One thing of note i think needs to be talked about more is how this is the strangest level to introduce the Frost Wyrm in, you start out in a Lvl 1 base and right at the beginning the game gives you a free Frost Wyrm and gives a speal about how it's the favored pet of the Lich king, so you give it a click and see how good it's stats are, you send it out to attack one of the bases and it immediately gets caught by a Raider with a net and beaten to death by the Orcs before you get a chance to use it, as a kid it confused the hell out of me the Frost Wrym in all reality is a "win more or lose sore" unit, unlike the Red Dragons in WC2 it's not a heavy anti unit, it's more a Base staller and clean up unit for the late game, normally you would send them in to stall a Hero alter or put pressure on a expansion in reality the Frost Wrym is a siege tool more then it is a boss monster for the Scourge. A good comparison is the Hero this mission gives you, the Lich which i would argue is my least favourite caster is most effective for the cost then the equivalent supply and resources needed to train up the equal number of Frost Wryms. Fun reforged facts though, the Headhunters are changed out for Axe throwers in this mission to bring it more inline with the Warcraft 2 Horde, also the Warlock models where update to be more inline with the stormreavers. Fun personal fact, Jubei'Thos is the server most of my WoW characters are on
I don't think I had ever used Frost Wyrms properly prior to my playthrough of this mission. They are most effective when spread out, disabling as many buildings as possible. Now, in the next mission, I give them a much more aggressive role... I really like frost nova but I need to figure out the best way to utilize the Lich's other abilities. It's smart that they updated the Horde units in Reforged. If I remember correctly, the earliest Warcraft 3 alpha screenshots had the headhunter as a forest troll, so they may have been changed to Jungle after these maps were already created. Oh wow, it's interesting that a one off Warcraft 3 Orc has his own server! I may have to join you there one of these days. I've been meaning to hop back on WoW.
One last thing, the base that sends waves with Sappers are gonna be very deadly, prioritize the Sappers 1st or you risk losing your towers to their Kaboom
Honestly, despite playing plenty of Warcraft 2, I somehow never picked up on the fact that, yeah, they most definitely recreated the makeup of the WC2 Horde with this Blackrock clan grouping (though, really, it feels more like a bunch of still-demon-worshipping remnants of other clans alongside Blackrock, like Dragonmaw or Warsong). I always did feel something was "abnormal" to this mission's enemy orcs, but it took a side-by-side comparison to remind me. Also serves as a great way to underline the difference between Thrall's Horde and WC2 Horde, how they changed and evolved, in terms of what units they use and do not use - ditching the demonic ones and picking up the more nature-based and shamanistic ones, and gaining different allies like tauren. It was amusing to not just watch but HEAR this mission playthrough, because that's exactly how it always sounded for me too - I, too, never could resist the pull of just building a doomstack of Frostwyrms and plowing through the orc clans with them, it felt exactly the same way as how I tend to play it. Ner'zhul was smart in sending them against his former kin - certainly much more effective than abominations could've been. As a side note, I also never really picked up too strongly on it before, but listening to the cutscene dialogues of Arthas and Kel'thuzad now, it's remarkable how it feels like I can pick up on Kel'thuzad simultaneously being compelled by the will of the Legion - binding him as if he were a robot to perform a specific course of actions - and slipping in some of the Lich King's and his own personal agendas, feeling like they already know they're only disposable tools and, though they're magically bound to act out their master's will, already they plot how to go their own way and follow the Legion's command only by forcible compulsion
I don't think I realized that connection either on my initial playthrough back in 2002! It's interesting that they put together old Horde remnants. Definitely a serious contrast with the new Horde that Thrall put together, no longer bound by the Demons. Frost Wyrms are powerful and fun to use. I don't think I had ever properly utilized them before, spreading them out to shut down as many buildings as possible. Good times on this mission! I find Kel'Thuzad to be a very compelling character in this campaign. His background is interesting, he was an Archmage with the Kirin Tor but was captivated by the Death Knights in Warcraft 2, sending him down his dark path. Thanks again for the detailed comment!
The Warlocks' Cripple is a very devastating spell, your only dispel is the Anti-Magic Shell, which requires Banshee Adept Training, Cripple lasts 60 seconds, you can have Necromancers to use Cripple on units like Dragons (since they're not immune in RoC), Raiders, Ogres, high-leveled creeps, etc........
@@kennethaninon6913 possessing them would be a great idea. I wonder if the peons on this mission can build the dragon roosts and other unique buildings needed for these units 🤔🤔
@@mickcraftgaming no, Peons cannot build when you possess them, though you can steal their units & use them against their own allies, but Peons you possess can build in Reforged
The best part of the Undead campaign are the enemies you fight. They're cool and different. Warcraft 2 Orcs is nice, and I wonder if they get the troll type right in Reforged. Hah, it seems like they can't even revive their heroes, just like in War 2! Wait, can the Lich use that mana back spell on summoned units? Also, Archimonde says three days? Well, keep an eye on the day/night cycle of the next mission, eh?
Definitely agreed - facing off against High Elves and Warcraft 2 Orcs is just too cool. I can remember being quite intrigued by that feature when I first played the game 22 years ago. I'd spend hours daydreaming of additional playable races being added to the game (I seem to recall a decent amount of hype online back then of this being a possibility). Good question, I'm not sure - I'm a Lich noob, barely ever played Undead when the game was new. I played primarily Orc & Human on the ladder. Haha I guess so, although I believe it ends up being much more than three days with the ridiculous turntime of that clock 😂
@@mickcraftgaming I wanted those playable High Elves so badly back in the day. Ah, alas. Honestly, the Blood Elves were clever, but they weren't the same! I asked about it, because imagine some Necromancers summoning skeletons and then just using them to charge the Lich's batteries. The clock is a clever attempt at stuff, but I don't really feel it works all that well. Needed for some Night Elf gimmicks, though.
@@BlizzardLegends with the exception of some cinematic videos, the purpose of my channel is commentary. There are plenty of videos featuring higher quality play than my own if that is your preference.
The Blackrock Orcs are very tricky to deal with, especially with Warlocks & Dragons, who are both deadly units of the Blackrock Clan
The Blackrock Clan carry on the fierce traditions of the Old Horde! 🔥
@@mickcraftgaming 100% true
@@kennethaninon6913
@@mickcraftgaming 😉👍
One thing of note i think needs to be talked about more is how this is the strangest level to introduce the Frost Wyrm in, you start out in a Lvl 1 base and right at the beginning the game gives you a free Frost Wyrm and gives a speal about how it's the favored pet of the Lich king, so you give it a click and see how good it's stats are, you send it out to attack one of the bases and it immediately gets caught by a Raider with a net and beaten to death by the Orcs before you get a chance to use it, as a kid it confused the hell out of me the Frost Wrym in all reality is a "win more or lose sore" unit, unlike the Red Dragons in WC2 it's not a heavy anti unit, it's more a Base staller and clean up unit for the late game, normally you would send them in to stall a Hero alter or put pressure on a expansion in reality the Frost Wrym is a siege tool more then it is a boss monster for the Scourge.
A good comparison is the Hero this mission gives you, the Lich which i would argue is my least favourite caster is most effective for the cost then the equivalent supply and resources needed to train up the equal number of Frost Wryms.
Fun reforged facts though, the Headhunters are changed out for Axe throwers in this mission to bring it more inline with the Warcraft 2 Horde, also the Warlock models where update to be more inline with the stormreavers.
Fun personal fact, Jubei'Thos is the server most of my WoW characters are on
I don't think I had ever used Frost Wyrms properly prior to my playthrough of this mission. They are most effective when spread out, disabling as many buildings as possible. Now, in the next mission, I give them a much more aggressive role...
I really like frost nova but I need to figure out the best way to utilize the Lich's other abilities.
It's smart that they updated the Horde units in Reforged. If I remember correctly, the earliest Warcraft 3 alpha screenshots had the headhunter as a forest troll, so they may have been changed to Jungle after these maps were already created.
Oh wow, it's interesting that a one off Warcraft 3 Orc has his own server! I may have to join you there one of these days. I've been meaning to hop back on WoW.
One last thing, the base that sends waves with Sappers are gonna be very deadly, prioritize the Sappers 1st or you risk losing your towers to their Kaboom
The Sappers are far more powerful than I was anticipating! I appreciate your comments and tips 🙏🏻
@@mickcraftgaming yes, they're powerful & thanks for appreciating my tips
@@kennethaninon6913 absolutely! Keep them coming!
@@mickcraftgaming 👍
This is awesome!
Thank you and thanks for watching!
Honestly, despite playing plenty of Warcraft 2, I somehow never picked up on the fact that, yeah, they most definitely recreated the makeup of the WC2 Horde with this Blackrock clan grouping (though, really, it feels more like a bunch of still-demon-worshipping remnants of other clans alongside Blackrock, like Dragonmaw or Warsong). I always did feel something was "abnormal" to this mission's enemy orcs, but it took a side-by-side comparison to remind me. Also serves as a great way to underline the difference between Thrall's Horde and WC2 Horde, how they changed and evolved, in terms of what units they use and do not use - ditching the demonic ones and picking up the more nature-based and shamanistic ones, and gaining different allies like tauren.
It was amusing to not just watch but HEAR this mission playthrough, because that's exactly how it always sounded for me too - I, too, never could resist the pull of just building a doomstack of Frostwyrms and plowing through the orc clans with them, it felt exactly the same way as how I tend to play it. Ner'zhul was smart in sending them against his former kin - certainly much more effective than abominations could've been.
As a side note, I also never really picked up too strongly on it before, but listening to the cutscene dialogues of Arthas and Kel'thuzad now, it's remarkable how it feels like I can pick up on Kel'thuzad simultaneously being compelled by the will of the Legion - binding him as if he were a robot to perform a specific course of actions - and slipping in some of the Lich King's and his own personal agendas, feeling like they already know they're only disposable tools and, though they're magically bound to act out their master's will, already they plot how to go their own way and follow the Legion's command only by forcible compulsion
I don't think I realized that connection either on my initial playthrough back in 2002! It's interesting that they put together old Horde remnants. Definitely a serious contrast with the new Horde that Thrall put together, no longer bound by the Demons.
Frost Wyrms are powerful and fun to use. I don't think I had ever properly utilized them before, spreading them out to shut down as many buildings as possible. Good times on this mission!
I find Kel'Thuzad to be a very compelling character in this campaign. His background is interesting, he was an Archmage with the Kirin Tor but was captivated by the Death Knights in Warcraft 2, sending him down his dark path.
Thanks again for the detailed comment!
I forgot, but Necromancers' Cripple requires Master Training
Good to know, thanks!
@@mickcraftgaming you're welcome, I always use Necromancers because I want to distract foes with Skeletons
@@kennethaninon6913 yes the necromancers are fantastic!
@@mickcraftgaming true, they're going to be useful in the Dalaran missions
The Warlocks' Cripple is a very devastating spell, your only dispel is the Anti-Magic Shell, which requires Banshee Adept Training, Cripple lasts 60 seconds, you can have Necromancers to use Cripple on units like Dragons (since they're not immune in RoC), Raiders, Ogres, high-leveled creeps, etc........
60 seconds of cripple is a long time! The Anti-Magic Shell would have been useful here...
@@mickcraftgaming yes, Anti-Magic Shell would've been useful, including Possession to possess Ogre Magi & Warlocks
@@kennethaninon6913 possessing them would be a great idea. I wonder if the peons on this mission can build the dragon roosts and other unique buildings needed for these units 🤔🤔
@@mickcraftgaming no, Peons cannot build when you possess them, though you can steal their units & use them against their own allies, but Peons you possess can build in Reforged
The best part of the Undead campaign are the enemies you fight. They're cool and different. Warcraft 2 Orcs is nice, and I wonder if they get the troll type right in Reforged. Hah, it seems like they can't even revive their heroes, just like in War 2!
Wait, can the Lich use that mana back spell on summoned units?
Also, Archimonde says three days? Well, keep an eye on the day/night cycle of the next mission, eh?
Definitely agreed - facing off against High Elves and Warcraft 2 Orcs is just too cool. I can remember being quite intrigued by that feature when I first played the game 22 years ago. I'd spend hours daydreaming of additional playable races being added to the game (I seem to recall a decent amount of hype online back then of this being a possibility).
Good question, I'm not sure - I'm a Lich noob, barely ever played Undead when the game was new. I played primarily Orc & Human on the ladder.
Haha I guess so, although I believe it ends up being much more than three days with the ridiculous turntime of that clock 😂
@@mickcraftgaming I wanted those playable High Elves so badly back in the day. Ah, alas. Honestly, the Blood Elves were clever, but they weren't the same!
I asked about it, because imagine some Necromancers summoning skeletons and then just using them to charge the Lich's batteries.
The clock is a clever attempt at stuff, but I don't really feel it works all that well. Needed for some Night Elf gimmicks, though.
Banish this orcish relic back to the DOS operating system - For the scourge 💀
The true servants of the Burning Legion arise! 💀💀
Would be more fun to watch without you talking.
@@BlizzardLegends with the exception of some cinematic videos, the purpose of my channel is commentary. There are plenty of videos featuring higher quality play than my own if that is your preference.
@BlizzardLegends out of curiosity, if I uploaded a separate playthrough of my videos with the commentary omitted, would that be of interest to you?