What Really Happened to King Harrow? - The Dragon Prince Theory
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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2019
- One of the most enduring theories in the Dragon Prince community is that of Harrow's fate. Many believe Viren put his soul into the body of his bird companion, Pip, using Dark Magic. But Season 3 has given us an extra clue to reveal what really happened to King Harrow.
Article from Animation Scoop: www.animationscoop.com/intervi...
Edit: When I originally had the idea for this theory, there was a second article confirming Harrow had died and would not return. Me being me, I didn’t save the link and could t find it again by the time I recorded this video. And of course today, I found it again. This was the second article I originally wanted to quote towards the end of the video, enjoy! www.inverse.com/article/60119...
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While everything you said here makes sense, I still can't shake the feeling there's more going on than we realize?
I'm analyzing this as a writer. Why introduce -- and then reintroduce -- the Soul Fang if it wasn't going to become relevent? Then have Veran ask Harrow TWICE to complete the ritual? This show has shown no aversion to having people die on screen, so why not show Harrow's death, or even body? And why place such emphasis on Veran's interactions with Pip, and then the following escape?
All I'm saying is everything in writing should have a purpose. If not to hint at King Harrow's survival, then what do these scenes mean?
While that is true, I feel like that could have been a very elaborate red herring. The thematic impact of Harrow's death on the series, and especially the entire arc of Callum and Ezran coming to terms with it is too significant to erase with a "sike! He's alive, just as a bird now!" That being said, the soulfang could become important later, maybe switching Aaravos into Viren's body or something similar.
Also, the plot with the soulfang at the beginning I feel was more to illustrate Viren's character than to be an actual plot, if you know what I mean. It immediately establishes a dynamic between Harrow and Viren, and adds a conflict to the first episode that is much more immediate than the looming threat of the moonshadow elves' approach. We learn Harrow and Viren's respective stances on dark magic, catch a glimpse of how Viren rationalizes his use of it, and in the process are given a taste of dark magic's potential. Which is to say, I feel like the soul-swap idea was more of a plot device than a plot point.
It's called Chekov's gun and our ginger friend is clearly unfamiliar with it. All the clues point to there being a soul swamp, but Theory Pop is desperately in denial.
He dead.
JustAnotherGeek already said most points I would say, but I'd add that the Soulfang also serves to illustrate just how 'alien' Xadia is to humans. It's a land full of magic and, judging by the Soulfang, dangerous creatures. Viren describes its diet and habitat, setting us up for Callum and Rayla's journey across the Midnight Desert in season 3. As for Pip, I actually found it odd he didn't come up in season 3 at all. Since the show runners have stated the seasons would be grouped into different arcs, I thought he'd appear before the season ended. He could still appear in season 4 onward, which is likely, but I'm not convinced he's now Harrow.
On a wider point about the writing, there's been gaps in it before. Season 1, Viren is about to have his coronation but is interrupted. Season 3, Opeli tells him only an Orphan may be crowned king.
Totally agree. There's such emotional impact to Harrow's death. The boys both struggle to come to terms with it, Ezran is forced to return to Katolis to become king, and then "Hey guys only kidding I'm alive." Eh. Don't know if I like that.
We can only know for certain if Callum ever uses “Historia Vivintum” on the kings bedroom in future seasons.
He'll either need another Moon Opal, or will need to have connected with the moon Arcanum, but yes, this would be a good use of the spell!
Theory Pop Or he might be able to ask Lujanne to do the spell. It’s also possible that she might be able to give him a Moon Opal, since they’re essentially materialized moon primal energy, which is strongest at the Moon Nexus. Therefore, it’s likely that if they were to form naturally anywhere, it would be there.
I don’t necessarily think he would want to cast the spell though, as he just moved on from Harrow’s death, and watching it play out again would only work to reverse the process by stirring up those negative emotions again.
AlphaWolf098 you make good points but I once the Pip (Likely Harrow) meets up with Ezran, he’ll try to get Callum to use the history spell to reveal evidence of both Viren’s crimes and Pip’s true identity. Evidence that Callum will be happy to see knowing that Harrow survived after all. But that’s only if the Pip is Harrow theory turns out to be true.
Maxs that seems like a bad idea for... Certain... Reasons.
Tea Is Better Than Coffee. Objectively. It’s just a theory. Nothing wrong with liking bad ideas when we don’t know if they’ll happen yet or at all.
All I can say is this...
*FREE MY BOI RUNAAN, HIS HUSBAND NEEDS HIM*
I am 100% on board for operation: Runaan Rescue!
Theory Pop Saving Private Runaan
That is so much better than what I said. Quick, someone edit that movie poster with Tom Hanks!
@@adhdaiden6297 golden! Just like Runaan :')
Ethari really makes me want them to save Runaan. I was okay with Runaan dying, until they introduced Ethari. Now I really want him to be freed and make it home for Ethari's sake.
i don't think runaan's body is dead, i think the coin sucked his body and soul into it, and put him in a sort of pocked dimension(similar to aaravos).I feel like he will either be freed by rayla(when she is freeing her parents)(since it is extremely likely that her parents are kept in a similar coin)or sacrificed by claudia or viren(to free aravos or for power if they are in a tight spot)
Aha, that’s a good theory! The coin acts as it’s own storage space for wayward elves, I like it! I kind of hope Runaan gets freed later on.
I’m just worried that all these dead characters, whose deaths have served to drive character development and plot forward in such big ways, coming back to life suddenly to make everything “ok” again is such a Disney style cop-out. Raayla gets her parents back, Ezran and Callum get Harrow back, Ethari gets Runaan back... it’s just such an eye-roll inducing thought.
@@Matt-bg5wg i also share that fear(i also kind of rolled my eyes when callum juat used moonshadow magic, even though he did not unlock its arcana)
@@chrisgachoka6620 to be fair he didnt have the sky arcana at first either but he had a catalyst to cast it for a while and the moon opal acted as a catalyst for spell
Matt Coombes Worried this could turn into a Dragonball situation where death is a minor inconvenience! But you’re right, the characters have all developed and grown through these losses of loved ones, so an easy “restore” option kind of ruins that. Claudia already revived Viren. One of these deaths has to stick and be permanent for death to have any meaning at all.
Elf: We finally meet, King. I shall slay you now!
"Harrow": *Proceeds to make bird noises*
Elf: Your dark magic won't save you!
XD
The question is, if Viren swapped Harrow's soul with his bird, or even if Harrow was killed in his bedroom, how did the guards that break into that room die? Because when Viren entered the room after everything was said and done, there were no survivors. And later on, Ethari confirmed that no one except Rayla survived that night. Harrow wanted to be left in his room with no guards and refused Viren's plea to use the Soul Fang. So what exactly happened where all the elves who entered that room wound up dead?
Either 1. Harrow fought off all the elves until someone finally killed him (unlikely since Harrow was willing to die to atone for his mistakes) or 2. Something was going on where Viren intervened and actually killed all the elves. I'm leaning towards the latter. It's still unclear what exactly happened in that room, and the show doesn't want us to know what happened, yet.
I think the reason why Zym could remove the binding: the end of Zym's life was what demanded the just assassination of Ezran, so when Zym turns out to be alive he can remove the binding as proof that the assassination is unnecessary
i had always thought of that part as "dragons can naturally overcome any (non-dark) magic", but your angle is far more interesting.
@@hindigente I am more of the opinion that it's sort of the ability to give a pardon. And stuff, undo any sort of magical oath etc...
When I watched the series the first time, I never considered that Harrow was in Pip’s body. I thought the significance was that Pip would find Ezran and tell him all that he witnessed in the room (which is what?...)
Watching the series a second time with a more critical mind, I can see how people would believe the Harrow-is-Pip theory, but I personally agree with the points made in this video. We’ll just have to wait and see!
I can definitely see where the theory Harrow is Pip theory comes from, and why many fans of the show believe it, but I thought this was a viable alternative to it! Thank you for watching.
I think the ribbon only got released because King Harrow's body had died, not his soul.
Maybe. It all depends on exactly how that spell works, but it's not been really explained. We need a spellbook and enchantment guide!
@@TheoryPop Like how even on the website, they say that nobody exactly knows what Star Magic can do.
Ya, but I would like to remind people that every time Veren offered to use magic to save Harrow, he refuses and the stories told by veren about Harows life tells that the use of magic led to loss for him, his love and life. So I don’t he would use it again.
@@gilbertohernandez2409 Veren could have done it to Harrow unwillingly. As we seen Veren is very upset in the bedroom scene. He could have switched them out of anger because Harrow was unwilling to do it. Also Veren enters the room with the snake but leaves without it he didn't just let it out because he could still use it for other dark magic. Veren also doesn't participate in the fight outside of Harrows chambers so he isn't worried about harrow dieing. In later seasons we have a lot of emphasis on being trapped come from Harrow. With his letter to Callum and with the scene in Callum's fever dream where Harrow is chained to his throne. This could very well be foreshadowing that Harrow is trapped in the bird.
Some things that might be come up in season 4:
1. The opening will probably the full reveal of how aaravos got in his mirror.
2. Zubeias story and motivations because it seems that she always wanted that humans and elfs work together.
3. Perhaps there are some half blood human - elfs there. With all those border crossings it is impossible that some humans and elfs didn't ended up in a relationship and didn't had any form of sexuality.
4. More new characters for elfs and humans. There will probably some elfs who will join our heroes and maybe some new good humans too. And new bad guys because viren will probably have a tough start of rebuild his power where he needs help.
All things I would like to see! Especially the full story of Aaravos being sealed away in the mirror.
@@TheoryPop yes. But perhaps zubeia knows something. I mean he was insde their sleeping room so she must know something about him. But i hink her soft feelings for humanity had and will bring her in some trouble with some other arc dragons. Because sol regem definitely will not be happy about the fact that she allows humans to stay and he knows that callum used dark magic. Speaking of callum i think that she gives him 6 teachers of magic in her graditude
@@altithoraxperotorum5133 The biggest thing holding Callum back from using other sources of magic is that he lacks a connection to the other arcana, which is not something that can be taught easily. I think that he'll either try to figure out moon magic next and broaden his abilities because he knows what moon magic can do, or he'll try to expand upon his understanding of sky magic, possibly learning more about how runes work and start learning Draconic and/or elvish so that he can translate things better.
An argument that can be made is that
There is canonically an afterlife in tdp, killing a spirit would be impossible since it just passes on into the next world, while killing a body, therefore eliminating a target from the physical world, perhaps since the spirit is unkillable without the assistance of a soulfang, the binding is removed when a body is killed,
Which leads into my theory, Runaan did indeed kill Harrow, but only his husk, his body, while Viren killed Harrow’s spirit with the soulfang, and Pip was a silent witness to this,
Leading into Ezran learning of how his father actually died, perhaps fueling a quest for revenge.
The afterlife would make "death" in this world the passage of the spirit to the next plane of existence. If Soulfangs can consume a person's spirit, how does that affect the journey to the afterlife? If the soul can't be destroyed, I guess it 'passes' though some kind of digestion process? I don't know if want to think on that too heavily!
Whatever happened to Harrow, Pip is now out in the wild and free. I'm sure he'll meet up with Ezran at some point, and Ezran will learn exactly what happened that night.
Seascraper Draws that would explain Um Callum seeing Harrow in that dream😅
I wish I knew more about the TDP world’s afterlife, *ahem season 4* and I do wanna see an “Ezran’s Revenge” story arc.
Actually the entire theme of TDP is, like A:TLA, about BREAKING THE CYCLE OF WAR. It would be extremely out of character for Ezran to go any further than let his emotions entertain the thought of revenge before finally being talked out of it by his own principles and other people around him.
Depends on what the spirit actually is in TDP. Take a glass and fill it with ocean water. The glass is your body and the water is your spirit. When you die you pour the water back into the ocean, take another glass and fill it. It's possible SOME of the water in it was also in the first cup, but not all of it. So a spirit might not be an eternal soul, but rather a mass of spiritual energy that returns to the source upon death, diffuses and mixes with the rest and gets reused. That could be why souls can exist but also be turned into spell powering energy and used to feed Soul Fangs.
This is extremely interesting but something that really sticks out to me is the scene where Runaan is captured. He stumbles onto the balcony area and falls to his knees, the guards on the balcony already dead. The guards directly outside the king's quarters (including Soren) are still alive and pursue him onto the balcony and capture him, leading me to believe the elves didn't kill those guards. So what happened to them? Why was Viren so adamant that Callum not enter the room? It couldn't have been a safety concern because he has no qualms harming Callum in that instant.
Also note: Soren believes he honestly tried and failed. HOWEVER, every single guard flanking him while apprehending Runaan opted for the Weakest Link Squad. They've got to have a reason.
And here I thought you were just being redundant with this video! Sorry for jumping to conclusions. And I agree one hundred percent with this video. The Moonshadiw elves, out of all of the people of Xadia, know that sometimes there is deeper meaning than appearance alone.
No worries, I appreciate your support for the channel! Moonshadow elves know all about "appearances," Lujanne makes it a point to explain that to Callum, so Harrow's "appearance" of death would be see through.
My thought on the idea of Harrow surviving is that we KNOW the Runaan is still alive in some way, and the available evidence indicated that Rayla's parents are in the same state. Now, its highly unlikely that the writers set that up and they won't bring them back by the end of the series (either in their bodies or as spirits with a final chance to say goodbye to their loved ones). I think bringing back Harrow, too, would just be a too much of a good thing from a story telling point of view.
I agree with you. For the story to carry as much dramatic weight as it is, some of the characters who are “dead” need to actually remain so. Viren actually DID die, and was revived. Death, at some point, has to stick. I also think it would undermine some of the development and character moments we’ve had for both Callum and Ezran. Callum reading that final letter from his dad was heartbreaking, but if Harrow turns up like “turns out I’m not dead, surprise!” I think it would be detrimental to that entire scene and arc for Callum.
@@TheoryPop It would take a considerable amount of weight out of Ezran taking the throne (after dealing with the realization his father is dead and he's the only heir left capable of ruling) and trying to do the right thing like his father did if Harrow is still alive in some way. That said, the Soul Fang and Pip escaping the castle, those things haven't been resolved, and they have to mean something. Especially because they were established the way they were. Rayla's parents were never confirmed to be alive or dead. She originally believed they abandoned their post and abandoned their own kind. But she never believed they were dead. Runaan was established quite clearly that he's not quite "dead", and it's been established several times he isn't.
But with Harrow, leaving that note for Callum, Callum having to finally talk to Ezran that their father is dead after Ezran found out in the worse way possible, it's established for the most part pretty concretely that Harrow is dead. If he is somehow alive, just for the sake of the twist that he is, it would feel pretty cheap and lazy at this point.
I think your reasoning for why the King is dead based on what we know about Moonshadow elf magic is solid. I also just think from a narrative and thematic perspective the king has to be dead. I think it would undercut a lot of the character growth we’ve seen from the boys if their dad magically came back to life
Honestly, if I were to do this video over, I’d put a bit more emphasis and discuss a bit more on the character development of Ezran and Callum since Harrow’s death. Harrow’s letter to Callum and Callum’s subsequent journey, and Ezran accepting his role as king and returning to Katolis would lose some impact if Harrow is actually alive, even in a different form.
Before season 3 was even out my main counter to the “the king is alive theory” was that Viren wanted to rule... now I know that he and king harrow were close but I suspect that given the chance he wouldn’t do anything and just let it happen...
Viren had no qualms with having Harrow's sons killed, so I could see how he wouldn't have much of a problem if Harrow died.
@@TheoryPop I think that's part of it. You don't know Viren's character very well at first. He seems passionate about saving the king, and the land, and it just -looks- like he's crooked. then Wow, he is. But why save the king's soul and kill the kids? Probably to keep Harrow around and mock him rather than save him.
@@TheoryPop Yeah, but Viren actually BEGGED for Harrow to help him save Harrow's own life. He wouldn't have brought the Soul Fang to Harrow's attention unless he was desperately trying to save Harrow. Harrow and Viren were very close, and Viren thought the world of Harrow, even if they didn't always see eye to eye on things, these two were obviously close, dear friends. Viren's family considered Harrow's family like family and vice versa. I don't think if Harrow was left alive that Viren would have attempted to kill Callum or Ezran (more so Ezran because Ezran has the biological right to rule, Callum doesn't).
Harrow's death or whatever it was, or Harrow's refusal to let Viren save him and Harrow made it clear that regardless, his friendship with Viren was permanently gone, was what escalated Viren into setting up far more desperate plans he views as necessary. Whether or not Viren saved Harrow with the Soul Fang (hopefully, we'll find out), Harrow disavowing and disowning Viren made Viren see Harrow as "against him." That Harrow would no do what Viren saw as necessary. And when Harrow died (or his soul got stuffed into his bird), Viren never saw Ezran as a capable ruler. Ezran couldn't do the things "needed". When Viren couldn't get Ezran killed, he manipulated Ezran into giving up the throne. That's what Viren really wanted, after Ezran put himself in jail, Viren no longer cared what happened to him. He got what he wanted.
Hmm. You make a solid argument as to the competence of the moonshadow elves, but you missed one important detail: they believe Runan is d e d dead. All of them, old to young, missed the detail of the flower not quite sinking. Even though their magics are sufficiently subtle to detect such transformations, they themselves seem either ignorant or oblivious of these subtleties.
Yes, none of them know the flower is still partially floating, just below the surface. But that doesn’t alter or affect the theory.
But the ribbons should have known the difference.
My 7 year old now watches your videos as he became a huge dragon prince fan. We tried to have him watch it when season 1 dropped and he refused but then binged all of them this past month. You are doing great with your channel. Can't say I am not a bit envious of all the awesome feedback and conversation these videos spur- Keep going! I will be happy to say I was an early Theory pop supporter :)
I think the Dragon Prince has pretty broad appeal, glad he's enjoying it! Thank you for the continued support, it really means a lot!
Yea but the elves wouldn’t know anything about dark magic as they see it as a abomination
Xadia is filled with Magic. But it doesn’t deal with dark magic.
3:16 this is a wonderful peace of art.
Thank you, I worked hard on that masterpiece.
I only realize now, after my comment has been hearted, that I have made an error in spelling piece, and I am now genuinely angry at myself.
I’m going to be honest, I didn’t even notice until you pointed it out!
Yes I kinda had s feeling about his soul being in his the bird but I completely forgot about it lol
Interesting topic. The question is whether the binding magic performed by elf assassins is tied to the target's life force or soul. If it is tied to the target's life force, the soul switch spell technically should've worked. King Harrow's husk is still technically alive. So the binding magic would've recognized the mission as complete when the assassins killed him. One thing we need to keep in mind is that the principles behind dark magic and primal magic are completely different. So it may not be possible for primal magic detection/tracking spells to decipher all the hidden nuances of something created by a dark magic ritual.
Valid points. I worked on The assumption that the bindings, if “fooled” by dark magic, would react differently to normal and this would have been noticed. The pool flowers for Runaan is in this odd semi-sunken state, and that was a result of dark magic. But magic is, well, magic! It’s a tough one to really nail down answers to, based on what we have, but I went with this idea because I liked it! Thanks for watching!
Excellent point!!
There was still a bit of a delay from when Runaan killed Harrow to when the binding fell off. Maybe it could be longer than we think, and the magic just tracks when the soul leaves the body. You can't kill a soul.
It could be that that was when Harrow drew his last breath. Depends on the method Runaan used to dispatch the king, I think!
@Theory Pop I would disagree eventho your analysis seems valid.
The flaw is that Layla's (I hope I wrote her correctly) parents got trapped in coins as well. And their bodies were never found, leading to the assumption that the cointrap magic catches ones whole existence while the soulswap is only affecting the soul. Therefore the floating flowers don't have to be correctly tied to souls, opening the door for a soulswap again.
Additionally if Pip stayed in the castle Ez would have easily known that's it's his dad bc he can talk to animals. Therefore him leaving the castle and not showing up in Season 3 indicates further that pip is Harrow
Rayla's parents are heavily implied to have been trapped in the coins as well, you're right. And there is the assumption the whole body gets put into the coins, as we never see Runaan's body again. From what we've seen of the magic the assassins use, it seems very tied to the life of the person, but not just the body. However, that is still open to interpretation, until there is a definitive answer given. Thanks for watching!
Taka Incur Rayla😅
Taka Incur oh and the fact that what’s his name’s flower is half floating under the surface
I think one of the strongest aspects of the show, story wise, is how it deals with death and loss. I think they did a terrific job with how Callum and Ezran deal, each on their own and as brothers, with their father's fate. That's why, in my opinion, revealing that Harrow isn't actually dead will minor the importance of this plot line and the relationship between the two princes. I'm pretty sure that Aaron Ehasz, being the talented and clever storyteller that he is, doesn't want that.
I agree, Harrow's death really had an impact on the princes. Pulling a "sike, not really dead!" move would really undermine that, in my opinion.
there must be a reason as to why viren was in such a rush to dispose of King harrow's body
Harrow may be dead (and I do think he is), but something fishy happened in that room involving, Viren the soulfang and possibly Pip. Besides all you said, Viren glances menacingly at Pip at the end of episode 4 and at the beginning of episode 5, he crushes a magic butterfly in order to recover his normal appearance (from intensely using dark magic) and *we are given no indication as to what he used dark magic for* in that situation.
Maybe Viren tried to switch souls, but killed Harrow in the process. I don't know, but that whole scene definitely has plot significance.
I agree, there was definitely something that occurred in that room. The soul swap may have failed, or any number of things, but I don’t think Harrow’s soul is in Pip. Hopefully season 4 will shed some light on it.
@@TheoryPop I'm looking ever so forward to it!
I believe that Harrow had certain hopes for the future his son and stepson would take the kingdom. He told Viren about those hopes in their last meeting, Viren felt threatened by them and began down the path that included telling Soren to kill the princes.
Hey awesome video! I hope we get season 4 soon so these articles can stop reporting that they think it’s canceled. One of the front runners for the show said that it’s coming by the end of the year so I’m not worried.
Thank you for this video. I have felt a bit aggrieved by videos suggesting that Harrow is still alive, especially due to Dark magic. Harrow made a point of refusing Viren, stating that they would "pay the blood price", something he was aware of from his vengeance on Thunder. Your points about the Moonshadow elves being far more aware of magical tricks also seem correct to me. So, thank you.
Thank you for watching, I'm glad you enjoyed the video and the theory!
I mean we can safely assume the dark magic in question would not be voluntary in that scene.
I'll be the first to say you did your research but I feel as if you are forgetting one crucial detail Harrow never touched the bindings that were supposedly connected to his life. In the flashback with Runaan puts the soul flower in the water it glows when he touches it meaning that there is a connection to his soul through him physically touching it. Harrow never touched the magic ribbon so it couldn't be connected to his life.
I wonder if they'll ever reveal the ins and outs of how the various forms of magic works. Hopefully in one of the upcoming novels, or Callum's spellbook, will have clearer answers.
On one hand the show certainly seems to suggest something was going on there, we know Viren (or rather Claudia) had some idea to make it work, and it would be weird if this was just abandoned by the show later on.
On the other hand, the binding falling off seems to suggest his soul has past away and I don't think just killing the body would be a good and compelling explanation for how he survived.
But at the end of the day, as much as I love the show, it can have some clumsy solutions like how Zym was able to remove the binding without any set up for this and after magical solutions alredy failed to do so.
I think he is alive for one reason its dark magic, maybe the thing (Bracelet ribbon thingy) does not know how it works
6:06
How do you know his body is dead?
As far as we know he still alive (body and soul)
The TDP writers do have an ear to the ground with regards to fan feedback. So, if Harrow is not Pip, this change would have had to have been made after season 1 because the initial idea was too obvious.
With regards to elf magic connected to life: firstly, even the older elves don't seem to know how their magic works completely as evidenced by Ethari (and Rayla) not noticing Runaan's flower half afloat. The armbands seem to function in the opposite way to the flowers. So it is unlikely the Elves would have known if the Harrow binding could have been tricked. This is particularly true for Rayla who, having never killed, would have been unfamiliar with the magic.
Secondly, the only instance we have seen of magic binding to a particular life was the magic on Sarai's Thunder-slaying Spear. Even then, the incantation called it "a weapon of hate" not necessarily connected to Thunder's life. We have yet to see magic bound to life working without the target present. I think the armband magic's targets were the elves themselves and they relied on the elves witnessing/confirming their victim's death, not on the victim's life force or Spirit.
I realize however that there is an argument against this point because the binding didn't come off when Rayla thought Ezran had drowned in season 1. But maybe that wasn't confirmation enough.
Omg I have too much to say about it!!
When s1 released I strongly believed in Pip's theory, though there were some inconsistencies (like yeah, moonshadow magic). Though there was always a way to mix up things to make them match with the theory.
I started to have a lot of doubts when s2 went out: first when Callum learnt king Harrow's death. Then when he opened the letter: I always thought that in a sort of narrative logic (though I'm not a professionnal writer or anything), if king Harrow was still alive, the letter would have not been opened and read. Like Callum said, there was still the idea of him being alive as long as the letter was kept sealed. But as soon as Callum opened it, I said to myself "oh crap he is really dead".
Then in the end of s2 and s3, when Ezran learns his dad's death I was certain that king Harrow had not survived: indeed, all Ezran's struggles with his grief, his role as a new king and all the things he has to deal with, would be completely pointless if he finds out later that his dad is still alive and that everything could become like before. It would be such a huge step backward in his developpement (and the developpement of the whole narrative).
BUT: I can't still help but thinking something actually happened to king Harrow, other than being simply killed by Runaan. There are still some questions: why Viren did get in the king's room with the box and leave without? Did he tried the soulfang trick anyway? There was an ellipse between the moment we see Harrow and Viren talk to each other and the moment Viren got out of the room, and this part wasn't on screen. Something must have happened! And Viren was determined to force the king to live, he had a plan, and even Claudia didn't know what he intended to do. Neither do we.
We have seen on sreen the part when he tried to persuade it but it wasn't just this. There is something he tried and we didn't know about it, whatever it worked or not.
There is a tension point about this that hasn't been solved yet.
Also I trust The Dragon Prince's writer enough: if something happened to king Harrow, they will not let obvious clues: and I'm certain we can't find out what happened yet because we still miss some elements. Cartoon writers, and artists in general are very, very good in messing with our perception.
Maybe all the Pip's theory evidences we found was just a red herring, and the real evidences were somewhere else, where we didn't look yet because, or it's well hidden, or we still miss elements that will light up everything when we'll have them. This is what I think.
In all the cases I don't think king Harrow will be back to life. Or he's not dead but barely alive somehow and will die before the end of the show, or (most likely), he's dead but there's a mystery about his death that will explain some elements of the plot, or anything like that.
(I hope my english is good enough and I'm sorry for this long long text but I'm sooo excited when it comes about theories, espacially in such a well-written show! )
From what I understand, there's a novelization of the first season coming out in 2020, that goes into more detail on some of the events we saw in the show. It could reveal more about what really happened between Harrow and Viren before the Moonshadow elves attacked! I hope we get a clearer answer.
Here's a thought. Assuming Viren did turn Rayla's parents into coins, is Callum aware of it? I wonder how much he saw of that. The spell gave him enough detail for him to draw a realistic enough picture of them. I'm also unclear if he could hear what was going on, or if that was just for our benefit.
When Lujanne did the spell at the Moonhenge, the figures of the ancient elves weren't well defined. Their outlines were clear, but their facial features weren't discernible. I don't think there was sound either. But Callum was able to draw Rayla's parents perfectly after he cast the spell, so his version had more detail. Is that because there were fewer figures "on screen" at any one time? Or perhaps the spell is affected by how recent the event was.
Theory Pop maybe
counter-point for the bird argument, the animals seem much more intelligent there, based off Ezran's ability to talk to them. it is possible that most of the animals are self-aware.
The creatures of The Dragon Prince certainly seem to have at least a base level of intelligence, and are capable of understanding what's happening around them.
Nothing says the elves killed the king or the body. The ribbon just means the life ending...body dead problem solved. No telling when it actually happened.
The creators themselves said it at SDCC, and in the article I quoted.
I have an idea, what if the soul-switching viper doesn't exactly swap souls, but rather copies one's memories onto another? That way we could have Pip with Harrow's memories and experiences and probably gain intelligence while still being Pip, while Harrow is still dead. After all, the ribbon might consider consciousness a factor into determining whether or not Harrow is dead, but what's to say it considers memory?
I know this theory is probably way too out there and all, and is most likely not going to be accurate, but it's something I just thought of.
That may be an “out there” theory, but it’s an interesting idea! We don’t really know if the soul swap would even work, but the transfer of memories would be a heck of a twist on the idea!
@@TheoryPop It would also explain why Viren would want to keep Pip around and in a cage. I don't see much reason why Viren would want Harrow alive, but what Harrow might know would interest Viren. Maybe he would try to extract Harrow's memories from Pip when he needed it?
Your theory of King Harrows fate is probably correct and the fact that there was no mention at all of Pip the bird in season 3 then this bears things out in that respect and makes the theory of the Kings soul in Pip the bird out to be nothing more than a Red Herring.... however this still begs the question what was the fate of Pip the bird? We last see it escape out the window into the wild at the end of season 2 and that's that, but as it was a familure of King Harrow and no doubt knows of Ezran and Callam would it not try to seek them out? So it may still be possible for Pip to find king Ezran at a later date and although the Kings soul was in his body when he perished maybe as Ezran can talk to animals it will tell him what happened in the Kings chamber when Viren came back and the Moon Shadow Elves attacked and we will get some kind of flash back to that effect showing us what really happened there?
I am interested to see what became of Pip. If he is not Harrow, he was still witness to what happened, there may still be gaps that need filling in!
I had a different idea. Maybe the binding was tied to the physical form of death and not the spiritual form of death.
My main counter for this theory is that when Viren offered to swap his soul, Harrow refused. Harrow didn't do it because he valued the lives of everyone, including Pip. Why would he trade bodies with Pip just so he could be killed by Runaan? And plus, Harrow saw this idea as cowardly and he thought it looked like he would be running away, when that's against his morals.
Harrow certainly wouldn't have willingly allowed the soul swap to go ahead, he was very set against it!
Did you see Viren's face when Harrow made him kneel? Do you really think Viren just walked out without doing something rash after Harrow crushed his spirit and humiliated him like that? Like, idk, forcing Harrow into the magic ritual, seeing as Viren clearly doesn't care about other peoples' feelings if he thinks he's doing the right thing. Last I checked, dark magic doesn't care if the person it's being used on consents or not. XD
Maybe, instead of his body going into the bird, Viren put Harrow into one of the coins. Then the ribbon only got loosened ENOUGH for it to fall off of their arm.
But, there's something wrong with this theory. The Moonshadow elves know they killed King Harrow, so if he wasn't there, they would've wondered where he was and considered their mission incomplete.
It possible, and one theory I covered in a previous video, but my problem with it is exactly what you pointed out: it appears that the coin spell doesn't leave a body behind, so the elves wouldn't have been able to complete their mission!
@@TheoryPop That's what I believe, but maybe because the ribbon was released, all of the Moonshadow elves thought that one of their teamates killed him.
Maybe a pretty far out there theory, but what if Harrow and Viren switched souls? The king suggested it when Viren said "all these men would lay down their life for you", the bird would be the witness.
I can imagine an event like this could corrupt your soul which would be why Viren (with Harrow's soul) would act the way he does
It’s a theory I briefly touched on in a previous video, and while it’s interesting, I think there’s too much evidence against it. Harrow doesn’t have the extensive knowledge of dark magic that Viren has, so wouldn’t be able to use the spells we see Viren use. Harrow wouldn’t order the death of his children. And Aaravos would probably be able to recognise when a soul is in a body not its own.
Something I would like to point out is that a snake being born with two head is a 1 in 100,000 chance and the Likelihood of one surviving to adulthood in the wild is almost zero. To me it seems very possible that this spell was only theoretical until now and hasn’t been used before or I may have only been used once before. Ether way it’s very likely the moon shadow elves have never encountered this spell before and wouldn’t know to look out for it.
If the spell was theoretical, then we have to give Viren credit for performing it! The transferral of a soul must be one of the more difficult magical feats to accomplish.
I think the soul flower and the binding work in similar but distinct ways. For the binding to be able to know whether the person killed was the intended target, we would have to assume moon magic is omniscient. We can, but a binding with that power would probably come equipped with a feature to tell the assassin which person was their target. Because when Rayla first met Callum, he lied and said he was the king's son. And she hesitated to act on it as if it was important for her to be sure he was telling the truth. "We do not kill lightly." Killing the wrong person may have been the biggest taboo. The binding may instead be dependent on the assassin's decision, not on some omniscient power. So, if the assassin that killed the "King" truly believed he did, the binding would react as if it has. The soulflower, however, does not have this limitation as it would know exactly whose soul it was attached to via the flower ritual. Harrow is alive
Rayla also hesitated to kill Marcos, even though she had been ordered to by Runaan. She risked putting all of their lives in danger, because she couldn't bring herself to kill a human. Now her hesitation with Callum may have nothing to do with "was he telling the truth," but rather "this is the first person I will have killed, he is staring me in the face, can I actually go through with this?" Runaan had doubts Rayla would have the strength needed to actually kill someone, and it seems he had good reason to have that suspicion. It's also noted on the Dragon Prince website that the Moon is closely associated with spirits, so it's entirely possible the bindings recognise when a spirit has left the body. I highly doubt they would be tied to an assassin's "belief" that their target is dead. Moonshadow elves know about the power of appearances, hwo convincing illusions can be, theyd need something far more concrete than "well he LOOKED dead" to confirm the target has been eliminated. But we also need to look at this from a story and character development perspective: how much of Ezran and Callum's growth can be attributed to the death of their father? Callum read that incredibly meaningful letter fro Harrow, Ezran accepted the burden and responsibility of being king, and they both matured by way of facing and accepting Harrow's death. Harrow being alive, even in bird form, would undermine some of that development.
@@TheoryPop I generally agree with your response. Just to clarify, though, the hesitation in killing Callum, based on the dialogue, was more over his identity than anything else. And when I say the binding would be based on belief, I don't mean belief that the person is dead. The binding would know the person attacked by the assassin was killed for sure. I meant it would be based on the belief in the person's identity being true. But yes, the story would feel a bit undermined if he is somehow still alive. But who knows what doors Aaravos's key can unlock? I'm so excited for Season 4
Ah, I get what you mean about the binding now, I misunderstood! I suppose that could be true, but with magic, it's always hard to get a solid answer as to exatly how it works! There's a lot of unknowns still, and I went with what I thought was a fairly likely assumption, but an assumption all the same. There's apparently some extra stuff revealed in the novelisation of season 1, but I've yet to receive my copy, so I don't have any new insights on this yet! I really can't wait for season 4 either, there's some great stuff to cover in Xadia still!
Ok so with Runnan I don't think his body is dead, I think the dark magic traps the whole being in the coin. Its hinted at that Viren did the same thing to Raylas parents after taking the egg. Raylas parents were tagged as run away, I dont think the dragon queen or other elves would not notice two frozen dead moon elves in the dragons layer. Unless viren disposed of the bodies after words. I think that why they don't show the room after viren leaves ( it could be to keep it kid safe and not show a body but I think it was to not be clear to the audience what happend to the body.) So I just think the coins contain the entire entity of the elf not just the soul.
That seems right, the coin spell doesn’t appear to leave a body behind.
They literally show dead bodies in episode 3 of season 1. Callum's horrified reaction to tripping over the guards in the tower is not one you give to a kid who has just tripped over someone who was knocked out.They also show several characters, most overtly Kasef, being IMPALED by arrows ON SCREEN in season 3 (the same season as us being introduced to Rayla's parents and Viren's subsequent trapping them in the coins). In addition to this, Aaravos definitely killed all of those sunfire elves on the top of that tower thingy. The way the possessed guy's body slumped was disturbing and definitely intended to be showing him dead. And a sunfire elf clearly dies in Janai's arms after Claudia's magic explosion in the final battle during the series finale. If Rayla's parents did leave bodies behind and Viren hid them, it's not remotely because the show has any qualms showing corpses on screen lol. Or a lot of other dark things for that matter. TDP has been toeing the line with an M rating for some of its violence for a while imo. I mean, they even showed Soren's sword being drawn out of Viren's body and there being actual blood welling up in his chest, as well as blood on the dented crown after Claudia revives Viren after his fall.They would never have gotten away with that if they were still going through Nicolodeon (or however it's spelled). Just another reason why it's fantastic they are doing it from their own company so that they aren't limited by over the top restrictions lol. I love it.
Otherwise, yes, I agree with you. I believe the entire person gets sucked into the object, similar to what happened to Aaravos (unless of course, the whole caterpillar morphing into a new body for Aaravos is because his old one was left behind and has long since crumbled to dust? Then again, Aaravos would have been trapped using primal magic as the whole point is that the elves and the dragons despise dark magic, and the coin thing Viren does is dark magic, so technically slightly different. idk.)
I would assume that the ritual of binding can't be simply done by thinking about your target. Same goes for the assissins live flower lights. The assassins are present and part of the ritual. So there are rules to the magic/spells itself. If we take dark magic as an example, it necessitates the pressence of not only the caster but also the recipient/target of spells (otherwise why not just super charge a bunch of ballista bolts with hawk eye juice and wait till they hit their target, or why aaravos needs a counter part for his communication spell).
So going with the premise that you can't simply target anyone at any distance with any spell means you either need to be close, or have something of your target to aim your spell at (think about Claudias tracking spell). This leads to two scenarios.
1) Some assassin had to scout the castle, and retrieve something from the King (and/or his son) to use during the creation of that specific binding or the bidning ritual itself
2) or the binding spell works on the wearers perception and certainty of the targets death.
Both ways in which the bindings could work don't seem personal enough to track the spirit of the target.
So ultimately, I don't think the idea of Pip containing the king's soul is so far fetched as the bindings would only be able to track the state of the body and not his soul.
All on the assumption of course that magic has at least some rules on how it works which are consistent.
That's fucked up that other Moonshadow elves intensely assumed Rayla dipped instead of being the only survivor and I was in Rayla's sticharion I would be like well fuck you and rob them.
Yeah, just how little faith did they have in Rayla? I wonder if they were more likely to assume she ran, as all of the elves apparently assumed her parents fled and left the Dragon Prince to die.
@@TheoryPop I'm wondering what made I think Rayla's parents abandoned Zym
That may or may not be a topic I want to cover in my next video ;)
I’m just starting season 4 now, so I don’t know if this is resolved. At first I thought King Harrows spirit was in Pip, but once Ezran proved a capable King I gave up on that idea. However, Virren did SOMETHING in that room (assuming the writers didn’t just change their minds about the story line). He literally took Callums breath away to stop him warning the King, ordered everyone out of the throne room and closed the door. We see the glow of dark magic, then Viren comes out and Harrow is never seen alive again. Later, he forces an unusually quick funeral and tries to take power immediately. So what happened?? Did he strike down Harrow but leave him still living for the Moonshadow elves to finish off? Is that the secret Pip knows and could someday reveal to Ezran? Will it make any difference if Viren is already dead by then? Would it let Ezra pardon the Moonshadow assassin if he is released from the coin? Will we ever know, or is that plot point just dropped?
I personally think that because Moon magic is also focused on appearances, that the bindings can be tricked by appearances because changing bodies is really changing appearance.
I think it really depends on how you define death and the physics of souls. Death in literature is usually defined as the destruction of the body but the soul surviving and moving on to a new plane of existence. In the world of TDP however death could mean the destruction of both body and soul.
Well this might get deep but..Jut because Runaan has brn doing this probaly for awhle. Like you said Runaan did say that Rayla was one of their most powerful assains before she even started doing any missions. But the writers did say that King harrow died. bu what I think is that since weve seen Rayla has a vary much sensitive heart that she would,ve been more sad or more expressive about t. During the 3rd seasn no one mentioned anything about King Harrow at all. So I think there might still be a chance that he is still alive. Alo since is clear to see that vein wants to be king so bad, tat he might of entrapped his sprit or soul in a object.And the galxy elf we have hardly any informmation on. As well as veins background and king harrows. This can lead xan lead to the king still might be alive.
I personally like the idea of King Harrow being alive. We may see him in Season 4 (finger's crossed), with my idea is that he met up with Lujanne. Since she was considerably closer and being an Elf may hold knowledge of spirits and be able to recognize that the bird isn't acting how a bird should. With the end goal of Ezrin becoming King -again- and listen to his father's council now that Viren is gone. Though they may not double back and make Ezrin King again as the kid probably felt he wasn't doing a good job at it. But with the other Human Kingdoms now one army short and some even leaderless his rule may prove more helpful with the aid of Elves; if they are willing. As to why Runaan may not have recognized that Dark Magic as due to the Mage Wars, those types of magicians are incredibly rare and thus he himself may not have any experience in identifying it. And with an army of guards no doubt on his heels he probably didn't have time to Sherlock Homes the King before ending his life. Time was a factor.
But hey, that's my theory and I'm hoping some of it comes true in Season 4.
The binding would only come off if he died. So yeah, he’s gone.
both body and soul were swallowed into the coin. i could concede any affects could be paused by being stuck in the coin (unless his arm still comes off) . The king was indeed lost in body.
I think Ezran will be mature enough to maybe see why Runan did what he did and maybe even forgive him but Callum he's definitely not going to be able to forgive and will not be able to keep himself from being hostile towards Runan once they meet initially. Just from what he said about Avizandum killing his mother but that is only easy for him to handle because he is dead but it's going to be very awkward when they do free Runan.
Pretty much what I thought happened to the king. also before the big battle at the end of season three, I could have sworn I saw a bird flying overhead towards the mountain.
I think the writers considered having Harrow survive in Pips body, thus all the hints, but then later scrapped the idea.
On a side note, I wonder why assassins were not sent after Virian too considering what a large role he played in the dragon kings death.
It was very much "eye for an eye"
The king and his prince for a dragon king and his prince (egg)
I bet it depends on the exact wording of the oath. Runaan starts with "We bind ourselves to justice"... Justice can be served in many ways, and as the show points out, there are fates worse than death. Maybe with Harrow's body being dead, he would have no way of returning back, thus justice was served, in a way...
There is the thing with those flowers. Yes, they notice the difference between the life and death of a soul, but appear to still sink when the body dies (or, when person stops breathing). Those bindings could have had a similar limitation. And what people know doesn't always mean that their knowledge is flawless. Notice how many people say to Callum that a human can't wield primal magic without a primal stone or some other kind of conduit, until he actually does wield it...
Also, if the serpent isn't Cherkov's gun, then I don't know what is... they smack it over our heads twice...
Then there is also the fact that both Rayla's and Runaan's binding falls after Harrow's supposed death, not at the moment of it. Thus, I propose a theory, that the soul swap could have happened after the attack, when the king wasn't dead yet, but the fatal blow was already done... That doesn't explain Viren's actions after the king died, though, unless he tried to stage a coup only after he found out that Ezran and Callum took Zym's egg with a help of one of those assassins...
While Harrow himself is likely dead, what I am convinced of is that something happened in the room that night which was deliberately withheld from the audience and all the characters aside from Viren and Harrow. The fact that pip escaped, the scene between Viren and pip while pip is in the cage, and Ezran's ability to communicate with animals are all plot elements that will hopefully converge in the future. I don't think Harrow is pip but I think pip saw what really happened that night and will communicate that to Ezran at some point. Also, there is the fact that Viren briefly stole Callum's voice when he was attempting to talk to his stepdad. This may have just been to silence him about Viren having kept the egg, but still...
Runaan was trapped in a coin by Viren. after he refused to betray the other members of his team____including Rayla who showed mercy to one pf the guards when she saw the fear in his e in his eyes.
3:35 that's exactly it though, all the binding requires is the death of its target's body. Rayla's fellows assassins whom were believed killed, Veran trapped their souls inside coins which was enough to make the enchanted flowers tied to their lives sink. Moon Shadow magic does not seem to account for the soul.
As for 6:19 all that means is that his body is still alive, if only barely.
The other assassins weren't trapped in coins, they died in the fight in the castle. When Viren, at the end of season 2, casts his spell to summon the shadow-assassins, it's the 4 that died in the fight, minus Runaan (trapped in the coin) and Rayla (still alive). The dark magic spell is the phrase "Ash of fallen, rise again smoky assassins" spoken backward. The assassins are dead, fallen in that battle. Only Runaan, and likely Rayla's parents, are sealed away in the coins.
@@TheoryPop
When Viren shows Runaan the coins in S1E8, Runaan initially thought Viren was trying to bribe him. After getting a closer look, Runaan was horrified and refereed to Viren as a monster. It is my belief that those coins contained the souls of Runaan's comrades.
I get that you're desperate to believe that Harrow is 100% dead and that Moon Shadow magic accounts for the soul, but what we've seen so far hints otherwise.
The coins were more likely to be Rayla's parents. Viren mused on 'rewarding' them, specifically saying "How might I pay you?" Though this scene where Viren confronts them was in season 3, in the timeline it occurred before the assassins went to Katolis.
But we can agree to disagree, that's fine. This is only a theory, after all.
@@TheoryPop
Agree to disagree then and in time we'll see who's theory is correct.
Haha, that's true! It'll probably be revealed in Season 4, hopefully we'll get it within the next year!
I also want to thank you for a civil discussion, doesn't always happen on the internet but I'm glad we were able to discuss our differences in opinion civilly!
I thought Viren may have did the spirit switch then killed king Harrow after since they didn’t actually show the moon shadow elves kill him
you're ignoring the fact that Xadian Elves DON'T study Dark Magic.. which is what the soul swap stems from, they would have no way of knowing anything like that exist as its NOT WIDE SPREAD KNOWLEDGE. the only people who in modern times know Dark Magic are human mages, and the only family of human mages we know that practice Dark Magic openly is Varins family.
As a HarrowPip supporter, I gotta say, the flaw would make a lot of sense. Could the moonshadow elves or any other species of elves expected a soul swapping procedure?
Although i dont really know how it would make sense, i really want harrow to be trapped in a coin with runaan, it would make for a great dynamic between an assassin and his target.
There's only one problem with this theory . The bindings on the elves fall off. I guess it would depend on how those work . Do they only fall off for the body or the soul ?
I still feel like the soul swap could have worked. One of the strongest counters to your theory is how confident Viren was that it would work.
Also I'm still confused why the other assassins' flowers weren't lit, because in one of the earlier scenes, we presumably saw Viren show Runaan the pouch of coins that had the other assassins trapped in them, which would mean that they were also still alive. The only explanation I see is that the other assassins were killed, and the coins had some other elves trapped in them, perhaps Rayla's parents.
Confidence does not mean he’s right. The elves were absolutely certain the egg of the dragon prince had been destroyed, but they were wrong. As for the other assassins, they had been killed, not turned into coins. Viren summoned their “shadows” at the end of season 2 to attack the other kingdoms. Runaan was not among them as he was trapped in a coin. The other coins are likely Rayla’s parents.
If harrow wasn't dead, it would kind of make Callum and Ezran's story arc about accepting that entirely pointless.
What about the part of Callum's vision when he saw Harrow chained to a throne?
Yeah the emphasis on Harrow saying his trapped by history in the letter and that scene where he is chained to the throne in Callum's dream seem very foreshadowing.
Something that I am confused about, is why are there these two Primal Sources: The Stars, and The Sun when the Sun is a Star?
Couldn't The Sun just be Fire, or did they just not know that?
That could just be how the people refer to it? Maybe the sun light is different from the starlight because you can only seem them at seperate times of the day? The sun elfs and star elves look dramatically different so I would assume the also have vary different magic. Maybe it's just the magic that is drawn from it like sun magic is more strait forward ( the suns proximity) and star magic is more aloof ( because they are more distant?) Idk I'm sorry lmao?
@@parisheidi3119 That's pretty clever
The death of Harrow is one of the weakest points in the series. I don’t mind that we don’t see it, it can add more by what we don’t, but the last scene is of him berating Viren for his use of Dark Magic and for using him.
What happened after that? Why didn’t Harrow respond to Callum calling out to him? Why not show Runaan appear in Harrow’s chambers and then have a cut away? Plus, why introduce such a plot device to switch bodies when it’s not used or revisited? Either it plays a part in the overall larger story Or you edited it out to be reintroduced later.
If Callum returns to Katolis with a moon opal, he could use the Historia Viventum spell and see the truth. Though I’m sure he wouldn’t want to watch his father’s death, and he’s already convinced Harrow is dead, so there’s little motivation for him to do so.
You say that they know so much about their magic yet they dont know that elf dude stuck in the coin wasnt dead. If they know so much how can they not know that?
I would argue that elves do not know han behaviour, so they may or may not be tricked by the king acting odd, also, they are binded to the task of "killing the king" a person they barely know, they know basically nothing but what the king did and how the king looks like, how would they know that the thing they just killed didnt have harrows live? Also, what if viren used other person, a peasant or someone willong to die for the king, exchanging his soul with the king? Viren might have done that ritual twice in order to complete the deception
This is true, they may not know the intricacies of human behaviour, but they'd likely know at the very least the basics. Pip in Harrow's body would act like a bird in a human body, which would be very odd. Viren could have snuck in a different human, though we didn't see any other people volunteer to take Harrow's place.
Rayla gives the impression they do not, but also there is the "do what it takes" so under that thoughts viren could have used someone not willing to die for the king, dark magic is just too much for someone to just negate something to the archwizard of katholis
Nc video. i havent notice the subtle details not even at my third watching ...
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
I think that the magic of the Moonshadow elves just concerns the body of the target. So the body of Harrow can be dead, but his soul can live on in another creature like his bird. Viren could not have killed him, after all he considered Harrow as his friend despite Harrow's actions is his last moments. So Viren saved his life by transferring Harrow's spirit into the bird's body.
Another proof to my theory that in the first season, at the beginning of it, we can see that dark wizard as he claims the souls of a few magical birds. And not just absorbing their souls, but their bodies as well. So when Viren, transfers the chief assassin's soul into the coin, he also transfers his body as well. That's why the assassin's flower is in between the surface and the bottom of the pound. Because he lives yet not in full form, but in a coin.
That's my point of view. :)
King Harrow's death is an important part of Callum's and Esra's emotional growth and their relationship to Rayla.
I agree that Harrow's spirit might be trapped and that team Zym will need to free him so he can move on, but I feel bringing him back to life would be a mistake.
I felt the same way about Violet Evergarden, and yet…
But consider this .....renard was shown by varien his elven "treasures" this could I fact be a collection of coins containing more elves including reylas parents after all is it wierd that everyone thought they ran suggest that no bodies were found at the royal chambers meaning that even their body must haves been absorbed into the coin
The bodies may be in the coins. He even taunts Rayla with the bag of coins, saying he wants to add another Moonshadow elf to his collection.
I kind of don't want Harrow to be alive but I kind of do. Like his death was detrimental to the growth of the two princes. They've moved on and accepted their responsibilities as next in line for the throne. However, since Ezran abdicated his royalty.............if Harrow isn't dead, can he take the throne back??????
The problem is we don't know how the moon ribbons know that the target has died.
If this theory is true, I hope that pip harrow will go to ezran
My theories for future seasons. Perhapa callums cube is a key that can either help aaravos to escape through a mirror or to a nother important object that is jet unknown. About Arcanums i believe they can act as a portal to a death realm were our heroes bring back some dead characters. Then i think that ezran and aanya try to reunite the human kingdoms but viren also tries to get them back on his side which leads into a massive Civil war but finally they find proof that the new assassins were made by viren and that he really killed Harrow . For the final battle i think it will happen betwen the united armies of man and xadia against aaravos army which i bet he can create easily
you just ruined my evening D':
but good video !
Oh no! I apologise for ruining your evening! But thank you for watching, glad you liked the video! :)
@@TheoryPop aha don't worry, its just that I strongly believed that Harrow was alive x)
He could be. I don't personally think so at the moment, but that doesn't mean my theory is right! There's still a majority of people in the community that believe his soul is in Pip's body.
That interview is a strong argument for your theory. However I disagree with much of the rest of it.
I don't believe the bindings and the flowers function exactly the same way. I have been wondering for a while on how the bindings link themselves to their targets for a while now, but only because I like to ponder the mechanics of such things. A major difference in the two items is that Ethari had access to the assassins before they left. Maybe he used their hair or had them hold the crystal so it would imprint upon them.
I also never considered Runaan to be dead. I always assumed Viren trapped his body and soul in the coin and there was some way of getting him out of there. Until season 3 I had no real proof of this and it was just my head cannon. However it's strongly implied that he did the same to Rayla's parents. If he had left their bodies behind or turned them into husks the other elves would of assumed they did their duty and paid the price for it. Instead they were labeled as cowards who deserted their post, so I assume no one ever found their bodies.
As for someone cheating their death, I'm sure people have tried a few things, but that doesn't mean they've tried soul switching before. I could see someone using moon magic to make them appear as someone else or someone or something else appear as them, such as Viren and those moon moths.
The soul switching is likely a very rare thing. Soulfangs are depicted as normally having only one head and Viren himself said it was rare. In real life polycephaly (having two or three head) is quite rare, although most common in turtles and snakes. However it's still rare for such a creature to survive to adulthood. With the added risk of going out there just to collect the thing, especially since they will feed on creatures much larger then itself, along with being unable to spend much time in the desert it could be just getting a two headed soulfang is a miracle in and of itself. Add the fact that you need dark magic to make it work and they live on the Xadia side of the boarder where dark magic is seen as a vile and disgusting thing, it likely almost never happens and the elves wouldn't take it into account.
I probably should have led with the article, really!
The bodies are likely absorbed into the coins. We don't see Runaan's body after the ritual, and you're right in that Rayla's parents' bodies being left in the chamber of the dragon queen would have led to the conclusion they died doing their duty. I believe, though, that the body being inside a coin is as good as "dead" for the purpose of defining life: it's not breathing, there's no heartbeat, there's no need for food or water. It's this limbo-like state of being aware, still existing, but not exactly living.
@@TheoryPop I think it's in something of a gray area, which is why the flower is only half way down.
That would make sense, I think!
HEAR HEAR. Also, creators have outright lied in interviews before because the integrity of the story is more important than whether or not they tell fans the truth. And besides, "Runaan killed him. Runaan of the Moonshadow Elves" can still be an equivocation; ie: something worded to make us think one thing while actually meaning another and therefore not technically a lie. Runaan killed him. He killed Harrow's body, so technically saying "Runaan killed him" is true and not a lie. It doesn't mean Harrow isn't trapped in Pip.
I while Harrow may or may not be alive as Pip...pip certainly does play a larger role. As for the creator's quote I think they are avoiding what would be a major spoilier by by telling part of the truth. I am really hoping that Rayla gets to rescue her parents and Runan while figuring out that Harrow could be alive as Pip but Ezran is the only one who can speak with him. Also did no one else notice that Veran goes in with the soul fang but doesn't come out with the soul fang...crazy super dangerous soul fang loose in the castle.
I think we'll see Pip again in a future season. Did Viren also leave the Soulfang's basket in Harrow's chamber? He went in with it, but he didn't leave with it!
Evidence that it was used. It's highly possible, and likely given the nature of dark magic, that the soulfang serpent died as a reagent of the spell.
True, but did it also consume the basket? I'm semi-serious here, multiple guards saw Viren with that basket in the king's throne room when he first suggested the solution to Harrow, and if Viren burned Harrow's body to hide the evidence, then what did he do with that basket? Unless he had that hidden under Harrow's shroud and it burned at the same time. Just another way for the dark mage to hide what he may have done!
I think it’s pretty obvious that he’s not dead. I really wonder when they are going to reveal it though.
A little too obvious, perhaps.
If King Harrow is alive, he's either going to die after the reveal or to retire. Ezra has shown that even at such a young age he's braver and more apt to rule Catolis than his father.
Besides which, birds can't rule a kingdom. Even if Ezran wanted Harrow to rule, no one else would agree with it except maybe the people closest to Harrow. And Harrow himself certainly wouldn't think it wise. If anything, he would just advise Ezran.
Has anyone here read the book where viren wants to defy his former friend (Harrow) and Calem sees viren exit the kings bed room with black eyes?
The moon magic the one of illusion and what is not like it apparead
So it s hard to believe it Can be triked
Maybe the ribbon spell was bloodbinding so thats why it was able to be fooled 🤷♀️
Or just a mistake by the writers cus the emphasis on that bird is odd
He's dead
Is king harrow a good king or a bad king
He was a good king who made mistakes and chose to face the consequences.
Fun Fact: the coin sealing thing may be a nod to harry potter's horcruxes but the coin sealing seals the entire soul of someone while horcruxes seal only a part of someone's soul. but still...
POTTERHEAD 4 LIFEEEEEEE
PLEASE ONLY READ MY COMMENT IF YOU HAVE FINISHED SEASON 3.
I had believed that Harrow was swapped, soul for soul with Harrow, partly due to Varine's behavior regarding the rushed burial fire. I tended to believe that he did this to ensure nothing odd was noticed, but now I am questioning that.
Your point about the bindings (I hear Runaan say "Blood ribbon" at one point) is pretty convincing. The soul flower thing being obscured and weak under the water can fool the eye, but the bindings had no such obstacle. (Also, the creator, or was it show runner, saying Harrow was killed by Runaan seems to put that to bed.)
It does leave the question of what did happen in that room though. You don't see Varine bring the snake back and he doesn't seem like the type to waste magic ingredients. Also, something seems off about how Pip (the bird) acts and the focus on him. Varine taking him and caging him could have just been a twisted trophy moment, or maybe he was thinking of using Pip as an ingredient for something later. (I mean the man saved Queen Sarai's last breath. He's completely lost his humanity at some point in his life, long before Harrow died.)
So my long rambling boils down to, I now believe Harrow died, though a corner of my mind still hopes he somehow in Pip. But even if he were, with his body burned and no ability to talk, that's still a pretty dark fate. If Varine did that to him, I think it was a last act of defiance. Harrow wanted to die honorably, not live as a "coward". If Varine "saved" his soul he'd have denied him that fate much the way he denied it to Runaan and possibly Rayla's parents. (I accept that theory because he infers he has more than one Moon Shadow Elf in the collection, and those are the two confirmed times he had contact with Moon Shadow Elves before the insane march toward the Dragon Queen.
If Harrow is in Pip's body, there's a couple of reasons Viren would have burned it. First, to hide any evidence of the soul transfer (the soulfang's snakebite marks), and second, perhaps to prevent the possibility of transferring the King's soul back into it? Although I doubt transferring a soul into a dead body would be a good idea, but as we now know it is possible to revive the dead...
@@TheoryPop True, Claudia proved that possible. Honestly his rush to burn Harrow was my biggest reason for supporting the Pip theory.
On a side topic: Sun Regem refers to smelling "death" each time he meets someone who has used Dark Magic, and their are a few times that Varine looks like some cross between a zombie and Emperor Palpatine. I keep rethinking what he does with those glowing butterflies. My initial thought was that he is recharging his own life force with their's, and maybe he is, but it's also occured to me that he may just be hiding the effects visually. (I guess you could call it using their life force as a cosmetic) Now I am curious if he is draining them to stay alive, or just to not look dead to those around him. The way his true appearance was revealed by the Sun Elves (are they Sun Elves, Sun Fire Elves?) makes me lean toward him killing the butterflies for essentially a glamour spell to conceal his deterioration.
In the visual changes in Claudia this season it's made clear that Dark Magic certainly takes a toll on the person using it, and it seems the larger the act the higher the toll. What do you think?
While I don't necessarily 100% believe the Harrow is the bird theory, I do have some issues with your presentation. The biggest is that you are assuming that the two spells function on the same terms. For all we know the assassin spell only cares about the targets body, or perhaps they do both only care about the body and the reason the flower only half sunk is because Runaan's body is still "alive" as the coin. We don't see his body afterwards and the cell appears to be empty. Basically both theories rely heavily on assumptions for how all of the spells involved work rather than on any hard facts.
Personally, I like the idea of permanent loss as a consequence for everyone so I don't really like the idea of just bringing Harrow back. But at the same time, soul or not the dudes body was turned to ash, he isn't going to be taking back the crown as a bird.
I'm content to wait and see which of the theories is right or not. What I'm actually curious about is whether on not Zym freeing Rayla dissolved the spell for Runaan as well or if his arm will fall off once he is released from the coin.
I prefer the idea of death having a narrative consequence. Viren died but was revived by Claudia. Going by the number of theories out there right now, Harrow could return if he is in Pip, Runaan is in some way or another alive inside the coin, and Rayla's parents may also be trapped in coins. There are too many 'outs' for death to have meaning at this point! Although that's often a concern with worlds filled with magic.
Theory Pop Viren’s death did have a narrative consequence, to be fair. Claudia reviving him and even more of her hair turning white shows she’s falling to the dark side, and using Dark Magic to revive Viren shows that her path is basically set in stone, and that she’s willing to go to absolutely absurd lengths to not lose her family. So, even though he was revived, Viren’s death did have a narrative consequence in Claudia’s character arc. I do agree with you on Harrow’s death, though.
The theory I have is they made an illusion of harrow in another person and the bird went to harrow
I have a...weird theory, one I don't even beleve. When we last say Harrow, he was meaner then usual. Veran was a somewhat good character, up until he left the king's chambers. I feel like it is possible, not likly, but possible, that veran is dead, and harrow is in verans body.
Weird theories you don’t believe can still be really interesting! It’d be pretty far out of left field if Harrow had swapped bodies with Viren, but I don’t think Harrow would try to have his children killed. But maybe that’s the corruption of dark magic!
The one solution I’m dying to know is how did queen Aanya (queen of Duren) survive assassination from the ghost assassins?
During the meeting of the Pentarchy, she told Viren she had endured attempts on her life before. Obviously, shadow assassins are a bit different, but she probably knew to expect something was coming!
@@TheoryPop I headcanon that she kept the weapon from the shadow assassin after she survived it, and off-screen in between the last few minutes and end of Season 3, made a point to ask Rayla about it.
@@TheoryPop even Rayla couldn’t hurt the ghost wolves that Claudia sent against her (only Callum’s wind magic could), and the ghost assassins that Viren sent against the monarchs seemed to be made of the same stuff (I.e. equally impervious to physical attacks).
Maybe Duren has a High Mage who dispelled the ghost assassin, or maybe Aanya has enough skill in magic to have done so herself, but I can’t see how else she could have come out of that fight completely unscathed.
Before I watch, my theory was that he was in the bird, thought it was obvious but then it just never got resolved
It's something many fans have picked up on. I thought it would be interesting to suggest a possible alternative!
I watched all seasons in 2days
That's some good going!