What If Robert and Cersei Had A Son? (Game Of Thrones)
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2024
- One of the biggest issues in Game Of Thrones and probably the most important one that caused a lot of death and conflict was Robert lack of a true heir to the iron throne. But what if inatead of brothers, and bastards Robert Baratheon had a trueborn heir with his wife Cersei Lannister?
#asoiaf #whatif #gameofthrones - Розваги
I can actually see Ned accepting Lyonel's decision and staying as hand. Keeping the secret. It's not like he's stranger to doing that
We all know Ned can keep a secret
Renly would absolutely not rebel against his trueborn nephew. The Lannister incest babies invited challenge; a true son of Robert only a handful of years younger than Renly does not, especially if his alliance with the Starks is secure.
I think King Lyonel would publicly acknowledge his siblings as bastards and disinherit them, but not punish them for existing. Jaime would be dismissed from the Kingsguard and expelled from court, giving him a chance to make a legitimate Lannister heir. If there’s going to be a power struggle, it will be in the Westerlands between Joffrey and Jaime’s legitimate children after Tywin’s death.
I also see no reason Ned couldn’t stay on as hand, especially with his daughter becoming Queen.
Renly rebelled against his brother though. In the end he was the most envious of Robert and wanted to be hailed like he was.
Jamie violated his kings guard oath he would be sent to the wall or death.
@@anoncat001 Honorable Ned Stark and half the realm wouldn't have backed usurper if King Aerys II didn't violate every part of his coronation oath and didn't become everything a king should not and cannot be.
@@user-ti5cw1ug6l Actually Renly didn't want to be King, he was talked into it by Loras. He stood against Stannis because he didn't believe Stannis would be a good King, and couldn't keep people united properly. That doesn't mean he would rebel against his nephew if he's legally King. He never rebelled against King Robert, so why against his son? Makes no sense.
Renly though he could take Stannis, Stannis showed him why he was the only true King.
I would've called him Eddard Baratheon as a reference to how Neds heir is named after Robert Baratheon
I can see Lyonel learning of his half-siblings' bastardy leading to him writing a will for sucession in the event of his death without an heir. If the will has to be enacted, it'd reveal that the other children are bastards, but the mere existance would have the court gossiping about why Lyonel would have such a thing written up and they may draw conclusions. This could convince Ned to staying on as hand and it'd turn the other children into the same situation as the Strong Boys - everyone knows they're bastards but no one dares say it outloud. That could lead to Cersei retreating to Casterly Rock in an unofficial exile.
Ned and Lyonel would arrange to have Cersei and Jaime dismissed to the rock and maybe even summon Renly and/or Stannis to inform them they’d be next in line if anything happens before he can secure a line of succession. Ned would never abandon Robert’s kid after all he had been through in such a short time, let alone leave his daughter in a potentially dangerous situation without adequate protection. I like to think Tywin would be summoned to discuss the bastardry of Cersei’s kids so he could disinherit her line and have Jaime setup with a wife immediately. It’d be an extremely messy situation, Littlefinger and Varys would be scheming pretty heavily.
What fanciful nonsense. For any realm to be secured, all claimants must be eliminated. Why do you think Robert and Tywin killed the Targaryen children?
From History (which GRR Martin drew from heavily) with Joffrey being a spare not the crown prince his bad behavior would be more common knowledge and far more derided.
Wills of succession where usually used to skip trouble making heirs and no one is going to question wanting to skip over someone like Joffrey.
Unfortunately that causes a big problem in the long term.
It a good plan on paper probably good enough to satisfy Ned but Will of succession almost never work for Royalty (just look at what happened to poor Lady Jane Grey) and this is Game of Thrones there no way Lyonel would live long term.
The moment something happens to Lyonel the Lanisters are going to act to suppress the Will and Ned acting to enforce it. Almost certainly Ned would suffer the same fate as before just latter in the timeline. And now anyone with even a little blood claim is going to be able to argue a believe that they are the heir of the suppressed Will.
@@sfsin3380 the difference with Jane Grey is that Edward tried to circumvent an act of Parliament, the Act of Succession.
@@georgeprchal3924 So does every Royal Will of Succession. If they where following the any existing act of Succession there would be no need of a Will of Succession in the first place. The whole point of one is to supersede the established rules.
I would say that while Lyonel would share some similarities with Robert he would also take some traits from Stannis. I believe this would be the case because while he's Robert's kid he wouldn't be that close to his father because of Robert's complete adversity for any kind of responsibility, so Lyonel would seek out another father figure to learn from. Jamie may be there but at best would just be a fun uncle that teaches him to have fun or at worst hate Lyonel since he is Robert's kid. So Lyonel would drift close to Stannis to learn how to be a good leader and would probably end up being a good balance between his father and uncle. All the sense of responsibility and competence from Stannis and all the charisma and strength from Robert.
What if Robert & Cersei has a son together? A classic what if prompt , there’s plenty of fanfics with this idea as it’s interesting and capable of changing the story dramatically.
There’s lots of ways how this son of Robert & Cersei would’ve been like, my favourite being *Daveth Baratheon (Trials and Tribulations of the Oathkeeper)* that’s on AO3.
Seeing the interaction between Robb and Tywin in war meeting since Renly still rebelled against the Crown, so this what if is a classic for sure.
Goddamnit, 23:00 I’m tired of this misconception, Jorah Mormont was distracted by Barristan Selmy, so if he wasn’t there then Jorah would’ve saved Daenerys Targaryen if Jorah wasn’t distracted.
Correct me if I’m wrong: I think part of the reason that Cersei’s first child isn’t counted in Maggie’s prophecy is that the child didn’t live long enough to receive the GoT equivalent of a christening. In a lot of catholic backgrounds, it’s kind of considered your “soul birth” or something like that.
That’s a valid thought.
I HAVE WAITED FOR THIS EXACT WHAT IF FOR YEARS!!!!!!!
Gendry be like "am I a joke to you?" 😂
Cersei isn't his mother
@@theisjepsen22are you sure? They did have some hints that was meant to be the lost son.
@@theisjepsen22 massive hints to the contrary
@@theisjepsen22 I mostly just meant it as a joke 😅
But it is one of my favorite theories 😃
@@kittenallieare you sure? The whole point of Gendry in the books or at least in a game of thrones is to prove that Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella look nothing a like to Robert and more look like Jaime and Cersei. That’s why Ned is described to be shocked in his pov chapter and even in the show because this revelation could potentially lead to a war of succession (which it obviously does). So no to even insinuate that it was hinted it at would be a foolish thing to say.
24:28 "Loras put that battery in his back" 😭😭😭😭You wild for that one lol
i like using gendry as the stand-in for lyonel!
the first time i watched the show (still haven't read the books), i thought "so their first son *didn't* die, he was just taken away and raised as a bastard for some reason??"
What if Viserys only have daughters with Alicent?
What if Lucerys lost his eye *instead* of Aemond?
What if both Lucerys & Aemond died in episode 10?
What if Viserys had Aegon II married Rhaenyra *After* Laenor’s death?
What if Rhaenyra was like Jaehaerys The Conciliator?
What if Rhaenyra Targaryen married Borros Baratheon?
What if Viserys-I made Rhaenys Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death?
What if Viserys-I made Daemon Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death?
What if Rhaenyra married Otto after Alicent married Viserys?
What if Aegon-III lived longer and made his Daughter Daena hair after the death of his sons?
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa?
What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?
Assuming Rhaenyra chose Otto, her marrying him would make Allicent hate her so much more. I mean, Allicent had no choice in marrying Viserys but Rhaenyra had the freedom to choose her husband and she just decided to marry her best friend's dad to get back at her.
I think Otto would have been surprised but went along with it. I mean, house hightower has more political influence and like house Velaryon, is now a dragon rider house to boot. Regardless who gives birth first, Otto has a dragonrider kin on the throne for him to influence.
@@ifeeldead463 Otto would have married her and immediately started planning her “accidental” demise so he could become king. Fo sho
1: Then Rhaenyra takes the throne unopposed. With no male heirs no one is gonna choose to back Alicent and her brood over the eldest daughter.
2: Again, little happens. Aemond was a big deal because he had Vhagar. If Lucerys loses his eyes, Aemond stays more sane and has no grudge with a giant dragon, and Lucerys does. The overall Dance would change, but frankly it would likely end the same way.
3: Then Rhaenyra wins the Dance. Vhagar and Aemond are the Hightowers biggest weapon. No Vhagar this early means Rhaenys doesn't die and she makes sure Aegon is dead. Completely outnumbered and outgunned Rhaenyra swiftly takes the capital and executes her traitors.
4: No war if Aegon marries Rhaenyra.
5: If Rhaenyra was like Jae (A great warrior, politician, innovator, and leader) she may avoid the war entirely and help her house and the realm progress even further
If Aegon III lived longer, Daeron I wouldn't start the war in Dorne and wouldn't die young. What I don't understand is why they married Daena to Baelor when they had Daeron?
You know the fandom is dying when the What If scenarios start hitting the feeds 💀
What if Ned never knew about the tower , so what would Arthur and the Hightower guy do with the baby .
That's a good one, I love this. There's so much potential there, would the Daynes or the Hightowers raise the boy as one of their own? Would he ever know his true ancestry? Would they send him to Dany so she can help hide him? (Viserys is a psycho so probably not!). Would the Daynes or Hightowers want him to take the Iron Throne one day? Given the Hightowers' actions in HotD, it is possible they will see this as a way to improve their own power long term and technically he is a Hightower descendant....
Um I think it might also depend upon if Ashara actually had a baby by a Stark, they might try to pass Jon off as hers, hell they might go that route even if it wasn't a Stark that dishonored her so long as no one knew the truth.
Who’s a Hightower descendant? Surely you don’t mean Jon because he’s definitely not,
@@09hicktown Like D&D, I forgot about the existence of someone lol In this case it was Queen Aemma (RIP). Thanks for reminding me to look again, Aemma is the ancestor not Alicent ;-)
Another interesting plot point: Ned’s attempts to portray Lyonel’s siblings as bastards could be seen as somewhat self serving, as Sansa’s children will have less threats to the throne
Good video! Of all the Thrones related thought experiments, I think this is one of the more interesting ones.
Joffrey not beeing first in line for the throne could strongly impact his development for the better : . .
Another thing to note: Lyonel is not only an excellent name for the reasons you mentioned, but also because it sounds akin to Lyanna.
Whether Robert would have thst intention over the name, I'm curious if Cersei would take it as a slight regardless. It's possible she doesn't acknowledge it-a lot of characters have names with similar phonemes in Westeros-but if she takes it that way, it sets up a very bitter relationship between mother and son.
And none of this even mentions what sort of relationship Joffrey would have with Lyonel. Does Lyonel chastise or excuse Joffrey's actions? Does Joffrey develop differently with a big brother in his life? Does Cersei's scorn for Lyonel and doting on Joffrey cause tension? Lots of character avenues to explore.
It both sounds like Lyanna and the name means Lion. So it is a name that both parents would be happy about.
@@jang7675 I like to think that could be Robert's excuse, but I feel as though Cersei wouldn't care for it, still.
Oh, that child is still alive....his name is Gendry. Thats my headcanon, i refuse to believe otherwise.
Why would Cersei give up a legit heir who would secure her power and the Lannister’s influence at court. Even if she hated Robert, Cersei wouldn’t invite questions of incest if she truly had a child with him. Even if the rest are all by Jaime, providing a legit heir keeps her, Joff, Tom, and M secure as no one would care unless that heir were to die in his teens making Joff of questionable parentage the next in line.
Cersei is a lot of things but she isn’t that dumb to get rid of a legit product of the one job she had to do.
@@martidodger7106 In the books, she got multiple abortions to avoid having a child with Robert. There's no low Cersei, really.
@@martidodger7106 “A dozen years,” Ned said. “How is it that you have had no children by the king?”
She lifted her head, defiant. “Your Robert got me with child once,” she said, her voice thick with contempt. “My brother found a woman to cleanse me. He never knew, If truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years.
SAME!!!!!
@@JohnDoe-vw4zf It's almost ironic how if she hadn't done that, Maggie the Frog's prophecy may never have come true. Because the child definitely would not be born with a "golden crown." Alternatively, it might've changed the meaning of the prophecy to mean golden crown as in actual crown vice hair. Which would suggest ALL her children sit upon the Iron Throne at some point before dying.
More vids, this is good stuff sir!
GoT
-What if Robb didn't break his betrothal with Jeyne, but later with Margaery after Renly's death? Assuming someone else saw the shadow and vouched for Brienne so they didn't have to flee.
-What if Jon chose not take the Black and left the wall? (Free cities, rest of Westeros, Beyond the wall)
HOTD
-What if Lucerys survived his flight from Aemond?
-What if Aemond survived the battle of the God's Eye and returned to KL with Alys and his son? (With or Without Vhaegar)
I think Robb would’ve become king, easily. The Lannisters die during Blackwater, Stannis becomes king very briefly, Freys/Boltons have no incentive to betray Robb. Walder may request some heavy compensation. It’s hard to say what’d happen with Sansa, since she’d be a PoW now. Stannis may have her imprisoned, sacrificed at Melisandre’s behest, or just set her free out of his sense of honour and respect for Ned.
I feel like we would worry about Joffery more, cuz I just know he's be bitter about Lyonel getting not just a lot of Cersei's attention but all of Robert's. I mean, unless Tywin arranges an 'unfortunate accident' for the problem child or has him join the army to discipline him while giving him a different outlet for his violent tendencies, Joffery might get Lyonel killed
Mannnnn, I love listening to your thoughts ✌️
I'm not sure if Lyonel would be nice, because Joffrey wasn't born evil, but raised. Maybe Cersei would raise her first son the same as Joffrey making him arrogant and cruel just like Joffrey
Any kid that Robert and Cersei had would be screwed. A drunken absentee father who’s constantly whoring and out hunting. A narcissistic mother who would constantly be in his ear telling him he is perfect and will be king one day. Nobody mentions all the bad traits of both Robert and Cersei this kid would likely also possess.
OMG can you imagine a Choose Your Own Adventure Game of Thrones, that would be wild.
Varys would poison this trueborn son. In the books, his goal is a civil war, and he would get it one way or another.
Only 7 true Targaryens were alive during Roberts rebellion and with them all dead. Robert would be the closest claimant being great grandchild of Rhaelle, the aunt of Aerys the Mad
6:52 that freaking song is the best thing to ever come out of Season 8. I know that bar is very low, but that song rocks! I still listen to the full version of that song by Florence & The Machine.
Or Cersei lied to Catelyn. She wasn't known for her sincerity. Her purpose in the room was to see if Bran was going to survive or not and if he would reveal Her and Jamie's secret. So she made up a yarn to show fake empathy to Catelyn to disguise her true purpose.
Need more of this
Speaking on the show only:
I envision Gendry having been Cersei and Roberts child but maybe Cersei didn't want his child and had him ordered dead, and maybe Jamie instead of killing him just gave him up as a common bastard of Robert's. Or she wanted to keep him but Jamie had him taken away and told her he was dead out of jealousy and proceeded to impregnate her. All the visits and questions to Gendry weren't only that people wanted to make sure he was safe/ or kill him because he was Robert's kid but maybe because they wanted to confirm who his mother was. The secret was slowly getting out about the illegitimate heirs as rumors and stories started to connect. That's what I think. 😊
Do what if Robert refused to become king! I’ve always wondered what that would lead to but could never come up with anything
I had read somewhere that in Westeros, children are not counted as part of the official count until they survive their first year, that's why Baby #1 is not part of Maggie's prophecy
i think this timeline is peacefull in some part whit Lyonel and sanas being together and having children the starks and lannister being more controled, and if everything goes right we could se a stable kingdoom but after lyonel death i think there could be a war between again the starks and lannisters but who knows, about the hand of the king ned and stannis are the most obvious options i dont think in this scenario theres chance of twin being the hand of the king
Am I the only one that thinks it’s a possibility just a small one, that Robert low key knew. Literally never had this thought until just now
I often think how different the series would be if you change just a few things. What if Robert Baratheon had adored Cersei…. I think she would have actually been a total loyal wife and vicious supporter of Robert. What if Jamie didn’t love Cersei. I think a lot of his character… was his guilt for loving his sister. He was a man fit to be king but his guilt made him run from power and attention. Some see Cersei as some brilliant manipulator…. I see her more as a feral wounded animal who just happened to fall in the position of power that allowed her to take her pain out on everyone. Would have Tywin tried to take the crown if he had a son fit for the crown. Etc…. Just things I think about. Enjoyed the video
I thought about this some while ago. I like the image of Lyonel as someone like Teddy Roosevelt-born sick, but refusing to succumb or be frail. A character who seeks adventures and obstacles and challenges, within and without, to overcome them.
Whether his early sickness would leave him stunted or he powers through it and takes his father's height (at least in the books Robert is 6'6". Mark Addy, the actor, is about 6' even), that could potentially change the trajectory of how he sees strength and might.
And this is ignoring whether or not he inherits his grandfather's cunning. Would he be as able a statesman as Tywin, if less brutal? Or only so involved in such affairs as his father-more concerned with feasts and tourneys and glory and challenges?
All interesting directions, to not even mention the elements you touched on in this video.
Lyonel Baratheon. House Lannister's sigil is a lion. Was the subtle pun intended?
A huge conflict I can see happen is the starks and the Tyrell’s having a conflict. I can’t see Renley turning against his actual nephew. But I can see him reaching for power for both him and his friends. Renley had been trying to get Robert to Mary Margery for a while, I can see him pouncing on Lynal trying to get him to set Sansa aside to put the Tyrell’s in power.
When is part 2 of the what if with Maegor the bronze dragon or what if Deamon was king of the narrow sea.
What if wish list.
What if lord commander Westerling killed cole and the greens in the small council chamber.
What if Rhaena claimed the Cannibal after the drift mark thing.
What if Viserys and Daemon brother Aegon was alive.
What if Balerion the black dread was alive in house of dragon.
Are you sure Westerling can beat Cole in a fight?
@@KaiHung-wv3ul Yep and remember he not alone at this put in time there only two of the king guard that are really loyal to the greens cole and one of the twins, while Westerling and the rest are truly honorable, and if Westerling decided to stop them the rest of the guards would follow him.
@@phil.moloney2980 Are you sure of that? As I recall, only two (or three, counting Westerling) of the Kingsguard defected to Rhaenyra after Aegon's coronation, and these are mostly men chosen by birth and connections, not honor or even skill.
If anyone loves this concept, I strongly recommend the fanfic Trials and Tribulations of the Oathkeeper by DeadlyMaestrom711. The boy is named Daveth, and it’s overall very well-written.
My personal theory on the valonqar is that it’s Tommen, the one younger brother no one would see coming. Her baby, her boy, the younger brother to the monster Cersie created
I could see vary’s and Little finger too under certain circumstances arrange for an accident for any true born kid they may have had
It may be a slight technicality but there’s possibly a difference between a child and a baby? I mean, if it was said how many would she birth could change it somewhat
You say this sounds like a glorified fanfic, but it sounds so cool! I'd 100% read it!
You forgot Stannis going to Dragonstone when Jon Aryan died. He was investigation with him.
Lionel would probably do as Robert did and bow to political necessity and beg Ned to stay.
Likely Lionel would not care for Joffrey but Mycella and Tommen were nice and he would likely care about them if not Joffrey.
Also I think it would be interesting if he met Gendry or his other elder bastard siblings.
If you want to do another one of these scenarios you could try doing “what if Ned and Ashara’s baby survived”. Canonically, ashara Dayne had a miscarriage that was likely Ned’s (or his brother Brandon’s) child, and if this child survives Ned would be honor bound to take care of it after ashara commits suicide following the news of her brothers death. That means Jon is likely written off as this baby’s twin brother and both are deemed as Ned and asharas illegitimate children by the rest of Westeros. This gives Jon an outlet to grow up with since he’s no longer the only bastard in winterfell and now has a brother who can relate to him and share his concerns and dreams with. This brother is also the nephew of Arthur dayne, so if the Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree he’s likely an incredible fighter from an early age which would further challenge Jon, who in the books is much less of a fighter and more of a cunning planner. The result is that ned now has to raise an actual bastard who’s ambition to follow in the steps of his uncle would land him in trouble overtime as he likely would follow Ned south as part of his household guard. He may fight Joffrey on the kings road to protect Arya, he may participate in the kings landing tournament, and he may even fight Jamie to protect Ned (Jamie would probably have an interest in his idols nephew as well). However, I’m not one for writing a fanfic at the moment and I just think the scenario is worth pondering since another actual snow could drastically change the course of the story.
Well, technically, Ned and Ashara's son did survive, his name is Jon Snow.
(I'm an NAJ fan.)
How do you think it would change Jon, if he grew up presuming his mother was Ashara, what if the baby was a girl.
What if daenerys's son survived.
What if cersei and Rhaegor got married.
What if Jon snow never went to the wall.
Isn't your description of Lionel basically just Renly?
Ned wouldn’t abandon Robert’s son like that, no way. Especially with Sansa still there and the attempt on Bran’s life, he’d stay if only for Sansa’s protection. They’d probably arrange a deal to have Jaime, Cersei and the bastards dismissed to Casterly Rock to remove them from public eye and politicking in exchange to stay as hand.
Also where’s Tywin? I imagine he’d have a few things to say if Lyonel found out about Cersei’s adultery had her and Jaime and the kids sent back. It’s hard to say how he’d react. I like to think he’d immediately arrange to have Jaime find a suitable heir and disinherit Cersei’s line. Or if Ned does end up leaving, he’d probably join Lyonel as hand.
Neither of his parents would have loved him either just likw with Joffrey, Tommen, or Marcella.
Cersei would kill the true born son in any alternate universe, so long as bobby b says “Lyanna” in their wedding bed.
So basically sounds like “what if Joffrey wasn’t a dick” so far 😂
I thought gendry was their son because cersei says her son had black hair like rob and gendry said he remembers his mom's blonde golden hair
I think Melisandre would be more interested in Lyonel and Sansa's children. The kids with the song of ice (Stark) and Fire (Baratheon through their Targaryen lineage). Especially if they end up with three....
I just figured that Cersei was lying about the child and was inserting herself into the issue. Plus if there were incest rumor swirling it would be best to plant the idea that Cersei actually bore a son for Robert
It would be odd that Cersei and Robert would have had a child who died and it wasn’t recorded by the maesters/ned wouldn’t have known before hand.
It sounds like the baby lived a bit before the fever took him so likely an announcement would have gone out at the time of birth/the bells would have rung for his birth, so KL would have been aware that a child was born ahead of Joeffry
What of gendry is actually Robert and Cersis true born son.
What if Lyanna Stark was engaged to Jamie Lannister it sounds unreasonable but let’s say Tywin decided to approach Rickard Stark before Stephan Baratheon
What if either Viserys I named Rhaenyra his hand of the king (to get the realm used to her rule and get her some practice ruling), or abdicated the throne to Rhaenyra when he became severely ill (to ensure a smooth transition of power to the chosen heir).
What if Brandon killed Littlefinger
What if Ned sent his daughters away before confronting Cersei.
What if Bron lost at the Eerie or just didn't want to risk it?
What if Cersei and Jaime had the sense not to get it on in Cersei husband's best friend's home that they'd never been to before.
What if Joffrey didn't have Ned executed.
What if Robb married the Frey girl
What if Arya picked more politically advantageous names.
What if Ned fully explained the situation to Sansa and Arya so they knew what was going on.
What if Bran was killed.
What if Lucerys was fostered on Driftmark.
What if Aemond and Jaecerys were best friends.
Show only What if the strong boys resembled their mother.
What if Rhaena claimed Vhagar.
What if GRRM realized that brides below 15 weren't that common.
What if Aegon escaped before his coronation.
What if Rhaenyra only had daughters.
What if Rhaenyra married a Hightower.
What if Alicent didn't have children.
What if Lyana survived
What if Baelon accepted Robb terms, maybe Robb phraes them in a way that Baelon can accept, or maybe Baelin a bit more pragmatic.
What if Jon didnt join the Nights Watch.
What if Ned had his children fostered at various places.
What if Robert legitimized one or more of his bastards
What if the mad king burned King's Landing
"What if robert had sent joffery to foster with Ned?"
John Arryns last words “the seed is strong” was 1:15 his attempt at leaving a clue about the so called Baratheon children’s lineage. Wouldn’t “joffs a bastard” have been a better clue? Or “Jaime pumps cersei”? Or “Jaime’s joffs father” or a million other possibilities?
Just sayin.
I believe that Robert and Cersei did have a son. Cersei abandoned it to get back at Robert for cheating on her. She vowed to never get pregnant by Robert again.
Explanation easy… Cersei was LYING to Catelyn about her “black haired beauty…”
The man
The Myth
THE LEGEND
What would Lyonel's relationship be like with his uncles Baratheon? Or his grandpa Tywin?
Cersei is lying to Catelyn, she didn't have a child in the show either
the plothole is just there if you assume Cersei is telling the truth. We know she has stopped pregnaancies from Robert, but here she might be exhagerating the pregnacy progress from a miscarige to a stillbirth since she knows that feigning sympathy and shared loss with Cathlyn will help in her manipulation o hide her involvement in Brans "accident"
26:46 Any "What If" scenario is fanfiction, lol. There's no shame in that.
I think Cersei only said that to Catelyn, of sympathy for herself, because she knew what her and Jamie have done. I dont believe Robert got a kid with Cersei. Or maybe it was a bastard from a lover of Robert, and Cersei ended up with the bastard kid, and "the flu" was a murder by Cersei. Like Catelyn ended up with Jon Snow.
What if Viserys and Alicent have only daughters
What if both Rhaegar and Lyanna survive
Rhaenyra ascends almost entirely unquestioned unless she is killed.
I assume Robert died, and Rhaegar won, Ned might be spared as a favor to Lyanna. Lyanna stays with Rhaegar because North would probably be pissed with her unless she was full on SAed. You have to decide Lyanna and Rhaegar and Elias marital status, does it match the TV show.
I think Gendry is the true born son of Cersei and Robert.
What about Stannis? Would he even have left for Storm's End or been present in King's Landing?
Probably. He was seething when Robert wanted Ned to be his hand instead of him.
I believe it would be easier for Ned & or Jon Arryn to tell Robert about the infidelity.
I still hope for snow's serial
Please do what if Cersei Lannister was born a boy
make a what if Aegon V didn't die in The Tragedy of summerhall, and had managed to hatch dragon eggs, let's say 3 dragon eggs to make it interesting, how would that change history from that point o,n with no one dying in summerhall and dragons returning to the world?
No, the prophecy means “Little Brother”
GOT what if ideas:
What is Robb survived the red wedding
What if Viserys 3 lived
What if Barristan didn’t die in season 5
What if the dorne plotline made sense
What if Jon actually pushed his claim in season 8
*edited to clarify which Viserys
Which Viserys?
@@maryssaflynn3208 danys brother.
What if Viserys confronts Daemon in Dragon Stone instead of Otto.
Ummm, they DID have a son. His name is Joffrey Baratheon, the TRUE king of Westeros 😤
Cersei's incest babies were an open secret. If there was a legitimate heir there would be no civil war. The Game of Thrones would be more like the Lord of the Rings with a united country fighting against the Nightwalkers.
His name is gendry fam
What if Rob kept his promise and married a Frey?
I thought Gendry was infact their eldest , a boy of brownhair & roberts features …. Wasnt that gendry (didnt cersei say this)
I wonder if this is even possible in a "what if" scenario, because it would require changing Cersei's character to begin with. Because... I kind of think she killed "Lionel." And by "kind of think," I mean she definitely did. And even if she didn't, and he actually died of natural causes... if he hadn't died of natural causes, she would have killed him. She wanted a pure Lannister on the throne... somebody who was hers and Jaime's and not Robert's.
Edit: I'm basing this primarily on what she said to Ned during that meeting where Ned tried to warn her. Can't recall if she goes into this in the show, but in the books, she specifically said that she only wanted Jaime's children, and went out of her way to keep Robert from being able to conceive any children with her.
Edit #2: If we take your premise that Lionel is not killed, I agree Ned would tell him the truth after he ascends the throne. He probably wouldn't give Cersei the same heads-up, because the reason he gave Cersei that heads-up in canon was specifically because he knew Robert was not above wanting Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen killed for not being his, and Ned needed to prevent that. Without that factor, he probably wouldn't have given Cersei any heads-up. Once Lionel knows the truth, though, I think Ned would be satisfied, regardless of what Lionel chooses to do with it. I think Ned's problem with the three kids was that they were a lie, and he had to tell his friend the truth, and then the problem was that Ned suspected that the same woman who told that lie had then _killed_ his friend, for the purpose of ensuring her child's seat on the throne. Ned doesn't actually have any bad feelings towards the children; quite the contrary... the whole reason he gave Cersei a heads-up was to _protect_ her children. He'd see it as his duty to inform Lionel of the truth, but unless Lionel follows in his father's footsteps and orders his three half-siblings _killed,_ I don't think Ned would have any problem with anything Lionel chooses to do.
What Lionel would do does raise an interesting question. He could very well simply legitimize his three half-siblings. But if he legitimizes Joffrey, that would incentivise Joffrey to kill him and take the throne. But if he legitimizes Myrcella and Tommen, but _not_ Joffrey (because canon Joffrey was a terror to his siblings, and I see no reason why that would change... if anything, seeing his older brother be doted on by Robert would probably make Joffrey worse), that could lead to any number of political and family issues. I think Ned (who would not leave) would advise him _not_ to legitimize any of his half-siblings (otherwise there could be a Blackfyre-type situation), but send them to be wards in other places, away from Cersei. Which would lead to an interesting issue with Cersei.
Could be wrong but if the kids were to be legitimized wouldn't they be legitimized as Lanisters not Baratheons?
@@maryssaflynn3208 That's a good point. Hadn't thought of that yesterday. :)
I wanna watch this show
Sorry but who cares we ready for daerons revenge part 3
What if aemond survived the gods eye
Actually the child died so Cersei didn’t really have the child
What if daemon and caraxes lived
Honestly this kid would probably be a mess of a person. Having a drunken absentee father and a narcissistic mother. Add in his status and genetics on top of that would make this likely. He comes from a family who are all attractive (besides Stannis and Tyrion) and charismatic/charming (sorry again Stannis). Lyonel might not be a monster like Joffrey since Joff is most likely a combination of being mentally ill combined with awful parenting. But the signs point to him most likely not being well adjusted.
Tommen and Marcilla don’t share their brother’s cruelty. In fact Marcilla seems rather well adjusted. Its quite likely whats wrong with Joffrey is a mental genetic defect from being a product of incest coupled with and exasperated by his poor upbringing. The theoretical child of Robert and Cersei wouldnt have such a defect as he wouldnt be a product of inbreeding
@@ericsegura4977 But the kid in this case would have to deal with Cersei and Robert’s bad parenting. Robert was never meant to be a father, he says so himself. Cersei wouldn’t ignore Lyonel in this scenario, he is her path to power and gives Joff and the other children legitimacy for just existing. I’m not saying Lyonel would be a monster like Joff. But, he most likely would not be a nice person. Any child of Cersei and Robert would be screwed, imagine combining the negative traits of both.
@@palantiri6590 you’re just describing Joffrey, Tommen and Marcilla without the incest component 2/3 of which came out just fine.
@@ericsegura4977 Tommen and Marcella turned out fine because neither of their parents payed much attention to them.
@@ericsegura4977 neither had Cersei’s toxic overbearing parenting to mess with their development.
I thought Renly was their son ??
What if Rhaenyra married Ser Criston?
What if Daenerys didn't go mad
I think Lyonel booting Jaime from the King's Guard would change things drastically and probably win him favor with Tywin. I think Lyonel would respect Tywin as a warrior as well, making for a strong contender for being Hand still. Jaime being heir to the Rock definitely makes things easier for Tywin to focus on making a King of Lyonel who would likely listen to Tywin.
I think something your missing is Lyonels sickness that he canonically died from. If he survives then he grows up in a weakened body that prevents him from being completely like Robert and probably forces him to rely on his wits and intelligence more than his brawn. That probably makes him insecure with himself since the martial culture of Westeros values strong men who can fight and Robert would especially be hard to please if Lyonel can’t participate in tournaments or even fight. Jon Arryn probably does the majority of the work raising him along with pycelle who follows him around to prevent him from falling sick again and likely dying (on Cerseis orders of course). This would probably make Lyonel a stubborn, insecure, and diligent young man who wants to desperately please his father and outgrow his mothers coddling and helicoptering.
Cersei would kill the baby.
why
What if Rhaegar survived the battle of the trident but was captured gelded and sent to the wall
Robert becomes known as a second mad king and the 7 kingdoms become separate kingdoms again because nobody will bow to him.
@@alex52043 why it's not like Rhaegar can press a claim for the iron throne especially not without his baby maker meaning he cant produse heirs and when you end up at the wall you swear to give up all lands and titles