What If Rhaegar Won The Rebellion? (Game Of Thrones)
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- Опубліковано 19 кві 2024
- History was changed forever the day Prince Rhaegar Targaryen met Lord Robert Baratheon in the shallows of the trident. It was the death of Rhaegar that set house Targaryen on the path towards destruction. But what if the dragon had overcome the stag all those years ago?
#asoiaf #gameofthrones #whatif - Розваги
Robb betrothed to Daenerys that would be interesting
Now that's a thought exercise.
Wasn't she going to be marrying viserys anyways?
@@LisaAnn777 She just assumes she is. Technically Viserys was supposed to marry Arianne Martell but he didn’t know about the pact and later died.
She'd have an affair with Jon.
Fulfilling the pact of ice and fire that Jace made with Cregan Stark all that time ago.
Sansa marrying Valerion makes no sense since he's the second son. What makes better sense is Rhaenys marrying Robb to appease the North, Valerion marrying Arianne to appease the Dornish and Aegon marrying Margaery since they need the crops and livestock for the coming winter and the Reach supported Rhaegar from the start of the rebellion.
I was thinking the same thing lol
Are we talking Dany’s dragon or her brother (Viserys) here? 😉
@@sethh1943don't know what you mean. Viserys will hold very little importance to the Targaryans and without the plot going like cannon Dragons never happen
Marrying the princess to dorne the living embodiment of the king insulting dorne isn't really a sensible option.
@jeambeam3173
I doubt that. Viserys is still the King's brother, and a Targaryen Prince. Why wouldn't he be important?.
What if Ned has successfully deposed Cersei and Joffrey after Robert's death?
Tywin would be pretty angry.
@@timtheskeptic1147 and not much else lol 😂
Boring Story
...but what most of us were hoping would happen.
@@thatsoundslikeheresytomeyo4960He'd have to get over it. He would be surrounded. If he went to war he'd have to fight AT LEAST the Baratheons and the storm lands. The North, Most likely the dornish because they hate Lannisters, and once little finger sees that all those houses are against the Lannisters. You'd get Petyr convincing lysa to also have the Arryns go against the Lannisters as well. And because they aren't stupid. You'd have the Tyrells either A. Joining in on that dogpile, or B. Stay neutral. Tywin is smart and would see a lost cause when he saw one and sue for peace pretty fast. In exchange he would likely ask for his children and grandchildren to be spared. Which Stannis likely wouldn't grant, but, with Ned being there and likely still hand of the king. Ned might talk Stannis into it and as a result would probably grant it. Sending Tommen, Joffrey, and Jaime to the nights watch and Myrcella and Cersei to the silent sisters.
After that Stannis is king, Eddard is still probably hand. Tywin is bruised and beaten and dishonored because of what his children did. And is forced to name Tyrion his heir, or name Kevan his heir to casterly rock.
The rebellion formally started when Jon Arryn called his bannermen rather than hand over Ned and Robert. It was called Robert’s Rebellion he sat on the Iron Throne. Ned wasn’t interested in it. And the Tully’s were in with the Starks. It’s more of a Northern Rebellion than Stormer own.
I love how Dorne are more open minded with all the succession and bastards thing
It's a sight better than the other kingdoms' view on bastards.
@@timtheskeptic1147because they’re a promiscuous bunch. they’re truly deprived and shameless
Honestly if the Targaryens were smart, they would have classed up their families bastards. Call them dragons and try to at least marry them off to members of the other great houses where they would take that house’s name like how Aagon brother during the conquest
Not so sure they would be accepting of rhaegar creating an alternative heir to aegon. Dorne may not villafy bastards but they are not treating them equal to trueborn children.
@@CorvoThan Dorne is the only kingdom in Westeros that can legitimately say, "fuck off, I'll do what I want!"
What if Viserys only have daughters with Alicent?
What if Jace & Helaena married?
What if Viserys had Aegon married Rhaenyra *After* Laenor’s death?
There is a fanfic in AO3 about Aegon marrying Rhaenyra, slowly updated
@@0predaking0
Why didn’t you mentioned the name?
Now I’m imagining a time line where Lucerys still takes out Aemond’s eye and Viserys then betroths them together
for Jace and Helaena the greens are forced to choose between her or her brother's lives as she would become a hostage for the blacks, the war would still happen because much of the realm would always support Aegon over Rhaenyra or Jace.
what if maegor didn't die on the iron throne instead went to war with jaeheries sorry for misspelling
in the show, Rhaegar didn't even put a dent into Bobby Baratheon. In the books, Rhaegar wounded Baratheon. So lets get the facts straight here.
The Nights Watch deserter maybe doesn't get beheaded because Rhaegar has told Ned about the threat from the North.
A happy end for the poor dude xD
But does rhaegar actually know avout the white walkers? Aegons prophecy just speaks about a threat from the north. The wildlings would fit the bill.
Also why should ned believe in rhaegars prophecy? If someone would tell me such a thing i would believe them to be mad. From neds perspective this seems to be the more logical conclusion
@@CorvoThanso people like bran and the wildings having magic abilities to warg into animals and humans is believable but talking about prophecy is were you draw the line and called them mad you do realise rhaenger was right the prophecy is real.
@@mohammadhosseini6675 well people in westeros also dont truly believe in wargs anymore. And rhaegar was definitly wrong. Aegon can not be the prince who was promised
@@CorvoThan He was right about the Night King and the ice zombie invasion and he will 100% listen when he hears dead people are coming back to life, and the nights watch need more men he will probably send a platoon in cycles of maybe 3 to 6 months or more and his own men will confirm the Nights watch claim that the others threat is real ironically the commonder of the nights watch that told Jon it doesn’t matter who sits on the iron throne when in fact it does matter and his wrong because someone like Rhaeger will actually help as well as Robb Stark because of his family which is Jon says take this seriously send help than he will.
I disagree about Elia. She would see Jon as a serious threat to her children. Remember the Blackfyres anyone
Plus Jon is a visible reminder of how Rhaegar humiliated her in front of all of Westeros. I doubt she would be a mother figure for him.
Jon would also be surrounded by intrigue and viewed with suspicion by many so I doubt he would be happier growing up in the Red Keep then he was in Winterfell. Also would Ned really betroth Sansa to a bastard?
Technically jon in this version would have been made legitimate.
He’s the second son, he can be moved down in succession with each son Aegon has.
At this point in time, Elia's beloved brother, Oberon, already has like 3 or 4 bastards running around and her family dotes on them. I mean, sure, she would be hurt by her husband's adultery, she's not made of stone. But the Dornish are known for being very passionate people, she would be more understanding of her husband's actions than most women. The Blackfyre rebellion happened because King Aegon IV made it abundently clear he preferred his bastard son over his trueborn son, to the point of spreading rumors that his wife had been unfaithful and his trueborn son was actually fathered by someone else. I don't see anything like that happening this time around, Rhaegar wouldn't try to claim that his son Aegon was fathered by someone else. He's not a hateful person like King Aegon IV.
@@cosmopeaches2604 again, difference between open pursuits of other partners as a prince , and going behind everyone's back to have an affair that helped kicked off a war leading to a child who could be competition for her children.
@@meri5173exactly . If somehow Aegon II died in HOTD , Jaehaerys would have been crowned King not Aemond
One problem with the initial argument for the change in the timeline; the North, Vale, and Riverland forces arrived shortly after Robert lands the killing blow. If Rhygar takes his time to win, then the North hell bent on vengeance will arrive the the Vale and Riverland troops before Robert could be killed.
Not to mention the if Rhygar does kill Robert as you say his men are in disarray and would be unable to stop the fresh troops from sweeping them from the field. Rhygar is almost certain to die if he engages with Robert. For Rhygar to win he has to hold back and when the North, Vale, and Riverlands arrive fall back and fight a series of running battles to keep the Rebel army after him and blind to it's terrain until Rhygar can get a field advantage to counter the larger force of the rebels.
We can't forget Robert was too badly injured to continue the war and Ned Stark became leader of Robert's Rebellion. Therefore the rebellion's name would change. If Robert died as the war was the insult to the Stark family foremost. Lyanna was taken, Rickard and Brandon Stark killed by the king. The Starks and the North have the most reason for war. Not Robert. Robert was the loudest voice over the insult of Lyanna's taking. The result of this change would be a name change and a great council to choose a new king. Tywin would be afraid to deliver kings landing like he did if Robert was dead because Ned was married to Catlynn and Ned was know to be a quite and kind individual. Tywin wouldn't be able to marry Cersie off to Ned nor would he risk Ned's unknown reaction to the underhanded tactics we have in the books
Why do people take Dorne's chill nature as incompetence. Their Society basically hinges on "we are all people but we all have our places". Oberyn and Ellaria where in love had four kids and could not get married bc she was a bastard. Dorian loves his nieces and adores his daughter's friends but I doubt they got the same level of treatment she got in captivity and it's seen in their individual punishments which were more severe than Arianne's.
Also how's Martell is a prideful house there is no way that you're not going to feel slighted by the birth of Jon passion or not his birth brought a war that could have killed their princess and her children and did kill one of their princes. They will never let Rhaeger make a Deal that incentive the North or elevate them over Dorne
People seem to have the strange opinion that in dorne they accept everything around sex, gender and bastards.
So logically elia will have no problem with rhaegar getting a second wife and from this wife a son that is a real threat to her own sons right to inherite the throne.
She would love the boy because ...in dorne they let bastards inherite their parents seats
Daenerys mother would probably still die giving birth to her and Cersei has a profecy that she will be a queen until replaced so she could be a likely third wife to Rhegar.
The prophecy would be different because this is a full timeline shift
I really like this video! There's just one thing I think is almost definitely incorrect: Elia's opinion on the matter would probably have no bearing on the potential annulment/plural marriage situation, and it could potentially be considered legally valid. It might be considered dubious for other reasons, but not because of her stance on it.
Should it? Yes. But in a legal sense, her assent isn't required. The marriage laws of Westeros are largely religious, so most likely it would just require a high enough religious leader. It's also likely that there's an established process for this (Renly expected Robert to set Cersei aside for Margery, implying there is a procedure), and it would probably require the High Septon to be involved. It would likely require proving some defect in or transgression by one of the parties, since it's unlikely that no fault divorces exist in Westeros, to whatever their version of an ecclesiastical tribunal/court is. That only requires one party to get involved. Also, public announcement may not be a requirement and may have been held off on because of how fractious everything was at the time. But if there were paperwork and documents showing that the High Septon had agreed Rhaegar could set Elia aside prior to him marrying Lyanna there likely wouldn't be legal grounds for anyone to object, including Elia.
I don't actually think that Rhaegar married Lyanna in the books, my personal theory is that she didn't want to marry and he (as part of his ongoing effort to groom a literal child, wtf Rhaegar) agreed that she could become something like an official lover/favorite and any of their children would be made legitimate either by his father or by him once he became king. But let's say he did. There are a couple options for how things went down:
Illegal/unrecognized ceremony: Rhaegar basically pulled a Maegor and went "let's do a Valyrian ceremony," which no part of the country lawfully recognizes. Basically everyone would consider them not to be married and Elia to be his only wife. Elia's opinion would be moot.
They got married in front of a heart tree with no other preperation: first men culture does historically allow for plural marriages, as does Valyrian culture. Unless there are specific non-ecclesiastical laws specifying that you may have only one spouse, passed by a Targaryen monarch, this would arguably be a valid marriage (also, GRRM has made statements implying such laws do not explicitly exist). It would also probably piss off the entire Faith and they would declare it invalid, at which point it becomes a question of how much support Rhaegar has and how willing he is to lead the country into another civil war over all this. (Interestingly, you could also make the argument that Lyanna was the equivelent of a "salt wife," which gives fewer rights than being a "rock wife" but does mean her children wouldn't be bastards. To the Iron Born, anyway, although I doubt the Faith would agree with that either). In this sort of case, Elia's opinion would still be relatively unimportant, since there's no indication that any of the relevant cultures require the assent of a wife to her husband taking other wives.
They were married with the consent of/by the High Septon under the doctrine of Targaryen exceptionalism: this would make it a fully legally valid plural marriage, although some elements of the Faith would still raise a stink about it. Lyanna would be considered Rhaegar's fully legal wife, and it's less likely there would be a civil war. Elia's opinion would likely not be consulted, and it's likely she would not be informed until afterward if at all.
Rhaegar set Elia aside, AH edition: Rhaegar in the longstanding tradition of "I have power and money so I'll do what I want" put pressure on the High Septon to agree to set Elia aside because he really wanted to marry someone else. This would probably be closer to a divorce than an annulment- this would mean he was no longer married to her, but his children were still his legitimate heirs. Elia possibly should have been informed, but Rhaegar was throwing his weight around so she wasn't. It is unlikely her not knowing beforehand would be sufficent to overturn the seperation, although it might if there are protection laws in place for wives or if she could prove that the accusation levied against her was baseless. Of course, she would either be proving this to the High Septon who agreed to it or to the king, so she may not have much luck, but she might have some legal recourse.
Rhaegar annuled his marriage to Elia: this is AH version 2, electric boogaloo. Since annulling a marriage is functionally undoing it altogether, Rhaegar would basically need to prove the marriage was never valid to begin with. This would make his children illegitimate, outrage a great many people, and be unlikely to work at all. Elia's opinion on this would be largely irrelevant, since it's proving the marriage never really happened properly (since she's given him children, it's unlikely that it would be voidable). "Was the marriage legally constructed?" is an objective test, and her views wouldn't be relevant to it. Nor would she necessarily need to be informed, since such a pronouncement is less "you are now divorced" and more "our bad, you were never married" which wouldn't necessarily require notification.
The only remotely sensible option- Rhaegar set Elia aside for cause: Renly expecting Robert to do this to Cersei implies that it is a procedure which can occur (if likely a highly involved, expensive one that is only available to the very rich/powerful). We don't know what grounds exist for it, but the most likely ones are: infertility, failure to perform marital duties, adultery, and possibly certain types of crime (like treason) as well. Elia gave Rhaegar children, and we have no reason to believe she cheated or commited treason, but she is likely failing to perform her marital duties. It's stated that more children would be impossible/kill her, making it unlikely they're being intimate and possibly going back to the infertility angle. In this case, Elia might need to be called upon to be asked if she is actually no longer able to have children/denying her husband his 'rights,' but statements from other trusted members of the community (like the Grand Maester) would probably be sufficent. If the High Septon were convinced this was the case, he might agree to annul the marriage. She might have needed to be notified in this case, but there probably wouldn't be a requirement for a public announcement and things would have been kept qquiet because of the rebellion.
I also feel like it's worth noting that if Elia's options were "certainly die (probably in childbirth)" or "let your husband marry someone else," she would probably choose the latter. A husband does have rights to his wife in Westerosi culture, and Rhaegar could have pushed the matter on the hope his third child would survive even if she didn't. So even if her assent/notification was required (which is unlikely) she probably couldn't do much to fight it anyway.
ETA: some of the Fire and Blood stuff apparently implies it's a king's perogative to set a wife aside? In which case it would have to be either Aerys or one of his many Hands. Which is entirely possible, given that one of those Hands was Jon Connington. But in that case, Elia's opinion would be even less of a factor since it'd basically just be based on the will of the king rather than an established legal or ecclesiastical custom.
make a what if Aegon V didn't die in The Tragedy of summerhall, and had managed to hatch dragon eggs, let's say 3 dragon eggs to make it interesting, how would that change history from that point o,n with no one dying in summerhall and dragons returning to the world?
What would suck is that he would probably have given one to young Aerys. He wasn't bat shit insane. Imagine him later on, as King and dragon rider.
@@dang2320 you're right I haven't thought about that but maybe he wouldn't turn crazy, because in aegon V would rule for much longer
Aerys really went batshit crazy when he was kidnapped. I find that hard to imagine happening if he was a dragon rider@@dang2320
@@dang2320cruel as Maegor, not as skilled a killer, and a far smaller younger dragon. I bet he’d have taken his psychosis out on the small folk instead of landed lords, since he wouldn’t have the support of as many powerful yes men as early.
When you said the last parts of this video, I remembered what Viserys said. “The belief that we control the dragons is an illusion.” So yes, the dragons might not be useful. If ever, they might only make things worse with the night king’s undead on this timeline.
I mean Rhaenyra’s father Viserys
I always thought Jon’s name in the book would be Rhaegar the second
Huh an idea I’ve literally never heard before, I’ve heard Daeron, Aemon, Jaehaerys even names like Daemon but never Rhaegar because that wouldn’t be his name, never in asoiaf history has a father called their son their own name at least if I remembering correctly, it just isn’t a trend like in own history
@@cosmiccollie5032kind of makes sense though since he thought he literally Was the main character and that his third child would be Azor Ahai/ The Chosen One so in an act of arrogance Rhaegar II doesnt sound too far fetched.
@cosmiccollie5032 the umbers, they're both named Jon, they're just called greatjon and smalljon to differentiate between the 2
* What if Jace Velaryon lived?
* What if Ned Stark accepted the Iron Throne, instead of Robert?
**HotD spoilers
I imagine a little speech from Jace like have won Greens this is the end for you. (Except for you auntie). In BW Meg Style
You should lean into the scenario with multiple part. Show how Rhaegar could use his sister and brother to secure more alliances and the 16 year prep to the long night.
Or the alternate Dance of the Dragons/Blackfyre Rebellion that can result from it. Heck, you can even throw in the YG plot in the books to spice it up.
Ooooh this needs a part 2 and 3!!! :D So many things would change!!!
It was more than Arthur Dayne & Gerold Hightower at the Tower of Joy. That’s just what they depicted in the show. Another Kingsguard, Oswell Whent was there in the books.
I really enjoyed this one!
It seems weird to me that Rhaegar was hiding with Lyanna in Dorne, in a tower near the main road, and managed to snuggle a person (most likely related to Hightowers somehow) to marry them but Elia’s family or even Elia herself (who knew about Rhaegar’s obsession with the prophecy) didn’t know about that abd even allowed it.
I suspect they knew. Perhaps the reason why rhaegar needed so much time to return to the capital was that he had to reasure the martels that aegon would stay his heir?
The only note I really have is the army’s reaction after the death of Robert. In the og timeline the rebels were outnumbered by about 5K, I assume that because of Robert’s death and the rebels being routed at least in one flank or the center, their losses are at about 3-6K which means after the battle they have about 329K or at best 32K, compared to the Targ forces who I’d argue still suffered more losses because of how the rebels had managed paced themselves in the river, so they had 40K to start with and are now at around 32K I’d say (losing 7-8K) but as mentioned with the arrival of Walder Frey and his additional 4K to the Targs. The numbers after the immediate aftermath of the battle are roughly 30K rebels vs 36K Loyalists, sort of similar to the number difference before the battle, however now the Stormland lords are the biggest issue, the ones who had sided against Robert will most likely flee to their Holdings or seek pardons, the Die hard lords should most likely try and lift the wife of storms end to save Stannis and Renly. Which means the rebels are like going to lose anywhere between 4-9K men do to the Stormlnaders panicking, keep in mind these numbers made sense since Ned only came down with a little over or slightly under 10K men, since as we see with Robb in the main story it takes long for the north to mobilize, Jon Arryn likely has the largest contingent, probably around 12K after the battle of the trident, and Hoster Tully famously did not have the entire Roverlands with him during this rebellion so he probably has the lowest numbers out of all the lords, especially since many riverlands Lirds will also most likely be seeking pardons by this point. So in short yes the army is crumbling and smaller than it was, but I don’t see any possible way the remaining lords don’t fight to the death, otherwise they’d all be dealt with by Aerys and that’s a fate worse than death.
Ok I like Jaharys for Jon, but Valerion? Best name I’ve heard so far. Well done 👏🏻
So basically, Rhaegar would have LOTS of cleaning up to do, and mistakes to amend for. Yeah, Rhaegar winning would've led to quite something 😅
I still feel the whole Rhaegar/Lyanna BS really was handled extremely poorly from every angle. In what universe did they think this would've worked wonders without a hitch? Absolute morons
I disagree about Ned's reaction... he actually was never angry or mistrustful of Rhaegar. Robert and Brandon Stark (Ned's brother, the one who strangled to death while watching their father get burned alive) were the hotheaded ones. Ned also knew Rhaegar, at least a little (enough to ponder to himself in the books that Rhaegar wasn't the type to frequent brothels), and if he knew Rhaegar well enough to know that, then he knew Rhaegar well enough to know that he wasn't mad like Aerys.
I imagine that Ned's feelings when Lyanna was supposedly "abducted" by Rhaegar, were feelings of confusion. The anger only came when his father and brother were tortured to death for a completely imagined "treason." But Ned never held that against Rhaegar, or Lyanna. He loved Lyanna... and he knew perfectly well that she was never in love with Robert. Nor was Robert truly in love with her... he was in love with the _idea_ of her, but Robert imagined Lyanna as some sort of beautiful angel, when she was actually... a lot like Arya. That's how she's described in the books... Arya's compared to Lyanna a _lot._ Not even remotely what Robert believed her to be.
Anyway... Ned's war was always against Aerys, not Rhaegar. Aerys is the one who slaughtered his brother and father. Upon learning that Rhaegar had a plan to remove Aerys, Ned would be all in.
I do like that you touched on the plan Rhaegar had to remove his father, btw. Though I wish you went into more detail about what you think that plan may have originally entailed.
If Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar then she has my full sympathies, but if she went with Rhaegar willingly then she is a fucking hypocrite for judging Robert for having bastards then she turns around and runs away with another womans man and has a bastard of her own.
PS: Rhaegar can not have two wives the targeryans are not allowed, they can marry siblings but not have two wives, so jon would still be a bastard.
Lyanna was 16 when she died, only 15 at most when she was kidnapped/left, and he started making moves on her when she was 14. Rhaegar was 22-24. If he told her he and his wife were amicably seperating because she couldn't have more children and he needed more (a spare at least), that he was in love with her and would marry her/make her children legitimate, etc. that would likely have seemed reasonable to the literal child he was grooming.
There is also a world of difference between "man who goes after every warm body in a skirt" and "man who is divorced." Even if divorce isn't much of a thing in their culture for obvious reasons, it's not out of the question that Elia would be fine with Rhaegar keeping a lover and legitimizing her kids (which seems like a more likely agreement for the two to have reached in the books) and Lyanna being willing to go along with that.
Plus, even if she did initially go with him willingly, she still wound up being essentially imprisoned either way (Ned's dream isn't reliable, but the Kingsguard refused to let him in when she was calling for him which seems fairly telling. It's also likely they either didn't tell her what was going on or refused to let her write/do anything to try and clear up whatever misunderstanding there was)
It would be no surprise that a guy who thought it was reasonable to effectively groom a young teenager and isolate her from her family probably also lied to her.
PS: They aren't supposed to have plural marriages because it upsets the Faith, not because it's necessarily illegal.
But more relevantly, if he set Ellia aside then he would no longer be married in a legal sense and could take another wife. It's unlikely and difficult to do, especially since she's given him children, but in actual history it has been done at times when a woman can't/won't perform her 'marital duties.' Given that another pregnancy could kill Ellia so she wouldn't be joining him in their marital bed, and that as prince he could pull some strings with the High Septon, it's not inconceivable that he could have done so.
Not by the Rites of Westerns but maybe throw the Northern Rites it's another thing or by the Valyrian Rites like we saw on the show
@@robinarkell7221Elia was from the South I'm quite sure she was there XD
@0predaking0 She would likely be OK with him having a lover, but having one too openly might undermine her status in court and legitimising the children (especially sons) might be an issue.
But also, the point is kinda moot. It's highly likely that Elia and Lyanna never actually met, and given all the sketchiness going on, Rhaegar might well have lied/exaggerated/assumed without actually checking with Elia. My point was more that a sheltered 15 year old who thinks she's in love/is looking for any out would probably believe him when he said that his wife was okay with this because she's from Dorne. Lyanna probably knew little but stereotypes about Dorne and may not have realized all the courtly bs ways this could be a potential problem for Elia, so it'd seem plausible to her.
Targaryens follow old Valaryan customs of marriage. The faith allows it due to the Doctrine of Exceptionalism.
If Rhaegar killed Robert I think Ned and Jon Arryn would retreat back to the North and the Vale. Both kingdoms are pretty much invasion proof unless Rhaegar gets a dragon or three. So I agree Rhaegar would use Lyanna to negotiate an end of hostilities with Ned. Rhaegar wants to be king of 7 kingdoms not 5 so he’d have to negotiate to get a United Kingdom to face the Long Night.
I wrote an entire fanfiction about this.
Basically, it opens with Rhaegar rebuilding Summerhall. The main characters are Tyrion, who in this timeline is an innovitive genius. Dany, who gets held hostage by the North, and Rhaegar's kids who end up developing Rhoynar water magic from their Martell side. Ned and the Starks begin as the "bad guys" but end up doing so to try to spurn the realm into battling the rising White Walkers.
It's a good read, ngl. Rhaegar actually does get killed by Robert, but gets brought back to life. Rises like a zombie and stabs Robert from the back.
I don't think the war would have ended right there. Which means Lyanna probably dies before any of that Ned plot you have gets done.
If Rhaegar would have defeated Robert a cool nickname for him would be Rhaegar Demon slayer.
Here another take:
Rhaegar realizes he didnt get his visenya but a second son instead. Confuzed how the prophecy doesnt fullfil itself rhaegar thinks through the whole thing and realizes that the conquering trio had the same parents. So he names jon orys -after aegons half brother- does not acceot him as his true born son and decides to try and sire a third child with elia despite the warnings of the maester. When this fails he starts to assume a conspirocy against his family, after all hoe else could the prophecy fail? In the end he becomes similar paranoid like his father and a second mad king is born.
Ned in this scenario will take orys with him to the north, neither helping nor rebelling against rhaegar, while dorne will do nothing because aegon is still rhaegars heir
What if Jace and Luke were born girls and married Aegon and Aemond?
19:30 There is a theory(I think it was In Deep Geek) that the reason Rhaegar spent the first part of the Rebellion in Dorne was to negotiate with Doran for an annulment to Elia so he could marry Lyanna. Doran agrees as long as both of his grandchildren have primacy over Rhaegar's child with Lyanna
Rhaegar stopped being loyal to his father before Robert’s Rebellion started.
When Aerys was held hostage at Duskendale, Tywin was willing to let him be killed, knowing that Rhaegar would become king in his place, which he openly said in front of Rhaegar and the others present.
If Rhaegar had survived the Battle of the Trident, Aerys would still have been deposed after all the cruelty and murder he committed.
Man can’t wait for what if Ned lived or what if Robert lived
Or even better what if Jon Arryn lived
I need this prequel TV show now w vid ✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿
(Reads title) ah, one of my fav Crusader Kings’ A Game of Thrones timelines
I can’t help but hear “Aeg! Aeg! Mother is looking for you!” (😢 I adored Maester Aemon Targaryen)
Rhaegar did not "seemingly" kidnap Lyanna. A kidnapping charge does not evaporate if the underage child voluntarily gets in the van! Lyanna was 16 when she died, and the war between the rebels and royals lasted for a year, with considerable time passing between Lyanna being taken by Rhaegar, and the outbreak of the fighting. First Lyanna disappeared. Then Brandon found out she was taken by Rhaegar, so he rode from the Riverlands to Kingslanding, where he was imprisoned and his father summoned to court. Rickard made the long journey from Winterfell, and was murdered along with Brandon, Aerys sent word to the Eyrie demanding the murder of Robert and Ned, and Jon refused, and rebelled, summoning his vassals and troops to fight, which began with Gulltown, where the lord in charge refused Jon's summons and sided with the crown. There would have been talks and negotiations, attempting to get him back on side, before they assaulted the city. And then, there is a year of fighting, culminating in the sack of Kings Landing and the murder of the royal family, after which Ned rode south to Storm's End (and as we see in aCoK), moving an army that distance takes some time, and Ned is specifically contrasted with people who rush headlong into action. After Storm's End was relieved, he then rode to Dorne, almost certainly stopping at Starfall, to learn where Lyanna was being held (Jon was nursed by a retainer of House Dayne, and Arthur Dayne's siblings would be the most likely to know where in the mountains of Dorne he was hiding out with a pregnant woman). Only after all this had transpired, did Lyanna die with Ned at her side, at age 16.
The long and short is, Lyanna was WELL below the age of consent when she went with Rhaegar. Rhaegar DID kidnap Lyanna, regardless of how willing she was.
Part 2 we need it
People center too much on Robert's wrath. But what about Ned's wrath? The king and his court killed his father and older brother. Rhaegar, an adult kidnapped his 15 yo sister and impregnated her. Don't underestimate his wrath. There is no reality in which Ned wouldn't take the place of Robert if Robert died on the Trident. The only difference is that Ned would be a better king.
I'd also wonder whom Rhaegar would pick for Aegon and Rhaenys, since they are alive, and he really needs to stabilize the realm. Or Viserys, since he'd reach marrying age sooner than them.
Aegon and Rhaenys would likely be expected to marry each other. Both to secure the bloodline and because it would stop any Dornish complaints about competing claims (since she's older and would inherit under their law- it's unlikely there would be actual conflict over that but better to keep it from being an issue where possible). Rhaegar also clearly believes in magic bloodline prophecy stuff, so it'd make sense that he wants to hedge his bets just in case.
Viserys is iffier, but my guess would be Margery. He's 6 years older than her, but that isn't an uncommon age gap for a political marriage, and she would either already be born by this point or be born soon after. There also aren't any other major families I'm aware of that have a daughter in that age range, so it makes sense.
@@robinarkell7221 For a moment I forgot that Targ are Targs XD
@@akechijubeimitsuhide XD yeaaaaah...
It might make sense to spread them out for alliance marriages, but the targs be targing
Big Note here, Dorne would not be mad if Rhaegar had a bastard nor were they care if Rhaegar had a lover besides Elia. Dorne is literally the only kingdom that would not care. Elia would likely be angry, but they would never divorce.
In fact, it can be argued if Rhaegar did ascend to the Iron Throne that he would pass progressive laws like the Dornish have. Rhaenys might be chosen as Queen over Aegon.
I have one question WHO married Cersei in this time line I think that Is interesting I personaly think the best marridge posibility in Tywins eyes Is Stannis and that Is, oh god ,somethik very interesting
Please comment
More likely, he tries for Oberyn again. A prince isn't as good as a KING, but still probably preferable to the younger brother of a recent traitorous rebel and whose house probably only narrowly avoided getting destroyed.
Failing that, likely a lesser lord from the Westerlands or possibly a Tyrell (Willas doesn't have a confirmed age, and would be notably younger than Cersei, but might still be workable). Again, Stannis probably wouldn't be a great match politically speaking, so there's limited utility in marrying her off to him.
Willas Tyrell maybe? Perhaps Edmure Tully or a wildcard option like Rodrik Greyjoy or Oberyn Martell.
Maybe she elopes with Jaime? With the Targeryans ruling she might be able to pull it off.
Robb & Daenerys, Aegon & Sansa, Valerion/Jon & Margaery Tyrel, Rhaenys & Jamie, Viserys & one of Oberyn's legitimized daughters. Rhaegar remarries Ellia. Name Oberyn as the Gold Cloak Commander.
This strengthens the ties to the North, reinforces the ties to Dorne, provides influence & favor in the Reach, Westerlands, Dorne, and North for Targaryen families. Need to figure out a way to bring Stannis and the Vale back into the fold. Name Jon Arryn Warden of the East, Tywin - West, Ned - North, Mace Tyrell - South. Name Stannis Lord Paramount of Storm's End and Master of Laws on the small council.
25:30 also rickard stark married his first cousin lyarra
Ned found 3 kingsguard knights guarding his sister, you forgot Oswell Whent who was in the series, while Gerold Hightower was left out
with rhaegar being king I don't think he would be a great king like daeron II, I see him being an above average king, and i think ned should be the hand to reduce tension between the north and the throne, i think this is one of the best what if´s that you made
Turns out very interesting
I'd love to see what if Jon Aryn or Ned Stark had successfully exposed Cerci and Jamie's incest.
A group of my friends are running a GURPs RPG in an Alternate GOT Universes where this happens.
We have a full write up on how things would of changed.
The idea of this is interesting.
Now I want to see this what if?… scenario in an animated series
Not even going to mention what that scumbag Rhagar said to Ser Jamie right before he left for the trident??? He clearly had big plans...plus you're wrong about Khal Raget turning out to be a good lad, he was a Joffrey the 1st long before the rebellion...Barry the bold Ser Jamie and others seen that boy wasn't right and definitely was his father's son. It's actually the main reason why Ser Barry hid his identity at first when he joined up with team dany. He wanted to be damn sure she wasn't her father's daughter and didn't show the same glaring signs that varys did
The only way that the Targaryens could have won the rebellion would be to create chaos within the rebel ranks. It is really astounding that there isn't any single Northern house that remained loyal to the Targaryens, so in a way the only house that I can think that would be a suitable ruler of the North for the Targaryens would be House Bolton. For the Riverlands, it would be a tossup between the Whents and Freys, and it's this kind of rebellion where a Red Wedding like scenario would happen that will not look like treachery.
Another thing too in this case can be what I'd call a boldest pro-gamer move, would be for Tywin to engineer a match between Cersei and Roose Bolton, if the latter hasn't married already. Having a pro-Targaryen Northern house with marital ties to the Westerlands would be enormously beneficial to the Crown
Westeros without dragons means one thing, the Wall won't be destroyed that easily, and the Battle of the Wall would be a great scene...
Oh boo, I love you. But you need to look at Dorn with a bit more openness. Dorn is not traditional, they may not have an issue with R taking a second wife. And Ellia may have be totally fine with it. Loving someone is NOT holding them down. ❤ I recommend reviewing In Deep Geeks reviews of this.
Thank you!! I was thinking the same thing
I do not think Rhaegar would kill Robert if roles were reversed in text.
I think Jon’s real name would be viserys
One thing that always trips me out was that once things were spinning out of control why didn't Lyanna go back and set things straight but i assume Raghar didn't let her leave
Also, the dragons actually have a REALLY high chance of still hatching. Illyrio gave those eggs to Dany as a wedding gift...not Viserys. This was planned well in advance, as he had to aquire them. And...he was already part of a group trying to get Targaryen rule back in Westeros. So he was already a supporter, and has little reason not to. He more than likely would still attend whatever wedding Dany has and still give her the eggs, somehow accidently hatching them, if not purposely if he stumbles on info.
Than she just has to have more luck than all her ancestors who basicly did the same thing like her in the books minus the witch.
Also wouldnt he give the eggs to aegon or rhaegar? Dany would be only a princess marrieng in the best case viserys since rhaegar would defintly let his son marry his sister
@@CorvoThan theres a theory that the women targaryens were the ones with the power to hatch the eggs, not the men. It explains why he gave them to Dany and not Viserys, despite backing Viserys' claim. Its possible they would be given to any Targaryen, really, I just assume theyd still go to Dany since there was no reason not to gift them to Viserys in the first place, so mustve been for a reason.
Keep in mind all of her ancestors who tried didnt have eggs, and were also men. They werent trying to hatch dragons, but create one out of themselves. It doesnt take luck to see why that would fail.
@@Rhaenarys sadly there were quite a few male targaryen that had their eggs hatched before the dance. Take rhaenyras children. It also wouldnt make sense that valyrian culture is seemingly still a patriarchat. Atleast if we go after targaryen inheritance-tradition prior to the conquest.
Further when there was in world such knowledge than it wouldnt make sense that a non-targaryen would know this but no targaryen themself.
Further grr martin said himself that dany managing to hatch the dragons was a lucky series of circumstances which she wont be able to repeat. Since this theory is based on the only resurecting hatching of dragons happening by a woman, this seems to contradict it.
So that theory seems to me nothing more than a fancy way to claim that "the women in the targaryen family were the truly special ones" than an serious theory.
(Also the premise is wrong. There were many attempts at hatching eggs. Only in harrenhall they lost their last ones)
@@CorvoThan all eggs were hatched in the presence of women, including Rhaenyras childrens eggs. Regardless, i admit its a theory. It just seems to have more support when you consider tge fact there was no reason to gift them to Dany in the first place, and NOT Viserys, considering he would have much more use to them, and as youve said, why not the one with the claim?
Its not exactly unreasonable to think someone in Pentose or on that side of Essos altogether to have possible knowledge of how it may be possible considering the Valyrians, Targaryens included, came from Essos to begin with, so not like the people of Essos were clueless about dragons and have never seen any before. The people collectively in all the years have seen way more dragons, many were even slaves of the dragonriders at one point, than all the people ever lived in Westeros, as even though there were dragons, not to the same number.
Point is...thats a LOT more experience and knowledge to pass down through the generations to be all forgotten, unlike with the Targaryens, were the knowlegde easily couldve been lost after the Dance. They didnt have a lot of people sharing this info back and forth, not a lot of families sharing dragons, and pretty much killed each other completely, the sides that did have dragons. Its a fact the less people in a group to have some information, the less likely of that information being shared to the next generations. So the chances of people on Essos having knowledge on dragons that Dany and Viserys never got is actually pretty high. Especially when you consider its also highly likely those dragon eggs are the ones stolen by that one girl years before the Dance of Dragons (dont have my book in front of me, and admittedly suck at remembering names in general, not helping my brainfart. Alyssa Farman, i believe?)
Those egss have been around Essos for a while, and with people who had money...and knowledge. After all, Illyrio works with the master of spiders. Its not like gaining info isnt part of their gig. So the chances of them having some sort of clue or knowledge the rest of the Targaryens didnt have is still high.
I dont remember any eggs after the Dance that didnt hatch and either die sickly or immediately get killed, ill have to check that. And wasnt too many attempts after that, and those that were done had to do with wildfire. Dany had special dreams and instincts telling her to put them in the fire. Not wildfire lol. And yes, it was a combination of magical events going that wasnt normal for dragon hatching. But...thats not to say they wouldnt have hatched on their own later. And nothing about that says that Targaryen women cant have a special gene or whatever that makes the process happen, that isnt based in some magic.
To be clear, i simplified the theory heavily. A good part of the theory is based around genetics and having a certain x chromosome with the trait. Hence why not all women Targaryens can do it. And only a few. It could be Dany had a single gene, the theory requires 2 to work, hence female, and the magic aided the other "gene" or acted as it. This also takes into account that despite some mistakes, Martin does take a special interest in genetics and often pushes genetics and the importance of in his stories.
But yes, it is just a theory, (a game theory! Sorry couldnt help it there lol) but the main reason it fits is because Illyrio gave Dany the eggs...NOT Viserys. We should be asking why not, if the idea is he would give them to Rhaegar instead. After all, Illyrio was betting on Viserys up until his death. And even with "Aegon" in the books, he didnt give them to him, either. Why not?
I think thats what people should be asking.
@@CorvoThan also, just to be really clear, its not my theory, so I might not be representing it 100% accurate, but to the best of my ability. Its not so much saying women are the truly special ones, unless your idea only women give birth in general makes them truly special. It just acknowledges the fact that women are the ones that bring life, not men, and that xx chromosome means youre the sex that brings life into the world. Theres way more to it like the dragon bonds and magic used to bond them centuries before even the Dance, when Old Valyria was still the big dog, and even before that. It covers a lot of history, and also doesnt necessarily even claim anyone has knowledge of it being the reason it happens, buts notes whenever a dragon is hatched, a female is always present.
I can see why when i explain it it comes off as half cooked, because i didnt make it. I can only explain it to the best of my ability.
I wholly disagree that the Rebellion would have died with Robert. Jon Arryn rallied the banners after Aerys demanded Ned and Robert's heads, and they were fighting to avenge Rickard and Brandon Stark and rescue Lyanna. If anything it would have been called Jon Arryn's Rebellion and Jon would probably reluctantly have to take the Throne with Ned as his Hand.
I do really appreciate how you explain how Viserys (probably) wouldn't have ended up (as) crazy if his life was different
What if Dany and Jon still fall in love in this timeline? I mean they've grown up together. Would Rhaegar let them marry?
ASoIaF is a world of magic and destiny. I agree with much of your coda, Lyanna's son wedding Sansa, etc. However, like bad pennies, R'hllor is going to make those dragons show up somehow.
I think that Rhaegars ofer to marridge Is that Aegon married Sanca and if Sanca married Jon I think that Aegon married Ariana Martel or Margery Tyrel or maybe some one from Dayne dynasty
Would still be hard for the targaryens to win.
They only had the crown lands, dorne, and the reach (which is usually divided)
The rebels had the stormlands, riverlands, north, and the reach.
It means the rebels have 165k and the loyalists 150k (if they can muster all the reach manpower)
So a battle on the trident were the rebels only had 40k soldiers won't be to devastating
The bigger thing would be exactly what happened in our time line what to the Lancaster's do and the other lords on the rebels side (i.e. sneaky like the Frey's)
27:10 and even with all of that dangerous mentioned he was good to her when they were younger
Jon(valerion) would be trained by Arthur dayne that would be interesting to see. Also Robb and Daeny would be a better match, I think, but Jon and sansa makes sense to help appease Ned
What if Lyanna Stark didn't die in childbirth?
Sorry about the multiples... this is on a totally separate note. Regarding Elia... there's actually a widespread and very credible fan theory that Elia _did_ give her consent to Rhaegar having a legitimate child by Lyanna, and was totally ok with it. Polygamy is not foreign to either the Targaryens or the Martells... and Rhaegar was obsessed with having three children, but Elia couldn't have any more children. And her own children (both of them) would still have primary succession according to the rules of both the Rhoynish and Targaryen dynasties, so the third baby wasn't a threat to them.
Isn't "Robert's Rebellion" a retronym?
Why wouldn't Rheagar marry any of his other children to the Starks instead of the one child that is cousin to them? It would make more sense to bond Starks and Martells by marrying one of Elia's children instead.
That way you can write Jon x Arya's bond as a secret Balerion x Arya "forbidden romance" instead and maybe have it echo R+L. Plus it just makes more sense to marry Sansa to the heir apparent or Robb into royalty if what you fear is that the North might try to separate.
It was a retronym. It was only because they chose Robert to become king. In reality, Jon Arryn initiated the rebellion
Lets go finally covering beyond HoTD
If it was rhaegars rebellion Lord Tywin see an opportunity to make her daughter a Queen. He joined with Aerys and tyrell army supported him. A marriage pact was occured between Cersie and Viserys. Rebellion will continue.
Viserys would be behind rhaeagar and his kids. Also tywin prefers rhaegar to viserys
@@fightingmedialounge519 Rebellion was changed. Rhaegars Rebellion. The rebellious prince and his son had no inheritance. It will end in one sides victory. If Rhaegar failed that means he died and his sons are cut away.
@@sankarkrishnan407 except most people preffred rhaegar to areys. So it's not really going in the latter's favor. So my point still stands.
Actually it was 3 Kingsguard. Gerold Hightower, Arthur Dwayne, and Oswell Whent.
In the original story Ned goes from the trident to kings landing and then with a small delay in kings landing to the tower of joy. How could Ned go from the trident all the way north to at least moat cailin, most likely all the way to winterfell and then BACK down to the tower of joy in dorne in the same time.
I feel like marrying his daughter to Robb, or Dany to Robb would make more sense, and finally complete that promise Jace made in 130ac 😅
If Rhaegar had put Viserys in the faith so he didn't have a rival to deal with, and he legitimized Jon/Viserion... Then rebuilt Summerhall..and say granted it to him so he'd have land to inherit, then yeah also marrying Jon/Viserion to Sansa would then make more sense instead of to a landless youngest son.
Hard to predict the young Ned. He was much more of a hothead but was also under the tutelage of John Arryn. Also in this scenario I wonder what brother Benjin ends up doing.
Can you make a long night/undead battle sequel for this video? Whether it be with or without dragons. I’m sure many of us would like to know what you write. Thank you
When is part 2 with the bronze dragon Maegor.
Yes!!!!
I love how the answer is just “hide in the north” so you’re taking a vale, northern, and river land army into the north? Btw it’s summer but you gonna feed that army? The north had already been stripped of men to fight? Also I love how that means Jon Arryn is just chill with letting go of the erie? The tullys letting go of river run? Even temporarily that would have never happened these are ancient houses! The frays just give up there bridge and what live in a temporary castle in the north? Unrealistic that’s all I mean.
The only way for Rhaegar to win the Rebellion is that the Rebellion was his rebellion agaisnt Aerys II, and it would require him leaving Robert and Lyanna betrothal alone.
How about what if Ned never went to the tower ?
What if Ned protected and watched over dany and vis ? And mybe Jon and dany also vis grew up together mybe in the north as well .
Even if he hadn't annulled his prior marriage it could have been legitimate by the precedent set earlier by Aegon the conquerer having two wives.
What if lyanna stark lived
What if Rhaynera died to infection from her wound on Driftmark
So your doing other what if scenarios besides hotd, then in that case could you make a what if video if i had a son with my first wife Ceryse Hightower after our wedding night.
robert's love for lyanna is great in show, the way he speaks of her. but in the books, he had at least one bastard in that time, so so he love her so much that slept with other woman and fathered a child. so my theory is she found out about that, got offended and chose rhaegar.
Dragon eggs get given to Faegon (the blackyre) young Griff. He coomes to Westaros with 3 dragons and the golden company. Cleans their clock!
Oh okay, this is a show version...of what if. I was about to say, there is a lot of information and controversy missing here lol.
Why would Lyanna ask Ned to come meet Rhaegar? What on earth makes you think that she was still on Team Rhaegar? Why was she being held in a tower under guard if she was still willing to side with the man who took arms against her family, who did nothing against the king who murdered her father & brother? He request to be buried beside them pretty clearly speaks to where Lyanna's loyalties lay. As does the fact that she was a prisoner when Ned found them. Lyanna would be telling Rhaegar "If you want to meet with my brother, go to him, kneel at his feet and beg his pardon for the MURDER of our father and brother! Otherwise, get fucked, I'm not writing your stupid letter."
Oddly enough i have a friend and his name is Rodney. His younger brother's name is Rodney. Both named after their father. And they are only like 2 year apart so idk what their mom was thinking. Same middle names too if i remember correctly.
You know another what if I think about is: What if Cersei married Rhaegar instead of Elia
Jon would have been king because Rhaegar’s marriage with Elia was annulled, Lyanna was the rightful queen and therefore her son would be heir.
Yes the citadel had documents to prove the marriage happened. It was in the show.
stannis would not stop rebeling, killing his older brother would honorbound him to avenge his brother the head of the house. thise are older inate laws, just like how he followed robert even though he never loved him.
I thought maybe Rhaenys & Robb would make more sense
Don’t the second sons get summerhall? Probably rebuild it if they do, can’t remember
The only way Rhaegar wins is if he takes Arthur Dayne with him to the Trident. Rhaegar lives, Dayne and Robert kill each other in the greatest 1 v 1 in the history of the 7 Kingdoms.
Jaime being released from his Kingsguard vows, by a king or prince regent, who also tried to set aside his marriage vows and name his bastard his heir, would utterly destroy public trust in the institutions of Westeros. He'd go down in history as Rhaegar the Oath Breaker, or The Foresworn. If Rhaegar is just going to do away with every oath, every permanent bond he finds inconvenient, how can anyone trust he will uphold the things they rely on and trust to be lasting?
And Jaime would not find the City Watch an acceptable job. It's where you foist off younger sons and brothers and bastards. As in OTL, Tywin would give that job to a Lannister loyalist, but not his eldest son & heir. That's a position for Gerion, or Stafford or one of the Marbrand cousins. If he keeps Jaime at court, it's going to be on the Small Council. Much more likely is that Jaime is sent back to Casterly Rock to govern the West.
The idea that ANY of Aerys Kingsguard are true and noble knights is a joke, and completely at odds with the message and themes of the story, which is that a family, title or skill at arms are the not true measure of a knight's honor, but how he keeps his vows. Arthur Dayne suppressed commoners who resisted the Targaryen tyranny, and he faithfully guarded a madman, doing nothing to intervene when Aerys tortured nobles to death, killed people without trials, proclaimed men guilty in absentia for the crimes of their families, and sexually assaulted and abused his wife. He did nothing when Aerys murdered servants and retainers for imagined crimes, and he cooperated with Rhaegar taking a 14 or 15 year old girl away from her family, locking her in a hidden tower and having sex with her until she got pregnant, and he kept that girl imprisoned in her tower, resisting to the death letting her brother come to her. Arthur Daye, Gerold Hightower Jon Darry, Lewyn Martell and Oswell Whent are pieces of shit who fail to match even the minimum moral standards of Jaime "Sister-Fucker" Lannister. He chucks children from tower windows and is STILL possessed of a stronger conscience than his brothers of the Kingsguard.
Okay, I’m gonna try this, y’all tell me what you think:
Viserys- pledged to Lyssa Tully or Cersei Lannister
Daenerys - pledged to Robb Stark or Renly Baratheon (I like the idea of Robb better)
Aegon - pledged Margaery Tyrell
Rhaenys - pledged to Renly Baratheon
Baby V - maybe Sansa Stark
Or Aegon could be pledged to Sansa and Jon to Margaery.
Not doing anyone younger because there could be more children - like if Viserys and Lyssa had children. Oh could you image those nightmare children.
The problem with Sansa being betrothed to Viserion is the same problem of him being named heir: hes still a bastard. Rhaegar would have to do a LOT of work to make it a worthy betrothal in Neds eyes, as well as Cats. Ned would be insulted, after still being angry, because he would...as Rhaegar would become the new Jaime for him...and would NOT accept. Rhaegar would have to give up the sibling marriage tradition and betroth Aegon to Sansa instead.
Or Viserys to Sansa, as hed still be alive and fine. Maybe a lot less "crazy" too, as he wouldnt have to go through all that trauma that got him to that final point.
@@Rhaenarys technically he wouldn't still be bastard in this what if as rhaegar immediately legitimized him.
@@fightingmedialounge519 like i said, he would have to do A LOT of work to raise new Jons station high enough for Ned and Cat, the party still more than likely very angry about the past, to accept it. This means somehow making new Jon, or Viserion, a warden somewhere, displacing another house. Wardens usually married their kids amongst each other, hence why the cousin marriage wasnt so taboo. The Starks probably would have to reach out to lesser houses eventually, but not for Sansa, the first born daughter. Even Arya is more fit for a wardens son over a lesser house.
And theres no way Ned would be so willing to make peace that easily. Ned would already be extremely POed when finding out his sister ran off and got rhe family killed. She might even be disowned at that point, being seen as the Stark wh0re by most of the realm, because sexism was still alive and well in this world. Simply legitamizing Viserion wouldnt change all the anger and hate Ned would feel for Rhaegar, as like i said, Rhaegar would be the new Jaime, but on another level as Rhaegar dishonored the Starks personally. It would take a lot more than simply legitamizing him.
Sorry. I tend to ramble on sometimes about GoTs topics lol. Its one of my special interests.
@@Rhaenarys again doesn't necessarily have to be a warden. Again he would have been legitimate pretty much immediately. The issue arragment is purely their personal feelings regarding the targaryians. Also I doubt ned would disown her considering he still very much cherish his sister in the show depsite knowing it was a consensual affair with rhaegar(the books are different matter).
@@fightingmedialounge519 im speaking purely off of the Starks personal feelings. The story changes entirely if he lives and Robert dies...and its all revealed she left willingly with him, and couldnt even tell at least Benjen in regards to feelings. Lyanna is no longer the victim of an evil and cruel regime, shes a willing participant in the bloodshed that cost her father, her brother, and her betrothed lives, all of which Ned loved dearly and wouldnt easily forget. And then theres the question of honor. His own honor might force him to disown her because she dishonored the family that way, and caused that much trouble. Again...she got her dad and brother killed. He might still blame Rhaegar more, but knowing she let it all happen will leave a horrible taste in his mouth, and might push him to not even recognize the child himself, in that way, disowning her.
Which is also why the betrothal wouldnt happen. Because Ned himself wouldnt see the child as worthy simply by being legitamized. And with Cat there to help insitgate problems, they both wouldnt sell their first born daughter so cheaply. And again...i am speaking on their personal feelings on the matter, not necessarily the realms. I just dont see Ned, with Cat, agreeing that easily. The better arrangement would be Aegon to Sansa, or his daughter to Rob.