Fallout's Timeline Diverges EARLIER Than You Might Think
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- Опубліковано 24 лис 2024
- ...and no, it's not just the Samurai guy on the alien ship.
We know that the Fallout timeline roughly matches our own, and the general thought is that it diverges during the later 20th century. But, that's not the whole story...
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The divergence point was the formation of the universe, hence radiation not working in the same way it does in the real world.
That makes me think that radiation only turned people into ghouls after FEV was made. Harold wasn't a Ghoul, but a mutant from FEV. So maybe some one had released a semi working FEV strain that changed human genetics that allowed them to become a ghoul. It's basically humans turning into plants. Plants use radiation to feed and kick off photosynthesis.
Not everyone can become a ghoul. Just like not all ghouls will become feral. Must be some sort of genetics that helped, either Man changed or natural.
@@ravinraven6913 Oh, my friend, you do not know the can of worms you just opened. 😅
The Pan-Immunity Virion, the predecessor to FEV was created to combat possible biological agents used against the U.S, including The New Plague, which arose in the states in the 2050s. Without getting too deep in to the genetics, it protected the affected cells from corruption by changing our DNA from a double to a quadruple helix structure. This not only protected from viruses and bacteria, but entirely stopped errors in base pairing during replication, I.E aging, and protected from genetic damage caused by ionising radiation. PVP was also shown to be more effective in bone and muscle tissue than skin or sensory cells.
To my mind, this is a ghoul. They don't age, they don't get sick, they don't suffer the effects of radiation, they do not feel pain and they heal phenomenally well. The virus mainly changing bone and muscle would also explain the kinda... dead look and as it was using gene shuttling, it would be passed down through generations.
Though the PVP was eventually shelved in favour of FEV and it's potential military application* the distinct lack of a horrific plague, and really any major disease in the wasteland, means it was almost definitely rolled out in some form or another, giving us the gross mutants we all know and love.
Them being pumped full of mutagens could also explain how vault dwellers can adapt on a physiological level to stressors in their environment, becoming radiation resistant and even radiotrophic, as well as maybe developing gills? I dunno, perks are confusing.
The more I think on it, the less is actually wrong with the radiation in Fallout. They essentially took the old view of what it would be like after a nuclear war, with mutants and giant insects running all over the place, and worked backwards in just the same way they did for the bombs and the actual wasteland itself. I guess the divergence point was just millions if not billions of years ago when a precursor race evolved, died out and left traces of themselves everywhere in the form of Art-Deco sculptures and psychic crowns.
*This is why China launched the first nuke, if you didn't know, military genetic research was banned internationally and when they found out about FEV, fearing being overrun by super soldiers, they pressed the big red button.
@@ravinraven6913 The predecessor to FEV, the Pan-Immunity Virion Project, was created by the newly established West Tek Research Facility as a general immunity agent to combat biological weapons used by China, notably The New Plague which arose in the 2050s.
Without going to deep in to the genetics, PVP worked by changing human DNA from a double to a quadruple helix. This prevented damage from bio-weapons, but also had the effect of entirely eliminating errors in base pairing during cell replication, I.E aging, as well as protecting the DNA from ionising radiation and dramatically increasing healing capabilities. The change affected around 80% of the cells in a body, mostly in the bone and muscle tissue of the recipient and less so in the skin and sensory cells.
PVP was eventually shelved in favour of the FEV project after the military applications of the mutagen became apparent.*
Given the lack of a horrific plague, and really any major diseases in the wasteland, it seems that some form of the Pan-Immunity Virion was rolled out in the decades before the bombs fell and the genetic changes have been passed down through generations since.
To my mind, this is what created ghouls. They don't age, they don't suffer the effects of radiation, they don't feel pain and they can heal from wounds that no normal human could. The reduced effectiveness in the skin, cartilage and sensory cells would cause these cells to replicate less efficiently or be lost entirely, which explains where their ears and noses went, the rotting look of their skin and cloudy eyes.
The many strains of FEV are responsible for most, if not all, of the genetic abnormalities found in the wasteland: the giant bugs, the super mutants, the ghouls- human and bear- some of which were created in the years leading up to the war in various radiation incidents.
The more I think on it, the radiation in game seems less problematic as they sort of reverse engineered the idea people had back in the day of what a nuclear war would do to our planet. I guess the divergence point was millions, if not billions, of years ago when a precursor race evolved and died out, leaving art deco statues and myths of old gods behind them.
*This is what caused the war. Military genetic research was internationally outlawed and China, fearing being overrun by American super soldiers, launched the first nuke after finding out about FEV.
@@ravinraven6913 The predecessor to FEV, the Pan-Immunity Virion Project, was created by the newly established West Tek Research Facility as a general immunity agent to combat biological weapons used by China, notably The New Plague which arose in the 2050s.
Without going to deep in to the genetics, PVP worked by changing human DNA from a double to a quadruple helix. This prevented damage from bio-weapons, but also had the effect of entirely eliminating errors in base pairing during cell replication, I.E aging, as well as protecting the DNA from ionising radiation and dramatically increasing healing capabilities. The change affected around 80% of the cells in a body, mostly in the bone and muscle tissue of the recipient and less so in the skin and sensory cells.
PVP was eventually shelved in favour of the FEV project after the military applications of the mutagen became apparent.*
Given the lack of a horrific plague, and really any major diseases in the wasteland, it seems that some form of the Pan-Immunity Virion was rolled out in the decades before the bombs fell and the genetic changes have been passed down through generations since.
To my mind, this is what created ghouls. They don't age, they don't suffer the effects of radiation, they don't feel pain and they can heal from wounds that no normal human could. The reduced effectiveness in the skin, cartilage and sensory cells would cause these cells to replicate less efficiently or be lost entirely, which explains where their ears and noses went, the rotting look of their skin and cloudy eyes.
The many strains of FEV are responsible for most, if not all, of the genetic abnormalities found in the wasteland: the giant bugs, the super mutants, the ghouls- human and bear- some of which were created in the years leading up to The Great War in various radiation incidents.
The more I think on it, the radiation in game seems less problematic as they sort of reverse engineered the idea people had back in the day of what a nuclear exchange would do to our planet. I guess the divergence point was millions, if not billions, of years ago when a precursor species evolved and died out, leaving art deco statues and myths of old gods behind them.
*This is what caused the war. Military genetic research was internationally outlawed and China, fearing being overrun by American super soldiers, launched the first nuke after finding out about FEV.
@@ravinraven6913 my reply isn't posting, but I think the predecessor to FEV, called PVP is what created ghouls.
Fun fact. Paul Revere didn't say "British are coming," he said "The regulars are coming out."
With us still being subjects of the British crown they were British citizens.
Also he did not shout it out. He just went to a few homes of Militia leaders to inform them quietly as to not arouse attention of the loyalists.
He certainly did not do so quietly. He simply avoided the homes of well known loyalists.
He literally told off the guard at the Lexington House, Sergeant Monroe, for demanding Revere keep the "noise down." Revere simply replied; "Noise! You’ll have noise enough before long. The regulars are coming out!"
Not only this, but signal guns were shot and church bells were rung in response to the messages; with alarm riders carrying the same message as revere across mass. from lexington to arlington.
Good old traitor skulking about being real sus quietly warning his traitor friend
If that’s supposed to be Ben Franklin’s grave in Boston that is a divergence, he’s buried in Philadelphia.
He's rotting in hell
@@OBEYTHEPYRAMID quit being a hater, redcoat
@OBEYTHEPYRAMID what does that have to do with anything pertaining to Fallout and the timeliness divergence?
@@Alucard29997doesn’t show ben in hell
@@OBEYTHEPYRAMID gaywad
I'm a little disappointed you didn't mention the ancient aliens from the Cabot house quest line. Technically they don't have a date but it is a difference from our real time line. I would have at least mentioned them at the beginning. Who knows how their many cities could have altered the fallout time line.
That would actually be very interesting to delve into. I would be on the fence, however, as my oppositional defiance disorder tends to structure the legitimacy of lore and my strict personal confirmation of canon to be based on the original creator’s framework of the intellectual property. As long as it’s all copacetic then I’d be much more inclined to agree with the idea.
My apologies…
I think the mushrooms are kicking in🤔
Wish me luck 🫡
How do you know it's a difference from our real timeline? Maybe it actually happened, and nobody knows about it in our timeline...
@@masterofthecontinuum ok Giorgio A. Tsoukalos 😂
Nah but on the real, I don’t deny the possibility of all this being a simulation, designed by an extra dimensional being or group of beings, to measure thought and experiment with consciousness…
Bro we might actually just be overly complex NPCs with an outstanding AI capable of extraordinary level of recall or, as we are coded to phrase it, “self awareness”
It’s not impossible
💥🔥☄️🌪️🌊🌎🚀🛸🪐
✌🏻🫶🏻🙏🏻🌲🍄
🫵🏻😎🤙🏻
🌱
@@masterofthecontinuumbecause Cabot knows and knew before the bombs dropped and also knew before the present day in our timeline so even if it is real it is still a divergence
That’s because he has a video dedicated to the Cabot line in itself
You are giving the Fallout timeline way more thought than Bethesda writers ever bothered to...
I've always thought it was a post WWII divergence and more either oversight by the developers outside of that or to bring it into the game "lost" knowledge or wrongly remembered/taught knowledge by those who survived the great war.
Archeology makes gets information wrong from time to time (and subsequently sorts it out later), so we should actually expect some archeological estimations in the Fallout Universe to be different from ours. That doesn't mean that the divergence is 3000 years ago, it may simply be that the divergence happened during the archeological study of the site.
Thought the same thing, its also depend on the artifacts you find.
Dude the actual point of divergence that actually matters, is the late 1940’s when the transistor was not invented in the the Fallout Universe (it was invented much later, which is why Fallout’s electronic tech isn’t any higher than the 1980’s level). This caused a butterfly effect where all the more noticeable changes happened later. That more than anything else is what separates our timelines, since computers have an extremely outsize effect on our society.
I feel the point of this video is more
"All the timeline related mistakes of the writers"
@@ascaban6220 except this video was mentioning dates that were the same in both timelines. I think the Native American one was to keep some people guessing, rather than a mistake.
You’re so much fun I imagine
Most of the references in this video are from Bethesda Fallout which in itself has quite a bit inconsistencies in the lore.
The actual point of divergence that actually matters is the actual point of divergence. And that was way before the 1940s.
As someone else mentioned, the physics of the fallout universe do not mirror our own exactly so it could be argued that the divergence point is actually the beginning of time.
Then for the most part this other universe just mirrors our own with a few exceptions until the transistor issue.
Calling it a divergence or alternate timeline is a very weird thing that the devs do. It is an alternate universe sure. But it isn't our timeline split in two and never was not even dating back to the first game.
I always thought, with the exception of Lorenzo's ancient aliens, the timeline was the same until the transistor become common (not invented, but common).
Nah, fallout doesn't seem to have had the Nueurburg trials. Scientists seem to have continued the same experiments as Nazi Germany and Japan did.
Yeah it is a common misconception.
But between ancient aliens both zetan and Cabot and the weird cult stuff it is clear the timeline diverged much much sooner.
Even if we did away with all that weird stuff, the not Bonnie and Clyde in New Vegas push the timeline back further.
Yep that’s pretty much it, since the aliens and cult stuff could have happened in our timeline too (it is secret after all).
No, The point of 'divergence' has to be right after WW2 at the latest. The scientist of fallout appear to never consider anything like ethics in fallout. Either fallout never had the Nuremberg trials or something happened to get scientists to reject the courts findings. The matter is never discussed in fallout.
@@darrekworkman5595 2 years before the transistor then.
I wonder when it was invented in their universe, it exists but never became viable to mass produce.
1603 was the beginning of the edo period in Japan. 1600 to 1603 was the end of the sengoku jidai and beginning of the tokugowa bakufu.
Yep. The decisive battle of Sekigahara happened in 1600 which the Tokugawa clan won. Tokugawa Ieyasu, the leader of that clan was appointed as a shogun in 1603 by the emperor.
A very interesting time, where the first Englishmen reached Japan, named William Adams. He changed Tokugawa Ieyasu's mind. Finding out there were Christians out there that hated the dutch removed a base of power that the Christian Japanese had. With his help and his guns, he was able to help keep the smaller force of the Tokugawa safe from being flanked.
William Adams helped kick the Portuguese out and install the Dutch as the only Europeans who could trade with Japan, they even made a man made Island to do it at. He was a great man, sad he never left Japan. Even today his family is honored, The book Shogun was made off it. The new movie is ok, but changed too much of the story. First movie was amazing but too long
Ummmm wtf is wrong with all of you lmao. Why do you know this!!!
@@garyhyry7950 I'm old, I was there
@@garyhyry7950weebs, weebs everywhere
It's one thing I never really liked. People talk about our ancestors far back in the past as if because they're far back in the past they were somehow less intelligent than we are
When that's not really the case they were just as intelligent as we are. They just didn't have the understanding of things we have
Very true
It also appears that anti trust laws were never created so I’m curious if standard oil was ever split up considering the monopolistic tactics companies use in the fallout universe.
5:13 the sign outside Hopewell cave has the same time line as the Ohio sign (the year was only 100 years off). It’s not that different. And also, it’s only an estimate by dating found artifacts.
One thing I can point out as a definite difference is the battleship pictured on the mural in the Museum of Freedom. She carries the hull number of the real Iowa-class USS Missouri, BB-63. The difference is that an Iowa-class has 9 16" guns in three turrets. The ship pictured has 12 guns, likely still 16", in four turrets. This matches the planned layout of the Montana-class battleships, which were to follow the Iowa-class and be significant improvements on them. I'd say that for a ship bearing the hull number of BB-63 to be built as a variant of the Montana-class one or both of the inter-war naval limitations treaties was significantly different and thus the 'battleship building holiday' (the time period during which construction of new battleships was effectively banned except for certain circumstances), was dramatically shorter. At the very least the London Naval Treaty of 1930 probably didn't happen and there may have been significant alterations to the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 as well. My guess is that many of the more monstrous proposed designs sporting 18" or bigger guns were still not built due to gun size restrictions, but perhaps tonnage per ship was not as severely restricted as it was historically.
One other thing to touch on is that Fallout's BB-63 appears to be sporting what would be 1950's RADAR sets in our reality and a 1960's vintage discone cage antenna on the bow. Some very interesting features indeed if she's meant to be shown in WWII configuration.
And yes, I know, I history nerded out hard there, but hey, any detail adds to the picture.
Very interesting about the divergences had taken place in the distant past, including the Zetan abduction of an Ancient but renowned Samurai Warrior. It clearly shows the Butterfly Effect that the Zetans may had involvement in.
The physics in fallout are fundamentally different. That means it isn't a divergent timeline.
I think fallout time line is the original one, and the one we live now is the divergent. So many bad things happened that some day in the future they sent people back to change things, kinda like terminator but in a good way. Prevented the Aliens from coming in, no plasma or laser weapons. so many small things can make a big change
@@ravinraven6913 pass me whatever your smoking
4:45 as far as the timeline on the native tribe in our timeline vs the fallout one the difference could be the anthropologists in that world came to different conclusions. Hell it's a world where nuclear radiation leads to immortality,(with a hefty cost), so there could be a lot of things slightly different between the two timelines though I'd think universes would be a better descriptor.
It seems like some form of parallel divergent universe theory
A ton of stories that take placd in the future, or even in the past, take this approach. Another notable example is the universe of Cyberpunk 2013/2020/2077, which has its divergence point around the early 1990s.
There's also Pete at Nellie AFB in New Vegas that mentions a bomber crashing into Lake Mead, and specifies 1948. Also, that's accurate, both date and model of bomber.
To be fair, the Sengoku period in Japan is historically debated. 1603 is when the Tokugawa Shogunate started which is the indisputable beginning of the Edo period. Debatably, the Sengoku Period started before 1568 and this includes the Momoyama period. Medieval era in Japan is historically a mess since they record time based on who ruled the country, not eras that Europeans assign to blocks of time. So, 1603-1868 are the Edo Period, making 1603 also in alignment with our history.
The time when Fallout 76 was created, the dates for the Aedene or mound builder Indians, may have been the accepted time frame at the time the game programmers researched it from the time you researched it. Archeology is a continual shifting thing and past timelines are always being adjusted.
I really wonder where Cabot fits into all of this, because they've been in Boston for 400 years.
Just binged your channel all day. Absolutely incredible stuff, also you have a solid voice. Dude you're definitely on your way to the top fallout channels.
Really like your videos. It's a nice way to unwind before going bed. Thank you
Thanks, Joseph. If you're looking for more, check out the show on Spotify or Apple Podcasts (or any podcast app, really). There are a lot more available there.
Hey, wait; wasn’t Ubar lost some time before the founding of human civilization as a whole, according to Lorenzo Cabot? He doesn’t give us a date, exactly; but having a whole lost civilization buried under the sands of some desert somewhere means that this divergence is millennia old. To say nothing about the aliens.
True. If you include the aliens and occult stuff, the date could be eons ago.
I honestly appreciate the fallout universe for their representation of indigenous peoples, I’m Klamath and our nation survived the eruption of mount mazama while living on it, I like how they took that into consideration when making new Vegas.
There isn't 1 specific divergence. The timeline diverges and comes back, repeatedly. This was confirmed by one of the Fallout devs on Twitter.
I feel like all these dates were changed slightly or significantly just to drive the point home that it's not our history where the "timeline diverged" it's a totally different timeline where many of the same things happened to our world. All the historical events mentioned in Fallout that happened in our world still happened, just at slightly different times, so that anything they do in the game can be explained by that.
It's a game, and to make it more fun they don't want to be tied down to our reality, skewing the dates helps with that imho.
Well at some time or other the 30/30 Winchester level rifles just vanished. Its one of the most common weapon in the US even globally and would be a good weapon for the wastes. There are none of them in any game.
it seems that the aliens in FO have the ability to time travel, I wonder if they are just grabbing historical figures, or if they are trying to manipulate the timeline for a specific outcome on their timeline. each individual would shift events around them from not being there.
No. It is not time travel. And even if it was? So what. It makes far more sense that the aliens have simply been around the Fallout world for hundreds of years.
200,000 years for a spaceship traveling at the speed of light to go across the entire Milky Way Galaxy. Spending what? 500 years around Fallout earth? And mind you a extra 100 years or so after the world turned into a nuclear winter and now the state we see it in game? The unrealistic part about the hole plot of everything?? How would a single human brake lose and do what the player do in the game? Like litterly even with stimpacks and infinite reloads of save games etc? The Alines sould at no point have lost to the player character. Yet it is only a stupid computer game. At the end of the day.
Really Bethesda writing and game desgin is so puddle deep that it really is not worth bothering thinking about it much. Bethesda can not be bothered to actually put in the time and good writers to make something solid enough to stand up to scrutiny... The actual Fallout 3 that was planned? It would involve going up to a space station etc. So I guess Fallout had originaly ideas about space wars too. And to some extent Aliens.
1950s I saved you the time. Tim Cain talked about research from the 50s they used for inspiration for the Vaults.
That's a great answer, but to a different question.
Honestly, Things Man Was Not Meant To Know has, in my opinion, diverged the timeline more than any human event. I think it's a highly ignored factor in Fallout analysis (and maybe the most gross error in the design).
Counter point to the first entry about the natives, those dates were probably an estimate by people pretty recently. The estimated years that the tribe lived might be different in the Fallout universe but that doesn’t mean there was any divergence in 1000 BC. Just that in this universe they came to a different conclusion, maybe they found proof the natives were here earlier than expected
Guys the Toshiro kago guy is actually speaking Japanese and archaic. And I translated it. Really scary
To be fair those may not be divergence in date &tc. in the first half, it may be in universe archeological mistakes compared to ours, or even new info, like the fallout universe the archeologists could have new info, given they have 50 more years worth compared to us
On the Adina plaque thing, the plaque could just be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time misinformation found its way onto a plaque at a historical site.
I think the confusion with our point lookout and point comforts is because some mapmakers got a hold of old maps from a divergent timeline where both places are elsewhere and they jus6t combined the two together.
This isnt actually too far from what has happened in real life, some places have the same name as similar places not too far away because of people either landing on the wrong place and colonizing it as the name of the place they were supposed to land at, or otherwise some incorrect maps locals use long enough the names stick because they didnt have enough contact with the other place with the same name to realize they should change.
Dude just started your podcast after finishing Tapes From the wastelands (which was great too) and I just have to say, I had to look up the actor of Bud Askins. Because you sound so much like him!!!!
The Fallout universe isn't our own with a divergent timeline. Its a magical universe that parallels our history and its authors follow the Rule of Cool and the Dogma of Retcon as it is designed.
In a recent game theory video we discovered that the timeline splits february 13 1961
And here I figured Kago was the absolute earliest event.
For first one, plaque could have been made beyond our years, when they find evidence of them being older, and the later similar stuff after them not being theirs? We learn new stuff deeper we dig, and they were digging for ores everywhere before the great war they could have unearthed so much history looking for uranium and stuff.
I have always suspected that the US sided with the Axis in the Fallout universe.
It would certainly explain its fascist overtones.
That would explain why the Enclave officer outfits looks so stylish!
They didn't my guy. World War 2 still happens in the Fallout Universe. In 4's introduction it mentions how the Protagonist's Great Great Grandfather fought in Iwo jima and how the US still nuked Japan. Even back to the first game's intros make mention of World War 2.
The US went plenty fascist in our timeline after WW2, if the culture of America in the fallout universe ossified during the 1950s, it would stand to reason that the pre-war US government would be pretty fascist.
Some of yall throwing around "fascist" too freely. Guess it's one of the words most are taught to repeat these days.
That poor samurai is very confused. He keeps repeating things like "What did you say?"" and "I don't understand!". He says he can't remember anything and wants to know where he is and what the PC just did. He also asks where the "sword of sesshi (I couldn't translate that word correctly)" is and demands you give it back asap
One of the main diversions from our reality in fallout is, I forget if it just never got invented in the first place or never caught on, but microchips don't exist.
Microchips were invented 10 years before the great war. This actually means the institute had more time to advance microchip technology than the real world
Any plans for a follow up? I'm particularly interested in the divergence of technology, and the lack of, I think the difference was no transistors? Something along those lines. Even leading up to the bombs, I do enjoy this format of evidence based data showing all of these diverges, that is atleast up until modern day.
Essentially there were three major technologies that came from world war two, both sides focused on rocket propulsion but our reality chose to focus on computers and information technology and only dabbling in nuclear fission technology, while the fallout universe chose to pursue the advancement of nuclear fission capabilities as well as the utility and applicability of the technology while only dabbling in computers and information technology.
Yep, the transistor was never invented in the Fallout timeline allowing for advanced circuitry. So it was about the 1920s that the tech started being designed in our universe and was completed by 1946. That lack of microcircuitry stalled creativity and entertainment.
@@Sumoniggro Great answer! A very clear way of describing the differences.
Divergence was the big bang
I've always assumed that the timeline diverges in 1945, right after the end of WW2. There are obviously some changes between the two timelines that happened before, but I think the main divergence happened then.
As someone who has been playing since the game was just called "Fallout," as there was only one, I agree with you.
we were told lies revere never made he had gotten injured early on in the night and couldn't finish the ride...
If you were really going to look into all of the divergence you would have to do it on a scale cuz some things are a lot more consequential than others are I'm sure. Frank isn't going to walk out of his house and get a cup of coffee in both universes exactly the same every time. So if one of those Franks gets sick is that a divergence is bound to be plenty of smaller differences and slightly larger differences that have no real meaning overall whereas others have significant impact which can be seen for decades afterwards
It's true, there are lots of native sites all across the US, but there was plenty of fighting between them all too. It wasn't just one big Network. There was warfare in the United States before Europeans got here
Mainly it’s the lack of micro processors
You know that you could probably just ask Tim Cain...
9:45 From an older version of wikipedia or even history book. 1600 is pretty likely rounded and not precise, imo.
Yeah, I think you're probably right. Someone in the information chain rounded the number and it just stayed that way.
There are other reasons why we would have different dates which are not necessarily a divergence. It could simply be a matter of different knowledge. At the time that the plaque was placed honouring the indigenous culture and history of the area, in universe they may have information and evidence we have not found yet that places them in the region earlier than we thought, and either lack information we have indicating how long these people were there (or have reason to distinguish into a separate group.) There could be differences in techniques used to date artifacts; with one of our worlds having more accurate methods.
There is also the matter of who is writing the history. Fallout is based in a universe where McCarthy era culture and values was upheld more strongly for far longer. 1950s era Cowboys & Indians narrative was still popular and the norm at the time the bomb dropped, and that was a folk mythology based on decades of suppression and erasure of indigenous culture. There is going to be a lot more wrong information that correct, and little priority in funding or giving voice to researchers who want to get that information correct. If anything, it is a wonder such a plaque exists at all.
The people in these games are unreliable narrators. It is hard to trust history books in this game world, and even harder to trust people who learned their knowledge in this post apocalypse.
John Smith is actually a perfect example here. The man is one of the biggest liars in our history books, a not so great man who lied himself into being seen as a huge hero. The most notable of his lies is the entire Pocahantas (and his relationship to her), which was so prominent that even Disney promoted it in the 90s. It has taken a long time for us to start disavowing his fiction. Of course information on him in universe is wrong, there is a lot less incentive in Fallout America to get it right.
About the Adena, I don't think it's that telling. Archaeology can be quite a mess and discoveries and debates can considerably change things through decades of work.
It'd be enough for a dev to have a past in the field or a companion or parent in it, and he or she would've had enough awareness of these issues to change the dates of the Adena culture as a quirky nod to archaeologists.
the timeline in fallout universe diverges at the end of WW2, it pretty much screams that fact at you in many of the games. Were we learned to fear nucluar power in most cases, the fallout citizians embracd it.
Just started listening to the first few episodes of the fallout latest branching back to 2019z I love it
The library of Alexandria wasn't burned...... typed before watching
If I had a nickel for every time the Adena native Americans were mentioned or part of a post apocalyptic game, book, or series, I'd have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's funny it happened twice.
I think a will better fit if the great war was in the 80tys or 90tys...that will explain more why they are so fixated on the 50tys and 60tys
IMO, it never 'diverged' -- it was only ever coincidentally identical _in places,_ but for the most part it was always a closely parallel (but distinct) alternate timeline.
The plaques in Boston... once again, unless the plaque says " this plaque set here in 1982" there is no timeline divergence. Clearly they were put in place after 2032.
So... you point out a lot of stuff that is 100% correct and then speculate a lot... you didn't point out a single definitive divergence. Go to the historical society in rivet city next and use the garbled rambling account of history from Abraham Washington as "evidence" that the timeline diverged!
1633 is a stretch at best everything before is 99.9999% Dev error (this is Bethesda we are talking about) .
the 1697 event would be the first.....but its so minor and its from a dlc, so with that said the original Diverge stands.
I'd actually put the main divergence in the mid 1880s to bid 1890s. This is mainly from the TV timeline, since I'm less familiar with the games, but here we go.
There needed to be British colonization of North America, as mentioned. There also needs to have been the American Revolution, given the 13 stripes on the flag and general US independence. The number of people of African descent implies the slave trade occurred, but slavery is no longer an institution, which presupposes a Civil War. Cowboy movies and western music are popular, so the Second Westward Expansion must have occurred much as in our timeline. It also appears that there was no reversion to Jim Crow after Reconstruction, as mixed-race relationships are accepted at all levels of society with no apparent taboo. This also means no Woodrow Wilson rising to prominence to screw up the peace after WW I, but I get ahead of myself.
However, the country is largely dominated by large corporations who seem to have little regard for their shareholders. This is in tune with the Muckrakers, trustbusters, and other progressives not having come to prominence. So, so far, we're at a close but parallel track to our current history. The big fork in the road appears to me that the US did not participate in the First World War. This war would have needed to happen to explain the rise of Soviet and thus Chinese Communism. However, the lack of US participation would have allowed the war to grind on for years longer, greatly weakening both the Soviet Union and Western Europe, making these regions minor players in world affairs post-war, and no Versailles treaty to set the stage for WW II. No WW II means we also don't get the technological surge in electronics that the war caused, delaying the proliferation of solid-state technology.
The surge in missile and nuclear technology could have still been led by refugee scientists from that shattered European Continent, but as a way of guaranteeing US isolation rather than to defeat a continental European power block. Thus, we still have the moon landings, which could also have been inspired by contact with the Zetan aliens, but we don't get the Beatles, Rolling Stones, and other British Invasion groups to come over and change popular music (Elvis, if he appeared, was likely little more than a flash in the pan fad), so the radio playlists of 2033 still sound an awful lot like those of our 1956-1962.
WWII happens Nate the default protagonist of Fallout 4 says his great-great grandfather (I think I can’t remember exactly how many generations he says) fought in the Pacific Campaigns and calls it WWII. That means WWI also happened. I think Jim Crow could have happened and still have gone away. The Cold War lasting way longer with China becoming the main foe and the war eventually turning into a conventional war may have brought on a unified sense of American unity. Plus we have never really seen the Deep South in the Fallout show or games, especially not pre war so we could one day get more information.
Maybe they have worse radiocarbon dating techniques in fallout, but I dont know it feels a bit weird to be the point where it splits the timeline.
all things put into a game are on purpose. developers and 3D artists research and collecting references, so when there are differences, they desiced to do them for some reason - lore or just gameplay wise.
Also, those "alien" mummies from peru are already confirmed to be fake - they are known for years already, studied from scientists all over the world. Only because a bunch of american scientist came up to invalidate the work of others, doesnt mean its suddenly not fake anymore.
Dates especially in archeology get changed all the time.
the Moon rises in the West and sets in the East in FF4 so ... the begging of the Earth Moon system? jeez
Thousands of years befor the rise of man. a non human precursor species of extra terristrial origin built a city in what came to be known as the The Rub' al Khali region of Arabia. So it has to be before then.
The Norman Conquest was a huge deal 😂 yes indeed it was
But it should be more like a parallel divergent universe. Or even a brand new universe that seems to parallel ours. There are so many events that happen at the same time. But also aliens, cabbot, etc etc. Fallout shouldn’t be considered divergent UNTIL WW2. That’s when the world goes weird.
The Adena date plaque is about as accurate as a lot of roadside historical markers I’ve seen over the years. Which is to say not very accurate at all. Ones fill the 20th century were often up by community groups and not historians.
Back when they couldn't prove witchcraft scientifically? I completely forgot we have that luxury that days, thank god for modern witch sensors. 😎
"A bunch of women were convicted of witchcraft" it was 5 women.
5 to many
@@Lohhw Who knows, maybe they actually were witches. Zetan aliens are real thus the chance of those witches being real is rather high.
For the Native American culture, I assume that more discoveries are made between now (2024 when you are doing your research) and 2077 when the nuclear war happens refining our knowledge of the Native American culture.
Seems like at some point fallout universe decided that we're going to invest heavily into nuclear
Whereas we decided not to invest heavily into anything nuclear and have been making better and better TVs
I think talking about the fallout timeline as if there is a single divergent point is outdated and reductive. I think it's more like the Marvel or DC universes where it's largely the same as ours but has differences going back to the beginning of time.
Of course but there is the one single divergence that paved the way to the unrecognizable US in Fallout in comparison to our world, and it was which of the world war two technological inventions would they focus on, while both focused on rocket propulsion, in our reality we decided to focus on the recently developed computation machine which we would eventually call computers and information technology in general, working to not only increase it's capabilities but also it's utility and applicability while only dabbling in nuclear fission tech while the FO America did the inverse focusing on nuclear fission improving it's capabilities as well as it's utility and applicability while only dabbling in computers and information technology. Although I do have to say after everything we have discovered in our reality about automation and robotics it makes absolutely no sense that self-guiding, interacting and multitasking robots exist in the fallout universe when their computer technology is so primitive in comparison to ours, just having abundant nuclear energy isn't enough to create artificial beings capable of such things.
It's retro-futurism based on 50s and 60s sci-fi. You need to suspend some disbelief.
Some differences are intentional, some are not, and some might be taken from the undigitized sources
When watching the Fallout 4 intro and Nate tells about Hiroshima, we see pictured Variant of the B-17. Normaly i'd figure that we're supposed to be thinking that this was the plane that delivered the nuclear bombs. Might've been lazy editing, someone was told to find some re-created footage of a ww2 bomber and so they did.
That Planes that did deliver the nukes where vastly superior in Range, which they needed lest they wouldn't have gotten to Japan; the B29.
Or maybe Avionics works different in the Fallout universe...
If you have even a cursory glance at the air vehicles of the Fallout universe and the way that Vertibirds move, you can tell that avionics are much much different from ours
I take into account how much propaganda has taken over life in the fallout games. Information is heavily controlled, and I assume altered. This might explain a lot of historical discrepancies. Fallout historical records simply got things wrong.
Also, the freedom trail plaques are clearly a tourist/ monument addition to the locations, post our real world time line. Referencing the buriel in 2031 proves this.
Are native American villages larger in this timeline? What caused the Adena to have greater cohesion than in the otl?
5:20 or, the archeologists in the 20th century in Fallout screwed up (or those in our reality). This is just an (informed) OPINION about the history 3000 years ago. Not actual timeline divergence.
Wait but what if these dates are th same as ours and the historians just dont have as reliable tech as us in their carbon dating and such? As a result of the known divergence. We know some tech is better than ours while other tech isn't quite up to par with us.
Honestly, I don't feel like anything post Bethesda buying the franchise is proper canon.
I do not think that the Adena culture point is as important as you think it is, in the games our history extends father than our current timeline and it is possible that archeologists could have discovered a site that was adena culture that pushed the timeline for this culture back several hundred years to 1000 bc.
much in the same way that discoveries of modern human remains has continued to push our understanding of the age of our species back with each new find that is older, instead of thinking we are 20k years old we now accept that we date to 250-300k years old as a species.
if tomorrow they were breaking ground for construction and found an Adena culture site from 850bc then as soon as it was confirmed that wikipedia entry would likewise be changed to fit the new evidence, so perhaps the games creators did this as a future proof, or one read about the Adena culture and got the dates wrong.
more importantly is the existence of huge metallic statues at locations like dunwich borer's, and that guy with the helmet in FO4 pointing to a truly advanced culture and apparent magic, or the facts that certain things do not function the same as our understanding of physics.
Hope we’ll Mound City site in Chillicothe Ohio was a heart of the Hopewell culture.
No one read the notes. Take the tv show clips. Description says what episode it is, and yet hundreds of people ask what episode it is. If they can't read the description then how can they read the comment reply? fools
I think the original time line in the game IS the fall out time line. I postulate that some where in the future, people go back in time to multiple points and changed things so the world turned out how it did in real life.
Say the Aliens, if the Japanese Samurai wasn't abducted, would he have changed much? If the cowboy wasn't kid napped, would he have become the back bone of law and justice in the west? Like a book, the spine holds it together. Without it, the book wouldn't exist.
So even if they aren't major players, they might have saved or changed people who did make it into history books.
They changed the dates just so you would have a video to make on UA-cam. Thank you, Bethesda. 😇
“john smith actually existed” do you have a source?
It’s basic US history. Ever seen the movie Pocahontas? It’s that John Smith. He’s a real guy.
@@masonsarro-twickler7286 i was joking that’s the most common name ever of course he existed
@@masonsarro-twickler7286as a descendant of Pocahontas I’m offended you use that as a way to justify he existed that movie was ass backwards and had nothing based in any form of reality beyond the names
@@Pedro-kd4sm most movies are pretty ass when you watch them backwards
@@themythicwafflemost movies are ass even watched normally these days.
I like the idea you have here, its a good topic to dive into, but I think you might be missing some opportunities by overfocusing on your thesis.
All of the divergences you've mentioned so far seem like they could be chalked up to narrative design team error, or even an error on your part. I feel like you missed the opportunity to comment on the samurai abduction as the earliest probable divergence not attributable to error, as there are no confirmed abductions of samurai - but even that is inconclusive.
There are some great opportunities to explore the tie-ins to reality that are mentioned in the games. I would encourage you to explore the relevance of them to setting the stage in the game.
Yes, "natives"
Using CE instead of AD is an immediate dislike. Even Bethesda uses BC and AD.
I have to say with 76 being disaster hard to take any information from it as credible
Sooo, John Smith landed in America in 1608, and didn't stop exploring... he continued his survey of the East Coast and 4 years into his work discovered point lookout. You are calling any use of Artistic expression in the games a split in the timeline. Same thing with 1634... Christopher Columbus hit the wrong CONTINENT, and you are pointing out that "near" point lookout isn't precisely accurate?
You lost me really early on, wont bother finishing so any date mentioned is a divergence in your opinion?!? ex the battle of hastings?
Nice distance rendering
1959: Lustron homes, Philco Predicta TVs, Hiller X-18 vertibirds, AK-47s, ... Very few objects from 1960+.
Didnt they say fo76 wasnt cannon
So they've got the BC date but there's never any mention of our religions in the games.
(I wish we could edit out all of them as easily, I can't stand organised religion).
There are churches but are there ever any crucifixes?
I’ve always thought the Fallout universe was an alternate version of ours.
Sort of like the Avengers universe.
Because it literally is..?
what bro
...??????????? that's the point
Smartest Fo4 player:
All universes, that are not ours, ...are alternate to ours. 🤯