Porsche/Audi mid engine Transaxle options overview- V8/turbo
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Porsche 914 Engine Swap Transmission Options
Porsche 901 Transmission data - californiamotorsports.net/pag...
Porsche 915 Transmission data - californiamotorsports.net/pag...
Porsche 930 Transmission data - www.gboxweb.com/930specs.html
Multiple Transmission Data - grassrootsmotorsports.com/for...
1.8t Auto to Manual conversion - www.audizine.com/forum/showth...
RA4 Clutch kit- www.ecstuning.com/b-ecs-parts...
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The comparison of the different available transmissions is very much appreciated. Moving the shifter is a very good idea. If you want a taste of the 'perfect' shifter position, find a pre-1973 MGB to drive. That shift knob becomes an organic part of your hand in just a few minutes, all because of its perfect positioning.
This has to be one of the best videos describing mid engine tranny options ive seen. Thanks! Couple questions for ya...
1) how has the 012 held up for you since you made this video?
2) do you know how it compares to the 01x?
3) would you pick another version if you could go back and do it again?
Thanks, youre a stud!
So much good information in this video!
I been searching for months for some information like this 😃😃 new sub 🙌🏽💯👍🏽
Very nice documentation.
Amazing video.been trying to decide which transaxle to use. This video made it easier.keep it up
Thank you I needed this.
Love ur vids man much appreciated
Great information!
Liked and subscribed!
Realy Cool stuff 👌🏁
I can see the 944 transaxle in the Volvo 300 series, even a 1932 Ford or T-Bucket.
Thanks for the good info. I have an Audi A4 box and a Passat 5 speed w/1.8t AEB. I will be doing something similar with the Boxster shifter as well.
I think you failed to mention the G50 transaxle in this video. They came in the 87-later 911’s. I owned both a 84 and 85 with the 915 transaxle.
I honestly prefer the 915 transaxle over the G50, but if I was running the type 4 I would go with a 901 with a dogleg 1st gear.
Thanks for the videos Andrew. I have been enjoying watching them as I build my 914. I am planning to swap in a VW 2.0 turbo (06h engine from a 2009 Jetta Wolfsburg). Do these same transaxlea bolt up directly or can you point me in the right direction to find that information? I appreciate any pointers.
I am building a 65 VW baja. I want an automatic and a stock FI engine. I am considering an Audi drivetrain. This video gave me some ideas. A 914 is after all just a street buggy.
I like what you are doing. I like the concept of “torque onset”. I’m no real engineer, but I think that if you do the math, the units would work out to power... power Is work/time, or nm/s. Units for work are same as torque. Someone in high school physics please fact check me there...
Been running the long gear 012 in my boxster at 400wtq for 2 years now, still havnt really launched it though lol
Great source of information for my vw beetle mid engine 1.8 turbo stroker I'm doing this spring 👍👍👍
Sounds like a great project! What crank are you using for the stroker?
I assume you've seen my 1.8t engine build video.
ua-cam.com/video/ECViyxq7y0w/v-deo.html
@@budgetoutlaws9978 1.8t out of audi tt 225h with ECS stroker kit 2.0 with ported head and custom camshafts, fabricated tin intake manifold and custom exhaust for turbo, mid engine in 1970 vw beetle
That's gonna be fun! What turbo?
@@budgetoutlaws9978 my son is handling all the turbo and electronics, I do know it will be using a Cobb port and I'm pretty sure he's going to use Johnson tuning, he's a huge Subaru guy and has a sti wrx with around 850 hp at the wheels, I'm 57 and he will be 20 on the 5th, and thanks for turning me on to the video, it's very informative
Very cool! Let me know when you get it all done! Which trani did you decide to go with?
Be sure to check out the V8 conversion video
ua-cam.com/video/VBOJEQUybXw/v-deo.html
Or the Audi turbo video introduction!
ua-cam.com/video/YelnK9T6hGw/v-deo.html
Dude your video just opened up a world of possibilities for my proyect. Look, I'm making a single seater rally car with mid engine from scratch.
The idea is basically the result of a Formula car having a baby with a baja buggy.
Now, I would like to use an automatic or DSG transaxle and an LS engine for this, but I fear breaking the gearbox or simply being unable to have it running independently from the rest of the vehicle. Chassis, suspension, brakes, etc. All of that is no problem, my issue here is the transaxle with a 360hp to 425hp v8 engine attatched to it and working in stand alone mode.
How do I make it happen? If you have any resources or give me a general direction to walk it would be amazing. I'm not gonna spend the moneh needed for a c8 corvette transaxle from tremec cuz that is insane money for me.
Hey man thanks for the videos I’ve had two 914’s since I was 15 years old. I’ve always wanted to swap the drivetrain to something more drivable. Could you tell me should I go buy a donor audi or just find the parts? If a whole car what year and model? Any info would be very appreciated thanks
I've been buying the 01E Diesel Audi boxes used from UK for around $300 plus shipping (all in $500) They are by far? the strongest stock trans I've seen outside the 930 box I used for years. Next step is trying the new 991 7sp. upside down... The Audi diesel box has extremely favorable gearing for actual cruising.
Where do you find those here ?
@@RTLEE1you cant
In my Project Audacious a audi-v8 powered mid-engine corvair I'm using a 944S transaxle. However, you did not look at all the automatics which can be shifted manually and can handle more torque and are easy to find. I have a 914 and will probably put in a subaru H6 and use the tribecca transmission.
Automatic transmissions are scum!
could you use this transmission in a vw beetle?
Great video, looking to build a 917 kit. I'll probably get a inverted 930.
That sounds like a blast! What engine?
Ls3 with a 930 lsd trans, air conditioning, and the purple and green "psychedelic" livery. Other than that just how it comes. But going to build a trunk as I plan on dailying it like I do my cobra kit.
@@budgetoutlaws9978 I figure I can be under my 65k budget for it. Just waiting for the economy to bounce back for sure to make my move. Till then I still love the cobra. Great super cheap daily/show/racecar that gets 24 mpg.
Sounds killer! LS3 is a great engine! Friend has one with ITBs and made 518hp. Our white LS6 914 with the 930 trans is supposed to be 500+ but it seems like it's closer to about 400. We'll fix that later this year with some turbos ;)
@@budgetoutlaws9978 cant wait subbed
Great job with your videos I'm really enjoying them.
I debated about which transmission to use also, and decided to go with the same one as you. You did miss one transmission option that I ruled out and that's the VW Fox our Brazilian longitudinal friend(90 torques max : ). I also built my own linkage and just guesstimated it into existence, I only just replaced it with the proper Boxster linkage and cable bracket the other day. I too ran my shifter box up high as it felt like I was always struggling to reach the old 901 shifter. I think that the more modern transmission makes these cars so much of a better driving experience. I have the V6 transmission in mine with the 3.73 gear set i think, what is the 4 cylinder one like to drive? I was wanting to pick one up as a spare but would really only want the one that suits our cars the best.
The newest temptation that I'm trying to resist is going to a VR6 turbo with an adaptor plate as i used to drive a VR6 Corrado and miss the motor. The great fuel economy of the 1.8t so far is keeping this urge in check. There's a guy in my town with a VR6 turbo mid engined Karman Ghia so maybe I can just go for a ride in his to see if the effort would be worth it.
Glad to see another 1.8t conversion! There are so few of us!
I'll possibly switch to the Boxster trans linkage in the future but for now this works ok.
Regarding the v6 vs the 4cyl trans there are a couple different ones but I found the v6 one I had was really really long in the tooth. Boost response and overall response was much worse but man did it freight train... 2nd gear was 80+ and third was 130+... The 4 cyl trans was much quicker ratio and 2nd was closer to 65 and third was 110. It honestly felt quicker with the long ratio box but the short ratio box was great for autox and general boost response.
How big of a turbo did you put on your 1.8t?
@@budgetoutlaws9978 I ended up with a gt 28 rs .71 trim, I picked up the motor off of a friend who couldn't complete his 1.8t syncro swap in a scirocco due to health issues. He went with the .71 trim because he was scared of breaking the AWD syncro, but I find that it takes a lot of revs to get into boost. I've had the motor in the car and running since 2014 but I haven't legally insured it and driven it on a daily basis. I have a weird tick that happens when the car goes into open loop and I need to try and figure that out + paint it before I can commit to driving it regularly. The car doesn't throw any codes so I'm going to try and change my plugs and give it some 94 octane to see if that can fix my ticking issue. Right now with the covid situation I'm finding that I have a lot more time to work on it so I hope to finally get some of these issues worked out to properly enjoy this car. I do feel that with the V6 transmission that the car is very long legged, I did drive this motor before when it was a small turbo in the scirocco prior to the big turbo swap and it was a beast compared to what it's like in my teener I can only hope that when I finally get to romp on it that it'll be worth all of my efforts. I know that the new big thing in the 1.8t world is now the gt25 660 so maybe thats a possibility down the road.
@@normanpower973 I've never heard of a tick issue going into open loop.. which ECU are you running? 7.5?
The gt2871 is a pretty good sized turbo. I had a GT28Rs or 2560 and loved that turbo a LOT. I'm currently on a Comp Turbo but it's basically a billet GT3076. So just one step up from yours. Youll probably like a close ratio box with that turbo.
I personally have been considering the G25-550 or maybe even the 660...If this channel ever takes off Its one of those things I would definitely do.
Audi 016 is very well know in GT40 forums, the linkage could be little difficult.
Andrew? Why not utilize the stock Boxster 5speed "monkey motion" linkage? Was it in the way of something else?
Great vid, but you didn't even touch on all the interesting transverse options. FWD-style engine+trans swaps are more powerful and affordable than ever.
What's your opinions on 02m awd 6 speed?
Love this build. I would love to put an Audi 2.8 in my 914. I have 2 Audi B5 a wagon with 2.8 and a sedan with a 1.8, both 5 speed, both Quattro. I gotta say I love the 2.8 v6
I very much considered a 2.8. Extremely reliable motor with a great powerband and an excellent sound!
@@budgetoutlaws9978 as you well know, the 1.8 has power potential way beyond the 2.8 though.
Fun channel, thsnks for the entertainment!
So I've gotten a new job, married and had a baby since I was last planning a project. Doing so again and ended up back here with a different question. Any idea on the ability to flip differentials on VAG transaxles for rear engine use? Been trying to figure this out but there appears to be little info and its mostly conflicting. Some say some cases have the room to do so while others don't. Looking at something to mate a 2.7T to in the back of a G series 911. Theres the Renn 27 guy but they just make adapters for the OEM porsche trans. I figure being able to use and audi 012 or even the boxster S is gonna be cheaper than hunting down or refurbishing anything oem from an aircooled porsche.
I wouldn’t. The old Porsche transmissions could be flipped but it wasn’t a real good option IMHO. I think a 911 trans is a much better solution in this case. I’d save up for that and avoid a lot of haste. How much power do you want to make? Also check starter location before committing to a transmission.
love the video, im contemplating an audi a4 with the 2.0 turbo 4 cylinder and 6 speed fwd trans. whats your solution for the half shafts to fit? Or did I miss it in another video? thanks!!
I'm using a 5 speed box currently still. I would make adapters for the half shafts with shorter shafts or find stub axles that fit the correct shaft.
.
Why the 2.0? It's a more complicated/expensive and less robust engine. Plus it's DI.
What are you putting it in?
@@budgetoutlaws9978 I had come across a great donor car on copart, though ive been outbid so the audi idea is out, the 6 speed trans would have been nice though. I have a 914 with minimal rust Ive torn down so Im looking for something more fun than the 79 hp 1.7!! I did just locate a vw passat at a local junkyard with a manual trans so ill grab that and the associated components since finding a wrecked donor car with a manual is a little difficult. theyre out there but non are close to me.
I was also thinking about a TDI to be different but a petrol trans gearing would be rather short for a diesel car.
The TDI has been done. It's a bit complicated like the normal 1.8t. you could run the diesel box out of Europe but it's expensive.
I rather like the idea of a cheap A6 4.2 and a V6 5 speed box. 300hp, killer sound, and cheap cheap. Probably could get the mechanical bits for about 3500 all in then fab everything. ECU could be stock.
I have that one on my short list of 914 projects.
@@budgetoutlaws9978 its funny you say that, I have a 2003 RS6 that im watching close to me,,,,I might have to pay close attention to that auction.
Any thoughts on Subaru as an option?.love the 914 and the info!
Subaru transmission or subaru conversion? I know a lot for subaru swap guys and they love them! Especially the 6 conversion. Simple, plenty of power, and amazing sound. As far as the transmissions go they are a hit or a miss for strength. I don't know enough about them to make a reccomendation, suffice it to say the 6 speeds are generally much stronger.
Subarugears are doing auto conversions now, so the 4-6 speed autos are now candidates. Eliminating the centre diff is as simple as welding it. The drive to the rear axel is then easily plated off. Very strong gearboxes.
Manual WRX transmissions are possible too. I'm using WRX 6 speed with a spool to lock out the rear drive. Should handle 350ft-lb without issue, and if I were to eliminate the pinion thrust and support bearings and install an interference fit bush it would handle more.
For the 6 speed Boxster trans you said the 06-08 are the solid ones but wrote the code for 00-04 (G86.2) did you mean G87.2 (which is that 06-08 period)
Correct, Im sure I mixed up a couple other things as well :)
The amount of torque a trans can handle is directly linked to the weight of the car or load.
Exactly! I believe I touched on this in the video.
🔥🔥🔥🔥 I need your info
Looking to upgrade my 914 V8 Renegade from a 901 to 915? or "beef up the 901. Where do I start with the process?
Renegade offers(or did) a service for building up the 901 which includes a billet intermediate plate.
But. For the money that your going to spend on a 915 or a built 901 I would suggest looking into the 01E options from Europe (there are a couple builders in the states here that will sell them fully ready) advancedautomotion.com/shop/index.php/cPath/194_52_143
Or stepping all the way up to a Boxster 6 speed. Problem with that and the V8 is the trans is very close ratio, similar to a 901, so you don't get the benefit of wider ratios.
You'll need to look to Kennedy Engineering Products for the adapter,
Hey mate! Thoughts on adding a transfer case between these to add in AWD?
Between the engine and trans? No I have not. I have certainly thought about different drivetrain setups that would allow a mid engine awd.... some floating in my head but none are cheap...
I can't see how a typical transfer case would work here. Thoughts?
@@budgetoutlaws9978 sorry, MB on the wording!
Meant behind the transmission. I think from a packaging standpoint you'd almost bold the rear of the case directly to the rear dif and run a real long drive shaft to the front. Plan is to relocate the 13b in an RX8 from the front to the rear passenger area. I'd like to keep it naturally aspirated if possible, but that's a different discussion all together
My biggest issue right now is finding a transfer case that can be inverted and still send most/all the power to the rear.
for example the nissan r32/infinity transfer cases are great, but are only designed to give up to 50% to the front axle. If I invest it, that means I can only ever send as much as 50% to the rears.
I'm having issues tracking down a transfer case that can transfer as much as more than 50% either way.
it seems subaru cases can do up to 80/20 to 20/80, but finding numbers is rough and AFAIK that locks me into a full subaru transmission
Got it, that makes sense. I think it would work for your application and you could do it with a standard all-wheel drive transaxle just run it out the rear output shaft. One of the problems with this setup is that it's extremely long so you might have the transfer case sticking out past your bumper.
What engine and how much power are you looking to make?
It might be possible to use one of the front wheel drive based all-wheel drive setups such as the Honda or some of the Volkswagen / Audis. That would give you some better power distribution as well as keep things a bit more compact
@@budgetoutlaws9978 plan is to use the 13b renesis rotary engine out of the rx8- it's relatively low torque (163 from factory, does more like 200 when tuned and upgraded-the plan) but can rev to 10k+ and make 300+ HP on that same tune, and once stripped down of what isnt need for the track, comes in at ~210 lbs full block naturally aspirated.
If I change out the housing for Rx7 13b housings, most guys make more like 250+ ft-lbs and 500+ HP, still in that same weight range and naturally aspirated with a 1.3L displacement.
If I understand correctly, I would take the transaxle from the honda/audi etc. ? then put it in the back and invert it to have the rear have the general bias and run the AWD shaft to the front to a normal AWD LSD?
As for transmission, what did you have in mind? some sort of relocation setup?
So do those g87.2 Boxster/cayman trans fit a 1.8t naturally?
Yes, they bolt on.
@budget outlaw what axels did you us or how did meake axels work? We are stuck at this point in our project.
It depends on how much power your making but I’m using VW bus axles with adapters on the outboard side and Boxster 100mm flanges on the inboard side. Supposedly good for 500hp.
The white car is using 930 axles which are way way up there for strength.
@@budgetoutlaws9978 did you make the adapters?
@@chrisbartley8818 no they are technically Rennegade Hybrid adapters and axles, they just happened to fit perfect for my need as I didn’t need custom length axles or anything.
O1E Petrol V6
01X Diesel V6
I'm researching ideas for building my own car. The plan all along was mid-engine (behind the driver) but I'm looking for a lot more horsepower. Min 400HP, 400 ft-lbs. I don't like transversely mounted engines because they are difficult to work on and frankly, none of them put out that kind of power. I was considering a mid-engine transmission, like Porsche, Lambo, etc. but was concerned about the cost. I was planning to use an entire stock set-up and the idea of going to a Porsche/Audi dealership for parts was NOT appealing. I was getting pretty close to just throwing in the towel and changing the design to a mid-engine (in front of the driver) design using a Mustang GT drivetrain.
After seeing this, it looks like an Audi transmission might work for me (with an adapter plate to perhaps the Mustang engine , so not all stock anymore), except of the ones you showed that could handle over 500 ft-lbs of torque were rare or expensive. Are there more you know of that might work for higher torque levels and sub $3k? Is it ok to use a transmission meant for AWD in just two wheel drive? I've seen people do it (B is for Build) but I don't know if this is recommended long term. And can it handle the same power in two wheel drive mode? I'd appreciate any input. Cool channel. I never knew Audi front wheel drive cars had engines that were mounted longitudinally. I guess it make sense if the car was offered in both front and AWD.
So to be honest 400tq is not that high, There are a LOT of honda guys that are running 1000hp on the drag strip in an awd setup But they are front engine based. That being said it transfers most of the power to the front. They have a transfer case that sends the power to the rear as well and I suspect with some work you could modify it to shoot the power forward.
The Audi TT and VW Golf R both run an awd transverse setup and they are plenty strong to handle a decent amount of power. On a plus note, they have DSG options that could be used if you really want to get crazy.
What engine are we talking here?
@@budgetoutlaws9978 Hey, thanks for the response. I was going to buy a wrecked 2018 Mustang GT so the gen 3 Coyote Engine. That's 460 HP and 420 ft-lbs. I was also considering a whipple supercharger because if something is worth doing, it's worth OVERdoing. They claim 600 HP, but I don't know how much torque that adds. Because I would like to keep some level of reliability (Ford?) Breaking a transmission may come into that decision making process. I'm still on the fence about the supercharger or at least I'd want to keep the boost low.
I used the info on this video and looked into the Porsche G86/20 transmission but eliminated it because I MUST have an LSD. I hate open diffs and it just started to look a bit sketchy (cost and availability). The Audi 01E is starting to look like my best choice here unless you have something else in your pocket.
It looks like the GT40 guys have a lot of information on this and don't recommend the AWD version of these transmissions.
I think it's funny that you don't think 400 tq isn't that much. I think it's more than all 3 of my current cars combined. LOL.
FYI, this would be a street car, not a race car.
@@budgetoutlaws9978 Also, you never talked about the close ratio and wide ratio transmissions. Which do you prefer?
The 01E is a very stout trans even in the AWD setup (S4's make Tons of power) and used on many race/drag cars. Problem is a short ratio gearbox typically doesnt match the long power curve of the v8 engines. For a high powered wide powerband engine in a light car on the street a wide ratio is nice because it gives you a freight train like feeling, vs a close ratio feels great but your shifting SO often.
That being said, you dont have much options there.
I might consider for you going the Audi/Audi option. The 4.2 is a really great engine and the "KISS" rule is always welcome in fabrication. Plenty of headroom with a power adder.
Sorry, I got confused on this one mixing up two comments that were almost exactly alike... that came across at the exact same time...
Your looking for mid engine (Other guy was mid engine awd....). I would 100% go 01E Diesel box from europe for a v8 for the street not in a racing application. IM sure you've found this site. but you can find these boxes from Ebay pretty cheap, all the way down to $600.
advancedautomotion.com/shop/index.php/cPath/194_52_143
I would lean towards long ratio for the street. You generally have a lot more room for pulls and as mentioned the freight train feeling is pretty nice. It'll help with traction as well and set you up for when you want to setup up in power later.
I also would still suggest looking at the 4.2. They can be had for very cheap all the way up to the RS4 bucks for a pretty wild engine. You could also look at the 5.2 v10 if you want to get rowdy and have the space. They can be had for cheap money.
Good luck!
Are 01E boxes really $4000? I can get them here in the uk for £85-£100 and not rare here
They used to be. They’ve come down substantially in price. There are rebuilders in the states that have them rebuilt with specific gear sets for 3-4k depending.
Now a days they are more common in the states and there are people shipping them over for about $800. A very good option now for sure.
You missed the Audi 01X
Curious if you ever considered the 01X FWD 6 speed from the mid-2000's A4. If you did, what made you pass on it?
Actually yes, the 6 speeds from the 07 A4 are what I'm considering in the future. No one has used them yet and there are some issues for making it work.
I don't think they are much stronger if any, just more gearing.
@@budgetoutlaws9978 I'm building a mid-engine tube chassis '73 Beetle and am using an 01X from a '05 A4 2.0t mated to the 07K VW 5 cylinder (w/turbo). Planning on keeping it around the 350wtq that the stock bottom end is happy with long term. Hence my curiosity if you'd considered one.
Only real downside I can see is the lack of a LSD. Though I'm not sure if that's really the case as Quaife make one for the 5 speed 01X in the Boxster.
Your right there isn't an option for the early 5spd LSD either. You have to quadruple your budget to go for the Boxster 6 speed to have that available.
Personality I'm considering welding the diff on one of my many spare 5 speeds ($75 transmissions are nice....)
Your build is going to be a lot of fun!! It's going to be a rocket!!!
What’s the difference between the 01E and the 01X? I’m currently looking at drivetrain options for my build. . . So much choice!
What's this about you taking a grinder to the crank.....with an angle grinder?!?!?
:) The automatic crank has an additional hump that needs to be shaved off. It just has to be ground down enough to allow for the bearing to sit in it. It was easier than expected, and the rotating assembly was balanced so no worries about that.
@@budgetoutlaws9978 Ah - I was questioning your sanity for a second. Just removing a nub, got it.
It's more like a 1/4" high ring than a nub... I question my sanity pretty regularly. Most of the time I think I'm OK :)
Another butcher of fine automobiles