I’m a GM trans tech and part of the issue with TCC failure is that the TCC pressure valve solenoid is PWM controlled by the TCM. It’s not an on/off switch. So when you get degraded fluid the PID parameters that control the PWM out put of the solenoid can easily lose control of the TCC. Drain and fill normally fixes it if caught early enough.
It doesn't help that GM decided they should use a trans cooler bypass to run the fluid hotter than they should in order to boost fuel economy 0.05%. If GM gave customers the choice of either cooking their trans fluid prematurely for a tiny fuel economy boost, or burning a tiny bit more fuel but the transmission runs cooler, no rational human being would opt for cooking the trans fluid. I tell people all the time, with these GM 6 speeds, you have to change it way more often than what GM claims in the service schedule.
@@skylineir34 I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Toyota 8-speeds had the exact same issues with torque converter clutches failing. The Camry in particular. Honda has had torque converter clutch shudder and failures for years. The 2nd gen Ridgeline is particularly vulnerable if the owner uses it like a truck. Manufacturers are trying to squeeze MPG's out of vehicles any way they can thanks to the idiotic government insisting big CAFE averages year after year.
A little more than 30,000 miles ago I put in Lubegard Platinum ATF protectant (a shudder fix). With fresh fluid and it's been perfect since. I mean perfect. No strange incidents since.
Yea. Lubegard 60K miles ago is the lost opportunity. Knowing the history of these transmission, Lubegard Instant Shudder Fixx also. I've used Lubegard product for over 20 years. They don't fix broke. But they do a good job of taking the rough edges off shifting and overdrive locking unhappiness. The customer wanted "the new car transmission feel" again. So sad at 95K it is going to cost $5K to get it back.
I sure wish there was someone like you who understand this stuff and can figure out what is actually wrong with a vehicle rather than just throwing parts at it and hope it fixes it....
Ivan, My procedure is to get the trans up to operating temp and pull the Cooler line at the trans. Using a length of Hose Adapter pipe, and a bucket I exchange all the Trans Fluid. 2 Qts out; Stop and add 2qts. I did my wife's Traverse and also used 1 pint of BG trans additive after the process was finished. That ensures all that crap fluid is gone. 10-11 qts. to accomplish. And much better results I find than a D&F.
17 Colorado with the 8 speed, total and utter junk. Even after 2 fluid changes and eventually a torque converter replacement by the dealer for this well known problem, they said it was fine but it was not. It would clank and bang gear changes, random lack of drive when cool at first junction of the day (scary) and had a super annoying slight slippage/lock/slip/lock cruising on the highway. I dumped it at 45k and bought a Highlander with 220k in great condition and absolutely everything still works perfectly.
I drove a friends 2019 Colorado with that 8 speed. Truck only had 55k on it, shuttered like no other. I changed the fluid out with the Mobil 1 HP and it took care of it. Not sure for how long but...
I think you're one of the best UA-camrs there is. Your patience with shooting the shots and narration is fantastic. I'm retired but I learn a little every time watching your videos. I had no idea what one could do with diagnostic technology that you use as well as you do. Thanks! Ed
instant shudder fixx worked great for me on an infinity qx80. I couldn't believe 2 0z. of this stuff and 4 qts of fresh trans fluid worked. Factory updated calibration did nothing. Many cars use PWM to control the tcc lockup to make it shift smooth. On my GMC Yukon I can program it with HP Turners to extend converter life.
I have a '20 that just started doing some weird shuddering when moving from dead stop. Not very frequently. It's got 44k miles. Would you recommend a fluid change and shudder fix? Or just keep an eye on it?
@brettmiller7984 I just did a drain and filter replacement at 86,000 miles on my 4t60e. I used Acdelco Dexron VI and now my vehicle is shifting hard at every gear. I'm getting a slip at or around 50 miles an hour. Not always changing the fluid works. I used Acdelco dexron that is for gm. This world is pathetic. How can vehicles trans be going out before 100k. This car was babied.
Got a 17 impala premier and I've tried everything accept throwing this mfkr off a cliff😒 and I really love the car unless I'm driving it smfh right that part.
We put the shudder stuff in every one we have come in the shop for a shudder. Works great. The converter clutch doesn't ever lock up solid so it wears constantly. It is pulsed applied too.
I own 2 GM products so i change mine often. Transmission fluid is often overlooked but so very important. I do a spill and fill on both my vehicles every 20K miles. It's cheap insurance for your Transmission. And super easy to do.
Good call. I do complete flush every 30 k since new. The Santa fe tranny still runs good even with towing the boat and occasionally running it at 200-220 f
I had a similiar problem with a 2006 Honda CRV with 200k miles. Changing fluids x 3 helped but not completely. As a Hail Mary, I added a product which promised to help/cure. The product is Lubegard 19610 Instant Shudder Fixx, 2 oz. Unbelievably, it worked and the fix lasted 20k miles. When some slight shudder returned I repeated the Lubegard. Still working 30k later. Honestly, I was shocked.
I had a similar issue with Chrysler 62TE. Nice shudder post fluid change. I tried another change and it helped for a bit. But ultimately, it was the torque converter failure that was turning the fluid brown. Ultimately the fix was a Gary Ferraro transmission rebuild. Literally went all the way to Hempstead to get it from him. 2 hours drive
@@eddiereichel9354 I changed mine at 90k. But I don't think I could have saved it. I will change it on the new one. One thing we used to do that we don't anymore is #1, the ecomode stays off. Evo mode I think makes the torque converter lock up faster.#2 we don't downshift down hills anymore. Breaks are cheaper than transmissions
@@ckm-mkc What your saying makes no sense. Fluid slows the wear down and I dont care what lab you use to test fluid with 90k on it is worse than fresh fluid.
I worked at a trans shop for 10 years, to prove it was a TCC friction material issue, we would add half a bottle of motorcraft friction modifier (stinky stuff) let the vehicle run for about 10 minutes and go drive within about 3 tcc engagements if it's lining related it will go away and sometimes it actually I'll go away for quite a longtime. But this is mostly used for diagnostic purposes but we did have a silverado that decided not to replace converter and came back 3 years later with no reverse but said tcc was still working good. Also these traverses had a tcm flash that would keep the converter from locking up in lower gears to keep it from chucking and lugging down the engine at slow speeds. But was only to be used as a customer concern not as a standard to do to all that used that 6 spd trans. The idea for using PWM tcc control is to make the application of the clutch soft, like a soft shift, I agree full engagement all at once would prolong clutch lining life, and most truck applications, especially the 4l60e and 4l80e we'd block off the pwm tcc valve in the valve body so when the main on- off tcc solenoid came on it would apply the tcc fully all at once and it basically eliminated an tcc lining warranty issues long term, they used a pwm solenoid and just an on off solenoid togther on those transmissions
2020 XT6 shuttered at 1500 RPM, Highway speeds, going uphill before it downshifted. The recommended trans fluid change is 45 K. I reached that mileage and changed the fluid which was very brown. Drain for more than a 1/2 hour till the stream stops. I measured 5.5 quarts that came out. Installed 5.5 quarts Moble one High-Performance Full Synthetic LV Automatic Transmission Fluid HP, and fixed the shutter
We used to run into this all the time with 2010-2018 acura's. A fluid flush fixed 95% of them. A few did require torque converter replacements. Its probably the same crummy manufacturer for the torque converters
The 04 through 09 Acuras, Gen 3, also require routine fluid drain and fill, and oftentimes the 3 and 4th gear pressure switches would need to be replaced anyway.
Honda put out TSB's for the 2nd gen Ridgeline. Same thing. TCC shudder leading to TC replacement. Toyota caught some heat for the 8-speed having TC failures too. Not uncommon with Camry's equipped with the 8-speed. You're probably right about it being a OEM issue. More "sustainable" ie cheap friction being used or something.
Nice video Ivan. Just an FYI... On my 2013 Traverse I flushed out at the trans cooler return and filled at the same time until spilling red fresh fluid. Only used about 3 gallons but well worth the effort. Videos out there somewhere I learned from. Use clear vinyl hose.
20 years ago, a drunk driver totalled our car (Volvo, no injuries), we needed a replacement fast. We had three kids so a minivan was an acceptable option. Went to look at a 90s Chrysler minivan. Everything checked out. The owner said "Look, I'll be right up front with you, the transmission shudders and bucks. My mechanic said it'll need a new transmission, and I don't want to mess with it, I'd rather sell. But of course I'll take that cost off the sale price." I looked it up on the internet and read that you had to use the specific 7176 Chrysler fluid in that transmission. I told the guy and he was like, well, maybe, but I think you'll need a transmission anyway. So I bought it at his discounted price. I bought the 7176 fluid and a filter, drained the old fluid out, put the correct fluid in. On the test drive it still shuddered, at first. But then it just started working, I guess the fluid had to flush through. It shifted like buttah from then on. The dipstick said use 7176 OR Dexron-4. I'm pretty sure I drained out dexron-r4 - it sure worked better with 7176. So I stuck with it.
The six speed was a joint venture between Ford and GM. The early versions had serious problems like broken wavy plates and bad torque converters. A serious design flaw was the internal non replacement filter. Tells you the expectation was about 100k miles before failure.
@@mikebuffing727 2000/2002 No, it was developed in 2006 but yes it is the design used in the 6F35, 6F50, & 6F55. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-Ford_6-speed_automatic_transmission I also experience Torque Converter Shudder in my 2010 Taurus with the 6F55 but that was at over 240k miles. One thing to note is the low viscosity fluids used in these transmissions gets dark quick.
You hit the nail on the head. These transmissions won’t go 100,000 plus without changing fluid. I don’t know if it is the modifiers or just accumulation of particles. We took our 2020 traverse to a local 40 year trans shop and had it flushed before we got symptoms. I learned from our 2011 traverse. It started shuddering at 100,00 miles. We just baby it. It has about 250,000 on it now. I spill and fill often and add modifiers. Don’t wait for symptoms. Find a reputable trans place to flush it properly.
@@haroldyoungblood8287 The problem is that manufacturers are forced to program the trannys to upshift too soon for higher MPG and lower emissions. But this strains the trans and causes the clutch packs to slip more than usual as they try to stay engaged. The result is worn clutch material and metal dust that turns the fluid into a black slurry. 60K miles is about the max between fluid changes.
Lubeguard shift shield/shudder fix or Ford Motorcraft limited slip XL3 friction modifier. Works on all transmissions. Was once a Ford field fix for TCC shudder/rumble strips light throttle. Makes the clutches/ATF run cooler too.
I always figured Mopar ATF 3 had some kind of friction modifier in it too. When I worked in the shop and had lots of extra on hand I would run it in place of Mercon V and Dexron III on my cars for a good smooth shift. Viscosity on that old stuff might not work in some places though. @@johnriley7053
Many miles away from home, I blew a transmission line on the highway. The shop who repaired the lines topped-off the transmission fluid. Shortly after I got a shutter when ascending an uphill grade. I changed the fluid and added some Lubegard 19610 Instant Shudder Fixx, 2 oz. And it never shuttered again.
Sounds like they used some cheap generic ATF. When it comes to ATF, the best bet is to always use the OE fluid. Folks like valvoline and mobile try to make universal ATFs, but that results quite a few comprises that have been known to cause issues with transmissions. Basically, brand matters, unlike engine oil, because where the oil weight/viscosity for engine oil is the spec, the brand name (mercon v/lv, dextron iv/vi, honda HC-1, ect) is the spec, so multi spec ATF is akin to trying to make an oil that works perfectly in anything from a geo metro to semi.
TCC shudder seems to be quite a common issue with many modern automatics, getting fresh fluid in them before the shudder gets too bad tends to help but it's usually not a permanent fix. I think alot of the problem is most of them never fully lock the converter clutch, most seem to target around a 30-50 RPM slip even when the converter clutch is "locked" so there is always wear taking place on the converter clutch disk(s), couple that with there not being much material on the clutch to begin with and you have premature failures.
Yeah, I personally think a TCC should either be on or off, not constantly slipping. I have no problem with using PWM control to smoothly apply the clutch, but once it's engaged, it should be fully engaged until it needs to be disengaged. I don't see any real benefit to letting the clutch slip constantly and, as you said, it definitely wears the friction material. From my understanding, the idea is that the clutch slippage absorbs some of the engine's vibrations for a smoother experience, but if that's really so important, how do the same model cars with the same engine bolted to a manual transmission drive just as smoothly with a direct connection and no slippage at all?
My 18 Chevy Colorado Diesel w/ the 6 speed is VERY sensitive to trans fluid quality. About half-way into my latest tranny fluid service interval, I started getting both a) shudder at low power levels and up-shifting and b) harsh abrupt shifts at moderate to high power levels. I added 8-10oz of tranny friction modifier and the tranny shifts like new. Recommend: if you're still more than 10k miles out from a change, drain about 8-10oz from the tranny and replace that volume with a quality friction modifier OR flush and fill early.
They have been slipping the tc for decades with no issues. The “pwm” style TCC setups usually have a lot more friction material than standard on/off systems. There needs to be some slip imo, a few rpm, to act as a damper for NVH from the engine, but it should still fully lock under moderate load situations. Like a hill or with a trailer.
@@JackS425 But there have been issues as proven by this video and many others on many different vehicles. And if they have to constantly slip the clutch for NVH reasons, can anyone explain how manual transmission vehicles drive so smoothly with no clutch slippage at all? The theory makes sense, but if it was such a big issue, wouldn't manual transmissions drive noticeably rougher?
Pretty much every trans has a way of checking level. It keeps the general public from screwing up the trans under warranty by doing something like adding the wrong fluid.
That's cause they want to work on your vehicle to make money. It's all common logic to make them more money. But if you're mechanically incline. You can just service it yourself and save those money for something else. I work on all of my own vehicle so stealership will never see the vehicle ever again. Unless they can give me a really great deal then just maybe I'll let them service it for an arm and a leg. Bad deal and they can kiss my ass they'll never see the vehicle again once it leaves the lot.
Because most folks dont bother with servicing the tranny untill its already 2 feet in the grave, hence the rumor that changing your tranny fluid if you waited too long kills the tranny (FYSA, changing your tranny fluid will never kill your transmission unless you forget to refill it and then try to drive it down the road). Therefore, the manufacturers decided to develop "lifetime fluids" and engineer out the details that make tranny fluid easy to service in order to cut down on manufacturing costs and service plan expenses. So no, its not planned obsolescence driven by some devious corporate exec, its manufacturers doing what auto manufacturers have done since the invenof the automotive: that is, not caring how long the vehicle lasts past the warranty period, and looking for anyway to cut costs that isn't going to cause customers to go to other brands.
Just did that on the 'ol Marquis; drained the torque converter and changed the filter. I can assure you of one thing, Ivan, you are NOT changing that transmission. The last transmission I remember you changed was on a RWD Lexus. GREAT VIDEO!
@@truracer20 Yes. That was before the Lexus. While he was out-of-town his wife's Rogue broke down due to a mouse nest blocking the mass airflow sensor. She thought the transmission blew up again. He emphatically said he was NOT changing the transmission again. Wouldn't it be funny if it did?
I have a 2008 GMC Acadia with very similar shutter. A Chevy dealership diagnosed it to be a failing trans. They did nothing more than test drive it and check for codes and fluid level. They did not offer a fluid change or anything else. A local "Honest" Transmision shop never saw the vehicle but discussed the history and issues I was having and recommended Lube Guard additive for the issue. He said otherwise it would likely be a complete rebuild. He had like 3 cases of the stuff in his parts room. Says he needs to use it on many of the modern transmissions to get them to perform properly. I used the lube guard additive as recommended and 75% of the shutter went away. The rest of the shutter went away after I replaced the spark plugs as it was due. Shutter is gone!! The trans had been replaced before I bought the car and at that time it was shifting normally. It had about 60k on it when the shutter started and I changed the trans oil, which did not help. I am a retired firetruck mechanic with Allison experience and couldn't not keep myself from removing the valve body. Solenoids are unservicabel. valve body is very pricey. I cleaned it like an Allison and put it back together. No change. That is when I used the Lube Guard atf protectant. Not a mechanic in a can kind of guy, but it fixed my trans shutter. Have had no issues for 50k. Time to service the trans again! Great channel. Being retired I miss diagnosing firetrucks. I was pretty good at it due to the very competent training from corporate vendors.
My old Chevy Trailblazer had recurring transmission issues, and the dealer did the repair each time. By the 3rd failure, I had enough (the torque converter lockup was disengaging and re-engaging at highway speeds with very LOUD 'BANGs). I went to an 'olde tyme' transmission place, and bought a re-manufactured transmission from Jasper. No further issues. However, I later found out that there was a SB out on this very fault (Water intrusion in the ATF via the dipstick tube) and the dealer never followed the corrective remedy.
Shuddering can basically be cured by adding Lubegard Instant Shudder Fixx. If it's a torque converter clutch problem, it'll probably cure it. Add a second tube if needed. I do recommend changing to whatever the latest recommended fluid is first (might just be good Dexron VI). Remember that torque converters have been PWM for 20+ years and most of them are designed to actually slip during engagement. If it locks up and holds manually that is a good sign and my recommendation will probably work.
@kevin9c1 I worked at a trans shop for 10 years, to prove it was a TCC friction material issue, we would add half a bottle of motorcraft friction modifier (stinky stuff) let the vehicle run for about 10 minutes and go drive within about 3 tcc engagements if it's lining related it will go away and sometimes it actually I'll go away for quite a longtime. But this is mostly used for diagnostic purposes but we did have a silverado that decided not to replace converter and came back 3 years later with no reverse but said tcc was still working good. Also these traverses had a tcm flash that would keep the converter from locking up in lower gears to keep it from chucking and lugging down the engine at slow speeds. But was only to be used as a customer concern not as a standard to do to all that used that 6 spd trans. The idea for using PWM tcc control is to make the application of the clutch soft, like a soft shift, I agree full engagement all at once would prolong clutch lining life, and most truck applications, especially the 4l60e and 4l80e we'd block off the pwm tcc valve in the valve body so when the main on- off tcc solenoid came on it would apply the tcc fully all at once and it basically eliminated an tcc lining warranty issues long term, they used a pwm solenoid and just an on off solenoid togther on those transmissions
@@natersalad889 Yeah, PWM TCC apply has been around since 1995 in the 4L60E as far as I remember. I think that transmission control update also applied to the 5L50 as I had an STS with that issue. Still required the additive but the additive and fluid maintenance made the problem essentially go away.
I have a similar issue with my 2015 Impala. They say that this is a common issue with this particular transmission. However, my previous car was a 2012 Impala with the same transmission, and in the 8 years I had that car I never had this issue. I was considering trying to get it fixed, but between the high costs and time I'd be without my car, it'd probably be more trouble than what it's worth, especially since it really is a minor annoyance as you said.
Right there with you brother. My wife’s 2016 Impala has the same problem. I THINK I have it narrowed down to a leaking or stuck valve/actuator/accumulator in the valve body. I thought about just using the parts cannon approach and throwing a Sonnax Zip Kit in there, but would really rather narrow it down more because I don’t want to go through the trouble of installing the zip kit and find out it is a clutch boost or TCC control valve that isn’t included in the zip kit. How is your fuel mileage?
I have same issues starting in my 13 lt at 175k , dint drain or fill or flush since 100k said on car fax fluids dark but not burnt I get the rpm glide n shit shifts a hard down shifts got about 50 miles with one tube shutter fix with old fluid in still dint help don't have cash for a drain and fill for at least a month let alone it breaking completely
Hey after hearing about the shaking from you and the comments here I wanted to share what I found out. As an owner of a 2017 Cadillac CTS 2.0 turbo I got with 88k km on it, I noticed the same shaking when I drove it between 50 - 60 mph or 75 - 80 km going upwill on cruise control. After a lot of discussion around the issue I found out it to be called a “torque shudder”. I found out it’s common will these cars that don’t get transmission flushes done on them on time. In fact this cars transmission wasn’t changed at all! The fix for this torque shudder is to pour roughly 10 litres of trans fluid through it as a super flush. It cost around $1300 but it was recommended by GM. Once it got done the problem completely went away forever. Never had the issue come up. In fact I got it done on my second 2016 Cadillac CTS 3.6 as well as that car also had that shuddering. (Though not as bad ). If you need a mechanic from gm to talk to I can hook you up.
My 2017 Ridgeline has a problem with this. Changing the fluids in the trans does fix it. Honda claims it is the guild is getting overheated. They want you to dump and fill three times and they should fix it till the next fluid change. I just dump my fluid at every oil change and the problem hasn’t come back.
I install a Magnafine transmission filter inline in the cooler line. I don't like the non serviceable filter on some transmissions. Easier to keep the fluid clean.
Friend had a similar issue we had to drain and fill 3 times before the fluid looked good after some driving. Then it was fine. Its nonsense that there is no serviceable filter. They could have just put an oil filter type filter externally on the design.
With a tuning software (e.g. Hptuners) the tcc programming tables can be modified to an on/off operation, eliminating the gradual pwm based engagement. It can correct these symptoms sometimes for the lifetime of the car.
I have a sealed for life automatic transmission in my diesel LR3. I bought it second hand a few years ago. The seller was a Rover specialist. They replaced not only routine maintenance items but also known fail points including parts that did not require replacing then and there, but are known to fail. Ie plastic water pipe “Y” in the valley, timing belt, HP fuel pump belt, tensioners, front & rear crank seals, front, rear, transfer case AND gearbox fluids. I am a firm believer of there being no such thing as a lifetime fluid. If there was such a fluid it certainly would not be in an Automatic box that has friction material wearing through every gear change as well as in the lock-up torque converter. If anything a manual gear box would have better chance surviving till the vehicle goes to the scrapyard. Having said that, I would not leave any fluid that long. For me, 80,000km (50,000 miles) would be as long as I would let an automatic gearbox fluid go. I myself will be having the filter replaced and a fluid flush undertaken, not a spill and fill. A much cheaper option than a gearbox replacement. That will be the last one I do in my ownership of the LR3. It will be sold well before a third one is due during my ownership. I have worked with oils albeit HV insulating oils and I can tell you, no oil lasts forever, and those oils have for less stress placed on them than lubricating oils, and they do degrade; all oils do! Diff oils turn black due to wear, mostly heat related just as automatic gearbox fluids fail. BTW, as a Rover owner, I am keen on you doing a video on the Rover you have in for repair. Please do one and post it Ivan.
I use HP tuners to mod tcm to allow lockup in 5th/6th only. You can increase TCC pressure slightly to provide a more secure engagement. Lastly, as others have said, Lubegard Shudder Fix works well too.
I fixed a friends 4l80 with a tcc P0741 code. New valve in the valve body and new TCC solenoid. That got the torque converter clutch working again, and it shuttered like no other🙃. I put 2 bottles of Lubeguard tranny shutter fix and it mostly took care of that. Alternative is $. Told my friend live with it or have the trans rebuilt. He was also complaining of some occasional shift quality issues. Those fwd 6 speed GM's, same. 1 bottle of shutter stopper. If it still does it, add another.
Do you need to drain some of the trans fluid before you add the lubeguard? I have a 4l80 on my truck and it’s doing the same thing like the video and i am currently saving up for a transmission rebuild and am wondering if this would help in the meantime thanks.
I have a 2015 Rav4. The 2013-2014 models had such TC shudder problems that Toyota voluntarily supplemented the warranty. The fix is a new TC, extra magnets in the pan and an updated transmission control module program. (the update reduced the TC lockup at low gears -which caused premature wear) My 2015 was not covered by the warranty even though it had the same problem. At the first signs of shudder i followed a transmission repair technician's advice. Change the fluid and add Shudder Fix. I drained and filled 4 times, added the shudder fix and the issue disappeared overnight. Time will tell how long it lasts.
GM has had a crap ton of problems with transmissions from around 2014 up to 2017-2019. Mostly with the 6L80 and 6L90's. Starts out as a Torque converter problem similar to what you had here and ends up a completely ruined transmission when the converter lets go. The fins inside the torque converter overheat, shatter and sends the fragments throughout the transmission. Working at a GM dealer parts department where I live, we were/are selling anywhere from 60-75 remans a month! One dealer...60-75 transmissions a month. At times GM can't keep up with the rebuilds to supply the demand. GM also says "there's no problems with the transmissions". Really? The running joke when someone comes in to buy parts for a vehicle with a suspected bad Tranny is "better save up for a transmission, cause it's going to need one before 100,000"! The typical way to fix or head off problems before they start is to replace the Torque converter with a good quality Billet converter. The whole thing is sad that GM won't fully take responsibility for engineering screw ups. I believe someone has finally started a class action lawsuit regarding the problems with the transmissions.
GM used a trans cooler bypass thermostat that ran the fluid really hot in order to squeeze a fraction of an MPG out of their vehicles to make the government happy. Everyone that had a 2014 or newer GM half-ton or suv with the 6 speed complained about the transmission running at 190F or as high as 230F when plowing snow. That cooks the fluid really fast and damaged the friction on the torque converter clutch. There's even a TSB and a new bypass thermostat available that keeps the trans fluid down around 160F. If the transmission isn't shuddering yet, better change that bypass thermostat. If the shudder isn't bad, it can be saved. The 8L90's had the issue with the original Dexron HP fluid absorbing moisture and affecting viscosity. Mobil reformulated the trans fluid to address that back around 2019 or 2020 and fixed a lot of issues with that.
I have an Enclave with that trans. Even when the fluid on the stick looks OK what comes out is showing deteriorzation. I dumped mine around 65K and will do it again next oil change. Some folks recommend doing a drain and fill, driving to heat up trans and doing it again when it looks like yours did
When I bought my Ram in 2017 (Model 2014) I asked the service counter about transmission fluid change interval. I already knew what they were going to say but I wanted to see their answer. Without hesitation she said, "They are filled for life." I asked, "Is that the life of the truck, the transmission, my life, or just until it dies on the side of the road?". She shrugged her shoulders and smiled. They know it is BS but that is the line they are given to tell by the manufacture. I changed it out at about 85k. I tow enough that it needs a fresh change. Speaking of which the other vic needs a change soon.
Double drain and fill. Drain and fill, drive it for a bit, let it cool down again and drain and fill a second time. Remember trans fluid expands when it's hot, so it's best to do the drain and fills when it is cold so you refill the correct amount. Add in ShudderFix if that doesn't do it. MaxLife is definitely great in these transmissions, but you gotta drain and fill routinely - I tell people every 20-30k miles, and start with a double or even triple if they haven't done it in a while/ever.
The valve bodies are able to be removed they have plastic like disk in them u can change out fairly easily it should help pretty sure they are warn out..had to do them on my 07 acadia
Yes, change your fluid and filter every 50 to 60,0000 miles!! My family and I have had many 300,000 mile GMs only 3 of them have had transmissions after 180,000 miles. We keep the fluids changed and abuse the vehicles!! My 2001 ZR2 with a 4L60 had 252,000 miles on it when I sold it.. lots of towing and off roading and not one problem with the 4l60... I changed the fluid and filter 4 times...
I had that in my old transmission in my 2006 Avalanche. It was torque converter flutter. Added a bottle of this conditioner designed for that issue and it went away. Transmission lasted another 3 years without that symptom returning. Of course the tranmy blew up later anyway. Had to put three in that truck. $$$
3:30 My own rule about automatic transmission is to replace filter and fluid at 50.000 km (30.000 miles). So far, never had any issues with transmissions, regardless of the vehicle I had at the time...
We were told my wife's 2013 Chevy Sonic had a failing transmission. Shifting hard, some sudden acceleration at low speeds and sudden loss of acceleration, all randomly. I noticed the problem always happened after braking or cornering. I examined the brake pedal thinking maybe it sometimes does not retract completely. I installed a spring I happened to have to put upward pressure on the brake pedal. I disconnected negative on battery to reset the brake pedal sensor. I will be getting the brakes redone, but after a week of driving the problem seems to have gone away.
I’ve used STP stop shudder it’s a very tiny bottle and made to stop chatter and shudder and torque converter shudder. And worked in my 2010 Hyundai sonata and my 05 cavalier. And my last 2013 Honda fit had a torque converter shudder between 3rd and 4th gear on slight hill incline almost like it was gear searching. But wouldn’t shudder if I pressed gas a tiny bit harder. Unfortunately it says on bottle don’t use in FORDs or CVTs But it works instantly
Had same symptoms with Honda CRV’s. Change fluid 3 times with short drive between changes. And completely rid of gear change shutter. AND this actually still only equates to an 80% change of fluid. Trans & Dif. Fluid changes (Honda) should not exceed 30k.
Ford friction modifier works great in my fusion six speed to smooth it out and i change the fluid every year, 230,000 miles so far and it's still good.
super video, thank you! this is exactly the problem I've been trying to diagnose. I'm headed to get the atf fluid now and try this. Thank you for your detail.
We were fighting this in 1986 with the Mitsubishi torque converters. Fluid changes were the answer to help relieve the shock of the lock up feature of the torque converter. With todays transmissions, would recommend fluid changes every 45k miles. These newer transmissions are generating too much heat that destroys the fluid.
@@ckm-mkc Just traded a 2015 Escape with 308k on the clock....trans started slipping when cold. The only trans work done was a complete fluid exchange every 40k...and not one trans issue til the 308k mark.
Always enjoy your vids, just to help others... this was not a fluid flush and fill, it was a drain and fill, which leaves a large amount of oil in the system. When the oil is drained and looks as contaminated as it did in the vid, a flush and fill will give you the best chance of removing the contaminants (and change transmission oil filter if poss). A flush and fill is far more tricky (easier with 2 people) where you remove one of the transmission cooler lines and effectively "pump" the remaining dirty oil out of the system by keeping the transmission topped up with fresh fluid (hence easier with two people). So drain and fill to correct level, remove correct cooler line, I usually start the engine, pump a couple of litres out in to a measuring jug, stop the engine, refill 2 litres and continue to pump fluid out cooler hose until you get clean transmission fluid. Make sure you have plenty of fluid for the flush. Yes, if you do many drain and fills you will "dilute" the contaminants in the old oil, probably OK on a transmission that has regular oil changes and is working correctly, but on problematic transmission give yourself the best chance by doing a flush and fill.
It’s the torque converter solenoid not locking up. You have to take the valve body out and inspect the lower part of it along with a shift kit. There was a TSB for 2013 that addresses this too I believe.
My 2016 Chevy Colorado had same problem, 75K mile transmission service with flush, fill and filter fixed problem. Truch does not have a dipstick to check or add fluid.
Ivan, I use to deal with Chrysler A604 transaxle transmissions a lot. I used the OTC monitor 4000 scan tool. You could check the CVI (clutch volume index). It would give you a good indication of the clutch wear. My question to you is this readout on the newer cars today possible with the Think tool scanner? Sure would be helpful in a situation like this.
You can get CVI and other values which allow you to approximate CVI. However, CVI is not available on some years of FCA products, IRC 2011-14 for some unknown reason. It's the Mercedes trans and you can get CVI on a Mercedes, but not on the FCA variant.....
I learned from ammco that they use trans x posi rear additive and i have used it several times with success. My friend just used it in a 4l80e that was shuddering when hot. After 2 tubes the suddler is 100% gone. I think this is the same as lube guard and many others but the posi additive is much cheaper.
My 2011 is doing that, but the codes that had come up, was something to do with the throttle position sensor & then something miss firing on one of the banks? I cant remember, because the person cleared & reset it & it hasn't come up again.
I'm back because I just recently started feeling the shudder in my traverse (2016 FWD 148,000 miles). I was regularly changing the fluid at about 40k miles using FRAM Dexron VI. I'm gonna switch to Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF Dexron HP and add the shudder fixx to top it off. I hate to pay for 9.5 quarts of Mobil 1 but its better than buying a new torque converter or transmission. If you happen to see this and see that anything I just said I maybe shouldn't do, yell at me LOL.
Change fluid twice and then drive test again. Still got problems transmission repair time check solenoid for transmission use high grade synthetic fluid. Good luck.
You should have done a complete fluid exchange by removing the cooler return line and run into a bucket. Fill as it draining, until the fluid is clean. This is no different that using a machine. That's your best process to get the trans clean. This tcc is never fully locked, its always modulating and has some slip. Remember , when the converter is at a high duty cycle is when the engine is loaded the most. Many engine problems are blamed on the tcc application. That "fish bite" inconsistencies make me wonder.
No, this is not to discredit your work. I watch every episode you do. I think your BRILLIANT, hence people bringing car to you across country. I've always been weary on tcc shudder and "engine hiccups" that's all. Keep up the great work Ivan, we love you.
I own a traverse, what I do is I intentionally take my foot off the gas to switch gears. Not a mechanic, but when you are going uphill and the car does want to change gears, the downshift and up shifting cause the torque converter to cry, so I don’t make the car go to 3k+ in RPMS. Otherwise be gentle on the throttle, I haven’t experienced this issue yet, 250k kms
would a TCM reset help with a new trans fluid flush? I know my Mazda 3 took a reset, shifted terrible for 10 'shift cycles" and then magically mellowed out with no more hiccups.
To make a judgment call on the longevity of this almost 100,000 mile transmission we really need to understand if it was serviced properly. Ivan you need to ask many more questions on the history of the vehicle before taking on work. If the first fluid change was due to lock-up clutch chatter 5000 miles ago and this was the transmissions first service and the problem still persists, the transmission needs to be rebuilt. No need to diagnose it. Driving 5000 miles while it is chattering is a little crazy and will chew up what is left of this worn out clutch. I was surprised to hear on this particular transmission that you can not change the filter without dropping the transmission. This is just crazy. In working with transmission valve bodies the filter is key to minimizing debris, as an example, the tolerances on the spool valves are incredibly tight. Just to clarify on why technicians use a MityVac to swap transmission fluid when a filter change is not need. It is because some transmissions do not have a drain plug and to change the fluid without a MityVac you would have to drop the pan which is very messy (even if you first use a MityVac to get most of the fluid out) and you may require a new pan gasket (even though the OEM is supposedly multi-use) and you have to clean the pan before reinstalling the gasket (best to clean the magnet too), and usually in the salt belt you will need to clean up the transmission pan rails, and then you have to make sure you do not pinch a solenoid harness when reinstalling the pad. The MityVac also gives a very accurate measurement of the fluid removed, although you don't really need to know the volume to replace it (although it is important to determine if you have emptied the pan), you can just mark the tank with a piece of tape and refill at the same level.
I put one of those little read tubes with the pinched off ends in my 1993 crown vic that had never seen any service before I got it and shuddered terribly and it never shuddered again after draining the pitch black fluid. I put it in all my 4R70 transmissions after changing the filter and fluid.
It needs a new torque converter. The lock up clutch feature is likely burned up, not all that uncommon. Transmissions shops will use a BNI replacement, a better quality torque converter. BTW, for only 5,000 miles ago, that fluid draining out of the trans is way too black. Its also a good practice to never flush out trans fluids, especially on high mileage vehicles that never had a fluid change. Its best to simply drain, change filter and refill and the interval is likely best at every 30,000 miles depending on mostly highway miles or city stop and go miles. Fluid is cheap, transmission rebuilds are expensive.
One upon a time a person could unplug a connector and run a car without the TCC lockup. My daughter had a chev cavalier with a sticky lockup valve in the trans, I pulled the connector and she drove it 2 more years without the TCC lockup enabled. Probably not great for gas mileage.
@@lo1234-w9rMy daily driver is an 89 GMC V1500 Suburban...it had the 700R4 overdrive. In town, I have it in drive, only on the highways without traffic do I use overdrive mainly because OD is useless below 40 MPH and it will not allow the engine to slow down the vehicle at all, it coasts. Makes no sense in city or heavy traffic to use OD. In either selection, the torque converter engages lock up. You can tap the brake lights to disengage it and a few other means.
Haven’t watched the video yet. Just had this issue on my in laws nearly new 18 Traverse. Chevy has a TSB. First change fluid with the additive and then change torque converter. Torque converter fixed the problem. They only had 10,000 miles. Dealer said they shudder off the lot. 🤷♂️🤪
I have a 2017 Traverse that is doing the same thing. You are using the Thinktool PROS, my question is can I do the same diagnostics with the PRO. It is about half the price and I want to confirm the issue with my car before deciding what to do with it.
I Just one a day had some input you might be able to purge that torque converter fresh fluid Intero the filler that and bleed on some out of the transmission fluid through cooler line well it's running really like your program keep up the good
I don't think there is anything wrong with the transmission, I think its the torque converter. I'm not very strong at diagnosing transmissions as that was the last thing in my career i focused on because they don't pay well under warranty. I can rebuild them all day with no problems. I would have recommended a transmisison flush which would have hooked into the lines and did a 1-1 exchange, but draining and filling a couple of times will get most of the fluid out and should fix the concern, if it doesn't then the torque converter should be the fix. GM states the fluid is dark like that from the additives put in during assembly such as a vehicle with low miles the fluid will be that dark and is not a concern. Obviously if it smells burnt or full of debris thats a different story. The 8speed mainly have torque converter and valve body problems, some have internal problems, the 9 speeds i've seen burnt clutches, broken hard parts. pretty much every 9 speed gets both valve bodies. I haven't been inside a 10speed yet other than the front cover for a bad pump idler gear. Most customer pay transmission we sell a reman as it comes with a better warranty 3years 100k vs the 12months 12k warranty on the parts replaced.
The torque converter will eventually start shedding metal directly into the transmission and start disintegrating it on top of it constantly burning up the fluid. The whole entire assembly should be replaced. I've had them burn fluid and lockup really weird until I start loosing gears and having to be stranded on the side of the road. I hate automatics for that reason. It seems previous owners don't maintain them and tow heavy objects to their max capacity until it starts burning up the torque converter. Same goes with people towing in over drive. It constantly locks and unlocks the torque converter causing more friction to build up and more heat which burns the fluid up faster.
I'm having weird issues with the transmission in my new car. 2017 cruze that has the 6t40 trans. It has problems shifting, shuddering like the engine is heaving misfiring on acceleration. Sometimes it slips and slams 3rd gear on a soft shift. The TCM notices too much slip between shift and applies high pressure to slam the clutch. This issue has been known to break the transmission case by slamming the assembly against the lock ring and it breaks pieces out of the case. Not DTC's stored, but I don't expect the engine light to come on until it completely breaks and leaves me on the side of the road. It is also one of those cars that the dealer did a 107 point inspection on and put "no dipstick" on check and fill transmission fluid and told me the full service was done on it, which I doubt. This trans is easy to do a fluid change by the drain plug and there is a fill plug by the axle shaft. Kinda like filling up a diff. Luckily it still drives ok and gets great gas mileage but hopefully it breaks before the warranty is out.
Nice video. I would drain fluid one more time and flush cooler and lines. There’s a product called Dr Shudder fix and it seems to help. I did a Transmission on my old Crown Vic and it helped. Paul has a video where he used it on one of his brother’s customer car and it seemed to work too.
I own a 09 tahoe with the 6l80 255k miles. Started having issue on the highway in 6th gear with he converter locking and unlocking rapidly like this traverase. A few months later the converter let go on a road trip and wiped the fluid pump and clutches. (I knew better but kept driving it.) I would say do the converter now on this one based on the rapid locking and unlocking. I would say this is more than a shudder. Had a customer with a cadillac cts 8 speed with a bad shudder. Perfoemed fluid service with new fluid and problem went away completely. The new fluid was the mobil 1 hp fluid in the service bulletin. Ford 6r80 is bad for this too
On some colorados and 2nd gen traverses people have used dexron HP which they said helped with the shudder. There is no statement saying dexron 6 and dexron are compatible tho. Plus some Lube Gard
I had a similar problem with my 2013 traverse front drive. Turned out to be sparkplug, not setting any misfire codes...changed all 6, never happened again.
With the fluid looking that bad, why wouldn’t you do an actual flush? As in the one where you remove a cooler line and run it at an idle pumping it out until it stops, then refil, and do again until the fluid comes out clean?
I’m a GM trans tech and part of the issue with TCC failure is that the TCC pressure valve solenoid is PWM controlled by the TCM. It’s not an on/off switch. So when you get degraded fluid the PID parameters that control the PWM out put of the solenoid can easily lose control of the TCC. Drain and fill normally fixes it if caught early enough.
Makes sense. Wish there was a programming update to make the TCC on or off instead of partial slip!
The way the TCM constantly adapts the TCC engagement would be too harsh for most people. It would feel like tow/haul mode all the time.
Why GM make AT that are worthless peaces of crap???🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
It doesn't help that GM decided they should use a trans cooler bypass to run the fluid hotter than they should in order to boost fuel economy 0.05%. If GM gave customers the choice of either cooking their trans fluid prematurely for a tiny fuel economy boost, or burning a tiny bit more fuel but the transmission runs cooler, no rational human being would opt for cooking the trans fluid. I tell people all the time, with these GM 6 speeds, you have to change it way more often than what GM claims in the service schedule.
@@skylineir34 I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Toyota 8-speeds had the exact same issues with torque converter clutches failing. The Camry in particular. Honda has had torque converter clutch shudder and failures for years. The 2nd gen Ridgeline is particularly vulnerable if the owner uses it like a truck. Manufacturers are trying to squeeze MPG's out of vehicles any way they can thanks to the idiotic government insisting big CAFE averages year after year.
A little more than 30,000 miles ago I put in Lubegard Platinum ATF protectant (a shudder fix).
With fresh fluid and it's been perfect since. I mean perfect. No strange incidents since.
In a case like this, nothing to lose. I’d give it a try.
I was going to suggest ATP AT-202 ATF protectant, basically the same thing.
Yea. Lubegard 60K miles ago is the lost opportunity.
Knowing the history of these transmission, Lubegard Instant Shudder Fixx also.
I've used Lubegard product for over 20 years. They don't fix broke. But they do a good job of taking the rough edges off shifting and overdrive locking unhappiness.
The customer wanted "the new car transmission feel" again. So sad at 95K it is going to cost $5K to get it back.
@@roadshowerun1770 The stuff is amazing. I did a spill and fill 2X on a '13 Escape and added that and it got rid of it.
I sure wish there was someone like you who understand this stuff and can figure out what is actually wrong with a vehicle rather than just throwing parts at it and hope it fixes it....
Ivan, My procedure is to get the trans up to operating temp and pull the Cooler line at the trans. Using a length of Hose Adapter pipe, and a bucket I exchange all the Trans Fluid. 2 Qts out; Stop and add 2qts. I did my wife's Traverse and also used 1 pint of BG trans additive after the process was finished. That ensures all that crap fluid is gone. 10-11 qts. to accomplish. And much better results I find than a D&F.
That may be good preventive maintenance, but my experience is, if the fluid is dark or smells odd, it is already TOO LATE !
That the same way I have been doing tranny fluid changes for years & never had a failure yet.
17 Colorado with the 8 speed, total and utter junk. Even after 2 fluid changes and eventually a torque converter replacement by the dealer for this well known problem, they said it was fine but it was not. It would clank and bang gear changes, random lack of drive when cool at first junction of the day (scary) and had a super annoying slight slippage/lock/slip/lock cruising on the highway.
I dumped it at 45k and bought a Highlander with 220k in great condition and absolutely everything still works perfectly.
I drove a friends 2019 Colorado with that 8 speed. Truck only had 55k on it, shuttered like no other. I changed the fluid out with the Mobil 1 HP and it took care of it. Not sure for how long but...
Yep. Good by Traverse
Highlander is great choice. Recently bought one. 13 at 144k.
I think you're one of the best UA-camrs there is. Your patience with shooting the shots and narration is fantastic. I'm retired but I learn a little every time watching your videos. I had no idea what one could do with diagnostic technology that you use as well as you do. Thanks! Ed
Hey Ed I appreciate the feedback! 🙂👍
I’ve been experiencing this on and off for about a year now. Thanks for making this video!
instant shudder fixx worked great for me on an infinity qx80. I couldn't believe 2 0z. of this stuff and 4 qts of fresh trans fluid worked. Factory updated calibration did nothing. Many cars use PWM to control the tcc lockup to make it shift smooth. On my GMC Yukon I can program it with HP Turners to extend converter life.
The infamous shared GM and Ford transmission! Fresh fluid and lube guard shrudder fix should do it. Dex 6 or Maxlife synthetic will do the trick.
Exactly. He either missed or doesn't know about Shutter Fix. Most likely would solve the rest of the problem.
I have a '20 that just started doing some weird shuddering when moving from dead stop. Not very frequently. It's got 44k miles. Would you recommend a fluid change and shudder fix? Or just keep an eye on it?
Do a drain and fill with a dedicated Dexron VI fluid and you’ll see improvement
@brettmiller7984 I just did a drain and filter replacement at 86,000 miles on my 4t60e. I used Acdelco Dexron VI and now my vehicle is shifting hard at every gear.
I'm getting a slip at or around 50 miles an hour. Not always changing the fluid works. I used Acdelco dexron that is for gm.
This world is pathetic.
How can vehicles trans be going out before 100k. This car was babied.
Got a 17 impala premier and I've tried everything accept throwing this mfkr off a cliff😒 and I really love the car unless I'm driving it smfh right that part.
We put the shudder stuff in every one we have come in the shop for a shudder. Works great. The converter clutch doesn't ever lock up solid so it wears constantly. It is pulsed applied too.
I own 2 GM products so i change mine often. Transmission fluid is often overlooked but so very important. I do a spill and fill on both my vehicles every 20K miles. It's cheap insurance for your Transmission. And super easy to do.
That’s smart
Good call. I do complete flush every 30 k since new. The Santa fe tranny still runs good even with towing the boat and occasionally running it at 200-220 f
I welded an O2 bung with plug on my 6L80 pan and do a spill & fill every 2nd oil change (4K). It gets half the fluid but it stays pretty fresh.
I had a similiar problem with a 2006 Honda CRV with 200k miles. Changing fluids x 3 helped but not completely. As a Hail Mary, I added a product which promised to help/cure. The product is Lubegard 19610 Instant Shudder Fixx, 2 oz. Unbelievably, it worked and the fix lasted 20k miles. When some slight shudder returned I repeated the Lubegard. Still working 30k later. Honestly, I was shocked.
That's impressive!
I had a similar issue with Chrysler 62TE. Nice shudder post fluid change. I tried another change and it helped for a bit. But ultimately, it was the torque converter failure that was turning the fluid brown. Ultimately the fix was a Gary Ferraro transmission rebuild. Literally went all the way to Hempstead to get it from him. 2 hours drive
Ya should change the fluid ever 30 40k and ya wont have them issues.
@@eddiereichel9354 TC clutches are a wear item, no amount of fluid changes is going to stop that. Might delay it a bit, but that's about it.
@@eddiereichel9354 I changed mine at 90k. But I don't think I could have saved it. I will change it on the new one. One thing we used to do that we don't anymore is #1, the ecomode stays off. Evo mode I think makes the torque converter lock up faster.#2 we don't downshift down hills anymore. Breaks are cheaper than transmissions
@@ckm-mkc What your saying makes no sense. Fluid slows the wear down and I dont care what lab you use to test fluid with 90k on it is worse than fresh fluid.
I worked at a trans shop for 10 years, to prove it was a TCC friction material issue, we would add half a bottle of motorcraft friction modifier (stinky stuff) let the vehicle run for about 10 minutes and go drive within about 3 tcc engagements if it's lining related it will go away and sometimes it actually I'll go away for quite a longtime. But this is mostly used for diagnostic purposes but we did have a silverado that decided not to replace converter and came back 3 years later with no reverse but said tcc was still working good. Also these traverses had a tcm flash that would keep the converter from locking up in lower gears to keep it from chucking and lugging down the engine at slow speeds. But was only to be used as a customer concern not as a standard to do to all that used that 6 spd trans. The idea for using PWM tcc control is to make the application of the clutch soft, like a soft shift, I agree full engagement all at once would prolong clutch lining life, and most truck applications, especially the 4l60e and 4l80e we'd block off the pwm tcc valve in the valve body so when the main on- off tcc solenoid came on it would apply the tcc fully all at once and it basically eliminated an tcc lining warranty issues long term, they used a pwm solenoid and just an on off solenoid togther on those transmissions
2020 XT6 shuttered at 1500 RPM, Highway speeds, going uphill before it downshifted. The recommended trans fluid change is 45 K. I reached that mileage and changed the fluid which was very brown. Drain for more than a 1/2 hour till the stream stops. I measured 5.5 quarts that came out. Installed 5.5 quarts Moble one High-Performance Full Synthetic LV Automatic Transmission Fluid HP, and fixed the shutter
We used to run into this all the time with 2010-2018 acura's. A fluid flush fixed 95% of them. A few did require torque converter replacements. Its probably the same crummy manufacturer for the torque converters
The 04 through 09 Acuras, Gen 3, also require routine fluid drain and fill, and oftentimes the 3 and 4th gear pressure switches would need to be replaced anyway.
Honda put out TSB's for the 2nd gen Ridgeline. Same thing. TCC shudder leading to TC replacement. Toyota caught some heat for the 8-speed having TC failures too. Not uncommon with Camry's equipped with the 8-speed. You're probably right about it being a OEM issue. More "sustainable" ie cheap friction being used or something.
No lie Ivan, just flushed and replaced tranny filter and fluids on my X5 today. You have taught me well master! 😂😂😂😂
Nice video Ivan. Just an FYI... On my 2013 Traverse I flushed out at the trans cooler return and filled at the same time until spilling red fresh fluid. Only used about 3 gallons but well worth the effort. Videos out there somewhere I learned from. Use clear vinyl hose.
Got a 2010 Traverse I've been wanting to do this on. Which one is the transmission cooler return..the top or bottom line into the radiator? Thanks.
20 years ago, a drunk driver totalled our car (Volvo, no injuries), we needed a replacement fast. We had three kids so a minivan was an acceptable option.
Went to look at a 90s Chrysler minivan. Everything checked out. The owner said "Look, I'll be right up front with you, the transmission shudders and bucks. My mechanic said it'll need a new transmission, and I don't want to mess with it, I'd rather sell. But of course I'll take that cost off the sale price." I looked it up on the internet and read that you had to use the specific 7176 Chrysler fluid in that transmission. I told the guy and he was like, well, maybe, but I think you'll need a transmission anyway. So I bought it at his discounted price.
I bought the 7176 fluid and a filter, drained the old fluid out, put the correct fluid in. On the test drive it still shuddered, at first. But then it just started working, I guess the fluid had to flush through. It shifted like buttah from then on.
The dipstick said use 7176 OR Dexron-4. I'm pretty sure I drained out dexron-r4 - it sure worked better with 7176. So I stuck with it.
The six speed was a joint venture between Ford and GM. The early versions had serious problems like broken wavy plates and bad torque converters. A serious design flaw was the internal non replacement filter. Tells you the expectation was about 100k miles before failure.
Does this go back to like roughly 2000/2002 era? For ford it’s the 6F35?
@@mikebuffing727 2000/2002 No, it was developed in 2006 but yes it is the design used in the 6F35, 6F50, & 6F55. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-Ford_6-speed_automatic_transmission
I also experience Torque Converter Shudder in my 2010 Taurus with the 6F55 but that was at over 240k miles. One thing to note is the low viscosity fluids used in these transmissions gets dark quick.
Why GM don't make reliable cars in general????🤔🤔🤔🤔
You hit the nail on the head. These transmissions won’t go 100,000 plus without changing fluid. I don’t know if it is the modifiers or just accumulation of particles. We took our 2020 traverse to a local 40 year trans shop and had it flushed before we got symptoms. I learned from our 2011 traverse. It started shuddering at 100,00 miles. We just baby it. It has about 250,000 on it now. I spill and fill often and add modifiers. Don’t wait for symptoms. Find a reputable trans place to flush it properly.
@@haroldyoungblood8287 The problem is that manufacturers are forced to program the trannys to upshift too soon for higher MPG and lower emissions. But this strains the trans and causes the clutch packs to slip more than usual as they try to stay engaged. The result is worn clutch material and metal dust that turns the fluid into a black slurry. 60K miles is about the max between fluid changes.
Lubeguard shift shield/shudder fix or Ford Motorcraft limited slip XL3 friction modifier. Works on all transmissions. Was once a Ford field fix for TCC shudder/rumble strips light throttle. Makes the clutches/ATF run cooler too.
"Allegedly" Mercon ULV fluid has the XL3 blended in when bottled. 👍
I always figured Mopar ATF 3 had some kind of friction modifier in it too. When I worked in the shop and had lots of extra on hand I would run it in place of Mercon V and Dexron III on my cars for a good smooth shift. Viscosity on that old stuff might not work in some places though. @@johnriley7053
Many miles away from home, I blew a transmission line on the highway. The shop who repaired the lines topped-off the transmission fluid. Shortly after I got a shutter when ascending an uphill grade. I changed the fluid and added some Lubegard 19610 Instant Shudder Fixx, 2 oz. And it never shuttered again.
Sounds like they used some cheap generic ATF. When it comes to ATF, the best bet is to always use the OE fluid. Folks like valvoline and mobile try to make universal ATFs, but that results quite a few comprises that have been known to cause issues with transmissions. Basically, brand matters, unlike engine oil, because where the oil weight/viscosity for engine oil is the spec, the brand name (mercon v/lv, dextron iv/vi, honda HC-1, ect) is the spec, so multi spec ATF is akin to trying to make an oil that works perfectly in anything from a geo metro to semi.
TCC shudder seems to be quite a common issue with many modern automatics, getting fresh fluid in them before the shudder gets too bad tends to help but it's usually not a permanent fix.
I think alot of the problem is most of them never fully lock the converter clutch, most seem to target around a 30-50 RPM slip even when the converter clutch is "locked" so there is always wear taking place on the converter clutch disk(s), couple that with there not being much material on the clutch to begin with and you have premature failures.
Yeah, I personally think a TCC should either be on or off, not constantly slipping. I have no problem with using PWM control to smoothly apply the clutch, but once it's engaged, it should be fully engaged until it needs to be disengaged. I don't see any real benefit to letting the clutch slip constantly and, as you said, it definitely wears the friction material. From my understanding, the idea is that the clutch slippage absorbs some of the engine's vibrations for a smoother experience, but if that's really so important, how do the same model cars with the same engine bolted to a manual transmission drive just as smoothly with a direct connection and no slippage at all?
My 18 Chevy Colorado Diesel w/ the 6 speed is VERY sensitive to trans fluid quality. About half-way into my latest tranny fluid service interval, I started getting both a) shudder at low power levels and up-shifting and b) harsh abrupt shifts at moderate to high power levels. I added 8-10oz of tranny friction modifier and the tranny shifts like new.
Recommend: if you're still more than 10k miles out from a change, drain about 8-10oz from the tranny and replace that volume with a quality friction modifier OR flush and fill early.
Indeed, the constantly slipping TCC seems like just a bad idea.
They have been slipping the tc for decades with no issues. The “pwm” style TCC setups usually have a lot more friction material than standard on/off systems. There needs to be some slip imo, a few rpm, to act as a damper for NVH from the engine, but it should still fully lock under moderate load situations. Like a hill or with a trailer.
@@JackS425 But there have been issues as proven by this video and many others on many different vehicles. And if they have to constantly slip the clutch for NVH reasons, can anyone explain how manual transmission vehicles drive so smoothly with no clutch slippage at all? The theory makes sense, but if it was such a big issue, wouldn't manual transmissions drive noticeably rougher?
I've had good results adding Lucas Transmission fix after a spill and fill.
WHY DO THEY MAKE TRANSMISSIONS WITH A NOT SERVICABLE FILTER AND WITHOUT DIPSTICK???😡
Planned obsolescence
Pretty much every trans has a way of checking level. It keeps the general public from screwing up the trans under warranty by doing something like adding the wrong fluid.
and, converters that can’t be drained????
That's cause they want to work on your vehicle to make money. It's all common logic to make them more money. But if you're mechanically incline. You can just service it yourself and save those money for something else. I work on all of my own vehicle so stealership will never see the vehicle ever again. Unless they can give me a really great deal then just maybe I'll let them service it for an arm and a leg. Bad deal and they can kiss my ass they'll never see the vehicle again once it leaves the lot.
Because most folks dont bother with servicing the tranny untill its already 2 feet in the grave, hence the rumor that changing your tranny fluid if you waited too long kills the tranny (FYSA, changing your tranny fluid will never kill your transmission unless you forget to refill it and then try to drive it down the road). Therefore, the manufacturers decided to develop "lifetime fluids" and engineer out the details that make tranny fluid easy to service in order to cut down on manufacturing costs and service plan expenses. So no, its not planned obsolescence driven by some devious corporate exec, its manufacturers doing what auto manufacturers have done since the invenof the automotive: that is, not caring how long the vehicle lasts past the warranty period, and looking for anyway to cut costs that isn't going to cause customers to go to other brands.
Just did that on the 'ol Marquis; drained the torque converter and changed the filter. I can assure you of one thing, Ivan, you are NOT changing that transmission. The last transmission I remember you changed was on a RWD Lexus. GREAT VIDEO!
He replaced the trans in his wife's Rogue.
@@truracer20 hopefully I won't have to do that again anytime soon 😆
@@truracer20 Yes. That was before the Lexus. While he was out-of-town his wife's Rogue broke down due to a mouse nest blocking the mass airflow sensor. She thought the transmission blew up again. He emphatically said he was NOT changing the transmission again. Wouldn't it be funny if it did?
I have a 2008 GMC Acadia with very similar shutter. A Chevy dealership diagnosed it to be a failing trans. They did nothing more than test drive it and check for codes and fluid level. They did not offer a fluid change or anything else.
A local "Honest" Transmision shop never saw the vehicle but discussed the history and issues I was having and recommended Lube Guard additive for the issue. He said otherwise it would likely be a complete rebuild. He had like 3 cases of the stuff in his parts room. Says he needs to use it on many of the modern transmissions to get them to perform properly.
I used the lube guard additive as recommended and 75% of the shutter went away. The rest of the shutter went away after I replaced the spark plugs as it was due. Shutter is gone!!
The trans had been replaced before I bought the car and at that time it was shifting normally. It had about 60k on it when the shutter started and I changed the trans oil, which did not help.
I am a retired firetruck mechanic with Allison experience and couldn't not keep myself from removing the valve body. Solenoids are unservicabel. valve body is very pricey. I cleaned it like an Allison and put it back together. No change. That is when I used the Lube Guard atf protectant.
Not a mechanic in a can kind of guy, but it fixed my trans shutter. Have had no issues for 50k.
Time to service the trans again!
Great channel. Being retired I miss diagnosing firetrucks. I was pretty good at it due to the very competent training from corporate vendors.
My old Chevy Trailblazer had recurring transmission issues, and the dealer did the repair each time. By the 3rd failure, I had enough (the torque converter lockup was disengaging and re-engaging at highway speeds with very LOUD 'BANGs). I went to an 'olde tyme' transmission place, and bought a re-manufactured transmission from Jasper. No further issues. However, I later found out that there was a SB out on this very fault (Water intrusion in the ATF via the dipstick tube) and the dealer never followed the corrective remedy.
You don't need a new transmission, only a torque converter - the lockup is in the TC, not the trans....
Shuddering can basically be cured by adding Lubegard Instant Shudder Fixx. If it's a torque converter clutch problem, it'll probably cure it. Add a second tube if needed. I do recommend changing to whatever the latest recommended fluid is first (might just be good Dexron VI). Remember that torque converters have been PWM for 20+ years and most of them are designed to actually slip during engagement. If it locks up and holds manually that is a good sign and my recommendation will probably work.
Aw man, customer got rid of the vehicle. This would have been a good case study for the additive. It really does work. Oh well.
@kevin9c1 I worked at a trans shop for 10 years, to prove it was a TCC friction material issue, we would add half a bottle of motorcraft friction modifier (stinky stuff) let the vehicle run for about 10 minutes and go drive within about 3 tcc engagements if it's lining related it will go away and sometimes it actually I'll go away for quite a longtime. But this is mostly used for diagnostic purposes but we did have a silverado that decided not to replace converter and came back 3 years later with no reverse but said tcc was still working good. Also these traverses had a tcm flash that would keep the converter from locking up in lower gears to keep it from chucking and lugging down the engine at slow speeds. But was only to be used as a customer concern not as a standard to do to all that used that 6 spd trans. The idea for using PWM tcc control is to make the application of the clutch soft, like a soft shift, I agree full engagement all at once would prolong clutch lining life, and most truck applications, especially the 4l60e and 4l80e we'd block off the pwm tcc valve in the valve body so when the main on- off tcc solenoid came on it would apply the tcc fully all at once and it basically eliminated an tcc lining warranty issues long term, they used a pwm solenoid and just an on off solenoid togther on those transmissions
@@natersalad889 Yeah, PWM TCC apply has been around since 1995 in the 4L60E as far as I remember. I think that transmission control update also applied to the 5L50 as I had an STS with that issue. Still required the additive but the additive and fluid maintenance made the problem essentially go away.
I have a similar issue with my 2015 Impala. They say that this is a common issue with this particular transmission. However, my previous car was a 2012 Impala with the same transmission, and in the 8 years I had that car I never had this issue. I was considering trying to get it fixed, but between the high costs and time I'd be without my car, it'd probably be more trouble than what it's worth, especially since it really is a minor annoyance as you said.
Right there with you brother. My wife’s 2016 Impala has the same problem. I THINK I have it narrowed down to a leaking or stuck valve/actuator/accumulator in the valve body. I thought about just using the parts cannon approach and throwing a Sonnax Zip Kit in there, but would really rather narrow it down more because I don’t want to go through the trouble of installing the zip kit and find out it is a clutch boost or TCC control valve that isn’t included in the zip kit. How is your fuel mileage?
@@athhud it's just under 20 mpg
I have same issues starting in my 13 lt at 175k , dint drain or fill or flush since 100k said on car fax fluids dark but not burnt I get the rpm glide n shit shifts a hard down shifts got about 50 miles with one tube shutter fix with old fluid in still dint help don't have cash for a drain and fill for at least a month let alone it breaking completely
My mpg is same 21 avg
I've replaced many torque converters in 6T70E transmissions for this exact concern for TCC clutch material degradation.
Hey after hearing about the shaking from you and the comments here I wanted to share what I found out. As an owner of a 2017 Cadillac CTS 2.0 turbo I got with 88k km on it, I noticed the same shaking when I drove it between 50 - 60 mph or 75 - 80 km going upwill on cruise control. After a lot of discussion around the issue I found out it to be called a “torque shudder”. I found out it’s common will these cars that don’t get transmission flushes done on them on time. In fact this cars transmission wasn’t changed at all! The fix for this torque shudder is to pour roughly 10 litres of trans fluid through it as a super flush. It cost around $1300 but it was recommended by GM. Once it got done the problem completely went away forever. Never had the issue come up. In fact I got it done on my second 2016 Cadillac CTS 3.6 as well as that car also had that shuddering. (Though not as bad ). If you need a mechanic from gm to talk to I can hook you up.
My brother's Silverado is doing the exact same thing. Hopefully a fluid change will help his as he is currently pricing transmissions.
It won’t.
The fluid that you use matters, what year is the truck ? 6 speed, 8 speed or 10 speed ?
It's not the transmission, it's the torque converter - should be around $250 - try to buy a Transtar Recon - they have the best warranty.
@@ckm-mkc Sure plus the time or the labor to swap it. Then $100 in fluid plus any additional other parts required.
My 2017 Ridgeline has a problem with this. Changing the fluids in the trans does fix it. Honda claims it is the guild is getting overheated. They want you to dump and fill three times and they should fix it till the next fluid change. I just dump my fluid at every oil change and the problem hasn’t come back.
I install a Magnafine transmission filter inline in the cooler line. I don't like the non serviceable filter on some transmissions. Easier to keep the fluid clean.
Friend had a similar issue we had to drain and fill 3 times before the fluid looked good after some driving. Then it was fine. Its nonsense that there is no serviceable filter. They could have just put an oil filter type filter externally on the design.
Planned obsolescence
With a tuning software (e.g. Hptuners) the tcc programming tables can be modified to an on/off operation, eliminating the gradual pwm based engagement. It can correct these symptoms sometimes for the lifetime of the car.
I have a sealed for life automatic transmission in my diesel LR3. I bought it second hand a few years ago. The seller was a Rover specialist. They replaced not only routine maintenance items but also known fail points including parts that did not require replacing then and there, but are known to fail. Ie plastic water pipe “Y” in the valley, timing belt, HP fuel pump belt, tensioners, front & rear crank seals, front, rear, transfer case AND gearbox fluids.
I am a firm believer of there being no such thing as a lifetime fluid. If there was such a fluid it certainly would not be in an Automatic box that has friction material wearing through every gear change as well as in the lock-up torque converter. If anything a manual gear box would have better chance surviving till the vehicle goes to the scrapyard. Having said that, I would not leave any fluid that long. For me, 80,000km (50,000 miles) would be as long as I would let an automatic gearbox fluid go. I myself will be having the filter replaced and a fluid flush undertaken, not a spill and fill. A much cheaper option than a gearbox replacement. That will be the last one I do in my ownership of the LR3. It will be sold well before a third one is due during my ownership.
I have worked with oils albeit HV insulating oils and I can tell you, no oil lasts forever, and those oils have for less stress placed on them than lubricating oils, and they do degrade; all oils do! Diff oils turn black due to wear, mostly heat related just as automatic gearbox fluids fail.
BTW, as a Rover owner, I am keen on you doing a video on the Rover you have in for repair. Please do one and post it Ivan.
Land Rover video coming very soon :)
I use HP tuners to mod tcm to allow lockup in 5th/6th only. You can increase TCC pressure slightly to provide a more secure engagement. Lastly, as others have said, Lubegard Shudder Fix works well too.
I fixed a friends 4l80 with a tcc P0741 code. New valve in the valve body and new TCC solenoid. That got the torque converter clutch working again, and it shuttered like no other🙃. I put 2 bottles of Lubeguard tranny shutter fix and it mostly took care of that. Alternative is $. Told my friend live with it or have the trans rebuilt. He was also complaining of some occasional shift quality issues.
Those fwd 6 speed GM's, same. 1 bottle of shutter stopper. If it still does it, add another.
Do you need to drain some of the trans fluid before you add the lubeguard? I have a 4l80 on my truck and it’s doing the same thing like the video and i am currently saving up for a transmission rebuild and am wondering if this would help in the meantime thanks.
I have a 2015 Rav4. The 2013-2014 models had such TC shudder problems that Toyota voluntarily supplemented the warranty. The fix is a new TC, extra magnets in the pan and an updated transmission control module program. (the update reduced the TC lockup at low gears -which caused premature wear) My 2015 was not covered by the warranty even though it had the same problem. At the first signs of shudder i followed a transmission repair technician's advice. Change the fluid and add Shudder Fix. I drained and filled 4 times, added the shudder fix and the issue disappeared overnight. Time will tell how long it lasts.
Solid video Ivan. I appreciate your insight and enjoy the diagnosis.
I worked at 2 GMC Dealerships as a Line tech and PDI specialist. I saw more than a few of these low on fluid from the factory.
GM has had a crap ton of problems with transmissions from around 2014 up to 2017-2019. Mostly with the 6L80 and 6L90's. Starts out as a Torque converter problem similar to what you had here and ends up a completely ruined transmission when the converter lets go. The fins inside the torque converter overheat, shatter and sends the fragments throughout the transmission. Working at a GM dealer parts department where I live, we were/are selling anywhere from 60-75 remans a month! One dealer...60-75 transmissions a month. At times GM can't keep up with the rebuilds to supply the demand. GM also says "there's no problems with the transmissions". Really? The running joke when someone comes in to buy parts for a vehicle with a suspected bad Tranny is "better save up for a transmission, cause it's going to need one before 100,000"! The typical way to fix or head off problems before they start is to replace the Torque converter with a good quality Billet converter. The whole thing is sad that GM won't fully take responsibility for engineering screw ups. I believe someone has finally started a class action lawsuit regarding the problems with the transmissions.
GM used a trans cooler bypass thermostat that ran the fluid really hot in order to squeeze a fraction of an MPG out of their vehicles to make the government happy. Everyone that had a 2014 or newer GM half-ton or suv with the 6 speed complained about the transmission running at 190F or as high as 230F when plowing snow. That cooks the fluid really fast and damaged the friction on the torque converter clutch. There's even a TSB and a new bypass thermostat available that keeps the trans fluid down around 160F. If the transmission isn't shuddering yet, better change that bypass thermostat. If the shudder isn't bad, it can be saved. The 8L90's had the issue with the original Dexron HP fluid absorbing moisture and affecting viscosity. Mobil reformulated the trans fluid to address that back around 2019 or 2020 and fixed a lot of issues with that.
I have an Enclave with that trans. Even when the fluid on the stick looks OK what comes out is showing deteriorzation. I dumped mine around 65K and will do it again next oil change. Some folks recommend doing a drain and fill, driving to heat up trans and doing it again when it looks like yours did
When I bought my Ram in 2017 (Model 2014) I asked the service counter about transmission fluid change interval. I already knew what they were going to say but I wanted to see their answer. Without hesitation she said, "They are filled for life." I asked, "Is that the life of the truck, the transmission, my life, or just until it dies on the side of the road?". She shrugged her shoulders and smiled. They know it is BS but that is the line they are given to tell by the manufacture. I changed it out at about 85k. I tow enough that it needs a fresh change. Speaking of which the other vic needs a change soon.
Brown fluid always means burnt clutches usually caused by low pressure for some reason. the trans will fail in the future
I change fluid in my Rogue CVT every 20kmi. Now has 120kmi on it. Fingers crossed.
Double drain and fill. Drain and fill, drive it for a bit, let it cool down again and drain and fill a second time. Remember trans fluid expands when it's hot, so it's best to do the drain and fills when it is cold so you refill the correct amount. Add in ShudderFix if that doesn't do it. MaxLife is definitely great in these transmissions, but you gotta drain and fill routinely - I tell people every 20-30k miles, and start with a double or even triple if they haven't done it in a while/ever.
The valve bodies are able to be removed they have plastic like disk in them u can change out fairly easily it should help pretty sure they are warn out..had to do them on my 07 acadia
Yes, change your fluid and filter every 50 to 60,0000 miles!!
My family and I have had many 300,000 mile GMs only 3 of them have had transmissions after 180,000 miles.
We keep the fluids changed and abuse the vehicles!!
My 2001 ZR2 with a 4L60 had 252,000 miles on it when I sold it.. lots of towing and off roading and not one problem with the 4l60...
I changed the fluid and filter 4 times...
That black oil suggests a slipping clutch, likely the converter lockup clutch.
Yup 😊
Trans-medic shutter fix usually works for me used it 80 thousand miles ago with fluid change and still no problem.
Coming from a guy who rebuilds transmissions use ford XL3. Best additive for fixing TCC slip
I had that in my old transmission in my 2006 Avalanche. It was torque converter flutter. Added a bottle of this conditioner designed for that issue and it went away. Transmission lasted another 3 years without that symptom returning. Of course the tranmy blew up later anyway. Had to put three in that truck. $$$
3:30 My own rule about automatic transmission is to replace filter and fluid at 50.000 km (30.000 miles). So far, never had any issues with transmissions, regardless of the vehicle I had at the time...
Have to pull the trans and split it to change filter on these transmissions
We were told my wife's 2013 Chevy Sonic had a failing transmission. Shifting hard, some sudden acceleration at low speeds and sudden loss of acceleration, all randomly. I noticed the problem always happened after braking or cornering. I examined the brake pedal thinking maybe it sometimes does not retract completely. I installed a spring I happened to have to put upward pressure on the brake pedal. I disconnected negative on battery to reset the brake pedal sensor. I will be getting the brakes redone, but after a week of driving the problem seems to have gone away.
I’ve used STP stop shudder it’s a very tiny bottle and made to stop chatter and shudder and torque converter shudder. And worked in my 2010 Hyundai sonata and my 05 cavalier. And my last 2013 Honda fit had a torque converter shudder between 3rd and 4th gear on slight hill incline almost like it was gear searching. But wouldn’t shudder if I pressed gas a tiny bit harder.
Unfortunately it says on bottle don’t use in FORDs or CVTs
But it works instantly
Great diagnostics and certainly not an issue prone to GM only.
Pull off a cooler line and pour 12 quarts through it while running.
EXACTLY
Had same symptoms with Honda CRV’s. Change fluid 3 times with short drive between changes. And completely rid of gear change shutter. AND this actually still only equates to an 80% change of fluid. Trans & Dif. Fluid changes (Honda) should not exceed 30k.
Also did filter changes. (2 vehicles).Honda & Acura in area doesn’t even know filters exist 😢
@@donborden5311they know they exist on some of the trans-but they are not recommended to be changed. 30k fluid changes prevent the issues mainly.
Ford friction modifier works great in my fusion six speed to smooth it out and i change the fluid every year, 230,000 miles so far and it's still good.
I suspect the friction modifier is the same stuff used in limited slip differentials to prevent the chatter during turns caused by the clutches.
super video, thank you! this is exactly the problem I've been trying to diagnose. I'm headed to get the atf fluid now and try this. Thank you for your detail.
Ivan, torque converter clutch will come apart in these the trans runs hot at 225 - 240 cooks the the Dexron 6 fluid quickly, needs a new updated tc.
We were fighting this in 1986 with the Mitsubishi torque converters. Fluid changes were the answer to help relieve the shock of the lock up feature of the torque converter. With todays transmissions, would recommend fluid changes every 45k miles. These newer transmissions are generating too much heat that destroys the fluid.
The TC clutches will eventually wear no matter what you do, usually above 120k.
@@ckm-mkc Just traded a 2015 Escape with 308k on the clock....trans started slipping when cold. The only trans work done was a complete fluid exchange every 40k...and not one trans issue til the 308k mark.
Always enjoy your vids, just to help others... this was not a fluid flush and fill, it was a drain and fill, which leaves a large amount of oil in the system.
When the oil is drained and looks as contaminated as it did in the vid, a flush and fill will give you the best chance of removing the contaminants (and change transmission oil filter if poss). A flush and fill is far more tricky (easier with 2 people) where you remove one of the transmission cooler lines and effectively "pump" the remaining dirty oil out of the system by keeping the transmission topped up with fresh fluid (hence easier with two people).
So drain and fill to correct level, remove correct cooler line, I usually start the engine, pump a couple of litres out in to a measuring jug, stop the engine, refill 2 litres and continue to pump fluid out cooler hose until you get clean transmission fluid. Make sure you have plenty of fluid for the flush. Yes, if you do many drain and fills you will "dilute" the contaminants in the old oil, probably OK on a transmission that has regular oil changes and is working correctly, but on problematic transmission give yourself the best chance by doing a flush and fill.
It’s the torque converter solenoid not locking up. You have to take the valve body out and inspect the lower part of it along with a shift kit. There was a TSB for 2013 that addresses this too I believe.
My 2016 Chevy Colorado had same problem, 75K mile transmission service with flush, fill and filter fixed problem. Truch does not have a dipstick to check or add fluid.
Ivan, I use to deal with Chrysler A604 transaxle transmissions a lot. I used the OTC monitor 4000 scan tool. You could check the CVI (clutch volume index). It would give you a good indication of the clutch wear. My question to you is this readout on the newer cars today possible with the Think tool scanner? Sure would be helpful in a situation like this.
You can get CVI and other values which allow you to approximate CVI. However, CVI is not available on some years of FCA products, IRC 2011-14 for some unknown reason. It's the Mercedes trans and you can get CVI on a Mercedes, but not on the FCA variant.....
I learned from ammco that they use trans x posi rear additive and i have used it several times with success. My friend just used it in a 4l80e that was shuddering when hot. After 2 tubes the suddler is 100% gone. I think this is the same as lube guard and many others but the posi additive is much cheaper.
My 2011 is doing that, but the codes that had come up, was something to do with the throttle position sensor & then something miss firing on one of the banks? I cant remember, because the person cleared & reset it & it hasn't come up again.
Back in my day we had transmission filters you could replace, we just chose not to.
We call that a "California option".
I'm back because I just recently started feeling the shudder in my traverse (2016 FWD 148,000 miles). I was regularly changing the fluid at about 40k miles using FRAM Dexron VI. I'm gonna switch to Mobil 1 Synthetic LV ATF Dexron HP and add the shudder fixx to top it off. I hate to pay for 9.5 quarts of Mobil 1 but its better than buying a new torque converter or transmission. If you happen to see this and see that anything I just said I maybe shouldn't do, yell at me LOL.
I know someone who had one of these. The dealer said gear hunting was normal at 35-40 MPH and then the transmission blew a few months later.
Oops 🤣
Change fluid twice and then drive test again. Still got problems transmission repair time check solenoid for transmission use high grade synthetic fluid. Good luck.
You can put a red tube of lubeguard shudder fix. It does work wonders. Lol. But at least customer got rid of it lol. Nice video Ivan!
You should have done a complete fluid exchange by removing the cooler return line and run into a bucket. Fill as it draining, until the fluid is clean. This is no different that using a machine. That's your best process to get the trans clean. This tcc is never fully locked, its always modulating and has some slip. Remember , when the converter is at a high duty cycle is when the engine is loaded the most. Many engine problems are blamed on the tcc application. That "fish bite" inconsistencies make me wonder.
Yes the constant partial slip is what wore out the converter prematurely and turned the fluid black haha
No, this is not to discredit your work. I watch every episode you do. I think your BRILLIANT, hence people bringing car to you across country. I've always been weary on tcc shudder and "engine hiccups" that's all. Keep up the great work Ivan, we love you.
I own a traverse, what I do is I intentionally take my foot off the gas to switch gears. Not a mechanic, but when you are going uphill and the car does want to change gears, the downshift and up shifting cause the torque converter to cry, so I don’t make the car go to 3k+ in RPMS.
Otherwise be gentle on the throttle, I haven’t experienced this issue yet, 250k kms
would a TCM reset help with a new trans fluid flush? I know my Mazda 3 took a reset, shifted terrible for 10
'shift cycles" and then magically mellowed out with no more hiccups.
I had the EXACT same symptoms on a 17 Acadia. After reading about all the issues with this transmission, i dumped it for an Odyssey.
To make a judgment call on the longevity of this almost 100,000 mile transmission we really need to understand if it was serviced properly. Ivan you need to ask many more questions on the history of the vehicle before taking on work. If the first fluid change was due to lock-up clutch chatter 5000 miles ago and this was the transmissions first service and the problem still persists, the transmission needs to be rebuilt. No need to diagnose it. Driving 5000 miles while it is chattering is a little crazy and will chew up what is left of this worn out clutch.
I was surprised to hear on this particular transmission that you can not change the filter without dropping the transmission. This is just crazy. In working with transmission valve bodies the filter is key to minimizing debris, as an example, the tolerances on the spool valves are incredibly tight.
Just to clarify on why technicians use a MityVac to swap transmission fluid when a filter change is not need. It is because some transmissions do not have a drain plug and to change the fluid without a MityVac you would have to drop the pan which is very messy (even if you first use a MityVac to get most of the fluid out) and you may require a new pan gasket (even though the OEM is supposedly multi-use) and you have to clean the pan before reinstalling the gasket (best to clean the magnet too), and usually in the salt belt you will need to clean up the transmission pan rails, and then you have to make sure you do not pinch a solenoid harness when reinstalling the pad. The MityVac also gives a very accurate measurement of the fluid removed, although you don't really need to know the volume to replace it (although it is important to determine if you have emptied the pan), you can just mark the tank with a piece of tape and refill at the same level.
Yep, they are lasting less and less! Good job, Ivan and very wise decision by customer. Another point in favor of stick shift 🙂
Put a couple bottles of Lubegard in it.
Had a problem with my trans shutter from stop ,maf sensor replaced then was fine
Lube guard is the best takes care of 90% of issues
@@wendwllhickey6426 probably wasn’t a transmission shutter then
Also known as Dr. Shudder Fix per Scanner Danner 😂
I put one of those little read tubes with the pinched off ends in my 1993 crown vic that had never seen any service before I got it and shuddered terribly and it never shuddered again after draining the pitch black fluid. I put it in all my 4R70 transmissions after changing the filter and fluid.
Customer made a wise decision. My 2020 Civic with a CVT, Honda says every 25,000. It's like a 4 qt spill and fill.
It needs a new torque converter. The lock up clutch feature is likely burned up, not all that uncommon. Transmissions shops will use a BNI replacement, a better quality torque converter.
BTW, for only 5,000 miles ago, that fluid draining out of the trans is way too black. Its also a good practice to never flush out trans fluids, especially on high mileage vehicles that never had a fluid change. Its best to simply drain, change filter and refill and the interval is likely best at every 30,000 miles depending on mostly highway miles or city stop and go miles. Fluid is cheap, transmission rebuilds are expensive.
One upon a time a person could unplug a connector and run a car without the TCC lockup. My daughter had a chev cavalier with a sticky lockup valve in the trans, I pulled the connector and she drove it 2 more years without the TCC lockup enabled. Probably not great for gas mileage.
@@lo1234-w9rMy daily driver is an 89 GMC V1500 Suburban...it had the 700R4 overdrive. In town, I have it in drive, only on the highways without traffic do I use overdrive mainly because OD is useless below 40 MPH and it will not allow the engine to slow down the vehicle at all, it coasts. Makes no sense in city or heavy traffic to use OD. In either selection, the torque converter engages lock up. You can tap the brake lights to disengage it and a few other means.
Haven’t watched the video yet. Just had this issue on my in laws nearly new 18 Traverse. Chevy has a TSB. First change fluid with the additive and then change torque converter. Torque converter fixed the problem. They only had 10,000 miles. Dealer said they shudder off the lot. 🤷♂️🤪
WOW lol
I have a 2017 Traverse that is doing the same thing. You are using the Thinktool PROS, my question is can I do the same diagnostics with the PRO. It is about half the price and I want to confirm the issue with my car before deciding what to do with it.
I Just one a day had some input you might be able to purge that torque converter fresh fluid Intero the filler that and bleed on some out of the transmission fluid through cooler line well it's running really like your program keep up the good
Lubegard Shudder Fixx, works well if it's just a light shudder or slightly slipping.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the transmission, I think its the torque converter. I'm not very strong at diagnosing transmissions as that was the last thing in my career i focused on because they don't pay well under warranty. I can rebuild them all day with no problems. I would have recommended a transmisison flush which would have hooked into the lines and did a 1-1 exchange, but draining and filling a couple of times will get most of the fluid out and should fix the concern, if it doesn't then the torque converter should be the fix. GM states the fluid is dark like that from the additives put in during assembly such as a vehicle with low miles the fluid will be that dark and is not a concern. Obviously if it smells burnt or full of debris thats a different story. The 8speed mainly have torque converter and valve body problems, some have internal problems, the 9 speeds i've seen burnt clutches, broken hard parts. pretty much every 9 speed gets both valve bodies. I haven't been inside a 10speed yet other than the front cover for a bad pump idler gear. Most customer pay transmission we sell a reman as it comes with a better warranty 3years 100k vs the 12months 12k warranty on the parts replaced.
The torque converter will eventually start shedding metal directly into the transmission and start disintegrating it on top of it constantly burning up the fluid. The whole entire assembly should be replaced. I've had them burn fluid and lockup really weird until I start loosing gears and having to be stranded on the side of the road. I hate automatics for that reason. It seems previous owners don't maintain them and tow heavy objects to their max capacity until it starts burning up the torque converter. Same goes with people towing in over drive. It constantly locks and unlocks the torque converter causing more friction to build up and more heat which burns the fluid up faster.
I'm having weird issues with the transmission in my new car. 2017 cruze that has the 6t40 trans. It has problems shifting, shuddering like the engine is heaving misfiring on acceleration. Sometimes it slips and slams 3rd gear on a soft shift. The TCM notices too much slip between shift and applies high pressure to slam the clutch. This issue has been known to break the transmission case by slamming the assembly against the lock ring and it breaks pieces out of the case. Not DTC's stored, but I don't expect the engine light to come on until it completely breaks and leaves me on the side of the road. It is also one of those cars that the dealer did a 107 point inspection on and put "no dipstick" on check and fill transmission fluid and told me the full service was done on it, which I doubt. This trans is easy to do a fluid change by the drain plug and there is a fill plug by the axle shaft. Kinda like filling up a diff. Luckily it still drives ok and gets great gas mileage but hopefully it breaks before the warranty is out.
Dr Shudder Fix to the rescue!
Approved by ScannerDanner
Nice video. I would drain fluid one more time and flush cooler and lines. There’s a product called Dr Shudder fix and it seems to help. I did a Transmission on my old Crown Vic and it helped. Paul has a video where he used it on one of his brother’s customer car and it seemed to work too.
We use to put differential limited slip additive in the Dodge and Chrysler trans for torque converter shudder
I own a 09 tahoe with the 6l80 255k miles. Started having issue on the highway in 6th gear with he converter locking and unlocking rapidly like this traverase. A few months later the converter let go on a road trip and wiped the fluid pump and clutches. (I knew better but kept driving it.) I would say do the converter now on this one based on the rapid locking and unlocking. I would say this is more than a shudder. Had a customer with a cadillac cts 8 speed with a bad shudder. Perfoemed fluid service with new fluid and problem went away completely. The new fluid was the mobil 1 hp fluid in the service bulletin. Ford 6r80 is bad for this too
While you were showing your scanner with the graphs, does it tell you what the values should be. ? So you can compare.
On some colorados and 2nd gen traverses people have used dexron HP which they said helped with the shudder. There is no statement saying dexron 6 and dexron are compatible tho. Plus some Lube Gard
Best shop signage around
I had a similar problem with my 2013 traverse front drive. Turned out to be sparkplug, not setting any misfire codes...changed all 6, never happened again.
With the fluid looking that bad, why wouldn’t you do an actual flush? As in the one where you remove a cooler line and run it at an idle pumping it out until it stops, then refil, and do again until the fluid comes out clean?
Because that would be a waste of fluid 😅