why are romance books 'cringe'?
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- Опубліковано 3 лют 2024
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today we are discussing the topic of romance books being considered 'cringe'. As someone who loves romance books, but also often criticises them, i thought it would be interesting to go over some common reasons why people dislike romance books, and discuss them! at the end i will recommend to you my favourite romance novels :)
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Hi! My name is Leonie and I am a 25 year old girl from the Netherlands who loves talking about books! From YA to non-fiction to classics, I read it all (although fantasy will always be my fave).
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You forgot by the stereotyps, that the man has a tragic backstory, which is why he only feels hate! 😌
Which I hate because this is always used as a justification for the male characters behavior. Meanwhile the female characters generally have to suck it up and be happy anyway, or else they’re “being a bitch”‼️The lines between our reality and fiction sometimes graze too thin haha
Here I am, making every character regardless of gender have a tragic backstory so they can be assholes to each other before rethinking life decisions and doing this weird ‘character development’ shit
@@cyralamen This is me, or I make them have tragic backstories that affect their outlook on romance and leave them with feelings of inadequacy (sometimes) because they don't think about themselves alone. They question themselves. I don't necessarily give them a tragic backstory to validate hate/toxic outlooks on love. Sometimes, their tragic backstory has nothing to do with romance (sometimes that is the case in romance stories) but I don't like to make them toxic assholes.
@@amyrajpat5696yesssss yes yes! All of them have trauma, and they’re just all like that
I can change him...
I read mostly romance books as a man but my wife hates them. I am the guy buying them all
love this!!
Love that for you 🩷💜
you are rare species
I have never heard of a guy reading romance. Sounds interesting lol
@@sketchingfutures1235 lots of us do
I personally enjoy romance more as a sub plot, as in, the characters are going through there storylines and fall in love along the way, rather then the entire book dedicated to their love story.
Although that doesn't mean I won't try to find a romance book that I truly enjoy :)
this!! I really enjoy it when Im reading a book of a different genre with a nice story and two characters that I really like together actually fall in love. That really hits different.
Omg same !! Then i keep skipping to the romance bits, So that's why i tried actual romance books but didn't enjoy it, the romance just wasn't as compelling for me.
You should 100% try pride and prejudice the romance isn't the main element I would say it has a lot of drama too
Ditto. It's always more enchanting if it seems more incidental, I don't know if it's because the reader doesn't go in with all the romance expectations (which tend to do the heavy lifting, if you think about it). I'm an SFF reader too, and unfortunately whenever I ask for a book with a decent romance in it that's not the focus, substandard romantasy is all I get.
Same. I don't like romance as main plot, but as sub plot
what’s astonishing is i’ve read fanfics that are so much better (in terms of plot, character depth, build up, chemistry, editing, making sure there’s still chemistry AFTER they get together, etc) than actual published books. the romance publishing industry feels like fast fashion: low quality, more money, etc
So true! Which makes me think that people being able to self publish anything is really important.
Absolutely!
and then there's the fanfics that got a fresh coat of paint then were published as books
literally! there are some truly talented writers on ao3 particularly. I remember I read this pic that was just beautiful, the prose was so eloquent and the characterisation was complex and full of depth. The chemistry between the two mcs was absolutely insane and I mean just this quote "in the wake of their impassioned reunion, they dim into shadows of their affection - hesitant and cautious, skirting the edges of each other like wounded beasts." Like that is SUCH a beautiful line. Published romance books however? tiktok popular ones? they barely hit the same. they often lack the depth, the complexity, even the beautiful prose. Most of them just feel like cash grabs that the author will capitalise on because they know TikTok will make their book popular. bonus points if the male love interest is dark haired, morally grey and has a tragic backstory.
@@Cherryfxmls I acknowledge that indie writers (for me, AO3, Royal Road, Wattpad and the like are indie platforms) can do better than traditionally published writers but I always treated indie literature as high-risk, high-reward...
That was quite the image: "Roll my eyes so far back into my head that I can see my own gag reflex." LOL. Nice job, Leonie!
😂 I laugh all of a sudden at that part my son stared at me in shock 😂
That was priceless! 😂 I love Leonie’s videos! She’s a jewel!
As a romance reader the cringest thing I find in romance is the dialogue during sex scenes or flirting scenes. 90% of the time I'm yelling....."no one talks like that" its so weird reading dialogue that if I had to listen to people say irl I'd roll my eyes that hard too.
this lol authors get TOO creative in the areas they dont need to. It can be funny, but (imo) that is pretty rare. Normally this is cringe and weird though
I read a book that had the hero declare "Copulation is imminent" in the middle of a spicy scene and now it lives rent-free in my head
Wait, people actually talk when they do that? Why? I'm too asexual to understand things like this.
@@redpanda6497 they talk, usually in short and punchy sentences, to "entice" each other even further, if you know what I mean
@@redpanda6497i mean, people talk during sex in real life too. Usually not full on sentences since they're too focused on the act but usually stuff to let each other know how they're doing. I usually do talk alot cuz my brain decides thats the best time to have a full on convo lmao. My boy finds it very annoying and a move killer sadly ✊️😔 rip, but its ok 💀🤣🤣
What annoys me about the tiny woman and the tall man combo is that the writers clearly don’t know what it actually feels like to be a tiny person next to a very tall one. I am 10 cm shorter than average height among women and 30 cm shorter than average height among men in my country. A tall man here is about 40 cm taller than me which is nearly a third of my height.
That is absolutely not a comfortable height difference. I need to take a step back if I want to comfortably look at their faces, rather than towering it feels like I’m standing too close to a wall at times. Like, would you stand 30 cm in front of a wall with your face?
I’m not saying it can’t work, I have tall friends, but it doesn’t feel as natural as it does with a person of more similar height. I found myself a boyfriend who is short himself and it is very very comfy like that.
I'm so sorry you have had to deal with that. I'm glad you were able to find a partner that is a comfortable height for you. All my love and support for you short cuties 💜🩷🫶
As another short person, YES! I agree.
Well, my grandmother was 162cm and grandfather 190cm and they made it work somehow. :) But yeah, I can’t really imagine that either (my grandfather died when my mom was a teen, so never met him).
Totally understand, I'm short and I had a tall boyfriend and things weren't that easy. In books she's short and she turns to her tall man and stares into his eyes and kisses him, whispers something into his ear!.... Not when he's a foot taller than you!
Same, I love it when people are around my height because it's so easy to look them in the eyes! You're literally closer to them.
I love how booktok inspires girls to read - power to them! But something that deeply bothers me is that the quality of romance novels we’re being presented today is atrocious. Romance can be good , but please, if you’re writing actual books don’t let tem be read as fanfics ripped off of AO3
You're being mean to AO3 there's some gems on there that would make Colleen Hoover weep with jealousy
@@AlbinoBlackHole Exactlyyy!!
@@AlbinoBlackHole I absolutely agree with you! What i mean by that is that, liking it or not, most works on AO3/ Wattpad/any other fanfiction website are amateur content. We should never pay for books that feel amateur- those are professional writers!
@@laisseneda5165 and alsoo another thing, they all and big group/team of editors, or people who help them to do a book. Fanfics writters don't have have any help and I found better stories on AO3 than some professional romance writters, it's soo sad 😭
Yeah AO3 snobbery is not the way, brilliant writing can be found anywhere as can terrible writing…
I hate 99% to absolutely LOVE the 1%
Gotta love to hate the 99% tho
Romance books can be amazing the problem is when more of the story is focused on the romance instead of the characters and how they relate to and interact with each other. So much romance is about the act of being in love and not enough about the uniqueness of the characters and how they love each other
I want to recommend Us by David Nicholls. One of my favorite books. Its literary fiction but all about a relationship and how people connect. It was a bit heavy though.
You nailed it. If the characters aren't interesting I won't find their love story interesting either.
Wouldn't that be the definition of the genre though, to focus on the romance? Not to say their aren't some amazing romances that do include some great character development, but I'd say you were better describing literary fiction with a romance subplot.
Exactly, for us to fall in love with a romance novel we need to know what the characters go through in their life, and then we understand each other better. Books now are more about the act of love.
THIS is why so many newer books are so subpar. Most of them are too focused on stuffing in as many tropes and booktok quote-worthy lines as possible. Its hard to truly feel engaged in the romance of two characters who you feel no connection to. Its also why so many people prefer romance as a subplot. The characters individual stories and personalities are explored in depth, makin the slow but eventual romance between them more tasteful.
I have 0 tolerance for toxic male love interests, and there are a lot of tropes I don't like either, so while I love romance in theory, in practice I hate the vast majority of it 😅
So do i
I'll never understand how is possible there's people who LIKE toxic relationships, like... everything alright there? 😭
Yes! But toxic females as well. Sometimes I wonder how I am supposed to empathize with the female lead. I often sympathize with the exceptionally patient male who keeps worshipping her no matter how she behaves and would almost like to yell at him: ruuuuuuuuuun! Also, a guy falling for a condescending 11-year-old stuck in the body of an adult super model… Not very credible as a story. And it makes women look bad. 🙂
@@daliblue_There's a difference between liking toxic relationships in a fantasy vs real life. For example, I often have fantasies of being a subservient wife to a sexy, controlling man but I absolutely seethe with rage when anyone in real life implies that women should be subservient to their husbands
@@AudioEpics what book had this premise of a story if you don't mind telling
At 7:21 when you said the most important trait of a male love interest I was immediately like “abusive?”
I said the same thing!
Also, anyone who cringes at romance should read Jane Austen- p&p is the original rivals to lovers & the characters are fleshed out & relatable
they were never rivals, get real..
Love jane austen
I love that book. The edwardian sass is amazing
@@Ottolineificationshe hated him and he was an ass. Did you read it?
@Ottolineification maybe not rivals in the common villian x hero sense but they definitely started out not liking each other and it took a lot for both fo them to break their past negative perceptions of each other. One was too prideful to admit they held feelings, and the other was too prejudiced to think they would ever like them back. It's at the very least, to my knowledge, the book that laid the foundation for enemies to lovers themed books.
When it comes to books being realistic I think fantasy and romance are very different. The story should feel realistic WITHIN that world, like yes I can suspend my disbelief and get into a magic world but I need it to all make sense together. Romance authors are claiming to portray our real world, however the things that happen often don't make sense within the limits of that and what we know and experience
Fantasy can be truthful without being realistic because it portrays characters and relationships in a way that feels real, whereas romance can be realistic without being truthful about people and how they relate.
Exactly! There is a difference between a story not being 'realistic' or not being 'credible'. A romance story, e.g., can lack credibility because no male lead in his right mind would fall for a pretentious, condescending and mentally abusive woman while having a normal, nice and good-looking friends, a social life, stable background and job. A fantasy story can lack credibility if, e.g., they regularly use gunpowder but keep using bows and arrows in battle without a good reason (like the enemy using magnetism to confiscate metal weapons).
yes verisimilitude is CRUCIAL for any work of fiction
@@AudioEpics This is such a useful distinction / wording. I've been thinking this forever, about all sorts of genres really. I think it's more of a problem for me when the story is trying to take itself seriously, and wants to be "in our world" with one change or something... I need to not just immediately think "That's just not how that works". The less something is trying to be "realistic", the easier it is for me to take it as "credible". This is much worse in Movies and TV for me than books however. I don't imagine action anywhere near as laughable as some movies / TV does now.
After reading the love hypothesis "smut" i stop liking smut. I cringedso much it makes me so uncomfortable that i couldnt read smut for a while
Same here hahahahahahaha
The whole book was absolute *cringe.!!😭😭
I know, right? Sometimes when people recommend Ali Hazelwood's books, I can't take them seriously. I read only two books written by her and it was enough 🤣
Her spreading sunscreen on him and sitting in his lap in front of the whole department were the LAST STRAW for me. Well before the cringy smut. Hated this book
@@emacs5261 THIS💀☝🏾 I couldn't take this scene seriously the book wasn't bad but it was just so cringy and I really didn't like Olive 😭
I honestly think that a lot of toxic romance readers/authors have kinks they haven't processed. There are tropes that are super obvious fetish fuel to me, but the readers may well in many cases like education or self-awareness about kinks.
Also, Colleen Hoover's popularity is I believe in large part due to being edgy in a way that Middle American conservative women find palatable.
This! I honestly want there to be a video essay on how certain romance tropes and kinks/sexual fantasies are interlinked, but there’s the whole demonetization thing at stake here.
Exactly, I’ve noticed that the romance I actually enjoy or tolerate are all by authors who understand the kinks/subjects they talk about and take the time to warn and explain them to the reader in a healthy way
@@darrowofyomama Do you have any recs?
Do you mind linking the data for the last claim you made? That Colleen Hoover's popularity is I believe in large part due to being edgy in a way that Middle American conservative women find palatable. A lot of females from teenagers to seniors are writing and relishing such books, especially young girls and women in their 20s and so, as per my observation from my time at writing websites. Where did you observe the claim you made? You people have to make everything political.
@@seventysix92 Wow. That's your retort? That's the best you could do?? Somebody asks you a question and your response is to put your foot in your mouth on the assumption that you won? I am neither a Hoover fan or American or middle-aged or conservative. But thanks for proving my point. You really are just a moron armed with freedom, internet and anonymity. Just don't be too sure about either of those things. : )
Unfortunately most romance books no matter the genre feel the same in plot. Strangers become lovers but there's always a tragic background, exaggerated drama and a lot intimate scenes like they try to channel 50 shades of grey.
Many follow what's popular on the market and don't try quality stories and instead recycle themes already existed in previous romances that make the book bland.
Enemies to lovers now feels overused and bland, the romance feels forced with little chemistry or many write about toxic relationships that shouldn't have been romanticised in the first place.
I am not referring to all romantic books but now it feels that the good ones need more digging to find them.
Sometimes when I read a romance book, I think "this is so bad, I've read fanfics that are better than this". And because of this video, I started wondering why is that. Like the internet is full on bad fanfics but also very good ones. But I think the main reason is about the characters. When you read a fanfic, you usually read and find the stories about characters you already ship. And if the fanfic is lacking the build up, the logic and/or the chemistry, you add them in your mind when you read the story. So maybe a bad story doesn't bother as much. But when it comes to actually published books where you don't know the characters, you need the build up, the logic, the realisticness and the chemisty to actually enjoy the book, the romance in it and the story not to feel cringe.
it’s also because of the person who is writing it. just because a writer becomes famous doesn’t mean they are geniuses at the art of writing. a lot of people who write fanfiction can showcase a better skill with language than these contemporary romance writers
Very true, or indeed reading a particular good fanfic details the characters and relationship in a way that carries over into a ship.
Self perpetuating features from one good fanfiction happens a lot.
The third act breakup can be so grating to me. It feels like most of the time if these people were really in love they wouldn't just fly off the handle and break up (and get back together equally fast).
Agreed!
Hey, I need help. I want to read a soft and cute love story without sad stuff (at least not so much). Im currently in difficult moments in my life and all I want is just a good book that would comfort me. Please, if anyone could recommend some stories I'd be very grateful ❤
Hearing her say that the overwhelming majority of her viewers were female made me feel suddenly very alone Lmao
we love that you're here with us :)
we welcome you into the fold
so happy to have you here!
Same I'm a guy who just loves her aesthetic and takes on books. All the male booktubers I've found only do self help or productivity focused content which kinda sucks.
@@Danny-po5vp Hello! I personally see a lot male booktubers focus on Fantasy or Sci-fi 🤔Daniel Greene is all fantasy and Library of a Viking and Bookpilled are into Sci-fi 🖖If I found someone else, I'll add it later Captured in Words, and Gavin Reads It All
(fantasy)
I don't know your native language, "Arcade's Books" is really funny if you know Spanish.
EDIT: LOL me and my one cell brain, I forget I was talking about male booktubers, Arcade is a girl, but I really like her chanel
Edit 2: Moon’s Rare Books, Tom Ayling => They show rare and vintage/old books
Romance books, while unrealistic, introduced me to ideas that were new to me. And consent is one of them (I’m slightly older and I come from a religious background). Nowadays a lot of romance books tackle serious themes and seeing women knowing what they want, finding confidence (yes in bed too) and love is pretty cool. (These things were taboo for a long time). You can also re-live certain emotions and experience new forms of loves through the lens of a character/ characters or are introduced to new ideas about love itself.
I wrote my thesis about the appeal of romance fiction, and this is one of the most important arguments in the genre! It is there to boost women's confidence while creating a safe space (fiction) to try out new things, whether that is highly erotic sex and pleasure (female-centric pleasure, which is still frowned upon by the general society) or just being someone so different to oneself (e.g., a mother turns into this boss-girl attitude woman who does not want kids at all). They don't need to be realistic because that is not the goal of the genre. 😊
Thank you for this comment. It helped me see things from a new perspective.
Love this! I totally agree. There is a lot of discourse in the writing community on how to write consent and keep it sexy. If you go back to the 90s, there is discourse and encouragement to find out how to write condom use into contemporary stories and keep them hot and not preachy while showing responsible sex. Contemporary romance authors often tackle a lot of heavy topics like boundaries, consent, healthy communication. Romance takes a lot of flack for being unrealistic and simple, but it's difficult to maintain the balance of covering relatable topics and also keeping it light and unrealistic enough that readers are still getting the escape they are seeking.
There is a romantic movie about a woman that knows what she wants like Rose in titanic
I like how you mentioned love theoratically because as someone who's not the biggest fan of contemporary romance i was so surprised by how much i enjoyed it, the main girl was weirdly relatable(even if i did cringe at some of her jokes) and it did help that i kept picturing the love interest as Nanami Kento, they had so much chemistry as well which just made it so much better
picturing him as nanami was the only thing that got me through 😭🤞
Which book?
@@QayeenatSohail love theoretically by Ali Hazelwood, she mentions it at the end of the video
I haven't read the book but picturing the male love interest as Nanami is hilarious to me! 😂 seems very fitting from Leo's description (also I love Nanami and will forever be heartbroken about him. You know what maybe I SHOULD read this book after what s2 did to me)
@msmorbid2903 yknow what, absolutely, he was my favorite character and picturing him in this ridiculous romance scenario really healed some of the wounds season 2 left so I'd absolutely recommend it for that specific reason
I adore romance books, but today's romance is killing me. Every new book is the same plot with tall rich man falling in love with random happy quirky girl for no reason. I need more depth into characters and story, some challenges, difficulties and problems they're trying to overcome, not the smut and all other spicy things that I can read in a lot of better fanfiction🤨
I still read Sophie Kinsella books because there is some character development in her books. The newer authors lean so heavily into tropes, the books might as well as be Harlequin books (nothing wrong with those books...but you would at least expect that they have a formula).
OHHHH MY GODDDD when you were about to introduce Jane Eyre I was thinking to myself "What if she just said Jane Eyre" because Jane Eyre is also like one of my top three novels of all time... THANK YOU!!! Charlotte Bronte was RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING. It's amazing how many tropes she subverted in that book, that so many modern authors still don't seem eager to flip, especially the part about both of them being canonically unattractive.
People are quick to shit on young women and the things they enjoy, but I feel like we over corrected.
Now pointing out that many trashy tictoc books are in fact trashy will get you called a misogynist.
To be fair, "trashy" can be viewed as a problematic term because it is not just an assessment of the book itself, but it can also be viewed as an assessment of the people who enjoy that book. The term "trashy" gets thrown around a lot to describe the dark romance subgenre or erotica, and, again, it comes off as knocking the-mostly-women who read those genres. But to your point, we all know it is hard to have a nuanced conversation on social media, sadly.
YES thank you. As a woman, I absolutely hate the victim mentality a lot of ladies have online.
@@nevskislake I guess “trashy” isn't exactly a diplomatic or nuanced term for media criticism, but it is how I genuinely feel about many of those books.
I think readers should have the resilience to endure other people criticizing the books they enjoy.
Even if the criticism is harsh, mean, or even unfair.
I feel like readers overidentify with the books they read. Scratch that, people overidentify with the media they consume, be it books, movies, or TV shows.
But you are not defined by the media you consume. It is not part of you, but I think people feel like it is.
Which is why it hurts and enrages them when someone trashes a piece of media they love.
@@nevskislake IMO, trashy is good word to descripe person who unironically gives 5 stars to some of these books tiktok hypes and even recommends them as great reads. There were the days us fanfiction readers were called weirdos and now I see actual published books with writing so bad they wouldn't survive on AO3. It's bizarre and I'm fully convinced people who enjoy that drivel are on the slow side.
@@m.jaakkola1707 - "on the slow side." So...ableism. You are trying to sound clever and superior, but you just said so many unfavorable things about yourself in one paragraph. When you look down on others, remember that you always say more about yourself than the people you are putting down. Grow up!
I don't like 1. Instalove. I want something more realistic or at least more of a connection between the characters before they bang and marry and pop out babies.
2. Toxic love. I watched it growing up firsthand, and growing up in a domestically abusive environment taught me that abusers don't deserve second chances with their victims and usually aren't sorry. Just sorry they suffered consequences.
3. Erotica. I want story. Give me a reason they're fucking like bunnies at the end or else I'm out.
4. If the characters are insufferable, etc, I'm not interested. If they cross a boundary I didn't know I had or one I was aware of, I don't care. They're not something or someone I'm rooting for. Romance is one genre where the characters need to be likeable.
My biggest turn-offs too. I'm having an especially rough time with the excess erotica without plot and the insufferable characters.
I remember trying to branch out to other genres and one of those genres was romance. I was never used to reading a book with just romance in it so when I did pick up three books that I got recommended by BookTok I literally went "Nope". I find that I do enjoy romance but it has to have a very specific setting and plot for me to like it. An example of this is when I read Half a Soul by Olivia Atwater which I enjoyed.
Half a Soul is sooo good, and I don’t normally read romance either!
It helps a lot when there are elements of other genres
The summary makes this book sound very interesting. Do you have any more recs?
@@oko7002 Other books I’ve read that have romance as a sub plot are Mexican Gothic by Silvia Moreno-Garcia, it’s mostly horror/fantasy/gothic but it does have romance. The Red Palace by June Hur is a murder mystery with some romance. And the last one I’d recommend is The Girl Who Fell Beneath The Sea by Axie Oh, it’s a mythical retelling.
@@ashl_ey I'll definitely check them out, thanks!
I love the unrealistic logic......I read alien and monster romances, unrealistic is what I'm there for 😅
SAME! more unrealistic logic = more entertainment
Ice Planet Barbarians am I right?? 🤣
@johnnyritenbaugh1214 that one didn't do it for me lol
Any recs?
I think it can work, as long as it's credible that A would fall in love with B, despite the difficulties.
Her recommendations: 25:30
The brown sister series- Talia Hibbert
Emily Henry books (book lovers, beach read, you and me on vacation
the very secret society or irregular witches- sangu mandanas
Love, theoretically- Ali Hazelwood
Jane Eyre- Charlotte Brontë
I ve read the last book of the brown sisters trilogy and found it cringe
@@detectivedaffodil437same also Book Lovers was so cringe and the plot was so poorly constructed, surprised she even recommended it
@@SO-vw8nx Yeah book lovers was a snooze fest.
Huh, I'm in a reading funk. Maybe I'll give Jane eyre a reread!
The very secret society of irregular witches is the only “romance book” in this entire video I read and I didn’t like it lol, the first half was so boring, it took me a while to want to continue then it got better but then it had to have that little and completely unnecessary smut and I was so put off by it, it felt like it was put in there because she had to comply with the readers that like that stuff when it was a cute book that didn’t have a need for that. I gave it a 3 and that was being generous.
Leones deep dives / analysis videos are MY FAVOURITE THINGS EVER
My problem with most romances is that the 'obstacles' between them are usually all in their heads. I prefer an old Victorian melodrama where the actual relationship is stable but there are EXTERNAL obstacles to them getting together, usually financial (which is actually pretty relevant to today). People claim 'internal conflict' is more compelling, and I cautiously agree, BUT ONLY WHEN IT IS DONE WELL! If I don't buy the MCs 'insecurities', I won't buy that they were a genuine obstacle to the romance I should applaud them for overcoming!
Also, I think there should be more romances that COMBINE external and internal conflict for more complex and realistic romantic obstacles. I talk WAY too much about The Cruel Prince, but it was really ideal for me - Jude and Cardan were not just horrible because they were horrible - they lived in a horrible world with horrible circumstances! So there were EXTERNAL obstacles to them being together that they both dealt with poorly, leading to INNER conflict that exacerbated the situation. It's a lot like Pride and Prejudice, actually. I just want a balance of internal and external conflict. All internal makes it seem like the characters should work on THEMSELVES before pursuing a relationship!
I realized I never read romances when I organized my shelf by genre and I didn’t even have a romance section 💀
Hello fellow aroace.
@@notationmusical fr😂
aroace canon event ;D
Same here 😂
Scowling, black suit wearing, super tall billionaire?
So most romance novel men are Batman?
The ships I love the most in all the books I've read are probably the couples in six of crows (not that it would be a romance book). They have so much chemistry and deep connection, especially Kaz and Inej. They don't even kiss each other but a single look at each other has more meaning than a lot of physical touch in other books. It's actually not important at all how Kaz and Inej look like (even though their style is pretty cool) because their connection isn't build on hotness or whatsoever. I love romance when the the characters fall in love because of personality and deep connection
Unpopular opinion I also don’t like when the female lead is overly blunt and rude under the guise of being a boss or being tough I think it just comes off of her being really mean and unlikable, and I also hate in books, when the man is some huge womanizer, but that one little teeny tiny woman, who’s quirky and sweet will change him. I hate that trope, and I will instantly stop reading.
Please read Emily Wilde's Encyclopaedia of Faeries! (The sequel is out, even better than the first one.) I would really like to hear your take on the romance in that series - it takes the whole "mortal female falls in love with powerful supernatural being" idea and does something original with it, it's the only book of that kind I've found where the power dynamic feels actually balanced and healthy :)
adding this to my list!
my biggest book disappointment in 2023 lol.
@stellatsilla wait, does she turn immortal too? i mean usually in stories like these, the mortal one somehow turns immortal or both of them turn mortal, in this story does the female lead become immortal like the male lead to lead a long life together eh?
@@wowzersfyi there will be a third book so there is no way of knowing yet how this will play out, but what I meant was that, despite the whole mortal vs (almost) immortal dynamic, the characters are build in such a way that their relationship feels healthy and on equal terms
for some reason watching videos discussing romance novels always makes me want to try writing one,, like i'm aroace but i could do it. i bet it would be fun :)
Oh, hey I'm aroace too!! A romance novel by aroace besides Oseman would be fun!
A bunch of romance webcomics I follow are made by aroace artists/writers :)
ayo same!!! I may try my hand at a short story, sounds fun
I want to write one too, but I’m afraid it would get ripped to shreds for views D:
@@Brittanysplittany do it anyway! follow your heart! if you write earnestly, i bet your work will find its right audience
also if people are mean to you, you can just ignore/block them c:
the turtle neck with the plaid is iconic! i always love these deep dives and discussion on genres, tropes, ect
I read 3 romance books this year so far and hands down my favourite was Pride and Prejudice. In fact it's now one of my all time favourites and I'm planning on reading all of Jane Austen's books. However this book isn't that much romance heavy because there is a lot more going on but when there is romance? *swoons* This is one of the most romantic and funny books I've read. After finishing it I immediately wanted to start all over again.
Also This is How You Lose the Time War!!! This one is inhumanely romantic (and I mean it literally). Amazing read and another of my all time faves. Highly recommend them both!
Also for me cringe in romance books (which actually isn't specific to just romance, it can be in probably any genre, but it's most prominent in romance because love is something very intimate) is that it sometimes lacks subtlety. I can see what the author is trying to do but they're trying too hard to make me feel what they want me to feel and it comes of as mushy or cliche.
@@nikolahetn944Completely agree.
Elizabeth Gaskell's North and South has my idea of a perfect romance - two people who don't understand each other at all grow themselves as they get t o know each other. Of course it may be my favorite book of all time, so I'm partial!
I love your deep dive/essay videos. Please keep them coming.
I am gay but i dont like gay romance much, id just want two sweet guys. Not smutt. But two guys who just love each other
I have noticed that fanfictions are so much ahead than your general romance book. They have an open and refreshing view on relationships, dynamics and chemistry between female and male characters and they have a solid plot at worst. The best thing is that there is lack of stereotipical male/female dynamics and relationships or stereotypical personalities and often than not when characters fall in love they don't discard their whole personality suddenly like some kind of star struck lovers one in a universe and the only thing they care about now is their crush
OMG FINALLY! i love romance novels, but i have to push through them. most of the time!
So basically romance novels are the female equivalent of video games.
If your a dude and someone asks ‘what’s your hobby?’, you guiltily say ‘gaming’. Despite romance and gaming being two of the largest industries in media, they’re still seen as a ‘niche interest’ of one specific gender.
Watevs tho. No shame in enjoying what we like.
I wouldn't class Jane Eyre as pure romance, though. It's more of a Bildingsroman abourt Jane's growth as an individual, and there's a lot of serious social reflection. Same goes for Pride and Prejudice and other classics - they were never JUST romances. I think the problems start when someone tries to make romance the whole plot like there is nothing else in life (and this happened in mainstream Victorian melodrama too, of which I have read far too much on Project Gutenberg, just with different tropes). There's a reason not many books are classics. And I think publishers need to STOP forcing authors to write in one definable 'genre', when the best books have ALWAYS been cross-genre, complex, REALISTIC works.
Agatha Christie isn't the third-best-seller in the world for writing pure crime. She included romance, social commentary and satire, and even a little bit of sci-fi here and there. THAT'S what elevates her beyond the rest. You want a good romance, it needs to have OTHER genres in it as well. Same with good sci-fi. Or historical fiction. Or political thriller. Or . . . you get my point.
Jane Eyre! Every time I read it I end up crying! It is so beautiful!
I love your essay videos Leonie! I feel like your content is always original while talking about trends and tropes etc that are currently in media discourse. I always learn new things when I watch your content :)
In almost every romance novel I have read(not many) there is an irritating break up at the end that lasts some pages and then they are together.
Yes. I hate that too. It's just such a cheap way to insert conflict.
It is.
I know two people in my life personally that have had an enemies to lovers romance. Great recommendations, Leonie; I see and respect you.
OK hilariously I had both a fake dating relationship in my life and an enemies to lovers one. 😂😂So when I met my ex-husband I had dated his best friend, and his best friend used me. My ex suggested we pretend to date to make him jealous and get back at him. The fake dating only lasted like a week before we confessed we weren't really dating, then confessed to each other that we did actually like each other and started dating for real. The enemies to "lovers" (because we never actually became lovers haha) was the high school jock who I couldn't stand because he walked around the school acting like he owned the joint and it bothered me so much. I dated his cousin and because of that we met and I realized he wasn't as bad as I thought. Eventually we both ended up single and dated for a couple months. One of our mutual friends called me and said my BF decided he just wanted to be friends. I was pissed that he broke up with me through a friend and couldn't even do it himself. Then that friend asked me out in the same call. 3 years later I ran into him and found out he never asked his friend to call and thought I just stopped talking to him and he never knew why.
Your love life is more interesting than some books out there 😃
@@guruomuraisu6048 😆😆 I've thought about writing a book about it. How it turned out was way wilder than I ever imagined
Leonie, you are such a good content creator. Your videos are beautiful, insightful, and so unique. Thanks for investigating the questions I want answered!
Being in the publishing industry I can concur, romance books are where the monies at. Despite how people make it seem like a lesser genre, it has such a good turnover profit-wise even if it isn't winning awards like literary fiction, fantasy or sci-fi because it is entertaining at the end of the day and reading is still fundamentally a leisure activity. And romance readers are always looking for new content. The romance genre being a huge money maker has always been a thing. Although it's more evident recently due to certain popular authors and tik tok, it's always been that way.
I had an acquaintance, who I haven't been in contact with for about ten years, but I remember she would order the Mills and Boon collection of romances every month. EVERY month. And we worked together for like five years. Mills and Boon's romances are fairly short. They publish a few books every month and they had (maybe they still have it going) a box set collection of their monthly releases and she would buy it, devour them every month and wait 'almost' patiently for the next set to be released the next month.
The genre elements might change to appeal to newer generations (aka be less cringe, maybe, maybe not) but it's going to keep being one of the top sellers in publishing.
My grandpa is backing the statistics 😂☝️ he loves romantic books while my grandma reads mostly thrillers 🙈 always cherished that fun fact
My husband loved Pride and Prejudice while I'd pick a good action movie instead. 🤪
Loved the video! Always happy to add more romance books to my TBR list! 'The charm offensive' is the romance book that made me fall in love with the genre. I can't recommend it enough! The chemistry between the characters is amazing!
Your analytical/deep dive/ retrospective videos are my favorites! Your thoughts are always articulate and thoughtfully organized. Plus as a fellow woman in a STEM field, I really appreciate the effort you put into your research (looking into origins of the studies, etc)!
Love your deep dive videos! Tbh I love romance cuz it just helps me relax and it's great for taking me out of this world when it gets too stressful... and whole 'happy ending' trope doesn't leave me feeling empty inside which is also a bonus 😂
I love happy endings! I don't care how unoriginal they might call it. For me, endings should at least be bitter-sweet, e.g. the main conflict is solved but they lost something or someone.
these kind of videos are my favourites of yours; i love the way you break down the topic at hand and provide the viewers with nuanced and interesting takeaways - and, as always, your visual aids are perfect and make the video even more engaging. i don't read much romance (i'm not normally drawn to it in fiction - or in real life either actually, i consider myself a romantic but one who is just not interested in pursuing romantic relationships lol) but this video makes me want to consciously explore the reasons for my reading choices and maybe find some romance books that fit my reading needs!
I know I don't watch every single book tuber out there but apart from a few guilty pleasure book channels. You and Read with Cindy are the only ones in my opinion worth the hype. I'm always learning from you guys and you guys always have something worth saying (Not to say all other booktubers don't) but you guys definitely have the best content.
I ca rewatch your deep dives all day.
I love gender roles but also it’s important to know that in real life, whether or not you fit the stereotype doesn’t make you any less of a man or woman 🩷
Loved your little doctors coat and the heart make up on the cheeks, set a nice tone 😂
I personally don't really like many romance books. I am very interested in The secret society. But I also found that aspect very important that you mentioned: The inner logic must be working in a good book, no matter if it's fantasy, romance etc. Doesn't matter if things are realistic, but they have to be made realistic in a good story. 😊
I am such a fan of all of your videos, so astethic and calming! Thank you for that beautiful content.
i think the Romance genre having its own conventions is absolutely understandable and morally neutral! i feel, however, like the word 'romance' covers so much more than is grouped into this genre, that I've been put-off because of my own expectations going into reading romances.
for example (i'm going to use movies/tv as my examples, but in a way where I want to read things with the same vibe as them), when I first read romances, i went in expecting a 'Titanic'-like love story, with the angst and pining and aching and thematic elements and realistic characters, ( *except* I do want more romances/love stories like it where there *can* be more happy endings-because the world itself feels soooo dark and hopeless like all of the time, i WANT to feel that hope can pay off....) but then when i read "Romances", they were more like unserious tween disney movies except that the characters were full grown adults just with the same amount of emotional depth as kids.
that isn't to say I wouldn't sometimes love something with tropes that's lighter and more rom-com fun like '10 Things I Hate About You', but it just needs to have the storytelling and characters I can see myself understanding like that movie to work.
i ALSO love love looove when you get a 'Good Omens/2' situation where there's a love story at the core, but still lots of other plot happening around it-plot not happening _because_ of the romance, but meaningful and often solvable through it-with the heaviness and chemistry of a Titanic love but that other, wider story happening.
like if i want Jack/Rose, I don't necessarily want it to be historical ALL the time NOR always tragic in ending. if I want silly romcom i still want the characters to react like real human beings. i want love stories with extremely interesting plots that still depend on the main relationship feeling real and not like a throw-in for the sake of fulfilling "everyone needs to end up in a couple by the end".
and I have *no idea whatsoever* on how I could find that simply by genre. that's my problem with 'Romance'-that the 'romance' i Want isn't usually what fits into the genre conventions of "romance"- because it seems like what they mean by the "romance genre" is just a small sliver of all actual romantic stories, and that they're the ones that are like "fluffy chick-flick" :////////
I agree. I only like romance when it's part of a bigger story.
I can't help it, but it always seems to creep into our stories too, no matter how dark and disturbing they are. There is always room for a good romance, even when it's between two minor characters.
Created a wish list on Amazon for Leonie book recs. Thank you, Leonie!
Hey Leoni. Just wanted to say that your channels are my favorite on UA-cam. They’re so authentic, interesting and unique and I love everything about them
OH MY GOD, THAT SEGUE TO THE SPONSORSHIP PORTION OF THE VIDEO WAS SOOOOOO GOOD!! I usually smell a segue from a mile away, but this one took me by surprise. I loved it, Leonie!!
The best romance I read last year was not a romance, that's say a lot 😅It was A Good Girl's Guide to Murder (thriller) and Akatsuki no Yona/Yona of the Dawn (fantasy) 😂
Ravi is just a dream boat😅
@@MinkingladySorry, I have no idea what that means. What is a dream boat? 🤔
@@examenesinternacionalesaf3576 a very attractive or desirable person haha, it’s my husbands name in my phone too so that’s why my brain went there
I think almost every romance reader knows they're reading unrealistic or embellished stories, but believing is different from knowing. And then there's hoping and acting accordingly as well. Obviously, all escapism kind of works like that and while a voracious fantasy reader isn't gonna wish for dragons, they might still be dissatisfied with a mundane life or disappointed that they'll never be special. Being a voracious reader myself, I wouldn't want to take the escapism that books can be from anyone. But I think we can still recognize all the functions books can have.
Amen! Escapism is the main reason I read and write!
I love the little drawings you did they’re so cute 😭
Loved the video, as always!
I just noticed the korok sound in the end, lovely touch 😍
That "I hate you" bit was top tier giggle material. ... "Do you? Or do you just want to kiss me...?" Perfect! 🤣
Fun Fact: in middle eastern countries the men usually who reads more or equally romance novels as women in general this type of genre is very popular in our region but to be fair enough the Arab, Turks and Iranian authors tend to write more realistic stories on comparison with Western ones in my opinion of course
Wait, as a woman I never expected to read that. Recommend some novels by both male and female writers ASAP
@@moonlightmikkyway Ahlam Mousteghanemi, Colette Khoury, Ghada Al Samman
@@fikratdouk6675 thanks
People call something a “guilty pleasure” & I think people shouldn’t feel guilty about the books, tv, movies music & UA-cam channels they love. Just enjoy what u love (as long as it’s legal & not hurting anyone).
Absolutely agree with you 👍
This crowd understanding free will? Wow, aren't you sensational.
Having a guilty pleasure is fine. The amount of teenage girls who idealized Twilight and then went on to engage in abusive relationships because "it's just like Edward and Bella" is NOT fine. It's only bad when you can't recognize that fine line.
@@HanhNguyen-uk8bc Having a pleasure is fine, Calling it a guilty pleasure implies guilt. They don’t need to feel guilt for enjoying movies.
Also, my comment says “as long as it’s legal & not hurting anyone” - something that leads people into toxic relationships IS CLEARLY HURTING SOMEONE.
Amen to that! I believe entertainment is valuable because it takes people’s minds away from their boring daily lives or distract them from pain. In my experience, the more creators try to put messages and meaning in their content, the further away their creation gets from a good story.
The quality is insane, great to see your videos improving and getting new viewers slowly!
i think for me, the reason i steer clear from (mostly popular) romances isn’t because i want to steer clear of love stories, it’s more like the extremely cishet centered romances are the ones that always get “popular”……… and also the entire plot besides the romance suffers, the characters are super one-dimensional, and it’s too focused on a “man” and a “woman” and how they’re so differenttt and they don’t understand each otherrrr. see this is not all romances, definitely not, like i’ve read some romances that i genuinely love but yeah it’s those ones that the ppl that only/mostly read romance read that are just not good to me??
The intro was practically "before yall come for me I'd like to clarify" XD love your videos
I lost count how many times I have said ‘exactly’ watching this video… great overview. Thanks!
Great video! I enjoyed your thoughts about how people cringe about feel-good books about love. It's wild that people often point out happy endings as unrealistic because at least in my circles (mid-40s) most people are married or coupled. Wanting to find love / a life partner is an experience across languages, cultures, and eras. Most of our stories aren't as dramatic in books, but a lot of contemporary romance at least isn't actually that wildly dramatic. Talia Hibbert and Emily Henry, for example, mostly write about regular people with regular jobs finding love. Yet people look down on romance for being unrealistic and stuff like Jack Reacher is fine because we accept that men can differentiate fiction from real life in their fictional escapes.
I HAD THE ONLY ONE BED EXPERIENCE IN REAL LIFE. Like I need to shout this from the rooftops because nobody ever believes its real. Storytime:
I was in the Peace Corps in Madagascar for a while. I occasionally had to travel with my entire cohort of like 40ish people to trainings in the capital. The hotel situation there is confusing, there was a massive language gap we struggled with early on, and some areas of the country are socially conservative and some are DEEPLY NOT conservative. There also wasnt any option to just "go to another hotel" at night because hotel options were limited and we were flat out banned from our organization from doing things after dark in most cities so if you rolled up at 7:30 you were pretty much stuck.
This all combined to MULTIPLE TIMES we get to the hotel that was booked out ahead of time, and they have randomly paired everyone because the hotel didn't have enough rooms set aside due to whatever mismanagment situation and the rooms never had 2 beds either!!!! Like literally day 1 in the country, im a new peace corps volunteer just arrived know 2 words of the local language, they did this at the hotel everyone was at on our way to the training center. I shared a bed with a man i have never met LOL. We did not bang it was like 10% awkward but it felt like whatever since we were in such a wild context anyway. but i know for a FACT that other people in my cohort did fuck whoever they were paired with that night. IT REALLY HAPPENED.
Again this happened multiple times going forward with hotels even when I was traveling with only 1 or 2 people where we had to triple share a queen bed or something, though we werent "strangers" after that point, and it became "gotta share a bed with my buddy who has already seen my hairy legs and watched me puke up giardia" and it was never a big deal again.
SO BASICALLY--- its real yall, iv lived it, my friends banged bcus of it, all the romance novels are right there is a weird tension esp when you are in a situation like "i just moved to another country for 3 years fuck it"
Hahaha yes! As a returned PCV I can absolutely understand how your experience went down!
I consume romance genre like air back in my teens all the way in my twenties, I like anything romance 😂, but after 25 I become more picky and paid more attention to plot and characters attitude...
As someone who petite (I'm 4'11) I often want to scrub myself due to how tiny the women are compared to guys. I don't feel represented at all 😂
Okay so I'll try Love, Theoretically. It's been recommended to me a lot ❤
I loved this video, really well done. I feel like it's the same issue with thriller genre as well, people see it as a lesser genre.
thanks for the video leonie! 💖💖 so much effort is always put into your content and we appreciate it so much :)
I've been in a reading slump for years now and really struggled to finish a book. but after watching loads and loads of booktube videos, I somehow decided to read Emily Henry's Book Lovers frankly just because I thought it will be light and easy to read, and it happens to be the one available in my library. I didn't expect to read it nonstop until the dawn, it made me laugh, made me cry, sometimes kicking my blanket and squeaking like a little girl. romance can be a hit & miss (and most of the times, most likely to be a miss), but when it hit, gosh it's so good! kinda like love itself, maybe you've met a lot of cringy people throughout the years, but when you finally meet the one... they might be perfect.
I found it so cringe 😅 no build up between the love interests, I don’t get how the main character said she “hated” the love interest, it was so far-fetched, so it doesn’t fit the enemies to lovers category ppl put it in imo. I found it hard to finish, I can see it’s appeal though
Romance books are great when it's focused not only in the romance itself but on the personal growth of the characters. Reading Jane Austen for example is one the best experiences you'll ever have because she understood what romance is supposed to be and to me she was one of the few who did.
THANK YOU for helping me find a way to validate my newfound enjoyment of contemporary romance books. Jane Eyre is my favorite book of all time, also!
At this point I have to say, your channel is really nice! Your such an entertaining person and I know of no other channel with content like yours! Greetings from Germany 🫶
Clearly your romance genre PHD can be attributed to you having many Personal Hours Devoured by the genre.
Also, your video essays are epic! I use them as examples for my high school English students. Thanks again!
😄
I actually have a funny story I thought I would like to share in the topic to these. As the title brought me memories haha.
I’m 24 now. Going to be 25 this year. But throughout my entire early-mid teen years, I remember that was when 50 Shades of Grey was all the rage. Because I was at a private school, I would hear all the girls gossip about how scandalous the book was. And of course all of us being hormonal teenagers, there was no denying that we were not a stranger to the different concepts of romance.
Me however. Personally by how I was raised. I never picked up the book, or even watched the movie. Simply because I was a ‘Good girl’. I’m not even trying to brag either. I was told by friends and family that I was a bit more innocent for my age. And that was probably why I was a bit behind in getting used to the same things that normal teenage girls go through.
But, I was an active reader in fanfictions in those years. And to this day, there are few which I still hold dear to my heart, because the writing still holds up. And because of this high quality fanfictions, I even pursued a little hobby of writing them myself.
But anyways. Cut to me turning 18. I was still, for better words, a naive girl. But I was excited that I can finally be legally considered as an adult. So I decided to celebrate by buying my first ‘romance’ book. Like a normal person would, haha. The franchise that I bought the book from had other romance books that were divided into categories. Of course, I HAD to choose the one in the ‘Sexy’ category!
It was…mediocre. And for a long time before that, I was no stranger to spicy content. So I must have had high expectations. So I managed to finish the book halfway, until I decided that I couldn’t finish it anymore. And to this day, 6 years later. It still sits on my shelf gathering dust. I should give it away soon 😂
Lesson learned!
I love romance books, and I appreciate you giving such a nuanced, respectful, and supportive critique of the genre! Your content is amazing. Keep up the great work! ❤
this is the first time i willingly watch a sponsorship, bc the skillshare thing i think it will be useful for me. so thank u! 😌
My husband has gotten really into romance books ( bonus points for him if it's a regency period romance)
i personally love LOOVE romance in fanfictions. i can walk into it knowing i’ll love the characters and probably even expect some of the things i might find in it and most importantly i’ll always choose queer. there’s safety net in fanfics in the way that even if i don’t end up liking it, it’s not a big deal bc i still enjoyed the characters and i walked into it without any big expectations. with books however, not only i don’t like trope-y books; bc u need more than tropes to bring original characters alive, i also haven’t found many good queer romances, even when i do i don’t usually like them all that much. i have more expectations with books than i do with fanfics bc they got published so i expect more polished works and yet i still find myself feeling let down most of the time. there’s also the issue with smut. i like smut when it’s done right. hell i’d even read straight up erotica. but again, in fanfics u usually can gauge whether it’ll be romance driven story or erotica but with published books lately, they’d slap romance genre in what is essentially erotica and i don’t appreciate that. when i read romance, i want the yearning, the growing characters, the exploration of their dynamics, but lately it’s just sex with tropes. which, cool, just call it erotica then yknow? i do respect some romance authors like ali hazelwood who just unapologetically embraces the cringe and cheese tho, i am obsessed with that attitude
Till this moment I thought Coleen Hoover wrote thrillers with dark love subplots 😂
Love this video! And although I am more of an emotional romance reader, I do like when authors try new things outside of the typical romance books stereotypes you mentioned. Mimi Matthew’s new series Belles of London is a good example of that. I recently read Emily Wilde’s Encyclopedia of Faeries and I was very impressed with the author and her clear intentions to do something different with those typical romance couples stereotypes. You may like Sophie Irwin, she is fun too! You inspired me to try Emily Henry! Thank you! 🩵🌻
11:36 YES!! Thank you!! Oh Miss Leo I feel so seen, as an aroace reader I can still enjoy a good romance but only if the characters have some things to talk about with each other, other than "damn Kevin-John you are so hot / Waouh Kimberleigh-Jess you're drop dead gorgeous let's bangity-bang-bang". Otherwise it's just lust, which is perfectly valid, just... don't present it as romance???
Like, sure, you find your LI attractive, that's cool. But do you both have hobbies? What does the other think about it? Do you have a favorite type of food/cuisine? What are your dreams? Your fears? How do they affect the perception of your LI as a person? Can you two sit down and talk about any subject without being bored? Or on the contrary enjoy the silence together? No, you can just make out and think "my partner is so hot"? Ok, the book is not for me then, enjoy your day I'm sadly not the public lol.
I don't like romance as main plot, but as sub plot.
I'm a veteran of old romance soap drama since I was child, the image of "romance" in my has tarnished. The only thing that revive the image for me was a good interactive novel where you can choose your plot.
It also added since I don't like story not revolving in magic system, but just a mundane thing. Like, slice of life, drama, and even romance genre are "mundane" at least to me.
So, If I want to enjoy those above, it need to be along with fantasy as its sub-genre or I'm out.
I loved the video! I I absolutely agree with everything you said! And as a Brazilian, I must say that your English is wonderful and that I managed to understand everything very wel😅 I recently discovered your channel and I'm loving it!❤
There's a large print romance section at my library. Let's just say, the stuff you read in there isn't what you want people noticing in size 18 font as they walk past 😂
I enjoyed North and South by Elizabeth Gaskell! Jane Eyre also belongs to my favorite romance!
I just loved Eight Perfect Hours and The FlatShare.
Hope your next book is great!
This was a fun video!❤
I have read at least 1 of each romance author’s books you listed & I concur…well done on the explanations of why you like them. Me too!!
i always try to stay away from booktok romance rec cuz sometimes it’s concerning the things that are written off as “romance” in these books 😭
It’s always a dark romance or just badly written smut w/ no plot