E26 convertible top pump / motor repair 1968 Pontiac Firebird LeBronze
Вставка
- Опубліковано 2 лис 2021
- Repairing convertible top pump for Pontiac Firebird project LeBronze. Tear down and inspection to find the failure and repair it for less then $35. Score! This pump design is used on a wide variety of vehicles and relatively simple to repair yourself at home. even your Camaro, Chevelle, GTO, Buick, Regal, Lemans, Cutlass, Oldsmobile use this style pump.
See More videos ua-cam.com/users/VinylVillag...
1969 Trans Am video • E2 69 Trans Am convert...
Questions, comments, or want to say hi?
Contact us at Vinylvillagegarage@gmail.com
#Pontiac #Convertible #Firebird - Авто та транспорт
Thanks for the video. Have a handful on convertibles and this makes me a lot less afraid of them
No problem 👍
Broooooo you just saved me a grip of $$$$ you are the man! I know what I have to do.
That’s Awesome! More money for other goodies.
Yezzzirrr… where do you recommend buying the gasket set? I looked online and lots of options
@@horaciodurazo7297 the last one I bought I got it from Firebird central. All the seals are correct and came with replacement check balls. And it’s like $20 too
When you remove the hoses you should label the pump ports for top and bottom.also, I think that pump needs to be flat (installed) for the bleed procedure.
Not a bad idea to label the hoses. If you get them wrong it just works backwards of intended direction. As for pump it’s easier to me to keep it tipped up to fill a completely empty system. Now checking the final level horizontal pump is ideal with top down. With cylinders retracted that will be the highest the fluid will ever be.
Another great how to video!
Thanks for watching! Appreciate the feedback again as well.
Another excellent video, you the man! I had a broken hose to one of my cylinders and have ordered new hoses and a gasket kit for the pump as you suggested. I was trying to figure out how to fill the pump repeatedly since my system was empty, setting the pump up on end like you did should do the trick. Thanks again, you will definitely be a big help in getting my '69 TA the way I want it!
Awesome, nice car too! 1969 trans am is my favorite car.
Great video. I really need to see this step by step
Which part would you like more detail?
Thanks for the info, my 66 GTO had nothing, I bought everything new and in the process of installing everything. Only time the top is up is in the garage.
Right on glad to help. Having a working power top is nice. Doing it manually is not as cool. 1966 GTO is iconic, I had a 67 lemans and loved the body style wish I had room to
Keep it. Good luck on getting it working.
bad ass man...I have a chevrolet impala pump I am gonna mess with
I believe they are the same so it should work just the same
That’s actually a very simple thing to rebuild. I wonder if it would be possible to replace the system with electric linear actuators and get rid of all the fluid stuff.
I would think so. That would definitely prevent the mess from a fluid leak. Electric actuators have improved over recent years. 🤔 I will have to investigate
No. Don’t do it with electric. Look at all the problems with old fords. If one electric actuator runs slower you jam to top crooked and it’s stuck. Fluid is self leveling and rarely presents that problem.
@@smasse64
Limit switch can alleviate the 'delta" issues that can and likely will occur.
1968 GTO; Can you go manual up and down and get rid of the hydraulics all together? Too heavy/difficult?
I had a 68 bird that someone had removed one cylinder then drained the fluid from the other and I used to put the top up and down Manually, it was a little heavy but was doable. To answer the question you can and it will work but it’s a bit heavy. The factory non power top cars had helper springs in the same locations as the lift cylinders and it did make it easer to operate. If you want to ditch the power top that’s an option too.
Another excellent video. My '69 convertible top worked a few times when I bought it last year, then it didn't and I found a pool of fluid under the car where the pump was. I just removed the pump and am thinking it's probably a seal failure there? I'll use your procedure and replace the pump seals once I confirm that it still actually runs. Thanks for all your help, I'm completing a frame-off restoration and hoping to have this baby on the road soon!
1969 is me favorite year, inspect the lines to. They get brittle and leak too. Good luck on your build, glad to know another bird is on its way
Back together
Thanks for the video. How did you bleed the line/pumps on the conv top?
Welcome, to answer your question Keep the reservoir full then run the top motor up and down full cycles and it will purge the air out during cycles.
Hello, thanks for publishing your video. You don't happen to have some times on how long it takes for your pwr top to go up or down do you? The reason I ask is that I have a '68 Convertible FB which I restored a couple years ago and I keep having issues with the top; originally popping fuses and then the switch (both original and replacement from Ames) went bad. Additionally my top seems excessively slow going up and down and when I timed it, it took ~23 secs to go up or down. That seems about half the speed of what is expected. I know that time (or the speed of the motor) directly influences current flow... The faster the motor turns (true for any motor), the less time the current flow has to build and therefore the less amperage observed. That is why I am taking note about how my top up and down speed seem to be slower than expected and wondering if the motor is wrong for the given application or the motor bushings are dry and dragging.
Note that I know that if I had a bad connection (decreased voltage supply at the motor itself or ground), then current flow would be proportionately lower, but speed would still be affected.
I captured the current ramp waveform from the motor and seeing ~40+ amps when the motor just starts turning and then it tapers down to about 25-30 amps, but the top up and down speed are slower than I expect. Note that I disassembled, cleaned, and lubricated all of the convertible frame pivot points when I restored the car, including replacing the bushings. Other than moving the high amp circuit off of the switch and onto a multi-direction relay, I really want to get to the bottom of the issue. Like you, I just hate to go purchase another motor/pump without trying to determine the real cause.
You have peaked my curiosity on top up and down times. I tested the time of my convertible. Not running up or down average time 18 seconds. Car running up or down just under 14 seconds. If this is a good base line I agree yours is significantly slower.
To make a fare comparison mine is the factory 1969 motor, wiring and switch. Only repair to the electrical I had in this car was the switch it was inoperative originally. The switch i didn’t see a great way to disassemble it so I filled it full of WD40 and cycled it probably100 times or more and kept flushing more WD 40 thru it and to my surprise it worked and still works great 5 years later.
Now the top frame I did completely disassemble and removed every bolt. Had it media blasted then reassembled and painted. The proceeds to lube all the pivot points. I did test run the frame bare without the top on it. Worked great and adjusted it. Then installed a new top. Again this was 5 years ago. To get a timeline. AsFor why yours is slower i don’t know For sure. Things I don’t like is that they run full current thru the switch that just blows my mind. Crazy enough it works…..for now if I had an issue I would go the route of installing relays to handle the current demand. I am not convinced you have a faulty or worn out motor yet.
It comes down to it could be top frame binding, but that would be hard to test. You could hot wire the motor and bypass the switch to test for improvement. Or do a voltage drop test across the switch during operation. Besides testing source voltage and compare what’s going to the motor. I wish I had the answer for you and if you do figure it out please let me know.
@@VinylVillageGarage Thanks for getting back to me. My resto also included new American Autowire harnesses, switch, rams, lines, motor/pump (albeit I wish top shop wouldn't have gotten rid of my original since, IMO, it was in new condition since car had orig 50k on it), and I also disassembled, blasted, reassembled the top frame with new bushings and hardware, not too mention lubed all pivot points. I can also tell you that I did voltage drops for feed and ground at the motor. Although voltage drops would possibly cause the motor to turn slower, the amperage would actually be lower too, not higher. One avenue I am looking into is the fact that this is a new replacement motor which the top shop provided. I know for a fact that the manufacturers might have chosen a cheaper spec motor which could possibly equate to them saving money by using a motor with less windings in the armature. This equates to less electrical resistance per commutator and inversely higher amperage.
By the way, I was already thinking of moving the high amps off of the switch and using a bidirectional relay, but find it hard to believe the vehicle had this issue when originally manufactured.
Thanks, can you say where you bought the pump rebuild kit. Also do you have a video on the well liner?
The seal kit is basically just orings. I was able to match them up but you can get a kit from Firebird central
1967 - 1969 Firebird Convertible Power Top Motor, Pump, and Seal Rebuild Kit www.firebirdcentral.com/1967_1969_Firebird_Convertible_Power_Top_Seals_p/cnv-281.htm
I have not done a convertible top video yet. It is on my list to do and it will include doing the top well.
Any tips for getting the rubber plug back in the fill hole?
Find an Allen wrench that fits into the rear of the plug and push the plug in with the wrench
@@VinylVillageGarage Thanks - I'll give it a shot!
Put y rams in a milk jug of trans fluid n pull up th ram piston saves a lota time messy but works betr thn bleedin in th car
That’s actually quite clever indeed, thanks for the tip.
Love the hands on work, whats the price of the bird now ?
Thanks. I love fixing these old cars, it just seems to turn into a good story while doing it. The price is going to be up to Chris it’s his car and will be listed for sale here in the Indy area soon. Once he gives he his thoughts I will keep you posted
Why replace the cylinders? They are simpler than motor to repair. A #10 o ring that you have to dig out the cap and packing to get at around the chrome shaft. Last time I did it it was 10 cents each.
Wow. I Knew it was just an o-ring, I cut it apart to see how it worked. I wasn’t sure how to replace just the o-Ring without disassembling it. I have another convertible to do. As long as the rods are not pitted or damaged I will try that next time. Thanks!
Hey boss good video i have the same car and simlar issues my lines were busted and replaced those , it goes up but doesnt go down , no fluid at all come out the top part of the pump , no sound from switch either , , checked the switch , dont have anything to chekc voltage but it looks connect and ground and top part work so figured that was ok , so noticed its two wires from switch to pump , and a connect like yours in the vudeo but my connector piece has gunk all over it , so might have killed the connection to top down part , so was thinking cut that out and connect wires directly, but nervous dont want to mess anything up already in the red on this car , so with your proffesional opinion should i just direct connect the wires , or would be in the pump or switch from the information provided , thanks in advance
Normally the switch is the issue, I have had good luck with an electrical cleaner, spray it in the best you can and toggle the switch rapidly and sometimes it gets them to work again
@@VinylVillageGarage wd40 ?
@@Theundisputedtruth I would try that is that is all you have to use.
@VVG Firebird Restoration Station thanks for the response , tried , and no change , , I jusr want to see the top work and do it myself , driving me crazy
@VVG Firebird Restoration Station Last question , what are the wires ,? I know one is ground , so what are the other two ? Do you ?
Where did you get the rebuild kit
Firebird central sells them less then $20 check them out first
how much oil do u put in the pump
just about a Quart is what I used. Total capacity for an empty system I could not say how Much Exactly To Completely fill it. The idea is top off the pump run the system up and down and adjust the fluid with the top down to just below the fill port when the pump is mounted horizontally
Same pump and rams frm any of th sebrings n lines r th same use th rams too they r th same height iv been doing this for 20 years u cn evn use thm frm mustang's line fittings exact same as my 67 chevelle and I'm using th rams frm a 2004 mustang n lines too I'm using a motor frm a late model firebird only thing is th mountings u nd to improvise that iv used all th sebrings pumps n lines on my 66 electra but th rams weren't high enuf th late model firebird rams are not serviceable to change th o_ rings so I'm using th mustang rams in my 67 chevellefor th cylinders th boring gets stretchd over th oval head of th ram a/c orings r best
I have heard of using different cylinder/ram for these old cars that can be resealed. Just didn’t know what car they came from. That’s a better idea then buying
Ones that can’t be serviced again
Did everything on the video and now the motor is not making a noise. It was making noise previously. I need help. 😫
when you say not making a noise you are saying the motor is no longer running electrically, or the pump isn’t making pressure and the motor is running.
@VVG Firebird Restoration Station The motor is no longer running electrically.
@@ginavaldez959 from my experience with top motors the switch is the weak link. Toggle the switch up and down several times and see if it responds. If not you will need a volt meter to find the issue.
@VVG Firebird Restoration Station Toggled the switch, and there was no response. Used a multi meter on the connection that is coming from the car and got no reading. Do you know if there's a fuse for the line?
@@ginavaldez959 I don’t believe it has a fuse but it does plug into a spade terminal directly onto the center of fuse panel.
Hey man I need sum help
Yes what’s up?
Yeah...
I replaced everything in the motor...
Everything put back where it belongs...
Lines attached with plumbing tape...
Reservoir refilled... top let up and down... Reservoir refilled... top let up and down... repeat this until filled.
Lines ALL red... with NO air bubbles...!!!
Top working GREAT 2-3 TIMES... then Silicone GASKET from kit BLOWS...!!!!
Red slippery smelly shit everywhere...
2 GALLONS of ATF later...
😡🤬😡🤬😡🤬😡🤬
I hate the oily mess, when that cyl leaked on mine it filled the rocker panel with fluid it took forever for it to stop dripping on the ground. Sorry that happened.
68 GTO: Top no move, pump runs. Suppose i'm going to find red shit in the bowels of her too. Great tutorial. Thx.
Glad to help. Good luck on your adventure with M getting the top to work.
great video and very helpful. What type of fluid did you use? oil? tranny fluid? it's red so I wasn't sure. Thanks
Yes, I used ATF to fill the system. Glad it helped that is the goal with our channel, thank for the feedback