I think it depends on the kind of flying you’re doing. If you’re doing technical in cockpit then a large tv is the way to go so you can actually see the gauges. If you fly outside the plane mostly then ultrawide is for you.
I think you hit the nail on the head... I belive what we are seeing especially with MSFS. There are a alot more casual users who are doing just that, by flying from outside the plane. As unlike X-Plane or P3D, MSFS is attracting a broader group of people, both the casual and technical types... Thanks for watching 👀
I think there are a lot more variables here than one might think, in that I don't think that there's the perfect monitor size, ratio, or zoom level that will work for all aircraft and for everyone. As for ultrawide vs 16:9, that's an interesting discussion, but once again a large 21:9 ultrawide (greater than 40") is going to give you a more immersive experience than a 34" one - even at the same resolution. Also, a 21:9 ultrawide that has the same height as a 16:9 monitor will most certainly give you a more immersive experience at the same zoom level and resolution. For example, a ~40" 21:9 monitor has the same physical height in cm or inches as a 32" 16:9 monitor does, but gives you more view in your peripheral vision. I plan on getting a 21:9 4K OLED sometime in 2024, when the right monitor hits the market. For me, I'd like around a 42" ultrawide with maybe a 1200r curvature. The 1440p 45" LG Ultragear with an 800r curve is a bit too large and a bit too curved for my liking, and at 1440p it really sacrifices dpi over a smaller monitor. Don't get me wrong, it's an impressive looking monitor, but it really should have had at least a 3840x1600 resolution vs. 3440x1440. Having said all that, I REALLY wish that manufacturers would make a 2:1 ratio monitor that splits the difference between 16:9 and 21:9. I think that the 2:1 ratio more closely aligns with how the human eye works, in that we have more of a horizontal oval view of the world around us than a perfect circle. I'm not holding my breath on that one though...
Bro you've said it all, it's like you're reading our minds. You really know what you're talking about. You're the one who should be making content about monitor technology.
Appreciate your viewpoint... I do use an Ultrawide for MS2020 at 2K. I don't need higher resolution than that at the expense of frame-rate, but I do love the ultrawide. I also have two 26" or 27" ASUS 2K monitors on each side of the 34" UW and they are in Portrait orientation (just the ASUS's). So for example, when I fly the Wilga, I can adjust the 3 monitors view in MS2020 to allow me to see out the sides of the Wilga and it's just amazing. The amount of FOV is tremendous. There is not much frame-rate degradation either.... Takes a minute to get the FOV ratios good and the alignment just right, but dang.....what a view. Thanks for the TV suggestion, I'm going to try that with a spare tv.
100% agree, i got the lg ultra 45” ultrawide and returned it the same day, the fish eye effect was crazy. FO’s instrument felt much closer than the instruments in front of me
I went from a 65 inch 4K 60Hz TV to the Samsung G9 32:9 240 Hz monitor and then went back to a 16:9 55 inch LG C1 120Hz OLED two year’s later, but placed it on my desk right behind my keyboard and it’s just like having two Samsung G9’s on top of each other. As long as the 16:9 is big and close enough it looks much better than 32:9. At least to me. I have almost double the screen space and a higher resolution. It took a week or so to get used to the flat screen though.
Yesterday, after reading about folks that had done this, I hooked up a 4K 65" TV to my sim. I was skeptical but decided to try it. I'm still experimenting, trying full-screen and various different sizes in windowed mode. I'm sitting about 4 feet from the screen. I'll say this. Wow. Everything feels more solid and real. You pick up the shape of the runway at a distance like you do in the real world. Knobs in the cockpit are realistic size. In windowed mode, squeezed down 1/4 of the screen, you get a lot of peripheral view, so much so that I switch off my eye tracking since I don't need it as much. Since it's so large, it's obviously not as sharp as a smaller 4K TV...things in the distance can look a bit fuzzy but it's actually not unlike the real world where you look in the distance at something and the heat and haze in the air blurs things out. I might go down to a 55" but that's because I'm thinking of mounting it on a motion platform and I'm concerned about the weight. But, yeah, a big TV is good.
I swapped out from the 40-inch HD in the video to a 43-inch 4k, and wow, what a difference that made. From what I've read, 65-inch 4k is just about the perfect size if you can get the right eyepoint distance. Thanks for watching 👀
Like you show in the video, the problem with ultra wide is that if it isn’t very large, you loose the view of your instruments. Your ultra wide needs to be at least the same vertical resolution as the 16:9 monitor you would’ve otherwise gotten to get any advantages out of ultra wide. But those are significantly more expensive, and you could get a 16:9 monitor with much better specs for that money, which I think outweighs the benefits of more horizontal resolution, especially when you can look around with TrackIR.
My ultra wide is 5120x1440 @120Hz and physically the size of two 27-inch monitors next to each other. I think it works _very_ _well_ for MSFS2020, though I didn't buy it with sims in mind.
@@DowncastParadox sure, but you’d be able to see even more without zooming out as much if it were 2160 tall. I had a 2560x1080 monitor for many years, I could play flight sim games on it no problem. Except that when I got a 32” 16x9 4K panel, I realized how much vertical real estate I was missing. The point isn’t that ultra wide isn’t good, the point is that if you spend the same amount on an ultrawide as you would on 19x9, you will have a worse experience. Ultrawide is only better at significantly higher prices.
The prob with tv's is power consumption, a smart tv is essentially another computer, and draws a whole lot more power than a monitor, which is just a display with no processing going on inside. The prob with screens in general is the inability to look up, yes If your a sky trucker, you only need to look out the window, but if your a glider, or a stunt plane, or a jet, or doing anything more interesting than flying straight and level for hours, you need to look up. Maybe one day someone will invent a 1/4 sphere screen, in the meantime, I believe VR, Eye-tracking, or Projectors to be the best options.
A modern TV's power consumption isn't much more than a standard monitor. I actually just picked up a new 4k 43inch TV, it draws 86 watts. The ultra-wide I have draws 57watts. So in the grand scheme of things it might cost a $1 more a year to run the TV over a monitor. Yes VR would be better for your examples, and personally, I'd love to try it for flying helicopters. I think it would give you a better feel for what the helo is doing than what you get with a single or even a head tracker. The problem is however, VR removes your ability to operate physical switches, so you're forced back to reaching for a mouse all the time when you need to change something. So well, it might improve one aspect of a simulator. You're having to give up a different type of immersion. But like the examples you gave, it comes down to what kind of flying you're doing.
I've got an Acer 49" UW I've been using for nearly 4 years now. I like it. I have triple head to go and used three 26" Acer X26W which worked okay, but the bezels were annoying at times. Anyway, the UW is pretty good, especially if setting rather close to it. With TrackIR, I've no issues with the monitor view area. I'm sure there are better solutions, but for now, I'm good with the UW.
I had the same triple 26s at one time.. definitely not the way to go anymore. Even more so that the sims support a real multiple view now without killing your FPS.
I’m ready to sell my 49” super ultrawide and go with a 55” 4K high refresh/low latency TV. You can just see far more of the instruments and I’d rather pan left and right than up and down
You are absolutely right about that! I am of the same opinion especially when the instruments are only displayed on the same monitor as the windshield.
My 49" super ultrawide is pretty great for simming, not at all hard to move the in-game camera view to check instruments then return to looking outside
You are absolutely right especially when you are using the TV only as display for the instruments as well as the windshield because of the simultaneous view of both. However the Ultra-wide monitor makes sense when used purely as a windshield; in this situation the instruments are either displayed on a separate monitor (iPad or Windows Tablet of course with the "Air Manager" software) or a solid instrument panel has been constructed separately.
I replaced my 38" LG Ultrawide with 2 x LG 48"C2 OLED TVs on sale, best of both worlds. Massive upgrade in screen size, image OLED quality & contrast. The bezel is so thin you dont notice it. I've to turn them on and off, but as one controller operates both it's no biggie, you could also create a voice routine. Also, 4090 only has 1 HDMI port so I'd to get a Display Port adapter meaning the 2nd screen doesn't support GSync but that hasnt bothered me.
100% DISSagree! I had a 27" 16:9 when FS2020 came out, then bought a 34" LG UW - no contest! UW every time. You go on about one's FoV but what you loose in height with an UW, and who cares if you're missing some overhead sky, is a much wider FoV in the sim. You can see it when the sim starts, as it shows a 16:9 'splash screen', where you can actually see what you're missing with a 16:9, width wise. I have an EXTRA c4" per side with an UW which is simply missing from a 16:9 set, which means one can see MORE left/right without panning with the mouse.
Not that I disagree with you. But larger FOV wasn't the basis behind the video. Sure, you can see more with an UW. But where you lose out is when you try to create a real-world view. When you follow the charts and set things up to a FOV that doesn't stretch or manipulate the view, and gives you a real world feel where distance from your eye to the instrument panel, windows, and outside world equals the same as youd find in the real world. 16:9 becomes the better fit.
Hi, thanks for this video. You have clearly put a lot effort and analysis. You have considered many factors from first principle. I'm just starting out simming and excellent reviews like yours help so much. Cheers from Chicago. BTW a tv is also a lot cheaper. I find many solutions can be cheap and excellent
Thank you for the positive comment. I just upgraded to a 58inch and what a difference it makes. I've done a quick video on it and my 3D printer instrument panel I'm building.
I have a 49" super ultra wide monitor. It helps some, but not as much as I was hoping. I am thinking of supplementing it with a 24" 16:9 monitor to improve the view out the pilots side window for pattern work. (Also I 've used Track IR more than a decade.)
I use ultrawide for simracing cuz i need the sideview.. And use 50 inch TV flightsim cuz i need it to be a bit tall so the instruments can be a bit lower while my FOV can be quite quite close to ideal calculated Fov. It works for me since i dont want to adjust what i see in sim and in real that much..
The debate in simracing over the ultra wide vs 16:9 is much bigger than in the FS world. I can see how the ultra wide would be better for the side view. As your really not worried about up and down like in a plane. thanks for watching...
Can't agree at all. I had all those doubts before I got an ultrawide, but even if some of them materialized, the benefits clearly outweigh them. One benefit hasn't been really mentioned anywhere, and it's the better sense of speed. You can simulate it on a normal monitor by zooming out. Mind you I play combat sims almost exclusively and gliding in VR. I fail to see a point of trundling around in Cessna both simulated and IRL. That's why I never got a PPL. Gliding is so much better.
The feeling of speed is an interesting concpt. Possibly since the ultrawide stretches the edges but not the center. So I can see what you're saying. As for VR, yes that's the ultimate way to do things. I'm going to build a set of helicopter controls and with VR that should be wild.
I'll be honest with you. If you are building a rig downstairs. Then you seriously need to think about replacing that room with a Dof Reality motion rig with maybe a Pimax Crystal headset. The tactile stuff can then be used in the bigger rig. I absolutely love MSFS in my Quest 3, but I have even less space than your room as I live in a flat, but I would buy the Dof Reality H6 in a heart beat otherwise. 👍 Incidentally for desktop play in those rare occasions I use an 32" Asus 1440p widescreen monitor with a VA panel, not bought particularly for flight simming, but does the job.
VR has crossed my mind. I've got a bunch of hardware panels already so those become impossible to use in VR. But, I'm a big fan of helicopters. Which I have a feeling would be a dream to fly in VR, or at least a little more manageable🤣🤣
Having tested both display solutions, for flight sims it's a (16:9) 4K TV with 42'' screen or bigger (50'' or so is really sweet IMO), absolutely no doubt. Ultrawide screen may be a little better with racing-sims (still prefer triple screens though) but with flight sims it doesn't work nowhere near as good, because you loose all the (vital) vertical depth that you have with 16:9 format. Also, for flight sims, you never need more than 60Hz (and 60FPS), these are not crazy fast moving games, quite the opposite. Hence why even entry level 4K TVs get to be good solutions.
I've always prefered 16:9 large screens, Ultrawide always felt like I'm zoomed out and out of the action, It's just not immersive for me, I remember the first time I got an ultrawide and fired up GTAV I littereally couldent play it. it just looked like everything was shrunk in the middle. I rock a 65" OLED now and its fab! especially for StarCitizen.
I have the LG C1 55 inch, just behind my keyboard and flight stick. I had the Samsung G9 32:9 before and now it’s like I have two of them on top of each other! OLED is unreal. I can’t see myself ever going back now but I do worry about burn in/ out.
Thats a nice TV, but lot of money for the size.. the near invisible bezel would make blending 3 screens together really nice. What most people don't realize, however. There is no need to get something with a high refresh rate. If you're not running a high frame rate. Than spending the extra money for a high refresh rate monitor.
You're one of the few lucky ones.. not as common today as it was during FSX and eealy P3D. The jump to full 64bit sims has fixed most of the issues. But I've had issues even with MSFS with ATI/AMD video drivers.
same. I have a 55 inch 4k gaming TV and an LG 34 inch UW 21:9. I do MSFS and Racing sim on the same UW and I love it. Somebody mentioned that UW is good only for the external view in MSFS which is not true as I dont use the external view at all. I also have a 16:9 monitor which I dont use now. So yea UW has been a great experience so far. Max Verstappen the F1 champion use three UW and one 16:9 to see the data. Most racing sim drivers use UW if they cannot get the triple screen setup. Thankfully this video wasnt released at the time I bought the UW because I was so conflicted at the time of purchase but now I feel lucky that I chose the UW.
Interesting stuff! I'm still making do with an 28 inch 4k monitor, which is fine for work and watching youtube and whatnot. When it comes to MSFS, I only fly in VR. It's such a huge difference. It's the difference between looking at a picture of an airplane and actually being IN it, and flyng it. No going back for me :)
I'm going to try VR for helicopter flying. I think that would be next level. But for fixed wings, I'm building a physical flight deck. So monitors will be the only way for that.
@@thesimproject73 Ah sounds awesome! As an experienced VR user, my advice would be to take it easy with the choppers in VR initially, as you need to grow VR legs. The thing about helicopters is that they're the most challenging when it comes to VR sickness, so you really need to grow your VR legs before you can fly choppers for a long time. Then again, some people never seem to be bothered by VR sickness, so who knows. But the general advice is that as soon as you start feeling a little odd in VR, put it away for half an hour, and then maybe try again. The weird feeling does wear off after repeated use though. In fixed wing planes, especially, airliners, things are a little easier because the motion is usually just mainly forwards. You also often have more dashboard to look at, which also helps. Anyway.. Have fun with all that! :)
21:9 is nothing, i love my 32:9 49" ultra ultra wide. Sure some games can't get the FOV quite right and some games (starfield) grrrr wont even allow it but most games including fs2020 looks amazing and makes you feel more like you are sitting in the cockpit vs looking through a window and you have to pan left and right to see.
I agree about the 16:9 vs ultrawide. For an ultrawide to give you the equivalent vertical size or realistic FOV of a 16:9 it would have to be huge or impractically close to you. The trouble with calculating this realistic FOV is that it just results in a view that’s too narrow. Of course you can see on your final set up that you can’t even see the dashboard or instruments. Racing sim players set this because it affects their perception of speed which is very important in racing. Likely those players are using triple screens though. This really isn’t as important in flight. PS Correct grammar would be “for YOUR Flight Simulator”. Also “Flight” is misspelled on your thumbnail.
grammer and misspelling were intentional. Alot of people gravitate towards those items, and its actually a suggestion as a way to drive traffic and interaction 🙃.. Guess it only partially worked, since if took 11k+ views before someone mentioned it LOL..
You don't do much flying. You're like me , I buy stuff and I don't set it up or use it. I took apart my PC and I need to reinstall MSFS 2020. I bought a new monitor and it's still in the box after a month!. What do you think of a virtual reality headset?
I opened the printer today finally LOL.... VR would be cool, I have a few friends that use it in MSFS already and they love it. You're stuck however using the mouse for all your radios and so on. Which means all the panels I have become useless. But for VFR and even more so flying helicopters, I'm sure VR takes that to a whole new level.
Yup and love it.. what a difference it makes over a regular monitor. Almost done my 3D print main panel. The nice summer weather is slowing down my panel building LOL
@@thesimproject73 haha well we have those long endless winters for projects anyways haha. I have a video of my sim setup. A different take on what you’re building but I’m really happy with it. No vr, lots of buttons and peripherals and trackIR. Love it
Sorry, I took so long to answer. Camera controls are set up with the hat switch on the yoke. I'd have to dig it up for MSFS. As the control description for it, isn't super clear.
I can't afford a 4K 144hz 40 in monitor/tv. If that even exists. Nor could my gpu handle all the extra pixels. Love my 39 in 1440x3440 UW monitor. 60hz dont cut it.
Since my system is FlightSim only, really don't need 144hz. Truthfully 60hz for MSFS is lots. It's not a high speed game so no need for that fast refresh. I just picked up a 4k 43inch TV that's 60hz for $299 that looks amazing.
Maybe a dumb question but don’t really understand if there is a diff between the calculated FOV and what you use in the sim. For example, your 45 degrees is = 86? If I get a calculated FOV in the calculator of say 66%, do I need a conversion chart or just put in 66?
You need a conversation chart. From what I've read online. All simulators, be it airplane or cars. Follow the same math to convert FOV to zoom level percentage. I guess there is some sort if real world formula that matches eyepoint and FOV.
@@rulbinger I actually think ideal would be 2:1 aka "18:9". Shockingly, one of the most common screens in the world since it's very popular ratio in smartphones
Hi. Nice video ! I am debating between getting a three screen setup ot a TV such as the one you mentioned. My main concern is that with three screens you can see the edges of the runway without having to move your head much. I fly with a TrakIr but still like having the peripheral vision. I am currently using an MSI Mag 27. Any suggestions?
If your looking at 3 screens. Give this a watch. ua-cam.com/video/uc0gMN9q0rw/v-deo.htmlsi=2Q8byKR3AVsceKu8 I was going to touch on 3 screens but the video was getting too long LOL... Thanks for watching
Well my eyes can see way more than 45° off center, I'd guess it's over 100° (yes over 200° total). The distortion you see on the edge of the screen isn't meant for you to directly look at, but as a peripheral view (and your eyes actually see distorted like that btw.). Of you just got a bigger screen and set the fov higher accordingly, you'll get an overall better experience (if your pc can handle it, that is). So the 45° is dependent on the size of the monitor and your distance to it. Going from 45° and your distance to the monitor to calculate the screen size is backwards
Yes your eyes see more than 45°. Somewhere between 200° and 220° total in an arc around your head, depending on your age. You also see about 140° up and down. But when your looking at a single screen that 220° isn't in play, because the screen is directly in front of you only filling your eye's direct point of fixation (which is about 22° off centre). Your not seeing the screen with any part of your peripheral vision, since outside the point of fixation is the room around you. So you need to match the monitor size, and the right distance from your eyes to keep that point or fixation in the right place. Just using a bigger screen or messing with your FOV is not the answer, I showed that in the first few minutes of the video. Where out in front was stretched and off scale because the point of fixation is wrong. I've looked at tons of other videos and articles in sim-groups before making this and everyone is saying exactly the same thing as I am. If you really want a better experience, you need 3 screens (left, centre, right) us something like Multiview and with that you can give yourself a true 180° field of view.
@thesimproject1802 If you set Fov bigger, get a bigger screen (or sit closer to it) and blacken the edges of your screen with black tape so that the screen effectively becomes smaller with a lower FOV, so you get the same experience as with a smaller/further away monitor and a smaller FOV. But the extra display area at the edges isn't worthless as you seem to imply. It's peripheral vision, and it helps orientating. It's strictly better. Imagine having a monitor as wide as 3 screens. Would you say that's a better experience than 3 actual screens? If so, how? If not, how is a wider monitor not better experience (since you say 3 monitors are better)? If you look at photos of 3 screen setups, you'll notice that the outer two screens are very distorted - because they should be. Like I said, the edges of the screen aren't meant for you to directly look at (you can, but it will obviously look more distorted). If you however center the screen at the two buildings in the beginning of the video with a larger fov, they will look exactly the same as with a smaller fov (just smaller because you're not as zoomed in). The 45° May be coorect for you, because the screen takes 45° of your vision. If you get a huge screen, it will take more of your visual field, so you'd have to increase fov. That's why I said you've got it backwards.
Your still not understanding what the FOV is your eye actually sees. Simply changing the FOV doesn't give you the real world effect, you want in a simulator. Maybe it works in first person games, but in a Flight or Car sim. You need to scale your view to match what you would be seeing in real life. FOV is most defiantly a fix value and you move the screen position based on size. Go look it up, trust me and 1000s others are right on the topic. Commercial builders making million dollar systems that train real world pilots use the exact same formulas as shown in the video. And no I don't mean 3 screens flat across using an expanded desk top. When I say 3 screens, I mean 3 screens with 3 independent views, on a different plains. Creating a Left / Centre / Right view. Go watch this, and maybe it will help explain it far more detail than I did, 70+k views and not a single person says what you are saying. ua-cam.com/video/uc0gMN9q0rw/v-deo.htmlsi=ikZTXNtufyFgYf12
@@thesimproject73 I don't care how many views a video has. My point was this. Imagine your perfect one monitor setup, with the fov you consider ideal etc. But the screen only takes up a small part of your vision. Wouldn't it be strictly better to add more pixels and screen size around this perfect setup to give you more to see? I assume your point is that a small fov is closest to a cylindrical/spherical projection, where there would be no edge distortion. The problem there is that you lose straightness and parallelism which is worse especially for flight sim where you need to look at straight lines (runways) a lot. Instead, just use your eyes to look close to the the center of the screen, use ingame controls to look around in the world and use a big screen with a large fov Also, where does this 45° figure come from? Do you have any reference for that other than a random video you've watched, that (without any evidence whatsoever) claims this is the case? I've explained multiple times how a larger fov+larger screen is objectively better, but I've not read or heard any argument other than "objects are at the right scale" stated without any explanation why that would be the case.
@@Zolbati get what you are saying. But your not understanding the point if all this. If you want a realistic, setup that gives you a real world feel, this is hows its done. Sure zoom out and stretch the image so you can see more. But its not a realistic view. And thos who are heavy in to sims want a realistic view that mimics the real world. Hope that makes sense..
What about refresh rate of the TV? Is variable refresh rate ( VRR ) functionality feature necessary in the 60hz 4k TV to prevent screen tearing using a 7900 xtx gpu with a 7800x3d cpu where the frame rate could fall below 60fps sometimes at the 4k resolution in Microsoft Flight Simulator X?
You'll be hard pressed getting 60fps at 4k from even high end systems with MSFS once you drop a higher end aircraft like a PMDG and some highly detailed scenery. I've going amd upgraded to a 4k 43 inch TV and run at 2k at 60fps soild no matter what I'm flying. With MSFS the difference between 4k and 2k is so minor, yet GPU load is half as much or less.
Ive had a 25" LG Ultrawide Monitor for day to day Internet & I would never go back to a std 16:9 monitor but work does have 16:9 monitors so its quite easy for me to switch back & forward. Ive had a Samsung 34" Ultrawide for MSFS 2020 since Nov 2020 at 3440x1440 & I like the extra screen space. Too be fair, I always tend to fly outside & just go into the "Flight Deck" screen to set speed & Alt. Also if its completely dark then I'll use the "Flight Deck" Screen. An Ultrawide Screen is great for loads of different things. Im currently watching yr UA-cam video while watching a 2nd UA-cam video at the same time. Don't auto update GFX drivers. Uninstall the old drivers & install the new drivers. Last point, that MSI Ultrawide is a curved Ultrawide as opposed to a std Ultrawide . Ive never liked the look of the Curved. You also dont mention Refresh rate on the 10 yr TV as opposed to the MSI Curved Gaming monitor. I would say you went into way too much detail for me about how far away from the screen & that for me but what ever you like doing I say.
I bought a 4K 43" tv for my flightsim and when using it in 4K and even using it 2K my frame rates tanked from 80 fps to 20 in 4K and to 30 in 2K and 45 in 1080p which was not too bad but graphics sucked, the problem is the tv is only 60hz refresh rate in order to keep fps high you have to get a tv with at least 75hz or above the higher the refresh rate the better and that adds cost to the tv. So I went back to my 2K monitor until I can come up with the money to get a high refresh tv.
Depends what GFX you have as well as the rest of yr setup. There will be plenty of people using 3060/3070 but for me the min should be at least a 3080 & an I7/32GB Ram
@@robh8814 I have an AMD R9 5900X and a RX 7900XTX graphics well above the specs you pointed out. I run FS2020 with FSLTL and full ultra around 60 to 95 FPS in big cities.
You’re incorrect about drivers. You should always keep drivers updated. More trouble comes from not updating these than keeping them current. It’s very rare for new drivers to cause problems.
When using some older software, new drivers can regularly cause issues. We'll I'm not saying you need to avoid all updates. Being one of those people who runs out and grabs the newest driver the second they are released. Can also lead to more issues as well. A balanced approach needs to be taken.
This video seems like more of an argument getting a *larger ultrawide* than getting a 16:9. A 40" 21:9 will give the same vertical space as a 32" 16:9. 45" 21:9 will give the same vertical space as a 36" 16:9. 34" 21:9 will give the same vertical space as a 27" 16:9.
Even with up sizing, you still end up with the same field of view. When you place the screen, the correct distance from your eye and zoom level. Which is required of you're trying to get a real-world view. Which was the force if the video. If you don't care about a realistic view, then sure, ultrawide works better.
@@thesimproject73 Maybe I misunderstood...? On a 40" 21:9, assuming same vertical height, same FOV and same distance away, you would simply gain additional visibility to your left/right sides compared to a 32" 16:9 screen. Exactly as shown here: ua-cam.com/video/V08fMopuDuc/v-deo.html As your eyes tend to be central to the display, the extra bits on both sides would count as extra 'peripheral info' that you're likely not directly focused on, similar to real life. This, combined with a Tobii head tracker, which maintains the center of your vision no matter where you look, is the best setup at the moment. ua-cam.com/video/BQmXUyhYBQo/v-deo.html (with the Tobii) With a larger screen, you would need to decrease the zoom level, as the aircraft controls(and everything) would be too big in scale. With a 21:9 screen as large as 40" or more, the distortion on the edges should be harder to see.
I can see it on the channel back end in YT studio. You added links to other channels. So, most likely, YT restricted your comment as you're possibly not a verified YT user. You have to be verified to add links to comments. They don't want people posting random unrelated links in the video comments. I hear what you are saying. But I think what you're not understanding what I'm saying. It's not just about FOV here. It's about FOV that matches real-world dimensions. When I'm in my flight simulator and look at the panel, following the setup I described in the video everything is sized 1:1 to the real world. The runway out in front matches the correct sizing and distance from your eyepoint. Simply going with a bigger monitor and settong a larger FOV will skew those dimensions unless you adjust the zoom level and postion the monitor to correct distance away from where you're sitting. This is super important when building a physical simulator to run in tandem with the display as I'm in the process of doing. Yes, if you're just showing everything on your monitor and are more worried about seeing things without having to change your view. Then yes, an UW monitor works better in that case. I'm about a month away from releasing the full built of my sim panel. And once that comes out things will make a lot more sense if you want to watch for that.
@@thesimproject73 Thanks, the link thing is good to know, I thought it was only blocked for sites outside of youtube. After rewatching the video, I think I see your point, the crux of it is I seem to have the opposite of your issue. Where you're forced to sit 40" away, I'm actually forced to sit close, at around 20" with my set up. In my case, the monitor engulfs my whole vision and the distortions on the sides remain outside the focus of my eyes. Sure enough, when altering the distance on the FOV calculator, I get a different "ideal FOV" value. My current space is a bit tight but I'll be staying tuned for your full Sim setup
My specs, never going back to overpriced computer monitors again, MSI Raider GE76 12UHS-607 17.3" Gaming Laptop Computer - Blue Intel Core i9 12th Gen 12900HK 1.8GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB GDDR6; 64GB DDR5-4800 RAM; Dual M2 2TB Solid State Drives.Driving a LG 50UQ7570PUJ, and LG50UQ7070ZUE @ 4k 3724x2094. Everything on ultra,30 FPS locked with PMDG, Fenix and 234 payware airports...
This is just plain wrong. I’m running 57” 32x9 8k 1000R curve and it is absolutely incredible and significantly more immersive than 16x9. Plus in DCS it gives you a significant advantage with situational awareness. Sitting at 24” from center you get awesome peripheral view and no distortion
I maybe not wrong at 34 @21:9.. But at 57 and 32:9 sitting 24inchs back. I'll give you that one LOL.. that monitor however is a little out of the range of most people's budget, as well as the computer it needs to run it. Sounds fun however 😁
From what I've read 55inch is the perfect size. The pixel spacing is right where it should be and it gives you a much more real feel. Above 55 the pixel space becomes to much and you start to loose quality. I'd love to try VR, I think it would be great for flying helicopters. Thanks for watching.
get a new 4k 55inch 120hz and the lesser quality problem is solved. that would probably be the way to go for me, even if you have to turn it down to 1440p for better performance.
Update your drivers regularly. Trust me. He is 100% wrong on this. Oh wait, AMD ? lol Never mind. I meant for nvidia updates are great, AMD its a crap shoot.
I take it you didn't watch the whole video or don't understand the concept of creating a realistic 1:1 view within a sim when building realistic to scale hardware. But thanks for the comment anyways, it helps the algorithm either way 😎👍
You would be correct. It's a Garmin GTC550 touch screen interface for the G2000/30000. Can be rotated 90° and used as a GTN750 as well. Not setup for controlling the screen zoom but could easily be done using Mobi-Flight. Here's the built video, working on a better version for my Glass GA panel ua-cam.com/video/du6pWPi1SV4/v-deo.html
I think it depends on the kind of flying you’re doing. If you’re doing technical in cockpit then a large tv is the way to go so you can actually see the gauges. If you fly outside the plane mostly then ultrawide is for you.
I think you hit the nail on the head... I belive what we are seeing especially with MSFS. There are a alot more casual users who are doing just that, by flying from outside the plane. As unlike X-Plane or P3D, MSFS is attracting a broader group of people, both the casual and technical types...
Thanks for watching 👀
I think there are a lot more variables here than one might think, in that I don't think that there's the perfect monitor size, ratio, or zoom level that will work for all aircraft and for everyone. As for ultrawide vs 16:9, that's an interesting discussion, but once again a large 21:9 ultrawide (greater than 40") is going to give you a more immersive experience than a 34" one - even at the same resolution. Also, a 21:9 ultrawide that has the same height as a 16:9 monitor will most certainly give you a more immersive experience at the same zoom level and resolution. For example, a ~40" 21:9 monitor has the same physical height in cm or inches as a 32" 16:9 monitor does, but gives you more view in your peripheral vision. I plan on getting a 21:9 4K OLED sometime in 2024, when the right monitor hits the market. For me, I'd like around a 42" ultrawide with maybe a 1200r curvature. The 1440p 45" LG Ultragear with an 800r curve is a bit too large and a bit too curved for my liking, and at 1440p it really sacrifices dpi over a smaller monitor. Don't get me wrong, it's an impressive looking monitor, but it really should have had at least a 3840x1600 resolution vs. 3440x1440. Having said all that, I REALLY wish that manufacturers would make a 2:1 ratio monitor that splits the difference between 16:9 and 21:9. I think that the 2:1 ratio more closely aligns with how the human eye works, in that we have more of a horizontal oval view of the world around us than a perfect circle. I'm not holding my breath on that one though...
Bro you've said it all, it's like you're reading our minds. You really know what you're talking about. You're the one who should be making content about monitor technology.
Appreciate your viewpoint... I do use an Ultrawide for MS2020 at 2K. I don't need higher resolution than that at the expense of frame-rate, but I do love the ultrawide. I also have two 26" or 27" ASUS 2K monitors on each side of the 34" UW and they are in Portrait orientation (just the ASUS's). So for example, when I fly the Wilga, I can adjust the 3 monitors view in MS2020 to allow me to see out the sides of the Wilga and it's just amazing. The amount of FOV is tremendous. There is not much frame-rate degradation either.... Takes a minute to get the FOV ratios good and the alignment just right, but dang.....what a view. Thanks for the TV suggestion, I'm going to try that with a spare tv.
Sounds like a cool setup.
I use the ultra wide… because I also do first person shooter. Yes, my sim is used for loads of things… even case work sometimes.
100% agree, i got the lg ultra 45” ultrawide and returned it the same day, the fish eye effect was crazy. FO’s instrument felt much closer than the instruments in front of me
You know you can adjust the zoom and angle of view in the settings right?
@kem,, WtF are you on about?! 'Fish Eye'??? You must be new to 'settings'!
I went from a 65 inch 4K 60Hz TV to the Samsung G9 32:9 240 Hz monitor and then went back to a 16:9 55 inch LG C1 120Hz OLED two year’s later, but placed it on my desk right behind my keyboard and it’s just like having two Samsung G9’s on top of each other.
As long as the 16:9 is big and close enough it looks much better than 32:9. At least to me. I have almost double the screen space and a higher resolution.
It took a week or so to get used to the flat screen though.
This was a very helpful and well explained video!
Yesterday, after reading about folks that had done this, I hooked up a 4K 65" TV to my sim. I was skeptical but decided to try it. I'm still experimenting, trying full-screen and various different sizes in windowed mode. I'm sitting about 4 feet from the screen. I'll say this. Wow. Everything feels more solid and real. You pick up the shape of the runway at a distance like you do in the real world. Knobs in the cockpit are realistic size. In windowed mode, squeezed down 1/4 of the screen, you get a lot of peripheral view, so much so that I switch off my eye tracking since I don't need it as much. Since it's so large, it's obviously not as sharp as a smaller 4K TV...things in the distance can look a bit fuzzy but it's actually not unlike the real world where you look in the distance at something and the heat and haze in the air blurs things out. I might go down to a 55" but that's because I'm thinking of mounting it on a motion platform and I'm concerned about the weight. But, yeah, a big TV is good.
I swapped out from the 40-inch HD in the video to a 43-inch 4k, and wow, what a difference that made. From what I've read, 65-inch 4k is just about the perfect size if you can get the right eyepoint distance.
Thanks for watching 👀
@@thesimproject73what about the response time of a tv vs a monitor?
I use an ultrawide for my day to day work, but my gaming is on a 42" UHD 4K TV! Switched that up 4 months back and I'm hooked.
I swapped the 40HD in the video to a 43inch 4k just before Christmas. Agreed, completely hooked.
@@thesimproject73 What about refresh rate? Minimum recommendation?
Like you show in the video, the problem with ultra wide is that if it isn’t very large, you loose the view of your instruments.
Your ultra wide needs to be at least the same vertical resolution as the 16:9 monitor you would’ve otherwise gotten to get any advantages out of ultra wide.
But those are significantly more expensive, and you could get a 16:9 monitor with much better specs for that money, which I think outweighs the benefits of more horizontal resolution, especially when you can look around with TrackIR.
My ultra wide is 5120x1440 @120Hz and physically the size of two 27-inch monitors next to each other. I think it works _very_ _well_ for MSFS2020, though I didn't buy it with sims in mind.
@@DowncastParadox sure, but you’d be able to see even more without zooming out as much if it were 2160 tall.
I had a 2560x1080 monitor for many years, I could play flight sim games on it no problem. Except that when I got a 32” 16x9 4K panel, I realized how much vertical real estate I was missing.
The point isn’t that ultra wide isn’t good, the point is that if you spend the same amount on an ultrawide as you would on 19x9, you will have a worse experience. Ultrawide is only better at significantly higher prices.
The prob with tv's is power consumption, a smart tv is essentially another computer, and draws a whole lot more power than a monitor, which is just a display with no processing going on inside.
The prob with screens in general is the inability to look up, yes If your a sky trucker, you only need to look out the window, but if your a glider, or a stunt plane, or a jet, or doing anything more interesting than flying straight and level for hours, you need to look up.
Maybe one day someone will invent a 1/4 sphere screen, in the meantime, I believe VR, Eye-tracking, or Projectors to be the best options.
A modern TV's power consumption isn't much more than a standard monitor. I actually just picked up a new 4k 43inch TV, it draws 86 watts. The ultra-wide I have draws 57watts. So in the grand scheme of things it might cost a $1 more a year to run the TV over a monitor.
Yes VR would be better for your examples, and personally, I'd love to try it for flying helicopters. I think it would give you a better feel for what the helo is doing than what you get with a single or even a head tracker. The problem is however, VR removes your ability to operate physical switches, so you're forced back to reaching for a mouse all the time when you need to change something. So well, it might improve one aspect of a simulator. You're having to give up a different type of immersion. But like the examples you gave, it comes down to what kind of flying you're doing.
I've got an Acer 49" UW I've been using for nearly 4 years now. I like it. I have triple head to go and used three 26" Acer X26W which worked okay, but the bezels were annoying at times. Anyway, the UW is pretty good, especially if setting rather close to it. With TrackIR, I've no issues with the monitor view area. I'm sure there are better solutions, but for now, I'm good with the UW.
I had the same triple 26s at one time.. definitely not the way to go anymore. Even more so that the sims support a real multiple view now without killing your FPS.
3 x 32" 1500R curved Viewsonic monitors work great for me, no distortions on MSFS2020 (Volairsim)
I’m ready to sell my 49” super ultrawide and go with a 55” 4K high refresh/low latency TV. You can just see far more of the instruments and I’d rather pan left and right than up and down
You are absolutely right about that! I am of the same opinion especially when the instruments are only displayed on the same monitor as the windshield.
i think ultrawide for car sims, is a good option, because you can place it on top of your wheel base.
for flight sims, TVs.
My 49" super ultrawide is pretty great for simming, not at all hard to move the in-game camera view to check instruments then return to looking outside
You are absolutely right especially when you are using the TV only as display for the instruments as well as the windshield because of the simultaneous view of both. However the Ultra-wide monitor makes sense when used purely as a windshield; in this situation the instruments are either displayed on a separate monitor (iPad or Windows Tablet of course with the "Air Manager" software) or a solid instrument panel has been constructed separately.
Never tried it but I'd take a guess you're on to something about using it strictly for a windshield view.
I replaced my 38" LG Ultrawide with 2 x LG 48"C2 OLED TVs on sale, best of both worlds. Massive upgrade in screen size, image OLED quality & contrast. The bezel is so thin you dont notice it.
I've to turn them on and off, but as one controller operates both it's no biggie, you could also create a voice routine. Also, 4090 only has 1 HDMI port so I'd to get a Display Port adapter meaning the 2nd screen doesn't support GSync but that hasnt bothered me.
100% DISSagree! I had a 27" 16:9 when FS2020 came out, then bought a 34" LG UW - no contest! UW every time. You go on about one's FoV but what you loose in height with an UW, and who cares if you're missing some overhead sky, is a much wider FoV in the sim. You can see it when the sim starts, as it shows a 16:9 'splash screen', where you can actually see what you're missing with a 16:9, width wise. I have an EXTRA c4" per side with an UW which is simply missing from a 16:9 set, which means one can see MORE left/right without panning with the mouse.
Not that I disagree with you. But larger FOV wasn't the basis behind the video. Sure, you can see more with an UW. But where you lose out is when you try to create a real-world view. When you follow the charts and set things up to a FOV that doesn't stretch or manipulate the view, and gives you a real world feel where distance from your eye to the instrument panel, windows, and outside world equals the same as youd find in the real world. 16:9 becomes the better fit.
Hi, thanks for this video. You have clearly put a lot effort and analysis. You have considered many factors from first principle. I'm just starting out simming and excellent reviews like yours help so much. Cheers from Chicago. BTW a tv is also a lot cheaper. I find many solutions can be cheap and excellent
Thank you for the positive comment. I just upgraded to a 58inch and what a difference it makes. I've done a quick video on it and my 3D printer instrument panel I'm building.
I have a 49" super ultra wide monitor. It helps some, but not as much as I was hoping. I am thinking of supplementing it with a 24" 16:9 monitor to improve the view out the pilots side window for pattern work. (Also I 've used Track IR more than a decade.)
I've never used track-Ir but know lots of people who do and like it.
Thanks for watching and commenting 😎
I use ultrawide for simracing cuz i need the sideview..
And use 50 inch TV flightsim cuz i need it to be a bit tall so the instruments can be a bit lower while my FOV can be quite quite close to ideal calculated Fov.
It works for me since i dont want to adjust what i see in sim and in real that much..
The debate in simracing over the ultra wide vs 16:9 is much bigger than in the FS world. I can see how the ultra wide would be better for the side view. As your really not worried about up and down like in a plane.
thanks for watching...
Can't agree at all. I had all those doubts before I got an ultrawide, but even if some of them materialized, the benefits clearly outweigh them. One benefit hasn't been really mentioned anywhere, and it's the better sense of speed. You can simulate it on a normal monitor by zooming out.
Mind you I play combat sims almost exclusively and gliding in VR. I fail to see a point of trundling around in Cessna both simulated and IRL. That's why I never got a PPL. Gliding is so much better.
The feeling of speed is an interesting concpt. Possibly since the ultrawide stretches the edges but not the center. So I can see what you're saying.
As for VR, yes that's the ultimate way to do things. I'm going to build a set of helicopter controls and with VR that should be wild.
Couldn’t agree more. Love my 48“ 16/9
In my Quest 3, it's about 200" haha! 😄
I'll be honest with you. If you are building a rig downstairs. Then you seriously need to think about replacing that room with a Dof Reality motion rig with maybe a Pimax Crystal headset. The tactile stuff can then be used in the bigger rig. I absolutely love MSFS in my Quest 3, but I have even less space than your room as I live in a flat, but I would buy the Dof Reality H6 in a heart beat otherwise. 👍 Incidentally for desktop play in those rare occasions I use an 32" Asus 1440p widescreen monitor with a VA panel, not bought particularly for flight simming, but does the job.
VR has crossed my mind. I've got a bunch of hardware panels already so those become impossible to use in VR. But, I'm a big fan of helicopters. Which I have a feeling would be a dream to fly in VR, or at least a little more manageable🤣🤣
great job... I've liked and subscribed as it's is a great informative video... well done. Keep it up!
I usually fly in VR but for fun I tried to put a 55 inch lg oled directly behind the yoke. It's unbelivably immersive even coming from VR.
Having tested both display solutions, for flight sims it's a (16:9) 4K TV with 42'' screen or bigger (50'' or so is really sweet IMO), absolutely no doubt.
Ultrawide screen may be a little better with racing-sims (still prefer triple screens though) but with flight sims it doesn't work nowhere near as good, because you loose all the (vital) vertical depth that you have with 16:9 format.
Also, for flight sims, you never need more than 60Hz (and 60FPS), these are not crazy fast moving games, quite the opposite. Hence why even entry level 4K TVs get to be good solutions.
I've always prefered 16:9 large screens, Ultrawide always felt like I'm zoomed out and out of the action, It's just not immersive for me, I remember the first time I got an ultrawide and fired up GTAV I littereally couldent play it. it just looked like everything was shrunk in the middle. I rock a 65" OLED now and its fab! especially for StarCitizen.
I have the LG C1 55 inch, just behind my keyboard and flight stick. I had the Samsung G9 32:9 before and now it’s like I have two of them on top of each other! OLED is unreal. I can’t see myself ever going back now but I do worry about burn in/ out.
Take a look at the LG C3 43" monitor with 120htz refresh
Thats a nice TV, but lot of money for the size.. the near invisible bezel would make blending 3 screens together really nice. What most people don't realize, however. There is no need to get something with a high refresh rate. If you're not running a high frame rate. Than spending the extra money for a high refresh rate monitor.
great video, im not even intrested in getting a sim, still amazing, u got a extra sub!
Thanks for the sub..
I was eyeballing the new Sammy 57 inch G9.
I've literally never had any problems with a flight Sim after updating drivers.
You're one of the few lucky ones.. not as common today as it was during FSX and eealy P3D. The jump to full 64bit sims has fixed most of the issues. But I've had issues even with MSFS with ATI/AMD video drivers.
Sorry i cannot agree. Ultrawide is awesome for flightsiming.
Same. I love my 34” curve UW
@@rcflyer6241same with me! Would never go back!
I can accept that.. It really comes down to personal choice.
Thanks for watching
same. I have a 55 inch 4k gaming TV and an LG 34 inch UW 21:9. I do MSFS and Racing sim on the same UW and I love it. Somebody mentioned that UW is good only for the external view in MSFS which is not true as I dont use the external view at all. I also have a 16:9 monitor which I dont use now. So yea UW has been a great experience so far. Max Verstappen the F1 champion use three UW and one 16:9 to see the data. Most racing sim drivers use UW if they cannot get the triple screen setup. Thankfully this video wasnt released at the time I bought the UW because I was so conflicted at the time of purchase but now I feel lucky that I chose the UW.
@@rcflyer6241 I want UW but can’t stand even a bit of fisheye 😢
Interesting stuff! I'm still making do with an 28 inch 4k monitor, which is fine for work and watching youtube and whatnot. When it comes to MSFS, I only fly in VR. It's such a huge difference. It's the difference between looking at a picture of an airplane and actually being IN it, and flyng it. No going back for me :)
I'm going to try VR for helicopter flying. I think that would be next level. But for fixed wings, I'm building a physical flight deck. So monitors will be the only way for that.
@@thesimproject73 Ah sounds awesome! As an experienced VR user, my advice would be to take it easy with the choppers in VR initially, as you need to grow VR legs. The thing about helicopters is that they're the most challenging when it comes to VR sickness, so you really need to grow your VR legs before you can fly choppers for a long time.
Then again, some people never seem to be bothered by VR sickness, so who knows. But the general advice is that as soon as you start feeling a little odd in VR, put it away for half an hour, and then maybe try again. The weird feeling does wear off after repeated use though.
In fixed wing planes, especially, airliners, things are a little easier because the motion is usually just mainly forwards. You also often have more dashboard to look at, which also helps.
Anyway.. Have fun with all that! :)
21:9 is nothing, i love my 32:9 49" ultra ultra wide. Sure some games can't get the FOV quite right and some games (starfield) grrrr wont even allow it but most games including fs2020 looks amazing and makes you feel more like you are sitting in the cockpit vs looking through a window and you have to pan left and right to see.
Im using a 49" G9 Samsung Odyssey in centre with two 27" iiyama's fantastic for Flight Sim and Driving games
So I did this. Replaced the g9 with a 38” rog and way better immersive experience
I agree about the 16:9 vs ultrawide. For an ultrawide to give you the equivalent vertical size or realistic FOV of a 16:9 it would have to be huge or impractically close to you. The trouble with calculating this realistic FOV is that it just results in a view that’s too narrow. Of course you can see on your final set up that you can’t even see the dashboard or instruments. Racing sim players set this because it affects their perception of speed which is very important in racing. Likely those players are using triple screens though. This really isn’t as important in flight. PS Correct grammar would be “for YOUR Flight Simulator”. Also “Flight” is misspelled on your thumbnail.
grammer and misspelling were intentional. Alot of people gravitate towards those items, and its actually a suggestion as a way to drive traffic and interaction 🙃.. Guess it only partially worked, since if took 11k+ views before someone mentioned it LOL..
@@thesimproject73 worked on me! 😆
the ultrawide idea is suppose to basically replace 2 screen setups by putting 2 together into 1 screen
You don't do much flying. You're like me , I buy stuff and I don't set it up or use it. I took apart my PC and I need to reinstall MSFS 2020. I bought a new monitor and it's still in the box after a month!. What do you think of a virtual reality headset?
I opened the printer today finally LOL.... VR would be cool, I have a few friends that use it in MSFS already and they love it. You're stuck however using the mouse for all your radios and so on. Which means all the panels I have become useless. But for VFR and even more so flying helicopters, I'm sure VR takes that to a whole new level.
Did you get the 4K 42” (or was it 55”?) tv yet?
Oh I see you got the 43” 4K
Yup and love it.. what a difference it makes over a regular monitor. Almost done my 3D print main panel. The nice summer weather is slowing down my panel building LOL
@@thesimproject73 haha well we have those long endless winters for projects anyways haha. I have a video of my sim setup. A different take on what you’re building but I’m really happy with it. No vr, lots of buttons and peripherals and trackIR. Love it
How do you move your camera like that with the yoke?
Sorry, I took so long to answer. Camera controls are set up with the hat switch on the yoke. I'd have to dig it up for MSFS. As the control description for it, isn't super clear.
I can't afford a 4K 144hz 40 in monitor/tv. If that even exists. Nor could my gpu handle all the extra pixels.
Love my 39 in 1440x3440 UW monitor.
60hz dont cut it.
Since my system is FlightSim only, really don't need 144hz. Truthfully 60hz for MSFS is lots. It's not a high speed game so no need for that fast refresh. I just picked up a 4k 43inch TV that's 60hz for $299 that looks amazing.
Maybe a dumb question but don’t really understand if there is a diff between the calculated FOV and what you use in the sim. For example, your 45 degrees is = 86?
If I get a calculated FOV in the calculator of say 66%, do I need a conversion chart or just put in 66?
You need a conversation chart. From what I've read online. All simulators, be it airplane or cars. Follow the same math to convert FOV to zoom level percentage. I guess there is some sort if real world formula that matches eyepoint and FOV.
@@thesimproject73 thanks!
They need to make ultra-wide monitors with an "ultra-tall"
Option...😏
something like a 32:18 screen? 🙃
@@rulbinger I actually think ideal would be 2:1 aka "18:9". Shockingly, one of the most common screens in the world since it's very popular ratio in smartphones
Hi. Nice video ! I am debating between getting a three screen setup ot a TV such as the one you mentioned. My main concern is that with three screens you can see the edges of the runway without having to move your head much. I fly with a TrakIr but still like having the peripheral vision. I am currently using an MSI Mag 27. Any suggestions?
If your looking at 3 screens. Give this a watch.
ua-cam.com/video/uc0gMN9q0rw/v-deo.htmlsi=2Q8byKR3AVsceKu8
I was going to touch on 3 screens but the video was getting too long LOL... Thanks for watching
Well my eyes can see way more than 45° off center, I'd guess it's over 100° (yes over 200° total). The distortion you see on the edge of the screen isn't meant for you to directly look at, but as a peripheral view (and your eyes actually see distorted like that btw.). Of you just got a bigger screen and set the fov higher accordingly, you'll get an overall better experience (if your pc can handle it, that is). So the 45° is dependent on the size of the monitor and your distance to it. Going from 45° and your distance to the monitor to calculate the screen size is backwards
Yes your eyes see more than 45°. Somewhere between 200° and 220° total in an arc around your head, depending on your age. You also see about 140° up and down. But when your looking at a single screen that 220° isn't in play, because the screen is directly in front of you only filling your eye's direct point of fixation (which is about 22° off centre). Your not seeing the screen with any part of your peripheral vision, since outside the point of fixation is the room around you. So you need to match the monitor size, and the right distance from your eyes to keep that point or fixation in the right place. Just using a bigger screen or messing with your FOV is not the answer, I showed that in the first few minutes of the video. Where out in front was stretched and off scale because the point of fixation is wrong. I've looked at tons of other videos and articles in sim-groups before making this and everyone is saying exactly the same thing as I am.
If you really want a better experience, you need 3 screens (left, centre, right) us something like Multiview and with that you can give yourself a true 180° field of view.
@thesimproject1802 If you set Fov bigger, get a bigger screen (or sit closer to it) and blacken the edges of your screen with black tape so that the screen effectively becomes smaller with a lower FOV, so you get the same experience as with a smaller/further away monitor and a smaller FOV. But the extra display area at the edges isn't worthless as you seem to imply. It's peripheral vision, and it helps orientating. It's strictly better.
Imagine having a monitor as wide as 3 screens. Would you say that's a better experience than 3 actual screens? If so, how? If not, how is a wider monitor not better experience (since you say 3 monitors are better)? If you look at photos of 3 screen setups, you'll notice that the outer two screens are very distorted - because they should be. Like I said, the edges of the screen aren't meant for you to directly look at (you can, but it will obviously look more distorted). If you however center the screen at the two buildings in the beginning of the video with a larger fov, they will look exactly the same as with a smaller fov (just smaller because you're not as zoomed in). The 45° May be coorect for you, because the screen takes 45° of your vision. If you get a huge screen, it will take more of your visual field, so you'd have to increase fov. That's why I said you've got it backwards.
Your still not understanding what the FOV is your eye actually sees. Simply changing the FOV doesn't give you the real world effect, you want in a simulator. Maybe it works in first person games, but in a Flight or Car sim. You need to scale your view to match what you would be seeing in real life. FOV is most defiantly a fix value and you move the screen position based on size. Go look it up, trust me and 1000s others are right on the topic. Commercial builders making million dollar systems that train real world pilots use the exact same formulas as shown in the video.
And no I don't mean 3 screens flat across using an expanded desk top. When I say 3 screens, I mean 3 screens with 3 independent views, on a different plains. Creating a Left / Centre / Right view. Go watch this, and maybe it will help explain it far more detail than I did, 70+k views and not a single person says what you are saying. ua-cam.com/video/uc0gMN9q0rw/v-deo.htmlsi=ikZTXNtufyFgYf12
@@thesimproject73 I don't care how many views a video has. My point was this. Imagine your perfect one monitor setup, with the fov you consider ideal etc. But the screen only takes up a small part of your vision. Wouldn't it be strictly better to add more pixels and screen size around this perfect setup to give you more to see?
I assume your point is that a small fov is closest to a cylindrical/spherical projection, where there would be no edge distortion. The problem there is that you lose straightness and parallelism which is worse especially for flight sim where you need to look at straight lines (runways) a lot. Instead, just use your eyes to look close to the the center of the screen, use ingame controls to look around in the world and use a big screen with a large fov
Also, where does this 45° figure come from? Do you have any reference for that other than a random video you've watched, that (without any evidence whatsoever) claims this is the case? I've explained multiple times how a larger fov+larger screen is objectively better, but I've not read or heard any argument other than "objects are at the right scale" stated without any explanation why that would be the case.
@@Zolbati get what you are saying. But your not understanding the point if all this. If you want a realistic, setup that gives you a real world feel, this is hows its done. Sure zoom out and stretch the image so you can see more. But its not a realistic view. And thos who are heavy in to sims want a realistic view that mimics the real world.
Hope that makes sense..
What about refresh rate of the TV? Is variable refresh rate ( VRR ) functionality feature necessary in the 60hz 4k TV to prevent screen tearing using a 7900 xtx gpu with a 7800x3d cpu where the frame rate could fall below 60fps sometimes at the 4k resolution in Microsoft Flight Simulator X?
You'll be hard pressed getting 60fps at 4k from even high end systems with MSFS once you drop a higher end aircraft like a PMDG and some highly detailed scenery. I've going amd upgraded to a 4k 43 inch TV and run at 2k at 60fps soild no matter what I'm flying. With MSFS the difference between 4k and 2k is so minor, yet GPU load is half as much or less.
Ive had a 25" LG Ultrawide Monitor for day to day Internet & I would never go back to a std 16:9 monitor but work does have 16:9 monitors so its quite easy for me to switch back & forward.
Ive had a Samsung 34" Ultrawide for MSFS 2020 since Nov 2020 at 3440x1440 & I like the extra screen space. Too be fair, I always tend to fly outside & just go into the "Flight Deck" screen to set speed & Alt. Also if its completely dark then I'll use the "Flight Deck" Screen.
An Ultrawide Screen is great for loads of different things. Im currently watching yr UA-cam video while watching a 2nd UA-cam video at the same time.
Don't auto update GFX drivers. Uninstall the old drivers & install the new drivers.
Last point, that MSI Ultrawide is a curved Ultrawide as opposed to a std Ultrawide . Ive never liked the look of the Curved.
You also dont mention Refresh rate on the 10 yr TV as opposed to the MSI Curved Gaming monitor. I would say you went into way too much detail for me about how far away from the screen & that for me but what ever you like doing I say.
One-Thousand-Percent agree!!!! If I go curved, it will be a full aspect TV about 50 inches!
I bought a 4K 43" tv for my flightsim and when using it in 4K and even using it 2K my frame rates tanked from 80 fps to 20 in 4K and to 30 in 2K and 45 in 1080p which was not too bad
but graphics sucked, the problem is the tv is only 60hz refresh rate in order to keep fps high you have to get a tv with at least 75hz or above the higher the refresh rate the better and that adds cost to the tv. So I went back to my 2K monitor until I can come up with the money to get a high refresh tv.
Depends what GFX you have as well as the rest of yr setup. There will be plenty of people using 3060/3070 but for me the min should be at least a 3080 & an I7/32GB Ram
@@robh8814 I have an AMD R9 5900X and a RX 7900XTX graphics well above the specs you pointed out. I run FS2020 with FSLTL and full ultra around 60 to 95 FPS in big cities.
@@mason19548I7 9700(4.7), Aorus RTX 3080,32GB DDR4, 3440 * 1440 FSLTL & around 30-50 but drop down to 25 arnd LAX at times.
i take every driver update I can get my hands on and its working fine - except: over time I way better performance
You’re incorrect about drivers. You should always keep drivers updated. More trouble comes from not updating these than keeping them current. It’s very rare for new drivers to cause problems.
When using some older software, new drivers can regularly cause issues. We'll I'm not saying you need to avoid all updates. Being one of those people who runs out and grabs the newest driver the second they are released. Can also lead to more issues as well. A balanced approach needs to be taken.
This video seems like more of an argument getting a *larger ultrawide* than getting a 16:9.
A 40" 21:9 will give the same vertical space as a 32" 16:9.
45" 21:9 will give the same vertical space as a 36" 16:9.
34" 21:9 will give the same vertical space as a 27" 16:9.
Even with up sizing, you still end up with the same field of view. When you place the screen, the correct distance from your eye and zoom level. Which is required of you're trying to get a real-world view. Which was the force if the video.
If you don't care about a realistic view, then sure, ultrawide works better.
@@thesimproject73 Maybe I misunderstood...? On a 40" 21:9, assuming same vertical height, same FOV and same distance away, you would simply gain additional visibility to your left/right sides compared to a 32" 16:9 screen. Exactly as shown here: ua-cam.com/video/V08fMopuDuc/v-deo.html
As your eyes tend to be central to the display, the extra bits on both sides would count as extra 'peripheral info' that you're likely not directly focused on, similar to real life. This, combined with a Tobii head tracker, which maintains the center of your vision no matter where you look, is the best setup at the moment.
ua-cam.com/video/BQmXUyhYBQo/v-deo.html (with the Tobii)
With a larger screen, you would need to decrease the zoom level, as the aircraft controls(and everything) would be too big in scale. With a 21:9 screen as large as 40" or more, the distortion on the edges should be harder to see.
@@thesimproject73 Hello, I replied to this comment but it seems it was deleted? Did you get the notification at all?
I can see it on the channel back end in YT studio. You added links to other channels. So, most likely, YT restricted your comment as you're possibly not a verified YT user. You have to be verified to add links to comments. They don't want people posting random unrelated links in the video comments.
I hear what you are saying. But I think what you're not understanding what I'm saying. It's not just about FOV here. It's about FOV that matches real-world dimensions. When I'm in my flight simulator and look at the panel, following the setup I described in the video everything is sized 1:1 to the real world. The runway out in front matches the correct sizing and distance from your eyepoint. Simply going with a bigger monitor and settong a larger FOV will skew those dimensions unless you adjust the zoom level and postion the monitor to correct distance away from where you're sitting. This is super important when building a physical simulator to run in tandem with the display as I'm in the process of doing. Yes, if you're just showing everything on your monitor and are more worried about seeing things without having to change your view. Then yes, an UW monitor works better in that case.
I'm about a month away from releasing the full built of my sim panel. And once that comes out things will make a lot more sense if you want to watch for that.
@@thesimproject73 Thanks, the link thing is good to know, I thought it was only blocked for sites outside of youtube.
After rewatching the video, I think I see your point, the crux of it is I seem to have the opposite of your issue. Where you're forced to sit 40" away, I'm actually forced to sit close, at around 20" with my set up. In my case, the monitor engulfs my whole vision and the distortions on the sides remain outside the focus of my eyes. Sure enough, when altering the distance on the FOV calculator, I get a different "ideal FOV" value.
My current space is a bit tight but I'll be staying tuned for your full Sim setup
My specs, never going back to overpriced computer monitors again, MSI Raider GE76 12UHS-607 17.3" Gaming Laptop Computer - Blue Intel Core i9 12th Gen 12900HK 1.8GHz Processor; NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB GDDR6; 64GB DDR5-4800 RAM; Dual M2 2TB Solid State Drives.Driving a LG 50UQ7570PUJ, and LG50UQ7070ZUE @ 4k 3724x2094. Everything on ultra,30 FPS locked with PMDG, Fenix and 234 payware airports...
This is just plain wrong. I’m running 57” 32x9 8k 1000R curve and it is absolutely incredible and significantly more immersive than 16x9. Plus in DCS it gives you a significant advantage with situational awareness. Sitting at 24” from center you get awesome peripheral view and no distortion
I maybe not wrong at 34 @21:9.. But at 57 and 32:9 sitting 24inchs back. I'll give you that one LOL.. that monitor however is a little out of the range of most people's budget, as well as the computer it needs to run it. Sounds fun however 😁
I have an ultrawide, 55 inch gaming TV and 3 VR hearltsets... I use VR the most by far, then the 55 Inch tv and i rarely use the ultrawide...
From what I've read 55inch is the perfect size. The pixel spacing is right where it should be and it gives you a much more real feel. Above 55 the pixel space becomes to much and you start to loose quality. I'd love to try VR, I think it would be great for flying helicopters. Thanks for watching.
get a new 4k 55inch 120hz and the lesser quality problem is solved. that would probably be the way to go for me, even if you have to turn it down to 1440p for better performance.
Since the video was made, I've upgraded to a 43-inch 4k. World of difference..
Thanks for watching.
Cheers....That's the push i needed to get bigger screen
Youll love it. Upgraded to a 4k TV from a black Friday sale. Looks amazing.. video on it coming soon.
Great channel! Seems we have a lot in common...😂
You zoom out and move the seating position forward. Guide is nonsense.
Update your drivers regularly. Trust me. He is 100% wrong on this. Oh wait, AMD ? lol
Never mind. I meant for nvidia updates are great, AMD its a crap shoot.
Yes good old AMD/ATI 🤣🤣🤣... I'm fighting with my home office computer and AMD drivers trying to get a clean image because of a new driver.
VR
21:9 Ultrawide is the way to go
Ultrawide for sure. Once I went to one, I wont go back.
Oh no, Star Bores fan😮....lol
LOL... only the orgnials.. But I did like Solo
Are you on smack?
I take it you didn't watch the whole video or don't understand the concept of creating a realistic 1:1 view within a sim when building realistic to scale hardware. But thanks for the comment anyways, it helps the algorithm either way 😎👍
Hi! In 22:23 there is like a Garmin 3000/5000 fms, did you assigned the zoom in-out button on it? If so, how did you do it? Thank you!
You would be correct. It's a Garmin GTC550 touch screen interface for the G2000/30000. Can be rotated 90° and used as a GTN750 as well. Not setup for controlling the screen zoom but could easily be done using Mobi-Flight.
Here's the built video, working on a better version for my Glass GA panel
ua-cam.com/video/du6pWPi1SV4/v-deo.html
@@thesimproject73 Thank you so much!