Narcissistic family roles (scapegoat, golden child, invisible child)
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
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Raise your hand if you were the scapegoat. 🙋♀️🙋♀️🙋♀️
Emmalee Shallenberger As a child my mother would complain to me about my stepfather whenever they had issues. I asked why did she marry him and her answer “because of you”. My sister was the golden child and had the better relationship with my mother.
🙋🙋🙋me too...my brother is the golden kid...funny thing is in my family the roles reversed. When i was showing signs of success, I was the golden kid but i started to struggle in career & he went ahead of me so now I'm the scapegoat because I'm practically useless.
Emmalee Shallenberger 🖐
Here!
I was the scapegoat and the golden child. Now I'm a recovering heroin addict! Wut wut!
The Golden Child can also turn on the Scapegoat child, feeling no guilt, and be just as mean as the Narcissistic parent.
True. The golden child often become Psychotic & this includes brilliant intellectual minded golden children. Ex family scape goat here. I watched 2 siblings go full blown Psychotic & one go full blown Narcissist & we had no parental protection. Both parents were violent. To end this on a happy note though, I found self respect in adulthood & self love. That's what's important. The rest history.
I was the golden child and I protected my siblings from our abuser. As best I could anyway...
Maybe try dealing with the resentment instead of dragging it around with you wherever you go?
@@XXgenderloveXY Easy for the golden child to say. I suggest you work on your own resentments.
@@XXgenderloveXY you are a rare one.
I've bee.n all at diff points with each parent
I was the golden child. But, the day I started doing things I mom didn't like or approve, I was suddenly the most hated and bratty person in the family. It was super confusing and hurtful. But it was also eye opening. I realized I am only valued when I do something for them, so now I have build boundaries and holding them. Still struggling with it but so glad I can see the family for what it is and dropped all my expectations.
I was the golden child and I dared marry a guy my NM did t approve of..and I have dared to stay (mostly) happily married for 35 years to that much abhorred man who stole her golden child. I am constantly flipping between good daughter bad daughter status for my entire married life..never know when I’m gonna cross the line and be the bad daughter although I often dare to just cross that line and stay there! 🫢
Those roles our narcissistic parents gave us fluctuate amongst their children. It is super confusing and done on purpose. The whole family is involved to attack one person. It is worse when they get the cops involved. My family stayed silent when the police were called on me. I was talking crap to the police because I was still protecting them, but when I was going to tell them about my sibling's behavior one started to tell me to shut the f up repeatedly. He didn't let me speak. He's still dealing drugs even after going to prison twice and was almost deported. He didn't want to get arrested again for having drugs on him as he rushed to leave with his kid. They are willing to talk crap about you, but then don't tell on themselves.
Congratulations on this!🎉😃
It went about the same as when my twin was the golden child and did something our narcissist parent didn't like. We were adults by then.
Me, the scapegoat, was manipulated into blaming her and hating her for something she did. After I heard her side of the story, I calmed down and realised...this is all just one huge drama. As always I tried to solve the entire problem for them, even though it had got nothing to do with me. They wheeled me in very easy back then.
But this all happened before I got aware and conscious about all the psychological issues in my family.
We (twin and I) then tried to have a relationship apart from the parent, like Dr. Ramani said. Took a while for my twin to cut contact to the parent. Sadly it didn't end well. My twin turns out to be a narcissist themselves.
I have no contact to the family I grew up in. And it's for the better. I am finally free to be myself!
I was scapegoat and invisible. As an adult I’m now invisible mostly. I move away years ago. Limited contact. Listening to these videos and awareness of this dysfunction is critical to my healing. Thank you Dr Ramani!
DITTO! Thank you Dr Ramani!
I can relate too!
We have 2 things in common: raised as the scapegoat and invisible. I wonder where your life has taken you, with this as your base. I too left their physical presence ages ago but that just turned me into being invisible. When did you start learning about these roles we were playing?
Same ❤
I think I was both too
When you stop people pleasing, people aren't pleased. (survivor of narc abuse)
Vicki Summed up perfectly!
So true!
@@lisalissner1070 EXACTLY
I’m learning this at 30.
Exactly! As long as I pleased them, they stopped harassing me for a moment. The problem is they want more and more as times goes by. The end is my death. I know if I die, they will use my death for making stories.
It hurts when your own mother competes with you or have jealousy issues with you it's so vile and disgusting
It took me half of my adult life to accept and see it for what it really was.
Yes, when your mother is jealous because you are younger, prettier, and flirts with every boyfriend you've ever had!
same. she hates me
It makes me so sad when my mother does this or when I catch her distain for me. I have been using boundaries but I haven’t really cut her off.
I feel you, she jealous of everything, cant even make a coffee for my father to avoid her jealousy.
Omg the way you describe the scapegoat... I didn't even realise that having the ability of 'knowing' from a young age is what made me the target. 😭 I'm bawling
Same here.. I was maybe 8-9 and I knew it already. My role was determined.
Not only was I the scapegoat when I was a child, but now as an adult my golden child sister grew up to be a narcissist, just like my mother is. I am very happy that I cut contact with them
This must be a pattern. My golden child brother has also grown up to be a narcissist. When I finally learned about narcissists and that my mother was one, I wanted to tell all of my siblings. I poured out to my golden child brother about all the ways she has hurt me. All he said as a reply was “well she didn’t do those things to me”. When I mentioned clear disrespectful things she has done to me he said “she’s doing the best she can, just focus on the positive things about her”. I’m about ready to cut him off
@@KingMark33, yes, your brother is a minion and enabler of your narc mother. Maybe a narc himself. He needs to go.
My experience, also.
me too! it’s slowly feeling better every day!
LOL SAME!!
Remember fellow scapegoats, if you're making the narcissist angry, you're probably doing something that's good for yourself. Obviouisly don't set out to cause anger as a goal, but if taking care of you requires that the narcissist get angry, so be it.
Like your life depends on it, i feel you! :P
Thought: My getting a present narc angry would hurt their young children. Then I think, they are already being used as pawns to get alienate me. So it would be better to bow out and hope for reconnect at some point later. But its very hard. Either way, said narc, will likely be angry.
I tended to defend myself and stand my ground. But it's dangerous and leads to nothing. All my life I thought I had to fight for acknowlegment. It is draining. Until I realized I'd rather turn away from everyone who doesn't acknowlegment me and make room for people who naturally do :-)
You’re right narc would be angry. My narc acted nice around others but told my kids I needed one upside my head. I always confronted him by phone-safer- when he used the kids. I had visitation dec making power - he lost 1 of his reg weekly visits permanently. Also documented, informed my lawyer, didn’t give him an inch when he was using the kids.
One thing about reconnecting with a narc - it doesn’t get better- it gets dangerously worse. They tell you, you’ll be back, can’t lives without them. When you return- to them it means they are right regardless of your reason for returning. And they increase their control.
@@sandra8991 Defend yourself is exactly what they're trying to get you to do, and no matter how you do so, you'll be wrong, regardless of reality. Nobody has any claim on your time or your feelings. It's disgusting that the price for interacting with someone is accepting their abuse. Good riddance!
Behind closed doors I was the scapegoat, but in front of strangers I was "the golden child".
I definitely got some of this.
At home I was dangerous, stupid, and violent. Outside I was intelligent, kind and caring.
The quality "oh he sometimes misinterprets things or uses the wrong words, sorry if what he said disturbed you, he didn't mean it" remained in public to go along with the constant gaslighting at home. I suppose that's what happens when you'll just blurt out to your teacher that you were kicked so hard in the back that it threw you to the floor and gave you a nosebleed.
Apparently it was effective though.
I was the same way. This position comes with a-lot of guilt, gaslighting, and pressure.
Me too. This was so confusing and also disgusting when the compliments are given in public
Me too and I still am :(
Your comment has a ring of familiarity, but my public role as a golden child was narrowly constrained to my academic performance. My older sister was the bubbly, talkative, easy to get along with child that my stepmother preferred, but as the "good student" I gave her a certain amount of second hand glory. Since this was my only source of approval in the family, I felt that I had to get A's on my report card. Anything less, even a B, felt like failure.
As a golden child I turned into an empath. Always reading the room and accommodating everyone else. Being what others want me to be, to make them look good. As I break the patterns I am falling from grace. Thank you for your insights.
Same here. 100 percent. As I learn more about narciistic family roles, I see a pattern of the golden child is often villanized for getting the praise, and understandbly so. But what the other roles fail to see is the deep guilt and shame that we have for being unnecessarily put on a pedestal and always knowing inherently that we could never satisfy our parent's desires, no matter how much we tried. Couple that with the inner guilt we feel for being favored over our other siblings, through no choice of our own, and it's all a recipe for deep shame, guilt, and not good enoughness. Nobody comes out unscathed when raised under the abuse of a narcissistic parent.
I definitely was the scape goat and the eldest child. Today I keep my mother at a distance respectfully.
I had a therapist ask me one time, “describe your siblings starting with your oldest brother”. I said, ‘golden child” followed by describing myself as the scapegoat, my next brother is the invisible child and my youngest brother the class clown. the therapist said, “congratulations, you just described a textbook description of a dysfunctional family”.
Oh my god! I can SO relate to this! Amongst us four sisters, there is a scapegoat, a golden child, an invisible child and me -the class clown.
Sounds familiar. Hugs.
Did that help you when they said that? Or was it dismissive?
@@lauragrolla5916 no, it wasn’t dismissive because I had developed a good relationship with her by then. And yes, it did help to know it was that “textbook description”. Also, her comment prompted me to do more reading/research on birth order, so it was all good for me.
Wow. In my case...Big bro is the man of the family and is to uphold the family line. Second big bro is well..disabled and has special needs from birth so therefore free SSI money for mom monthly. Little bro is the GOLDEN CHILD. As for me? I'm the third son aka second youngest and I'm the scape goat child. I fight back and stand my ground when my mom will try to pick on me when I was a teenager. Sometimes I wish my dad was still alive because I believe if he was alive he would keep my mom under control.
I was the invisible child that became the scapegoat when I started finding my voice as a truth teller.
Same. As the eldest and the only girl, I was just the one who was there to look after everyone else’s emotional needs while mine were just ignored. Made sure I behaved all the time and helped my mother best I could. I tried to get my two brothers to behave too so as not to provoke narc father (middle one was golden child and youngest was scapegoat who was blamed for everything). Until I became a teenager when I started making more of a fuss and getting involved in parents’ arguments to shut them up, trying to stand up for myself... that was likely me starting to rebel (slightly) and had enough of all the shit and of never being listened to 😂
i was wondering if it's possible to be both at the same time, I guess you just switch overtime.
@@cindymarshall Yes it's possible. I was both.
Same here. Nowadays I’m the scapegoat and invisible child. Depending the situation
my own lead to murder.. i escape . and i was no longer a pushover abus magnet . the sister ...
I was a scapegoat for sure. What’s eerie is I remember from age 12 saying words like “I’m not your doormat!” or “I’m not your scapegoat!” to my parents because I got so sick of getting wiped on all of the time. I was the object of everyone’s wrath if they were having a bad day to the point where I could FEEL IT by just walking in the room if someone wasn’t happy. Of course in that case, I was responsible for fixing them so that I would not catch the wrath.
It took me til today to realize I’ve been the scapegoat. I’ve always been blamed for everything, they all gang up on me during family gatherings and when I point it out they gaslight me. I’ve tried being the bigger person but at this point I’m exhausted. They’re the reason for my mental health problems which they’ve excused as nothing more than me needing attention. In return I struggle with finding help because I downplay it all as nothing more than a bad day or week. I can’t deal with this anymore
Armando, I'm so sorry. Any way you can cut them all off? You'll be better for it! ❤
You weren't allowed to need or want anything, and now you think the same way. So sad. I hope you find your way to full health and recovery.
You are not alone Armando. Maybe you need to cut ties and maybe keep them cut. I wish I had, like joined the Army or something and kept myself away as much as possible. Please just don't give up. We scapegoats have a lot of gifts that really need to be spread around. I worked with incarcerated women and found that I was uniquely qualified to do this. May our Father in heaven bless you with strength and wisdom.
I am in the same situation as regards family . But I used all their gaslighting to my advantage, by having a tougher skin & making money .
In otherwise, ignored them & their gaslighting as an adult & regard all this as background noise.
Just find good pipo in the world of billions of pipo & move on.
" Sucess is the best revenge " says Oprah Winfrey.
It sucks to be the scapegoat. Being ganged up on, always made to feel like everything is your fault, and never feeling like you belong. I didn’t even know what love was until I met my girlfriend and got into therapy
U are not alone! Same situation here. I consider myself lucky now because i have my husband with me and he can see and made me realize how narcissistic my mother is.
Be careful to know the red flags of narcissistic personality disorder so recognize these people trying to manipulate you in the future.
I feel for u brother kinda the same thing happened with me...
I know tell me about it!! It does have lasting effects.unfortnatly it took me long time to recognise just by simply removing myself from the environment.had not fixed me.as a scapegoat I was still there in my head.in life situation s, unfortunately tolerated far more than needed to due to upbringing..only things only clicked in therapy.which was recent in 40s.🙈
How sad-tragic to be made to feel that way; makes you see what sinners we really are.
I'm married to the scapegoat and the way he STILL doubts himself and lacks confidence is so sad. His family would lock him in a closet, even in adulthood when I visited his family they would ignore him when he spoke. Being a scapegoat within the family system really sets one up perfectly for paranoia, social anxiety and so many other issues. Psychological abuse leaves so many deep scars.
😢
@@unicron6873 excuse me?
Cut ties with them, convince him to do therapy
for me i did not give in to the roll in life jobs or other and i became not what others were. and i was happy and a billy jack for kids. i ws set upon by persons and brain damage and my life i worked so hard for taken down. wicked sister evil people dirty games and family sat and listen to me die, nothing i did in life htey failed at ws rewarded and the siste wanted me to go down.
Yes, it is a terrible thing to do to anyone especially a child.
I was the scapegoat child and my brother was the golden child. (He moved 2000 miles away.) My sister is still trying to get my narcissistic mother’s (my father is codependent and an enabler) approval by taking care of her in her old age. I have finally escaped and refuse to be any part of this highly dysfunctional family. My healing begins.
My sister used to be a scapegoat just like me. Now, she is the brainwashed golden child who completely assimilated to our mother’s nonsense. Me and our younger brothers are still scapegoats. I have faith that I will be a whole-person one day.
That's the only problem I have that psychologists will say remember that the poor golden child is also a victim of narc parents except a lot of times they are accomplices and will hurt the scapegoat. I have no remorse for the golden child in my family they are trash.
Yes!! It changes sometimes. I was sometimes golden, other times scapegiared. There were 4 of us so it depended on who was doing what at the time, that depended on how our narc mum treated us.
@@jojomariejosee I feel that deep in my soul.
She assimilated because she wants to direct the abuse to someone else.
@@leahflower9924 For me, I see my golden child brother as both. He was brainwashed but never saw the light like I did (I was a scapegoat and thought I deserved it). I think he still believes our parents are good and all the other bullshit they told us all our lives and thought they were right, and that I deserved all the guilt-tripping.
But none of that absolves him from the wrongs he committed in their name and the abusive hell he put me through.
None of this is to invalidate your experience, because others in my system completely agree with you. I'm just offering another perspective ♥️
- Limmy
Holy bloody hell all my life makes sense now. May you go to heaven woman.
Haha right? My husband was all "dang has she been following you around with a notepad or something". 😂
At least we have this platform, these videos, these comments. We had to live in darkness before. Feels like such a blessing. ☺️
Have a good weekend!
@@aspenram3885 ikrlol described my lifee
Thats exactly how I felt xx
Making sense of it all... taught me all I need to know about myself!
She is a saint.. Put on this earth to restore sanity far and wide.
Yes something like 🤯 BIG awakening
It’s incredible. I noticed that when the scapegoat moved out, another person became the new scapegoat.
I called that the "one out rule". Someone had to be out of grace from the family. Never ever more than one at a time. But always someone, repeating between all the children who weren't golden children.
Was it the former invisible child?
I was the scapegoat. I moved out and now the youngest sibling (former invisible child) is the new scapegoat.
The former invisible child
Another interesting thing- when the N is alone and not supported by the enabling damily member(s), all of a sudden you are no long Er the scapegoat, but almost a friend…. It’s like the scary dragon becomes a tiny mouse… and you almost feel a sad sort of love for them.
I pray that none of us are or become N’s … and even now N’s be freed from their chambers of delusion and isolation 🙏
Invisible child here. I asked my mom once why she left me alone as a child (that's a serious understatement of her neglect but you don't tick off a narcissistic parent) and she said something to the effect that I never got in trouble and I didn't come to her so she assumed I was okay . . . In spite of the fact that at the age of 8 I went from a child who ran everywhere, all smiles, to reading books in my room after I was SA 'd. Both my parents "noticed" that I had changed and even had a discussion about getting me help because I was so withdrawn. Yeah, that never happened.
I'm the truth teller who no one wants to listen to in my family. I've learned not to poke the bee hive - they all sting you if you poke at it. Most of my siblings (four living) are narcissistic to one degree or another.
I am uncomfortable getting attention. Academics has always been where I have gotten attention. However, I've reached an age (62) where that has become very uncomfortable because I know I'm not the smartest person in the room - I'm one among many. More often than not, I don't know how to be comfortable as anything other than invisible. That's a dynamic I know how to navigate.
@Robin Laber Me as well. To say “it’s no fun” is the understatement of the decade. I’d happily be part of a self-help group for former invisible children. I can completely an utterly identify with every word you wrote!
I was also the invisible one and feel everything you say. Just became self aware of my narcissistic mom. It will be a long journey but rn I can’t stop crying everyday. I’m matching sooo many things to soo many npd patterns…. I have bumps on my forehead and misshaped skull bc she said I fell off the bed. She said I was the easy baby that all I needed was a bottle. I can only imagine how many times I needed to fall before I had a deformed forehead. When I had my boys she told me don’t worry they will be fine. Babies are hard to kill….. I was never noticed as a child so I stopped talking for long time. Maybe they’ll notice now… But still no one noticed. I would hide for hours maybe they would come looking. No one came…
@@scho637 😪. I know how you feel. I will pray for you to heal from the damage done. There is healing in Christ! ✝️❤️🙏🏻
Thank you…
@@scho637omg.... my heart rate just doubled I too was Invisible Child I lived in an alcoholic home everything was a secret so there was no talking in the family and they weren't shy about not talking or even acknowledging me I was truly invisible I was the trouble child looking for attention I also hid in the basement in my closet not until you mentioned it did I realize I was waiting to be noticed thank you another piece of the puzzle
~... remember it was the narcissistic parent(s) that gave you this role(s)...~
Thank you, Dr.Ramani 💜
I am the scapegoat. Everything has been my fault. I carried my family. At 25 I’m now finally ready to cut them off completely.
good luck Courtney... it is difficult to do that! Maybe work on your boundaries. To cut them off completely may hurt you more than you can imagine.
Indy1984 The thing is I do put up firm boundaries. But my narc mom doesn’t respect them. Phone calls always end in tears and accusations. My dad barely has anything to do with me. I’m to a point where I think no contact might be best for my healing. Thank you for your words of encouragement ❤️
Courtney, me too. I gave them every opportunity for mature adult conduct. Then I cut them off with no regrets. Things were complicated by a parent’s addictions. Same old hamster wheel.
I respectfully disagree with “working on your boundaries”. As a matter of principle, I won’t change anything about me to fix a manipulative person.
It doesn’t work anyway. They are dedicated to the status quo at any cost. Leave them to it.
Courtney go grey rock and low contact. Sounds like your still answering phone calls and engaging in JADE’ing. (Justifying, arguing, denying, and explaining). Narcs have no control over you if you control the narrative.
Courtney I agree. I find it necessary for you’re health. Sadly Removing yourself from toxic people/family.
I'm the family scapegoat. Anytime, even as a child, that I objected to some injustice, unfairness, in the family I was accused of being a trouble maker, of trying to start a fight. I once asked my dad why he hated me so much. His answer was that I, "had a big mouth." Translation -- I was a truth-teller; I refused to go along with the family facade -- the lie that was presented to the outside world.
I'm also an empath. That might be true of a lot of scapegoats.
Your story sounds like mine.
I was the “back talker” because I was always challenging my narc father. I don’t think my mother left the mentality of being the abused wife, so even to her I’m still the scapegoat at times. Being the scapegoat made me challenge how a lot of people think (which made it great for my career, not so much for family relations). I’m still left out of a lot of family gatherings because even though I won’t challenge them at inappropriate times, I do at appropriate times.
My experience as well.
I agree, they label you as the "problematic one", heavy shaming tactics
Doris White I’m also an Empath, and I can relate to your story.
I am a golden child that fell from grace into the scapegoat role. Life in my household sucks but I’m hoping to break free and start healing as soon as I can.
I wish you success.
Yes, that's me please make plans.
I was the invisible child. I learned to fend for myself and never need anyone. The world is a sink or swim kind of place. I keep getting knocked down, but also keep getting back up on my own accord. Interesting how my golden child older brother is now using me because he can’t cut life on his own.
Im in the same exact situation, my younger brother is the golden child and leans on me for support when he already has it.. it boosts his ego or entitlement more
Hahaha same here, my older brother was the golden child and the middle one was scapegoat, the golde child needs our support all the time
Sad 💯🙏🏽💯
That golden smart child is screwed 😮😮😮😮😮😮sad to see so
Much intelligence absolutely wasted
@Michael Oesterle, cut him off. Don’t allow your brother to use you.
As a scapegoat, I got beaten the most physically and emotionally. Ganged upon etc. I've decided to go no contact best choice I've ever made. Its what worked for me. Currently in therapy :)
I made the same decision about my birth family and no regrets. I'm now dealing with narcissism again through my adult child's spouse. Grandchildren are pawns.
I did as well. My sister, the Golden Child was protected from my mom and my invisible sister was protected from my dad. But they never protected me from worst of each other. Im still suffering today. My mother will stop at nothing to make my life miserable.
Same here
❤️💖🐅💕
So happy for those who made the hard yet necessary decision to leave toxic members and move on with YOUR life!❤ beat wishes for all
This just makes me want to scoop up all the abused or unloved children and protect them under my wings
Thank goodness for places like this ❤️
Love your own inner child the most💜🙏🏻
ok, you legit made me cry. thank you for being the love that so many of us were missing.
Hi
Bless you for saying that!
I am an only child and was the golden child. After dealing with anxiety, depression, substance use, and a brief period of homelessness among a host of other trying events my narcissistic mother barely talks to me and has definitely placed me as the scapegoat.
I’m the scapegoat, and oddly enough, I really hit the jackpot with my Golden Child. I’m ten years older and I absolutely adored her and took care of her with my whole heart because my life sucked so much that she was all I had to live for, and in return she’s always been pretty loyal and loving and mostly had my back even in spite of the crazy dynamics. Probably helps that she’s mature for her age and has a good bullshit detector. Things worked out pretty well for me in the long run because A. I would much rather have taken the heat myself than watched someone so small and helpless take it B. My personality is much better suited to survive being the scapegoat than to survive the pressures and restrictions of being the Golden child, and Vice versa, and C. Although I had a shit family and a shit childhood, I came out of it with my freedom and with a really cool little buddy. Also, since we stayed in touch after I left the family, she has a positive example of what it’s like to live your life freely. Now that she’s getting older, has a degree and is gaining financial independence, we can finally do things that the family dynamics previously prevented, like traveling together.
I think this is pretty rare, because I have seen other Golden children absolutely eviscerate their family scape goat with no remorse and I would never ever invalidate that horrible experience. I guess I’m just proud of her because she chose not to turn out like the narc, and I want to give her some kind of credit, even if it’s in a random UA-cam comment nobody will ever read 😂
My older sister was the golden child, for awhile at least, and she too tried to protect me when she lived at home. But something must have cracked in her relationship to our parents because she ran away in her late teens to live with a friend's family. Broke my dad's heart because she never came back to visit before he died in his early 50's. Not long after graduating high school she married a guy who became a career Navy officer and I lost track of her for 20 years. Although I finally located her when it was time to sell the family home, we never managed to get back together in person before she died.
My advice after all the bs I went through, because don't trust and stay away. They will lie even( family members), to make sure your miserable.
Best thing to become self sufficient, don't tell people your business, set your boundaries, make sure your lawyer supports you, be firm and decide what you want no matter what anyone else says. Find a good supportive therapist, and only surround yourself with people you treat you well and the ones that don't don't keep them in your life.
I have to work towards this..
If navigating a narcissistic family is like being in the middle of the ocean without a ship, one sane person in your immediate family isn’t driftwood, but a whole God bless’ed raft! If she grew up with you around to show her what real love is-not that sick knockoff narcissists peddle-then you are probably the reason she became a treasure.
good for you and her
I'm the invisible child, unless I try to make any of my own decisions, then I'm the scapegoat.
im sorry for you
As the invisible child, you receive two comments where as the scapegoat got 260+ replies. I often fit this role.
What truly hurts as a scapegoat is the feeling of voicelessness, that your pain seems to remain invisible, the cause of your suffering incommunicable, that sometimes you wish you rather had some physical mark on you instead so others would see and better understand
Yes.
Even with physical and sexual assault .. I was invisible. My sexual assault was my fault .. it lasted from 4-9yrs old .. but apparently: I wanted it! I was blamed for it .. I was taught young that I can’t speak because it’s always my fault .. my mom would beat me if I said I was assaulted so I stopped saying a word .. then physically assaulted? I was hidden .. I was asked to keep quiet .. to avoid further abuse .. I tried to seek help but somehow.. I have my parents with their glowing image so I was exaggerating or I deserved it.
I hate where I am because I ran away and made a life then 2 years ago .. my dad surfaced in my life and I said no to be physically assaulted. I got restraining order .. after I spent 5 days in the hospital .. but he managed to stalk me enough to assault me again and now that broke me
I told the police but without evidence that he was near me .. nothing happened to him. And that truly why I am having ptsd .. panic attacks and anxiety .. I hate it
@@ABirdOnTheMoon that's really hard , i want u too know i believe you , its hard but u' ve got this ,perhaps try to get help from somewhere else where they dont k ur parents ( a professional who isnt biased), or try learning how u could help urself on the daily if u havent already , i believe u and believe in you, u've got this ❤❤
I felt this in my soul ❤❤ you are not alone
@@ABirdOnTheMoon i am so sorry. your dad will eventually pay when he stands in front of the just judge, God. he will also be subject to other shit while he is still alive that you may never see. your abuse was never your fault! dont let any of this break you, darling. i never had sexual abuse, not really, but i had everything else. get a good therapist and/or church (keep trying different churches if you are unhappy), and protect yourself at almost all costs. take care of yourself, babe. make sure you avail yourself of every help available. be kind to yourself. Jesus loves you.
I was both the invisible and scapegoated child: nothing I did-accolades, wealth, success-got even a congratulations. At the same time I was ganged up on by everyone. A very strange dynamic.
Would love to see a series on aging narcissistic parent who also has hoarding disorder..everything you have said so far is spot on in describing our toxic family dynamics..but then add on Hoarding disorder..and old age and wow..toxic mess magnified…
Yes!! My NM is a hoarder!!!
I was around 9 years old when I came from public school, walked myself home(around 15 minutes) and found the door locked. I didn't have a phone so I couldn't call anyone. There was no note left to say where everyone was. I finished school at 2:30pm... My mother and my siblings all older, came home at 8:00pm at night...from a wedding party they had gone to... I was outside and it was so cold, I even had to crouch alone somewhere and tucked my hands and feet in the school clothes I was wearing. They just got home and casually said they were at a party, I was pissed and confused at how they could forget me like that... This woman gave BIRTH to me... I have a son now too at 22... I COULDN'T imagine forgetting him to attend a party, leaving him unprotected and cold.. I just could never. At 22, I have figured her out.. she is toxic and narcissistic..but once I realised this... She no longer had ammo...I don't care anymore, I do what I want and fully ignore what she says lol it's great... At the end of the day, those that get hurt by narcissists are people who are expecting more from that narcissist and believe the momentary nice image they may portray... I don't believe her anymore at all... I see her for the sick person that she is. And I have never felt free my entire life until I realised this a few months ago... To realise it I first dated and married a narcissist and since my experience I can see narcissism in certain people and I feel as though I have a power now... No one can play me mentally anymore because I know the game.
So sorry to hear that, I've been through similar situations. It's absolutely horrible to feel too.
Jewelrybee Kay, That's quite a thing to have happen to you at 9 years old. Just. WOW. I'm so sorry.
You’re an amazing loving person. I admire you.
Take care. More power to you. Regards from India
Jewelrybee Kay, good for you. I got locked out at 12 years old because they didn’t want me on a weekend vacation to Niagara Falls. They came back and showed me photographs of all the fun they had. You know to keep quiet because a fight is waiting for you.
I’m with you that I could never do that to anyone either.
I was the scapegoat. The golden child went to uni and dropped out, didn’t even finish the first year. The golden child is a “scientist”. I did five years of law school including a masters and im a “failure”. Go figure. 🤷♀️
Well, if it makes you feel any better I'm really proud of you for completing Law School 😊
No matter what we do it’s never enough! It’s not us it’s them and we can’t ever please them so the best thing is to walk away
You are totally not a failure. Good job on your studies.
It's what you achieve and what you think about yourself that matters. Live your life and love yourself ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@@aceclipse It would be better if you talk less and less with such a parent. Bad energy.
Dr. Ramani, you have literally saved my life. I grew up with a narcissistic mother and enabling siblings. No matter what, I was always cornered by my entire family, minus my sister. I never got any type of validation, no matter how clearly I explained things.
Amen KingM....
I started off as the Golden Child until I got smart and bold enough to tell my mother she was wrong. Then I was the scapegoat for the rest of my life with her. Now I'm 25 and I'm just now healing from the trauma
Samee heree... I Had certain people in my life point out my reality, but I didn't want to accept it. What really opened my eyes is when I met my ex's family & seeing their family dynamic made me face it.. I'm 25 currently going to therapy, and working on distancing myself from certain family members & setting boundaries. Just still, trying to accept and let go of the feeling of "not good enough". I love watching dr.ramani's channel cause it reminds me that I'm not alone and the guidance she gives. I wish you the best of luck on your healing💕
God bless you; stay strong; He loves you and wants the best for you; seek the LORD God Who made you. (John 14:6, 3:16; Matt 11:28; the Lord Jesus is the Only Way out)!
Same thing happened to me, except roles changed more than once.
I was the scapegoat, and still am, if we get together. My younger sister was the golden child and was so terrified of mother's displeasure, she would never speak up.
Omg……EXACTLY!!!
Scapegoat here 🙋🏼♀️.
Narcissist: mother
It’s scary how good she is at manipulating and convincing others of a false truth.
I knew something was wrong with my mother at a very young age.
Some people catch on to who she is in a couple decades.
Others...they never realize.
I miss the mother I’ve always longed for.
What you wrote really resonates with me. Thank you for voicing my feelings
@@grnddesign Me too.
I miss the family I never had. I absolutely understand this. Thank you for sharing.
You are not alone we had no mother in this life!
Very sad indeed
I hear ye
I was the golden child when I was reflecting well upon my mother; I became the scapegoat when I developed my own personality. She now refuses to speak to me and has alienated me from everyone in my family. They all think I am ungrateful for not worshipping at the Mother altar.
I’ve been the scapegoat and recently diagnosed with depression/severe social anxiety disorder. At age 33, I’m now undergoing therapy to “re-parent” myself and remove those self-sabotaging voices reinforced during childhood.
After my parents’ failed marriage, I became my mom’s scapegoat. Partly because I looked similar to dad who she hated. I became the conduit for her anger and was often labeled the villain in my own family.
My younger sister became the Golden Child - the direct extension of mom’s ego - receiving all attention and resources. She eventually became the same entitled covert narcissist that my mom was. She was dangerously manipulative - Perhaps the most hurtful thing she did was turn my “invisible child” brother against me using lies. They continued to gaslight me along with members of my extended family.
After years of growing up feeling like a cancer in my own family, I finally sought professional help. I met my amazing girlfriend who gave me the support and courage to finally seek help - my sister tried to triangulate and spread false rumors around my girlfriend too but ultimately failed.
I hope everyone else who suffered parental narcissistic abuse can (1) learn to forgive their parents, (2) choose to disassociate from toxic ppl and maintain healthy environments with people who support you and (3) value yourself and seek therapy no matter what.
I plan to set solid boundaries and come back even stronger. Eventually when I raise my own family, I’ll make sure my children learn empathy, have their emotions mirrored and are able to form healthy long/term relationships.
Let the process of becoming stronger begin for all of us💪
I see you. I feel you. We got this 😉🫶🏽
Remember we don't eow our parents nothing. It's better to cut off narcissist parents completely.
Fuck. I'm 13 and I have major social anxiety/general anxiety. Ik it sounds stupid to hear a 13 year old say "im depressed " but um yh. I also don't wanna self diagnose.
I've been self harming quite alot recently, after every 'fight'
I've been absolutely miserable lately, im getting nightmares again, and I just feel genuinely tired. When I wake up, I feel dread for whats to come. I go downstairs knowing im gonna get screamed at for something. I frequently wake up to my mum screaming at my sister. Shes constantly complaining or whining, but if neither me or my sister are in sight, she'll just be talking to no one in particular, but then when we eventually go downstairs, she starts on us.
(Me and my sister are the scapegoats. I have 4 brother, one is 2 years old tho and tbh he gets screamed at just as much as us.
My 2 oldest brothers are 20 and 21, they just try and stay out of it.
and my other brother is 16. He's the golden child. She doesn't attack my brothers, just me and my sister. I really don't know why.
With my brother who's 16, lets call him C, he spends the most time with my mum, as she's always asking him for help with the baby. He basically acts as a co parent.
My mum talks shit about us to him, and feeds him a load of bs, and now he's basically brainwashed.
She tells him we're "abusive" and "disrespectful " and that we "cant be told anything "
But fucking hell its the other way round. She cannot be told ANYTHING, she seriously believes she's in the right every time and thats fucking scary. She expects sympathy from everyone and anyone, plays the victim, acts different infront of guests. TALKS SHIT ABOUT US TO GUESTS. (Even to my siblings friends , they dgaf)
Tries to embarrass us and make out that we're rude etc.
It's so hard to explain how horrible my mother is without sounding rude, but I'm so glad some ppl here can relate 🗿✌😔
Yknow how I think she veiws me and my sister. My sister is the 'successful ' one, and I am the disappointment one. With me, shes just accepted that I'm a failure, and I've just gotten use to her seeing me like that 🥲🤷♀️
I wear hoodies and joggers, my sister wears nice pretty crop tops. I go out looking like a tramp every time, but like I said, my mums accepted that I'm the failed child.
But when my sister wears baggy clothes out or smthn, bc she just doesn't wanna wear fancy clothes for once, my mums like "what, why? 😰 but why don't you wear something nicer?? What abt that nice top you have? Why don't you wear smthn nicer tho??"
She probably sees my sister as an extension of herself.
Every time my sister puts on 'nice' clothes to go out, my mum showers her with compliments. Ik I'm not pretty and all and the stuff I wear is pretty average, but surely she can think of smthn better to say than "but you look a bit like a tramp" or "you're wearing THAT?"
I dunno, its just the little things that I catch and overthink abt for the rest of my life.
Me and my sister have both had eating disorders, yet she still calls us pigs when she's 'arguing' with us.
I get blamed for everything. Even when I'm not involved in an argument, my mum has to involve
Me somehow or include me in the argument.
@@summer93i how is it going now? better? same? worse?
@@brookemetzger1 the same tbh. But its ok, I think im doing better. 14th birthday coming up soon, I'm kinda dreading it lmao
Scapegoat sounds like many an Empath's childhood.
The curse of the mirror.
This is a great way to think about it. Thanks for that!
@Metanoia Indeed, things aren't black and white always.
Omggggggg
@Metanoia It's interesting how you're continuing the cycle by elevating yourself & demeaning your sister by calling her evil. Why watch these videos if you're not going to use it to be a better person only to use it to learn new catchphrases like evil sociopath. Have you looked at yourself to see what kind of person does that to another, much less your own sister.
@@brownielove4389 Maybe her ex-scapegoat sister IS an evil sociopath. It's interesting how you latch rigidly onto a particular paradigm and wield it as a dogma from which no deviation is possible. These roles are an inductive generalization derived from aggregated data. Psychology isn't physics. You'd do well to ask questions first and shoot later when dealing with these matters.
My mom is a massive narc and my dad is her enabler. He will usually try to humiliate me when he's trying to show her he's a "good husband". My mom cut my long hair when I was sleeping when I was 7 years old because she was jealous of how long my hair was, claiming it was "baby hair and unmanageable". (I'm black so hair is super important to us). She put a bucket hat on me for two years and everyone I went to school with thought I had cancer for years. I stopped speaking and almost lost my voice because of this. My brother (the golden child) totaled his car (his fault, not the other driver) so my parents just GAVE him my car and I had to buy myself another car. I just went no contact with my family two weeks ago and I have never felt happier.
Yes stay away from them😨😨😮, they will only hurt u 😢❣️make ur own happy family, feel u, God Bless u ...
Praying for you! It takes a long time to feel good about yourself with a family of narcs! Hang in there and stay strong!!
Good for you . My heart dropped when you said about your hair what your mum did. As most women are hair is important to us
They are terrible! I'm so glad you got away from them
My narcissistic mother is a demon in disguise has done so much harm to me I also went no contact 5 years ago and the dysfunctional family, don't go back ever! Blessings your way.
I was invisible nearly until my scapegoat brother left home at 18 without telling anyone. During some medical exams I was given an IQ test for some reason and my parents were told I was above average. It was enough to become the golden child who would disappoint if not bringing home perfect scores all the time.
Without that, I'm convinced that I would have turned from invisible to new scapegoat.
I was an only child. My mom had me young and unmarried. She and I lived with her grandmother. I was both the scapegoat and the invisible child. She abused both myself and my great-grandmother. This clip has made me realize that I wasn't crazy and just feeling sorry for myself, that it wasn't all in my head. Thank you.
I'm an only child and I was all three: my "role" would depend on the situation
Same here!
🙋🏼♀️
I grew up a lonely child, carrying the weight of a single narcissistic mother and being the scapegoat/invisible. When I turned 13 my mother's partner became my step dad and he became the enabler, martyr, co dependent. Him and I used to tag team each other to bring relief to each other when the weight became to heavy to bear. My mother became jealous of our silent understanding and he became her flying monkey and they both tag teamed against me.
Crazy, manipulating gaslighting, smearing, denial, etc...Very distressing. My step dad is still in denial and I went NC to low contact years ago with my mother to maintain my sanity to this day.
Thts my kid now
Any tips?
I was a nervous wreck from age 6 as the scapegoat. When I left the house, I became invisible. 50 years later, I carry the guilt, flashbacks and terror. F them
I was terrified of my father from a very young age, and I think the PTSD continues to this day, and I am 68.
As a narc family survivor, I second that. F them.
F them !
Hey, it's alright. People recover at a different pace from one another. You have to remind yourself that as an adult now, you have the freedom you most likely didn't have as a 6 year old child to. You can make your own choices and be who you want to be. Don't and never give up on that.
🖕 to them on your behalf
I was mostly the golden child growing up until I became a police officer and my training helped me to distance/see the deception happening in my family life. As I became aware and questioned more, I slowly became a scapegoat. Progressing through adulthood, it seemed to switch back and forth between me and my sister depending on who was in her good graces (is that common, to get regular switching like that? I'd love to hear more about it). The triangulation was also intense, and my relationship.with my sister was ruined. Then when I published a children's book 2 years ago, I became the golden child again. It was eerie how nice she became -- on her best behaviour -- and all the while I waited for the next shoe to drop again. When it finally did, I had enough & set even firmer boundaries. I'm now a scapegoat for life and everyone in my family blames, shames, and hates me. Watching these videos has provided more understanding, uplifted me at times, and helped me not feel so alone, Dr. Ramani. Thank you so much. I'd love to hear your answer to my question in parenthesis above if you ever have the chance. Thanks again.
Hello, I think I might have experienced something similar to you. Golden child growing up, scape goat in my twenties (for being the child who didn't bear my parents grandkids amongst other reasons), seems like I am the golden child again for being a good Aunt (I'm like a big kid who goes swinging in parks. I enjoy it)... I even feel like both in some ways, the black sheep and the favored one. However, my parents are not diagnosed as narcisstic so I really cannot say this is certain.
@@adriasorensen2249 Sorry you experienced that. It's maddening how they can shift so easily depending on their whims or goals. My mother isn't officially diagnosed either, and likely never will be. She hates therapists. They are agents of the devil that twist and turn a person against their family (her words, not mine). *sigh*
My next oldest brother was the scapegoat for years till my daughter became a teenager. She was smart enough to see through the mess and avoided my mother. So my mom focuses all her anger and blames my daughter for everything.
Invisible child here. As soon as I became able to read, that was my escape to a happier and richer world. No Father around, he was in the Navy for 20 years and basically lived on the ship to escape my Mother. Which in essence left us defenseless against a raging wolf. I had a rich fantasy life that I could escape to mentally when my Mother was raging. My only Brother was born seven years after me and my Sister. He became the golden child as my Father valued him only because he was a male. Males are more valuable.😒😑. I learned to not care. I cared more about the families of Jane Brontë or Jane Austin or Louisa Mae Alcott. I escaped this demeaning family when I married and had my own Sons. I broke the abusive cycle. I would say, What would my Mother say or do? And then I did the exact Opposite.😁😬💪🏼🥰. I wanted them to love and find security in me. Where did I learn these parenting skills when I never saw it in my real life? Remember all those healthy family dynamics I read in those classic books? THOSE Mothers became my role models.
Very cool! How strong you are!
Good for you! Fantasies have been a very important part of my own coping mechanism. I wrote a novel, but don't know if I will ever publish it.
Off course males are more valuable. You need lots of work to do still.
I was/am the golden child of two narcissistic parents. I am officially stepping down from that role. I do not have contact with my dad as it is unsafe. My mom on the other hand is seeing the change in me and is incredibly vicious and trying all the angles to “get me”. But I’ve got me now. I see her.
'But I've got me now...' most powerful.words ever.
GREAT for you!! Stay strong and keep those boundaries up!
I'm not sure which I am but both parents aren't people I am safe being around. I put ME first now & forever!
Same here, I have now become the skapegoat of the family. Aggressiveness has turned harder, but I also feel happier and at peace with myself
My mom as well The Narc enabler. The passive aggressive one...its all coming out
Did you ever think that maybe you turned out to be narcissistic yourself? I think I've been the golden child, now live abroad and NC work my narc mother, but I'm starting to see narcissistic traits in myself lately after having been involved in a rustic relationship for a few months a little while back. Thanks :)
Scapegoat....Learning to re-invent myself in my 40's.
You’re not alone ! I am right there with you ! Ugh:(
Well I just turned 60 and I am finally learning how to live.
@@christar9527 I'm 44 and only just starting to work on liberating myself from those who hurt me.
50 and finally see the light
Same thing
I experienced being the scapegoat then transitioned at some point to be the invisible child. Not to mention mother tried to compensate for her behavior and showered me at some points with complements and gifts, to fall back afterwards to treating me like a tool to her own happiness. Those “part time” narcissists are the most confusing because you spend a lifetime trying to see the big picture of the dynamics of what is really going on and then when you are out you are on your own and mostly drained and need therapy to regain a sense of self. I was lucky - to some extent - to have found good people outside my family who guided me and took care of me but it wasn’t (and still is not) an easy road. Peace to all victims of narcissists.
God, i feel I’m reading my own story.. more power to you
I am the scapegoat in my family. I noticed at 6 yrs old my mom was distant and cold. Unaffectionate. Dad was the kind parent. Whenever I received praise for anything, mom criticized me. I cooked, cleaned took care of my younger siblings starting when I was 11. As I grew older , one sister copied my hairstyle and dressing and told people she was me. She copied everything I did. She & mom are inseparable. They bullied me daily for yrs and eventually turned the family against me. I have gone no contact now and wish I did it sooner. The family behaves like a pack of ravenous wolves. I'm thankful for your videos Dr. Ramani. I didn't know what kind of nightmare I was living through at that time. My sister & mother have gotten more outrageous as time went on.
Plot twist!
When the scapegoat learns how to spot the game early on then, turns the tables by getting a MS in Psychology all the while keeping my knowledge on the low!
Good for you! 🙂
That is fantastic! Well done.
I am the scapegoat and my golden child sister became the psychologist - which has only furthered my abuse now she’s backed by her degree. Ugh
Skow ko !!!
precisely what my nephew is doing rn. getting a psych degree with drug abuse specialty. due to his mother's issues and his role in that.
Well done my friend.
Sometime your sibling doesn’t want to have a relationship separate. They want to stand up for N parent and make you feel like you are crazy.
Christina Elizabeth Griffin So true. They join in with the scapegoating right along with the parents.
Yes! I dislike my one of my brothers more than anyone else I can think of. My mother is now dead but I don't even think the way I feel about her is the same as the way I despise him. He's deliberately cruel and enabled by his pathetic partner. I don't usually think about him but my sister has just been to see them over Xmas. I'm quite shocked by the strength of feeling.
@@chokinonashes61 .you are not alone. I simply hate the whole clan, one who gave birth to me and abused me before l could learn how to talk. Am the 1st born, the brother with girl parts is the golden child.sooooooo golden the mother separated from my ex dad to go live with him and his equally demonic wife. My ex sister who come's after him was soooooo good a flying monkey she graduated into an Ape. 7 years down the line l can't describe how they look like now. No contact. Cold war. Am not on any social media so they have no knowledge of which country l now live in.
My brother and others like to think my mother and i are the same. Hod how i tried to be kind to that woman after her abuse. Now i look crazy
That was it. But she complained that I was the golden child. She still has to be "better" than me. I have no relationship with any of them anymore.
Scapegoat here.. my relationship with family is marred by miserable memories of what i was put through as a kid. You are right, now in my adulthood i can clearly understand the toxicity of the narcissist parent, i have lived in self-doubt almost all my life
I was the golden child, then I developed a serious addiction to drugs and alcohol due to the extreme pressure put on me by my narcissistic mother and father. then I immediately fell from grace, my parents completely discarded me, and I am now the scape goat. Going through my addiction was the best thing that ever happened to me because it has allowed me to understand my parents for who they are as human beings and gave me the chance to destroy my life and be re born again. I am now living on my own, 10 000 miles away from my parents and have re started my life. one day at a time. sober. thank you for this incredible video
understand my parents for who they are as evil warped zombies** (Not human beings)
Growing up in a family dynamic like this is beyond bizarre and heartbreaking for the children. You either get away and stay away or you are sucked in for life.
I totally agree. I cut all ties with my narcissistic dad last year. No contact at all anymore. I have blocked him on my phone and everything. My son has nothing to do with him at all now either. I found out I have Complex PTSD. I also have fibromyalgia and rls and neuropathy, and OCD. Relationship issues my whole life. I have to tell you all something though. I'm doing so so much better every day and the longer I stay away from my dad, the better I'm getting. I've been listening to audio on Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker. If you ever want to really learn about yourself and who you really have been your whole life, this book blew me away!!! I found it on Amazon. Sending out prayers to all of you who are going thru anything like me. 🙏🙏🙏
@@lisa7711 I can really relate to you and I sympathise with anyone with a narcissistic parent. It can make for a very unhappy childhood. It's impossible as a child to know what's going on and it was only much later, having severed ties with my controlling and manipulating mother, that I realised how tragically she affected the whole family. There were four of us and no father to moderate her behaviour or even help explain it. I'm still learning and putting pieces in the jigsaw now that these things are being openly discussed, such as realising that we were all alternately Golden Child and Scapegoat depending on her requirements at the time! I have just found this forum and feel that it's going to be very interesting and helpful. A child cannot understand that a parent does not love and want them but once I unwillingly accepted that reality, which was not until after she died, I could finally let myself be angry that she had made my early life a misery. She gaslighted me because I defied her plans for me and I essentially lost all my family. It's only decades later that I have managed to pick up the threads with two of my brothers and a favourite older cousin, and we can talk about it. The other brother seems to blame me for all his misfortunes because of her influence. I find that the hardest thing to forgive. Otherwise I've made a happy and successful life and found a wonderful and understanding husband and many good friends. Stay strong and work through it. There is so much help and guidance now, none when I was young. I am at peace with her memory and try to understand her and remember the good things about her. She had a hard life too and couldn't help her behaviour.
I hope it's not for life 😕
I'm the only one who stopped drinking the kool-aid when my mom died and now I'm the scapegoat. My mother's presence kept our narc somewhat neutralized, but not from her own kids. I hope to God more members wake up someday, until then, I've kept my kids away from them. We value true love on this limb of the family tree! Praying for all other children out there suffering from this type of abuse.
Can u be both? scape goat and invisible in the same time?
I'd say I was invisible until someone needed to take the blame for something, then I became the scapegoat.
My dad was the Narcissist, my mum passive aggressive, my older sister the golden child and I of course was the scapegoat.
It took me to the middle of my fifties to fully realise this, when everyone left 😨.
Same..I am 48..I have always felt the problem but has been acknowledged in the last months.
At nearly 60 yo I'm the Escaped Goat! 85yo sadistic Christian mother, my "NOTher" isn't GOING to take me to the hell that started my life so she can also cause the end of it. Thanks Dr Ramani❤
I was the golden child growing up. Then I had really healthy relationships show me that my mom was extremely narcissistic. When my eyes finally were opened I took an IMMEDIATE fall now I am very much the scapegoat. I took the red pill and I will never EVER go back.
Same story here. Becoming a dad and my loving wife opened my eyes! I would also never EVER go back. I can't! Once you saw it, it can't be unseen anymore.
Same here.
ditto. except it's my father. turning me into a scapegoat made it much easier to leave father.
I was the golden child and my sister was the scapegoat/invisible child then she had children and our dad switched us except now she can’t see how toxic he is. This is really hard since our mother died and can no longer protect us, I didn’t even realize who he was until she died.
Same here. I was the golden child, also. I became scapegoat. I dealt with codependency, people pleasing and no boundaries. I'm slowly doing better on my own.
I was a golden child that became a scapegoat in recent years. Having once been a golden child, I know how fake the seemingly good relationship between a parent and golden child can be. It's so sad. But I have such a newfound respect for those in my family that have been scapegoats for years.
Me too
But my sibling is narcissistic too😕
Same. Like a miniature version of our mom.
thatemilygirl True and it sometimes makes me deeply sad . I am no longer in contact with my sibling .My sibling is gaslighting saying things an Facebook and to relatives.I don’t know what to do but not talking has made life so peaceful
Have you ever got fake "i love you's" to control your emotions.
All the time .My sibling tries to make a big deal of birthday and stuff but the basic nature is so cold that the whole thing is more scary than festive !
Yes, Dr. Ramani, I was the golden child. I was raised in a religious/conservative dysfunctional family. It took me at 41 years old leaning to psychedelics to break the classic conditioning and seek therapy to heal and understand. I learned from my experiences take control and love yourself. You don’t have to swim in the narcissist pond choking on their poo. You can elevate to open waters. The spell can be broken and you will find that a sorry sad human created these illusions of expectation only leading your disappointments. Narcissists are wanting control because they can’t control themselves. Be careful out there✌️❤️☯️🙏🏼.
Talk about complicated family dynamics: I'm one of three children. My younger sister was the Invisible Child to my narcissistic father but the Golden Child to my narcissistic mother. My older sister was the Invisible Child to my narcissistic mother but the Golden Child to my narcissistic father.
And lucky me, I got to be the Scapegoat and the second Invisible Child for both parents.
Ex-golden child here. When I stood up to the abuse, when I finally mentioned and realized how cruel my family was being to me, I instantly became a scapegoat. Narcissistic parents hate being wronged and will completely refuse that they are wrong, thus turning you into the scapegoat. I used to change my personality and mannerisms just to appease my parents standards, making me feel less like an individual. I had so little time to individualize in my childhood that I never got the chance to feel like a real person. Upon hearing that, it took years to confront them, but that ultimately did nothing sadly.
Yes, agree.
That pressure at 6:40 is also brutal. Its an absolute hell once a golden child fails.
Yes, your experience is very similar to mine. As soon as I started to become my own person as a teenager and realised that things weren't right and started to push back, the emotional abuse began. It went on until I was in my 40's. In the end I became estranged. My mother died just over two years ago and I'm trying to work through the trauma and heal. I'm working with a therapist and now have a solid understanding and clarity about the situation. It's helped hugely.
Hey! Ex-golden child here as well and I turned into an invisible child instead of scapegoat but my mom did try to give the scapegoat lable to me.i paid a huge price including being beaten up to the point of bleeding and leaving the house for several months for few time😅.anyways I'm happy with being invisible now because now I suffer less😅😅😅
Same with me here!
Confronting any narcissists unfortunately is useless. They suck the energy out of you and never will own up to anything. I'm glad we know what they are so we can decide what to do going forward dealing with these horrible people. So what if they are blood? It's not an excuse for them to abuse us.
I was the scapegoat and the golden child, depending on my mother's mood that day. I learned pretty quick that the praise was always only a form of manipulation.
Same but when I'm the scapegoat, my mother *might* hit me.
Same
I was the golden child experiencing what u described today as an adult. Now trying to deal with my narcissistic tendencies. Thank u for the video knowledge is power.
I’m the only child of a single narcissistic parent, so I had the joy of being all three. It was incredibly confusing and I’m still trying to figure everything out.
Same here! Confusing is right, it's like we had to fill whatever character role they needed at any given moment
Wow that would be seriously confusing 😢
Now that I’m an adult, how can a parent treat their innocent children like this? I don’t understand it hurts my heart because we needed protection and didn’t get it.
Exactly :( I still don’t understand why it happened. Why would you bring a child into this world just to torture them?
😔
If I were ever to become a mother, I am NOT gonna put them through the same suffering I was subjected to! Never!
@@sophiegeetman4271 I agree I will die childless rather than put them through this!
👏👏
The Golden Child in my family, turned-into a narcissist, himself, and narcissists, seem to form, a "pecking-order" .
That is exactly what has happened in my family. My "golden child" younger brother has grown up to be as narcissistic as my mother. And, worse, he has fallen down the Q-Anon rabbit hole, because the aggressive, alt-Right attitude suits his life vision that it is always someone else's fault that his life has not worked out as he anticipated.
I think that's happening to my sister too. And she still tried to fix everything. I feel so abandoned by her, she never helped me, and she is my older sister. But that's all she could though, she feels the need to fix my parents
Yes, they do.
Golden child is my older brother. Father literally said, he's as "good as gold." He is a sadistic narcissist who sexually physically mentally and emotionally abused me for years from when I was very young. It has taken me a lifetime to overcome. And I am still on the mend
It's just very confusing because my idea of a toxic family dynamic includes name calling, yelling, criticizing, openly belitteling and fighting. But there is no fighting in my family, there is no communication at all. I don't get critizised because we skip any difficult subject and pretend were a happy family. I really want to go no contact but because I too have barely expressed my views on the relationship, and there has never been een obvious feud or problem I feel very guilty and like I don't have enough reason. even tho it has caused me stress for years. It also doesn't make it easier to put an end to it when up until now we all have been pretending and literally not voicing anything. The only thing real that comes out of there mouthes comes in the form of reallllly small passive comments.
If you feel you have to go no contact, do it and see how you feel. It may change your life
@@webster0203 recently had a conversation and set some clear boundaries. Not fully no contact, but very little contact on my terms. I feel sooo much better
@@detteh4292 I know the feeling. There are certain reasons for going no contact but everybody knows whats best for themselves. Ive been there feeling awful for separating from my parrents, telling myself they are not bad, thats what all families are like just to reconnect and be judged and insulted... like always.
I was a scapegoat that went low contact, was able to heal and find peace....its a wonderful feeling
Omg same! We had the same family dynamic! We never had fights, we weren't allowed to raise our voices. It makes it even harder to get out of this toxic environment because there was nothing "obviously" bad happening. And some times it feels like I am getting crazy
being the eldest sibling of four with a narcissistic father, I was the scapegoat. Just realizing this now as a 34 year old man. Im so thankful I recognized the shortcoming of my parents. Its allowed me to remain introspective. I treat my kids with fairness and understanding and most importantly infinite patience. They deserve it. You all deserve it.
My mom uses her past life to make me feel guilty for standing up to her.
Same here
Same.
Truuuuu
YUP and her past life to invalidate my experiences and my siblings
I was the scapegoat until I went no contact 2 years ago. I'm still healing everyday and I will never have my narcisitic mother in my life again 💯🎯❤️💪
Yes. Keep going and learn how to love yourself in a really healthy way 🙏
@@hannahoriginal4698 Thank you so much and you do the same.
@@joshslaton8604 ♥ thank you
Me too. I went no contact on Monday. It was the best thing I ever did.
Josh Slaton, glad you finally made the decision to go no contact.👍 Now to work on yourself, & let the healing begin. I really wish you all the best. My sister is a Narcissist so I'm waiting till the day my nephews & niece are able to break away from her. 😢
I am the invisible child...
My brother is scapegoat and my sister is golden child...
Today is so hard day for me, for them, for all of us...
Sometimes is to late for any changes at all...
Thank you Dr. Ramani 🌹
So true! THANK YOU! I was literally blamed for the little narcissist's motorcycle being stolen when I was TEN--and the big narcissist demon agreed that it was my fault because I should've been keeping constant watch over it out my window (in a shared, horrifically violated room with no desk, chair, or anything near the window).
Thank you, Doctor, for doing what you do. I really needed to hear this. I hope you know how much you're validating people and healing us.
BTW, I was constantly blamed for things the little narc or even the big narc did wrong, blamed in ways that defied all reason and logic. Thankfully, it made me a very logical, truth-oriented person.
I am an only child. I was all 3 - depending on how my mother felt the day. ... I'll stop here.... 😔
Same
Same here. Thank you for saying this. ❤️
Same
same!!! being an only child I was mostly invisible and then as I started realizing something was amiss and raised my voice against it, I became the scapegoat, and now that we face financial issues or there is any decision to be taken regarding my career, I am being gaslighted to believe that I was always the golden child, the apple of my parent's eyes and how they always want the best for me and have always appreciated my talents and skills.....
seriously it is so frustrating and confusing!!!
Same Isabella....many hugs and healing to you boo!
At some level the scapegoat gets it. So true. We see thru the craziness of the family and because we r simply trying to b ourselves the parents decide not to love us.
Yep. My brother knew what the score was, and suffered more. But he saw the reality and had to reconcile with it. OTOH I'm the one that has the mid-life crisis when the facade begins to crumble. There are no winners in this game.
Yep, damn right. They know how things really are, and can call the bullshit. This fact scares the narss. too!
Yeah i can relate
Yes! I’ve always had this weird relationship with my narcissistic mother. I just felt strange about her behavior and gaslighting. Because it felt like she was trying to trick me all the time.
I knew there was something wrong tbh
Very true! They try to project onto the scapegoat like their the crazy one but in truth they are the ones who are sick.
Golden Child in my childhood, and then I turned scapegoat in my teenage years because I questioned her vile opinions on certain family members, and also trying to gain independence was not to her liking.
My brother was the golden child and he didn't care about me and my sibling. It was a "look out for yourself" type of family. I was the scapegoat and my baby sibling was the forgotten child.
I feel like these roles were interchangeable in my family where my sisters and I all shifted between being the scapegoat, golden child, and invisible child at different phases of our childhood. Definitely spent the last few years creating some SERIOUS boundaries and healing.
Yes!! It was similar in mine! We all kinda switch depending on how the narcissist wants to manipulate us or pin us on eachother.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I feel like I have things in common with all three roles, but I identify as the invisible child simply because after a certain age, I felt totally invisible especially to my narcissistic father and my brother, and when I wasn't busy being invisible, my mother thought I was the cat's meow, golden child material, wanting to get me into her career path and it never felt totally right for me. So idk where I sit with all that 🤷♀️ Thoroughly confusing!
Same here, so confusing. I'm 36 and still struggling with these issues, so ridiculous
Same👀
I left and the golden child became the scapegoat and ended up leaving, now the narcissist has been trying to find someone to take care of them in old age. Oh well.
Thats great. I like a happy ending.
This frequently happens to narcissistic parents - they become more lonely as years go by, because not only do they make themselves impossible amongst their children and family, but lose friends too, because of their appaling behaviour. My mother-in-law has a scapegoat daughter, who now is sick of getting all the garbage, and has cut her mother out. She always says "I'm so old now, I can say whatever I like" - and she does, that's why more and more people shy away from her. So, she is now pretty lonely and bitter. She has told everyone who listens, that her daughter and her husband has forced her to move to an assisted home, which is not true. And she always complains, about ailments, about ageing, about the doctor who doesn't listen to her, and all that jazz. A very tiresome old lady indeed!
When I left I noticed my sister couldn't handle the scapegoat role that was thrust upon her. It freaked her out to now be the total focus of his critical attention. She grew up being the invisible child so imagine the shock to her system. I feel bad that I had to leave her to save myself
@zumzy u Hey didn't I see this exact comment in another comment? It's almost like it was copied and pasted in multiple comments. You're not spamming are you?
Edit: you can’t see it not Cus I reported that shit. It was basically the same advertisement in as many comments as they could.
@@torhildsagenghansen6074 I think my six siblings feel that they need to hate me to win our dad's love -- which of course isn't love; it's manipulation.
I am and have been my mother's scapegoat, my younger brother was the golden child that has passed away and our youngest brother is the invisible child and is autistic. I am finally walking away for good, thanks so much for this content. It is very much appreciated 🙏🏾
You just described my childhood. I'm one of three and I was the scapegoat... My siblings moved to different countries and I also moved far from my hometown. The wounds run deep and effect every aspect of my life: low self-esteem, no confidence, unsuccessful in work and relationships...
There is always hope. With God all things are possible🙏🌸
When you’re an only child you get to be all three roles depending on the Narc’s mood.
Basically, I still remember the fond slaps to my face.
Yep
Very true 😐
That's why if you have a narcissistic parent, the best thing for you is to be the only child.
@@arctic_haze if you have a narcissistic parent, it's better you don't exist anymore. The mental abuse is way beyond tolerable level. I have attempted suicide when I was 8 years old. That's how bad they fcuk your brain and emotions.
I was treated like all of them at different times, depending on what was going on.
And if I made one of them proud, the other would make me invisible or start trying to tear me down in other areas, it was like I was a pinball never knowing what 2 expect and always someone unhappy about what I was doing. If my Dad was proud my Mother was jealous. Always.
So I stayed in my room, on my bed, listening to music as much as I could to drown out the fighting.
Me to
@@jenniferdolson8148 two narcissistic parents? Mine are too. It's really bad.
jennifer dolson sane here hun 🤦🏾♀️ the worst feeling ever. I am the middle child so you know how that goes.
I was both... Scapegoat and Invisible child, there interchangeable, by my Borderline/OCP/ covert Narcopath mother. Wasn't until I started calling her out and keep my distance did I finally feel like I'm not the problem, she is...
I now know that I'm the "invisible" child in my family. I recall during my growing years that I've achieved all the honors, graduated as the valedictorian in high school. I felt that I was not recognized by my siblings. It was only my mother who attended my graduation in high school. I also used my scholarship to earn my associate degree in business secretarial. It was my father who instilled in me that I would be a great secretary, for I am highly organized & practical. Those dreams I've fulfilled. I've reached the highest level of my career as one of the few male secretaries for one of the fortune 500 companies where I live. While in the background, I have identifed the "golden child", and the scape goat, who have passed on several years ago. He & I were good buddies (the scape goat). I've been experiencing this "ignore" & discounted feeling from my siblings as of today. I was never introduced as the uncle to my nephews & nieces from the golden child, and never had the opportunity to be an uncle from my suspect narcissistic sisters' children. Thank you for clarifying the roles in a narcissistic family dynamics. I continue on educating myself to further understand what is going on with my life. I remain positive, and living my life well. Update: I've cut off ties with my narcissistic sister (a few years younger than the middle sister) & put on probation towards the middle sister, who I also think is a narcissist. The middle sister gave me a passive aggressive comment the other day that "she was impressed with the amount of education that I have that I've managed to reached my goals in life. I didn't say anything. I knew what she was trying to imply. It's best to let the narc sister do her crazy making. It's on her. I value my peace & good health.
It's too late. I was the scapegoat and my sister was the golden child. My sister is now the narcissist. I don't want to connect with her or my parents.😖
Michelle Myers I’m in the same boat. My sister is a narcissist and my brother is also. The two parents are as well. I had everyone against me, but therapy has worked wonders. Especially someone who studies attachment theory as well that’s helped me tremendously learning all about that. Has helped me become more compassionate toward these people and “laugh them off” so to speak.
Michelle Myers I went no contact with all my siblings and my mom. Best thing I did for my peace of mind. It’s been 3 years and I’m still recovering.
Same.
So sorry to hear that. Sometimes it goes that way. I hear ya....
That's exactly what happened in my family, except my one ally(former invisible child) turned into a narcissist along with the other two golden children in the family. I am all alone and ready to cut them off completely.
I was the golden child, and as I approached puberty and started to develop an independent personality, I experienced a radical fallllllllllllll from grace lol
SAME...I went to college and became my own person and my dad selected my youngest brother as the new Golden Child
Oh my goodness me too!!! I was the golden child and then became the scapegoat but it was even stronger than my sister that was previously the scapegoat. After I escaped and moved away, my mom still asked them “isn’t everything better now that destiny’s gone” when I never did a thing to them. She won’t even let them see me, they’re all supposed to hate me for absolutely no reason other than the fear of also being disowned.
My brother experienced this fall and I think it's worse for them because reality hits all at once.
you have saved me and how i view every single family member
- THANK YOU for all of this work, you are saving lives. ❤
I was an only child and invisible - I remember googling narcissism around 16 years old and finding out about the grey rock technique and I realized it was what I had been doing all my life
Usually, the golden child is the one that turns into a narcissist and carries the family tradition on to the next generation.
The scapegoat child is the one that usually escapes the narcissistic family system at some point and has a better life in the end.
Based on my observations of 2 generations of my family
In my family the opposite happend.the Golden child decided that the didn't want that role.And the scapegoat though she left the family,became the narc of hers.
lia kara wow... your experience is exactly the opposite of what I’ve noticed consistently in my family. My generation is the 3rd generation of this toxic cycle that I’ve been observing, and I’ve been the scapegoat kid since about 9. My sibling is the golden child. I can see them developing narcissistic traits, meanwhile all the years of abuse I’ve had to endure made me start seeing a good therapist who helped me see what narcissists are and the torture I was subjected to made me take therapy and this disorder very seriously, so now I’m the one breaking away and leaving, while I’m pretty sure my sibling will never ever leave. So for 3 generations in my family this rule has held true. But there was 1 case in my family where the golden child ran off in their teens and another child became the narcissist. I think it does happen, but it’s very rare.
monkeybearmax hurts when that happens doesn’t it? I used to be very close to my sibling (the golden child) and now I see them developing narcissistic traits and I don’t dare get too close or have normal expectations you’d have in healthy relationships. It hurts to know you’re slowly going to lose the best friend you ever had growing up because they’re becoming something they would never have been if it weren’t for people who should never have been allowed to become parents.
Skylie I don’t have 1 family member anymore. They are either borderline from narc abuse, narcs or very narcissistic. I’m quite lonely now
monkeybearmax hey, I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way. If it helps, you really aren’t alone in what you’re experiencing. Every person who discovers this about their family systems and leaves goes through this period of feeling a bit lost and lonely. This is totally normal, even if it hurts, let the pain wash over you, don’t deny it or suppress it, because the pain will actually help you recognise how wrong the system you grew up in was and how good it is you got out of it. You’ll eventually get to a point where you start to realise that there are a lot of good people in this world and that having romantic and platonic relationships that are good for you is much better than having a family that destroys you and everything you worked for. The important thing is for you to start becoming totally independent now and self reliant. Emotionally self-sufficient, psychologically self-healing and mentally independent. This is an important foundation stone to base the rest of who you are going to be on. Once you’ve got this established, no one will be able to fuck with you in the future. It takes time, but it does happen slowly. So don’t give up hope, okay? I don’t want to come across preachy or force anything on you, but these are experiences I’ve gone through and if this helps anyone at all then that’s good. That’s why we’re all here after all, we’re a community of victims learning to thrive now. 😊
Scapegoat here 🙋🏿♀️ I just went no contact a few days ago. I am 27 years old and I've just had enough of my mother's B.S.
Good for you! 👍🏽 Fellow scapegoat here of a narcissist mother. It took me until age 49 to finally go No Contact. You should be proud!
I stopped talking to them for 8 months, then made the mistake of contact over Christmas. Huge regret, back to no contact. Not worth it
It's been 13 years of no contact, this time. I've gone through this several times throughout my life. I'm determined to make this one the last. It's why I'm here. I have to remind myself of why I have no contact. It's still a struggle but watching things like this trigger and remind me of the abuse. I was an only child growing up and have been in all three roles. My brother was born when I was 21 so now I'm the invisible child. My brother has connections to money so he's the golden child. Just wanted to let you know there may be times when you get nostalgic or need a parent and try to reconnect. It will never change. They will always be narcissistic and they have assigned your role. It will be your fault you're not talking, not their's. I want you guys to know it's not your fault or responsibility to sacrifice yourself for a relationship that will never be supportive, fulfilling or loving. You can find other people who can take on those roles. However, it will always hurt but you are strong enough to make it through. I'm sending lots of strength and rooting for all of you who are struggling with this issue.
Good luck. Remember to remove them from all banking access, any guarantor roles on home/car, and change address for post for anything finical. My brother had his first 3 months of pay at a new job stolen, and I had my bank card and passport stolen.
I blocked my mother from my life 7 years ago, best decision I ever made. She doesn't know where I live or have my number. I only see her when I visit my sister. So maybe a total of 3 occasions during all these years
It hurts I need to keep distance from my own mother, but she is straight up evil and self absorbed!💔
Oh Doctor Ramani, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. I feel this is so common. Because my mother and I always lived by ourselves, WE were the whole family system and that led her to put me in all this roles, her treatment towards me would change according to her moods. I don't know how that's possible, but no one seems to aknowledge her real deal. The truth is she can be a whole lot of different personas. Narcissist people are scary!
Dr Ramani, you help so many people everyday. Words can not express the magnitude of your positive contribution to the world. I shudder to think where I would have been without you.
Sincerely thank you so very much.
When the scapegoat removes themselves, the dynamics change... The transition could get messy.
Someone's got to take the blame, but when they're not around, then what? 😎
Exactly! Let them thrash it out... Let them meet their own crap.
Move on, it's not your trip anymore! Wish them well in your mind, and enjoy your life.
Love and peace!
😁✔
My sister (the golden child) held resentment toward me for moving out of the house when I turned 19. During a conversation we had in our 40's, she chastised me for being selfish and only thinking of myself in my decision to leave. As far as she was concerned, all the turmoil in the family (before & after I had gone) had been caused by me. She said that my father was always right and that I was always the problem. He is a master at manipulation.
The Narc's only want to hear from you when they want to dump their crap on you or they want to know what you're doing so they can gossip about your life to others
In my family, my sister moved far away - she was mom's fav so not too much said about her. I moved out secretly so my dad couldn't stop me, also confronted the family abuse and it was determined by my dad that I was crazy after ODing and in hospital. Would he have thought differently if I'd not OD'd or gone into hospital? - I doubt it. He tried to keep me as his puppet. As long as there wasn't a man in my life to puppeteer me, he thought I was his job. The less I fought his rules, the more enmeshed I became. The harder I fought his rules, the crazier he saw me. He has no idea how much my little self adored him. He sacrificed that with his cult of self.. oh well.
When the scapegoat removes themselves they are often just replaced by someone weaker or blind to the situation who hasn't removed themselves as well, unfortunately.