I love how much sense the Dreamlord as the Doctor's “dark side“ makes. He's actually doing something the Doctor would probably like to do but refrains from because it would be very dickish: Forcing Amy to choose between him and Rory by feigning the necessary circumstances for it. I think that at that point in the story, 11 would have liked Amy to get into a situation where she had to choose, but he wasn't asshole enough to fabricate it. The Dreamlord was - and yet even the Dreamlord never puts our protagonists into real danger (a fact I overlooked at first), just as the Doctor wouldn't (not even in his darker moments).
One line hits me hard in retrospect. "There's only one person in the universe that hates me this much." Or something to that effect. Or was it enough to do this? Eh it's a good episode I should just rewatch it to find out after work.
This was the episode when I realized Amy was my girl, her steel and determination at the end just hit me hard. All fear fell away and she made her choice and stuck to it, and it just made me love her the most. I still get chills when after Rory "dies" Amy asks the Doctor "Then what is the point of you?" it is just said with this perfect mix of venom and pure desperation. Also "let’s die looking like a Peruvian folk band." is classic. Actually thinking about it this episode is full of amazing quotes.
My favourite episode of Series 5. Amy is still my favourite companion of modern Who and this is one of her stand out episodes. No wonder Karen Gillan's career took off. (one of my Hollywood crushes I confess) Also really love the image of an iced up TARDIS above the cold star, so very picturesque.
Here's another thing to think about. The Dream Lord won. Yes, the villain of the story won. Think about it, just what was the Dream Lord's goal in this story? What was he trying to achieve? It's simple. His goal was for Amy to choose Rory, because that is what the Doctor wanted her to do. He may have been the Doctor's dark side, but he was still the Doctor in every way that mattered. He put the trio in two dream worlds, so they wouldn't be in any actual danger. That's the kind of length the Doctor would go to for his friends. I mean, the Doctor is a person who will manipulate his companions in order to protect them from a threat. The only difference between the Doctor and the Dream Lord, is that the Dream Lord is not bound by the Doctor's morality and can freely cross whatever lines he needs to, in order to achieve his goals. But, those goals are still the same goals as the Doctor, because in the end, he is the Doctor.
I love the scene where Rory dies and the Doctor reaches out his hands to comfort Amy and pulls back because he knows it’s not what she needs, and she probably won’t appreciate it, or take it from him. The absolute sadness on his face gets me emotional every time.
Along with The Greatest Show In The Galaxy, Amy's Choice is the most underrated story in the franchise. I love the idea of The Dream Lord, given how I loved The Valeyard and how both villains explore the true darker side of the Doctor. This episode also completely redeemed Amy for me, after her actions in Flesh and Stone. I love this story so much, and if Vincent and the Doctor didn't exist, this would be easily my favourite 11th Doctor story.
Greatest Show in the Galaxy is very meta, like that bit where the Harry Potter kid says the "show" isn't as good as it used to be. Which is exactly what people were saying about Who. 7 and Ace are awesome.
@@patrickt.6492 "Whizz Kid" is essentially that fan who realises the show isn't what it used to be. I know meta doesn't equal good, but damn, that story just does it wonderfully. Such an underrated gem.
I miss Matt Smith. I know he threw a lot of people but he would have to be my fave "new" Who. He really did capture that alien child/ancient and he did it from his first episode.
It's rare that there's a New Who episode I find to be underrated, but Amy's Choice is so up there, it's one of my favourite 11 episodes, such a fun, creative premise with a brilliant villain. Love it to death.
I like how the whole seed of this plot gets revisited in Angels Take Manhattan and Amy ends up leaving the show by making the same choice she did here, essentially in the same circumstance, and in the same way.
ive been watching you for years and you will probably never see this message or reply but man you have changed my life in so many ways and opened my mind up to so many new ways of viewing the world around me and critically analyzing situations around me that i am forever in your debt. thank you for staying motivated enough to come on camera with evey tihng going on in your life to bring us these amazing videos.
What's neat about this episode is that it manages to have both a clever plot and a big emotional impact. Lots of times (and not just in Doctor Who) an episode that manages one misses on the other.
Man, you took the thoughts right out of my brain when it comes to Doctor/Amy/Rory as a team. While none are my individual favorite, they are my favorite team.
Omg so many good lines to bring up, i can't really choose which is my favorite. There's "youre a planet" bit, the fake water break, the "peruvian folk band" comment and rory asking what it was that he did so he could use it later for emergencies. Not to mention the million little ponytail jokes. I caught the doctor saving people the 3rd time around and thought the same thing pretty much. If we couldn't get the same guy again it would be interesting to think about who could fill the role if the dream lord was brought back
10:25 I also believe that scene was included to give The Doctor a sufficient enough evidence to doubt the fictitious nature of the Leadworth reality as immediately after he saves those people, he gets to Amy and admits that he "thought the freezing TARDIS was real but now I'm not so sure."
Remember - the Doctor lies. I didn't buy into the 'evil pollen' that made manifest the 'Dream Lord'. Could it be that the character is just a part of the Doctor's persona that could pop up again, and the Doctor didn't want to admit this to Amy and Rory? Hmmm..
Even if he was telling the truth, theoretically all it would take is another malevolent psychic force to bring the Dream Lord out again. I'm hoping they'll get Toby Jones to play the Valeyard at some point.
@@HereComesPopoBawa I haven't seen the Valeyard's story in its entirety so I didn't know that. I only suggested him because he could be a way to bring the Dream Lord back somewhat. As far as I know they've both been described as incarnations of the Doctor's dark side, so if you take away the dreaming aspect (which would feel to much like a repeat if it were used again IMO) are they not essentially the same thing? Besides, I'm sure Toby Jones could bring some dignity to the role of the Valeyard - turn him into an actual threatening villain like the Dream Lord rather than a "blustering git" as you put it.
@@SarcyBoi41 - I guess on paper they can sound similar. But Valeyard was IMO really just an OTT cackling pantomime villain who was eee-vil for the sake of being eee-vil. It was one-dimensional and people loved him mostly just as a narrative curve ball. The baddie of the season was the Doctor all along? It was a stunt, not unlike getting John Hurt as the secret War Doctor - but not as good. Jayston did give him teeth though, and make him believably nasty. I suspect that the "blustering git" routine was there to contrast against Colin Baker's characterization and claims of the show's sometimes dark tone. A way to say "See? Colin is still the Doctor, and the moral compass of the show. This other guy is a REAL nasty blowhard." The whole _Trial of a Timelord_ concept evoked comparisons with the state of Who within BBC culture at that time, but never committed to making much sense on a meta-level either. I think that it's possible to rehabilitate or ruin practically ANY character. But it goes a lot better when there's a strong narrative reason for the character to be there and embody their qualities.
@@HereComesPopoBawa you're right. Sounds like if they were to bring Toby Jones back as a new Valeyard, they'd need to completely reinvent the character and give him an actual reason for his existence i.e. a proper origin story. Maybe even make him a completely separate character who takes up the same name due to their similar nature. I wonder if you're right that any character can be redeemed. Should we petition Chris Chibnall to bring back the Abzorbaloff to find out?
How about that last moment where The Doctor sees the Dreamlord's face in his reflection in the console and is freaked out? It makes him not want to look at 'himself' for a bit. Brilliant!
Love Amy’s choice and this trio is my favorite TARDIS crew in new and old who. Everyone was on their game during their run from the writers to the performers to the music, just so good.
Probably one of my favourite Matt Smith era episodes. Dream Lord was incredible and the story was really good and intriguing. Wish we had got more like this. Great review as always :)
This is my favorite episode cause the concept is so good and makes u wonder which is is the real reality right up until the end and it shows for the first time that no matter what Amy will always pick Roy cause to her life isn't worth living without him as we see in sacrifices she makes later on in the show
This is such a sweet episode. And it also makes there ending make so much more sense. River knows shes going to go because shes already made that choice once.
I love this episode because again it shows us the relationship between these three people and shows us that yes Amy has been wavering and feeling that need for more we know where her heart truly lies. She didnt run away with the Doctor because she doesn't love Rory she ran away for the fun and adventure of it all. Her heart truly belongs to Rory. The fact that in 3 very Amy and Rory centric episodes Amy sacrifices herself to be with Rory shows that she does truly love him deeply even though Rory has always doubted it. This episode she goes "if this is the real world world then I dont want it, I dont want it." In The Girl Who Waited young Amy convinces old Amy to help Rory and then old Amy sacrifices herself so that young amy can be happy and live her years with Rory and the conversation where they have their hands in the TARDIS door always chokes me up. Then in Angel's Take Manhattan Amy goes "together or not at all" because if that's the moment they died she wants to die in Rory's arms. And then at the Graveyard when he get zapped by the Angel Amy knew. She knew what she wanted to do. In that moment she didnt care about the Doctor or even River it was all about her and Rory. She wanted to be with him even if it meant she is trapped in the past forever. Like you said those moment are beautiful and their acting is stellar and when we get these episodes that centre around Amy and Rory and their relationship I really like them.
One thing I always liked about this episode: you get very early on the idea that the title of this episode is about Amy choosing who she wants to be with, Rory or the Doctor. As such, the Tardis represents the Doctor, while Upper Leadworth represents Rory. Yet, in the end, when Amy makes that choice, she chooses the Tardis, BECAUSE Rory is still alive there.
When it first aired my family and I were arguing what we thought was the real reality, and then neither was real. A good twist but also a house full of angry scousers...
Like so many other episodes, I seriously need to give this one a rewatch. I quite enjoy the Dream Lord. I find him a much more compelling and complex character than the Valeyard and Toby Jones really sells it. I feel the same as you about how heart wrenching/warming Amy's ultimate decision was, tears were pricking the corners of my eyes just from thinking about it. And the three of them work so well together - there's only one major misstep in their arc as far as I'm concerned, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
What was great about this episode was that it was a mystery to the audience on first viewing which was reality so you were concerned for the character's wellbeing in both threads
One thing--can I go kinda dark for a moment? One thing about the Dream Lord is that there's a certain moment with him that a.) sheds a little uncomfortable meta-light on something about the show that we're jut not supposed to bring up, and b.) might give us a little more insight into that...unfortunate bit at the end of "Flesh and Stone". What I'm referring to is the moment when he and Amy are alone in the TARDIS, and he's starting in with the psychological attacks again, and one of the things he says is something like "After all, he left you here...alone with me...*disappears for a second and reappears in an open red bathrobe*...*anything* could happen." In other words, going a little "I-have-you-now-my-pretty" on the companion, like the villains sometimes do. But *then* you find out that he's a manifestation of The Doctor's dark side, and it's like, wait, does that mean that The Doctor is maybe attracted to Amy? And furthermore, sees this attraction as part of his dark side? I mean, for most of the show's history, the Doctor has been picking up attractive young women to live with him in his home, with it frequently just being the two of them. We're just meant to accept that he doesn't view them in *that* way, except for the one time he did, but that was pretty clearly consensual so it was okay...until it ended in tragedy. And a couple of episodes ago, Amy came onto him pretty strong. At the time, we figured that him pushing her away probably meant that he...wasn't into it, but if, as this moment with the Dream Lord suggests, he maybe kinda *is* into her, that puts things in a different light. Is he just holding back because he doesn't want to ruin her pre-existing relationship like he did with Rose and Mickey? Or is he perhaps aware of the possible troubling implications of he method of making friends. Despite having regenerated into the face of a 26-year-old, does he view himself as a dirty old man, a predator waiting to happen who needs to keep himself in check?
I have to agree with you. Creepy, funny, highly original. It's also a gentle parody on Doctor Who itself (ie, the alien monsters are pensioners some of whom walk with zimmer frames!) but that never gets in the way of how great the episode is. It's also - I think - another take by author Simon Nye on the horrors of living in the countryside. He wrote a now largely forgotten but brilliant sitcom called 'How do you want me?' which is about just that. Likewise, I think 'Amy's choice' is also a bit neglected and underrated and that's a crime.
I agree, Amy's Choice is a great episode. It is a fun rewatch every time.. The dynamics of each character make the entire episode. And Toby Jones as the Dream Lord is supurb. I would love to see the dream lord come back in some form.
Superb episode. Great premise and Rory and Amy are such well drawn characters. The doctor is brilliant and Toby Jones dream Lord is stunning. We do seriously need him back. Love it. Best doctor, best companion, best team.
I have a theory that the eknodines are representations of Amy's fear of growing old and dying in leadworth made manifest, whilst the cold star is a representation of Rory's fear of dying in the cold, dark vacuum of space away from the cosy familiarity of the village.
I actually have a theory that the Doctor at some point will have the Dreamlord imprinted into a clone/ganger/robot and that’s who ends up testifying against the 6th Doctor. An artificial being endowed with all of the Doctor’s worst qualities and attributes.
11, Amy, and Rory, are why the 'fam' in S11, doesn't quite work. We already had a 'fam', and it was perfect. It's nearly impossible to compete with that.
For a story that's supposedly underappreciated, it sure does get a lot of appreciation. Also, is it just me or is this episode nowhere near as underrated as people claim it is? Some say it's as underrated as Greatest Show, but I don't see it. I feel like it's received fairly well.
I love this episode, and there are many many good things about it, truly, but there's this huge problem for me at the end, let's be real for a moment. Amy makes her choice - that she can't live in a world without Rory, that's the point of the story here. But she does it in such a terrible way - she's literally in labor with a full-term baby that for all she knows, and the episode purposefully drives to get this point across, COULD BE the real world and therefore a REAL baby that Amy is in labor with. Rory's dying wish and words to her are to take care of that baby. But she decides in that moment after he dies that she would rather die, and therefore kill her baby as well. The Doctor also goes along with this decision she's made in a moment of shock and trauma that she's going through after witnessing the death of her loved one. I'm sorry but, (as Moffat loves to write several times per episode) -"WHAT?"- ....??? This really really bothered me. I think the part that made it worse was that not only was Amy pregnant but also VERY pregnant and IN labor. I think this was a poor decision writing wise because it undermines Rory's dying wish, Amy's general decision making, the DOCTOR'S general decision making, the gravity of the situation with the pregnancy even being part of the plot. Like, if she was just going to kill herself in the end even though she was in labor, why have the pregnancy be part of plot at all..? Clearly it did not truly add any weight to her decision to die in that world. What made her decision was Rory. When they wake up in the real world and Rory and Amy have a very nice kiss, I couldn't help but wonder... Rory didn't think "Wait hold on, if I died, and you were in labor, you'd just off yourself..!?!??!" But...... sigh. Okay rant over. lol
I always felt that Amy and Rory's arc was rushed in S5. I wish we saw more from them after Vampires before focring Amy to make this choice. And I especially wish we saw more from them after this before they kill him off again. I guess I felt he was more plot device to forward Amy's story rather than having his own story arc to follow - never gets a chance to stand on his own.
Hmm. This could be worth a re-watch. I kind of hated it the first time, because while the overall concept was cool, it felt like it was further building up the "could the Doctor and Amy be a thing?" question (where I'm like: No. They are fun together but they don't have that kind of chemistry. Please stop it.) with this forced choice. Also...what is the deal with killing off Rory repeatedly? Here it was OK and had impact, but it started to feel like that running South Park joke about Kenny.
I really liked the premise of this episode. It start wells, but I have a problem with the ending that ruins it for me. Making it so that both of the 'realities' are dreams so that there was never any danger in the first place is a bit too much of a deus ex machina for me.
For me, this is the only real chance to see what characters do after they probably leave the TARDIS in one half of the episode. Sure we have characters like Martha and Sarah Jane, but this is the definitive what if as this shows people who have truly moved on from the Doctor and got on with the mundane lives.
I gotta say, I really disagree with this take on Amy's Choice, and especially the choice that Amy makes - because she isn't making this choice out of context, in a situation where she is truly free to choose either way. You described it as "when the chips are down, not making the choice she thinks she *should* make" but to me it reads exactly the opposite way - Rory dies, and Amy blames herself, and she can't live in that world. It's not necessarily a choice anyone is telling her to make *in that instant*, but Rory has spent the entire episode leading up to that invalidating the TARDIS reality when they're there and pushing the Leadworth reality when they're in Leadworth. He wants her to settle down, "grow up some time", and he has made it very clear from the beginning that Amy delaying the wedding is a personal betrayal to him. I'm not sure what exactly the intention with Amy's Choice was - if they wanted the audience to get that Amy chooses Rory no matter what, or if they wanted the audience to feel like Amy could choose both realities (which, by revealing that they're both dreams, the narrative effectively does for her) - but to me it's always read as a desperate, guilt-ridden moment where Amy feels completely alone. I do also find it very interesting that, while obviously Rory thinks Leadworth is real and the Doctor thinks the TARDIS is, Amy only questions her choices in Leadworth. She says "it's not really me, is it?" when trying to remember why they would ever have settled down there - so while the dreams both "feel real" to her wherever she is, she's far more comfortable with her choices on the TARDIS. And stay in Leadworth with a baby she is at best ambivalent about having, living with the guilt of causing Rory's death *and* with the inevitable drifting apart of her relationship with the Doctor... I think it's that reality that she can't live with, because she couldn't bear it. And the choice at the end, ultimately, becomes a very, very dark one when you consider Amy as a character with a history of mental illness. To be clear I think it is a fascinating episode with some of the strongest performances in Series 5 and there is a LOT to love about it! I've just never been quite convinced that the ending was this big sweeping romantic resolution they seemed determined to frame it as. And considering they kept up the Doctor-Rory bait-and-switch throughout AT LEAST the first half of Series 6, and played with Amy feeling torn/guilty/obligated to make certain choices right up to her very last scene... It's certainly never read as a clean and simple "choice" to resolve the situation.
I watched a video by 'VerilyBitchie' about Moffats sexism hidden behind 'strong woman' tropes like Amy and River Song. It was interesting and well argued by I felt Amy's character esp. Was less 1 dimensional than suggested. I would be interested in your reaction to her video. Have you seen it?
Check out the detectorists. It stars the amazing Toby Jones, it's beautifully written and performed -- sparse, droll, understated and believable. You will lovwe really enjoy this as Toby Jones is so good in this.
Thanks, I had heard of Detectorists, but subsequently forgotten about it. Jones is also great as the lead in the film _Berberian Sound Studio,_ a sound engineer for a giallo movie which is a real treat for those like me who love Jones, AND movie sound, AND giallo.
I’m gonna be perfectly honest I don’t really like this episode it’s too complicated and I don’t really understand it and it’s kinda boring I will admit tho it’s a good plot twist at the end great videos btw love them and might I say ur killing that outfit it suits you so much x
The Dream Lord could be brought back, but it would have to be a different actor, and I don't see the point of doing that, Toby Jones IS the Dream Lord.
He was _Eleven's_ Dream Lord. But I'm sure there are (at least) as many possible faces for the Dream Lord as there are for the Doctor. Each incarnation would have a different shadow. I think it could be... _really_ interesting to try that with a newer Doctor, provided they could find an actor/actress whose strengths would suit the role of that Doctor's shadow (which isn't impossible). What would Thirteen's Dream Lady/Lord look like? Twelve's? Fourteen's (whoever they are)...?
@@AstraIVagabond I'd like to see the character return but it's probably best if it doesn't. Can't see how it could be done without telling the same story again.
I fucking hate this episode. It was amazing until Rory died. His final words: look after our baby. Then Amy kills their baby and herself out of grief by committing suicide. Seriously, being a single mum isn't that bad, she shouldn't have killed herself and her baby just because her partner died...
Doctor who amy cholse is one best epiosede ever the drema lord is one of the best vailen i hopd jodie face him and the shdow in the tardis colnesoe his face apprs dos at mean he sttl aive and i gert actor tody johes to play him
I love how much sense the Dreamlord as the Doctor's “dark side“ makes. He's actually doing something the Doctor would probably like to do but refrains from because it would be very dickish: Forcing Amy to choose between him and Rory by feigning the necessary circumstances for it. I think that at that point in the story, 11 would have liked Amy to get into a situation where she had to choose, but he wasn't asshole enough to fabricate it. The Dreamlord was - and yet even the Dreamlord never puts our protagonists into real danger (a fact I overlooked at first), just as the Doctor wouldn't (not even in his darker moments).
The Doctor saving people in a reality he doesn't believe is real, just because it could be. That is the true measure of the Doctor's heroic nature
Shades of Castrovalva?
@@andrewbowman4611 I'm not really caught up on classic yet, but I'm getting there
One line hits me hard in retrospect. "There's only one person in the universe that hates me this much." Or something to that effect. Or was it enough to do this? Eh it's a good episode I should just rewatch it to find out after work.
This was the episode when I realized Amy was my girl, her steel and determination at the end just hit me hard. All fear fell away and she made her choice and stuck to it, and it just made me love her the most. I still get chills when after Rory "dies" Amy asks the Doctor "Then what is the point of you?" it is just said with this perfect mix of venom and pure desperation. Also "let’s die looking like a Peruvian folk band." is classic. Actually thinking about it this episode is full of amazing quotes.
My favourite episode of Series 5. Amy is still my favourite companion of modern Who and this is one of her stand out episodes. No wonder Karen Gillan's career took off. (one of my Hollywood crushes I confess)
Also really love the image of an iced up TARDIS above the cold star, so very picturesque.
Here's another thing to think about. The Dream Lord won. Yes, the villain of the story won. Think about it, just what was the Dream Lord's goal in this story? What was he trying to achieve? It's simple. His goal was for Amy to choose Rory, because that is what the Doctor wanted her to do. He may have been the Doctor's dark side, but he was still the Doctor in every way that mattered. He put the trio in two dream worlds, so they wouldn't be in any actual danger. That's the kind of length the Doctor would go to for his friends. I mean, the Doctor is a person who will manipulate his companions in order to protect them from a threat. The only difference between the Doctor and the Dream Lord, is that the Dream Lord is not bound by the Doctor's morality and can freely cross whatever lines he needs to, in order to achieve his goals. But, those goals are still the same goals as the Doctor, because in the end, he is the Doctor.
I love the scene where Rory dies and the Doctor reaches out his hands to comfort Amy and pulls back because he knows it’s not what she needs, and she probably won’t appreciate it, or take it from him. The absolute sadness on his face gets me emotional every time.
Along with The Greatest Show In The Galaxy, Amy's Choice is the most underrated story in the franchise. I love the idea of The Dream Lord, given how I loved The Valeyard and how both villains explore the true darker side of the Doctor. This episode also completely redeemed Amy for me, after her actions in Flesh and Stone. I love this story so much, and if Vincent and the Doctor didn't exist, this would be easily my favourite 11th Doctor story.
I love the greatest show in the galaxy!
Just agree with this comment so much.
100% agree on all fronts.
Greatest Show in the Galaxy is very meta, like that bit where the Harry Potter kid says the "show" isn't as good as it used to be. Which is exactly what people were saying about Who. 7 and Ace are awesome.
@@patrickt.6492 "Whizz Kid" is essentially that fan who realises the show isn't what it used to be. I know meta doesn't equal good, but damn, that story just does it wonderfully. Such an underrated gem.
Toby Jones is such a brilliant actor. He isn't in enough stuff IMHO.
He’s brilliant in the Detectorists
I miss Matt Smith. I know he threw a lot of people but he would have to be my fave "new" Who. He really did capture that alien child/ancient and he did it from his first episode.
It's rare that there's a New Who episode I find to be underrated, but Amy's Choice is so up there, it's one of my favourite 11 episodes, such a fun, creative premise with a brilliant villain. Love it to death.
I like how the whole seed of this plot gets revisited in Angels Take Manhattan and Amy ends up leaving the show by making the same choice she did here, essentially in the same circumstance, and in the same way.
If you had any more tawdry quirks, you could open up a tawdry quirk shop 😄.
ive been watching you for years and you will probably never see this message or reply but man you have changed my life in so many ways and opened my mind up to so many new ways of viewing the world around me and critically analyzing situations around me that i am forever in your debt. thank you for staying motivated enough to come on camera with evey tihng going on in your life to bring us these amazing videos.
This was actually the first episode of Doctor Who I ever watched. So this is the one that drew me in.
KJ M that's the same for me this was the first episode I ever saw i watched it on demand and loved it
@@kevin10001 lucky. My one was the new York dalek episode. I was young so it was kind of scary.
What's neat about this episode is that it manages to have both a clever plot and a big emotional impact. Lots of times (and not just in Doctor Who) an episode that manages one misses on the other.
Man, you took the thoughts right out of my brain when it comes to Doctor/Amy/Rory as a team. While none are my individual favorite, they are my favorite team.
Omg so many good lines to bring up, i can't really choose which is my favorite. There's "youre a planet" bit, the fake water break, the "peruvian folk band" comment and rory asking what it was that he did so he could use it later for emergencies. Not to mention the million little ponytail jokes.
I caught the doctor saving people the 3rd time around and thought the same thing pretty much. If we couldn't get the same guy again it would be interesting to think about who could fill the role if the dream lord was brought back
10:25 I also believe that scene was included to give The Doctor a sufficient enough evidence to doubt the fictitious nature of the Leadworth reality as immediately after he saves those people, he gets to Amy and admits that he "thought the freezing TARDIS was real but now I'm not so sure."
This is probably my favourite series 5 episode. I love the way it keeps switching between the two realitys
Remember - the Doctor lies. I didn't buy into the 'evil pollen' that made manifest the 'Dream Lord'. Could it be that the character is just a part of the Doctor's persona that could pop up again, and the Doctor didn't want to admit this to Amy and Rory? Hmmm..
Even if he was telling the truth, theoretically all it would take is another malevolent psychic force to bring the Dream Lord out again. I'm hoping they'll get Toby Jones to play the Valeyard at some point.
@@SarcyBoi41 - I would watch that, but IMO Dream Lord was far more interesting than the Valeyard. The latter was IMO just a blustering git.
@@HereComesPopoBawa I haven't seen the Valeyard's story in its entirety so I didn't know that. I only suggested him because he could be a way to bring the Dream Lord back somewhat. As far as I know they've both been described as incarnations of the Doctor's dark side, so if you take away the dreaming aspect (which would feel to much like a repeat if it were used again IMO) are they not essentially the same thing?
Besides, I'm sure Toby Jones could bring some dignity to the role of the Valeyard - turn him into an actual threatening villain like the Dream Lord rather than a "blustering git" as you put it.
@@SarcyBoi41 - I guess on paper they can sound similar. But Valeyard was IMO really just an OTT cackling pantomime villain who was eee-vil for the sake of being eee-vil. It was one-dimensional and people loved him mostly just as a narrative curve ball. The baddie of the season was the Doctor all along? It was a stunt, not unlike getting John Hurt as the secret War Doctor - but not as good. Jayston did give him teeth though, and make him believably nasty.
I suspect that the "blustering git" routine was there to contrast against Colin Baker's characterization and claims of the show's sometimes dark tone. A way to say "See? Colin is still the Doctor, and the moral compass of the show. This other guy is a REAL nasty blowhard." The whole _Trial of a Timelord_ concept evoked comparisons with the state of Who within BBC culture at that time, but never committed to making much sense on a meta-level either.
I think that it's possible to rehabilitate or ruin practically ANY character. But it goes a lot better when there's a strong narrative reason for the character to be there and embody their qualities.
@@HereComesPopoBawa you're right. Sounds like if they were to bring Toby Jones back as a new Valeyard, they'd need to completely reinvent the character and give him an actual reason for his existence i.e. a proper origin story. Maybe even make him a completely separate character who takes up the same name due to their similar nature.
I wonder if you're right that any character can be redeemed. Should we petition Chris Chibnall to bring back the Abzorbaloff to find out?
How about that last moment where The Doctor sees the Dreamlord's face in his reflection in the console and is freaked out? It makes him not want to look at 'himself' for a bit. Brilliant!
Love Amy’s choice and this trio is my favorite TARDIS crew in new and old who. Everyone was on their game during their run from the writers to the performers to the music, just so good.
This is actually my favorite episode of the new/reboot series. So many layers of awesomeness and so underrated.
Probably one of my favourite Matt Smith era episodes. Dream Lord was incredible and the story was really good and intriguing. Wish we had got more like this. Great review as always :)
This is my favorite episode cause the concept is so good and makes u wonder which is is the real reality right up until the end and it shows for the first time that no matter what Amy will always pick Roy cause to her life isn't worth living without him as we see in sacrifices she makes later on in the show
Funny enough I was never a Matt Smith fan but him with the Ponds made it work for me.
Yeah, his dynamic with them was great. Unlike with Clara, which felt weird and sometimes even creepy.
This episode is so underrated! It's not fair because it's so good!
This is such a sweet episode. And it also makes there ending make so much more sense. River knows shes going to go because shes already made that choice once.
I wasn't a super big fan of the Dream Lord. But I did enjoy the Peruvian folk band. And the choice Amy had to make.
I love this episode because again it shows us the relationship between these three people and shows us that yes Amy has been wavering and feeling that need for more we know where her heart truly lies. She didnt run away with the Doctor because she doesn't love Rory she ran away for the fun and adventure of it all. Her heart truly belongs to Rory. The fact that in 3 very Amy and Rory centric episodes Amy sacrifices herself to be with Rory shows that she does truly love him deeply even though Rory has always doubted it. This episode she goes "if this is the real world world then I dont want it, I dont want it." In The Girl Who Waited young Amy convinces old Amy to help Rory and then old Amy sacrifices herself so that young amy can be happy and live her years with Rory and the conversation where they have their hands in the TARDIS door always chokes me up. Then in Angel's Take Manhattan Amy goes "together or not at all" because if that's the moment they died she wants to die in Rory's arms. And then at the Graveyard when he get zapped by the Angel Amy knew. She knew what she wanted to do. In that moment she didnt care about the Doctor or even River it was all about her and Rory. She wanted to be with him even if it meant she is trapped in the past forever. Like you said those moment are beautiful and their acting is stellar and when we get these episodes that centre around Amy and Rory and their relationship I really like them.
One of Karen Gillen's BEST performances here for sure ....
I didn't notice that until I rewatched it either. It's things like that that are why Matt is my favourite Doctor.
One thing I always liked about this episode: you get very early on the idea that the title of this episode is about Amy choosing who she wants to be with, Rory or the Doctor. As such, the Tardis represents the Doctor, while Upper Leadworth represents Rory. Yet, in the end, when Amy makes that choice, she chooses the Tardis, BECAUSE Rory is still alive there.
When it first aired my family and I were arguing what we thought was the real reality, and then neither was real. A good twist but also a house full of angry scousers...
I really love this episode. One of my all time favs
I love the concept and characters, I just find the lead worth setting to be really dull, but to be fair it was appropriate for the old people aliens
One of my absolute favs. Amy and Rory and her choice. ♥️♥️♥️
Like so many other episodes, I seriously need to give this one a rewatch. I quite enjoy the Dream Lord. I find him a much more compelling and complex character than the Valeyard and Toby Jones really sells it. I feel the same as you about how heart wrenching/warming Amy's ultimate decision was, tears were pricking the corners of my eyes just from thinking about it. And the three of them work so well together - there's only one major misstep in their arc as far as I'm concerned, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
What was great about this episode was that it was a mystery to the audience on first viewing which was reality so you were concerned for the character's wellbeing in both threads
Amy follows Rory 'into death' here just like she does in the end in Manhattan using the Weeping Angel to be with her beloved Rory.
I love this episode
@@auskipper one of the best, up there with The Doctor's Wife & The God Complex.
I hate that Rory is 'promoted' to a doctor. Nurses aren't junior doctors! Nurses are nurses! Doctors are doctors! Both are important!
If it was reality I'd agree. But dream logic, so I let it pass.
@@CouncilofGeeks Sure, but the writers wrote it.
One thing--can I go kinda dark for a moment? One thing about the Dream Lord is that there's a certain moment with him that a.) sheds a little uncomfortable meta-light on something about the show that we're jut not supposed to bring up, and b.) might give us a little more insight into that...unfortunate bit at the end of "Flesh and Stone".
What I'm referring to is the moment when he and Amy are alone in the TARDIS, and he's starting in with the psychological attacks again, and one of the things he says is something like "After all, he left you here...alone with me...*disappears for a second and reappears in an open red bathrobe*...*anything* could happen." In other words, going a little "I-have-you-now-my-pretty" on the companion, like the villains sometimes do. But *then* you find out that he's a manifestation of The Doctor's dark side, and it's like, wait, does that mean that The Doctor is maybe attracted to Amy? And furthermore, sees this attraction as part of his dark side? I mean, for most of the show's history, the Doctor has been picking up attractive young women to live with him in his home, with it frequently just being the two of them. We're just meant to accept that he doesn't view them in *that* way, except for the one time he did, but that was pretty clearly consensual so it was okay...until it ended in tragedy. And a couple of episodes ago, Amy came onto him pretty strong. At the time, we figured that him pushing her away probably meant that he...wasn't into it, but if, as this moment with the Dream Lord suggests, he maybe kinda *is* into her, that puts things in a different light. Is he just holding back because he doesn't want to ruin her pre-existing relationship like he did with Rose and Mickey? Or is he perhaps aware of the possible troubling implications of he method of making friends. Despite having regenerated into the face of a 26-year-old, does he view himself as a dirty old man, a predator waiting to happen who needs to keep himself in check?
I have to agree with you. Creepy, funny, highly original. It's also a gentle parody on Doctor Who itself (ie, the alien monsters are pensioners some of whom walk with zimmer frames!) but that never gets in the way of how great the episode is. It's also - I think - another take by author Simon Nye on the horrors of living in the countryside. He wrote a now largely forgotten but brilliant sitcom called 'How do you want me?' which is about just that. Likewise, I think 'Amy's choice' is also a bit neglected and underrated and that's a crime.
Ooooh, this makes me so excited for when you reach my personal favorite episode: Vincent. :D
The Dreamlord could be played by a past doctor, like Sylvester McCoy.
I think that might be too much of a give away
I was hoping they might go the other way, and cast Toby Jones as the Doctor someday. I think he would be so good in the role.
Toby jones is just amazing for this role.
I agree, Amy's Choice is a great episode. It is a fun rewatch every time.. The dynamics of each character make the entire episode.
And Toby Jones as the Dream Lord is supurb. I would love to see the dream lord come back in some form.
Superb episode. Great premise and Rory and Amy are such well drawn characters. The doctor is brilliant and Toby Jones dream Lord is stunning. We do seriously need him back.
Love it. Best doctor, best companion, best team.
Great video. Have you considered reviewing Big Finish's David Warner Dr Who incarnation? I'd be really interested to hear your opinion.
Haven't watched in a while and it is the first time I see you in 11 cosplay. Wow that looks good on you!
I loved the Dreamlord's unsettling implication that the Doctor prefers 'the company of the young'...
It is a little odd that a 900+year old man prefers companions in their 20s
I have a theory that the eknodines are representations of Amy's fear of growing old and dying in leadworth made manifest, whilst the cold star is a representation of Rory's fear of dying in the cold, dark vacuum of space away from the cosy familiarity of the village.
I actually have a theory that the Doctor at some point will have the Dreamlord imprinted into a clone/ganger/robot and that’s who ends up testifying against the 6th Doctor. An artificial being endowed with all of the Doctor’s worst qualities and attributes.
11, Amy, and Rory, are why the 'fam' in S11, doesn't quite work. We already had a 'fam', and it was perfect. It's nearly impossible to compete with that.
For a story that's supposedly underappreciated, it sure does get a lot of appreciation. Also, is it just me or is this episode nowhere near as underrated as people claim it is? Some say it's as underrated as Greatest Show, but I don't see it. I feel like it's received fairly well.
Absolutely fantastic Story❤️
Have you seen Wayward Pines? If not, I think you should give it a watch. The Dream Doctor actor plays a character that gives me the same kind of vibe
My favorite Doctor Who shipping episode. Full stop.
This episode is may be my favorite in series five. I loved the dreamlord.
I love this episode, and there are many many good things about it, truly, but there's this huge problem for me at the end, let's be real for a moment. Amy makes her choice - that she can't live in a world without Rory, that's the point of the story here. But she does it in such a terrible way - she's literally in labor with a full-term baby that for all she knows, and the episode purposefully drives to get this point across, COULD BE the real world and therefore a REAL baby that Amy is in labor with. Rory's dying wish and words to her are to take care of that baby. But she decides in that moment after he dies that she would rather die, and therefore kill her baby as well. The Doctor also goes along with this decision she's made in a moment of shock and trauma that she's going through after witnessing the death of her loved one. I'm sorry but, (as Moffat loves to write several times per episode) -"WHAT?"- ....??? This really really bothered me. I think the part that made it worse was that not only was Amy pregnant but also VERY pregnant and IN labor. I think this was a poor decision writing wise because it undermines Rory's dying wish, Amy's general decision making, the DOCTOR'S general decision making, the gravity of the situation with the pregnancy even being part of the plot. Like, if she was just going to kill herself in the end even though she was in labor, why have the pregnancy be part of plot at all..? Clearly it did not truly add any weight to her decision to die in that world. What made her decision was Rory. When they wake up in the real world and Rory and Amy have a very nice kiss, I couldn't help but wonder... Rory didn't think "Wait hold on, if I died, and you were in labor, you'd just off yourself..!?!??!" But...... sigh. Okay rant over. lol
I always felt that Amy and Rory's arc was rushed in S5. I wish we saw more from them after Vampires before focring Amy to make this choice. And I especially wish we saw more from them after this before they kill him off again. I guess I felt he was more plot device to forward Amy's story rather than having his own story arc to follow - never gets a chance to stand on his own.
I'm not a huge 11th Dr fan either, but Dr, Amy and Rory are the best team since Dr4, Sarah and Harry
Hmm. This could be worth a re-watch. I kind of hated it the first time, because while the overall concept was cool, it felt like it was further building up the "could the Doctor and Amy be a thing?" question (where I'm like: No. They are fun together but they don't have that kind of chemistry. Please stop it.) with this forced choice. Also...what is the deal with killing off Rory repeatedly? Here it was OK and had impact, but it started to feel like that running South Park joke about Kenny.
I really liked the premise of this episode. It start wells, but I have a problem with the ending that ruins it for me. Making it so that both of the 'realities' are dreams so that there was never any danger in the first place is a bit too much of a deus ex machina for me.
For me, this is the only real chance to see what characters do after they probably leave the TARDIS in one half of the episode. Sure we have characters like Martha and Sarah Jane, but this is the definitive what if as this shows people who have truly moved on from the Doctor and got on with the mundane lives.
I gotta say, I really disagree with this take on Amy's Choice, and especially the choice that Amy makes - because she isn't making this choice out of context, in a situation where she is truly free to choose either way. You described it as "when the chips are down, not making the choice she thinks she *should* make" but to me it reads exactly the opposite way - Rory dies, and Amy blames herself, and she can't live in that world.
It's not necessarily a choice anyone is telling her to make *in that instant*, but Rory has spent the entire episode leading up to that invalidating the TARDIS reality when they're there and pushing the Leadworth reality when they're in Leadworth. He wants her to settle down, "grow up some time", and he has made it very clear from the beginning that Amy delaying the wedding is a personal betrayal to him. I'm not sure what exactly the intention with Amy's Choice was - if they wanted the audience to get that Amy chooses Rory no matter what, or if they wanted the audience to feel like Amy could choose both realities (which, by revealing that they're both dreams, the narrative effectively does for her) - but to me it's always read as a desperate, guilt-ridden moment where Amy feels completely alone.
I do also find it very interesting that, while obviously Rory thinks Leadworth is real and the Doctor thinks the TARDIS is, Amy only questions her choices in Leadworth. She says "it's not really me, is it?" when trying to remember why they would ever have settled down there - so while the dreams both "feel real" to her wherever she is, she's far more comfortable with her choices on the TARDIS. And stay in Leadworth with a baby she is at best ambivalent about having, living with the guilt of causing Rory's death *and* with the inevitable drifting apart of her relationship with the Doctor... I think it's that reality that she can't live with, because she couldn't bear it. And the choice at the end, ultimately, becomes a very, very dark one when you consider Amy as a character with a history of mental illness.
To be clear I think it is a fascinating episode with some of the strongest performances in Series 5 and there is a LOT to love about it! I've just never been quite convinced that the ending was this big sweeping romantic resolution they seemed determined to frame it as. And considering they kept up the Doctor-Rory bait-and-switch throughout AT LEAST the first half of Series 6, and played with Amy feeling torn/guilty/obligated to make certain choices right up to her very last scene... It's certainly never read as a clean and simple "choice" to resolve the situation.
I watched a video by 'VerilyBitchie' about Moffats sexism hidden behind 'strong woman' tropes like Amy and River Song. It was interesting and well argued by I felt Amy's character esp. Was less 1 dimensional than suggested. I would be interested in your reaction to her video. Have you seen it?
Every once in a while it's as though hearing someone else's voice say what's in my head :P
Check out the detectorists. It stars the amazing Toby Jones, it's beautifully written and performed -- sparse, droll, understated and believable. You will lovwe really enjoy this as Toby Jones is so good in this.
I loved him in the mist.
Thanks, I had heard of Detectorists, but subsequently forgotten about it. Jones is also great as the lead in the film _Berberian Sound Studio,_ a sound engineer for a giallo movie which is a real treat for those like me who love Jones, AND movie sound, AND giallo.
I thought your fav *was* Eleven. Which one is it?
I’m gonna be perfectly honest I don’t really like this episode it’s too complicated and I don’t really understand it and it’s kinda boring I will admit tho it’s a good plot twist at the end great videos btw love them and might I say ur killing that outfit it suits you so much x
There's one or two too many flips between worlds before Toby is introduced for me. Bit of a slow start, but otherwise great.
if they did bring back Dream Lord, would it be played by same actor? or different actor/actress since its 13/Jodie
The Dream Lord could be brought back, but it would have to be a different actor, and I don't see the point of doing that, Toby Jones IS the Dream Lord.
He was _Eleven's_ Dream Lord. But I'm sure there are (at least) as many possible faces for the Dream Lord as there are for the Doctor. Each incarnation would have a different shadow. I think it could be... _really_ interesting to try that with a newer Doctor, provided they could find an actor/actress whose strengths would suit the role of that Doctor's shadow (which isn't impossible). What would Thirteen's Dream Lady/Lord look like? Twelve's? Fourteen's (whoever they are)...?
@@AstraIVagabond I'd like to see the character return but it's probably best if it doesn't. Can't see how it could be done without telling the same story again.
I fucking hate this episode. It was amazing until Rory died. His final words: look after our baby. Then Amy kills their baby and herself out of grief by committing suicide. Seriously, being a single mum isn't that bad, she shouldn't have killed herself and her baby just because her partner died...
Doctor who amy cholse is one best epiosede ever the drema lord is one of the best vailen i hopd jodie face him and the shdow in the tardis colnesoe his face apprs dos at mean he sttl aive and i gert actor tody johes to play him
I hate this episode. A trite childish villain, an unfunny comedy and an obvious twist. This was the worst episode in season 5.