Interested in Vocal lessons? Want to learn to scream like a demon and sing like an angel? Head over to kardavoxacademy.com and let us help you reach those vocal goals! Check out our Alumni playlist here on UA-cam to see for yourself! ua-cam.com/play/PLUWlpPRyCEaZiPCurr6_lxxI1Y3qjB1-4.html
Want another weird and unusual singer?【LIVE映像】unravel 日本武道館 2023.8.30【Ado】 ua-cam.com/video/khplMpm4ctc/v-deo.htmlsi=jwJLXmGctvf9ovoZ She is Japanese, the language may be unfamiliar. But she is currently #1 in Japan, and she is 21 years old.
I'm gonna anyways. We'll try to mix it up. From Deathmetal, Blackmetal, Metalcore (fuckin' classics back there) to Doom-metal, Deathcore... JK I listen to all music. It's the only genre, but I know what y'all are about. Some of these aren't together anymore: •Soreption •PigsPigsPigsPigsPigsPigsPigs •It Dies Today •Orbit Culture •Like a Storm •Bright Curse •Spite •Heart in Hand •Flight of Sleipenar (certainly misspelled!) •Through the Flood •Elder •Crown the Beast •Nekrogoblikon (nobody ever knows) •Sylosis •Necrophobic •Russian Circles (idk if they're Russian) •Blackbraid •Born of Osiris (many people don't know them surprisingly) •Your Demise •Ocean in my Bath •To the Grave •The Necromancers "Black Marble House" •Ed Schraders Music Beat "DUNCE" •Grotto "Circle of Magii" album •Within the Ruins •Sun Eater (BAND, not the Lorna song) •Abiotic •Heaven Shall Burn •Cult of Luna •A Vain Attempt (Yea I remember what the fuck I was... go steal your sister's pants and eyeliner before listening.) ...Oh man I LOVE a whistle-fry!!! Fun and simple to do ...usually. Listen to the group 'Face Yourself' if this is your thing. Chick-vocals and she's absolutely goddamn brilliant. •OhGod! •The Death Riders •Rise to Fall •Ruins of Perception •Jeff Loomis & Keith Merrow "The Ultimatum" (all guitar, Mark don't listen... all just one endless arpeggio) •Emmure •Ill Niño •Shrine of Malice •Archspire (Mark DO listen to this) •Zeal & Ardour •Distant •Like Moths to Flames (...are they still a thing? Classic band) •Kvelertak •War of Ages •Crown Magnetar •Mors Principium Est •Orchid •Insomnium •Ruby the Hatchet (NONmetal) •Worm Shephard •Inquisition •Silverstein (I think they were heavier) •Alunah •IAH •Oceans Ate Alaska (more nostalgia) •Omnium Gatherum •Zardonic •DVNE •Dreamtime ("Bermuda", "Baphomet", "Serpent's Tongue" & "The Sentient") •A Sound of Thunder •Marionette "A New High" •Sold Soul •The Browning (hate that name) •A Wake in Providence •Wage War •Blood Ceremony (sexy mix of like... Jethro Tull & maybe Pat Benetar) •Shores of Lunacy •Holy Serpent •High on Fire •Kylesa •MgīA? (MG[L?]A? It's Blackmetal) •Opal in Sky •Converge •Thou •The Plot in You "...like Satan getting a colonoscopy" ahhh so a pleasant joyous tone? Also RAMBLE AWAY Mark, you will not out-longwind this person. Oh & throat singing is seriously one of the skeleton keys to this stuff, especially for the low-end. The difference between a tibetan monk "oohhhhm"ing and a Ben Duerr style growl is like not even a 2mm shift in your hardware. •Silent Descent •Watain •King Gizzard and the fucking Lizard Wizard! (minus the fucking of course) •Unida •A Night in Texas •Before Their Eyes •The Halo Effect •Apenheimer (definitely spelled wrong, "Bloodlines" should get you closer) •Kevlar •While She Sleeps •Tuber •Stargazer Lilies "Foreverless" (I want to do a much heavier variant of this) •Monolord •Né Obliviscaris •1000Mods •Salt the Wound •Scorpion Child (NONmetal) •Year of the Goat Shit we all hit walls guys. I played lead guitar 15 years and couldn't do a decent arpeggio until fucking January... THIS YEAR but then it was just like 100% there whatever I wanted (10,000 hours thing maybe?). I could easily keep going but I'd shit if anyone made it all the way down this one. Now THIS is long-winded!
Tatiana uses false fold for her screams. Now airflow - that is really intersting. She uses virtually no air in making this sound. Watch a video called Judgement and Punishment one take. She is singing about an inch from a cardioid mic with no pop screen. At no point is there even a hint of popping. During her normal voice singing this is down to her amazing control of consonants. This is a woman in total control of her voice.
"She's a pro". Indeed. When it comes to fast switches between cleans and screams, Tati is like one of the absolute best vocalists in the world right now.
Totally agree. For those ladies that do both clean and harsh, my current top 5 in no particular order (and their main groups) would be : Tatiana Adrienne Cowen (Seven Spires) Lauren Hart (Once Human) Courtney LaPlante (Spiritbox) Melissa Bonny (Ad Infinitum) If Floor Jansen ever did a deep dive into harsh techniques, she'd probably destroy as well. The hints in stuff like Yours Is an Empty Hope and both ReVamp albums show a shitload of promise if she made more of an effort to further develop her pipes in that direction.
Didn't notice it was a 1 hour plus video but loved the back and forth. As a barely passable karaoke singer and a practicing bass player and backup vocalist.... I loved learning what I could from your conversation!❤
@@KardavoxAcademy you 2 should def be doing a podcast imo, maybe take this sort of long format reaction without worrying about tangents, cause this was a great video, lots of insight and interesting stories
Speaking as a Jinjer fan, this was very entertaining. Thank you for this! I'm probably dreaming, but I would *love* to see Mark structure each of a series of harsh vocal lessons for Veronna around an example from a Jinjer song or performance.
Having listened to full Kardashev albums before (and liked it) via random youtube suggestions, "I'm a singer in my band Kardashev" really hit me by surprise. Great work dude.
Jinjer is basically a jazz band that plays metal. At least a good percentage of Jinjer songs have a jazz fondation. Jinjer also expermaints combining reggae with metal. Each Jinjer song is distinct and different. Jinjer is very much an adventure.
@@paulriddle7818i think they already approach songwriting classically. They say Vlad wrote 80% of the songs on Wallflowers. You can hear how he composes songs like classical pieces. Then they play them with full metal distortion.
On some of the parts during the chorus her vocals are double tracked which is why you hear a lower and upper tone. It fills it in and gives more impact.
That "octave" that she's hearing is her vocals being layered. I'm glad she heard that. This video was a "live studio take" but she had a backing track to extenuate the higher screams. She's very talented, don't get me wrong, but people say that she does all of these cool things and it's usually just layering
I'm no singing expert so I might be missing something but, I believe that what Veronna was referring at 45:15 is actually a layered voice, although this song is live in studio, it is produced and has at least some voice layers, and they use them in live shows, they have said it on interviews, so that's a live version for them
I believe that it _is_ layered there, and I was surprised that he didn't mention that it is very common to have multiple takes of the vocals layered in this kind of music. Tatiana definitely has overtones going on during her harsh vocals, but I don't think they're what was being asked about at the part that was focused on.
All of the newer live vids from them and actually seeing them last year, they don’t use backing vocals. In the part where you can hear her both clean and harsh vocals, she doesn’t do the clean part live.
@@DaveReece-u4b For sure, using layered vocals here ain't a knock on her, be silly not to take advantage of production capabilities in the studio, but she is legit and a beast live.
The new edition to the KardavoxAcademy could pass as a sister or twin to Julia Nilon. Both starting their Harsh Vocal journey with Tatiana being part of it. Dope to see other singers diving into new ways how to use their voice.
This was wonderfull, amasing and best analysis ever!!!!! I absolutely loved This!!! OMG, all The tecknical adwise and professional knolidge!!! I loved, loved This!!! Best ever!
love all the reactions and the back and forth lessons! very insightful :) I do have to object to the knife analogy though. the duller the knife the more likely it will slip and hurt you; the sharper the knife, the less force you use, the safer it is. a more appt analogy might be giving someone that's never shot a gun before an fully auto SMG with a drum mag
Loving the contrasted theory and stylistic views of both styles. This is a great video for everyone…… everyone can learn something ( even us non singers lol). I find myself trying to sing as hard as both throw out ideas of what’s happening. 👏👏
6:45 You can say that. She has said that, she has mentioned Gwen Stefani as an influence, and you can clearly hear it in a lot of songs, including this one. She loves No Doubt
Yeah WITHIN A WORD over and over, I don't know any other vocalist that can do that. Courtney LaPlante is a beast. And she does it not just one-tale but live.
While shes talking about the jazz attack in the opening phrase - you need to do this again with Judgement and Punishment for the reggae elements LOL. Do the one take version Tatiana posted. This is like Will Ramos and Elizabeth from Charismatic Voice - she even learned to scream doing cross overs like this!
I found that my way to learn growling was to start with whispering... And then increasing the raspyness. Or trying to whisper and scream at the same time.. and then just work on getting louder
Tati doesn't do operatic style singing (to my knowledge), but she definitely does poppy, jazzy, reggae, rap and hard rock style clean singing, all with great facility, as well as a wide range of harsh vocal styles. She's kind of a virtuoso.
i prefer this format over the others. im more interested in hearing a conversation rather than someone talking to a camera. id love it if the rest of your videos become this, but i understand if that's not feasible
What a treat! Wonderful to receive an hour of analysis from you two. Veronna's insights really added to my understanding of what Tatiana is doing (in addition to what Mark shed light on a few years ago)🎉
Non-musician & non-vocalist who enjoys learning about music and the musicians I love from vocal coach and musician analysis. The comments from 7:08 about adapting to the music makes me curious to see a comparison of how she handles the cleans in a song where the clean vocals are coupled with heavier music. For example Perennial live at Wacken, the new Audiotree live studio session of Dead Hands Feel No Pain, or On The Top live in Kiev (now Kyiv)
A couple of added bits. Tati doesn't do the belt in Pisces live. She has said she's afraid shell mess it up so she growls it. For the songs she switches between growls and belts live theres maybe another second in between. She does switch insanely fast between regular cleans and growls though, such as in Teacher Teacher or Sit Stay Roll Over live in Melbourne. Also Tati has expressed very similar sentiments about how much live performance improves singing skill. In the years between getting serious about singing and joining Jinjer she was in 7 bands and at one point she says she was in 4 bands to get as much clean singing practice as possible while practicing growls. She said she didn't master growls until she started doing them live though.
@@j.f.fisher5318 Ya, I've always thought that she needs a second (or a fraction of a second) more time after the harsh vocal to set up for that belt than the studio track would allow. She can handle the setup for a less intense clean tone with no trouble at all, as shown by Vortex, Perennial and many other examples.
There is an interview with Tatiana where she explains that higher harmony bit, They went in, did the take for the video, the production for it though after the engineer layered in some extra recordings from the actual studio session for the song in a couple places, so there is actually a second vocal track in those spots, that were leftover cuts from making the album version of the song. So there is some production on it, even though it was a live session.
Mark, show Verona Dan Vasc's metal version of Burn Butcher, Burn. It includes clean singing, soft and operatic, high power metal shrieks and growls. It will throw her for so many loops! Since Veronica has been playing with male style vocals, some Unleash the Archers may be in order. Britney's instrument is very feminine, but her style like a powder tenor!
When it comes to open mic, Helsinki also has some bars where you can go and do karaoke on harsh vocal songs. Or bars where you can sing regular rock songs in harsh vocals. I thing singer of the band Norther used to do this for fun with this friends. Some of the best covers then ended up as bonus tracks on their albums. But Helsinki of course is one of the most metal capital cities in the world.
You need to show her Nightwish: Ghost love score as it has all of the techniques. It's really cool seeing people that know the techniques and help each other understand them.
Funny how you got a bit lost in the weeds about the second chorus when it says in the video description that there are backing vocals added to the live performance. Although the overtones discussion was interesting and the goblin screams with the voice underneath that Mark did were so cool! The quick switch with the belted part is difficult enough that Tati doesn't do it at concerts. She normally screams all the way through it. I'm not sure what it is about that specific part that makes it harder, because she does a lot of rapid switching with other songs. Maybe it's just how high that belted note is.
The Snarky Puppy discussion reminds me of a technique some bass singers like to use for very low notes; a lot of people call it "subharmonics," though I don't know if it has a technical term. Singer Geoff Castellucci has a good tutorial video on how to get started, but the general approach is to first sing the higher octave of the note you want to sing in the target octave. (So, if you want to sing a C2, start on a C3.) while singing that higher octave, you need to relax your voice just enough so that the higher octave kind of breaks up, and through complicated physics, you can end up hearing the sung note 1 octave lower. Interesting side note: somehow playing around with subharmonics made it easier to figure out how to use fry screaming. I'm not sure how one thing let me to another, but I was happy to get there.
25:10 I can't believe this is a thing people just do, I've been doing this for years just for fun! When playing music I'll do it to change the sound of it, I never really thought about how that ties into my harsh vocals. This is really cool info!
Regarding Lalah Hathaway (the woman from the Snarky Puppy video they talked about), it’s SO breathy without causing immediate fatigue & irritation, plus the overtone is kinda rumbly and has more of a “pitch center” (almost in, like, a “shimmery” way?), I’m convinced her false folds are the star of that show. Maybe I’m nuts, but if she pushed it with a slightly different coordination it could sound a lot like the “But go, but go, but go!” from Chelsea Grin - Fathomless Maw (~ 38sec in).
about the scream one octave up (45:10), it's a multitracked double that comes in for the last part of the phrase! literally tatiana twice, separated by an octave :) verona's ear is great, she nailed it
Truly great analysis. Instant sub. I'm excited to see where you go with this! Tatiana is a unicorn. She can do so many different things with her voice. I'm a big fan of all the sounds the human voice is capable of. She brings a lot to the table. Whistle fry scream--sounds like you're talking about dUg Pinnick of King's X! That dude is insane! I've watched him do that, and it almost looks like he has air pockets in the sides of his neck. Or muscles there that flex. It's insane. He'll start with the fry and take it into whistle register. Very unusual for a man. He has a great instrument.
i honestly loved watching this conversation i started my vocal journey being classically trained & then trained for musical theatre i attest a lot of my ability to work out harsh vocals over the past 20 odd years, to the way opera and MT taught me how to hear something and sound THAT way. but honestly imho even if just for the breath control, every vocalist no matter the harshness, should do some classical lessons great video tho 🫶🏼
Brilliant musicians. I like Tatiana's gutteral singing and her Jazz type voice is really good. I love her vocals on 'King of Everything', she is clean for the whole song and has an Amy Winehouse tone to it.
The octave up is post production, the chorus is clearly doubled, there are whispers here and there, like in the "drowns in the liquid gold" section, "cherished his life to the underworld", and " suffocate in painful tortures"... I don't think it's just the mics in the room and delays, you can hear the additional track from post production there. It's not a straight up live performance. Still, super impressive.
i mastered the raspy growly bluesy voice by watching Stevie Ray Vaughan... and that taught me how to fry healthily.. and i was able to sing stuff like ACDC, CCR, and even Joe Cocker stuff without hurting myself ... and when i hear bands like Linkin Park, and Blink182 in the early days.. or even Metallica's James Hetfield in the KEA And RTL days... jesus.... my throat hurts listening to it... so great lessons on how to do harsh growls .. cuz i never understood how people do it.. and you gave me great insight on how to do it.
I really dig the vibe between you two, and the geeking out about biomechanics. I wasn't sure if I could hang for over an hour, but it turned out to absolutely not be a problem. I would love to see similar treatment of some of the Japanese ladies of metal. If I may make some specific suggestions: Hanabie "We Love Sweets" ua-cam.com/video/G18yyvPCiTM/v-deo.html is a great sampler of Yukina's range of vocal styles. (btw, it's pronounced Hanabi-eh) Nemophila "Ama-Te-Ras" ua-cam.com/video/96LQimRqJgM/v-deo.html not the most metal song in their repertoire, but I think the way Mayu slides between clean and harsh vocals is interesting Lovebites "Holy War" ua-cam.com/video/bgAxpEpEcno/v-deo.html no harsh vocals here, but a great example of what a pop/soul/R&B vocalist can do with a great power/thrash band behind her Also, the thing about disco at the end reminded me of Hanabie's cover of Imagine Dragons "Believer", which might not be super technically interesting, but is a lot of fun.
Verona: for your April fools challenge look at a cover of judgement and punishment by jinjer, it's a mix of harsh, pop and reggae. Should be really challenging but cover a good range of styles (she also smashed out the single in one take!)
hey mark, you should listen to jinjer's last album Wallflowers if you haven't already. i think it's more up your alley than their previous albums, i know it is for me anyway.
For the record, I love Mark's cleans. To be honest, I preferred the clarity of them on TBoS more than the fx on Liminal Rite. Not saying those were bad or anything, it was a different stylistic choice that I think works well with the theme, I just like those angelic cleans on Snow-Sleep, for example.
When they recorded this the got to this studio early so Tat laid down some overlay vocals which we first hear on the second chorus- on "blaze", then on "brings life". I'd have to go back and listen to the original studio version on King of Everything that this is the only time we hear that upper octave. There's also a late bit on the song-"searching for a hook to catch on" is the only time she goes up high like she does here outside of original studio track on KOE. She doesn't do it live as she's afraid she'll miff it up.
If you have enough skills, you can do Revamp: Misery's no Crime in karaoke. That only needs low growls and operatic soprano sounds for a single song...
Also when she hears I Speak Astronomy she's going to lose it. The thing with this song is people freak out, and say that was amazing! And I say, oh you ain't heard nothing yet
Interested in Vocal lessons? Want to learn to scream like a demon and sing like an angel? Head over to kardavoxacademy.com and let us help you reach those vocal goals! Check out our Alumni playlist here on UA-cam to see for yourself! ua-cam.com/play/PLUWlpPRyCEaZiPCurr6_lxxI1Y3qjB1-4.html
Want another weird and unusual singer?【LIVE映像】unravel 日本武道館 2023.8.30【Ado】 ua-cam.com/video/khplMpm4ctc/v-deo.htmlsi=jwJLXmGctvf9ovoZ She is Japanese, the language may be unfamiliar. But she is currently #1 in Japan, and she is 21 years old.
I thought you were showing her a Jinjer song?😮
@@williamuptgraft1755 nah sorry wrong video
Can I suggest a few bands you probably haven't heard??
I'm gonna anyways. We'll try to mix it up. From Deathmetal, Blackmetal, Metalcore (fuckin' classics back there) to Doom-metal, Deathcore... JK I listen to all music. It's the only genre, but I know what y'all are about. Some of these aren't together anymore:
•Soreption
•PigsPigsPigsPigsPigsPigsPigs
•It Dies Today
•Orbit Culture
•Like a Storm
•Bright Curse
•Spite
•Heart in Hand
•Flight of Sleipenar (certainly misspelled!)
•Through the Flood
•Elder
•Crown the Beast
•Nekrogoblikon (nobody ever knows)
•Sylosis
•Necrophobic
•Russian Circles (idk if they're Russian)
•Blackbraid
•Born of Osiris (many people don't know them surprisingly)
•Your Demise
•Ocean in my Bath
•To the Grave
•The Necromancers "Black Marble House"
•Ed Schraders Music Beat "DUNCE"
•Grotto "Circle of Magii" album
•Within the Ruins
•Sun Eater (BAND, not the Lorna song)
•Abiotic
•Heaven Shall Burn
•Cult of Luna
•A Vain Attempt (Yea I remember what the fuck I was... go steal your sister's pants and eyeliner before listening.)
...Oh man I LOVE a whistle-fry!!! Fun and simple to do ...usually. Listen to the group 'Face Yourself'
if this is your thing. Chick-vocals and she's absolutely goddamn brilliant.
•OhGod!
•The Death Riders
•Rise to Fall
•Ruins of Perception
•Jeff Loomis & Keith Merrow "The Ultimatum" (all guitar, Mark don't listen... all just one endless arpeggio)
•Emmure
•Ill Niño
•Shrine of Malice
•Archspire (Mark DO listen to this)
•Zeal & Ardour
•Distant
•Like Moths to Flames (...are they still a thing? Classic band)
•Kvelertak
•War of Ages
•Crown Magnetar
•Mors Principium Est
•Orchid
•Insomnium
•Ruby the Hatchet (NONmetal)
•Worm Shephard
•Inquisition
•Silverstein (I think they were heavier)
•Alunah
•IAH
•Oceans Ate Alaska (more nostalgia)
•Omnium Gatherum
•Zardonic
•DVNE
•Dreamtime ("Bermuda", "Baphomet", "Serpent's Tongue" & "The Sentient")
•A Sound of Thunder
•Marionette "A New High"
•Sold Soul
•The Browning (hate that name)
•A Wake in Providence
•Wage War
•Blood Ceremony (sexy mix of like... Jethro Tull & maybe Pat Benetar)
•Shores of Lunacy
•Holy Serpent
•High on Fire
•Kylesa
•MgīA? (MG[L?]A? It's Blackmetal)
•Opal in Sky
•Converge
•Thou
•The Plot in You
"...like Satan getting a colonoscopy" ahhh so a pleasant joyous tone? Also RAMBLE AWAY Mark, you will not out-longwind this person. Oh & throat singing is seriously one of the skeleton keys to this stuff, especially for the low-end. The difference between a tibetan monk "oohhhhm"ing and a Ben Duerr style growl is like not even a 2mm shift in your hardware.
•Silent Descent
•Watain
•King Gizzard and the fucking Lizard Wizard! (minus the fucking of course)
•Unida
•A Night in Texas
•Before Their Eyes
•The Halo Effect
•Apenheimer (definitely spelled wrong, "Bloodlines" should get you closer)
•Kevlar
•While She Sleeps
•Tuber
•Stargazer Lilies "Foreverless" (I want to do a much heavier variant of this)
•Monolord
•Né Obliviscaris
•1000Mods
•Salt the Wound
•Scorpion Child (NONmetal)
•Year of the Goat
Shit we all hit walls guys. I played lead guitar 15 years and couldn't do a decent arpeggio until fucking January... THIS YEAR but then it was just like 100% there whatever I wanted (10,000 hours thing maybe?). I could easily keep going but I'd shit if anyone made it all the way down this one. Now THIS is long-winded!
wake up babe its time to binge jinjer pisces reactions again
Just not this “reaction” . This is wayyyyyyyyyyy too long. They listen to 30s then talked for 20 minutes
Every time. 😂
@@ohnorickyo which is the entire point of the channel lol. it's not a reaction channel, its a vocal technique channel.
At this point, this is an addition.
Oh dang is it that time of the year already?? Let's do it!
Tatiana uses false fold for her screams. Now airflow - that is really intersting. She uses virtually no air in making this sound. Watch a video called Judgement and Punishment one take. She is singing about an inch from a cardioid mic with no pop screen. At no point is there even a hint of popping. During her normal voice singing this is down to her amazing control of consonants. This is a woman in total control of her voice.
false cords move due to flow of the air moving out of the lungs.
"She's a pro". Indeed. When it comes to fast switches between cleans and screams, Tati is like one of the absolute best vocalists in the world right now.
Shifting IS no problem, singing clean without destorting IS harder, keeping The Voice clean?
Totally agree. For those ladies that do both clean and harsh, my current top 5 in no particular order (and their main groups) would be :
Tatiana
Adrienne Cowen (Seven Spires)
Lauren Hart (Once Human)
Courtney LaPlante (Spiritbox)
Melissa Bonny (Ad Infinitum)
If Floor Jansen ever did a deep dive into harsh techniques, she'd probably destroy as well. The hints in stuff like Yours Is an Empty Hope and both ReVamp albums show a shitload of promise if she made more of an effort to further develop her pipes in that direction.
🤘Floor executed it live with her second Revamp album@@matthewarms3786
100% agreed!
@@matthewarms3786 If you haven't heard Japanese singers, your list would be different.
Didn't notice it was a 1 hour plus video but loved the back and forth. As a barely passable karaoke singer and a practicing bass player and backup vocalist.... I loved learning what I could from your conversation!❤
I was expecting silly chaos with learning on the side. THATS WHAT WE GOT
Haha glad you dug it!
@@KardavoxAcademy you 2 should def be doing a podcast imo, maybe take this sort of long format reaction without worrying about tangents, cause this was a great video, lots of insight and interesting stories
Speaking as a Jinjer fan, this was very entertaining. Thank you for this!
I'm probably dreaming, but I would *love* to see Mark structure each of a series of harsh vocal lessons for Veronna around an example from a Jinjer song or performance.
Do glad you like the video! Also... Something very similar to your idea is being edited as we speak :)
@@KardavoxAcademy YEESSSS!
@@KardavoxAcademyLOVE this idea! I was not at all interested in harsh vocals until I heard Tatiana Doo it!
Maybe some Jari Mäenpää / Wintersun, another singing growler/screamer?
She has basically no attack... it is smooth... preparing my drink and popcorn! ^^
I literally am eating chips and drinking wine, and had the same thought.
Having listened to full Kardashev albums before (and liked it) via random youtube suggestions, "I'm a singer in my band Kardashev" really hit me by surprise. Great work dude.
Yo, thanks so much for the kind words! Appreciate you!
Ayyyy the co-reactions at last! I'm very excited for this!
Jinjer is basically a jazz band that plays metal. At least a good percentage of Jinjer songs have a jazz fondation. Jinjer also expermaints combining reggae with metal. Each Jinjer song is distinct and different. Jinjer is very much an adventure.
Evidently this next album will have a classical influence.
The existence of soft jazz means that there must be hard jazz. This is hard jazz
@@paulriddle7818i think they already approach songwriting classically. They say Vlad wrote 80% of the songs on Wallflowers. You can hear how he composes songs like classical pieces. Then they play them with full metal distortion.
@@ericpeterson7512 We will find out Aug 1st when Jinjer drops some news. Which is probably the first single.
@@shaman9 Maybe death Jazz can be a thing. When i think of hard jazz i thoink something not as heavy.
On some of the parts during the chorus her vocals are double tracked which is why you hear a lower and upper tone. It fills it in and gives more impact.
Yes. Not on the first chorus, but on the second chorus. On "brings life."
Now it's time to watch the one take performance of Judgement and Punishment
That "octave" that she's hearing is her vocals being layered. I'm glad she heard that. This video was a "live studio take" but she had a backing track to extenuate the higher screams. She's very talented, don't get me wrong, but people say that she does all of these cool things and it's usually just layering
Awesome co-op !! Great info on both sides and fun to see some similarities.
Great and very informative collaboration. Glad to see Jinjer back on the channel. Looking forward to more Jinjer! 🍻🤘🏼
More podcast-reactions please! This was really awesome to hear you two share your very different perspectives, knowledge, and stories!
I'm no singing expert so I might be missing something but, I believe that what Veronna was referring at 45:15 is actually a layered voice, although this song is live in studio, it is produced and has at least some voice layers, and they use them in live shows, they have said it on interviews, so that's a live version for them
I believe that it _is_ layered there, and I was surprised that he didn't mention that it is very common to have multiple takes of the vocals layered in this kind of music.
Tatiana definitely has overtones going on during her harsh vocals, but I don't think they're what was being asked about at the part that was focused on.
100% there are layered vocals in that last verse especially, easily audible.
All of the newer live vids from them and actually seeing them last year, they don’t use backing vocals. In the part where you can hear her both clean and harsh vocals, she doesn’t do the clean part live.
@@DaveReece-u4b For sure, using layered vocals here ain't a knock on her, be silly not to take advantage of production capabilities in the studio, but she is legit and a beast live.
You guys should definitly start a Podcast xD !!
Hey not a bad idea!
Great idea!
Enjoyed the podcast-esque reaction and to hear the two of you geeking out over different vocal techniques! Would love to see more.
The new edition to the KardavoxAcademy could pass as a sister or twin to Julia Nilon. Both starting their Harsh Vocal journey with Tatiana being part of it. Dope to see other singers diving into new ways how to use their voice.
This was wonderfull, amasing and best analysis ever!!!!! I absolutely loved This!!! OMG, all The tecknical adwise and professional knolidge!!!
I loved, loved This!!! Best ever!
love all the reactions and the back and forth lessons! very insightful :)
I do have to object to the knife analogy though. the duller the knife the more likely it will slip and hurt you; the sharper the knife, the less force you use, the safer it is. a more appt analogy might be giving someone that's never shot a gun before an fully auto SMG with a drum mag
If people like it? We LOVE this!
Loving the contrasted theory and stylistic views of both styles. This is a great video for everyone…… everyone can learn something ( even us non singers lol). I find myself trying to sing as hard as both throw out ideas of what’s happening. 👏👏
Love you as you say “little Accent”. Love listening to you talk your voice is beautiful to me
Great reactions and breakdowns. Got introduced to two great bands today, Jinjer and Snarky Puppy. Thank you for that.
6:45 You can say that. She has said that, she has mentioned Gwen Stefani as an influence, and you can clearly hear it in a lot of songs, including this one. She loves No Doubt
You gotta show her Courtney doing the one take of Circle With Me for those snap transitions from cleans to screams at the end
Yeah WITHIN A WORD over and over, I don't know any other vocalist that can do that. Courtney LaPlante is a beast. And she does it not just one-tale but live.
Exactly
Amazing song for Courtney, circle white me, i love too Whore for In this moment
Harsh vocal journey veronna?!!!!
NOW THATS FUCKING INTERESTING ❤ 🤯🤯🤯
One of the best Psices reactions I've seen on YT: it's really a reaction, no just surprised looks
This song is such a good showcase of different singing and screaming techniques. She's got perfect control.
Tatiana is in a league of her own. Great post! Much love from Alabama.
While shes talking about the jazz attack in the opening phrase - you need to do this again with Judgement and Punishment for the reggae elements LOL. Do the one take version Tatiana posted.
This is like Will Ramos and Elizabeth from Charismatic Voice - she even learned to scream doing cross overs like this!
I thought there's no way I'm going to watch a 1:22 long video--but I watched and enjoyed the whole thing! Good job y'all!
I am so excited to be along the ride for Veronna's screaming journey. What a good content idea.
I looked at the whole video. Great content and energy ❤
I found that my way to learn growling was to start with whispering... And then increasing the raspyness.
Or trying to whisper and scream at the same time.. and then just work on getting louder
Jinjer dropped new single this week and it has some great cleans and a great video.
Tati doesn't do operatic style singing (to my knowledge), but she definitely does poppy, jazzy, reggae, rap and hard rock style clean singing, all with great facility, as well as a wide range of harsh vocal styles. She's kind of a virtuoso.
Yeah, for opera you'd want Brittney Slays.
She got a lot from that by Guano Apes and she even states 'em as big influence on her style.
Superb video! I'm looking forward to see more with you two.
i prefer this format over the others. im more interested in hearing a conversation rather than someone talking to a camera. id love it if the rest of your videos become this, but i understand if that's not feasible
What a treat! Wonderful to receive an hour of analysis from you two. Veronna's insights really added to my understanding of what Tatiana is doing (in addition to what Mark shed light on a few years ago)🎉
Oh I’m so happy to read you!! Glad you liked it 😊
Non-musician & non-vocalist who enjoys learning about music and the musicians I love from vocal coach and musician analysis. The comments from 7:08 about adapting to the music makes me curious to see a comparison of how she handles the cleans in a song where the clean vocals are coupled with heavier music. For example Perennial live at Wacken, the new Audiotree live studio session of Dead Hands Feel No Pain, or On The Top live in Kiev (now Kyiv)
A couple of added bits. Tati doesn't do the belt in Pisces live. She has said she's afraid shell mess it up so she growls it. For the songs she switches between growls and belts live theres maybe another second in between. She does switch insanely fast between regular cleans and growls though, such as in Teacher Teacher or Sit Stay Roll Over live in Melbourne. Also Tati has expressed very similar sentiments about how much live performance improves singing skill. In the years between getting serious about singing and joining Jinjer she was in 7 bands and at one point she says she was in 4 bands to get as much clean singing practice as possible while practicing growls. She said she didn't master growls until she started doing them live though.
@@j.f.fisher5318 Ya, I've always thought that she needs a second (or a fraction of a second) more time after the harsh vocal to set up for that belt than the studio track would allow. She can handle the setup for a less intense clean tone with no trouble at all, as shown by Vortex, Perennial and many other examples.
There is an interview with Tatiana where she explains that higher harmony bit, They went in, did the take for the video, the production for it though after the engineer layered in some extra recordings from the actual studio session for the song in a couple places, so there is actually a second vocal track in those spots, that were leftover cuts from making the album version of the song. So there is some production on it, even though it was a live session.
"A wizard is never late, he arrives right when they are supposed to!"
Great fun, great information, great future guys, bring on some more !
@17:22 Then there's Mark, casually throwing down Thy Art is Murder vocals like he is ordering a sandwich...
I'd love you both to checkout "Judgement and Punishment" one take, it would discover many interesting things - how does Tati perform her singing.
Mark, show Verona Dan Vasc's metal version of Burn Butcher, Burn. It includes clean singing, soft and operatic, high power metal shrieks and growls. It will throw her for so many loops! Since Veronica has been playing with male style vocals, some Unleash the Archers may be in order. Britney's instrument is very feminine, but her style like a powder tenor!
When it comes to open mic, Helsinki also has some bars where you can go and do karaoke on harsh vocal songs. Or bars where you can sing regular rock songs in harsh vocals. I thing singer of the band Norther used to do this for fun with this friends. Some of the best covers then ended up as bonus tracks on their albums.
But Helsinki of course is one of the most metal capital cities in the world.
so, we show her the Hu next, right?
Loved listening to the conversation, would totally listen to a podcast hosted by these two about vocals!
You need to show her Nightwish: Ghost love score as it has all of the techniques.
It's really cool seeing people that know the techniques and help each other understand them.
Funny how you got a bit lost in the weeds about the second chorus when it says in the video description that there are backing vocals added to the live performance. Although the overtones discussion was interesting and the goblin screams with the voice underneath that Mark did were so cool!
The quick switch with the belted part is difficult enough that Tati doesn't do it at concerts. She normally screams all the way through it. I'm not sure what it is about that specific part that makes it harder, because she does a lot of rapid switching with other songs. Maybe it's just how high that belted note is.
A quick switch from scream to falsetto and belting, and vice versa, I had to hear recently
hahaha, wow! This was a very fun video! She was great, a lot of fun, I felt. :)
This was very entertaining 🎉
Hell yeah, glad you liked it!=
Your dynamic is awesome
The Snarky Puppy discussion reminds me of a technique some bass singers like to use for very low notes; a lot of people call it "subharmonics," though I don't know if it has a technical term. Singer Geoff Castellucci has a good tutorial video on how to get started, but the general approach is to first sing the higher octave of the note you want to sing in the target octave. (So, if you want to sing a C2, start on a C3.) while singing that higher octave, you need to relax your voice just enough so that the higher octave kind of breaks up, and through complicated physics, you can end up hearing the sung note 1 octave lower. Interesting side note: somehow playing around with subharmonics made it easier to figure out how to use fry screaming. I'm not sure how one thing let me to another, but I was happy to get there.
25:10 I can't believe this is a thing people just do, I've been doing this for years just for fun! When playing music I'll do it to change the sound of it, I never really thought about how that ties into my harsh vocals. This is really cool info!
All I can say is WOW!! ❤ from western 🇨🇦 😍
Regarding Lalah Hathaway (the woman from the Snarky Puppy video they talked about), it’s SO breathy without causing immediate fatigue & irritation, plus the overtone is kinda rumbly and has more of a “pitch center” (almost in, like, a “shimmery” way?), I’m convinced her false folds are the star of that show.
Maybe I’m nuts, but if she pushed it with a slightly different coordination it could sound a lot like the “But go, but go, but go!” from Chelsea Grin - Fathomless Maw (~ 38sec in).
Love your insights. More please 🙏 😂
I love everyone's initial reaction, it's like trying to reconcile what they are hearing with what it's coming out of.
about the scream one octave up (45:10), it's a multitracked double that comes in for the last part of the phrase! literally tatiana twice, separated by an octave :) verona's ear is great, she nailed it
Truly great analysis. Instant sub. I'm excited to see where you go with this!
Tatiana is a unicorn. She can do so many different things with her voice. I'm a big fan of all the sounds the human voice is capable of. She brings a lot to the table.
Whistle fry scream--sounds like you're talking about dUg Pinnick of King's X! That dude is insane! I've watched him do that, and it almost looks like he has air pockets in the sides of his neck. Or muscles there that flex. It's insane. He'll start with the fry and take it into whistle register. Very unusual for a man. He has a great instrument.
still one of the most reacted to video on youtube ever
i honestly loved watching this conversation
i started my vocal journey being classically trained & then trained for musical theatre
i attest a lot of my ability to work out harsh vocals over the past 20 odd years, to the way opera and MT taught me how to hear something and sound THAT way.
but honestly
imho
even if just for the breath control, every vocalist no matter the harshness, should do some classical lessons
great video tho
🫶🏼
Wow that’s awesome! I really agree 😊
Brilliant musicians. I like Tatiana's gutteral singing and her Jazz type voice is really good. I love her vocals on 'King of Everything', she is clean for the whole song and has an Amy Winehouse tone to it.
Damn. Best "reaction" video so far. Thanks.
Been waiting for a co reaction with you two
Tati is a freakin godess!!!
I enjoyed this reaction podcast.
The octave up is post production, the chorus is clearly doubled, there are whispers here and there, like in the "drowns in the liquid gold" section, "cherished his life to the underworld", and " suffocate in painful tortures"... I don't think it's just the mics in the room and delays, you can hear the additional track from post production there. It's not a straight up live performance. Still, super impressive.
I would really like you two talk about "Teacher, Teacher"
Verona, Jinjer is playing in Montreal in September…
Next up Disembodied Tyrant/Synestia next right right?? That would be interesting. This was good though for sure. Great vid!!
i mastered the raspy growly bluesy voice by watching Stevie Ray Vaughan... and that taught me how to fry healthily.. and i was able to sing stuff like ACDC, CCR, and even Joe Cocker stuff without hurting myself ... and when i hear bands like Linkin Park, and Blink182 in the early days.. or even Metallica's James Hetfield in the KEA And RTL days... jesus.... my throat hurts listening to it... so great lessons on how to do harsh growls .. cuz i never understood how people do it.. and you gave me great insight on how to do it.
Veronna making the most out of that Shure SM58.
I really dig the vibe between you two, and the geeking out about biomechanics. I wasn't sure if I could hang for over an hour, but it turned out to absolutely not be a problem. I would love to see similar treatment of some of the Japanese ladies of metal. If I may make some specific suggestions:
Hanabie "We Love Sweets" ua-cam.com/video/G18yyvPCiTM/v-deo.html is a great sampler of Yukina's range of vocal styles. (btw, it's pronounced Hanabi-eh)
Nemophila "Ama-Te-Ras" ua-cam.com/video/96LQimRqJgM/v-deo.html not the most metal song in their repertoire, but I think the way Mayu slides between clean and harsh vocals is interesting
Lovebites "Holy War" ua-cam.com/video/bgAxpEpEcno/v-deo.html no harsh vocals here, but a great example of what a pop/soul/R&B vocalist can do with a great power/thrash band behind her
Also, the thing about disco at the end reminded me of Hanabie's cover of Imagine Dragons "Believer", which might not be super technically interesting, but is a lot of fun.
you should do a co-reaction w/ her w/ Tatiana's one-take vocal performance of 'Judgment & Punishment'
Verona: for your April fools challenge look at a cover of judgement and punishment by jinjer, it's a mix of harsh, pop and reggae. Should be really challenging but cover a good range of styles (she also smashed out the single in one take!)
1:18:15 You need Floor Jansen, is what I’m hearing: classically trained, opera and growling all in one package.
19:09 I'm with Verona, we need the Kardashev DLC
Idea for t-shirt: Twang is the thang!
Omg YES !! 😂
Bro EVERY time. I knew the pisces live version reaction would come up
as soon as she said she's from montreal, i apparently couldn't help myself but to be the typical French Canadian thinking : Ah bin tabarnak! Nice! XD
for the part about the attacks, at the beginning of the video, wouldn't it be called a Staccato ?
@@aregesafechieryou could do Staccato with different attacks 😊
hey mark, you should listen to jinjer's last album Wallflowers if you haven't already. i think it's more up your alley than their previous albums, i know it is for me anyway.
For the record, I love Mark's cleans. To be honest, I preferred the clarity of them on TBoS more than the fx on Liminal Rite. Not saying those were bad or anything, it was a different stylistic choice that I think works well with the theme, I just like those angelic cleans on Snow-Sleep, for example.
Chick just say what you wanna say, dont worry about us! We're here for y'all's opinions not vice-versa (well... kinda tho but mainly the former).
Awesome, fun video!
What a lovely young lady, great reaction
Tati loves Gwen Stefani and spent a ton of time listening to No Doubt.
Verona might want to take a look at Eric Adams doing Swords in the Wind, a 3 octave song, at 69 😍😉😁
For a blend of harsh vocals with disco check Electric Callboy
That was a nice podcast :D
For harshes, clean and opera in one song, you should react to Disdain by Revamp (Floor Jansen's project between After Forever and Nightwish)
When they recorded this the got to this studio early so Tat laid down some overlay vocals which we first hear on the second chorus- on "blaze", then on "brings life". I'd have to go back and listen to the original studio version on King of Everything that this is the only time we hear that upper octave. There's also a late bit on the song-"searching for a hook to catch on" is the only time she goes up high like she does here outside of original studio track on KOE. She doesn't do it live as she's afraid she'll miff it up.
If you have enough skills, you can do Revamp: Misery's no Crime in karaoke. That only needs low growls and operatic soprano sounds for a single song...
Also when she hears I Speak Astronomy she's going to lose it. The thing with this song is people freak out, and say that was amazing! And I say, oh you ain't heard nothing yet