What If Arthur Dayne Won? (Game Of Thrones)
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Arthur Dayne is often regarded as the greatest knight of his time before and since his untimely death at the Tower Of Joy. But what if on that faithful day it was the sword of the morning who prevailed and not the lord of winter?
#asoiaf #whatif #gameofthrones - Розваги
What if Viserys stayed in Pentos when Daenerys wed Drogo?
At some point, the attempt on Daenerys would prompt Drogo to repay Viserys.
Sail to Westeros and take the throne
Whenever someone mentions Viserys, I think of the one in HOTD.
The beginning of Daenerys' storyline will be the same. Later, when news of her and her dragons spread around, Viserys might come and join them in the Slaver's Bay (with Barristan and Strong Belwas, if we are going by the books). Viserys would claim a dragon, but would still grow very jealous of Daenerys due to her powers and how the Dothraki and the Unsullied follow her, not him, leading to conflict and probably ending up in his death.
Alternatively, before such a thing can happen, Viserys might get impatient with Daenerys' slave freeing mission and might just take his dragon to conquer Westeros by himself, coming there in about season 4 or 5, right at the end of The War of the Five Kings
@@bakthihapuarachchi3447 Yes, I agree. If Viserys stays in Pentos, and if Robert still has Varys send Assassins when Jorah informs them that Daenerys is pregnant, then likely every thing else happens, with Drogo dead and the Dragons hatched. Hopefully it would be after She got the unsullied and captured Yunkai that Viserys would show up and want to to control her and her dragons. She wouldn't allow that. If he has any sense then he will realize that he needs to hook his wagon to her star. Daenerys didn't really see Viserys for what he was until they were on the trip with the Dothraki. She was raised believing that she and Viserys would marry someday. I don't think that will happen. But if Daenerys cannot have children and she wants the Targaryen line to go on then she is going to need Viserys to get her some nephews and nieces. (Since she doesn't know about Jon).
Honestly, I just never like the idea of Jon's real name being Aegon since that was his older half brother's name & we have no precedence for that scenario occuring in recorded Targaryen history.
My personal preference is Aemon but in this hypothetical I think Jon being named Rhaegar also makes sense since that could've been Lyanna's dying wish.
The dynamic between Jon*, Viserys, Daenerys in Essos would be very interesting especially with Arthur Dayne & Willem Darry as caretakers. It only gets more interesting if & when they run into Young Griff (Blackfyre or not) & Jon Connington
We also don't have precedence for House Targaryen being both deposed and most of the family, including the children, slaughtered. It's pretty clear Lyanna named him Aegon to honor his murdered brother and Rhaegar, seeing as the KG had clearly heard about what happened at KL by the time Ned got there.
Me: (reads title)
Also me: “are the Targaryens so back?”
I think the play for the Targaryens here is to wed Jon to Arianne, Viserys to Margery, and then Danny to Rob once they discover that Marcella is a bastard. Danny marring Rob is pretty viable since there’s a good chance that Benign knows about Lyanna and Rhaegar’s relationship. But I wonder would Robert become a fat drunk in this timeline? Before Danny and Viserys weren’t a problem since they were just two kids on their own. Now they’re together with Jon who Robert would probably hate more than anyone with Ser Arthur Dayne and some of their other allies raising them to reclaim their throne. They’re a more serious and hateful foe for Robert so he might remain combat ready to prepare for them. Also I desperately want the dragons to hatch since we finally have 3 riders
Given that Margaery Tyrell wants to be queen of Westeros, I would swap the marriages of Jon and Viserys. Other than that, great analysis.
@@qui-gonzaluke8024 Actually that makes more sense since Margery wants to be queen and Arianne wants to rule Dorne and with the Dornish tolerance of bastards they probably wouldn’t have any issues with Jon making a marriage with Arianne less important
Bro ur vision in these what ifs are incredible 😮 thanks for this great stuff dude... And could do a what if selmy lived whenever u can 😅
Interesting thing is that stannis knew able the lanister kids before ned did. So once robert dies stannis tells the relam the truth which could give the targareny the chance to marry danny to the starks. Now they would have the north and dorne with them which probably means the tully join in too. Then, a marriage alliance of versyen with the reach or the vale would give jon control of 4 of the 7 kingdoms.
Don't see where Stanis would benefit from Targaryens coming back after Robert's death
@1rjona he doesn't but that wouldn't stop the targaryens from coming
What If Catlyn didn’t hate Jon
Suspicion would arise 🤔
@@Powerviolenc3 yeah
Probably only happens if Ned tells her the truth and that could breed suspicion about his origin. A noble man’s wife is supposed to be a bit vindictive towards a bastard but if she’s fine with him or even loving then people may begin suspecting that he’s not truly a bastard. Regardless, John probably grows up much better and probably never leaves to the nights watch since he never feels the hostility that drives him away from winterfell. He may even go south or try to serve Ned, only to discover his origins at some point during his service as part of Ned’s household guard.
@@motivationallizard6644 ok ok
16:22 the dragons hatch because of prophecy.
They needed dragons to fight the long night
Very Good Analysis Here. ❤
Viserys was named Heir after Rhaegar’s death. Jon/Aegon wouldn’t be over him in this situation.
Even if that weren't the case, Viserys is still the closest male descendant of Aerys II & that's got to count to some extent.
Just look at Aegon V being chosen to succeed his father despite his older brother's son Maegor, being alive but also an infant which actually parallels nicely with the current hypothetical.
Even the Great Council of 101 AC chose Viserys I over Laenor despite Laenor being a male descendant of Aemon, eldest son of Jaehaerys I. This scenario does have a slight asterisk since Laenor's connection to the Targaryen family is through his mother instead of his father.
Regardless, I still see Aegon V, Viserys I & Viserys III* as the rightful heirs in their respective successions.
@@browniebear I generally agree. Rheagar died before Aerys. Rheagars children were never declared Heir. If Aerys had died first then Rheagar would have made his claim for the throne and installed his own Heir. But in Canon Rheagar died so Aerys had to declare a new heir, that was his son Viserys. So according to all laws Viserys would be the “Rightful heir”.
@@dustinvaughn8871 I think the king naming an heir is a formality for the most part. Viserys is the rightful heir even if Aerys didn't "name" Viserys. Laws stand the test of time & cultivate more stability than feeble words of one king or another.
Ultimately, Rhaegar himself did not ascend the throne so he therefore did not have the kingship to pass on to his own son.
@@browniebear I don’t think it’s a mere formality. The council of 101 was a huge event that required the entire Realm to get together that’s entire purpose was to decide who Jaehaerys would name as his heir. The ramifications of that event are felt all the way up to the main story 200 years later. Even in the time right before the Dance the fact that Viserys hasn’t named an heir is a huge issue that bothers Otto enough that he has Viserys’ name his daughter so that Daemon doesn’t inherit the throne.
@@dustinvaughn8871 The Great Council of 101 determined who *would be* Jaehaerys's heir not *who Jaehaerys would name* his heir. The devil is in the details. Jaehaerys naming Viserys as Prince of Dragonstone was indeed a formality since the votes of lords spoke for themselves.
Viserys's legal heir before naming Rhaenyra & disinheriting Daemon was Daemon. There was only a "crisis" because Otto deemed it since he didn't want Daemon to become king. Otto may have had a good reason but the succession is not based on merit. Under Andal law, Rhaenyra would be the legal heir but the Iron Throne does not specifically follow Andal law. Later on, when Aegon II & his brothers are born they become frontrunners in the line of succession even though Viserys "named" Rhaenyra because the Great Council & centuries of Valyrian, Andal, First Men law cultivate more stability than the words of one feeble king. Westeros is not an absolute monarchy.
The Great Council determined that the throne should pass to trueborn males (Viserys, son of Baelon) before passing to/through a trueborn female (Laenor, son of Rhaenys). That's the priority law that should be upheld for the Iron Throne succession. Even Viserys II used it to justify his ascension over his niece Daena the Defiant which is similar to what Jaehaerys I did to his niece Aerea before Great Council even occured.
What if Peter won the duel for Cats hand ? (Because of Brandon tripping over a Rock or sth like that)
Regarding the dragons it's still likely they would've gotten and hatched them. Faegon would likely never happen. Far as hatching the eggs Dany is a dreamer also a Targaryen woman. They tend to have the strongest ties to dragons and hatching. Jon would still be a warg so would likely have a moment of sensing the dragons like he did the wolf pups. Viserys being not crazy would likely treat the eggs with pride and obsession meaning they proba be kept in the right conditions. All this combine with the fact Jon is def Azor Ahai and 3 targs means 3 heads = new dragons for the new conquest.
@@AssasiCraftYogUscus the reason the eggs probably wouldn’t hatch is because if there was no witch, frogs, and pyre there would be no evil fire magic that hatched the dragons.
@@dustinvaughn8871 Not the only way to hatch eggs
@@AssasiCraftYogUscus Yeah. But these eggs were basically fossilized and turned to stone. If all it took was some heat Illyrio would have lit them on fire as soon as he got them. They were basically considered to be jewelry at the point they were gifted to Dany.
Magic brought the eggs back from the dead.
@@dustinvaughn8871 I provided several magic based options. My main point though is that dragons were always going to return due to their necessity in prophecy so the how isn't bound to one thing.
This was a fun one ❤
What if Jon Snow looked exactly like Rhaegar?
Nothing changes ….
Rhaegar is still dead, Kings Landing is still sacked and the Targaryen Dynasty is over, Lyanna still dies in childbirth, Lord Commander Gerald Hightower and Ser Oswell Whent still die at The Tower of Joy
The only thing that changes is Ned dies and leaves behind Catelyn with baby Robb. No other Stark heirs. Which means Benjen likely takes Ned’s place as Lord of Winterfell until Robb comes of age. Probably marries Catelyn who is a curse on House Stark given that both Brandon and Ned died after being tied to her through marriage pacts.
The 7 Kingdoms more than likely go on as written. Unless Bobby B was foolish enough to take on Ser Arthur Dayne in a 1v1 contest should Dayne seek to avenge Rhaegar
And Ashara Dayne is still alive.
If Arthur Dayne had won, he also would have beheaded Jaime Lannister for treason.
Another change is that the Ironborn would probably have gained more support, as Ned and Bobby's friendship isn't there anymore, especially the Westerlands would have joined after Arthur killed Jaime and Dorne might have joined too.
@@nickdentoom1173how would Arthur kill Jaime he's in kingslanding
Rober would win
@@db4517 don’t be so sure of that …. Bobby B may have beaten Rhaegar, but he took many wounds in doing so and was very close to dying from that fight.
Rhaegar’s teacher and closest friend was Sir Arthur Dayne. My money would be on Dayne in a 1v1 with Robert Baratheon
always love your vids, my only minor complaint is Rhaegar having 2 sons named Aegon is stupid I know they did it in the show but I think most people can agree its dumb
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa?
What if Lyanna Stark lived?
What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?
Jon Connington would also rally his banners behind Jon's claim since Arthur is living proof that Jon is the rightful king. And should Griff be legitimate then that only extends the further power and influence of the Targaryens. Though he is likely a Blackfyre.
What if the mad king never wants mad
What if Laenor didn't leave following the Driftmark episode and got Rhaenyra pregnant during the following timeskip (he had renewed dedication to being a husband to Rhaenyra)?
He couldn't get hard at all😂
Can you do a video if Stannis had won the Battle of Blackwater?
What if blood and cheese actually killed Aemond instead of Jaehaerys.
What if Arthur daen dis armed Ned but not kill him knowing that Ned was only trying to save sister. And both ned and Arthur daen are both honor base characters. I think Ned would help Arthur daen know that he was the prospector to his sister once he was told what truly happened. Sister would still die but son would have two prospector. Ned would probably tell Arthur Dean about the Targaryens siblings escaping and Arthur would want to go protect them too. But I think Ned would talk him in to leaving Jon with him for reasons like he would have to travel fast and a lot and having new born would lead to openings during fights,and with dark hair and being partly stark Ned could hide him in plain sight, plus with the siblings all ready on the run they need him more. Author would possibly exknowege this and take Ned up knowing it is the plan with high possibility to work. Author would rush to help Dany and brother and be there protector knowing they would be the most in danger. Ned would return to North with Jon.
Some stuff would change and some stuff would remain the same the siblings would have the most change though. And once grow Author Dean may talk Dany to marry drago more willingly because knowing that the time was coming from them to taking back throne may be appon them and drago could help them a cheave this and bother having Author to train would up knowledge in both intelligence and skill with sword so he would be a better brother to his sister. Possibly big change is if drago dies and Dany becoming child less. Remember drago son was claimed to mount the world. And if that changes he could have been dragon rider.
Later the dragon eggs arrive (call it destiny) comet passes and they are hatched brother and sister came one dragon then wonders who can ride the third dragon. This is where Author Dean tells them about Jon and how he is a Targaryen too.
And if Jon story's stays mostly the same he goes to wall where he meets the mistor there and how he is a Targaryen. Depending if Ned tells Jon of his parenting or if like show keeps it to himself may change. It would also be on what Ned and Author agree to do Later in life to let them know or not and if to take kingdom back or not. Ned would be more turn knowing Jon is rightful king but that his best friend is king.
But if Jon even knows about true parents and Ned tells him to keep it a secret he still may tell the mistor at wall. He would later find out about the white walkers and the dead and possibly most of the same stuff will happen the same,(possibly Ned death or survival) with Ned having knowledge of true king still alive. And possibly of Robert’s children being born of insest he may go to installing true king in place.(After Robert death, Ned may call on Author Dean.) Witch still could lead to him still being executed. Leading so some of rest staying the same.
War of the 5 kings and red wedding, ect.
but then Jon goes and meets Author and the siblings and army on dragon stone with knowledge of dragon glass and if Jon knowing parents or not could be told to him after meeting them or after meeting the dragons and they exknowege Jon as Targaryen. When they allow him to touch them. And Jon wandering why. Then with that u get the prince who was promised and the three heads of the dragon because Jon would claim the third dragon. And if Jon trains with Author for a bet and take lead of army and bring them to the north some of the ret could change dramatically or stay closely the same Jon is the king of the north and once he returns he could anonce he is of stark and Targaryen blood and true king and with 3 Targaryen and 3 dragon and with Author Dean backing up story I downt any one would deny this. In which is if they try to take kingdom still by force or try to do counsel with cerci like in show. Probable with both though cerci counsel in volved going and get one of the dead in which one dragon died but that that could be different do to there being riders on all the dragons or different plan all together with skilled fighters and tactics of followers.
Other choice is they attack kings landing with 3 dragons cerci has no choice but to surrender. Because if they attack kings landing without destroying it this would before iron fleet and golden companie arrived so no be heading of friend at gate and Dany is calm and steady. And without hostage or martor the city survives. If cerci stays and is captured or if she runs away using tunnels is possible. Then with Jon as king full kingdom is mobiles to fight the dead. And if Jon keeps or relinquish throne may do to change to the story.
And the story can go on. But I do think Author would have killed Ned once disarmed. Because ned was honor bond to save sister and Author dean was honored bond to protect her not to kill an unarmed man. And how the story changed could have been a good story.
What if dany's mother (forgot her name) lived giving birth on dragonstone and fled with her children to essos?
Wasn't Jon Arryn told about Jamie and Cersei by Stannis? If so, it would only be a matter of time before it got to Robert or at least Rennly. After all, if Stannis can figure it out I'm damn sure Varys and Little Finger would figure it out immediately. They're both the 2 main conspirators in trying to bring down the current regime too so they'd definitely use it to put Robert at odds with the Lannisters.
Meanwhile the line of 3 eyed ravens is broken as well as Starks at the wall and the Others take over.
I disagree about how Cersei would feel about a marriage pact for Rob and Myrcella. The crap with the Martells is exactly why she was against the marriage. Sure, she wouldnt want to say goodbye so early, considering Myrcella was pretty young, and sure...she was an id10t a lot of times, but she was smart enough to recognize the strategic advantages of having her bastard daughter married off to the warden of the north. This effectively puts Myrcella's blood, and by extension Lannister blood, in the wide north, in a place of power. Especially if Rob died young enough to have heirs, but not so young Myrcella hasnt established her presence. Like in the case of Lysa, except age gap not so large lol. Hope that makes sense.
I don't imagine Jon/Aegon would have the best reaction to finding out his mother died because of Rhaegar and Arthur killing his uncle if he ever found out.
Keep up the great work with these what ifs. I find the ASOIAF fandom overall terrible and hesitant with these compared to fans of other things. Not sure why, maybe it's because the books aren't finished but I love that you're actually diving straight into it and creating a story around a change
I doubt that with all that was going on Ser Arthur wouldve killed Ned...
1-The Rebellion was all but won by Robert at that point
2- Its obvious that Rhaegar instructed them to stay and protect both Lyanna and Jon/(insert real name here)
3- He probably tells Stark the truth of Rhaegar and Lyanna once its just the 2 of them, should no other Kingsguard survives or not.
If rhegar never kidnapped lyanna why wouldn't they let ned get to his SISTER it never made sense to me its not like he would hurt her or a kid she has because the starks are very protective of there own kin more so than anyone else
King's Guard needs to follow orders from the King/Prince. Its possible Oswell Whent and Gerold Hightower didn't know Rhaegar didn't kidnap Lyanna either, but its possible Arthur Dayne did (As he was a personal friend to Rhaegar). Even then, Arthur needs to fight instead of letting them through, since if one of the other Kings Guard would have survived next to Arthur, Arthur would be ousted from the King's Guard for being an Oathbreaker.
@@nickdentoom1173 its still a dumb thing for me ashara dayne made more sense
what if robbert was at the tower of joy with ned
What if Rhaenyra sent a dragon seed to aid Rhaenys against Vhagar?
What if Ned cooperated with Littlefinger and Renly to overthrow Cersei
If Young Griff shows up in time with Golden Company. Dany will be married to him and new alliances formed. After the death of Robert during the time of Joffrey's misrule they will attack without dragons.
When part 2 of what if Deamon and Rhea had a son.
When part 2 of what if Deamon and Mysaria had a son.
Also here some what if ideas.
What if Viserys and Deamon brother Aegon lived.
What if Balerion was still alive in house of the dragon.
What if Rhaena claimed the Cannibal after the whole driftmark thing.
What if Viserys didn't marry Alicent but kept her as a paramour?
these get me hype as if there making a real show about this
What if Catelyn was baren ?
What if lyanna stark survived
What if Lyanna survived childbirth?
What if the Lannisters were a normal loving functional family?
What if that boar had killed rhaneyra in kingswood
Part 2 Viserys Invades Westeros landing in dorne where they gather an army
Dude , just lower the usage of perhaps, chose a tineline and stick with it
What if Jon snow was Robert’s son
My take would be aegon goes with the Martell viserys and Danny marry and are gifted the three eggs and just like the show Jeffery resigns barriston and shortly after would be Danny still encounters the witch this times it’s while traveling from Essos back to dorne for the wedding for aegon so all three plus Dayne and barriston encounter the Dothraki raiding the village and Danny wanting to save the witch dayne or barriston doesn’t matter dies fighting and Danny tries to ask the witch for help like drogo backfiring like the show burns her and dayne/barriston and the eggs hatch and dragoon would be named different but go to aegon viserion would go to viseries and Rhaegal also named different would go to Danny and then barriston/dayne would take them to dorne in more of haste now and raise the dragons there before all three and the dornish alliance take back the crown
Joffery is most likely called Eddard. Yuck.
What if Daenerys was born male?
What if daemon and caraxes lived
What if Stannis succeeded in seizing the Iron Throne?