The Royal Family would know of the Doctor, besides the past encounters he has had with various British monarchs UNIT know all abut him, he was employed as Scientific Advisor in an official capacity by the Ministry of Defence. And the Monarch is the Head of our Armed Services. And our current Monarch Queen Elizabeth the Second is particularly famed for her breadth and depth of knowledge and for her attention to detail. She has also has briefings every week, every year from every UK PM since Winston Churchill (who knew the Doctor well) - in Who terms that would also include Harriet Jones and the Master. It would be far more incredulous to believe the Royal Family would not know of the Doctor than to find it surprising they do, or worse to merely blame it on Moffat upping the Doctor's reputation. More like acknowledging the logic of past stories and interactions. The episode itself explains why she is aware of him through Elizabeth the First and Queen Victoria (as the only two shown in NUWho era) but its explanation enough without any recourse to it being anything to do with the Doctor's wider reputation.
I think Moffat said it best, there are too many ideas here that would be much better as separate stories. The Smilers, Liz the X, and the Space Whale could have been their own adventures but instead their all.... clumsily crammed together and make an ok episode. P.S- Love the Fez!!! I hope you switch hats to fit the appropriate episodes (like the Top Hat, the Stetson, and the deerstalker)
I actually think that Eleventh Hour did such a good job establishing Amy and the Doctor's relationship that I felt they were ready for a story like this. I like it when a very early story really gets across a Doctor's sense of right and wrong, this, the Silurians, Attack of the Cybermen, New Earth (okay maybe not that one as much). Whittaker should have gotten a story like this for her second episode.
This episode contains one of my favourite 11th Doctor moments - his "Nobody human has anything to say to me today!" and his line about having to find a new name because he won't be the Doctor anymore had as much emotional impact as anything and I think sets up a throughline that continues later in terms of why the Doctor calls himself the Doctor. For me, 11 is at his most compelling when gets angry and Smith pulls that off as well as any of the actors who've played the part (McCoy was particular poor at anger, at least to begin with, and although I know this is sacrilege to say but Tom Baker didn't do it that well, either. Tom was magnificent at grumpy and petulant but outright anger never quite worked).
RIP Terrence Dicks. The guy who came up with the concept of Time Lords. Editor/Writer of Classic Who 1968-1974. And he also wrote over 60 novelisations of Classic Who stories under Target Books.
Just wanted to comment on how much I look forward to these reviews, and your commentaries in general. They are always so well thought out and presented in a very appealing style. I don't always agree with your points, but I always find it welcome challenge, in my own mind, to work out exactly why. Your views never seem to come from a place of animus, but always true thoughtfulness, and you express it with a concise style I normally only associate with my favorite author, Issac Asimov. Thanks for all you do on this channel!
For me the doctors reputation doesn’t really bother me, but I just cringe so hard when Moffat started drilling the idea that the doctor say “I’m the doctor” could scare away army’s and civilisations. It’s so cheesy in series six too.
This is actually one of my favorite episodes. I love hearing your opinion especially on episodes that it differs from mine. It really helps to gain a more rounded perspective on things. I really just love the idea of the starwhale and wish there was more fan art of it
As someone else kindly pointed out, the royal family would most assuredly know of the doctor through past encounters and briefings by UNIT itself. Not an outsized reputation situation.
For me this a dark fairy tale in the style of Roald Dahl. Indeed, it's easy to imagine the characters illustrated by Quentin Blake. Essentially, it's a dark, twisted fantasy for children. It's the same feeling of unease you get with films like Return to Oz and The Neverending Story.
I really like this episode. I love the dilemma that they face. Either make a creature suffer for them to survive or let the creature leave but kill millions of people. This also shows the angry side of the 11th Doctor, a preview of what he would show many times throughout his run.
I agree that this show was a little wonky. However, I disagree on two points. The Doctor would never threaten to kick a long term companion of the Tardis. This struck me as only appropriate for a new companion. I also like the repeat of the very old and very wise line on the Doctor. That line brings a tear to my eye every time.
Yeah, it was too early in the run for the Doctor to get that angry at Amy, but I'm glad he did it. The best companions were the ones he got furious with, usually just once. That's why the end of the key scene with Clara bothers me so much.
This is an episode I really loved but is not popular and apparently Moffatt himself wasn't happy with it. Essential in terms of establishing Amy, of course, and gotta love Sofia Okanado (who also voiced the companion in Scream of the Shalka).
I'll say one thing about this episode. The design of the Smilers is freaking awesome. It makes them look legitimately terrifying. Too bad it was wasted on this tonally inconsistent mess. They had so much potential.
I'm overdue to give this one a re-watch, so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details. I like your description of the Smilers as henchmen - they didn't really come across as primary antagonists to me, so I find the comparison apt. I understand your concern about leaning on The Doctor's reputation, but I'm willing to let it slide in this case because it's the UK and he's always been their especial guardian. Just as an aside, I thought Liz 10 was spectacular. ::fans self:: This episode always reminded me of a short story by Ursula K. LeGuin called "The Ones Who Walked Away From Omelas". If you're interested in checking out something with similar beats, I highly recommend it.
I have nostalgia for this episode, but when I rewatched this episode, I realised how rushed it was. Amy presses a button, and then the episode just... ends. Also, I once thought that "The Satan Pit" was called "The Beast Below".
In the episode, they imply that all the other nations have their own ships. How is this possible with only one whale? I think this is why every human we see from this point on (chronologically) is British.
I kind of assumed the other nations that didn't perish in whatever happened to the earth, had their shit together, and had a sustainable ship built in time
*sits down* OK. *clears throat, gets comfy... and squeal* OMG ELEVEN COSTUME SO CUTE!!!! I don't usually do fangirling, but boy that look does it for me so much... I love The Beast Below. It was the episode that got me hooked. In fact, it had so many things going on, I had issues adequating with the pacing for the rest of the season. One of my favorites. And that even though I kind of agree with most of the critique. But yea, I wouldn't call it one of the worst, at all. Just from that season, I think the Dalek's one was too boring, and the Vampires of Venice was too cheesy (if it wasn't Rory's first adventure, I'd find it skipeable).
This did feeling like a rocky landing after a fairly good take off for Smiths run. Can remember being more hopeful than I expected after The Eleventh Hour but this felt like a really bad decision to have this episode follow it up.
From the first time I watched the first two episodes of Matt Smith's era and liked them both, I always had this idea in my head that "The 11th Hour" was like a big hit single and "The Beast Below" was an interesting b-side.
A lot of the plot points you bring up, I agree with, and while I can head canon a lot of Moffat's episodes, the beginning of this one absolutely makes no sense to me. But having said that, I like this episode for it's character moments. For example, the scene when Amy asks him what he's going to do, and he says - What I always do, stay out of trouble..badly, And the scene where he tells her he's the last time lord, and sort of trails off and moves quickly past the subject. And I really loved when the Doctor got angry. The emotional connection hit home for me when he made the suffering of the whale audible, and his line about having to change his name because he wouldn't be the Doctor any more. I saw the Doctor who loves humans see the terrible side of humanity, along with his deep empathy for an innocent creature. This brought him not only anger, but frustration, disappointment, and sorrow. It really had nothing to do with trust in Amy at that moment. At that moment, he didn't see her as Amy, but as a human.
I was surprised that this was the episode that Moffat said he regrets. There are many worse decisions that he made that are worse than this episode (the next episode being one the biggest offenders), however, I just see the Beat Below as a meh episode. It's not bad, but at the same time it's not spectacular, but I don't think it's hurting the show by being there.
This episode has always been a weird one for me. Seemingly one of the few mis steps of series 5 with some very interesting concepts. The smilers seem under used as cool monsters as well as the forgetting the beast. However, the doctors rant doesn't work for the fact that we haven't seen him enough and certainly not with the Army. P.S love the consume
Was anyone else reminded of Professor Quirrell from by the smilers? I mean, they have one face which is good, one face which is bad and one face which is a monster.
I reckon it does make sense for whoever is the sitting monarch in the show to know who the doctor is considering how that there's canonically a fair amount of important top secret government stuff related to him.
Considering how his interaction with Queen Victoria set up a whole organisation to defend the British Empire/world from Alien threat and his marriage (intentional or not) to Elizabeth 1st or saving Elizabeth 2nd and however many million others from a crashing spaceship, I can imagine that most monarchs in British history after those incidents would know about him. If not by facts then by legends and folklore.
Even Moffat himself ranks this episode as one of his worst. That said, I didn't mind it. Definitely not one I skip over, like I do with Fear Her or Love & Monsters.
Watched this last night as I am also rewatching the series. Love Moffat and matt Smith especially. It made me tear up last night, not gonna lie. I get some of your issues but I still go with it.
The doctor is a hypocrite, since he was was enthusiastically eating fish fingers in the episode before. He, just like a lot of humans, picks and chooses which animals are resources and which deserve compassion. In light of this, his rant at Amy was completely unfair. It's odd for someone who has been alive for so long to lack this self awareness. This blind spot and confusion, around this issue, exists in a lot of sci-fi.
This is one of those episodes were you can see the ideas within but don't quite work in the execution, this isn't a bad episode but it's not one which stands out and one I would recommend for people to watch. Although I think that sums up Series 5 in my personal opinion, it's not a bad season but certainly not a great one either. I think this sums up most first seasons for the new Doctor's tend not to be that good. There are some exceptions to this of course.
This episode could've been really goofy in another writers' hands. I do like elements of it but I'd be hard pressed to tell you the plot off the top of my head
I don't know, the companion buyers remorse angle never really bothered me because this wasn't even the first time we've seen it in new who. Back with the 9th Doctor, Adam screwed up on his first adventure and in an arguably much more minor way, resulting in in getting kicked out without any chance at redemption. Also, whatever other problems this episode might have, I just can't hate it because the anger and pain in the Doctor's speach before the climax about needing to find a new name is just delivered so we'll. Eleventh Hour was okay, but this is the episode that really sold me on Smith as the Doctor.
I dont know. Adam unremorselessly steals information from the far future for his own gain. It would be very dangerous to keep him around. Amy broke a rule she didnt know existed because she was overwhelmed by a whole lot of tragic information. The doctors climactic speech was pretty fantastic though
so... in other words, Moffat. I'm sorry this story is peak Moffat for me. 16 good ideas all crammed into a small space with zero ideas about how to end it because he's too worried about fan reaction. When I first saw it I loved it, because so much was going on. Second episodes are well, second episodes. They tend to be shaky because you don't know what you're going to do with the Doctor yet. Sure you have ideas. So you throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. I get it. Only Steve kept doing that. I will always disagree with you on the silly stuff. I like Doctor Who because 'silly one moment, deadly serious the next'. How else really and truly are you going to have what amounts to story-wise as a rouge Sidhe Lord galavanting around the hum realms, consorting with mortals, and not come across as the guy that snaps his fingers and everything is fine? Something you, me and a lot of other fans have complained about happening btw. He does this for the fun of it. Sure he likes helping people, but for him? This is just fun. But Moffat, he wanted to make his mark on the show. Its what he sat out to do. And while there is nothing wrong with that, he took it to mean letting the fans reactions dictate what he did. He was a highly paid fanfic writer. Some good stuff, some bad stuff, but changing what he was focusing on based on fan feel. And anything he heard that didn't work? He dropped. ANd anything he saw that fans liked, he overused.
The only thing with using children is that they can get more work out of younger workers/slaves. But, yeah, they should have touched more on that. Also- THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE RECOGNIZES THAT 11'S FEZ DOESN'T HAVE A TASSEL! The thing with this episode is that I think it works well as the season, the writer/showrunner, the actors, the show all finding its feet. It works really well as a "start of season" finding-its-feet story (not a clunker because it has charm, but a story that has issues all the same). And I think the betrayal works on some levels because Amy and the Doctor had the connection "twelve years ago" and it feels like they've known each other for longer than one adventure and then this. And it works as "I thought you would be another good one, but you chose this". Last thing- it would have been perfect if Liz 10 found the Doctor because of the water trick thinkg "Huh, someone sees this too" THEN still finding out that he's the Doctor and saying "oh, okay, it's you. My family knows all about you". I have mixed feelings about this episode, (I liked it when it first came out- but I was five/six and didn't know what goo versus bad storytelling and plotting was at the time), but I can watch this with barely a feather ruffled. Thanks for this review, you always touch on the biggest issues and favorites of mine. (Great minds think alike?) -A fan
I would have sworn there was a tassle in the Big Bang Fez, but I just looked and nope. I think I was confused by the mop he carried over his shoulder for part of it. I wonder if that was the trade off?
I enjoyed the episode as it was, but the moral messaging bothered me. Are people so bothered by the exploitation of the Star Whale that they have to forget it? From a human-centric position, it's the correct thing to do - at least until you learn that the whale is intelligent, at which point it becomes murkier - so I could see many people choosing yes and not caring. The Doctor's moral indignance, his disgust with humanity, is also unwarranted. Admittedly, he's not human-centric, not being human, but he's generally willing - up to now - to teach and be forgiving of ignorance. I thought the anger was undeserved, and came more from the writers' view of correct morals (which all too often I disagree with) rather than from the Doctor's character.
I disagree with the notion that The Doctor's outrage at Amy didn't work as he has proven in the past that he doesn't always give possible companions a chance on their first adventure when they screw up (Adam Mitchell in the Long Game). I like this episode because it displays The Doctors kindness and arrogance in equal measure
I don't really take issue with Liz X knowing who the Doctor is, but I feel it could have been executed much better. I'd have preferred if she just thought that he was someone who took note of him because he noticed the water thing, then Moffat could have had Liz X recognise the doctor by name when he introduced himself with some kind of surprised remark from Liz X before getting straight back into the action of the episode.
Last time I watched this, I gave it a slightly above-average rating because it's good in parts, but the whole scenario is absurd, really. Maybe Moffat read James Blish's Cities in Flight series and thought he could do something of the sort; but Blish was straight sf, his cities flew because of technology, no whales involved. I agree that connecting the Doctor with the British monarchy is superfluous and would have been better omitted from the whole show, all the way along. With some sympathy for the poor actress, I detest the amateurish attempt to represent Queen Elizabeth I in "The day of the Doctor".
I feel like in a lot of Moffats writting he tries to over explain things because he thinks hes deep and complex. And consider a lot of older people and kids watch the show perhaps the over explaining does serve its purpose. Because theres some quick witted moments I found funny then rewatching with my parents it seemed like nope half of that went over their heads
Gotta say, it bugs me how much of a hypocrite the Doctor is in this episode. He gets seriously pissed off at Amy for making a mistake, but this is only a few episodes after he made a much worse mistake in The Waters of Mars. And he gets extremely judgemental at the Human race, but this is just two episodes after The End of Time, where we learn the Doctor's own people were planning to destroy time itself just to save themselves. Wonder if this is the beginning of Moffat's blatant disregard for the RTD-era.
I know I'm stupendously late to the party here, but I have opinions. Listening to your take on this episode in particular, it strikes me how much the Doctor is a commentary on, and for, the British public. Why bother having the children be abducted when the 'beast' won't eat them? The UK education system/welfare system/electoral elites don't care about kids. The present day Tory govt are very much saying the quiet parts out loud, re the disposability of the 'wrong kind of child,' but those attitudes have been lingering and festering since the Victorian era. Indeed, the episode is visually reminiscent of the Victorian era. The point about the populace being absolved of the guilt of voting for exploitation, via induced ignorance, is a recurring talking point in probably all politics. Lately, in the UK, people who regret voting for Brexit are excusing themselves with the fact 'they didn't know what they were voting for.' Never mind that they could have educated themselves on it. I know the episode pre-dates Brexit: something something history doesn't repeat but it rhymes. There's also the somewhat disgusting habit the British elite have of treating politics and elections as purely a game. They aren't going to be harmed personally by the outcome, so who cares. Better luck next time. I take the threat of Liz being thrown to the beast if she abdicates as being a thinly veiled metaphor for anyone in (British) power being thrown to the beast that is the British media if they make the 'wrong' decision. How many people have the British media killed now? How many have had their lives ruined? Insert montage of car chases, phone hacking, ridiculous head lines, and Piers fucking Morgan taking issue with your existence. And the monarch has to be in there because (a) most Brits are royalists, and (b) Amy approves of an independent Scotland.
The emotion of the Dr's rejection of of Amy rang true for me, because she had angled him into making the type of painful moral decision he hates having to make but knows he can't avoid. That he has to take it upon himself to take actions that may have consequences no one should bare and few would understand. It wasn't about how long they had been together but his internal dilemas. The second telling of "the last of a kind who couldn't hurt children" was completely different to the first: the first made the point given; the second was saying i can and i will make decisions as you do and accept the consequences as you do, with absolute faith in your example and who you are. One spoke or her powers of perception, the other of who she was. It was someone the Dr could be with in an authentically accepted companion partnership.
A very forgettable and boring story that is poorly placed in matts era but contains important themes and a decent moment towards the end. Never been huge on this one.
I thike at the best below aother elpisdr the silmers are good monters mstt smith is geetinv good and i hope jodie faaces the siimers ate show have aothr comeback
The Royal Family would know of the Doctor, besides the past encounters he has had with various British monarchs UNIT know all abut him, he was employed as Scientific Advisor in an official capacity by the Ministry of Defence. And the Monarch is the Head of our Armed Services.
And our current Monarch Queen Elizabeth the Second is particularly famed for her breadth and depth of knowledge and for her attention to detail.
She has also has briefings every week, every year from every UK PM since Winston Churchill (who knew the Doctor well) - in Who terms that would also include Harriet Jones and the Master.
It would be far more incredulous to believe the Royal Family would not know of the Doctor than to find it surprising they do, or worse to merely blame it on Moffat upping the Doctor's reputation. More like acknowledging the logic of past stories and interactions. The episode itself explains why she is aware of him through Elizabeth the First and Queen Victoria (as the only two shown in NUWho era) but its explanation enough without any recourse to it being anything to do with the Doctor's wider reputation.
UNIT is an international organization.
Eventually he (10th Dr) married E.1, sort of, so she should know him, timey-wimelly as such....
Scotland got their own ship. “Way to go Scotland!” - Amy Pond
Well, we get the Star Whale so I guess their ship either doesn't exist or is much slower.
As a Scot i appreciated that.
I think Moffat said it best, there are too many ideas here that would be much better as separate stories. The Smilers, Liz the X, and the Space Whale could have been their own adventures but instead their all.... clumsily crammed together and make an ok episode.
P.S- Love the Fez!!! I hope you switch hats to fit the appropriate episodes (like the Top Hat, the Stetson, and the deerstalker)
I actually think that Eleventh Hour did such a good job establishing Amy and the Doctor's relationship that I felt they were ready for a story like this. I like it when a very early story really gets across a Doctor's sense of right and wrong, this, the Silurians, Attack of the Cybermen, New Earth (okay maybe not that one as much). Whittaker should have gotten a story like this for her second episode.
This episode contains one of my favourite 11th Doctor moments - his "Nobody human has anything to say to me today!" and his line about having to find a new name because he won't be the Doctor anymore had as much emotional impact as anything and I think sets up a throughline that continues later in terms of why the Doctor calls himself the Doctor.
For me, 11 is at his most compelling when gets angry and Smith pulls that off as well as any of the actors who've played the part (McCoy was particular poor at anger, at least to begin with, and although I know this is sacrilege to say but Tom Baker didn't do it that well, either. Tom was magnificent at grumpy and petulant but outright anger never quite worked).
Kinda depends which stories you're referring to for Sylvester and Baker
RIP Terrence Dicks. The guy who came up with the concept of Time Lords. Editor/Writer of Classic Who 1968-1974. And he also wrote over 60 novelisations of Classic Who stories under Target Books.
Just wanted to comment on how much I look forward to these reviews, and your commentaries in general. They are always so well thought out and presented in a very appealing style. I don't always agree with your points, but I always find it welcome challenge, in my own mind, to work out exactly why. Your views never seem to come from a place of animus, but always true thoughtfulness, and you express it with a concise style I normally only associate with my favorite author, Issac Asimov. Thanks for all you do on this channel!
For me the doctors reputation doesn’t really bother me, but I just cringe so hard when Moffat started drilling the idea that the doctor say “I’m the doctor” could scare away army’s and civilisations. It’s so cheesy in series six too.
Jay Stevens That wasn’t exactly new though, Moffat started that idea in the third story he’d ever written for the show, long before he was in charge.
This is actually one of my favorite episodes. I love hearing your opinion especially on episodes that it differs from mine. It really helps to gain a more rounded perspective on things.
I really just love the idea of the starwhale and wish there was more fan art of it
As someone else kindly pointed out, the royal family would most assuredly know of the doctor through past encounters and briefings by UNIT itself. Not an outsized reputation situation.
For me this a dark fairy tale in the style of Roald Dahl. Indeed, it's easy to imagine the characters illustrated by Quentin Blake. Essentially, it's a dark, twisted fantasy for children. It's the same feeling of unease you get with films like Return to Oz and The Neverending Story.
I really like this episode. I love the dilemma that they face. Either make a creature suffer for them to survive or let the creature leave but kill millions of people. This also shows the angry side of the 11th Doctor, a preview of what he would show many times throughout his run.
I agree that this show was a little wonky. However, I disagree on two points. The Doctor would never threaten to kick a long term companion of the Tardis. This struck me as only appropriate for a new companion. I also like the repeat of the very old and very wise line on the Doctor. That line brings a tear to my eye every time.
Yeah, it was too early in the run for the Doctor to get that angry at Amy, but I'm glad he did it. The best companions were the ones he got furious with, usually just once. That's why the end of the key scene with Clara bothers me so much.
I never got why he was so angry, specially about amy keeping stuff from him when he constatly keeps info from others and even flat out lies to people
Which scene with Clara?
The Earth being uninhabitable is from the Fourth Doctor story The Ark in Space.
Or the Ark with the first Doctor
3:13 At first I thought this was set around the time of End of the World from series 2 but apparently it's way before.
Noiiiice Best cosplay you've done so far. Although I like your 13th too
Rip Uncle Terry, 1935-2019 you'll always be a legend!
This is an episode I really loved but is not popular and apparently Moffatt himself wasn't happy with it. Essential in terms of establishing Amy, of course, and gotta love Sofia Okanado (who also voiced the companion in Scream of the Shalka).
This is the dorkiest you've ever looked and I love it
Joshua V. Harding the dorkiest that he has ever dorked
I'll say one thing about this episode. The design of the Smilers is freaking awesome. It makes them look legitimately terrifying.
Too bad it was wasted on this tonally inconsistent mess. They had so much potential.
I'm overdue to give this one a re-watch, so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details. I like your description of the Smilers as henchmen - they didn't really come across as primary antagonists to me, so I find the comparison apt. I understand your concern about leaning on The Doctor's reputation, but I'm willing to let it slide in this case because it's the UK and he's always been their especial guardian. Just as an aside, I thought Liz 10 was spectacular. ::fans self::
This episode always reminded me of a short story by Ursula K. LeGuin called "The Ones Who Walked Away From Omelas". If you're interested in checking out something with similar beats, I highly recommend it.
I have nostalgia for this episode, but when I rewatched this episode, I realised how rushed it was. Amy presses a button, and then the episode just... ends.
Also, I once thought that "The Satan Pit" was called "The Beast Below".
In the episode, they imply that all the other nations have their own ships. How is this possible with only one whale?
I think this is why every human we see from this point on (chronologically) is British.
ULOIRAR tbh England would totally abandon the world if it had a chance to save itself
I kind of assumed the other nations that didn't perish in whatever happened to the earth, had their shit together, and had a sustainable ship built in time
I didn't watch Doctor Who chronologically the first time, so the fact that it's ep2 never bothered me
It happened to me too.
Is it me or does Matt Smith sound like Nathaniel in this video? :p
Just you lol
Nathaniel confirmed to play Fourteenth Doctor. =P
*sits down* OK. *clears throat, gets comfy... and squeal* OMG ELEVEN COSTUME SO CUTE!!!!
I don't usually do fangirling, but boy that look does it for me so much...
I love The Beast Below. It was the episode that got me hooked. In fact, it had so many things going on, I had issues adequating with the pacing for the rest of the season. One of my favorites. And that even though I kind of agree with most of the critique. But yea, I wouldn't call it one of the worst, at all. Just from that season, I think the Dalek's one was too boring, and the Vampires of Venice was too cheesy (if it wasn't Rory's first adventure, I'd find it skipeable).
This did feeling like a rocky landing after a fairly good take off for Smiths run. Can remember being more hopeful than I expected after The Eleventh Hour but this felt like a really bad decision to have this episode follow it up.
Although in my opinion this series picks up after Rory comes on board, so the first few episodes do feel a bit lacking without him there.
poor 🌟Star Whale 🐳... just, wanted to help & they Tortured him..
for the greater good?? :/ go figure..
From the first time I watched the first two episodes of Matt Smith's era and liked them both, I always had this idea in my head that "The 11th Hour" was like a big hit single and "The Beast Below" was an interesting b-side.
These glasses really suit you! Unsure whether they're your prescription but they're honestly a really great look
They’re prescription
A lot of the plot points you bring up, I agree with, and while I can head canon a lot of Moffat's episodes, the beginning of this one absolutely makes no sense to me. But having said that, I like this episode for it's character moments. For example, the scene when Amy asks him what he's going to do, and he says - What I always do, stay out of trouble..badly, And the scene where he tells her he's the last time lord, and sort of trails off and moves quickly past the subject. And I really loved when the Doctor got angry. The emotional connection hit home for me when he made the suffering of the whale audible, and his line about having to change his name because he wouldn't be the Doctor any more. I saw the Doctor who loves humans see the terrible side of humanity, along with his deep empathy for an innocent creature. This brought him not only anger, but frustration, disappointment, and sorrow. It really had nothing to do with trust in Amy at that moment. At that moment, he didn't see her as Amy, but as a human.
The rhyme is my favorite part of this episode. I think it's so sad but sweet.
I'm the bloody Queen, mate.
Basically, I rule.
11 didn't wear those glasses until Amy died. The round glasses go with the darker suit he wore with Clara.
Good point. But I think it's okay.
Yeah. Except I wear glasses all the time so I wasn’t going to be blind until I got to that point in the run.
@@CouncilofGeeks fair enough
I was surprised that this was the episode that Moffat said he regrets. There are many worse decisions that he made that are worse than this episode (the next episode being one the biggest offenders), however, I just see the Beat Below as a meh episode. It's not bad, but at the same time it's not spectacular, but I don't think it's hurting the show by being there.
He no write that episode.
The biggest issue is why didn't Britian make their own spaceship like all the other nations did.
Brexit!!
This episode has always been a weird one for me. Seemingly one of the few mis steps of series 5 with some very interesting concepts. The smilers seem under used as cool monsters as well as the forgetting the beast. However, the doctors rant doesn't work for the fact that we haven't seen him enough and certainly not with the Army.
P.S love the consume
I like to think of a "Starship Texas" out there, causing a nuisance... 😎
Was anyone else reminded of Professor Quirrell from by the smilers? I mean, they have one face which is good, one face which is bad and one face which is a monster.
Absolutely love the glasses!
I reckon it does make sense for whoever is the sitting monarch in the show to know who the doctor is considering how that there's canonically a fair amount of important top secret government stuff related to him.
Considering how his interaction with Queen Victoria set up a whole organisation to defend the British Empire/world from Alien threat and his marriage (intentional or not) to Elizabeth 1st or saving Elizabeth 2nd and however many million others from a crashing spaceship, I can imagine that most monarchs in British history after those incidents would know about him. If not by facts then by legends and folklore.
For people in the comments: like=moffat, comment=Davies. Which one do you prefer?
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Even Moffat himself ranks this episode as one of his worst. That said, I didn't mind it. Definitely not one I skip over, like I do with Fear Her or Love & Monsters.
Watched this last night as I am also rewatching the series. Love Moffat and matt Smith especially. It made me tear up last night, not gonna lie. I get some of your issues but I still go with it.
I actually thought it worked pretty well as an episode, the kidnapped children thing is a bit odd but i seem to remember them being kept as slaves.
The doctor is a hypocrite, since he was was enthusiastically eating fish fingers in the episode before. He, just like a lot of humans, picks and chooses which animals are resources and which deserve compassion. In light of this, his rant at Amy was completely unfair. It's odd for someone who has been alive for so long to lack this self awareness. This blind spot and confusion, around this issue, exists in a lot of sci-fi.
Really love the new look ....sharp
This is one of those episodes were you can see the ideas within but don't quite work in the execution, this isn't a bad episode but it's not one which stands out and one I would recommend for people to watch. Although I think that sums up Series 5 in my personal opinion, it's not a bad season but certainly not a great one either. I think this sums up most first seasons for the new Doctor's tend not to be that good. There are some exceptions to this of course.
I picked up a tweed jacket in a charity shop. Owned a fez once, don't any more.
Going to watch this after I feed the ferals while the rain has let up here in Jacksonville fl.
Plot Holes! Moffat's writing is always full of them
This episode could've been really goofy in another writers' hands. I do like elements of it but I'd be hard pressed to tell you the plot off the top of my head
I don't know, the companion buyers remorse angle never really bothered me because this wasn't even the first time we've seen it in new who. Back with the 9th Doctor, Adam screwed up on his first adventure and in an arguably much more minor way, resulting in in getting kicked out without any chance at redemption.
Also, whatever other problems this episode might have, I just can't hate it because the anger and pain in the Doctor's speach before the climax about needing to find a new name is just delivered so we'll. Eleventh Hour was okay, but this is the episode that really sold me on Smith as the Doctor.
I dont know. Adam unremorselessly steals information from the far future for his own gain. It would be very dangerous to keep him around. Amy broke a rule she didnt know existed because she was overwhelmed by a whole lot of tragic information. The doctors climactic speech was pretty fantastic though
The reason the episode isn't highly regarded is the same reason 'The Twin Dilemma' isn't - because it's following on from a highly superior story.
so... in other words, Moffat.
I'm sorry this story is peak Moffat for me. 16 good ideas all crammed into a small space with zero ideas about how to end it because he's too worried about fan reaction. When I first saw it I loved it, because so much was going on. Second episodes are well, second episodes. They tend to be shaky because you don't know what you're going to do with the Doctor yet. Sure you have ideas. So you throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. I get it. Only Steve kept doing that. I will always disagree with you on the silly stuff. I like Doctor Who because 'silly one moment, deadly serious the next'. How else really and truly are you going to have what amounts to story-wise as a rouge Sidhe Lord galavanting around the hum realms, consorting with mortals, and not come across as the guy that snaps his fingers and everything is fine? Something you, me and a lot of other fans have complained about happening btw. He does this for the fun of it. Sure he likes helping people, but for him? This is just fun.
But Moffat, he wanted to make his mark on the show. Its what he sat out to do. And while there is nothing wrong with that, he took it to mean letting the fans reactions dictate what he did. He was a highly paid fanfic writer. Some good stuff, some bad stuff, but changing what he was focusing on based on fan feel. And anything he heard that didn't work? He dropped. ANd anything he saw that fans liked, he overused.
The only thing with using children is that they can get more work out of younger workers/slaves. But, yeah, they should have touched more on that. Also- THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE RECOGNIZES THAT 11'S FEZ DOESN'T HAVE A TASSEL! The thing with this episode is that I think it works well as the season, the writer/showrunner, the actors, the show all finding its feet. It works really well as a "start of season" finding-its-feet story (not a clunker because it has charm, but a story that has issues all the same). And I think the betrayal works on some levels because Amy and the Doctor had the connection "twelve years ago" and it feels like they've known each other for longer than one adventure and then this. And it works as "I thought you would be another good one, but you chose this". Last thing- it would have been perfect if Liz 10 found the Doctor because of the water trick thinkg "Huh, someone sees this too" THEN still finding out that he's the Doctor and saying "oh, okay, it's you. My family knows all about you". I have mixed feelings about this episode, (I liked it when it first came out- but I was five/six and didn't know what goo versus bad storytelling and plotting was at the time), but I can watch this with barely a feather ruffled. Thanks for this review, you always touch on the biggest issues and favorites of mine. (Great minds think alike?) -A fan
I would have sworn there was a tassle in the Big Bang Fez, but I just looked and nope. I think I was confused by the mop he carried over his shoulder for part of it. I wonder if that was the trade off?
@@maurinet2291 Might be, yeah!
I enjoyed the episode as it was, but the moral messaging bothered me. Are people so bothered by the exploitation of the Star Whale that they have to forget it? From a human-centric position, it's the correct thing to do - at least until you learn that the whale is intelligent, at which point it becomes murkier - so I could see many people choosing yes and not caring.
The Doctor's moral indignance, his disgust with humanity, is also unwarranted. Admittedly, he's not human-centric, not being human, but he's generally willing - up to now - to teach and be forgiving of ignorance. I thought the anger was undeserved, and came more from the writers' view of correct morals (which all too often I disagree with) rather than from the Doctor's character.
I liked this episode but i don't think it should have been the first adventure with Amy after his regeneration
Who'd have thought it, doctor who predicted Brexit in 2010!
Wow, you even got the glasses!
Kai Creech ooooooh the Brain specs 👓
I disagree with the notion that The Doctor's outrage at Amy didn't work as he has proven in the past that he doesn't always give possible companions a chance on their first adventure when they screw up (Adam Mitchell in the Long Game). I like this episode because it displays The Doctors kindness and arrogance in equal measure
Surprised about the fez given how rarely Matt Smith wore it.
I don't really take issue with Liz X knowing who the Doctor is, but I feel it could have been executed much better. I'd have preferred if she just thought that he was someone who took note of him because he noticed the water thing, then Moffat could have had Liz X recognise the doctor by name when he introduced himself with some kind of surprised remark from Liz X before getting straight back into the action of the episode.
Beast below is one of my favorite episodes of Dr Who
Ace is back btw
Will you be wearing the Series 7B costume for the Series 7B episodes review?
I can only afford to have so many outfits. So no.
@@CouncilofGeeks And I think we should pretend that 7B didn't happen anyway.
What did you do with the tassle? And do you have two?
The one I wear here never had a tassel, and I have one with a tassel, you can see it behind me on Hedwig.
Yeah! Bowties are cool and Fezzes are cool! :D
Could be an Ashkari cap (tabush) instead of a fez
Please play some more of that game! I'm really interested in it but I don't want to watch anyone else play and I don't have a computer
Last time I watched this, I gave it a slightly above-average rating because it's good in parts, but the whole scenario is absurd, really. Maybe Moffat read James Blish's Cities in Flight series and thought he could do something of the sort; but Blish was straight sf, his cities flew because of technology, no whales involved. I agree that connecting the Doctor with the British monarchy is superfluous and would have been better omitted from the whole show, all the way along. With some sympathy for the poor actress, I detest the amateurish attempt to represent Queen Elizabeth I in "The day of the Doctor".
Still better that Series 11.
Now THAT's a look! Bow ties are extremely cool!
No, they’re not, never have been, never will be.
Bond. James Bond. See how wrong you are now?
love the new look for obvious reasons. however the way you rocked the tennant gear turned me just a little gay. keep up the great work sir.
I liked The Beast Below but I also usually skip it on the rewatch.
I feel like in a lot of Moffats writting he tries to over explain things because he thinks hes deep and complex. And consider a lot of older people and kids watch the show perhaps the over explaining does serve its purpose. Because theres some quick witted moments I found funny then rewatching with my parents it seemed like nope half of that went over their heads
Gotta say, it bugs me how much of a hypocrite the Doctor is in this episode. He gets seriously pissed off at Amy for making a mistake, but this is only a few episodes after he made a much worse mistake in The Waters of Mars. And he gets extremely judgemental at the Human race, but this is just two episodes after The End of Time, where we learn the Doctor's own people were planning to destroy time itself just to save themselves. Wonder if this is the beginning of Moffat's blatant disregard for the RTD-era.
I know I'm stupendously late to the party here, but I have opinions. Listening to your take on this episode in particular, it strikes me how much the Doctor is a commentary on, and for, the British public. Why bother having the children be abducted when the 'beast' won't eat them? The UK education system/welfare system/electoral elites don't care about kids. The present day Tory govt are very much saying the quiet parts out loud, re the disposability of the 'wrong kind of child,' but those attitudes have been lingering and festering since the Victorian era. Indeed, the episode is visually reminiscent of the Victorian era.
The point about the populace being absolved of the guilt of voting for exploitation, via induced ignorance, is a recurring talking point in probably all politics. Lately, in the UK, people who regret voting for Brexit are excusing themselves with the fact 'they didn't know what they were voting for.' Never mind that they could have educated themselves on it. I know the episode pre-dates Brexit: something something history doesn't repeat but it rhymes. There's also the somewhat disgusting habit the British elite have of treating politics and elections as purely a game. They aren't going to be harmed personally by the outcome, so who cares. Better luck next time.
I take the threat of Liz being thrown to the beast if she abdicates as being a thinly veiled metaphor for anyone in (British) power being thrown to the beast that is the British media if they make the 'wrong' decision. How many people have the British media killed now? How many have had their lives ruined? Insert montage of car chases, phone hacking, ridiculous head lines, and Piers fucking Morgan taking issue with your existence.
And the monarch has to be in there because (a) most Brits are royalists, and (b) Amy approves of an independent Scotland.
woah look at that outfit!
The emotion of the Dr's rejection of of Amy rang true for me, because she had angled him into making the type of painful moral decision he hates having to make but knows he can't avoid. That he has to take it upon himself to take actions that may have consequences no one should bare and few would understand. It wasn't about how long they had been together but his internal dilemas. The second telling of "the last of a kind who couldn't hurt children" was completely different to the first: the first made the point given; the second was saying i can and i will make decisions as you do and accept the consequences as you do, with absolute faith in your example and who you are. One spoke or her powers of perception, the other of who she was. It was someone the Dr could be with in an authentically accepted companion partnership.
For me it was meh, about as meh as the one with the cars under new earth with ten
Honestly like 80% of DW's second episodes are meh. Save for the Lake two parter and Fires of Pompeii maybe
A very forgettable and boring story that is poorly placed in matts era but contains important themes and a decent moment towards the end. Never been huge on this one.
I thike at the best below aother elpisdr the silmers are good monters mstt smith is geetinv good and i hope jodie faaces the siimers ate show have aothr comeback
Hey council of geeks what’s your real first name as I was referring to u in a conversation and saying council of geeks is a pain.
Nathaniel.
Thank you
Vera 😉
Now Moffat and Gattis are off to ruin Dracula. Alice in wonderland might be next. Or wind in the willows
All right not gonna lie u looking fresh
I hate this story, so boring IMO