Regarding keeping your heels on the floor and raising your feet to press the brakes … I learned this the hard way as a new aircraft owner last year, when we had to replace one of the tires after it was shaved down on one side during a crosswind landing. Great video as always.
Excellent report! Still waiting on Charlie to replace old CH unit. Oh byway, thanks for getting me started in VR, you were correct, I’ll never go back to 2D! Thanks!!
Great video Russ. Sweet Xwind landing! I’ve had the Thrustmaster TPRs for 5 yrs and they have served me well. They retailed a little less then and I was lucky and found a “like new” set on Amazon warehouse for under $450. The “fire hydrant” is not an issue. When they’re out of sight, you have no idea that is between the pedals. I love that the TPRs are the only pedals I’ve seen that actually look and feel like the pedals that spent thousands of hours under our feet! Keep up the great work!
Awesome video. I've rocked my TFlight pedals for a few years now and have a few winwing products already. Was just looking around reviews to seal the deal on getting them for myself. Thanks for all the testing and information!
@@soufianebef_91 they are quite old by TV standards now but were 4K Vizio ... expensive then but cheap for better TVs now, Did you see this video I did a while back: ua-cam.com/video/qDRTaAYQ3uU/v-deo.htmlsi=6aSt-ITABWxDml-D
A great review, employing your usual logical and realistic requirements. For a start you have looked at virtually every option to arrive at your decision whereas a lot of reviewers have only every had or looked into one device and are therefore biased. I have a set of MFG Crosswinds with a damper and universal combat pedals. These provide excellent heel-on-ground comfort (which I use mainly for helicopter flying) and the ability to virtually eliminate a centre detent. From what I can see, these are comparable in virtually every way to your WinWings and it sounds like you are going to be every bit as happy as I have been. Always great to see a real pilot flying a circuit. It is something fundemental that is lacking from most other UA-cam content, and what makes you uniquely authorititive.
I just dropped the coins for the Thrustmaster TPR pedals. I use my sim for flight training, the TFRP pedals I was using have noticable creep. While I hated paying the price, I have to admit, the TPR peddals are in a completely different league! I thought about the WinWings, but the thought of having to send them back to China for a return or repair deterred me more than the price of the TPRs. With shipping, the cost difference wasn't all that much.
I have a Winwing F16 throttle and Joystick and really like them. Was surprised at your shipping comment so I jumped on their website and put some rudder pedals in my cart and went to checkout to see the shipping cost and it said free shipping. So not sure if that is just a current deal or if they changed something. But fore me right now there is no shipping cost to Idaho.
Yeah I purchased June27th but I feel a bit ripped off now. The actual shipping was $134 not $160 as stated on the video but still I am glad that cost is no longer an issue. It looked to me like the US price was $345 but still way better than my all in price.
@@rbarlow I think youmisplaced your order on global site whice provides sure instant start of delivery from factory in China but you should have changed the site to US front end and order from there on back order which probably takes the same time but usually without delivery fees...
Thanks for this. I've been waiting for the Charlies for a long time. Actually pre-ordered and paid for them. Had to go through my CC company at the end of the protest period and got my money back. These look interesting.
These Rudder pedals are available on the Continental United States Winwing store with free shipping right now. I'm waiting for the Ursa Minor Space Hosas ETA Sept 4th.
@@rbarlow winwing needs to adjust their site. it defaults to 'global shipping' even if you are in the US. They have had a US warehouse since early this year.
Thanks for the great vid Russ... btw, the Turtle Beach has changeable pedals. The one you show is the airliner style, where yes, your heals are off the ground. However, they have a GA style where your heals stay on the ground.
@@rbarlowThey sell the one unit, but it has a lever to convert it from airliner to GA and pedals to match. It is really nice if you want to convert between the two, or just try it out. The TB pedals are a great deal, and even comes with a different tension spring if you like it tighter or looser.
I hope to God they refund this man's high shipping charge ($160? I mean, the right thing to do is refund him that amount, after all, he's reviewing the product and giving it a ton of attention)....and it's a positive review too and Russ knows what he's doing obviously)
I wanted to add Charlies to my Alpha & Bravo but just didn't feel like their was hope of them coming out anytime soon (this was back when they were first announced and then it didn't seem like production was progressing). The recent information coming out of the two parties makes anything Honeycomb very confusing now. I went with Virpil rudders pedals and glad I did. Not cheap (and had to wait a while) but well worth the price. WinWIng seems like they are really going all in on the commercial flight sim world (I know they like Virpil have plenty of military sim hardware offerings).
I’m going to pull the trigger on the virtual fly Ruddos in November when the Black Friday sale comes about. I know they’re a lot of money, but my dad always said by the best it’ll last forever and you’ll never be disappointed. I also have the TQ6 and love it
I have a full Winwing cockpit set up with two sets of Throttles and HOTAS' plus the Legend MIP and I have never paid shipping charges like what you mentioned. I'm not sure where you live but Winwing has warehouses on each coast in the US now so shipping charges are minimal. I'm in California and usually get my orders within 3 to 5 days.
Russ, the turtle beach rudder pedals work as you wanted. They have two different combinations in the pack, for airliners as you showed in the video, but also you can change out the pedals so they are more like the winwing for GA aircraft. The price you paid for shipping for the winwing pedals was because you chose the global shipping option. You have quick delivery, but if you had picked the USA option then shipping would be free, the difference being the waiting time. I pre-order the EFIS form the UK, and it says 45 days, that includes shipping and duty, if I had picked global shipping then about 8 days, but it does not include shipping and duty. For us in the UK the duty is a killer as you can only import goods to the value of £130 or less with getting hit by huge import duty, if is above £130
I replaced a set of Virpil Ace Combat pedals with these from Winwing since the rest of my setup is Winwing. My only gripe is for soem reason no matter how I calibrate, they are difficult to use during takeoff. ive played with the settings but they seem to track slightly differrent, but otherwise theyre amazing. I lock them into tank mode to control the leg movement in mechwarrior5 and the flight stick for the torso and its also pretty good.
I have never flown a real aircraft where the rudder pedals had your entire foot on the pedal. I could not have a set of rudder pedals like that. The TM TPRs have been great. I bought them when they first came out, and they continue to soldier on for me. I do like the WW products though. Thanks for the review!
As always - a great review. Still I would greatly appreciate if you would have not only briefly pointed out the existing pedal options of the Milan Flight Gear Crosswind rudder pedals (i.e. allowing to have your heels in the correct position) as they also have an advanced damper option to be built in - all at a quite reasonable pricetag as well (approx. 300 Euros plus another 46 Euros for the damper). IMO they are quite sturdy working fine.
They do look nice. I didn't do any renewed Crosswind research before purchasing the Winwing unit. Nice to see several affordable good options out there now.
Thank you for your reply. In hindsight maybe my spontaneous first comment has been kind of an overreaction - especially as a longtime user of the crosswind pedals ;-). They are great! Still you‘re totally right in pointing out that additional/several alternatives exist. That‘s highly appreciated!
@@rbarlow Ah, I was just coming here to say the same thing. I bought the TB pedals to replace my old CH pedals, which gave me 20 years of good service. One of the things I really like about the TB pedals is being able to put them into GA mode and keep my heels on the ground. I've fly exclusively in GA so haven't tried the "airliner" configuration. *I* wouldn't consider them a "budget" option at $300 (I got them on sale at $270), but I guess relative to the Ruddo's and the TPRs maybe they qualify! I've been quite happy with my purchase. I too own the Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, so was paying attention to the Charlies. I'm glad I didn't wait. Thanks as always for your thorough reviews and thoughtful commentary.
Thanks, if I recall correctly real rudder peddles I have flown are much simpler. Cable actuated to the rudder and used to hang off a bar/rod to retain simplicity. Tomahawk, Piper 140, K13 may have been a pivotal setup, C172, Cardinal RG…..I just don’t recall them being so complicated? Laurie. NZ. 😊
A really good review Russ! I have heard of the company but didn’t know that they had rudder pedals. For now though I’m going to stick with my MFG Crosswinds.
@@rbarlow The ones I use came from the Open F18 project, so they are replicas of an F18 pedal. Not sure if there are others, but the pedals simply bolt on so it's easy to mess with them.
Great review. One thing about the Turtle Beach pedals: the pedals can be configured to be resemble 172 pedals. Quite easily, actually. The TB pedals aren't great, but still a good value for the price, and definitely better than my Logitech pedals.
In my opinion, the TB pedals are great for the money. The only issue I have with them is the soft braking. I'm looking for a way to increase the resistance or mod some other way if I can.
@@billwells7464 I agree, and agree about the brake springs being weak. Really hard to get smooth braking. I'm surprised they aren't more popular because the price is good for the build quality -- much better than Logitech for only $100 more.
@@spinb I have an idea to add some tension. If it work to my satisfaction, I'll try to find this post to let you know what I did. No point in putting the cart before the horse.
@@spinb I added a couple of 5mm x 5cm (2") bungee cords, looped around the riser and hooked into the slots on the front of the pedal joint. That added enough resistance to make the brakes just heavy enough but not too stiff. Smooth, too. I also tried 10cm (4") but they were just a bit too light.
@@donaldatempleton no that s correct. I somehow ordered from the global site and they didn’t tell me that was a dumb idea. I am stupid. Good for you they are working great
I use the Brunner DCL pedals…..expensive but as I use the sim for IFR training I wanted authentic dead foot dead engine feel with asymmetric flight in simulated IMC. There are more and more DCL controls coming out and I’m sure the price will go down for DCL pedals once competition ramps up……
Yes but I actually like the winwing better. My Charlie oder was about $405 inclusive shipping. The Orion Winwing rudder shipping was actually less than I said.... by mistake. The shipping was $134 not $160 so total cost(no duty charged) was $328 +134 = $ 462 . I think the Winwing are more than worth the $57 dollars extra. Just MHO
I already got mine. They were delivered this week, but I developed buyer's remorse because of the uncertain future of the company and will probably sell them on ebay, as opposed to paying shipping costs back to AZ.
The pedals look similar like the F16, but not the action. I hope they will provide load cell kits in the future. That would turn Winwing into a legendary state.
@@ralph_f16simulator yes not sure why more haven’t used load cells since in some ways they seem mechanically simpler. I wonder if they might not have the long service lifetime like a Hall effect sensor
Was wondering if you knew if these would fit on the dof reality motion platforms size-wise and weight-wise? I have the H2 platform Thank you for any help
I have the TPR pedals and really like them. I put the dampers on mine and loosened the return springs all the way and they feel really good, especially with helicopters. I agree that I prefer my heals on the floor and operate the pedals with the balls of my feet and lift my feet to operate the brakes. The fire hydrant comment was funny but In my setup, permanently mounted I don't even notice it. But if you do need to move them you better eat your wheaties. 😮
Great review. I appreciate your thoughts on available pedals. There does appear to be a manual on the website where you order the pedals. There is a separate manual for the damper.
Yes but just a sheet directing me there would be nice. I think they had a trademark infringement using Skywalker as the name and that’s why the name is Orion now. I got Skywalker (old) stock so maybe they removed the branded printed instructions?
@@rbarlow I did the same thing when I ordered my ICP, shipping for that was only like 30 but still money I didnt need to spend. You would think it would pick the location closeset to you.
@@bddanford yes or at least tell you that you might be able to order in a different store. With IP tracking they can find your location and direct you automatically to the correct store. I should have read the fine print.
Hello Russ, thank you for the insightful video! Just wondering if you could share your thoughts about which flight sim software you are able to get the most realizm out of, in terms of their flight dynamics. Have you tried doing any tailwheel flying in MSFS or Xplane and if so which one did you find better? Thanks
On the VR subject, I will say I own every single one of the high priced headsets, in fact I own nearly every VR HMD made since the Oculus DK1 and you know what I fly with 99% of the time? Yep, the Quest 3 over Virtual Desktop. It is just such a perfect sweet spot of comfort, quality, and ease of use. Russ is 100% right. You don't need to spend a ton of money on a high end HMD. A Q3 will do you fine. That said, if you don't have the BEEFY system to back it up you will not have a good VR experience, so I think overall VR is still a pricy route for some.
@@rbarlow Yeah over the years as a VR evangelist I've learned that one of the fastest ways to turn someone AWAY from VR is put them in a bad experience. If you don't have a strong machine then you need to dial things down, but no one ever wants to do that so they try to keep everything near max and suffer the bad performance, then claim VR sucks and makes them feel bad. Personally I'm running a AMD 7950X3D with an RTX 4090 and 128gb of ram which is pretty darned high end, and even then I just sit barely at the acceptable framerate with everything set to max or near max quality. But I built that machine SPECIFICALLY for high end VR simming.
Hey Russ. I wonder if you can help or know possible resources. What would be a good rudder system for someone like me who has only one leg (full mobility though). I've also been trying to find information on control aids for real planes as well.
@@jaanikaapa6925 well you could use a joystick with a twist axis for yaw. You could also adapt one of the pedals with a loop so you could pull with your leg. I know a guy who has an FAA waiver to fly with only one leg but he has a prosthesis from below the knee. Good luck and I would be interested to hear what You work out.
It's really strange that shipping cost. In Europe shows as zero. Are you sure you have ordered them from U.S. side of the winwing store? You can change the site in two ways... one is just the address and the other changes the store between Global... which is what you ordered from probably at huge costs for delivery... US, Canada, China, Eu, Australia which are more local and will deliver from their own warehouses when in stock but at no or low delivery costs.
Yes you are correct. I somehow ordered from the global store and not flagged based on my US address. I am an idiot. Shipping is free to US if ordered from the correct store. Duh.
These are great for helicopters, but you need to make sure you add the damper when ordering, because the pedals are too loose without the return spring if you don’t have the damper.
I have both the Virpil ACE interceptor , and Winwing sky walkers, hands down Virpil is way better. been flight simming a bit between my airline job, these pedals fell nothing like the real thing. They are just that sim pedals. I got the pedals when they first came out and shipping was no where close to 160 to the US. I would never pay that for shipping , ever..
@@jebb125 never have tried any Virpil products but most comments about them are very positive. They may be better but I don’t agree the Winwing Orion pedals feel nothing like the real thing. Of course I don’t know what “real thing” aircraft you are comparing them to. As for the shipping charge see my sequel video WinWing FREE SHIPPING.....I'm an idiot ua-cam.com/video/tSMBAiSvy20/v-deo.html Thanks for your input. I will try to check out the Virpil rudder pedals based on your recommendation.
@@jebb125 I don't see how the control forces of any Non-FFB rudder pedals could simulate both a Cessna 152 and a B767 control forces... or is there some other issue you are talking about? Just curious. Thanks.
You don't have to use the extensions on the Saitek pedals. I use the pedals without those "cups" and they work (in that way) just fine. THAT being said, like their yoke, they don't move smoothly because they move in small jerky, quantum segments instead linearly. Braking I find I have to modulate the brakes but I make it work- just makes me a more adaptable pilot right?! None the less, this is just a bad design and for that reason is why I am looking for better pedals. Professional pilot myself; and I started with the Saiteks- they are "good enough" but what I really dislike is the angle of them- NO Pedal in any airplane I have ever flown are low angled like that- they're all much more upright like the WinWing pedals. I have the stick and throttle for the F-16 from WinWing and must say, I AM IMPRESSED with their products! Good balance between feel, quality, and value.
So why don't you design and build an American made rudder pedal system that would be the closest to a real world rudder pedal? Clearly what's offered sucks and I'm tired of buying Chinese products when we can make these things ourselves. Maybe get a Patreon going and let people invest in the endeavor because I'm sure there are plenty of Sim Pilots that would buy into a project like this. Just sayin is all :)
Thank you for enriching a communist country by purchasing these. The Thrustmaster TPR's are expensive, but oh boy, you definitely get what you pay for! Pro tip: If you place the TPR's on a carpeted floor, you will find that they slip all over the place. One solution I found was to attach the hook portion of Velcro to the bottom of the TPR's. Make sure you get their placement right the first time, since it can be difficult to reposition.
I have a feeling if you did an inventory of everything you own a large percentage is made in China. RealSimGear, Honeycomb, Thrustmaster, ect are also largely sourced from China. I agree made in the USA would be nice in a perfect world.
Hey russ any chance you pick a ffb joystick in the likes of the vpforce rhino or the ffbbeast and review the phantom with the force feedback in DCS? Would be awesome since you flew that plane.
@@evaz9606 I am pretty busy keeping up with XP12 and MSFS. When I was helping out at Sim Innovations Air Manager didn’t support DCS so I never really got proficient in using it. Definitely on my ToDo list.
Got this from WinWing shipped to US for free shipping today. $345.00 total. (No tax or shipping charged). Thanks for the good review!
Regarding keeping your heels on the floor and raising your feet to press the brakes … I learned this the hard way as a new aircraft owner last year, when we had to replace one of the tires after it was shaved down on one side during a crosswind landing. Great video as always.
Excellent report! Still waiting on Charlie to replace old CH unit. Oh byway, thanks for getting me started in VR, you were correct, I’ll never go back to 2D! Thanks!!
Great video Russ. Sweet Xwind landing! I’ve had the Thrustmaster TPRs for 5 yrs and they have served me well. They retailed a little less then and I was lucky and found a “like new” set on Amazon warehouse for under $450. The “fire hydrant” is not an issue. When they’re out of sight, you have no idea that is between the pedals. I love that the TPRs are the only pedals I’ve seen that actually look and feel like the pedals that spent thousands of hours under our feet! Keep up the great work!
The fire hydrant was attempted humor…at $450 you got a deal! The TPRs are well made
@@rbarlow Oh, I certainly laughed! But thought you were serious about not wanting that in your sim. I’ve been known to take things too literally 🙃
@@wrap239 I have the OV-10 Air Mgr gauges on my ToDo list but still a ways down below some of my wife's requests.
@@rbarlow Understood.
Awesome video. I've rocked my TFlight pedals for a few years now and have a few winwing products already. Was just looking around reviews to seal the deal on getting them for myself. Thanks for all the testing and information!
"I didn´t want that fire hydrant sitting between my feet" LOL !!!! Thanks a lot for the excellent videos and the good laugh Russ. Cheers !!
Glad you enjoyed it
@@rbarlowcould you please tell me witch TV Brands you use, Thank you
@@soufianebef_91 they are quite old by TV standards now but were 4K Vizio ... expensive then but cheap for better TVs now, Did you see this video I did a while back: ua-cam.com/video/qDRTaAYQ3uU/v-deo.htmlsi=6aSt-ITABWxDml-D
@@rbarlow Thank you I just saw it, Im trying build a Sim to practice and develop my scan, Im doing my PPL, Thanks for sharing🙏
Thanks for a great video, im getting started and going to get these, as a noob to flight sim I am hooked on winwing. for the price and quality..
A great review, employing your usual logical and realistic requirements. For a start you have looked at virtually every option to arrive at your decision whereas a lot of reviewers have only every had or looked into one device and are therefore biased.
I have a set of MFG Crosswinds with a damper and universal combat pedals. These provide excellent heel-on-ground comfort (which I use mainly for helicopter flying) and the ability to virtually eliminate a centre detent.
From what I can see, these are comparable in virtually every way to your WinWings and it sounds like you are going to be every bit as happy as I have been.
Always great to see a real pilot flying a circuit. It is something fundemental that is lacking from most other UA-cam content, and what makes you uniquely authorititive.
I should have done more current research on crosswind. The various pedal options are nice. Thanks for your informed input.
The Ursa Minor flight stick from Winwing is awesome.
I just dropped the coins for the Thrustmaster TPR pedals. I use my sim for flight training, the TFRP pedals I was using have noticable creep. While I hated paying the price, I have to admit, the TPR peddals are in a completely different league! I thought about the WinWings, but the thought of having to send them back to China for a return or repair deterred me more than the price of the TPRs. With shipping, the cost difference wasn't all that much.
Excellent review, many thanks Russ. Something else for my little list to Santa this next Christmas!
Tell your significant other sorry from me😀
@@rbarlow Will do, she has yet to get over the VR Headset being further up on Santa's little list!
tx so much for the thoughts, Beautiful landings man.
I have a Winwing F16 throttle and Joystick and really like them. Was surprised at your shipping comment so I jumped on their website and put some rudder pedals in my cart and went to checkout to see the shipping cost and it said free shipping. So not sure if that is just a current deal or if they changed something. But fore me right now there is no shipping cost to Idaho.
Yeah I purchased June27th but I feel a bit ripped off now. The actual shipping was $134 not $160 as stated on the video but still I am glad that cost is no longer an issue. It looked to me like the US price was $345 but still way better than my all in price.
@@rbarlow I think youmisplaced your order on global site whice provides sure instant start of delivery from factory in China but you should have changed the site to US front end and order from there on back order which probably takes the same time but usually without delivery fees...
@@zaeluYup I just hopped on and made sure to search for the US store and got free shipping.
@@DefaultProphet I can confirm this indeed worked, total was $345.13. Thanks Russ for the recommendation.
Thanks for this. I've been waiting for the Charlies for a long time. Actually pre-ordered and paid for them. Had to go through my CC company at the end of the protest period and got my money back. These look interesting.
Yes and I made an error. My shipping was actually $134 not sure why I thought $160 and there was no import duty
These Rudder pedals are available on the Continental United States Winwing store with free shipping right now. I'm waiting for the Ursa Minor Space Hosas ETA Sept 4th.
@@arielis78 I now feel a bit ripped off
@@rbarlow winwing needs to adjust their site. it defaults to 'global shipping' even if you are in the US. They have had a US warehouse since early this year.
Thanks for the great vid Russ... btw, the Turtle Beach has changeable pedals. The one you show is the airliner style, where yes, your heals are off the ground. However, they have a GA style where your heals stay on the ground.
I'll check it out. I didn't like the TB Yoke/Trottle Quadrant (but it has a awesome trim wheel) so I kind of forgot about them.
@@rbarlowThey sell the one unit, but it has a lever to convert it from airliner to GA and pedals to match. It is really nice if you want to convert between the two, or just try it out. The TB pedals are a great deal, and even comes with a different tension spring if you like it tighter or looser.
I hope to God they refund this man's high shipping charge ($160? I mean, the right thing to do is refund him that amount, after all, he's reviewing the product and giving it a ton of attention)....and it's a positive review too and Russ knows what he's doing obviously)
I wanted to add Charlies to my Alpha & Bravo but just didn't feel like their was hope of them coming out anytime soon (this was back when they were first announced and then it didn't seem like production was progressing). The recent information coming out of the two parties makes anything Honeycomb very confusing now. I went with Virpil rudders pedals and glad I did. Not cheap (and had to wait a while) but well worth the price. WinWIng seems like they are really going all in on the commercial flight sim world (I know they like Virpil have plenty of military sim hardware offerings).
I’m going to pull the trigger on the virtual fly Ruddos in November when the Black Friday sale comes about. I know they’re a lot of money, but my dad always said by the best it’ll last forever and you’ll never be disappointed.
I also have the TQ6 and love it
I'm really holding out because I think we're about to see an explosion of force feedback rudders start showing up in the next couple years.
Ruddo is commercial quality equipment… the brakes are unique and the best
I have a full Winwing cockpit set up with two sets of Throttles and HOTAS' plus the Legend MIP and I have never paid shipping charges like what you mentioned. I'm not sure where you live but Winwing has warehouses on each coast in the US now so shipping charges are minimal. I'm in California and usually get my orders within 3 to 5 days.
Thanks
The turtle beach pedals have a GA pedal configuration included in box
Russ, the turtle beach rudder pedals work as you wanted. They have two different combinations in the pack, for airliners as you showed in the video, but also you can change out the pedals so they are more like the winwing for GA aircraft. The price you paid for shipping for the winwing pedals was because you chose the global shipping option. You have quick delivery, but if you had picked the USA option then shipping would be free, the difference being the waiting time. I pre-order the EFIS form the UK, and it says 45 days, that includes shipping and duty, if I had picked global shipping then about 8 days, but it does not include shipping and duty. For us in the UK the duty is a killer as you can only import goods to the value of £130 or less with getting hit by huge import duty, if is above £130
I replaced a set of Virpil Ace Combat pedals with these from Winwing since the rest of my setup is Winwing. My only gripe is for soem reason no matter how I calibrate, they are difficult to use during takeoff. ive played with the settings but they seem to track slightly differrent, but otherwise theyre amazing. I lock them into tank mode to control the leg movement in mechwarrior5 and the flight stick for the torso and its also pretty good.
I have never flown a real aircraft where the rudder pedals had your entire foot on the pedal. I could not have a set of rudder pedals like that. The TM TPRs have been great. I bought them when they first came out, and they continue to soldier on for me. I do like the WW products though. Thanks for the review!
Yes and the TPR were much less when the started out so you probably got a great deal
@@rbarlow Yes, it's true. They have gone up in price. I guess this is at least one instance where being an early adopter served me well. : )
As always - a great review. Still I would greatly appreciate if you would have not only briefly pointed out the existing pedal options of the Milan Flight Gear Crosswind rudder pedals (i.e. allowing to have your heels in the correct position) as they also have an advanced damper option to be built in - all at a quite reasonable pricetag as well (approx. 300 Euros plus another 46 Euros for the damper). IMO they are quite sturdy working fine.
They do look nice. I didn't do any renewed Crosswind research before purchasing the Winwing unit. Nice to see several affordable good options out there now.
Thank you for your reply. In hindsight maybe my spontaneous first comment has been kind of an overreaction - especially as a longtime user of the crosswind pedals ;-). They are great! Still you‘re totally right in pointing out that additional/several alternatives exist. That‘s highly appreciated!
The turtle beach velocity pedals have a secondary pedal.opyion that removes the heel cups and does exactly what you want.
Great… a good budget option then
@@rbarlow Ah, I was just coming here to say the same thing. I bought the TB pedals to replace my old CH pedals, which gave me 20 years of good service. One of the things I really like about the TB pedals is being able to put them into GA mode and keep my heels on the ground. I've fly exclusively in GA so haven't tried the "airliner" configuration.
*I* wouldn't consider them a "budget" option at $300 (I got them on sale at $270), but I guess relative to the Ruddo's and the TPRs maybe they qualify! I've been quite happy with my purchase.
I too own the Honeycomb Alpha & Bravo, so was paying attention to the Charlies. I'm glad I didn't wait.
Thanks as always for your thorough reviews and thoughtful commentary.
I heard Winwing has developed a MCDU for Airbus 320. Can you do a review once it's available for purchase?
Thanks, if I recall correctly real rudder peddles I have flown are much simpler. Cable actuated to the rudder and used to hang off a bar/rod to retain simplicity. Tomahawk, Piper 140, K13 may have been a pivotal setup, C172, Cardinal RG…..I just don’t recall them being so complicated? Laurie. NZ. 😊
Yes either cables or pushrods but simulating that is almost harder than the real thing.
A really good review Russ! I have heard of the company but didn’t know that they had rudder pedals. For now though I’m going to stick with my MFG Crosswinds.
@@blackjack6259 good choice. At FSExpo Winwing had really inexpensive sim gear but maybe the shipping g costs are how the jack up the final price?
I actually 3d printed custom pedals for the MFG and I love it. That said I'm looking to replace them once we have some good FF rudders.
That would be cool! Are the files available at Thingiverse or somewhere?
@@rbarlow The ones I use came from the Open F18 project, so they are replicas of an F18 pedal. Not sure if there are others, but the pedals simply bolt on so it's easy to mess with them.
Great review.
One thing about the Turtle Beach pedals: the pedals can be configured to be resemble 172 pedals. Quite easily, actually. The TB pedals aren't great, but still a good value for the price, and definitely better than my Logitech pedals.
In my opinion, the TB pedals are great for the money. The only issue I have with them is the soft braking. I'm looking for a way to increase the resistance or mod some other way if I can.
@@billwells7464 I agree, and agree about the brake springs being weak. Really hard to get smooth braking. I'm surprised they aren't more popular because the price is good for the build quality -- much better than Logitech for only $100 more.
@@spinb I have an idea to add some tension. If it work to my satisfaction, I'll try to find this post to let you know what I did. No point in putting the cart before the horse.
@@billwells7464 Good luck!
@@spinb I added a couple of 5mm x 5cm (2") bungee cords, looped around the riser and hooked into the slots on the front of the pedal joint. That added enough resistance to make the brakes just heavy enough but not too stiff. Smooth, too. I also tried 10cm (4") but they were just a bit too light.
I just ordered it off their site and was a bit shocked to see they gave me free shipping to the US. We will see if they come back and charge me.
@@donaldatempleton no that s correct. I somehow ordered from the global site and they didn’t tell me that was a dumb idea. I am stupid. Good for you they are working great
Yeah I've sent just under $1500 with Winwing, never paid for shipping or import fees/taxes in the US.
I use the Brunner DCL pedals…..expensive but as I use the sim for IFR training I wanted authentic dead foot dead engine feel with asymmetric flight in simulated IMC. There are more and more DCL controls coming out and I’m sure the price will go down for DCL pedals once competition ramps up……
Yes perhaps they are preemptively creating more affordable versions to compete against Flitesim.com FFB rudders that have been promised
I am also tired of waiting but according to the latest update Honeycomb plan to ship preorders by the end of August
Keyword "plan", but I hope the best for your order. I canceled and successfully charged back my Charlie pre-order months ago.
Yes but I actually like the winwing better. My Charlie oder was about $405 inclusive shipping. The Orion Winwing rudder shipping was actually less than I said.... by mistake. The shipping was $134 not $160 so total cost(no duty charged) was $328 +134 = $ 462 . I think the Winwing are more than worth the $57 dollars extra. Just MHO
I already got mine. They were delivered this week, but I developed buyer's remorse because of the uncertain future of the company and will probably sell them on ebay, as opposed to paying shipping costs back to AZ.
FWIW I have the turtle beach pedals and they are made to convert into GA style pedals. I like them, but I also haven't used anything else.
Thanks I will look at them again.
Thanks for the great review!
The pedals look similar like the F16, but not the action. I hope they will provide load cell kits in the future. That would turn Winwing into a legendary state.
@@ralph_f16simulator yes not sure why more haven’t used load cells since in some ways they seem mechanically simpler. I wonder if they might not have the long service lifetime like a Hall effect sensor
Was wondering if you knew if these would fit on the dof reality motion platforms size-wise and weight-wise? I have the H2 platform Thank you for any help
I have the TPR pedals and really like them. I put the dampers on mine and loosened the return springs all the way and they feel really good, especially with helicopters. I agree that I prefer my heals on the floor and operate the pedals with the balls of my feet and lift my feet to operate the brakes.
The fire hydrant comment was funny but In my setup, permanently mounted I don't even notice it. But if you do need to move them you better eat your wheaties. 😮
TPR pedals are impressively built … good choice
I have the TPR’s as well, removed the springs and added a damper too. Great for helicopters as you say.
Great review. I appreciate your thoughts on available pedals. There does appear to be a manual on the website where you order the pedals. There is a separate manual for the damper.
Yes but just a sheet directing me there would be nice. I think they had a trademark infringement using Skywalker as the name and that’s why the name is Orion now. I got Skywalker (old) stock so maybe they removed the branded printed instructions?
I have those SAITEK Pro peddles. They get crap inside them.
My old Saitek combat rudders too in the slot on top .. Mine have held up for many years with occasional cleaning
I believe you meant to say slip stream and not P factor, although P factor does plays a roll in tail wheel airplanes.
I order all my WinWing stuff from the US warehouse, free shipping and I get it in 2-3 days. And all of the maunals are online.
Guess I picked the wrong warehouse. Why would that be possible? You'd think they would warn you as they make nothing on the FedEx charges.
@@rbarlow I did the same thing when I ordered my ICP, shipping for that was only like 30 but still money I didnt need to spend. You would think it would pick the location closeset to you.
@@bddanford yes or at least tell you that you might be able to order in a different store. With IP tracking they can find your location and direct you automatically to the correct store. I should have read the fine print.
Why didn’t you get the virpil ace rudder pedals
Hello Russ, thank you for the insightful video! Just wondering if you could share your thoughts about which flight sim software you are able to get the most realizm out of, in terms of their flight dynamics. Have you tried doing any tailwheel flying in MSFS or Xplane and if so which one did you find better? Thanks
Turtle Beach would fit Xbox , but what other pedals would work with it ?
I have a real pfd and mfd-g1000 nxi Cessna cockpit , how would you go about finding the buttons if you can't see them using a 3D goggles .??
I use the Turtle Beach Rudders and they feel pretty close to the ones I use in my real plane.
Perfect! What are you flying?
@@rbarlow Sling 2 LSA
On the VR subject, I will say I own every single one of the high priced headsets, in fact I own nearly every VR HMD made since the Oculus DK1 and you know what I fly with 99% of the time? Yep, the Quest 3 over Virtual Desktop. It is just such a perfect sweet spot of comfort, quality, and ease of use. Russ is 100% right. You don't need to spend a ton of money on a high end HMD. A Q3 will do you fine.
That said, if you don't have the BEEFY system to back it up you will not have a good VR experience, so I think overall VR is still a pricy route for some.
True… it is a hidden cost that I failed to to mention… may not be obvious… I started with Oculus CV1 so it seems a given to long term VR users
@@rbarlow Yeah over the years as a VR evangelist I've learned that one of the fastest ways to turn someone AWAY from VR is put them in a bad experience. If you don't have a strong machine then you need to dial things down, but no one ever wants to do that so they try to keep everything near max and suffer the bad performance, then claim VR sucks and makes them feel bad.
Personally I'm running a AMD 7950X3D with an RTX 4090 and 128gb of ram which is pretty darned high end, and even then I just sit barely at the acceptable framerate with everything set to max or near max quality. But I built that machine SPECIFICALLY for high end VR simming.
You do very thorough reviews and I’m very curious why you didn’t compare these to the Ruddos……
The price or Ruddo seems to put it in commercial price range like the FFB options
Hey Russ. I wonder if you can help or know possible resources. What would be a good rudder system for someone like me who has only one leg (full mobility though). I've also been trying to find information on control aids for real planes as well.
@@jaanikaapa6925 well you could use a joystick with a twist axis for yaw. You could also adapt one of the pedals with a loop so you could pull with your leg. I know a guy who has an FAA waiver to fly with only one leg but he has a prosthesis from below the knee. Good luck and I would be interested to hear what You work out.
What's better, the QUEST you are using, or the HP G2 VR glasses?
@@dabneyoffermein595 Quest 3 by far!
@@rbarlow thanks so much! Do you get any WiFi lags? I heard wifi-6 / wifi-7 is a must.
What was the final cost? I have the fire hydrant and love them! No assembly required out of the box, all metal, and built like a tank.
I overstated the shipping. It was $134 but the total cost was $462 delivered with no duty charged
What VR goggle r u using ? Thanks.
It's really strange that shipping cost. In Europe shows as zero. Are you sure you have ordered them from U.S. side of the winwing store?
You can change the site in two ways... one is just the address and the other changes the store between Global... which is what you ordered from probably at huge costs for delivery... US, Canada, China, Eu, Australia which are more local and will deliver from their own warehouses when in stock but at no or low delivery costs.
Yes you are correct. I somehow ordered from the global store and not flagged based on my US address. I am an idiot. Shipping is free to US if ordered from the correct store. Duh.
Just found these on Amazon with free shipping
Did you consider the Slaw Device pedals? I heard they are the best.
no new to me. Looks like they are a Polish company. RH Rotor Pedals 454 Euro ( 500 $US) plus $93 shipping). Look pretty good.
Is it compatible with XBOX series X?
With alpha bravo (honeycomb)
No and Yes
Virpil also have great rudder pedals.
Yes I missed that option… I tended to associate them with DCS but it is good kit..
Yes, I have the virpil rudder. Excellent kit. Love it
I use the link cable so no
Russ do you also operate the helicopter? In that case, does any of those pedals work? They shouldn't have a spring to center them, should they?
The spring can be removed if no centering is desired. The damper can still work even without the spring centering.
These are great for helicopters, but you need to make sure you add the damper when ordering, because the pedals are too loose without the return spring if you don’t have the damper.
I have both the Virpil ACE interceptor , and Winwing sky walkers, hands down Virpil is way better. been flight simming a bit between my airline job, these pedals fell nothing like the real thing. They are just that sim pedals. I got the pedals when they first came out and shipping was no where close to 160 to the US. I would never pay that for shipping , ever..
@@jebb125 never have tried any Virpil products but most comments about them are very positive. They may be better but I don’t agree the Winwing Orion pedals feel nothing like the real thing. Of course I don’t know what “real thing” aircraft you are comparing them to. As for the shipping charge see my sequel video WinWing FREE SHIPPING.....I'm an idiot
ua-cam.com/video/tSMBAiSvy20/v-deo.html
Thanks for your input. I will try to check out the Virpil rudder pedals based on your recommendation.
@@rbarlow real thing as any GA or 75/767, AB A330
@@jebb125 I don't see how the control forces of any Non-FFB rudder pedals could simulate both a Cessna 152 and a B767 control forces... or is there some other issue you are talking about? Just curious. Thanks.
You don't have to use the extensions on the Saitek pedals. I use the pedals without those "cups" and they work (in that way) just fine. THAT being said, like their yoke, they don't move smoothly because they move in small jerky, quantum segments instead linearly. Braking I find I have to modulate the brakes but I make it work- just makes me a more adaptable pilot right?! None the less, this is just a bad design and for that reason is why I am looking for better pedals. Professional pilot myself; and I started with the Saiteks- they are "good enough" but what I really dislike is the angle of them- NO Pedal in any airplane I have ever flown are low angled like that- they're all much more upright like the WinWing pedals. I have the stick and throttle for the F-16 from WinWing and must say, I AM IMPRESSED with their products! Good balance between feel, quality, and value.
Which VR Headset do you use in this video?
Quest 3
They don't deliver to my country😭
sorry. where are you?
@@rbarlow Norway (I had it at the EU not global)
Yeah, I don’t mess with Chinese stuff. I only like Chinese rice that’s it.
Gonzalez Richard Jones Cynthia Perez Amy
I have the MFG rudder pedals, love them.. WinWing looks like a ripoff of the MFG
Definitely don’t look the same lol.
@@SIMRIG412 looks similar... only need to change 10% to get around copywrite
7:40 nothing wrong its just real. microsoft runs on rails
So why don't you design and build an American made rudder pedal system that would be the closest to a real world rudder pedal? Clearly what's offered sucks and I'm tired of buying Chinese products when we can make these things ourselves. Maybe get a Patreon going and let people invest in the endeavor because I'm sure there are plenty of Sim Pilots that would buy into a project like this. Just sayin is all :)
So, why don't you do it?
Thank you for enriching a communist country by purchasing these. The Thrustmaster TPR's are expensive, but oh boy, you definitely get what you pay for!
Pro tip: If you place the TPR's on a carpeted floor, you will find that they slip all over the place. One solution I found was to attach the hook portion of Velcro to the bottom of the TPR's. Make sure you get their placement right the first time, since it can be difficult to reposition.
Thrustmaster TPR has literally "Made in China" label on the back
I have a feeling if you did an inventory of everything you own a large percentage is made in China. RealSimGear, Honeycomb, Thrustmaster, ect are also largely sourced from China. I agree made in the USA would be nice in a perfect world.
@rbarlow WinWing offer free shipping for US orders, why there was an additional charge ?
Good question. It was over a month ago. Maybe the shipping free is a new deal.
Russ
Hey russ any chance you pick a ffb joystick in the likes of the vpforce rhino or the ffbbeast and review the phantom with the force feedback in DCS? Would be awesome since you flew that plane.
@@evaz9606 I am pretty busy keeping up with XP12 and MSFS. When I was helping out at Sim Innovations Air Manager didn’t support DCS so I never really got proficient in using it. Definitely on my ToDo list.