Maybe she would put him in his place if he tried to say something. He's not the crown prince after all he's the spare, maybe he's not such a pompous jerk. He's also young so who knows.
@@zipperman6045 he wouldn't have that, complex of being THE heir. He would be the spare. I wonder how that would effect his obviously jacked mental state. Edited punctuation, it bugged me lol.
One thing that would be interesting would be, at least in the books, Robert had wanted to step down as King and go fight and whore but couldn't because of Joffery and Cercsi. With Tommen as the heir, he might do that.
Naaah It's a romantic flighting fancy Plus this guy's right that tommen would definitely be a mamas boy so cercei would be the true ruler He'd never allow that lol
If Tommen is heir then Robert would abdicate like he said in the book to go be a sellsword in Essos. Only reason he didn’t in the OTL is because Joffrey is so clearly a psychopath
Yeah because Robert was really great on the follow through... That man kept promising stuff and giving up at the first obstacle. If he wasn't motivated by rage or lust, he basically did nothing and feasted.
I mean, that would definitely be nice for him but we both know that by the time his children's character became clear, he was already a drunken wreck incapable of being anything other than the king. Robert talks a big game but in reality, he's followed a path set out for him by others for decades now, and has built up quite a lot of inertia. Kings do not abdicate in the Seven Kingdoms, historically.
6:30 Stop right there: Joffrey is the one who hired the catspaw because Robert was saying it would be more merciful for Bran to die, and thought "Putting a hit on the wounded son of my father's best friend will totally make Dad proud of me." That's because Joffrey is a psycho who doesn't understand how normal people think. But Tommen has the ability to activate his mirror neurons, and so doesn't do this. Nor can I believe that single-digits Joffrey would think of murder for hire. So... no catspaw, Catelyn never goes to King's Landing, Tyrion was never abducted, Jaime never attacks Ned's men, Tywin doesn't start ravaging the Riverlands, Ned doesn't feel the need to send the girls back to Winterfell for safety... and thus Sansa doesn't make the remark that leads to Ned's moment of realization. Now, Ned *might* reach this conclusion on his own... but not definitely. While Robert disliked Joffrey because of the cat incident and other reasons, Robert would probably be a lot more attached to the likeable Tommen, and view him as an heir to be proud of. And Ned isn't likely to think of Tommen as "nothing like that fat old king". I mean, most of Ned's own kids look more like Tully's than Starks... a fact any Tommen loyalists would be eager to throw in Ned's face if Ned did cite this as a reason to believe Cersei's children were bastards. Just sayin'.
So a couple of things that kind of stand out for me with this timeline: So the thing with Ned's leg injury and him being held in the Black Cells is he was basically left untreated with his wounds and was only offered Milk of the Poppy to relive his his pain from his infection and fever. Given that his leg was never actually treated I'm thinking his leg would either need to be amputated or he probably dies of his infection during his trip to the wall. The Tyrells probably don't declare for the Lannisters if the marriage pact between Tommen and Margaery doesn't happen. At that stage of the war, the Lannisters basically needed the Tyrell's to be their financial backers and the only way they were able to secure their support was by ensuring that Margaery would be the new Queen. So Tommen probably is strong armed into forsaking his engagement to Sansa. And on that note, I don't think Tommen would be a beloved king. Even being kinder than Joffrey, he'd still have the issue of the riots within Kings Landing because the commoners were being starved because of the lack of provisions. It wasn't until the Tyrells "miraculously" started providing food for the people that the opinion shifted. So if anything, Stannis' heavy-handed punishment of the Tyrells would probably cause the most dissent amongst the people. If Ned does manage to meet again with Robb and Cat, I think he convinced Catelyn to return to Winterfell, particularly if Robb declares for Stannis like Ned requests. And on that note, Theon definitely doesn't switch sides. Robb really isn't incentivized to try and recruit the Iron Islands since part of his idea was promising the Iron Islands would also get to become their own independent kingdom. They probably still raid the North, but they're never actually able to take Winterfell. Other thing is kind of don't see Sansa or Arya surviving the sacking of Kings Landing. Cersei arranged it so that all the ladies would be murdered to prevent being SA'd should the forces break into the Castle Walls. If that happens, the Stark girls probably don't survive the night.
More like, to prevent them being lost to her side as hostages- she drunkenly revelled in telling Sansa & anyone within earshot what would happen to them, while she'd use her status as Queen to bargain for preferential treatment...
No one is talking about Ned being sent to the wall and getting to see Jon again. He would tell him his true parentage. And if we are talking about book Jon (who is alot more ambitious) this might change a couple things too.
If someone like Bloodraven was able to rise to Lord Commander as swiftly as he did, who's to say Ned couldn't? Stark reputations at the Watch being what they are. That could change the complexion of things; LC Mormont would still be alive at this earlier point, as would Maester Aemon- with all that support, & potential revelations to come much earlier- Jon could evolve into an even stronger character, with a greater sense of self- perhaps even more focused & driven. Maybe Maester Aemon could live long enough to meet his great-great neice...
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa? What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower? What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion?
tower of joy theory would be inherently flawed because we simply don't know what happened, so would be theorising over speculation and would just be ridiculous fanfiction(ey)
@@georgeh5446doesn’t that happen with most videos of this nature?☠️i mean Jaime is by most accounts a top 3 fighter in all of asoiaf. So maybe ned dies? And without Jaime in the capital maybe Hightower won’t stop the mad king from “burning them all” and if ned/reed DO still win at the tower of joy it still changes things because now Tyrion is Tywin’s heir and also i believe none of the Lannister bastards would be born
Jorah wouldn't have been able to stop the manticore for sure. Barristan was the one who stopped her from opening the ball if I remember the scene correctly. Jorah had no idea about the ball being a trap.
I feel from Stannis he would give Tommen a chance to bend the knee in person, like he did to Mance Rayder. WHAT IF.... Myrcella was married to Theon or Robin? That they were the choices Tyrion gave Pycellle. 2 separate videos I guess one for each. Margery Tyrell found a way to escape Cersei's Wildfire? What if Euron killed Balon when Robert Baratheon was killed?
22:25 aaaah, this scene again, remembering this misconception again. At least you acknowledge that Jorah Mormont was there, but forget it was Barristan Selmy that distracted Jorah in the first place.
If I remember correctly though Barristan knocked the ball out of her hand. At least in the show. If she had opened the ball the manticore probably would have stung her straight away. So it's hard to say if Jorah would have been able to do anything if Barristan had not acted in the first place.
Eh i feel like the direwolf while yes a possible give away, would allow them to brute force a escape, PLUS Dogs including one looking like wolves are not uncommon so i don't think it would be a clear give away of who she is, finally westerosi (even the nobility) aren't know for being aware of other customs so beside maybe other starks, and maybe cersei, Joffery (post trident) and robert (Pre-Death) would even know what a direwolf is or what house use it to represent itself, most would think it either a big dog or a straight up wolf, i don't rember if show or books but i remember somebody or somebodies calling a direwolf a (normal) wolf, not knowing what a direwolf is. TLDR: i believe just like in canon Arya would most likely escape but i do concede it slightly more possible she would've been captured.
I would not be surprised that if Tommen knows about his true parentage and sees war with Stannis on the horizon he would abdicate and plead for mercy. Mostly because he would not want thousands to die for a lie. Cercei might be able to convince him to send one man to the wall but not thousands to the grave. Stannis will kill Cercei and Jaime for the betrayal against Robert and I guess send Tommen and Joffrey to the Wall. Tyrion might be smart enough to flee in time to Essos. Mycella is a ? in this timeline. Tywin will have nothing left to fight with and for. No power in Kings Landing, no heir. Nothing to ally with the Tyrells over. Margery might end up with Robin Arryn as a politcal marriage between two powerful houses. She has no real path to the Queen position. Unless I do overlook a plausible way for her to get married to a Stark that isnt taken. Even if Stannis fathers a boy, he would be too young to be a match with her.
Considering the Targaryens ruled for hundreds of years, the Baratheon rule lasted for technically one generation, I think a cool what if is if Robert found out his children were bastards born of incest, then Gendry was legitimised and heir to the thrown, however, no matter what, Daeneryes has dragons, so I have a feeling wether it’s through bastards or not, the Baratheons are doomed, and their reign will always be short lived, even if they married Daeneryes, she’d probably still want her children to have the name Targaryen
If Robert ever legitimize a bastard, it’s going to be *Edric Storm* as Robert’s only *recognize* son, from an noble Lady. Gendry is a blacksmith, and not recognize by his kingly father. Also Edric has noble teachings, and raised by a noble lady.
I’ve always been a firm believer in nurture over nature, Joffrey wasn’t born evil, they might have anti social personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder or conduct disorder because both of those are more for diagnosing adults but that doesn’t make someone a monster, Joffrey is a monster because they have an alcoholic absent father who ignores their existence with a narcissistic entitled mother who spoils them with everything, Tommen and Myrcella turn out well adjusted mostly because they get ignored, raised by other people while Cerise focused completely on Joffrey, if Tommen was the eldest then Cerise would take an active hand in raising them, meaning they’d most likely be a worse person, not the sweet boy who loves cats that we like Tbh this has always been a topic I feel passionately about, I’m the person who feels the sadness GRRM intended when writing Joffrey’s death, a child brutally dying in their mothers arms, Joffrey was only 13 in the books, I don’t want to believe he was beyond help
Also I think it’s entirely possible that Little finger has Ned secretly killed if Ned isn’t executed like in cannon, it would causes more tension between house Stark and house Lannister while preventing any potential peace
But you can't deny that nature has an effect. Personality disorders are the result of a combination of of genetic susceptibility and upbringing. As the saying goes, the genes load the gun, but the environment pulls the trigger. We know Tommen feels empathy for others; Joffrey apparently never has. It should be noted that Cersei herself is the product of both her genes and her environment. If she hadn't been raised by Tywin, she probably wouldn't have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. If she'd had different genes, she'd have still had trauma from being Tywin's daughter, but wouldn't have NPD. Case in point: Her twin Jaime had the exact same environment as Cersei, but though he's done a lot of horrible things, he's nowhere near as bad as she is. Just sayin', not hatin'.
In the books wasn’t there an incident where Jeoffry almost died of disease? I swear I recall that being a thing where he got horribly sick several years before the story began and almost didn’t make it. That would be a plausible scenario and would be one that would be more interesting to explore.
He wasn't Baratheon by blood, but the Lannister bastards have long been claimed by Robert. Robert the King himself did not dispute the legitimacy of his "children". I first read the books 10 years ago and just a few weeks I realized, Ned started a needless war.
What about ’what if tommen executed cersei for blowing up the sept’ this video made me think of that, sounds fairly interesting considering that he would be a year or two older by the time the WW are a real threat. He may have searched for wisdom like Tywin taught him and become a Chad
i kind of feel that if Tommen was the elder and Heir no roll would have been reverced. i feel that tommen having all the influence of his mother before marcela and Joffry being born would have yealded the same results. Tommen would have been the one to have Joffreys mentality and cruilty, while there would have been a sweet Joffrey. or maybe she would have had 2 horrid boys . i still think Marcella being the only girl would have ALWAYS been the sweet middle child over looked untill she was sent away.
What if Jaime didn't knock Bran off the tower? Maybe Bran is a bit faster and scurries away, or maybe Jaime has a moment of conscience and can't bring himself to push him, but either way, Bran climbs down safely. Would he share what he saw ir would he stay queit?
In the books, Bran was slipping and about to fall, when Jaime pulled him up... only to then push him off. What if Jaime never touched Bran, and gravity took its course? Maybe Bran still suffers permanent paralysis. Or maybe he lands differently, and "only" breaks multiple bones, still leaving him crippled because Westerosi medicine sucks, but capable of siring offspring. Or maybe he lands on his head, suffering permanent brain damage. Or maybe he simply dies, meaning no creepy three-eyed crow or underwhelming King Bran denouement. I could live with that.
Well, that would take out Cersei, the High Sparrow, Varys, Qyburn, and the Mountain's undead corpse. Plus a lot of other people, both good and bad, smallfolk and noble. The pyromancer's guild is wiped out, and the secret of wildfire's manufacture is lost. The Iron Throne is melted to slag. Oh, and of course, Tommen and Margaery are dead. IOW, there's suddenly a huge power vacuum in Westeros. But in the absence of a physical throne to capture, or center of government, I can see Westeros fracturing back into separate kingdoms again, just as it was before Aegon's Conquest. Perhaps it wouldn't have if the Realm hadn't spent a few years wracked with civil war, or if it was still summer, but I can see a lot of nobles reacting to the news by saying, "Ah, the hell with it. I've got to figure out how to feed my own people through the coming winter. We'll sort it out come spring."
If Tommen is king, and granted the only change he has was being a Mommy child, which he already is-but perhaps worst Given that he is not cruel and actually a good king, and has great relationship with his uncle still-Tyrion, the battle of black water would be far more different than depicted and will not be the end of the Lannister the reason why tyrion has to fight the battle himself and nearly lose is because of the lack of support from Joffrey, if any and from the small council. but if Tommen and Tyrion relationship was better still, even with her mother influence and obvious dislike of his uncle, Tyrion would still be strategizing with his niece, with the latter giving him full support and actually make a different in the war. So no, i dont think it will be the end of Tommen. And to be fair, if the North stopped their march to support Stannis, Tywin will be left unoccupied and will 100% marched back to kingslanding with the Tyrell at his back. And that meant, Tyrion will be out of the picture and Tywin will be on the helm, which was a much tougher obstacle for Stannis to overcome, prolonging the fight even more. And with sansa head over heel for Tommen, and the risk of her life being threatened by the Queen was obviously there, the North support will also waver. The political game couldnt be that straightforward with Tywin playing the game. And if Robb continue his march and Tywin was occupied, Stannis will also have the same amount of soldier at the Black water battle, and against a much united uncle-niece duo, he stood even lesser chance than he has against an uninted uncle-niece combo.
What if aerys died at the defiance at duskendale? What if Daemon wanted the iron throne for himself and tried to overthrow his brother? What if balerion the black dread didn't die and was still alive during viserys reign?
Tyrells are opportunists. If North would support Stannis I do not see them supporting Lannisters or even Renly. Loras might love him but he is not the one making decisions for family. I would rather see them support Stannis and trying to get rid of his wife somehow. Stannis would like to have male heir so if he would be free to remarry Margery is great choice. It is long game but much better option in this situation.
Problem there is there is no way at that point that Stannis would work with Tyrells. That's twice at that point they crossed him. I think it's more likely that if they don't join up with the Lannisters, they probably just do what the Vale did and hole back up in their castle.
@crimsonECH1DNA he might need them. Oldtown is in Reach and Stannis changing his religion to Lord of Light would be a big problem. If he would also change lords of the Reach people from the area might gather around the next most influential house in the area which is Hightower and they have even more ties with the Faith. Stannis believes there is the bigger war to fight so he would not want to waste time to fight Reach and the Faith. Also as far as I remember his wife is of house Florent which claims better rights to Highgarder. So decision to get rid of Tyrells will look bad from political stand point.
make a what if aegon V dint die in summerhall( the incident dint spread) and the dragon eggs hatched whit no problems, lets say he hatched 3 dragon eggs, how would the story change because of this, whit aegon V dindt dying plus having dragons now, will aerys if he still got the throne end up mad in the same way?
@@The_Struggler_ yeah that wouldnt happen plus many things would change, aerys II whit 3 dragons would have crushed the rebellion, i mean i doubt he would be fighting most likely rhaegar would ride one of the dragons,(plus at the time the dragons would be fully grow the "tragedy" occured at 259 AC, and the rebellion started 282 Ac) so yeah rhaegar winning at the trident maybe, afther that maybe he will Maybe he'll strike his father and depose him idk thats what i think it would happen
@@OcarinaSapphr- idk maybe rhaegar in the future he gets one, plus at the time aerys II would rule the dragons would be fully grown, and probably had hatched more dragons, and Aegon V rules longer in this scenario so maybe aerys doesn't get crazy, or not so much as in the original timeline
I think that events at Trident affected this decision. Arya never had any sword training in Winterfell, I don't think moving to Kings Landing alone would be enough to change Ned's mind.
I believe it doesn't matter who's the 1st born there attitude towards it is the only thing that matters so I reckon tommen would probably with enough time be evil
You mean a dwarf? Well, it would probably make Tyrion and his nephew allies, as they share the same condition, and all the scorn and prejudice from others that goes with it. This Joffrey probably wouldn't have been as spoiled by Cersei, but she wouldn't have despised him like Tyrion, either. Part of her issue with Tyrion was that he "killed" her mother; the other part was that she believed he was the valonqar. No, she didn't like that he made the family "look bad" by being a dwarf, but that was only part of it. But after giving birth to a dwarf herself, Cersei began to see Tyrion as a useful compatriot in her drive to support Joffrey's right of inheritance despite his disability. Their relationship would be extremely prickly at first, but after years of working in a common cause some real amiability might have emerged. And Cersei would have encouraged Joffrey to view Tyrion as a mentor whose advice should be heeded. He may have still had sociopathic tendencies, but Tyrion would have instructed him in the practical benefits of cultivating relationships, rewarding loyalty, and at least pretending to give a damn about others feelings.
I think things would have ended up the same just with Joffery and Tommen being swapped as Cersei would put all her attention on Tommen till she had the next child which would allow her to fill Tommens head with the same assurances she did with Joffery and he would end up the same... Basically I blame Cersei for everything.
Joffrey's cruelty was more than just motherly dotting. There was something seriously wrong with him. I don't think Tommen's timid nature would be that altered by being Cersei's center of attention. Plus you could argue that Cersei dotted over Joffrey that much not only as firstborn but also because his cruelty made him the child most similar to her.
That's so dangerous and so small. Same for the godswood. That would probably be kept in the Kingswood but it would be a nightmare to keep track of them.
It means that in Winterfell, Arya is the one who escort Joffrey to the feast. Ouch...
Maybe she would put him in his place if he tried to say something. He's not the crown prince after all he's the spare, maybe he's not such a pompous jerk. He's also young so who knows.
Joff would be a fundamentally different person if he wasn't the 1st born
@@zipperman6045 he wouldn't have that, complex of being THE heir. He would be the spare. I wonder how that would effect his obviously jacked mental state.
Edited punctuation, it bugged me lol.
One thing that would be interesting would be, at least in the books, Robert had wanted to step down as King and go fight and whore but couldn't because of Joffery and Cercsi. With Tommen as the heir, he might do that.
Naaah
It's a romantic flighting fancy
Plus this guy's right that tommen would definitely be a mamas boy so cercei would be the true ruler
He'd never allow that lol
If Tommen is heir then Robert would abdicate like he said in the book to go be a sellsword in Essos. Only reason he didn’t in the OTL is because Joffrey is so clearly a psychopath
We can't be sure if he is really going there or it was jsut wishing thinking to hsi friend.
Yeah because Robert was really great on the follow through... That man kept promising stuff and giving up at the first obstacle. If he wasn't motivated by rage or lust, he basically did nothing and feasted.
He probably would've at least waited until Tommen was old enough to rule
the bastard cut open a pregnant cat and showed it to Robert, no wonder he felt the need to stop him and his crazy mother from rising to power
I mean, that would definitely be nice for him but we both know that by the time his children's character became clear, he was already a drunken wreck incapable of being anything other than the king. Robert talks a big game but in reality, he's followed a path set out for him by others for decades now, and has built up quite a lot of inertia. Kings do not abdicate in the Seven Kingdoms, historically.
6:30 Stop right there: Joffrey is the one who hired the catspaw because Robert was saying it would be more merciful for Bran to die, and thought "Putting a hit on the wounded son of my father's best friend will totally make Dad proud of me." That's because Joffrey is a psycho who doesn't understand how normal people think.
But Tommen has the ability to activate his mirror neurons, and so doesn't do this. Nor can I believe that single-digits Joffrey would think of murder for hire. So... no catspaw, Catelyn never goes to King's Landing, Tyrion was never abducted, Jaime never attacks Ned's men, Tywin doesn't start ravaging the Riverlands, Ned doesn't feel the need to send the girls back to Winterfell for safety... and thus Sansa doesn't make the remark that leads to Ned's moment of realization.
Now, Ned *might* reach this conclusion on his own... but not definitely. While Robert disliked Joffrey because of the cat incident and other reasons, Robert would probably be a lot more attached to the likeable Tommen, and view him as an heir to be proud of. And Ned isn't likely to think of Tommen as "nothing like that fat old king". I mean, most of Ned's own kids look more like Tully's than Starks... a fact any Tommen loyalists would be eager to throw in Ned's face if Ned did cite this as a reason to believe Cersei's children were bastards. Just sayin'.
So a couple of things that kind of stand out for me with this timeline:
So the thing with Ned's leg injury and him being held in the Black Cells is he was basically left untreated with his wounds and was only offered Milk of the Poppy to relive his his pain from his infection and fever. Given that his leg was never actually treated I'm thinking his leg would either need to be amputated or he probably dies of his infection during his trip to the wall.
The Tyrells probably don't declare for the Lannisters if the marriage pact between Tommen and Margaery doesn't happen. At that stage of the war, the Lannisters basically needed the Tyrell's to be their financial backers and the only way they were able to secure their support was by ensuring that Margaery would be the new Queen. So Tommen probably is strong armed into forsaking his engagement to Sansa.
And on that note, I don't think Tommen would be a beloved king. Even being kinder than Joffrey, he'd still have the issue of the riots within Kings Landing because the commoners were being starved because of the lack of provisions. It wasn't until the Tyrells "miraculously" started providing food for the people that the opinion shifted. So if anything, Stannis' heavy-handed punishment of the Tyrells would probably cause the most dissent amongst the people.
If Ned does manage to meet again with Robb and Cat, I think he convinced Catelyn to return to Winterfell, particularly if Robb declares for Stannis like Ned requests. And on that note, Theon definitely doesn't switch sides. Robb really isn't incentivized to try and recruit the Iron Islands since part of his idea was promising the Iron Islands would also get to become their own independent kingdom. They probably still raid the North, but they're never actually able to take Winterfell.
Other thing is kind of don't see Sansa or Arya surviving the sacking of Kings Landing. Cersei arranged it so that all the ladies would be murdered to prevent being SA'd should the forces break into the Castle Walls. If that happens, the Stark girls probably don't survive the night.
More like, to prevent them being lost to her side as hostages- she drunkenly revelled in telling Sansa & anyone within earshot what would happen to them, while she'd use her status as Queen to bargain for preferential treatment...
There's a lot of time between when Neds leg is injured and when he's in the black cells tbf
No one is talking about Ned being sent to the wall and getting to see Jon again. He would tell him his true parentage. And if we are talking about book Jon (who is alot more ambitious) this might change a couple things too.
If someone like Bloodraven was able to rise to Lord Commander as swiftly as he did, who's to say Ned couldn't? Stark reputations at the Watch being what they are.
That could change the complexion of things; LC Mormont would still be alive at this earlier point, as would Maester Aemon- with all that support, & potential revelations to come much earlier- Jon could evolve into an even stronger character, with a greater sense of self- perhaps even more focused & driven.
Maybe Maester Aemon could live long enough to meet his great-great neice...
Please make a “what if bran died after being pushed from the tower” I’d love a timeline without his ass 😭😂
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa?
What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?
What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion?
tower of joy theory would be inherently flawed because we simply don't know what happened, so would be theorising over speculation and would just be ridiculous fanfiction(ey)
@@georgeh5446
Welcome to TheEmpyreanSpeaks, you must be new here, nor haven’t watch Game Of Thrones.
@@georgeh5446doesn’t that happen with most videos of this nature?☠️i mean Jaime is by most accounts a top 3 fighter in all of asoiaf. So maybe ned dies? And without Jaime in the capital maybe Hightower won’t stop the mad king from “burning them all” and if ned/reed DO still win at the tower of joy it still changes things because now Tyrion is Tywin’s heir and also i believe none of the Lannister bastards would be born
Once again , 7 prayers to the butchers son , the prince that was promised 😂
What if Jamie leaves the kingsguard after kill Aerys and became Tywin heir
Love that idea, I hope it's his next project!!!
Jorah wouldn't have been able to stop the manticore for sure. Barristan was the one who stopped her from opening the ball if I remember the scene correctly. Jorah had no idea about the ball being a trap.
I feel from Stannis he would give Tommen a chance to bend the knee in person, like he did to Mance Rayder.
WHAT IF....
Myrcella was married to Theon or Robin? That they were the choices Tyrion gave Pycellle. 2 separate videos I guess one for each.
Margery Tyrell found a way to escape Cersei's Wildfire?
What if Euron killed Balon when Robert Baratheon was killed?
The world would be a much better place that’s for damn sure.
In this timeline, Joffrey still cuts open the pregnant cat, but this time he gets slapped upside the head by Robert, then Tommen, then Cersei 😂
What if Syrio have a real sword
22:25 aaaah, this scene again, remembering this misconception again.
At least you acknowledge that Jorah Mormont was there, but forget it was Barristan Selmy that distracted Jorah in the first place.
If I remember correctly though Barristan knocked the ball out of her hand. At least in the show. If she had opened the ball the manticore probably would have stung her straight away. So it's hard to say if Jorah would have been able to do anything if Barristan had not acted in the first place.
I'm not sure Joffrey would still send the catspaw if he wasn't the heir. He might not even be able to.
Eh i feel like the direwolf while yes a possible give away, would allow them to brute force a escape, PLUS Dogs including one looking like wolves are not uncommon so i don't think it would be a clear give away of who she is, finally westerosi (even the nobility) aren't know for being aware of other customs so beside maybe other starks, and maybe cersei, Joffery (post trident) and robert (Pre-Death) would even know what a direwolf is or what house use it to represent itself, most would think it either a big dog or a straight up wolf, i don't rember if show or books but i remember somebody or somebodies calling a direwolf a (normal) wolf, not knowing what a direwolf is. TLDR: i believe just like in canon Arya would most likely escape but i do concede it slightly more possible she would've been captured.
Also with Ned at the wall he would have had the opportunity to tell Jon of his true parentage.
Listening to your videos I realize Jamie is most likely the best swords man.
He’s like Kobe. He studied all the other greats.
Been waiting for someone to do this one!
Before watching, my first thought is that Joffrey would have killed Tommen for the throne first chance he got.
I would not be surprised that if Tommen knows about his true parentage and sees war with Stannis on the horizon he would abdicate and plead for mercy. Mostly because he would not want thousands to die for a lie. Cercei might be able to convince him to send one man to the wall but not thousands to the grave.
Stannis will kill Cercei and Jaime for the betrayal against Robert and I guess send Tommen and Joffrey to the Wall. Tyrion might be smart enough to flee in time to Essos. Mycella is a ? in this timeline.
Tywin will have nothing left to fight with and for. No power in Kings Landing, no heir. Nothing to ally with the Tyrells over.
Margery might end up with Robin Arryn as a politcal marriage between two powerful houses. She has no real path to the Queen position. Unless I do overlook a plausible way for her to get married to a Stark that isnt taken.
Even if Stannis fathers a boy, he would be too young to be a match with her.
If Sansa actually cared for Tommenn in this, I could see her denouncing Stannis for killing him and calling him an unworthy king.
Considering the Targaryens ruled for hundreds of years, the Baratheon rule lasted for technically one generation, I think a cool what if is if Robert found out his children were bastards born of incest, then Gendry was legitimised and heir to the thrown, however, no matter what, Daeneryes has dragons, so I have a feeling wether it’s through bastards or not, the Baratheons are doomed, and their reign will always be short lived, even if they married Daeneryes, she’d probably still want her children to have the name Targaryen
If Robert ever legitimize a bastard, it’s going to be *Edric Storm* as Robert’s only *recognize* son, from an noble Lady.
Gendry is a blacksmith, and not recognize by his kingly father.
Also Edric has noble teachings, and raised by a noble lady.
@@matheusdemello2323 thank you, I like that I on this page, I keep learning stuff about the works of westeros
@@matheusdemello2323that’s true, but Edric doesn’t exist on the show and this channel use show lore for what ifs
Since all indicate joffrey is who rodenered the attempt murder of bran, i think tommen being the heir would change that too
I’ve always been a firm believer in nurture over nature, Joffrey wasn’t born evil, they might have anti social personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder or conduct disorder because both of those are more for diagnosing adults but that doesn’t make someone a monster, Joffrey is a monster because they have an alcoholic absent father who ignores their existence with a narcissistic entitled mother who spoils them with everything, Tommen and Myrcella turn out well adjusted mostly because they get ignored, raised by other people while Cerise focused completely on Joffrey, if Tommen was the eldest then Cerise would take an active hand in raising them, meaning they’d most likely be a worse person, not the sweet boy who loves cats that we like
Tbh this has always been a topic I feel passionately about, I’m the person who feels the sadness GRRM intended when writing Joffrey’s death, a child brutally dying in their mothers arms, Joffrey was only 13 in the books, I don’t want to believe he was beyond help
Also I think it’s entirely possible that Little finger has Ned secretly killed if Ned isn’t executed like in cannon, it would causes more tension between house Stark and house Lannister while preventing any potential peace
But you can't deny that nature has an effect. Personality disorders are the result of a combination of of genetic susceptibility and upbringing. As the saying goes, the genes load the gun, but the environment pulls the trigger. We know Tommen feels empathy for others; Joffrey apparently never has.
It should be noted that Cersei herself is the product of both her genes and her environment. If she hadn't been raised by Tywin, she probably wouldn't have Narcissistic Personality Disorder. If she'd had different genes, she'd have still had trauma from being Tywin's daughter, but wouldn't have NPD. Case in point: Her twin Jaime had the exact same environment as Cersei, but though he's done a lot of horrible things, he's nowhere near as bad as she is. Just sayin', not hatin'.
What if Arya was the older sister instead of Sansa? or What if Robb was the son of Brandon Stark instead of Ned?
What if Sansa married Tommen instead of Tyrion?
In the books wasn’t there an incident where Jeoffry almost died of disease? I swear I recall that being a thing where he got horribly sick several years before the story began and almost didn’t make it. That would be a plausible scenario and would be one that would be more interesting to explore.
He wasn't Baratheon by blood, but the Lannister bastards have long been claimed by Robert. Robert the King himself did not dispute the legitimacy of his "children". I first read the books 10 years ago and just a few weeks I realized, Ned started a needless war.
What if Renly got Littlefinger on side and took the throne instead of leaving KL, regardless of Ned?
If Tommen was born first, he would become Joffrey.
Wait WOULD Bran have an assassination attempt? Isn’t it heavily implied that Joffrey sent the catapaw?
What about ’what if tommen executed cersei for blowing up the sept’ this video made me think of that, sounds fairly interesting considering that he would be a year or two older by the time the WW are a real threat. He may have searched for wisdom like Tywin taught him and become a Chad
i kind of feel that if Tommen was the elder and Heir no roll would have been reverced. i feel that tommen having all the influence of his mother before marcela and Joffry being born would have yealded the same results. Tommen would have been the one to have Joffreys mentality and cruilty, while there would have been a sweet Joffrey. or maybe she would have had 2 horrid boys . i still think Marcella being the only girl would have ALWAYS been the sweet middle child over looked untill she was sent away.
I imagine it would be similar to the dynamic between Viserys and Damon
What if Jaime didn't knock Bran off the tower? Maybe Bran is a bit faster and scurries away, or maybe Jaime has a moment of conscience and can't bring himself to push him, but either way, Bran climbs down safely. Would he share what he saw ir would he stay queit?
In the books, Bran was slipping and about to fall, when Jaime pulled him up... only to then push him off. What if Jaime never touched Bran, and gravity took its course?
Maybe Bran still suffers permanent paralysis. Or maybe he lands differently, and "only" breaks multiple bones, still leaving him crippled because Westerosi medicine sucks, but capable of siring offspring. Or maybe he lands on his head, suffering permanent brain damage.
Or maybe he simply dies, meaning no creepy three-eyed crow or underwhelming King Bran denouement. I could live with that.
please make a video about what if renly lived
Please do what if Valyria never fell
Ser Pounce would have solo’d the entire Baratheon fleet
WHAT IF QUEEN REGENT CERSEI'S GREAT SEPT WILDFIRE PLOT ACCIDENTALLY BLEW UP THE WHOLE CITY?!?!?
Well, that would take out Cersei, the High Sparrow, Varys, Qyburn, and the Mountain's undead corpse. Plus a lot of other people, both good and bad, smallfolk and noble. The pyromancer's guild is wiped out, and the secret of wildfire's manufacture is lost. The Iron Throne is melted to slag. Oh, and of course, Tommen and Margaery are dead.
IOW, there's suddenly a huge power vacuum in Westeros. But in the absence of a physical throne to capture, or center of government, I can see Westeros fracturing back into separate kingdoms again, just as it was before Aegon's Conquest. Perhaps it wouldn't have if the Realm hadn't spent a few years wracked with civil war, or if it was still summer, but I can see a lot of nobles reacting to the news by saying, "Ah, the hell with it. I've got to figure out how to feed my own people through the coming winter. We'll sort it out come spring."
If Tommen is king, and granted the only change he has was being a Mommy child, which he already is-but perhaps worst
Given that he is not cruel and actually a good king, and has great relationship with his uncle still-Tyrion, the battle of black water would be far more different than depicted and will not be the end of the Lannister
the reason why tyrion has to fight the battle himself and nearly lose is because of the lack of support from Joffrey, if any and from the small council.
but if Tommen and Tyrion relationship was better still, even with her mother influence and obvious dislike of his uncle, Tyrion would still be strategizing with his niece, with the latter giving him full support and actually make a different in the war.
So no, i dont think it will be the end of Tommen.
And to be fair, if the North stopped their march to support Stannis, Tywin will be left unoccupied and will 100% marched back to kingslanding with the Tyrell at his back. And that meant, Tyrion will be out of the picture and Tywin will be on the helm, which was a much tougher obstacle for Stannis to overcome, prolonging the fight even more.
And with sansa head over heel for Tommen, and the risk of her life being threatened by the Queen was obviously there, the North support will also waver. The political game couldnt be that straightforward with Tywin playing the game.
And if Robb continue his march and Tywin was occupied, Stannis will also have the same amount of soldier at the Black water battle, and against a much united uncle-niece duo, he stood even lesser chance than he has against an uninted uncle-niece combo.
What if Tommen followed Bran up the tower?
What if Cercei dies in childbirth? (Tommen or Joffery)
What if aerys died at the defiance at duskendale?
What if Daemon wanted the iron throne for himself and tried to overthrow his brother?
What if balerion the black dread didn't die and was still alive during viserys reign?
Joffrey the Just 😎
What if Jaime became the king when Ned arrived at Kings Landing and found him on the throne after they took down the Targaryens?
Tyrells are opportunists. If North would support Stannis I do not see them supporting Lannisters or even Renly. Loras might love him but he is not the one making decisions for family. I would rather see them support Stannis and trying to get rid of his wife somehow. Stannis would like to have male heir so if he would be free to remarry Margery is great choice. It is long game but much better option in this situation.
Problem there is there is no way at that point that Stannis would work with Tyrells. That's twice at that point they crossed him. I think it's more likely that if they don't join up with the Lannisters, they probably just do what the Vale did and hole back up in their castle.
@crimsonECH1DNA he might need them. Oldtown is in Reach and Stannis changing his religion to Lord of Light would be a big problem. If he would also change lords of the Reach people from the area might gather around the next most influential house in the area which is Hightower and they have even more ties with the Faith. Stannis believes there is the bigger war to fight so he would not want to waste time to fight Reach and the Faith. Also as far as I remember his wife is of house Florent which claims better rights to Highgarder. So decision to get rid of Tyrells will look bad from political stand point.
Hold on what if Bronn lost in the Eyrie trial for Tyrion
lol what if balerion was still alive in the dance of the dragons
make a what if aegon V dint die in summerhall( the incident dint spread) and the dragon eggs hatched whit no problems, lets say he hatched 3 dragon eggs, how would the story change because of this, whit aegon V dindt dying plus having dragons now, will aerys if he still got the throne end up mad in the same way?
No way the defiance of duskendale would happen with 3 dragons hanging around
@@The_Struggler_ yeah that wouldnt happen plus many things would change, aerys II whit 3 dragons would have crushed the rebellion, i mean i doubt he would be fighting most likely rhaegar would ride one of the dragons,(plus at the time the dragons would be fully grow the "tragedy" occured at 259 AC, and the rebellion started 282 Ac) so yeah rhaegar winning at the trident maybe, afther that maybe he will Maybe he'll strike his father and depose him idk thats what i think it would happen
What children of Aegon V were alive to bond to dragons, in addition to his grandchildren Aerys &/ or Rhaella...?
@@OcarinaSapphr- idk maybe rhaegar in the future he gets one, plus at the time aerys II would rule the dragons would be fully grown, and probably had hatched more dragons, and Aegon V rules longer in this scenario so maybe aerys doesn't get crazy, or not so much as in the original timeline
I really want to know instead of meleys vs vhagar and sunfyre it was vermithor fighting them both how would the fight play off
I need part 2
I'm not sure if Ned would hire Syrio in this timeline.
Why not?
I think that events at Trident affected this decision. Arya never had any sword training in Winterfell, I don't think moving to Kings Landing alone would be enough to change Ned's mind.
What if Shireen became heir to the iron throne?
Wait what if Ned left Kings-Landing in s1 e5
I believe it doesn't matter who's the 1st born there attitude towards it is the only thing that matters so I reckon tommen would probably with enough time be evil
What if Joffrey was Born an Imp? PLEASE. Just make something up make it funny or extremely sad but please.
You mean a dwarf? Well, it would probably make Tyrion and his nephew allies, as they share the same condition, and all the scorn and prejudice from others that goes with it. This Joffrey probably wouldn't have been as spoiled by Cersei, but she wouldn't have despised him like Tyrion, either. Part of her issue with Tyrion was that he "killed" her mother; the other part was that she believed he was the valonqar. No, she didn't like that he made the family "look bad" by being a dwarf, but that was only part of it.
But after giving birth to a dwarf herself, Cersei began to see Tyrion as a useful compatriot in her drive to support Joffrey's right of inheritance despite his disability. Their relationship would be extremely prickly at first, but after years of working in a common cause some real amiability might have emerged.
And Cersei would have encouraged Joffrey to view Tyrion as a mentor whose advice should be heeded. He may have still had sociopathic tendencies, but Tyrion would have instructed him in the practical benefits of cultivating relationships, rewarding loyalty, and at least pretending to give a damn about others feelings.
I think things would have ended up the same just with Joffery and Tommen being swapped as Cersei would put all her attention on Tommen till she had the next child which would allow her to fill Tommens head with the same assurances she did with Joffery and he would end up the same... Basically I blame Cersei for everything.
Joffrey's cruelty was more than just motherly dotting. There was something seriously wrong with him. I don't think Tommen's timid nature would be that altered by being Cersei's center of attention. Plus you could argue that Cersei dotted over Joffrey that much not only as firstborn but also because his cruelty made him the child most similar to her.
I disagree with most of this 🤷🏿♀️
stupse a direwolf wouldnt roam the red keep, do you think ?
That's so dangerous and so small. Same for the godswood. That would probably be kept in the Kingswood but it would be a nightmare to keep track of them.