So About Self Inserts
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Sprites by Skill:Draw
Since Velma is often accused of being a self insert of Mindy Kaling, I thought I would take a look at the trope itself and compare it to shows that I think handled the trope well.
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"Rich people bad!" Says multimillionaire mindy who owns frank sinatras old house priced at about 10 million. So relatable, very hip.
It's like the economical equivalent of "Howdy do, fellow kids!"
The fact that Mindy owns Frank Sinatra’s old house is deeply upsetting
"I'm oppressed!" says the beneficiary of inherited wealth and nepotism, who has a seven figure income, a premier education, a nine figure net worth, a position of power, and is subject of no fewer than four government protected categories.
Complaining about capitalism while participating in a capitalist society.
‘MURICA.
Oh well, virtues won't signal themselves will they? These people know that checking their privelege requires time and pandering takes almost none of it, it's an easy game and hypocrites always win.
“I relate so much to Velma.”
**Makes her think, speak, and behave nothing like Velma**
Narcissism.
I still question why they decided to make her gross lol eating from the trash and having very slobby and disgusting moments.... is it supposed to be funny?
Official she is a Bozo
"I can relate to Velma" said a person who "likes to make men uncomfortable"
@@maenad1231 all of Velma's original personality are gone, and replaced with new toxic personality traits.
How to get away with a self insert:
1. Be likeable
2. Make it make sense
Best self-insert: someone you don't expect to be an actual self-insert.
You forgot number 3.
3. Make it well written.
And don't erase an existing character.
Make it a straight white male cause no one would give a fuck
3. Don't be the main/titular character. Essentially, don't be the center of the universe of the show/book/etc.
They destroyed the entire gang, dude, fred was my favourite, the leader that was kind and that loved misteries and they turned him into a dumbass...
fred was always one of my favorites. i remember when i used to watch mystery incorporated, i always enjoyed his skills in trap-making. he wasnt a supergenius, but he sure as hell could make a successful plan and design awesome ass traps
I loved that Fred used to had this slightly cocky personality even back then, but it wasn’t that exagerated and the show made sure to prove him wrong when needed. You know, balance.
Shaggy was the go-to lovable one for millions…and they turned him into a literal simp who barely mentioned food.
I'm used to Fred being a bit of a dumbass, but in more of a "every plan involves a trap, Daphne is such a great friend, oh look at that thing over there" way.
I mean, he was never all that bright unless it involved traps
If someone isn't a likable person, then their self insert character also won't be likable.
Lolololololololol
A good self-insert requires having enough self-awareness to let yourself be flawed and admit you still need to develop
Sadly a rarity as the media and society is oddly pushing for a "You're awesome and you don't need to improve yourself." Which kinda encourages narcissism.
A good example would be Charlie Brown
Harima Kenji
SERIOUSLY,
Amen to that.
It's not truly a self-insert until Velma sexually harasses an employee, and then laughs it off on a late-night talk show.
She did what now-
That honestly doesn't surprise me.
WHAT
@@Mushd3s i forgot what talk show but basically she said she kissed someone on set when it wasnt in the script simply because he was attractive, some of the crew told her she can be sued for that and she replied "tell anyone and you're fired" to them, all of this was said proudly by her on said talk show
This is how i find out?
she loved Velma so much that she essentially deleted everything Velma was except her name and created a brand new character to slap the name on.
Yeah, the funny thing was Velma was very kind. Of the group, she was second person Scooby was attached to. She was also extremely unbiased. If there was someone she liked that she knew was guilty, she still went through with it.
Mindy Kaling is just a spoiled brat who had everything handed to her on a silver platter because she was born one of the rich guys that made us miserable all our lives. She's the Indian version of Chloe Bourgeois!!! She doesn't know what it's like to suffer because she made us suffer instead by being herself.
She didn't understand Velma. She claimed that she loved the character, but she was unable to understand why Velma was a good character. She thought by changing her race, it would make her more relatable to her. That's when you realize she sees people through race-glasses. Fred was a really likeable guy, friendly, leader, and he's basically a "golden retriever" type character in the original shows. But because Mindy sees Fred is WHITE, that means he has to be stupid, rich, and privileged. And as much as they tried to make Fred unlikeable, he's still the best character in Velma.
That's why I call it either, "Scooby Doo in Name Only," or, "Mindy's Mysteries." Be a cold day in hell before I recognize it as a part of the franchise.
Riding existing coat-tails.
That's all they can do anymore.
“the characters aren’t defined by their races” yeah but they ARE defined by their personalities which you ALSO COMPLETELY changed
And the fact she's such a hypocrite too. Look what that thing did to my boy Fred!
Also she went and made them completely defined by their *new* races.
this goes beyond character assassination. this is character "killing and skinning them so you can wear them like a suit and pretend to be them"
The Erebus approach from Warhammer 40k thrn
fnaf five sister location. tfp silas (well, he didnt pretend to be Breakdown, he just used his corpse)
It's giving The Stranger. I think the creators must have Nikola Orsiniv on speed dial
Except it looks nothing like the original character, so maybe just character assassination paired with identity theft.
this is what cyn did to tessa
It baffles me that they would make their self inserts so unlikable. Do they hate themselves that much.
It's probably to vent their frustration or what happened to them in their lives
They're inserting themselves clearly the problem is them not being likable people
Thing is Mindi probably sees what everyone else thinks is bad as a good thing.
Twisted morals is the answer.
It's probably because that's how they actually are and have main character syndrome thinking people will like them in larger media space.
Ben Bocquelet, creator of The Amazing World of Gumball, used Gumball as a self-insert in a clever way. Basically, Gumball embodies everything Ben was as a child that he later became embarrassed of. As a child, Ben was a hyper-active and chaotic motor-mouth and Gumball is all that times a million.
Even then, he still had plenty of redeeming attributes that puts Gu.ball above most other self inserts.
I never know gumball was a self insert but nice.
Gumball seems like a good self insert, unlike Velma.
1. Gumball’s honestly pretty likable.
2. Based on your description, Bocquelet has more self awareness in a single eyelash than Mindy Kaling does entirely.
3. Gumball, the show, is really good. The comedy lands. The large cast of characters are interesting. And the show has genuine moments of tenderness that balances with the humor.
...Gumball's a self-insert? interesting...and pretty well done too. :)
@@Waaagh40KRed imo if Gumball ever exist irl, he's in no way likeable 😂 he so lazy to even get up from his chair to save his family, but that's really what makes him lovable. he's the ultimate comedy relief character. his resolves to his stupid-ass actions is honestly somewhat admirable XD
I love that none of the characters can explain WHY they love Velma so much.
Kindness? No. Velma's as mean as a wasp
Intellect? No. She got Norville's dad and Fred into trouble because she accused them of a crime they didn't commit. A smart person would've had real evidence and a more convincing argument than just "he's white"
Likes and interests? No. I don't think Velma at any point talks about the things she enjoys Movies, games, books, she talks about these things in her "meta" humor but she doesn't seem to enjoy them.
Beauty? No. The show reminds us over and over she doesn't have any good looks going for her
What is there for anyone to fall in love with?
Honestly she's more like a villain, and not even an endearing or appealing one like Dr. Robotnik.
@beauwalker9820 what's funny is that Velma and Daphne are both in Villainwiki.
Cares about others? She does not care anybody but herself and her interests.
Selfless? What did I just say?
She's funny? She's as funny as a brick wall.
She solved the murder case of the "Hot" Girls and Middle Ages Men. She didn't do anything, the "clues" that she got were handed to her by accident or on purpose. Daphne, Norville, and Fred did all the investigating.
Now, now, no need to insult wasps so. At least they build well structured nests and take care of their hive.😉
@@estebangutierrez160 good thats where they belong
Bad self insert, Velma: Basically making a revenge fantasy on people you hated in high school and showing your trueself being an annoying person
Good self insert, Fear and loathing, the rum diary: Both stories based on Hunter's own life experiences fear and loathing being about 60% to 70% what actually happened and the rum diary his experiences in puerto rico in the 50s
I think the funniest situation to me will always be the "No one liked me at school, because I was different", and it turns out that person was the actual annoying one. It happened to a classmate in highschool. The teacher asked us to befriend her and the whole class was just like: I mean, if she stops being posh and having an attitude and thinking she's better than everyone, maaaaybe then she'll get an opportunity. Spoiler. She never stopped. She only forced herself into the groups she wanted. Fake as hell. Constantly bashing others (including me) and then buttering us up whenever she wanted something.
Hey so I worked on Velma seasons 1 and 2, and let me tell you the review meetings we had were super uncomfortable because they felt like one big therapy session. I was prod crew, so I never directly spoke to Mindy, and I only spoke to Charlie when necessary since they both were "big wigs" and lil ol' APMs like me are just there to keep the schedule straight and take notes, but holy cow I feel like I know far more about both of them and their deep internal issues than I should. The self-insert behavior didn't just go for character writing, either. Most of the jokes and episode notes were very clearly, painfully rooted in their daddy issues. And somehow they didn't seem to notice that they were laying bare all of their emotional dirty laundry. Thankfully I could have my camera turned off for all of those meetings because keeping a poker face was so hard.
This absolutely makes sense to me. You have my sympathy for having to deal with that. Your description of 'emotional dirty laundry' is fitting indeed.
Sucks that talented people like you have to work with these kinds of people. I hope that one day you will be able to make your own series.
For gravity falls, Wendy was based on the traits writers found cool in people. Wendy was a cool character, better written than most modern female characters. Maybe writers need to hang around people outside their personal echo chambers.
And Wendy ends up rejecting Dipper, which is a pretty bold thing to happen to a self-insert nowadays.
@@HimekoIzayoiI’m pretty sure if it wasn’t for the age difference, she wouldn’t have.
Wendy was cool because she was cool towards everyone and tried to be good to them, even while she was herself a menace
Oof as one of the rare people who hate Wendy I am worried for what kind of people irl they admire. She shoplifts, she has no responsibility, she gets jealous and angry if her friends "DARES" dating her ex, she ghosts one guy she is too lazy to break up with, she and her friend group have a "friend" they all love to bully and take advantage of and he is too submissive and scared to lose them he ever does anything about it, and worse in that episode wherz Mabel is the new boss she abuses her kindness and gaslights her like "I thought you were cool :(" whenever she wants her to do her job, not break stuff, not have her messy brainless loud friends around when there are customers and would have let her deal with all the cleaning with a shitty excuse if Mabel didn't have enough and demand that she does it. Fuck her
So do CEOs
Possible solution: Insert yourself as the villain.
it would make for a really hated villain
That sounds like it could be really fun. You could be your most exaggerated, ridiculous version of yourself while still working for the story.
@@crisananca313 Which works, doesn't it? The Hero defeating the villain would be the equivalent of watching Velma get hit by a car.
Or as a support character. Example: Book Hermione.
SKIP WOKE VELMA AND STARFIRE DAUGHTER.
The biggest crime of Velma is removing Scooby. He’s the name of the franchise : you remove him, you remove its soul. Simple as that.
Im pretty sure the reason they didnt add scooby was because they didnt own the rights to use him.
I havent really been keeping up with stuff like this. Took a small look at velma. What the fuck is this piece of shit? Its less of a childrens show, its more of wanting to put adult "ideas" into children, and what is the connection of the scooby doo name and cast to the show? Its not funny, its not worth watching, and its bland
@@1828kwell they shouldn't own the Rights to the character "Velma " too because of what you said about Scooby Doo...
@@freakyninja3545i mean you can own rights to one thing but not another.. if you own a house that doesn’t mean you own your neighbour’s house too lol
@@xyippee well they have been getting away with that lately. And it won't matter this show will not last long and it better not.... complete joke.
If you can't tell it's a self-insert, you're probably doing it right.
There was a self insert in FPE aka Oliver. I didn't even know it was a self-insert 😭
I feel like what a lot of people don't understand is that a self-insert is still a character inside a story. Self-insert or not, a story still hinges upon basic storywriting rule. There needs to be basic foundations like defining character traits (both positive and negative), struggles they must overcome, climax where the struggles pay off, and conclusions that ends in character growth and plot advancement. Self-inserting yourself is part of the premise, not the plot, and the plot itself must be able to stand up on its own merit.
well said
Ever notice just about all of these self insert stories take place in high school. Seems they're trying to retroactively correct their experiences.
and actively ruin it for everyone else!
Ironically, regular show and close enough aren't, or Gravity Falls goes back to middle school and actually made it enjoyable.
It’s always a sad thing when people peak in high school
I noticed years ago that every heroine of a young adult novel looked suspiciously like her author. Some egregious examples being Shadow and Bone, Throne of Glass, and Keeper of the Lost Cities. I guess the insecure women writing that stuff now just take over other people's creative property and impose their own narcissism and neuroticism onto those.
@@pugasaurusrex8253seems less of a case of peaked in high school and more of resentful of their experiences in high school, which many people I’m sure can relate to (heavily bullied kids in high school), the main issue is
1. Most people live past it for the most part and
2. These types of self-insert stories of the Velma variety tend to be soaked in an aura of mean-spiritedness and petty revenge as well as “rebalancing the scales” in a way, which for some people (such as seems to be the case with Mindy herself, which is a bit weird given her upbringing, but I suppose anybody can become a target), might like such a thing for themselves. yet those sorts of things tend to only really be enjoyable to such people when they’re the ones getting themselves inserted to have it. Pretty much everybody else on the outside looking in and reading/watchihg/etc, both of the comparatively “normal”/more well adjusted people and even the types of people who would do the same thing if they could tend to see such works as awful as they are, from “velma”, to “I am not starfire”, etc:
I’ll never forget that Dante’s Inferno is a self-insert fan fiction which changed the image of an entire major religion.
😂
I don't think it really did anything about the "image" about catholicism. it was more or less a political hit peice written like a greek odyssey
Only ‘modern’ self-inserts are bad, otherwise you tear down all the literature ‘modern’ free thinkers worship.
What most of this comment section probably will argue
@@DragonMaiden77 Tell us more about how the other femcels love your badly-written slash fic featuring your thinly-disguised self-insert, therefore every argument against self-inserts is wrong.
I... the music brainrot is real. I saw that, and IMMEDIATELY thought of "Charlie's Inferno."
"There are Indian nerds."
No shit, Sherlock? "Nerd" is basically the only character archetype that Indian characters are given in media!
Edit: Let me rephrase that. It is the *most* *common* character archetype for Indian characters.
shes creating more stereotypical indian characters! really giving some much needed representation.
Puh-lease.
She's the type to defend Apu getting written off because "he was a product of the whitey slaver".
except for dear sweet apu
@@a-line88889 You're right. He is an exception.
@@laurenbonner2393 Apu? Didn't they get rid of him because they made up some bogus thing about him being, 'offensive?'
Mindys case really just sounds like an expensive fanfic
Except that implies she's a fan
i like your profile pic. who is that
@@gfran7112 🐀
“Characters shouldn’t be defined by their skin color!”
“Why isn’t the smart character indian?”
Self inserts can work only if they're likable and the author has self awareness. Use them to make the story work
Yeah like Luz and them
@@khaliyahjefferson832 I don't know who Luz is but I'll agree with you
how abt huey from boondocks
@@papahudz69 Luz is from the animated show called The Owl House, her name is Luz Noceda. Look it up & watch it, it's pretty good
I don't even think they have to be likeable, just entertaining and actually fit the story without warping it around them. Provided you meant "likeable as a character" rather than "likeable as fictional person". Regardless, otherwise agreed.
The Toby Fox annoying dog is probably the best self insert.
This ✨
don't forget Animdude in Fnaf world
And temmie
i think its because A) the Annoying Dog is a very minor character and B) its used for comedy and to poke fun at Toby Fox himself, rather than being pure wish fulfillment
@@icantthinkstraight8853 obligatory ywnbaw
“I always loved Scooby Doo but I couldn’t possibly relate to the characters because none of them looked or behaved like me.
Now all is me. My humor. My ideas. My me. Me. MEEE.”
-Mindy
Also, it's creepy to say that you can't relate at all to another human being just because they aren't your race or gender or sexuality.
I've watched all kinds of media that is not anything I am and absolutely related. Good writing and story telling allows you to understand a view point, experience or struggle of another, even if you don't know first hand or it's entirely foreign to you.
This is often an issue in comedy that is specific to a type of audience. Really good comedy that covers topics many not be familiar with prefaces that or frames it in a relatable way.
"Velma's character isn't defined by race; kids of all races can relate!"
"Now let's make her defined by not only MY race but also by MY opinions and MY experiences so that the only people that can relate to her are the ones that relate to ME!"
At this point ma’m should have just wrote a wattpad fanfic at this point cause that’s all it seems to be at this point
@@vixxcelacea2778i relate to charactwrs based on how they act. relate to bocchi the rock cause social anxiety.
@@vixxcelacea2778 Exactly, as an Italian, I also grew up watching American and, occasionally, Japanese animated shows and could still relate despite coming from cultures much different than mine. Hell I could relate to gumball at times, a FUCKING BLUE CAT, as I'm sure many kids did. I really cannot understand Mindy.
Alex Hirsch’s self inserts in Gravity Falls were so good that a didn't even know they *were* self inserts!
It's obvious that a lot of love and care is put into the show and it's impressive how many core characters are inserts from Alex's life without feeling like inserts.
To this day, I still think someone like Rohan Kishibe is one of the best self-inserts in media primarily because he’s in the part of JoJo where there isn’t a single character that takes center stage but rather multiple characters who have time to shine. Even with his absolutely busted stand ability, Rohan is either taken out early in a fight (Highway Star, Bites the Dust) or is given equally bullshit fights like his “fight” with Cheap Trick. Araki knows that Rohan’s stand power is broken, which is why he doesn’t pit them against characters who would clearly lose within seconds, in most cases (would have taken everyone out in his intro arc had he not insulted Josuke’s hair).
Finally, there’s also the fact that he’s, according to what we’ve heard from interviews or sources with him, literally Araki but 30x ridiculous, which is just JoJo in a nutshell.
I thought Araki said that Rohan is not his self-insert.
@@KeyleeTamirian
He can say that all he wants but like, just compare Araki and Rohan
Like someone else said if you don’t even notice the character is a self-insert it’s a good insert. I didn’t even think Rohan was a self insert cause like you said he never takes center stage and never has a fight where he’s blatantly overpowered. Very true I love him
Literally one of the reason I like rohan. He's written well and he's also flawed (I think him being prideful of himself is one). Araki is a great manga artist and writer !!
Kaling's Velma isn't even portrayed as a "nerd", lol. Norville literally solves just about all of the mystery elements, and it's revealed that Velma cribs school notes from him.
She has trophies in her room in the first episode... like pretty much no students get for being good students. But given how unintelligently and selfishly she's portrayed, she probably stole them.
@@MereologistNah, she bought them, not stolen lmao
I think self-inserts work when it's about inserting your *experiences* and not your *person* as a whole. For example, in Gravity Falls, the story is about childhood dreams and experiences, while Velma is about how Velma is an "Indian nerd" (who's always right, and despite being "not like other girls" she's pursued by everyone around her).
It's also a big pitfall of a self-insert that the writers usually put themselves into an already existing IP or just a trope. It's basically saying: "Oh, if I was in that situation I would do things so much smarter!", so it usually ends up quite derisive towards the original piece. It's also a bit like these self-insert characters hold a cheat - as they *are* the writer's avatar, of course they know what's the best choice in any given situation. Also, people don't like to be disliked/called out, so self-inserts are usually always proved to be right or they are forgiven, no matter how despicable they behave.
All in all, when you can't tell that a character is a self-insert, then it might be a good self-insert.
It's like they're "meta-gaming" the writing
I am pretty sure Luke skywalker was kinda supposed to be Goerge's self insert ssssoooo
Dipper Pines is a really good example of a self insert.
Soos was based off Alex Hirsch’s friend from art school that no one knew his age.
The key to making a good self-insert is to be humble.
And not to overdo it. Make a new character that maybe has some of your personality traits but try to make it different enough from you that it doesn't seem so obvious...
I’d argue that it hinges on your ability as a writer.
I'd say make the self insert an actual character in a story rather than something to stroke your ego with. As in a character who actually has a role to play in the story rather than someone that the author wants everyone to them as.
There is no such thing as a good self-insert without making people hate it on purpose. Self-inserts are supposed to be exaggerations of all your worst possible traits, and the only way for people to like your self-inserts is if people hate them as people, but not as characters. Self-inserts are a form of self-indulgent narcissism that everyone hates. Nobody likes a narcissist who is themselves in public.
Dante wasn't super humble
“Narcissism is a self-centered personality style characterized as having an excessive preoccupation with oneself and one's own needs, often at the expense of others.”
Also known as, 'still an infant syndrome,' which is why mature people can empathize narcissists but narcissists can't empathize with mature people.
Thanks for reminding me about the trainwreck that was "I am NOT Starfire." There was so much projecting in it I swear the author was gonna pop outta the book any minute to start ranting about her insecurities.
Believe it or not, Bilbo is arguably the best self-interest on fiction. Tolkien drew a lot from his experience in the war when writing, and Bilbo's journey mimics his own. A quaint, quiet life interrupted by some strange war in distant lands by people not entirely good, lesrbs adventure is mostly miserable, boring, and/or terrifying, he survives more through luck and quck thinking than skill or strength, and returns a very different person. Read the book people, the movies did not do it justice.
That's a good self-insert. Rather than literally just...you in a setting and have all the characters love you unconditionally, you instead take experiences you've had, and imprint them on a character to tell your personal story/experience from a new angle.
@@fearlesswee5036 You could almost say it needs to be more about self-reflection and not about power fantasy, at least not the unearned kind these sorts of characters tend to drift into.
@@veloction6130 No Bilbo the clown, what other Bilbo is there.
I dunno, Stan Lee was amazing.
@@potatolord2196 Precisely. It'd be like, if I had an experience growing up where I lost a long-time friend, I may put my character through that. Other elements of the character's personality and background may not reflect my own, but I instead use that negative experience I had growing up to help shape the character, and express how that event changed me growing up in a way other people can understand. Much like how Bilbo Baggins reflects Tolkein's experiences during the war and how it shaped him, and using Bilbo as a "vessel" to help convey how that changed Tolkein's life for better and worse.
Basically, your self-insert shouldn't be ego-stroking and about giving your character the life you wanted in a perfect fantasy world. Nobody wants to read/watch/play that. (Especially if you're a hate-filled vindicative jerk, like the writer of "I am not Starfire" was.)
Did you know that Herge had two self-inserts in Tintin? The titular character himself and Captain Haddock. Tintin is meant to be an idealized version of himself, and Captain Haddock is a more self aware version of the author. Tintin was supposed to be a role model to his child audience, hence he's written to be such a morally good character.
It certainly also helps that Tintin is a good person!
Back in the in day, main characters had to be good PEOPLE, so we liked hanging out with them.
Thing about Tintin too... He is a boring character, he is kind of a blank slate. But! He is that way to make the world around him shine, he is our normal blank slate to see the world through, who we can rely on. Because the world he encounters is NUTS! The world of Tintin is absolutely insane, so having him as our consistent brick in the middle is actually needed.
Also Haddock is just great, he's fantastic. Here in Denmark where I live he's been a meme my entire life and everybody has a joke about him, he's part of popular culture.
Wow! I didn’t know that! I am, and still, a big fan of Tintin. At first I thought they were OCs made by the author minus the self insert.
And we love them both
i loved reading my mom's tintin comic when i was young.
Wow, I didn't know that! That's pretty cool!
Also, I'd like to also add: in the animated series, there is a literal character that represents Herge for real. It's a background character, he's blonde and have a big nose. He appears in all the episodes, you have to pay attention to spot him. If I recall, there's a only scene where he actually talks, and if I'm not wrong, it's in Tintin in America
I remember smart Indian woman who was also autistic and has fake arm. It’s Symmetra from Overwatch.
She has tragic backstory and motivation why she believes corp Vishkar helps everyone (while in reality it isn’t).
Plus she’s like strick, beautiful woman with awesome weapons and voiced by funny actress.
I know Symmetra can beat Velma ass.
thisss
back when blizzard-acti wasn't completely shit
@@angel_of_rust idk, that boat had long sailed when overwatch came out.
and, i know this is personal taste, but overwatch was absolute cancer on the FPS scene. the godawful "press button to win automatically" bullshit "gameplay" rubbed off on a bunch of other shooters that would otherwise have been great, like quake champions. i wouldn't mind overwatch if it wasn't for that, because i could just not play it. but noooooooo, cancer spreads.
blizzard activision was never good. blizzard died when activision bought them. anything remotely decent that came after (like starcraft 2) was just their dying gasps from when they were still just blizzard.
What? I never knew that Symmetra was on the spektrum
@@GraveUypo "No king rules forever"
Jg Quintel's Mordecai from Regular Show and Josh from Close Enough is the best example of a self insert character.
I think you nailed it. There is nothing wrong with basing a story off your own experience. But if your changing someone else’s story to better fit you, then it just looks childish and selfish. Not a big market for those that get in vested in fanfics that steal from others
The worst part is that there are good examples out there of where they used someone else’s work and change out some parts but keep the existing framework plus attributes while honouring the original in a respectable way.
Superman Smashes the Klan can be read as the author’s self insert story because of the focus on the children but could also be read a story about the personal trials and tribulations of finding acceptance.
@@rayvenkman2087 i agree, i actually liked the 3d animated he-man that came out couple years back. Though i think it got cancelled. But that re-imagined he-man but still felt he-man
I got no problem with someone doing a hobby of writing for free and doing a wish fulfillment bonanza. In fact I'm sure someone has done egregious mary sue like character of their fantasy and actually made it work with decent writing or even an explanation of why their character is so OP in everyway (heck, it could be a plot twist in some respect, like they're perfect and they actually try not to be or the series is in fact a horror story where people are controlled or mind manipulated to think the mary sue protag is perfect when it's clear to the reader that they're absolutely average with some self insert quirks.)
Also, even if it's not good and it's terrible writing, uninteresting and purely indulgence, they're not making money (or wasting money) on it. Just their own personal time and effort, to which, more power to them. I won't be reading it because usually someone else's very personal retooled universe fantasy to suit their desires is boring, but hey, it's free and they can write whatever.
Velma has tarnished the name of what could be good talent and also pissed off damn near everyone. Now we all think very little of Mindy if Velma is basically supposed to be her in a vaguely Scooby-doo setting.
I think a self-insert can be fine so long as the creator keeps in mind two things;
1. You can recognize your own flaws if you add them to the character and not gloss over them when the character exibits them.
2. The self-insert isn't always right, perfect, the smartest, or a gosh dang marry-sue.
There lies the different in Dipper and Velma. When Dipper wins, he either went through some kind of growth as a character or worked to achieved his goal. When Velma wins, the answer falls into her lap or things just end up going her way.
Dipper also got shafted and everything he could have had was taken by Mabel.
I will never get over Dipper losing the chance to be Stanford's protege.
i made my self insert powerful but a dumbass like how i do in maths and i did stupid shit before thinking of common sense. and gets jumped by others
@@Nockgunsee that’s good writing , WE LOVE FLAWS IN CHARACTER WRITING, a character can’t be a character without imperfections
A big issues with self inserts is they try to make their character almost untouchable, Mary Sue yk, so aslong as you got them flaws on my opinion, mwa chef kiss A+ character writing
Personally all my “self inserts” usually end up ill and sick due to their own powers ,and usually have issues with emotion regulation , immaturity, or just suck at life in general
So flaws are what makes a character, STAND OUTTT, and, gives them more of a character :))
(There’s a reason Disney villains are so iconic yk)
Your good at writing trust
@@mick6247 you are also to add some idealized parts that isn't like you but can branch out bit from yourself. like being less introverted and reclusive, i added my actual strength is just pondering about how do things be assembled and made. i am good at knowing unconventional things only. I also make him able to speak thai like me cause why not
Agreed. I adored Dipper as a character. He was Hirsh's vague self insert but Hirsh wasn't afraid to make him flawed and insecure; constantly pushing himself to look better in others' eyes until he finally realized he could just be himself, until he truly started to grow and mature. he was nuanced and flawed yet likeable. hell, i would even say he was likeable _because_ the show wasn't afraid to let him be flawed. Similar facets go for Hiccup from How to Train your Dragon, another protagonist i adore.
meanwhile you have velma who is...nothing more then a crass, vapid, self-praising arrogant mess that does not offer anything of substance, sorry to state the obvious. but man do i hate shows like that, shows that think being vulgar, violent and four-wall breaky means you're cool and mature.
I 100% agree with you, self inserts aren't a bad thing if they are used to tell new experiences or stories based off real people. They become bad if they are used as lazy wish fulfilment and even worse if they are used to completely rewrite a character
Self-inserts are terrible if the characters don't hate you with every fiber of their being. Nobody like a self-indulgent narcissist, so you have to have at least ONE character hate you with a passion. That's my philosophy.
@@nevaehhamilton3493 That's just going to the other extreme. If everyone in-universe hates a character for no particular reason (no personal beef, no conflicting personalities, no competition for the same goal, etc), it just comes across as the author trying to artificially elicit sympathy from the audience by showing off how awful the character's life is. Here's how I go about writing a self-insert: I write a balanced, fleshed out character while drawing inspiration from my own experiences and making sure that everything makes sense in-universe. That's it. There's no magic method to making a self-insert work. It's the same method used to make regular characters with more autobiographical inspiration thrown in
@@she_bear_auroraheres how i draw my self insert. a goofball and a literal joke. cause i think and laugh at the fact that no one will take me seriously. and i made everyone else ignore him cause it made no sense to take attention on someone specific that is not from anyone famous or known at all
@@nevaehhamilton3493 Then that just makes it a misery show. Know some balance, man.
simple TLDR: authors in kahoots with hollywood: *MAKE YOUR OWN DAMN STORIES IF YOU WANT TO RESEMBLE SOMETHING THAT BAD.*
7:23 Self Insert is possible but should be done right. Making a Good Story and not damaging or ruining good stories establish by Series
The term you're looking for is Mary Sue (and the male equivalent Gary Stu) and those are the ones where typically the characters have the entire world center around them, the MCs are perfect, multi-talented, and everyone loves them, except that darn Kevin from school- er I mean the dumb evil stinky jerks who are losers and fat.
Velma here exemplifies that Mary Sue archetype. The real reason why Self-Inserts get conflated with Mary Sues is because most self inserts are Mary Sues. Mary Sues are all self inserts because it's the writer trying to rewrite high school, and that's the frustrtating part because most of us are past it already.
That's what I like about the "The Keys to the Kingdom" book series.
The mc is just a normal guy who was drawn into a conflict in which he didn't even want into and actually knows that he is just a normal guy and nothing special.
Funny thing is, he even got told that he was never *the* chosen one but was just chosen because he was chosen.
To be more specific I will use a comparison:
Harry Potter is the chosen one.
This was already decided by the prophecy. He wasn't picked up, he was *born* to fulfill the prophecy.
The mc of "The Keys to the Kingdom" on the other hand was just randomly chosen by the power to fulfill the task.
There was no prophecy and he wasn't special.
He wasn't chosen because of his looks, talent, intelligence or anything similar, he was just unlucky to end up in this mess.
The one who chose him as the chosen one even admitted in the first and last book that he (the mc) was never special in the first place and was just chosen by chance.
Garth Nix did a really good job with this story.
The mc acts like any child would do in his age and he isn't a Marry Sue chosen by fate.
Just someone who was drawn into an adventure where he always almost died and just gets hurt constantly.
Hell, there is even a book where he suffered on PTSD!
But I spoilered too much already.
Anyway, you should try it.
The story is really very well written and is also unique in my opinion.
:D
In this case it would be a possession sue, in which they rewrite a pre-existing character to be more like them.
The term 'Mary Sue' can be applied to male characters as well.
I've actually found a fanfiction which combined two of my favourite franchises (Sonic and My Little Pony) in a crossover. Unfortunately, the author included an original character who is the biggest Mary Sue I have ever seen.
This character is ridiculously overpowered, virtually undefeatable, universally respected, and everything seems to revolve around them. Even Sonic and Twilight Sparkle (supposedly the protagonists of the two franchises in question) seem to play second fiddle.
@@AryTehCapricat Or Thiefsue. Maybe Pilfersue.
Posession implies it’s someone’s and no one else’s.
There's actually some very interesting arguments out there that straight-up Mary Sues are, in fact, a self-insert -- that they're just not openly so, generally, and that would point to the problem being something in the general region of the person responsible for it lacking in self-awareness. I've not actually seen much discussion on what, in this context, it means that they're at least hiding that the character is absolutely a self-insert wish fulfillment character.
Though there's also ones that are actually good, by writers looking to explore what it actually means--who are parodying and/or deconstructing it. Ensign Sue Must Die eventually does both, for example, and I've heard that there's a MLP:FiM fanfic that's following what happens when a (reportedly) unwilling Mary Sue gets returned to normal and everybody brainwashed into liking the Sue is back to normal. (I haven't read it, mostly because not a fandom that I'm that into.) If you want an example of this from non-fanfic...the Shaggy Man from The Road to Oz, and his Love Magnet, which isn't necessarily a good thing to own.
I think it also works for gravity falls because Dipper, Mabel and Stan have moments of not being 100% in the right for their actions and have their share of loses.
Velma is a jerk who questions why nobody kisses the ground she walks on and often rewards her for that behavior.
I don’t have a problem with self-insert characters are not a bad thing, it’s how they are handled. And self-inserts these days especially in Western entertainment are completely unbearable and unlikable.
Especially in western? Have you seen the self-inserts in Asia! They make them such creeps and super annoying
Most characters, western or eastern, are unlikable.
The big thing is these people are using self-inserts to have the power trip they can't get away with irl. it's like they're showing their true colors in a way that they "can't" get in trouble for. It's wild
@@Justyouraveragechaosenjoyer for me it's the fact that everyone likes/tolerates them when people are nowhere near as patient with people like that irl
@@ShinySpinarak yeah, it’s so icky lmao. They basically want to be worshipped, it’s wild
I think the reason why these characters often tend to be unlikeable is because the author gets so focused on using this character as an outlet for their own personal grievances that they forget about how to properly integrate it into a form of entertainment for a wider audience. It’s the authorial equivalent of telling an inside joke to a complete stranger.
I've been saying that the execution is the issue, not the self inserts themselves since I am not Starfire released and I'm SO GLAD you point that out.
I feel like you can tell a lot about an author based on how they write their characyers: how they think and act, how other characters react to them, and how they're involved in the plot. I can't tell if it's the dislikable personalities, the lack of accountability, or the love interest(s) with no chemistry, but it's definitely not a coincidence that Mindi and Mariko did this with their self inserts. I say this because another author profotted off doing the same thing..
Jenny Han, author of The Summer I Turned Pretty. I have personal beef with Jenny because the protagonist puts a wedge between two already estranged brothers, causes a scene at their mom's funeral, is almost never called out on her behavior, and the TWO TIMES she was, the characters calling her out (her mom and her brother so that even more telling) are the ones written off as the bad guy.
If I'm not Starfire is a self insert then that comic was even sadder then I realized.
being made fun of at school for not knowing who your dad is would suck
Another good example of a great self insert done right is Bluey.
That show is based on the creator's life with his own family and his own kids.
The fact that a show for 5 year olds is better written than "Velma" speaks volumes about how she completely butchered the character.
Just reminded me that the Incredibles is another really good example of a well made self-insert family. Mr. Incredible was Brad Bird's insert.
I relate to Velma so much I want her to look like me!!
[Changes literaly every single thing about the character except her appearance which is still close enough to be instantly recognizable]
Why dont people like my Scooby-Doo?
I like this video a lot, it changed my perspective on self inserts, I only really used to see it as meaning the bad side of self-inserts where they go a bit too far (often how they happen in Fanfics) but this helped me realise it's much more of a spectrum, and many great stories have self insert characters based on the writer or people they know, but in those instances you don't tend to notice since it works to great effect to create a more relatable character & relatable experiences.
There’s only one self insert I like and it’s Dante from Dante’s Inferno.
In all seriousness though for a self insert to be good they need flaws to contrast and counterbalance their perfect traits. A great example someone else gave was Gumball from TAWOG where he’s an exaggerated reflection of the main creator when he was a child, he was a overactive hyper big mouth that wouldn’t shut up and Gumball is every bit of that and more but he’s also likable and funny to watch.
Self inserts can be REALLY fun if done properly.
This is why Dungeons and Dragons is legendary
You got me thinking of Rohan from JJBA. He's one of my favorite characters and he's literally Araki's self insert. Rohan has a unique personality and is just an entertaining character who always does weird shit, but you kind of love him for that, lol.
My thoughts in short: Self-inserts themselves are entirely neutral. A character doesn't become better or worse by virute of being a self-instert. If I found out Tolkien saw himself as Gandalf that would not change the story of lord of the rings at all, or how good of a character Gandalf is.
The issue is that many writers who use self-inserts struggle to treat them like other characters. They get more attention than a character should, others have a better disposition towards them than is reasonable or their viewpoints are represented as "correct" while others are "wrong" disregarding nuance.
These issues are not inherent to self-inserts, it is entirely possible to write one without any of these issues. However, many writers who use them are to egocentric or lack the skill as a writer to do so.
I would argue that Frodo or Sam were kinda self-inserts, as the LoTR was based in part on Tolkien's experiences in WW1
@@lukedeakin7124Tolkien has a self insert. Hes tom bombadil, his coat is blue and his boots are yellow
Tolkien's self-insert is Beren, and Lúthien is his wife (those names are even on their graves). Very sweet, if one thinks about it.
Very well said. Self inserts are neutral narrative tools. At the same time by their very nature self inserts tend to attract self aggrandizing, immature, egocentric writers.
Indeed, we often heard "write what you know" as tips for the writers, and how else we do that if not for our own experience? Heck, Tolkien based his writing on his war experience. The problem lies if writer not only warped their own experiences to fit their own worldview, but also self-inserting on an already established character. Velma would be forgettable at best if not for Scooby IP.
A good self insert requires one to actually know who and what they are. A good writer knows how to make themselves relatable to their audience, and how to admit they are flawed and wrong in certain cases.
Agreed, as a writer with one self insert character who a lot of people love and find her iconic
And it's really a lot of thought and if you can do it right, then you have a good character
The Annoying Dog and Temmie are my favorite self inserts.
I'll be honest here.
I do pretty straightforward self inserts whenever i make stories for myself. I literally put myself as what i am in my stories, name and everything.
Though, I don't like to think that I'm an overpowered character or the main focus of the story. I'm just there, and i like to watch the mains story participating on it minimally, like having connections with the main characters and, depending on the story, giving me weak or balanced powers.
I personally don't like to see myself as a center of attention, and when I'm the main character in those stories I usually take it by perspective. Like, I'm just the main character because the story is being narrated by me.
I like to be a side character. And a good friend to the MC's.
Don't forget about that Jared guy who self inserted himself in the Powerpuffgirls reboot, dating blossom... absolutely creepy!
while that sounds absolutely creepy and awful, it's not true. the character's appearance IS based on the writer, but it was a joke by the artists. they thought it would be funny to model the nerdy guy after the writer. and then they decided to make the writer be the actor for the character, since the character already looks like the guy
And of course Tadashi Satomi in Persona 1 and 2, who’s also the writer with the same name and pairs himself with the previous protagonist from Shin Megami Tensei if (aka Persona 0), Tamaki Uchida, who’s modeled after actress and idol Yuki Uchida (who Tadashi also has a crush on) which causes the fans hate Tadashi and forcing him to be absent in Persona 2: Eternal Punishment with him being mentioned that he’s been chased after by a bunch of assassins.
@@charleslynmartin795Persona 1 and both parts of 2 had the Demon Painter who was the self insert of the game's visual artist.
@@DorkN313 I would feel enraged if someone made me into a character like that.
@@DorkN313 wow...shame the PPG example wasn't funny
Remember that when Stan Lee inserted himself into Spider Man, it was as Peter Parker’s boss and low level antagonist J. Jonah Jameson.
😁
Really? That’s so cool!
Key difference is Stan Lee had the knowledge to put himself as basically cameos.
It worked cause even though he's quite the scumbag, he's actually pretty funny too.
Self inserts can work, as you gave an important example on the "Gravity Falls" and "Regular Show" the authors used their experiences like Mindy did for "Velma". The MASSIVE difference however, is that MIndy's experiences are based on her small Hollywood bubble and what they like, and the show does probably appeal to them. However Alex on "Gravity Falls" and jG for "Regular Show"' 's appeal is to the regular people, who went out want wanted crazy things to happen, or did normal things that blew out of proportion.
Key word "BLEW"
The best way to make a self insert is to just insert yourself as the "narrator" character that tells the story itself, or as a character that leads the main characters forward in the story, or simply just randomly appearing as cameo
How velma solved the mystery in season 2.
In order to solve the mystery She had to find the body near a popular hang out spot for teens. That no one was able to find, and the two detectives to not look for because they wanted to become sheriff. Then decide to dig up a dead body to prove that it's a dead person not a ghost that's killing people. For Sophie to randomly decide to whack Velma for some unknown reason. Then she needed Daphne to be randomly be paired with Amber so she can, "will" the universe into hitting her with a car so she could be sent to the hospital and to have the morticians give them access to the dead bodies so they can reveal more classified information. Then she needed Norvell to find classified documents in plain sight to figure out who his grandmother is to have her send velma to the military.
You know what no. It's to much to list to describe how little work Velma did in her series, but gets the credit for what other people have done. If Velma is supposed to represent Mindy. Then that should speak volumes. As for the other one, I'm Not Starfire, I'm pretty sure like her comic book counterpart. She only got the position because of her connections and unlike her counterpart she's not going to be instantly loved for what she did.
For a show dedicated to an existing popular character, it does an awful job of being a show about Velma as the lead. The headliner, the main event, the top-billing star... And she comes off as a genuinely unlikable piece of shit who does a Steven Moffat Sherlock of not actually depicting the actual deduction from a character who is known for it.
@@rayvenkman2087 She has her own villian page. This version that mindy made is the dumbest version of velma to exist. Because someone pointed it out that velma, had that entire big brain moment where a bunch of mathematical equations form around her. One of them was wrong and that equation was right in peppa pig. Look it up I'm not joking.
@@chrimsonphantom How beautiful. They couldn't even factcheck a equation in an age where they can easily look it up.
In 1960's, the people behind Star Trek TOS had to consult the likes of Kellam de Forest's de Forest Research to make their made-up/theoretical ideas plausible.
@@chrimsonphantom MAN GOT THE QUADRATIC FORMULA WRONG 💀💀💀💀💀
Its like the opposite from the old show, velma did a lot if not most of the actual sleuthing, while everyone got credit.
To me a good self insert is splitting up conflicting aspects of yourself amongst characters rather than one character that is just the author. Its reflective and lets you work on flaws that make characters interesting. I think the best writers see parts of themselves in every character they write, not just the "cool" main character.
I'd almost think that has to be the case for most writers. The more I thought about my characters, the more I realized I was either exploring aspects I never considered or parts of myself isolated and branched out with other traits I might not have. I thought most writers would say that there is a bit of them in pretty much all the characters.
IE if you like video games and music and then make a adventure duo with a gaming nerd and a musician and each have like super powers related to their specific niches.
As an author, that’s usually the case for me. I had recently noticed each character has at least one trait from myself, despite all of them being different from each other
There are two main types of self inserts: one - "Nooo, it is not a self-insert! (behaves exactly like the person in question, usually in the worst ways)" and two: "This is (my sona) literally me inserted into the story, with slight changes made to it to fit the universe better. (spidersonas)"
self insert are best for something too.
they are best for closure, to show a legacy , to show someones pain in life , to be an artwork a director can find some sort of closure in.
"The wind rises" is a very good example of miyazakis self insert in the protagonist.
There is also the fact that, as I remember seeing it, the show, Velma, got a lot of hate for changing the origins, personalities and ethnicities of the characters. Which isn't really a good reason for hate, it's more because of how different the characters are compared to previous alterations of them and how they are interpreted. For example, a show like She-Ra, who's remake changed somewhat the story and characters, didn't get so much hate, even then Bow changed ethnicity, or Adora and Catra are a lesbian couple now compared to the original series, or even the fact that the characters are mainly teenagers, while in the original they were all adults. They changed a lot of things compared to the 80s show, but they managed to do it while still being able to captivate the audience, being able to make the story interesting and funny, being able to make the characters likeable and with depth behind them. In other words it is well-written.
People love She-Ra, while they hate Velma, but those two shows both changed the characters from their original counterpart. One does it in a way that we end up loving the characters, while the other one doesn't even try to make us love them.
As someone who is writing a self insert for both my UA-cam channel and comic I’m working on. I think one of the biggest things is remembering your own flaws. Just remember your own flaws that this character would share and remember they exist in the world, so they have to follow its rules and reasoning.
Also remember that they're actually flaws. There's plenty of Mindy's flaws in Velma but there's never any pushback or recognition that they're things Velma needs to work on. The same can be said about "I Am Not Starfire" where the main character is overweight and antisocial but expects people to just accept that about her. Too many of the people writing these self inserts seem to think their flaws are good things that everyone else needs to learn to live with instead of having the characters learn and grow from their mistakes.
Don't just remember your own flaws. Make your flaws the ONLY thing about them. Remember that self-inserts are just a means for narcissistic people to taunt others for not being superior enough to them. People need to start hating themselves more because no one deserves to be happy in a world where everyone makes each other miserable. You need at least ONE of your OCs to hate you with every fiber of your being because your self-inserts don't deserve to be happy. They deserve to be hated because it's a blatant form unapologetic self-indulgence that we are so sick and tired of and can't take anymore.
You have to actually be able to recognize the flaws as flaws. Velma inherits plenty of flaws, she's a viralent racist, misandrist, she's narcissistic and has an obvious inferiority complex that she is compensating for by spewing vitriol at others. The show however, though it portrays these flaws, does not treat them as flaws but often coaches her transparent bigotry in a veneer of righteousness, which honestly is probably the funniest part of the series accidentally but if you take it seriously at all it stops being funny, the only enjoyment I can get out of Velma is chuckling at the crazy racist who lacks basic self awareness throughout.
@@nevaehhamilton3493 You obviously have a bone to pick with this I suppose.
I think it's fine to have a self insert. Just make them human and make sure the other characters are human too, IE might not like, be neutral to or otherwise unengaged with the self insert.
You could totally do a story based on yourself and some of your friends and made up adventures or something.
IE people shouldn't know that it's a self-insert unless they happen to see the parallels. And never make a self-insert a mary sue, because no one is a mary-sue, unless that's somehow apart of the plot and subverts the trope.
@@nevaehhamilton3493someone’s offended… seriously though why are you calling people narcissistic for a character trope,
This trope ain’t new , been around since the start of story telling, actually if it’s good writing it can lead to a more relatable fleshed out character. Dipper from gravity falls for example.
I think you just seen to many Mary sues and then went keyboard smashing and comment warrior mode.
Art is a form of self expression, so of course people are gonna have an oc where they express themselves. It’s called “creative writing” .
It’s just when you pretend your characters a “god” who doesn’t can consequences /and or/ is completely the author and not their own character at all.
If “self inserts” are narcissistic, then damn half artists out here are gonna be screwed, 😭
(Also don’t mean to get into ethics here but I’m so done with people trying to paint any type of self acknowledgement or self obsorbtion into “narcissistic” when in reality that’s a mental condition, people have to go the a licensed professional and get diagnosed and treatment . Not “10 signs a person may be narcissistic “ that’s not how mental health works. Same goes with any other condition .So no, a person isn’t gonna have a mental condition for a writing style that’s commonly used in media.
Welcome to the world of writing and character design ✨, things happen, and even if you don’t like it, most of the time their just a bad writer , like the Velma author , that ain’t a diagnosis for a disorder 😭
Velma is nothing more than just a ego trip for Mindy Kaling
What's sad is that she even made a nice (imo) self-insert too: Never Have I Ever.
Sure it felt weird seeing Mindy's opinions projected onto Devi but it still was an enjoyable show which, compared to Velma, focused more on the characters, their development and the romance than race and societal issues which made it an engaging watch for me.
I don't know if this counts, but Stan Lee inserts himself into every marvel movie. Could just be those small cameo appearances that aren't needed but they are a joy.
Bruce Tim inserted himself into the Batman Animated series as a one time small Villain which also worked
And Akira Toriyama had a robot self insert that is the ruler of Dragon world and is mostly used for brief appearances and jokes.
So Cameos, Small time antagonists and big rulers and play very little role definitely work for self inserts
J Jonah Jameson is a Stan Lee self insert. His idea was that he thought this is what the young people that work under him think of him.
@@liamfitzdrums Really? I was under the impression that Stan Lee based JJJ on his publisher who told him that Spiderman was the worst idea ever, but after he snuck Spiderman into Secret wars he came back and said, "Hey! Stan! Do you remember Spiderman that character we both went really like?!"
What weird jokes especially about a character who’s supposed to be their friend? I’m Latina and Native American and I would not wish for any of my white friends to be arrested omg.
There's the creep that hooked himself with the powerpuff girl in the reboot
Mindy Kaling identifies so much with Velma that she had to change her appearance and personality , my goodness, she looks like JJ Abrams talking about how much of a Star Wars fan he was, or Kevin Smith talking about, well, everything he says.
Self insert can work, as long as you have the talent to tell the story. George is Luke, Tolkien is Gandalf but this guys have talent.
Gandalf is Tolkien
Luke S.
Dante’s inferno was the original self insert
name checks out
1:00 bro said she identifies with velma. bro made the most unlikable character out there and said "yeah thats me"
I have two different stories that have myself as a main character but are wildly different.
One has multiple multiversal variations of me which are supposed to showcase my different emotions and personalities, one is the golden retriever action hero, one is the a short tempered bruiser with a soft side, one is a genocidal monster (from when my friend killed my Minecraft dog), and one is just straight up a therapist, they each have their own character arcs and have different personality traits but still connect on a similar level with each other.
The other story is a classic superhero style, with me as a leader of a team, he’s the most like me, he became a superhero after getting powers as he’s a nerd, he thinks it’s just what people do, but as he’s thrust into leadership he realizes that being a superhero sucks, he gets his ass kicked a lot as he’s not skilled with his powers and he’s a bit lazy and procrastinated a lot, his arc leads him to helping others learn to use their powers in a way that is easier for them, he grows up, anyhoo, are these good or bad self insertion?
I actually love making self-inserts. Whether its from a pre-existing property or my own, its fun imagining what you'd be like in that kind of universe. I mainly do it to feel connected with what I love while also trying to better understand myself and what makes me unique, if that makes sense?
I think charisma also plays a big part in making a self insert actually likable.
I’m reminded of a certain creator who has not one, but two self inserts, one of himself as he is now, and the other, a version he would’ve liked to have happen in his own life, with an insert of his ex girlfriend & an imaginary child they had together, in a show about a ladybug superhero…
As soon as I read,"ex girlfriend and imaginary child",I instantly knew who you were referring to,lol.
And don't forget his bully - Scary Sue trope girl which redemption arc is removed because creator says she is unredeemable.
What the fuck
I don't know much about the damn ladybug superhero show, but now that I know its got one of those poorly thought out self inserts I have less respect for it
@@soulrio But abusive deadbeat dad that erased the universe is hailed as a hero.
I think you gave good examples of why self-inserts can work but showed how they can very much go wrong and ruin the show. Gravity Falls is an example of a good insert where the author is mature enough not to overpower his main character, and while he put a lot of himself into the main character, he also made the main character his own character with his own quartz and faults. Velma is the complete opposite, where the insert character, Mary Sue, is portrayed as always right, even when her character is viewed as completely horrible to both the characters in the story and the viewers.
I think the big difference is with gravity falls , and other shows , they reflect themselves onto the character, adding little attributes here and there, but it doesn’t completely over ride the character, their still their own character with their own experiences that make them unique and their own person
While with Velma,it’s a carbon copy of the author, Velma isn’t their own character, they’re just a branched off version of the author if they were in scooby doo .there’s no character building or development or really fleshed out personality, it’s a full on Mary Sue projection.
And honestly with gravity falls they still make it where the character can be relatable and makes sense to the audience, while with Velma , the only person who would really be able to get the references made in the show would be the author , because of how much of a copy it is.
@@mick6247and last is probably purpose. Gravity falls is about making a story that is practically just fun and made you to feel something and share a bit of creator's experiences
Velma is just uhhh lets just say tryharded on humor and try to send a message and force multiple things on the viewer thats why its bad. other than that it is not believable that someone who acted like that would get thrown into the street of running cars cause how insufferable they are and people just grovel at their feet
You using Gravity Falls as a better idea of a self-insert but with it working so much makes me happy. I LOVE Gravity Falls. I still continue to watch it. Such timeless fun :)
Velma on the other hand... I don't even watch it. Only thing I even know of it is from channels that cover it to make fun of it and talk about how bad it is.
There are no indian nerds... Baljeet," I'd like to introduce myself"
I think one of the tricks for a self insert character is that you have to be willing to laugh at yourself. With stuff like Gravity Falls and Regular Show the self insert characters were flawed, they made mistakes and experienced character growth like a normal non-insert character, and as such they could be the butt of many, MANY jokes. They could be the star of the episode or take a back seat, nothing about the way those shows were written defers to them or gives them special treatment. Dipper steps on the rake, Mordecai gets the pie in the face, everybody gets a turn.
Then you get Velma, an entitled narcisistic little Karen whose primary joke is "I'm the smartest person in the room, and I'm surrounded by idiots!" with a big heaping side helping of "I'm the only girl in the universe worthy of being lusted over!" (Lust over more attractive girls? "Ew, they're fake girls and you're a pig!" Lust over the avatar of the creator? "Aw shucks, go on!") It would help if she ever received some proper karmic backlash for her terrible behavior, but the show never frames her as bad or wrong and she never sees a meaningful consequence, in fact she's rewarded every episode.
Imagine if Eric Cartman from South Park acted exactly the way does, but every other character responded positively to him. His friends think he's cool, and anyone who opposes him either dies or learns the error of their ways by the end of the episode. That would be INSUFFERABLE. (Though given the context of what we now understand as Cartman's character over the years, a single episode where everyone gaslights him into thinking he's cool and popular would be SAVAGE. But I digress.)
Velma isn't just a self-insert character, she's the creator reaching through the screen to smack you and lecture you about all the various gripes and hangups and social justice causes that you don't care enough about, all while a laugh track and a recording of "YASS QUEEN SLAY!" play on permanent loop. That's not comedy, it's torture.
Self insert fics are also often done to get a character with foreknowledge who can than "fix" the plot in some way, to prevent an apocalypse, for instance.
Here is my thought on self inserts:
Self inserts are nothing but trouble especially in established IPs as objectivity goes right out the window.
Now for Gravity Falls since that is more of original show the creator modelled the two main characters from himself and his sister as far as I know they were never mouthpieces for either.
if you want to use an IP just write doujinshi and not make anything official 😅
this was a proper way to explain things
They basically tell us, if you change a character from white to a person of color, they become jerks.
Happened with ariel too.
I'd love to see a youtube channel or series on one built on "This is the bad lesson being taught by [woke writing decision here] in [source here]." because people recognize patterns instinctively.
@@Sorain1 They get banned.
James Allsup did it.
There's a self insert in the "Celemetine Lives" comic book from "The Walking Dead.".
That self-insert literally ruined the stories whole premise
It’s "Clementine lives", right?
People who say Self Inserts are bad, don’t know story telling. Stan and Kyle and to some extent Cartman are all self inserts. David Copperfield and Tom Sawyer were both self inserts. The process of putting yourself into fiction is as old as fiction itself.
Those were created with varying levels of good competency.
Dante was THE srlf insert
Correction: self inserts done POORLY are bad. Self inserts are good if they're actually good and likeable characters, like Dipper from Gravity Falls or Gumball from TAWOG.
What about Rohan from jjba
I always feel like the best kind of self inserts are self deprecating ones, like in Invader Zim when Jhonen Vasquez showed up as one of the disguise options for Zim, which he called "too ugly!"
man if all the jokes are that funny in that show maybe I oughta start watching it
@@amogamogus9595 It's a really great show! Lots of dark humor. There's also another episode called "The Wettening" where Zim drains all the water from Earth into a water balloon, and it shows Jhonen in his house where the water in his fish tank gets drained and a piranha jumps into his glass of water. He ends up accidentally drinking it and chokes on the fish.
A good self-insert comes from wanting to share an experience, letting your audience learn the easy way about things you may have learned the hard way. They show people ways in which the author has been wrong in the past, and how they overcame it. They're born of humility and self-reflection.
Bad self-inserts are used to project opinions, they're the current, fully-formed mind of the author and exist to propagate what the author currently thinks is a correct and complete worldview. They're born of conceit and self-importance.
Not just a Self Insert, but a Mary Sue.
A lot of these successful self inserts are original characters borne from the experiences and personalities of the creators instead of trying to be a one to one insertion.
I agree with you there's nothing wrong with self-insert characters especially those that are original as long as it appeals to a wider audience. The problem when it comes to Velma is that the higher ups at Warner Brothers green let the product in the first place no one stopped to think that this was a bad idea
I mean being a kid with a wild imagination has way more universal appeal than “I am brown”…..
@@alejandromolinac Axe Cop is a perfect example of this and the writer (at the time) was a FIVE YEAR OLD boy and STILL wrote better stuff then whatever garbage Velma ever produced.
Hollywood eats anti-white bigotry up. That this show, which hides its racism as well as a black minstrel, was cleared shows that they are just hateful, miserable racists.
I feel like self-inserts work best with original characters in original stories, not reinventing existing characters or making a fanfic-like world for your OC to interact with well-known characters.
yep i did that. avoiding already made characters cause it may hijack my creativity
I like the self inserts that are like a stan lee ain’t a plot around them not a big focus it’s like a nice wheres waldo
I think self inserts can absolutely be a valid vehicle of delivering a relatable story- especially given that stories are personal works that are usually told from the heart. What makes a self insert work is how likeable you are. I mean, Mr. Rodger's Neighborhood is literally a show about him being himself while giving kids valuable lessons- he was a genuinely loveable man. You don't have to be perfect to be a likeable self insert, but just vulnerable in the right ways and at least palatable.
Self inserts work when the creator isn't a narcissist
Because Storytime animators are effectively self inserts
You mean storytime youtubers?
In other words, self-inserts don't work at all because they're all narcissists when the work of art itself not specifically about them?
The point of story time animation is to tell a story about yourself. You aren’t “inserting” anything in this situation it’s a short autobiography of which you literally are one of the characters depicted there in. Half of the point of the term “self insert” is that you weren’t actually in the situation in question and decided as an author to insert yourself into it unnecessarily.
@@nevaehhamilton3493 No, try again boy.
This show reminds me so much of Lore Olympus its scary. A self insert of someone who already exists, everyone in the story is in love with the self insert, and yet the self insert character is extremely unlikable.
It's worse in Lore Olympus. The Hades/Persephone romance was apparently inspired by Lolita, you know, a book that was about an adult man kidnapping a 12 year old girl so he could sexually abuse her. It also annoys me that LO is supposedly a feminist retelling but it actively demonises Demeter when the original story was about her trying to find her kidnapped daughter, while LO also strangely hates nymphs.
@@TheCrimsonElite666poor Nabokov is rolling in his grave 😭
@@TheCrimsonElite666 it was okay in s1 and s2 but overtime, i stop reading it.
@@Muna-Jlore0997 i tried so hard to like LO even in the first season because everyone was talking about how great it was and I was OBSESSED with greek mythos, but it was just so boring. It didnt strike right with me either too, the characters were so bland and the romance kept repeating. Persephone had no character arc at all.
…did none of you actually read the web comic??? It has nothing to do with Lolita at all (this is coming from someone who knows a ton about the original mythos and about Lolita and no I don’t mean the movie adaptations I mean the original text)