friend) didn't want him to. Jacob said 'then kiss me' or smth like that. I've watched Twilight a long time ago 🤣 Tbh I don't ship Bella with anyone.
Thank you for mentioning George Sand! She is so influential and has many amazing books, but doesn’t get enough love! Her novel Mauprat actually inspired Wuthering Heights. Think Catherine and Heathcliff but healthier and they both learn and grow as a result of their relationship. There’s a love triangle in it too. Also, I think The Phantom of the Opera has one of the best love triangles of all time!
There is a spanish trilogy from 2005 called Memorias de Idhún with a love triangle that got resolved with the female main character ending in a relationship with both of the guys (under their knowledge). It permanently altered the brain chemistry of the teenagers who read it, we remember it fondly and it even got an animation adaptation of the first book 4 years ago
I like the idea of touching corners, but one of my favourite teenage love triangle was the one in the vampire diaries, where two love interests were brothers… but it does explore different aspects like brother rivalry and having to choose what’s more important - love or family. The same theme happens in the summer I turned pretty
I always thought of the love triangle of more of the main characters into turmoil with their own thoughts and feelings than about choosing between two partners. That is why it works in a young adult setting, as people are still trying to figure themselves out and dont know what they want.
I really, really recommend "past lives". The relationships were beautifully written and acted, but it was so much more then "who will she choose". It was about the life she wants, the person she herself needs to be. And the way the regisseur was able to capter that... it was melancholic, but oh so beautiful. I seldom have seen a movie that tell his story through silence that meaningfully. (And I really appreciated that we as the audience never disliked her husband. An other skript would made him into the bad or at least the boring one. But the characters just stayed true to themself.)
honestly, you sold me that jacob-edward montage. them getting together with bella would still be a better ending than jacob imprinting on a freakin baby.
My favourite love triangle, and the only one in which I ever loved all three pairs (as friends or lovers), is Cassandra Clare's The Infernal Devices. Will, Jem, and Tessa's love for each other was beautiful. The (platonic) love between Jem and William is so special, and how their story is woven together is truly a masterpiece. Clare's best work by far.
I loved Iron Widow!! The love triangle in that book becoming a true triangle was such a pleasant shock. I'm so excited to see where the second book goes, if it ever comes out.
I do kinda wish we saw more of how the guys developed feelings for each other though. When told through solely Zetian's POV, it felt pretty sudden, but that's the pitfall of first person limited, I guess. Hopefully they get more screentime together in the sequel.
I feel like there was a lot of this sentiment about female leads having to be flawless that you mention in discussions about The Hunger Games. I remember comments about how "Peeta deserved better" because Katniss dared to have doubts, care about her childhood friend and generally not be in the headspace to shower him with love. By the YA standards, she was "messy" because she wasn't just a passive observer of two boys fighting over her. I can't say I like love triangles per se, but it was well done in THG. P.S. also, you look so good in this color.
Yeah, I feel like female characters just can’t win. If she has any flaws at all, she’s mercilessly bashed for them, but if she is the flawless being she’s expected to be, she gets just as much hate, if not more. I do understand that it’s possible to overdo it on the flaws and accidentally make a character much less sympathetic than intended, and I understand that perfection is boring and it’s hard to care about a character who never gets to mess up, but most of the time, female characters are getting bashed for issues that absolutely no one would mind a male character having. “Ugh, she’s so perfect with her super spy skills and all the hot guys fawning over her-“ James Bond’s a handsome super spy with a new hot girlfriend every week, and no one complains about him being too perfect. “How dare she act so cold to her love interest at the beginning of the story-“ I guarantee half of the romance section of your local bookstore will feature male leads who start out just as cold if not colder to their love interests, and everyone swoons over them. A lot of fandoms have some serious internalized misogyny to address.
My favourite love triangle is "The infernal devices" - it was the most respectful and heart breaking YA love triangle I encountered! But it was the opposite of messy. But still, I can´t get over it, was crying through books 2 and 3. And later in other series Cassie Clare dives into polyamorous love triangles too
There was these fantasy trilogy very popular in Spain when I was in highschool with a love triangle that actually lead to an open relationship and at the time I was shocked that was even an option (she was supposed to choose!) but not I think back and I love that the author showed that other types of relationships are possible. If anyone is curious the books are called memorias de idhun and the author is Laura Gallego
it’s crazy you posted this when u did cause I just got to the part in Iron Widow where Zetian goes “a triangle is the strongest shape.” god bless Xiran Jay Zhao
This is so on topic for me. I'd been thinking this past week about how to write a love triangle, but when I was scrounging my brain for any story I could use as reference for what I want, I realized that I've never genuinely enjoyed a love triangle in any type of media before. I think it's that personally, even thinking about having to choose between two people makes me stressed as hell. I think I will just go the poly route lmao
The edward/jacob edit, tho.. 😂 but.. yep. It could have totally lead to.. something. I do love the analysis tho. And also, like you said, this can lead to an enemies to lovers kind of situation. The tension is so, so there. And love, love, love tension. 😊
Cassandra Clare's Dark Artificies' love triangle with Kristina-Mark-Kieran is my favourite (cause they are all in a relationship with each other by the end of the 3rd book)
@@as_strong_as_we_are_united well< at least Tessa has a life with both of them in a row (kinda) which almost never happens with love triangles, quite a unique case here)
I am so glad i watched this because it finally gave me the definitive answer for why i never saw Jacob as a serious option for Bella. Its 100% because he represented her staying human and it was made clear in every book that Bella wasn't meant to stay human. Conflict after conflict, the 3 hunters, Victoria's army, the f'ing Volturri, and her own thoughts on fitting in with others. Eveything pointed to her turning into a vampire, so everything pointed to Jacob not being a real contender. I always focused on how Jacob just got worse as a character after turning into a warewolf, but even ignoring that, i dont think I'd ever see her pick him when Edward&vampirism is an option.
Wuthering Heights is one of my favourite novels and hearing Bella Swan also loved it genuinely killed a part of my soul. The lengths I have gone to NOT to relate to her and now this??
If it helps, Bella makes it quite obvious that she doesn’t understand the actual point of the book, and honestly might not even have read the whole thing. She sees tortured, passionate love and swoons at how romantic it is, but she doesn’t seem to realize that it’s not being framed as a good thing, that these lovers, with all their dramatic passion, aren’t precious sweethearts who you want to see ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after together. They’re deeply flawed, toxic people, and they’re hurting each other and everyone around them. Bella doesn’t seem to get that just because the characters are in love doesn’t mean their romance is a good thing.
I don't consider people cheating on their partner as a love triangle, especially in classic litterature. I feel like quite often they are just not (or not any more) in love with the person they married (especially if the story takes place a long time ago and they were forced to marry, for social standing), and they fall in love with someone else. So it's not an hesitation between two people they love, it's an hesitation between fulfiling their obligation or listening to their heart.
@@curlyheadpigeon Well theres a i few i've read and a few i've not, so i'll make a list here, explaining about them. Twilight series, the classic love triangle, quite outdated though. the summer i turned pretty, a summer coming of age story, but very drama filled. shatter me, a slight love triangle, dystopian book. the hunger games, a classic dystopian. thats all i can think of at the moment, but all of these are young adult (13 - 18) age range, since i am in that age group. EDIT: also most of these are side plots, except twilight and the summer i turned pretty.
If you want an older ya fantasy rec with a good love triangle. I would recommend „Touched“ by Corrine Jackson. The love triangle is 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻 But check the TW or come back here, so that i can write you the CW because it actually has some darker themes (i dont think too dark to not be considered YA but they are def in there)
@@curlyheadpigeon Recently read Only A Monster by Vanessa Len and its sequel Never A Hero. The love triangle seemed a bit cliche at first but it was executed so beautifully in conjunction with the series' overall themes that I'm eager to see how the author finishes it in the finale! Bonus points for being an incredibly well-done enemies-to-lovers/lovers-to-enemies with both love interests for once, and plenty of angst!
i personally really like the love triangle(s) in the raven cycle! i think the tension and dynamics between the characters are all done really well, especially for ya fiction.
i really need a love triangle where the two male interests realize that the girl is just leading them on, and they’re like “fuck this, we’re dating each other instead”
this is great i just watched challengers and i'm obsessed. definitely think art and patrick were kind of in love as well. and really the ending is abt them realizing they need each other and "going back to the hotel" like the director said. i love this kind of triangle and you're right, it's insane that those rivalries don't turn romantic more often. i love when it's two girls going after the same guy and realize they like each other better ala Korrasami because it upends the trope of female rivalry. but my favorite is definitely the poly ending option and we just NEED more of this i hope it becomes the next popular trope. but idk if it will be bc that would need ppl to be at ease with a bit more ambiguity than they usually are. as a bisexual person and a fan of complicated messy - human - dynamics i live for this. also tashi is such a brilliant character, she's so unapologetic and compelling in her flaws - written with the kind of depth in her moral greyness that is usually only given to male characters. how disappointing (and predictable) that ppl want to villify/erase her
So happy to hear someone else having enjoyed Tashi as much as I did! Especially her dynamic with Art was so unique in the sense that we NEVER get to see that in modern (probably also non modern) cinema. She is totally the villain here but isn't that the point? Nothing about the movie would work if she were a sweet little submissive angel.
I really appreciate you pointing out that triangles are often symbolic representations of themes!😊 Some people really do be think so literally and non-literarily, sometimes.
One of my favorite love triangle would be in Keeper of the Lost Cities because it's not two guys viying for a girl's attention, it's what happens when two best friends happen to like the same person. In the early books of the series, Sophie(the main girl) has a huge crush on fitz and Keefe is just a friend who flirts with and teases her. There is some moments but it's mostly unrequited as Sophie is just freaking out about having a crush on Fitz who she thinks sees her as just a friend. Throughout the books sophie is oblivious to the guys who like her and its mostly other characters(read: Keefe and Ro) saying things. However she does eventually figure out that Fitz likes her and she starts to date him, but it doesn't work and she just gets closer to Keefe and eventually she and Keefe end up dating. The thing that I love about this is, although it's from sophie's perspective, every characters feelings get explored and its just an honest explanation of how confusing love or even just like can be when you're young and trying to figure it out along with everything else that's going on. Sorry for the rambling.
Great video! I always thought that many characters such as Raoul de Chagny, Ashley Wilkes and Edgar Linton were quite similar before I discovered that there is a trope called love triangle
I hated Wuthering Heights so much. I read it and everyone was gushing about how romantic it was and I just felt so concerned for those people. So gross.
this is such a random request, but seeing you talk about challengers really makes me want more movie recommendations from you!! I'm struggling lately to find good films that I enjoy! I loved this video, the Edward/Jacob edit was gold 👌
When the girl in the triangle is so indecisive and is playing two good men, I always wish the two men have a good talk, end up accepting that she is not worth the drama, ditch her and either become friends for life or lovers. Both great.
This is a so well constructed video, congrats, I loved it! I'm also a fan of loop and I'm so jealous that you have the switch, I've been eyeing that one so much. And lastly I just wanted to say that you look so beautiful in this video, you're always beautiful but aspecially now, luv ya❤
THANK YOU for making me watch Challengers wtf Didn't wanna watch it and didnt know about it's popularity but this is EXACTLY what I want out of a love triangle. Legit sat there with my mouth open at the end. Been working on a story that also involves a triangle where everyone's attracted to each other and damn, that movie did it so well!? The subtext!?? Leonie your video kinda changed the way I approach my own story anhd love triangles in the future. Amazing as always
I’m rewatching the walking dead to finally finish it and the “love triangle” between rick, lori and shane is soo wrenching but interesting! I feel simultaneously bad for the friendship between rick and shane and the marriage between rick and lori. And you also question whether their choices are understandable or justified and what would you do in that situation (would you forgive??) aaah also can the friendship be strong enough? I constantly wondered whether rick wasn’t more important to shane as they had been absolute best friends for so long, instead of lori who he had just had a few sexual encounters with?? and had never even liked in that way??
Aw, sweet, I was just thinking about your videos, so nice to see an update! Thank you for mentioning the potential for polyamory at the end! And the shout-out to Iron Widow! One of my top-5 favorite tropes in fanfiction growing up was definitely the "love triangle drama solved by picking the gay option" lol I was put off by the 'heteros having drama again' look of Challengers, so I'm actually MORE psyched about it after seeing your narration over those clips!
I just love your channel! The way you breakdown larger literary concepts and themes with some old history references and new perspectives on current media is TOO good!
I love this video. Also I think that love triangles only really love triangles when EVERYONE is attracted to each other. This happened in my friend group and it was so funny.
I haven't seen Challengers yet, but my favorite love triangle that ISN'T Iron Widow is the Daughter of the Moon Goddess duology! I wasn't on board at first, but the way things progressed in book 2 was really compelling and I was incredibly satisfied with the way it ended.
I was so excited to see Challengers content from you I wasn't even a LITTLE bit ready for you to discuss thoughts I've had for YEARS about the surprising potential / tension in Twilight
Amazing video as always, Leonie ❤️ Apart from the examples of books people already mentioned in the comments, I would add that Conversations with Friends Sally Rooney has an interesting love triagle plotline (although it's a bit of a square?). All of the characters do bad things (a bit like in Challengers) and it's very messy but also in a way I can understand (not excuse) their behaviour
idk if at this point you've already seen Past Lives but if not, please do! I was surprised at how I understood the ending. It was bittersweet but also I get why it had to be that way. It made me sympathize with both dudes and what's even better is they weren't mean to each other. The female lead also had her own agency which was amazing. Can't recommend it enough! Also, the director of Past Lives (Celine Song) is married to the writer of Challengers. Random trivia
i can't wait to watch this! i love your channel and your takes on everything. not to mention, your voice is so soothing, i could listen to you talk for hours :)
I think the funniest aspect of the Hunger Games triangle for me is that it's not really a triangle, Gale has a one-sided crush on Katniss who's just like "if I die he could take care of Prim like a big brother". In general the romance is so much NOT the focus of The Hunger Games that Katniss barely thinks about it herself. Aroace icon
You should totally read Strange Grace! It's my very favourite TRUE love triangle of all time, i read it for the first time last year and reread it just a couple months later cause I couldn't get it out of my head!!!!!
The best love triangles are actually not between two people but between two conflicting ideas symbolised in the form of a character. Love triangles get a bad rep because plotless romance stories try to incorporate them for excitement purposes in a manner such as “who do we like best girlies” . Shoutout to wuthering heights for doing it first and doing it better. Cathy is symbolising the ego, Edgar is the superego ( the character that the society forces on us in order to become acceptable) and Heathcliff is id (the force of nature that are humans stripped from society’s ideals). P.s. he didn’t kill Cathy’s dog, he killed Isabella’s dog. He wouldn’t dare do anything to hurt Cathy.
I love that you mentioned queerness because YES! It adds so much flavour to the dynamic. Another one that the queerness is very subtextual, but on the very least the two men have a very deep bond before the main girl shows up is the infernal devices, from the Shadowhunters chronicles.
about the rivaling for a girl's attention's potential for a gay love line...I litterally remember shipping Laia and Helene HARD in Ember in the ashes series (book 2 forwards) for the sole reason that the idea of these 2 love rivals with totally opposing political beliefs getting together was too damn hot and exciting 😭 like Helene was always very bisexual in my head when she got her pov (even despite being canonically straight) and I always thought there was potential for turning the tides and making her fall for Laia lmfao there was so muvh sexual tension in their interactions
past lives is so wonderful!!! i dont really think the anxiety of "who will she pick?" is very present in the narrative, but the love triangle acts as an autopsy of all the characters and thus in turn also of human nature. highly highly recommend, and i hope u talk about it in a video
I love every video you make, thank you so much making the world better. You are an inspiration and have helped me reach my goal of becoming an author. A friend who I am no longer friends with recommended your channel and I'm so glad I gave it a try!
One of the best things my sister ever said was “ if jacob was obsessed with bella bc of her kid being his soulmate shouldn’t he also be obsessed with edward?”
Sorry to tell you but that is wrong. Male sperms are not like female eggs which are from birth.
Only for about… 2 months according to the average life span of a sperm. Way shorter if he was “relieving” himself regularly. Eggs all form prior to birth, sperm have a much much much shorter life cycle.
I figured he was, but he confused the mad attraction for hatred because of internalized homophobia
@@jacforswear18 Except, he's a vampire, so his sperm has basically been cryogenically frozen since he was turned until the act of physical intimacy essentially thawed him out. Also...given Edward's characterization as personally uninterested in anything to do with love or s*x before Bella suddenly changed that, I doubt he'd ever once "relieved" himself either.😅😅 🙃😶👀 😅 Loll
It's fantasy fiction, it doesn't have to be realistic. 😂
(Also, every guy and gal is each born with a set number of germ cells that will eventually mature throughout their lifetime into either eggs or sperm, so the genetic bits of them that will eventually potentially contribute to baby making are there all along in every fertile human.)
@@elle8786 Same!
I remember reading a tumblr post that said that love triangles are never actual triangles without gay characters, and that the majority of so called love triangles in fiction are actually love corners and usually the woman is backed into it.
Lovely work as always Leoniee
Lol that's so true- That's why I was always confused by them, because there is a gap in the triangle lol
That's nonsense.
@@nichoudha no, it's like- if you wanted to draw an actual triangle with the characters that like each other, it would just be a line between the girl and 1 guy, and a line between the girl and the other guy. The only way to complete the drawing of a triangle is to draw a line between the two guys.
Yeah, I've always felt the same, where is the third line of this triangle! I've gotten used to the term and know what is meant, but it's nice to see this called out
Except "Love triangle" as literally 3 characters in love is just taking the term literally when its a Relationship diagram that is 3 people instead of 4 or more. This is just tumblr ignoring where/why its called a love triangle when the relationship triangle was to explain How each character relates to one another not that the 3 are explicitly in love. Like the line between the two men is usually "Rival" which is boring, and really standard, so theoretically using the triangle model you were supposed to fill the last leg with something interesting so the Guys/Women(if this is 2 women and 1 man) have something Between them as well. And in the twilight case it was the inherent Tension between Vampire and Werewolf on top of them being romantic rivals for bella.
love triangles are more interesting when EVERYONE is attracted to each other instead of 1 person interested in 2 ppl
right!! I want less love “triangles” and more love triangles with strong possibilities of becoming a throuple 😂
I guess thruples dont appeal much to me as a person so I tend to enjoy love triangles in their 'classic' form. But I can get why this is appealing
You should read A Chorus of Dragons by Jenn Lyons.
I feel like people don't know what a triangle looks like. To have a love triangle you need A in love with B, B in love with C and C in love with A. Perhaps everyone in love with each other. But if A is in love with B & C and B & C are in love with A then *that's not a love triangle*! That's a love corner!
Any recommendations?
Actually, I like the love triangle in The Hunger Games, because it makes sense. It's not just a girl hesitating between the bad boy and the sweet guy, it's Katniss hesitating between two ways of living her life. (and of course I'm talking about the moment she begins to have feelings for Peeta, because at the beginning of the story it's not a love triangle at all, it's just Katniss trying to survive)
EDIT : I wrote this comment before getting to to the point in the video when you said basically the same thing ^^
It’s an example of a love triangle done with a literary purpose. Those books are more than a lot of people give them credit for.
Seriously. Every time I hear someone say they're Team Gale, I'm like, ah, you mean you missed the point...?
mako/korra/asami are the blueprint of love triangles touching corners
yessss
Perfect example
I really like that since it takes place over years, it is really cemented because they both gave dating Mako a serious shot only to realize they just didn’t work as a couple
from what show/movie/book?
@@random-zz8ut it's from the Legend of Korra (the avatar universe)
I loved the love triangle in Clockwork angel, because as you explained in the end, it was a real triangle, the boys being parabatai and their relationship predating Tessa, and all three loving each other, not more than any of the other ones ♥️ super recommend, my absolute favourite books of all time
If they had lived in modern times (and Jem hadn't become a Silent Brother and lived a normal Shadowhunter life instead), they would've ended up in a poly relationship for sure. They would've moved into the same place and raised kids together and they would've all been so happy with that set up! Even though Will and Jem were never romantic, it's clear that jealousy between them was only the case when it was clear only one of them could be with Tessa. But if there had been the possibility of them both being with her and her loving them equally, they would have been happy with that for sure.
Yes!!! 🥺🩷
Yes!! I love all of them so much.
I was waiting for her to mention this! herongraystairs will always be my favourite love triangle of all time
Sense8 went past having implied tension between the two options in a love triangle and opted for making them a throuple, and I'll always love that show for it 😂
I love Sense8 with a burning passion and this is one of the many reasons. I also love how the Lito/Hernando/Daniela situation was resolved, I know she wasn't actually a romantic partner but she was still a part of "them" and I love that, I always had a thing for unconventional ships.
Also love how they slowly figured out what worked best for them and not being afraid to try things out. If you dare try something, you haven't lost, you've already won.
Omg Leonie the Jacob and Edward edit I’m cackling
She is, by the day, beginning to look more and more like a fantasy princess. Only me?
Its true! ❤❤❤
She's always been a princess
a 30 minute video essay by leonie on a friday evening? yes please
What a great start to the weekend!
King Arthur has one of the biggest betrayal love triangles of any of them! Gwen, Lancelot, and Arthur have one of the most tortured love triangles. It's definitely the first thing I think of with a love Triangle.
Not completely the same thing, but have you read legendborn!
Came looking for this comment! She said she was going to talk about love triangles from history, and this was the first one I thought of!
@@Peace65483that's automatically what I thought of lol.
@@christineranderson2892 From fantasy, I hope you mean. This is a literary fantasy trope. There's nothing historical about it.
I hate love triangles with a passion but maybe it‘s bc I can never only see it from the female lead‘s perspective but also from the male‘s, like how heartbreaking would it be to love a woman who can‘t decide on which guy to choose and is drawing the decision out for multiple books. I would always wonder if she truly loved me since she couldnt really decide. Also, I‘m a sucker for grand romances and how unromantic is it to imagine them telling their grandkids „well yes I really didnt know who to pick but luckily it turned out alright!“
when a love triangle is done well such that both of the love interest are on equal footing and neither is preferred by the author and given special preference (more sweet scenes with the lead)!
I eat it up
do you have any recommendations? 😤✨
I watched Past Lives (and adored it, can't wait to rewatch it already) and it's a great example of how the love triangle serves the narrative, as you assumed. The choice between Nora's childhood best friend from Korea (Hae Sung) and her husband in Canada (Arthur) represents her struggle with identity as a Korean immigrant. Although she is content with her life in Canada and is much more used to the Canadian culture than the Korean one, there is always this sense of "what if I had stayed" and longing to reconnect to her Korean identity. The movie explores these relationships so beautifully and with a lot of care, it's definitely worth watching!
And I see the story more about letting go. Because the choose was long made but it’s hard to let go of the what ifs and Hae Sung represents that to her.
Exactly this! As someone who has also felt stuck between two cultures before I found that movie so beautiful and heartbreaking because of how well it represented that the choice went far beyond being between two men.
Loved Past Lives too! Just for clarity, Nora’s family left Korea for Toronto, and then when she was pursuing her career as a writer, she went to school in New York. She wanted to stay and so Arthur kind of proposed to both keep her in the relationship because he loved her and simplify her citizenship process so she could stay in New York. This adds an extra element to the relationship dynamics, because there are moments when you feel both Arthur and Nora’s tension around the thought “Did we marry out of love or administrative necessity? Did we actually pick or settle for each other?” While Hae Sung and this alternate reality sort of loom over them.
the infernal devices has the best love triangle ever and the corners do touch so 🤷♀️ welcome back herongraystairs
yeeessss!
i couldn’t get over the pseudo incest plot line though
@@acotog9319 that was the mortal instruments
@@wardaibrar9715 yeah it’s a prequel, isn’t it? it gave me the ick, so i abandoned the series. and the writer.
@@acotog9319 yeah but you can read the infernal devices without reading mortal instruments, i havent read it either. THE INFERNAL DEVICES SLAYS THO YOU'RE MISSING OUTTTT
This was a great video, but I'm kinda baffled that 'the vampire diaries' universe was not mentioned ONCE. Like it's so popular and Elena Gilbert is a prime example of how when the main character isn't passive and finally makes a choice, she is villainized and despised by the audience. I'm not even a delena fan, but the way the fandom spent years critising Elena for not making a choice, and then immediately turning on her when she does was genuinely baffling😅❤
Right! I was waiting for her to talk about TVD. When I think about love triangles, this is the what immediately comes to mind!
Thought the same thing.
I love Elena forever🥰💞
Idk if it’s cus I’m a late fan, but i think everyone hated her by the end bc she wasn’t a very good friend. She made everything abt herself and was just very annoying. Even as a Stephan lover, I didnt hate her bc she chose Damon, I just hated the way she’d whine all the time 💀 even tho I know she want through it in the show, by the end every single character had been traumatized so her problems didn’t seem novel anymore. I didn’t really like Damon tho so I did think she was kinda stupid for choosing him. But I know plenty of Damon lovers that also didn’t like her.
My people!😁😁😂💖💖💖
The fact that the story was just as much about the brothers' relationship with each other as it was about either of them with Elena also is one way that the love triangle can work as an actual triangle.
TVD is far from perfect in execution, but I find that the storylines it goes for are generally very interesting.
Well, in BOOKS both Hunger games and Twilight series had everything explained about their love triangles, Bella was never back-and-forth, she always wanted to be with Edward, and in case with Katniss it wasn't even a love triangle really, Katniss never misled any of the boys, she never said YES to any of them in the first place (until the end of Mockingjay where she decided to be with Peetah) while figuring out what love even is during the first 2 books
THANK YOU! The entirety of the love triangle in twilight is Jacob just dismissing Bella’s own thoughts and opinions and gaslighting her into thinking she doesn’t know her own mind. Not because he’s bad, but because he’s a stupid 15 year old boy!!!
@@Rosegold1793Never read Twilight but this does make me question something; at what age does someone toxic behavior is no longer justified by their youth and theyre simply seem at as a toxic person? At some point, if you keep messing up you cant be said to be a stupid teen being a teen, cause youre no longer a teen, youre just stupid. And yeah, in this stories that sort of behavior always have some sort of justification, in Twilight both Edward and Jacob cant help their nature as a vampire and werewolf respectively and thats the reasoning behind all their questionable actions. But, just like you cant be a teen forever, you cant permanently hide behind a covenient excuse for your decisions, eventually you need to change or suffer the consequences. Or at least thats how it is in real life.
And about Jacob never really having a chance with Bella, well, isnt that how most love triangles in teen romances go? Usually, the love interest that came first into the story its the endgame. The other party doesnt stand a chance from the moment they enter the narrative, theyre little more than a ever present third wheel. But the writer tries to trick the reader into thinking otherwise, for dramas sake. Though really, i think this only works because of what Leonie said, the component of inserting yourself in the protagonist rol makes you miss the obvious.
Didn't bella also showed that in the movies too? She only wanted Edward. Jacob kept pressuring and persuading her that 'You do like me, Bella. You just don't want to admit it, be with me. Edward is a monster, he's not alive.' etc etc. And another scene when Jacob said he would do suicide, (i forgot whatever the reason was) and Bella (having Jacob as her only close childhood friend) didn't want him to. Jacob said 'then kiss me' or smth like that.
I've watched Twilight a long time ago 🤣
Tbh I don't ship Bella with anyone.
It bothers me when people blame Bella for kissing Jacob because, no, he basically told her he would kill himself if she didnt
This video made me realize how much I want to live in the Blue Twilight Filter
I don't comment on videos often, but that sponsor love-circle deserves its own highlight
Hell yeah
Thank you for mentioning George Sand! She is so influential and has many amazing books, but doesn’t get enough love! Her novel Mauprat actually inspired Wuthering Heights. Think Catherine and Heathcliff but healthier and they both learn and grow as a result of their relationship. There’s a love triangle in it too.
Also, I think The Phantom of the Opera has one of the best love triangles of all time!
There is a spanish trilogy from 2005 called Memorias de Idhún with a love triangle that got resolved with the female main character ending in a relationship with both of the guys (under their knowledge). It permanently altered the brain chemistry of the teenagers who read it, we remember it fondly and it even got an animation adaptation of the first book 4 years ago
That romantic montage of Jacob and Edward of them, I can't stop laughing. Know that I will be back for that part several times
I like the idea of touching corners, but one of my favourite teenage love triangle was the one in the vampire diaries, where two love interests were brothers… but it does explore different aspects like brother rivalry and having to choose what’s more important - love or family. The same theme happens in the summer I turned pretty
I think a love triangle that was PERFECT was the infernal devices trilogy one. Like it made the most sense and it was so heartbreaking but satisfying.
cabaret 1972 has such a good example of a love triangle. it basically just devolves into a messy terrible bisexual throuple and i love it for that
THAT EDWARD/JACOB MONTAGE I'M S C R E A M I N G
I always thought of the love triangle of more of the main characters into turmoil with their own thoughts and feelings than about choosing between two partners. That is why it works in a young adult setting, as people are still trying to figure themselves out and dont know what they want.
A video essay about a trope I absolutely loathe? Pass. A video essay about a trope I absolutely loathe by Leonie? YES PLEASE!
I really, really recommend "past lives". The relationships were beautifully written and acted, but it was so much more then "who will she choose". It was about the life she wants, the person she herself needs to be. And the way the regisseur was able to capter that... it was melancholic, but oh so beautiful. I seldom have seen a movie that tell his story through silence that meaningfully.
(And I really appreciated that we as the audience never disliked her husband. An other skript would made him into the bad or at least the boring one. But the characters just stayed true to themself.)
honestly, you sold me that jacob-edward montage. them getting together with bella would still be a better ending than jacob imprinting on a freakin baby.
15 years ago I asked myself: Who is it going to be?
These days its just: Why choose?😅 Catherine was right all along.
Girl I am so disgustingly obsessed with your hair! It’s so prettyyyy omfg!❤ And it perfectly suits your face shape
My favourite love triangle, and the only one in which I ever loved all three pairs (as friends or lovers), is Cassandra Clare's The Infernal Devices. Will, Jem, and Tessa's love for each other was beautiful. The (platonic) love between Jem and William is so special, and how their story is woven together is truly a masterpiece. Clare's best work by far.
Me too, I always also found it refreshing that Will and Jem both talked to eachother and were like 'I love her, but I'm fine with you being with her.'
I loved Iron Widow!! The love triangle in that book becoming a true triangle was such a pleasant shock. I'm so excited to see where the second book goes, if it ever comes out.
I do kinda wish we saw more of how the guys developed feelings for each other though. When told through solely Zetian's POV, it felt pretty sudden, but that's the pitfall of first person limited, I guess. Hopefully they get more screentime together in the sequel.
Sometimes I like love triangle when the one of them is not practically third wheeling
I feel like there was a lot of this sentiment about female leads having to be flawless that you mention in discussions about The Hunger Games. I remember comments about how "Peeta deserved better" because Katniss dared to have doubts, care about her childhood friend and generally not be in the headspace to shower him with love. By the YA standards, she was "messy" because she wasn't just a passive observer of two boys fighting over her. I can't say I like love triangles per se, but it was well done in THG.
P.S. also, you look so good in this color.
Yeah, I feel like female characters just can’t win. If she has any flaws at all, she’s mercilessly bashed for them, but if she is the flawless being she’s expected to be, she gets just as much hate, if not more. I do understand that it’s possible to overdo it on the flaws and accidentally make a character much less sympathetic than intended, and I understand that perfection is boring and it’s hard to care about a character who never gets to mess up, but most of the time, female characters are getting bashed for issues that absolutely no one would mind a male character having. “Ugh, she’s so perfect with her super spy skills and all the hot guys fawning over her-“ James Bond’s a handsome super spy with a new hot girlfriend every week, and no one complains about him being too perfect. “How dare she act so cold to her love interest at the beginning of the story-“ I guarantee half of the romance section of your local bookstore will feature male leads who start out just as cold if not colder to their love interests, and everyone swoons over them. A lot of fandoms have some serious internalized misogyny to address.
My favourite love triangle is "The infernal devices" - it was the most respectful and heart breaking YA love triangle I encountered! But it was the opposite of messy. But still, I can´t get over it, was crying through books 2 and 3. And later in other series Cassie Clare dives into polyamorous love triangles too
your videos feel like well written research papers and I cannot describe how much I love that
your hair is so gorgeous!!🤍🤍
There was these fantasy trilogy very popular in Spain when I was in highschool with a love triangle that actually lead to an open relationship and at the time I was shocked that was even an option (she was supposed to choose!) but not I think back and I love that the author showed that other types of relationships are possible.
If anyone is curious the books are called memorias de idhun and the author is Laura Gallego
it’s crazy you posted this when u did cause I just got to the part in Iron Widow where Zetian goes “a triangle is the strongest shape.” god bless Xiran Jay Zhao
The love triangle in Past Lives is done so well that you will be BAWLING
This is so on topic for me. I'd been thinking this past week about how to write a love triangle, but when I was scrounging my brain for any story I could use as reference for what I want, I realized that I've never genuinely enjoyed a love triangle in any type of media before. I think it's that personally, even thinking about having to choose between two people makes me stressed as hell. I think I will just go the poly route lmao
my fav review of challengers on letterboxd is where someone said it’s like the hunger games if gale and peeta wanted each other sometimes 😭😭 no notes
The edward/jacob edit, tho.. 😂 but.. yep. It could have totally lead to.. something.
I do love the analysis tho. And also, like you said, this can lead to an enemies to lovers kind of situation. The tension is so, so there. And love, love, love tension. 😊
Cassandra Clare's Dark Artificies' love triangle with Kristina-Mark-Kieran is my favourite (cause they are all in a relationship with each other by the end of the 3rd book)
it´s kind of hot, but mine favorite is still Will Tessa and Jem. I wish she did them having polyamorous relationship too
@@as_strong_as_we_are_united well< at least Tessa has a life with both of them in a row (kinda) which almost never happens with love triangles, quite a unique case here)
I am so glad i watched this because it finally gave me the definitive answer for why i never saw Jacob as a serious option for Bella. Its 100% because he represented her staying human and it was made clear in every book that Bella wasn't meant to stay human. Conflict after conflict, the 3 hunters, Victoria's army, the f'ing Volturri, and her own thoughts on fitting in with others. Eveything pointed to her turning into a vampire, so everything pointed to Jacob not being a real contender. I always focused on how Jacob just got worse as a character after turning into a warewolf, but even ignoring that, i dont think I'd ever see her pick him when Edward&vampirism is an option.
Wuthering Heights is one of my favourite novels and hearing Bella Swan also loved it genuinely killed a part of my soul. The lengths I have gone to NOT to relate to her and now this??
If it helps, Bella makes it quite obvious that she doesn’t understand the actual point of the book, and honestly might not even have read the whole thing. She sees tortured, passionate love and swoons at how romantic it is, but she doesn’t seem to realize that it’s not being framed as a good thing, that these lovers, with all their dramatic passion, aren’t precious sweethearts who you want to see ride off into the sunset and live happily ever after together. They’re deeply flawed, toxic people, and they’re hurting each other and everyone around them. Bella doesn’t seem to get that just because the characters are in love doesn’t mean their romance is a good thing.
I don't consider people cheating on their partner as a love triangle, especially in classic litterature. I feel like quite often they are just not (or not any more) in love with the person they married (especially if the story takes place a long time ago and they were forced to marry, for social standing), and they fall in love with someone else. So it's not an hesitation between two people they love, it's an hesitation between fulfiling their obligation or listening to their heart.
Love the haircut it looks fresh and clean
its not a true love trial until Jacob falls for Edward to add the final line
I have to admit something... love triangles are in my top 3 favorite tropes.
Can you recommend me some love triangle books? ☺️
@@curlyheadpigeon Well theres a i few i've read and a few i've not, so i'll make a list here, explaining about them.
Twilight series, the classic love triangle, quite outdated though.
the summer i turned pretty, a summer coming of age story, but very drama filled.
shatter me, a slight love triangle, dystopian book.
the hunger games, a classic dystopian.
thats all i can think of at the moment, but all of these are young adult (13 - 18) age range, since i am in that age group.
EDIT: also most of these are side plots, except twilight and the summer i turned pretty.
If you want an older ya fantasy rec with a good love triangle. I would recommend „Touched“ by Corrine Jackson.
The love triangle is 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻
But check the TW or come back here, so that i can write you the CW because it actually has some darker themes (i dont think too dark to not be considered YA but they are def in there)
@@curlyheadpigeon Recently read Only A Monster by Vanessa Len and its sequel Never A Hero. The love triangle seemed a bit cliche at first but it was executed so beautifully in conjunction with the series' overall themes that I'm eager to see how the author finishes it in the finale! Bonus points for being an incredibly well-done enemies-to-lovers/lovers-to-enemies with both love interests for once, and plenty of angst!
I LIVE for your deep dives/video essays!
omg the twilight edit in the end had me in tears...amazing
i personally really like the love triangle(s) in the raven cycle! i think the tension and dynamics between the characters are all done really well, especially for ya fiction.
i really need a love triangle where the two male interests realize that the girl is just leading them on, and they’re like “fuck this, we’re dating each other instead”
this is great i just watched challengers and i'm obsessed. definitely think art and patrick were kind of in love as well. and really the ending is abt them realizing they need each other and "going back to the hotel" like the director said. i love this kind of triangle and you're right, it's insane that those rivalries don't turn romantic more often. i love when it's two girls going after the same guy and realize they like each other better ala Korrasami because it upends the trope of female rivalry. but my favorite is definitely the poly ending option and we just NEED more of this i hope it becomes the next popular trope. but idk if it will be bc that would need ppl to be at ease with a bit more ambiguity than they usually are. as a bisexual person and a fan of complicated messy - human - dynamics i live for this. also tashi is such a brilliant character, she's so unapologetic and compelling in her flaws - written with the kind of depth in her moral greyness that is usually only given to male characters. how disappointing (and predictable) that ppl want to villify/erase her
So happy to hear someone else having enjoyed Tashi as much as I did! Especially her dynamic with Art was so unique in the sense that we NEVER get to see that in modern (probably also non modern) cinema. She is totally the villain here but isn't that the point? Nothing about the movie would work if she were a sweet little submissive angel.
yesss i was waiting for you to mention iron widow
I really appreciate you pointing out that triangles are often symbolic representations of themes!😊 Some people really do be think so literally and non-literarily, sometimes.
Omg, it was an unpredictable pleasure to see Loop as a sponsor of this video! 😍🔥
Challengers is really one of the best movies I have seen in a long time. Fully agree with you, it shows how to do it right.
Challengers is SO GOOD and what a good opportunity to the video, I love it.
I respect the transition to the ad👌😌
One of my favorite love triangle would be in Keeper of the Lost Cities because it's not two guys viying for a girl's attention, it's what happens when two best friends happen to like the same person. In the early books of the series, Sophie(the main girl) has a huge crush on fitz and Keefe is just a friend who flirts with and teases her. There is some moments but it's mostly unrequited as Sophie is just freaking out about having a crush on Fitz who she thinks sees her as just a friend. Throughout the books sophie is oblivious to the guys who like her and its mostly other characters(read: Keefe and Ro) saying things. However she does eventually figure out that Fitz likes her and she starts to date him, but it doesn't work and she just gets closer to Keefe and eventually she and Keefe end up dating. The thing that I love about this is, although it's from sophie's perspective, every characters feelings get explored and its just an honest explanation of how confusing love or even just like can be when you're young and trying to figure it out along with everything else that's going on. Sorry for the rambling.
Great video! I always thought that many characters such as Raoul de Chagny, Ashley Wilkes and Edgar Linton were quite similar before I discovered that there is a trope called love triangle
As a Serbian who loves your content I did not expect a shoutout today hahah
I hated Wuthering Heights so much. I read it and everyone was gushing about how romantic it was and I just felt so concerned for those people. So gross.
this is such a random request, but seeing you talk about challengers really makes me want more movie recommendations from you!! I'm struggling lately to find good films that I enjoy! I loved this video, the Edward/Jacob edit was gold 👌
When the girl in the triangle is so indecisive and is playing two good men, I always wish the two men have a good talk, end up accepting that she is not worth the drama, ditch her and either become friends for life or lovers. Both great.
I feel like you might be interested in The Love Interest by Cale Dietrich.
The hair!! Slay 🖤
YOUR HAIR LOOKS SO CUTEE
This was the smoothest advertisement I've ever seen
This is a so well constructed video, congrats, I loved it!
I'm also a fan of loop and I'm so jealous that you have the switch, I've been eyeing that one so much.
And lastly I just wanted to say that you look so beautiful in this video, you're always beautiful but aspecially now, luv ya❤
I read SO MUCH shoujo manga and the love triangles were what made me squeal. I think they are essential to the genre
THANK YOU for making me watch Challengers wtf
Didn't wanna watch it and didnt know about it's popularity but this is EXACTLY what I want out of a love triangle. Legit sat there with my mouth open at the end.
Been working on a story that also involves a triangle where everyone's attracted to each other and damn, that movie did it so well!? The subtext!??
Leonie your video kinda changed the way I approach my own story anhd love triangles in the future.
Amazing as always
I’m rewatching the walking dead to finally finish it and the “love triangle” between rick, lori and shane is soo wrenching but interesting! I feel simultaneously bad for the friendship between rick and shane and the marriage between rick and lori. And you also question whether their choices are understandable or justified and what would you do in that situation (would you forgive??) aaah also can the friendship be strong enough? I constantly wondered whether rick wasn’t more important to shane as they had been absolute best friends for so long, instead of lori who he had just had a few sexual encounters with?? and had never even liked in that way??
Aw, sweet, I was just thinking about your videos, so nice to see an update!
Thank you for mentioning the potential for polyamory at the end! And the shout-out to Iron Widow!
One of my top-5 favorite tropes in fanfiction growing up was definitely the "love triangle drama solved by picking the gay option" lol
I was put off by the 'heteros having drama again' look of Challengers, so I'm actually MORE psyched about it after seeing your narration over those clips!
I just love your channel! The way you breakdown larger literary concepts and themes with some old history references and new perspectives on current media is TOO good!
I love this video. Also I think that love triangles only really love triangles when EVERYONE is attracted to each other. This happened in my friend group and it was so funny.
I haven't seen Challengers yet, but my favorite love triangle that ISN'T Iron Widow is the Daughter of the Moon Goddess duology! I wasn't on board at first, but the way things progressed in book 2 was really compelling and I was incredibly satisfied with the way it ended.
this vid was literally so so good 🎉 like I’m obsessed
You're essay videos are always so well done, the work you put into them really shows
I was so excited to see Challengers content from you I wasn't even a LITTLE bit ready for you to discuss thoughts I've had for YEARS about the surprising potential / tension in Twilight
Amazing video as always, Leonie ❤️ Apart from the examples of books people already mentioned in the comments, I would add that Conversations with Friends Sally Rooney has an interesting love triagle plotline (although it's a bit of a square?). All of the characters do bad things (a bit like in Challengers) and it's very messy but also in a way I can understand (not excuse) their behaviour
Netflix series "Absolute Beginners" is the best representation of a love triangle. It's the realest coming of age story for me
idk if at this point you've already seen Past Lives but if not, please do! I was surprised at how I understood the ending. It was bittersweet but also I get why it had to be that way. It made me sympathize with both dudes and what's even better is they weren't mean to each other. The female lead also had her own agency which was amazing. Can't recommend it enough! Also, the director of Past Lives (Celine Song) is married to the writer of Challengers. Random trivia
This girl is very good at what she does. I have 0 interest in the kind of literature she covers and I love her essays.
Your hair is absolutely gorgeous:3
I’ve always loved love triangles then and now, I think I’ve always enjoyed picking a side and fight with people over it 😂
i can't wait to watch this! i love your channel and your takes on everything. not to mention, your voice is so soothing, i could listen to you talk for hours :)
I completely agree!!!!!
I think the funniest aspect of the Hunger Games triangle for me is that it's not really a triangle, Gale has a one-sided crush on Katniss who's just like "if I die he could take care of Prim like a big brother".
In general the romance is so much NOT the focus of The Hunger Games that Katniss barely thinks about it herself. Aroace icon
Went to see the challenger with my bestie, she didn’t vibe with it, but I loved the trippy journey 🥰 The shots during the last scenes 🥹
now i really want to read a love triangle novel where the two rivals come together at the end😭
You should totally read Strange Grace! It's my very favourite TRUE love triangle of all time, i read it for the first time last year and reread it just a couple months later cause I couldn't get it out of my head!!!!!
The best love triangles are actually not between two people but between two conflicting ideas symbolised in the form of a character. Love triangles get a bad rep because plotless romance stories try to incorporate them for excitement purposes in a manner such as “who do we like best girlies” . Shoutout to wuthering heights for doing it first and doing it better. Cathy is symbolising the ego, Edgar is the superego ( the character that the society forces on us in order to become acceptable) and Heathcliff is id (the force of nature that are humans stripped from society’s ideals).
P.s. he didn’t kill Cathy’s dog, he killed Isabella’s dog. He wouldn’t dare do anything to hurt Cathy.
I love that you mentioned queerness because YES! It adds so much flavour to the dynamic. Another one that the queerness is very subtextual, but on the very least the two men have a very deep bond before the main girl shows up is the infernal devices, from the Shadowhunters chronicles.
about the rivaling for a girl's attention's potential for a gay love line...I litterally remember shipping Laia and Helene HARD in Ember in the ashes series (book 2 forwards) for the sole reason that the idea of these 2 love rivals with totally opposing political beliefs getting together was too damn hot and exciting 😭 like Helene was always very bisexual in my head when she got her pov (even despite being canonically straight) and I always thought there was potential for turning the tides and making her fall for Laia lmfao there was so muvh sexual tension in their interactions
THANK YOU for outing Wuthering Heights and exposing it for what it is; or rather, what it is not: namely, a romance 😂
past lives is so wonderful!!! i dont really think the anxiety of "who will she pick?" is very present in the narrative, but the love triangle acts as an autopsy of all the characters and thus in turn also of human nature. highly highly recommend, and i hope u talk about it in a video
I love every video you make, thank you so much making the world better. You are an inspiration and have helped me reach my goal of becoming an author. A friend who I am no longer friends with recommended your channel and I'm so glad I gave it a try!