This was a good conversation. A major thought I came away with is, contrasting being the image vs carrying the name. We are made in his image and we are supposed to rule in his name. The image isn’t something you lose, it’s the form you are made in. But through our lives we can carry his name or rule in our own name. I’ve never had the right language for it but now it makes sense. Made in the image. Carry his name or rule on our own name. That also gives me thoughts regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The choice to rule in his name as his image according to his wisdom or to make our own image and a name for ourselves, according to ourselves. I still have to unpack and test my thoughts but thanks so much for this conversation! Gave me new categories to think in!
Wow wow wow! I never thought I was trying to conform to middle aged white male who is married with kids and successful in his career! I'm going to allow God to break that image down and teach me how I am his image.
24:40 - 25:10 This sounds to me like basic early Christian teaching on theosis, coming into alignment with the love of God. However, my *opinion* would be that this is not just a possibility but a certainty because Jesus has reconciled all to himself in his death. All die, and therefore all will be raised. Trampling down death by death. Death has lost its sting and is mercy. Judgment and Mercy are one in God. It IS mercy to be re-aligned with the love of God, what else could it be?
Just started this, but imo, one cannot understand "image of God" without understanding theosis and Christology and the nature of the God-Man relation seen in Jesus Christ. All understanding is more than mere intellectual "understanding" of concepts and abstractions. It's "knowing as you are known" as St. Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 8. Relational knowledge (there isn't any other kind), which is kinda J.Harris's point about ontology > epistemology. Epistemology is more about gaming or potential. “Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.” ― Rainer Maria Rilke Essentially having vs. being. Being Christ is what is required, not possessing him (as if that were possible). Ultimately it's about control. And now to circle back...the "image of God" is about self-emptying. "Let it be to me according to your word..." and "...not my will but your will". A loss of the false self (the deliberating, controlling, coloniing will) for the true self (Christ in me). You could have on Jordan Daniel Wood and talk about his book "The Whole Mystery of Christ" which is a great but very technical, academic recent work on all this. Also, hey Prestion. Sup?
21:00 - 21:20 re "the image of God can't be diminished or destroyed" amen. "There is in all visible things an invisible fecundity, a dimmed light, a meek namelessness, a hidden whole-ness. This mysterious Unity and Integrity is Wisdom,the Mother of all, Natura naturans. There is in all things an inexhaustible sweetness and purity, a silence that is a fount of action and joy. It rises up in word-less gentleness and flows out to me from the unseen roots of all created being, welcoming me tenderly, saluting me with indescribable humility. This is at once my own being, my own nature, and the Gift of my Creator's Thought and Art within me, speaking as Hagia Sophia, speaking as my sister, Wisdom." The first stanza of Hagia Sophia by Thomas Merton
Couldn't one apply ANY metric to "image of God"ness? For example: holiness having the "right ideas Participating in the approved liturgical patterns any identity marker, and definitional and bounded way to see and comprehend a person (which I would say is ultimately impossible) because an "icon of God" would be representation that embodiese that which it symbolizes, which would include....infinite "potential" expressions. Freedom is meaningless without restraint. Infinity is meaningless without finitude. This is what iconcography and christology is all about.
Dr Imes says she owes a lot to Dr Middleton. He however views man created in the image of God and evolution as compatible. I wonder what Dr Imes 's view on this is.
Genesis 1 is ELOHIM (Lucifer and the fallen angels). They made this realm. They made man in their image. (tares) Man is an idol, a trap to hunt angels. Genesis 2:7 the Lord God forms His representative in their system. (wheat) One Gospel: Gospel (GOOD ANGEL) of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
@@aletheia8054 Psalm 97:9 For thou, YHWH, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all ELOHIM (gods). Genesis 1 is ELOHIM (Lucifer and the fallen angels). They made man in their image. Man is an idol, a trap to hunt angels. Here is your admonition: John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, WE SEE; therefore your sin remaineth. What sin remaineth? YOUR SIN of leaving heaven for Satan's flesh party. REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
@@qwerty-so6ml Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in *HIS OWN IMMAGE* in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Nothing about Lucifer
@@aletheia8054 What did Jesus say? Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. So, who sows the tares? The wicked one.
I was surprised by the comment that the only things Carmen can do that her husband can't (with their kids) are biological things--giving birth and breastfeeding. Is there really no difference between men and women other than the biological?
Thank you, Carmen and Preston🌹🌹🌹🌹
This was a good conversation. A major thought I came away with is, contrasting being the image vs carrying the name.
We are made in his image and we are supposed to rule in his name. The image isn’t something you lose, it’s the form you are made in. But through our lives we can carry his name or rule in our own name.
I’ve never had the right language for it but now it makes sense. Made in the image. Carry his name or rule on our own name. That also gives me thoughts regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The choice to rule in his name as his image according to his wisdom or to make our own image and a name for ourselves, according to ourselves.
I still have to unpack and test my thoughts but thanks so much for this conversation! Gave me new categories to think in!
Wow wow wow! I never thought I was trying to conform to middle aged white male who is married with kids and successful in his career! I'm going to allow God to break that image down and teach me how I am his image.
24:40 - 25:10 This sounds to me like basic early Christian teaching on theosis, coming into alignment with the love of God.
However, my *opinion* would be that this is not just a possibility but a certainty because Jesus has reconciled all to himself in his death. All die, and therefore all will be raised. Trampling down death by death. Death has lost its sting and is mercy. Judgment and Mercy are one in God. It IS mercy to be re-aligned with the love of God, what else could it be?
Just started this, but imo, one cannot understand "image of God" without understanding theosis and Christology and the nature of the God-Man relation seen in Jesus Christ.
All understanding is more than mere intellectual "understanding" of concepts and abstractions. It's "knowing as you are known" as St. Paul puts it in 1 Corinthians 8. Relational knowledge (there isn't any other kind), which is kinda J.Harris's point about ontology > epistemology. Epistemology is more about gaming or potential.
“Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves, like locked rooms and like books that are now written in a very foreign tongue. Do not now seek the answers, which cannot be given you because you would not be able to live them. And the point is, to live everything. Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer.”
― Rainer Maria Rilke
Essentially having vs. being. Being Christ is what is required, not possessing him (as if that were possible). Ultimately it's about control.
And now to circle back...the "image of God" is about self-emptying. "Let it be to me according to your word..." and "...not my will but your will". A loss of the false self (the deliberating, controlling, coloniing will) for the true self (Christ in me).
You could have on Jordan Daniel Wood and talk about his book "The Whole Mystery of Christ" which is a great but very technical, academic recent work on all this.
Also, hey Prestion. Sup?
21:00 - 21:20 re "the image of God can't be diminished or destroyed" amen.
"There is in all visible things an invisible fecundity, a dimmed light, a meek namelessness, a hidden whole-ness. This mysterious Unity and Integrity is Wisdom,the Mother of all, Natura naturans. There is in all things an inexhaustible sweetness and purity, a silence that is a fount of action and joy. It rises up in word-less gentleness and flows out to me from the unseen roots of all created being, welcoming me tenderly, saluting me with indescribable humility. This is at once my own being, my own nature, and the Gift of my Creator's Thought and Art within me, speaking as Hagia Sophia, speaking as my sister, Wisdom."
The first stanza of Hagia Sophia by Thomas Merton
17:48 ❤ YES!
Couldn't one apply ANY metric to "image of God"ness?
For example:
holiness
having the "right ideas
Participating in the approved liturgical patterns
any identity marker, and definitional and bounded way to see and comprehend a person (which I would say is ultimately impossible) because an "icon of God" would be representation that embodiese that which it symbolizes, which would include....infinite "potential" expressions.
Freedom is meaningless without restraint. Infinity is meaningless without finitude.
This is what iconcography and christology is all about.
Dr Imes says she owes a lot to Dr Middleton. He however views man created in the image of God and evolution as compatible. I wonder what Dr Imes 's view on this is.
Now connect this to Union with Christ, Divinization, or Theosis. The future of Protestantism should focus more on ontology before epistemology.
Hey...funny seeing you here. Do we know each other from PSprinks?
Ugh what a bore..
@@WhiteStoneName more like PVK
The Bible says let US Make man in OUR image.
The image of father, son, spirit
That would equal body mind and soul .
Genesis 1 is ELOHIM (Lucifer and the fallen angels).
They made this realm.
They made man in their image. (tares)
Man is an idol, a trap to hunt angels.
Genesis 2:7 the Lord God forms His representative in their system. (wheat)
One Gospel:
Gospel (GOOD ANGEL) of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
@@qwerty-so6ml “our image” OUR
father son spirit
@@aletheia8054
Psalm 97:9 For thou, YHWH, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all ELOHIM (gods).
Genesis 1 is ELOHIM (Lucifer and the fallen angels).
They made man in their image.
Man is an idol, a trap to hunt angels.
Here is your admonition:
John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, WE SEE; therefore your sin remaineth.
What sin remaineth? YOUR SIN of leaving heaven for Satan's flesh party.
REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
@@qwerty-so6ml
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in *HIS OWN IMMAGE* in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Nothing about Lucifer
@@aletheia8054
What did Jesus say?
Matthew 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
So, who sows the tares? The wicked one.
I was surprised by the comment that the only things Carmen can do that her husband can't (with their kids) are biological things--giving birth and breastfeeding. Is there really no difference between men and women other than the biological?