The Rule of 12 - Chipping Tip for Golf
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2009
- Brian Manzella's teaches of the 'Rule of 12' chipping tip for golf. This really works. Check out Brian's forum at www.brianmanzella.com. Check out my blog at 3jack.blogspot.com
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Rule of 12. I love it. 12 minus the club number (e.g 12 - 9 for nine iron = 3 ) tells you how many times further the ball will roll than it will carry. Nine iron will roll 3x further than it will carry.
This, to me, is a far more useful way of thinking about it.
Thanks I needed this comment
Makes the video more understandable at once, and the tip easier to use quickly on the course. Thanks!
This method flat out works. It has transformed my chipping. I’ve had multiple people ask me what has changed with my short game and I explained this method. Best UA-cam golf instructional video I’ve seen and been able to actually apply
Don't know who this instructor is, I give him kudos for giving Runyon credit for this video. So many of today's instructors are using old school teaching without giving due credit.they alter the wording to make people think they thought of it. BTW, the rule of 12 works. I use it all the time.
Mr. Mehoff, I agree!
This tip has been the trick for me to develop "feel" around the green. Played a round over the weekend and almost chipped in twice using this tip and some green reading. It helps to read the carry and roll ratios from the side of the shot, rather than down-the-line. It will be easier to get the right parts of carry and roll.
This improved my chipping immediately. On faster greens though, I use this but instead of Rule of 12 I change it to Rule of 13. Great teacher love his videos.
Best chipping video I’ve seen. Can’t wait to try it.
Excellent teacher and his ideas WORK very well. Thank you!
Great Video Brian...simple to do and understand!
What a simple but great way to work out the club you need to chip with. Gonna try it out tomorrow 👍
That's a great tip. Thanks, take that to the practice green tomorrow. I love it when maths has a practical use in my game 👍
Simple , efficient way to learn the short game. You know he's good when he can talk a execute at the same time. Great job!
Thanks brian miss you bro! Loved playing on Monday in New Orleans back in the day!
The hole was 12 parts from my landing spot, so I simply used my driver to effortlessly float the ball in
After going through a majority of the comments, especially about pace of play you have to realize one thing. After enough practice you'll be able to "eye" the shot and the correct club to use. I've seen more than my share of golfers take more than a minute or two just reading their putts until they execute the shot. This tip is money in my honest opinion. Many times I've been by the 9th hole or 18th hole at my home course and just watch people whack it on the green and be relieved that they're on the dance floor. Not realizing that they may have lengthy putt just to salvage a reasonable score and mess up the one, two or three putts it takes them to hole out. If people actually took the time to work on their short game they'd see their not putting as much pressure on their putts. BTW? I taught for a little over 20yrs so yes I did have the time to watch and play with plenty of those golfers.
An easier way, IMO, is just to stand at your ball and count your steps to the pin. Then go back and pick your landing spot. Pace that off. Divide the total by your landing spot. That’s the number you subtract from 12.
You’re not always going to get a whole number. Say you’ve got a total of 21 paces and a landing zone of 5 paces. That’s 4.25. 12-4 = 8 and if you think about it you’ll see the chip will be a bit short. So make sure you carry your spot. Or if you want to get move your spot so it will result in EXACTLY 4…. 21/4= 5.25. Don’t just carry your previous spot, carry it by a 1/4 pace. And remember you’re just using your pace, not yards or meters.
But as people will tell you, this is still an art. Greens are slow? Use Rule of 11. Downhill? Rule of 13. Thing is, you’ve already been doing these mental calculations. Thing also is you aren’t doing so hot at that or you wouldn’t be watching this. At least here you’re starting off with a SOLID CONCEPT.
Just a brilliant explanation! 👍
Best explanation I’ve seen. Thanks.
This has really cleared up the short game tactics, can't wait to try it out. I wouldn't mind a lesson with this fella either, good post.
Great video Brian Manzella. Excellent explanation. 🏆
Excellent tip and explanation, thanks.
I use this all the time and works like a charm...i can literally pick any target on the green to chip to and have the formula to pick the right club
I changed it up a because tracking how many "parts" of roll and carry is a bit confusing for me...i just take the total number of steps to the hole divided by the total number of steps to my landing area to arrive at my "maguc number"...
Give a try folks!
I spoke about this years ago with my paps. Since we have been out on the course practicing it often with great success getting the ball close with consistency being the key!!!!
Paul Runyans original formula showed that from 3i to 6i the rule of 13 applied and this then changed to a rule of 12 from the 7i to the 9i. Checkout Paul Wilson on the same subject.
Great tip Sir!
You are appreciated.
Thank you for the video! I will practice this rule of 12
Great video. I tried this and the ratio's do depend on where you place the ball in relation to your stance. For example, Brian here and Dave Pelz, as well as Paul Runyan all advocate placing the ball opposite the back foot in your set-up and this does indeed produce the results Brian speaks of. However, many modern teaching pro's such as Chuck Quinton, Andy Proudman and Piers Ward advocate a ball position that is more in the centre of the stance at set-up or even slightly forward to avoid an overly aggressive downswing which chops into the ball. This works but does change the ratios significantly as more loft is created. Both techniques work so maybe golfers should experiment and see which they feel suits them best and which produce the best results.
I just want to ask you as the rules is a ratio the initial distance of carry should be affected the same as the roll. In your experience is the ratio different? Or is it more the carry is more than expected because of loft angle? Im not certain I am clear but as the loft angle changes with the stroke so does the effective bounce angle. Really Im curious because it's har for me to find a place to test this and Im good enough so far using an 8 or 7 with bump and run.
@@aldergate-ca Do what works best for you Dean, but if you get a chance to experiment with the different ball positions you'll see what I mean.
JustJames Will do bro. I’ll update you on the progress.
Thinking outside the box. I like it.
Very well articulated
I can't wait to put this to the test today. I do use different clubs [to chip] but don't have any science behind the selection. I typically choose to flop because I can't count on my roll(short or long). Thanks for the video Brian.
Thank you Brian, excellents tips!
If you want to learn how to chip better, go to the putting green and learn how to putt, when you become a great putter, you won't worry so much about getting 1 foot from the pin, knock in your six footers and all the sudden you are a great chipper. This was great information by the way, enjoyed the video.
Thank you for this. No more guessing where to land a wedge, no more guessing which club to use to run it up. Today I tried what you showed us and it easily saved me 6 strokes, if not more. So many more 1-putts today.
Excellent video!!!
Great video, I use this method cut 5 strokes off my round.
Great, great video. He also reminds me of sal from impractical jokers
This is gold, thanks.
Very well explained
Excellent, thanks!
Chart to reduce steps
Club-Carry:Roll
SW - 1:1
PW- 1:2
9i- 1:3
8i- 1:4
7i- 1:5
6i- 1:6
Another way of figuring the rule of 12 is a 6 iron goes six times the carry. A 5 iron goes 7 times and an 8 iron goes 4 times the carry...9 iron 3 times and the pitching wedge 2 times. Same stuff just easier to figure if on a level green IMO. It works
that is hard asf.
727sky x
When I watched Paul Runyan's chipping video, he used the rule of 13 up to the 6 iron, then rule of 12 from 7 iron to his sand wedge. If manufacturers have made more stronger loft, then it should be rule of 13 or 14, not 12, since the roll will be further compared to higher lofted club sets. Analyzing this, and using rule of 12, for a one part carry and one part roll, it would require 12-1=11, ie a gap wedge. If the green is faster for the same scenario, then it should be a bigger numbered rule, say 13. Therefore 13-1=12= a sand wedge. That's how I understand it. If the greens were slower, then a lower numbered rule should be used, maybe rule 11. Same scenario, 11-1=10=PW. Practice and training will set your datum rule number.
@Zoneofgolf That is a VERY appropiate question. Just have a look at videos from Pete Cowen or James Sieklemann. That is good short gametechnic!
Zone of golf
great tip thanks
I tried this and my round took three days.
Determine carry length, say 5 yards, then determine roll length, say 15 yards. Divide 15 by 5 and get 3. Take 12 - 3 to get 9, so use a 9-iron. If roll length length is shorter than carry length then you don't have enough green to work with, so maybe carry to short of the green or a flop shot.
Thanks , thats how you are determining the roll length to subtract from 12?
From 100 yards and in, I have ALWAYS used my 60° wedge. I am very good at getting the ball within 4' if I am around the green but this explanation of how to pitch (or bump-and-run) has never been explained to me. I was always under the impression you always use a club you are comfortable with (aka 8 iron) and just adjust accordingly. The way he explains it, this makes SO much more sense. I will definitely need to try this out moving forward. Keep in mind, I am a 4 handicap.
you're an idiot... nobody hits a 60 degree 100 yards... maybe your 52
Levi Lane hate to reply to someone so late but I hit a 64• about 85 yards stock shot, so there are those that would accomplish that, but that would mean needing exceptional swing speed.. however this is UA-cam land so everyone is tiger woods here
@@levilane2969 Seve Ballesteros use 60 degree to hit 100 yards. See his short game video.
Completely at odds with other vids I’ve watched!
Some adjustments will have to be made according to turf conditions. If you're playing in August and your iron shot creates a puff of dust when it hits the green and runs off, you're dealing with harder turf that will generate more roll. If you hit an iron shot approach on a rainy day , and it plugs two feet short of the green, you're dealing with softer turf that will generate less roll.
Also, the clubhead-shaft combo in a given iron / plus the type of ball used / may cause variations in rollout. For "standard" turf conditions, a Rule of 11 works best for my former iron set. Rule of 12 often left me several feet short.
I'm a bit out of practice on this, and have not tried it with my new irons. Lots of rain this spring, so short pitches more reliable than long runs over damp greens.
This is brilliant
😂🤣😂🤣 Reminded me of my maths teacher, his mouth kept moving but all I heard was yardy yardy ya
🤣🤣🤣 me too.
If your landing spot is not level I find it can wreak havoc on the ratios for the more lofted clubs.
53 years old. Golfing since I was 6. Great advice.
88 years old. Golfing since I was 85. Great advice.
This is good advice for walkers, i.e. players with their bag at their side at all times. If you are in a cart, your bag and all those various lofts are FAR away. You end up stuck with one or a couple of wedges in your hands and always making uncomfortable compromises for chips.
Great point !! no one ever talks about that,do they? I'm sure the time keepers won't mind if you sprint back to the cart to fetch your 6 iron.
David Blanchard When you pull up to the green, it's easy enough to guesstimate the carry to roll. If it looks like it's going to be 1 part carry to 3 parts roll, just take that club (let's say a 9 iron) as well as the one above (8) and below (PW) as well as your LW just in case there's a situation such as the lie which will prevent a stock chip.
+David Blanchard
It isn't that hard. When you arrive at the the green you should be able to make a close guess as to what club is needed. Carry 3 clubs in that range and you will be fine. If not you can always adjust the spot to make the shot fit what clubs you have by adjusting your target slightly.
Its a walking game.
I will incorporate this into my game because I need all the help I can get :D I vary clubs at times for chipping so the "12" rule seems to apply to my game.....I hope
truly the "good fix'
That's great if your hitting on a level green. What about if you're hitting straight downhill on a green? Or even straight uphill to the pin??? I would think at that point my rule of 12's would go right out the window!
What about 48 or 52 degree wedges? Good video👍⛳️
Also there’s nothing wrong with using a 3-5 iron as a putter just off the green! Especially when the flag is quite close!... a technique used many years ago and can be vary effective to those who ground or stab there wedge chips often!
Crap I was looking for a chipping lesson and ended up with a math test........and I didnt study......
I'd assume you could easily judge the "rule of" number on the practice green before a round by doing a little experiment. Use 12 as a basis and if you're long or short, adjust as needed.
One thing I'd like to know though is whether you'd assign higher iron numbers to wedges, e.g. 8i, 9i, 10i (PW at 45 degrees), 11i (AW at 50 degrees), 12i (SW at 54degrees), 13i (LW at 58 degrees) etc?
blimey you made it sound so much more complex than it is. divide the roll by the pitch and take the result from 12.
this is like a cross between george constanza and frank caliendo doin robert deniro teaching how to chip
I'd be interested to know his linguistic influences. two parts Jersey, one part Kentucky roll?
I use something similar,
If my
pitching wedge flies 50% and rolls 50%
then my sand/W will fly 60% and roll 40% and my 9iron will fly 40% and roll 60% on the same distance shots. that helps me not needing to fine a safe spot if I'm more than 20y off the green.and the longer the green the better its works.
Pitching wedge with 45 degrees of loft, of course
Brian thanks for this post. This works on greens that are not elevated, out course has about 90% of its greens elevated. from 4 or 5 ft to much more. Now what do you do since this makes your clubs less lofted and you have to chip further to get your ball on the green?
Very good question! I often play at club Cuernavaca in Mexico and the greens there are elevated too, like little hills, which I find ridiculous! any way, you have to fly your way to the green with a 56 or more, no rule of 12 there only option is to parachute your way to those greens and learn back spin.
For clarification what if you carry 3 wedges plus a pitching wedge. How would this work then? Interested in how it would be adapted.
The rule of twelve, as described in the video! This rule is for chipping around the green. You would only chip with a sandwedge if the pin was very close to the fringe and you for some reason wouldn´t choose to putt it (for example, sprinkler head in the way). The number of wedges does not matter.
Interesting .... but clearly these ratios vary a lot depending on the speed of the greens and the loft with which one hits a chip; that is, you can chip high OR low with every club. When I tested this out, ultimately I determined that by far for me the BEST approach is to just pick two clubs to chip and pitch with around the green. I use a gap wedge and an 8-iron. It helped me to think in terms of picking a landing spot and being able to imagine roll out, but I find on the course I rely mostly on "feel" rather than trying to mentally calculate how many total feet, what fraction of that will be chip v. roll out, etc.
Just saw this for the first time.
You seem to have the product and the ability to explain so why did you stop producing content ?
This is a ripped recording. The person who posted it has nothing to do with the people who produced it.
Use the putter from where you were .
Don't forget, you can also putt with a hybrid,in this rule I guess that's where a 3 or 4 iron would be used ie 8 parts roll.
Its good as a general rule...and it works..but you better practice a lot on the course before u rely on it..you will eventually tweak the math suited to your game...
How do you pick your safe spot if you don’t know which club you’re going to use? Is it just the closest point on the green from where you are?
Per Video, safe spot is the point 1 Yard onto the green closest from where your ball is.
But very good information
This rule works well...on a flat green with a flat lie. That rarely occurs on most courses so the rule is shot to hell when you hit the course. It's a great tip and a great starting point, but like a lot of golf "tips", not necessarily very practical in a real game.
@johnny penso Well, every situation is different like you said. You need to think of this like a putt once the ball starts rolling. From the landing spot, you should think how you would hit the putter to sink the ball in. Once you get how much more you have to hit the ball beyond the hole, then you calculate the ratio again. The chances are you won't sink the ball in from the chipping more than likely, so getting the approximate ratio is more than enough.
I wonder if it would work to use one club less loft if the ball must roll uphill, and one club more loft if the roll will be downhill.
@@unclespeller6568 Every green is so unique that no general rule can work. You have to figure out each situation on the fly. The key takeaway here is to get the ball on the ground and on the green as fast as possible most of the time and use your experience to gauge the roll.
Well, I have found that the rule does work for me, even on sloping greens.
The trick is to not think in terms of where the pin actually is, but rather how far I need the ball to roll to stop at the pin. For example, if the pin is uphill from me, I might hit as though I want the ball to stop 6 feet past the pin (if I was on a flat green). However, on the uphill green, the slope would slow the roll down and the ball might stop only 1 foot past. Same as for a putt; you need to putt 'harder' uphill and 'softer' downhill to get the ball to go the same distance as on the flat.
Use that to determine your INTENDED roll distance, and then work your ratios off of that.
The tricky bit I have found is to use a different base ratio for different conditions, since roll is faster in the dry and slower in the wet.
Use 12 as your base calculation marker on a normal day.
If it is wet, you want the ball to roll more, so you should use 11 as your base number, which would give you a lower lofted club, and more roll.
If it is dry, then use 13 as your base. You'll get more roll naturally on a dry green, so you need to counter that with a higher lofted club to stop it sooner.
Uncle seller, yes, for uphill chip use one less club. One club higher loft for down hill chip.
I have one question applying this "rule" - what will you do if the distance between ball to where you want to land (say 20 feet) is FURTHER than from the landing spot to the cup (say 10 feet)? Please share your thought, thank you.
The rule does not apply, you have to wedge, either lazy back spin or normal, depending on the pin's position! And just for the record, I think the rule still applies but since it will give you a 1 to 1 or less proportion it will give you 11 or 12 as a result!
1 part carry 1/2 part roll = 11 1/2 club. So something like a 56 or 60 degree wedge
It can still apply if the ground between you and the green is not soft and or thick. Pick where you want to land it and do the math. The whole point is to keep the ball low and let it run. With practice you'll see it's much easier to control than hitting it high.
why do i feel like i got hustled, and got great advice at the same time??? LOL good video. It was funny when the guy almost made the chip shot with the 6i
How does this work if the pin is on a an uphill or downhill slope?
you'd need to factor in more roll i guess?
Good logic going to tyr it
excellent method but i do wonder about when the pin is close to the rough. Say you're five paces back and the pin is two paces on the green...
So if one part is 4 yds. to landing spot. You then divide the steps from there to the hole by 4 and subtract that number from 12?
Yeah I think so.
For example, carry is 4yds roll out is 12yds, 12÷4=3 then 12 -3=9 use your 9 iron
On top of that I would guess that after your 9 iron you could say that
10 = PW
11 = GW (Gap wedge)
12= SW
So if you have,
4yds carry and 4yds roll out 4 ÷ 4=1 then 12 - 1=11 so use a GW
That's how I understand it to be.
Would this work?
There's a quick, easy way to do the math.
1. Pace your self from the ball to the 'safe zone.'
2. Then pace the entire distance from the safe zone to the cup.
3. Then, you go #2 / #1
For instance. Let's say the pace from the ball to the say zone is 5 paces. Then the total distance from the safe zone to the cup is 15 paces.
15 / 5 = 3
12-3 = 9 iron
Paces to safe zone 15
Paces from safe zone to flag 3. What club?
Still playing with Arnold palmer clubs
Is there an app for this ?!?
I like the idea of hitting it to the spot and letting it roll... the measuring... I'll wing it.
What if the greens are rolling a 12 compared to a 8 or 9?
I thought I was the only one who read Paul Runyon's books...lol and Paul would have a used a 4 iron and a putting stroke....
toe down and elbows out with a reverse overlap on the grip
Visual learner here. This needs to be in a table.
but you do have a spelling problem. Stop being so judgemental.@@oldaccount59minus1
Awsome
Interesting.
I used to chip with my 3,5,8,w,sw,and lob with my old Ping Eye II clubs, but now my 5,8,w,sw,glide with my Ping 400 clubs. My wedge flys half and rolls half. Glide to lob it close when I don't have much green to work with or 40%, 4 yard fly and 60%, yard roll. Or open the face and throw it to within a yard. 8 iron fly 1/3, 2 yards roll 2/3, 4 yards. 5 iron 20% 2 yards fly 80%,8 yards roll. I can chip in with a 5 iron from 30 ft as easy as putt 30 feet. Using this formula helps me get the 40+ft chips close almost every time. To hit par to a player that can reach the par 5's in 2 one has to make 22 mistakes. Perfect drive +perfect 2nd shot set's up birdie limit the mistakes. A thin 5 iron chip will still be close. Blade a 30 ft chip with a wedge or more lofted club and you are over the green.
Good stuff. But first you take the distance of the ball to the hole. Then pace out the landing area to the hole. Take the square root of the distance. Divide by the cosine of the relative angle. Read the green for break and grain (Spider-Man style). Only after you do that the twosome behind you will hit their ball into you. So you will just pick up your ball and go to the next hole before they ask to play through.....bwahaaahaaa
So how does one, using this math trick, arrive at when to use a PW, a GW or a SW for chipping? I get how to determine what use from a 9 iron on down to say, a 6 iron, but beyond that …
10,11 &12 iron.
I beg you pardon I was thinking of James Sieckmann
I used this method and failed math.. Cause 3 minus 12 is -9.. great lesson though.. Can't wait to try it
This is great but I need help with the math. Lol. What if I’m 3 yds off green and hole is 10 yds from 1 yd landing spot? So 4 parts carry? but not sure how many parts roll. 🤦🏻♂️
The carry is always 1 part. It's the distance of the carry that determines the distance of 1 part. Then figure how many parts from landing spot to tee.
I get it but it's the stroke I have trouble with.
Great video but a lot of it also has a lot to do with green speed
This may sound stupid but this system confuses me. I get the first chip - 6 parts role - 12-6=6 iron.
Moving back he is roling the ball the exact same distance once the ball gets to the tee but says it's now 2-3 parts role - the 6 parts of role should not change since the tee or pin did not move - so how does he come up with the nine iron for the longer shot?
Thanks
Richard
i think he uses the same spot for the landing and does ball to spot then spot to hole ratio. then subtract from 12 .
Since the formula is to subtract the ratio from 12. For the first one, the ratio is 1:6 or 6. 12 minus 6 gives you 6, use 6 iron to fly to safe spot. For the 2nd shot the ratio is 1:3 or 3, calculated by subtracting 3 from 12, which equals 9. Use 9 iron to fly ball to safe spot.
the value of 1 part roll has changed. In the first example 1 part roll = 2 yards, in the second example 1 part roll equals 4 yard. the distance from the tee to the pin did not change, the distance of 1 unit of roll did.
The parts carry and parts roll change simultaneously, the value of part roll changes in the 2nd example. Once your carry distance changes, the value of part roll has change with it.
the formula is simply 12-(roll/carry)
@Golf Sidekick Have you seen this, thought you might find it interesting? (not that you need it, your a Baus !)
he needed 4 yards carry and 12 yards of roll: that's 1 part carry 3 parts roll.. so 12-3 = 9 iron. if he needed 5 yards of carry and 20 yards of roll he would need 20/5 = 4 parts of roll => 12 - 4 = 8 iron.
thanks dude ! now i UNDERSTAND ! i was gettin a little confused watching him. MAY YOU ALWAYS 1 PUTT!!
q0m4
You subtracted 9-3 in the first example but divided 20/5 in the second. So which us it?
12-(roll/carry)
@@craigscott7315 I believe the key is to reduce the roll/carry fractionally to get to a single equivalent unit ("parts") of carry (1ft, 1yd, etc)...SO 5 part carry + 20 part roll is mathematically reduced to 1 part carry + 4 part roll (5/5=1, 20/5=4) ==> which is the "4" in 12-4 = 8 iron.
How does it work if the part roll is shorter than the part carry
Then you have to land it in the fringe, putt it, or some kind of pitch shot (lob wedge). It really doesn't work if the roll part is shorter. Make sense?
The scenario you’re asking about, where the distance needed to carry is longer the distance the ball will roll out calls for a “pitch” shot. This video deals with chipping.