Yup. I always throw it back in my Dads face like "Well you raised me so?" "Well I didn't spoil myself did I?" And he stopped doing it because I didn't feel guilty anymore. Also asking for our basic needs to be met and not abused on a daily basis isn't being spoiled.
Seriously…it’s literally like they have their own phrase book - got called the exact same thing and much worse hundreds of times…merriam websters book of narcissistic parents phraseology/go to phrases.
@@SjofnBM1989I agree. I finally stood up to my dad emotionally shaming and gaslighting me, as I’ve had enough. He played the victim of course, but I just don’t care anymore. My needs and feelings matter too. Thanks for sharing . ❤
OMG. My ex girlfriend's mother told me her daughter was a spoiled rotten brat. I always questioned why her mother would say that?? I see it now cause she is.
For 20 years we always had to go to one family member's house for holidays and we always asked what we can do to help what we can bring and we're told no no don't bring anything I've got it all handled. Then we get there and offer to help some more and told no no got it all handled. And then after dinner and cleaning up they will say under their breath how they never want to do another dinner because it's just so much work. You can't win
This was the powerful quote Dr Ramani said in this video that I needed right now: “In healthy relationships, we maintain constant awareness of the other, including the sacrifices they have made, and we behave in accordance with that. We compromise as well. We offer gratitude, but it's a two way street, but they see us too. In a healthy relationships, the sacrifices someone else made are not weaponized as a way to mobilize people to do something”. Thank you! ❤❤❤
Yes, but when you are raised in BS, your BS metre is broken from the start. We literally have to be told and to observe what normal is because what we lived in was and is so abnormal.
@jenniferfraser1854, that is true. There is a learning and growing process for sure, but there's so much help available, we can reach out, get the help we need, and learn the truth and live in the actual truth. Recovery is possible and the journey is so beautiful ❤
@@luvfoto98 I agree with you. I am just saying it's a much harder process if we can't see normal. Abnormal affects us in so many ways, ways we are not even aware of.
What did the Queen say in response to all Harry and Meghan's victim/martyr nonsense? She said, "Recollections may vary". 😂😂😂 She was a smart woman and couldn't be fooled by those two. Hurt by them, yes, but not fooled.
@@jenniferfraser1854 I believe what they told.Basically they broke the family cycle.If they weren't move away,Meghan would have died just like Harry's mother. I think it's not healthy that the mother died because of paparazzis accidentally and the father has a new wife who was already before the first wife and inbetween as well,plus Andrew is pedo or at least maybe pedo. Basically if they weren't rich and royal we were telling what a dysfunctional family. William and Kate don't break the cycle and they are accepted.Just my opinion.But of course if H&M wanted to having a private life they should have not given so many interview and showing themselves that much in front of the public cause they are clown because of it.
Dr Ramani! You clearly know my mother! I have been listening to her “sacrifices” for 50 years. Actual statements made by her when I was a child, “I gave up my life to have children” “don’t ever have kids, they will ruin your life” “you shouldn’t have kids, you are too selfish” “being a mother is a thankless job so I’ve had to learn to live without the thank you’s” I remember constantly feeling guilty for being alive and knowing that I could never ever pay her back for “all the things she has done for me”.
My mother is exactly the same...my "favourite" is: "When your father died (I was 6 when that happened) I took care of you and I sacrificied so much for you!!
Dear God this is my mother ! I just got off of an hour phone call with her before happening across this video. It was the usual solid hour of whining, complaining, envy/ jealousy and extra martyrdom because mothers day is coming up and im not going to be able to visit her. She even sent me a text photo of a bouquet of flowers sitting on her neighbor’s doorstep that her son sent his mother for Mother’s Day. Saying “Wasnt that nice of her son?” My mother has the subtlety of a sledgehammer!
@@lorettanericcio-bohlman567 In a way I do. I put the phone on speaker and put it in my front shirt pocket and go about my business doing whatever household chores that need to be done. All I really have to do is mutter Uh huh.Really? Wow! Unbelievable! And a lot of “Yups” every now and then and for all intents and purposes I don’t even have to be there. She doesn’t even realize ive offered nothing to the conversation. Just agree with everything she says and be her emotional tampon till she runs out of steam and has gotten her belly full of validation and unbridled cynicism out and then its all over. Its such fun. 🤦♂️
Yes! I got very sick at age 22 and needed brain surgery. I am now in my 40s. My nmom plans out every holiday and demands I clear out the entire weekend. She starts the invite with "Remember all we did for you when you were sick?" My father even sent me a long email once about how they took care of me after brain surgery and I am forever in debt to them. As if I had a choice.
This is my mother completely! The “woe is me” got so tiresome. She was always even jealous of myself and my siblings. Oh and she always said we owed her!
Ha my mom does this too, if I express hurt by something she did, she plays the ‘I’m a terrible mother card’, rarely taking responsibility, It’s maddening.
Covert narc mom wants to know everybody's financial information and tries to guilt trip and think of schemes to get other people's money. Tried to dictate all of he kids careers. I had to pretend like I was interested in the career she tried to pick for me, then just said I didn't get in to avoid her toxic, invalidating reactions. I was quietly pursuing my own goals. She then went off and lied to everyone who would listen I must've done poorly in the interviews because of poor social skills. LOL!
I am sitting in an empty house with 2 suitcases of my belongs in a foreign country after dumped by a narcissist. Thank you Dr. Ramani for your expertise, free help resources and everything you have done for me in this darkest time of my life. The world needs more heroes like you.
Good riddance dear you will find your way even if it does take time, find your self worth narcissists sneak into your life when your vulnerability is greater than your self worth , never give up
Oh honey, that must be completely terrifying!! It's usually done. They usually discard at the most horrific opportune times. Times you would never think anyone would do anything like this to another person.
After I raised up to 325k trading with her I bought a new House and a car here in the states 🇺🇸🇺🇸 also paid for my son's surgery (Oscar). Glory to God.shalom.
Whenever I was going through something, my mother would always give me a reason that her problems were worse and I had to see her as the one going through worse than what I was going through at that moment. It's terrible to realize this once you know what narcissism is. You feel that it is not okay but you don't understand it.
My hubby does this….I will say (not every time because it gets monotonous) “Oh, for goodness sake, it’s not a competition.” “Huh? What? I was just sharing….” And then continue his one upping me.
They have very little ability to emphasize. They also weaponize personal information and struggles (including gossiping and embellishing to others). I just avoid them when it comes to almost everything. I've made the mistake of sharing with narcissists in the past and just getting burned by their personalities. Even sharing with otherwise normal people but that information getting into the hands of narcs. Always spun into some nonsense that it's not; always something "wrong" with everyone else. They have lots of internal shame, insecurities, and anger. Instead of dealing with it internally they turn around and put it back on you.
Sadly those who have been scapegoated and actually have lived thru immense trauma and injustices are often lumped into this with them and that's not true,, we are not entitled or perpetual victims but when the bare minimums have been denied and your trauma changed the trajectory of your life well the reality is it does leave you with natural envy of the things that others have normally (healthy parents, family, a stable foundation, healthy development, capacity in your nervous system to function, support, understanding) differences are we don't exploit and use others to acquire those things, we also don't hate others even though we feel envy, I think that distinction should be made because so many survivors are being labelled as vulnerable narcs. Thanks as always for the insight and content.
Was just thinking this! Had to find yet another therapist because they apparently see me this way and think I should just get over it and be with the betrayers anyway! Ugh so frustrating. You'd think therapists could at least relate to betrayal and empathize instead of blaming us for setting boundaries. I will never understand why so many don't.
I don't know how to explain this, it's like they choose the victims who are closest to who they wish they were like and they accuse you of doing things that they are themselves doing, almost like they are talking into a mirror. It is bizarre.
Definitely one of the strong strategies of a narcissist, especially in guilt-tripping kids as a parent. It’s mind boggling how resourceful and crafty narcissists are to achieve their wants at the cost of sanity of those around them. Not even their own children are spared!
The Triad of Dysfunctional Relationship Roles: Victim, Villain, and Hero (Rescuer). I was told early on in my Healing Journey, "If you play ANY ONE of these roles - you'll eventually play ALL of them, before the relationship ends." Great video, Ramani !
My family are masters at guilt and martyrdom. It’s caused me a lot of pain and stress. So tired of it. Not engaging in it and focusing on myself. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
I avoid people whom in one breath disrespect and mistreat people but shortly play victim after they get caught. These are usually the biggest narcs on the planet. I recently was smeared by a male of this nature. He couldn't stand how I was naturally liked by people and smeared my name to anyone who would listen. He accused me of manipulating people into liking me with lies. Wherein it was him who was doing this EXACT thing. When I found out it was him all along, I stopped hanging out with everyone. Not only him but the people who trailed behind him and listened to his advice to mistreat me. Once that happened other mutual friends who were trying to speak on his behalf gave me this sob story about his mother, his life blah blah. To that I said, not my problem. He's not the only one who has gone through hardships and that is not an excuse to bully another person who did nothing to you ,but exist and not give you preferential treatment(we're both from the same culture and I guess he thought I should worship him? LOL). I too have lived my life in misery once upon a time. I was raised by two narcissist and was cared for by a borderline when they lost custody of me at some point. And not once did I triangulated people, manipulated people and went on a smear campaign against someone I don't even know because I'm insecure. I find it funny that these people can try so hard to ruin a person's life and when they are caught red handed will play victim... And believe it! Be careful out there. These Narcs are losing their minds that their methods are being exposed. Keep your discernment up. The shift is gonna wild.
It is important to remember that it is like a sliding scale, not 1 or 0 (all or nothing), like some will have us believe; that it is only one in a hundred or some such. From there it is about "flavours".
@@Jae-by3hf is beyond frustrating and it's insulting. It's like screw what they did to you, you should just excuse it because they got it hard. Like you, the target, don't have your own pay struggles. I swear enablers are the worst
I can really relate to this; I'm experiencing something similar. As I got older, my father's behaviour worsened. Following my parents' separation, he became more unpredictable, making unsolicited late-night calls to my mother and even stalking her, which led to his arrest. His manipulative behaviour intensified when my mother started a new relationship. This pattern continued across his relationships, all failing due to his controlling and manipulative nature. Even now, he questions my decisions and achievements, though fortunately, my daughter has strong boundaries and remains independent. Recently, during a family meeting, he revealed a potential prostate cancer diagnosis (not confirmed yet) but mixed this with manipulative requests for help with his house. Despite the seriousness of his health, his approach was self-serving, demanding immediate help without considering our schedules. When I attempted to get more involved in his healthcare, he dismissed me, later pressing for urgent help on personal tasks. This cycle of manipulation and guilt-tripping highlights the deep impact of his narcissism, presenting ongoing challenges in establishing and maintaining necessary boundaries.
There's this strange thing I've come across which is folks who appear to be on some kind of competition every time you are under the weather or needing care time. It's as though they are competing to be needing more care time than you and feeling worse than you. It's literally some sort of competition. Very weird.
@Webnut Yes, exactly, - competitive victimhood. Reference the behaviour of a certain former President right now if anyone wants to observe and witness a real-life portrayal of how it looks and is played out !!
I thought most of my boyfriends and friends were better than me. I put them on a pedestal, and thought I was messed up/less than, so thought I was so lucky they wanted to be my friend/boyfriend. It got me sucked into and stuck in bad relationships. Now I know they are lucky to have me in their life. I have value too. Looking for mutuality where we both see each other and there’s more equality balance and symmetrical relationships where it is a two way street. . Not letting anyone have that ‘power’ over me ever again. I matter too. Thank you Dr Ramani. ❤
My jaw actually dropped reading the title because after processing and accepting that I had gone through abuse with my sister, I began describing so many of the things that she did as “self-inflicted martyrdom.” She has had everything handed to her & refuses to give anything back without guilting or shaming you first, does the less than the bare minimum & believes she is a hero
Being with my ex narc for the past 8 yrs. made me observe this very pattern. I think they wanted to feel very important in a way that is disturbing. Instead of building trust with their intimate partners, they destroy the trust that they built with you (in that case lying when they tried to put you in their pedestal). Once they have a committed partner, they can’t stand being loved authentically by one person. Instead they go on and prey on other women that is susceptible to their love bombing. My ex narc was a compulsive pursuer in a relationship. He would go back and forth to the women he were involved before or try to meet women in complicated situation so that going public isn’t an option while having you as their main supply. In the end they destroy the very person that loved them. They are like toddlers testing your love for them. Showing and telling them you love them isn’t enough, they will cheat on your face to make you feel inadequate even if you are more than they deserve. They want to test your love for them so they keep hurting you and when you have enough of their abuse, you leave. Then they tell you, ‘you never loved me because you abandon me’. Well in fact it’s their actions and narcissistic behavior that made you leave or in other cases they discard you and will give silly reasons of the discard. Mine would use, ‘she’s crazy’, ‘she’s a nega-star’, ‘she insults me’, ‘she cheated on me’ et al. So with this pattern of infidelities and emotional abuse (who knows what else) it’s better to walk away. I did walk away and is now rebuilding my life with our daughter. We are struggling financially because I’m not earning enough to provide for my daughter but now we get to laugh and bring with us sunshine every day. No lies, no abuse and no fake love. We only live once, forgive yourself and move forward but never forget the lesson that narc abuse taught you. That is to respect yourself to walk away from what’s hurting and destroying you. That you deserve a life of solitude, happiness and love. Hugs*** :) Additionally I got to know about my narc husband bad ways when I reach out to a private detective digitalinvestigate@gmail.com for help he did a perfect work for me I can see everything he’s doing on his device.
Thank you 🙏 dr Ramani. Living your life like you constantly owe to your parents for all the sacrifices they made for you is more than a child should bear.
Yes so true and so very sad! Recognizing this mad mega lifelong ultimate victim narration was one of the things that helped me understand and identify what I might be dealing with. I knew something was off as a young young child before I even had a vocabulary for it. Specifically in certain family members! The endless wallowing, validation seeking and shadow blaming makes me cringe as well! When I am talking on the phone to one of these terminal victim family members, my partner knows it right away. No bueno! This scheme has outlived its usefulness! What a way to exist in life!
My Narc Ex would generously let me watch a film on his TV, thus sacrificing his ritualistic viewing of Sports. Then later on in the day he'd be very quiet and sullen, then suddenly rage at me saying how he can never do anything in his own place demanding I give him space. 🍒
I am currently dealing with this very thing with one of the narcissists in my orbit. This is super timely and super helpful. I am not crazy - what is going on (and has been for a long time) is EXACTLY what I suspected it was!
Oh yes! Thank-you for this validating video❤ My Ex tried many times to be the victim when I called him out for his unfaithful behavior. He reacted with Martyr-Vibes like a fake heart-attack, painful kidney stones, or he would cry like a helpless little boy whose mother abandonned him. These reactions kept me stuck, but the other times that he reacted raging loud at me, made it it so scary and unsettling that I could finally leave him for ever.
Yep - the narc that switches between these modes is exhausting. It’s literally all about them & whether the outside world is treating them unfairly or whether you’re not behaving & doing things their way (the “right” and only way)… it’s an unbelievable way to exist & such an unaccountable self-centred take on the world when you actually break it down.
@@han1nja Right! I forget to mention that aspect too. He switched not only to victimize himself but he claimed "not to be treated fairly". We can be glad to keep away from such manipulation. Keep safe🙏🏻🪷
When my mother says she "sacrificed her life for me", I now tell her, that was her choice that she made and she is responsible for her choices. For years, it did make me feel guilty, but now I tell her, who asked you to sacrifice your life? That was your choice.
I think noticing and avoiding the sense of guilt in all of my relationships is paramount for me, otherwise I literally start to feel unwell, tired, deflated, listless… and it happens so subtly… well … no more! Thank you Dr Ramani, you truly are a gem 💎
I think this is why I isolate myself and keep my guard up around good people. Everything good that was done for me was used as leverage against me. A total mindf#%k for a child to endure!
Yep. My mum down to a 't'. Also an ex-friend. Bailed on that one when the reciprocity wasn't there when I needed it, and I got the martyr treatment instead.
My sister who I have gone no contact will always say look at everything I have done for you. You are so thankless. There are always strings attached, just like how my father was.
Ugh! That's the worst trait. It's horrible when you grow up with a narcissistic sibling. To hear their version of our childhood they were a true Cinderella. Meanwhile the rest of us remember them as the evil step sister, always taking and always bullying.
Every dinnertime at home. Dad complained about the food and we listened to all the "bastards" that were screwing him over at work. It was the same every night for years. The irony is that he was a very good scientist--47 patents--and it was his miserable personality that held his career in check. No one could stand him.
My sibling informed me, my nieces and nephew suffered because I wasnt unable to have children..apparently they were entitled to cousins their own age…the lack of empathy floored me
"Strings Attached! Beware!!" is the nature of the warning thoughts my head would give me, when narcs came proffering. Today i am grateful for that, as well as improved discernment you & other YT therapists have provided. TY!!! ❤❤
My mom jumped from cross to pedestal right to the end. I just wanted her to come down to earth, tale some accountability and apologize. Gave up on that eventually but had to grieve o er time.
My mom and dad did the darvo thing to me yesterday. I rescued and tried to take care of an abandoned baby squirrel, only to have him sadly pass way. He was very sweet and followed me around like I was his mom. When I expressed sadness about him passing, my dad recoiled in disgust and criticized me for being sad! He always does this to me and I’ve had enough. I stood up to him and said I am human and allowed to have emotions. He then twisted it and told my mom I said he didn’t care about animals!A total lie! So then my mom came at me criticizing me for it! I told her that’s not true and not what happened, and that I am allowed to feel sad for the squirrel baby passing. Ridiculous I even have to defend that. So messed up. Fully aware of what it is. Keeping my distance. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Sorry you have such a-hole parents… but at least you’re aware of it & protecting your sanity & right to express yourself & your emotions regardless. My kids have to do this a lot with their dad & I’ve taught them to just let it wash over them & not buy into the drama & emotional manipulation he constantly throws at them.
Yes my “mother” would frequently show me pictures and verbally remind me of how she used to look before she had me and gained weight, always showing me how nicely her clothes used to fit her, and how everyone thought she was a model. This was the so called “life and happiness” she gave up just so I can have life.
Wow, Dr. Ramani! It’s like you knew my mother. While I didn’t have the vocabulary for it yet, by the time I was in my 20s I understood that something was deeply wrong with her that apparently most people couldn’t see. She was a communal narcissist, and martyrdom was one of her favorite tools of control. We owed her eternally for the sacrifices that nobody asked her to make. Thank you for putting it into words and for validating my experience as the never-good-enough daughter of the public do-gooder.
As a child and adolescent, of course I had no conceptualization of narcissistic personality styles. I knew a few things about my mother though. She was highly manipulative (through instilling guilt), controlling, dominant. An alcoholic, she would often go off with her rants and raves with both my sister and me. I was on my hands and knees cleaning people's homes so that both of you could have better lives. You had a roof over your head, food to eat, lots of treats and were the best dressed. She would also play my sister and me off against each other. It was horrific. Towards the end of her life she had completely rewritten our history. The extreme domestic violence, my never being good enough, a failure was never acknowledged. This went on well into my adulthood until I realized what was really going on. At age 16 I was seeing a psychologist four times a week before high school classes started. My therapist told me that I wasn't thinking my own thoughts but that I was thinking my mother's thoughts. Manipulation through guilt and all pervasive. Yes, she was the victim martyr. Because I didn't meet her expectations of becoming an M.D., I had failed her. I started to take my life back and of course, she resisted my attempts. Nonetheless, I did what I believed I needed to do with my life. I completed my studies in clinical and trauma psych. Of course, this still wasn't good enough to satisfy her unending demands. Shortly before her death I finally confronted her about everything, our history. Her denial was strong. At this point I simply told her that I would never see her again. And I didn't. She was predeceased by my sister three three days before she passed. She died alone. Do I have any guilt or remorse? Absolutely not. I had tried everything I could to appease her. As my therapist had said to me during adolescence, it's either her or you. This is a difficult decision that you have to make. But for your own mental health and wellness I would urge you to have no further contact with her. That's exactly what Dr.B had told me. But I didn't act on his advice until much later in adulthood. As a result, I paid the price. A complex trauma bond, anxiety, depression and c-ptsd. I paid the ultimate price as the child and adult child of a victim martyr narcissist. Finally, to anyone reading this, I will say save yourself because you can never save them. Disengage. Walk away. Choose your own path in life.
My ex is so this…he’s a doctor and is angry, n bitter, petty and thinks he deserves more than he has and doctors before him were in a better environment to make money and nothing was ever caused by him…
Why does the medical profession seem like it has such high levels of narcissism? So many claiming they want to "help people" (as if other professions don't do that) but are just status-driven people. Then they get stuck with extreme levels of debt and interest payments and pay very high taxes that limits their disposable income, yet try to live the lifestyle. My covert narc mom was adamant I be a doctor for a living (her unlived career goal). She's toxic and invalidating so to avoid her nasty reactions I had to pretend to be interested and just said I didn't get. I quietly pursued my own dreams. The whole narrative since then is I didn't pass the interviews because I must have poor social skills and I'm not cut out for an elite career. Lol, okay, Narcissa.
Well it is harder now for doctors in the u.s. the medical education costs are $250k or more. Unless you have family wealth, youre in a huge debt and with inflation, the earnings aren't as high as decades ago. Plus they can't easily be independent anymore, most have to work for a hospital network b/c of medical malpractice insurance cost
Being told from six years old that my very existence was going to make my mother die/collapse/get cancer from the sacrifice she made simply for making THE CHOICE to have a child.
@@simonecrevecoeur thank you @simonecrevecoeur really, and you’re right it was but that’s one of the more “sedate” cruelties she exacted, worse still, she stopped or never did love me but I can’t for all the life of me leave and stop 🛑 loving her. Crazy making. Thank you again for showing your support ♥️
Yay! The entirety of my life is listening to the cabal of people who are out to get my wife (of course I’m on the list). Last night, I got to listen to a 20 minute lecture about narcissism, and how literally everybody else in her life is a narcissist who is persecuting her and ruining her life.
This is spot on, Dr.Ramani! My ex said that «I left my job because of you» (not true, he lost it!), «I left the restaurant and my friend 30 minutes earlier to talk with you»(when I had already told him that I would call him later because my kids were not sleeping yet. ) «I chose YOU over many other women»🤭 count yourself lucky…😏
This is the main reason I stopped accepting gifts and money from my mother. She has 2 moods: Trauma dumper or humble bragger. She's allergic to emotional connection with me but feels her gift giving makes up for it. I politely decline or donated her gifts throughout years. Not in the mood for her shenanigans.
My parents refuse to visit my family (me, wife, kids) -- going on for 12 years. My dad would guilt tripping me that he is growing old (for the past 20 years) or make excuses about their health. Then next thing I hear is he went on international trip for several weeks. The last call my dad asked if I come back to visit them (like i did every year). I said no, I have a lot of things going on, and he starts guilt tripping me about how won't live to the end of the year. Then literally few minutes later, he asked me to invest in commercial building with him to do charity work. Unbelievable!
And if we 'just don't fall for it', they will ramp up level by level to get something that will work and they will go from vulnerable needy narcissism to malignant narcissism and then into secondary sociopath behavior!! Am dealing with it now 😢
My mother and mother in law to a tee! Some of the phrases they’d use are laughable. My mother told me that “I owe her and she owns me.” I have distanced myself from both of them for my own sanity and the reality is, we don’t have much to talk about because I don’t want to listen to their crap. Listening to that selfish drivel is time I will never get back.
lol sounds exactly like my ex husband who spends all his time emotionally manipulating our almost adult kids now… it’s very sad & I constantly have to educate them about how the things he says to them are emotionally manipulative 🤦🏻♀️
They don't even have to say, they act like it with every look and huff. They think they can do something small for you, whilst they're living it up and you should be grateful!
9:26 this was literally my ex-wife to a T! I fell for it too for the longest time. Spent almost 8 years believing her BS. Took almost 8 years to see & recognize the martyr vibe & tactics. I’m so thankful someone is actually talking about it. I don’t feel so crazy now knowing that it’s an actual thing narcissists do.
I’m a practicing clinician with 10 years of experience and I learn an incredible amount of information from your channel, I’m actively applying this to my own relationship and it’s extremely validating to consider ending this relationship with a partner who falls high on the vulnerable narcissism scale, likely moderate on the autism spectrum and a childhood marked with physical and emotional abuse
My step mother (who I believe is a combo of histrionic & narcissistic) likes to tell me (usually after she’s done or said something AWFUL) that she loves & cares for me soooooo much, that she & my dad gave up the idea of having their own children on my behalf… because “I was such a sensitive child” (I’m 40 now mind you, not a child or a moron) … funny thing is, I know full well that she had a full hysterectomy at 28 because of a medical condition 😑 I sometimes remind her of this fact, but it doesn’t really deter her from bringing her version up time & time again… it’s truly pathological
Growing up in a cluster b family temptations to conform to a descriptive of who you are suppose to be to everyone else was everywhere. Yet there were lessons I found from unexpected messengers to help move through those obstacles. Lessons were learned through watching others as a child who chose a different way of seeing the world. I remember a gentle man who told me he didn’t have to envy because his mind could imagine and his hands could work. As a child it was like a door opening up to a room filled with possibilities. I remember a gentle woman who told me she buffers hurt intended by others through wearing the world like a loose coat. If she gave a gift it was given freely. If she did a kindness for another the joy was in the work not needing a specific response in return. The work of our hands and the freedom of our hearts was their lived message to me. They will never know how much they helped me cope with family dynamics. Dr Ramani thank you for being another voice to guide others through obstacles.
The last words mother said (screamed At) to me "we help your sister and not you because she pays us $100 and lunch every time!! You can't can you!?!?" Fathers was "when are you leaving? sorry you're sick, good luck with that" as he turned, walking away chucking at me. I've been terminally ill 2 yrs but can't pay so they evicted me and stole my little 5th wheel home I purchased in '17 as well as paid rent since my purchase. Now homeless w/16+y/o service dog Bandit also disabled (in a wheelchair).
my mom is the exactly what you are describing. how do i set boundaries in a productive way, without her making this all about herself and about how ungrateful i am?
My mother = narcissist + munchausen by proxy (for sure!!!) When I was in my thirties forties (?), someone spoke to me about their childhood and then I chimed in about mine. We learned that our mothers played the martyr. Yet people in our circle never came forward to (at least) offer us (the child) some support or words of comfort. But, instead...they wanted to see what the mother "cooked up" today! And, then...more nightmares for me.
So I add another narcissist style that my mother has. The grandiouse, malignat and the martyr. Today is the mother’s days in my Country, I felt the need to contact her just to not feel guilty, and my brother contacted me trying to convince me to contact my mom believing that I upset and that I need to have her another chance . I’m not upset I’m exhausted and it has been for years. My whole life . I grew up hearing how much she sacrificed for me when I was a baby and a child. So understanding that need was coming from guilt and not genuinely desire. The last 5 months with no contact has been peaceful and in harmony with my life. I have been more and more in contact with myself.
I can relate! I have always contacted my mother on Mother’s Day out of guilt and obligation. This is the first year I will not be contacting her. It’s time to let that go.
@@heyitsme5469 I wish you all the strength you already have in your interior. It has been challenging for me. Almost everyone in my family see me as the villain in the story. Mother's day is a challenge for us: is the door to welcome more of our self love, self worth and reminder that our reason to let that go is enough and worth it.
My mother has told me numerous times since I started being brutally honest with her "I bent over backwards for you!" When I responded, "Really? What have you done?" she got angrier and stormed off, not giving me an answer. Lol. No. We don't play these guilt games anymore. I call her "my martyr" rather than my mother. Thanks, Dr. Ramani.
My mother and grand mother 100%. And yet, as a parent of two, it is my experience that parenting is the ultimate ego transforming exercise and Yes,, it does include some secrafices that are part of the job description. I grew up reminded every day how much i owe them
Genuinely giving people don’t care about getting credit. They just do goods because they want to see good things happen for people. If someone does something and holds it against you, they’re not giving to be caring, there is some type of unspoken transaction that they expect.
YES so very excellently described and so helpful to hear it described in this way!! I'm dealing with it now and it's extremely stressful, will appreciate any prayers anyone wants to lift for me to get out of this logistical situation and away from all of it without having to get help from any of the narcissists
Dr. RAMNI you nailed it. "She held back her wants, to give to others " mentality. Yep, thats my Ex girlfriend. She says she gave so many sacrifices to be in a relationship with me. "Woe is me"
Sexlessness. Sharing a bed with someone who doesn’t acknowledge you are a sexual being hurts so much. I was in a sexless marriage for years. Being a woman with a high libido, I felt inadequate. Worst I feel invisible. The man who was “supposed” to want me, just didn’t. We talked about it many times, more than I can recall now. It was always me. I wanted too much - once a week was too much for him. I didn’t initiate - he was always complaining of headaches, stomaches, always stressed, always tired. I was too sexual - when being subtle doesn’t work, what is next? Explicitly saying I wanted sex. Oh but then it was not appropriate. Conversations would end up with him saying he didn’t feel desired or I made him feel emasculated because he didn’t want sex as much as I did. Yeah, it was always me. I could never win. While we were dating we would have a decent amount of sex, it was good. The first huge red flag was not having sex in our honeymoon - which I ignored. It rapidly decrease to once a week, then every other week. Years gone by it was months in between, by the time we divorced it was over a year with no sex. I cried myself to sleep more times that I can count. I didn’t understand what was wrong with me. Was I that undesirable? Was I repulsive? After those conversations, I just stopped trying, initiating, mentioning sex. We were still loving - holding hands, hugging, kissing - but sex was off the table. He then cheated on me. Swore he had sex only 4 times in a year (or more) long affair. It didn’t matter. For years my self worth was damaged by him, years of low self esteem, years of feeling less of a woman, the marriage that was more than over, waiting in hospice, really ended. Funny how things are, I asked him for a divorce, he manipulated me into staying, next day his infidelity came to light. I was out as soon as I could. Best thing of my life. Additionally, That feeling when your partner cheated and you don't have the courage to leave him / her so you just death with the pain and live everyday asking questions about your worth. This pain is different from the cheating one_living and seeing him everywhere anticipating when he or she do it again. The best thing is to hire a private investigator digitalinvestigate@gmail.com to help you spy on their cellphone remotely just like he did for me...
An ex boyfriend always played the victim and thought everyone was out to get him, including me. He would smoke too much pot, so pass out, then accuse me of drugging him! We had an old van that always broke down, and he thought my family was sabotaging the motor! I couldn’t reassure him no matter what I said or did. He couldn’t keep a normal job because there was always something wrong with the boss. Looking back, I can see how unhealthy it was for me and it sucked me in by me feeling bad for him and wanting to help. My therapist thinks he was actually paranoid schizophrenic sociopathic and narcissistic! So grateful I got away from him eventually. Super aware of these toxic things now. Prioritizing my safety and well being. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
This helped me, that is my mother. I was feeling bad for her a few days ago thinking about some of the things she has told me that happened to her, it's very hard.
Omg! I never thought in terms of my dad being a 'martyr.' But yes, he was a classic vulnerable narcissist who said countless times in our lives that it wasn't his choice to have children. So I'd asked whose choice was it? The churche's! My brother and I were on to this nonsense from a very early age and asked him for nothing. My two sisters got sucked in by this damaging messaging. This video hit home every second from beginning to end. And the good news is I basically laughed throughout. I've had enough therapy that I could laugh!
I know a mother like this. Every situation is about her. She's been financially supported, and cared for by her children for years, but when things don't go her way, it's, "I gave up everything to be a mother. But now look at me, I have nothing." But she does. Just not as much as she deserves? At times, I've heard her say, "look at what so-and-so did for me. Isn't that nice?" Seems like she's trying to hint that others should do the same. I don't know if she appreciates the unconditional love and compassion she has too.
I think it's cool that people give their all to their charity causes. Keep encouraging people to do good for others and the environment, but don't lose yourself in the process.
I was just going to say that Self righteous narcissists always act like martyrs, Dr. Ramani said that. Proud that I am able to see things like Dr. Ramani😃
What I heard from my mother my whole life, was I gave my life for you. That was her rendition of I gave birth to you. To her it was her giving her life for us.
It can also look like- I do everything for everyone, I give and give and I get nothing back. Everyone treats me like a second class citizen I need people to feel bad for me. One you notice this, it’s so disgusting, that a human would stoop low to tug on heart strings. Even if you offer assistance, they may dislike you for trying to help because they aren’t interested in helping. The currency is in feeling bad for them.
That's so true. My mom is entitled and envious. Superficial and focuses on materialism. She would blame everyone and every entity but herself. Somebody must hate me. Or if she breaks something because she is clumsy and impatient and goes too fast she will say, "it was a freaky thing, it just fell." Or "it just broke." My mom always did guilt trips to manipulate me into doing something she favored.
Sometimes it's just little things, like always denying themself anything I offer (and thereby denying me the "opportunity" to give or do anything for them)(and then conversely complaining at a later date that I never do this or that). They get the dual benefit of not allowing me to have any type of perceived upper hand because I did something nice, and being the constant martyr in that he/she "doesn't need anything." EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION IN THESE RELATIONSHIPS IS FRAUGHT WITH WEIRD UNDERCURRENTS, MOTIVATIONS, MANIPULATIONS. IT'S JUST WEIRD CONSTANTLY. I grew up with a mother like this and have had a partner like this for 15 years. NOTHING EVER FEELS NORMAL, not even trying to say "good morning" or "good night." They are always looking for a look or a tone or a hidden meaning in every little thing you say, or applying a meaning that they perceive, that's not what you said or intended in the slightest. There is no subject you can have a normal conversation about, so forget about anything difficult. They hear things that you didn't even say because they apply their insecurities to everything. It's a maddening and exhausting way to live. I just want to live with somebody who lets me be grumpy when I feel grumpy (doesn't criticize or make it about them), who lets me be silly when I feel silly (again doesn't make it about them and think that I'm criticizing them, or doesn't belittle me for acting goofy), who doesn't think that everything I do/think/feel, every look on my face, every tone in my voice, is about them. I'm sick of the little lies, the constant mental games, the one-upsmanship about EVERYTHING.
Just want to thank you for writing this because I adopted that behavior from my mother and am I finally acknowledging I've been doing that to the love of my life for most of our relationship. If there's anything else about your mom's behavior that you feel okay to write down, reply to this comment please (for the sake of having one less matyr-victim narc in this world). Thanks for your help 💛
These are quite important aspects of the relationship with my mother. And those vulnerable narcissists can become as nasty as other kinds once their anger/fury is triggered. Thank you, Dr. R. 🙏🏻
My mother is good at this. NC with her now but any time she would invite me to some family event/holiday/random get together and I hesitated at all, she would say "well I don't want you to make a command performance." Not ironically, not jokingly. It always messed with my head. Another confusing part is that she always seems to have horrible self worth but also demands loyalty and obedience. I couldn't clock the narcissism for a long time.
My husband "apple pie, Chevrolet and screw him" his favorite saying. My view, he, generally, screws himself. Maybe karma blowing back on him, who knows. So tired of hearing how everyone is out to screw him. This way, it's someone else's fault and never his, no accountability.
This reminds me of people who adopt children for selfish reasons but act like martyrs and are mean to the children.
Like people who have their own children for these reasons.
Mommy dearest movie about Joan crawford
U don't need to get to adoption. Most parents r bad parents to their own, & they want to have them.
My mom. Literally played martyr today.
Mine
This was my parents. Every. Day. I was the "spoiled rotten lazy brat" who apparently did not deserve the air I breathed.
Yup.
I always throw it back in my Dads face like "Well you raised me so?"
"Well I didn't spoil myself did I?" And he stopped doing it because I didn't feel guilty anymore.
Also asking for our basic needs to be met and not abused on a daily basis isn't being spoiled.
Seriously…it’s literally like they have their own phrase book - got called the exact same thing and much worse hundreds of times…merriam websters book of narcissistic parents phraseology/go to phrases.
@@SjofnBM1989I agree. I finally stood up to my dad emotionally shaming and gaslighting me, as I’ve had enough. He played the victim of course, but I just don’t care anymore. My needs and feelings matter too. Thanks for sharing . ❤
OMG. My ex girlfriend's mother told me her daughter was a spoiled rotten brat. I always questioned why her mother would say that??
I see it now cause she is.
For 20 years we always had to go to one family member's house for holidays and we always asked what we can do to help what we can bring and we're told no no don't bring anything I've got it all handled.
Then we get there and offer to help some more and told no no got it all handled.
And then after dinner and cleaning up they will say under their breath how they never want to do another dinner because it's just so much work.
You can't win
This was the powerful quote Dr Ramani said in this video that I needed right now: “In healthy relationships, we maintain constant awareness of the other, including the sacrifices they have made, and we behave in accordance with that. We compromise as well. We offer gratitude, but it's a two way street, but they see us too. In a healthy relationships, the sacrifices someone else made are not weaponized as a way to mobilize people to do something”. Thank you! ❤❤❤
Agreed
Yes, but when you are raised in BS, your BS metre is broken from the start. We literally have to be told and to observe what normal is because what we lived in was and is so abnormal.
@jenniferfraser1854, that is true. There is a learning and growing process for sure, but there's so much help available, we can reach out, get the help we need, and learn the truth and live in the actual truth. Recovery is possible and the journey is so beautiful ❤
@@luvfoto98 I agree with you. I am just saying it's a much harder process if we can't see normal. Abnormal affects us in so many ways, ways we are not even aware of.
❤Wow this sums up everything beautifully 👏
Don't take the bait. If possible, walk away every time they treat you like the bad guy.
I agree, I am learning to do this too. It’s just not worth it and doesn’t change. Have to prioritize our health. ❤
What did the Queen say in response to all Harry and Meghan's victim/martyr nonsense? She said, "Recollections may vary". 😂😂😂 She was a smart woman and couldn't be fooled by those two. Hurt by them, yes, but not fooled.
I think we all play the victim or martyr, but it's when it becomes chronic complaints.
@@jenniferfraser1854
I believe what they told.Basically
they broke the family cycle.If they weren't move away,Meghan would have died just like Harry's mother.
I think it's not healthy that the mother died because of paparazzis accidentally and the father has a new wife who was already before the first wife and inbetween as well,plus Andrew is pedo or at least maybe pedo.
Basically if they weren't rich and royal we were telling what a dysfunctional family.
William and Kate don't break the cycle and they are accepted.Just my opinion.But of course if H&M wanted to having a private life they should have not given so many interview and showing themselves that much in front of the public cause they are clown because of it.
I tried that ,I got grabbed and told to stay ..like a dog.
Dont let any parent pull this 'martyr' trick on you: THEY chose to make you and therefore take responsibility to raise you , you didn't make them!!
I wasn't that aware when I was 14 yrs od. I just felt guilty because my parents had to go to work. I thought it was my fault.
It's like expecting applause for having a headache.
Dr Ramani! You clearly know my mother! I have been listening to her “sacrifices” for 50 years. Actual statements made by her when I was a child, “I gave up my life to have children” “don’t ever have kids, they will ruin your life” “you shouldn’t have kids, you are too selfish” “being a mother is a thankless job so I’ve had to learn to live without the thank you’s” I remember constantly feeling guilty for being alive and knowing that I could never ever pay her back for “all the things she has done for me”.
My mother is exactly the same...my "favourite" is: "When your father died (I was 6 when that happened) I took care of you and I sacrificied so much for you!!
My dad tells me to this day “never have kids, they’ll ruin your life.”
Your mother was too selfish to realise that you her child was the Gift.❤
Dear God this is my mother ! I just got off of an hour phone call with her before happening across this video. It was the usual solid hour of whining, complaining, envy/ jealousy and extra martyrdom because mothers day is coming up and im not going to be able to visit her. She even sent me a text photo of a bouquet of flowers sitting on her neighbor’s doorstep that her son sent his mother for Mother’s Day. Saying “Wasnt that nice of her son?” My mother has the subtlety of a sledgehammer!
I think I like your mother lol
My mother to a tee!
Can always put the phone down and get something done 🤣
@@lorettanericcio-bohlman567 In a way I do. I put the phone on speaker and put it in my front shirt pocket and go about my business doing whatever household chores that need to be done. All I really have to do is mutter Uh huh.Really? Wow! Unbelievable! And a lot of “Yups” every now and then and for all intents and purposes I don’t even have to be there. She doesn’t even realize ive offered nothing to the conversation. Just agree with everything she says and be her emotional tampon till she runs out of steam and has gotten her belly full of validation and unbridled cynicism out and then its all over. Its such fun. 🤦♂️
@@baronhelius4596ha! I do the same with my mother! 😂😂
This totally explains how I was guilted, shamed and controlled.
Yes! I got very sick at age 22 and needed brain surgery. I am now in my 40s. My nmom plans out every holiday and demands I clear out the entire weekend. She starts the invite with "Remember all we did for you when you were sick?" My father even sent me a long email once about how they took care of me after brain surgery and I am forever in debt to them. As if I had a choice.
Run
Sheesh. Crap parents. Guess what? You can stop talking to them. Or say no. No explanation. Just no.
Yikes! That's gotta be stressful!
One act of kindness doesn't deserve a lifetime of servitude
Last time I checked that the role of a parent?! These ppl are really the worst 🙄
This is my mother completely! The “woe is me” got so tiresome. She was always even jealous of myself and my siblings. Oh and she always said we owed her!
Guess we could be siblings!🙄
" Hhh.... [long drawn out sigh]
if ever a woman suffered ! "
was the often heard one
in the household of my
childhood.
Ha my mom does this too, if I express hurt by something she did, she plays the ‘I’m a terrible mother card’, rarely taking responsibility, It’s maddening.
@@costelloandlizzievolk2233 You could always agree with her one day and smile at her reaction. 😂
Covert narc mom wants to know everybody's financial information and tries to guilt trip and think of schemes to get other people's money. Tried to dictate all of he kids careers. I had to pretend like I was interested in the career she tried to pick for me, then just said I didn't get in to avoid her toxic, invalidating reactions. I was quietly pursuing my own goals. She then went off and lied to everyone who would listen I must've done poorly in the interviews because of poor social skills. LOL!
I am sitting in an empty house with 2 suitcases of my belongs in a foreign country after dumped by a narcissist. Thank you Dr. Ramani for your expertise, free help resources and everything you have done for me in this darkest time of my life. The world needs more heroes like you.
Good riddance dear you will find your way even if it does take time, find your self worth narcissists sneak into your life when your vulnerability is greater than your self worth , never give up
@@pnaratik9383 thank you.
Oh honey, that must be completely terrifying!! It's usually done. They usually discard at the most horrific opportune times. Times you would never think anyone would do anything like this to another person.
@@pnaratik9383 thank you.
@@debrarogerssilvey3909 I’m still stuck in confusion and denial. Thank you for the kind words
That’s a gorgeous blouse! Colour, style, cut. Everything. 😊
Edit: Oh! it’s a dress! Gorgeous X10!
@jadegreen1554, I think so, too. I thought, It looks like whipped butter. It's a good color for Dr. Ramani.
was thinking the same thing throughout this vid! Dr R looking gorgeous in a colour that’s not easy to pull off!
I was going to comment on the dress, too! Looking lovely, Dr. Ramani!
After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??
Thanks to my co-worker (Alex) who suggested Ms Claudia Vecchi Nese .
She's a licensed broker in the states 🇺🇸
After I raised up to 325k trading with her I bought a new House and a car here in the states 🇺🇸🇺🇸 also paid for my son's surgery (Oscar). Glory to God.shalom.
God is more than enough for us, and his mercy is new every morning. Hallelujah🎉🎉🎉♥️
Whenever I was going through something, my mother would always give me a reason that her problems were worse and I had to see her as the one going through worse than what I was going through at that moment. It's terrible to realize this once you know what narcissism is. You feel that it is not okay but you don't understand it.
My hubby does this….I will say (not every time because it gets monotonous) “Oh, for goodness sake, it’s not a competition.” “Huh? What? I was just sharing….” And then continue his one upping me.
They have very little ability to emphasize. They also weaponize personal information and struggles (including gossiping and embellishing to others). I just avoid them when it comes to almost everything.
I've made the mistake of sharing with narcissists in the past and just getting burned by their personalities. Even sharing with otherwise normal people but that information getting into the hands of narcs. Always spun into some nonsense that it's not; always something "wrong" with everyone else. They have lots of internal shame, insecurities, and anger. Instead of dealing with it internally they turn around and put it back on you.
The constant one-upsmanship (or put- downsmanship); is very telling, isn't it?
Cut bait and run. Live your own dreams and get away from these awful, draining people. You deserve the best!
Sadly those who have been scapegoated and actually have lived thru immense trauma and injustices are often lumped into this with them and that's not true,, we are not entitled or perpetual victims but when the bare minimums have been denied and your trauma changed the trajectory of your life well the reality is it does leave you with natural envy of the things that others have normally (healthy parents, family, a stable foundation, healthy development, capacity in your nervous system to function, support, understanding) differences are we don't exploit and use others to acquire those things, we also don't hate others even though we feel envy, I think that distinction should be made because so many survivors are being labelled as vulnerable narcs. Thanks as always for the insight and content.
Thanks for bringing this up.. sometimes, I do wonder if I'm a vulnerable narc! And then go on a trip of self blame!
Well said 🎯🎯🎯💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥 SOOO True! We CAN'T Betray ourselves. "We are NOT responsible for our OWN Betrayals". (~Dr. Ramani).
I struggle to find the words and my voice after being in these situations and you've explained it quite well.
Especially when we try sharing those things for release and support in our process of healing.
Was just thinking this! Had to find yet another therapist because they apparently see me this way and think I should just get over it and be with the betrayers anyway! Ugh so frustrating. You'd think therapists could at least relate to betrayal and empathize instead of blaming us for setting boundaries. I will never understand why so many don't.
I don't know how to explain this, it's like they choose the victims who are closest to who they wish they were like and they accuse you of doing things that they are themselves doing, almost like they are talking into a mirror. It is bizarre.
That's called projection.
Definitely one of the strong strategies of a narcissist, especially in guilt-tripping kids as a parent. It’s mind boggling how resourceful and crafty narcissists are to achieve their wants at the cost of sanity of those around them. Not even their own children are spared!
It is SO exhausting having a “martyr” parent.
Today I finally said “that’s it. I’m done”
Listening to this gave me strength!!!!!!!!!!!
🙏🫡Me too!!!!! lace up your boots 👢 and strut!
Congratulations!🥂
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!!!!!!!!!!
The Triad of Dysfunctional Relationship Roles: Victim, Villain, and Hero (Rescuer). I was told early on in my Healing Journey, "If you play ANY ONE of these roles - you'll eventually play ALL of them, before the relationship ends." Great video, Ramani !
My family are masters at guilt and martyrdom. It’s caused me a lot of pain and stress. So tired of it. Not engaging in it and focusing on myself. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
This is highly relevant to geopolitics.
Werd!!
💯
I avoid people whom in one breath disrespect and mistreat people but shortly play victim after they get caught. These are usually the biggest narcs on the planet.
I recently was smeared by a male of this nature. He couldn't stand how I was naturally liked by people and smeared my name to anyone who would listen. He accused me of manipulating people into liking me with lies. Wherein it was him who was doing this EXACT thing. When I found out it was him all along, I stopped hanging out with everyone. Not only him but the people who trailed behind him and listened to his advice to mistreat me. Once that happened other mutual friends who were trying to speak on his behalf gave me this sob story about his mother, his life blah blah.
To that I said, not my problem. He's not the only one who has gone through hardships and that is not an excuse to bully another person who did nothing to you ,but exist and not give you preferential treatment(we're both from the same culture and I guess he thought I should worship him? LOL). I too have lived my life in misery once upon a time. I was raised by two narcissist and was cared for by a borderline when they lost custody of me at some point. And not once did I triangulated people, manipulated people and went on a smear campaign against someone I don't even know because I'm insecure.
I find it funny that these people can try so hard to ruin a person's life and when they are caught red handed will play victim... And believe it!
Be careful out there. These Narcs are losing their minds that their methods are being exposed. Keep your discernment up. The shift is gonna wild.
It is important to remember that it is like a sliding scale, not 1 or 0 (all or nothing), like some will have us believe; that it is only one in a hundred or some such. From there it is about "flavours".
Well said 👏🏽 I agree with you! Tired of enablers and flying monkeys sticking up for them, like they are the only ones who had it hard!
@@Jae-by3hf is beyond frustrating and it's insulting. It's like screw what they did to you, you should just excuse it because they got it hard. Like you, the target, don't have your own pay struggles. I swear enablers are the worst
I can really relate to this; I'm experiencing something similar. As I got older, my father's behaviour worsened. Following my parents' separation, he became more unpredictable, making unsolicited late-night calls to my mother and even stalking her, which led to his arrest. His manipulative behaviour intensified when my mother started a new relationship.
This pattern continued across his relationships, all failing due to his controlling and manipulative nature. Even now, he questions my decisions and achievements, though fortunately, my daughter has strong boundaries and remains independent.
Recently, during a family meeting, he revealed a potential prostate cancer diagnosis (not confirmed yet) but mixed this with manipulative requests for help with his house. Despite the seriousness of his health, his approach was self-serving, demanding immediate help without considering our schedules.
When I attempted to get more involved in his healthcare, he dismissed me, later pressing for urgent help on personal tasks. This cycle of manipulation and guilt-tripping highlights the deep impact of his narcissism, presenting ongoing challenges in establishing and maintaining necessary boundaries.
There's this strange thing I've come across which is folks who appear to be on some kind of competition every time you are under the weather or needing care time. It's as though they are competing to be needing more care time than you and feeling worse than you. It's literally some sort of competition. Very weird.
@Webnut
Yes, exactly, -
competitive victimhood.
Reference the behaviour of a certain former President right now if anyone wants to observe and witness a real-life portrayal of how it looks and is played out !!
I thought most of my boyfriends and friends were better than me. I put them on a pedestal, and thought I was messed up/less than, so thought I was so lucky they wanted to be my friend/boyfriend. It got me sucked into and stuck in bad relationships. Now I know they are lucky to have me in their life. I have value too. Looking for mutuality where we both see each other and there’s more equality balance and symmetrical relationships where it is a two way street. . Not letting anyone have that ‘power’ over me ever again. I matter too. Thank you Dr Ramani. ❤
My jaw actually dropped reading the title because after processing and accepting that I had gone through abuse with my sister, I began describing so many of the things that she did as “self-inflicted martyrdom.” She has had everything handed to her & refuses to give anything back without guilting or shaming you first, does the less than the bare minimum & believes she is a hero
Being with my ex narc for the past 8 yrs. made me observe this very pattern. I think they wanted to feel very important in a way that is disturbing. Instead of building trust with their intimate partners, they destroy the trust that they built with you (in that case lying when they tried to put you in their pedestal). Once they have a committed partner, they can’t stand being loved authentically by one person. Instead they go on and prey on other women that is susceptible to their love bombing. My ex narc was a compulsive pursuer in a relationship. He would go back and forth to the women he were involved before or try to meet women in complicated situation so that going public isn’t an option while having you as their main supply. In the end they destroy the very person that loved them. They are like toddlers testing your love for them. Showing and telling them you love them isn’t enough, they will cheat on your face to make you feel inadequate even if you are more than they deserve. They want to test your love for them so they keep hurting you and when you have enough of their abuse, you leave. Then they tell you, ‘you never loved me because you abandon me’. Well in fact it’s their actions and narcissistic behavior that made you leave or in other cases they discard you and will give silly reasons of the discard. Mine would use, ‘she’s crazy’, ‘she’s a nega-star’, ‘she insults me’, ‘she cheated on me’ et al. So with this pattern of infidelities and emotional abuse (who knows what else) it’s better to walk away. I did walk away and is now rebuilding my life with our daughter. We are struggling financially because I’m not earning enough to provide for my daughter but now we get to laugh and bring with us sunshine every day. No lies, no abuse and no fake love. We only live once, forgive yourself and move forward but never forget the lesson that narc abuse taught you. That is to respect yourself to walk away from what’s hurting and destroying you. That you deserve a life of solitude, happiness and love. Hugs*** :) Additionally I got to know about my narc husband bad ways when I reach out to a private detective digitalinvestigate@gmail.com for help he did a perfect work for me I can see everything he’s doing on his device.
Thank you 🙏 dr Ramani. Living your life like you constantly owe to your parents for all the sacrifices they made for you is more than a child should bear.
Very well put...I can really relate to this
Yes so true and so very sad! Recognizing this mad mega lifelong ultimate victim narration was one of the things that helped me understand and identify what I might be dealing with. I knew something was off as a young young child before I even had a vocabulary for it. Specifically in certain family members! The endless wallowing, validation seeking and shadow blaming makes me cringe as well! When I am talking on the phone to one of these terminal victim family members, my partner knows it right away. No bueno! This scheme has outlived its usefulness! What a way to exist in life!
My Narc Ex would generously let me watch a film on his TV, thus sacrificing his ritualistic viewing of Sports. Then later on in the day he'd be very quiet and sullen, then suddenly rage at me saying how he can never do anything in his own place demanding I give him space. 🍒
I call it a victim-bully complex. Victim one moment and bullying others the next.
I am currently dealing with this very thing with one of the narcissists in my orbit. This is super timely and super helpful.
I am not crazy - what is going on (and has been for a long time) is EXACTLY what I suspected it was!
Oh yes! Thank-you for this validating video❤
My Ex tried many times to be the victim when I called him out for his unfaithful behavior. He reacted with Martyr-Vibes like a fake heart-attack, painful kidney stones, or he would cry like a helpless little boy whose mother abandonned him. These reactions kept me stuck, but the other times that he reacted raging loud at me, made it it so scary and unsettling that I could finally leave him for ever.
Yep - the narc that switches between these modes is exhausting. It’s literally all about them & whether the outside world is treating them unfairly or whether you’re not behaving & doing things their way (the “right” and only way)… it’s an unbelievable way to exist & such an unaccountable self-centred take on the world when you actually break it down.
@@han1nja Right! I forget to mention that aspect too. He switched not only to victimize himself but he claimed "not to be treated fairly". We can be glad to keep away from such manipulation. Keep safe🙏🏻🪷
When my mother says she "sacrificed her life for me", I now tell her, that was her choice that she made and she is responsible for her choices. For years, it did make me feel guilty, but now I tell her, who asked you to sacrifice your life? That was your choice.
I think noticing and avoiding the sense of guilt in all of my relationships is paramount for me, otherwise I literally start to feel unwell, tired, deflated, listless… and it happens so subtly… well … no more! Thank you Dr Ramani, you truly are a gem 💎
I think this is why I isolate myself and keep my guard up around good people. Everything good that was done for me was used as leverage against me. A total mindf#%k for a child to endure!
I’m so glad for the deeper diver videos on narcissism, it may get (some) people to understand how prevalent narcissism really is!
Yep. My mum down to a 't'. Also an ex-friend. Bailed on that one when the reciprocity wasn't there when I needed it, and I got the martyr treatment instead.
My sister who I have gone no contact will always say look at everything I have done for you. You are so thankless. There are always strings attached, just like how my father was.
They claim to have bad memories. Yer at the end they remember everything they've done for you. Not fooling anyone
Ugh! That's the worst trait. It's horrible when you grow up with a narcissistic sibling. To hear their version of our childhood they were a true Cinderella. Meanwhile the rest of us remember them as the evil step sister, always taking and always bullying.
I relate to this 💯
Every dinnertime at home. Dad complained about the food and we listened to all the "bastards" that were screwing him over at work. It was the same every night for years. The irony is that he was a very good scientist--47 patents--and it was his miserable personality that held his career in check. No one could stand him.
My sibling informed me, my nieces and nephew suffered because I wasnt unable to have children..apparently they were entitled to cousins their own age…the lack of empathy floored me
Wow. Just wow. That is incredibly evil.
Dr. Ramani your incredible. You say it as it is.
"Strings Attached! Beware!!" is the nature of the warning thoughts my head would give me, when narcs came proffering. Today i am grateful for that, as well as improved discernment you & other YT therapists have provided. TY!!! ❤❤
In my family of origin, those strings were more like heavy chains.
My mom jumped from cross to pedestal right to the end. I just wanted her to come down to earth, tale some accountability and apologize. Gave up on that eventually but had to grieve o er time.
My mom and dad did the darvo thing to me yesterday. I rescued and tried to take care of an abandoned baby squirrel, only to have him sadly pass way. He was very sweet and followed me around like I was his mom. When I expressed sadness about him passing, my dad recoiled in disgust and criticized me for being sad! He always does this to me and I’ve had enough. I stood up to him and said I am human and allowed to have emotions. He then twisted it and told my mom I said he didn’t care about animals!A total lie! So then my mom came at me criticizing me for it! I told her that’s not true and not what happened, and that I am allowed to feel sad for the squirrel baby passing. Ridiculous I even have to defend that. So messed up. Fully aware of what it is. Keeping my distance. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Sorry you have such a-hole parents… but at least you’re aware of it & protecting your sanity & right to express yourself & your emotions regardless. My kids have to do this a lot with their dad & I’ve taught them to just let it wash over them & not buy into the drama & emotional manipulation he constantly throws at them.
Yes my “mother” would frequently show me pictures and verbally remind me of how she used to look before she had me and gained weight, always showing me how nicely her clothes used to fit her, and how everyone thought she was a model. This was the so called “life and happiness” she gave up just so I can have life.
Wow, Dr. Ramani! It’s like you knew my mother. While I didn’t have the vocabulary for it yet, by the time I was in my 20s I understood that something was deeply wrong with her that apparently most people couldn’t see. She was a communal narcissist, and martyrdom was one of her favorite tools of control. We owed her eternally for the sacrifices that nobody asked her to make. Thank you for putting it into words and for validating my experience as the never-good-enough daughter of the public do-gooder.
Yes! My mother too! To the outside world she is an angel.
As a child and adolescent, of course I had no conceptualization of narcissistic personality styles. I knew a few things about my mother though. She was highly manipulative (through instilling guilt), controlling, dominant. An alcoholic, she would often go off with her rants and raves with both my sister and me. I was on my hands and knees cleaning people's homes so that both of you could have better lives. You had a roof over your head, food to eat, lots of treats and were the best dressed. She would also play my sister and me off against each other. It was horrific. Towards the end of her life she had completely rewritten our history. The extreme domestic violence, my never being good enough, a failure was never acknowledged. This went on well into my adulthood until I realized what was really going on. At age 16 I was seeing a psychologist four times a week before high school classes started. My therapist told me that I wasn't thinking my own thoughts but that I was thinking my mother's thoughts. Manipulation through guilt and all pervasive. Yes, she was the victim martyr. Because I didn't meet her expectations of becoming an M.D., I had failed her. I started to take my life back and of course, she resisted my attempts. Nonetheless, I did what I believed I needed to do with my life. I completed my studies in clinical and trauma psych. Of course, this still wasn't good enough to satisfy her unending demands. Shortly before her death I finally confronted her about everything, our history. Her denial was strong. At this point I simply told her that I would never see her again. And I didn't. She was predeceased by my sister three three days before she passed. She died alone. Do I have any guilt or remorse? Absolutely not. I had tried everything I could to appease her. As my therapist had said to me during adolescence, it's either her or you. This is a difficult decision that you have to make. But for your own mental health and wellness I would urge you to have no further contact with her. That's exactly what Dr.B had told me. But I didn't act on his advice until much later in adulthood. As a result, I paid the price. A complex trauma bond, anxiety, depression and c-ptsd.
I paid the ultimate price as the child and adult child of a victim martyr narcissist.
Finally, to anyone reading this, I will say save yourself because you can never save them. Disengage. Walk away. Choose your own path in life.
As soon as I saw martyr in the thumbnail I got so scared this one is gonna be interesting
My ex is so this…he’s a doctor and is angry, n bitter, petty and thinks he deserves more than he has and doctors before him were in a better environment to make money and nothing was ever caused by him…
Replace doctor with musician...
The ex narc ALWAYS thought he deserves more than his peers.
Why does the medical profession seem like it has such high levels of narcissism? So many claiming they want to "help people" (as if other professions don't do that) but are just status-driven people. Then they get stuck with extreme levels of debt and interest payments and pay very high taxes that limits their disposable income, yet try to live the lifestyle.
My covert narc mom was adamant I be a doctor for a living (her unlived career goal). She's toxic and invalidating so to avoid her nasty reactions I had to pretend to be interested and just said I didn't get. I quietly pursued my own dreams. The whole narrative since then is I didn't pass the interviews because I must have poor social skills and I'm not cut out for an elite career. Lol, okay, Narcissa.
Well it is harder now for doctors in the u.s. the medical education costs are $250k or more. Unless you have family wealth, youre in a huge debt and with inflation, the earnings aren't as high as decades ago. Plus they can't easily be independent anymore, most have to work for a hospital network b/c of medical malpractice insurance cost
Being told from six years old that my very existence was going to make my mother die/collapse/get cancer from the sacrifice she made simply for making THE CHOICE to have a child.
That's quite simply cruel.😢
@@simonecrevecoeur thank you @simonecrevecoeur really, and you’re right it was but that’s one of the more “sedate” cruelties she exacted, worse still, she stopped or never did love me but I can’t for all the life of me leave and stop 🛑 loving her. Crazy making. Thank you again for showing your support ♥️
That's sadly common with narc parents. Happened with me too. They spew the most ridiculous nonsense when they're angry.
Yay! The entirety of my life is listening to the cabal of people who are out to get my wife (of course I’m on the list).
Last night, I got to listen to a 20 minute lecture about narcissism, and how literally everybody else in her life is a narcissist who is persecuting her and ruining her life.
This is spot on, Dr.Ramani! My ex said that «I left my job because of you» (not true, he lost it!), «I left the restaurant and my friend 30 minutes earlier to talk with you»(when I had already told him that I would call him later because my kids were not sleeping yet. ) «I chose YOU over many other women»🤭 count yourself lucky…😏
This is the main reason I stopped accepting gifts and money from my mother. She has 2 moods: Trauma dumper or humble bragger. She's allergic to emotional connection with me but feels her gift giving makes up for it. I politely decline or donated her gifts throughout years. Not in the mood for her shenanigans.
My parents refuse to visit my family (me, wife, kids) -- going on for 12 years. My dad would guilt tripping me that he is growing old (for the past 20 years) or make excuses about their health. Then next thing I hear is he went on international trip for several weeks.
The last call my dad asked if I come back to visit them (like i did every year). I said no, I have a lot of things going on, and he starts guilt tripping me about how won't live to the end of the year. Then literally few minutes later, he asked me to invest in commercial building with him to do charity work. Unbelievable!
And if we 'just don't fall for it', they will ramp up level by level to get something that will work and they will go from vulnerable needy narcissism to malignant narcissism and then into secondary sociopath behavior!! Am dealing with it now 😢
Totally my mother. "After everything I've done for you..." I'm 61 yrs. old and finally went No Contact.
My mother and mother in law to a tee! Some of the phrases they’d use are laughable. My mother told me that “I owe her and she owns me.” I have distanced myself from both of them for my own sanity and the reality is, we don’t have much to talk about because I don’t want to listen to their crap. Listening to that selfish drivel is time I will never get back.
My EX wife use to say I was her property and she owned me because I was her husband. Hahaha ( something is wrong with this picture )
@@clintonnagy1662most definitely!!!
Sounds like when mine told me she can shit all over me if she wanted to and I’d have to eat it
…this is prove that you know my sister!
It describes her 100%!
(*proof)
Same my sister is so like this
Daddy used to say "everyone is against me" with zero self awareness.
lol sounds exactly like my ex husband who spends all his time emotionally manipulating our almost adult kids now… it’s very sad & I constantly have to educate them about how the things he says to them are emotionally manipulative 🤦🏻♀️
They literally play with one's sanity. This abuse should be illegal. The psychological damage they cause.
They don't even have to say, they act like it with every look and huff. They think they can do something small for you, whilst they're living it up and you should be grateful!
9:26 this was literally my ex-wife to a T! I fell for it too for the longest time. Spent almost 8 years believing her BS. Took almost 8 years to see & recognize the martyr vibe & tactics. I’m so thankful someone is actually talking about it. I don’t feel so crazy now knowing that it’s an actual thing narcissists do.
I’m a practicing clinician with 10 years of experience and I learn an incredible amount of information from your channel, I’m actively applying this to my own relationship and it’s extremely validating to consider ending this relationship with a partner who falls high on the vulnerable narcissism scale, likely moderate on the autism spectrum and a childhood marked with physical and emotional abuse
Better part of my life with someone like this.
My step mother (who I believe is a combo of histrionic & narcissistic) likes to tell me (usually after she’s done or said something AWFUL) that she loves & cares for me soooooo much, that she & my dad gave up the idea of having their own children on my behalf… because “I was such a sensitive child” (I’m 40 now mind you, not a child or a moron) … funny thing is, I know full well that she had a full hysterectomy at 28 because of a medical condition 😑 I sometimes remind her of this fact, but it doesn’t really deter her from bringing her version up time & time again… it’s truly pathological
This is exactly what my mom is
Growing up in a cluster b family temptations to conform to a descriptive of who you are suppose to be to everyone else was everywhere. Yet there were lessons I found from unexpected messengers to help move through those obstacles. Lessons were learned through watching others as a child who chose a different way of seeing the world. I remember a gentle man who told me he didn’t have to envy because his mind could imagine and his hands could work. As a child it was like a door opening up to a room filled with possibilities. I remember a gentle woman who told me she buffers hurt intended by others through wearing the world like a loose coat. If she gave a gift it was given freely. If she did a kindness for another the joy was in the work not needing a specific response in return. The work of our hands and the freedom of our hearts was their lived message to me. They will never know how much they helped me cope with family dynamics. Dr Ramani thank you for being another voice to guide others through obstacles.
My covert narcissistic mother called me a martyr once.
It’s hard to forget but now I fully see her, I know the fault is hers and not mine.
OMG you’re talking about my other brother- one brother is a grandiose narc- the other is a victim like no other-
The last words mother said (screamed
At) to me "we help your sister and not you because she pays us $100 and lunch every time!! You can't can you!?!?" Fathers was "when are you leaving? sorry you're sick, good luck with that" as he turned, walking away chucking at me. I've been terminally ill 2 yrs but can't pay so they evicted me and stole my little 5th wheel home I purchased in '17 as well as paid rent since my purchase. Now homeless w/16+y/o service dog Bandit also disabled (in a wheelchair).
my mom is the exactly what you are describing. how do i set boundaries in a productive way, without her making this all about herself and about how ungrateful i am?
My mother = narcissist + munchausen by proxy (for sure!!!) When I was in my thirties forties (?), someone spoke to me about their childhood and then I chimed in about mine. We learned that our mothers played the martyr. Yet people in our circle never came forward to (at least) offer us (the child) some support or words of comfort. But, instead...they wanted to see what the mother "cooked up" today! And, then...more nightmares for me.
So I add another narcissist style that my mother has. The grandiouse, malignat and the martyr. Today is the mother’s days in my Country, I felt the need to contact her just to not feel guilty, and my brother contacted me trying to convince me to contact my mom believing that I upset and that I need to have her another chance . I’m not upset I’m exhausted and it has been for years. My whole life . I grew up hearing how much she sacrificed for me when I was a baby and a child. So understanding that need was coming from guilt and not genuinely desire. The last 5 months with no contact has been peaceful and in harmony with my life. I have been more and more in contact with myself.
I can relate! I have always contacted my mother on Mother’s Day out of guilt and obligation. This is the first year I will not be contacting her. It’s time to let that go.
@@heyitsme5469 I wish you all the strength you already have in your interior. It has been challenging for me. Almost everyone in my family see me as the villain in the story. Mother's day is a challenge for us: is the door to welcome more of our self love, self worth and reminder that our reason to let that go is enough and worth it.
My mother has told me numerous times since I started being brutally honest with her "I bent over backwards for you!"
When I responded, "Really? What have you done?" she got angrier and stormed off, not giving me an answer. Lol.
No. We don't play these guilt games anymore. I call her "my martyr" rather than my mother.
Thanks, Dr. Ramani.
My mother and grand mother 100%. And yet, as a parent of two, it is my experience that parenting is the ultimate ego transforming exercise and Yes,, it does include some secrafices that are part of the job description. I grew up reminded every day how much i owe them
Genuinely giving people don’t care about getting credit. They just do goods because they want to see good things happen for people. If someone does something and holds it against you, they’re not giving to be caring, there is some type of unspoken transaction that they expect.
TennesseeWilliams penned the phrase “the power of fragility”. I think that fits in here as the martyr can seem so fragile and easily broken. Hogwash!
YES so very excellently described and so helpful to hear it described in this way!! I'm dealing with it now and it's extremely stressful, will appreciate any prayers anyone wants to lift for me to get out of this logistical situation and away from all of it without having to get help from any of the narcissists
Dr. RAMNI you nailed it. "She held back her wants, to give to others " mentality. Yep, thats my Ex girlfriend. She says she gave so many sacrifices to be in a relationship with me. "Woe is me"
Sexlessness. Sharing a bed with someone who doesn’t acknowledge you are a sexual being hurts so much. I was in a sexless marriage for years. Being a woman with a high libido, I felt inadequate. Worst I feel invisible. The man who was “supposed” to want me, just didn’t. We talked about it many times, more than I can recall now. It was always me. I wanted too much - once a week was too much for him. I didn’t initiate - he was always complaining of headaches, stomaches, always stressed, always tired. I was too sexual - when being subtle doesn’t work, what is next? Explicitly saying I wanted sex. Oh but then it was not appropriate. Conversations would end up with him saying he didn’t feel desired or I made him feel emasculated because he didn’t want sex as much as I did. Yeah, it was always me. I could never win. While we were dating we would have a decent amount of sex, it was good. The first huge red flag was not having sex in our honeymoon - which I ignored. It rapidly decrease to once a week, then every other week. Years gone by it was months in between, by the time we divorced it was over a year with no sex. I cried myself to sleep more times that I can count. I didn’t understand what was wrong with me. Was I that undesirable? Was I repulsive? After those conversations, I just stopped trying, initiating, mentioning sex. We were still loving - holding hands, hugging, kissing - but sex was off the table. He then cheated on me. Swore he had sex only 4 times in a year (or more) long affair. It didn’t matter. For years my self worth was damaged by him, years of low self esteem, years of feeling less of a woman, the marriage that was more than over, waiting in hospice, really ended. Funny how things are, I asked him for a divorce, he manipulated me into staying, next day his infidelity came to light. I was out as soon as I could. Best thing of my life. Additionally, That feeling when your partner cheated and you don't have the courage to leave him / her so you just death with the pain and live everyday asking questions about your worth. This pain is different from the cheating one_living and seeing him everywhere anticipating when he or she do it again. The best thing is to hire a private investigator digitalinvestigate@gmail.com to help you spy on their cellphone remotely just like he did for me...
@@BuckleyThompson hahaha you wrote that book to advertise some fool? 😆
@@jenster29 that fool probably wrote it and hired a bunch of chinese bots to give it a thumbs up
Iv
I've been married 38 years. I haven't had sex in 35 years!! I
An ex boyfriend always played the victim and thought everyone was out to get him, including me. He would smoke too much pot, so pass out, then accuse me of drugging him! We had an old van that always broke down, and he thought my family was sabotaging the motor! I couldn’t reassure him no matter what I said or did. He couldn’t keep a normal job because there was always something wrong with the boss. Looking back, I can see how unhealthy it was for me and it sucked me in by me feeling bad for him and wanting to help. My therapist thinks he was actually paranoid schizophrenic sociopathic and narcissistic! So grateful I got away from him eventually. Super aware of these toxic things now. Prioritizing my safety and well being. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
There’s some real bell ends out there.
This helped me, that is my mother. I was feeling bad for her a few days ago thinking about some of the things she has told me that happened to her, it's very hard.
Omg! I never thought in terms of my dad being a 'martyr.' But yes, he was a classic vulnerable narcissist who said countless times in our lives that it wasn't his choice to have children. So I'd asked whose choice was it? The churche's! My brother and I were on to this nonsense from a very early age and asked him for nothing. My two sisters got sucked in by this damaging messaging. This video hit home every second from beginning to end. And the good news is I basically laughed throughout. I've had enough therapy that I could laugh!
I know a mother like this. Every situation is about her. She's been financially supported, and cared for by her children for years, but when things don't go her way, it's, "I gave up everything to be a mother. But now look at me, I have nothing." But she does. Just not as much as she deserves? At times, I've heard her say, "look at what so-and-so did for me. Isn't that nice?" Seems like she's trying to hint that others should do the same. I don't know if she appreciates the unconditional love and compassion she has too.
I think it's cool that people give their all to their charity causes. Keep encouraging people to do good for others and the environment, but don't lose yourself in the process.
I was just going to say that Self righteous narcissists always act like martyrs, Dr. Ramani said that. Proud that I am able to see things like Dr. Ramani😃
“Martyrs make bad dinner guests”…..100%!
What I heard from my mother my whole life, was I gave my life for you. That was her rendition of I gave birth to you. To her it was her giving her life for us.
My ex is this but also covert so he isn’t this blatant… outsiders wouldn’t even see this… you have to be married to him and see it play out subtly
They are careful until they aren't then all is falling apart.then they blame you for wrecking their life
It can also look like- I do everything for everyone, I give and give and I get nothing back. Everyone treats me like a second class citizen I need people to feel bad for me. One you notice this, it’s so disgusting, that a human would stoop low to tug on heart strings. Even if you offer assistance, they may dislike you for trying to help because they aren’t interested in helping. The currency is in feeling bad for them.
That's so true. My mom is entitled and envious. Superficial and focuses on materialism. She would blame everyone and every entity but herself. Somebody must hate me. Or if she breaks something because she is clumsy and impatient and goes too fast she will say, "it was a freaky thing, it just fell." Or "it just broke." My mom always did guilt trips to manipulate me into doing something she favored.
Sometimes it's just little things, like always denying themself anything I offer (and thereby denying me the "opportunity" to give or do anything for them)(and then conversely complaining at a later date that I never do this or that). They get the dual benefit of not allowing me to have any type of perceived upper hand because I did something nice, and being the constant martyr in that he/she "doesn't need anything." EVERY SINGLE INTERACTION IN THESE RELATIONSHIPS IS FRAUGHT WITH WEIRD UNDERCURRENTS, MOTIVATIONS, MANIPULATIONS. IT'S JUST WEIRD CONSTANTLY. I grew up with a mother like this and have had a partner like this for 15 years. NOTHING EVER FEELS NORMAL, not even trying to say "good morning" or "good night." They are always looking for a look or a tone or a hidden meaning in every little thing you say, or applying a meaning that they perceive, that's not what you said or intended in the slightest. There is no subject you can have a normal conversation about, so forget about anything difficult. They hear things that you didn't even say because they apply their insecurities to everything. It's a maddening and exhausting way to live. I just want to live with somebody who lets me be grumpy when I feel grumpy (doesn't criticize or make it about them), who lets me be silly when I feel silly (again doesn't make it about them and think that I'm criticizing them, or doesn't belittle me for acting goofy), who doesn't think that everything I do/think/feel, every look on my face, every tone in my voice, is about them. I'm sick of the little lies, the constant mental games, the one-upsmanship about EVERYTHING.
Just want to thank you for writing this because I adopted that behavior from my mother and am I finally acknowledging I've been doing that to the love of my life for most of our relationship. If there's anything else about your mom's behavior that you feel okay to write down, reply to this comment please (for the sake of having one less matyr-victim narc in this world). Thanks for your help 💛
These are quite important aspects of the relationship with my mother. And those vulnerable narcissists can become as nasty as other kinds once their anger/fury is triggered. Thank you, Dr. R. 🙏🏻
My mother is good at this. NC with her now but any time she would invite me to some family event/holiday/random get together and I hesitated at all, she would say "well I don't want you to make a command performance." Not ironically, not jokingly. It always messed with my head.
Another confusing part is that she always seems to have horrible self worth but also demands loyalty and obedience. I couldn't clock the narcissism for a long time.
My husband "apple pie, Chevrolet and screw him" his favorite saying. My view, he, generally, screws himself. Maybe karma blowing back on him, who knows. So tired of hearing how everyone is out to screw him. This way, it's someone else's fault and never his, no accountability.