Russell T. Davis = Too silly Steven Moffat = Too complicated Chris Chibnall = Too boring Can we return to Moffat or Davis? I would prefer to be silly and complicated than boring.
Moffat was never too complicated, IMO. At his best, he was perfect. At his worst, he was just spread too thin. Even good writers don't have an infinite well of inspiration to write the majority of episodes for several shows at the same time - something is going to suffer. I am kind of surprised that Davies hasn't come back to do the odd episode. I suspect that we'll see more brilliant writing like Turn Left or Midnight when he isn't saddled with producing duties also. Same goes for Moffat, although for him it would be too soon.
@@HereComesPopoBawa Agreed on Moffat spreaded out his complicated stories to thin. 1 - Moffat 2 - Davis 100 - Chibnall Sorry, I like 13 but her stories written by Chibnall are boring maybe excluding the episode 10 of series 11 which was slightly better. BBC should keep Whittaker but kick out Chibnall. Get Moffat or Davis back or someone good that can make stories not boring. Paul McGann is the only classic-who Doctor actor that is still old enough to be in the role, I would like a 8 and 13 crossover.
@@modmaker7617 - There are two kinds of "interesting/boring" at play here. First there is the depth of the concepts of the show, be they science, drama, social commentary, or whatever. This is the area I think needs to be strengthened. But secondly we've got what I call "short attention-span theatre" - psychological tricks to make something seem exciting, even if nothing really happens. Kind of like that stilted, in-your-face over acting that you see in advertising, and some UA-camrs: flashing lights, manic gestures, shouting, irrelevant pop culture references, frenetic camerawork and editing, loud music, etc. And Who has been filthy with that stuff. I can look past it when I otherwise like other elements of the story. But it's something NuWho has gotten worse about over the years. Poking you in the eyes and ears, elbowing you in the ribs and blowing a party horn to declare "Get ready for forced whimsy and wacky adventure! About... McGuffins and handwavium!" So one of the few areas that I think that the current season has been a vast improvement is to get rid of all that superficial hype. But unfortunately, it has not compensated by becoming more conceptually interesting, either. So part of me worries to what extent the viewers and creators are aware of this difference. And when I read so many complaints that the show is less loud, brash, and in-your-face - it suggests to me that what others want are what I am happy it has left behind, and was never part of the show's core concept anyway.
Russell has silly moments yeah but overall I find his era to be the more serious and heartbreaking. This is highlighted in episodes like “Midnight” “Turn Left” “Waters of Mars” “Doomsday” “Journey’s End” “The Parting of The Ways”
New Earth was a classic 'gentle' and fun episode ... the type RTD did SO well at the start of his seasons, just to ease the viewers into the new series, and allow the Doctor to have a daft adventure. I always loved how instant the chemistry was between Piper and Tennant, and Billie was excellent throughout the episode.
I also always forget how self proud 10 was early on, but I love how consistent his own character arc is over 3 seasons, as he goes from embracing his self importance early on, which dies down a lot in season 3 until his "Lonley God" moments in Family of Blood and the finale where we are how powerful and strong he really is, but how he hates to show this. He still has great authority but is more relaxed I think. Then by season 4 he is struggling with the idea of wanting to use his power over time and space to change things for the better, but not being allowed to. This is why I feel Donna made such a good companion: she made him change and progressed his character arc further, building on what we have already seen him struggle with, and this concept peakes with Waters of Mars, where he reaffirms his abilities and importance as a Time Lord, decides he can change things, and get ultimately fails. It's an amazing arc for the 10th doctor which I appriciate far more now having rewatched his whole run recently, as his progression and struggle with power develops so naturally.
Peter .Cartwright You mean egotistical? Anyway that wasn’t just early on, that’s all the way through. If you don’t like 10 being egotistical then you don’t like 10 at all. End of.
Good point about Donna because she's one that doesn't really take any shit from him while Rose and Martha always kinda put him on a pedestal and were idolizing him a bit much. Donna really was what 10 needed in the end of his run ^^
I enjoy this mostly for the performances of Billie and David when the Doctor and Rose are being possessed by Cassandra. Especially the Doctor "Oh baby, I'm beating out a samba!" always cracks me up. That said, it's cheesy as hell, this episode, and I guess the first episode with a new Doctor after the regeneration is always going to be a bit rocky but this really is...cheesy. I am always amused at him saying "I know a bit about medicine!" as he's just dumping random medications in the vat and as you say, just spraying it over them and letting them touch each other. Though I do enjoy his excitement with "Pass it on! Pass it on!" and his thrill at seeing everyone alright and healthy enough to have a real life. So mixed feelings, and honestly most of the time I skip over some bits to get to the parts I do enjoy.
I hate the term "cheesy", because I just love cheese (really, I do!). Episodes like New Earth are more like a fake cheese that one sprays out of a can.
I always tend to disagree with you, but no matter how our opinions differ I want to thank you for making this content. I didn’t even subscribe for the Doctor Who stuff in particular, but you’ve reignited my passion for it. I was always terrified of the Flesh in this episode when I was younger. Looking at it now, it’s strange to see how poorly the CGI transformation of the cat nurses changing into the diseased has aged.. not too scared now EDIT: Also, the hospital shop joke was also in S03E01, “Smith and Jones”
I think the quality of a really good reviewer or commentator is that, agree or disagree, you can still appreciate their content. There are reviewers I totally agree with on every subject who I can't be bothered to watch because their lack of enthusiasm and passion could cure insomnia, or their over-the-top militancy or "only I am right!" stance make me want to puke. It's always nice to find a channel that's struck the right balance. Especially one with such a civil comment section :)
Everyone complained about the low budget quality, of (the show) the 1st & 2nd season. Most, fans where willing to, kind of, over look it, the first season.. But, Half way through the 1st season-- it was becoming popular and fans where disappointed that no extra effort in FX quality /increases in the production budget.. which, made it hard for fans to promote & defend the show, to friends..
Kosh 963 When you’re an 8 year old boy like I was back in 2006, visual effects pail in comparison to the terrors of a child’s imagination. In my eyes those cat people and the infected were as realistic back then as some of cinemas moved visually realistic characters such as Golem from LOTR of Caesar from Planet of the Apes
This episode aired as a rerun on Disney XD and is how I got invested in the franchise as my first episode to click with me. I had already seen a bit of An Unearthly Child and the 2nd two parter in Series 5 but this hooked me.
Tennant also made the little shop reference in the series 3 Opener Smith and Jones with Martha when they are hiding from the Judoon behind the plants on the balcony and Tennant can see the little shop.
Idk why, probably because I was 10 when I first watched it and didn't pick up on it, but it took me a long time to pick up that this whole episode is basically arguing against animal testing in medical research and shows the Doctor (or at least, this version) is against it. They probably could have delved more into the parallels tbh. Edit: Just to add, I find it funny that they sneak in this episode which heavily goes after animal testing and no one bats an eyelid over the politicial themes, but series 11 has a few politically themed stories and suddenly it's too PC.
I'll be honest, my love for this is very strong. This is honestly one of my favorite episodes *period* because of the lab rat thing. As a kid that pretty much grew up in a hospital (I got burnt at a very young age that required a lot of my life to be spent under extensive medical care) the lack of bodily autonomy was particularly horrific for me. The thought of not knowing life outside of what they've been through felt extremely personal, and as cheesy as the *let's throw all the medicine on them* is, when I watched it as a child it felt nice to see someone be able to be completely cured. Truth is I've still got my grafts. I'll never be 100%, but seeing those people being able to be 100% made this one of the most satisfying stories of the entire run. Funny, cause 10 and Rose are actually one of my least favorite duos.
Because writers can easily add a feeling of depth by referencing their own work? I think Davies did better when referencing actual characters and events, instead of dropping portentous-sounding phrases in multiple episodes.
Don't leave your treasures ignored Get bigger bolts on your doors And tougher locks on your drawers Watch the street... You see the stealth is an art Pick your tumblers apart You know you never can outsmart A Khajiit
@@EmileeAria413 "There just animals you know but as sentient, semi-humaniod aliens!" At least Catkind has an excuse of being originally Earth cats that evolved. The Judoon have no connection to Earth as far as I know.
@@andrewhayden9545 I guess, but I find the Judoon much better designed because it's not "A human with this animal's features" which you can find anywhere on the internet, it's a bipedal rhino. Not much more creative but it didn't distract me like the Sisters of Plentitude.
I think all the major carry over companions have all had improved chemistry with the new Doctor. I'm thinking here of Sarah Jane going from Pertwee to Baker. Rose from Ecclestone to Tennent and Clara from Smith to Capaldi. Interesting.
"...Rose from Ecclestone to Tennent..." - Strongly disagree. Not only the chemistry changed, but Rose's entire characterization shifted also. The two of them had less dynamic and nuance between them, and struck me as being insufferably smug. It was the only era of Doctor Who that I tuned out and avoided watching as it aired.
I just love your videos. Your personality and the way you think are just awesome. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions with the world and for making all these wonderful videos. I appreciate it greatly, and it's helped inspire me to make my own videos again. You're the best!
Mentioning Billie Piper's chemistry with Eccleston and Tennant, she also had good chemistry with John Hurt in the 50th anniversary special, though of course she wasn't technically playing Rose in that.
Technically he is the 4th NuWho Doctor, because Eight appeared in the 2013 NuWho short "The Night of the Doctor", and regenerated into the War Doctor who appeared in the 50th anniversary "The Day of the Doctor", and he regenerated into Eccleston (who I don't think I need to explain) and then into Ten, making him the 4th Doctor that has appeared in NuWho (First Doctor in "Twice Upon a Time" (2017) dosen't count, as there was a gap between him and Eight).
5:19 As someone who is wholeheartedly against animal testing in any form, I took this as a "hey, the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly it's not ok" kinda thing. It's not something I thought of on my first watch, but I did think of it on later rewatches years later.
I remember disliking Tennant as the Doctor because I loved Christopher's (he was my 1st). Also because I had a negative association with him from HP GOF (subconscious at first). But know I also realized that it was is instant over confidence & authoritarianism that was also off putting. His doctor just felt too different.
Your criticisms are all entirely valid, but I love this episode. I love the campy cat people and the nonsensical brightly-coloured resolution to the plot. And I LOVE Tennant playing Cassandra. And his runs of words - “new newnewnewnew new new new newnewnew new new new NEW New York” makes me smile every time. The nostalgia goggles are thick on this one.
It's not bad. I don't mind the cat people - I actually quite liked that they looked like the Cheetah people in Survival. Agree with most of your other points. My issue with Season 2 was the general lack of variation in setting - too much modern Earth (1950-2012) - including the alternate reality 2-parter and made even worse if you watch the 2 Specials that bookend this season close together. I mean you have New Earth, Tooth and Claw, Girl in the Fireplace, Impossible Planet & Satan Pit - and that's it for different settings? In 15 Episodes. That's why I can't hate New Earth too much - because it gave some variety to the season even if it's far from the best. The rest of Season 2 is modern day (2 Specials & 4 Episodes) , recent past (1 Episode), near future (1 Episode), and alternate reality (2 Episodes).
In regards to the comment on "lazy creature design", I can mostly agree with what you're saying but it is still leaps and bounds ahead of the creatures in the new series. With a couple of exceptions (those being the Pting and the spiders) they were pretty much indistinguishable from humans, and even the two that weren't didn't seem to have been given any thought beyond "a gremlin but on a spaceship" or "a spider just really really big".
This season is such a weird one. It’s got The Rise of the Cybermen/Age Of Steel, The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, School Reunion, The Girl in the Fireplace, and Doomsday, but it ALSO has Love and Monsters, Fear Her, New Earth and The Idiot’s Lantern. Such a mixed, MIXED bag.
I think the good far outweighs the bad. This seasons had excellent two partners which I always consider to be the most important episodes to get right. You could easily skip over Fear Her/New Earth/The Idiot’s Lantern/Love & Monsters and not miss a thing.
So it was Davies who started the Doctor's unreasonable belief in his own power and authority. I tend to think of it in connection with Matt Smith's first episode and his absurd dismissal of the Atraxi (who could have fried him to a crisp for his impudence); but I see that Moffat didn't start this, he just carried it on. It's most regrettable. In the 20th century I think the Doctor was just a lone eccentric living on his wits; long-lived, yes, but with no particular power or authority, except as an 'advisor' to UNIT. I liked him that way.
@MidAtlanticGal Unfortunately, for the Doctor to live on his or her wits requires the cleverness to come from the writers, and in Series 11 it hasn't been there. So the 13th Doctor has been obliged to live on the weakness of her opponents, and the help of her magic wand that does everything.
I never really rewatch this episode. Series 2 started off pretty bad, but this story does have some decent moments, the scenes with the face of boe, the ending where the doctor hugs everyone and says “I’m the doctor and I cured them!” It’s good. But this story is just slow paced and not much to be excited about. It had a great concept that I can see in the classic series, maybe Jon’s era. But they could’ve done so much more and made this fast paced and kinda creepy. I’d rate this 3.5/10 but I also don’t like how Cassandra possesses rose and kisses the doctor and they kinda dry hump eachother, it felt cheesy and forced for people who want rose and ten together. Oh well.
For me the cat-people work for how they’re used here, when you think about how cats are the idea that with greater intelligence they could end up doing what they do, where they seem to be all cute and want to help people, but don’t really have much empathy. Does make sense. Also how they quarantine the building, trapping themselves inside, kind of shows nuance. Agree with what you said about the resolution being stupid though.
It This episode wasn't the greatest but it was a good intro to 10 and it had its fun moments, especially when they were possessed by Cassandra. But I always laugh at the beginning when they are standing on the grassy hill, because of the DVD commentary where they mention that there were gale force winds that day, and they couldn't get through the scene because every time David looked at Billie, all he could see was hair covering her face and he would burst out laughing.
I think there *was* romantic chemistry between Rose and Nine towards the end of his time, it sort of warmed up slowly as the first season progressed; that's my view anyway! Still, things obviously changed with the regeneration, and it helped that Ten was more attractive (sorry Eccleston!). In fact, I think I heard the idea somewhere that maybe Nine regenerated into someone who Rose would find attractive because of the (perhaps subconscious) romantic feelings that already existed at the time of his regeneration. Probably not canonical?
With Chris' departure, they wanted familiarity, so Cassandra was brought back, this is explicit from RTD. The story has lots of flaws, but it's strength/emotional impact comes from her redemption/death. Does the Cat in Red Dwarf also offend? ;) I must confess to tears when the Cat priest passed.
No, the Cat is awesome. But that's because he's a character with distinctly cat like traits, plus it's an overt comedy so different standards apply. Here, the nuns could have literally been anything and nothing about the story changes save for a few lines of dialogue.
@@CouncilofGeeks Also, Cat looks almost human, so that sort of subverts the 'animal person' trope of a humanoid with animal fur (or other obvious features), and forces his distinction with humans to be based on character, the opposite of lazy in my book!
This first time I watched this I was so angry. It honestly pissed me off the way 10 treated rose for the first little bit of time. It honestly felt like he didn't care at first. Until I realized he did lol.
Honestly, I don't really see the downside to comparing the dynamics a carryover companion has with different doctors. Even if they have better chemistry with one or the other, I still think the contrast is valuable in and of itself.
There was much in the episode that was different and therefor entertaining. Having a cat person is a nice twist. From a science fiction perspective, say a thousand years from now, what it means to be human might be more "fluid". Human machine hybrids would be likely. Some people might experiment with different types of biological forms.
I agree, but they don't really go anywhere with this. They show people from 50,000 years in the future and don't understand how different people even 100 years will be in real life. I don't expect the show to be "future proof", but if they are going into the future, it would be good if they made some effort to think ahead.
I honestly don't see the massive hate for this one. I mean yeah it isn't great but I still enjoy it. That's the case with pretty much all of Tennant's era for me though.
This was my first David Tennant episode. I had finished season one and didn't know about the Christmas specials until almost done with Matt Smith. This episode gave 10 a bad rap for me, and it didn't help that at this point rose was fine with him as the doctor.
Mike Toth - did you never think ‘hold on, we’ve clearly skipped something here. Everything is different with no explanation.’ at the beginning of ANY series?
@@CulturePhilter I figured I was missing something but I just kept going. I was very confused. Even more so when they kept referring to Christmas, and the doctor's hand, and every time he said "what" at the end of each season. Also I went from journey's end to the eleventh hour, so I was originally like, ok, sometimes they skip the regeneration. It took me till season 7 to go back and watch the specials.
I think the whole arrogance and Time Lord Victorious comes from somewhere else. I think Tennants doctor is sick of doing so much with nothing changing and a feeling of being ignored. Notice how much it hurts him every time someone dies particularly in Midnight I think its shown. I believe Time Lord Victorius is him finally breaking and deciding he's just going to change things no matter what (especially since he knows he's going to die)
I actually preferred the chemistry with rose and 9. You actually see her repairing him bit by bit each episode. I like that. I've mentioned before it took me while to warm to tennent. Even on re watch I still can't take to him in the early eppiosodes. The reason I don't like this eppisode is because the doctor never even tried to see it from the cats pov. Like it's not too different from animal testing. I know that was what the show was going for (forcing political agender down our throats agai🙄). I just can't see the doctor bursting in to animal testing lab demanding it be shut down. He knows it goes on, but doesn't bother. To him all lives are important wether a rat, mouse, horse or human. I've never heard anyone bring that up before so maybe it's just me 🤷♀️
I've never had a problem with aliens resembling or being advanced Earth animals. That's actually something Doctor Who has sprinkled in for a long, long time. As long as it's sparse enough for the show and not an all the time thing. The show even has fun with the fact thaf they're cat people which is still amusing to me.
The stories of Cordwainer Smith made brilliant use of this - as human civilization spread, they genetically modified other Earth species into the Underpeople, who do a lot of the actual work. But Smith actually thought a lot about this, and used his stories to explore what this would mean. Sometimes the earnestness of his writing seems quaint, but in terms of both sci-fi and social commentary many of his stories had far more ideas than whole movies or television series.
Series 2 is so erratic it's not even funny. How can the same series have both Satan Pit and Fear Her? How can it have School Reunion and Girl in the Fireplace but also have Idiot's Lantern and this pile of crap?
I'd say it's a little different because Cat in Red Dwarf at least had in-series justification for existing. And Red Dwarf was always about absurdist comedy, so it doesn't pull you out of the story quite as much. At least, that's my take. Not a huge Red Dwarf fan myself, but of all the things that made me tilt my head and wonder wtf I was watching, Cat was near the bottom of the list, lol
Just wondering why the cat people here annoy you but you're on board with the Cat in Red Dwarf? I mean, it's the same premise. I'm not in love with them either, but I feel like Russell knew he should have developed them better because he explored it more in Gridlock, not only through the family with kittens, but the nun who stayed behind to nurse the Face of Bo. I actually enjoy this episode, mostly for the chemistry and the fun of the Doctor, Rose, and Cassandra. But you're right, the solution was overly simple and ridiculous. And Russell is prone to that. I love adding to the costume as you go, that's fabulous! PS: This was the episode that terrified my young daughter and she flatly refused to watch any more Doctor Who. Sigh. Just seeing the comments of those who saw it while young. I didn't think it was that bad or I wouldn't have shown it to her.
This was the very first dw episode I ever watched! So I do love it despite the elements to it people hate - the goofiness and the simple solution lol. As a kid, this was almost the right amount of fun and scary for me. And even tho I agree that the Doctor pouring every medicine into a vat and spraying it on himself and healing everyone by touch (which kinda sounds like the beginning of those errr religious undertones with this character lol but I'll just skip over that) just blatantly wouldn't work irl, I think it's still sweet that everyone gets hugged... I guess one of the diseases was loneliness... I cannot save this episode from it's total goofiness and cheesiness and weak resolution lol but I get that it's not for everyone. I kinda wondered while watching Jodie's season that if I were a kid when her season came out, would I love her series to the extent I'd feel happy enough to just ignore certain elements of it that I don't like now. I kinda wonder if the reason I'm so relaxed with Tennant's and Eccleston's episodes is because they're steeped in nostalgia for me. Guess I'll never know! But I do recognise certain issues with Tennant's era.. When I've rewatched episodes from season 2, I find it hard to get through the Madame de Pompadour episode and also School Reunion.... oh dear....
I'm not a kid now but I'm still happy to ignore stuff like that unless it's so blatantly like 'oh COME ON', because I just watch doctor who to enjoy and switch off a bit not nitpick really
I know my opinion will be very different to yours on this, but I sort of saw the cat-aliens as being a lampshading of aliens in sci-fi shows that are just blatantly humans with blue skin or no nose or whatever. I've always found that lazy (if understandable - there may be not enough budget to make something look sufficiently non-human), so I liked the idea that it could be done with something other than humans to change things up because another pet peeve of mine is the whole "humans spread across space and reproduced and that's why so many aliens look human-like". LET CATS SPREAD ACROSS SPACE TOO!!
@@CouncilofGeeks You know what, that's fair. While Doctor Who has had some good alien design (at least in regards of not looking just like a human) e.g. the slitheens, the hath, I can see why that might not be enough for some to start lampshading poor/lazy alien design
This is actually one of my favorite episodes to re-watch. I find it extremely entertaining and fun while also having a tiny dose of horror. The medicine thing might be dumb, but when has Doctor Who been about real science? Also, what aliens in Doctor Who aren't a little bit stupid? I don't typically watch the show for groundbreaking science and realism.
It's not that I need it to be real science, but honestly I'd rather have a technobabble solution with made up nonsense than one that I can understand well enough to see on its face that it's dumb.
❤Ha! Just re watched this last night. I liked it more then you did but the solution (ha) to the problem was quite ridiculous and felt too close to "Everybody lives".
Red Dwarf at least has in-series justification for how Cat came into existence (and his personality was a valuable object-lesson against inbreeding, lol). I'm not hating on the cat-people (i've played catfolk in D&D before. cat-people are awesome), but it does kind of feel like they couldn't be bothered to come up with a unique alien for the episode
Doctor Who has the exact same in-universe reason. And did a lot more work making them with the special effects, which is the opposite of lazy. And the whole thing seems kinda petty.
In the Red Dwarf universe, there are no "aliens". Everybody they encounter could loosely be called "post-humanity" - robots, mutants, synthetic humans, and other engineered lifeforms. So there is a reason for them running into cultures which are still Earth-centric. By contrast, Doctor Who supposedly has densely populated multiverses across all of time, where most life is supposedly truly alien. But you'd never know it, based upon what's on screen! IMO NuWho has always been too conservative, afraid to come off as overambitious yet cheap, like classic Who had a reputation for being. So it tends to go for the familiar. Which I agree with Nathaniel, is kind of lazy. It also ties in with NuWho being content to be more of a fantasy series with sci-fi trappings, rather than wanting to really deal with sci-fi concepts. So it doesn't question how you'd get parallel evolution of humans appearing on dozens of planets, many of whom have never heard of Earth or humans before. It's a modern version of Star Trek's "forehead aliens" trope, where it's easier to just stick rubber bits onto somebody's face, or paint them blue, than it is to actually invent a new kind of character - and hope that the viewers just accept this without questioning it too much. I am kind of the opposite. I like Who to be a bit more sci-fi, and less forced whimsy. And I see sci-fi as being a genre mainly of ideas. It is more important to me that Who tries new and interesting things. I don't really care if they are "convincing" or "realistic".
Eh, I kinda disagree with you. I do like the "animal person" design. I mean for me it's hard to come up with a complete alien design anyway. The nuns... okay, a little over the top, but I think some defensiveness was happening? I also didn't think that the solution works on a logistical level (they even confirm in the EPISODE that some of the diseases were incurable. Also they can cure other people just by touching them? Uh, no, that's not how ANY of this works.) but the emotional payoff was really big for me so it didn't bother me as much as it bothered you.
Have you ever thought about making an amateurish dr who movie. Because you have the editing skills, fanknowledge and props to make one. If bbc isnt too picky with fanfiction. And if you could do similar characters like the doctors archenemy the "mister". And the title doctor should be aviable to anyone. I would find the doctor having an archenemy named the "mister" really funny.
If you go back to the early days of this channel, you'll see that I originally did scripted shorts. And while I'd like to think I'd be a little better now than I was at the time, I also have a much better understanding of my own limitations in that area. A fan film is something I'd be happy to take part in, but would not want to be the primary driving force behind.
The skits i saw were entertaining and had at least sitcom quality. Writing a good script must be pretty diffcult. I guess thats why many do parodies or sitconm like stuff.
Yeah... This is the first Davies era episode you've reviewed that I don't like. It's just... weird. There's potential in an alien hospital using people as lab rats. But there's a world of difference between a good concept and good execution.
Wooooaaaaah...... hang on one moment..... did you not just break your own rule???? Would you not agree that the 'medicine' cure that makes no sense is EXACTLY the same issue I have with KERBLAM! and the popping bubble wrap...cos thats a plot hole - and you dont do plot holes (Hahaha - I win!.... joking of course) Damn it - I feel another law suit coming ;)
@@CouncilofGeeks but its integral to making the 'plot' work - it moves the story to its conclusion - plot related - doesnt work - thats a hole..... 1-0 to me ;)
Hi, my friend! I am working on an analysis for the current series and it's divided fanbase. Was wondering if I could feature your channel on the episode. I am trying to get a variety of opinions gathered and I would love to be able to feature you. I already had The Oldest Nerd, Late to the Party and MechaRandom say yes, and I am really hoping you'll say yes too. Much love!
For me, this was just a fun campy episode. I always enjoy it. I also cannot stand the cat people, they are almost as bad as the tree people in season one.
0:49 and you still said fourth doctor again 😂
ARGH!
@@CouncilofGeeks Don't blame Argh for your mistakes.
Russell T. Davis = Too silly
Steven Moffat = Too complicated
Chris Chibnall = Too boring
Can we return to Moffat or Davis? I would prefer to be silly and complicated than boring.
Steven moffat
Moffat was never too complicated, IMO. At his best, he was perfect. At his worst, he was just spread too thin. Even good writers don't have an infinite well of inspiration to write the majority of episodes for several shows at the same time - something is going to suffer.
I am kind of surprised that Davies hasn't come back to do the odd episode. I suspect that we'll see more brilliant writing like Turn Left or Midnight when he isn't saddled with producing duties also. Same goes for Moffat, although for him it would be too soon.
@@HereComesPopoBawa Agreed on Moffat spreaded out his complicated stories to thin.
1 - Moffat
2 - Davis
100 - Chibnall
Sorry, I like 13 but her stories written by Chibnall are boring maybe excluding the episode 10 of series 11 which was slightly better.
BBC should keep Whittaker but kick out Chibnall. Get Moffat or Davis back or someone good that can make stories not boring.
Paul McGann is the only classic-who Doctor actor that is still old enough to be in the role, I would like a 8 and 13 crossover.
@@modmaker7617 - There are two kinds of "interesting/boring" at play here. First there is the depth of the concepts of the show, be they science, drama, social commentary, or whatever. This is the area I think needs to be strengthened. But secondly we've got what I call "short attention-span theatre" - psychological tricks to make something seem exciting, even if nothing really happens. Kind of like that stilted, in-your-face over acting that you see in advertising, and some UA-camrs: flashing lights, manic gestures, shouting, irrelevant pop culture references, frenetic camerawork and editing, loud music, etc. And Who has been filthy with that stuff.
I can look past it when I otherwise like other elements of the story. But it's something NuWho has gotten worse about over the years. Poking you in the eyes and ears, elbowing you in the ribs and blowing a party horn to declare "Get ready for forced whimsy and wacky adventure! About... McGuffins and handwavium!" So one of the few areas that I think that the current season has been a vast improvement is to get rid of all that superficial hype. But unfortunately, it has not compensated by becoming more conceptually interesting, either. So part of me worries to what extent the viewers and creators are aware of this difference. And when I read so many complaints that the show is less loud, brash, and in-your-face - it suggests to me that what others want are what I am happy it has left behind, and was never part of the show's core concept anyway.
Russell has silly moments yeah but overall I find his era to be the more serious and heartbreaking. This is highlighted in episodes like
“Midnight”
“Turn Left”
“Waters of Mars”
“Doomsday”
“Journey’s End”
“The Parting of The Ways”
It's okay, you have 3 series worth of reviews to get the pinstripe suit and coat.
Don't forget the Specials!
New Earth was a classic 'gentle' and fun episode ... the type RTD did SO well at the start of his seasons, just to ease the viewers into the new series, and allow the Doctor to have a daft adventure.
I always loved how instant the chemistry was between Piper and Tennant, and Billie was excellent throughout the episode.
Yeah Pipers acting in this was brilliant. When shes Casandra it really felt like casandra, not piper acting like her.
When I first watched this as a child I genuinely thought they got someone else to voice Rose while she was Cassandra. Nope, just excellent acting.
"Let's throw *ALL* the medicine at them!!!" -- reminds me of some doctors I've had the misfortune of seeing in the past...
I also always forget how self proud 10 was early on, but I love how consistent his own character arc is over 3 seasons, as he goes from embracing his self importance early on, which dies down a lot in season 3 until his "Lonley God" moments in Family of Blood and the finale where we are how powerful and strong he really is, but how he hates to show this. He still has great authority but is more relaxed I think. Then by season 4 he is struggling with the idea of wanting to use his power over time and space to change things for the better, but not being allowed to. This is why I feel Donna made such a good companion: she made him change and progressed his character arc further, building on what we have already seen him struggle with, and this concept peakes with Waters of Mars, where he reaffirms his abilities and importance as a Time Lord, decides he can change things, and get ultimately fails. It's an amazing arc for the 10th doctor which I appriciate far more now having rewatched his whole run recently, as his progression and struggle with power develops so naturally.
Peter .Cartwright You mean egotistical? Anyway that wasn’t just early on, that’s all the way through. If you don’t like 10 being egotistical then you don’t like 10 at all. End of.
Good point about Donna because she's one that doesn't really take any shit from him while Rose and Martha always kinda put him on a pedestal and were idolizing him a bit much.
Donna really was what 10 needed in the end of his run ^^
I enjoy this mostly for the performances of Billie and David when the Doctor and Rose are being possessed by Cassandra. Especially the Doctor "Oh baby, I'm beating out a samba!" always cracks me up.
That said, it's cheesy as hell, this episode, and I guess the first episode with a new Doctor after the regeneration is always going to be a bit rocky but this really is...cheesy. I am always amused at him saying "I know a bit about medicine!" as he's just dumping random medications in the vat and as you say, just spraying it over them and letting them touch each other.
Though I do enjoy his excitement with "Pass it on! Pass it on!" and his thrill at seeing everyone alright and healthy enough to have a real life. So mixed feelings, and honestly most of the time I skip over some bits to get to the parts I do enjoy.
I hate the term "cheesy", because I just love cheese (really, I do!). Episodes like New Earth are more like a fake cheese that one sprays out of a can.
I always tend to disagree with you, but no matter how our opinions differ I want to thank you for making this content. I didn’t even subscribe for the Doctor Who stuff in particular, but you’ve reignited my passion for it.
I was always terrified of the Flesh in this episode when I was younger. Looking at it now, it’s strange to see how poorly the CGI transformation of the cat nurses changing into the diseased has aged.. not too scared now
EDIT: Also, the hospital shop joke was also in S03E01, “Smith and Jones”
I think the quality of a really good reviewer or commentator is that, agree or disagree, you can still appreciate their content. There are reviewers I totally agree with on every subject who I can't be bothered to watch because their lack of enthusiasm and passion could cure insomnia, or their over-the-top militancy or "only I am right!" stance make me want to puke. It's always nice to find a channel that's struck the right balance. Especially one with such a civil comment section :)
Kat K Well said. It is, after all, great content that inspires loyalty and enthusiasm
@@Elcrisso1 :)
Everyone complained about the low budget quality, of (the show) the 1st & 2nd season.
Most, fans where willing to, kind of, over look it, the first season..
But, Half way through the 1st season-- it was becoming popular and fans where disappointed that no extra effort in FX quality /increases in the production budget..
which, made it hard for fans to promote & defend the show, to friends..
Kosh 963 When you’re an 8 year old boy like I was back in 2006, visual effects pail in comparison to the terrors of a child’s imagination. In my eyes those cat people and the infected were as realistic back then as some of cinemas moved visually realistic characters such as Golem from LOTR of Caesar from Planet of the Apes
"...some of my least favourite ever" Looking forward to the 'Love and Monsters' review
Honestly, the camera is fine, get the suit, treat yourself lol
It's kind of weird thinking that Tennent is often regarding as 1 if the best Doctors ever, and yet his 1st season didn't start off that well.
This episode aired as a rerun on Disney XD and is how I got invested in the franchise as my first episode to click with me. I had already seen a bit of An Unearthly Child and the 2nd two parter in Series 5 but this hooked me.
He also brought up the "little shop" in Smith and Jones.
Tennant also made the little shop reference in the series 3 Opener Smith and Jones with Martha when they are hiding from the Judoon behind the plants on the balcony and Tennant can see the little shop.
The Doctor loved shops so much, he got a job in one in Closing Time!
Idk why, probably because I was 10 when I first watched it and didn't pick up on it, but it took me a long time to pick up that this whole episode is basically arguing against animal testing in medical research and shows the Doctor (or at least, this version) is against it. They probably could have delved more into the parallels tbh.
Edit: Just to add, I find it funny that they sneak in this episode which heavily goes after animal testing and no one bats an eyelid over the politicial themes, but series 11 has a few politically themed stories and suddenly it's too PC.
I'll be honest, my love for this is very strong. This is honestly one of my favorite episodes *period* because of the lab rat thing. As a kid that pretty much grew up in a hospital (I got burnt at a very young age that required a lot of my life to be spent under extensive medical care) the lack of bodily autonomy was particularly horrific for me. The thought of not knowing life outside of what they've been through felt extremely personal, and as cheesy as the *let's throw all the medicine on them* is, when I watched it as a child it felt nice to see someone be able to be completely cured. Truth is I've still got my grafts. I'll never be 100%, but seeing those people being able to be 100% made this one of the most satisfying stories of the entire run. Funny, cause 10 and Rose are actually one of my least favorite duos.
Why is it that every season up until 5 (apart from 4) covers something that connects to the second episode from Season 1:
This
Gridlock
Beast Below
Because writers can easily add a feeling of depth by referencing their own work? I think Davies did better when referencing actual characters and events, instead of dropping portentous-sounding phrases in multiple episodes.
Khajiit has wares if you have coin.
Don't leave your treasures ignored
Get bigger bolts on your doors
And tougher locks on your drawers
Watch the street...
You see the stealth is an art
Pick your tumblers apart
You know you never can outsmart
A Khajiit
I’ve said before to people. If you’re fine with the Judoon then you’re fine with the Sisters of Plenitude.
Kind of agree.
That said, I like both, but I actually like the Cat people better than I like the Judoon.
Andrew Hayden that’s a pretty big leap in logic, would you mind explaining it a bit deeper?
@@EmileeAria413 "There just animals you know but as sentient, semi-humaniod aliens!" At least Catkind has an excuse of being originally Earth cats that evolved. The Judoon have no connection to Earth as far as I know.
MrLegendofLP They both look like earth animals. Judoon are rhinos. Sisters of Plenitude are cats.
@@andrewhayden9545 I guess, but I find the Judoon much better designed because it's not "A human with this animal's features" which you can find anywhere on the internet, it's a bipedal rhino. Not much more creative but it didn't distract me like the Sisters of Plentitude.
I think all the major carry over companions have all had improved chemistry with the new Doctor. I'm thinking here of Sarah Jane going from Pertwee to Baker. Rose from Ecclestone to Tennent and Clara from Smith to Capaldi. Interesting.
Darren Signal - that’s a really good point and one I hadn’t considered before.
"...Rose from Ecclestone to Tennent..." - Strongly disagree. Not only the chemistry changed, but Rose's entire characterization shifted also. The two of them had less dynamic and nuance between them, and struck me as being insufferably smug. It was the only era of Doctor Who that I tuned out and avoided watching as it aired.
That's Fair
The cat design haunts my dreams…
Not as bad as Cats the movie. At least the nuns wore clothes
The solution for that episode is one of the stupidest solutions I’ve heard in all of fiction.
I don't hate "New Earth," don't love, but don't hate it; but I do have to agree with you guys. It is a stupid solution.
I just love your videos. Your personality and the way you think are just awesome. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions with the world and for making all these wonderful videos. I appreciate it greatly, and it's helped inspire me to make my own videos again. You're the best!
Best of luck!
@@CouncilofGeeks Thank you!
Mentioning Billie Piper's chemistry with Eccleston and Tennant, she also had good chemistry with John Hurt in the 50th anniversary special, though of course she wasn't technically playing Rose in that.
I never knew DT was the 4th Doctor.
Technically he is the 4th NuWho Doctor, because Eight appeared in the 2013 NuWho short "The Night of the Doctor", and regenerated into the War Doctor who appeared in the 50th anniversary "The Day of the Doctor", and he regenerated into Eccleston (who I don't think I need to explain) and then into Ten, making him the 4th Doctor that has appeared in NuWho (First Doctor in "Twice Upon a Time" (2017) dosen't count, as there was a gap between him and Eight).
5:19 As someone who is wholeheartedly against animal testing in any form, I took this as a "hey, the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly it's not ok" kinda thing. It's not something I thought of on my first watch, but I did think of it on later rewatches years later.
When you think about it, almost every Doctor had different degrees of arrogance.
Yes, but I think Tennant's is the most nakedly on display behind the Sixth and maybe the early First.
I remember disliking Tennant as the Doctor because I loved Christopher's (he was my 1st). Also because I had a negative association with him from HP GOF (subconscious at first). But know I also realized that it was is instant over confidence & authoritarianism that was also off putting. His doctor just felt too different.
9:29 I want that as my text alert
It’s been a long time since I saw this episode. I find Cassandra to be quite a hoot.
The doctor mentions the gift shop a lot I think that you might have missed some, like in the episode "Smith and Jones".
New Earth will always be my favourite Who episode :)
You'll get there. You should style your hair as the doctors
Instead of cat nuns, I would love to see a Doctor Who adventure with the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence.
Your criticisms are all entirely valid, but I love this episode. I love the campy cat people and the nonsensical brightly-coloured resolution to the plot. And I LOVE Tennant playing Cassandra. And his runs of words - “new newnewnewnew new new new newnewnew new new new NEW New York” makes me smile every time. The nostalgia goggles are thick on this one.
It's not bad.
I don't mind the cat people - I actually quite liked that they looked like the Cheetah people in Survival.
Agree with most of your other points.
My issue with Season 2 was the general lack of variation in setting - too much modern Earth (1950-2012) - including the alternate reality 2-parter and made even worse if you watch the 2 Specials that bookend this season close together.
I mean you have New Earth, Tooth and Claw, Girl in the Fireplace, Impossible Planet & Satan Pit - and that's it for different settings? In 15 Episodes.
That's why I can't hate New Earth too much - because it gave some variety to the season even if it's far from the best.
The rest of Season 2 is modern day (2 Specials & 4 Episodes) , recent past (1 Episode), near future (1 Episode), and alternate reality (2 Episodes).
In regards to the comment on "lazy creature design", I can mostly agree with what you're saying but it is still leaps and bounds ahead of the creatures in the new series. With a couple of exceptions (those being the Pting and the spiders) they were pretty much indistinguishable from humans, and even the two that weren't didn't seem to have been given any thought beyond "a gremlin but on a spaceship" or "a spider just really really big".
This season is such a weird one. It’s got The Rise of the Cybermen/Age Of Steel, The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit, School Reunion, The Girl in the Fireplace, and Doomsday, but it ALSO has Love and Monsters, Fear Her, New Earth and The Idiot’s Lantern. Such a mixed, MIXED bag.
I think the good far outweighs the bad.
This seasons had excellent two partners which I always consider to be the most important episodes to get right.
You could easily skip over Fear Her/New Earth/The Idiot’s Lantern/Love & Monsters and not miss a thing.
Props off and hats to you! I like this episode, it's both very silly and very dark at the same time!
So it was Davies who started the Doctor's unreasonable belief in his own power and authority. I tend to think of it in connection with Matt Smith's first episode and his absurd dismissal of the Atraxi (who could have fried him to a crisp for his impudence); but I see that Moffat didn't start this, he just carried it on. It's most regrettable. In the 20th century I think the Doctor was just a lone eccentric living on his wits; long-lived, yes, but with no particular power or authority, except as an 'advisor' to UNIT. I liked him that way.
@MidAtlanticGal Unfortunately, for the Doctor to live on his or her wits requires the cleverness to come from the writers, and in Series 11 it hasn't been there. So the 13th Doctor has been obliged to live on the weakness of her opponents, and the help of her magic wand that does everything.
School boy lol i suppose it will work for school reunion
It was my first episode. Holds a special place no matter how bad.
I never really rewatch this episode. Series 2 started off pretty bad, but this story does have some decent moments, the scenes with the face of boe, the ending where the doctor hugs everyone and says “I’m the doctor and I cured them!” It’s good. But this story is just slow paced and not much to be excited about. It had a great concept that I can see in the classic series, maybe Jon’s era. But they could’ve done so much more and made this fast paced and kinda creepy. I’d rate this 3.5/10 but I also don’t like how Cassandra possesses rose and kisses the doctor and they kinda dry hump eachother, it felt cheesy and forced for people who want rose and ten together. Oh well.
For me the cat-people work for how they’re used here, when you think about how cats are the idea that with greater intelligence they could end up doing what they do, where they seem to be all cute and want to help people, but don’t really have much empathy. Does make sense. Also how they quarantine the building, trapping themselves inside, kind of shows nuance. Agree with what you said about the resolution being stupid though.
It
This episode wasn't the greatest but it was a good intro to 10 and it had its fun moments, especially when they were possessed by Cassandra. But I always laugh at the beginning when they are standing on the grassy hill, because of the DVD commentary where they mention that there were gale force winds that day, and they couldn't get through the scene because every time David looked at Billie, all he could see was hair covering her face and he would burst out laughing.
I think there *was* romantic chemistry between Rose and Nine towards the end of his time, it sort of warmed up slowly as the first season progressed; that's my view anyway! Still, things obviously changed with the regeneration, and it helped that Ten was more attractive (sorry Eccleston!).
In fact, I think I heard the idea somewhere that maybe Nine regenerated into someone who Rose would find attractive because of the (perhaps subconscious) romantic feelings that already existed at the time of his regeneration. Probably not canonical?
Btw, Tennant had not only white, but also burgundy, blue, and navy shirts.
With Chris' departure, they wanted familiarity, so Cassandra was brought back, this is explicit from RTD. The story has lots of flaws, but it's strength/emotional impact comes from her redemption/death.
Does the Cat in Red Dwarf also offend? ;)
I must confess to tears when the Cat priest passed.
No, the Cat is awesome. But that's because he's a character with distinctly cat like traits, plus it's an overt comedy so different standards apply. Here, the nuns could have literally been anything and nothing about the story changes save for a few lines of dialogue.
@@CouncilofGeeks Also, Cat looks almost human, so that sort of subverts the 'animal person' trope of a humanoid with animal fur (or other obvious features), and forces his distinction with humans to be based on character, the opposite of lazy in my book!
This first time I watched this I was so angry. It honestly pissed me off the way 10 treated rose for the first little bit of time. It honestly felt like he didn't care at first. Until I realized he did lol.
Honestly, I don't really see the downside to comparing the dynamics a carryover companion has with different doctors. Even if they have better chemistry with one or the other, I still think the contrast is valuable in and of itself.
There was much in the episode that was different and therefor entertaining. Having a cat person is a nice twist. From a science fiction perspective, say a thousand years from now, what it means to be human might be more "fluid". Human machine hybrids would be likely. Some people might experiment with different types of biological forms.
I agree, but they don't really go anywhere with this. They show people from 50,000 years in the future and don't understand how different people even 100 years will be in real life. I don't expect the show to be "future proof", but if they are going into the future, it would be good if they made some effort to think ahead.
I honestly don't see the massive hate for this one. I mean yeah it isn't great but I still enjoy it. That's the case with pretty much all of Tennant's era for me though.
This was my first David Tennant episode. I had finished season one and didn't know about the Christmas specials until almost done with Matt Smith. This episode gave 10 a bad rap for me, and it didn't help that at this point rose was fine with him as the doctor.
Mike Toth - did you never think ‘hold on, we’ve clearly skipped something here. Everything is different with no explanation.’ at the beginning of ANY series?
@@CulturePhilter I figured I was missing something but I just kept going. I was very confused. Even more so when they kept referring to Christmas, and the doctor's hand, and every time he said "what" at the end of each season. Also I went from journey's end to the eleventh hour, so I was originally like, ok, sometimes they skip the regeneration. It took me till season 7 to go back and watch the specials.
I think the whole arrogance and Time Lord Victorious comes from somewhere else. I think Tennants doctor is sick of doing so much with nothing changing and a feeling of being ignored. Notice how much it hurts him every time someone dies particularly in Midnight I think its shown. I believe Time Lord Victorius is him finally breaking and deciding he's just going to change things no matter what (especially since he knows he's going to die)
I actually preferred the chemistry with rose and 9. You actually see her repairing him bit by bit each episode. I like that.
I've mentioned before it took me while to warm to tennent. Even on re watch I still can't take to him in the early eppiosodes.
The reason I don't like this eppisode is because the doctor never even tried to see it from the cats pov. Like it's not too different from animal testing. I know that was what the show was going for (forcing political agender down our throats agai🙄). I just can't see the doctor bursting in to animal testing lab demanding it be shut down. He knows it goes on, but doesn't bother. To him all lives are important wether a rat, mouse, horse or human.
I've never heard anyone bring that up before so maybe it's just me 🤷♀️
I've never had a problem with aliens resembling or being advanced Earth animals. That's actually something Doctor Who has sprinkled in for a long, long time. As long as it's sparse enough for the show and not an all the time thing. The show even has fun with the fact thaf they're cat people which is still amusing to me.
The stories of Cordwainer Smith made brilliant use of this - as human civilization spread, they genetically modified other Earth species into the Underpeople, who do a lot of the actual work. But Smith actually thought a lot about this, and used his stories to explore what this would mean. Sometimes the earnestness of his writing seems quaint, but in terms of both sci-fi and social commentary many of his stories had far more ideas than whole movies or television series.
Series 2 is so erratic it's not even funny. How can the same series have both Satan Pit and Fear Her? How can it have School Reunion and Girl in the Fireplace but also have Idiot's Lantern and this pile of crap?
What about the Cat in red dwarf?
I'd say it's a little different because Cat in Red Dwarf at least had in-series justification for existing. And Red Dwarf was always about absurdist comedy, so it doesn't pull you out of the story quite as much. At least, that's my take. Not a huge Red Dwarf fan myself, but of all the things that made me tilt my head and wonder wtf I was watching, Cat was near the bottom of the list, lol
Just wondering why the cat people here annoy you but you're on board with the Cat in Red Dwarf? I mean, it's the same premise. I'm not in love with them either, but I feel like Russell knew he should have developed them better because he explored it more in Gridlock, not only through the family with kittens, but the nun who stayed behind to nurse the Face of Bo. I actually enjoy this episode, mostly for the chemistry and the fun of the Doctor, Rose, and Cassandra. But you're right, the solution was overly simple and ridiculous. And Russell is prone to that.
I love adding to the costume as you go, that's fabulous!
PS: This was the episode that terrified my young daughter and she flatly refused to watch any more Doctor Who. Sigh. Just seeing the comments of those who saw it while young. I didn't think it was that bad or I wouldn't have shown it to her.
This was the very first dw episode I ever watched! So I do love it despite the elements to it people hate - the goofiness and the simple solution lol. As a kid, this was almost the right amount of fun and scary for me. And even tho I agree that the Doctor pouring every medicine into a vat and spraying it on himself and healing everyone by touch (which kinda sounds like the beginning of those errr religious undertones with this character lol but I'll just skip over that) just blatantly wouldn't work irl, I think it's still sweet that everyone gets hugged... I guess one of the diseases was loneliness... I cannot save this episode from it's total goofiness and cheesiness and weak resolution lol but I get that it's not for everyone. I kinda wondered while watching Jodie's season that if I were a kid when her season came out, would I love her series to the extent I'd feel happy enough to just ignore certain elements of it that I don't like now. I kinda wonder if the reason I'm so relaxed with Tennant's and Eccleston's episodes is because they're steeped in nostalgia for me. Guess I'll never know! But I do recognise certain issues with Tennant's era.. When I've rewatched episodes from season 2, I find it hard to get through the Madame de Pompadour episode and also School Reunion.... oh dear....
I'm not a kid now but I'm still happy to ignore stuff like that unless it's so blatantly like 'oh COME ON', because I just watch doctor who to enjoy and switch off a bit not nitpick really
I know my opinion will be very different to yours on this, but I sort of saw the cat-aliens as being a lampshading of aliens in sci-fi shows that are just blatantly humans with blue skin or no nose or whatever. I've always found that lazy (if understandable - there may be not enough budget to make something look sufficiently non-human), so I liked the idea that it could be done with something other than humans to change things up because another pet peeve of mine is the whole "humans spread across space and reproduced and that's why so many aliens look human-like". LET CATS SPREAD ACROSS SPACE TOO!!
My usual problem with lampshade hanging is that all you've done is highlight a problem rather than deal with it, and I feel that applies here.
@@CouncilofGeeks You know what, that's fair. While Doctor Who has had some good alien design (at least in regards of not looking just like a human) e.g. the slitheens, the hath, I can see why that might not be enough for some to start lampshading poor/lazy alien design
This is actually one of my favorite episodes to re-watch. I find it extremely entertaining and fun while also having a tiny dose of horror. The medicine thing might be dumb, but when has Doctor Who been about real science? Also, what aliens in Doctor Who aren't a little bit stupid? I don't typically watch the show for groundbreaking science and realism.
It's not that I need it to be real science, but honestly I'd rather have a technobabble solution with made up nonsense than one that I can understand well enough to see on its face that it's dumb.
@@CouncilofGeeks that makes sense to me though I guess I can suspend disbelief enough because it's the distant future
Review Angel's take Manhattan please if you haven't already!
I'm doing these in order, so... tune in when March 2020 rolls around.
❤Ha! Just re watched this last night. I liked it more then you did but the solution (ha) to the problem was quite ridiculous and felt too close to "Everybody lives".
Apple grass!!!
Moisterize me!
Jzargo is glad to see khajid in medical profession. And khajid allowed in city. khajid respected.
jzargo disagrees cat people bad
Yeah I agree. Avatar was Crap!!!
So he was upset that they took an animal and made it a human character saying it was lazy but he loves the cat from red dwarf? Which is just the same
Red Dwarf at least has in-series justification for how Cat came into existence (and his personality was a valuable object-lesson against inbreeding, lol). I'm not hating on the cat-people (i've played catfolk in D&D before. cat-people are awesome), but it does kind of feel like they couldn't be bothered to come up with a unique alien for the episode
Red Dwarf is a comedy show to be fair
Red Dwarf is a comedy that has an in-universe justification for The Cat. Doctor Who isn't and doesn't.
Doctor Who has the exact same in-universe reason. And did a lot more work making them with the special effects, which is the opposite of lazy.
And the whole thing seems kinda petty.
In the Red Dwarf universe, there are no "aliens". Everybody they encounter could loosely be called "post-humanity" - robots, mutants, synthetic humans, and other engineered lifeforms. So there is a reason for them running into cultures which are still Earth-centric.
By contrast, Doctor Who supposedly has densely populated multiverses across all of time, where most life is supposedly truly alien. But you'd never know it, based upon what's on screen! IMO NuWho has always been too conservative, afraid to come off as overambitious yet cheap, like classic Who had a reputation for being. So it tends to go for the familiar. Which I agree with Nathaniel, is kind of lazy. It also ties in with NuWho being content to be more of a fantasy series with sci-fi trappings, rather than wanting to really deal with sci-fi concepts. So it doesn't question how you'd get parallel evolution of humans appearing on dozens of planets, many of whom have never heard of Earth or humans before. It's a modern version of Star Trek's "forehead aliens" trope, where it's easier to just stick rubber bits onto somebody's face, or paint them blue, than it is to actually invent a new kind of character - and hope that the viewers just accept this without questioning it too much.
I am kind of the opposite. I like Who to be a bit more sci-fi, and less forced whimsy. And I see sci-fi as being a genre mainly of ideas. It is more important to me that Who tries new and interesting things. I don't really care if they are "convincing" or "realistic".
The thing I don't get about Billie Piper is why she gotta play that song so loud?
Because she wants to. 😉
Eh, I kinda disagree with you. I do like the "animal person" design. I mean for me it's hard to come up with a complete alien design anyway. The nuns... okay, a little over the top, but I think some defensiveness was happening? I also didn't think that the solution works on a logistical level (they even confirm in the EPISODE that some of the diseases were incurable. Also they can cure other people just by touching them? Uh, no, that's not how ANY of this works.) but the emotional payoff was really big for me so it didn't bother me as much as it bothered you.
Have you ever thought about making an amateurish dr who movie. Because you have the editing skills, fanknowledge and props to make one. If bbc isnt too picky with fanfiction. And if you could do similar characters like the doctors archenemy the "mister". And the title doctor should be aviable to anyone. I would find the doctor having an archenemy named the "mister" really funny.
If you go back to the early days of this channel, you'll see that I originally did scripted shorts. And while I'd like to think I'd be a little better now than I was at the time, I also have a much better understanding of my own limitations in that area. A fan film is something I'd be happy to take part in, but would not want to be the primary driving force behind.
Thanks for responding, will look it up.
I hope you get the chance one day to take part in a fan project.
The skits i saw were entertaining and had at least sitcom quality. Writing a good script must be pretty diffcult. I guess thats why many do parodies or sitconm like stuff.
Yeah... This is the first Davies era episode you've reviewed that I don't like. It's just... weird. There's potential in an alien hospital using people as lab rats. But there's a world of difference between a good concept and good execution.
I’m heartbroken by your disdain for the cat people 😢
Wooooaaaaah...... hang on one moment..... did you not just break your own rule???? Would you not agree that the 'medicine' cure that makes no sense is EXACTLY the same issue I have with KERBLAM! and the popping bubble wrap...cos thats a plot hole - and you dont do plot holes (Hahaha - I win!.... joking of course) Damn it - I feel another law suit coming ;)
I don't consider the medicine thing to be a plot hole, it's a logic leap that feels really cheap. It's totally functional plot wise. It's just dumb.
@@CouncilofGeeks but its integral to making the 'plot' work - it moves the story to its conclusion - plot related - doesnt work - thats a hole..... 1-0 to me ;)
The sisters of plentitude are just furries
Haha, “embodying”...sorry.
Worst part... that was unintentional.
Hi, my friend! I am working on an analysis for the current series and it's divided fanbase. Was wondering if I could feature your channel on the episode. I am trying to get a variety of opinions gathered and I would love to be able to feature you. I already had The Oldest Nerd, Late to the Party and MechaRandom say yes, and I am really hoping you'll say yes too. Much love!
MechaRandom is a hater.
How dare you hate on cat-people!?
What can I say? I'm a dog person.Also Red Dwarf did it better.
Well… you're just wrong. That's basically the same as being a dog-person.
For me, this was just a fun campy episode. I always enjoy it. I also cannot stand the cat people, they are almost as bad as the tree people in season one.
New Earth is 100% Gold compared to the Whitakker season :-)
Whittaker's series are good.