The Crazy Story of Gotham's Accidental Joker - Video Essay
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Fan film: • Video
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Stuff I (probably) stole from Wikipedia:
The fictional superhero Batman, who appears in American comic books published by DC Comics, has appeared in various films since his inception. Created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger,[1] the character first starred in two serial films in the 1940s: Batman and Batman and Robin. The character also appeared in the 1966 film Batman, which was a feature film adaptation of the 1960s Batman TV series starring Adam West and Burt Ward, who also starred in the film. Toward the end of the 1980s, the Warner Bros. studio began producing a series of feature films starring Batman, beginning with the 1989 film Batman, directed by Tim Burton and starring Michael Keaton. Burton and Keaton returned for the 1992 sequel Batman Returns, and in 1995, Joel Schumacher directed Batman Forever with Val Kilmer as Batman. Schumacher also directed the 1997 sequel Batman & Robin, which starred George Clooney. Batman & Robin was poorly received by both critics and fans, leading to the cancellation of Batman Unchained.[2]
Batman has also appeared in multiple animated films, both as a starring character and as an ensemble character. While most animated films were released direct-to-video, the 1993 animated feature Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, based on the 1990s Batman: The Animated Series, was released theatrically. Having earned a total of U.S. $2,407,708,129 the Batman series is the fifth-highest-grossing film series in North America.[5]
Gotham is an American crime drama television series developed by Bruno Heller, based on characters published by DC Comics and appearing in the Batman franchise, primarily those of James Gordon and Bruce Wayne. Heller and Danny Cannon, who directed the pilot, are executive producers. The series stars Ben McKenzie as the young Gordon, and premiered on Fox on September 22, 2014. In May 2018, Fox renewed the series for a fifth and final season of 12 episodes, which is set to premiere on January 3, 2019.
Originally the series would have relied only on Gordon's early days with the Gotham City Police Department, but the series subsequently included the Wayne character and the origin stories of several Batman villains, including Penguin,[4] Riddler,[4] Catwoman,[4] Poison Ivy,[5] Scarecrow,[6] Mr. Freeze,[7] Hugo Strange,[8] and Solomon Grundy.[9]
Jerome Valeska is a fictional character created by producer and screenwriter Bruno Heller for the television series Gotham, and played by actor Cameron Monaghan. The character acts as a tribute to the Batman supervillain the Joker,[1] as well as exploring the mythology of the character.[2]
Cameron Monaghan has garnered critical praise for his performance, particularly from actor Mark Hamill, who voiced the Joker in the DC Animated Universe.[3]
Jeremiah Valeska is a mentally deranged and dangerous terrorist, criminal and murderer. He is also the more intelligent and more dangerous identical twin brother of the anarchistic cult leader Jerome Valeska. After his brother's death, Jeremiah takes over the role of main antagonist for the final arc of Season Four.
Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
#batman #gotham #dceu #dccomics #cameronmonaghan
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Jerome Valeska - Gotham's Accidental Joker
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Folks I'm fully aware that we see Heath Ledger's Joker sans makeup for a brief moment, but my point remains that he's pretty well hidden, still disfigured and we still know nothing of his backstory.
Very well made video, thanks boss, gotta watch Gotham all over again now :)
the fact that jeremiah is sane and not insane like jerome is a problem to you,wtf
THE JOKER ISNT INSANE,if he is insane,the writer doesnt know the character at all,he just tricks everyone into thinking is insane so that he sent to asylum instead of blackgate where he would get the death penalty
Love your vids, I don’t always agree with your ideals, but it’s interesting to see someone else’s perspective
All the theories about Ledger's pre-Joker life are that he's an ex-soldier suffering PTSD with anarchic tendencies. Think Rutger Hauer's character from The Hitcher (1986). I'll always prefer Jack Napier's backstory.
You ever heard of the 2-hour movie from the TV series. They used to make them. Say after 5-?? years, the Gotham movie comes out and guess who is the main villian is. another thing the Joker movie is going to be a One-Shot movie with J. Pheonix. if they can't find another joker for the big screen Cameron would be perfect, better than that other guy from The suicide squad. I was very satisfied what they did with Gotham better than what you had to say. Oh by the way why suchhh a serioussss essayyyyy. He he he ho ho ho, and "I thought my jokes were bad". Uh never mind.
Gotham : (has a guy act like joker but calls him Jerome )
WB: seems legit
Anderson Rodriguez Gotham: he will have his face cut out like in the comics and he has a twin which will have white skin and green hair
WB: no no he can’t look like the joker
Gotham: he has purple hair
WB: perfect
Gotham: ok since we will have Batman in the last scene can we have the joker since he fell in the chemicles
WB: yes but no joker name drop or his likeness
Gotham: ok he will be disfigured and have a few stands of hair
WB: yes
Jeremiah*
Gotham: And this is Jeremiah. He dressed like clown. He is evil and mad. And he is Bruce Wayne arch enemy. And he falls in chemicals.
WB: This is fine.
He wasn't the villain Gotham deserved, but the villain it needed...
The real.villain they needed was Dent.
Other way around.
The villain it deserved
@@datniggakermit5287 depends on point of view
Tao Jones T.jones Harvey Dent... can we trust him?
WB: No Joker!
Gotham: *throws in Joker without calling him Joker* you said no “Joker” this is Jerome
he is the Jokerome
"call me Jack."
Some guy huh?
Jeremiah*
@James asdfghjkl Actually I left one comment bcs I was starting to doubt myself ;) I just assumed everyone meant the latest version of 'Joker' in Gotham which is Jeremiah.
In the end, Jerome was both the savior and the killer of Gotham.
In a way that's a funny twist the Joker would love.
Comment
Comment
TheBrownTown007 actually Disney was the killer of Gotham cause they bought fox and Gotham being a dc property they more then likely felt it should end before Disney killed it later
@@kevin10001 Evidence?
No he wasn't, he killed people, stop making "deep" comments
🃏 Well, every deck of cards has 2 jokers 🃏
Good point
And also best comment ever
Every deck I have seen had 3 Jokers.
@@MatiZ815 no theres only 2 Jokers your probably getting that confused with the Jack card
@@TheGhostly-Reaper141 No. 3 Jokers in every deck I own.
Remember, he wasn't allowed to be the Joker, because Jared Letto Joker. Never Forget.
I m a n i d e a
@@BlackbirdSJ i m toououoouiio
We all remember
Jared Leto was a joke, not a joker.
Liar.
Gotham's Joker
Is a mixed bag that was pushed left and right because of legal issue.
But Gotham's Jerome
Was amazing and helped carry this show.
Agreed. He could have still become the joker in the future but should have been left alone as he was in the show.
Since Gotham took place at least a decade before Bruce becomes Batman, we didn't need a full blown Joker in the show, but a type of origin for him as Jerome would have been perfect for the direction the show should have went.
Nah not carry it because the Penguin was really really good,the best penguin ever in my opinion
@@bekim7878 yeah the penguin was good, but he isn't "Joker". People mostly tune to see a joker when Jerome came into the picture
@@bekim7878 The original comment said : helped carry the show
How WB thinks people could confuse Jared Leto, Joaquin Phoenix, and somehow associate them with Cameron Monaghan's joker and not be senile is beyond me.
Same here.
They think viewers are brain dead
Tbf there are people who hear the name joker and instantly think that evey single interation of him is in the same universe (my parents being one or these said people) for whatever reason.
They didn't seem to be worried about confusing movie and tv Flash. I don't get it.
@@lukecarmichael1588 movie flash came out after TV flash, and the whole tv show revolves around the flash, whereas batman has multiple antagonists, so it makes more sense they put these restrictions on Gotham and not flash. Plus TV Show flash makes more revenue than movie flash, so even if people do confuse the two WB would still make money.
ONE THING IS FOR SURE!!! Cameron Monaghan did an AWESOME JOB!!!
“Batman has the best rogue gallery ever!”
“Yes, that’s true... but let’s use the Joker for the thousand time again”
“Good idea”
Well honestly we didn't need a full blown joker in the show because of the time the show took place, but at some point we needed to get some kind of origin for him in the show. Not to mention that since Joker is Batman's biggest rouge he had to used in some way in the show.
He's the main fucking villain. Of course he's gonna be used.
No one's saying you can't do a Batman story without him, but he's still a huge piece in the Batman mythos.
@@lordvika2526 I disagree.
@@jturner2577 so a show based on the origin stories of Bruce Wayne becoming Batman and all his entire cast of rogues origins needs to have a full blown Joker, when it's because of an adult Batman that the joker gets created? I mean it's litterly impossible for the joker to be there before batman
@@shadowprince101 this is true that he is a large part of the Batman history but the way Gotham first set up the Joker character was perfect for what the show was doing. Showing us the mythos of Batman and his rogues , show us their Origins and what drove them to be who they were when we seen them in the movies/comics.
So just showing is the spirit of the joker and pointing at that character to evolve into the joker we know is perfectly fine in a show about origins, because to be honest, it was an adult Batman that creates the Joker to begin with, so without an actual Batman their can't be a Joker
It would be really great to see Cameron play a fully fledged joker in a movie
Jordan Duggan Desperately want to see this happen.
Hell yeah.
He might get a spinoff TV show
Mabey in Netflix live action batman show with 5 seasons each with 25 episodes and joker in 7 episodes of each season totaling to a # of 35 episodes devoted to him with a design of Jerome before his face got cut off with green hair, pale skin, and red lips and the 2019 Joker uniform just the red is now purple and the yellow is now green with a nice green bow tie.
Gotham: *creates character as closely as possible to the Joker wothout calling it that*
WB: What? No wait, that's illegal!
Gotham:....but we didn’t say his names j0ker
WB: DAMMIT! We shoulda been more specific
The Nerd Terminator /TNT *Joker
No green hair unfortunately.
Just bring the actor back. Replace Leto with him.
Yes
Agreed
+1
Fr
Jerome is honestly one of the best Jokers considering he wasn't aloud to actually be the joker at full
your grammar sucks, help!
Big Vibes Gay Nights stfu
@@shunclark596 i think hes talking about the jacksfilms show ygs
Jerome was like heath
Jeremiah was like nicholson
No, other way around
Jerome and Jeremiah are just Jerome and Jeremiah.
Jeremiah was more inspired by the Dark Knight Returns' Joker
Funny, I don't remember Heath laughing or smiling that much.
@@darkaoshi27 Yup, so he's more like Jeremiah, who's a criminal genius. Nicholson's Joker was pretty intelligent too, but Ledger's Joker is the most intelligent cinematic Joker, even outsmarting the World's Greatest Detective.
i feel pretty bad for cameron, he’s such a fantastic actor and he genuinely brought such a fresh and wonderful take while playing Jerome and Jeremiah, and yet he got fucked over with the legal arguments during this show. it would be amazing for cam to get a chance to actually play the joker because he blew everyone away
srs, he deserves way more recognition
I actually really love the idea of having Jerome "die" in a chemical vat without ever referencing him again.
😂
Because then that way it could be either and that would be epic for the viewers
That would've been awesome .
They really should have stuck with Jerome all the way to the end of the show.
Ya
Agreed
Jerome was the best
Loved him just kinda liked the second guy
I liked the end result of him tho
I liked jeremiah too... like two interpretations of the joker on the same show
Absolute masterpiece. I love Gotham, (I know, I know, unpopular opinion) it has great actors, a great plot, and origin story. Cameron did an astonishing job at pulling out the Joker from the comics, onto the movie. I love how he wanted to combine Heath Ledger’s Joker, and Mark Hamill’s into one, beautiful *masterpiece.*
I can see the dialog between WB and their audience:
"Well, you want the Joker? We have the Joker, look at Jared Leto. What do you mean better Joker? There is no better Joker, we have the only live action Joker there is."
And after watching the Gothem they got an idea:
"Hey guys, you want Joker origin story? Yea, it's a shame there isn't one, I know. Well, we are making one, look here, this is Joaquin Phoenix."
Cue the audience throwing eggs and tomatoes.
Warner bros is now disappointing me in the comic industry, the joker is one of the famous Batman characters ever in his own rights and their poor choices is what led to their DC cinematic universe downfall...I know that there’s now some better dceu movies, but this was one of their horrible mistakes that they have made...I’m gonna move on, pretend their little selfish actions of not sharing the joker rights didn’t exist (because if I’m going to be honest, this could’ve gave them a bonus, on their part and this could give Gotham the green to GO...😡wtf,WB?!...just wtf?!) and keep an eye out for their other films, just hoping that they don’t make the same mistake again....😡hopefully.
Phoenix will be the best Joker.
@@PurpleColonel I hope so
So sad!
I think the problem was everything was already in motion. They are going to need a real Joker movie eventually. Monahan is going to out there for a long time.
I used to prefer Jerome's Joker, we watched him from the beginning and saw his downward spiral into madness but Jeremiah's gives me chills. Jerome despite laughing manically and had showman ship didn't enjoy himself for long periods of time like the Joker did, he was a victim of abuse after all, he was a sick miserable person and you can see this when he reflects on his past, he was a maniac who just wanted to cause suffering and show off how much he's achieved. Jeremiah however had vision and, thanks to the toxins his brother used on him, was constantly happy. I like both but Jeramaih is the more logical choice.
Cameron tried to create a masterpiece performance with awful material the writers gave him. He earned my respect simply for that
In a way, I kind of wanted to somehow see both Jerome and Jeremiah's personalities combined into one. With Jerome's unhinged insanity and Jeremiah's more cold, calculating side, that would be the Joker right there. The Valeska brothers depict two sides of the same Joker card, so to speak.
*I got told a long time ago, about 20 comments up there --^, that there are always 2+ jokers in a deck*. *;D*
@@jackrobinson9403 2, not 2+. The version with 3 Jokers is specifically for a game called German Rummy and the version with 6 jokers is by Zwickern which is for a fishing card game. The official standard version of card games for games like poker, but also games inspired by card games like Rummikub ALWAYS comes with two jokers. So it makes a whole lot of sense for the Joker to have been a twin.
@@inferiorinferno8859 touché
Also it seems I play German rummy with 2 decks then o.O not sure if I used 6 or 3 jokers tho
Whatever it was, that scene from the joker first laugh in the police station was epic, downright awesome
Jeroma was fun-- but you really think no one was watching it for Penguin and Riddler?
Because I most certainly enjoyed those two more. Although their stories tended to have them swing far too wildly and then reel all the way back instead of a slow burn into their darker aspects.
They were really good when they came into their criminal prime, but then the whole Penguin mayor with Riddler as the running mate, just calling each other by their normal names thing was kinda dumb, them doing things that would want them to kill the other yet nothing happening, and all of a sudden helping the good guys was what disengaged me from the pair.
@@spartacussmith7070 all examples of plot points from past comics tho. Can't really blame Gotham for staying true to Penguin and Riddlers budding friendship when it did technically exist outside that show lol
I loved the Riddler which is why season 3 is my favourite, as it shown him at his best
I may have started for Jerome but oswald and Ed made me stay once he died the first time
It’s the number one ship in the show some people literally only watched for them
Primrose: WB, can we get 🃏?
WB:no we have 🃏 at home
🃏at home: suicide squad's joker
TRUEEE
I feel like Jerome would like to be addressed as "a violation of an agreement" for some reason
Cameron was basicially the Joker, Now's he's a Jedi it would be perfect if he could have also been Carnage.
He has everything needed, a good career, good looks, and alot of talent.
He would make a perfect carnage
I mean we do see Joker's real face in Dark Knight when he shoots while disguising with police costume.
isn’t that the scitzo from Arkham he had working for him. I haven’t seen it in a long time but i’m almost certain you’re talking about a different actor/character.
VexusFrost no the one that suddenly turns and shoots is indeed joker without makeup.
That schizophrenia guy didn't shoot in that scene.
@@RiasatSalminSami I watched the scene youre totally right, has the scars and everthing haha
VexusFrost he blended in so well that most of us didn't notice on our first watch lol.
I thick he just Forgot that scene
Cameron Monaghan was the best joker as Jerome and Jeremiah. He can't beat Health but Cameron didnt take this role way too seriously like the others. Cameron truly is one of the best underrated actors out there
07:35 "and we never get to see his true face"
That's not entirely true, there is a scene in the Dark Knight where we actually do see the Joker's face without makeup.
I was thinking that when I heard him say it too.
ARealCupcake I thought the same thing! Thank you!
Unless that was make-up OVER his make-up...because it's Joker.
He had makeup over his makeup
Was thinking the same thing!
I don't understand why basically everyone hates Jeremiah he's my favorite Valeska and one of my most favorite characters in the entire series.
I just thought of something. When you buy a pack of cards you get 2 jokers in it and there was Jerome and Jeremiah in Gotham.
gotohellaaron smart human made smart comment. Good job.
gotohellaaron -And they’re twins too!
gotohellaaron 200 iq
Someone also pointed out once that Mark Hamill's name has Arkham in it. mARK HAMill.
oh wow i never thought of that
I actually re watched Gotham recently and discovered I enjoy Jeremiah Valeska soo much more than I remembered idk why but his performance in season 5 is probably my favourite form Cameron in the series
Primrose: I’m gonna say the J word
WB: THAT’S AGAINST THE CONTRACT YOU CAN’T SAY THE J WORD
Primrose: Nah I’m gonna say it
WB: S T O P
Primrose: You can’t stop me now
WB: *Y A M E R O*
Primrose: Jok-
Bro, say the N word.
Johnny Haigs
National Healthcare
That’s all joker wanted :(
Enter the jekor. erome is the jekor.
In a way the Valeska Bros. are the perfect joker. Not Jokers, just the perfect joker.
always 2 jokers in a deck of cards
Joker 2019 “wait till they get a load of me”
I literally fell in love with jerome the first time he appear in the serie, he was such a good character and his backstory was really good
Cameran Monogham is an amazing Joker actor that got caught in a huge mess.
I'm a big fan of the concept that The Joker isn't crazy at all, just a perfectly sane psychopath who knows exactly what he's doing and is mostly just putting on an act and exaggerating to throw people off and keep getting put in Arkham.
That's why I actually loved TF out of Jeremiah in that later half of season 4 and all... Buuut then they kinda dropped the ball in season 5 and made him crazy anyway cause "HE WUZ 2 SERIOUS HE NAHT LIEK DA JOKUR" even though they were clearly going for a more cold and calculating Dark Knight Returns/Batman#1 in 1940 type of Joker.
Yeah its why i preffer Jerome. I loved Jeremiah but then they decided to take the crazy route they failed both with the appearance and they didn't capture the crazy all too well.
Jerome was a crazy lunatic sociopath from the start and was a much better showman.
"perfectly sane psychopath"
What a huge oxymoron
@@amp4105 Psychopathy is not counted as a mental disorder, therefore not insane.
@@hanz2904 Same.
the writing was a little messy in ss4 and ss5 tbh
While from a writing perspective Gotham was an absolute mess, with them picking up and dropping characters/storylines at the drop of a hat, it also gave us perhaps some of the best live action interpretations of Bruce Wayne, Selina Kyle, Oswald Cobblepott, James Gordon, and dozens of other Batman characters that we may ever get outside of the comics/animated media. And for all its faults, their numerous interpretations of the Joker have allowed a lot more freedom for Cameron Monaghan to explore (allowing a broad range of Jokers with emphasis on different aspects of his character), but for the audience to get to choose which one they consider to be legitimate. While I think the ending was somewhat lackluster and felt more obligatory than earned, I thought they paid tribute to the Dark Knight Returns, and the relationship between Batman and the Joker in a very interesting way, with the Joker definitely knowing who his Dark Knight is in this timeline (along with Gordon and Selina) but with Batman's first real public outing being taking down the Joker and saving the future Batgirl (who I really hope never has to go through the Killing Joke because I cannot imagine what that would do to James, Barbara, and Lee in this timeline). And in the end, we got something truly special that says a lot about characters we love and if an adaptation can do that, it succeeds in my book.
Seriously. I was never a Bruce Wayne/ Batman person until I watched gotham, but Mazouz's performance really sold it for me
Seriously though there’s no sense to why they couldn’t use it, FOX want to invest those terrible live actions films over Cameron Monaghan’s joker.....god they forced Gotham to miss an opportunity.
Fox has nothing to do with Batman movies. Learn the difference between studios, networks, and production companies.
Warner Bros. Not Fox.
I have to say: I kinda like Gothams Joker, has it problems? Yes, it does, but to be completly honest I think Jeremiah was a better candiate in a way than Jerome. Ok: Hear me out! The thing is always what you as a person see in the Joker. I always liked the Joker the most in a pure contrast to Batman, to be HIS enemy. Jerome, as funny and interesting as he was, was not a real personal foil for Bruce, at least not really from his side until Season 3 and 4. And the thing with that was that he wasnt interested in him because he was interesting, at least not really, he wanted to kill him because he wanted the do it from Season 2 onwards. Yeah you can argue there is more of a dynamic there since their season 3 showdown, but I would say: For Bruce, yes totally, for Jerome? Not really.
Jeremiah, as half assed introduced as he was, was set up as a personal foil to Bruce, who was capable to be as skilled as Jerome in many ways. But differently. And even though Season 5 was problematic, i have to say: Its really great that Jeremiahs whole plan in the end worked. At the end of Season 4 he said: Gotham falls, we rise.
And even though the way of Bruce had questionable decisions, both of them have been transformed into something more than before. Jeremiah became the Joker ( or whatever) and Bruce became the Dark Knight. And as short as the final encounter between the two was, you could see Jeremiahs exictement when he saw Bruce as the person who rose up from the ashes of Gotham.
And after all: I think thats messed up but also fucking cool. And in that way I think Jeremiah was better for Bruces storyline in that regard. They couldve changed Jeromes storyline to fit this personal foe for Bruce, but Jerome was never that. He was truly an agent of chaos, and thats fine. But when it comes to the Batman-mythologie i am in the place that the relationship between Batman and the Joker is the key. And with Bruce and Jeremiah it was really really good. Just think about it: Bruce funded this guy, he gave him the power to create No Mans Land.
And it has to account for something that the Jokers in Gotham created each other. Jeremiah blackmailed Jerome and Jerome unleashed Jeremiah with the Spray and they even a made a hint in the finale that the Joker is really a mix between both.
So yeah, i still hold the Jokers in Gotham in high regard and i think they did a good job, especially with the restrictions.
I agree. As much as jerome is sinister and jokery, jeremiah is a much better joker. He has the spot on relationship with bruce. Jeremiah also looks more like joker. Jerome and jeremiah are the two big parts of the joker. How ever the definitive joker of gotham is jeremiah. As much as I love Jerome, I’m glad they killed him off again instead of him falling into chemicals. Because he never had the relationship with bruce wayne/ batman. Just think about it. You can have a maniacal crazy person with bleached skin and green hair and a creepy voice and sinister laugh, going around killing people. He could even look like the joker. But would you call him the joker if he barely knew batman? If he ran into bruce a few times and said “do i know you?” Or “hey did i just try to kill you last week?” That wouldn’t be the joker. Because he could even be EXTREMELY different but it all comes down to his relationship with batman. And thats the big thing
@@mr.jwashere7549 It really depends on how you look at the Joker. Some incarnations of him, are just a gang boss, or just a anarchist and that can be fine as well. But when i think about Joker I automatically think about Joker with Batman . The Dark Knight Returns, Under the Red Hood, the Arkham Games, The Killing Joke, the new 52 storyline. This storylines always had the relationship between the two in mind. At least in my book thats where Joker works best. In other scenarios he is still fun, but the really emotional stuff is the turmoil of Batman with his archnemesis. The whole point of for example: the Batman who laugs, is that Joker got Batman to kill him and therefore Batman got infected and turned into the most dangerous creature in that universe. The dynamic is fascinating and when you think about how obsessed Jeremiah truly was with Bruce and what he did In the "Ace Chemicals" episode its just awesome.
Jesus you wrote an essay
I agree. I always liked the idea the Joker could be any of us, with just one bad day. I relate so much more to Jeremiah, a smart young person who was “driven” insane in an instant, than an already crazy circus freak who killed his mom. It just adds way more of a depth to the character that he could be me.
Jeremiah definitely was a better Joker for sure, because he was intelligent, cold and calculating and felt like a threat
They could’ve given him a green suit (no coat) and blue hair🤷🏻♂️
Despite all of the missteps I still personally believe Cameron Monaghan is the best Joker actor with the final version being the best despite the horrible design. Why is that one the best for me? The chaotic nature and laughter of Jerome and the intelligence and coldness along with the bond formed with Bruce, all mixed together. Just horribly designed due to BS. (I also personally liked Jeremiah more due to his intelligence and not being outsmarted. Jerome was far to easy to fool. Joker needs to be a step ahead, not a step behind.)
If there ever was a time 10 years from now they did a Batman movie with David Mazouz as Batman and had Cameron Monaghan as the Joker, I would want the Joker to be a perfect mix of the Valeska twins in personality. Just with far better designs.
I loved Cameron Monogane's performance in the show, he's what made me love the show even more. Although, I did happen to like Jerome better, simply he was the more wacky, out there joker, I mean they both were out there, but Jerome kinda just did things no plans behind it. Like Heath Ledger joker, just kinda do things. I love it, I love the mystery.
Me:I really like Jerome I feel like I can relate to him
My school:yea that's cool
My school:wait a minute
Lightning dragon please report to guidance
*Jazz music stops*
I feel like they went with the whole "3 jokers theory" Jerome was the first, Jeremiah was the second, then when he fell in the acid it sort of changed him into a whole new person "j" being the third joker. All where distinctly different characters but all shared a different joker vibe and look.
It's improvised. No plan, no vision. Just a beast of an actor.
Pup 2018: "The character Jerome Valeska made my life better."
Pup 2019: "The character Jerome Valeska should have never existed."
They're both 2019 I think.
@@ChannelPup oh yeah my bad :DDD
@@ChannelPup ur server is the best server btw i joined urs.... i made my own server for the valeska twins wanna join
I feel like Jeremiah couldve worked if they spent more time on his relationship with both Bruce and Jerome. Especially before he got sprayed with the insanity gas. With that, they couldve set up Jeremiah's plans to destroy the city better and not have his relationship with Bruce feel off (because it did to me). Show him bonding with Bruce while theyre working on the generators, show him discovering it can be used as a bomb, and then show him discovering Jerome's plans for destruction, and making them his own. They made him be so different from Jerome in season 4, only to make him act more like Jerome (more deranged) in season 5, which wouldnt have been needed if they had spent just a little more time on him, building his character.
Good point but, time off, and in My opinion, that's a Magic to the cacharacter, he doesn't has sence, or a history clear. And all we know abaout his past are words, to a crazy man(Jerome) and The devil(Jeremiah)
This has been the best “Joker” breakdown video I’ve seen so far. Keeping the legal situation in mind, I’m extremely happy with the final product. The differences between Jerome and Jeremiah were very well done. I accepted the fact that in this universe, the joker was an ideology. I’m glad it ended up changing though in the finale. The fact that he wasn’t ACTUALLY the joker makes me wonder how much more amazing Cameron Monaghan’s performance could have been if he was able to openly play Mr. J. I truly believe it’s better than Heath Ledger.
Both Jeremiah and Jerome were good elements of the Joker, and were faithful to the Joker character in a lot of ways
The story of MR.J (Joker) in Gotham is one of the best for me, from the beginning to the end. Cameron Monaghan played a lot of joker variations and partly in his own way and I really liked that. He should get the joker in the next Batman movie against Robert Pattinson that would be great
Its amazing that Cameron, in each of the characterizations embodied aspects of Joker. And quite well. But because it was always partial it was never fully satisfying. I don't blame Cameron. I think most of the Jerimiha version was best (for me). He certainly has carved a clear mark in the history of Mr. J portrayals. If watched, just for his roles, it mostly works. Given the complexity of the character of Mr. J, that may be as good as it gets.
Jerome vs Jeremiah vs joke man who would win
Joker : *I am inevitable*
Jerome : *I am the joker*
Gotham : (uses joker)
Warner Bros: HEY WHAT YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING!!
Joker walks into the Warner Bros. Building and shoots the high up executives, killing all of them.
Joker: "Don't you dumbasses get it? They want ME! so let's give them what they want! Enough of this dancing around the idea of Jerome or Jeremiah being me. We are killing that idea, throwing Jeremiah into that vat of chemicals and we are calling him the joker! It's what the people want. So who are you idiots to deny my adoring public? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!"
@@ndjoker34 *lawsuits incoming*
Gotham finale : ( airs )
Fanbase : *mission failed we'll get em next reboot*
@@Spiderman-zg2xe Joker just kills the lawsuits and airs the Gotham finale the way it was meant to be, 1 hour long with all the cut out footage restored and calling Jeremiah the joker.
Joker: "You can't keep this clown down! HA HA HA HA HA!"
@David Ortiz yeah that sounds more like joker
This comment section is honestly kinda cringe.
Even Harley Quinn. They had to call her ecco. Shes obviously Harley.
She died tho
*"Plenty more fish in the sea"*
Im glad she wasnt actually harley, she was terrible
guy's obviously she's the dauther of that guy Cardinal quinn. the guy that got killed by balloon man
There was the 3 Joker storyline that was supposed to be a thing in the comics and Gotham pretty much beat them to it. Jerome, Jeremiah, and J were brilliant and a fine loophole for the show to give the existing fans what they've wondered about just as much as Batman and get new people to watch whereas before may have not purely on great the performance by Cameron if anything else.
The show needed work and they fixed it up with a fresh coat of paint that stapled a happy face on the audience which became their ace in the hole right up until the very end.
It’s still happening but it was always meant to be done AFTER Doomsday Clock and it involves the Joker’s entire history from the Golden Age to the Modern Age. The Metaverse concept introduced in Issue 10 seems to match that. Jason Fabok’s already done some work on the 3 Jokers book.
Gotham had so many missed opportunities and it's kind of sad. They missed out on a lot of plots because they introduced so many villains in the first season (the original Ivy, Harvey Dent, Red Hood, etc..), and with the studio holding them back I can see why they would need the Joker as sort of a crutch. The Batman villains are probably the most interesting thing about DC, and the show could've been a great way to tie all of them together, but there were just so much in their way. I was so angry when they replaced Ivy and I can't believe they never did anything with Harvey Dent, so many things they could've done. I feel like WB should have let the producers have more free reign, god knows the DCCU changes Jokers all the time anyway.
Gotham could've been a fantastic show if they had just made a few different decisions, and that's probably the worst part about it, they were *so* close
I believe they could of kept going, but good old Disney bought fox, which the show was on and Disney doesn't own the rights to DC. So they had to end it kinda fast.
For me- the real downfall of Gotham was their love of Fish.
Terrible casting, terrible performance, mediocre character. Just really hard to get through the seasons of fish
W
@@theraVen27 *she probably smelt like fish too e.e*
Primrose : WB can we have 🃏
WB : We have 🃏 already
*jared leto joker*
Attack me if you want, The Jared Leto Joker, Just not a fan of him at all.
Several different performances from Cameron Monaghan of the same character.
He was brilliant in the moments. Story was a mess show all over the place...but hewas just wicked... and Monaghan should be better recognized as several versions of the Joker. Thats brilliant in itself.
The Gay Jesus Joker
Especially for S2-3
The fact that you would make a Gay Jesus joke on UA-cam is incredibly Shameless.
7:36 in the scene where Joker shoots Jim Gordon you see his face without makeup
Yeah, but I think he means before the scars and insanity. Besides, we see for all of a few frames. Thats about it
@@stanleysmooth oh ok
If Cameron Monaghan was this good with restrictions, I honestly really want to see him play a legitimate Joker in a movie with the chains off.
Same.
11:12: Cameron Monaghan apparently said that Jerome was originally going to be killed off for the second time in Season 3 by being decapitated but instead they had him live and killed him off again in Season 4 instead.
Jerome and Jeremiah are a masterpiece of a character
I love that the different types of characters kinda became a homage to the different styles of joker we had since the silver age
Ive got season one of Gotham on DVD. Apparently Warner Bros must have caved at some point cause on the back , in the description it says " Delve into the circumstances that created the bizarre personas who would become Catwoman, the Penguin, The Riddler, Two Face, and THE JOKER".
Jerome isn't in season 1 tho
I would have preferred if they had done something in the finale to leave Joke Man’s identity unknown. Like have someone say that Jeremiah escaped Arkham but don’t show it. Then they’d say something about how Jerome’s remains have gone missing. Gordon would assume that Jeremiah just stole his remains to be sure he’s dead, but when Gordon confronts him, he will start playing mind games with him and make Gordon think that there is the possibility that he is really the newly resurrected Jerome who’s followers dipped him in the lazurus pit to repair his brain and facial scares. Then he could make a joke about being a clone or something. This way the Joker’s identity remains a mystery because while he is most likely Jeremiah, it is possible that he is really Jerome or his clone.
After Season 3 WB should have let Gotham use the Joker no matter what plans the movie division had with him.
And since before the Joaquin Phoenix Joker film was announced those plans would have involved the Jared Leto Joker no one would have cared what those plans were anyway.
@@Xehanort10 Exactly.
WB: "What ya got there?"
Gotham, the Valeska Twins: "a smoothie"
I never watched the full show but today I binged a supercut of Jerome's journey. The thing I liked about the two brothers is that it tackled both narratives of who the Joker is. An insane brutal killer, a super-sane mastermind, And finally... a Super-sane brutal killer. It also tackles in part to the Chair thing in the Batman comics, that there are 3 jokers. Lastly, I will settle on a quote from the Joker, "I prefer my background to be multiple choice."
If it was all just about the Joker not being allowed to have green hair and purple suits, then they could worked around that problem by releasing the show with inverted colors instead and let the viewers themselves adjust the color settings on their own screens.
I actually think that Jerome and Jermiah are my favorite adaptations of joker and Cameron Monaghan was my favorite joker also I never thought of the idea of make Jerome’s story end with him falling into the chemicals that’s such a good idea and making Jerome subtle is genius
I originally thought that when Jerome first showed up that he had a split personality named Jeremiah, because before I started watching it I had heard about some characters named Jerome and Jeremiah, and I thought that when he fell into the vat of chemicals both of his personalities were going to merge and then he would become the joker
Boy was I wrong
Can't wait to watch this! Im loving these videos. Despite the fact that gotham ended, I hope you continue to make videos about it. Gotham is such an underrated show and you are such an underrated youtuber! 🔥🔥🔥
Are you on kadz's discord?
@@adzinco6916 yes
@@dontwatchmyvideosyouwillre6997 what are chances that we both watch the same two channels
You watch Gotham! Yasss
all things considered really glad Cameron Monangham's getting the recognition he deserves . hes phenomenal in shameless
Even Monaghan himself admitted his "Not-Joker" was all over the place.
Ya know if DC likes Jerome enough they could make him his own character in the comics
They could call him the Jester
@@2in1ziggi that is an epic idea and since Harley left joker he could be his side kick kinda like a joker robin!
At least the final episode Joker was closely accurate and it looks like TAS early version
Nobody Unknown or maybe the creeper from jeepers creepers
The Creeper was more scary abd looked better
Tao Jones T.jones abd?
Nowhere close to accurate and didn't even remotely resemble TAS version.
Robert Thompson what about the mark Hamil impression?
Joker 2019 is gnna b the only joker I’m thinking bout for a while
Cameron Monaghan is honestly an incredible actor. He convincingly played different versions of the same character perfectly
1: Jerome in his first episode. A scared and innocent kid who was heart broken that his mother was murdered (who sounded a lot like Jeremiah in his first episode)
2: Jerome the psychopath (before he died), switching between the innocent kid and the terrifying murderer in a second
3: Scarred face Jerome. Gradually becoming more psychotic and dangerous. His voice getting raspier as he caused chaos that was entirely personal (with a hint of mindless chaos)
4: Jeremiah pre-insanity gas. An isolated, private genius who works towards helping the world that he was scared to live in
5: Jeremiah post-insanity gas (season 4). A cold and calculating monster who has no motives other than proving he can do Jeromes work better, along with forging a greater connection with Bruce
6: No-mans-land Jeremiah. Becoming more psychotic as his one goal after sending Gotham into chaos becomes focused on his relationship with Bruce. He becomes more theatrical and dramatic, having the cunning mind of Jeremiah and the mannerisms of Jerome
7: Post ACME chemical Jeremiah. A perfect blending of all the best aspects of previous versions of Joker. Heath Ledger's scarred appearance, Mark Hamill's voice, Jerome's insanity and theatrics, and finally, Jeremiahs obsession with Bruce (paralleling Jokers obsession with Batman)
I can't say them springing the twin brother plot so late in the story was the best way to go. Obviously it was made up later, so they couldn't say this earlier on when Jerome first started going "jokery" and then was dead, and then reanimated later minus his face with the stitches look. I'd say that was the coolest, funnest, and most gotham-like version of the character who either 1. think/know will become the full fledged joker or 2. is the inspiration for the real one later. When Jeremiah comes into the picture, his live in girl Echo feels very harley quinn like and she goes full proto harley, and I think his intelligence and maze like home and plans are way more fitting to be "the joker." Despite feeling a bit forced with the brother plot, I'd say Jerome was funner, but Cameron Monaghan embodied the role really well. That Jeremiah absolutely was the joker.
The lost memory and mutation look was just a horrible decision, but that whole last "10 years later" episode was super bad, so gonna just try to forget it and say "The Trial Of James Gordon" was the actual last episode after the nyssa/bane thing was over.
In any case, I will feel bad for anyone who hasn't watched the show to see him and only knows of film jokers, cause I'd put him at #2 best without even thinking about it (I saw, I liked, I don't need to break it down in my head), the Jerome or Jeremiah version.
I personally think that Jerome made the best Joker origin story up until now. He was very unique, his personality was in his nature, and this personality was everything you'd expect of the Joker, chaotic for the sake of chaos. Someone who didn't care for anything and who's nature was just anarchy and chaos. His appearance made sense and was a unique take on what the Joker could've looked like.
He should not have been named "The Joker" in the Gotham series but whatever happened to him should've remained ambiguous near the end. Introducing Jeremiah instead kinda felt pointless. For legal reasons I can see how the writers were a bit pushed into a corner. But Jerome would've been the Joker that fits what we would expect of a Joker based on the comics, movies and videogames.
By introducing Jeremiah they've created a separation between the 'Batman Franchise' as we know it and one that's different where the Joker is a different person. They can try to resolve this by stating that the Joker is an 'ideology' but that's just a cheap way of trying to resolve that issue. "Gotham" really now takes places in a different "batman" universe where the Joker is something else. Not that it's a bad thing by itself, but they should've started the series as reboot, not a prequel if they wanted to go down that path.
I disagree. Unfinished as it was, we got to see lots of looks for the Joker, including the two most iconic: Jeremiah's season 5 look and finale look were iconic and his season 4 look was the most colorful look we've seen, my favorite look.
@Mr Mulligan Not really, he was very much the Joker just not a Joker people are used to. He was unhinged in different ways but acted more cold and calculating as his appearance. Dark Knight Returns, Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade, Joker in his first 3 appearances, even Heath Ledger Joker among other had a Joker with similar personality to Jeremiah Valeska in season 4 and 5
I don't think this was about "looks", but sure i guess.
I absolutely loved Monaughy or whatever his last name is. Absolutely my favorite part of the show along with Selina and Bruce’s characters development. Lee Thompkins and Jim Gordon...I still question their relationship.
Them: see its not joker.. ok?
Us: **puts valeska in joker related lists**
I preferred Jerome as just Jerome with the mystery. Making him the Joker just hurts his character. I think Jerome not being Joker was actually the most Joker thing about him and it was awesome.
This is incredibly accurate! As much as I wanted to see Jerome become the Joker, I knew it was never going to happen. I remember when I was about 11 or so I sorta just watched Gotham when it was on Tv, and the 1st episode I ever saw was the one where Jerome died. I fell in love with this character in just 1 episode and watched them take it away from me. This is when I actually became invested in the show, and learned more about the show and started reading comics on the character. I also heard about the news he could never be the Joker, and every time Jerome was announced I was so excited! But at the back of my head I knew he would never be THE Joker. Then Jeremiah came along and once again I fell in love. Tbh I think Jeremiah started off as someone we were made to hate for replacing Jerome. But even then, he wasnt the Joker. And honestly I liked the way they did it but I really wanted to see the proper Joker
Wtf dude you are talking like it was a long time ago
If there is a Batman series without the joker it doesn’t feel like a Batman series to me
Not letting them do the Joker right and instead giving us only a short appearance of Jared Leto as the Joker was a really bad move. I'll take more Jerome over whatever they gave us with Suicid Squad.
I'll go see the Joker movie now...
You see his name in the dark knight when he tried to kill the Mayor you remember?
Seems so professional and then he goes “no homo” lmao
They should've moved Jerome's fall to Ace Chemicals. If it was just only Jerome, they could've had him say he's an idea and all that and fall into the chemicals below instead of a car. If the had Jeremiah, it would've been interesting to see Jerome fall in the ace chemicals and later see Jeremiah fall on the chemicals. Then in the 10 year jump, we would have no idea if it was Jerome or Jeremiah that lived the fall of the acid. No one would know.
agreed
I would personally like to see a Gothanverse comic set after the Gotham season Finale to see Jeremiah complete his transformation to the Joker, Please do a video on how you would do this.
Like they did with Smallville?
I had a similar idea but instead of it being a comic it would be an hour long special
If only they would make a continuation of Gotham that'd be cool
Like a Batman year one
@@noname-ik7yy Exactly! 👍
In comic form like they did with Smallville?
Goddamn did i fall in love with the Jeremiah and Jerome brothers. Like omfg it was just amazing. Not gonna lie, i got hooked to the show only bc i saw Jerome in that school bus. The shows great but having him in it made it amazing
Jeremiah Valeska also had partly green hair in season 5 (before finale)
It was the lighting it wasn't purple irl
This going over as well as it did, likely inspired Warner Bros to take a risk on an actual Joker origin story.
And thus, we got JOKER the movie that everyone is now talking about.
Had the fans not taken so well to Cameron's performance, Warner Bros. may never have thought that an actual Joker origin film may have worked. But it did in GOTHAM, and now it did in the Cinemas. Cameron's performance and fan response in GOTHAM changed DC and it's approach to a possible Joker origin story outside of the Killing Joke being bankable, in more ways than one.
Also him referring to himself by "whatever name comes to mind" which was all the alias's he's had across the comics, movies and video games, was a really nice touch.
There was a scene when Jerome was talking to the penguin in arkam and the sub titles for jerome were name Joker