Let's blame the EBU, shall we? | Eurovision 2024
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Is it deserved to blame EBU for this years atmosphere at Eurovision? Should we focus all our thoughts there or not? Let's talk!
#eurovision2024
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Eurovision is my passion. Eurovision was my work and I am still gladly part of the professional community of this project. I started at Eurovision 2016 as Czech Head of Delegation. Such a Eurovision story! Form Eurovision in Sweden I went to antoher ESC experience. Kiiv 2017 Eurovision. This was my first and last failiur. Sometimes you need to learn trough losing even it is not plasant. We ended up 13 in the semifinal, second best score of Eurovision Czechia back then. But after this we established ESCZ national selection format. It was mostly held online. Because of this we found Mikolas Josef who went 6th at Eurovision 2018 in Portugal. Than 11th with Lake Malawi, at Eurovision 2019 in Tel Aviv, Israel.
Eurovision story is crazy. After finding all candidates and songs (-1) for ESCZ 2020 I resigned and left the television for working freelance.
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EBU is responsible for the contest AND their contestants. A lot of delegations have complained that they didn’t feel safe this year, but EBU didn’t do anything about it. EBU created this mess with their dubble standards. So yess, EBU is defenitely to blame!!
yes, I read this and I think its a shame on those delegations as measures were great and actually no incident happened. Also they might be feeling safer if they are not political, they put so much oil into the fire like anytime ever before. EBU did not created double standards, but EBU also should be now very precise in penalty all the delegations who break the rules, including even Israel. We all saw the behaviour of individuals, and never again. So for this, blame EBU, not solely.
@@JanBorsThe EBU DID create the double standards. They banned Russia when it invaded Ukraine. They did not ban Israel while it is committing genocide in Gaza. If you are going to pontificate, at least get your facts right.
Please!!! THis argument, learn something about it and dont spread fake news. EBU (and all its members!!) canceled membership of Russia and Belarus in all EBU structures. Its not about Eurovision at all. Its about the fact that both countries TVs EBU members were using their news the way, that they openly were talking of bombing our European cities with nukes. Eurovision has nothing to do with it. Dont you dare compare those two things.
Other thing - there is no genocide happening. Learn about what this word means. Dont apply it wrongly. This is the worst thing for not just Eurovision, but sociate - uneducated hateful people. You can still change.
@@JanBors The EBU itself made Eurovision political with their dubble standards and confusing rules. There are videos on the internet of a certain delegation consciously bullying other delegations. Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Portugal, Spain, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Greece…they all made claims about the unsafe environment in the greenrooms (which should be a safe space for the artists) caused by bullying and harassement of staffmembers and a certain delegation. What did EBU do? Nothing! They let it all escalate and I’m happy to see people speak up now this event is finally over and show the measures weren’t that great and incidents did happen!
@@harold-thedutchguy why don’t you enlighten us then? I’m sure there is something that is credible and non partisan that can you share that could change our minds.
Countries that complained about the EBU past few days:
🇳🇱 Netherlands
🇮🇪 Ireland
🇳🇴 Norway
🇫🇮 Finland
🇵🇹 Portugal
🇪🇦 Spain
🇨🇭 Switzerland
🇸🇮 Slovenia
🇷🇸 Serbia
🇬🇷 Greece
🇺🇦 Ukraine
🇱🇹 Lithuania
🇪🇪 Estonia
🇮🇹 Italy
🇵🇱 Poland
🇬🇧 United Kingdom
This summs it up without any text required!🙏👍
its ok to complain when something does not work... like in the school, we complain that we dont like other country to the teacher... imo very irelevant. As there was a country which complained that their artist feels terrible after going on stage next to Israel and heard the booing. Some complained about non booing technology. Some because they did not want to be filmed by SVT / EBU media. Sums up, this year was fucked up.
Not 🇸🇪 ?
Whatever the responsibilities of each part may be, something has to change in EBU. The way EBU takes decisions and communicates them seems arbitrary and not completely transparent, even if they are completely justified. Moreover, the application of the "no politics" rule is a completely failure, giving as result some absurd measures while they overlook more important concerns.
About the first aspect for example, I would prefer that at the moment of authorising the communication of votes, M. Österdahl says exactly what happened instead of saying "we tried to contact that or that country but we couldn't". That happened when some irregularities were discovered last year with juries, and this year with Netherlands.
About the second aspect, EBU can not continue to ignore the political reality of the contest. Eurovision is not just political, it is a form of soft power show-off of the participating countries and it's an expression of adherence of those countries to Western values. The participation of Israel in Eurovision is explained by the same reason why some countries like Hungary or Türkiye don't participate anymore. At the same time, the exclusion of Russia is not just because of the lack of independence and liberty of expression of the broadcasting national entities.
From this point of view, the participation of countries in Eurovision seems to me very similar to the participation of countries in international sports or other cultural events, which struggle to find criteria adapted to the new approaches of modern societies to Human Rights, Values, and Governance reliability.
@@MikaelWallentin. as far as I know, Sweden has only said that even if they win Eurovision next year(s), they will refuse to host Eurovision next year due to the high costs this year
Im really upset that EBU censored Iolanda's performance in the grand final and posted the video after the voting ended, potentialy hurting our televoting result. I really hope that our broadcaster (RTP) sues and does a formal complain against EBU. Beyond that, the double standarts (Israeli journalists and part of the delegation not having their credentials revoked and Joost Klein expeld when he is innocent until prove and guilty at court of law), and the conflict of interests of the EBU (Marrocanoil being an Israeli company with Israel directly competing) are just ridiculous
I am not actually, I am more likely sad they weren't vocal and open why... as she used forbidden symbolics. Its easy. Some artists decided to do whatever they want and break all the possible rules. There for sure must be some penalties over this. Counts for everyone who did it. They all ruined the atmosphere together.
You shouldn't. She was reckless, just like others also were. They claim they're peacemakers and that peace will prevail but they took every chance they got to ignite negative reactions towards Israel. They're entitled to their opinions but they gotta leave them outside the competition. They're representing their countries, not themselves and they were chosen to sing a song, not to express their political views. There were riots outside, the israeli participant could barely leave the hotel and was being massively booed in the arena. What did Iolanda, Bambie and others were trying to achieve with these silly protests? A riot to burst inside the arena? Did they save any palestinian child with it? No, they just endangered another participant's well-being. So yeah, every life matters... except the israeli participant's apparently. What a joke...
@@JanBors Exactly this. 100%
@@JustYetAnotherUser Even if some of the contestants didnt say anything, explain to me why EBU didnt act, by revoking the credentials of some israeli journalists and part of the delegation (recorded videos and photos without the consent of the delegations, the harrasment of journalists)?
@@JustYetAnotherUser Lets say they shouldnt express their political views inside the eurovision bubble. How can you explain that the EBU didnt act when it was obvious that some israeli journalists and part of the delegation was intimitading, provoking, recording and posting videos on social media, without the consent of several contestants and journalists. Did EBU revoke their credentials? No
I'm making a 5 year vacation from the ESC. To be frankly, I didn't even watch the finals, and that caught my family by surprise, they know how much I love this show. The hatred between all sides and the NQ of The Netherlands sapped all the joy I had for this event. A pause will be very healthy for my brain, meaning no disrespect for those who want to stay. But, clearly, I need a vacation. Great video, keep up with the good work.
fair enough! Hope you'll come back sooner ❤️🙏
I'm not taking a vacation but I'll definitely not talk about it with family. I'm a loner ESC watcher, meaning everyone knows I love it, but noone watches it unless I made them. I woke up my sister who works 3rd shift to watch it with me (US)
I made her pick her favorites, I had snacks.. I wanted to feel happiness. It was weird to explain to her all the drama. I was thinking to myself "Why am I promoting this? I sound so weird talking about the songs, and trying to be excited about the show when no one is happy this year."
I took the TV from my mom... Next year I'll watch it in my tablet. Is not worth the hype I try to create in my head.
@@tagaway6173 , I understand your point of view. It's fun as long as we see it as a song show, that's all. That's why I was so disappoined, this year. Politics destroys everything...
Leave it altogether. But at least please pray for us to fight to cleanse the Eurovision Song Contest from every sin it suffered.
@@gerardkhachaturyan4814 , "leave it altogether" sounds a little too extreme. Eventually, I'll come back. However, the latest statistics have shown that it's the indifference of a certain label - or lack of interest - that makes a corporation or event panic, and finally make changes. As long as people stay and buy the product, nothing will change. But - like I said before - I'm tired of seeing entertainment being poisoned by radicals, wether they come from the left or from the right. All I want is a nice singing contest, with lots of glitter and happy people. Is that asking too much? Peace! :)
Everything was politics, especially in connection with Israel, the whole conduct at Eurovision was a failure, it was a shame, the most disappointing year 😮
it was on so many levels, also showed lots of things which should have been already solved
It was the worst Eurovision in the history! No matter how fancy was the stage and production, the glamourized hosts or the qualities of the song. The amount of hatred from the crowd towards the Israeli delegation was so shameful and a huge form of contamination to EBU. They had months to prepared for that knowing it was coming and yet the bare minimum has been done. I was also disgusted by almost half of the delegation such as Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Greece, UK and others for making irresponsible statement stemming from lack of knowledge and pure ignorance. Lets take a look on the jury voting from most of the countries that purposely ignored the Israeli artist just not to be "linked" with it. How this competition turned into a stage of hatred ?? continuing with this, it should not be existed! Shame on all of you that took part of it: the crowd, the EBU, the participates , journalists, the Swedish production, etc. I HOPE EACH ONE OF YOU WILL EXPEREINCE PUBLIC HUMILIATION AND HATRED TOWARDS WHO YOU ARE IN BOTH YOUR PROFESSIONAL AND PERSONAL LIVES.
The question one should ask, is who though it would be a good idea to host the Eurovision in Malmo, from all the cities Sweden has to offer? As far as I know Malmo (a.k.a. little Gaza) is not the quietest place in Sweden, at least for the past 10 years and probably more!
Is it really a surprise that the people of “little Gaza” (sorry Malmo) would try to disrupt the Israeli singer regardless if there was a war or not - the war is just an excuse for people who oppose Israel to jump on the Pro-Hammas, PLO, BDS bandwagon!
Well written
Well, Malmö was choosen before all this situation started. The organisers can't adapt the contest to the needs of every country, yet they are responsible for the safety of all participants. Moreover, the Israeli song was accepted at the very last moment, because they had to change the lyrics. I guess there were not so much the Eurovision organisers could do in this edition, but they can get some lessons for the future.
For God's Sake, CALM DOWN, read a book, meditate, relax, take a pill! We're not talking about WW3, we're talking about a silly song contest with silly customs, silly people, and practically nobody on this planet watches it. PERSPECTIVE.
The EBU has made some mistakes but we can't put all the blame on it. This year, several people have acted in a childish way. Some artists have gladly tried to break or broken the contest's rules when it comes to delivering political messages (Bambie's encripted messages, Iolanda's nails, Slimane's speech on his dress rehearsal prior to the grand final, for example). Some delegations threatening to withdraw last minute and making the situation more tense (when they knew from the beginning that Israel would participate and their wishes couldn't be fulfilled). Spokespersons boycotting, like Alessandra and Käärija. And in the case of the latter, acting in an hipocritical and opportunistic way, since he had no hesitation to dance with Eden on the semi-final's day, but then decided not to award the points at the grand final because "it was not the right thing to do", proving that some people don't act out of pure conviction
lots of shame happened, let this be a memento for us
The highlight of the contest was Käärija apologizing for dancing with Israeli contestant. That was surreal.
that was a sum up of it all
Hello and thanks for this video!🌷I agree so much that people need to go to themselves and pay attention to their behavior, how they channel frustration and hatred and question themselves if they put it on the right object.
Which leads me to Gabe, who releases a video with Joost and Martin Österdahl as the main characters today at 20.00. It's called Winners and Losers, oh my god just the title shows the low level. He's also playing with fire because the prosecutor hasn't made a decision yet.
The information I have so far in the case Joost is that he is investigated for illegal threats against a female photographer. Info I have received from one side have said that he risks (is expected to) be prosecuted. Recently Joost's lawyer has stated that he claims not guilty and that they see good chances for release. He knocked the camera away from the young photographer who was so shocked that she was offered help and support. He allegedly caused the woman's camera to break. He had said before that he did not want to be filmed. According to him, he asked photographers to stop filming, some were intrusive...Whereupon he allegedly became angry, raised an arm with a clenched fist and lunged. But he didn't hit the photographer. Witnesses said that he was very aggressive and offensive. I read that the testimonies did not agree with what was said, which could be a decisive point. There must also have been previous incidents that were weighed. We'll see where it lands.
The decision was unanimous, 15 different TV companies were with in the decision that Joost would be disqualified. The EBU would not have done what they did if they did not consider the matter to be serious. It is said, however, that this is not a more serious crime by the police in Malmö. While the legal process was ongoing, it would be inappropriate for him to continue in the competition said EBU. Rightfully.
I'm not going to mince words, Gabe is an ignorant fool who wants to act like a omniscient, but is failed by us more knowledgeable who see through his scam. However, he has now succeeded in angering me by listening to his empty propaganda speech once again which prompted me to write a couple of comments about how it REALLY stands!
He brings my country into total disgrace and all the positive things that we here in Sweden have felt in the preparations with the show, all the professional staff, artists, those who work with events outside the arena etc.. Not to mention the phenomenal work of the police to avoid a single scratch despite immense pressure. He throws out nothing but negativity throughout the video and insults Malmö as the worst Eurovision ever done since time immemorial. After all, this is not our image, even if outside forces encroached and hindered our desire for an entertaining musical program in a peaceful spirit.
I get angry, because there has been a lot of joy among all involved and the artists have gained friends for life and a career boost. What also annoys me is that I see "so-called friends" within familiar youtube channels buy all this crap lock, stock and barrel!? And of course he deleted my comments and blocked me because they exposed him as something of an idiot. They got "likes" but was removed by him not YT. I already feel disgust for what is to come with regard to Martin Österdahl, who is mentioned in this video.
Let me continue in the next comment....🌺
Yeh, but dont get angry, it is just sad but there are nice things to celebrate even I completely feel you :)
@@JanBors Thanks 😊, but it's hard not to given the exaggerated slander that has no verifiable basis. And he spreads all his criticism about my country and the city of Malmö to the public, who buy it directly!?
I guess you saw this laughable or should I say pathetic speech.. I couldn't help but laugh, the guy has hubris 😂. You were also mentioned, sorry about that!! ❤️ He talked about Malmö Stad as a loser, without knowing a thing! My second comment ended up outside, don't know if you saw it. He defamed Martin Österdahl as expected. I wrote this earlier:
Thank you for standing up for Martin Österdahl and mentions his knowledge and matter-of-factness as a decent man. We have attended the same renowned music school Adolf Fredrik. He went to high school there, I was in grades 4-9. The school has high discipline and usually the highest grades in Sweden due to outstanding teachers. Many of our top artists within Mello and Eurovision has attended this school, Carola, Danny Saucedo, Molly Sanden etc and you apply via a test that assesses your musicality.
From my knowledge, Martin is a huge knowledgeable, educated, learned person in many proffessions. Journalist, TV producer, has been behind some of our top entertainment programs in sports and lifestyle. Besides being the EBU's Executive Supervisor. I have only the impression of him as a decent and nice man.
I strongly distance myself from people who have no better sense than to boo him. Again one places one's anger on a single individual, just as with Eden, without seeing the larger context. The decision regarding Joost is not his alone, 15 different television companies were involved in the decision! A police report is handled in the time the police have the opportunity, they were already very busy. Gabe doesn't seem to get this and complains about every minute of this turn of events, portraying it as torture, ready to go home. Cut them some slack I say! The only time he didn't feel stressed was one time when he arrived, the rest of the trip he was stressed constantly??? Exaggerrate more dude, not at all the experience from my close friends (and other youtubers)! I didn't let it affect all the other positives, handed that over to the police and the EBU. I understand the confusion and the great disappointment of all fans, but here you have to take it easy and give the matter time to be understood and investigated.
Is there any way to stop this guy Gabe? 🤔😂 He wants to play expert but unfortunately it turns out to be the opposite. Shocked how gullible people are. He is annoying. I put my hope in you. ☺️ I am very grateful for your content and become a counterpoint to this farce. Thank you so much!! 😊💖🌹
well, people seems to like it, good for such person. Exactly the reason why EBU should or must strenghten their communication and PR in general towards the contest. Also each country should be very firm in communicate better to their fans. The thing what some of Dutch delegation did after Joost was really not thought well and put even more flames into the bubble. Those detail, alongside with politicians in several countries really did not help and also some artists. Than some bloggers are making good money out of it or what is probably even worse, they really felt stressed even it has no logic. Issue what I see, is the rhetoric they use, lots of disinformations and clear lies. So no fact checking or worse liberate lie spreading.
I also thing Martin Osterdahl is a right man on a right place and really not envy him. He started with the hardcore era with so many things happened including covid year. And basically every year something. I believe that behind the scenes this must be really crazy, also with all other broadcasters. Not an easy position.
@@JanBors I agree with all the points here, very good summary of what is the basis of imbalance, conflicts, discord, dissatisfaction, problems, bad atmosphere, irritation and chaos. It feels overwhelming to solve when you look over everything, work is required at every single level and personal responsibility. 🌼🌷😊💖
@@JanBors And thanks for the kind words about Martin, he wasn't part of my reasoning, although work and personal responsibility apply to everyone. 😊 You are so right, covid was a tough challenge. According to Martin, it became a host championship in deviation management and backup plans. How would they keep all the delegations as safe as possible? That meant new requirements. Fewer delegates in each delegation, strict rules around presence in the arena, they were not allowed to be out in town, go to restaurants, or go shopping. They had to build test centers outside the arena, conducted 37.000 tests on their crew, testing everyone every other day. Somehow they made it work but it was very difficult, Martin said.
As a manager, it is about being clear and communicating a lot, repeating the same message over and over again. All employees need to receive the same brief and the same story, and it must be delivered in a human way he says. It is very important to bring the human along.🌹
Other quotes from Martin are that hate does not belong in Eurovision. He also says that the EBU is not a platform for solving global conflicts. We are not the arena to resolve a conflict in the Middle East.
My impression of Martin is that he is a very competent manager with sound values and humanity. 😊🌺
As a fan, what this year has brought me is a very good filter to whom I want to listen in the future
Agree 💯 ... True colors have been shown and that's ok.
We play the game, we shouldn’t create tension, it was very unfortunate to be showing your opinions, when that is not the purpose. That definetely participâtes to destroy an idea that has been transformed by wokism and the new obligations to respect it…. it's too much. I Watch the show since I was a child, I am a gay man that doesn’t put himself on a reductive label, I am a human being, and I consider myself quite open. This gigantic show showed us all the facets of humanity, not always shiny...
we should probably promote love and care, and good music, fun and Joy of Life for all the planet ❤️❤️❤️
big yes!
If Israel had not participated, nothing would have happened, all the other participants were very nice and friendly with each other and respected each other, and then there would have been no uprising with demonstrations outside. Israel has used the Eurovision Song Contest as a propaganda tool.
Since you're talking about it. I would just say that obviously the Israeli channel linked to EBU would be independent and break the back of the government about its so reprehensible actions. The poor Israeli candidate has nothing to do with it, and it has become the punching ball of many people. We can and should ideally separate things...
if, if, if... if the bullied person wont come to the class, it wont be bullied... if a women not wearing the short skirts, there will no be a rape... bla bla bla
@@tillypattiasina9206 Your statement as if Israel is using the Eurovision Song contest as a propaganda tool, can be be made for every country who hosted the Eurovision.
The hosting country, regardless if it is Eurovision, Mondial, Olympics and so on, will always try and show the beauty of it's country to the world, and leave aside the handful of problems and controversies it may have!
Do you think the UK who hosted Eurovision Song Contest of 2023 did not use the Eurovision as a propaganda tool? Has anyone ever challenged the UK on the territories it still holds outside of the Island of Great Britain for example: Chagos Islands, the Malvinas Islands, Akrotiri and Dhekelia and more?
There are at least 2 things that need to be done before the next event:
1. The contracts between the contestants and EBU must be tightened up in a way that prevents bullying of other contestants on the background of their nationality or religion. Eden was forced to move to another floor of the hotel just because Bambie didn't want to share the floor with her. That's unacceptable.
2. Jury judging needs to be abolished. We don't need "experts". Music is art, and art is subjective. Show a person living in a jungle a song and they'll tell you if they like it or not, without 10 doctorate degrees in Music. Plus, jury members can be biased and corrupt. We saw they were biased against Israel. Some came forward and admitted as much.
Always the victims never your fault
@@LolStein Our only fault is that we exist - otherwise you would have to find someone else to scapegoat (just as you do in the UN) or be forces to solve your own interior problems you are afraid to deal with or speak about.
The unquiet situation in Malmo (a.k.a. little Gaza) for the past 10 years (at least), is one of those interior problems, Sweden (in this case) is afraid to deal with or speak about.
Once I knew Eurovision would be hosted in Malmo - for me it was no surprise that the Eurovision would looked as it did (and I am thankful it didn't get any worse)!
you know what - everything this year just showed that people are in general idiots. This problem will not be really solved by changing one rule to another. What would actually help is to fine such behaviours, means there is an urge need to push Eurovision to another level of competition, like champions league.
Eden and Bambie were not in the same hotel. As the matter of fact no one besides EBU knew location of Israeli delegations hotel. Where did you hear this information? Which outlet leaked this info?
Some years I make a blind listen 👂🏼
Meaning i listen to all the songs multiple times so i don't get influenced by artists, their looks, the country, the visuals/performance/video...
You get the idea.
🧡 I loved ALL the songs so i didn't find a need to make a top 10 for each semifinals.
I was so excited.
Around the end of April i decided to watch the videos.
I was more excited 😆
(Especially because i love returning artists)
Then i started reading the comments 🙄
After last year i decided to no vote.
After this year i decided to no promote the show.
((My profile pic in Whatsapp was the Eurovision banner with the dates))
I know people dislike "neutral" people like me
But I just focus on the singers/songs/dancers.
This year was impossible to avoid the drama.
But I completely understand your stand
This has been my worst ESC experience EVER.
As bc of the disqualificatuin of Joost Klein I didnt watch the final live in 30 years.
When you have almost half the countries threatening to pull out, the EBU must have SOME blame. I think it's time for Osterdahl to go and for Stig Karlsen to replace him.
actually we know about few artists, we dont know about any EBU member who would like to do it.
I think the EBU, at the moment, is standing in the middle of the road, appeasing no one in the process.
I agree. But on the other hand its their role to be in the middle.
Thank you for this great season!
I'm tired of arguing with obvious Eurovision non-fans because I don't have the energy for their argumentative fouls anymore. A person who wants to enjoy Eurovision can take a few days off from politics..... Only the singer and the team came to Malmö and not the government of Israel, so in terms of competition Eurovision should be safe to enjoy. Or do you really think that everyone from Israel, no matter wherever they go, is a threat to the event? It can't be the EBU's fault for the hostile environment created by the people, artists and media there... it's still a song contest and not a political parade. Logic folks - Eden is threatened but Israel/EBU is to blame... even if Israel wasn't there the toxicity of non-fans and promoting hate in favor of some boycott would still be there. Noa Kirel, last year's lead singer for Israel, described the atmosphere best... when she showed group photos with Looren, Kaarija and Alessandra and wrote - “When music was just music! there is no place for antisemitism!” I hope Switzerland 2025 will be better... 🙏
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
The original sin was done in 2023. When instead of encouraging originality the juries agreed on propping up "Tattoo" to an insane amount of 170 points above anyone else. The organizers should discourage returning artists or worse returning winners. Tattoo was less good then Euphoria and still got way higher points against better competition. Sweden itself is always overrated and it looks like even if their act would be some guy waving Swedish and rainbow flags and not singing a word it would get 50 points.
This got us to Malmö, AKA "rape capital of Europe" one of the least safe cities in Europe with no go zones where police rarely enters and with a large community of people that are against everything the ESC is supposed to be for instead of much safer and quieter Helsinki.
idk - Loreen just simply won, this is soar. Choosing of Malmo anyway was not a good choice as we saw. That was a mistake.
It was an uncorfortable week for me. It was not as enjoyable as it supposed to be. During the week I attended the semi-finals shows and the situation inside was very tense and disgraceful. Although I had my ticket to attend the Grand Final, that saturday I decided not going. It was very sad and of course I have to blame EBU for ruin my Eurovision this year. EBU is the main responsabile for letting all that things happened and it has to be changes in EBU for trying that nothing can ruin a festival that celebrates music, love and peace in Europe. This year EBU failed, sorry.
You think EBU's issue was that they let Israel to participate or that they did not communicate better to fans and artists not to behave like crazy canceling people?
@@JanBors Trying to interfere in the fans and artists' behaviour should'nt be an issue for EBU in any year. Making the right decision is.
the right decision would be not to allow some clearly xenophobic fans to enter the contest next year, that would be a massive statement
Exactly no transparancy. My country Belgium asked some questions to our own EBU members and got....NO answers. Only an official statement. That is not tolerated imo. Changes of policies is requiered tha's for sure.
but we dont know what is rly happening behind closed door, do we?
@@JanBors Yes maybe the questions came too soon, some things need more time, but not so simple in the fast world 😉
exactly, but I have a feeling than again everything will happen behind closed door. Which is basically ok. But it really helps the community to come with new and more spicy conspiracy theories.
The EBU is responsible given the hypocrisy in their rules of when things are political and when they are not... the reaction to that from fans/contestants makes sense following. Saying ceasefire would not have been censored for when russia attacked Ukraine. Now it is when contestants are referring to what is happening to Palestine. The EBU mishandled this completely, likely given sponsorship reasons.
this is for sure EBU's incompetence or bad decision making, I agree. But that does not really give artists the right to behave like they behave. If they don't agree with EBU rules, why they are anti-semitic? Openly hateful? There are better forms, right?
@@JanBors what examples are there of artists being anti semitic exactly?
Joost Klein and Marina Satti were being complete A HOLES to Eden during the press conference. Both of them should have been kicked out immediately for their inappropriate behavior. So unprofessional.
Tottaly agree. At such press conferences there is always a host and representatives og the organizers so I wonder why none of them pointed out the unacceptable behavior of Marina and Joost. They should have controlled the situatuion much more strictly.
Oh what about the Israeli an delligation? They where constantly bullying the contestans.
@@nathaliehek1274 You and others keep repeating those vague yet extreme accusations against the "Israeli delegation" but give no examples or facts, at best you reheat the same 1-2 debunked conspiratorial spins of some disaffected immature contestants, the ones that actually (well documented on tape and text) bullied, agitated, obsessively incited against, provoked and excluded another fellow participant (predominantly for their own empty virtue-signaling, moral narcism and boosted ego, by getting "likes" from the social media keyboard warriors brigade).
What did Marina do? I missed that.
🇦🇲🤍🇬🇪🤍🇬🇷🤍🇫🇷
too many competitors, presenters and crowd members maid it about themselves and took the attitude of "if it doesn't go exactly how I want I am not playing along". and EBU tolerated that.
and for this should be blamed. It is a hard position as you risk broadcasters will not apply again. But if the cause of Eurovision is still important for everyone, they should push of this might not happen ever again and accept the fact they behaved like absolute assholes, feed the toxicity everywhere. Also they should ban some vloggers and "journalists" for some period of time from the contest, who also were feeding this atmosphere. Like it is usual in sports or anywhere else. You want to be part of the show - behave. Easy rule.
@@JanBorsBehave? What behaviour is worse than committing genocide?
Nothing but who is doing it?
@@JanBors You know who. Israel. The state on trial for genocide.
@@damianconnolly3618 Are you sure you know what that big word (genocide) even means?
Lately I hear this big word used by many ignorant people in arguments just so they can defame, insult and slander the people or country they appose, or maybe to get people on their BDS, PLO pro-Hamas bandwagon!
Only losers 🙈🙈, let's pass away EBU, Eurovision and their singers are not respected this year 👿👿👿
hmm, many artists did not respect Eurovision this year in general and bring their agendas to it. This is not EBU to be blamed, but artists.
Israel 🇮🇱❤️🇮🇹
My thoughts as a superfan:
I must admit I was glad this years's edition is over. Bringing the outside world to the contest is dangeorus for the future . More artists are bringing their own platforms instead of songs to the contest. Now it is all about sexual identity, climate change, social issues and politics and not about songs. Ireland was just a theater piece with trans symbols. Nothing resembling a typical song. I agree that the EBU should enforce its rules better. Boy, have they become blue in the face when it comes to diplomacy and keeping everything politically neutral. I agree with the handling of Joost Klein. His case will be coming to court in June. I'm glad both sides of this bizarre case are being heard. Bad behavior does not get rewarded.
The trolling of artists to boicott the contest is ridiculous. I interpret this as 'how can you think this way? or you must quit!' as if there is only one way to think in life.
AS for the lockdown time... 'idle hands are the devil's work.'
Maybe we could have Nestle ;) as a sponsor next year.. ( don't get me started!)
I do feel , Jan, that you are the only blogger who listens and is patient enough to understand these issues.
Lastly, poor Sarah Dawn Finer ( LInda Woodruff). Not the best timing to bring back the 'EBU' satire.
All the best and peace from Norway
I cannot agree more on what you said. Imo it comes with the left wing loud society which is now very active on the west, absolutely irrational and not properly educated, driven by emotions, easily manipulated. And this stream of thoughts was already proven many times very dangerous. For sure not any kind of politics belong to Eurovision even it is inevitable, that it is surrounded by it, it should not be feed from the inside of the bubble.
Wrt Joost Klein true but shall we not forget the questionable role of the camera woman! That something happened is evident but the question is was disqualification too extreme. Evident is that if camera woman would have been a man and Joost Klein a woman this would have had a different outcome. If Joost Klein would have been a representative of the Big 5 it would have had a different outcome as well. So far we dont know the complete story, all is based on stories leaked by a Swedish tabloid who has published 3 different versions since the incident. And what happened to respecting someone's boundaries? He never said he didnt want to be filmed, he asked (on more than one occasion) if she could wait for a moment after his performance. From a human aspect why wouldnt you respect that. No is No, nowadays this is a basic right but not in this situation? Furthermore EBU should not have reported in their first statement that it concerned a female crew member. If it would have concerned someone with a different skin colour it would have not been mentioned (rightfully so) and it would have been reported more neutral. And what happened trying to resolve it as adults. Listen to each other, try ot understand each others emotions, try to understand the context etc. Again he should have been the smart one but in all honesty I dont know how I would have reacted if someone keeps pushing boundaries and not respect the meaning of the word no. And to conclude with the most important. What happened to innocent till proven guilty? Anyhow to be continued
Dear Jan Bors,
I like watching your videos and you are indeed a sensible person.
The EBU can indeed make decisions that we all may not agree with, but what a part of the fans want to do to Martin Österdahl seems clearly disproportionate to me. "They want his head". Inadmissible!!!
they just dont even know why, its so sad
I'm sorry but you can't imagine drastic changes can be made with the same people. Therefore I think Martin Österdahl has to resign. Anyway the fact Israël took part this year had obvioulsy a huge impact on the atmosphere of the contest ... and on the result too ! For the sake of the ESC, and looking back on what happened, it was certainly a wrong decision made by the EBU to let KAN enter the contest this year.
Not saying EBU didn't commit mistakes but EBU can't be responsible for the immaturity and lack of professionalism from the participants.
What should have really happened: everyone should have followed Baby Lasagna's example.
@glaudio67 Stop blaming Israel who has a sovereign right to participate. This is such a bulshitt. Actually them participating showed the levels of hatred we accept when it comes to them. It must not be ever tolerated again. Its a shame of the whole community, all the desinformation, all the strong words usage, few openly antisemitic, disgusting. And we tolareted this. Some even complain why we let them and I say - in germany 1936 they would be very proud.
Because of people like you hate wins and being spread
You don't say to a girl: you can't go out at night, because that might trigger some men out there that can't control themselves and may cause trouble.
Israel is in Eurovision and other participants have to stay professional.
The minute the participants act on political views then that's when the problem starts
The minute when one delegation thinks they can provoke and harass other delegations thats when the problem should have started. Unfortunately it didn't. Why not? Origin of their head sponsor says enough. There have been various complaints by certain delegations about harassment, why was EBU's so called zero tolerance policy (does it even exist?) not applied here? Oh wait they cant disqualify a representative of their major sponsor. A perfect example of EBU's double standards and its a disgrace. And yes Jan I know you're about to intervene. Curious how you are going to down talk and jusrify this.
The minute one delegation thinks they can get away with harassment and provocation thats when the problem should have started. Unfortunately it didn't. Despite complaints by various other delegations, this particular delegation got away with anything. Not based on conflict but purely on harassment and provocation. Not strange knowing the origin of their major sponsor. So what happened to EBU's so called zero tolerance policy (does it even exist?) Based on it this country should have been disqualified! And yes Jan I know you're going to intervene but how are you going to justify this? Clear example of double standards by EBU which has become as rigged as a FIFA. And can EBU please change their slogan. United by music? What a joke
exactly
100% agree. They were so childish and reckless and then played victim when they were called out for it.
Israel being allowed to do its propaganda on the esc WAS political. It was absolutely disgusting and so were the double standards of EBU. There were no consequences to any of the Israeli delegation's and press actions. And you think the problem was the other participants' reactions?
EBU? It is not the EBU's fault that some participants this year behaved pathetically childishly..
Next year, the participants who will compete should just accept the fact that Israel is being there, that's it. And if you are such an extreme anti-Israeli person like Bambie for example, then you shouldn't take part! Easy! Eurovision is not a parliament. The participants there should sing their song and not be some kind of political activists, that's it.
And to be really brutally honest, I think Eurovision should not have "eurovision fans" or "lgbt fans" as contestants for countries anymore. It is better if those who go to Eurovision are experienced and knows how everything works and also focus on what they are there to do - then the atmosphere will certainly be better for most people. 👍👍
That argument of yours was correct, only if the EBU had the same criteria in the "0 tolerance policy", which it didnt. I do agree that if Joost did something wrong, apply the rules, but also a certain delegation that used methods like provocation, harrasment, bullying, recording videos and taking photos without consent and posting them on social media, the harrasment of journalists (like the spanish journalist case that made RTVE to make a complain to the EBU). Did the EBU revoked their credentials? No
hmm, I agree on the first 100%, on the other not - its sovereign decision on each country who they will send, or who they are able to send.
I think you mean fans with press accreditation? I think that was definitely something the artists didn't see coming. Israel's song was rejected twice for being too political, so it seems that also Israel intended to do some activism there...
The EBU needs to accept the politics coming in, I think that could help a lot. Politics is about how our societies work. Back in the eighties and nineties, there were a lot of political songs (Insieme 1992 and Ein bisschen Frieden even won). For me, there should always be a space in eurovision for positive messages: pro peace, pro inclusion etc. because it's part of the DNA of the contest...
Nemo is a great winner from the queer community and others were there before him (Jean Claude Pascal, Dana Internationall for instance). They're part of what makes eurovision what I hope it will remain: a diverse and safe space for everyone...
yes and the contest was shit for two decades. EBU prevented Israel (and many others in history) to use the name and lyrics they found political. Its ok. Maybe they also did this to few others but ofc no jews no news. This is absolutely normal for Eurovision, just most of it dont make it public.
And thx for correction, mean fans with accreditation. I agree Nemo is a great winner. I cannot care less about if its good for any community, important is that music won for me after all. Hope this is a fresh start.
@@JanBors no, not really. the first one I think was Put in Disco from Georgia. I can't remember an Israeli song being rejected for political reasons in those days. Israel in Eurovision often was fun, up tempo, slick choreographies... I enjoyed a lot of their entries (Lazy Bums, Ofrah Haza...). I don't think they were political, but I don't speak Hebrew :). I hope next year we will have left all this bs behind us and we have our week of positive vibes again...
I think we shall blame EBU, because they are responsible for the contest. It use to be a family show, but it became more and more the adult show, too much nudity, too much controversial performances even satanic and pagan rituals, some performances were better for the RuPaul's show (and I am OK with peoples sexual preferences, but not shown on public TV) . This show is intended to be about music, not cabaret. Now let's talk about the jury and votes. We have witnessed for some years now, winners are picked despite the public vote, but let's be honest the public vote should matter more, because the public watches the show, the public buys tickets for the event, and everything connected to it, also public pays them for their votes, so it's fair the public decides the winner as well. All that has happened with the Eurovision at least last decade, or even longer, made people angry, losing their interest. People are fed up with politics and politically correct behavior we get from this show. We want good music and respectfully made stage performance that the whole family can enjoy watching. Thank you for your videos, I like watching them.
Hmmm, those are so many things mixed together. EBU cannot censor acts too much as this is a common sense of all participated countries. After the edition pass, all members should sit and talk together with a feedback on it. Its not like EBU is UEFA in this way, its different. So many things happened are not directly because of EBU, but because of the countries and individuals approaches. The issue I see, is nothing is deeply reorganised, or refreshed, more likely easy solutions are applied. Will give you example - countries are accused of cheating with juries, but no one is rly punished. It's not communicated. Those things must somehow change, maybe EBU structure towards the contest must change.
About public vote - if we kill this balance, more and more terrible songs will go in. Like football without juries would be without good players in. Already a huge mistake was cancelation of them in semifinals, instead of reformated approach, cancelation. Those are not good solutions and also they are terrible communicated and in this EBU is doing a very wrong job. Thats after is why it became a chaos this year, just escalated to this extend.
@@JanBors I agree with you, they need to reboot the whole thing. Also, the public vote can be easily restricted, or corrected with an algorithm. We really should clean our own broadcasters, and carefully pick our juries as well, but like you sad it's all about communication between all of them.
Автор, как бы не пытался перевирать, война на Украине это ваша война. Устроил кризис на границе с Россией Евросоюз, куда входит твоя Чехия. Саботировал переговоры в апреле 2022 года также Евросоюз. Поэтому обвинить не получится. Можешь рассказывать пропагандистский бред по типу того что говорил Геббельс во второй мировой войне кому угодно, но за правду выдать тебе не удастся. Потому что то что происходит на Украине - это, повторяюсь, ваша война и только ваша. Кстати советую посмотреть интервью Жозепа Борреля CNN, где он говорил что война идёт ради гегемонии запада, а не ради любви к украинцам. И это видео к сожалению на ютубе лишь в единственном экземпляре.
И собственно, в России принят закон против ЛГБТ, поэтому всё равно Россия не будет участником. Неважно что там неадекватное EBU примет.
So you are classical terrorist nation supporter troll. Russia attacked, Russia choses to take lives in war for nothing to exterminate Ukrainians who did nothing to Russia. Congratulate yourself. Do you also believe that earth is flat? Would not be surprised. Bye
@@JanBors террористы сидят в правительстве твоей страны, в Чехии. Как бы ты не оправдывался, не выйдет у тебя сделать Украину добром и жертвой, не выйдет. Потому что это ваша война. И ты бы пригодился там на фронте, иначе "демократия" будет под угрозой. Иди воюй.
I think a lot of the issues, which became a reality in Eurovision this year, have been building up over the years. I've been watching the ESC since 1984, when I was a 5-yo kid, religiously every year. At some point, what was a huge music event to begin with, has shifted to this over the top megalomaniac event, where each year needs to be bigger and better than the previous year. There were no props on stage in the early years, and now everyone has a mountain, a cage, a burning house or a denim egg. There are thousands of led lights, several rehearsals, a pre-show tour...it makes sense that the budget of the ESC is massive and to get all of this done, you need sponsors. I think we should cut down on the gliz and glam a little, and focus on the music, and maybe try to make due with the participation fees from the different countries. Or, if you absolutely must have sponsorships, have them from a variety of businesses, so you won't be so dependent on one sponsor, that you can't disqualify a country supporting a genocide.
If the EBU rules made it impossible for them to ban Israel, they could have had a moment somewhere on the show dedicated to all victims of war and violence. Instead, they erased all signs of Palestine even existing. They erased the Palestinean people.
In 1936, the summer olympics were held in Berlin, and somehow this felt like a similar situation. That is a horrible thing to say.
Which country is doing thst genocide? Imo you dont know what it means. Your post was relevant until this moment. Sorry to say this but learn more about what is the difference between war causalties (and the real numbers, shockingly they are very different than those Hamas numbers) and genocide. Or ban.
What has the Palestinian got to do with ESC ? So why not Myanmar Syria Iran Iraq Sudan ? Who are the Palestinians ?
And why should they do it? It’s a music contest for God’s sake, not a political arena for resolving the world’s conflicts. Palestine is neither an EBU member nor a participating country, so why should there be any mention of it in the contest? Besides, any political gestures or symbols are explicitly prohibited according to the Eurovision rules.
@@JanBors If Eurovision is "apolitical" (which, funnily enough, is the term many Russian people use when you ask them for an opinion on the war in Ukraine, because they are afraid to speak up), then why was Russia banned? Why was Yugoslavia banned in 1993? I'm not trying to say that the terrorist attack by Hamas in October 2023 was in any way justified, but it is quite objectively a known fact at the moment that the way Israel is bombing Gaza on the ground is beyond reason, and, at this point, it is a genocide.
If the active war is not an obstacle to EBU, despite history suggesting otherwise, I get that, even if I'm personally opposed to it. I still think, with two active wars currently on-going in the EBU region (in Israel/Palestine and Ukraine), acknowledging the thousands of innocent victims of these wars, and giving some attention to world peace would have been a nice touch, and might have actually been the kind of compromise that would have guaranteed a peaceful song contest.
I also think it is really tacky, and actual erasure of what is going on, to sanction participants because of something like keffiyeh symbols in someone's nailart or scarf. I believe Loreen had Moroccan Berber symbols in her outfit last year, and no-one batted an eye. I'm pretty sure we've had other signs of people actually existing outside of the EBU reign over the past decades, but for some reason, that is okay? What if someone with Palestinean heritage would want to bring their own background to the stage through their cultural symbols? This kind of denial of the reality we live in is absurd, and quite obviously, strongly influenced by finances.
I watch the ESC since the 70th and I have never saw so much hate violence and offensive behavior ( holland Ireland Greece and the former Swedish winner ) what a shame … politics should have been band in such a fun competition . What has Palestinian Islamist pro Hamas flags and slogans got to do with celebrating music .
This event shouldn’t be a lgbt… event it should be a family event as it was in the beginning . ( vulgarity sex nudity ) WTF ? And the jury mafia must be stoped !
there is no jury mafia, it was just jury this year... we need this, we need revision of all systems it seems. The rest I agree with you more or less.
@@JanBors take off the slices of ham from your eyes … there was a jury mafia since I started to watch the ESC
Man... What happened to Jan Bors.. What the fuck are these takes
He got tired of the “woke left” and went to the extreme opposite direction
what extreme? Now you made me curious :)
@@catherinemullins937 He is like what they call the silent majority, but at least Jan is brave and not silent.