The Case for Heaven is Dismissed (Lee Strobel response)
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- Опубліковано 27 кві 2022
- Best-selling author Lee Strobel explores heaven, hell and the afterlife in the theatrical-release documentary, THE CASE FOR HEAVEN. We look at the film, its claims and the evidence presented to see whether we can be convinced that heaven awaits.
The Paulogia Trailer for The Case for Heaven (stand-alone video) -
• THE CASE FOR HEAVEN | ...
The Case for Heaven official trailer -
• THE CASE FOR HEAVEN | ...
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Imagine believing that I'm going to be happy in heaven while my brother and the other atheists I love are roasting eternally in hell. What kind of person is okay with a thought like that?
Exactly. If I could be in heaven, eternally blissful all while knowing that my family, friends etc. are being tortured forever, then that’s not ME in heaven. That’s a person who I don’t know, who I could never be…..
usually the out for this from christians is that you mind will be changed when you get to heaven and you will accept it and be okay with it. So another benefit of heaven is you will be a brain washed zombie who has lost all empathy and compassion for your fellow humans. All eternal afterlife's suck.
A delusional person raised on fairytales.
"Oh, that's OK. Because I'll be safe."
So vile.
Exactly. The only way that "makes sense" for someone to be happy in heaven despite someone they love being tormented in hell is if they're made unaware of it. And if they're made unaware, God must have removed the awareness from the person, violating their free will.
I lost it at "Hell isn't torture, it's torment"
Lol same! Like there's this some enormous difference there hahaha
Hell isn’t suffering, it’s pain. It’s not terrible, it’s horrible.
Wait… what!?
Best I can figure is it was just an attempt to shift the blame away from God. Torture implies a torturer, where as you can be in "torment" due to being cast out of God's presence, rather than God actively serving as tormentor.
...or some bullshit.
@@erimgard3128 But God created a world where the consequences of not worshipping him will cause rejection meaning you get "tormented' for not accepting God. God sounds very narcissistic to me. His ego is huge.
@@JellyNightSquid94 Yeah, and he's possibly the most thin-skinned character ever written about.
"You're going to walk away encouraged" -- Translated: "We're going to reinforce your presuppositional beliefs".
Encouragement is all they have to give you.
That.. and ASSERTIONS.
@James Henry Smith, writes _"Earth is literally a flat circle […]"_
All of observed reality disagrees with your claim. Personally, I'll side with reality.
@Wolf-dog Cat-dog, writes _"He actually believes a Globe Earth would disprove his God."_
I think it's more that it would show that (his interpretation of) the bible isn't inerrant. Why he's incapable of just ignoring the blatant inconstancies like most good christians, is beyond my comprehension.
I had a coworker who had several heart attacks. He did have one time where he was clinically dead for several minutes. I asked him what experiences he recalled, and he said…..”I didn’t see shit.” Still one of the most powerful things I’ve ever heard.
"I saw a man with one blue eye and one, I believe it was a brown eye, and he sung beautifully, and you fucking twats woke me up! Kill me!" :p
You saw David Bowie?
"Well, I guess he's my god now. KILL ME! I wanna hear his voice again!" :p
Kinda funny actually that christians see those horseshit visions as a reason to stay alive with a broken body in a world full of suffering, instead of being happy and safe forever with the most perfect being in the universe.
Not to mention the unwillingness to sacrifice and risk everything to save people from hell by killing christians and baptized children, just in case people stop believing and are sent to hell for it. Evidently they rather take the safe route of acting like they don't believe and risk the eternities of millions of people than to take a leap of faith and just give them heaven by slaughtering them. If I believed that killing someone would save them from a worse fate, I would. I guess that gambling with people's eternal lives is the christian way - just let lady luck decide how and when you go and how much you suffer along the way, or after death; I'm not risking my ticket to heaven for you.
😂😂😂
and that friend's name was Arthas Menethil. I mean Albert Einstein. then everyone clapped.
@James Henry Smith what about animals? How about followers who commit heinous acts? What about babies who weren’t able to go through the process?
@@Normie_Normalson his name is Angel Colon and he’s still with us.
That opening gave me “if you believe in god, this will totally convince you!” Vibes
if you believe it all the piece make sense
did they ever have anything else?
"If you believe in God, this will totally convince you," is the apologist's job description.
@@liarspeaksthetruth and lying, also part of the job description. Honesty not allowed.
@@nagranoth_ well, kind of, many of the things apologists say might be false or "lies" but most of the time theyre not *intentionally lying*, i think most of them do truly believe what theyre telling people even though its not the truth
Oh my god. You got the honest trailer guy? What a score!
@James Henry Smith imagine dropping acid only to discover your trips are guilt ridden, self righteous and boring.
@James Henry Smith what? Don’t you have any imagination?
@James Henry Smith then heaven is flawed. Therefore it's not real. I don't want to argue about your delusion anymore.
"He set out to prove heaven is real by standing sideways" hahahahaha omg im dead. After laughing to death I suppose ill find out the evidence for Lee myself. Thanks Paulogia
To be fair, it was the best evidence so far. The rest was even worse.
@James Henry Smith so you've been to heaven or know someone who has?
@James Henry Smith you didnt answer my question. Let me simplify.
The question was: So YOU, YOURSELF, or SOMEONE YOU KNOW personally. Has died gone to the biblical heaven or hell and came back?
Spicy Paul always cracks me up 🖖
My biggest problem with near death experiences is how christians dismiss any thing that doesn't fit in neatly with their theology.
A few months ago I had a near death like experience while undergoing surgery. I've never experienced anything comparable, I was just aware of my surrounding as if I was awake and it involved all five senses.
The issue for christians was that my experience was not in Heaven but in the Star Wars Galaxy. Because of this experience I now have a more conscious, vivid memory of fighting with Tusken Raiders than my last birthday. This experience was so vivid and life like that for the twenty or so minutes right after I had regained my normal conciseness I was 100% convinced that what I just just experienced was completely real and I had told the doctors as much when I first woke up. All I can say is that if Star Wars was written 2,000 years ago by unknown authors I may have converted. The brain is so weird and fascinating. I think that reason that christians have experiences like this is just because they spend so much of their conscious life thinking about it.
Wow. That must have been a cool experience.
This is without a doubt the most awesome NDE I have ever heard, thanks for sharing your experience!
YOU need to write a book about this - heck, at least a blog post. Your point about the NDE being related to what a person spends a lot of time thinking about is so poignant. That makes perfect sense.
Is it wrong that I really want to have that fantasy too? Like if they could market that like VR I'd sign up
Yo you gotta write about this so we can use ur story when debating NDEs.
“When I’m in the eternal paradise of heaven, I’ll find out if my brother is suffering eternal torture” is such an odd thing to think.
I guess I incorrectly assumed his idea of hell. Eternal torment not eternal torture.
Right. There's something insulting about that way of thinking.
It's worse than that. If Lee gets to Heaven and finds out his brother is suffering eternal torture in Hell, he won't shed a single tear because he will be too busy rejoicing over the perfection of God's justice for ensuring his brother is in everlasting torment while he gets to luxuriate in Heavenly bliss.
This is literally what Christians like Strobel believe will happen when they get to Heaven.
@James Henry Smith We'll find out who you're sock puppeting for soon enough Spamholio.
@James Henry Smith Don't you ever think that it all sounds a little too conveniently like something out of a morality tale?
The fact that he said that your wife becoming religious is "the worst news an athiest can get" speaks volumes
What amazes me is how easily these people are amazed.
It's a well known fact that Heaven can only be seen when standing sideways. Standing on one's head is how one sees Hell.
I love the fact that Jonathan Steingard is in the movie and was given free reign to voice his objections to Christianity. Just based on the clips he presents very reasonable and logical arguments against Christianity and I hope it really gets people to think. Maybe it will be the moment that helps someone wake up from their indoctrination.
putting rocks in shoes
Dare I say his less than a minute of screen time in this video was far more compelling than anything I've heard from Strobel before.
I'd love to believe that including such strong arguments against his position was indicative of Strobel's intellectual honesty, but having seen his own arguments, I just can't. Honestly, it would be easier to convince myself he'd been a Trojan Horse all along, just awaiting a chance to sneakily slip in compelling arguments against gawd's existence where unsuspecting Christians would accidentally expose themselves to it.
Jon Steingard is awesome. How great that they put in those clips!
I loved about how well Jonathan covered my greatest argument against Christianity. What kind of loving parent would damn his (or her) children to hell for disbelief, particularly when he/she has never produced any evidence.
Your trailer was hilarious. I also appreciate that you gave me more credit than I deserved. I had no idea who Hawk Nelson were. Even though they apparently formed a few hours away from me.
The trailer was hysterical!
I'm only 4 minutes into the to this and i'm fucking floored by Lee's take on his brother's afterlife. He literally brushes off his brother's potential eternal conscious torment like - oh well, I hope he's not on fire right now. And as for confirming his brother's fate once he (Lee) arrives in heaven (assuming Lee makes it in), if there's no sorrow in heaven, and Lee's brother isn't there, how will he (Lee) not spend eternity writhing in emotional pain, knowing the fate of his brother? C'mon. This is so sad, it's almost comical.
It’s really hard for me to accept that this is what my family has to feel about me
@@bariumselenided5152 It's less about thinking and more about stop thinking. If they literally think on it too hard they realize their conceptualization of how the afterlife works is flawed, so it's a natural cognitive block to prevent one from thinking. Our minds are wired to prevent us from having to discard everything we know about a topic and relearn it. It's why learning something the wrong way takes a LOT more effort to correct than it does for someone learning the first time.
I was taught that you basically have a memory wipe where you don't remember anyone you had a relationship with who went to hell once you're in heaven. That way you don't have to feel bad about them being tormented; and why there's no sorrow in heaven. I don't know if Lee believes this. But It's not comforting like how they try to make it out to be. Those who do believe this still say things like "we'll know when we get to heaven" speaking of whether someone made it or not, but if your memory's wiped then you'll never know. As far as people in heaven would know, those in hell never existed in the first place.
This really bothered me since none of my extended family were evangelicals and therefore weren't "real Christians" and would go to hell. When my Methodist grandparents died, the thought that my memories, the only thing I had left of them, would be taken away in heaven was very painful for me. Everything they do to course correct to make god good, loving just ends up making him terrible but in a different way.
@@ArnisKaye you mean you don’t want to be a hollowed out husk of your former self in eternal happy land? Wow, who’d have ever thought that might not be desirable lmfao
@@ArnisKaye I am so sorry to hear what you went through. It's saddening and infuriating when a religious worldview hedges its fragility through exclusivity and eternal torment. The further I get from faith, the more I look upon it and think, wow, religious creators really know how to manipulate people. It's sinister and way too often traumatic.
As a musician, I am always wary of videos or movies trying to make an argument that utilize heavy use of music. It is very easy to emotionally manipulate an audience through music. It is striking to me how obviously this movie is propaganda more than good faith argument based on the music alone.
The music in this movie utilizes heavy use of pads, strings, pulsating synths, and percussion. It’s common to use those in heavy use in soundtracks where you’re trying to create an emotion in the audience. But even movies don’t utilize these as heavily. Always be wary of documentaries and movies that use these instruments or techniques too much.
It’s obvious to me that they know what they’re doing. It was striking how apparent the differences were when you showed the atheist talking, and there was never any music playing behind his words or arguments. When you inter-spliced his arguments with the arguments of the Christians in the movies were making, it was almost comical how different it was, how obviously the music was trying to manipulate you. It’s not just the style of the movie, it’s their way of putting a crutch on their arguments. They know that their arguments have no logical way of standing up to scrutiny. So they have to emotionally manipulate the audience through music. As someone who spends a lot of my time writing music, it’s almost sacrilegious to me. I find it disgusting when people try to manipulate you through music, because it’s so effective.
When I was a Christian, during worship sessions I would always see the people putting their hands into the air during songs and wonder, "why don't I feel moved like they do"?
At first I assumed it was just because I was too shy to emotionally express myself like that in front of other people, and that was certainly true, but the other component was that I've always been well aware of the emotional effects of music. I've always been capable of feeling frisson, for example, and especially through sound. And in some cases, even worship songs. At least, when it wasn't so extremely bland and basically just "here's four chords repeated over and over with the word Jesus sprinkled every few seconds", begging for a key change or *something* melodically interesting.
So yeah...it didn't take long for me to figure out that they often raised their hands into the air during moments of songs where frisson felt more likely to happen. Any time I'm watching or listening to something that is emotionally provocative, unless it's a fictional movie, alarm bells go off in my head that say "THIS IS SELLING YOU SOMETHING, DON'T LISTEN TO IT".
The Athiest breakaway scenes were comically disjointed in the absence of a full orchestra like in the background of the rest of the "movie"
Even worse, if we accept music as evidence then it's also evidence of every other religion and supernatural claim. Every religion has music, is Hindu real because their music makes people feel like what their religion teaches? Does spooky music prove that ghosts are real? Does patriotic music prove that the government is moral and good?
So obviously and blatantly dishonest with even the barest of knowledge.
That sort of music always made me so uncomfortable as a Christian for that exact reason. Anyone seeking any form of objective information would cut out the emotional priming and focus on the contents so as to not let their emotions distract them from reason.
Right there with you. It can be artistic in a film score. In a documentary, anything close to heavy-handed is just pure manipulation. It seems they aren't too confident in the content of their documentary, so they went over the top to gloss over the mundane.
On a lesser note, it doesn't even sound well done. It's tasteless. _Dunkirk_ this is not.
Dude, how'd you score Jon Bailey to do the trailer voiceover? That's incredible!
My bet is that he gave him money.
@@unduloid you're probably right. Still, having an Honest Trailer embedded in a Paulogia video was an awesome surprise!
He typed out the entire script in an Honest Trailers comments section and epic voice guy had to read the whole thing
"In my epic voice"
he put a call out on twitter the other day.
But it's not Morgan Freeman!!! How can it be any good if it's not Morgan Freeman???? (
It's amazing that the lady's description of Jesus is exactly what appears in every US Sunday School classroom. Only a miracle explains it!
My thoughts exactly. That's the power of suggestion for you when it comes to religion/faith.
Probably the most anglo-looking man to ever come out of the Middle East.. but sadly, that's the "image" I think of as well. Because that's all people have.
Maybe it's just funny.
The weird way that the afterlife is approached by a lot of Christians is actually what started some of my first probing thoughts when I was in my early 20s. A family member who was a devout member of a different religion passed away suddenly when I was an older teenager. I remember being a little stunned as I listened to the people who I had heard preaching fire and brimstone for nonbelievers just a week before suddenly saying things like, "She's in a better place," or, "She's at peace." When I brought up to my mother that she was being horribly tortured in hell, she said, "You can't just say things like that." But I wanted to know, why not? If hell is a real place and a real consequence of our decisions, then we should be talking about it, and my family should be wailing and gnashing our teeth. But no one was doing that. You could say that they were engaged in wishful thinking from the other side, wanting to pretend hell is not real for awhile to feel comforted in the passing of a loved one, but to me it just made me question why heaven and hell being real felt so context dependent.
This was hardly the thought that deconverted me, but it was one of the first straws on the camel's back. I started to wonder if anyone around me really believed what they were talking about, or if it was just a nice thing to say at funerals so people didn't feel so sad.
I occasionally search up Christian responses to certain questions whenever I have conflicted feelings, and recently I searched for Christian answers to what happens to atheist family members who die and how to deal with that kind of situation, most of the articles I could find acknowledged how tragic it was then dodged the question entirely, focusing instead on how great it would be when we all got to heaven. Basically it was a "yeah, it's really tragic but don't worry, you'll feel better someday!"
@James Henry Smith Neat. 2 questions.
1. Evidence?
2. What would you say to someone who had an atheist in the family pass away?
@James Henry Smith That's no evidence. Also, I was more concerned with how you would deal with telling them that their loved one is/is going to be burning in hell for all eternity.
Every time I hear Lee Stobel say “Investigation” I just laugh uncontrollably
The Lee Strobel method:
1) Start by believing the conclusion while insinuating that you did not.
2) Ask softball questions of apologists - do NOT challenge the answers.
3) Collect emotional stories about Jesus.
3) Conclude: therefore this one specific god.
@@Iverath Holy shit you just listed the things I brought up to my mother when she forced me to read “A case for faith” and then she got horrendously pissed 😂
or expert, highly regarded world renowned biblical scholars
The fact that medically dead people's "souls" stay in the room and don't immediately go TO the afterlife isn't the slam dunk Christians think it is.
Now there is a great point
Nor is them existing. Helenism has souls.
Can you imagine the state of our judicial system if music tracks were allowed during witness testimony and presentation of evidence. sheesh.
I'm freaking dying .... you got Honest Trailers!!!!
@James Henry Smith I used to believe in Heaven. However, there are numerous problems with the view that Christianity has 0 answers for.
Consider the following: what age are aborted fetuses in heaven?
What are are you in Heaven? Are you the same person you were when you were five-- how about 10 years from now? Which character traits might you retain in your heavenly state? If you say, "I'll be completely transformed", then you have hope that you will not longer be the you that you sense, experience and appreciate life in any way that you are capable of perceiving now. Perhaps that appeals to you, but for me, that doesn't make any sense. In fact, the Bible seems to want it both ways: you both have ideas of what Heaven *might* be like... but also, if this is your defense, you do not know. It's a shame God can't make this clear.
Consider the free will defense of the problem of evil typically offered by Christians, "a free world is the best possible of all worlds", presumably a world that allows evil. Therefore, Heaven must allow evil to make it the best possible world, should it not?
People who honestly can’t wait to shed this life like a butterfly emerging from a cocoon sadden me. To go through your whole life, the only one you get, one filled with wonders big and small, spending it pining away for a paradise you’ll never see, is just depressing.
What's depressing is the each day you live brings you one day closer to non-existence.
So true. And what's in this paradise anyway? Gold streets and precious stones in a city where the sun always shines? This was the greatest possible thing some ancient people could think of... But I'd argue a modern city would far eclipse their small imaginations - not to mention the wonders of our natural world or the incredible things out in space.
@@leslieviljoen Words fail to describe what the afterlife will be like. Heaven will be indescribable happiness while hell will be utter hopelessness and despair forever.
@@Justas399 My mother, being a Christian and all, would presumably go to heaven if it exists. Would she be unhappy that I won't be joining her?
@@Justas399 Words fail to describe how valueless an eternal life is.
The show "The Good Place" captures it.
Or The Q from "Star Trek".
Eternity is damnation.
That was instructive. From now on, whenever I want to appear profound, I will stand sideways and gaze into the distance.
Bit of brilliance having Honest Trailer guy do that. Good get, as they say.
Only thing Lee's 18 month project convinced me of is that I never want to watch his vacation slides.
On the topic of knowing something you don't know you know or shouldn't know:
When I was a kid, there were a stupid amount of times when I'd be talking and my parents would stop me to ask if I knew the word I'd just used. Not only did I *not* remember using the word, I couldn't give more than a guess for the meaning afterwards. I read *a lot* as a kid, and I wasn't even aware that I was picking up new words based off context at the time. Almost every time, I used the word correctly, but I didn't pronounce most of them right because I'd never really heard them said.
It would have been a miracle if that wasn't just how language exposure works.
That happened to me as well. I was a bookworm and spent nearly all my spare time reading. I could use the words I'd learned appropriately and in the correct context, but everyone would laugh because of how I pronounced them. I'd never heard anyone speak them in real life.
@James Henry Smith
I'm legit surprised. Out of over 400 comments on his channel, you have at least 1 that isn't bullshit spamming. Is there a person behind the bot?
“The worst news an atheist can get”? I’m an atheist who is married to a creationist. My wife’s faith has nothing to do with my lack of faith.
I picture her following that up with: "Just kidding. I actually have cancer and will die in a week." and Lee issuing a big sigh of relief and saying: "That's great! You had me worried for a minute."
Does that work well? Do you ever try to discuss your incompatible views?
@@leslieviljoen We've discussed our differing views many times. The issue isn't so much her as it is with her family. I told her from the start that I would never stop her from attending church, even taking our son with her. However, I also told her that I would not pretend to validate her beliefs either. If my son were to ask me why I don't pray or go to church, that I would give him my honest answer. At first, mostly thanks to the pressure of her family, she took issue with raising our son in a secular way. But over time she has seen that I am true to my word, and has come around to allowing our son to make up his own mind, whenever that may be.
There are many mixed religious marriages that work out fine. I am also an atheist and my wife is a believer, though she no longer goes to church. We both respect each other for who we are. I've been married for 22 years with 10 of those years as an atheist. I don't need a god to tell me how to love my wife.
On the other side of the coin, my grandparents were married for almost 60 years, both true believers and my Grandfather treated my Grandmother like crap, but my grandmother didn't divorce because her religion said it was sinful.
@@leslieviljoen Believe it or not, both Seth Andrews and Bart Erhman are atheists married to believers
Ah, just imagine the arguments we'd get if he teamed up with J Warner Wallace. The greatest compilation of no evidence awaits
I like how Lee portrays himself as a serious investigator. From the start, he talks about his book meaning don’t forget to buy that too. Easy money when you have gullible Christians.
I believe his latest book is be called A Case for Cash
"Near-death experiences" are just that. Near-death. You can't die and then come back to life, once the brain shuts down, you're not coming back.
That's completely wrong. Brain activity ceases seconds after cardiac arrest, but you can be revived many minutes after CA.
How can there be a case for something that by definition cannot be investigated?
The only conclusion about this "investigation" is that Lee made a lot of dollars
I love that they included John Steingard and he's just like "yep, not convinced."
That just blew me away.
@James Henry Smith why do you believe that?
@James Henry Smith why do you think it's true?
@James Henry Smith So you don't have a reason. Ok.
what did he spend 17 months 29 days doing? because on day 1 he just confirmed his own bias
This and "Case for a Creator" were perfect demonstrations as to why Strobel is a crackpot.
@James Henry Smith how stoned are you? You sound like you are mushrooms and still haven't come down
His next book should be called, "The case for gullibility.."
Oof, that info about being awake during surgery hits me personally. I can say I certainly woke up during one of mine - I even gurgled at the nurses, who noticed and reacted to that. In my case, the surgery had lasted far longer than expected, so it's no surprise to me that things went weird. On the other hand, I also had some weirdly specific, realistic dreams during other surgeries. Again, no surprise to me. And that doesn't even bring up the kinds of drugs that can mess with people's memories intentionally - which are common during many surgeries, even somewhat minor ones like wisdom tooth removal.
All of which is to say.. yeah, brains working weird, either near death or due to drugs, it's no surprise that they can give weird memories, and no surprise that some of those are similar to real experiences or near to what death is expected to be like.
Amazing experiences.
Did you ever get the "don't care" pain killer during minor surgery? I did once. I could hear the surgeon scratching around, removing the Port-o-cath, but cared so little I was cracking jokes with the nurses. I think they were more likely to be laughing at the situation than my poor and drugged humour. But it was better than focussing on what the surgeon was doing!
Drugs like that result in all sorts of ideas, and none can be considered to relate to reality.
The last surgery I had was like that... on purpose. The anaesthesist told me I would be awake, kind of, hear what was around me, but I would feel no pain and be like half asleep.
And it was the case. I remember the noise, being conscient, but not in details.
Very much what was described here.
The last surgery I had, I woke up during it screaming, "Stop!" It really hurt.
Plus, we all dream. Some dreams are vivid. That doesn't mean we should interpret our dreams literally.
Our brains are so powerful and complex that so much weird voodoo psychic nonsense is actually pretty real. And, of course, in the idea realm, real psychic nonsense could easily link up to your religious and bogus idea of heaven and convince you of it
Dude! You got Epic Voice Guy, Jon Bailey! That's awesome!
the Honest Trailers voice made me lol. Well done. Also, WHY WOULD HE PUT STEINGARD IN THAT MOVIE?????? But props to Jon for going in and burning the whole thing down.
"This may sound amazing" is a strange way to say "This is horrifying, that you could be aware during major surgery".
I woke up during knee surgery when I was 14. I opened my eyes and lifted my head to see what the surgeon was doing. I could see the open cut and the bone exposed before they put me under again. It wasn't horrible, more like how cool it was to be able to see inside my own body. My perspective was likely due to my age, many teens can't conceive their own mortality.
As commented on his interview on the “Unbelievable” channel. No matter how many anecdotes and tales Lee Strobel lists, not one has been peer reviewed and shown to be true. It's no surprise that he wants to believe them, since his faith rests on an afterlife, and heaven and hell being real.
The reason Strobel advocates belief in God and heaven is because it gives him access to paper rectangles with the portraits of dead presidents on them.
The mere fact that Christ taught the heaven and hell exist is enough. He warned of sinning and hell so much so that it would be good to cut your right hand off and gouge your eye out if it causes you to sin lest you be cast into hell forever.
@@Justas399 Nobody alive today can say with any certainty what Jesus said or did not say. The only records we have of him are stories written decades after his death written by people who never met him.
What would peer review of an NDE even look like? Peer review is for methodology. These are just anecdotes.
It is true that none of the cases have been "shown to be true", although some don't have demonstrable or provable natural explanations. Either outcome is speculative. But certainly many have been peer-reviewed. The Journal of Near Death Studies, operating under the University of Virginia, does review and publish on near death experiences of this type.
Third hand retelling of near death experiences? I guess that follows the biblical formula.
@James Henry SmithWhat are you talking about?
@James Henry Smith Have you seen it?
@James Henry Smith Same as Paul and the other witnesses to Jesus.
Omg! The honest trailers guy!
That trailer was the best thing I've ever watched.
6:58 - Yeah, the internet has that sort of effect on people.
I love the honest tailors voice guy even more now
I REALLY need to get my NDE stories out on my channel!! I went thru 2 separate severe heart & kidney failures, each resulting in my being clinically dead for close to an hour. Each instance made me believe the BS less & less, and question & learn more & more.
Boy, being the only free-thinking rational humanist in my huge family is exhausting, and nobody wants to know a THING about how vastly different MY experiences were!! Especially since I was as brainwashed, blissfully ignorant christian as it gets before the first time! 🤔🙄🤦♀️
Yo I wanna hear more
@@tapiocaweasel I'll do my best to get my story time vlog out asap, keep watch on my channel!
🤞😅
That is truly amazing! You say that for each time you had no blood flow to your brain for an hour. According to the Wiki
"Without special treatment after circulation is restarted, full recovery of the brain after more than 3 minutes of clinical death at normal body temperature is rare. Usually brain damage or later brain death results after longer intervals of clinical death even if the heart is restarted and blood circulation is successfully restored. Brain injury is therefore the chief limiting factor for recovery from clinical death."
"In 1990, the laboratory of resuscitation pioneer Peter Safar discovered that reducing body temperature by three degrees Celsius after restarting blood circulation could double the time window of recovery from clinical death without brain damage from 5 minutes to 10 minutes. This induced hypothermia technique is beginning to be used in emergency medicine."
@@oscargordon Yeah, well, I was found not breathing & unresponsive the first time they said it had been appx. 40mins, then it took 10min to get me to the hospital, they hooked me up to a machine & put me in a medical coma, certain I would have severe brain damage.
The second time I was in the hospital & had just gone thru having massive heart failure followed by 10min trip to the hospital where they shocked me back 18 times over the course of 90mins before they stabilized me. I remember the whole thing, it was great. Anyway, next morning still in the hospital, I had 2 pulmonary embolisms, which caused my heart to be stopped for close to an hour while they did CPR the whole time. I was in another coma for weeks.
Best part is, I had clearly expressed DNR wishes BOTH TIMES, but had strictly reinforced the forms after the first time they were ignored. They didn't just ignore them the second time, they invalidated them by putting a machine in my chest to keep me from dy!ng again! I tell you, that's enough to make this suffering lifelong lab rat atheist think maybe I did end up in he11 after all...
@@BernicePanders And the documentation that says you had no pulse for 40 minutes is where? Are you saying that in the 10 minute ride to the hospital they weren't performing CPR on you?
It sounds like you have been having a really tough time medically and I can't imagine what it would be like to go through what you have been going through.
Unless you had fallen through ice into a frozen lake and then they dragged you out, your heart was not stopped for 40 minutes.
Lee wanted his verdict. Well the jury has met, they have deliberated, and they have unanimously concluded that the defendant, heaven, is not guilty of existing. Thank you Lee Strobel
Court adjourned.
I guess we'll just have to get our shit together and deal with reality as is. Come to think of it, even if heaven did exist, that may be quite a good idea regardless. Nah, forget it, you'd have to convince people of it first and good fucking luck with that - any idea how many people rather believe inconsistent horseshit just to avoid reality? If it was so easy to convince people that it is beneficial for everyone to just deal with reality, reality would've done that already.
@James Henry Smith I gotta say, I’m really confused about what point you’re trying to make. Native American genocides mean traditional beliefs must be true? What?
@James Henry Smith are you… ok? You don’t seem well
This made me laugh so much 🤣
Of all the things that would fit into the category of "worst news I could receive from my wife"; anything that involves her not dying does not make the list.
How is she supposed to tell him if she's dead? Is Lee Strobel going to prove ghosts, too?
@@autobotstarscream765 I didn't say being dead.
@@TheQuantumWave He wouldn't give up hope as long as was still alive, right...? 😬
Having left Christianity a decade ago, I've tried to consider what sort of wishful thinking I've had about what heaven would be. In nearly all cases, these thoughts had the following assumptions:
1. I would have all of my bodily senses (which would necessitate a physical brain and sensory organs)
2. The feelings would be pleasurable, but wouldn't eventually induce boredom (ie. no loss of dopamine receptor sensitivity)
3. God would want me to act independently within heaven so I could experience these feelings myself.
These assumptions are never confirmed in the Bible or other, supposedly, "divinely inspired" works. Basically, my own projections of paradise were filling in the "gaps" of expectations as to what heaven actually would be like. When you think about the context and demeanor of Yahweh as projected in the Bible, I imagine all three assumptions would be false as Yahweh is depicted as a petty, jealous god. Truly, if it were to exist, heaven would be eternal, exhausting and boring servitude to Yahweh's ego.
You'd think even, or maybe especially, a god would also find it tedious.
better to reign in hell, eh? bold strategy, cotton
@James Henry Smith oh? Do you have any evidence? Or do we have to just take your word? The Bible is not evidence.
You will never convince atheists with assertions, and that is all you have done.
@James Henry Smith is this some crazy sci-fi/fantasy novel you're writing? If so, I gotta tell ya, it's a bit far-fetched. If not..? Well then I don't know what to say except, "maybe seek professional mental help."
@James Henry Smith you have Clarke's 3rd law bass-ackwards. It is not "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from advanced technology."
Souls are unevidenced. Magic, black or otherwise, does not exist. And aliens? While intelligent life may exist elsewhere in the universe, there is no evidence that it does, and even less that aliens have, or will soon, visit Earth.
You are not a prophet, but rather, you are an internet kook.
My brother had a bad accident with significant brain trauma and died a couple of times on the operating table. For 3 weeks afterwards while he was in ICU, his brain wasn't working right. During his lucid moments he was clearly unable to distinguish between reality and imagination. Any random thought that crossed his mind was absolutely real to him. I remember sitting with him one afternoon while he described the glowing blue bugs that were crawling through the IV in his arm and up through the veins on his arm. He was calm and lucid the whole time, and appeared to believe completely that what he was saying was true. Brains don't produce reliable accounts of reality under these conditions, and anyone who imagines that they can get reliable information from a dying brain is just deluding themselves.
I'm roaring at your trailer!!! 😂 😂 😂
Ahhh, Hell is not a torture chamber its a torment chamber..... that's fixes everything thanks Lee
you will not burn for all eternity, you will just be on fire for ever
Ah, so it’s infuriating
@@tompatterson1548 I know, it's like saying "we don't like to call it a 'compound fracture' it just that your bone wanted to say 'hello' 👋.
@@naruarthur yeh not infinitely, it's just never gonna stop. The constant apologizing on behalf of a God is baffling once you break down justifications. It make Christians say some foolish things.
I feel much better now.
I was on space mountain...and
Something was moving me...not just along the track. I felt elated and I just knew the spirit of Goofy was with me.
It annoys me when people say they died and came back. To be dead is for your body to be permanently unable to sustain life. Anything else is just a temporary unconsciousness from a serious injury or illness
I had an NDE during surgery - I went through the tunnel and met my dead grans, and said "well how do you like that, I was wrong." but then the dead relatives said that it wasn't heaven, it was alien technology that saves back-up copies of conscious earth beings for later reanimation in a matrix world, and that the stories of meeting fave gods is just for calming/ transition purposes. I know it was a dream now, but is seemed quite real at the time, and is far more plausible than the relig one.
Am I the only one who feels genuinely happy to see the same apologists reciting the same arguments, I've debated and argued with them for so long they have strangely become my friends or something like "hey a familiar face".
“Lee Strobel, the thinking man’s idiot.” Potholer54. 😂
Thanks so much for this Paul. I went to see this with my family as the only atheist and it’s been frustrating talking to them since. Thanks for your clarity and sensitivity
Virtual hugs through the internet brother.
@James Henry Smith This is the same promise Time Share sales people claim for investors if they buy such vacation property. Funny how p-ass-tors don't have to show ANYTHING tangible, other than a "Good Book", to the sheeple they fleece for the tax-free donations
@James Henry Smith Goodness, the delusions of people !! Hopefully such people just stay in churches most of the time with ideas like this. Crazy !!
@James Henry Smith huh?
@James Henry Smith oh sweet. I could go for some superpowers.
LOL the movie trailer guy "by standing sideways... in a beach.. in a forest..." that was fantastic.
Props to Lee for representing the descenting viewpoint with some decent honesty.
I think you probably meant to write "dissenting".
@James Henry Smith huh?
@James Henry Smith This still makes no sense.
@James Henry Smith lol ok. Whatever you say. Not sure how any of this pertains to the topic. But its time for your nappy change and afternoon snooze.
@James Henry Smith ----'" Defamation detected!"
Dullness detected.
The phrase “nothing to gain and everything to lose” is such a ridiculous way to describe people who are publicly telling their interpretations of situations that they think prove heaven or an afterlife, as if some angry mob is going to descend on them because they started tripping out while unconscious or were awake for an operation. Plus, it’s even more ridiculous considering most of the people that share these experiences are then made somewhat famous within their circles and seem to profit off of sharing their stories, at least in some aspect
People who report NDEs generally get treated as cuckoo by their doctors and even family members, as NDEs bring a message of unconditional love and acceptance and a higher power that is unconditionally loving and thus clash with virtually every religious tradition as well as new atheism.
@@pandawandas doctors don’t typically comment on patients beliefs, it’s simply not their business. Family members of the patient would more than likely be of the same religious background so it’s odd they would treat somebody who by their beliefs had a vision of Christ as insane. This idea that NDEs clash with every religion is true, including the fact that it conflicts with Christianity itself since the concept of unconditional love and acceptance flies directly in the face of hell as a concept. Also there is no “new atheism” there is just atheism, meaning without theism, there is no new without theism
@@sworddemonboggle1491 " doctors don’t typically comment on patients beliefs, it’s simply not their business. "
You haven't spoken to many NDErs, then. Their experiences are quickly written off as hypoxia-induced hallucinations by doctors.
". Family members of the patient would more than likely be of the same religious background so it’s odd they would treat somebody who by their beliefs had a vision of Christ as insane. "
The problem is that NDEs tend to be more universal than just images of Christ. Studies done on NDEs show extreme cross-cultural similarities that transcend religious symbolism.
"This idea that NDEs clash with every religion is true, including the fact that it conflicts with Christianity itself since the concept of unconditional love and acceptance flies directly in the face of hell as a concept. "
I agree if you interpret Christianity literally. I don't know if it was ever meant to be interpreted that way, though.
@@pandawandas What else is a doctor supposed to do with that information? It's not the job of the medical profession to indulge a patient's subjective interpretation of what is a well understood physiological response to a highly stressful situation. If a patient chooses to disagree with that diagnosis, then they are free to believe whatever they like.
@@pandawandas yes, the doctor is not going to believe in a patients interpretation of well understood medical phenomena. If your idea of being written off as insane is because a medical professional doesn’t believe you, then your persecution complex outclasses any other religion I’ve seen. Moving onto NDEs, you’re agreeing that they take the form of whatever would bring the most comfort to the subject, showing no preference other than what their culture provided. I’m lost as to what your argument here is, as you seem to be alluding to some kind of altruistic point but not outright saying it while agreeing that chalking this up to a specific religious deity is nonsensical
26:48 She’s describing the Norse God Baldur pretty well 😂 he was known as the most beautiful of the Gods and matched her description 😂 in Norse Mythology, he resides in Helheim so I guess it fits 😅
Baldur is a little more of a Christ figure than a lot of the typical farfetched comparisons, although it's still complicated by Odin the All-Father sending himself to death on a tree and rising again rather than sending Baldur to that fate (like how in Trinitarianism, God the Father sending Christ to the cross is God sending Himself rather than a Son who's a separate and subordinate Being).
Your trailer was brilliant. Thanks for the hearty chuckle.
The insane college I graduated from is hosting this dude now. They made a whole Lee Strobel Center
Nice Honest Trailer! Gives me a good feeling when channels I love work together, especially atheist content.
When I had my wisdom teeth removed I experience waking up several times during the operation from what I was told and what others have told me afterwards it seem to be rather common in more minor operations. I did not have this experience during my operation many years later when my gallbladder was removed.
Love the channel, thanks for all your great work
Much appreciated!
That Honest Trailers was hilarious... as usual. 🤣🤣🤣
I once blacked out for a few seconds and thought I'd been out for around ten minutes because of all the weird dreams that had flashed through my mind. Came to on the couch and was indignant that my husband hadn't gotten up from his chair and come over to me, he literally hadn't had time lol. Dreams happen a lot faster than real life.
I had to have surgery on my shoulder back in 2012. The doctor warned me that they intentionally keep patients semi-conscious under anesthesia as it's generally safer than fully going under. They called it twilighting. Very normal apparently. Strange sensation to be sure.
That yellow Volkswagen in the beginning reminded me of the beginning of "The Shining" , which begins with a yellow Volkswagen too!!
Have to start by saying Steve Caballero, the skateboarder highlighting his conversion in this movie, is an absolute legend. I don’t agree with his theological conclusions, but have mad respect for him; ride on brother!
I have not seen this Strobel movie on heaven, but have read “The Case For Christ”, the book that made him. He fancies himself a hard-hitting investigative reporter, but the book was the exact opposite of a critical and unbiased analysis. If you think it is good, you are already a believing Christian looking for validation. If you are looking for a legitimate investigation and analysis of evidence, you will be entirely unimpressed. It is apologist making claims, soft-balling a few weak counters, then dismissing them. Not once does he ask a hard question or consult an expert with countering views. He has no remaining credibility as an investigative journalist.
Gonna be awkward when the Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, and Witnesses all show up in heaven together.
Or is there a no true Scotsman on the way....
I did have a dream about Jesus's coming. The kids at school were saying, 'Jesus is coming today.' While I was in the playground, a flash erupted and ... an image of Christ that looked like a painting came down.(my subconscious must have had a low special effects budget that day.) We went to heaven.. where a gorilla measured our hands... then I woke up.
Wait... I have seen the light! You can only get into heaven if your hands are the right size!
Time for a new religion!
In the immortal words of Bill Wurtz "You could make a religion out of this!"
@@AegixDrakan That is the Wurtz idea I ever hoid...'
Predictably outstanding. Thank you. And now I know that heaven is just out of frame screen left.
The Big Lebowski reference was so good there, hahaha. Top-notch work as always Paul.
It was so powerful, I'm a sideways stander now. I face stage left in life.
My biggest question about Near Death Experiences is:
What is the point of sensory organs at all - if the "soul" can sense everything around us just fine anyway?
For that matter, what is the point of a physical body in the first place, if our "soul" can exist and function without it?
That was one epic voice over!
Great analysis and hilarious trailer! 😁
Holy mother of quetzcoatl that trailer was the best joke i have seen here, great job Paul!
This is amazing! All those near death experience really convinced me that aliens obducted my my neighbor.
When Lee said that his wife telling him that she became a Christian was the worst news an atheist could hear, it seems to me that Lee had some very skewed priorities. I can think of half a dozen things off the top of my head that would be worse to hear, like "I have cancer," or, "I'm pregnant and it isn't yours."
Compared to things like that, "I'm a follower of Jesus Christ," seems significantly less dire. If Lee isn't exaggerating, I'd say he was wrapped up in his convictions in a rather unhealthy way.
LOL Sure, if she's pregnant and it isn't yours, that is in most cases worse, even if it's for the same reason: that her brain has gone to shit. But I'm projecting. I'm thinking of my wife, not Lee's. If my wife's brain would go to shit, that would be worse than cancer. She can be happy or die happy with cancer, she's already gone if her brain is. Her memories and cognition are who she is and who I love.
His wife is probably already batshit crazy. She married Lee after all. At the very least I have zero confidence in her cognitive abilities and then "I have cancer" would be the worst thing out of those three and I'd still doubt it until I have evidence that is'nt her word.
Totally. And he’s saying that to manipulate the target audience who already affirm their beliefs but might be skeptical. Documentary-style films set up a subject usually a singular subject like this, and they setup a plot and themes to build your curiosity about the subject, throw in some fancy graphics or in this case animated watercolor paintings throw in some interviews with proclaimed subject experts or people impacted by the subject, then at the end give you a big payoff to leave you satisfied that you took the time to watch it. Only watching a documentary about mega tractors that we can see, smell, touch and watch it perform its job while learning about the parts and manufacturing and why it’s yellow in color… well, you get it…
"I was a shit person and a shit husband which automagically made me EEEEEEEEEEVIL!"
**mindless applause from mindless intended audience**
"I **wet sharting noises** love Jesus!"
**mindless applause from mindless intended audience**
"Plus two!"
**mindless applause from mindless intended audience**
I really don't know why people like Strobel try so hard. So much wasted effort on an audience too stupid and single-witted to appreciate it.
@James Henry Smith your comments make my balls ache
I don't love you anymore?
Thanks for the video :)
I haven't watched enough of your videos this is high value, love your work. Please keep doing it, it is important!
Thank you! Will do!
@@Paulogia Hey I think you should collab with Majesty of Reason UA-cam channel he is a cool person
When I quit the JWs I investigated a bunch of churches and doctrines. I was never convinced of heaven. I eventually found a small church in Canada that taught *nobody* goes to heaven and when I read the NT in the light of Jewish ideas about how what occurs in heaven was said to have been manifest on earth, and nice versa, in other words the "heavenly hope" was God's plan for earth (the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven, we don't go up) and that there are no scriptures that blatantly and unmistakably say "you go to heaven when you die" whereas the bible is full of statements that the faith is that of Abraham (to inherit the land) it made a lot of sense to me. Then I realized, if that makes so much sense, what's with almost every Christian thinking they're gonna go to heaven? That's when I realized the whole thing was BS.
Yup.
It all goes back to Mesopotamian henotheistic monolaitrous tribalism.
I think the movie should have been titled "Is There A Case For Heaven?" so that it would follow Betteridge's law of headlines.
I'm getting older and some of my children are adults. I'd love to believe that I would get to spend unlimited time with them but I know that that's just not reality. That makes me cherish every moment with them now. It's so much more special.
Yesterday, I stood up too fast. I felt dizzy and saw bright, shiny, star like things. HEAVEN IS REAL!!!! I was having a meniscus tear repaired. I woke up in the middle of the surgery. The first thing I saw was a computer screen, positioned about 6 or 7 ' in the air at the foot of my bed. On the screen, I saw a medical device that appeared to be spinning and I could hear the sound of the device. I clearly remember seeing the Dr. looking intently at the screen, when I said. 'Is that my knee?". All eyes in the room turned to look at me, even the Dr. He just calmly said, "go back to sleep, you'll never remember this. I remained awake for a few seconds then, nothing. Later that day, in recovery. The Dr. stuck his head in to check on me. I told him I remembered everything when I was awake and even told him what he said about me not remembering anything later. He just said, hmmm you really were awake.
27:00 How do you have a 'corroborated' near death experience? Two people cannot experience the same death.
Strobel has made a pile of cash conning the emotionally needy.
Cor blimey Paul! Nearly 100,000 subs!!
Brilliant Paul! You are great! 😁
I saw God once in a dream. He was just a funny little golden man who gave me an egg. He had golden eggs with lights inside them that represented souls. The egg he gave me didn't have anything in it and he seemed kinda disappointed that it didn't work for me like it worked for him.
Anyway where's my book deal and speaker tour dates
If you got in touch with the correct religious types, I'm sure you could get a deal. For a percentage of the profit, I'll find someway to verify your story.
Lee Strobel: The case for credulity and vivid imagination.
Excellent content as usual.
I did not expect a Honest Trailer plug.
Is it just me... I'm only at the part where he says "You'll be excited..." and my reaction is... I'm not sure how I feel about a movie getting people excited to go to the afterlife. I feel it's pretty bad because they may do something rash to... y'know... expedite the trip. And I couldn't wish that on anyone.
@20:50 Oh! I actually had an experience just like this when I was in high school... I think? I was having oral surgery to remove my wisdom teeth when I woke up in the middle of it right as the dentist had removed one of my teeth. There was a lot of panicked response, but I went under again almost right after that.
I had eye surgery recently and I'm told by my surgeon that he had several problems throughout my surgery because I kept waking up during the surgery this shit happens not only regularly in surgery but daily
@James Henry Smith what the hell does what you have said have to do at all with my comment about people almost always wake to some extent during surgery I didn't mention Gucci heaven icecream or any thing what's the connection?
@James Henry Smith then maybe you should rewatch the video waking during surgery directly relates to people knowing what's said during surgery and thinking it's a near death experience
@James Henry Smith and no the video is about near death experience not heaven
This is the best refutation of Near Death Experiences (NDE) I've ever seen. Great video!
Huge props to epic voice guy from Honest Trailers. Made my day