Why Public Displays of the 10 Commandments are Unbiblical
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- Texas Lawmakers are pushing to put the Ten Commandments in every classroom. Skye sat down with Old Testament scholar, Carmen Imes to discuss why that might be a misunderstanding of what the 10 Commandments are for.
Why? Because it is so much easier than doing the hard work of actually being the church and teaching Christ followers how to truly be followers.
Amen!
The primary problem is that there are whole swaths of Christians who think there are only 10 commandments. Plus "don't be gay." And whatever else is politically expedient.
Taking care of the poor is also a commandment that seems to always be missing. Censorship only applies to individuals. Not public displays.
Excellent! I have felt this for so long, but did not know how to express it Biblically. Thank you so much!
unconstitutional
Jesus summed it all up in two commandments: love God, love one another (your neighbor). Nobody's fighting to put that on a wall!
@Robert Berger “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 7:12, NIV)
I would also consider making the ten commandments as an idol.
How so?
When you get religion involved in government, you also get government involved in religion
The constitutional argument is further strained because the way the commandments are numbered will show favor to a religious tradition. Calvin, Luther, the Catholic Church, and Jewish tradition all have a different numbering system; one can tell at a glance whether the person who made the poster favors Calvin, Luther, Catholics or Jews. -- and those who know the 10 commandments, by number, because they were taught in Sunday school will know if they are one of the out groups.
Patrick (above), no doubt a self-proclaimed loving, faithful Christian, is condemning ALL Catholics & ALL Jews in his post. He doesn't even bother to state he prays they seek salvation nor does he urge anyone _else_ to pray for them.
@@patrickc3419 Do you pray for them?
@@NSOcarth Ok -- the solution of not numbering the ten commandments does not make the fact that I know something about your religious background by asking: "What is the 6th commandment.... example where this is relevant in pop culture: MASH episode "Strange Bedfellows" has the commanding officer and the chaplain talking about a personal incident -- and the Chaplain mentions that a lot of people have broken the 6th commandment in Korea...
As he his catholic, (and what makes sense from the context), the chaplain means there have been many cases of adultery... though *IF* he were Presbyterian, well... there's a lot of killing going on in a war zone too.
---
Not numbering the commandments would be an interesting solution, but I've not seen that done. I usually see nice bold Roman Numerals.
Great discussion. Love God, Love your neighbor.
Getting really tired of my state challenging federal laws with my tax dollar!🤬
Last time I checked it was called both freedom of religion and separation of church and state.
About time from these idiot politicians to focus on real problems like border and school safety instead of this political party game!
I guess it’s time to vote out every serving Senator and House member wasting our money on this CRAP!
Texas voters killed a bill just like this 6 years ago!
Uvalde strong!
Excellent dialogue and insights .
This is a great conversation.... and aside from the violation of the 1st ammendment - I have started wondering why the Beattitudes are not being requested to be displyaed versus the 10 commandments.... laws versus Godly thinking, relationships and behaviour. It seems to me that this push for dsiplaying the 10 Commandments is coming from a place of fear not reverence...
I found Carmen's argument coherent. I agree with her. Not only is it unconstitutional, but I agree that the purpose of the commandments is misused and targeted outside of those who worship him. I went to school with those of other faiths and this would not be received well or serve the purpose intended by the legislators. I especially related to the remark from Isaiah that it doesn't seem likely those imposing this law, actually live by it. The comment about adultery is also an important point.
The Ten Commandments were given to the Israelites, not the entire world. If people didn't want to live by God's rules they could leave. If people wanted to sojourn with the Israelites they were to follow the rules.
Jesus instructed people to live God's way when he met them but only enforced those laws vociferously when they violated them in the temple grounds.
Not everywhere is holy. Not everyone is expected to live righteously.
How can we be the salt, the light, the difference in our culture if we force culture to look like us? We can lead by example, not control. Trying to manipulate people to obedience shows a lack of faith in God's message.
Amen! ❤❤❤
@@NSOcarth sorry, I'm not sure I understand your point. If you could elaborate on your meaning I would be happy to consider your thoughts and respond.
Excellent discussion! Loved it! Had always thought this and you gave me the points I needed.
So, I waited to the end to post this, and I have some thoughts. Take them or leave them for what they're worth.
I agree that it is problematic for states to require displays of specific religious statements to the exclusion of others. What i think should be discussed is protecting the rights of teachers to display statements religious beliefs, especially those they personally hold.
I would also agree that the shamanistic approach of if we do x God has to do y is a problem on multiple levels.
However...
The historic Christian teaching on the ten commandments has always understood them as applying to both those within and without the Church. Even the Protestant Reformers understood a three-fold use of the Law.
1. The law acts as a boundry in order to understand how to live in peace with my neighbor.
2. The law acts as a mirror, showing me the sinfulness that I am guilty of and my need for a Savior.
3. The Law acts as a guide as to how I should love God and my neighbor.
There is also the understanding that the truthfulness of God's law is not contingent on the belief and approval of man. They are true, regardless of the statements of man. No, the Ten Commandments are not the same as Natural Law, but Natural Law is in agreement with the revealed Commandments of God. So when the prophets testify to God's condemnation of their actions, they may not be expressly connected to the Ten Commandments, but you can draw immediate correallation from breaking the Natural Law to the Ten Commandments. Basic human decency is not something altogether "other" to the commands of God. He is Creator of Heaven and Earth, and there is no basic human decency without Him, whether they acknowledge Him or not.
No laws respecting the establishment of religion.
Which is a problem since the intent of the first amendment was to prevent the federal congress from interfering with the religious practices of the various states, some of which had official churches (“establishment”) and the current trend, which finished by the early 19th century, was to remove them (“disestablishment”).
Antidisestablishmentarianism is a joke now, but in the 18th century it was deadly serious business and the states did not want the federal government deciding (mostly to avoid a national state church like they’d had under King George III, head of church and state).
Extremely important conversation and topic. Christian leaders have become like (The teachers of the law) at the time of Jesus. They want people to practice things they, themselves don’t practice. Here is how Jesus described them Matthew 23
Pharisees
The ones who really push this idea are generally the ones who think being republican is the same as being Christian. It's the same ones who believe in Christian nationalism. It's the same ones who believe they are forgiven through faith in Jesus' sacrifice and that the teachings of Jesus in how we are to be to one another are deeds and therefore inconsequential to their faith and salvation.
Skye, my kids went to a Lutheran school, where the kids had to learn the 10 Commandments in 1st grade. Explaining adultery to 6 year olds was fun. The teacher didn't explain it to the kids: they just had to memorize the verses.
I love how you folks at the Holy Post are so practical in your approach to sharing Christ to the world, to everyone.
such a great discussion
Thanks. Another thoughtful conversation .
In my kids school, they posted the Golden Rule
Even Jesus wasn’t keen on the 10 Commandments. He came to bring a new covenant.
This is the conversation I've been longing to hear.
Jefferson was not a Christian. He wrote a version of the gospels absent the deity of Jesus.
Given the raping and the slavery he’s… a complex figure to use as a moral compass.
@@Justanotherconsumer All of our heroes are flawed. Jefferson doesn’t have to be moral or virtuous to be the brilliant author of much of our democratic system. He definitely didn’t write the constitution with the intention of making this a Christian country or even based on Christian values. His compass was the product of the enlightenment.
No work to be saved does not mean no work to be done. Fruitless vines are cut off. The far right loves to claim that following the law is just "trying to earn salvation" because they are fruitless vines. If you've already been saved, act like it. Pay it forward. Serve your fellow people.
The hypocrisy is great! 💔
So all of our children’s schools can teach Greek mythology.. and more.. teaching them about all of the other gods around the world in past times and current times..
On top of this,
They teach Evolution and all of these other believes.. they also teach unnatural desires, which I will not name.
But once it comes to The God Jehovah, then many suddenly decide to speak up.
So we have to allow our children to learn all of this worldly ways, and be forced to allow them to participate in activities for such worldly teachings and be okay with it.. but once it comes to our believes, this becomes intolerable!?
In addition,
The 10 commandments do not belong to Christianity alone.
The main world religions teach them too or similar.
These are the most basic moral laws, by which to live by.
It’s very sad to see these videos😢
Why is it sad? No man is saved by keeping the Law. Trying to do so makes one acursed (Galatians 3) so it might be leading some astray even. A Christian's purpose is to glorify God the Father by lifting up the Son. We get saved by grace through faith- NOT obeying commandments. Where is that being made clear?? We can't force the ways of of God on people...they need new hearts and Holy Spirit intervention to truly become better citizens.
The world is becoming more wicked because it's been prophesied to happen! God is still in control! We're not here to remodel our society - we are to ready ourselves, (if we're Believers) not the world, for His return.
Does posting the Ten Commandments - in King James English - help to lead school children to the New Birth offered by Christ?? Set alone without further Bible teaching, probably not. Christ in us is our hope of glory not following the Ten Commandments, Will that be made clear in school classrooms??
Colossians 1:27 (ESV)
To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
If the Texas Legislature is so committed to posting the Ten Commandments in schools, I suggest they set an example by having posted on each membets desk and in each of their offices just to remind them that they are also to obey them. Furthermore, the Shema should also be posted, as should Jesus' commandment to love one's neighbour as oneself. I doubt they would do this as they are merely playing to their base. They and their base also need to remins themselves that no one can fulfill the Law, and that the ourpose of the Law was to convict people of their own sin, not to condemn others. I am so tired of heretical and hypocritical politicians posing as Christians just to win votes. I am also tired of people falling for the act when the hypocrisy is so clear.
Whooo yall preach'n good!!! 👞
🤔 I saw this was a short video… Did anyone else get 5 advertisements? That’s roughly an ad every 6 minutes. I was washing dishes while listening, so I couldn’t hit the skip button with wet hands. It was very frustrating.
Opinions vary.
Ironically, the Ten Commandments have become an idol. "Thou shalt not kill" without contextualization will be very problematic in Texas.
So, which enumeration of the commandments is to be posted by law? Anyone picking that fight?
@Robert Berger Your argumentation misses my point. It's not merely humor. There are three distinct enumerations of the Ten Commandments. The choice has implications in religious identity as well as in the very purpose of them. You argue they are natural law. Indeed some of them are so. But if we follow the discussion of this video and understand the complete list as a covenant with God, and if we consider the original Jewish enumeration with "I am" as the first commandment, then we fully encounter the constitutional problem as well as the spiritual one. If the existence of God is not presumed, then any citation of the Ten is out of context and frankly, pointless.
So the area that many people miss, is that those who are not religious do not see all of the commandments as laws. Example, thou shall not murder, steal are laws. Thou shall have no other Gods before me, covet, lie, honor, these, many people do not see as their ways or laws. As a Christian, I believe them all, but not all see them that way. Hopefully you understand my point.
Skye: " for those of you who don't know your measurements." What??!!
Religion, in general, seems so ridiculous. I posit this as a person who was religious for about 15 years.
something something log and splinter
🤣🤣🤣 Behave yourself RedMouse!😅🤭
These are the people that think the “name in vain” commandment is about Carlin’s seven dirty words. Theology is just a tool of social control for them.
It’s a dog, marking territory, notihng more.
Carlin very coherently boiled it down to one commandments.
They just want to use the word of God for their own power. It will only continue to shine a light on the fact that religion is just a tool to subjugation. God is in you - every one of us. Look into your own heart for the truth - Yeshua
Brilliant discussion! Two rational people who don't believe what I believe.
Maybe edit the title to say “government mandated” instead given the context
I learned this several years ago when a huge problem of posting them in the
community Court House and as a Historical Document.
But... A great Christian Baptist Sunday School teacher made us read Gal. 3.... then asked us... If we are so into putting up the 10 commandments and putting up a fight... Then we are saying that this is the way to becomming a Christian..
NOT TRUE AND WRONG MESSAGE
Consider, please, applying the mystics' viewpoint (that Love is the Holy Spirit, and the Name, Word, Commandment, and Law of God) to scripture.
Two examples:
- "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain." becomes not only a commandment,
but also a promise that one will not employ the Holy Name of God without result, as in "We
loved him because he first loved us."
- Amos 8:11-13 acquires a meaning not generally heard..
Does servings the true God make God choose side's? Yes He Does. Either with Him or you scatter the fold. Does Truth offend or shame you? But at the end of the day the 10 commandments shouldn't be on the wall but on your heart.
And must be in King James English…so totally useful…😒
Ooh. I love showing the Israelites, basically refugees, crossing the Red Sea in Texas classrooms. Guessing that won’t happen.
The way that I think about the Decalogue is here you have thousands of people who have been in slavery for centuries, they are so random, have little idea how to make a society. The Ten Commandments were sort of the basics of how to create a society.
And had been under the oppressive rule of the Pharaohs for so long they needed to be re-educated as to God's expectations as they had lived under Pharaoh's for so long.
There shall be one standard for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the Lord you God - Lev. 24:22
The Sermon on the Mount would be better (on private or church property) Jesus said those words while bringing in the New Covenant- a better one
(see Hebrews)
Can you guys handle your ad choices on UA-cam at all? So far I've gotten an ad for scantily clad game chicks and a erotica fantasy book ap.
Bleh
The idea of separation of church and state has always been twisted by the haters of God. The reason why this is in place is so that the U.S. will not impose a state regulated church - for example the government should never state that we should bow before the pope as the only form of an acceptable Christian church. It should give each believer the liberty to worship God according to their conscience BUT at the same time under the obvious tenants of scripture. It's also interesting that the worshippers of baal who pose as Christians have no issues with the blood sacrifice of abortion and abominations like drag queen story hour. The fight is within the church where demonic principalities have taken hold of people like those who host this podcast.
Congratulations on the longest post...and the one that sounds most like a Klan rally. I agree, when I think of Phil and Skye, the first thing that comes to mind is control by demonic principalities...nothing scarier than Bible story vegetables and Star Wars nerds...thanks for sharing what needed to be said...
What are decalogue posters and monuments about? They are the religious right being provincial--this is OUR turf. "This is the Christian dominion." This is not to lead kids to Christianity, it just says if you're not a Christian you're an outsider. I think you guys missed that in your discussion. It is very much tribalism and school colors.
No, they are not. Praying in public is unbiblical, upholding the 10 commandments however are different
Definitely better than putting a pride flag in the classrooms lol. It will not do any harm to put Gods word and law in schools.
Ya when someone has to build up self qualifying then you what they're trying to convince you of lacks validity
Well first of all when someone is called an expert on biblical meaning exe the qualification is via mankind and not by God and someone who doesn't have the light of the holy spirit distorts the truth
Look in your wallet and look at your change everyone says and God we trust! Do not trust anybody that's against God
You're saying you want morality without Christ because Jesus wrote the ten commandments and later he said until heaven and earth pass not yot or tittle shall pass from the law til all be fulfilled