Short & Thick...Can It Do The Trick? Federal HST .45 ACP Self-Defense AMMO Test!
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- How good is HST from a short barrel? Is it still one of the best options around? Heavy clothing ballistic gel test using a Glock 30!
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What I keep in mind is that, expansion or not, getting shot with a 230gr lump of lead and copper will still fuck up your day.
Lol right, no one ever said “at least it wasnt hollow point”
true.. but the 45 is outdated. 9mm +P has higher velocity and allows you to carry significantly more rounds for the same size frame. I used to believe the whole "but it won two wars" thing. and when SHTF... ammo count is paramount
@@renaissanceman5847a short barrel ccw test is not appropriate for maxing velocity or shtf in the first place
@@renaissanceman5847 45 Super would like a word with you.
Always tells it like it is. Never shows any favoritism with ammo. Even when he likes a certain brand, he'll tell you if your getting your money's worth. Integrity is a premium these days. Glad there's some on this channel.
Short and thick…you talkin bout my wife again?!😂
😆😆😆
Wish companies would offer more 45 acp jhp in 185 to 200 grain projectiles to get the speeds up ! Thanks Tools for braving the cold for another good test !
Appreciate that!😎👊
Sig makes a V-crown in 200gr
Underwood Exterme Defender 135g @1240 FPS.
I wonder why they don't?
Underwood Xtreme Defender sure is good from my testing. My go-to round for 45acp.
The king of low speed expansion on the ropes. If even an HST struggles the 230 grain should be reserved for the FMJs. [EDIT: I meant out of a short barrel, as many rightfully pointed out in the comments 😁]
Mhmm
Agreed !
Only for short barrels (under 4") like Glock 30. Out of a 5", the HST shines!
45acp causes debilitating SHOCK
Even if it doesn’t expand much or little to nothing, it will penetrate less than an FMJ. Something worth considering.
I sometimes carry a 3.3 inch 45, so these tests are valuable.
Appreciate ya, brother!
LAPD's elite 🕶 SIS toted Glock 30S .45acp guns. I'm not sure what duty round they use, 2024.
Hopefully, you carry 185gr
@@Tom-cp6yj 200g v-crowns. They probably work.
Same… Ive been carrying a G30 since the early 2000s
A 185gr or 200gr .45 ACP HST would work well in the 4" barrel. A shame they haven't figured that out yet.
There's really not much one can do in the confines of a .45 acp round to fix that. It's just physics. Either way, bring it down to a 185, and you're in business. Might weigh less, but let's not forget that's smacking you with 61 more grains than a 9mm HST. Nearly 1.5x the weight, and the 9 does damn good as it is. 49% more mass, 21.2% bigger diameter, similar penetration. That's gonna hurt.
@@CrashRacknShoot 45 Super in 185 grain kicks some ass too. Bit more expensive for a shipment of them though.
Having had HSTs in my .45s for several years, I finally abandoned them after some reliability problems.
The worst came a few years ago when I was shooting out the HSTs that were in my carry Commander. It tied up solid on the second round. I had some trouble clearing the jam, kept shooting and then had another stoppage a couple shots later. Taking the gun apart, I found the front half of the case still stuck in the chamber. I kept on shooting the ammunition from the box and had numerous case failures: the case cannelure was cut too deeply and the cases came apart while firing.
Federal sent me a whole case of the stuff once I sent in the evidence, but I just used it for practice ammo and went back to Speer Gold Dots.
We also had a large number of bullet setback problems upon multiple chamberings and we now restrict each round to only two chambering before the round goes into the practice pile. I found out how much a problem this was on the chrono- suddenly I was getting an extra 100fps. Checking the ammo I saw the bullets set back nearly 0.10",
Finally, a Paul Harrel video had me finally get off the 230s after half a century and investigate 185s for the old warhorses. A 185 Gold Dot +P making 1000fps out my little .45 Shield is pretty nasty stuff and hasn't given a single problem in hundreds of rounds. (It makes 1080fps in the Commander and 1110 in a Government Model.)
Even an old guy can change.
That aint good. I actually think to myself what a deeply cut cannelure these things have every time I use em. Haven't had a problem with em myself, but it always stands out.
I run 165gr Hydra Shoks through my M& P Shield 2.0 with 3.25" barrel and the expansion is beautiful. Every petal peels back perfectly, looks like a starfish 😃
A 230 grain flat tip would probably be my choice in a short barrel. In a 4" or 5" barrel I suspect HST would do fine at close range.
Yep - stick with a standard barrel length is the lesson learned here. Although, lets be real - a 45 will do the job expansion or no. But I'd rather see it open up of course... This is why I like my G22 in 40S&W 180's at 1000 fps +
The original concept of the .45 ACP for the military as a "man stopper" was just a BIG chunk of FMJ copper and lead to do the trick. But a pass through with FMJ ammo and collateral damage on the battlefield is a totally different thing than out on the street in the civilian world. Seems the bullet makers could figure out how to get 230 grainers to expand at the speed of the .45 ACP or offer more 185 or 200 grainers with the additional speed required for consistent expansion. It does seem the threshold on these bullets is right at the 800 fps range, sure doesn't leave much room for error with the .45 ACP.
As I have said before the .45 caliber handgun is a relic of the past. The .40 and 10mm both outclass the .45 in every measure, including reliability of ammo performance.
@@kennethferguson4283That’s really just not true unless you’re talking about very short barrels once you get a .45 with a barrel length of 4 inches or more it will outperform .40 by a wide margin and certainly compete with lots of 10mm out there I don’t get the hype behind 10mm when most factory loadings are woefully underpowered the only companies that do 10mm any justice are buffalo bore and underwood
The original concept was also using a 1911 with 5-inch barrels. Getting the same 'scoot' from a 4-inch or 3.5-inch barrel is asking something.
@@exothermal.sprocket This is true. The 5" 1911 and the .45 ACP ammo were made to go hand in hand. We are asking much more of it now.
I'd like to see these two loads as a series of tests out of Commander length (4.25") barrels and full size (5") barrels and a full size Glock barrel (4.6").
It's very intriguing to me that you found the expansion threshold of approximately 800fps. It would be nice to see the degree of expansion and depth of penetration from the various barrel lengths.
Great 👍🏻 testing as always, thanks very much.
Yeah a commander length would be nice
You could have typed less words in the search bar and found your answer than asking about it in the comments. There's several videos showing exactly what you're asking. Even Tools and Targets has a video. Smh....
@@sloanmagnum5009 Hey there, thanks for reaching out Useless.
You have a Super day.
@@KD-lb9bg you're the one who's useless. Your comment makes that clear.
Huge thanks. I am very surprised that these velocities are as low as they are. A few years ago I tested Critical Defense, Critical Duty and HST +P in 3.3" Shield 45. Chronograph #s were low 900s for HST. It performed incredible in my crude media tests. All 3 expanded but the HST was so impressive we switched from Critical Duty to the HST+P. Stay safe & warm.
Very cool. You were able to identify the velocity threshold for expansion.
😎👊
i think, and i may be wrong... the .45acp was designed for ball ammunition... the U.S. Army in the year of 1911 wanted penetration and were not even concerned with expansion...
I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT
In the Thompson-LeGarde testing they tested many hollow points, fragmenting ammo and explosive ammunition but found it to be too unreliable or too costly to adopt. You can find the final typed test analysis online so you don't have to depend on rumors.
Mostly right. Military can’t use hollow points, which I don’t think were in wide use anyway at the time. So, compared to the 38 revolvers they had prior, this was a way to get a bigger hole and more power within the rules.
💥😎👍💥
John M Browning was asked what was best or what loads to use: 1911 .45acp model. He said: this pistol works best with round nose 230gr bullets, FMJ or JHP. ✔️
This is why 357 SIG exists. 9mm sized pistol, 40 sw capacity and 357 magnum performance.
I 100% agree, my EDC is a glock g31 loaded with underwood 124gr JHP. I just picked up a LEO trade in glock g35 long slide, and dropped in a alpha wolf. 357sig threaded barrel. Those .357sig really fly out of that 5.8 inch barrel. Hope you have a wonderful day.
😎👊
Amen brotherman!!! Nothing beating that 357sig for penetration or energy in a carry package...even weak 357sig is still well over 450 ft/lbs
@@joejones1779 nice
@@joejones1779 How do you have a 5.8 inch barrel on a G31 when the Glock website says it only has a 4.49 inch one?
The 45 has long been the emotionally favorite defensive caliber. But that was before the advent of the widespread use of ballistic gel. Now we can see that the emperor has no clothes.
I’ll stick with my 40 and 10mm, thank you very much.
Another great test, Brian! You've proven my point about .45 ACP... a 230 gr bullet just cannot be completely relied upon to do the job even you're paying for premium ammo! This is the reason I alway use the 185 gr. bullets when available when it comes to hollow points. Unfortunately, I don't believe Federal makes anything smaller than the 230. Speer does but I have no idea of availability, which can be a problem.
I will continue to stay with the Lehigh Xtreme Defender ammo for carry ammo. I continue to believe that it is simply the best bullet that can be had for self or home defense. Period.
All that said, I did some tests with the Speer 230 gr. Gold Dot Short Barrel bullets and they open reliably down to 750 fps (in my test medium of ziplok sandwich bags filled with water). Penetration, as with all Gold Dots, was excellent! Considering the fact that I can load these bullets to 950 fps with no problems, I have no qualms using them. These are the *only* 230 gr bullets I will load for 45 ACP! And after my first choice Lehigh bullets (135 gr XD), my second choice will remain the 185, with the SB bullets coming in 3rd. I do have a few of the 200 gr Gold Dots, which fall in between the 185 and the 230 but I push them hard, as I do all my self defense ammo. Velocity is King when it comes to self or home defense and hollow point ammo!
Of course, no one should ever use ball ammo in any caliber as it has been proven over and over to be nearly useless. The reason why is there are simply too many other proven rounds that do work! Even if you believe, in spite of all the tests (e.g. facts) regarding them, the Lehigh XD rounds will always work *as well* and probably better, than any ball round! Anyone that chooses to use ball over the available better ammo is being either extremely cheap or just plain hard headed. Whatever, no one can make them use the best possible ammo and hopefully they will never have to find out just how ineffective their hard ball really is! You can lead a horse to water but a pencil has to be lead!
Cheers,
jc
The 45acp got its reputation as a man stopper with the 230 ball fmj, proven in ww1 ww2,Korea, Vietnam, and present day,believe me, I'm a veteran, and have talked to veterans who have used it and seen it first hand. There is a reason its still being used today.
@@leahbennett4979 For sure. I wouldn't exactly call .45 ball ammo "useless"
@leahbennett4979 out of 8 and 10 inch barrel grease gun and Thompson with more velocity
@@hotrodray6802they will spin it against you no matter what ammo you use. Hollows? You tried to kill the person. FMJ? You were negligent of the people behind the person. Fragmenting? You were trying to blow his lung out. You can’t win when communism changes the very meaning of words and intentions on a daily basis
@@hotrodray6802prosecutors will try to put you in prison use the best tools for the job if not you’ll likely be dead anyways
Yeah 800fps is the sweet spot for proper hollowpoint airgun pellet expansion too. I wonder if there is something to that.
The federal punch 230gr and hydra shock deep both performed well in a previous test out of a short barrel
I really like the .45 ACP cartridge but I hate 230 gr. bullets in it, 200 gr. max whether long or short barrel and 185 gr. are the perfect weight. In my opinion the .45 ACP is such a low pressure cartridge that +P's should be the normal round if not loaded to .45 Super level which is still only 28K PSI and far less than most other self defense cartridges including the 9mm.
Great video. JMB's original .45ACP round used the 230gr. bullet, but the US military requested a load to replicate its .45 Colt ballistics, hence the 230gr. It's long past time to go back to the original specs and standardize on 200gr. .45ACP.
Thank you sir.😎👊
You're referring to the. 460 Rowland....@JamesGmoneyBanks
Expansion in 45 ACP is not necessary.
Promote affordable practice ammo in all calibers.
Excellent video. I'm a fan of the HST line, it's usually very good, but velocity is still important to bullet expansion. Back in the day, you needed to be supersonic in order to have any hope of expansion. With modern JHP bullets, supersonic is not necessarily the threshold, but when you get below about 900 fps, I think that reliable expansion with a JHP bullet starts to get questionable. Speer's Gold Dot might do a bit better at lower velocities since their bullets are not really jacketed, but are plated with a fairly thick layer of copper. I could be wrong, it's just my feeling on this subject.
Thank you sir.😎👊
I’ve seen 230s speer gold dots do well out of short barrels. The ones made for short barrels anyway. I got a bunch from PSA a few weeks ago.
So I’m guessing a 4.5 inch barrel is probably what’s needed to make sure the HST gets over the magical 800fps that’s needed for consistent expansion. At least thru that many layers of clothing.
You sir, are a legend. I love the delivery you have!
Thank you sir!😎👊
You found the expansion threshold. Too bad they don't make it in 200 grain
Yeah, 200 would probably be great stuff.
.45 doesn't get smaller even without expansion.
It's my guess a standard 5-inch barrel (such as a 1911) would cross that impact velocity threshold for good expansion. But even so, if I go as heavy as 230gr, I always prefer to grab +p.
This mimics what Lucky Gunner got from a 3.6" barrel. The standard HST gave 5 out 5 perfect expanded bullets but the +P gave only 4 out 5 expanded rounds. Their chrono speeds were 822fps for the standard pressure and 844fps for the +P. It's the opposite of what you would expect but I have no idea why. Their expanded bullets look much better for some reason, I don't know whether they use a heavy clothing barrier. I'd be curious to see how these perform in bare gel. I wonder how much the clothing is affecting it, if at all.
That said, I don't know of a better short barrel .45acp round. I can't remember if there's a lighter bullet that performs better.
Going back to your previous 45 HST +p vs the XTP we see great performance from the HST, but that was on bare gel. Another creator, 1shot, did a video several years ago using the Shield 45 against several top brands and the HST far outperformed them, even against layers of denim, fleece, and fabric.
Going off this video here, I'd still say the HST still performed better than the Winchester White Box shown in your video a few weeks ago.
Overall, I'd say yes to even the standard pressure HST. It's what's loaded when I carry my Shield 45.
The only things I like about the 45 ACP caliber is 1911s a suppressed pistols because just about every 45 ACP ammo company makes their ammo subsonic so it's really easy to find. I'm not going to lie most of the time if I have a 45 on me I have TMJs. I do like some of the 45 underwood and Buffalo Bore. I expected HSTs performance to be a lot better than that I love HSTs in 9mm they are definitely in my top 5 EDC ammo Gold dots and HSTs in 9mm expand picture perfect everytime in gel water and sand. I never tried HST ammo in 45 and would only consider picking up a box or two if I found it on sale and couldn't find any of my usual go to ammo. Good video thanks for the heads up on the below average ammo you saved me some money.
The 230 grain 45 is just too inconsistent. I’m sure someone makes a +p load that is good but this hst didn’t impress me. I got some Barnes +p 230 gr options that are seemingly solid but once again out of the shorter barrels it’s probably not fast enough. I like the 185 grain options because they can build up more speed plus It’s still a heavy projectile. Great test!!!!!
Curious as to why the standard pressure got better expansion than the +P. I suspect that the +P has a harder alloy lead for the higher velocities from duty-length barrels, and not compacts like the G30, or my P220 SAS Carry. I'm sure both variants would do well in a Commander or a G21.
In terms of finding out consistently of expansion, especially in rounds that you’re questioning if they will expand properly, really the testing protocol should be 4-5 rounds of each loading just to see consistency. I don’t think 1 round is enough to check for what you can expect to see consistently. .45 out of short barrels is iffy to say the least. I would stick with critical defense 45.
Excellent test!
Everybody's friend the .45ACP!
I would like to see you test the Underwood 45ACP Extreme Defender 135g @ 1240 fps.
In fact, it would be great to do a complete test of Underwood Extreme Defender/ Hunter in .380, 9mm, .357 mag, 10mm, 45ACP just to see how incredibly well they perform, but also the difference between them.
Some of my 200 grain cast flat points are expanding like crazy going through hvac refrigerant tanks. Have no idea about the JELLY.
I don't even mess around with 45s anymore if they don't have at least a 5 inch barrel. Such a tricky round for performance. Thanks for the video, Tools!
😎👊
There are rounds made specifically for short barrels but are usually hard to find. Speer gold dot is a good one.
@@PerceptionVsReality333I got a bunch of 45 gold dot sb from Palmetto St. a few weeks ago.
@@jona5517
You got lucky there that's one of the best rounds.
The problem is the 230 gr. bullets, 185's work well in all barrel lengths especially if they are backed by a +P charge as they should be since the .45 ACP is a very low pressure round to begin with.
Your shootin them crooked bullets again lolllll
😆😆😆
Wow, you said it. I held hst in high regard… until now maybe. I had a random thought as well, if you happen to keep track of which ammo doesn’t expand at handgun velocities, maybe they would at carbine or rifle length. I know pccs are a trigger word for some but I think it could be suitable for these non performers you’ve found lol.
You gotta wonder what the engineers were thinking when they concocted the recipe for both of these rounds. Not convinced I would ever buy either one of these rounds.
I wonder if Federal has changed something. I have had beautiful expansion from the standard pressure 230s out of my Xd-s. Basically the same setup you use. Only difference is the ammo was bought 5 years ago, and I bought the 50rd Leo marked boxes. I tested two separate times, got full expansion, and ~13" of penatration.
I will continue to carry HST in my .45. It's a 5 inch so I do believe it will expand. I did expect it to do better even in the shorter barrel, though. You found the barrel length at which HST expansion is problematic.
You did me a favor and made me glad I sold my M&P Shield in .45 acp with a 3.1 inch barrel Now I know I need at least a 4.25-5 inch barrel for those 45's
😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets I bought a CMMG Banshee in 10mm with an 8 inch barrel I used some Buffalo Bore 180 grain HP and it's amazing. The gun is having some double feed and brass ejection errors but I'm hoping they go away
Another great ammo test. I handload the 230 HST from a batch of demilled bullets I bought a few years back, but I have always loaded them to my +P levels. In my 5" 1911's, they average 930 fps and in my 4" barrel Springfield XD, they run around 850-860 fps. At those vels, they do expand well, so after watching this test, I will keep my 4" barrel loads at the 850 fps minimums. Thanks again.
I'm not sure how 930 fps from a 5" handgun can be considered +p
In my various reloading manuals, the load of Power Pistol powder that yields 930-940 fps with a 230 grain bullet is listed as SAAMI +P. Loads in the below 900fps are listed as standard. These are true chronograph velocities and not advertised factory vels that rarely actually occur. IN my 45 Super brass, I push the 230 grain bullets to 1,100 fps.
By Brad Miller, Ph.D.
"As many shooters know, the .45 ACP is the All-American pistol cartridge. It was the creation of John M. Browning, one of America's most prolific and talented gun and cartridge designers. When he created the .45 ACP in 1904-05, it pushed a 200-grain bullet to 900 fps. That load evolved into a 230-grain bullet moving at 850 fps.
Today's .45 ACP factory loads push 230-grain bullets at velocities ranging from the low 800s to the high 800s in fps. Several manufacturers offer +P loads that push 230-grain bullets over 900 fps."
As an FYI, I owned and operated an ammunition manufacturing business for 6 years in the 1990's.
@@SwampOperator
Love 45acp but never expect the 230s to expand, it ain't happening at those speeds at least. You know that all too well. You'd think these ammo makers would do some testing, too, though. At least we have you out there keeping a check on them, thanks TnT!
I use HST+P in 3.5" officers. It performs perfectly!!
Underwood 230 +P Ball in my Glock 30 and a 14 round mag. I can care less about expansion. Ball ammo was good enough for WW I and WW II as well as Vietnam. Good enough for me.
Praying for the bystanders 😂
Big slow 45 ain't punching through much after it hits home. I doubt it's gonna act like a 9 it's not shooting that hot@@ONENONLYOC
The advantage of 45 , they come pre expanded !
I’ve seen gel tests with Speer Gold Dot 230 grain short barrel that has done really well
😎👊
I believe Speer use to load a 200gr.,"flying ashtray" Always impressed me !
That was awesome I totally agree with the (fps) threshold comment. Excellent test and commentary. HST is still the king of the hill I believe most of the time. lol 😂. Very surprising on the standard pressure to be ahead of the +P. Looks like the price difference would be in effect on those rounds. Anyway thanks for sharing and shivering through the cold brother. Be safe. 🇺🇸🇺🇸⭐️🇺🇸🇺🇸
I can tell you that I did NOT expect that poor performance. Even .380ACP HSTs did better, but of course not in penetration department. Great video and proves even reading the box doesn’t guarantee performance, even the speeds were erratic to some extent. Time for a warm drink, but not meaning coffee. Barrel length does play a game esp. when a lot want to carry Small. Thanks.
Good round for people, for the woods I might have went with this if the +P showed any difference (it didn’t in your full size tests either) but I went with the Speer 200gr gold dots at ~1020 fps.
I instantly had the same thought 800fps is the threshold for hst to expand 😅👌
You’ve proven that, with the exception of those +p berry’s hybrids from underwood, 185 grain is the way to go in .45. Especially if you’re rocking anything shorter than a 5 inch tool. Another awesome test!
The 200 v crown worked well from what I remember too
Great video!
For a round not designed for shot barrels that's good. If you're shooting a short barrel you should be choosing ammo made for your situation.
Proof in the jelly. I think 180 to 200 grain is better. More speed
Maybe a test of hydra shok also out of the same barrel.
So moral of the story if you carry a subcompact .45 acp use 185 grain,, Actually,, that would be a cool test out that G30 200 grain vs 185 grain..
(TLDR: Getting a G30S again tomorrow and need to choose a good 45acp for the short barrel. Researching again now. Hoping you have or will do tests of the UW XD, Hornady Def/Duty, Liberty and other edc ammo with the short barrel.)
Your video tests are on the short list of one that I come back to multiple times! Especially since you are sticking with the clothing barrier on the gel. Last time on this one I posted about the G30 vs G29 and why I just stick with 10mm. But I stumbled across a G30S Gen 3 like I had before, and since there is still no Gen 4 or 5 out, I went ahead and bought it. The 30S fits in most holsters etc made for a G19 which makes life easier lol. Most of my handguns in 45acp are 5-6” right now so I haven’t really paid attention to the special needs using a short barrel. Thanks to your videos I’m back to that research to choose the right ammo for that gun. It’s been several years since I sold the other one I had. I have a lot of HST so I started here and you reminded me why I wasn’t using HST in that gun before. Not I need to see which other 45acp tests you ran from the short barrel! I’m hoping you did some gel/clothing tests with the g30 and the UW XD, Hornady Def/Duty, maybe that crazy Liberty ammo and some others? I remember some, but thinking you only used 4” or larger guns… About to begin the search. Thanks again for so many unbiased tests that have irl applications and now use the same medium for comparison.
As soon as I seen the velocity on that last shot, I was thinking to myself before you said it that it look like he found the minimum speed of about 800fps. to open up. Good test as always have a good one brother see you on the next one.
Thank you sir.😎👊
I was considerong a G30S for a carry option for a while. But I would only use 175, 185 or 200 grain max if I had.
That said, I picked up 1 box of the +P 230's last year from a LEO trade in and they are in the fullsize 1911. So, appears they should work in that tool. I got some 210 grain HydraShock Deeps for the Commander 1911. After this test, I will stick with those in that tool.
Thanks for finding the 800 ft/sec tbreshhold on these. You are serving God's caliber with justice with your work here today 😊
Appreciate that!😎👊
As noted, the elite PD detectives 🕵🏼♂️ of the LAPD-SIS carry Glock .45 model 30S. Undercover, 2nd gun. Not sure what load they currently carry- 2024.
I'd add: I own a used Glock 41 gen 4 .45 model. I bought Underwood 185gr +P JHPs in 2022 & a new box of 230gr +P Federal LE type HST in 2023. I rarely carry the big 41 .45acp but it does well, no flaws.
I stick with the 185gr & 185gr +P class loadings for the carry ( M&P 45c 4" barrel ).
If I plan to run a 230gr it's a lead SWC flavor.
Thanks for the good data brother.
For pistol cal I prefer 10” barrel max , unless it’s a 9mm then 16” shouldn’t be too bad
Hey Tools, Great stuff. 45acp is my favorite. Keep up the good work sir! 👍👍👊
Yeah right before you said it I was thinking the same thing seems like 800fps is the sweet spot
HST is what I carry in 9mm and 45acp. The hst performs in all calibers.
I only own one 45 ACP and it's a full size 1911 with a 5" barrel. I do not believe the extra barrel length would be enough to consistently fully expand a 230gr HP. Without the cloth they may have, but would NOT be a real world test and therefore worthless.
The 45 ACP was created in an era long before Hollow Points. So, large, heavy, and slow, FMJ bullets were the fare if the day.
.45
.45 Super 230s let's you throw a half ounce of lead at almost 400 yards per second.
I know the video is about HST , but I don't regret choosing the 45.
Would be great if some of the private loaders like underwood, buffalo bore, and the other players who load the hot stuff,
Maybe they can't get it in bulk at a decent price but even if they had to buy it from wherever at a higher price and just charge what they need to to make it worth while,
A few awesome hst underwood rounds that would be 100% awesome and incredible would be a 230gr hst +p+ at 1150fps+
And the 1 I think would be the best is the 357hst 154gr loaded into 357sig at about 1400+ that would be incredible as 357sig seems to be a round that never fails.
This was a very unusual test Tools. The standard pressure doing better than the +P. Those +P's seemed to have had some really inconsisten performance. But, this is the reason we watch and respect you testing videos. HST's didn't perform up to snuff in this test even though they'd get job done. Like you said you're paying a premium price but not getting the performance.
Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.
Would love to see you do your Sabre Black Tip video done again but with a 20 inch barrel! You saw some crazy performance with those rounds when you got the velocity up!
😎👊
Good test Tools. I picked up a 50 round box of the +P stuff for about $28 recently, looks like these are borderline in the shorter barrel, but I have a feeling a full size 1911 for example would see a little better performance. As you said its a big honkin' 45. I wouldn't carry a 45 on me but its in the safe!
Also, Sig makes V-Crown in 200gr now, I wonder how that round would do in a shorter barrel 🤔
Can't go wrong at that price.😎👊
Thank you for the excellent test!! I do not use any of my 45's without a 5 inch barrel. Yes, I carry a full size 1911 year round. I love the Hornaday Critical Duty 220+P and the HST 230gr +P. Love them both!!! Thank you again. You do the most honest and cool videos on the web. Still putting in my application for your "Charlie" position! I need to get out of NJ!!!
I am glad my bedside .45 is a Glock 41. I trust the HST in that. I don't know what I would carry in my 30 now, so I'm glad I carry a 27. I know HST works in that. Very informative test, thank you.
HST is a great round but if you're carrying below 4.25" it's not the choice I'd go for. My pick is Gold Dot 200gr +p or Barnes Tac-XPs in 160 or 185 +ps.
Thanks for testing these chunky HST slugs Tools! Looks like they need a longer barrel for a faster velocity to properly expand. You're correct too much for sub performance for the money. ♠️🎩🎱🎯🇺🇸🏁🇮🇱🇺🇦🔱🌻🌼🏵️💮🌸🏴☠️🏹
Basically a fail but in a standard 5in you would see 900fps and be just fine also in a different medium like water jugs they would probably expand but everything expands in water that's why gel with cloth barrier is so much better anyway good data as always👍👍
Dear Negative Nancy, that 230 HST works most times even out of 3.3" barrels! Thanks for the video. PS- I own a G-30 in gen 2.5 and gen 3. I don't use +P in these because of the less that complete chamber support in the older G-30's. Do I really think a 230 grain +P in a .45acp would suffer a case rupture in a chamber with the incomplete support of the 30? No. Not really. That being said, I wouldn't shoot the 185gr. +P Golden Saber through older Glock 30's.- Interesting results. Very interesting. It's a pretty odd occurrence when an HST 230 doesn't turn the trick even out of 3.79" barrels. 😮 Thanks for the test!
Thank you sir.😎👊
800fps seems to be a threshold for several rounds, and semi wadcutters might be my choice
I prefer a 40 over a 45 all day. 45ACP is a 21.000 PSI vs 35.000 PSI of the 40 = more speed, more energy better expansion and penetration, carry more rounds in the same size mag also blind barricades and crush bone better than the 9mm that is the reason why cops use it.
Feels like the trend is toward smaller/lighter, faster these days rather than the old school heavy-for-caliber stuff. Enjoying the channel!
They should do better out of my 4.75 inch barrel. I need to look see if you did a commander or 5 inch barrel. Appreciate your tests as always.
Im kinda surprised they got that much, but at least 45 starts out mighty big to begin with.
HST has got big exspantion and came up short in penetration alot. I Like 200 GD short barrel And Federal Hydroshoks Deep 210 gr.
Great video.
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Interesting test. Thanks for freezing for us Sir! I don't own a .45, but just love to watch your tests.
Appreciate that!😎👊
I have said it before... Tools gives the best reviews. Honesty, Unbiased, No BS
I use Hydra Shok Deep 210 gr in my Kimber Ultra carry it expanded well in a gallon milk jug. U don’t need expansion really with a 45acp Ball ammo has put more bad guys n the ground then any. When that bowling ball crashes into your chest it probably won’t end well.☠️ I like a 45 because I shoot it better then a 9mm for some reason I guess I’ve shot it so much more it sounds crazy but it’s true. Good video 👍
Thanks for the review. I been carrying a S&W Shield 45 for a while. Good to see some data for shorter barrel pistols.
I recently bought a G30S and have tested it for reliability. Gonna have to test my different favorites to see if it will expand.
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HST does pretty well again. Established almost like the Punch. Thanks for these tests.
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I'm pretty sure the standard pressure and the +P version are constructed differently. It looks like the +P version might be a harder lead and or jacket. This would explain the poor expansion, Federal probably intends these to be fired from a full size handgun where they might see more velocity... That's my theory 🤔
I've been carrying the Extreme Defender rounds in my Shield 45. That way, expansion isn't a concern.
If I was going to run a compact 45ACP, I would look at something like an Underwood Extreme Defender or Penetrator.
Please forgive my greediness for your fine content. Showing these same two rounds out of Sir Browning's intended 1911 with a 5" would've been great just for comparison. I can't remember how many 1911s I've shot but I have one that is an extension of my hand. I can walk down the fence row and shoot 12oz cans and 16.9oz water bottles by just pointing & firing while on the move. No sites, one handed with 230gr. And the HST is glorious out of a 5". But thank you so much for demonstrating that the HST isn't the right pill for the G30. If only I were 20 something again I'd strap that 40oz+ 1911 on every day like I used to.
Thanks for the data. I have a couple dozen of the blue plastic 308 German training rounds I’ll never use but want to see tested and get more data
Friend,
Just a suggestion/request, can you also do accuracy tests for the JHP rounds you test, I tested some Norma MHP 9mm today and the POI and POA were off, this might be a good data point to show case. Thanks for the great education you provide to us netizens.
.45 ACP is like your mom. Big, slow, and bangs real good! 😂
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Correct
Daddy? Is that you?
@@rickh9396 Could be, or someone else on the football team. 😉
@@bryanpropp2179🤣🤣 omg… nice.