How To Fix Large Evap Leaks On Your Car P0455

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  • Опубліковано 19 вер 2016
  • Scotty Kilmer, mechanic for the last 48 years, shows how you can fix the trouble code P0455 when the evap system has a large leak. It's not always a bad gas cap as many have found out.
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 467

  • @scottykilmer
    @scottykilmer  6 років тому +26

    Things I used in this video:
    1. Pittsburg Floor Jack: amzn.to/2Ameq7m
    2. Disposable Gloves: amzn.to/2zSRuxO
    3. Mechanic’s Tool Set: amzn.to/2Bzmccg
    4. Common Sense
    5. 4k Camera: amzn.to/2hZ4AxX
    6. Mini Microphone: amzn.to/2newgV9
    7. My computer for editing / uploading: amzn.to/2i2sKYz
    8. Video editing software: amzn.to/2jv5Fhf
    9. Thumbnail software: amzn.to/2k7tz6C
    🛠Check out my Garage to see what I use every day and highly recommend:
    www.amazon.com/shop/scottykilmer
    ❗️Check out the Scotty store:
    goo.gl/RwhRGU
    👉Follow me on Instagram for the latest news, funnies, and exclusive info / pics:
    goo.gl/ohy2cA

    • @dannyramirez738
      @dannyramirez738 6 років тому +1

      Scotty Kilmer do you know where the Purge Valve for a 2015 Mustang Ecoboost? I can't find the info anywhere on the Internet!

    • @davidtheinspector
      @davidtheinspector 6 років тому

      Hey Scotty! Your videos are a huge help to me. I Hyundai accent with a P455 I found that my charcoal canister purge valve in the back is failing intermittently. I ordered a replacement but it only has an inlet and slap filter with no outlet to connect to my charcoal canister. If I bypass my charcoal canister, what might that do? Would that be a problem? THANK YOU SO MUCH SCOTTY!

    • @davidtheinspector
      @davidtheinspector 6 років тому

      ***and small foam filter***

    • @lekilatu9500
      @lekilatu9500 6 років тому

      Scotty Kilmer I hear a hissing sound coming from the right rear tire but my tire is fine.

  • @gregbernard4466
    @gregbernard4466 5 років тому +15

    I think the fuel filler neck is a common problem with the evap codes also. These tubes from the gas cap to the gas tank often develop rust and leak. Changed my solenoids for cheap and finally found the leak in my fuel filler neck.

  • @1998enjoydriving
    @1998enjoydriving 2 роки тому +7

    Went ahead and did as you suggest and moving on to change the EVAP vent valve next, thank you Scotty you help real world people and enjoy doing it God bless you !

  • @buzoff4642
    @buzoff4642 4 роки тому +18

    Small or large EVAP leak needs a flow chart for checking.
    - gas cap, is it tight? if not tighten it
    - is there rust on the filler neck where the gas cap is supposed to snug? If yes, clean it up with emery cloth.
    - try replacing the gas cap.
    - etc.

    • @cmccorkle4377
      @cmccorkle4377 11 місяців тому

      If my vehicle code is reading P0455 and says large evap leak, and now when I push of the accelerator it's moves about 5 mph so I have to shut it off and wait a few mins, then turn it back on for full power. .. did u have this symptom from the gas cap ? Thanks

    • @buzoff4642
      @buzoff4642 11 місяців тому

      @@cmccorkle4377 No, it didn't. But gas cap is the easiest/cheapest to try. This sounds like such a large leak, gas isn't making it to the carburetor. Mine drove me nuts, turned out to be cracked fuel pump. Buried in the trunk under mat/spare tire, apparently none of the SOBs working on the car, over 3 years, didn't bother to check that.

  • @tskipwadoo3447
    @tskipwadoo3447 7 років тому +40

    Saving people money, you're a cool dude!

  • @artemisthefrenchie
    @artemisthefrenchie 7 років тому +6

    thanks scotty i also have a p0456 on my honda element so i was gonna change the vent valve but went ahead got a great deal on the whole charcoal canister with the vent valve and purge solenid already setup with it so i gonna just replace the whole so i dont have to do back in to fiddle with it later thanks scotty great work

  • @gonzogonzo876
    @gonzogonzo876 7 років тому +15

    Scotty thank you for informative videos, being on a tight budget your information is a life saver. God bless, keep up the good work.

  • @gatorgotme
    @gatorgotme 7 років тому +24

    Thanks Scotty, I can't tell you how many times you post a video of just my current issue. It's a talent, your timing!

  • @Jaxon23294
    @Jaxon23294 7 років тому +24

    This guy is golden!!

  • @therealrickdo
    @therealrickdo 7 років тому +4

    Thank you so much! The wife's care has this code and when I checked the gas gap was not tight. Thank you thank you thank you!!

  • @bandittweintraub
    @bandittweintraub 7 років тому +4

    thank you!!! I was about to write you about this issue with our 2006 Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew Cab

  • @brianbrewster6532
    @brianbrewster6532 7 років тому +1

    Thanks again, Scotty! I shall try these tricks with my 2003 Jeep Gr. Cherokee. I'm tired of seeing that Check Engine light and besides which, it needs to pass NJ emissions test next month. I better get cracking on replacing the usual suspects. Also - you might want to mention to other folks that split or defective air line hoses can cause this P0455 code to rear its ugly head. Those are fairly cheap fixes, too.

  • @ny3ali
    @ny3ali 7 років тому +1

    Thanks Scotty this video was a great help for my 05 Altima.

  • @sms042
    @sms042 7 років тому

    Great help to my Scotty. thank you for the second time so far!

  • @msheplervideo
    @msheplervideo 7 років тому +1

    Excellent quick snappy helpful entertaining well filmed video easy to listen to and follow - as usual!

  • @danalarose846
    @danalarose846 3 роки тому

    Thank you Scotty! You always have my answer.

  • @69wertepny
    @69wertepny 5 років тому +2

    Hi Scotty,
    Great vid. Im getting the issue where when Im pumping gas the gas pump handles keeps clicking off. I saw your video on this issue with the celica but am i just better of replacing the evap valve as in this video? Thanks.

  • @trwashere5906
    @trwashere5906 7 років тому

    Thanks Scotty! I just replaced the evap valve on my Golf GTi. Problem fixed.

  • @leo33125
    @leo33125 7 років тому +1

    amazing value video Scotty

  • @Beetlejuice699
    @Beetlejuice699 5 років тому +2

    I have that code on my Camaro right now, no performance or gas mileage issues, but thanks for the info. Now I know where to fix next.

    • @ronnietoni819
      @ronnietoni819 Місяць тому

      Me too my gas cap always pop up I’m going to Walmart and change my gas cap

  • @Scentsational-Vdo
    @Scentsational-Vdo 4 роки тому +3

    Dude you are amazing! Thanks for doing what you do!

  • @zacmewhirter5391
    @zacmewhirter5391 7 років тому +1

    super helpful thank you scotty

  • @mybeatmhz
    @mybeatmhz 7 років тому +22

    my favite mechanic .

  • @markthomas4083
    @markthomas4083 Рік тому

    Great advice Mr Scotty, thank you sir.

  • @ScrewballMcAdams
    @ScrewballMcAdams 7 років тому +5

    Lots of useful info in 3 minutes or less. Perfect for all the short attention span viewers like me. Thanks, Scotty. You totally get it.

  • @paulinojimenez5437
    @paulinojimenez5437 7 років тому +2

    muy buen mecanico gracias Very good mechanic Thank you

  • @PBWillyWonka
    @PBWillyWonka 7 років тому

    Like always, a great helpful video!!

  • @rEdHoUsE_1969
    @rEdHoUsE_1969 7 років тому +1

    Thanks Scotty!!

  • @markpowers349
    @markpowers349 7 років тому +1

    Thanks Scotty!

  • @micahg2242
    @micahg2242 3 роки тому +7

    Thanks Scotty! I tried a new gas cap and a new purge solenoid, but still getting the EVAP leak code, so this is my next thing to try!

    • @Primifyy
      @Primifyy 2 роки тому

      Did it work?

    • @micahg2242
      @micahg2242 2 роки тому

      @@Primifyy nope! and I still have that problem haha. I think it might be a small leak in the fuel line because it looks a little wet in a certain spot.

    • @Primifyy
      @Primifyy 2 роки тому

      @@micahg2242 damn so it doesn’t really damage the engine I guess ? Nothing major?

    • @micahg2242
      @micahg2242 2 роки тому

      @@Primifyy nothing major. everything has been running great I just have a check engine light and a small evap leak code that I want to go away

  • @JayCeeMax
    @JayCeeMax 3 роки тому +1

    You covered great points.

  • @Carlos-ri9ix
    @Carlos-ri9ix 3 роки тому

    Thanks Scotty. This code came on tonight. I'll buy a new part tomorrow.

  • @CloudGPham
    @CloudGPham 7 років тому +1

    Hey Scotty! I have a 2007 lexus is350 and I got the codes P0441 and P0455. I have already tried the gas cap as well as the purge solenoid. What else can it be? Do you have any idea what the combination of those two codes indicate? thank you

  • @illbones6709
    @illbones6709 3 роки тому +6

    Scotty, do ya mind if i call you scotty pimpin? You’re a legend man, we all appreciate you

  • @PrincessRenee1994
    @PrincessRenee1994 4 роки тому

    Thanks for your help!

  • @downside1237
    @downside1237 5 років тому

    hey Scotty I got two codes P4 0441 and p0455 my question is is the evap solenoid the same thing as evap canister valve? my 2013 Toyota Corolla has the solenoid that sits at the top of the engine and since they look pretty different as far as what I have and what I saw in the video is it the same thing thanks for your time

  • @greghagg3045
    @greghagg3045 2 роки тому +1

    Hey Scotty, I have a 2013 Ford Edge with the P0455 code. I like your idea of checking the gas cap first however the edge now has a cap less gas tank. Any suggestions?

  • @dandydani89
    @dandydani89 4 роки тому

    SCOTTY YOU'RE AWESOME THANK YOU!

  • @TheJbexcited
    @TheJbexcited 5 років тому +2

    man you been saving me so much money

  • @ThePirateWhiteBeard
    @ThePirateWhiteBeard 3 роки тому

    Hey Scotty, I've got an Australian made 2005 Ford Fairmont with the Barra inline 6cyl. I checked with a scan tool and I'm not getting any codes but it says there is an evap system leak. Would you suggest starting with the gas cap? Any thoughts?

  • @ChristopherLionRoars
    @ChristopherLionRoars 7 років тому

    Question: Does the evap purge valve block air flow both ways. I can blow air through mine in one direction but not the other. I can not blow air in the manifold direction.

  • @deinelguzman2328
    @deinelguzman2328 5 років тому

    Thanks for your videos

  • @HasanRedzicHaskoscustoms
    @HasanRedzicHaskoscustoms 7 років тому +1

    Scotty i just wanna say youre the Man. good to see a mechanic that loves his profession

    • @alexm2623
      @alexm2623 7 років тому

      I think he said in a previous video that when he got it it had been sitting for years and wouldn't start. He said the owner was amazed he even got it running again.

  • @DeathlikeVo
    @DeathlikeVo 5 років тому

    hey scotty! Thanks for existing!

  • @gilzr473
    @gilzr473 4 роки тому

    Thanks, love your videos 👍👍

  • @DeathInANuse
    @DeathInANuse 7 років тому +1

    Yeah, I noticed there was no longer any suction when removing the gas cap at the pump. Went straight for a new cap, but it didn't fix it. I'll try this one next time I get a chance.
    Funny thing is the videos I've seen regarding this issue are all on Nissans and I have one as well.

  • @randyyuvienco4306
    @randyyuvienco4306 4 роки тому

    Your heaven sent Mr. Kilmer.. thank you..!..

  • @robbo8566
    @robbo8566 7 років тому

    scotty kilmer....you rock man.....from big Robbo ..perth australia

  • @VendettaVinyls
    @VendettaVinyls 4 роки тому +1

    Hey, I've got a question if anyone may have any ideas. I've got a 2014 Cadillac ATS with the 2 liter turbo. Reading p0455 and p0446, replaced gas cap, canister vent solenoid, purge valve and the fuel pressure sensor. We've done multiple smoke tests, and found no leaks. In fact after a long length of driving with the tank below a quarter it actually builds pressure, and will blow air from the filler for 45 seconds or so before fuel can be added. Any thoughts?

  • @swogettiswindon8162
    @swogettiswindon8162 7 років тому +77

    Hes probably the most usefull texan if ever seen

    • @LNERMallard
      @LNERMallard 7 років тому

      HAHAHA!!!! Good one!

    • @wholeNwon
      @wholeNwon 7 років тому

      True enough.

    • @austinbenesh1193
      @austinbenesh1193 6 років тому

      Not sure if that's a compliment or a put-down...but he sure is useful!

    • @splash5974
      @splash5974 6 років тому

      You know he's Canadian right?
      Lol

  • @miker5044
    @miker5044 5 років тому

    I have a 2004 Pontiac grand prix gt and when its warm out i get a evap large leak it was a small leak before when its really cold outside it goes away what would cause that?

  • @pamunozz3
    @pamunozz3 4 роки тому

    Hello Scotty, I have a 2008 Kia Rio, which is coming out of the PO497 code, first the PO496 code appeared and I changed the vapor canister purge valve solenoid inside the engine, then the PO497 code came out and I changed the vapor Canister Vent valve solenoid under the car, and still the code PO497 is still coming out, the evap system continues to fail, even change the gas cap because the light of checking the gas cap was turned on once, please help! thanks

  • @teejay0870
    @teejay0870 6 років тому

    A few months ago, I have this strong freon like smell that started to come out of my AC when I turn it on.. and now its gotten worse that I can smell it as soon as I enter my car while the engine is still off.. could it be the evaporator? my AC still has a cool breeze by the way..

  • @MechanicalMikesRoadsideRepair
    @MechanicalMikesRoadsideRepair 7 років тому +2

    How ironic. My friends check engine light came on. He has a '05 Honda Civic LX Special Edition. He had that piece replaced,I forgot that the gas cap could cause that. Linked this video to him since it explains this very well and he is not a car guy. Scotty and Eric are 2 of my favorite UA-cam go to mechanics

  • @lmarazzo
    @lmarazzo 6 років тому

    If its bot too much trouble, i’d like to know if you could tell me where can I find the vent valve in a Ford Taurus v6 3.0 1997

  • @Ltenn
    @Ltenn 3 роки тому +1

    Where did you get the control valve from and how much was it?

  • @Mgconstruction419
    @Mgconstruction419 Рік тому

    Scotty I had a question for you. If I just changed my purge valve solenoid it seems it made my truck run much better but now I am having a really bad ( sulfur smell) egg & it started right after I challenged the purge valve solenoid? Thanks for any information my friend.

  • @ryanvoices9398
    @ryanvoices9398 6 років тому +2

    Hey Scotty love the vids man. I got a 2005 chevy equinox. Past few months I have had the p0455 code. Tried a few caps. Still coming back. Also I hear a popping noise. Not sure if it's the same thing. My mechanic did a smoke test on it and swears it's the gas cap. Put even a new ac Delco cap on it same thing. You think maybe it's some random weird stuff with the valve.

  • @1YankeeRose
    @1YankeeRose 4 роки тому +3

    Hi Scotty, I have been maintaining my wife's car with your help. I have years of mechanical training BUT, I'm in your age group, so New Tech cars , with All those codes, you helped.
    Now I just hade a 455 code on her car , 2005 XG350 Sport Hyundai, I looked and I was able to remove the canister. BUT ! 2 things , !- valve was open when I blew through it, I'm guessing it should be closed, 2 One of hoes lines rusted right off, the pipe that fed the cannister is gone, . Question , Can i find, and fish a hose up to where it's coming from?. Left side (drivers) seems to go through wheel well and trunk. The rest of the hoses which look like the ones from gas tank filler nozzle, look ok. Thanks for your help. Elliot

  • @Bucky0012
    @Bucky0012 7 років тому

    Hey Scotty. On my 03 Civic with 85k miles. I have a p1457 evap leak code. So far I replaced the gas cap and canister purge valve but the light came back. Do you think it's the canister shut off valve or the charcoal canister it's self ?

  • @jellyjordy1154
    @jellyjordy1154 Рік тому

    thank you!! I have this same Nissan Altima, same trim color and everything

  • @victorortega2718
    @victorortega2718 6 років тому

    You sir.... are the MAN!

  • @Dontflywithty
    @Dontflywithty 7 років тому

    Hey Scotty what's your opinion on a 1991 Toyota 3.0 v6? It's priced well should I buy??

  • @chrisyo295
    @chrisyo295 3 роки тому

    I have a 2002 sentra ser with a p0455 already replace gas cap, and the same sensor this guy replace and still with the sane code. Any help. Thank you

  • @mmbirdtoys4633
    @mmbirdtoys4633 9 місяців тому

    great vid, thanks Scotty!

  • @Fvcyoupayme
    @Fvcyoupayme 2 роки тому

    I have a 2013 Honda Accord sedan with the engine light on reading both small and large evap leak.. I’ve replaced the canister purge valve, canister vent valve solenoid & the vapor canister (autozone parts) … code still pops up after everything, biggest headache ever. Any suggestions???

  • @thetvirus363
    @thetvirus363 5 років тому

    Hey scotty on my pontiac 2001 gt i get the p0440 code. Thing is in winter time i don't have that check engine code. Only when its warmer outside. Have any idea why? Thx

  • @daddyolepore
    @daddyolepore 6 років тому

    I have a 2008 Jeep Patriot sport and the downstream oxygen sensor code po139 and I changed both oxygen sensors and the check engine light came back on with the same po139 code so what should I check now

  • @SauceHavinMotion
    @SauceHavinMotion 2 роки тому

    I have a 2003 Infiniti Q45 there’s no videos of where the purge valve is located nor the canister. Thinking of just doing a smoke test on it. Have the evap leak large leak detected code too

  • @martichernandez
    @martichernandez 2 роки тому

    Scotty....is the green cap on the purge valve harness supposed to be turn open or closed???

  • @Denlon2
    @Denlon2 7 років тому +1

    the mechanic did a smoke test and the smoke is coming from the gas cap even with a new cap. it still has an evap leak code of 0455...what do you recommend?

  • @46Isis
    @46Isis 6 років тому

    Pep Boys changed out my fuel pump and returned my truck with the check engine light on, code P04550. I took it back and they replaced gas cap. Code turned back on. Does 1999 Dodge Durango have this valve? Any suggestions besides taking back?

  • @tx_reds2426
    @tx_reds2426 4 роки тому +1

    man i hope this fixes my problem, thanks Scotty !

    • @tx_reds2426
      @tx_reds2426 4 роки тому

      @Scotty Kilmer do i need to clear the code after replacing or does it go away if the problem is fixed ?

  • @wpatters1229
    @wpatters1229 Рік тому

    2006 Lexus gs 300 changed the purge valve assembly but when the engine is hot I removed the line that goes to the charcoal canister and there is no feeling of vacuum at the valve inlet. Not sure if that is normal or not. Trouble finding a gas cap that seems to fit. Might have to go to the dealer...ugh!!

  • @bryantolliver8557
    @bryantolliver8557 7 років тому

    Scotty what's up, got a question? Didnt pass the e check bout a week and a half ago, got a bonneville gxp 2005 do u have any knowledge of those sensors goin bad on them? Thanks for your feedback and i appreciate your wisdom!

  • @antoniodelatorre2197
    @antoniodelatorre2197 5 років тому

    What would it be called on my 2004 f150 i googled it up and a purge valve comes up or is that wrong the same code came out on my truck it isnt the gas cap cause thats new.

  • @gahaylongplays7033
    @gahaylongplays7033 2 роки тому

    Fire as always

  • @Mr.Savage007
    @Mr.Savage007 2 роки тому

    Thank you. This helped a lot and will save me from taking to my mechanic

  • @realmaindrianpace
    @realmaindrianpace 7 років тому +1

    I just fixed this problem on a late '90s Mustang. Evap leak. It was a rotted rubber hose on top of the gas tank, had to drop the tank to replace it.

  • @diegoticianeli6770
    @diegoticianeli6770 6 років тому

    Great video

  • @robertrumfelt7843
    @robertrumfelt7843 3 роки тому

    Great video!

  • @kkamins2
    @kkamins2 3 роки тому

    Do you know where the Purge Valve Solenoid is located for a 2009 Fusion?

  • @joshuachenoweth1842
    @joshuachenoweth1842 Рік тому

    I have replaced my gas cap, Valor Canister purge valve Solenoid, and Vapor Vent Valve Solenoid, and I still have the same P0455 alert. Any suggestions?

  • @class1188
    @class1188 4 роки тому +1

    Scotty do you have toyota corolla purge solenoid replacement video??? I can't find video on this. Thanks! "Vacuum Switch Valve Purge Solenoid for Toyota" video needed :)

  • @sendtojake9
    @sendtojake9 4 роки тому

    Scotty, saving my car yet again

  • @gerordwilliams1896
    @gerordwilliams1896 5 років тому +1

    I changed that out and new gas cap but the light is still on i changed the one under the hood like 5mth ago it went off im thinking it went bad again. Under the hood

  • @jmcvay12
    @jmcvay12 7 років тому +33

    yet another reason why it's good to live in a state that does not require emissions testing!

    • @Mihalyofficial
      @Mihalyofficial 4 роки тому +2

      It may not be required but your car will throw an engine code regardless and has to be dealt with.

  • @samuelrogers3843
    @samuelrogers3843 3 роки тому

    found this to be a direct and helpful video

  • @CrazieFrogz
    @CrazieFrogz 6 років тому

    Scotty.. I bought a new car @ end of July. I've maybe had it a month all with the same issue is been back 3 times this lady time was this pass week. This dealership replaced alot of stuff. Free to me bc it's been going on since i bought the car so they have to by contact but my questions is/are with a evap leaks 1. How did it pass a 5 point emissions check? 2. Can a evap cause over heating issues? The radiator while idling can reach 208 so far. I try not to let it ... I've only had it less the 24 hrs since they've had it for 7 days. Taking it back again. Codes are po442 po455 , 455.. 2009 Chevy HHR
    Any suggestions?

  • @enriquesasquatch3554
    @enriquesasquatch3554 6 років тому

    I was wondering if the evap causes the code P0440? And was wondering if you know where the evap on a 1998 Toyota Avalon

  • @Diazeder
    @Diazeder 7 років тому +1

    thanks scotty

  • @nicenice2309
    @nicenice2309 5 років тому

    Hi. What is the name of the sensor that needs to be replaced??

  • @soulfly6ft3
    @soulfly6ft3 Рік тому

    I have P0455 tacoma. i smell gas in the cabin means its not the gas cap. Right? Thank you!!!

  • @cloudchaser907
    @cloudchaser907 4 роки тому

    I had an evap leak, turned out to be a broken line behind the canister. I glued it back in place, and cleared the code. Code never came back. But I would like to replace that line.. do I cut the old one, and use a heat gun? Or are the lines connected with glue? I found a new quick connector. But how do I go about this?

  • @eljokerjce
    @eljokerjce 4 роки тому

    My fuel neck filler is rusted and sometimes leaks while pumping gas; could that be the cause of this code?

  • @centralillinoisdashcam4367
    @centralillinoisdashcam4367 7 років тому

    Great video! Very informative. :-) Thanks for sharing!

  • @SoyJayP
    @SoyJayP 7 років тому +1

    Scary, I got this code today and then you upload this video. It happened before with another video. The car said a few days before: "Check Fuel Cap" after filling gas tank so it must be the cap :D

    • @scottykilmer
      @scottykilmer  7 років тому

      not always, that's a generic code and often something else is leaking

    • @davidmeyer8640
      @davidmeyer8640 7 років тому

      It's a very generic code...my brothers car had that code last yr and the mechanic said it could be numerous things and he fixed what he thought it could be and he road tested it for 15 miles and check engine light didn't come back on so he gave it an emissions sticker but on the 1 mile road home the check engine light back on and it was the same code but we had the sticker so he kept driving it till it died 11 months later

  • @mikaelachavez1600
    @mikaelachavez1600 4 роки тому

    Dude you’re a legend

  • @ShoreGarage
    @ShoreGarage 4 роки тому +1

    I revved up my engine and now its got a knock thanks scotty =)

  • @1mandanceparty
    @1mandanceparty 4 роки тому +5

    hey Scotty, thanks for making these videos! I have a 2006 kia optima ex v6 that had a P0451 evap emmisions CEL...I changed the gas cap gasket, cleared the code and it came back. I also noticed my power steering fluid was low, so I topped it off and the P0451 CEL went away without me doing ANYTHING else...I find it hard to believe the two are related but I did recently read an article that said a power steering problem or leak could be a symptom of the P0451 CEL????
    what the heck is going on? if the light comes back, I'll replace this valve. thanks for any insights!

    • @baddonkey75
      @baddonkey75 11 місяців тому

      Power steering fluid also feeds the master slave cylinder in Ford rangers at least