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When should you tap out to a Heel Hook?
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- Опубліковано 25 січ 2022
- The heel hook: the most taboo fighting technique in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Many BJJ tournaments outright ban this technique, although some allow it. The heel hook is always legal in MMA competition, but because of the stigma surrounding leg locks, many fighters and grapplers have absolutely stunted their development as leg lockers.
Q&A with the Coach from a BJJ white belt: when should you tap out to a heel hook? How do you Ora give them safely? And can you “just roll out” of a heel hook?
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Ramsey Dewey is an MMA coach and fight commentator, and occasional musician based in Shanghai, China.
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What do you think is the most dangerous technique to practice?
The techniques of Captain Kravmaga, that why I prefer to get beat up instead of mortally wounded my attacker by using the techniques he show us.
No touch knockouts
Throat strikes lol
@@stephanwatson7902 More like eyepokes, Jon Jones type of stuff. Eyepoke jabbing your opponent
Either inverted heel hooks or jumping guard- both can jack up the knees pretty bad
Watching now but I'm going to guess the answer is EARLY and OFTEN lol
early and often
Francis Nogano will skip this video.
Francis pulled the reap off his leg, sat on it. He defended perfectly. He was not really in any danger.
The first gym I trained at had a strict no leg locks before blue belt and even after that many of the blue belts never worked on them either. It was crazy when I visited a 10th Planet gym after that and I realized the gaping hole in the "no leg lock" philosophy because everyone at 10P was wrecking me with them. Fortunately a new instructor came to gym I used to be at and started slowly introducing leg locks to everyone which was great. Gave us all a much needed basic knowledge
There is a flipside to this argument. My gym was the exact opposite, were everyone was learning leg locks from when they first started. This introduced to the new people the terrible habit of giving up position to go for a leg lock. The instructor decided to tone down the leg lock training after that, and teach fundamentals first.
@@BlueDongDroop that can be true. That is often the reason of waiting to teach them. Personally though I feel like this issue goes away once you train leg lock defense which is an integral part of leg lock training. In my current gym people learn leg locks on day one but we also do a lot of leg lock defense. As a result you are forced to learn how to advance position (either by gaining top position or by getting better leg entanglements since everyone has relatively solid defense. As a result people still learn to advance position they just now have more tools in their arsenal.
@@BlueDongDroop you don't have to be on your back to leg lock you know
“I could tear apart his knee but I’m not going to” LOL I love it
Great advice, love the tips on how to train safely!
As a guy who’s been through a ligament reconstruction + micro fracture (from soccer) I would tap out as soon as they take the slack out of the joint. No need to risk going through another 11 month recovery to try and show how tough I am.
The problem is that sometimes assholes dont let you tap
Be aware, it is not unknown. Consistent repetitive practise placing a small imperceptible stretch on knee ligaments will cause accumulative damage .
Months ago I showed a family member a heel hook. I'd shown him other locks, but with this one he said "maybe it's not working, because of my shoe". I just laughed and tried to explain, why it wasn't painful yet ("painful" or trigger the "that shouldn't bend that way" response, whatever we call it)
The moment i got locked in by a leg lock, i tap immediately even before the guy apply any pressure. Sounds cowardly but my leg ligaments have suffered enough
Sounds smart to me.
In my gym we have an unwritten rule while sparing if you secure a tight heel hook you pause, don't apply pressure and give the " you're fucked" look to your opponent. They get extra time to decide if they want to tap or get there knee ripped off. If it's a white belt or a novice it's catch and release
That rule should be mandatory for all places.
I don't know if you'll read this but as a guy who has spent a lot of time working leg entanglements it's always an interesting session teaching people when to tap to leg locks, like you said when in doubt just tap; but as a general rule of thumb I use, if they haven't caught the heel then it is safe to roll "against" the heel hook as you'll be hiding the heel, where as if they already have caught the heel you have to either heel slip or roll "with" the pressure.
Although I think the best defense regarding leg entanglements is the hand fight/grip fight, almost everytime beat the hands and you'll be fine, so pretty much when in doubt fight the hands and hide the heel, which will eventually lead to freeing the knee line and then no danger.
Quick note regarding when to tap, you touched on it in the video, but I find when teaching people what heel hook pressure feels like, I will normally apply an inside heel hook as slow as I can and I had a team mate describe it as "a general discomfort that feels like someone blowing up a balloon in my knee".
If you read this have a lovely day 👍😁
The thing about knee injuries is that they're kind of like food poisoning: you know you have it but it can be hard to tell where you got it from. I thought I got my knee injury from a heel hook but looking back I probably got it trying to vigorously pass half guard the same night.
I suspect that often the injury sustained actually started on a micro level and possibly even by a different exercise, maybe days before it finally happens.
You have to know the position and visually know when you are in trouble and tap out since as correctly mentioned in the video you can't tell by pressure. Especially if someone does the move as a hard fast hook that you just don't feel, just not worth the risk to the knee joint.
The rule at my academy is that when you get a heel hook grip if you maintain a 3 second hold then the guy should tap, because within those three seconds even a poor finish can cause injury so no need to crank
Heel hooks are also scary because if you defend an inverted a heel hook the way you would an outside heel hook and vice versa you blow up your own knee
taboo in Gracie lineage that spread, but Fadda lineage used this a lot, they even defeated the Gracies with it
Excellent video! I teach all leglocks at white belt so that they have an understanding of them, which helps tremendously with defense. But we always emphasize taking it slow, work on holding the entanglement rather than getting the bite and going straight to a finish….and if someone looks like they want to spazz out, then let it go. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for having me on the show Ramsey! 😂
The problem with this technique is that it kind of doesn't hurt that much until something rips apart.
IMMEDIATELY!!! LOL If its already sunk in and the only thing preventing your ankle being broke is the mercy of your partner, tap. There will....or can.....always be another match. You dont grow new ankles. Other moves you know have some leeway, ankles and knees do not like to bend the wrong way. The other issue is you dont always feel the "pain". As Im typing this I hear you mention it. BRAVO Coach Ramsey! Thats the big issue. You are your worst enemy in this situation, so act like your best friend.
Excellent timing! My right knee hurts right now because I didn’t feel the leg lock early enough yesterday.
My old school kept us from leg locks of any type until very high rank. They said that they were too dangerous, that it doesn't hurt until it's too late, and by the time you think to tap, you are already hurt. Its neat to hear other philosophy on the subject.
"Hello I'm Ramsey Dewey and this is... uh ( What's his name again? )😅"
Thank you for sharing ☺️.
Nice Faija Roxa.
Something for Q&A with the coach: Would an academy style system for MMA, like there's with other sports such as football (Soccer) or Chinese sports schools where kids not only learn to fight but also get an education, work?
Immediately. The answer is Immediately.
I like heel-hooks.. held tight but never torqued when I snatch one... it usually yields a rushed tap once it's set up anyway..
I love heel hooks. They are the nuclear bomb against higher belts.
Only if they haven't practiced the entries into leg entanglements. Black belt with blue belt legs is awkward. But it does happen and for any neglected position that would be true.
I'd rather tap early than late to heel hooks because ifnyou leave it too late then you can't train for ages.
It’s the same thing with the kneecaps. You can put the web of you thumb and index on the bottom of the knee cap and push towards the ass while straightening his leg. The pain comes the moment the kneecap moves.
Everyone is uploading so much recently! Synchronicity.
New videos every day for years and years on this channel. This is old news.
Just yesterday I did and almost immediately.
In my gym we have to ask each other before if we're up for heel hooks ( I'm a blue belt hobbiest and don't think I'd even do it in a self defense situation) anyways the guy got a heel hook and I tapped, coach grilled him when he seen it but I said no worries cos he just wasn't aware of the rules and I've no shame of putting my knees before tapping.
@@RAPEDBYBLACKS 😂😂😂😂😂
I remember that video where the BJJ fight got resumed in the heel hook locked position, vs Rousimar Palhares... The other guy tried to roll out and got his knee bent within a second, that's nightmare fuel.
Is that your arch enemy, Ramsey Don'tey?
Thanks for the vid coach!
Too soon, Ramsey 😭 I'm still crying over Cyril's loss
Thanks coach !
I don't know why I put off watching this video for two whole days ; I learned a lot from it.
Strangely enough, I'm intimately familiar with the position of holding heel-hooks and straight-ankle-locks and applying light pressure and traction... because of my Job.
But I've never been on the receiving end so I feel as if I'm not benefiting as much.
I like to think that if I should ever grapple, I can apply a straight ankle lock because I'm all too familiar with applying the technique because it's a weekly, sometimes daily practice.
In related news, there is a degree of training you can do to strengthen your knees so you can resist the tap longer... but no amount of training will let you resist a locked-in full strength heel-hook. There's only so much Knees-over-toes training can bulletproof your knees from lateral torsion of the knee capsule. The rest comes down to having Tree Trunk Legs that are Bigger than the guy trying to apply the Heel-Hook.
If I don’t want to continue, I’m tapping out, it’s that simple.
Where would bjj be if there was no key hole surgery to fix all the broken knees, backs and shoulders ? All those champs would be cripples.
Man, locks like that look scary, but I'm sure it can be practiced well if the persons training start from a humble / healthy beginning, as to not get right into it. But it sure looks scary af, as a white belt rolling with other (some) white belts, I know some just try to force through things and simply get tired. I can imagine trying to force through one of those would end up being bad for business.
Thanks Ramsey. Can I ask where u got those Wrestling shoes in vid while wrestling “Knife murderer guy”?? They look like they don’t have much or any grip.
I broke many toes years ago in Wrestling, Bjj & Muay Thai-even had big toe detached from foot(took long time to heal) so I want something to keep my toes intact but limited friction on bottom
As for where I got them: imported from Russia via taobao.
@@RamseyDewey Thank you 🙏 so much, you’re an absolute superstar⭐️. Ps. If you ever open School in Melbourne Australia, I’m your first student.
For some reason, just watching the leg positioning of the heel hook causes sympathetic pains in my knees.
when your limb has been dominated. modern heel hooks are much more powerful and efficient than older verisions.
I realized that wearing a knee brace in my gym increased my chances of getting leg locked ten fold.
Yeah, some types of knee braces can exacerbate the problem!
I don't know about most dangerous, but I once broke a friend's rib when they attempted a tomoe nage. I'd never practiced the technique before and didn't land quite how they'd expected.
It's not called a sacrifice throw for nothing I guess 😅
I once bent a kid's collarbone doing tomoes for fun. It was a sad day. Turns out until you're about ten, your bones can bend, instead of breaking.
Hey ramsey
How to perform at peak level with minimum amount of sleep? I can't afford to sleep for 8 hrs, the best I can get these days are 6-7 hrs, and im exhausted and fatigued waking up every morning, some days even with 8hrs of sleep I still wake up tired and i recently heard that Dwayne Johnson only sleeps for 5 -6 hrs a day. How can someone like him do more work than me and still sleeps less than me?
If you don't mind me chipping in, first of all, long term you kinda can't. What you can do is make sure the sleep you get is top tier quality. Make sure there zero noise or lights during it, no blue light or screens right before it, supplement with glycine in chamomile tea 30 minutes before.
The amount of sleep one requires is mostly age and genetics.
At last assistant is not half-size
Practising
Oh, I hate heel hooks. I'm literally scared of them. And yet, I try attacking the legs from time to time, because it's fun. But IF I catch and lock the leg, I go for normal foot lock, never go for the heel hook (I prefer straight foot lock), mainly because I often roll with white belts, who have little knowledge how they work and have no idea when to tap to them. And I have terribly little experience performing them, that's why I don't even wanna go for the heel, since a bad scramble may cause a horrible and unwanted injury. But with colored belts it's a totally different thing. I'm more casual about it, because I know they will not let me, and if I somehow catch them, they know when to tap, before something bad happens.
In terms of Imanari roll, I'm self taught, I do it just for fun, because in my gym, which is kind of Gracie Jiu Jitsu oriented, you know, BJJ for self defence and MMA, but not sport oriented. By sport oriented, I mean, butt scooting, attacking the legs, world's famous Craig "Always 2nd" Jones stuff. But I believe someday he's gonna tell me my Imanari roll sucks and finally show me how to do it correctly.
Tl'dr - heel hooks are not dangerous, but lack of knowledge when to tap to them is.
You were probably thinking of a word such as indication or warning. 👍 Lol
A rule I tell people who are not well versed in the dark arts is any time they have your knee line controlled and get two hands on your foot, tap. If you do not know what controlling the knee line is you are not ready to do anything but drill.
I actually have an equipment question - since you're a taller guy with probably a larger foot which wrestling or boxing shoe brands would you recommend?
Asics makes the best wrestling shoes I’ve used by far. I’ve gone through dozens of different boxing shoes over the years- mostly Chinese brands you may not have heard of. For me, with boxing shoes, how quick they are to lace up matters as much as how functional they are to wear. And there are a bunch of different types of boxing shoes too. Do you want ankle support? Do you want a flat sole or a bent sole that pushes you on the balls of your feet? Do you want laces with a hundred eyelets that takes 20 minutes to put on? Do you want Velcro straps for quick on and off? Do you prefer a thicker sole or a thinner sole?
@@RamseyDewey Thanks for the reply. I didn't realize that boxing shoes had so many variables. Most I've found on my locally were high top or low cut and that is it.
As far as wrestling shoes go, I've recently had to return a pair of Asics due to them being way too tight. Could be just that model though even though I ordered the wide version.
What is the difference between jiujitsu , submission wrestling ( or sambo, for that case) , in this technic ? Seems none
The uniform. The rules of competition. Cultural training tendencies. The differences are subtle.
Ok serious question. Once i hurt my knee 2 year ago and it still hurt going up stairs.
Is there a way to un screw it?
Chiropractor says it is not that bad
But he is not feeling it.
That depends on the nature of the injury. But generally speaking, when you strength your leg muscles, your knees will be better off.
For me, I favored my knee after injuring it and developed a bad muscle imbalance (atrophied hamstring) that led to tendinitis. My physical therapist made me pull myself around her office on an office chair with my bad leg, and then I slowly built up to leg curls and single leg deadlifts. In addition to that I did a lot of stretching using my gi belt as a yoga strap
Heel hooks in a gi....the scandal !
If you're Don Frye the answer is NEVER!
But might have a little something to do with his pain killer addiction later in life.
Never
Never, tapping is for chicken.
I am a bit shocked that you did this demonstration in a gi
Why? We recorded it right after a BJJ class. It’s what we were wearing. Do you want me to wear my kurtka next time?
Just kidding, coach :)
I've trained or visited gyms though where they trained primarily gi BJJ, IBJJF rules and heel hooks where seen as almost evil.
I really felt like I joined the dark side when we did them them for the first time at my new (primarily no gi bjj) gym
Great way to forget your partner s name !!!!
Why would you ignore 50% of the human body? 😂
Purple belt teaching😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Ahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Hahaha. Kkkkkkkkkkk… 哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈! 555555555555!So funny! I didn’t know belts could teach. All this time I thought they were inanimate clothing accessories.
@@RamseyDewey Should wear your white belt then. If it does not matter that someone ranked you in bjj.
@@tra1in1 this guy is a regular comedian! He won’t stop telling jokes! Mwahahahahahaha!!!
If you want to learn leg locks sambo is way better than bjj .
Not really, heelhooks aren’t legal in Sambo. John Danaher created a system of straight, cross, and reverse ashi that pretty much everyone is just now catching up on. Dean Lister used leg locks when no one else did, Palhares was chaining attacks best in mma, but Danaher’s the only one to put the pieces together.
This technique is not allowed under many mma rules due to the fact that most of the people who are heel hooked do not feel (compliance) pain until it is pretty much much too late. You'll alway see someone heel hooked tries to roll out of it only to be submitted and rolling in pain, unable to walk.
All professional MMA fights (both unified and global MMA rules) allow heel hooks and all other submission techniques. MMA has always been a no holds barred sport.
@@RamseyDewey forgot to say amateur. In Nebraska you are not even allowed to knee or elbow downed opponent. In either case I stand corrected. Something new always learned.