The things I do for views... Here's a link to the playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLIrZsx9CxvcFZT1UMwGT1y3yK4t5AbjuS.html Patreon link: patreon.com/mylittlethoughttree Instagram link: instagram.comlittle_thought_tree
I wouldnt describe jaime pushing bran as impulsive move I mean he was shown looking at cersei who clearly wanted him to push bran when jaime first grabbed bran andpulled him up cersei went what are you doing then she went he SAWus and gave him a look which reminded me of how the maester said cersei gave him a look that said to kill jon "“He saw us,” the woman said shrilly. “So he did,” the man said. Bran’s fingers started to slip. He grabbed the ledge with his other hand. Fingernails dug into unyielding stone. The man reached down. “Take my hand,” he said. “Before you fall.” Bran seized his arm and held on tight with all his strength. The man yanked him up to the ledge. “What are you doing?” the woman demanded. The man ignored her. He was very strong. He stood Bran up on the sill. “How old are you, boy?” “Seven,” Bran said, shaking with relief. His fingers had dug deep gouges in the man’s forearm. He let go sheepishly. The man looked over at the woman. “The things I do for love,” he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove. Before Jaime pushed Bran out of the window, he looked at Cersei. He loathed the act but still pushed Bran out of the window. Cersei is known to make her point without saying the words. There is another example of this. “Yes,” he [Pycelle] wimpered, “yes, Colemon was purging, so I sent him away. The queen needed Lord Arryn dead, she did not say so, could not, Varys was listening, always listening, but when I looked at her I knew. It was not me who gave him the poison, though, I swear it.” "
You should analyze the SUCCESSION characters! It's one of the best shows ever, and the 5 biggest characters, Kendall, Logan, Shiobhan, Roman, and Tom are all incredibly complex and interesting. This is a family drama/comedy, so it's already in your wheelhouse😃
Sibling rivalry is a western trope to prevent incest and auto try to pit bro-sis against each other and ASS-U-ME parents make love a test competition. The other KNOWN psychological factor is sibling LOVE CARE PROTECTION from inner family(domestic mental/Tywin/ or physical abuse) and outside forces and when no other outlet for NATURAL developing sexuality is around the twist of familial love care need to protect turns into a more sexual one. FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC look it up on Wikipedia. It's why early humanity was highly incestuous with small roamimg family tribes until bigger communities could happen. Why small towns(USA south inbred jokes) and island nations like Britain are lamblasted as incestuous because of class system forcing keeping family wealth within family.
He does. As someone who was brought up with trauma, my biggest reason to oppose the idiotic and often bullying authority figures in my life was trauma. Not just at realizing how disappointing they were for not protecting me when I needed them to, but for enabling further abuse by my peers. I wasn't to dissimilar from Jamie. I often met their arrogance with cynicism, rage, impulsivity, sometimes violence, and a false front of arrogance just to unnerve and disturb them and keep them out of my way. I had no issue with reminding them that for all their institutional authority that I was someone who didn't have a plan and didn't care for the most part what became of myself. I was sick of being their mascot in public and their victim behind closed doors. I loved reminding them that I could have cared less if I'd just decided to take no more of their shit and beat the life from them that I would have. I was a child with the strength of a grown man by the time I was ten. I was paraded as one of the "good ones" among children with autism and then constantly held under the threat of cruel punishment if I did not develop on demand. I was a windup toy to my teachers. I love teaching. I was a mentor to children in my hometown. I love lecturing and teaching people about new perspectives, new skills, and more. Knowing that so many of my teachers were violent, petulant bullies was just one more nail in the coffin of my ideals. Watching them disgrace everything I loved being as a kid just broke what little was left inside of me. Jamie is the cynic born of every broken idealist.
@@ericschuller908Made up story by a narcissist btw. “Every single person around me my entire life failed me!” You’re the only common denominator. Displaced blame for lack of success. You probably just had aspergers and were incredibly awful to be around
@@PastLifeVillian, maybe it's just the autism in me, but what possible reason would I have to lie? I don't get people like you. This kind of skepticism is warranted given how my story is told, but not your hostility and name-calling. I'm a lot of things: a hothead and an asshole in my own right, but not a narcissist. I really didn't have a single person I truly trusted. My school life felt like a series of interrogations and punishments for when I couldn't mask at all times of the day and I didn't exactly handle myself right. I couldn't communicate and when I tried to. I had my attempts nitpicked most of the time when I was struggling to speak at all, much less when I had people literally screaming in my ears for shits and giggles just to see me fall on the ground writhing in pain from the shock. I just wanted to be left alone back then. The details of what I would do at the gym were engraved in my mind because, aside from learning to drive, it was the first time I felt free and self-empowered as a kid. Oh, and by the way, the autistic community for the most part rejects the term aspergers given that Hans Asperger was a eugenicist prick. I swear, the way you shit-talk, it's like chatting with one of my old bullies all over again.
@@youngnat im dyslexic as fuck +ADD so its kinda hard for me to keep my focus on reading. also having someone read to me almost feels like being a kid getting a bedtime story which is some cozy vibes
Something to add; After Jaime is shaved bald and grew a beard at the start of ASoS, he is saddened to think Cersei will be angry that he doesn't look as much like her anymore at his eventual return to King's Landing
You just made me think of how Cersei is also shaved bald, just later on, in AFfC. They don't lose their hair at the same time, but now my mind is kind of blown
@@iateabagelonce They also came out the womb with Jaime holding her foot. He loses his hand and Cersei steps in a pile of shit during her walk of shame, my guess is that her foot will be infected and have to be amputated symbolizing their bond being destroyed.
It never struck me until now- The reason Jaime never mentioned why he killed the king was because then he would have to reveal there was a cache of wildfire in King's Landing. With all the families, and their feuds, the change of political power over time... Someone would find and use it if it wasn't kept secret.
It's so very ironic and sad... the bravest, most selfless thing to happen in main ASOIAF timeline was done by a kid who went on and hated himself for it. What Jamie did went beyond "honor". He threw his own name in the dirt to protect thousands. Thus is the hypocritical nature of this world. The man who deserves the most praise, gets half a page in the White Cloak Book of bullshit. Honestly, what other knight in hundreds of years has been the most chivalrous? Jamie mocks Ned not only because he is an ideal he thinks he can never match, but because he saw what Aerys did to his father and brother, was disgusted and properly terrified and was the only man in that room to eventually do anything about it.
That is not why he killed him, he killed him because his dads army was at the gates and he would face no consequences for his actions. He was no Knight, he would only make a stand when he was safe, without consequence for his actions.
@@rickstalentedtongue910 I don't mean to be rude, but you might want to reread/rewatch that bathhouse scene with Brienne again. Jamie was the only person in the throne room advising the King not to let his father's forces into Kings Landing because they would sack the city. Pycel convinced the King to open the gates for Tywin, which panicked Jamie. The gates were open, the King had a change of heart and decided he wanted to burn the entire city and the invading forces with wildfyre. He also demanded Jamie should go out and bring him back Tywin's head. The Pyromancer was summoned and was about to go blow up the entire city. Jamie killed the Pyromancer and then he killed the King. Jamie killed the King for many reasons. He would have been safe just waiting for his father's forces. Aerys was hardly in a state of mind to notice Jamie hadn't gone to fetch Tywin's head. The Wildfyre plot is what spurred him to action. He was tired of watching this crazy person be given absolute power.
The problem with the 'Wear it like Armour' philosophy is that you take what the world says about you and keep it with you. You then carry it with you yourself always and can never move past it because it's YOU that's keeping it. It can protect you, but it can and will weigh you down as well. It's a short term solution and not something to be done in the long run.
You can’t really get over being a dwarf in a world that considers you an abomination. So instead of ignoring it he accepts it but then sharply points the cannon back at the person hurling insults and bigotry because they aren’t ready to be taken down socially by someone they consider a lower being than them, while he constantly deals with that prejudice. He’s heard Imp so many times that being called that from a common born wouldn’t phase him. Not saying it’s the healthiest but it’s gotten him farther than any other strategy. And also I think he’s more affected by how his family mistreated him rather than the mean words said about him. If his father showed him a shred of unconditional love, he wouldn’t be going down the dark path he’s on. (in the books at least!)
Tyrion who says it, is definitely the kind of character to say that and mean it for that reason. He means to hold resentment. He’s a very resentful spiteful individual shown in his own actions. He is like Arya, he doesn’t forget.
Jaime is a brave knight who slew an evil dragon and fell for the most beautiful woman in the realm… just the minor inconvenience that the dragon was a king and the woman was his sister 😬
You probably won’t read this, but if you do I have to admit this is super insightful on the take of the knight, dragon and princess. It’s just a messed up version of it
another way brienne is a beautiful inverse to jaime is that she feels everything very fully and very obviously- wears her heart on her sleeve. If i recall correctly, Jaime eventually gives up on teasing her because he feels there's no sport in it- she's simply too vulnerable for this to be fun for him. P.S. would love to see a brienne video when you're done with the lannisters
Although he was considered an adult by Westerosi standards, Jaime was still in his teens when he killed Aerys iirc. If he was afraid of repercussions, if when he saw Aerys's monstrosity and didn't know what to do until Tywin was at the gates, it's only natural. Why should he be so selfless as to not worry about his own life? Particularly at so young an age? It's a big ask. In terms of speculation, I read Cersei as an abuser. I suspect she pushed Jaime into experimentation early as a means of taking power over him. We know that Cersei always had a struggle where she envied the perks that went along with Jaime's position as the son, not the daughter. Manipulating Jaime so that she had power over him, could dominate him, might have allowed her to maintain a sense of herself in the face of seeing Jaime advance in the world to a position where he stood to be taken seriously by someone they valued (Tywin) and she did not, simply by virtue of Cersei's sex.
I very much agree. One of the important distinctions I never stress enough is that just because Jaime might feel guilt, or others might judge him, doesn't mean he isn't justified or totally understandable. He was young and should've been able to look to the other kingsguard for advice and support, instead he was forced to eventually go against them. And yeah, that's a good point. I need to discuss their ACTUAL relationship and dynamics more in Cersei's video
Reinforcement for the selfish scheming Cersie, after the prophecy of Maggie the frog, and knowing that her valonquer (little brother) will strangle the life out of her, she always had that dread over her. So to eliminate the risk, she manipulates Jaime by seducing him and getting him wrapped around her finger in the guise of love. That leaves only Tyrion whom she loathes to dispose off.
One thing about Jamie in the books (in regards to his kids), in a pov chapter after joffery is dead, Jamie feels nothing. He considered them to be more Robert's than his. He goes so far as to think he can just give Cersei more kids. It was pretty cold.
The thing about Joffrey is that Jaime holds no empathy for him because he was cruel, he resents Cersei for allowing him to be cruel too. I can't recall right now if he knew of how Joffrey mistreated Tommen and Myrcella but he did know his oldest was not a nice kid and didn't hold any love for him for it. It is pretty cold of him to say that, but given how Cersei gave him no chance in even being a friendly uncle to his children, it's not surprising :/ In comparison, he does care *much more* for Tommen and Myrcella. In ASOS (i think?) and AFFC he tries to be more present for Tommen, but the moment Cersei catches that she immediately sends him off to the Riverlands lmao
For all that Jaime is one of my favourite characters, it is still too easy to forget that... no, he has not actually committed to "redemption" yet. Jaime is still very much intwined with systems of violence, of corruption: he has distanced himself from the people most dangerous to his psyche but this also prompts him to direct all blame to said persons: Jaime could very easily continue to shift any & all responsibility for his actions unto Tywin, Rhaegar, Tyrion, Cersei. Jaime could also very easily sabotage the relationship between he & Brienne by attempting to replicate the early relationship he had with Cersei: assigning Brienne as his minder and conscience, her successes as his, his faults as hers. While Brienne is now physically more powerful than Jaime, in all other ways (wealth, authority, allies, age, "experience") he has the upper hand. The dynamic between Jaime & Brienne is an exploration of chivalry: what is beautiful, what is monstrous; what is honour and when does its concept stop serving its purpose; oaths and vows, the limits of fealty; gender roles; the hypocrisy of "righteousness" being achieved through violence (this is something most explored in Brienne's chapters and imminently relevant to Jaime's, as he finds an identity outside "twin" or "warrior"). The psychology of Jaime is fascinating but it is very, very easy to praise him whilst demonizing Cersei: it is a habit I myself often fall into. This study & Cersei's reminded me, again, of that habit & how very far Jaime needs to go, introspectively, before a redemption is truly possible. Assuming he survives long enough to have one, of course.
Some of what you're saying sticks, but his character arch is about becoming his own man. Everything he once dreamt of was given to him by the people who wanted to control the course of his life. When he lost his right hand, he lost his remaining use to authority besides acting as an even more hollow placeholder for the Kingsguard of which he is now the leader. Importantly, there is a chapter in which he stands before the Kingsguard record, and reflects upon the position, and his responsibility to it, which he now more strongly identifies, in spite of everything. He is already committed to taking responsibility for himself, because everything he does reflects upon the highest position of knighthood, which thanks to Brienne, he now believes is possible, and is inspired to uphold. When his hand was severed, his tie with Cersei was irrevocably altered. She is disgusted with his stump, and he is no longer attracted to her person. So, there is no going back for him, and his behavior has changed to mark the man he now wants to be: The Leader of the Kingsguard. He exhibits unreal discipline in training with his left-hand not merely to be able to defend himself and those he loves, but because that is how he feels about the responsibility of his position; committed.
I’m so happy that George changed the original outline and gave us this Jamie instead of the stereotypical villain. His redemption arc is great so far, and I love me a grey character. He and Tyrion are my favorite POVs
This has been my favorite GoT character analysis so far. Jaime really surprised me by going from someone I thought I would hate to my favorite character, with the best arc and chance for redemption. I hope GRRM does him justice, unlike how the ending of the show undid every bit of growth he had.
Jaime swore an oath to catelyn that he would never hurt any of her blood so him breaking the drive of river run was him keeping his oath not dishing out justice.
Yes, he actually used his infamy to end the siege peacefully. Telling edmure that he would launch his baby in a trebuchet. He thinks like Tyrion and Tywin here and keeps his vow to catelyn in mind. People get mad for Jaime saying this to edmure, but he said what needed to be said to take riverrun without any bloodshed. He uses his dishonorable public persona to actually do something honorable and keep his vows
This is a great point about Jaime not knowing what he wants. He thought he knew what he wanted, but every time he got it, it was horrible. So perhaps he thinks that he literally DOESN’T know what he wants because he hesitates to decide for himself what is good for him because his decisions lead him to all these horrible things.
But everything he thought he wanted was a manipulation made by someone especially Cersei. Jaime only wanted to become a Kingsguard because Cersei promised they'd be together only for this to completely backfire and separate him and Cersei again and leading Jaime to go through the darkest most traumatizing moments of his life. Then once again Jaime is Kingsguard only to now both cuckold and be cuckolded by Robert for Cersei.
What you say about relationship and rivalry between twins. Is ACTUALLY spelled in the books. but from Cersei point of view. Jaime and Cersei live in a very unfair gender devided society for women and Cersei narrations shows a strong resentment towards Jaime for him being a boy, she hides it under honey words and how much she "loves" him. But I think Cersei genuinely hates Jaime to some level. Far greater (Or equally in the best case) than what she says she loves him.
I agree that she hates him on some level. I also agree with the actress, Lena Headey, who played her: I think she wants to be him. She's always thought she would've been a better warrior than him. She even says during the battle of the Blackwater that she'd rather be out there fighting. She definitely resents him purely for the fact that he's a man and was therefore treated better in this society. I think part of her even thinks he's weak because all of his actions were to just stay with her rather than go be the rightful soon and heir to Tywin that she believes she would've been if only she'd been born a man.
The best thing about Jaime’s backstory in my own personal opinion is that it’s kind of like an old Greek tragedy in away, Jaime saved an entire city…but he is tragically is viewed as (and later sort of ends up later) becoming the villain.
Jaime also saved himself and his father and his father's troops by murdering Aerys. He could have killed the pyromancers (no one would have cared), grabbed the king and locked him in a room with a gag on his mouth and thus prevented the wildfire explosion. By the way, was the wildfire just left untouched to be misused later? Was it the same wildfire that Tyrion used in the Battle of the Blackwater?
@@brain_snakes I don't vilify either of them; but Jaime and Tyrion's actions were motivated by self-interest as well as possible concern for the populace. Tyrion's life would have been forfeit if Stannis had won, also Jaime's life and very likely those of Cersei's children (all of whom were family members Tyrion loved, with the exception of Joffrey). Jaime may have wanted to save the people of King's Landing, but he knew that he would die, as would his father and the Lannister troops, if Aerys set off the wildfire.
This was an excellent video. I think Jamie's character is one of the most interesting in the books. I think the reader can go from seeing him as a cold-blooded villain to understand some of the things he's done and feeling empathy for him. It's quite an experience.
Yes, about the difference between Jaime and Cersei, I think it does have to do with Jaime's status as heir. Even with an absent father, as heir Jaime would have more access to adults capable of helping and educating them, be they servants, master at arms, knights, bannermen, and friends. And if we know anything about Westerosi culture, it's that Cersei most likely grew up like Sansa was. With a Septa and a friend. Which, in Cersei's case, Cersei possibly killed her. This situation or difference in upbringing between boys and girls could also be seen in the relationship of Lannister boys and their aunts/uncles. Jaime and Tyrion are the only ones with fond memories or relationships with their extended family, Cersei, on the other hand, seemed to have grown up almost isolated, probably because of Tywin and his view of her more as a political token. All of Cersei's memories of her uncles are during large gatherings, and her opinion of them is a repeat of Tywin's opinion, or something formed in her adulthood. While Tyrion, for example, had conversations, he sought and found affection in them. Like Jaime, although this one, unlike Tyrion, did not seem to need his extended family to supply Tywin's lack of love, possibly because he had everything that his status as heir gave him, plus Cersei.
There is no doubt that Cersei killed Melara, but I can't really feel bad for her growing up without her in that case. She also had a friend named Jeyne (like Sansa). Sansa would have had several friends at Winterfell and possibly Cersei did at Casterly Rock. Cersei has memories of her Aunt Genna. Cersei also had a "string of bedmaids" once she and Jaime slept separately, but none of them lasted long because she didn't like or trust them, despite her dislike of sleeping alone.
Thank you for this video. Ever since I first started reading GoT at 13 years old (can't believe it's been over a decade!) Jaime has been by far my favourite character. It felt strange that despite there being characters whose morality (Ned), intelligence (Tyrion), or a combination of those (Jon) I really related to, I kept rooting for the guy who seemed like one of the most evil characters in the book. I personally struggle with the trauma and low self-worth that seems inherent to growing up a gifted child with undiagnosed ADHD. As a child and teenager, I always knew I was brilliant, but the world seemed determined to drag me down. I still remember one moment when I was in 5th grade. The grade average required to finish with honours was 4.75. I looked down at my certificate of graduation. 4.74. I had a 5 from almost every subject, a couple of 4s... And a 2 for behaviour. Had that been even a 3, I would have realised my parents' dream of me graduating with honours. But no. It felt so unfair, and on top of many other slights, I started feeling that the world hates me. So I hated the world in return, laughed at it, pretended not to be bothered by anything and not caring about anyone. I was a sarcastic twit, joked all the time, ridiculed everyone who tried to accomplish anything. I never put in any effort. I just coasted on my above average intelligence. I think that is why it was so easy to relate to Jaime. His humour hiding his disappointment and hurt. His journey of opening up to Brienne was beautiful. It took me years after reading these chapter to go on this journey myself, but when I did, I often did feel as if I was Jaime, talking to Brienne, finally being real for the first time in years.
Another thing I would like to add is that the loss of a limb is very similar to the loss of a loved one. I know it sounds like an abstract concept to some but in my work I've seen people go through mourning for missing limbs and senses like a loved family member. It's a very deep rooted loss to lose a literal Part of Yourself and what that means for independence, autonomy, and mortality. I once had an older man tell me that there's nothing more damning to prove how human we are than having a piece of your body die before the rest of you as evidence. But I suspect they're also could be some insight or personal growth in that experience. Not to imply that trauma is required for growth of course (I hate that trope tbh) but I think in losing his hand Jaime was forced to explore the other parts of himself outside of his knighthood and what the Knighthood was symbolic of. Hands are also symbolic of our professions in a lot of ways after all. My best friend is an occupational therapist that reteaches people how to physically function & live their lives again after severe accidents or health declines, and she's noted several times before that it's interesting how a change in physical functionality often translates to new perspectives and insights about ourselves by being forced to move through the world in a new way.
I also find myself thinking about how Jaime had to stand by while each of the queens he was to protect were being raped & beaten by the kings he was to protect- how much worse for him when it was his sister/lover/mother of his children.
Part of the whole "ending the war without bloodshed" thing is because he swore to Caitlyn never to take up arms against the Tullys and their allies again, and he is trying to keep to that oath.
@@thefaramith8876 First, you have to admit your mistakes. Show me where he did that? Or maybe he never made mistakes? Or maybe his mistakes were not what I am pointing out?
Damn, I didn't realize how much I related to the Kingslayer until most of this breakdown applied to me. Clicking on a MLTT video always means I'm gonna end up questioning some things about me life. Pointing out that Jaime is the middle child made a lot of things connect. I think the whole twins aspect is interesting, I'm not a twin but me and my older brother are very close and I think growing up I formed a lot of my identity around being the younger brother, following whatever he was doing and supporting his wants more than my own. One of the problems with that was once we were adults and doing our own things I was faced with finding a new identity for myself while not only being used to following someone else but so used to supporting their needs that it's been challenging to even know what I should be doing for myself. I feel like that's kind of where Jaime ended up. You can move past the people you were putting your identity and direction in, and you can decide what sort of person you'd like to be, but then it's challenging to know what you can do from there to actually live out that identity and you end up just kind of passively going with the flow hoping you come across an opportunity to do what you think you should. But like we see with Jaime the problem with that approach is the opportunities that come up are usually small and insignificant, he probably wants a chance to do something big but doesn't know how or what without someone to give him that direction.
I always loved Jamie’s character! You did an awesome job of explaining the psychology behind him and his motives at point that really made sense to me as a reader
Have to point out, Jaime dream happened when he slept on a weirwood tree stump. A magic tree. It’s quite possible it’s not all his imagination. It’s probable someone sent this dream to him.
Jamie is such a great character for most of the series. And Nicolaj is an amazing actor, great at playing a villain, which is why I want him to play Doctor Doom in the new fantastic four films.
well george has said hes exploring redemption with jaime so i do think he is on that road. in fact i suspect in winds (if it ever comes out) hes going to be faced with a lot of the questions you posed. especially considering he will be meeting lady stoneheart the woman he wronged and failed the most. i suspect bran, the edmure trebuchet situation, the red wedding will all be brought up. even brienne’s injuries considering he sent her on a quest that was meant for himself will all put a lot of things in to perspective for jaime and send him down a new course.
Theres a scene early in the first book where Ned tells Robert Jaimes a monster because he saw him sitting on the throne, and Robert laughs in his face.
I would love to see Jaime get his redemption and have him end up a hero, but i don’t see it happening. He’ll come to the realization that he’s just not a very good guy and he’ll make peace with that and possibly embrace it or he’ll die before he can really make a big change or he will be redeemed and he’ll go out a hero, but everyone else will believe he was a monster. I’m keeping my fingers crossed he gets a happy ending or at least finds peace.
I have personal experience with dissociation. I think of my dissociated state as going into the storm shelter. I’m stuck in a small space but I’m safe from the storm that is raging outside.
Most tragic thing about Jaime is contrast between what he knows about himself, and what world know. He falls into denial of his true idenity not because he don't want to be honourable and righteous. He deceives himself, because he want to fit into the persona that was created by opinions about him.
I just finished my bachelors in psychology and I think your channel might be my favorite therapist based one I want to be a therapist myself and I love trying to figure characters out
After watching this cements Jamie as someone who I fully consider a person who wants to the right thing but he just unfortunately doesn't understand what that actually means. It's tragic
I enjoy these videos so much despite not being a reader of the series and you make me want to read the books; I will however not put myself through another Wheel of Time and risk the author dying before the series is complete.
First off, I want to say: I love this series of videos about the Lannisters! They've been my favourite characters in the book series and your insights are really interesting. I can't wait for your Cerei video. I think if Jaime immediately became moral and just, it would come off as a little too easy. He's had a lifetime of growing up a Lannister, both in the sense of how he sees himself/how he wants to be seen and also how he deals with others ie. the river lands. My impression is that he's still really unsure of who he is and what his place in this world is and, like any of us, wonders how he'll be viewed by others. His interactions with Hoss is interesting, even though he acts outwardly like he doesn't like this kid, he seems to want to learn from him. If he was satisfied with the way he was, I'd be more concerned but he's clearly not happy doing the bidding of Cersie in taking Riverrun or with having to interact with the Freys. He even abandoned his duty without any hesitation to help Brienne.
I think you see him as Lawful Good, battling his inner moral compass due his turns and desires. I see him as Lawful Neutral who has inner battles not due to what is good pr bad, but by he deviated from his own code of chivalry.
13:22 I think that’s a little harsh on Jamie sure it was impulsive but that’s because Aerys order the pyromancer to blow up king landing and kill over 500,000 people so he can’t exactly plan it out if he only had minutes to decide.
Oh no, it's not a criticism. Planning was made doubly hard because the other kingsguard showed him no support. There's nothing wrong in the impulsive approach, sometimes it's exactly what's required BUT it's still typical of Jaime
44:29 yeah, she says so enough in the books. He got a sword and she got nothing, and from that day on she was left with septas and carers and he was taken on as heir. He was taught he could be worthy and how to get to that point, she was taught she never had much worth to begin with outside of marriage. It makes sense she has the darker mindset, and would want that control over his mind.
I dont think Ned haunts Jamie just because Ned was a honorable man. I think Jamie actually looked up to Ned, Ned was the embodiment of everything Jamie wants to be. Honerable, respected and renowned in battle. And Jamie sat back and did nothing to stop him being killed at the hands of his tyrant son. Just like he sits back and does nothing to defend himself. I think thats the reason Ned makes such a huge impact on Jamie next to everyone else. When everyone else calls him kingslayer he has a Easier time shrugging it off. But when it comes from people like Ned and Brian. People who embody everything he wants to be, it cuts him very deeply. In his mind he probably sees it as Honorable to keep the truth to himself, taking responsibility for breaking his oath dispite the reasons. But his desire to want to go down hlin history as a Honorable man leads him to confide in Brian about why he actually broke his Oath. He confided in the one honerable person like himself who history will likely judge unfairly due to her gender.
I hate the argument about Jamie waiting too long to kill Aerys. He was like 17-19 (I can't remember specifically); I know that's an adult by their standards but the few years he'd been on the kingsguard before that, he was SO young, and the adults around him were all looking the other way and telling him to do the same. I know Jamie's not a totally good person, but he's one of my favorite characters because honestly I think he's got a stronger sense of morality than a lot of other characters, it's just HIS morality.
Your Lannister videos are so thought-provoking, even beyond ASOIAF & literature, this one probably even more so than the first two! I suggest you make one on Kevan after Cersei. I've always found him very interesting,both different &similar to his kin and a fair bit like jaime. What a psycho(logical) gift this entire family is! Btw, i've only now realised how similar Jaime is to Tyrion(&cersei).Apart from his recklessness,arrogance &sarcasm, I've always seen him as the least Lannaster-ish at heart . Thnx for opening my eyes😁😳🤯🖤🖤🖤
good analysis. I have speculated whether the dreams about Eddard Stark maybe a foreshadow of a future book, as there is the possibility that as the winter reaches the Stark castle all the dead starks including Eddard will reanimate (placing him and his wife of opposite sides of the conflict). I have always liked the symbolism of the hand and fingers imagery in the books too. Related Jamie Looses his hand Tywin was the hand and Jamie separates from the hand and its influence, including the sexual imagery he distances from Cersei, Being maimed he moves closer to Tyrion. I wonder if Jaime is less cold than Cersie because of Tyrions influence he seems the only person he could have got that early on or perhaps his mother. the new hand he has ironically he wears like armour.
I think a lot of people in this modern world today can relate strongly to "going away inside". That's a large part of what makes A Song of Ice and Fire so compelling, no matter your preferred genre. Dragons, wights and fire gods aside, and gasp all you like, but it's just humans being humans.
I kind of loved idea that Jamie outperformed Tyrion in few battles. Sure you can read the books all you want, but practice is a whole different beast which made Jamie beat Tyrion.
This keeps reminding me I really need to pick up ASOIAF books cause the characters go through a lot more and it's interesting. Plus I'm sure I won't be disappointed Jaime's development in the end compared to the show (super disappointing). The length of the books is a bit intimidating. It makes more sense to me now that he was conflicted a lot, protecting the King of fulfilling the promise. And learned he watched traumatic stuff when he was in the kingsguard. I understood why some of the stuff was cut in the beginning of GoT for the first few seasons (we don't count the last ones) and didn't see much of him dealing with his internal conflicts and unfulfilled flaw. I so can't wait to see your video on Cersei. And hope you can do one of Brienne eventually
The problem with the show is it struggles to convey the internal monologues and struggles characters go through in the books, as it's operating from a third person perspective. Tyrion for example only mentions Tysha a few times, but thinks about her constantly. The showrunners struggled to convey this in tv format and so eventually dropped it, to the detriment of Tyrion's character. This especially affects characters who put on a front for their true personality, such as Sansa, Jaime and Tyrion (uncoincidentally all having pretty unsatisfying personality arcs).
Jaime is a tragic figure really. He had a lot of going for him (discounting the obvious child on child SA - Cersei was the instigator and the dominant one), got knighted by his knightly idol, etc. And then that 15 year old became a hostage in a fancy dress to a cruel madman. And had to bear him for 2 years until that Day of Reckoning. I am fully convinced that 17 year old Jaime wasn't fully present in his mind when he killed the king, the whole thing left him with PTSD and he also never fully left the 'inside place'. Going 'inside' was his coping mechanism and I think he stayed there until confessing to Brienne. And with no other friends left to him, with judgment and scorn, it's no wonder he latched onto his toxic family, and bound himself even closer with Cersei. There was really no one else there for him. From the Kingsguard only Ser Barristan lived still but he was injured and away, and I doubt his character would make him suitable to lead Jaime through it. Ned Stark didn't bother to ask and got deceived by a mask of confidence. So Jaime had no other allies.
Calling its child on child SA is so gross. They were not assaulting each other sexually. It was wrong. But MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of children do these things and have to be taught that it is not appropriate. It is not fucking SA
Jaime is the middle child but only by a few minutes. Being the heir, he was also the oldest in a way. He would have been treated as the oldest over Cersei because she didn't count in that way. But he gave way to her because she felt (and was, let's face it) passed over.
It's an excelent breakdown but he's basic instincts can't and never will be changed. "We can't change who we love" .. coming from complex childhood trauma spacially.. theraphy can help, but no known theraphy can get that deep withouth breaking him completlly. Yes, he came to despise her but he is a man of honor and his basic identity is he'll always love Cercei.
I've always seen Jaime as an honorable guy. He just make his own code. He don't follow his vows or let anyone force him to do something chivalrous, but if something really clicks with his honor code, he's relentless and very very thorough. He jumped into the bear pit, ended the siege of Riverun without breaking his oath, because he respected Kat and a lot more. What a character...
41:06 there was a great video I recently watched abouthow if Joanna was someone Tywin loved, it was likely she wasn’t a sweet paragon of love but instead a cunning, almost shrewd lady that knows what she’s doing and how to continue the line and it’s reputation. Why would Tywin like someone who is lovely and innocent and would cry at his actions rather than one he could talk to and get good ideas from. She was obviously still beautiful but that’s got nothing to do with her as a person.
Really love this video. I think you're a bit strict with judging his acts now as mainly for how it will be conceived rather as out of guilt or for redemption or betterment. I think in a way those are tied. I think Jaime is at this point more concerned with finding himself anew. He lost his sword-hand (and with that all he defined himself as), his relationship to his twin is suffering, by that point when he's appeasing the riverlands (which defined him as he saw them as one extended person, and not just in a way to push his faults on her. Actually it's quite the opposite at first. In the beginning he seems to see her as the better part, only making a180 once he finds out about her unfaithfulness), he lost his brother, father and first born son too (who also played a part in defining him, as they pulled him anywhich way they wanted. As you mentioned, he's a bit like the glue keeping his family together, in a way, though they'Re all clashing and impossible to match, trying to keep his family happy and at peace with each other, and funnily, it's with him gone, that they implode), in a way. The only thing that'S left to him is his reputation and that's a pretty shitty one he hates. On the other hand, due to "wearing it like an armor" he has somewhat allowed the reputation to define him. He became what they saw him as. So for him to change how they see him is not just a means of bettering his own mention, it is, in a way, a part, almost synonymous with reinventing himself. And he desperately needs to. I think that may not necessarily mean redemption, I think he's necessarily seeking redemption---but he HAS to find himself. All the things that made up who he was are gone. So, he has to find new ways, and I think it'S fitting that therefore how he is seen is a natural starting point for him. So, I wouldn't be so harsh as to say it'S simply selfishly to better his image not to become a "better person" also. In that regard, I also think the order of his thoughts is a bit crucial. He does something good or right first, then comments about how it feels right, and then about how this might affect his image, and then that this might make him "Goldenhand the Just". In his own thought process the just act comes first, followed by both the emotional satisfaction he feels at it and the hope that it might change how he'S seen and thus who he may become in the future. I'm also looking forward to, whether we'll get more about his "justice". He calls it Justice when he hangs those men in the Riverlands, and he invents the moniker "the just" for himself. And he seemingly feels emotional gratification, "feeling like Justice". So I wonder if he'll try and go with that now. With Jaime you can kind of see different ethics systems failing. Doing things for Honor, Glory and Loyalty all failed him, so maybe he'll go for a sort of personal justice.
I think Jaime is more empathetic, than his sister because of Tyrion. She has no links to love other than her father who she tries to emulate. Jamie has more than just his father, He has his brother. He knows how to love, and he knows what his brother has to go through being that he’s fought on his behalf multiple times.
If there ever was an alternative scenario i would love to read, it would be one in which Jaime was forced to take the black. I think he would be resentful at first, but then start to enjoy his duties as a ranger, become at home with his new brothers who care little or less for his family name. And when the others start rising, him lending his voice to the plea to the iron throne would make a difference... At the same time: Tywin would be forced to turn to tyrion as heir. And cersei would not give birth to 3 bastards..
This was WONDERFUL!!!!! I did just want to let you know though…. Jamie and Cersei are fraternal twins, not identical. Identical twins truly ARE identical in EVERY way… even down to identical DNA. They MUST be the same sex. Every other thing about this was PERFECT!!!!!!! Thank you for all you do!!!!
I don’t like the way people talk about “redemption” for Jaime (who is by far my favourite character) because it suggests a sort of black and white understanding of morality. One of the best parts of Martin’s writing is how he captures the complexity of real life. There is no good or evil, just complicated people. Jaime is the perfect example of this. Whatever he does throughout the story he is scrutinised by both the readers and the other characters. He’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.
I have almost no knowledge on mental health and what the cause and effect of these things might be but I feel like maybe Jamie never knows what he wants as an adult because he’s never been allowed to do what he wants his whole life. The only thing I can think of that he’s explicitly stated he wants is to be with Cersei but he can’t do that either so maybe whenever he tries to think of what he wants he just rules out anything he’d actually want because he figures that he can’t have it. Just my thoughts though, great video by the way.
I agree. For being a "spoiled, rich boy" he lives in a world of no & duty. Free thinking isn't exactly a muscle he developed. Side note - I remember having almost a breakdown when at 29 I went to the store after my divorce. I stood paralyzed in the jam aisle realizing for the first time I could remember, I could pick out what ever jam I wanted. I didn't have to think of a sister or a roommate or husband's allergies or preferences. Just what I wanted. And I had no idea how to choose if I was not doing it to make someone else happy or deciding because of constraints. Then I started laughing uncontrollably to myself. I bought a handful of different ones.
I also think with twin you can get the outright refusal to separate they depend on each other so much and have such a closeness literally from day one that the idea of doing thing without the other and being individual is unthinkable
You kind of have to remember when talking about Honor and Justice in the Goldenhand section that Jaime is in a Medieval world, where your Honor is your legacy, and Justice can be highly subjective depending on your point of view. By trying to be honorable and change how people perceive him, he is trying to change what his legacy would be after he is gone- after all, even if HE knows the reason, what man would want to be known to history as The Kingslayer? Even in Martin's alternate version of history, you very much get the sense that many people, at least the High Born, view the world through much the same eyes our own ancestors would have. Many people of that strata would have viewed their 'eternity' as how men remember them, and if Jaime began to come out of the PTSD shell he had built around himself and see beyond the moment to what would come later, he may have begun to see that he had to change how he carried and presented himself. After all, if he had died instead of being captured, or when being recaptured, what sort of a legacy would he have left? If he was remembered at all, it would have been as nothing more than The Kingslayer, a minor footnote in the history of the Seven Kingdoms. In my view, he began to try and change himself to be what HE saw as an honorable knight- he may be on the 'wrong' side, but he can attempt to mitigate the damage. He could try to do 'right', in his view, while still serving the 'wrong' side, and he had to pick and choose his battles. He couldn't just sweep in and undo what his father had set up, but he COULD try and lessen the harm those actions were causing, where it was within his power. In our own history, there are many instances of men who we still remember for at least TRYING to do the right thing, even when it was difficult to do so- and all of them are flawed men in their own right. I think Jaime is an excellent fictional representation of that struggle and just how difficult it really is- as well as how much it can cost you.
There's probably a term for what I'm about to awkwardly describe, but the fit between internal identity and the various spheres of expectation in which people live is a great lens for character analysis. I feel it's tragic when people are forced to be somebody they genuinely aren't by their families and/or thier society. With the female characters, this comes down to whether or not the character is satisfied with their proscribed role of a wife...beauty, submissiveness, and fertility. Brienne obviously does not fit the expectations put on her, but Ygritte does. However, while Catelyn and Sansa are both well-suited to their roles by nature, in their experiences as noble daughters we see how expectations also lie. The fact that Ned was perfectly suited to being a northern lord lulled his family into a false sense of universality. Ned is an exception, as it happens, and even he doesn't realize this. He judges Jaime without truly understanding that reality doesn't always follow the code. Jaime is a bit like Sansa, suited to the role he thinks he is to play. Cersei's sense of identity is utterly derailed by the loss of her mother's example and guidance. Sheesh, we could go on forever...
I think one thing we should point out is that Jaime is right: the whole concept of knighthood being a special or honorable thing has always been fraudulent from start to finish. Historically knights start out as basically the armed lackey of the landowner class who could more or less do what they want, not just because they are the ones with the weapons, but also because their boss is literally the state. And then they became their own class of nobility that was basically a specialized arm of the military. That‘s what knights were irl. In-universe George R R Martin never spells this out fully because the story is told by people who overwhelmingly don‘t see it that way, but it‘s true all the same. And in-universe it should be obvious that people like Arthur Dayne and Gerold Hightower aren‘t really better people than Jaime. After all, they‘re the ones that let Aerys burn all these people to death. I wouldn‘t call them evil since, what the hell were they supposed to do, but they definitely aren‘t better than the one guy who actually broke his oath when it mattered. At the same time, while people like Tywin and Bolton and Aerys are definitely villains, there‘s not really a side in any of this that‘s fundamentally better or more humane. At the end of the day, most of the atrocities are not abberations but actually the norm in this kind of society*. And it was definitely the worst when they were fighting. *by the way, I don‘t want to condemn feudalism any more than I want to glorify it. The society that preceded it was even worse and the treatment of the peasant class actually got worse toward the end of feudalism and well into the period that followed. But we should have no illusions about this social order or the people at the top of it, no matter whether their names were Lancaster, Stark, Wittelsbach or Targaryen.
@@Candace-Loves bros before hoes. That genuine bro moment gave me more relief than a thousand lying whores. On a genuine note though... Yes of course it bothered me. It wasnt his plan though and i bet he had no idea that my lord father would pay her to gangbang half the lannister force... Cant even blame her... Its literally her job to lie and act... Blame Tywin. I honestly admire him in many ways, but that situation was his absolut lowpoint for me.
FYI: while I cannot speak to UA-cam's algorithm and how it reacts to mentions of SA, SA is also a really useful acronym that can help prepare people for triggering content in a shorter, gentler way. Using SA instead of directly referencing sensitive material is a caring thing to do for your audience. The term can help people avoid being triggered by more explicit content warnings. Sometimes even the mention of the act can trigger trauma responses. If that seems over the top, consider that even if it prevents just one person from having a trauma response, it is worthwhile.
As a identical twin the whole twin section is gross lol. I do relate to allot of what he said about twins I would say it is even worse being identical of the same gender. Often times my brother would anger my parent's and i would be forced to endure the anger to a lesser degree. I look identical to him and it is hard to seperate us when ur angry at one. It certaintly is a struggle to find your own identity when you have a carbon copy around. Now were adults and still very close of course it is a bond no one can understand. Much stronger then regular siblings and even lovers. Of course the bond you forge with your children is perhaps stronger. I would say in my experience that although a bond with your child is stronger their is still a strong bond of mutual respect between peers with one's twin and a feeling of understanding that eludes one with thier children.
I would argue Jamie knows exactly who he is, however his perception of himself and the perception the wider world have of him self are different. He’s realized it’s pointless to try to bridge the gap, because they will never understand his motivations. When he killed the mad king he was being the real Jamie who wanted to be held among the names of Arthur dayne and sir gerold Hightower. However this very act made it impossible to for him to held in the same leagues. He did the right thing and it cost him everything, and no one will ever understand the sacrifice he made. He sacrificed himself for the good of others only to be cast down for it by the same people he saved.
Funnily enough, I think Ned and Jaime are more similar than they would ever admit. Ned wouldn't hesitate to drop his honor to protect his family or innocent children. I think he would have killed Areys for commanding that the city be burned, probably in the exact same way. Ned's resentment for Jaime is misplaced and maybe some of it is due to him being a Lannister.
I think one problem for Jaime and how he is perceived is that he inevitably gets lumped in with Tywin‘s atrocities during the Sack of King‘s Landing. Jaime didn‘t just kill Aerys, at the same time Tywin‘s men committed horrific crimes including the murder of Rhaegar‘s wife and children. And they‘re all Lannisters. People just assume it‘s all the same thing, though probably Jaime does himself no favors with his attitude.
In the show he killed his cousin, in the books his cousin had his skull smashed as he fell from and was dragged by a horse while traveling with Jaime and Brienne. Jaime had thought to kill Lancel when he learned of Cersei's unfaithfulness, but decided not to. Also in the books, He had vowed to kill Tyrion, but I doubt that he will. Jaime was the only one holding the Lannisters together. These people hated each other mostly. But Jaime cared about all of them and they all cared about him.
This is apart of his character that is so often overlooked. Once Jaime was captured the entire dynasty went for each others throats. Jaime was the mediator. I wonder if he’s the most similar in temperament to Joanna? It’d make sense since Joanna seemed to also be universally liked. Jaime was the one to work out compromises between Cersei, Tyrion, and Tywin. He just kept Cersei and Tywin from interacting with eachother as much as possible. Basically told both of them to shut up about it because he didn’t want his family fighting. But without him there they immediately start taking hostages and passing open threats.
@@kekero540 That is so true. Without Jaime, the Lannisters are a bunch of people who barely get along. Cersei and Tyrion are afraid and want approval from Tywin who doesn't think much of either of them. Jaime is the one they ALL care about and he cares about ALL of them.
Jamie is best writen character in The Song Of ice and fire and all he pov chapters are very good especially pov chapters in Feast his chapters are by far best in 4 book
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I wouldnt describe jaime pushing bran as impulsive move I mean he was shown looking at cersei who clearly wanted him to push bran when jaime first grabbed bran andpulled him up cersei went what are you doing then she went he SAWus and gave him a look which reminded me of how the maester said cersei gave him a look that said to kill jon
"“He saw us,” the woman said shrilly.
“So he did,” the man said.
Bran’s fingers started to slip. He grabbed the ledge with his other hand. Fingernails dug into unyielding stone. The man reached down. “Take my hand,” he said. “Before you fall.”
Bran seized his arm and held on tight with all his strength. The man yanked him up to the ledge. “What are you doing?” the woman demanded.
The man ignored her. He was very strong. He stood Bran up on the sill. “How old are you, boy?”
“Seven,” Bran said, shaking with relief. His fingers had dug deep gouges in the man’s forearm. He let go sheepishly.
The man looked over at the woman. “The things I do for love,” he said with loathing. He gave Bran a shove.
Before Jaime pushed Bran out of the window, he looked at Cersei. He loathed the act but still pushed Bran out of the window. Cersei is known to make her point without saying the words. There is another example of this.
“Yes,” he [Pycelle] wimpered, “yes, Colemon was purging, so I sent him away. The queen needed Lord Arryn dead, she did not say so, could not, Varys was listening, always listening, but when I looked at her I knew. It was not me who gave him the poison, though, I swear it.”
"
You should analyze the SUCCESSION characters! It's one of the best shows ever, and the 5 biggest characters, Kendall, Logan, Shiobhan, Roman, and Tom are all incredibly complex and interesting.
This is a family drama/comedy, so it's already in your wheelhouse😃
Sibling rivalry is a western trope to prevent incest and auto try to pit bro-sis against each other and ASS-U-ME parents make love a test competition. The other KNOWN psychological factor is sibling LOVE CARE PROTECTION from inner family(domestic mental/Tywin/ or physical abuse) and outside forces and when no other outlet for NATURAL developing sexuality is around the twist of familial love care need to protect turns into a more sexual one. FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC look it up on Wikipedia. It's why early humanity was highly incestuous with small roamimg family tribes until bigger communities could happen. Why small towns(USA south inbred jokes) and island nations like Britain are lamblasted as incestuous because of class system forcing keeping family wealth within family.
Jamie really feels like he embodies “Inside every cynic is a disappointed idealist”
He does. As someone who was brought up with trauma, my biggest reason to oppose the idiotic and often bullying authority figures in my life was trauma. Not just at realizing how disappointing they were for not protecting me when I needed them to, but for enabling further abuse by my peers. I wasn't to dissimilar from Jamie. I often met their arrogance with cynicism, rage, impulsivity, sometimes violence, and a false front of arrogance just to unnerve and disturb them and keep them out of my way. I had no issue with reminding them that for all their institutional authority that I was someone who didn't have a plan and didn't care for the most part what became of myself. I was sick of being their mascot in public and their victim behind closed doors. I loved reminding them that I could have cared less if I'd just decided to take no more of their shit and beat the life from them that I would have.
I was a child with the strength of a grown man by the time I was ten. I was paraded as one of the "good ones" among children with autism and then constantly held under the threat of cruel punishment if I did not develop on demand. I was a windup toy to my teachers.
I love teaching. I was a mentor to children in my hometown. I love lecturing and teaching people about new perspectives, new skills, and more. Knowing that so many of my teachers were violent, petulant bullies was just one more nail in the coffin of my ideals. Watching them disgrace everything I loved being as a kid just broke what little was left inside of me.
Jamie is the cynic born of every broken idealist.
Oh wow this nails it 👏👏
Never heard it before this saying but damn looking at it it’s so true…
@@ericschuller908Made up story by a narcissist btw. “Every single person around me my entire life failed me!” You’re the only common denominator. Displaced blame for lack of success. You probably just had aspergers and were incredibly awful to be around
@@PastLifeVillian, maybe it's just the autism in me, but what possible reason would I have to lie?
I don't get people like you. This kind of skepticism is warranted given how my story is told, but not your hostility and name-calling.
I'm a lot of things: a hothead and an asshole in my own right, but not a narcissist. I really didn't have a single person I truly trusted. My school life felt like a series of interrogations and punishments for when I couldn't mask at all times of the day and I didn't exactly handle myself right. I couldn't communicate and when I tried to.
I had my attempts nitpicked most of the time when I was struggling to speak at all, much less when I had people literally screaming in my ears for shits and giggles just to see me fall on the ground writhing in pain from the shock. I just wanted to be left alone back then.
The details of what I would do at the gym were engraved in my mind because, aside from learning to drive, it was the first time I felt free and self-empowered as a kid.
Oh, and by the way, the autistic community for the most part rejects the term aspergers given that Hans Asperger was a eugenicist prick.
I swear, the way you shit-talk, it's like chatting with one of my old bullies all over again.
I loved Jamie so much. His character development was so amazing in the earlier seasons. I cried when the writers massacred my boy in the last season
Like Vito Carlone
read the books much better. or listen to them there are full audio books on youtube here
"To be honest I never really cared about them, innocent or otherwise"
@@jacavanheesch4593 or both, look at the book while someone else reads. 😂
@@youngnat im dyslexic as fuck +ADD so its kinda hard for me to keep my focus on reading. also having someone read to me almost feels like being a kid getting a bedtime story which is some cozy vibes
Something to add; After Jaime is shaved bald and grew a beard at the start of ASoS, he is saddened to think Cersei will be angry that he doesn't look as much like her anymore at his eventual return to King's Landing
You just made me think of how Cersei is also shaved bald, just later on, in AFfC. They don't lose their hair at the same time, but now my mind is kind of blown
@@iateabagelonce They also came out the womb with Jaime holding her foot.
He loses his hand and Cersei steps in a pile of shit during her walk of shame, my guess is that her foot will be infected and have to be amputated symbolizing their bond being destroyed.
@@judeconnor-macintyre9874damn that's genius
It never struck me until now- The reason Jaime never mentioned why he killed the king was because then he would have to reveal there was a cache of wildfire in King's Landing. With all the families, and their feuds, the change of political power over time... Someone would find and use it if it wasn't kept secret.
It's so very ironic and sad... the bravest, most selfless thing to happen in main ASOIAF timeline was done by a kid who went on and hated himself for it. What Jamie did went beyond "honor". He threw his own name in the dirt to protect thousands. Thus is the hypocritical nature of this world. The man who deserves the most praise, gets half a page in the White Cloak Book of bullshit.
Honestly, what other knight in hundreds of years has been the most chivalrous?
Jamie mocks Ned not only because he is an ideal he thinks he can never match, but because he saw what Aerys did to his father and brother, was disgusted and properly terrified and was the only man in that room to eventually do anything about it.
Never thought of that
That’s a very interesting take
That is not why he killed him, he killed him because his dads army was at the gates and he would face no consequences for his actions. He was no Knight, he would only make a stand when he was safe, without consequence for his actions.
@@rickstalentedtongue910 I don't mean to be rude, but you might want to reread/rewatch that bathhouse scene with Brienne again.
Jamie was the only person in the throne room advising the King not to let his father's forces into Kings Landing because they would sack the city. Pycel convinced the King to open the gates for Tywin, which panicked Jamie. The gates were open, the King had a change of heart and decided he wanted to burn the entire city and the invading forces with wildfyre. He also demanded Jamie should go out and bring him back Tywin's head.
The Pyromancer was summoned and was about to go blow up the entire city. Jamie killed the Pyromancer and then he killed the King.
Jamie killed the King for many reasons. He would have been safe just waiting for his father's forces. Aerys was hardly in a state of mind to notice Jamie hadn't gone to fetch Tywin's head.
The Wildfyre plot is what spurred him to action. He was tired of watching this crazy person be given absolute power.
@@jessjess23brooks89 Thanks for the heads up, I missed that detail!
The problem with the 'Wear it like Armour' philosophy is that you take what the world says about you and keep it with you. You then carry it with you yourself always and can never move past it because it's YOU that's keeping it.
It can protect you, but it can and will weigh you down as well. It's a short term solution and not something to be done in the long run.
You expressed that absolutely perfectly! Thankyou!
You can’t really get over being a dwarf in a world that considers you an abomination. So instead of ignoring it he accepts it but then sharply points the cannon back at the person hurling insults and bigotry because they aren’t ready to be taken down socially by someone they consider a lower being than them, while he constantly deals with that prejudice. He’s heard Imp so many times that being called that from a common born wouldn’t phase him. Not saying it’s the healthiest but it’s gotten him farther than any other strategy. And also I think he’s more affected by how his family mistreated him rather than the mean words said about him. If his father showed him a shred of unconditional love, he wouldn’t be going down the dark path he’s on. (in the books at least!)
Tyrion who says it, is definitely the kind of character to say that and mean it for that reason. He means to hold resentment. He’s a very resentful spiteful individual shown in his own actions. He is like Arya, he doesn’t forget.
I do feel like that was a major part of the philosophy GRRM used as fuel for Tyrion's arc post Tysha confession
Armour is STRONK!
But also heavy, and might weigh you down over time
Jaime is a brave knight who slew an evil dragon and fell for the most beautiful woman in the realm… just the minor inconvenience that the dragon was a king and the woman was his sister 😬
You probably won’t read this, but if you do I have to admit this is super insightful on the take of the knight, dragon and princess. It’s just a messed up version of it
This is so well thought !!
😂 thats so smart!
a testament to Martin’s subversion of fantasy tropes- I love it!
another way brienne is a beautiful inverse to jaime is that she feels everything very fully and very obviously- wears her heart on her sleeve. If i recall correctly, Jaime eventually gives up on teasing her because he feels there's no sport in it- she's simply too vulnerable for this to be fun for him. P.S. would love to see a brienne video when you're done with the lannisters
I think the tragedy is that he is forever reviled for the one good thing he has ever done and praised for every horrible act he has ever committed
Although he was considered an adult by Westerosi standards, Jaime was still in his teens when he killed Aerys iirc. If he was afraid of repercussions, if when he saw Aerys's monstrosity and didn't know what to do until Tywin was at the gates, it's only natural. Why should he be so selfless as to not worry about his own life? Particularly at so young an age? It's a big ask.
In terms of speculation, I read Cersei as an abuser. I suspect she pushed Jaime into experimentation early as a means of taking power over him. We know that Cersei always had a struggle where she envied the perks that went along with Jaime's position as the son, not the daughter. Manipulating Jaime so that she had power over him, could dominate him, might have allowed her to maintain a sense of herself in the face of seeing Jaime advance in the world to a position where he stood to be taken seriously by someone they valued (Tywin) and she did not, simply by virtue of Cersei's sex.
I very much agree. One of the important distinctions I never stress enough is that just because Jaime might feel guilt, or others might judge him, doesn't mean he isn't justified or totally understandable. He was young and should've been able to look to the other kingsguard for advice and support, instead he was forced to eventually go against them.
And yeah, that's a good point. I need to discuss their ACTUAL relationship and dynamics more in Cersei's video
Reinforcement for the selfish scheming Cersie, after the prophecy of Maggie the frog, and knowing that her valonquer (little brother) will strangle the life out of her, she always had that dread over her. So to eliminate the risk, she manipulates Jaime by seducing him and getting him wrapped around her finger in the guise of love. That leaves only Tyrion whom she loathes to dispose off.
@@mylittlethoughttree oh man, I can't wait for a Cersei video...she has a whole fleet of U-Hauls to unpack
@@isaabdullahi9097 I 100% think is Jaime how is going to strangle her !
One thing about Jamie in the books (in regards to his kids), in a pov chapter after joffery is dead, Jamie feels nothing.
He considered them to be more Robert's than his. He goes so far as to think he can just give Cersei more kids.
It was pretty cold.
Jaime says to himself if he was offered back his right hand in exchange for Joffs life, he would gain the new hand with glee.
The thing about Joffrey is that Jaime holds no empathy for him because he was cruel, he resents Cersei for allowing him to be cruel too. I can't recall right now if he knew of how Joffrey mistreated Tommen and Myrcella but he did know his oldest was not a nice kid and didn't hold any love for him for it. It is pretty cold of him to say that, but given how Cersei gave him no chance in even being a friendly uncle to his children, it's not surprising :/
In comparison, he does care *much more* for Tommen and Myrcella. In ASOS (i think?) and AFFC he tries to be more present for Tommen, but the moment Cersei catches that she immediately sends him off to the Riverlands lmao
For all that Jaime is one of my favourite characters, it is still too easy to forget that... no, he has not actually committed to "redemption" yet. Jaime is still very much intwined with systems of violence, of corruption: he has distanced himself from the people most dangerous to his psyche but this also prompts him to direct all blame to said persons: Jaime could very easily continue to shift any & all responsibility for his actions unto Tywin, Rhaegar, Tyrion, Cersei.
Jaime could also very easily sabotage the relationship between he & Brienne by attempting to replicate the early relationship he had with Cersei: assigning Brienne as his minder and conscience, her successes as his, his faults as hers. While Brienne is now physically more powerful than Jaime, in all other ways (wealth, authority, allies, age, "experience") he has the upper hand.
The dynamic between Jaime & Brienne is an exploration of chivalry: what is beautiful, what is monstrous; what is honour and when does its concept stop serving its purpose; oaths and vows, the limits of fealty; gender roles; the hypocrisy of "righteousness" being achieved through violence (this is something most explored in Brienne's chapters and imminently relevant to Jaime's, as he finds an identity outside "twin" or "warrior").
The psychology of Jaime is fascinating but it is very, very easy to praise him whilst demonizing Cersei: it is a habit I myself often fall into. This study & Cersei's reminded me, again, of that habit & how very far Jaime needs to go, introspectively, before a redemption is truly possible. Assuming he survives long enough to have one, of course.
Some of what you're saying sticks, but his character arch is about becoming his own man. Everything he once dreamt of was given to him by the people who wanted to control the course of his life. When he lost his right hand, he lost his remaining use to authority besides acting as an even more hollow placeholder for the Kingsguard of which he is now the leader.
Importantly, there is a chapter in which he stands before the Kingsguard record, and reflects upon the position, and his responsibility to it, which he now more strongly identifies, in spite of everything. He is already committed to taking responsibility for himself, because everything he does reflects upon the highest position of knighthood, which thanks to Brienne, he now believes is possible, and is inspired to uphold.
When his hand was severed, his tie with Cersei was irrevocably altered. She is disgusted with his stump, and he is no longer attracted to her person.
So, there is no going back for him, and his behavior has changed to mark the man he now wants to be: The Leader of the Kingsguard. He exhibits unreal discipline in training with his left-hand not merely to be able to defend himself and those he loves, but because that is how he feels about the responsibility of his position; committed.
I’m so happy that George changed the original outline and gave us this Jamie instead of the stereotypical villain. His redemption arc is great so far, and I love me a grey character. He and Tyrion are my favorite POVs
This has been my favorite GoT character analysis so far. Jaime really surprised me by going from someone I thought I would hate to my favorite character, with the best arc and chance for redemption. I hope GRRM does him justice, unlike how the ending of the show undid every bit of growth he had.
Jaime and Tommen “going away inside” is one of the saddest things in the books 😭
Tommen says he used to do that when Joffrey.... well, Jaimie cuts him off then but I shudder to think
Sorry, I am a late comer who has not read the books. What do you mean?
@@yordalyn read the books
@@bonbonvegabon I would love to. If only I had time. Thank you for your suggestion though.
Jaime swore an oath to catelyn that he would never hurt any of her blood so him breaking the drive of river run was him keeping his oath not dishing out justice.
Yes, he actually used his infamy to end the siege peacefully. Telling edmure that he would launch his baby in a trebuchet. He thinks like Tyrion and Tywin here and keeps his vow to catelyn in mind. People get mad for Jaime saying this to edmure, but he said what needed to be said to take riverrun without any bloodshed. He uses his dishonorable public persona to actually do something honorable and keep his vows
@@shytguyJon Snow does basically the same to Gilly but not too many people complain about that.
@@diegoledezma4045 Hes Lord Snow now and he has to be cold leader
This is a great point about Jaime not knowing what he wants. He thought he knew what he wanted, but every time he got it, it was horrible. So perhaps he thinks that he literally DOESN’T know what he wants because he hesitates to decide for himself what is good for him because his decisions lead him to all these horrible things.
But everything he thought he wanted was a manipulation made by someone especially Cersei. Jaime only wanted to become a Kingsguard because Cersei promised they'd be together only for this to completely backfire and separate him and Cersei again and leading Jaime to go through the darkest most traumatizing moments of his life. Then once again Jaime is Kingsguard only to now both cuckold and be cuckolded by Robert for Cersei.
"Goldenhand the Just" was perhaps the funniest, most naive, and most endearing thought Jaime has in the entire series.
What you say about relationship and rivalry between twins. Is ACTUALLY spelled in the books.
but from Cersei point of view. Jaime and Cersei live in a very unfair gender devided society for women and Cersei narrations shows a strong resentment towards Jaime for him being a boy, she hides it under honey words and how much she "loves" him. But I think Cersei genuinely hates Jaime to some level. Far greater (Or equally in the best case) than what she says she loves him.
I agree that she hates him on some level. I also agree with the actress, Lena Headey, who played her: I think she wants to be him. She's always thought she would've been a better warrior than him. She even says during the battle of the Blackwater that she'd rather be out there fighting. She definitely resents him purely for the fact that he's a man and was therefore treated better in this society. I think part of her even thinks he's weak because all of his actions were to just stay with her rather than go be the rightful soon and heir to Tywin that she believes she would've been if only she'd been born a man.
@@Candace-Loves man that’s so true. It’s heartbreaking really
The best thing about Jaime’s backstory in my own personal opinion is that it’s kind of like an old Greek tragedy in away, Jaime saved an entire city…but he is tragically is viewed as (and later sort of ends up later) becoming the villain.
Jaime also saved himself and his father and his father's troops by murdering Aerys. He could have killed the pyromancers (no one would have cared), grabbed the king and locked him in a room with a gag on his mouth and thus prevented the wildfire explosion. By the way, was the wildfire just left untouched to be misused later? Was it the same wildfire that Tyrion used in the Battle of the Blackwater?
Jaime saved Kingslanding from wildfire, Tyrion saved Kingslanding with wildfire, and both are vilified for it.
@@brain_snakes I don't vilify either of them; but Jaime and Tyrion's actions were motivated by self-interest as well as possible concern for the populace. Tyrion's life would have been forfeit if Stannis had won, also Jaime's life and very likely those of Cersei's children (all of whom were family members Tyrion loved, with the exception of Joffrey). Jaime may have wanted to save the people of King's Landing, but he knew that he would die, as would his father and the Lannister troops, if Aerys set off the wildfire.
@@gailf1617 Read the books dear. Jaime murders two pyromancers before murdering Mad king Aerys
@@bonbonvegabon I'm not your "dear" and I have read all the books.
Jaime doesn't kill his cousin in the books tho,he dies from a horse accident when they are traveling through the riverlands with Brienne
This was an excellent video. I think Jamie's character is one of the most interesting in the books. I think the reader can go from seeing him as a cold-blooded villain to understand some of the things he's done and feeling empathy for him. It's quite an experience.
Yes, about the difference between Jaime and Cersei, I think it does have to do with Jaime's status as heir. Even with an absent father, as heir Jaime would have more access to adults capable of helping and educating them, be they servants, master at arms, knights, bannermen, and friends. And if we know anything about Westerosi culture, it's that Cersei most likely grew up like Sansa was. With a Septa and a friend. Which, in Cersei's case, Cersei possibly killed her.
This situation or difference in upbringing between boys and girls could also be seen in the relationship of Lannister boys and their aunts/uncles. Jaime and Tyrion are the only ones with fond memories or relationships with their extended family, Cersei, on the other hand, seemed to have grown up almost isolated, probably because of Tywin and his view of her more as a political token. All of Cersei's memories of her uncles are during large gatherings, and her opinion of them is a repeat of Tywin's opinion, or something formed in her adulthood. While Tyrion, for example, had conversations, he sought and found affection in them. Like Jaime, although this one, unlike Tyrion, did not seem to need his extended family to supply Tywin's lack of love, possibly because he had everything that his status as heir gave him, plus Cersei.
There is no doubt that Cersei killed Melara, but I can't really feel bad for her growing up without her in that case. She also had a friend named Jeyne (like Sansa). Sansa would have had several friends at Winterfell and possibly Cersei did at Casterly Rock. Cersei has memories of her Aunt Genna. Cersei also had a "string of bedmaids" once she and Jaime slept separately, but none of them lasted long because she didn't like or trust them, despite her dislike of sleeping alone.
Thank you for this video.
Ever since I first started reading GoT at 13 years old (can't believe it's been over a decade!) Jaime has been by far my favourite character. It felt strange that despite there being characters whose morality (Ned), intelligence (Tyrion), or a combination of those (Jon) I really related to, I kept rooting for the guy who seemed like one of the most evil characters in the book.
I personally struggle with the trauma and low self-worth that seems inherent to growing up a gifted child with undiagnosed ADHD. As a child and teenager, I always knew I was brilliant, but the world seemed determined to drag me down. I still remember one moment when I was in 5th grade. The grade average required to finish with honours was 4.75. I looked down at my certificate of graduation. 4.74. I had a 5 from almost every subject, a couple of 4s... And a 2 for behaviour. Had that been even a 3, I would have realised my parents' dream of me graduating with honours. But no.
It felt so unfair, and on top of many other slights, I started feeling that the world hates me. So I hated the world in return, laughed at it, pretended not to be bothered by anything and not caring about anyone. I was a sarcastic twit, joked all the time, ridiculed everyone who tried to accomplish anything. I never put in any effort. I just coasted on my above average intelligence.
I think that is why it was so easy to relate to Jaime. His humour hiding his disappointment and hurt.
His journey of opening up to Brienne was beautiful. It took me years after reading these chapter to go on this journey myself, but when I did, I often did feel as if I was Jaime, talking to Brienne, finally being real for the first time in years.
Another thing I would like to add is that the loss of a limb is very similar to the loss of a loved one. I know it sounds like an abstract concept to some but in my work I've seen people go through mourning for missing limbs and senses like a loved family member. It's a very deep rooted loss to lose a literal Part of Yourself and what that means for independence, autonomy, and mortality. I once had an older man tell me that there's nothing more damning to prove how human we are than having a piece of your body die before the rest of you as evidence. But I suspect they're also could be some insight or personal growth in that experience. Not to imply that trauma is required for growth of course (I hate that trope tbh) but I think in losing his hand Jaime was forced to explore the other parts of himself outside of his knighthood and what the Knighthood was symbolic of. Hands are also symbolic of our professions in a lot of ways after all. My best friend is an occupational therapist that reteaches people how to physically function & live their lives again after severe accidents or health declines, and she's noted several times before that it's interesting how a change in physical functionality often translates to new perspectives and insights about ourselves by being forced to move through the world in a new way.
Makes sense, losing a loved one is like metaphorically losing a part of your self.
It quite literally makes you find and use other parts of yourself, under used or neglected parts.
I also find myself thinking about how Jaime had to stand by while each of the queens he was to protect were being raped & beaten by the kings he was to protect- how much worse for him when it was his sister/lover/mother of his children.
Part of the whole "ending the war without bloodshed" thing is because he swore to Caitlyn never to take up arms against the Tullys and their allies again, and he is trying to keep to that oath.
Please keep up with the ASOIAF content. An episode about Theon Greyjoy would be incredible
I like his character development. He is actually a man of honor in his own way. At least in the show.
Even more in the books than in the show, though.
Honor? He pushed a child out of a tower.
@@rickstalentedtongue910 Hmm so after that pushing, whatever he does, he will never be redeemed right? We can never correct our mistakes?
@@thefaramith8876 First, you have to admit your mistakes. Show me where he did that? Or maybe he never made mistakes? Or maybe his mistakes were not what I am pointing out?
Damn, I didn't realize how much I related to the Kingslayer until most of this breakdown applied to me. Clicking on a MLTT video always means I'm gonna end up questioning some things about me life. Pointing out that Jaime is the middle child made a lot of things connect.
I think the whole twins aspect is interesting, I'm not a twin but me and my older brother are very close and I think growing up I formed a lot of my identity around being the younger brother, following whatever he was doing and supporting his wants more than my own. One of the problems with that was once we were adults and doing our own things I was faced with finding a new identity for myself while not only being used to following someone else but so used to supporting their needs that it's been challenging to even know what I should be doing for myself.
I feel like that's kind of where Jaime ended up. You can move past the people you were putting your identity and direction in, and you can decide what sort of person you'd like to be, but then it's challenging to know what you can do from there to actually live out that identity and you end up just kind of passively going with the flow hoping you come across an opportunity to do what you think you should. But like we see with Jaime the problem with that approach is the opportunities that come up are usually small and insignificant, he probably wants a chance to do something big but doesn't know how or what without someone to give him that direction.
This was the most comprehensive, well considered and insightful review of Jamie's character that I've seen. Well done lad.
I always loved Jamie’s character! You did an awesome job of explaining the psychology behind him and his motives at point that really made sense to me as a reader
How amazing is GRRM to be able to create such amazing 3 dimensional characters in one family let alone a whole book series
Have to point out, Jaime dream happened when he slept on a weirwood tree stump. A magic tree. It’s quite possible it’s not all his imagination. It’s probable someone sent this dream to him.
Jamie is such a great character for most of the series. And Nicolaj is an amazing actor, great at playing a villain, which is why I want him to play Doctor Doom in the new fantastic four films.
well george has said hes exploring redemption with jaime so i do think he is on that road. in fact i suspect in winds (if it ever comes out) hes going to be faced with a lot of the questions you posed. especially considering he will be meeting lady stoneheart the woman he wronged and failed the most.
i suspect bran, the edmure trebuchet situation, the red wedding will all be brought up. even brienne’s injuries considering he sent her on a quest that was meant for himself will all put a lot of things in to perspective for jaime and send him down a new course.
Theres a scene early in the first book where Ned tells Robert Jaimes a monster because he saw him sitting on the throne, and Robert laughs in his face.
I would love to see Jaime get his redemption and have him end up a hero, but i don’t see it happening. He’ll come to the realization that he’s just not a very good guy and he’ll make peace with that and possibly embrace it or he’ll die before he can really make a big change or he will be redeemed and he’ll go out a hero, but everyone else will believe he was a monster. I’m keeping my fingers crossed he gets a happy ending or at least finds peace.
I have personal experience with dissociation. I think of my dissociated state as going into the storm shelter. I’m stuck in a small space but I’m safe from the storm that is raging outside.
Most tragic thing about Jaime is contrast between what he knows about himself, and what world know. He falls into denial of his true idenity not because he don't want to be honourable and righteous. He deceives himself, because he want to fit into the persona that was created by opinions about him.
This was so well put. I never thought about it in that perspective
I just finished my bachelors in psychology and I think your channel might be my favorite therapist based one
I want to be a therapist myself and I love trying to figure characters out
Ah thanks! That means a lot
I always call him "Ser Jaime", because as his character stands now, he deserves that title.
This made me tear up
After watching this cements Jamie as someone who I fully consider a person who wants to the right thing but he just unfortunately doesn't understand what that actually means. It's tragic
I love how “idealism” is playing in the background music. ❤
I enjoy these videos so much despite not being a reader of the series and you make me want to read the books; I will however not put myself through another Wheel of Time and risk the author dying before the series is complete.
First off, I want to say: I love this series of videos about the Lannisters! They've been my favourite characters in the book series and your insights are really interesting. I can't wait for your Cerei video.
I think if Jaime immediately became moral and just, it would come off as a little too easy. He's had a lifetime of growing up a Lannister, both in the sense of how he sees himself/how he wants to be seen and also how he deals with others ie. the river lands. My impression is that he's still really unsure of who he is and what his place in this world is and, like any of us, wonders how he'll be viewed by others. His interactions with Hoss is interesting, even though he acts outwardly like he doesn't like this kid, he seems to want to learn from him. If he was satisfied with the way he was, I'd be more concerned but he's clearly not happy doing the bidding of Cersie in taking Riverrun or with having to interact with the Freys. He even abandoned his duty without any hesitation to help Brienne.
Please please please do Cersei next! This was an amazing and descriptive breakdown of Jaimes mental and cognitive processing and problem solving
I think you see him as Lawful Good, battling his inner moral compass due his turns and desires. I see him as Lawful Neutral who has inner battles not due to what is good pr bad, but by he deviated from his own code of chivalry.
13:22 I think that’s a little harsh on Jamie sure it was impulsive but that’s because Aerys order the pyromancer to blow up king landing and kill over 500,000 people so he can’t exactly plan it out if he only had minutes to decide.
Oh no, it's not a criticism. Planning was made doubly hard because the other kingsguard showed him no support. There's nothing wrong in the impulsive approach, sometimes it's exactly what's required BUT it's still typical of Jaime
Thank goodness you chose to discuss the Jamie from the books, if it was the show I would have thrown up, but still have watched 👍
44:29 yeah, she says so enough in the books. He got a sword and she got nothing, and from that day on she was left with septas and carers and he was taken on as heir. He was taught he could be worthy and how to get to that point, she was taught she never had much worth to begin with outside of marriage. It makes sense she has the darker mindset, and would want that control over his mind.
I dont think Ned haunts Jamie just because Ned was a honorable man. I think Jamie actually looked up to Ned, Ned was the embodiment of everything Jamie wants to be. Honerable, respected and renowned in battle. And Jamie sat back and did nothing to stop him being killed at the hands of his tyrant son. Just like he sits back and does nothing to defend himself. I think thats the reason Ned makes such a huge impact on Jamie next to everyone else. When everyone else calls him kingslayer he has a Easier time shrugging it off. But when it comes from people like Ned and Brian. People who embody everything he wants to be, it cuts him very deeply. In his mind he probably sees it as Honorable to keep the truth to himself, taking responsibility for breaking his oath dispite the reasons. But his desire to want to go down hlin history as a Honorable man leads him to confide in Brian about why he actually broke his Oath. He confided in the one honerable person like himself who history will likely judge unfairly due to her gender.
I hate the argument about Jamie waiting too long to kill Aerys. He was like 17-19 (I can't remember specifically); I know that's an adult by their standards but the few years he'd been on the kingsguard before that, he was SO young, and the adults around him were all looking the other way and telling him to do the same.
I know Jamie's not a totally good person, but he's one of my favorite characters because honestly I think he's got a stronger sense of morality than a lot of other characters, it's just HIS morality.
Your Lannister videos are so thought-provoking, even beyond ASOIAF & literature, this one probably even more so than the first two! I suggest you make one on Kevan after Cersei. I've always found him very interesting,both different &similar to his kin and a fair bit like jaime. What a psycho(logical) gift this entire family is! Btw, i've only now realised how similar Jaime is to Tyrion(&cersei).Apart from his recklessness,arrogance &sarcasm, I've always seen him as the least Lannaster-ish at heart . Thnx for opening my eyes😁😳🤯🖤🖤🖤
good analysis. I have speculated whether the dreams about Eddard Stark maybe a foreshadow of a future book, as there is the possibility that as the winter reaches the Stark castle all the dead starks including Eddard will reanimate (placing him and his wife of opposite sides of the conflict).
I have always liked the symbolism of the hand and fingers imagery in the books too. Related Jamie Looses his hand Tywin was the hand and Jamie separates from the hand and its influence, including the sexual imagery he distances from Cersei, Being maimed he moves closer to Tyrion. I wonder if Jaime is less cold than Cersie because of Tyrions influence he seems the only person he could have got that early on or perhaps his mother. the new hand he has ironically he wears like armour.
In the books he never killed his cousin in captivity. It is a very important point, I wonder how you don't know it. 32:57
Yeah, that was a weird error. Having only both watched the show and read the books vert recently, I guess I got confused between them
I think a lot of people in this modern world today can relate strongly to "going away inside". That's a large part of what makes A Song of Ice and Fire so compelling, no matter your preferred genre. Dragons, wights and fire gods aside, and gasp all you like, but it's just humans being humans.
I had a long one hour drive home late tonight. Listening to this relaxed me and made the time fly. Thank you!
I kind of loved idea that Jamie outperformed Tyrion in few battles. Sure you can read the books all you want, but practice is a whole different beast which made Jamie beat Tyrion.
This keeps reminding me I really need to pick up ASOIAF books cause the characters go through a lot more and it's interesting. Plus I'm sure I won't be disappointed Jaime's development in the end compared to the show (super disappointing). The length of the books is a bit intimidating.
It makes more sense to me now that he was conflicted a lot, protecting the King of fulfilling the promise. And learned he watched traumatic stuff when he was in the kingsguard. I understood why some of the stuff was cut in the beginning of GoT for the first few seasons (we don't count the last ones) and didn't see much of him dealing with his internal conflicts and unfulfilled flaw.
I so can't wait to see your video on Cersei. And hope you can do one of Brienne eventually
The problem with the show is it struggles to convey the internal monologues and struggles characters go through in the books, as it's operating from a third person perspective.
Tyrion for example only mentions Tysha a few times, but thinks about her constantly. The showrunners struggled to convey this in tv format and so eventually dropped it, to the detriment of Tyrion's character. This especially affects characters who put on a front for their true personality, such as Sansa, Jaime and Tyrion (uncoincidentally all having pretty unsatisfying personality arcs).
Jaime is a tragic figure really. He had a lot of going for him (discounting the obvious child on child SA - Cersei was the instigator and the dominant one), got knighted by his knightly idol, etc. And then that 15 year old became a hostage in a fancy dress to a cruel madman. And had to bear him for 2 years until that Day of Reckoning. I am fully convinced that 17 year old Jaime wasn't fully present in his mind when he killed the king, the whole thing left him with PTSD and he also never fully left the 'inside place'. Going 'inside' was his coping mechanism and I think he stayed there until confessing to Brienne. And with no other friends left to him, with judgment and scorn, it's no wonder he latched onto his toxic family, and bound himself even closer with Cersei. There was really no one else there for him. From the Kingsguard only Ser Barristan lived still but he was injured and away, and I doubt his character would make him suitable to lead Jaime through it. Ned Stark didn't bother to ask and got deceived by a mask of confidence. So Jaime had no other allies.
Brilliant breakdown!
Calling its child on child SA is so gross. They were not assaulting each other sexually. It was wrong. But MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of children do these things and have to be taught that it is not appropriate. It is not fucking SA
Jaime is the middle child but only by a few minutes. Being the heir, he was also the oldest in a way. He would have been treated as the oldest over Cersei because she didn't count in that way. But he gave way to her because she felt (and was, let's face it) passed over.
It's an excelent breakdown but he's basic instincts can't and never will be changed. "We can't change who we love" .. coming from complex childhood trauma spacially.. theraphy can help, but no known theraphy can get that deep withouth breaking him completlly. Yes, he came to despise her but he is a man of honor and his basic identity is he'll always love Cercei.
I've always seen Jaime as an honorable guy. He just make his own code. He don't follow his vows or let anyone force him to do something chivalrous, but if something really clicks with his honor code, he's relentless and very very thorough. He jumped into the bear pit, ended the siege of Riverun without breaking his oath, because he respected Kat and a lot more. What a character...
Jamie, the golden Anti-Skywalker.
41:06 there was a great video I recently watched abouthow if Joanna was someone Tywin loved, it was likely she wasn’t a sweet paragon of love but instead a cunning, almost shrewd lady that knows what she’s doing and how to continue the line and it’s reputation. Why would Tywin like someone who is lovely and innocent and would cry at his actions rather than one he could talk to and get good ideas from. She was obviously still beautiful but that’s got nothing to do with her as a person.
Really love this video. I think you're a bit strict with judging his acts now as mainly for how it will be conceived rather as out of guilt or for redemption or betterment. I think in a way those are tied. I think Jaime is at this point more concerned with finding himself anew. He lost his sword-hand (and with that all he defined himself as), his relationship to his twin is suffering, by that point when he's appeasing the riverlands (which defined him as he saw them as one extended person, and not just in a way to push his faults on her. Actually it's quite the opposite at first. In the beginning he seems to see her as the better part, only making a180 once he finds out about her unfaithfulness), he lost his brother, father and first born son too (who also played a part in defining him, as they pulled him anywhich way they wanted. As you mentioned, he's a bit like the glue keeping his family together, in a way, though they'Re all clashing and impossible to match, trying to keep his family happy and at peace with each other, and funnily, it's with him gone, that they implode), in a way. The only thing that'S left to him is his reputation and that's a pretty shitty one he hates. On the other hand, due to "wearing it like an armor" he has somewhat allowed the reputation to define him. He became what they saw him as.
So for him to change how they see him is not just a means of bettering his own mention, it is, in a way, a part, almost synonymous with reinventing himself. And he desperately needs to. I think that may not necessarily mean redemption, I think he's necessarily seeking redemption---but he HAS to find himself. All the things that made up who he was are gone. So, he has to find new ways, and I think it'S fitting that therefore how he is seen is a natural starting point for him. So, I wouldn't be so harsh as to say it'S simply selfishly to better his image not to become a "better person" also. In that regard, I also think the order of his thoughts is a bit crucial. He does something good or right first, then comments about how it feels right, and then about how this might affect his image, and then that this might make him "Goldenhand the Just". In his own thought process the just act comes first, followed by both the emotional satisfaction he feels at it and the hope that it might change how he'S seen and thus who he may become in the future.
I'm also looking forward to, whether we'll get more about his "justice". He calls it Justice when he hangs those men in the Riverlands, and he invents the moniker "the just" for himself. And he seemingly feels emotional gratification, "feeling like Justice". So I wonder if he'll try and go with that now. With Jaime you can kind of see different ethics systems failing. Doing things for Honor, Glory and Loyalty all failed him, so maybe he'll go for a sort of personal justice.
OMG thank you for explaining this. I never understood why Ned was so judgmental towards Jaime for be the Kingslayer
I think Jaime is more empathetic, than his sister because of Tyrion. She has no links to love other than her father who she tries to emulate. Jamie has more than just his father, He has his brother. He knows how to love, and he knows what his brother has to go through being that he’s fought on his behalf multiple times.
I would love a Break down in the character of the 3 Baratheon brothers
If there ever was an alternative scenario i would love to read, it would be one in which Jaime was forced to take the black.
I think he would be resentful at first, but then start to enjoy his duties as a ranger, become at home with his new brothers who care little or less for his family name. And when the others start rising, him lending his voice to the plea to the iron throne would make a difference...
At the same time: Tywin would be forced to turn to tyrion as heir. And cersei would not give birth to 3 bastards..
This was WONDERFUL!!!!! I did just want to let you know though…. Jamie and Cersei are fraternal twins, not identical. Identical twins truly ARE identical in EVERY way… even down to identical DNA. They MUST be the same sex. Every other thing about this was PERFECT!!!!!!! Thank you for all you do!!!!
Can you do Theon/reek next? But I would say they are different persons in show and books
I don’t like the way people talk about “redemption” for Jaime (who is by far my favourite character) because it suggests a sort of black and white understanding of morality. One of the best parts of Martin’s writing is how he captures the complexity of real life. There is no good or evil, just complicated people. Jaime is the perfect example of this. Whatever he does throughout the story he is scrutinised by both the readers and the other characters. He’s damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.
I have almost no knowledge on mental health and what the cause and effect of these things might be but I feel like maybe Jamie never knows what he wants as an adult because he’s never been allowed to do what he wants his whole life. The only thing I can think of that he’s explicitly stated he wants is to be with Cersei but he can’t do that either so maybe whenever he tries to think of what he wants he just rules out anything he’d actually want because he figures that he can’t have it. Just my thoughts though, great video by the way.
I agree. For being a "spoiled, rich boy" he lives in a world of no & duty. Free thinking isn't exactly a muscle he developed.
Side note - I remember having almost a breakdown when at 29 I went to the store after my divorce. I stood paralyzed in the jam aisle realizing for the first time I could remember, I could pick out what ever jam I wanted. I didn't have to think of a sister or a roommate or husband's allergies or preferences. Just what I wanted. And I had no idea how to choose if I was not doing it to make someone else happy or deciding because of constraints.
Then I started laughing uncontrollably to myself. I bought a handful of different ones.
I also think with twin you can get the outright refusal to separate they depend on each other so much and have such a closeness literally from day one that the idea of doing thing without the other and being individual is unthinkable
You kind of have to remember when talking about Honor and Justice in the Goldenhand section that Jaime is in a Medieval world, where your Honor is your legacy, and Justice can be highly subjective depending on your point of view. By trying to be honorable and change how people perceive him, he is trying to change what his legacy would be after he is gone- after all, even if HE knows the reason, what man would want to be known to history as The Kingslayer? Even in Martin's alternate version of history, you very much get the sense that many people, at least the High Born, view the world through much the same eyes our own ancestors would have. Many people of that strata would have viewed their 'eternity' as how men remember them, and if Jaime began to come out of the PTSD shell he had built around himself and see beyond the moment to what would come later, he may have begun to see that he had to change how he carried and presented himself. After all, if he had died instead of being captured, or when being recaptured, what sort of a legacy would he have left? If he was remembered at all, it would have been as nothing more than The Kingslayer, a minor footnote in the history of the Seven Kingdoms. In my view, he began to try and change himself to be what HE saw as an honorable knight- he may be on the 'wrong' side, but he can attempt to mitigate the damage. He could try to do 'right', in his view, while still serving the 'wrong' side, and he had to pick and choose his battles. He couldn't just sweep in and undo what his father had set up, but he COULD try and lessen the harm those actions were causing, where it was within his power. In our own history, there are many instances of men who we still remember for at least TRYING to do the right thing, even when it was difficult to do so- and all of them are flawed men in their own right. I think Jaime is an excellent fictional representation of that struggle and just how difficult it really is- as well as how much it can cost you.
There's probably a term for what I'm about to awkwardly describe, but the fit between internal identity and the various spheres of expectation in which people live is a great lens for character analysis. I feel it's tragic when people are forced to be somebody they genuinely aren't by their families and/or thier society. With the female characters, this comes down to whether or not the character is satisfied with their proscribed role of a wife...beauty, submissiveness, and fertility. Brienne obviously does not fit the expectations put on her, but Ygritte does. However, while Catelyn and Sansa are both well-suited to their roles by nature, in their experiences as noble daughters we see how expectations also lie. The fact that Ned was perfectly suited to being a northern lord lulled his family into a false sense of universality. Ned is an exception, as it happens, and even he doesn't realize this. He judges Jaime without truly understanding that reality doesn't always follow the code. Jaime is a bit like Sansa, suited to the role he thinks he is to play. Cersei's sense of identity is utterly derailed by the loss of her mother's example and guidance. Sheesh, we could go on forever...
I think one thing we should point out is that Jaime is right: the whole concept of knighthood being a special or honorable thing has always been fraudulent from start to finish. Historically knights start out as basically the armed lackey of the landowner class who could more or less do what they want, not just because they are the ones with the weapons, but also because their boss is literally the state. And then they became their own class of nobility that was basically a specialized arm of the military. That‘s what knights were irl. In-universe George R R Martin never spells this out fully because the story is told by people who overwhelmingly don‘t see it that way, but it‘s true all the same.
And in-universe it should be obvious that people like Arthur Dayne and Gerold Hightower aren‘t really better people than Jaime. After all, they‘re the ones that let Aerys burn all these people to death. I wouldn‘t call them evil since, what the hell were they supposed to do, but they definitely aren‘t better than the one guy who actually broke his oath when it mattered.
At the same time, while people like Tywin and Bolton and Aerys are definitely villains, there‘s not really a side in any of this that‘s fundamentally better or more humane. At the end of the day, most of the atrocities are not abberations but actually the norm in this kind of society*. And it was definitely the worst when they were fighting.
*by the way, I don‘t want to condemn feudalism any more than I want to glorify it. The society that preceded it was even worse and the treatment of the peasant class actually got worse toward the end of feudalism and well into the period that followed. But we should have no illusions about this social order or the people at the top of it, no matter whether their names were Lancaster, Stark, Wittelsbach or Targaryen.
Commenting before I watch. This has to be a challenge when you think about how they fkd his character arc up in the show but I’m optimistic.
He basically goes from a skeptic, cynical boy who wants glory, to villainous but not evil (capable of malice), to anti-hero
He was the only one....
...who did not treat me like a monster....
I love you brother.
Now and always.
How about after the truth about Tysha? I'm pretty sure you hate him after that.
@@Candace-Loves bros before hoes. That genuine bro moment gave me more relief than a thousand lying whores.
On a genuine note though... Yes of course it bothered me.
It wasnt his plan though and i bet he had no idea that my lord father would pay her to gangbang half the lannister force...
Cant even blame her... Its literally her job to lie and act...
Blame Tywin.
I honestly admire him in many ways, but that situation was his absolut lowpoint for me.
I would love to see these videos on some of the characters in Peaky Blinders!!!!
Awe. I love your opening animation. It's so tranquil.
FYI: while I cannot speak to UA-cam's algorithm and how it reacts to mentions of SA, SA is also a really useful acronym that can help prepare people for triggering content in a shorter, gentler way. Using SA instead of directly referencing sensitive material is a caring thing to do for your audience. The term can help people avoid being triggered by more explicit content warnings. Sometimes even the mention of the act can trigger trauma responses. If that seems over the top, consider that even if it prevents just one person from having a trauma response, it is worthwhile.
As a identical twin the whole twin section is gross lol. I do relate to allot of what he said about twins I would say it is even worse being identical of the same gender. Often times my brother would anger my parent's and i would be forced to endure the anger to a lesser degree. I look identical to him and it is hard to seperate us when ur angry at one. It certaintly is a struggle to find your own identity when you have a carbon copy around. Now were adults and still very close of course it is a bond no one can understand. Much stronger then regular siblings and even lovers. Of course the bond you forge with your children is perhaps stronger. I would say in my experience that although a bond with your child is stronger their is still a strong bond of mutual respect between peers with one's twin and a feeling of understanding that eludes one with thier children.
I would argue Jamie knows exactly who he is, however his perception of himself and the perception the wider world have of him self are different. He’s realized it’s pointless to try to bridge the gap, because they will never understand his motivations. When he killed the mad king he was being the real Jamie who wanted to be held among the names of Arthur dayne and sir gerold Hightower. However this very act made it impossible to for him to held in the same leagues. He did the right thing and it cost him everything, and no one will ever understand the sacrifice he made. He sacrificed himself for the good of others only to be cast down for it by the same people he saved.
Funnily enough, I think Ned and Jaime are more similar than they would ever admit. Ned wouldn't hesitate to drop his honor to protect his family or innocent children. I think he would have killed Areys for commanding that the city be burned, probably in the exact same way. Ned's resentment for Jaime is misplaced and maybe some of it is due to him being a Lannister.
So glad I discovered this channel!
Thanks! I'm glad too
I think one problem for Jaime and how he is perceived is that he inevitably gets lumped in with Tywin‘s atrocities during the Sack of King‘s Landing. Jaime didn‘t just kill Aerys, at the same time Tywin‘s men committed horrific crimes including the murder of Rhaegar‘s wife and children. And they‘re all Lannisters. People just assume it‘s all the same thing, though probably Jaime does himself no favors with his attitude.
In the show he killed his cousin, in the books his cousin had his skull smashed as he fell from and was dragged by a horse while traveling with Jaime and Brienne. Jaime had thought to kill Lancel when he learned of Cersei's unfaithfulness, but decided not to. Also in the books, He had vowed to kill Tyrion, but I doubt that he will. Jaime was the only one holding the Lannisters together. These people hated each other mostly. But Jaime cared about all of them and they all cared about him.
This is apart of his character that is so often overlooked. Once Jaime was captured the entire dynasty went for each others throats. Jaime was the mediator. I wonder if he’s the most similar in temperament to Joanna? It’d make sense since Joanna seemed to also be universally liked. Jaime was the one to work out compromises between Cersei, Tyrion, and Tywin. He just kept Cersei and Tywin from interacting with eachother as much as possible.
Basically told both of them to shut up about it because he didn’t want his family fighting. But without him there they immediately start taking hostages and passing open threats.
@@kekero540 That is so true. Without Jaime, the Lannisters are a bunch of people who barely get along. Cersei and Tyrion are afraid and want approval from Tywin who doesn't think much of either of them. Jaime is the one they ALL care about and he cares about ALL of them.
Jamie is best writen character in The Song Of ice and fire and all he pov chapters are very good especially pov chapters in Feast his chapters are by far best in 4 book
can't wait for cersie analysis
I'm sorry if I'm just noticing something that's been going on, but I LOVE your intro!
Loved the Tywin one. Glad too see a new one!
I have enjoyed listening to your analysis of the GOT character’s. Why they do what they do? Great job 👏
Please do book Jon next!
I feel like we were robbed in the last seasons
I hope you do Jon one day! 🐺 I can’t get over how invested I am they aren’t even real people LOL you could right a go-along book!
I would love to get one of these for the Stark kids, especially Arya, Bran and Rickon.
Hey what's up just dropping in to say do more of this, please and thank you