Ford Dealer STUMPED...REFUSES WARRANTY!! (Part 1 - Intermittent Charging System MALFUNCTION)
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- Owner of this 2021 Lincoln Corsair EcoBoost reached out to PHAD because the local Lincoln Dealer has been unable to repair a VERY intermittent Charging System Problem that has been plaguing this car since DAY 1. The car only has 25k miles!
The issue has occurred a total of 12 TIMES over 3 YEARS...WOW...how am I supposed to reproduce the customer complaint?? MISSION IMPOSSIBLE!
"U012D - Lost Communication with Alternator" is stored in memory.
It has been to the dealer 4 times over the last 3 years, and is STILL BROKEN after several parts cannon attempts... They replaced the Active Grille Shutter...TWICE!
Owner had no choice and started a BUY BACK request, but got DENIED by the dealer, stating that the car was over 3 years old...Crazy!!
Owner's wife loves her Lincoln...can we save the day and diagnose a weird issue that happens ONCE EVERY FEW MONTHS??
I don't have high hopes, but let's follow Standard Operating Procedure:
-Research the Charging System
-Make a GAMEPLAN: test the LIN BUS wiring integrity from the PCM to the Alternator
Will the Diagnostic Plan yield any interesting results?
PLACE YOUR BETS NOW!
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Enjoy!
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!
Ivan - Авто та транспорт
Lincoln is bluffing the customer out of a buyback. The "warranty clock" on most state lemon protections stops ticking on *first* incident of a problem. Saying it's "outside the three year period" is Lincoln hogwash, and worst of all is they *know* it. Infuriating. Heck of a case study, Ivan. With the dealer/mfr would be held responsible for every cent of this repair.
It's NOT hard to believe they actually try this rubbish on with Mr and Mrs general public.
That’s what I was thinking.
Sounds like they're trying to get out of it by saying the Bumper to Bumper warranty is up.
@SteveLehto
I would push the lemon law. After 3 years and X miles, I would like a full refund or a new car replacement regardless of Ivan's findings.
got me again with the cliff hanger
I'm all in and then the screen goes black... Part Two
Nooooooo! Just started watching with my coffee and muffin. Guess I get to enjoy some anticipation!
@@braddofnerit’s a two muffin problem, enjoy them both 😆
Dude I was just getting excited and then the cut!! What is this Rob Dahm’s channel!!
Your videos have convinced me that today's cars are too complicated for most mechanics. Definitely a train wreck for the industry and the consumer. 😮
Obviously too complicated for the companies that build them as well based on the repair flowchart. Too many players on the team and none of them are working together.
Gotta do everything they can to get every last little bit of mpg
It’s a LIN bus circuit, single wire. Ivan did a 101 pin to pin resistance check and found an issue. Not complicated at all. The diagnostics is making this more confusing than it needs to be.
Ivan why are you torturing me? I was just getting ready for that AHA moment and you spring the part 2 notice on the screen. The entire dealership model is deeply flawed!
Fortunately there are🎉 genuine diagnosticians like you and Eric O! He is the reason I found your channel, a true win win!
I would be willing to bet he's going to post part 2 tonight before we go to bed. I kept looking at the video length and we were running out of time. Sometimes when he does this we still have half the video to go.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES
We are watching someone who understands electrical systems and how they work vs the dealership techs who blindly follow a flow chart without understanding why.
Yeah that flow chart doesn't pinpoint anything.
@@volvo09 It should also say to unplug the alternator and see if you get a grille shutter code, if they want to use the flow chart method. That would confirm or eliminate the grille shutter.
They word the flow chart so a 5 year old can understand it. This is so they can put a tech fresh out of school on it and they can learn on the job.
How much do you think that tech got paid to flat rate that job? I would say less than an hour to do it all (minus grill shutter replacement). That includes all documentation, bringing the car back and re parking it.
That is the main problem with the industry. No money, no honey.
@@mph5896 Exactly right!!! This is the result of flat rate pay in the toxic dealer environment. Nobody here gives a rat's azz if cars are fixed, only how many hours the tech can flag. We get intermittent problems like this one, and pray that it gets bought back. Why should I loose pay over a problem that I did not create?
Sounds like the dealer kept fobbing off the customer in the hope the fault and the customer would go away until the warranty period was over.
How can the warranty period expire if the customer has contacted the dealer, the dealer has acknowledged the problem and has made attempts at troubleshooting the customers complaint but not been able to resolve the issue?! US and your friggin strange laws!
It says something when a customer has to contact Ivan to fix something the dealer can't or won't. Also, I'd be worried that even if Ivan fixes it which is likely, the warranty will become invalid.
Can’t wait for Part 2 to drop!!!!!!
I understand why the Ford dealership is stumped …. problem requires troubleshooting !
Why in God's green earth should an active grill shutter have anything to do with the charging system? That alone makes me wonder about the sanity of engineers.
@@adotintheshark4848 It doesn't as shown and explained in Part 1
@@milantrcka121 I know but that shutter shouldn't be anywhere near a charging system.
@@adotintheshark4848 Multiplexed communications are common. Factory-defective connector pins (P2) not so much. Ford tech knowledge and customer treatment by Ford - reprehensible.
You nailed it Ivan. They design cars to fail. That keeps their company in business.
'Planned obsolescence'. One of many anti-consumer tactics used by nearly all large companies today so they can sustain income streams without innovation.
Ivan… it’s Sunday and we all have time for part 2😊
Love this channel .. greetings from Romania 👌🙋♂️👨🔧🦾🍻
I had a 1990 New Yorker that every once in a while it would buck at bit then quit. It would not restart immediately. Wait 10 minutes or so it restated and may not do this again for a month, or again a day later. It was intermittent and very unpredictable.
One day I borrowed my dads dodge. Drove it a few miles and the low oil pressure light came on. I knew the sensor was bad, so I stopped and removed the sensor connector and went on my way. Went about 500 feet, it started bucking then engine quit. Pulled over and re attached the oil sensor, car ran fine. And the AHA moment hit me!
Got back and checked the service manual for his car. The oil sensor had 3 wires; the manual stated that if the system detected a low oil condition it would shut down the engine to protect it from damage.
I checked the service manual for my New Yorker, it only had 2 wires going to the oil sensor and the service manual did not say the engine would shut down if it detected a low oil issue. Regardless, I go out my DMM and started checking both wires. The continuity of the blue wire when stressed would fluctuate like crazy. Further investigation found the wire was actually broken inside the insulation; it was not visible and looked perfectly fine.
Fixed the broken wire and the problem never came back. What was happening was the wire would contact just fine, until it heated up, and vibration while driving would then break the circuit and it bucked and quit, once things cooled down, the cycle would repeat.
There’s the problem. “Wife loves the car “. Never fall in love with a car. Know when to dump it!
Just like a bad women!
Goes for women too.
Love how big companies can just take your money and lie to you with no consequences
The dealer flow chart fails because it does NOT take into account that an intermittent fault might exist.
I'm sure that this is going to be another case where careful analysis of the problem, clear considered thought process and the most basic of tests will provide a 100% cure for this customers problem.
Can't wait for part 2!!
Cheers.
Ben
Ford/ Lincoln 4 year tech here, I deal with their electronics, software, wiring on a daily basis that flow chart is one of the worst I’ve ever seen. I have the ability to report a concern in that ppt so hopefully we can avoid this mess in the future. I only use the ppt to go as a guide you always always always have to do more testing than the ppt shows if you want an accurate diagnosis. I’ve had software burn me more than id like to admit so if a system has an update I always update it. At this point I’m suspecting a bad splice as Ive seen a million and one bad, but man if I was the tech on this car I would have taken care of the customer whatever needed to be done. If I was suspecting a bad alternator after proper basic circuit testing it would have gotten that since it’s such an intermittent concern. Eager to see what you found. Haven’t had them cars in with this concern yet. I actually got a twin of that car 8k miles but hybrid in right now with moisture in the A/C system from the factory and the all too common blue screen for the 360 camera that Ford has no permanent fix for after 4 recalls but go figure this car is not in the recalled cars for this problem🙃
The ol' Monopoly flow chart road block: do not pass go and do not fix the car. :) Go straight to parts cannon jail. :)
That's too funny. Your ability to show why the dealer got stuck is hilarious
Electrical diagnostics requires a certain mindset. Someone brought me a 2004 f150, wont start, smoked wire, fuel pump relay bypass. They fail and are integrated into the fuse box. It took me about 1/2 hour to figure out, the fuse box pump relay failed (very common problem). The customer "friend" tried to bypass the relay, smoked the wire, and in the process burned up the starter (his diagnosis cranking till it burned up),fuel pump, computer and some wiring. AND already had a bad fuse box.It will cost more to fix it than it will to replace it.
Why the dealer got stuck is hilarious and sad at the same time.
@@rodx5571 You can bypass it.. Just use an external relay. Done! .. But yeah- people have to understand load ratings and wire size, etc. You definitely can't run the pump through the computer signal circuit.. lol. A cheap relay would have been the fix.. I've seen a guy take apart the chevy fuse boxes and replace the little internal relays. It's actually quite easy. I hate to see them going with internal relays. smh.. Such a shame
So if they were promised by the dealer they would honour the buy back if it did it again, that's considered a contract, so they should have honoured it. Unless it was just spoken only, it's their word against yours. Typical main dealer trick, they knew they'd get away with it
Just trade the turd in, and be done with it.
That may depend on the state the car is located. Here; three times for the same failure then the car is declared a lemon and is replaced.
I understand the need for the factory flow charts. The company doesn't want the dealerships to perform any other troubleshooting other than the flow charts. In doing this, they can limit the amount of unnecessary repairs and part replacement thereby reducing cost. The flow charts do work MOST of the time but they do not let nor does the company allow, any free thought during troubleshooting. The frustration comes in as the fault flow charts can never be 100% complete. It could never be, there are simply too many variables. Troubleshooting like this is called swaptronics and is all the"master technicians" are allowed to do and the flow charts tell them what to swap. Ivan is completely correct. New cars are a nightmare of wires and multiple computers. You need a degree in electrical engineering to diagnose them. Most of these You Tube channels are free thinking diagnosticians that have a good working knowledge of basic electronics which is what makes them successful. It absolutely sucks but the blame falls back to the auto manufactures and they're quest for the bottom dollar. Can you imagine the repair time at a dealer if the tech's were troubleshooting cars the complete and correct way??? How many times has Ivan found wiring problems???
You're right that it's the manufacturer causing 99% of this situation. They want "streamlined" diagnosis procedures that save them short-term money. Any technician who goes off the reservation and attempts a creative diagnosis can be burned if he makes a mistake. The first thing you'll be asked by the warranty administrator is: "Did you follow the flowchart?" Doesn't matter if the flowchart is incorrect or incomplete.
It's a lot like the military: If you want to survive the system you have to follow the right procedure even if it repeatedly yields the wrong results.
As we have said many times that there are very few real mechanics at dealerships anymore. The few that are left are probably not compensated for their knowledge and abilities. Thanks Ivan!!!
No. As a matter of fact, they are penalized for wanting to be thorough in their diagnosis. Get em in, get em out is the game plan of management. They don't care if it comes back. They'll charge again if it does.
This is why i went back to an older car.
Even 20 years old cars are full of electronics...
2002 Tacoma. Original alternator, starter and ac compressor. Zero issues. 2.4L simple engine. Modern manufacturers should look back and take a lesson
@@JameyPetit Toyota is also a "modern manufacturer". Do you think they still build cars using the 2002 technology?
I absolutely get entrapped in these videos from Ivan, It's like reading a good mystery novel and having to leave a suspense filled page when someone comes to the door. I know I'm close to the conclusion but I need to wait . lol
I was asked two weeks ago by a local Ford dealer if I could make an exhaust for a 7-year-old Fiesta. As Ford can not supply one for it, a guy working on his own making exhausts in stainless steel for the win here in the UK. It looks the same anywhere in the world for parts.
UK cottage industry for the Win
👍
I once had a custom made stainless exhaust for a range rover made and fitted for less than the cost of a genuine mild steel part.
I would never go to a stealership for an exhaust plenty of muffler/exhaust shops in my area.
I want to think that the techs that work there, do truly want to fix the root problem, but in most cases, the dealership policy prohibits this.
the techs either play by the stealership's rules or hit the road and get repleaced by someone who will. also, seems like the flow charts are cleverly designed in milking the customer.
Good thing the dealership didn't actually check anything or bother to think they might have accidentally found the issue
This is gonna be good! Happy Father’s Day to all the Dads. 👍👍🇺🇸
I've had case like this before. It was open on the LIN wire. Constantly open but would only set DTC under a specific condition.
When I started and left on idle, after 1min the "Charging system malfunction" message came on. Flick throttle RPM to 1500+ message go away and says away, alternator default charging 14.4V. DTC general communication stored.
When started and start driving within the minute, the charging message never comes on, alternator goes to default and no DTC set.
Repaired broken wire it fixed it. Previous to that a garage replacement alternator no difference as you can imagine
Probably won't apply in this case, but we get this on the 1.6 TI-VCT Sigma engines with or without grille shutters.
The cause?
Ignition interference to the LIN.
Those engines have a coil pack and leads, one of the leads gets an open and you get a -100V spike on the LIN which stops Comms with the alternator.
They won't charge unless the LIN is unplugged!
But no misfire under load as there's so much surplus energy available!
Alternators...
Many times the regulator/brush pack is available from the dealer (but not Ford)
However there are suppliers I use that stock the original (Bosch, Valeo, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Visteon etc) components so that's what I change rather than the whole alternator.
Example Ford Transit:
OE alternator £700
Aftermarket alternator: £300
OE Reg/brush pack: £30
Damn the cliffhanger.
Who hangs from cliffs anyway ?
Suspense causes stress !
Suspended is what UA-cam does to me regularly
Ivan, having worked for mainline dealers in the past, the problems with their diagnostics (as exemplified in this video and in your previous Audi saga) boils down to the way dealership technicians are trained and required to perform those diagnostics. The models and procedures for diagnostics at the dealership level are built on the warranty model, with the manufacturer paying for the diagnostics and repairs. When the manufacturer pays the bill, it is much, much cheaper for them to wing parts at problems "and check again," then it is to pay for the labour required for a real diagnostic, not to mention the training time that doing real diagnostics would require. The issue is that they don't apply a different diagnostic process when the customer is paying the bill...it's still "If you have Symptom X, replace Part Y, and then check again." But if an individual is paying the bill, it gets very, very expensive in a very short amount of time. I worked at dealerships from day one of my apprenticeship, and it wasn't until you and Eric O started your UA-cam channels that I learned the right way to do diagnostics.
Dealers dont care about the customer, period.
For decades
They just aren't that smart until they've seen these problems a lot. The car is still new. Also, most of them work flat rate-- so they have to race the clock and just get it out of there; You're gonna have some headaches with intermittent issues anyway.. There's no way around it.
Shocked it didn't list Dealer Bonus: $1500 got customer to wait past deadline.
@@calholliTotally. Everyone thinks dealer tecis are dumb because they don't solve these problems but they're getting like .2 to for diag on stuff like this. That's not even enough time to pull the car in and do the courtesy inspection they're required to do, let alone solve an intermittent warning light issue that happens twice a year.
The tech shouldn't be required to do it for free, get it out and get some cp work in
Yes they do. They care about the customer's $$$.
The issue with obsolete parts is more complicated than just the car makers. The root cause is that chip makers obsolete discreet components that make up the modules. Companies have to try to guess how many items to buy for a 5 to 7 year cycle for parts inventory. If they don't buy enough of the item or it is troublesome, they will run out early.....
Ivan pin pointed the exact place of the issue in seconds, nice!
Ivan the master of the cliff hanger!
What I see is that the US customer protection laws are a bit rubbish or people don't know how they work. I'd think that if the car had the problem when in warranty and they haven't been able to fix it, they still need to apply the laws that would have been applied when the first problem occurred, right? If not, they trick you into delaying everything until the warranty expires and now they don't have any responsibilities. That's not right.
I agree, if an agreement was made in that 3 year period to exchange the vehicle if the issue reoocurs, they should abide by it even if problems occur after.
Here in the USA it’s all about money and greed!
@@clintprice2123 Greed the worst word in any language !!!!
At first guess, it sounds like a bus fault of some sort? Something on the bus not going to sleep and causing battery drain at the same time?
Edit - Or after seeing the LIN bus - just a faulty alternator.
I had a brand new Ford with a faulty alternator ~30 years ago; the old system where an electric choke heater ran off a tap on the alternator windings. The choke went off far to fast & the battery was not charging properly.
The local dealer kept insisting the alternator was good and there was no connection with the choke problem!
Until the alternator failed completely & they had no choice but to replace it. The choke problem vanished the same day.
The same place damaged the handbrake cables on one while doing the brake pads. When I complained the service guy drew me a diagram of the brakes to "prove" there was no connection. He drew a drum brake - for a car with all round discs.
They are spanner jockeys, not Engineers.
Ivan tested resistance in wires which were disconnected at both ends. How could it be the alternator - it was not plugged in as part of the test?
@@bobhudson6659 I posted my comment while watching at the point the wiring diagram was first shown, before any testing was done.
@@RJTC So does that mean you will watch all the way through next time before commenting?
Hi Ivan, LIN is similar as CAN bus. The major difference between CAN and LIN is that CAN is a broadcast type of protocol, where each node can access the bus at any point in time. LIN is based on a master-slave type of communication; Where 1 Master node can communicate up to 15 slaves nodes.
Give us part 2 - NOW!!!
Can’t wait for the conclusion…
Green Crusties?
You know it is... It has to be. You're not getting 22 ohms through a direct wire any other way.
Bad weather pack?
Fascinating explanation and procedures. I can't believe the dealer didn't fire the alternator parts cannon! It shows that they truly don't care to know or take care of a customer. Kudos to you again Ivan for your integrity and knowledge!! Hats off to you sir!!!
I have this in my signature on some of the forums I participate in.
“The reason I hate the technician term used at dealerships: To me, a technician uses diagnostics (either computer or paper-based) to search for a problem part and change it. A mechanic understands the mechanics and design of the parts and corrects the cause, if possible. Unfortunately, there are many dealership technicians and fewer mechanics than should be.”
The system also keeps the herd in line with the warranty payment. You get paid following the procedure. Some FSEs will give an allowance for the dealership person being a mechanic (in my terms), but that's even a fight for them with the mother ship.
My preference for the 'mechanic' term comes from my past associations. I knew a WW2 B-17 mechanic, and those guys had to restore planes that went through hell, repairing damage to get the aircraft to fly again and be ready for the next hell it went through, trying to bring the crew back home. I also got to meet two of my childhood heroes, both very well-known in the automotive racing arena, and they both referred to themselves as mechanics. Both never went to college, both were farm boys like myself, and both were better than most of the engineers that I worked with or engineers who worked for me in the automotive field.
That's still a lemon buyback. Ford/Lincoln is just trying to avoid adding to the design and warrant the black hole they are in financially.
It's a good thing B-17 were not full of modules the way modern cars are or most of them would never have got off the ground and have certainly never made it to made it to Germany, and we would all probably be speaking a different language now.
Thank you sir. That's what I have been say.
Quit calling mechanics Technician.
A Technician and a mechanic are entirely different job titles or field work.
Quit blaming Dealerships.
Maybe call them useless tools of a predatory business model
@@bruceirvine3962 maybe call them Auto mechanics.
I went through this on a new 07 Expedition. Had transmission problems the first day I bought it. The dealer worked on it and said it was ok. Well, it was for about 4 months and the problem started again. Again, the dealer said they fixed the problem and did for about four months. This went on and on. Finally on extended warranty the problem was solved. It was a bad valve body. Never had any problem after that. I should have demanded a new Expedition but listened to the dealer service department instead.
We watch that on South Main channel. One module takes the whole system down. Really eye opening.
Oh I'm having flashbacks watching this from my experience with a dealership, an $800 "chipped" alternator and the generic aftermarket $200 alternator with no chip!
Luv these David vs Goliath challenges you have the Gonads to take on!!! Rooting for you all the way. BTW what a Fast one that Lincoln pulled on this guy. Talking him into “one last time “ so the buyback plan expires 🤬🤬🤬🤯. Seems that with all the documentation they have on this problem it would be a slam dunk case! Rooting for you Ivan!
Ford tech here. Some of the workshop manual pinpoint tests are very misleading and cause situations like this all the time. Have to use common sense most of the time.
Now "they" not telling us... Don't you Ford fixit-folks ever bring this garbage up? This from a long-time Ford owner (260kmi Pinto and 250 kmi Explorer, both deceased, and currently 100 kmi F150 and 28 kmi Flex, just fine daily drivers. Scares me to get another one if ever.
This problem was obviously built into the vehicle since day one , so it must be a defective component or assembly ,somewhere. Even something as simple as a wire to pin crimp that only 27:24 acts up when a certain tire hits a certain size hole in the road. , you may never know. I'm confident that you'll find it Ivan. After all if you can't find it who will.???
i work at a ford dealer and boy let me tell you fords quality is literally for example trash..rear shocks leaking on broncos around 1-10k miles or even less and alot of other problems but the issue is
the techs making time...techs either dont do the work or give up because the time to do the diagnoses or fix things is way low like lets say it takes 0.5 or 0.7 to find an intermittent problem thats going to fuck up the techs day because if there is no tsb or if hes inexpierenced or its a bigger problem then it is they are going to lose money based on fords time which is why alot of techs are leaving this joke of an industry
Most people feel they can trust the dealership.. That's how it should be, but from my experience, that is far from the truth. Seems all they do is read and follow the flow chart without any knowledge of what they are working on. A lot of the time it's common sense, and unfortunately ends up turning it over to Mechanics like Ivan. It's unacceptable and they need to take responsibility.
Agreed, many of them are little more than parts fitters with almost no real diagnostic skills above following the flow chart.
Excellent thought process, Ivan! Being an intermittent problem, I'd bet the dealer kept pushing it with minimum expenses, until the warranty died (seen dealers do that before). Also, every time they disconnected or replaced the grill shutter, they disturbed the wiring, probably giving the problem a temporary fix. 22 Ohm is very high for a short length of wire - there must be a problem in the connectors or a damaged insulation somewhere, but the LIN bus will probably push the signals through that resistance easily (only when it gets worse it will fail communicating).
Part 2 should lead to a pleasant finale 🙂
You’re best Ivan and you know that😅😅😅😅
Ivan you are killing us with these cliffhangers.😂
This sounds like the definition of "STUPID". The dealership keeps trying the same repair of the same fault with the same fix hoping for a different result.
The diag trees are designed by engineers to be used by parts swappers. They may not find the problems 100% of the time but they are big enough they can bank on the odds. Thank goodness for the rest of us there are real diagnosticians like Ivan to pick up the slack.
Interesting case study and left us with a cliffhanger when it got really interesting. 🤣🤣
ohm meter test, if it shows bad it is bad, if it shows good it means nothing. Great video.
Damn, I didn't want this one to end. Thanks Ivan!
Great job Ivan. Looking forward to part II.
I’m surprised they didn’t replace the alternator. Seems sus. Also, awesome diag so far and good cliff hanger!
You are very methodical to find the resistance on these wites. Most people would not have even looked for it. "ATTABOW!!" John
Great diagnoses. very methodical. perfect approach
Thank you for answering a question that has been kicking around in my head for 20 years. @25:17 , just disconnect the gnd bat cable so the PCM has no ground. BTW a woman went to the dealership to have a seat belt buckle installed. After she agreed to have the car looked over they sent her away with a $10k repair estimate. Later she arrived at my friend's place, he put 3.5 quarts of motor oil into her Honda. He couldn't understand how they could have sent her away 3.5 quarts low. I couldn't understand why she never checked her oil. Wah wah.
Lol, everybody wants part two, we love your channel.
If only dealerships hired and trained the best drivability techs they could find. Then had them troubleshoot these cars with a strategy to help with their success while being well paid to do so.
Dealer book time is probably something like:
Diag .8
Software update .3
Document repairs or repair is not reimbursed.
Glad a real drivability tech not relying on low flat rate pay is on it Ivan!
Without reading the comments, I'll bet this is the first time we agree the car should go to al lawyer not PHAD. still a fascinating study. Thanks Ivan
I am in awe of your work please keep it up, absolutely fascinating
Nice analysis professor!
Great job there Ivan good job a good diagnostician
I believe now that I have made finding a bad connection once by applying current on a suspect circuit.
Great vid
I am sure the part two vid will even better ❤
Grill shutter? What the heck. What is wrong with a normal grill? Too cheap? Lasts too long? Idiocracy.
Grill shutter sits behind the grill and blocks off part of the radiator to cause the engine to get to operating temp quicker.
It is an ECO feature, better aerodynamics with blocked off grille, plus helps with warm up time.
You can thank your govt for stringent emissions/fuel consumption regulations imposed on manuf: this in turn forces them into all sorts of compromises/contraptions...just as this grill shutter. The shutter helps the aerodynamics of the car, hence improved mpg. It could also help with lowering emissions, as it speeds up/controls the warming up of the engine and a faster catalytic light up.
@@breezy1849 All about getting the Engine into "Closed Loop" ASAP.
Noooooo! You stopped ep1 just as it was getting good. Good video....
I can't wait to see part 2. Honestly You and Eric O have made me a better diagnostic tech than any of my GM trainging has. I have seen so many errors in service procedures or they tell you to replace this part and if that doesn't fix it replace this part. But then they never have you check xyz. Just like this case. I've provided feed back and sometimes they tell me there is nothing wrong with the procedure and i'm not following diagnostics correctly. I have seen wires on new cars corroded. the copper being black... I've seen a new equinox with intermittent all wheel drive issue and it ended up being a bad wire, like several feet of wire needed to be cut out before we got clean copper. It would light a head lamp bulb but it did it rather slowly. Technical assistance sometimes is like talking to the wall. Once in a while you get someone who is experienced and can actually help. most of the time they are reading from a script. To think cars today are considered throw away with how much they cost. I think they are trying to push people to lease vs buy now days. I also blame the flat rate system. Often times we don't get paid diag under warranty to diagnose something or we get 0.3 if we are lucky we can get 1.0 on somethings but its always throwing the dice because we get paid for what ever labor op says. Techs go to work trying to beat flat rate on a daily basis so they don't take the time to diagnose vehicles. OR some how manage to pick and choose what they want to do, and the problem cars sit there until the customer gets mad and picks them up. I see that a lot. I know you would find the issue. But How long did it take you to do research, come up with a plan to do your tests? I Bet it was more than 0.3 maybe more than 1.0? This is one problem with the industry. Diagnosing vehicles takes time, Yes there are a lot of common failures but experience is something learned over time not bought.
Will be waiting for part 2.
Wow, holy crap. That is too new of a car, with those intermittent problems!! That's why you're the electrical genius!! You understand ohms, resistance, flows, etc. Hell, LMC should take advice from you lol. Hahaha. Nice find. On to part 2!
HI Ivan, I feel that you are on the right track with your diagnosis. the problem goes away when you play with the shudder control cable indicating a bad connection in the cable.
It will be truly a miracle to find this fault, also Ford should still be responsible for this car!
Rich
The last dealer report said they worked on the shudders (instead of shutters). No wonder it didnt fix the problem 😁
Great diag work Ivan.
If there is a fault in the wiring harness doesn’t mean that a wire is severed. The vibrations of the vehicle and operation could cause an intermediate fault between a connector or in-line resistor which could cause an error code.. remember just a little bit of added resistance, can set off an error code in the system
Nice video Ivan.
Farmer hear your thumb getting better god bless
I pray that this Case Study makes it all the way to the top of Ford Motor Company. First off, The work done is horrible. If I was the Owner of that vehicle I would be livid. Second, The Technician needs to be called on the carpet. His work product and inability to look at a wiring diagram and properly diagnose this issue is embarrassing. Ivan you are undoubtedly one of
the best at what you do. I have learned and adjusted my testing techniques because of your Videos. Looking forward to Part 2. Thank You.
Ford don't give a rat's azz, the dealer don't, and the tech don't. What are they going to do fire him? We can't get warm bodies to work here. If this was my turd, it would have been traded in, not worth getting upset about it. Just a stupid car.
Wow this one is a cliffhanger for sure. I cant wait for part 2. That black screen reminds me of the last episode of The Sopranos....WhAt HaPpeNeD. No WaY! lol
Congratulations for the great videos, if you use the oscilloscope will you see distortion in the signal?
Ugh, Ivan. You get us all excited and then kick the can down the road. 😂😅😂😅😂
Bruuuuuuhhhh, how can you do us like that !? Lol
You're just gonna leave us hangin ?! 😂
No seriously, stop playin, put up the end, FR..... lol
Welcome to the “cookbook” mechanic that goes strictly by the book.
Dealerships hire technicians who know how to change parts fast. Not diagnosticians, because the main part of the profit comes from the parts changed. You will never find a good diagnostician at a dealership. Two reasons for that. One: they don't have the knowledge, and if they start having, they will resign and start their own business. Two: there is not enough time to do thorough diagnoses, tests, and try repairs. That is why dealerships will always be stealerships.
Man , i was on the edge of my seat we were at C146 and testing ....to be continued dang , lol!!
Morning Ivan !! dealer knows nothing seems like they fobbed them off untill they wernt responsible for it thats bad almost as good as the wet belt b s it seems so called main dealers shoudnt be called that anymore
Very cool video. I don't understand why people overlook wire integrity.
I had a Ford Explorer with headlight issues. LIN bus initialization would fail after body shop installed new headlamp. After many hours of frustration I found water in an inline connector and a spice pack behind the grill.
I’m excited
Had a problem just like this on a mobile crane and it turned out to be a connector, the pin in the connector was not pushed in far enough to lock and would make contact for a while and then just stop and code out. Sometimes it would go months without issue then others it would code multiple times a day. Others condemned the alternator two times but when I dug into it found that pin out about half way back to the battery bank from the alternator, about 15', was feeling good about myself that day.
Flow charts generally help fix problems or help with installations until there's obscure trouble or problems.
When a flowchart is no longer helpful, it's time to start thinking outside the flowchart box. It's time to step back and look at more than what the flowchart looks at. Many forget it takes something more than components to create a system. It takes the wiring that joins it all together, something that should be included in a flowchart when everything else tests good.
Shorts, grounds, and crosses are easier to find than a high open, which is affected by heat and cold. Cold caused copper wires to constrict, while heat causes expansion. Add engine and road vibrations, and you have a real problem hunting down a broken wire under the wire insulation.
I like that the dealer "replaced the shudders" and "refilled freeon" 🤣🤣
Personally I prefer it when the dealer removes the shudders
We just received a letter from Ford on our 2021 Bronco Sport regarding an issue where the battery goes dead and car stalls. We have to take the vehicle back to the Dealer and have the BCM and PCM software updated. This is a Safety Recall. We have seen this problem with our Bronco Sport with the 2.0 EcoBoost engine.
Time to start buying a Classic cars or building kit-cars with Holley Fuel Injection kits... Way easier to keep on the road than this mess!
Absolutely not.. the fuel we use now makes it a nightmare. I'm tired of cleaning carbs. lol.. I'll be buying a fuel injected mower as soon as I can
Just buy a car that has a cigarette lighter and no can bus and you should be good to go 😛
Ill by American cars and trucks right up to 2006 ,then they become stupid with computers and modules on wheels and with there DOD and cylinder deactivation lifters and computerized charging systems problems. I still drive my 1991 GMC 1500 on propane , I just changed the valve stem seals and the alternator found the alt brgs were turning roughly at 270,000 on the old girl , she's a keeper .
@@oldbiker9739
Yeah I have a 97 GMC Sierra 5.7 ext cab 8ft bed best work truck ever made
Yes. I am in process of rebuilding my old 68 truck. Manual clutch. Very basic stuff.
OMG - From my past days of electrical troubleshooting in vehicles, I LOVE the way these "masters" are making videos on how to REALLY do troubleshooting. Everything from ground issues to splice issues, kudos to many of these "masters" who TRUELY troubleshoot these new vehicle issues.....The BAD thing is that even if a GOOD dealership mechanic attempts to TRY to do this type of troubleshooting, the service mgrs will basically tell them to NOT waste time and just do what the book says to do.....smh.....AND the fact that these new vehicles are MADE to be disposable - sheeeesh.....I am so afraid to purchase a NEW vehicle :(
Many of these new fords don’t come with a beauty cover. Only certain models have them. I would have expected the Lincoln to have it just to reduce noise from the HPFP.
Unreal that they replaced the grill shutters once, let alone twice. Incompetence is fully institutionalized at this point, in all industries.
Nice cliffhanger 👍
moral of this video- if the problem requires actual THINKING, don't take it to the dealership 'robots'. The flowchart says replace 'this', then replace 'this' is what they'll do. Even though they replaced 'this' twice and didn't solve the problem. ????? Ivan- you're special, you just are.
As soon as you said they replaced the active grill shutter 😮.
Ok Ivan... Now you're toying with us! ;) Nice work so far! You'll need a blue shirt with a red S on it if you can fix this pig with no parts required!
This is a symptom of an underlying issues in the automotive repair field. The dealers can't find any good techs and the warm bodies they do have can't do nothing more than follow the flow chart. Shops and customers have mistreated the techs for so long, all of the good one have left the field and the new guys don't say in the field.
It isn't always that they can't. It's that Ford won't pay the dealership or the tech for going outside the flow chart. The techs can't work for free so they have to push it out and move to the next car.
I use to be a ford tech. You can go outside the flow chart and still get "payed" if you know what your doing and how to write it up. But you have to know what your doing and the guys that operate at that level have left or leaving the field, because the pay isn't with the headache of it.
@@jasonwember9927 It's just not worth it when there are 50 more cars outside that will flag hours and make you money. It's sad...it's not that it's not fixable, it's just that it's not economically viable for the tech to spend (waste) the time on it. The one who suffers is the customer who has to find someone (and pay) that has the time and can figure out the issue.
truth!