I like how 10 is afraid of regeneration because he thinks he will have just one more life after it. So he's just suddenly realised his mortality and that his time is nearly over. Besides, he only lived for 3 years in this regeneration, so it was kind of a wasted life. I get that it becomes too much, but it does work and makes sense, because the facade that the Doctor always puts up for the people he loves has finally slipped.
Peaceful Dawn no it was much longer than 3 years, he said something about the oods civilization development taking 100 years. With all the relative timey wimey, tenants doctor was alive for at least 100 years
I always wondered what it would have been like had Mickey and Martha continued on with Torchwood after the conclusion of WHO series 4.. If you recall, Jack, Martha and Mickey walk away together. It would have been interesting to have seen their relationship develop on its own and progress to where they wed.
@@hmsljj I genuinely think that was the original intention. Martha is a medic and Mickey is a computer and technology guy. Which two characters had just died in Torchwood? The medic and the computer/technology expert. If series 3 of Torchwood had been the same format as series 1 and 2, they probably would have brought in Mickey and Martha.
I get what you're saying but it still felt forced. Martha goes from being engaged to this other guy to suddenly being married to Mickey. It was like Davies was trying to cram in so many of the characters we had come to know and love throughout his tenure as showrunner, and this was a way of doing so, which just struck me as being contrived. I suppose you can argue that he wanted them to give Mickey something of a happy ending, in that he finally met another woman after Rose and was now happily married but nevertheless. It would have been one thing had they somehow just ended up working together as friends and colleagues, but this didn't work at all for me.
I'm not massively fond of the phrase 'National Treasure', which is overused here in the UK where anyone in the public eye who has been around for some time is awarded that title. But if anyone deserves it I would say it is Bernard Cribbins. He's had a long career in acting, mostly in comic roles, and even had a couple of hit singles in the 60s with comedy songs like Right Said Fred. He had some experience of Dr Who before becoming Wilf, only in the Peter Cushing film Daleks Invasion Earth 2150 AD, not the Classic series. I saw him interviewed about his time on Nu Who and his reaction to Tennant's regeneration into Smith. Apparently when he saw Matt Smith's brief performance he said, "He'll do." And if any should know, it would be Bernard Cribbins.
So, just to be clear, The Master (whose current regeneration is that of a Caucasian male with blonde hair and blue eyes) wanted to turn everyone on Earth into versions of himself and he called them The Master Race. Alright then.
It was a wonderful joke. Perfect in our PC times and proof Davis has a great sense of humor even while definitely NOT being an Alt Right tard (their PC opposites are equally tiresome if less cancerous; but even they are dangerous in seeking redress through censorship rather than time and persuasion as one should do in a democracy!! See China, '1984'). One of the great jokes in DR Who and another example of why Simms is my favorite Master after Delgato. And like him he is unique, full of energy and pathos and a lot of fun while making a point about politicians like Tony Blair who just never goes away just as today 'Saxons believers' (Blairites) are STILL sabotaging democracy and Jeremy Corbyn!
I actually really liked all of 10's angst about regeneration. All of the other times the Doctor knew he had more lives to live. Tennant's Doctor, as far as he knew, was regenerating for the last time. I think it makes sense for this to be a lot more bleak for him. Honestly, for me the "it's not fair" "hissy fit" as you call it was the best part of this two parter. Because yes, it shows 10 at his worst, but he still did it anyway. That's what is important to me. Yes, 10 was flawed, deeply. But he still did the right thing. And that is triumphant, befitting a regeneration story in my opinion.
Well argued. Though I’d point out that Tennant the actor wouldn’t have known that at the time he gave the performance because that depended on the War Doctor who wasn’t a thing yet.
@@CouncilofGeeks Yes, but canonically Tennant's *Doctor* knew that he existed ("The man who regrets, and the man who forgets" - Day of the Doctor) and it could be argued that Moffat, to some extent, thought about Tennant's tenure as the Doctor and specifically these episodes when creating the War Doctor. P.s. Council of Geeks: craps on one of Tennant's BEST performances and calls him "whiney" Me: 20:41
I can't think of John Simm in this story without wanting to stuff my face with hamburgers. Not hamburger vendors, though... gotta draw the line somewhere.
I get not liking the hissy fit, but I think after the setup in the previous specials it was important to see the Doctor have that moment, because it isn't really a hissy fit at all, it's a moment of self rebuke. It's the Doctor openly acknowledging that he could just let Wilf die, but that to disregard one person's life as inferior to his own, would be a moment of such selfish ego that it would fundamentally betray everything he stands for. It's a recognition that no matter what choice the Doctor makes, he is going to "die". Obviously sacrificing himself to save Wilf will kill him in the traditional sense, or rather force him to regenerate. The "Doctor" lives on, but as new man taking up the mantle. Should he choose the alternative, however, should he sacrifice someone else... well, the man he is in this incarnation might live, but he wouldn't really be the "Doctor" anymore. If he had made that choice, if he had prioritized his own survival above all other things including his own morality, what we might have witnessed instead would be the birth of the VALEYARD.
Another thing that occurred to me is, over the course of the series up to now, The Doctor had allowed numerous people to sacrifice themselves. Even Davros called him on it. He couldn't do that this time.
Plus, we had just got the Timelord Victorious in The Waters of Mars, his darkest hour in the series. (And the triple knock, which he counts.) He fights this regeneration, but his own actions set it up. He is callous in the Waters of Mars, convinced he knows best for the puny humans, flouting the Laws of Time; the argument he has with himself is, I think, deciding whether he will continue to go down that road or whether he will pull himself back from the brink and do what the Doctor has always done-- self-sacrifice in the service of Good. BTW, I don't necessarily think that the Time Lords are "Good" as we think of good.
@@athenastewart9167 I just watched the Christmas special with the Titanic last night, and Mr Copper said there, (paraphrasing) that if the Doctor were to choose who lives or dies, he'd be some kind of monster. Then, just two episodes after that one, it's Donna who begs the Doctor to save one family in Pompeii, just one, just save SOMEONE. And he does, even though he first doesn't want to. It's even taken over into the other regenerations, this need to save at least someone. But isn't that exactly the same thing as choosing who gets to live? sure, the family was right there, so it was a bit of a coincidence to pick them and not someone else. But nonetheless, the Doctor chose to save their lives even in an event that was a fixed point in time, that HAD to happen. How is that so different from The Waters of Mars? I know it is, but I think it lends weigh to the Doctor's decision to decide to at least save ONE of them. At least save SOMEONE. And screw the rules. So... no, I don't really think Ten decided to act against all the rules because he felt superior to the puny humans (i'm sure he feels quite superior in many other occasions, though, he's a smug, sometimes arrogant bastard at times). I think he did it because he still remembered Donna's plea. And he forgot Mr Copper's warning. And calling him 'callous' when he comes back because he can't bear to hear the Mars-crew scream in terror and begging for help is quite harsh.
@@frizzlethecat2084 The difference, I think, is that he chose to save the one person whose death mattered to the fixed point in time-- the Captain. And, where saving the family at Pompeii didn't nullify the day of the Volcano, Saving the Captain of the Mars Expedition did. Finally, when he saved the family in Pompeii, he did it for Donna. When he saved the Captain of the Mars Expedition, he did it for himself.
Athena Stewart I see your point, and as I said, I also see the difference. Of course it's a difference between saving the pivotal person (the Captain) to saving some family no-one in history remembers. Then again... They might have turned out to be incredibly important for history. I'm not sure if a Timelord sees everything that is lurking in the future of a person? He didn't see Donna's lifeline and importance, just that she's not a fixed point in time, so I've always thought that no, he doesn't. You're right, he saved the Captain "for himself", because there was no-one else around to do it for. (except maybe for her? She did in the beginning want him to save them, if I remember correctly) But would it have mattered if he'd saved her for someone, maybe Donna, even? Would he have refused to save her if Donna had asked it? And I'm not buying the selfishness completely, that he saved her just for himself. If that's so, he also saved Wilfred for himself. In that line of thinking, every act in life of every person is done out of complete selfishness, because saving someone benefits yourself. It makes you feel better, makes you not feel useless and stupid if you save a life. Do we do kindness out of utter selfishness, just so WE can feel better about ourselves? I'm not mocking, just in case it comes across that way. I truly think that deep, deep down, people are entirely selfish and every act of altruism is based on our own desire to not feel bad about our actions. If that's the case, and if we take as truth that Ten is the most human Doctor, even the Doctor would be bound by these desires and act selflessly because he genuinely would feel bad otherwise, and he doesn't want to feel bad. He did feel pretty crappy when leaving the family that his own actions (choosing the world over "just" Pompeii) had condemned. He says to Donna "Can't you understand, if I could go back and save them then I would, but I can't. I can never go back, I can't, I just can't" *whispering "I can't". I'm sure that was either used as or already planned out as one of the points in the Doctor's decline to the moment he chose to defy the rules of time, on Mars. In the moment on Mars, that is probably indeed the most selfish act when it comes to saving people. Because leaving people to die is just not a good feeling for him, never has been and probably never will be. Then again, if everyone who acts altruistically does so out of ingrained selfishness, does it even matter? I mean, if everyone is the same way - is there a bad way to act altruistic? I don't think the Doctor saved the Captain because he wanted to show the world how grand he was. (That would be truly a bad way to act altruistic, btw ;-) ) I think he didn't want anyone else to die, wanted to save someone else, one more, just one more. And of course he didn't want to leave Mars with the screams of the dying, terrified expedition-members in his ears. which is probably selfish, I give you that. His "tough!" when she was shocked and appalled over his powers - that was selfish and completely arrogant. That was the moment he felt powerful and godlike - and she felt the need to take him down a peg by defying him and by taking her own life. I just don't fully buy that the act of saving her was already fueled by the desire to become a god, or something godlike. I think it's more simple, a bit kinder. Just the (selfish) desire to not walk away with their terror in his ears when he could actually save them (or well, only one of them) And a little bit of anarchy in his veins when he realized that there isn't actually anyone who could enforce the rules of timelords anymore, and he COULD do as he wanted, save anyone he wants to save. This time, he CAN go back and save someone. (We all agree that he shouldn't have) All of Ten's actions throughout his last season make sense to me, they click into each other like fantastic puzzle-pieces of a complex character. Maybe that's why I don't mind him turning into a power-infused monster, and also why I don't mind him not wanting to regenerate yet and raving on about how unfair he thinks it is that he will do it anyway. Because there truly is no choice but to save Wilfred. Not really. Sure, he could. But he can't, because that would mean walking away once more. And turn his back on something he actually has the means and the options of saving. Wow, this is some extreme ranting. Sorry for the long reply! :-D Feel free to ignore it if it's too confusing and weird, LOL
I gotta say, Bernard Cribbins is a national treasure in the UK. Has been going since the 60s. The Wombles was the biggest memory from the 70s. Even had a famous song in the UK charts 'Right Said Fred'. All searchable on this website.
I'm a fan of the 'farewell tour' but the most perfect thing, is even though i don't like Rose, they brought the Russel era full circle, which was a great end IMO
RE: the spittage: I saw Richard II with David Tennant and I later told Jasper Britton, who played Bolingbroke, that we were within spitting distance of the actors on stage and he informed me that that is called "actoplasm."
It's interesting that you consider The Doctor's petty tantrum when faced with death a "human" reaction. We've seen The Master, Rasillon and the Time Lords themselves doing everything they can to avoid natural death. Wilf is the most human character -- even contrasted with the Naismiths -- and he is willing to sacrifice himself for the Doctor without a thought. I say this a lot but I think regeneration just means *more* if it has true consequences, if it's like a death. If it's just someone changing their face (usually even getting younger in the bargain), then there's no drama. Yes, The Doctor says "the moment has been prepared for," but that is the 4th Doctor coming to terms with his death and accepting that he'll live on in another form. I compare it to "Doctor, I let you go." Each incarnation of the Doctor is like the "child" of the previous one but the parent must die to bring them to life.
The Doctors did encounter Rassilon in "The Five Doctors" but it was right at the end, he was a floating head, and only really showed up to resolve the plot, wherein the First Doctor convinces him to give Borusa immortality after learning the meaning behind: "To lose it to win, and he who wins shall lose." Basically that immortality is a curse.
I actually love that regeneration is treated as a death, and not just because it makes sense for this particular Doctor. I think it just makes sense in general. And I love that RTD tried to touch on the implications of regeneration aside from the fact that the Doctor looks different and it unsettles companions. I think what’s different about this Doctor is that he couldn’t accept his death, whereas other could, and he’s aware of it. A couple seconds before saying “I don’t want to go”, he seems to be realizing something big, and when he says it, he comes off as almost surprised. I saw that specific quote from Doctor Who many times before I actually watched that episode, and I expected the Doctor to sound very self-pitying when he says it, but then, I watched that scene, and it really didn’t feel that way. When he says it, it doesn’t feel like just “I really want to stay”, it feels like “oh my god, what’s wrong with me? For the first time, I actually don’t want to go.”
Funny, not funny story; At the moment when you patted your chest 4 times, my front door was knocked on with the same rhythm. Heart stopping... the city tax assessor got a big laugh as I flew out the door yelling no, no, no, no. I backed up your review to show him the moment and discovered he is a Whovian. Freaky Friday moment. I miss Wilf!!!
My thought too and I think that is even very relevant. Think about it, Rassilon has been in a semi-aware state of suspended animation for CENTURIES before he was resurrected for the Time War. Can you be surprised if he has just a tiny bit insane?
I agree so much about Martha and Mickey. So glad to hear somebody say it. I don't buy it, it's not been earned and it seems like they're just pairing up the two black characters.
FaerieKim disagree. I think when you think about the two characters they would actually match quite well. They both have this shared life experience with the doctor and you could easily see them keeping in touch especially if something came up. Besides Jack, there’s really no one else whose traveled with 10 around. So that could easy be the spark that begins the relationship. Both of them are loyal people ready to give their hearts to someone who will love and appreciate them. I don’t think it had anything to do racially. It was a simply case of numbers at the end. Rose was gone with her doctor, donna lost her memory, jack’s got a complicated love life - not to mention his own distractions in Cardiff. Finally, when the doctor visits them, they are obviously in the future. This means they had plenty of time to fall in love off screen.
Torchwood5 I don't think she was Susan because we never got her backstory so we don't actually know if she was timelord or not we just assumed it cause of hr being with the doctor and a few things he said that could have been lies I thinks she was where the weeping angels got started cause she did have her hands over her eyes like the weeping angels do
Martha was mentioned to be on her honeymoon during Children of Earth which makes her whole original engagement even weirder. Freema Agyeman and Noel Clarke were actually originally intended to be in CoE but due to BBC cuttings production budgets being cut they were not included.
I love this story, I think Tennant is great for the most part (although he's a bit too moany at times) I think part 1 is better than part 2, but i love it overall P.S. The scene with The Doctor, Wilf and the gun is one of the best scenes of all time IMO
Yeah that gun scene is awesome. For me this two parter does waste its time in a couple areas, but moments like that make me appreciate it a lot more. Edit- And I get chills when Wilf knocks four times on the glass
The one issue I had with this was how much they treated timelord science like straight up magic. Like the Master is revived with a full on necromantic ritual with potions and blood sacrifices. It's not even that timelord science is doing some crazy stuff, it's that is has all the trappings of fantasy magic. The worst part is that it wouldn't have been that hard to convert it into science fiction terms. Make the master leave behind instructions to build a machine instead of formula's for a potion. Make the machine (working on the law of equivalent exchange) have to absorb and harvest a whole bunch of people in order to reconstitute the Master, Mrs. Saxon could then straight up just try bashing the thing into pieces instead of the convoluted Cult of Saxon and brewing the anti potions of life. Then there's the lightening powers. They kind of treat it like "oh his resurrection went wrong so he has lightening powers." The doctor says he's been split open and is spilling energy. There was an easy way to make that more palatable. Say the Master because he was killed mid resurrection initiated a regeneration that went sideways. He's now stuck with the same face, spilling regeneration energy and then just say he figured out how to redirect the regeneration energy into a concentrated beam. Because he is leaking energy in this way he's having to consume vast amounts of food to keep from burning out. Could also use that to explain why he went blonde. I like this story as a whole but there's a thousand little details that they could have shored up which would have made it so much tighter.
Martha and Mickey wouldn't bother me as much if wasn't clearly shoving the two black characters together. I mean, to me it's believable that Mickey would go to work at UNIT with Martha and maybe they'd develop a relationship. However, before that scene they never shared even one line of dialogue, never once acknowledged each other. So it just feels like sticking them together for the sake of it, and them being the two black characters makes it much worse.
@@tiredtropes8433 lol how's it campy, he was simply staying that he didn't want to lose his current reincarnation, bear in mind this reincarnation of tennant had one of the shortest lifespans in 3 years
And? Out of context all it is, is RTD and Tennant subliminally getting the fan girls to love him more and like the new guy less before he even arrives.
@@FerretLG1 That's ridiculous. I loved Tennant but it took me less time to warm up to Matt Smith than to Tennant. Seems to me your problem is with girls and not with the line or the performance.
Yes, Bernard Cribbins is a national treasure in the UK, and a person’s age says a lot about what you first saw him in. For me, because I’m very old, it was “The Railway Children”, “Jackanory” and “The Wombles” - please search them on here if I’m talking in code. I loved him in DW. The salute in this one and the tears in “Turn Left” have me in a puddle on the carpet. Even you mentioning the salute got to me. Glad we feel the same!
I absolutely love John Simm’s master. I find him so charming and comedic. I’m way more endeared to him than dreading him. I guess his hypnosis worked on me 😂
The master ain't meant to be comedic and I don't find john simm charming because for most of this episode he's eating people and shouting but that's just my opinion glad u found enjoyment
The potion piece in my mind is the "human equivalent" of what the Time Lords would have done, which is why he's "glitching" (hunger, lightning, etc.)- because it was barely gonna work in the first place. I can also buy that in the "Year that Never Was" that the Master could have started a cult.
Classic Who/Nu-Who notes: - I feel that The Master's resurrection is much easier to swallow knowing as a classic series fan that the Sisterhood of Karn litterly lives on the planet next to Gallifrey (Karn) (Per 'Brain of Morbius'). Also in a post- 'The Night of The Doctor' world, we've seen The Sisterhood of Karn study "Timelord Science" to bring back The Eighth Doctor from death, so I'm willing to write off The Master's resurrection as being through the vain of the Sisterhood of Karn. - I also feel that the south sayer can be written off as being someone with prolonged exposure to the tear in time and space that The Doctor refers to in 'The Last of the Timelords', maybe she went mad and is able to see potential future timelines. - OMG I love the Idea of The Woman being Romana! I've never thought of that and it's honestly the best use of that character with pre existing lore! Thank you.
As a Brit, I can confirm that Bernard Cribbins is INDEED a national treasure. A huge part of my childhood in both the 60s movie adaptations of "The Railway Children" and the non-canon Peter Cushing "Daleks: Invasion Earth" movie that introduced me to Doctor Who. (I'm not that old, but they were oft repeated on the telly) But it's his role in modern Who that will always stick in my mind. "The Railway Children" is to this day a wonderful family film, and I'm happy that my sister's kids know it as well as I do. It's what i consider a "grown up kids movie" in the vein of Mary Poppins or Bedknobs and Broomsticks (minus the cartoon element)
Bernard Cribbins is indeed a national treasure. To people of my generation (I'm 43) he will forever be the voice of The Wombles. He's 94 now, or thereabouts, and still going strong. He's appeared in many films, including the second Dalek one, but also a handful of Carry Ons; 1965's She; The Water Babies, and more. On TV, he appeared in Fawlty Towers and Jackanory - he even had his own TV show in '66! Musically, he made a number of recordings, including Hole in the Ground and Right Said Fred. Even more recently, he played the title character in the CBeebies show Old Jack's Boat. Frankly, "national treasure" doesn't do him justice!
I always liked The End of Time, I found it an enjoyable story! I see why you had issue with the whole thing with Ten and regeneration, but could you argue that because he's done it soooo many times, that he himself understands it better than he use to, and that he knows he won't be the same person really in a way.
Confirming cribbins is beyond national treasure, voice of the wombles, every bbc radio show ever, multiple songs (the band right said fred are named after one).
Yeah, love how Cribbins has been great throughout the years. Ever since I was a kid watching the Wombles on TV to him making me cry every time I watch him as Wilf. Even when he randomly popped up in Fawlty Towers when I watched that a few weeks ago.
Talking of referencing real life politics: the PM in Aliens of London was supposed to be Blair but the lookalike didn’t look enough like Blair so he remains anonymous.
Prophecy in timelord society has been around for ages thanks to the timelord matrix which is the consciousness of all timelords that predicts the future very accurately
I'm so glad to see someone agrees with me (well, and this viewpoint in general) about this Master- yes, he's ridiculous, but he's not any more ridiculous than the Master has been in the past, and it's completely justified in the episode! And also that yes the resurrection scene is dumb but it's short so it doesn't hugely negatively impact the episode. This has always been one of my absolute favorite stories, I'm glad not everyone has massive problems with it.
With Martha and Mickey, actually I thought it was just and proper. Both were treated a bit like crud by what they saw as their "significant other," Mickey with Rose and Martha with the Doctor. Both were wonderful in their own right, their partners didn't see it, and it was good to see them having gotten together. I also don't like it when they mention specific real political figures; it dates it. Didn't like it here, and didn't like it in the later episode from this past season. Unless it's a historical piece, leave real people out! As for the engineering on that Vinvocci device.... clear plot device! No real engineer worth their salt would design it like that. As you did, I adore Wilf, and he really got the emotions going in all of his scenes! Ten seemed to be a huge emo boy; although most Doctors don't rail at regeneration, I can see him doing it.... especially since he believed that the next version was his last life. Put it in context like that, and maybe one can understand a bit.
I REALLY love how in the final scene, just before the tenth Doctor becomes the eleventh, the music and mood of the entire thing is EXTREMELY dramatic and sentimental and in the first instant afterwards it become COMPLETELY inverted -- lighthearted, not even vaguely sentimental and just a little silly. It's the most incredible thing. I just love this.
The whole radiation control room setup was reverse plot armor, it makes absolutely no sense to set up such a system except to provide a plot device to kill the Doctor in the end.
Bernard Cribbins really _is_ a national treasure, whose prolific career spans six decades. In his early years, he appeared in both the Ealing Comedies and Carry On series of films, which were/are very popular over here. He also appeared in the movie version of _Dalek Invasion Earth_ alongside Peter Cushing, and was the avuncular signalman/railway porter in the popular children's film of _The Railway Children._ He was a big star on children's TV as the narrator and voice of the Wombles, and was practically a fixture (more than 100 episodes) on the popular story-telling show, _Jackanory._ He guest-starred in _Fawlty Towers_ as a fussy salesman mistaken by Basil for a hotel inspector, and his performance there is another understated gem; Cribbins would later appear in two sitcom series of his own as the lovable yokel "Cuffy". Apart from these and many other works, he also had two hit records in the 60s with _Hole in the Ground_ and _Right Said Fred._ A lovely actor, and a much-loved personality on and off screen.
The ridiculous thing from RTD was in the ‘Writers Tale’ was that Tom Milligan, Martha’s ex fiancé, abused her. I don’t buy it, and feels like a retroactive reason as to justify why her and Micky got together.
I was just thinking... He recognized the woman and she recognized him... but is it ever somewhere explained how the TimeLords actually recognize each other after they regenerate? :D
Explained flat out? No. It just happens. Right back to classic the Doctor ran into multiple regenerations of Barusa and knew him right off, ditto an old school mate of the Doctor recognized him immediately despite the Doctor being several regenerations along. So, not said but repeatedly demonstrated. The only time it didn’t happen was with Missy but it can be argued that a new regeneration cycle threw off the Doctor or that Missy went out of her way to cloak herself.
We saw Rassilons spirit in the 5 Doctors movie that was as close as we got at the time. Fun fact the Lord President of Gallifrey at the time who put on the Ring of Rassilon played Rassilon in the Capaldi era
I've always thought that the Time Lords were never as rational at heart then they liked to think of themselves. The same way they were not nearly as enlightened as they wanted to think. And in the most desperate times, people reach out for solutions they would otherwise scoff at. The superstition element worked for me, because Rassilon would be truly grasping at straws.
I realise that Night of the Doctor doesn't make it super clear but the Sisters of Karn aren't timelords. They're an entirely separate species with something of a trade deal with the timelords where they provide them with the Elixir of Life to aid them when a regeneration goes wrong. It's not so much that they have techno magic that is the problem. It's that it looks like fantasy magic, potions and fortune tellers and lightening powers. Just a little bit of effort could have seen all of those elements do the exact same thing but with a more timelord science based explanation.
Love that your misgivings about the episode pretty much line up with mine. The voodoo stuff with the "rebirth" was a bridge too far, and when Lucy says "aha, but I knew you were making plans, I so I made plans to stop you!" It was like the worst badly written detective story attempt at a twist. And I got the same reaction to the Martha and Mickey thing you did. Especially since she was engaged to someone else, last we heard about, which added a level of smarminess. I liked the rest of it, particularly the Impossible Things book signing. Loved that. But my favorite scene in the whole thing is the coffeeshop. To me, it's so incredibly real, it transcends acting in a scene. I disliked the hissy fit at the end, and great description btw, thought it was over the top for even Tennant's Doctor, but the coffeeshop with Wilf is exquisite.
Wilf and the Doctor's interactions, and the final 20 minutes of part II, is what I enjoyed the most about this two-parter. Everything else for me was forgettable. But not the review. As always, it's well thought out and presented, even if I don't agree with some of the conclusions. So thank you for that.
I so agree with all of your observations on this one. I mostly like it when show runners go big. It isn’t always tight, but usually pretty enjoyable to watch. I like the farewell tour as well. The only time I rolled my eyes was the long trek through the snow, mostly because it was too long. I don’t care for I don’t want to go, but whatever, it fits for this doctor. And I really didn’t have that much a problem with it as other people seem to. He’s not my doctor, but he is wonderful.
He didn't play it a death. He played it like a child not wanting to listen to the adults. The timelords were saying "You have to regenerate" and he was going "won't, won't, won't, won't." It wasn't regeneration he was rebelling against. It was the timelord's ruling.
@@twilliamspro Because the Second Doctor was being punished for leaving Gallifrey and then breaking the Laws of Time by interfering in events. They recognised that he had to interfere, but his fellow Time Lords still had to punish him for breaking their laws. The exile of Three from travelling through Time going forward until The Three Doctors is also another punishment.
@@twilliamspro Not to mention that at the same time as he was being told he would be forced to regenerate he was also being told that his time machine would be rendered non functional. It was much more the specific situation he was in that he was trying to run away from than it was regeneration in general.
Tennant was and remains my favorite doctor and although I have a few issues with this two-parter I still get the feels whenever I watch it. The Doctor will continue on, but this version will die, which echoes how we the fans feel about it. Also, this is just my opinion, but I do remember Tennant in interviews saying he wanted to never ever resent his job and wanted to walk away at the height of the show's popularity and while he still enjoyed coming to work, rather than let it get to the point where it wasn't fun anymore. I'm sure that he didn't want to get typecast either. I understood and applauded his decision, even though I could've watched him in the role another 100 years. Who knows, with the current de-aging CGI technology, we might see him in the 60th anniversary special!
I know you’re gonna do a 10th doctor review thing on a Sunday video but I’d really love to hear your opinions on the Davies era as a whole having just finished it! :)
Bernard Cribbins had two great appearances in AVENGERS episodes ("The Girl From Auntie" and "Look - (Stop Me If You've Heard This One) But There Were These Two Fellers.") He sort of existed forever for me as a young guy until his Doctor Who appearances. Since then, I see Wilf when I think of him. I love that character. Cribbins himself also would have been an interesting choice for The Doctor after Pertwee left.
I'd love for a Bernard Cribbins appearance one last time, he's in his early 90s and still working, and I wouldn't even care if it was forced into a story, he's just great.
I'm actually completely fine with his "hissy fit" just because 1. He WAS the most human Doctor personality-wise and 2. He lived the shortest out of all the Doctors, canonically only like 3 years I think? And the regeneration being treated as death thing... Well I think it was always an open question. Sure, it never was stated as such before, but if you asked someone before this: "is regeneration like dying?" and then looked at all the evidence, you could have easily made the case even before now it was dying just because sure the Doctor keeps the same memories throughout, but at the same time his whole personality changes and I'd argue that is what makes a person themself. So maybe him being more human and living so short, led to him not accepting this death the same way his other incarnations would. Maybe it takes a more alien personality to accept this event happening.
Hi! So I just found this channel in my homepage recommended and I'm glad that I did! I just wanted to pop by and say hello as well as offer my on thoughts on this episode and this portrayal of The Master? While I get why people may dislike this episode and why they may take issue with some of the wonkier aspects, I personally love it. I know this is probably a super weird thing but, when I was first watching New Who, I remember John Simm's version of The Master always standing out to me. I think his version is my favorite because of the emotional depth to him that these episodes in particular give to him. I realize I am biased because 1) 10 was my first Doctor, 2) Simm was my first Master, and 3) the RTD era is my personal favorite (with s10 coming in as a very close second) but these episodes really flesh out The Master in a unique way. I really love how The Master was essentially forced into being the way that he is by the Time Lords. Perhaps this is just me but Simm! Master in particular always seemed like he was just desperate to return home. After Derek Jacobi's regeneration in Utopia, s3 Simm! Master's whole plan revolved around making a new order of Time Lords after finally getting an answer from The Doctor in Sound of Drums that Gallifrey had been massacred. It was an undertone in s3 but it appeared as if he just wanted to go home after waking up from being a human after fleeing a war that was so horrible that it made even someone like The Master turn and run away because he was terrified. Moving back to s4, this take on The Master is my favorite as it shows his desperation to--while he does threaten to turn the other Time Lords into clones of him--see his people again, the drumming noise that was forced upon him and turned him into what he was, and just how far his has fallen/how willing he is to do whatever it takes to survive. He's a broken shell of a person that has let anger consume him. I apologize if this is a bit muddled and confusing as I am pretty fucking drunk right now but I don't think anyone's really gonna read this anyway lmao! If you do, I hope everything is going well for you and thank you for listening to a drunk woman's ramblings. ^-^
I recently rewatched this at a Fathom event, so it's still fresh in my mind. A few thoughts: Yeah, The Master's return was very stereotypically magical. It might've been better served as a mad scientist scenario. I quite like The Master's mad speech about food, there's something fascinatingly enthralling about it to me. Bernard Cribbins is indeed a national treasure, having deservedly gotten an OBE for his services to drama. Fun fact: He sang a novelty tune in the early 60's called "Right Said Fred", which is where the dance-pop band got its name from. My problem with the second prophesy is that they set out to fulfill the conditions of it, creating a closed loop situation in that it only exists because they did it. There's something fun about the identity of The Woman being a mystery. My headcanon wavers, because I can see points both for being their mother or being Romana. I love the farewell tour and regularly watch the isolated clip of it on the official Who channel. I desperately want Big Finish or someone to tell Martha & Mickey's story, because it did come out of the blue. And I'm kind of glad I'm not the only one who thought the same thing you did when it came to their union. Also, there's something sweet about the callback to Donna's dad. Chokes me up every time. Adamantly not a fan of Tennant's petulance, particularly "I don't want to go". There's just something about that which irritates me.
I don't really get why they bothered with the "he'll knock four times" prophecy. Why have the specials being 10 wandering around for ages knowing he's going to die, just to irradiate him so he that he can wander around for ages knowing he's going to die! Wouldn't it have been better to irradiate him at the beginning of the year, and have the specials being his visits to old companions?
The Time Lady that appears to Wilf and the Doctor in the episodes, I thought it could have been part of his family he left behind on Galifrey or lost in the Time War, a wife from his time on Galifrey, or maybe even Susan.
I love it more when the writers give more levity to The Doctor regenerating. In the olden days, if there was anything I didn't like at all was the bland mood towards regeneration. I get the 10th Doctor's fear of regenerating, because I always assumed regeneration is similar to reincarnating (aside from the next doctor retaining the past memories), with the consciousness dying.
I when watched *cough* revisited this episode with my family before you reviewed it... I was crying...Not for David Tennant's Long Goodbyes and others...But Wilfred Mott , made me cry...and I kept on saying... "Oh Wilf, Oh Wilf, OH WILF" over and over again!!! Bernard Cribbins ' performance Killed me, more than the all goodbyes in this final story because of what happened to Donna, I wanted what Wilf wanted his Granddaughter to remember again... But mostly, when he tried to give the doctor the gun...and Bernard Cribbins' killed me!!! AGAIN!!!
I think we can safely assume quite a bit of time has passed and it wasn't "all of a sudden." It makes sense to me that Mickey would have joined her and Jack at Torchwood and we don't have any time or place context.
I was honestly more emotionally touched by "I could do so much more" than I was by "I don't want to go." The Tenth Doctor's final line comes out of nowhere, but the scene that causes him to regenerate in the first place has a better build up. The Doctor is trying so hard to talk himself out of doing this, but in the end he follows his kinder nature and saves Wilf. He didn't have to, and he really didn't want to die, but he did it anyway. The regeneration would've been more emotional if it happened right after the Doctor saved Wilf, like how Five regenerated right after giving his life to save Peri.
I truly enjoy these Overdue Reviews! About the 'Joining the Doctor or Fleeing' comment: I'm not sure the marketing girl from Planet of the Oods is a good example of the situation. For what I remember, she did not just flee, she sided with the villains by yelling the protagonists' position, knowing (from her point of view) that she was effectively killing people.
I can tell you that yes Bernard Cribbins is a national treasure, his body of work is very extensive from minor parts in films, voice overs in childrens TV like the wombles, released a couple of singles and extensive TV appearances
"Rage against the dying of the light." Why not? He could have done so much more! Who (Doctor) would want to go out with enough fire and force to damage a TARDIS? I've often wondered what it's like for a new Doctor to come in amid flame and destruction? Did it hurt? Does he or she remember a regeneration? When 9 changed to 10 did 10 recall it when he came in? If so then I understand why he didn't want to go.
I only watched the movie once. Could you refresh my memory? From what I recall 7 was more freaking out that the hospital was going to destroy his ability to regenerate than he was that he was changing.
@@NitroIndigo He's not wrong. The hospital literally killed him. He was actually dead for an afternoon or so before the regeneration kicked in and even then it was kind of messed up. That's not really in reference to his thoughts on regeneration. His "death" was separate from his regeneration in the movie by about twelve hours.
@@djkhalid6014 You don't though because as of this being written 11 wasn't going to be his last form. The War Doctor was a retcon. You can't justify a poor creative decision in book one by saying "oh don't worry they explain it in book 75", the fact is that it sucks and is unexplained in book one.
I remember reading somewhere that the actors for Micky and Martha were a pair... That might be the a slightly better reason... Trump... *facepalm* yeah. Well there are all the historical figures. Churchill and others. The "current" would be the same for the Doctor. It was a bit unusual for the show I guess... Moffat was also more forthcoming on the "resetting history to sth close to our current reality" part. Love the Romana theory!!
When you were talking about Timothy Dalton I thought about Garry oldman in friends who played a WW1 actor and had a spitting (enunciation) fight with Joey
I think it's worth pointing out that this version of Rassilon actually fits in (and follows up) nicely with how Big Finish developed the character before New Who, particularly in the stories Neverland and Zagreus (if I'm not mistaken). I'm fairly convinced that the series' writers actually had those stories in mind, because the character's general attitude seems almost identical to me.
I despise literally everything about these two episodes. Even Wilf, who I usually love, is so weepy and hero-worshipping of the Doctor, I just can't stand it. The Doctor's whining and verbally abusive to Wilf actually ruins Tennant's entire run for me. Ugh, this is just the worst.
Can we talk about Tennant and Cribbins having that talk on the ship? That scene was amazing
"I'd be proud. If you were my dad."
AceTrainer44 oh the feels
I like how 10 is afraid of regeneration because he thinks he will have just one more life after it. So he's just suddenly realised his mortality and that his time is nearly over. Besides, he only lived for 3 years in this regeneration, so it was kind of a wasted life. I get that it becomes too much, but it does work and makes sense, because the facade that the Doctor always puts up for the people he loves has finally slipped.
Peaceful Dawn plus he’d already used one up to stay as himself
Peaceful Dawn no it was much longer than 3 years, he said something about the oods civilization development taking 100 years. With all the relative timey wimey, tenants doctor was alive for at least 100 years
TRG no, it was 3 yrs
@@LouisAmroliwala it was 3 for us but a lot more for him
@@dipperpines4037 he says to wilf that he is 906 years old. He only lived for 3 years
I saw the Mickey/Martha thing as a tongue in cheek way to reference “Smith & Jones” one more time...Mickey Smith/Martha Jones..
they reference it again in the sarah jane adventures "death of the doctor"
Huh, never thought of that
The fact that Martha would now potentially be “Dr. Smith” makes me really happy
Wilf stole the show. Bernard Cribbins is a legend.
His appearance on the Tennant hosted Never Mind The Buzzcocks is absolutely briiliant.
I always saw Mickey and Marthas relationship as a poetic Smith and Jones kind of thing.
It made me like Mickey even better. It took a while!
I always wondered what it would have been like had Mickey and Martha continued on with Torchwood after the conclusion of WHO series 4.. If you recall, Jack, Martha and Mickey walk away together. It would have been interesting to have seen their relationship develop on its own and progress to where they wed.
@@hmsljj I genuinely think that was the original intention. Martha is a medic and Mickey is a computer and technology guy. Which two characters had just died in Torchwood? The medic and the computer/technology expert. If series 3 of Torchwood had been the same format as series 1 and 2, they probably would have brought in Mickey and Martha.
I get what you're saying but it still felt forced. Martha goes from being engaged to this other guy to suddenly being married to Mickey. It was like Davies was trying to cram in so many of the characters we had come to know and love throughout his tenure as showrunner, and this was a way of doing so, which just struck me as being contrived. I suppose you can argue that he wanted them to give Mickey something of a happy ending, in that he finally met another woman after Rose and was now happily married but nevertheless. It would have been one thing had they somehow just ended up working together as friends and colleagues, but this didn't work at all for me.
I'm not massively fond of the phrase 'National Treasure', which is overused here in the UK where anyone in the public eye who has been around for some time is awarded that title. But if anyone deserves it I would say it is Bernard Cribbins. He's had a long career in acting, mostly in comic roles, and even had a couple of hit singles in the 60s with comedy songs like Right Said Fred. He had some experience of Dr Who before becoming Wilf, only in the Peter Cushing film Daleks Invasion Earth 2150 AD, not the Classic series. I saw him interviewed about his time on Nu Who and his reaction to Tennant's regeneration into Smith. Apparently when he saw Matt Smith's brief performance he said, "He'll do." And if any should know, it would be Bernard Cribbins.
Don't forget 'The Wombles'. He's absolutely the best thing about The End of Time. Such incredible pathos.
Please tell me you'll do the Eleventh Hour review still in that shirt and tie
Rowan Crump right!!
But ripped up
@@xxXepicdeath53Xxx Doesn't need to go that far and ruin a shirt he might need again. A dishevelled look would do just as well.
lwaves that’s true, but it would be cool
@@xxXepicdeath53Xxx Maybe if he has a spare?
So, just to be clear, The Master (whose current regeneration is that of a Caucasian male with blonde hair and blue eyes) wanted to turn everyone on Earth into versions of himself and he called them The Master Race. Alright then.
Whoops
If this happened last season you know people would have kicked off about the PC agenda or whatever.
That's a yikes from me
It was a wonderful joke. Perfect in our PC times and proof Davis has a great sense of humor even while definitely NOT being an Alt Right tard (their PC opposites are equally tiresome if less cancerous; but even they are dangerous in seeking redress through censorship rather than time and persuasion as one should do in a democracy!! See China, '1984'). One of the great jokes in DR Who and another example of why Simms is my favorite Master after Delgato. And like him he is unique, full of energy and pathos and a lot of fun while making a point about politicians like Tony Blair who just never goes away just as today 'Saxons believers' (Blairites) are STILL sabotaging democracy and Jeremy Corbyn!
No Dragonball z for you then
I actually really liked all of 10's angst about regeneration. All of the other times the Doctor knew he had more lives to live. Tennant's Doctor, as far as he knew, was regenerating for the last time. I think it makes sense for this to be a lot more bleak for him.
Honestly, for me the "it's not fair" "hissy fit" as you call it was the best part of this two parter. Because yes, it shows 10 at his worst, but he still did it anyway. That's what is important to me. Yes, 10 was flawed, deeply. But he still did the right thing. And that is triumphant, befitting a regeneration story in my opinion.
Well argued. Though I’d point out that Tennant the actor wouldn’t have known that at the time he gave the performance because that depended on the War Doctor who wasn’t a thing yet.
@@CouncilofGeeks and to remember the reincarnation of tennant only lived for 3 years one of the shortest out of all the time Lord incarnations
@@CouncilofGeeks Yes, but canonically Tennant's *Doctor* knew that he existed ("The man who regrets, and the man who forgets" - Day of the Doctor) and it could be argued that Moffat, to some extent, thought about Tennant's tenure as the Doctor and specifically these episodes when creating the War Doctor.
P.s.
Council of Geeks: craps on one of Tennant's BEST performances and calls him "whiney"
Me: 20:41
I can't think of John Simm in this story without wanting to stuff my face with hamburgers. Not hamburger vendors, though... gotta draw the line somewhere.
I get not liking the hissy fit, but I think after the setup in the previous specials it was important to see the Doctor have that moment, because it isn't really a hissy fit at all, it's a moment of self rebuke. It's the Doctor openly acknowledging that he could just let Wilf die, but that to disregard one person's life as inferior to his own, would be a moment of such selfish ego that it would fundamentally betray everything he stands for. It's a recognition that no matter what choice the Doctor makes, he is going to "die".
Obviously sacrificing himself to save Wilf will kill him in the traditional sense, or rather force him to regenerate. The "Doctor" lives on, but as new man taking up the mantle. Should he choose the alternative, however, should he sacrifice someone else... well, the man he is in this incarnation might live, but he wouldn't really be the "Doctor" anymore.
If he had made that choice, if he had prioritized his own survival above all other things including his own morality, what we might have witnessed instead would be the birth of the VALEYARD.
Another thing that occurred to me is, over the course of the series up to now, The Doctor had allowed numerous people to sacrifice themselves. Even Davros called him on it. He couldn't do that this time.
Plus, we had just got the Timelord Victorious in The Waters of Mars, his darkest hour in the series. (And the triple knock, which he counts.) He fights this regeneration, but his own actions set it up. He is callous in the Waters of Mars, convinced he knows best for the puny humans, flouting the Laws of Time; the argument he has with himself is, I think, deciding whether he will continue to go down that road or whether he will pull himself back from the brink and do what the Doctor has always done-- self-sacrifice in the service of Good.
BTW, I don't necessarily think that the Time Lords are "Good" as we think of good.
@@athenastewart9167 I just watched the Christmas special with the Titanic last night, and Mr Copper said there, (paraphrasing) that if the Doctor were to choose who lives or dies, he'd be some kind of monster. Then, just two episodes after that one, it's Donna who begs the Doctor to save one family in Pompeii, just one, just save SOMEONE. And he does, even though he first doesn't want to. It's even taken over into the other regenerations, this need to save at least someone.
But isn't that exactly the same thing as choosing who gets to live? sure, the family was right there, so it was a bit of a coincidence to pick them and not someone else. But nonetheless, the Doctor chose to save their lives even in an event that was a fixed point in time, that HAD to happen.
How is that so different from The Waters of Mars? I know it is, but I think it lends weigh to the Doctor's decision to decide to at least save ONE of them. At least save SOMEONE. And screw the rules.
So... no, I don't really think Ten decided to act against all the rules because he felt superior to the puny humans (i'm sure he feels quite superior in many other occasions, though, he's a smug, sometimes arrogant bastard at times). I think he did it because he still remembered Donna's plea. And he forgot Mr Copper's warning.
And calling him 'callous' when he comes back because he can't bear to hear the Mars-crew scream in terror and begging for help is quite harsh.
@@frizzlethecat2084 The difference, I think, is that he chose to save the one person whose death mattered to the fixed point in time-- the Captain. And, where saving the family at Pompeii didn't nullify the day of the Volcano, Saving the Captain of the Mars Expedition did.
Finally, when he saved the family in Pompeii, he did it for Donna. When he saved the Captain of the Mars Expedition, he did it for himself.
Athena Stewart I see your point, and as I said, I also see the difference. Of course it's a difference between saving the pivotal person (the Captain) to saving some family no-one in history remembers.
Then again... They might have turned out to be incredibly important for history. I'm not sure if a Timelord sees everything that is lurking in the future of a person? He didn't see Donna's lifeline and importance, just that she's not a fixed point in time, so I've always thought that no, he doesn't.
You're right, he saved the Captain "for himself", because there was no-one else around to do it for. (except maybe for her? She did in the beginning want him to save them, if I remember correctly)
But would it have mattered if he'd saved her for someone, maybe Donna, even? Would he have refused to save her if Donna had asked it? And I'm not buying the selfishness completely, that he saved her just for himself. If that's so, he also saved Wilfred for himself. In that line of thinking, every act in life of every person is done out of complete selfishness, because saving someone benefits yourself. It makes you feel better, makes you not feel useless and stupid if you save a life. Do we do kindness out of utter selfishness, just so WE can feel better about ourselves?
I'm not mocking, just in case it comes across that way. I truly think that deep, deep down, people are entirely selfish and every act of altruism is based on our own desire to not feel bad about our actions.
If that's the case, and if we take as truth that Ten is the most human Doctor, even the Doctor would be bound by these desires and act selflessly because he genuinely would feel bad otherwise, and he doesn't want to feel bad. He did feel pretty crappy when leaving the family that his own actions (choosing the world over "just" Pompeii) had condemned.
He says to Donna "Can't you understand, if I could go back and save them then I would, but I can't. I can never go back, I can't, I just can't" *whispering "I can't".
I'm sure that was either used as or already planned out as one of the points in the Doctor's decline to the moment he chose to defy the rules of time, on Mars.
In the moment on Mars, that is probably indeed the most selfish act when it comes to saving people. Because leaving people to die is just not a good feeling for him, never has been and probably never will be.
Then again, if everyone who acts altruistically does so out of ingrained selfishness, does it even matter? I mean, if everyone is the same way - is there a bad way to act altruistic?
I don't think the Doctor saved the Captain because he wanted to show the world how grand he was. (That would be truly a bad way to act altruistic, btw ;-) ) I think he didn't want anyone else to die, wanted to save someone else, one more, just one more. And of course he didn't want to leave Mars with the screams of the dying, terrified expedition-members in his ears. which is probably selfish, I give you that.
His "tough!" when she was shocked and appalled over his powers - that was selfish and completely arrogant.
That was the moment he felt powerful and godlike - and she felt the need to take him down a peg by defying him and by taking her own life.
I just don't fully buy that the act of saving her was already fueled by the desire to become a god, or something godlike. I think it's more simple, a bit kinder.
Just the (selfish) desire to not walk away with their terror in his ears when he could actually save them (or well, only one of them) And a little bit of anarchy in his veins when he realized that there isn't actually anyone who could enforce the rules of timelords anymore, and he COULD do as he wanted, save anyone he wants to save. This time, he CAN go back and save someone.
(We all agree that he shouldn't have)
All of Ten's actions throughout his last season make sense to me, they click into each other like fantastic puzzle-pieces of a complex character. Maybe that's why I don't mind him turning into a power-infused monster, and also why I don't mind him not wanting to regenerate yet and raving on about how unfair he thinks it is that he will do it anyway. Because there truly is no choice but to save Wilfred. Not really.
Sure, he could. But he can't, because that would mean walking away once more. And turn his back on something he actually has the means and the options of saving.
Wow, this is some extreme ranting. Sorry for the long reply! :-D Feel free to ignore it if it's too confusing and weird, LOL
the moment when Wilfred knocked on the glass is one of my favourite moments in Doctor Who. I never saw that twist coming.
I gotta say, Bernard Cribbins is a national treasure in the UK. Has been going since the 60s. The Wombles was the biggest memory from the 70s. Even had a famous song in the UK charts 'Right Said Fred'. All searchable on this website.
I'm a fan of the 'farewell tour' but the most perfect thing, is even though i don't like Rose, they brought the Russel era full circle, which was a great end IMO
Personally, in my mind, the mystery woman is the Doctor's grand-daughter, Susan....
RE: the spittage: I saw Richard II with David Tennant and I later told Jasper Britton, who played Bolingbroke, that we were within spitting distance of the actors on stage and he informed me that that is called "actoplasm."
The Ending of this Two Parter Episode when The Doctor says "I don't want to go" will always make me sad.
"I don't want to go"...my boy and I say that all the time. :)
Conversely, It just bugs me to be honest.
It's interesting that you consider The Doctor's petty tantrum when faced with death a "human" reaction. We've seen The Master, Rasillon and the Time Lords themselves doing everything they can to avoid natural death. Wilf is the most human character -- even contrasted with the Naismiths -- and he is willing to sacrifice himself for the Doctor without a thought.
I say this a lot but I think regeneration just means *more* if it has true consequences, if it's like a death. If it's just someone changing their face (usually even getting younger in the bargain), then there's no drama. Yes, The Doctor says "the moment has been prepared for," but that is the 4th Doctor coming to terms with his death and accepting that he'll live on in another form. I compare it to "Doctor, I let you go." Each incarnation of the Doctor is like the "child" of the previous one but the parent must die to bring them to life.
The Doctors did encounter Rassilon in "The Five Doctors" but it was right at the end, he was a floating head, and only really showed up to resolve the plot, wherein the First Doctor convinces him to give Borusa immortality after learning the meaning behind: "To lose it to win, and he who wins shall lose." Basically that immortality is a curse.
I actually love that regeneration is treated as a death, and not just because it makes sense for this particular Doctor. I think it just makes sense in general. And I love that RTD tried to touch on the implications of regeneration aside from the fact that the Doctor looks different and it unsettles companions. I think what’s different about this Doctor is that he couldn’t accept his death, whereas other could, and he’s aware of it. A couple seconds before saying “I don’t want to go”, he seems to be realizing something big, and when he says it, he comes off as almost surprised. I saw that specific quote from Doctor Who many times before I actually watched that episode, and I expected the Doctor to sound very self-pitying when he says it, but then, I watched that scene, and it really didn’t feel that way. When he says it, it doesn’t feel like just “I really want to stay”, it feels like “oh my god, what’s wrong with me? For the first time, I actually don’t want to go.”
You should wear a raggedy version of that outfit for The Eleventh Hour review 😉
Funny, not funny story;
At the moment when you patted your chest 4 times, my front door was knocked on with the same rhythm. Heart stopping... the city tax assessor got a big laugh as I flew out the door yelling no, no, no, no. I backed up your review to show him the moment and discovered he is a Whovian. Freaky Friday moment.
I miss Wilf!!!
If Omega went mad, there was no reason why Rassilon wouldn't be evil.
Rassilon *kind of* appears in The Five Doctors.
My thought too and I think that is even very relevant. Think about it, Rassilon has been in a semi-aware state of suspended animation for CENTURIES before he was resurrected for the Time War. Can you be surprised if he has just a tiny bit insane?
I agree so much about Martha and Mickey. So glad to hear somebody say it. I don't buy it, it's not been earned and it seems like they're just pairing up the two black characters.
FaerieKim disagree. I think when you think about the two characters they would actually match quite well. They both have this shared life experience with the doctor and you could easily see them keeping in touch especially if something came up.
Besides Jack, there’s really no one else whose traveled with 10 around. So that could easy be the spark that begins the relationship. Both of them are loyal people ready to give their hearts to someone who will love and appreciate them.
I don’t think it had anything to do racially. It was a simply case of numbers at the end. Rose was gone with her doctor, donna lost her memory, jack’s got a complicated love life - not to mention his own distractions in Cardiff.
Finally, when the doctor visits them, they are obviously in the future. This means they had plenty of time to fall in love off screen.
For me the Woman is Susan :) I like to think that she was called back to Gallifrey bcs of the Time War :D
I do like that theory, especially over the idea that she's The Doctor's mother. They even look a touch similar.
Torchwood5 I don't think she was Susan because we never got her backstory so we don't actually know if she was timelord or not we just assumed it cause of hr being with the doctor and a few things he said that could have been lies I thinks she was where the weeping angels got started cause she did have her hands over her eyes like the weeping angels do
I kinda thought that also..... it was either Susan or Ramana I never thought 'oh its his mum' wha?
Torchwood5 I thought it was confirmed to be his mother?
DragonBugz outside the story yes in the narrative no
Martha was mentioned to be on her honeymoon during Children of Earth which makes her whole original engagement even weirder. Freema Agyeman and Noel Clarke were actually originally intended to be in CoE but due to BBC cuttings production budgets being cut they were not included.
CSManiac33 Couldn’t it be a honeymoon with Mickey?
I love this story, I think Tennant is great for the most part (although he's a bit too moany at times) I think part 1 is better than part 2, but i love it overall
P.S. The scene with The Doctor, Wilf and the gun is one of the best scenes of all time IMO
Yeah that gun scene is awesome. For me this two parter does waste its time in a couple areas, but moments like that make me appreciate it a lot more.
Edit- And I get chills when Wilf knocks four times on the glass
@@WiloPolis03 It was a good twist
The one issue I had with this was how much they treated timelord science like straight up magic. Like the Master is revived with a full on necromantic ritual with potions and blood sacrifices. It's not even that timelord science is doing some crazy stuff, it's that is has all the trappings of fantasy magic.
The worst part is that it wouldn't have been that hard to convert it into science fiction terms. Make the master leave behind instructions to build a machine instead of formula's for a potion. Make the machine (working on the law of equivalent exchange) have to absorb and harvest a whole bunch of people in order to reconstitute the Master, Mrs. Saxon could then straight up just try bashing the thing into pieces instead of the convoluted Cult of Saxon and brewing the anti potions of life.
Then there's the lightening powers. They kind of treat it like "oh his resurrection went wrong so he has lightening powers." The doctor says he's been split open and is spilling energy. There was an easy way to make that more palatable. Say the Master because he was killed mid resurrection initiated a regeneration that went sideways. He's now stuck with the same face, spilling regeneration energy and then just say he figured out how to redirect the regeneration energy into a concentrated beam. Because he is leaking energy in this way he's having to consume vast amounts of food to keep from burning out. Could also use that to explain why he went blonde.
I like this story as a whole but there's a thousand little details that they could have shored up which would have made it so much tighter.
Rassilon showed up alongside Zagreus as the main villain in “The Next Life”, an 8th doctor audio play from before this story.
History tends to sand off the rough edges of founding myths. i loved what Timothy Dalton did in this episode.
Martha and Mickey wouldn't bother me as much if wasn't clearly shoving the two black characters together. I mean, to me it's believable that Mickey would go to work at UNIT with Martha and maybe they'd develop a relationship. However, before that scene they never shared even one line of dialogue, never once acknowledged each other. So it just feels like sticking them together for the sake of it, and them being the two black characters makes it much worse.
I always kinda hated the "I don't wanna go", because it made me and many others dislike 11 at first.
I always thought it was so campy, but I quote it all the time now. So I don't know anymore?
@@tiredtropes8433 lol how's it campy, he was simply staying that he didn't want to lose his current reincarnation, bear in mind this reincarnation of tennant had one of the shortest lifespans in 3 years
@@djkhalid6014 True. Perhaps given too cutely? In the end I love it more and more as I get further way from it.
And? Out of context all it is, is RTD and Tennant subliminally getting the fan girls to love him more and like the new guy less before he even arrives.
@@FerretLG1 That's ridiculous. I loved Tennant but it took me less time to warm up to Matt Smith than to Tennant. Seems to me your problem is with girls and not with the line or the performance.
Yes, Bernard Cribbins is a national treasure in the UK, and a person’s age says a lot about what you first saw him in. For me, because I’m very old, it was “The Railway Children”, “Jackanory” and “The Wombles” - please search them on here if I’m talking in code. I loved him in DW. The salute in this one and the tears in “Turn Left” have me in a puddle on the carpet. Even you mentioning the salute got to me. Glad we feel the same!
I absolutely love John Simm’s master. I find him so charming and comedic. I’m way more endeared to him than dreading him. I guess his hypnosis worked on me 😂
The master ain't meant to be comedic and I don't find john simm charming because for most of this episode he's eating people and shouting but that's just my opinion glad u found enjoyment
"Canocity" is a word that works much better than the version of the word I would have used in that instance, "canonicalness." Much less clunky!
The potion piece in my mind is the "human equivalent" of what the Time Lords would have done, which is why he's "glitching" (hunger, lightning, etc.)- because it was barely gonna work in the first place. I can also buy that in the "Year that Never Was" that the Master could have started a cult.
Classic Who/Nu-Who notes:
- I feel that The Master's resurrection is much easier to swallow knowing as a classic series fan that the Sisterhood of Karn litterly lives on the planet next to Gallifrey (Karn) (Per 'Brain of Morbius'). Also in a post- 'The Night of The Doctor' world, we've seen The Sisterhood of Karn study "Timelord Science" to bring back The Eighth Doctor from death, so I'm willing to write off The Master's resurrection as being through the vain of the Sisterhood of Karn.
- I also feel that the south sayer can be written off as being someone with prolonged exposure to the tear in time and space that The Doctor refers to in 'The Last of the Timelords', maybe she went mad and is able to see potential future timelines.
- OMG I love the Idea of The Woman being Romana! I've never thought of that and it's honestly the best use of that character with pre existing lore! Thank you.
Speaking of Shakespeare and David Tennant, Hamlet and Much Ado About Nothing were, as the 9th Doctor would say... Fantastic!
As a Brit, I can confirm that Bernard Cribbins is INDEED a national treasure. A huge part of my childhood in both the 60s movie adaptations of "The Railway Children" and the non-canon Peter Cushing "Daleks: Invasion Earth" movie that introduced me to Doctor Who. (I'm not that old, but they were oft repeated on the telly) But it's his role in modern Who that will always stick in my mind. "The Railway Children" is to this day a wonderful family film, and I'm happy that my sister's kids know it as well as I do. It's what i consider a "grown up kids movie" in the vein of Mary Poppins or Bedknobs and Broomsticks (minus the cartoon element)
Bernard Cribbins is indeed a national treasure. To people of my generation (I'm 43) he will forever be the voice of The Wombles. He's 94 now, or thereabouts, and still going strong. He's appeared in many films, including the second Dalek one, but also a handful of Carry Ons; 1965's She; The Water Babies, and more. On TV, he appeared in Fawlty Towers and Jackanory - he even had his own TV show in '66! Musically, he made a number of recordings, including Hole in the Ground and Right Said Fred. Even more recently, he played the title character in the CBeebies show Old Jack's Boat. Frankly, "national treasure" doesn't do him justice!
I always liked The End of Time, I found it an enjoyable story!
I see why you had issue with the whole thing with Ten and regeneration, but could you argue that because he's done it soooo many times, that he himself understands it better than he use to, and that he knows he won't be the same person really in a way.
Yes, Bernard Cribbins is a national treasure even if he'd never appeared in Doctor Who. There is nothing that isn't improved by his presence.
Confirming cribbins is beyond national treasure, voice of the wombles, every bbc radio show ever, multiple songs (the band right said fred are named after one).
Yeah, love how Cribbins has been great throughout the years. Ever since I was a kid watching the Wombles on TV to him making me cry every time I watch him as Wilf. Even when he randomly popped up in Fawlty Towers when I watched that a few weeks ago.
Please continue Overdue Review into the Eleventh Doctor. Eleventh Hour is the best regeneration story and I want to hear what you think about it.
Talking of referencing real life politics: the PM in Aliens of London was supposed to be Blair but the lookalike didn’t look enough like Blair so he remains anonymous.
Prophecy in timelord society has been around for ages thanks to the timelord matrix which is the consciousness of all timelords that predicts the future very accurately
I cry every time at the end.
I'm so glad to see someone agrees with me (well, and this viewpoint in general) about this Master- yes, he's ridiculous, but he's not any more ridiculous than the Master has been in the past, and it's completely justified in the episode! And also that yes the resurrection scene is dumb but it's short so it doesn't hugely negatively impact the episode.
This has always been one of my absolute favorite stories, I'm glad not everyone has massive problems with it.
With Martha and Mickey, actually I thought it was just and proper. Both were treated a bit like crud by what they saw as their "significant other," Mickey with Rose and Martha with the Doctor. Both were wonderful in their own right, their partners didn't see it, and it was good to see them having gotten together.
I also don't like it when they mention specific real political figures; it dates it. Didn't like it here, and didn't like it in the later episode from this past season. Unless it's a historical piece, leave real people out!
As for the engineering on that Vinvocci device.... clear plot device! No real engineer worth their salt would design it like that. As you did, I adore Wilf, and he really got the emotions going in all of his scenes! Ten seemed to be a huge emo boy; although most Doctors don't rail at regeneration, I can see him doing it.... especially since he believed that the next version was his last life. Put it in context like that, and maybe one can understand a bit.
I REALLY love how in the final scene, just before the tenth Doctor becomes the eleventh, the music and mood of the entire thing is EXTREMELY dramatic and sentimental and in the first instant afterwards it become COMPLETELY inverted -- lighthearted, not even vaguely sentimental and just a little silly. It's the most incredible thing. I just love this.
The scene where the Doctor offers to let Master travel with him is really good.
The whole radiation control room setup was reverse plot armor, it makes absolutely no sense to set up such a system except to provide a plot device to kill the Doctor in the end.
Bernard Cribbins really _is_ a national treasure, whose prolific career spans six decades. In his early years, he appeared in both the Ealing Comedies and Carry On series of films, which were/are very popular over here. He also appeared in the movie version of _Dalek Invasion Earth_ alongside Peter Cushing, and was the avuncular signalman/railway porter in the popular children's film of _The Railway Children._ He was a big star on children's TV as the narrator and voice of the Wombles, and was practically a fixture (more than 100 episodes) on the popular story-telling show, _Jackanory._ He guest-starred in _Fawlty Towers_ as a fussy salesman mistaken by Basil for a hotel inspector, and his performance there is another understated gem; Cribbins would later appear in two sitcom series of his own as the lovable yokel "Cuffy". Apart from these and many other works, he also had two hit records in the 60s with _Hole in the Ground_ and _Right Said Fred._ A lovely actor, and a much-loved personality on and off screen.
The ridiculous thing from RTD was in the ‘Writers Tale’ was that Tom Milligan, Martha’s ex fiancé, abused her. I don’t buy it, and feels like a retroactive reason as to justify why her and Micky got together.
I was just thinking... He recognized the woman and she recognized him... but is it ever somewhere explained how the TimeLords actually recognize each other after they regenerate? :D
Explained flat out? No. It just happens. Right back to classic the Doctor ran into multiple regenerations of Barusa and knew him right off, ditto an old school mate of the Doctor recognized him immediately despite the Doctor being several regenerations along. So, not said but repeatedly demonstrated. The only time it didn’t happen was with Missy but it can be argued that a new regeneration cycle threw off the Doctor or that Missy went out of her way to cloak herself.
We saw Rassilons spirit in the 5 Doctors movie that was as close as we got at the time.
Fun fact the Lord President of Gallifrey at the time who put on the Ring of Rassilon played Rassilon in the Capaldi era
(Insert "I don't wanna go" joke here)
Ok I know I'm a grammar nazi but the quotes need to end after "go", not "here"
Still a hilarious comment
Is that lisp? If so, nice...
@@WiloPolis03 shit just realised that, oh well thank you
@@ztrangefolk3015 Haha np
The time lords practised magic before Rassilon hence the Sisters of Karn
I've always thought that the Time Lords were never as rational at heart then they liked to think of themselves. The same way they were not nearly as enlightened as they wanted to think. And in the most desperate times, people reach out for solutions they would otherwise scoff at. The superstition element worked for me, because Rassilon would be truly grasping at straws.
I realise that Night of the Doctor doesn't make it super clear but the Sisters of Karn aren't timelords. They're an entirely separate species with something of a trade deal with the timelords where they provide them with the Elixir of Life to aid them when a regeneration goes wrong.
It's not so much that they have techno magic that is the problem. It's that it looks like fantasy magic, potions and fortune tellers and lightening powers. Just a little bit of effort could have seen all of those elements do the exact same thing but with a more timelord science based explanation.
Love that your misgivings about the episode pretty much line up with mine. The voodoo stuff with the "rebirth" was a bridge too far, and when Lucy says "aha, but I knew you were making plans, I so I made plans to stop you!" It was like the worst badly written detective story attempt at a twist. And I got the same reaction to the Martha and Mickey thing you did. Especially since she was engaged to someone else, last we heard about, which added a level of smarminess. I liked the rest of it, particularly the Impossible Things book signing. Loved that. But my favorite scene in the whole thing is the coffeeshop. To me, it's so incredibly real, it transcends acting in a scene. I disliked the hissy fit at the end, and great description btw, thought it was over the top for even Tennant's Doctor, but the coffeeshop with Wilf is exquisite.
Wilf and the Doctor's interactions, and the final 20 minutes of part II, is what I enjoyed the most about this two-parter. Everything else for me was forgettable.
But not the review. As always, it's well thought out and presented, even if I don't agree with some of the conclusions. So thank you for that.
I so agree with all of your observations on this one. I mostly like it when show runners go big. It isn’t always tight, but usually pretty enjoyable to watch. I like the farewell tour as well. The only time I rolled my eyes was the long trek through the snow, mostly because it was too long. I don’t care for I don’t want to go, but whatever, it fits for this doctor. And I really didn’t have that much a problem with it as other people seem to.
He’s not my doctor, but he is wonderful.
The second doctor effectively played it like death
With all his complaining and not wanting to regenerate
He didn't play it a death. He played it like a child not wanting to listen to the adults. The timelords were saying "You have to regenerate" and he was going "won't, won't, won't, won't." It wasn't regeneration he was rebelling against. It was the timelord's ruling.
@@BadWolf739 i've not seen the full episode. I just got a "i dont want to die" vibe from the regen scene
@@twilliamspro Because the Second Doctor was being punished for leaving Gallifrey and then breaking the Laws of Time by interfering in events. They recognised that he had to interfere, but his fellow Time Lords still had to punish him for breaking their laws. The exile of Three from travelling through Time going forward until The Three Doctors is also another punishment.
@@twilliamspro Not to mention that at the same time as he was being told he would be forced to regenerate he was also being told that his time machine would be rendered non functional. It was much more the specific situation he was in that he was trying to run away from than it was regeneration in general.
If we look at regeneration as death, then 2 was executed.
Tennant was and remains my favorite doctor and although I have a few issues with this two-parter I still get the feels whenever I watch it. The Doctor will continue on, but this version will die, which echoes how we the fans feel about it. Also, this is just my opinion, but I do remember Tennant in interviews saying he wanted to never ever resent his job and wanted to walk away at the height of the show's popularity and while he still enjoyed coming to work, rather than let it get to the point where it wasn't fun anymore. I'm sure that he didn't want to get typecast either. I understood and applauded his decision, even though I could've watched him in the role another 100 years. Who knows, with the current de-aging CGI technology, we might see him in the 60th anniversary special!
The goodbye segment is definitely a bit much but I love that it happened, shows the doctor actually goes back and checks on past companions.
I know you’re gonna do a 10th doctor review thing on a Sunday video but I’d really love to hear your opinions on the Davies era as a whole having just finished it! :)
I really love the idea of it being Romana
I love the two parter a lot. Gonna share it with my friend who adores John Simms Master because of the discussion on him.
Bernard Cribbons actually appeared as a Companion named Tom Campbell to the Peter Cushing Doctor in his 2nd film Daleks' Invasion Earth 2150.
Maybe this story is a bit of a mess, but that "out of the way" bit in the finale is freaking AWESOME.
I like to think of the Masters blue skull eyes thing as a nod to the second Master who was skull and eyes
Bernard Cribbins had two great appearances in AVENGERS episodes ("The Girl From Auntie" and "Look - (Stop Me If You've Heard This One) But There Were These Two Fellers.") He sort of existed forever for me as a young guy until his Doctor Who appearances. Since then, I see Wilf when I think of him. I love that character. Cribbins himself also would have been an interesting choice for The Doctor after Pertwee left.
23:19, possibly Master's mother, surrogate mother to Dr?
Zvi mur I really like the idea that it’s the masters mother
I'd love for a Bernard Cribbins appearance one last time, he's in his early 90s and still working, and I wouldn't even care if it was forced into a story, he's just great.
I'm actually completely fine with his "hissy fit" just because 1. He WAS the most human Doctor personality-wise and 2. He lived the shortest out of all the Doctors, canonically only like 3 years I think? And the regeneration being treated as death thing... Well I think it was always an open question. Sure, it never was stated as such before, but if you asked someone before this: "is regeneration like dying?" and then looked at all the evidence, you could have easily made the case even before now it was dying just because sure the Doctor keeps the same memories throughout, but at the same time his whole personality changes and I'd argue that is what makes a person themself. So maybe him being more human and living so short, led to him not accepting this death the same way his other incarnations would. Maybe it takes a more alien personality to accept this event happening.
Hi! So I just found this channel in my homepage recommended and I'm glad that I did! I just wanted to pop by and say hello as well as offer my on thoughts on this episode and this portrayal of The Master?
While I get why people may dislike this episode and why they may take issue with some of the wonkier aspects, I personally love it. I know this is probably a super weird thing but, when I was first watching New Who, I remember John Simm's version of The Master always standing out to me. I think his version is my favorite because of the emotional depth to him that these episodes in particular give to him. I realize I am biased because 1) 10 was my first Doctor, 2) Simm was my first Master, and 3) the RTD era is my personal favorite (with s10 coming in as a very close second) but these episodes really flesh out The Master in a unique way. I really love how The Master was essentially forced into being the way that he is by the Time Lords. Perhaps this is just me but Simm! Master in particular always seemed like he was just desperate to return home. After Derek Jacobi's regeneration in Utopia, s3 Simm! Master's whole plan revolved around making a new order of Time Lords after finally getting an answer from The Doctor in Sound of Drums that Gallifrey had been massacred. It was an undertone in s3 but it appeared as if he just wanted to go home after waking up from being a human after fleeing a war that was so horrible that it made even someone like The Master turn and run away because he was terrified. Moving back to s4, this take on The Master is my favorite as it shows his desperation to--while he does threaten to turn the other Time Lords into clones of him--see his people again, the drumming noise that was forced upon him and turned him into what he was, and just how far his has fallen/how willing he is to do whatever it takes to survive. He's a broken shell of a person that has let anger consume him.
I apologize if this is a bit muddled and confusing as I am pretty fucking drunk right now but I don't think anyone's really gonna read this anyway lmao! If you do, I hope everything is going well for you and thank you for listening to a drunk woman's ramblings. ^-^
I recently rewatched this at a Fathom event, so it's still fresh in my mind. A few thoughts:
Yeah, The Master's return was very stereotypically magical. It might've been better served as a mad scientist scenario.
I quite like The Master's mad speech about food, there's something fascinatingly enthralling about it to me.
Bernard Cribbins is indeed a national treasure, having deservedly gotten an OBE for his services to drama. Fun fact: He sang a novelty tune in the early 60's called "Right Said Fred", which is where the dance-pop band got its name from.
My problem with the second prophesy is that they set out to fulfill the conditions of it, creating a closed loop situation in that it only exists because they did it.
There's something fun about the identity of The Woman being a mystery. My headcanon wavers, because I can see points both for being their mother or being Romana.
I love the farewell tour and regularly watch the isolated clip of it on the official Who channel. I desperately want Big Finish or someone to tell Martha & Mickey's story, because it did come out of the blue. And I'm kind of glad I'm not the only one who thought the same thing you did when it came to their union. Also, there's something sweet about the callback to Donna's dad. Chokes me up every time.
Adamantly not a fan of Tennant's petulance, particularly "I don't want to go". There's just something about that which irritates me.
I don't really get why they bothered with the "he'll knock four times" prophecy. Why have the specials being 10 wandering around for ages knowing he's going to die, just to irradiate him so he that he can wander around for ages knowing he's going to die! Wouldn't it have been better to irradiate him at the beginning of the year, and have the specials being his visits to old companions?
The Time Lady that appears to Wilf and the Doctor in the episodes, I thought it could have been part of his family he left behind on Galifrey or lost in the Time War, a wife from his time on Galifrey, or maybe even Susan.
You think Tennant's exit is drawn out?
Capaldi: Hold my electric guitar
I love it more when the writers give more levity to The Doctor regenerating. In the olden days, if there was anything I didn't like at all was the bland mood towards regeneration. I get the 10th Doctor's fear of regenerating, because I always assumed regeneration is similar to reincarnating (aside from the next doctor retaining the past memories), with the consciousness dying.
"It's used as a replacement for character motivation."
[cough] Seekers [cough] The Last Wild [cough]
I when watched *cough* revisited this episode with my family before you reviewed it...
I was crying...Not for David Tennant's Long Goodbyes and others...But Wilfred Mott
, made me cry...and I kept on saying...
"Oh Wilf, Oh Wilf, OH WILF" over and over again!!! Bernard Cribbins
' performance Killed me, more than the all goodbyes in this final story because of what happened to Donna, I wanted what Wilf wanted his Granddaughter to remember again...
But mostly, when he tried to give the doctor the gun...and Bernard Cribbins' killed me!!! AGAIN!!!
I think we can safely assume quite a bit of time has passed and it wasn't "all of a sudden." It makes sense to me that Mickey would have joined her and Jack at Torchwood and we don't have any time or place context.
Actually Doctor encounters real-life political figures all the time, Queen Elizabeth for example.
David Tennant is an amazing actor and my favorite Doctor.
I was honestly more emotionally touched by "I could do so much more" than I was by "I don't want to go." The Tenth Doctor's final line comes out of nowhere, but the scene that causes him to regenerate in the first place has a better build up. The Doctor is trying so hard to talk himself out of doing this, but in the end he follows his kinder nature and saves Wilf. He didn't have to, and he really didn't want to die, but he did it anyway. The regeneration would've been more emotional if it happened right after the Doctor saved Wilf, like how Five regenerated right after giving his life to save Peri.
I truly enjoy these Overdue Reviews!
About the 'Joining the Doctor or Fleeing' comment: I'm not sure the marketing girl from Planet of the Oods is a good example of the situation. For what I remember, she did not just flee, she sided with the villains by yelling the protagonists' position, knowing (from her point of view) that she was effectively killing people.
I always assumed the Martha and Micky bit was set up in Torchwood or something because yeah, it does come out of absolutely nowhere.
Yeah... um... it's not. Unless it was done in media outside of the show.
I can tell you that yes Bernard Cribbins is a national treasure, his body of work is very extensive from minor parts in films, voice overs in childrens TV like the wombles, released a couple of singles and extensive TV appearances
I'd still like to know how that woman managed to project herself outside of the time lock before the Master does his thing with the white point star
Micky and Martha must of bonded over their unrequited love of Rose and the Doctor.
Rassillon is in the 5 doctors for a hot 3 minutes.
"Rage against the dying of the light." Why not? He could have done so much more! Who (Doctor) would want to go out with enough fire and force to damage a TARDIS? I've often wondered what it's like for a new Doctor to come in amid flame and destruction? Did it hurt? Does he or she remember a regeneration? When 9 changed to 10 did 10 recall it when he came in? If so then I understand why he didn't want to go.
"Regeneration has NEVER been treated as a death [before this episode]."
Except in the TV movie.
I only watched the movie once. Could you refresh my memory? From what I recall 7 was more freaking out that the hospital was going to destroy his ability to regenerate than he was that he was changing.
@@BadWolf739 The Eighth Doctor says "You've got to get me out of there before they kill me again!" after he pulls the heart probe out of his chest.
@@NitroIndigo He's not wrong. The hospital literally killed him. He was actually dead for an afternoon or so before the regeneration kicked in and even then it was kind of messed up. That's not really in reference to his thoughts on regeneration. His "death" was separate from his regeneration in the movie by about twelve hours.
You have to remember that the regeneration into the 11th doctor was going to be his last
@@djkhalid6014 You don't though because as of this being written 11 wasn't going to be his last form. The War Doctor was a retcon. You can't justify a poor creative decision in book one by saying "oh don't worry they explain it in book 75", the fact is that it sucks and is unexplained in book one.
I remember reading somewhere that the actors for Micky and Martha were a pair... That might be the a slightly better reason...
Trump... *facepalm* yeah. Well there are all the historical figures. Churchill and others. The "current" would be the same for the Doctor. It was a bit unusual for the show I guess... Moffat was also more forthcoming on the "resetting history to sth close to our current reality" part.
Love the Romana theory!!
When you were talking about Timothy Dalton I thought about Garry oldman in friends who played a WW1 actor and had a spitting (enunciation) fight with Joey
Rassilon was previously in the show - - in the 5 Doctors.
I think it's worth pointing out that this version of Rassilon actually fits in (and follows up) nicely with how Big Finish developed the character before New Who, particularly in the stories Neverland and Zagreus (if I'm not mistaken). I'm fairly convinced that the series' writers actually had those stories in mind, because the character's general attitude seems almost identical to me.
I despise literally everything about these two episodes. Even Wilf, who I usually love, is so weepy and hero-worshipping of the Doctor, I just can't stand it. The Doctor's whining and verbally abusive to Wilf actually ruins Tennant's entire run for me. Ugh, this is just the worst.