Heads up, everyone! A small segment of this video is out-of-date! Upon deploying a PROPER patch to fix the "Simultaneous Input Assistance" bug, you can now plink a non-Light Attack button and still perform a throw tech! For example, you can input HK~LP+LK and still tech a throw. However, the rest of the video still remains true (motion input lockouts, delayed plink lockouts, etc.).
Very helpful. At this point I just gave up...I'd let a player throw me 3 to 4 times in a row because I didn't understand what the hell was happening. For weaker opponents it fine because they'd keep trying to throw me allowing me to read them, but for strong opponents they'd just mix in throws with their combos resulting in me being thrown 6- 7 times in one match. Thank you so much.
A lot of the time it is best to take a throw, you are turning a 50/50 situation where you either get thrown or eat a massive combo, so it is better to take the throw. Though of course if you are near dead you have to tech. A lot of people in street fighter never tech for this reason. Throw does barely any damage and just resets the situation so you have another try and getting out. You see them shimmy, just take the throw.
maaan, the war against throw break option selects by the devs since SF5 has caused too many casualties besides that, flawless technical video with perfect presentation that respects the viewer's time, nice
I know Capcom is trying their best to fix anything bugs in this game like the glitch throw tech, lily condor dive bug, rashid ysaar glitch, JP OD embrace animation and most importantly Gief's burnout. All have been patched and fixed but Capcom should really look into this, the game's input reader is starting to turn from silly to goofy maybe even bonkers. On a side note, some other complaints I see on twitter is region lock, being able to select opponents based on whether they're using modern or classic and being able to select to fight against wired or wifi only players. However I don't grasp the problem of Region lock, I play against people from India and Argentina just fine.
Really fire editing and video! Your Street Fighter research has been really amazing. There are so many little things to be aware of in this game that can mess up your actions, it's really nice seeing it get explained in such a nice format.
That means SO much coming from you. Thank you for your kind words! I am a huge fan of your work! I could say the same for your work, a million times over.
@@KaptainKlein nah, man. First of all, the game's input detection has been known to be finicky across multiple people. Input for moves have been very loose and in the worst way. Secondly, this is no intended option select measure since it still doesn't register things like jabs if the grab is plinked as a free mash/grab option select. This is exclusively grabs being misread as inputs due to motions when the initial hotfix was for the simultaneous BUTTON input registering issue, not motions. Also I hope you realize how bad it is that if you have a tatsu motion, now you can no longer block low then tech or block cross up and tech unless you just completely avoid pressing 2 on the stick.
Great video honestly, we need more short form stuff like this that gets to the point quickly and clearly. On the topic, I think all the tech lock-outs are a temporary fix until Capcom can fix the tech exploit. We of course don't know how it'll shake out once they actually fix the issue but we do know that the way things are now was just to get the exploit out of the game as fast as possible.
I think this might happen because special moves have priority over grabs? Like, your input will only lead to a throw tech if that input would otherwise perform a grab, not a hazanshu or whatever
I get endlessly told to "get good", but no other fighting game I've played has had me doing so many accidental DPs when I enter a quartercircle. The input detection is just waaaaay too generous.
@@Jacksaur_ do a half circle instead, it happens because you go for a fireball after walking which is a dp. if you do a half circle instead it deletes the forward input not matter how fast you do it. but yeah it's a very generous input reader that it fucks you over sometimes lol
Interesting how this stuff works... maybe that was done on purpose to prevent potential option selects? Like the game doesn't want you to DP and throw at the same time, countering strike/throw or something.
that’s good thinking but I can’t think of any way this game’s engine would allow for such an OS that wouldn’t just have the DP come out every time. who knows tho
reminds me of 3rd strike, if you input a parry you're not allowed to tech for a while. Sounds easy to prevent, but any input going from neutral to forward or down counts for this
Does this care about whether your character has a move assigned to the special input you may have inputted? Or will any motion input cause grief on any character?
Great video! Do you know if motion input lockouts were at thing before this patch? I feel like I have had so many scenarios like that before this patch as well
Special move lockouts were a thing in the previous patch. I discovered it while testing with Zangief, who couldn't input PP during a throw tech cuz that counts as Lariat.
@@GelatinLabs thank you, you have saved my sanity. I tend to move my pad a lot while defending (old habits die hard) and you saved me a lot of sanity right now
What an absolutely stupid bug. As Ken, I've whiffed moves and immediately prepared to get thrown by tapping the buttons, and it seems like I've been thrown every single time. You mean to tell me I could have escaped if I hadn't moved my Dpad?
Does the motion input rule take into account inputs your character doesn't have? For example, if a character like JP or Guile does a DP motion into a throw does it lock you out of the tech?
Lol they actually pronounced it right in early footage and then changed it back so I guess this is just her name now. Ngl I liked when they pronounced it like that but I guess it doesn’t really mayyer
damn so i was not crazy... so many weird stuff happening in this game, im currently struggling with wake up windows to do a reversal properly, and i have played thousands of hours of fighting games, especially the Street Fighter serie..
Kind of frustrating they didn't go more lenient on throw teching considering how good throws are in this game. They made sure parry has plenty of downsides and punish opportunities, but the risk-reward ratio throws is so off.
I only see an issue with not being able to go LK+LP+something else, I think you SHOULNDT be able to tech if you just pressed an attack and happened to be within the grab
Edit: I'm a dummy and forgot to account for the 5 frame start up on throws, dont read this- Just a quick correction on the throw tech window, it's 13 frames not 8. You can lab this out by doing something that's 0 on block and leaves you in throw range, like cammy's heavy punch target combo canceled into a divekick, and having the bot do reversal throw with the block reversal settings, which allows you to add a specific amount delayed frames, as well as how many times it needs to block before inputting the throw (in this case the block count is three). You'll notice the bot will consistently be able to tech the throw with up to 13 frames of delay but not 14.
@alexisc.7887 oh DUH, totally forgot to account for the start up. Gonna make an edit rn so I'm not misinforming anybody. This also explains why I've found getting a clean delay tech against spefic throw loops harder than other strike throw situations lol thanks for clearing that up
Of course it works, you can just go play the game to test it. What doesn't work is when you do a motion input, for example a QCF if your character has a QCF move.
Great upload and thanks for bringing this to light. I want to make sure I understand correctly. So, before the bug fix, you could actually be holding a direction and still tech but now you can no longer do this?
You can still hold a direction, otherwise delay tech wouldn't be possible. What you can't do is buffer a motion input that applies to your character, so a QCF if your character has a QCF move, and tech the throw at the same time. Which I would still totally consider a bug, but it doesn't come into play most of the time. As for the bug fix, it applies to the first case described, when you enter the input for a normal that isn't a light at the same time as the tech.
Brother this game is fucking my asshole raw and bleeding with its janky ass inputs, literally any other SF game has not given me a modicum of the issues that 6 gives me in every single match. Forward walking Fireballs coming out as DP, DI and Throw Techs just straight up not working, random ass supers coming out when doing special cancels, punish combo strings not linking, this game is fucking COOKED I have been playing since Super Turbo, 3S, and Alpha 2 were in arcades man, I am not some new head who doesn't know how to play I have been in this shit for decades and it frustrates me to no end.
@@noXeFonicecharacters have neutral and back throw, gief has those and forward throw downback throw downforward throw and down throw. He has 6 unique throws
man i've had a better time throw teching in 3rd strike than this game. Everything in this game just feels jank while looking sick af. It feels terrible to do nearly any input in this game but I hope over time it will be fixed.
sorry to burst your bubble but this is SF games standard, you have to be in neutral before you tech, so you cant be holding block while teching... Its been like this forever.
If the average human reaction time is 250 milliseconds and a throw gives you 8 frames to react, then that means you only have ~133 ms to react. That's kind of crazy.
Kinda, sort. Street fighter has very few wakeup pressure option that aren't in the unreactable range. You're meant to "gamble" on which option you think you'll be hit by and defend against that preemptively. This chun was trying to defend against the overhead at the same time as the throw (as defensive maneuvers tend to cover multiple options, but not all), intending to break the throw beyond when the overhead would have hit. But.. well, we see what happens if you don't perfectly go from down block to standing block (eg: down back to back).
It's not crazy because you aren't reacting to it, You are anticipating it. There's also the delay throw tech which allows you to basically defend vs a strike and a throw at the same time on wake up. You block for 7 frames and then push throw so that it comes out on the 8th frame and techs it.
That's because you're not supposed to react to the throw itself. However the wiggle room allows you to slightly delay the throw tech so that if they go for a meaty strike, you can block it, and if they go for meaty throw, you can still tech it. The 8f of leniency also makes it a bit easier to react to someone walking up and throwing you. You react to the walk up but assume they will throw you without actually seeing the throw.
Heads up, everyone! A small segment of this video is out-of-date!
Upon deploying a PROPER patch to fix the "Simultaneous Input Assistance" bug, you can now plink a non-Light Attack button and still perform a throw tech!
For example, you can input HK~LP+LK and still tech a throw.
However, the rest of the video still remains true (motion input lockouts, delayed plink lockouts, etc.).
Gelatin labs - our mental salvation - showing the evidence to let us out of our padded cells when we shouted "I teched that!"
Very helpful. At this point I just gave up...I'd let a player throw me 3 to 4 times in a row because I didn't understand what the hell was happening. For weaker opponents it fine because they'd keep trying to throw me allowing me to read them, but for strong opponents they'd just mix in throws with their combos resulting in me being thrown 6- 7 times in one match.
Thank you so much.
throw loops are broken i wish my main chun had one
Shoto’s and their throw loops scream cheese.
A lot of the time it is best to take a throw, you are turning a 50/50 situation where you either get thrown or eat a massive combo, so it is better to take the throw.
Though of course if you are near dead you have to tech.
A lot of people in street fighter never tech for this reason. Throw does barely any damage and just resets the situation so you have another try and getting out.
You see them shimmy, just take the throw.
@@vanillafella4893 they're fine I'm just that type of player.
@@vanillafella4893 throw loops are about as broken as EX DP imo., but chun REALLY suffers because she doesnt have one
maaan, the war against throw break option selects by the devs since SF5 has caused too many casualties
besides that, flawless technical video with perfect presentation that respects the viewer's time, nice
I couldn't have done this without you. I am eternally grateful. Never forget that!
I know Capcom is trying their best to fix anything bugs in this game like the glitch throw tech, lily condor dive bug, rashid ysaar glitch, JP OD embrace animation and most importantly Gief's burnout. All have been patched and fixed but Capcom should really look into this, the game's input reader is starting to turn from silly to goofy maybe even bonkers. On a side note, some other complaints I see on twitter is region lock, being able to select opponents based on whether they're using modern or classic and being able to select to fight against wired or wifi only players. However I don't grasp the problem of Region lock, I play against people from India and Argentina just fine.
Really fire editing and video! Your Street Fighter research has been really amazing. There are so many little things to be aware of in this game that can mess up your actions, it's really nice seeing it get explained in such a nice format.
That means SO much coming from you. Thank you for your kind words!
I am a huge fan of your work! I could say the same for your work, a million times over.
This video had no business being so well edited, good job
Great information in a concise, well thought out format! Thank you
Great work man looking forward to more
Great way to present this info! The editing reminds me of Melee Moments and I’m glad to see this kind of content making it to the larger FGC
man, this game's input reading is really bloody janky
This isn't jank, it's an intentional decision to remove this as an option select situation.
@@KaptainKlein nah, man. First of all, the game's input detection has been known to be finicky across multiple people. Input for moves have been very loose and in the worst way. Secondly, this is no intended option select measure since it still doesn't register things like jabs if the grab is plinked as a free mash/grab option select. This is exclusively grabs being misread as inputs due to motions when the initial hotfix was for the simultaneous BUTTON input registering issue, not motions.
Also I hope you realize how bad it is that if you have a tatsu motion, now you can no longer block low then tech or block cross up and tech unless you just completely avoid pressing 2 on the stick.
great video! also, love the transistor ost in the background
Wow. This is really good to know, thanks man, very informative and well edited video.
Comprehensive and concise. Thank you.
Absolutely love the transistor music ❤
When option selects work against us.
Thank you so much for this information.
Great video honestly, we need more short form stuff like this that gets to the point quickly and clearly. On the topic, I think all the tech lock-outs are a temporary fix until Capcom can fix the tech exploit. We of course don't know how it'll shake out once they actually fix the issue but we do know that the way things are now was just to get the exploit out of the game as fast as possible.
This has been happening to me all day and now I understand why, thank you
Nice vid, I hope capcom changes that part about motion inputs, and maybe making the throwbreak window slightly bigger like 10 frames but maybe not
Based Transistor enjoyer, love the vid
Wow. Thanks. I really DIDN'T tech that throw...TONS of times!
YOUR DOING THE LORD’S WORK THANK YOU !
Thanks for this, no wonder I got thrown multiple times yesterday when I obviously tech-ed. Thought I was going crazy!
Do Drive Impacts get locked out too. Cause it seems Counter DI's could also be affected like how this throw tech thing is too.
I tweeted @ you about this a while back, good to see a video on it. Great content as ever. Game's doing my head in though.
Thanks for the video, I thought I was going insane!
I think this might happen because special moves have priority over grabs? Like, your input will only lead to a throw tech if that input would otherwise perform a grab, not a hazanshu or whatever
honestly, super useful information, thank you
Instant sub on the Transistor ost
The motion input part is weird and not something I’m fond of, but thank you for making me aware of it in the first place.
The input reader in sf6 is just an inconsistent mess
I get endlessly told to "get good", but no other fighting game I've played has had me doing so many accidental DPs when I enter a quartercircle. The input detection is just waaaaay too generous.
@@Jacksaur_ do a half circle instead, it happens because you go for a fireball after walking which is a dp. if you do a half circle instead it deletes the forward input not matter how fast you do it.
but yeah it's a very generous input reader that it fucks you over sometimes lol
real important info, nice lookin out. and transistor ost best
p.s. algo probably hates the video for being sfxt category instead of sf6 lol
Omg Gelatin labs truly godlike
Thanks for this, I was super confused as to why this was happening.
I just realize why I failed tech throwing so much back in SFV.
I remember throw teching being way more forgiving in 5 than in 6
dude.. thanks for this video. Now i know that my raging was not in vain. At least now i know why i won't tech out of throws.
Arigato Gelatin-sama🙏! I know I've been accidentally doing those things so tank a u!
Interesting how this stuff works... maybe that was done on purpose to prevent potential option selects? Like the game doesn't want you to DP and throw at the same time, countering strike/throw or something.
that’s good thinking but I can’t think of any way this game’s engine would allow for such an OS that wouldn’t just have the DP come out every time. who knows tho
I mean, OD Dp beats throw anyway, and shimmy beats both throw and OD DP (with enough distance).
I believe so's✈
Very helpful, I wonder why it still fail sometime, now I know this issues, thx.
Very helpful! Thank you for this!
love the transistor music though
reminds me of 3rd strike, if you input a parry you're not allowed to tech for a while. Sounds easy to prevent, but any input going from neutral to forward or down counts for this
Does this care about whether your character has a move assigned to the special input you may have inputted? Or will any motion input cause grief on any character?
Great video! Do you know if motion input lockouts were at thing before this patch? I feel like I have had so many scenarios like that before this patch as well
Special move lockouts were a thing in the previous patch.
I discovered it while testing with Zangief, who couldn't input PP during a throw tech cuz that counts as Lariat.
@@GelatinLabs thank you, you have saved my sanity. I tend to move my pad a lot while defending (old habits die hard) and you saved me a lot of sanity right now
It has always been like this in street fighter, this isn't some SF6 only thing, you have to be in neutral to tech.
@@Stinkyremy Throw tech OSes existed in past games, you're incorrect
@@--.--.--.--.--.-- I don't think every SF game has needed you to be neutral. Too many to remember.
Oh. Oh this is gonna fuck me up. I haven't been able to play since before this patch but 214 breaking the tech throw will destroy me.
I got habit of holding back trying to tech throws gotta stop doing that lol
Top tier explanation:)))
What an absolutely stupid bug. As Ken, I've whiffed moves and immediately prepared to get thrown by tapping the buttons, and it seems like I've been thrown every single time. You mean to tell me I could have escaped if I hadn't moved my Dpad?
Between this and drive rush eating my wakeup super being in the corner as Lily just got even worse thanks Capcom.
With this information I assure you that I will be teching those
Oh my god thank you!
Thanks to capcom for always showing us the worst way to patch a bug
Does the motion input rule take into account inputs your character doesn't have? For example, if a character like JP or Guile does a DP motion into a throw does it lock you out of the tech?
Great question! It only applies to motion commands you have access to.
So in your example, neither JP or Guile would be locked out.
@@GelatinLabs Thank you!
Honestly, clicking other buttons around the throw tech does make sense to lock you out, but the motions is definitely a bit much.
Thanks alot for the tip. I always got confused to why I didn't tech a throw 😂
Excellent editing!
Rare footage of someone correctly pronouncing, "Chun Li"
(Also, nice video)
"Choon" isn't any more correct than "chunn." In Mandarin (which is what she speaks) it's more like "chwen."
Lol they actually pronounced it right in early footage and then changed it back so I guess this is just her name now. Ngl I liked when they pronounced it like that but I guess it doesn’t really mayyer
@@bwnnn It does kinda sound halfway between the two, I'll give ya that
I asked a friend what the correct pronunciation is a while back and stuck to it every since.
Apparently, I'm still off!
@@bwnnn dang so everything is wrong lol. I wish they’d pronounce it like that I wanna know :(
damn so i was not crazy... so many weird stuff happening in this game, im currently struggling with wake up windows to do a reversal properly, and i have played thousands of hours of fighting games, especially the Street Fighter serie..
so any direction + throw will cause you to not tech? say I hold back and mash throw on wake up. I won't be able to tech?
If you somehow didn't have a motion input of that nature and you input it as such, do you get locked out?
So if I'm playing leverless, can I socd to force neutral input and throw tech to prevent this?
Sometimes I play games where you have to stand up to throw tech, so that's pretty jarring. Wires get crossed for me sometimes.
Kind of frustrating they didn't go more lenient on throw teching considering how good throws are in this game. They made sure parry has plenty of downsides and punish opportunities, but the risk-reward ratio throws is so off.
I only see an issue with not being able to go LK+LP+something else, I think you SHOULNDT be able to tech if you just pressed an attack and happened to be within the grab
10/10, información muy útil y bien explicado. Buen video
Ah so that's why I'm terrible! No wait I'm just terrible.
Great info!
Nice, can you do a video next on why I lost to the scrubby dragon punch mashing modern ken?
Because you are the actual scrub
Edit: I'm a dummy and forgot to account for the 5 frame start up on throws, dont read this- Just a quick correction on the throw tech window, it's 13 frames not 8. You can lab this out by doing something that's 0 on block and leaves you in throw range, like cammy's heavy punch target combo canceled into a divekick, and having the bot do reversal throw with the block reversal settings, which allows you to add a specific amount delayed frames, as well as how many times it needs to block before inputting the throw (in this case the block count is three). You'll notice the bot will consistently be able to tech the throw with up to 13 frames of delay but not 14.
It's 13 frames because throws have 5 frames startup. 5+8 = 13. The throw tech window is still 8 frames
@@alexisc.7887 correct , its 8
It would be better to lab against a meaty throw so you don't deal with throw startup.
@alexisc.7887 oh DUH, totally forgot to account for the start up. Gonna make an edit rn so I'm not misinforming anybody. This also explains why I've found getting a clean delay tech against spefic throw loops harder than other strike throw situations lol thanks for clearing that up
Reminds me a bit of the BBCF TRM system
Damn, this game has such a weird input system. It seems like in their quest for leniency they created this complicated non intuitive system.
Wait…. Did Juri just specifically make fun of Chun Li’s victory pose? Does she do that for everyone on perfect KO’s??
Yes in that she does that taunt to everyone.
That's chun li exclusive because she beat chun lis ass in the movie.
So delay tech doesn't work anymore? (As you would hold back to block). I'm confused
Of course it works, you can just go play the game to test it. What doesn't work is when you do a motion input, for example a QCF if your character has a QCF move.
GELATIN HAS SPOKEN
"SKILL ISSUE"
the holy texts
📖🙏 🧎
Interesting, does pressing forward after a charging count as a motion input?
Very good
Hold on...did u just say....choon-li
Great upload and thanks for bringing this to light. I want to make sure I understand correctly. So, before the bug fix, you could actually be holding a direction and still tech but now you can no longer do this?
You can still hold a direction, otherwise delay tech wouldn't be possible. What you can't do is buffer a motion input that applies to your character, so a QCF if your character has a QCF move, and tech the throw at the same time. Which I would still totally consider a bug, but it doesn't come into play most of the time.
As for the bug fix, it applies to the first case described, when you enter the input for a normal that isn't a light at the same time as the tech.
Right on the money!
I wonder what else is different I cannot for the life of me get my level 3 to come out with blanka anymore online
Useful
Capcom don't want us to succeed 😔
motion lockout ??... was that in sf4 and 5 too ?
i play chun and this is terrible cause crouch blocking to standing gives you her hazanshu input
Brother this game is fucking my asshole raw and bleeding with its janky ass inputs, literally any other SF game has not given me a modicum of the issues that 6 gives me in every single match. Forward walking Fireballs coming out as DP, DI and Throw Techs just straight up not working, random ass supers coming out when doing special cancels, punish combo strings not linking, this game is fucking COOKED
I have been playing since Super Turbo, 3S, and Alpha 2 were in arcades man, I am not some new head who doesn't know how to play I have been in this shit for decades and it frustrates me to no end.
what about gief since he has the 6 different regular throws
Command grabs aren't considered throws
@@noXeFonicecharacters have neutral and back throw, gief has those and forward throw downback throw downforward throw and down throw. He has 6 unique throws
@@LanceForLife Why would his normal throws work any different in regards to the input reader discussion here?
this input interpreter really makes me want to scream
Bro I got pissed yesterday, now I at least know why.. must have qcb into tech, silly me, I guess?
I hate people that do this but i am the 1000th sub :))) anyways I teched that
as if throw loops werent already killing this game.
man i've had a better time throw teching in 3rd strike than this game. Everything in this game just feels jank while looking sick af. It feels terrible to do nearly any input in this game but I hope over time it will be fixed.
I knew something was fishy ! It was starting to get on my nerves !
Why does this damn game have so many big glaring bugs and issues as if nobody play tested before release?
sorry to burst your bubble but this is SF games standard, you have to be in neutral before you tech, so you cant be holding block while teching...
Its been like this forever.
Well that's fuckin bullshit
Capcom gotta fix this input system
God's work
Thumbnail looks like ken us about to kick the shit out of ryu
I knew I wasn't crazy
Still unclear, does this work with any motion input or only the motion input your character can do? And what about Modern Controls?
If the average human reaction time is 250 milliseconds and a throw gives you 8 frames to react, then that means you only have ~133 ms to react. That's kind of crazy.
Kinda, sort. Street fighter has very few wakeup pressure option that aren't in the unreactable range. You're meant to "gamble" on which option you think you'll be hit by and defend against that preemptively. This chun was trying to defend against the overhead at the same time as the throw (as defensive maneuvers tend to cover multiple options, but not all), intending to break the throw beyond when the overhead would have hit. But.. well, we see what happens if you don't perfectly go from down block to standing block (eg: down back to back).
It's not crazy because you aren't reacting to it, You are anticipating it. There's also the delay throw tech which allows you to basically defend vs a strike and a throw at the same time on wake up. You block for 7 frames and then push throw so that it comes out on the 8th frame and techs it.
That's because you're not supposed to react to the throw itself.
However the wiggle room allows you to slightly delay the throw tech so that if they go for a meaty strike, you can block it, and if they go for meaty throw, you can still tech it.
The 8f of leniency also makes it a bit easier to react to someone walking up and throwing you. You react to the walk up but assume they will throw you without actually seeing the throw.
@@ToveriJuri How the hell do you block for precisely 7 frames and then throw? What?
@@neamravenit same timing every time. With little bit of practice you can perform delay throwtech.
Time to abuse throws with this 😭