I thought it was brilliant. Not because I think the Doctor was right, quite the opposite. It points out something that the fandom often is happy to overlook. The Doctor is not a good man. He tries to be, but he often has psychopathic tendencies, amplified by that we humans aren't even exactly his species and he often views us beneath him. Moffat build on this in his own run, but he didn't really get his message across (he just can't do characters that well, often informing us rather than showing us character traits and sometimes even changing aspects between episodes). On RTDs term it culminated in the Timelord Victorious. Honestly, watching Tennant as properly frightening Killgrave and than thinking about how his two most impresive characters really were... Britain and the world was set up to a golden decade thanks to Harriet Jones, Prime Minister. He changed that on a whim, leading to a decade mirroring our own universe (OK, writing wise that was quite useful) and even made room for Harold Saxxon a ka the Master (why couldn't she call herself master later on, btw?) in that position.
The Doctor can DO good things, but yeah... anyone who watches the very first story, "An Unearthly Child", knows that the 1st Doctor was willing to bludgeon a caveman to death just because it was easier; it was his human companions who mellowed him out, but almost every later incarnation of the Doctor has shown some level of ferocity, of vicious ruthlessness underneath. Heck, the 5th and 8th Doctors are probably the nicest so far (jury's still out on the 13th), and both of them were ultimately rather powerless much of the time to the point that their regenerations led to more dangerous successors (the 6th and War Doctors, respectively).
Ten has had some *truly* vindictive moments during his tenure. Not just Harriet Jones but the Family of Blood. Killing them would have been so much kinder than trapping them for all eternity like he did. He also would have killed the Racnoss children if Donna hadn't stopped him. Man had a nasty temper once you actually managed to upset him.
Kat K He DID end up killing the Racnoss children, though. Donna only stopped him from staying and drowning himself, as we find out happens if she isn’t there in “Turn Left”. Ten massacred a whole race of children for something they couldn’t help, which was their voracious appetites. It was the Racnoss Queen that wanted to use earth as a feeding ground. But Ten decided to punish the species as a whole and commit a mass genocide. Donna even mentions that he’d changed when he decided not to kill the Adipose children when they meet again, telling her that they can’t help it.... that they’re just children. I love Ten, he’s my Doctor.... but he’s a very flawed, petty, and vengeful being when he wants to be.
@@joshuaescopete Oh, my bad. It's been years since I watched that particular episode (love Ten/Donna and just Donna in general to death, but that one ep just doesn't do it for me) so I'd kind of forgotten the specifics except the part where Donna stopped him from doing *something* that would somehow lead to the end of the world, lol. I like Ten, but... yeah. I feel like every regeneration is a reaction to the one that came before, so Eleven's "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have to many!" may very well be a direct response to that particular facet of Ten.
Kat K No worries!! Just being a typical internet watchdog.😝 I do agree with you that Eleven definitely learned from Tens mistakes and is better at seeing things as a whole, as opposed to being Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
@@joshuaescopete Hey, nothing wrong with being a pedantic fact-monger ;) I also feel like Eleven really enjoyed throwing around Ten's reputation for being a cruel, vindictive jerkass at times: "Ever heard of the Doctor? Yeah, that's me. Basically run!" ^wicked grin^
Kat K Very true. By the time he turns into Eleven, the Doctor has become a legend throughout the Universe. But that also ends up hurting him when the Papal Mainframe steals Amy’s Baby to create an assassin for the Doctor. He’s known to bring hope but also, death and destruction follow wherever he goes. Which prompts Twelve to become introspective regress inward, questioning whether or not he’s even a good man.
Amy Pond: So this was a good idea was it? They were leaving! The Doctor: Leaving is good - never coming back is better! I've often wondered if Moffett wanted to try and do a new spin on the Harriet Jones scene in Eleventh Hour. I did think the Doctor was a bit hard on her.
The thing is, in the slitheen two parter at the end the ninth doctor says Harriet Jones is a future prime minister and creates the golden age for Britain, so in this story where the tenth doctor (at the end) ruins her career, the doctor just robbed Britain of its golden age? But uncalled for and tbh what Harriet did was right. They were gonna tell other species about earth, that would only anger them as I’m assuming the sycorax are a warrior type race.
Anish S well yes, but it was most likely always seemed as a vulnerable and weak planet which meant the warrior races wouldn’t want to invade as they were probably looking for a challenge, but if the news went out that Earth was strong and armed then more species would try to invade looking for both honour and battles, so yeah.
Eh... It often feels to me like I'm the only one of the opinion that NEITHER one of them was right: Harriet Jones was wrong to kill the Sycorax, and the Doctor was wrong to depose her, assuming that he knew best about these things; in the latter case especially, the 10th Doctor is a particularly sanctimonious, self-righteous incarnation of the Doctor, and this isn't the last time he considers himself morally superior to everyone around him. Ironic that whenever the Doctor has been made President of Gallifrey he balks at actually holding the position, yet multiple incarnations of the character think they know what's best for other people. As for Harriet... look, I'm not going to argue that what she did was not NECESSARY, perhaps. Understandable certainly, as she points out the Sycorax murdered two good men in front of her without hesitation; she's also not wrong that the Doctor isn't always around to help, for various reasons (can't be everywhere at once, the TARDIS brings them where they are needed based on the timeline, etc.) and destroying the ship is an effective demonstration of power regardless of them retreating rather than continuing the attack. It is, however, STILL murder in its own right, and murder is never EVER "right"; it might be pragmatic, it might be necessary, but it's never OK. We can argue about self-defence all we like, this isn't a case of that. And the thing is, I don't think the narrative HAS ever tried to paint Harriet as being in the right for her actions even in her own eyes, anymore than it's tried (if you look at the subtext) to treat her as morally-repugnant beyond simply the Doctor's biased view. Harriet knows what she's doing is awful, but she'll do it because she is a LEADER; she cannot keep her soul untainted if doing so comes at the cost of human life, and while she's not strictly xenophobic she knows her priority is to her race first and foremost. Unfortunately, the Doctor cannot - or will not - see that perspective, so despite having seen her to be a good person before this he judges her as a monster for her actions (perhaps projecting a bit strongly there, mate) and decides to derail history. And with the examples later set by Harold Saxon and Brian Green (at least), we all know how well THAT turned out. It's worth noting that Russel T. Davies has said that a lot of the 10th Doctor's morally-skeevy attributes were deliberate on his part, and that even if he's not always called on it directly he faces the consequences of what he does, HOW he does it, and so on. In the case of Harriet Jones, RTD originally intended that the Master gloat onscreen in "The Last of the Time Lords" about how the Doctor had given him an opening to insert himself as Prime Minister of the UK, specifically citing Harriet's deposition; he dropped this because he felt the Doctor was put through the ringer too much in that episode, though I think he was compensating for it a series later in "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" - there, Harriet sacrifices herself to get the Doctor in touch with his friends on Earth and stop Davros' plans, and when Rose tells him he's wearing a look of horrified guilt at having misjudged Harriet and the fact she STILL helped him even after what he did to her... Another example is that according to RTD, the Doctor and Rose were in part responsible for their separation in "Doomsday"; their behaving like adrenaline junkies excited about danger, while people were dying around them, led Queen Victoria to found Torchwood - which in turn led to the Battle of Canary Wharf over 100 years later, which led to Rose being stuck in the alternate universe indefinitely.
The ideas behind the killer Christmas tree and robot Santa stem from the very traditional - and indeed very British - Pantomime humour. Yes, they're conceptually daft, but they are festively appropriate. Christmas telly in the UK has always been a bit silly.
The way I see it the Doctor a d Harriet Jones both had a point. What she did was like shooting a defeated opponent in the back as they walked away. But she was also correct in that the Doctor couldn't always be there. And her motivation was purely to protect her own people, not vengeance or anything like that. I like how later, when she returns in the Series 4 finale, it's to co tact the Doctor when he is away and needed. Bottom line it shows how not everything is simply black or white and sometimes there is no right answer.
"Don't you think she looks tired" is a reference to one of Thatcher's aides remarking that she looked tired leading to a media frenzy that supposedly led to a vote of no confidence, and the firing on the retreating Sycorax ship is a reference to the sinking of the Belgrano that was sailing away from the Falklands and was outside the exclusion zone when it occurred. Since Harriet Jones' first outing was a political satire (or at least a series of in-jokes for the politically aware) about 911 and the fallacious claims about Iraq's WMDs it made sense that her second outing would also be a piece of political satire, albeit a far less topical one! (Commenting on 1980s politics in 2005! So edgy!) Unfortunately it kind of underlies the point that RTD isn't that great at political satire. It came, no doubt, out of his admiration for Robert Holmes who included references to contemporary political news in his scripts - e.g. the Collector in the Sunmakers is a reference to Dennis Healy, the retiring president in the Deadly Assassin that remarks on their being some surprises in the honours list was a reference to the last new years honours list of Edward Wilson, who knowing he was soon to be forced out of office gave knighthoods to the cleaning staff at the Houses of Parliament. Also the two Peladon stories made satirical references to the debate about joining the EU and the main villain in The Happiness Patrol was also modelled upon Thatcher. But it's a problem if you're including stuff just to make a political reference if for those that don't get the political reference the scene just doesn't make sense. An in-joke should be seemlessly invisible rather than just baffling to those who won't get it.
The Big Finish audios with Ten and Rose are so weird because they don’t play on the romantic tension at all. It’s a vital and unique component to their relationship and the fact that it isn’t there for the audios makes them feel so lifeless and false, it’s almost like they’re not even themselves. It’s like those Target Doctor Who books where you could imagine any Doctor and the story would be fine. I understand classic fans not enjoying that dynamic, and I even understand wanting to strip it out for the rest of the show, but for Ten and Rose it’s just such a vital part of their Doctor/companion dynamic that it really makes it stand out from the crowd. Any attempt at removing it strips out a piece of this era’s soul, and makes their duo feel indistinguishable and even strange.
One thing I've recently noticed from rewatching Time of the Doctor: why is it that the doctor hardly knows how to fly the TARDIS (eg: River needing to sort out everything in episodes like Impossible Astronaut or Husbands of River Song) and then temporarily forgets the little he does know when he regenerates (makes sense here and partly for Smith as the regeneration from 10th to 11th partially destroyed the control room but 12th and 13th had no reason to forget)
This was the first ep of New Who I ever saw - I didn’t immediately start watching the series afterwards, but it always feels like my home base, if that makes any sense. It was what defined modern Who for me. Tennant’s energy, the ridiculous bad guys, the carefully choreographed collapsing, the bloodless vanishing hand... just wonderful.
I will say, it's still my favourite of the Christmas specials, probably since it set the trend, and whilst the non-doctor stuff is a little grating, I think Tennant's mini monologue-type entrance is great. And good old Harriet Jones. Excellent review, looking forward to your thoughts on season 2
This is still my favourite Christmas-Doctor Who.Again there's music throughout. The best part for me is when #10 is deciding on his signature outfit.I realized later that the lyrics were foretelling the end of Rose and their time together. the Christmas Invasion showed us who this Doctor was and how David Tennant was going to embody him. I agree with your pionts too, especially regarding Harriet Jones.Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Quite liked this at the time as thought it was an interesting way to introduce the new Dr - basically keeping him offscreen while the alien threat starts spiralling out of control - then have the Dr come in at the end and give a concentrated dose of the Dr fixing everything in record time. I like that gimmick a little less each time I rewatch this episode - while the Harriet Jones and Rose / Micky / Jackie stuff I think I like a bit more each time. So overall I like it but it's not perfect - although as an introduction to the new Dr I think it's still probably the most memorable of all Nu Who Dr introductions.
Another reference to a non Doctor Who character as being a part of this universe occurs in the 7th Doctor story "Remembrance of the Daleks," where Professor Rachel Jensen and her assistant Allison make mention of a "Bernard" from the "British Rocket Group". This is a reference to Bernard Quatermass and his British Experimental Rocket Group, from the Quatermass science-fiction television serials of the 1950s.
I think with Harriet jones. Her downfall wasn't so much just gossip going around. It was also her own paranoia in not believing that the doctors threat was 'doesn't she look tired'. Causing a self fulfilling prophecy. Overall I find the episode far more enjoyable than any of the Christmas specials released since Doctor who a Christmas carol.
Re-watched this very recently (as I'm going through all of New Who with a friend), actually preferred it a lot more than I used to. Have to rewatch 'Love & Monsters' and 'Fear Her' today. Pray for me.
I kinda like 'Fear Her', as one of RTD's low budget episodes, it was never going to be impressive. But, for me, it shows the Doctor's compassion towards all species as well as his desire to defend humanity. However, Love and Monsters, was always going to be written with _insert monster,_ at the end. The idea of leaving the creature to a child to create, shouldn't have gone to an episode that was both Doctor and Companion lite.
This is probably the episode that I have the most nostalgic feelings for; I still remember watching it on Christmas day (when I was 12), and it set the tradition which was as important as any other part of Christmas for me. Incidentally, this means I'm surely biased! I remember the episode itself as being quite simple plot-wise, but I didn't mind this. If fact, I think that was part of its appeal. It was primarily an introduction to Tennant as the doctor, and it does a lot of characterisation to that end. The fight scene, speechifying and even the taking-down of Harriet Jones all serve to paint Tennant as a more human, more fallible, and, in my view, more relatable doctor. The portion of the show before he wakes up allows (as you mention) more development of the other characters, most notably Rose. The drawn-out nature of it, I think, helps put in focus the fears that Rose have of who the new doctor is, which perhaps paralleled those of the audience at the time. I believe this was necessary (although you seem to dispute it) to allow the payoff, which is the relief and resolution when Tennant wakes and sorts everything out. P.S. Just realised 'Tennant' begins with 'ten', and he plays the tenth doctor, lol!
I absolutely agree with you on Harriet Jones. Another layer to that: did you see the interview where Eccleston said the BBC spread the rumor that he was tired and that's why he lost most of his work for years? Do you think this is a commentary on that situation since it came on right after his departure? And is it pro Eccleston (in a sense that what Dcotor did to Harriet was wrong) or anti Eccleston (as in Eccleston deserved it)? Since I'm always on Harriet's side and so are my friends, but it almost seems like the show isn't? Here's the link to that interview: ua-cam.com/video/Dr_OEqbGu2w/v-deo.html
I enjoy your channel and any channel that gets me to re-evaluate why and what I like/dislike about shows. I know what you mean about the pop culture references but I'm pretty sure they are for the kids. The Harriet Jones stuff referred back to Margaret Thatcher, the sinking of the Belgrano (it was 'sailing away' but a direction of travel isn't always the deciding factor anywhere near a war/battle zone) and her subsequent removal from office after one particular speech in Parliament (by Lord Howe). Although it was more complicated than just a few words that brought her down.
What I love from this episode is that we get a hint of how emotionally complex this version of the Doctor is. Going from very chatty to full-blown darkness in less than a second. *_NO SECOND CHANCES. I'M THAT SORT OF A MAN._*
Douglas Adams wrote a fair amount of classic episodes, so the connection isn't unbelievable. Also: Personal head canon, it's stated in one of the Hitchhikers books that the ultimate question and the ultimate answer are mutually exclusive and can't exist in the same universe and both make no sense without the other. Hitchhikers has the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything, while Doctor Who has a question, the first question, the oldest question in the universe, that must never be answered, hidden in plain sight. Whether or not the answer fits the question is another matter entirely, but perhaps there's some connection, it rhymes at least. Maybe the 42nd Doctor might finally answer the question.
If it were the Ninth Doctor up against the Sycorax, he would've been enraged at the fact that they killed two people. The Tenth Doctor is much more careless and detached from the concept of death. It's only when the people close to him start dying, and when he becomes John Smith, that he realizes the gravity of dying.
Even though I watched the whole of the first series first time around in 2005 when I was only 6, this episode was the first time I felt like a proper doctor who fan, new doctor new start, I loved it and it's one of my favourite stories
but in this episode the alternative of the sword fight would be the blowing up of the space ship, the doctor was being kind by fighting one of them to spare the others. The doctor always tries to let a chance. "not a second" you know.
It makes sense that Destiny of the Daleks is in the same universe as Hitchhiker since Douglas Adams wrote those episodes. I'm new to Who, but there is a similar Douglas Adams vibe in most of the episodes I watched.
I don't know if the Doctor-Harriet exchange is where it starts, but I've sometimes found Dr. Who to be overly pacifist. I thought this was more Moffat than Davies, and expected Chibnal would be even further to the left, based on Forty-Three. (I have not yet seen this season, but have heard it said my fears were well founded.) I also think it was sexist for the Doctor to undercut Jones in such a manner. Unless the intention was that we should realize the inappropriateness of thinking a woman is incapable of being PM or President because she'd get tired easily.
About something else that is nagging in my mind ... The plush dog on the shelf beside the Cards against Humanity box ... where is it from? I recognize it from somewhere, but i'm not sure where. It looks like the dog in the pilot for Infinity train, but that is not even a finished series yet, is it?
I think Harriet Jones is supposed to be a representation of Margaret Thatcher, with her firm convictions and insistence on getting her own way. Lots of people though she went crazy by 1990, and this is what the end was meant to be, in my opinion.
This was the first Doctor who episode that I saw, so it has a special place in my heart. I loved the Lion king speech, because it came out of nowhere to a new viewer. I was bit disappointed that Doctor was sleeping most of the episode, but again, I had no idea what kind of show this was
Chibnall said the reason he delayed The Doctor's entrance is he wanted the viewers to feel the tension and to be desperate for the Doctor to wake up and save the day. I didn't feel like they were against Harriet. I think they wanted the Doctor to seem arrogant. His arrogance was meant to be his downfall. This sort of was a harbinger of that. I don't understand why the did they sword fight the way they did it. You can see from the Confidential episode that it was quite a long choreographed fight. I've never minded the Rose romance. I thought, "Most young ladies (and a lot of young men) would fall for this Doctor." It made sense to me that they would acknowledge that and explore it a little. I didn't really like that he reciprocated, although I can almost justify it by the fact that this regeneration was triggered by her "kiss" and the fact that she's the first companion (other than the movie, sort of) that was written to feel that way about him.
I don't mind the pop-culture references, because in my headcanon, what we see is just a small part of the doctors life. Between what we see there must be a huge amount of downtime and adventures. Why would he not be reading books, listening to music and even watch movies between adventures. Maybe he even plays World of Warcraft... naa that last was a joke. I do not see him doing that at all. Tardis is a time machine. He can go away for hundreds of years between dumping a Companion who wish to visit at home, and nobody there (us included) would ever know. Because he could leave and come back with seconds between landings. Yes i know he says his age now and then. But we do find out he himself has lost track and "The doctor lies" Why should he not know pop culture from the different time periods and different worlds with all that potential downtime?
Hi. I think you missed the point of the episode. It was all about David Tennant. What's he gonna be like? Who is this guy. The ep was structured around this. That's y he Sonics the Xmas tree and then passes out again. None of us are sure what's going on here. My fav doc is Pertwee. So Tennant doing the whole sword fight thing is completely in character. And of course his performance was excellent. But that was the point of the ep. Bringing in the new Doctor. See, Eccleston wasn't supposed to leave like that. He just said fuck this and fucked off. And Russell T Davies was wtf!? I just brought Doctor Who back after years of campaigning. And now he's gone. I agree with u tho on the Harriet thing. But... RTD was showing that The Doctor is fallible. Flawed. Like u. And me. It's a concurrent theme throughout all of Tennants run. That he often fucks it up. Rtd was plugging his fallibility right there in David's opening ep. Imo.
To add to that, Silence of the Lambs? Hannibal Lecter was better cuz he's the star of the show but they used him sparingly. That's what the Christmas invasion was all about. And it worked brilliantly. And for the record, i liked the killer Xmas tree lol. It looked convincing and threatening. Just my op
I think the six words seen was to further reinforce the no second chances thing that 10 had going on. Its almost meant to be a lesson to Harriet to show her what's like from the other side. When we come back to it in Stolen Earth she says she never understood why he did it which I think is meant to show politically we never seem to learn from our mistakes. I agree though at the time it made little sense but RTD played one hell of a good long game with that one Edit: I don't think we knew at this point he'd killed all the Time Lords did we which is another hindsight that might explain his actions.
I am a terrible person who skipped Eccleston, so this was my first episode. It actually kept me from watching the series for years. Like, I actually just started watching the series this past month. There was a lot of people just standing around and not really doing anything and just dumb unimportant mini-threats to deal with, like the tree and the Santas. The swordfight was bad. And (see above - terrible person) I just don't like Rose and so much of this episode is about her. But it also had enough good that there was a reason I kept trying. Tennant (once he's awake) is fantastic, especially when he picks up on the blood control right off the bat and calls the sycorax's bluff. Then at the end when he alternates between being a clever loudmouth who's happy to have saved the day to being calm, cold, and angry both when he drops the sycorax leader and when he kills the pm's career. Tennant is just fantastic in this role. I also appreciated that unlike some shows there wasn't an immediate human centered morality. Killing innocent inhuman aliens is not tolerated the same way killing innocent humans is not tolerated. Oftentimes the more focus there is on humans being the good guys and always right there are racist undertones that creep up. That said Margaret Jones is a realistic world leader and truly comes across as just trying her best. The doctor was overly harsh, but he was also angry and emotional. His attempt to foster peace was completely undone and by someone he considered a friend no less.
I'm not so sure it's only female politicians that are affected by that... I'm pretty sure that I remember the press making a big deal about other male politicians looking tired before. Particularly people in high positions... I feel like something like that happened with Tony Blair or Gordon Brown shortly before they left/lost their post... I forget... I dunno, maybe women are more vulnerable to it, but I'm pretty sure men aren't immune to such things either.
100% agree with you about the words thing. when I originally saw it, I was much younger not as interested in politics and i was like "wait a minute, that's just dumb" but then esp following the trump vs hillary campaign, like. oh my god, so on point! I think we were meant to kind of side with him but also this scene was seeding the idea that the Doctor has some serious darkness about him (it's only unfortunate that it was left as a set up only and nothing was done with it) The killer Santas for me were juuuuust at the limit of my willing suspension of disbelief to not think they are too dumb, but the killer Christmas tree was just "nope" I also really really don't like doctor/companion romances and I in particular didn't like Rose/10. I also do not love Rose which didn't help, but I don't know, something about them as a romance fell off to me, like I just don't think Rose ever "got" the Doctor or was willing/able to call him out as much as some of his other companions are (particularly Donna). She just idealized him too much and that just strikes me as a recipe for disaster (i always imagined that rose and the human doctor get married in a rush and end up divorcing in like 3-5 years. if they survive that long, that is(
"doesn't she look tired" at 5:13 reminded me of 'Christopher Eccleston Talks Doctor Who (13/11/2018) - Interview' ua-cam.com/video/Dr_OEqbGu2w/v-deo.html
The Doctor taking down Harriet Jones came back to bite him when The Master became prime minister lol I really enjoy those bits where u watch The Doctor 'change history' since he knows everything that is and what could be And ur right about British people giving a pass on Christmas episodes. I think these sort of episodes are incredibly cheesy and the christmas-themed weaponry created by aliens is kinda... weird to me lol but I do give it a pass because it's christmas and back then all telly was heavily christmas themed around that time of year so I guess we expect the cheesy, kinda lame episode ideas. I don't think those sort of ideas would fly now tho. Christmas-themed television isn't really common anymore i think. Oh, and reading what everyone else thinks about Harriet Jones' decision to kill off the Sycorax is really interesting. I understand her side, but I understand the Doctor's side too. There are threatening species of alien out there, but not all of them would be out to destroy life on earth or earth itself.. But I can see why Harriet Jones wouldn't want to take that chance. The Doctor certainly isn't always there (I remember everyone joking with Torchwood when a Situation went on a bigger scale and everyone would say 'Where the HECK is the Doctor??') so I think the Doctor really mucked it up by getting rid of her. But I also get mad at the man the Doctor whispers to. He's been following the Prime Minister around and is the only one the Doctor whispers to and he goes out and blabs and spreads the rumour even more! He could have just been like 'Well it is a tough job but she does it excellently' but! oh well! It's a good comment on how fragile female leadership can be as u said. If one woman does a bad job in the role, everyone assumes ALL women will be bad at it lol. And also...(i'll bite the bullet here)... Hilary Clinton had tons of medical rumours surrounding her which made people question her leadership skills. Massive shame. Sorry my comments are always sooo long love to ramble about doctor who lol
As much as I want it, I don't think that Doctor Who can be the same universe, considering in Hitch Hikers the Earth canonically blew up in contemporary times, whereas in the Doctor Who world, the destruction of the Earth is canonically the year 5,000,000,000. Well, the Earth did return in So long and Thanks for All the Fish, but I don't think the Doctor wouldn't have noticed the Earth disappearing, or all the Dolphins up and leaving, or The President of the Galaxy stealing a newly designed spaceship.
The killer tree is so stupid and goofy, it makes me laugh, just like a B movie. I like the robots in this episode (not so much in the Runaway Bride) because I play the trumpet. I definitely wouldn’t be sad if it doubled as a flame thrower. Practicing would be a lot more fun! 🎺🔥😂
I really liked that episode. I understand your criticism regarding what he did to Harriet Jones, and I totally side with her. But to me, looking back to his whole run, it was the first time we saw that side of him that finally breaks into the open in the Waters of Mars episode, where he decides that he's basically God. It's a good ark, and just because I don't agree with what the doctor does it doesn't make the episode bad.
I always assumed the crappy sword fight scene was edited that way and shot that way because they were supposed to be on a ship high above London when they probably shot the scene on the ground outside, lol. Thats hard to shoot without getting stuff in the background which wouldn't be there if your high in the air I am curious on one thing though, if I may ask. You have stated here that Eccelston grabbed you as the Doctor in his first episode, that Tennant, grabbed you as the Doctor in his first episode (both of which I totally agree with) and I think most everyone agrees Matt Smith became the Doctor in his first episode telling the floaty eyeball to 'basically ... run'. But when did you start to think of Capaldi and Whittaker as the Doctor?
The Santa robots were creepy, and I liked them. The killer Christmas tree was bad. The worst part of the episode was the sword fight. Not only was it poorly executed as you pointed out, but I felt it was out of character. The Doctor uses non-lethal Venusian aikido. I am glad that Chibnall brought that back. I disliked the sword fight so much I was in doubt about Tennant as the new Doctor. Thank goodness I was wrong.
Well, I don't agree, because there's one aspect I've never seen anyone comment on. Yes, I agree that Harriet Jones is a great character and the show did her wrong. But the fact is that the Doctor came to help, solved the situation, with very few casualties from either side. A stunning victory from the human perspective. And then, behind his back, she destroyed the other side, breaching the agreement he negotiated on her behalf, for her own reasons, knowing he'd disagree. Then she tried to justify it by blaming him. All other aspects aside, emotionally (and diplomatically) it's a rather horrific betrayal from her part. He considered her his friend, he trusted her, she asked for his help, he came, he helped... and then she does that? The defense argument didn't apply in the situation any longer, because they were leaving and there was an agreement in place. The treacherous leader was dead. Is she claiming that self-defense means the right to shoot at any possibly hostile aliens, even when they're not an imminent threat? That's what Torchwood is doing. And he, in spite of being Earth's closest ally, can't say anything against it, or he'll be considered an enemy? Sorry, if it was me, the minimum I'd do is turn my back on Earth and never return.
I am with you on the relationship dynamics for the Doctor. I understand the change, and I will even give it partial credit for the popularity explosion with this relaunch period starting in 2005. But, I really liked how it was a complete non-issue in _Classic Who._ I do find it odd that they would include it, given how _"woke"_ (pardon the expression) the relationships would seem today. Granted, one of the primary reasons was that he is alien. He just didn't see humans in that way at all. I do miss that. I agree with you about Harriet Jones. Which is why, later on, I am glad she stood by her decision (and said so). Because I did not like all the time eaten up by robot Santas and Christmas Death Trees, I too was one that tried to justify the length of time without the Doctor being active as giving us the real impact of his eventual reveal and participation. But I really think I was just trying to excuse it. This is the type of episode I don't think we will see again for a very long time.
Only as far as :25 and giggling at your cold open. Hey, the pj's work, no worries! If it weren't for the fact that I'm in Maryland and shorter than you, I'd loan you a pinstriped jacket I used to dress up as 10 for Halloween this year.
Yeh the Harriet jones thing was weird I would have preferred something more along the lines of the third doctor’s “that was murder” line in doctor who and the Silurian tbh.
Not a great episode. I didn't really hate it, but I didn't really like it either. It gave me such high hopes for Tennant's Doctor, and we really only got to see him a couple of times. "No second chances. I'm that sort of man." I'm totally on Harriet Jones' side. Even the Doctor should have been. Going away is good. Never coming back is better.
I actually really don't like Hitchhikers existing within Doctor Who just because the way time travel works is very different in each franchise and for some reason that really bothers me.
A good Christmas special imo. Of Tennant's Christmas specials: I don't like The Runaway Bride cos of the shitty Racnoss. Voyage of the Damned is good. The Next Doctor is kinda boring. The End of Time is my favourite Christmas special of them all, it's a guilty pleasure of mine.
Honestly I cheered when the Doctor got Harriet sacked, lets not beat around the bush what she did was genocide and to be honest I only wish there was someone like the Doctor in real life to make leaders that commit similar atrocities accountable for their actions. If anything he probably went too easy on her.
I remember wanting to hate this episode so badly when it was first broadcasted because I loved nine so much but I was sold at the exact same moment as you. I always took Harriet Jones to be a nod to Margaret Thatcher.
It's so weird that Ten is set up as an action Doctor, like Jon Pertwee, with the whole "fighting hand" thing. Yet it turns out he's the most pacifist Doctor in New Who so far (not sure about Jodie yet.). I just wonder if Russell had initial ideas about how he should be played, and was smart enough to change his writing to fit the man playing him. I always felt that particular mistake was made with Twelve, and not corrected for whole seasons.
I don't think it's the worst episode the show has ever done, but it's certainly not good. I know I'm in the minority, but I don't much care for Rose, and her life on Earth with her family is definitely not the most interesting plotline in the world.
It actually took me a very long time to warm to tennent. Might of been because he was my 1st regeneration. When I watched serise one I didn't even know about the process. It took me at least up till army of ghosts. It never taken me that long with any other doctor. Even when I re watch early eppiosode of serise 2 I'm not feeling it
I would love to see a properly comedic episode, more firmly in the HHGG part of the Who-niverse. But copyrights and so forth probably stop that... Ah, well.
The chirstmas invasion was the best epidei ever with David Tennant he the best doctor ever I wish he did about three more years then he bets Tom baker and I Ike the sycork cas I reckon they well come back cas they where in the pandiorca opens of a mutuine so inrckon they well come back next year
You know, I personally don't like the Family of Blood/ the Human Nature specifically because the Doctor is not there and even though when he comes back the power of the moment is incredible, but... the rest of the episodes don't grab me because there's no Doctor. Interesting to see that here you bring this up as a criticism, but I don't recall your mentioning this when you talked about the Family of Blood/Human Nature. Maybe that's because the character of John Smith makes up for the lack of the Doctor...
I just wonder what your reaction to 'Fear her' will be. Especially for the 'shipping' thing. There's a moment in that bad episode that tells why the Doctor needs a companion perfectly IMHO. It's the moment where he's using his fingers to dip into the Honey and Rose is shaking her head. The Doctor sometimes forgets the little things, the social niceties. The Companion is there to keep him grounded. And there had to be a Douglas Adams reference in 'Destiny of the Daleks'. He was the script editor. And he wrote the next story 'City of Death'. See all the references there...
I thought it was brilliant. Not because I think the Doctor was right, quite the opposite. It points out something that the fandom often is happy to overlook. The Doctor is not a good man. He tries to be, but he often has psychopathic tendencies, amplified by that we humans aren't even exactly his species and he often views us beneath him. Moffat build on this in his own run, but he didn't really get his message across (he just can't do characters that well, often informing us rather than showing us character traits and sometimes even changing aspects between episodes). On RTDs term it culminated in the Timelord Victorious. Honestly, watching Tennant as properly frightening Killgrave and than thinking about how his two most impresive characters really were...
Britain and the world was set up to a golden decade thanks to Harriet Jones, Prime Minister. He changed that on a whim, leading to a decade mirroring our own universe (OK, writing wise that was quite useful) and even made room for Harold Saxxon a ka the Master (why couldn't she call herself master later on, btw?) in that position.
The Doctor can DO good things, but yeah... anyone who watches the very first story, "An Unearthly Child", knows that the 1st Doctor was willing to bludgeon a caveman to death just because it was easier; it was his human companions who mellowed him out, but almost every later incarnation of the Doctor has shown some level of ferocity, of vicious ruthlessness underneath. Heck, the 5th and 8th Doctors are probably the nicest so far (jury's still out on the 13th), and both of them were ultimately rather powerless much of the time to the point that their regenerations led to more dangerous successors (the 6th and War Doctors, respectively).
well said!
Ten has had some *truly* vindictive moments during his tenure. Not just Harriet Jones but the Family of Blood. Killing them would have been so much kinder than trapping them for all eternity like he did. He also would have killed the Racnoss children if Donna hadn't stopped him. Man had a nasty temper once you actually managed to upset him.
Kat K He DID end up killing the Racnoss children, though. Donna only stopped him from staying and drowning himself, as we find out happens if she isn’t there in “Turn Left”. Ten massacred a whole race of children for something they couldn’t help, which was their voracious appetites. It was the Racnoss Queen that wanted to use earth as a feeding ground. But Ten decided to punish the species as a whole and commit a mass genocide. Donna even mentions that he’d changed when he decided not to kill the Adipose children when they meet again, telling her that they can’t help it.... that they’re just children. I love Ten, he’s my Doctor.... but he’s a very flawed, petty, and vengeful being when he wants to be.
@@joshuaescopete Oh, my bad. It's been years since I watched that particular episode (love Ten/Donna and just Donna in general to death, but that one ep just doesn't do it for me) so I'd kind of forgotten the specifics except the part where Donna stopped him from doing *something* that would somehow lead to the end of the world, lol. I like Ten, but... yeah. I feel like every regeneration is a reaction to the one that came before, so Eleven's "Good men don't need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have to many!" may very well be a direct response to that particular facet of Ten.
Kat K No worries!! Just being a typical internet watchdog.😝 I do agree with you that Eleven definitely learned from Tens mistakes and is better at seeing things as a whole, as opposed to being Judge, Jury, and Executioner.
@@joshuaescopete Hey, nothing wrong with being a pedantic fact-monger ;)
I also feel like Eleven really enjoyed throwing around Ten's reputation for being a cruel, vindictive jerkass at times: "Ever heard of the Doctor? Yeah, that's me. Basically run!" ^wicked grin^
Kat K Very true. By the time he turns into Eleven, the Doctor has become a legend throughout the Universe. But that also ends up hurting him when the Papal Mainframe steals Amy’s Baby to create an assassin for the Doctor. He’s known to bring hope but also, death and destruction follow wherever he goes. Which prompts Twelve to become introspective regress inward, questioning whether or not he’s even a good man.
Not bad for a man in his jim jams!
Great plan using the pjs. After all it is accurate to the episode.
I squeed when I saw the PJs. I got a friend a pair with an almost identical pattern for Christmas this year :D
Amy Pond: So this was a good idea was it? They were leaving!
The Doctor: Leaving is good - never coming back is better!
I've often wondered if Moffett wanted to try and do a new spin on the Harriet Jones scene in Eleventh Hour. I did think the Doctor was a bit hard on her.
Michael Pate I'm pretty sure it was Rory who said that: "Did he just save the world from aliens, and then bring all the aliens back again?"
Evacuate the city.
Engage all defenses.
And get this man a suit!
Okay then, Arthur Dent
Baka - Chan always remember to carry your towel
@@Reprodestruxion
And Don't Panic.
^_^
The thing is, in the slitheen two parter at the end the ninth doctor says Harriet Jones is a future prime minister and creates the golden age for Britain, so in this story where the tenth doctor (at the end) ruins her career, the doctor just robbed Britain of its golden age? But uncalled for and tbh what Harriet did was right. They were gonna tell other species about earth, that would only anger them as I’m assuming the sycorax are a warrior type race.
Not only does The Doctor deprive Britain of it's Golden Age, he also plants the first seed for Harold Saxon to take over as Prime Minister.
Don't other species know already know about Earth? Since other aliens have already been to Earth and continue to
Anish S well yes, but it was most likely always seemed as a vulnerable and weak planet which meant the warrior races wouldn’t want to invade as they were probably looking for a challenge, but if the news went out that Earth was strong and armed then more species would try to invade looking for both honour and battles, so yeah.
@@edgeofablade8982 *cough cough* Stenza *cough cough*
But yeah, that's a good point
Eh... It often feels to me like I'm the only one of the opinion that NEITHER one of them was right: Harriet Jones was wrong to kill the Sycorax, and the Doctor was wrong to depose her, assuming that he knew best about these things; in the latter case especially, the 10th Doctor is a particularly sanctimonious, self-righteous incarnation of the Doctor, and this isn't the last time he considers himself morally superior to everyone around him. Ironic that whenever the Doctor has been made President of Gallifrey he balks at actually holding the position, yet multiple incarnations of the character think they know what's best for other people.
As for Harriet... look, I'm not going to argue that what she did was not NECESSARY, perhaps. Understandable certainly, as she points out the Sycorax murdered two good men in front of her without hesitation; she's also not wrong that the Doctor isn't always around to help, for various reasons (can't be everywhere at once, the TARDIS brings them where they are needed based on the timeline, etc.) and destroying the ship is an effective demonstration of power regardless of them retreating rather than continuing the attack. It is, however, STILL murder in its own right, and murder is never EVER "right"; it might be pragmatic, it might be necessary, but it's never OK. We can argue about self-defence all we like, this isn't a case of that. And the thing is, I don't think the narrative HAS ever tried to paint Harriet as being in the right for her actions even in her own eyes, anymore than it's tried (if you look at the subtext) to treat her as morally-repugnant beyond simply the Doctor's biased view. Harriet knows what she's doing is awful, but she'll do it because she is a LEADER; she cannot keep her soul untainted if doing so comes at the cost of human life, and while she's not strictly xenophobic she knows her priority is to her race first and foremost. Unfortunately, the Doctor cannot - or will not - see that perspective, so despite having seen her to be a good person before this he judges her as a monster for her actions (perhaps projecting a bit strongly there, mate) and decides to derail history. And with the examples later set by Harold Saxon and Brian Green (at least), we all know how well THAT turned out.
It's worth noting that Russel T. Davies has said that a lot of the 10th Doctor's morally-skeevy attributes were deliberate on his part, and that even if he's not always called on it directly he faces the consequences of what he does, HOW he does it, and so on. In the case of Harriet Jones, RTD originally intended that the Master gloat onscreen in "The Last of the Time Lords" about how the Doctor had given him an opening to insert himself as Prime Minister of the UK, specifically citing Harriet's deposition; he dropped this because he felt the Doctor was put through the ringer too much in that episode, though I think he was compensating for it a series later in "The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" - there, Harriet sacrifices herself to get the Doctor in touch with his friends on Earth and stop Davros' plans, and when Rose tells him he's wearing a look of horrified guilt at having misjudged Harriet and the fact she STILL helped him even after what he did to her... Another example is that according to RTD, the Doctor and Rose were in part responsible for their separation in "Doomsday"; their behaving like adrenaline junkies excited about danger, while people were dying around them, led Queen Victoria to found Torchwood - which in turn led to the Battle of Canary Wharf over 100 years later, which led to Rose being stuck in the alternate universe indefinitely.
The ideas behind the killer Christmas tree and robot Santa stem from the very traditional - and indeed very British - Pantomime humour. Yes, they're conceptually daft, but they are festively appropriate. Christmas telly in the UK has always been a bit silly.
I just can't get over the fact that the committed genocide on a ship that was actively "running" away, whatever she says her justification was.
The “don’t you think she look tired” line is a reference to former prime minister Margaret Thatcher and her downfall
I love how when you don't have a clear and obvious intro you still manage to be excellent. That's pure talent. Always love the Intro, so much fun!
The way I see it the Doctor a d Harriet Jones both had a point. What she did was like shooting a defeated opponent in the back as they walked away. But she was also correct in that the Doctor couldn't always be there. And her motivation was purely to protect her own people, not vengeance or anything like that. I like how later, when she returns in the Series 4 finale, it's to co tact the Doctor when he is away and needed. Bottom line it shows how not everything is simply black or white and sometimes there is no right answer.
"Don't you think she looks tired" is a reference to one of Thatcher's aides remarking that she looked tired leading to a media frenzy that supposedly led to a vote of no confidence, and the firing on the retreating Sycorax ship is a reference to the sinking of the Belgrano that was sailing away from the Falklands and was outside the exclusion zone when it occurred. Since Harriet Jones' first outing was a political satire (or at least a series of in-jokes for the politically aware) about 911 and the fallacious claims about Iraq's WMDs it made sense that her second outing would also be a piece of political satire, albeit a far less topical one! (Commenting on 1980s politics in 2005! So edgy!) Unfortunately it kind of underlies the point that RTD isn't that great at political satire. It came, no doubt, out of his admiration for Robert Holmes who included references to contemporary political news in his scripts - e.g. the Collector in the Sunmakers is a reference to Dennis Healy, the retiring president in the Deadly Assassin that remarks on their being some surprises in the honours list was a reference to the last new years honours list of Edward Wilson, who knowing he was soon to be forced out of office gave knighthoods to the cleaning staff at the Houses of Parliament. Also the two Peladon stories made satirical references to the debate about joining the EU and the main villain in The Happiness Patrol was also modelled upon Thatcher.
But it's a problem if you're including stuff just to make a political reference if for those that don't get the political reference the scene just doesn't make sense. An in-joke should be seemlessly invisible rather than just baffling to those who won't get it.
The Big Finish audios with Ten and Rose are so weird because they don’t play on the romantic tension at all. It’s a vital and unique component to their relationship and the fact that it isn’t there for the audios makes them feel so lifeless and false, it’s almost like they’re not even themselves. It’s like those Target Doctor Who books where you could imagine any Doctor and the story would be fine.
I understand classic fans not enjoying that dynamic, and I even understand wanting to strip it out for the rest of the show, but for Ten and Rose it’s just such a vital part of their Doctor/companion dynamic that it really makes it stand out from the crowd. Any attempt at removing it strips out a piece of this era’s soul, and makes their duo feel indistinguishable and even strange.
One thing I've recently noticed from rewatching Time of the Doctor: why is it that the doctor hardly knows how to fly the TARDIS (eg: River needing to sort out everything in episodes like Impossible Astronaut or Husbands of River Song) and then temporarily forgets the little he does know when he regenerates (makes sense here and partly for Smith as the regeneration from 10th to 11th partially destroyed the control room but 12th and 13th had no reason to forget)
13 years, still not ginger.
This was the first ep of New Who I ever saw - I didn’t immediately start watching the series afterwards, but it always feels like my home base, if that makes any sense. It was what defined modern Who for me. Tennant’s energy, the ridiculous bad guys, the carefully choreographed collapsing, the bloodless vanishing hand... just wonderful.
I will say, it's still my favourite of the Christmas specials, probably since it set the trend, and whilst the non-doctor stuff is a little grating, I think Tennant's mini monologue-type entrance is great.
And good old Harriet Jones.
Excellent review, looking forward to your thoughts on season 2
I think when time Lord's hit 900 it's kinds like when women hit 30. 😉
The killer Christmas tree has to be my favorite Doctor Who Christmas “villain”. It’s so goofy and dumb and utterly enjoyable
This is still my favourite Christmas-Doctor Who.Again there's music throughout. The best part for me is when #10 is deciding on his signature outfit.I realized later that the lyrics were foretelling the end of Rose and their time together. the Christmas Invasion showed us who this Doctor was and how David Tennant was going to embody him. I agree with your pionts too, especially regarding Harriet Jones.Merry Christmas to you and your family.
Hitchhiker's Guide - Douglas Adams .... he was a Script Editor for Dr Who back in the classic days......
I sort of feel that the Sycorax could have been a recurring New Who monster because we haven't really had many.
Quite liked this at the time as thought it was an interesting way to introduce the new Dr - basically keeping him offscreen while the alien threat starts spiralling out of control - then have the Dr come in at the end and give a concentrated dose of the Dr fixing everything in record time.
I like that gimmick a little less each time I rewatch this episode - while the Harriet Jones and Rose / Micky / Jackie stuff I think I like a bit more each time.
So overall I like it but it's not perfect - although as an introduction to the new Dr I think it's still probably the most memorable of all Nu Who Dr introductions.
Another reference to a non Doctor Who character as being a part of this universe occurs in the 7th Doctor story "Remembrance of the Daleks," where Professor Rachel Jensen and her assistant Allison make mention of a "Bernard" from the "British Rocket Group". This is a reference to Bernard Quatermass and his British Experimental Rocket Group, from the Quatermass science-fiction television serials of the 1950s.
I think with Harriet jones. Her downfall wasn't so much just gossip going around. It was also her own paranoia in not believing that the doctors threat was 'doesn't she look tired'. Causing a self fulfilling prophecy.
Overall I find the episode far more enjoyable than any of the Christmas specials released since Doctor who a Christmas carol.
Re-watched this very recently (as I'm going through all of New Who with a friend), actually preferred it a lot more than I used to. Have to rewatch 'Love & Monsters' and 'Fear Her' today. Pray for me.
oh no, good luck with those two eps
Rowan Crump oh lord, good luck
I kinda like 'Fear Her', as one of RTD's low budget episodes, it was never going to be impressive. But, for me, it shows the Doctor's compassion towards all species as well as his desire to defend humanity. However, Love and Monsters, was always going to be written with _insert monster,_ at the end. The idea of leaving the creature to a child to create, shouldn't have gone to an episode that was both Doctor and Companion lite.
dear lord, hope you've mentally prepared yourself
OMG I loved Fear Her!!!I am not alone
The Doctor's reaction to the Big Red Button stuck in my head as particularly delightful...
This is probably the episode that I have the most nostalgic feelings for; I still remember watching it on Christmas day (when I was 12), and it set the tradition which was as important as any other part of Christmas for me. Incidentally, this means I'm surely biased!
I remember the episode itself as being quite simple plot-wise, but I didn't mind this. If fact, I think that was part of its appeal. It was primarily an introduction to Tennant as the doctor, and it does a lot of characterisation to that end. The fight scene, speechifying and even the taking-down of Harriet Jones all serve to paint Tennant as a more human, more fallible, and, in my view, more relatable doctor.
The portion of the show before he wakes up allows (as you mention) more development of the other characters, most notably Rose. The drawn-out nature of it, I think, helps put in focus the fears that Rose have of who the new doctor is, which perhaps paralleled those of the audience at the time. I believe this was necessary (although you seem to dispute it) to allow the payoff, which is the relief and resolution when Tennant wakes and sorts everything out.
P.S. Just realised 'Tennant' begins with 'ten', and he plays the tenth doctor, lol!
I absolutely agree with you on Harriet Jones. Another layer to that: did you see the interview where Eccleston said the BBC spread the rumor that he was tired and that's why he lost most of his work for years? Do you think this is a commentary on that situation since it came on right after his departure? And is it pro Eccleston (in a sense that what Dcotor did to Harriet was wrong) or anti Eccleston (as in Eccleston deserved it)? Since I'm always on Harriet's side and so are my friends, but it almost seems like the show isn't? Here's the link to that interview: ua-cam.com/video/Dr_OEqbGu2w/v-deo.html
I enjoy your channel and any channel that gets me to re-evaluate why and what I like/dislike about shows.
I know what you mean about the pop culture references but I'm pretty sure they are for the kids.
The Harriet Jones stuff referred back to Margaret Thatcher, the sinking of the Belgrano (it was 'sailing away' but a direction of travel isn't always the deciding factor anywhere near a war/battle zone) and her subsequent removal from office after one particular speech in Parliament (by Lord Howe). Although it was more complicated than just a few words that brought her down.
What I love from this episode is that we get a hint of how emotionally complex this version of the Doctor is. Going from very chatty to full-blown darkness in less than a second.
*_NO SECOND CHANCES. I'M THAT SORT OF A MAN._*
Douglas Adams wrote a fair amount of classic episodes, so the connection isn't unbelievable.
Also: Personal head canon, it's stated in one of the Hitchhikers books that the ultimate question and the ultimate answer are mutually exclusive and can't exist in the same universe and both make no sense without the other. Hitchhikers has the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and everything, while Doctor Who has a question, the first question, the oldest question in the universe, that must never be answered, hidden in plain sight.
Whether or not the answer fits the question is another matter entirely, but perhaps there's some connection, it rhymes at least.
Maybe the 42nd Doctor might finally answer the question.
Hitchhiker's Guide started out as a doctor who script Douglas Adams sent in and was rejected, he retooled it and it became the series we know and love
@@NinjonPie and of course pieces of Shada were later retooled to make up parts of a Dirk Gently novel.
If it were the Ninth Doctor up against the Sycorax, he would've been enraged at the fact that they killed two people. The Tenth Doctor is much more careless and detached from the concept of death. It's only when the people close to him start dying, and when he becomes John Smith, that he realizes the gravity of dying.
Even though I watched the whole of the first series first time around in 2005 when I was only 6, this episode was the first time I felt like a proper doctor who fan, new doctor new start, I loved it and it's one of my favourite stories
Hoopy Arthur Dent cosplay. Missing the towel though (although it might be out of frame).
but in this episode the alternative of the sword fight would be the blowing up of the space ship, the doctor was being kind by fighting one of them to spare the others. The doctor always tries to let a chance. "not a second" you know.
It makes sense that Destiny of the Daleks is in the same universe as Hitchhiker since Douglas Adams wrote those episodes. I'm new to Who, but there is a similar Douglas Adams vibe in most of the episodes I watched.
If you want a great swordfight in Doctor Who, watch The Sea Devils.
Fencing
I don't know if the Doctor-Harriet exchange is where it starts, but I've sometimes found Dr. Who to be overly pacifist. I thought this was more Moffat than Davies, and expected Chibnal would be even further to the left, based on Forty-Three. (I have not yet seen this season, but have heard it said my fears were well founded.)
I also think it was sexist for the Doctor to undercut Jones in such a manner. Unless the intention was that we should realize the inappropriateness of thinking a woman is incapable of being PM or President because she'd get tired easily.
I was hoping you were going to be in the pjs very nice touch with the outfits in your vids btw
Destiny of the Daleks was also written by Douglas Adams... under a pseudonym I think, like he used for City of Death.
About something else that is nagging in my mind ...
The plush dog on the shelf beside the Cards against Humanity box ... where is it from?
I recognize it from somewhere, but i'm not sure where.
It looks like the dog in the pilot for Infinity train, but that is not even a finished series yet, is it?
As much as I’d love for hitchhikers being in the same universe I always read it as the doctor saying the character was a nice man
I think Harriet Jones is supposed to be a representation of Margaret Thatcher, with her firm convictions and insistence on getting her own way. Lots of people though she went crazy by 1990, and this is what the end was meant to be, in my opinion.
Harriet cannot be compared to the Iron Lady, as she was still very much human.
Margaret cared not for human lives.
Agreed. And certainly at the time, the "they were turning around" line was seen as a direct analogy to the attack on the Belgrano...
This was the first Doctor who episode that I saw, so it has a special place in my heart. I loved the Lion king speech, because it came out of nowhere to a new viewer. I was bit disappointed that Doctor was sleeping most of the episode, but again, I had no idea what kind of show this was
They made up for it by having harriet jones literally summon the doctor at her own peril
“Harriet Jones, Prime Minister”… 😂
Chibnall said the reason he delayed The Doctor's entrance is he wanted the viewers to feel the tension and to be desperate for the Doctor to wake up and save the day.
I didn't feel like they were against Harriet. I think they wanted the Doctor to seem arrogant. His arrogance was meant to be his downfall. This sort of was a harbinger of that. I don't understand why the did they sword fight the way they did it. You can see from the Confidential episode that it was quite a long choreographed fight.
I've never minded the Rose romance. I thought, "Most young ladies (and a lot of young men) would fall for this Doctor." It made sense to me that they would acknowledge that and explore it a little. I didn't really like that he reciprocated, although I can almost justify it by the fact that this regeneration was triggered by her "kiss" and the fact that she's the first companion (other than the movie, sort of) that was written to feel that way about him.
Thank you for defending Harriet Jones. This is why it took a while for Tennant to win me over.
I don't mind the pop-culture references, because in my headcanon, what we see is just a small part of the doctors life.
Between what we see there must be a huge amount of downtime and adventures. Why would he not be reading books, listening to music and even watch movies between adventures. Maybe he even plays World of Warcraft... naa that last was a joke. I do not see him doing that at all.
Tardis is a time machine. He can go away for hundreds of years between dumping a Companion who wish to visit at home, and nobody there (us included) would ever know. Because he could leave and come back with seconds between landings. Yes i know he says his age now and then. But we do find out he himself has lost track and "The doctor lies"
Why should he not know pop culture from the different time periods and different worlds with all that potential downtime?
Hi. I think you missed the point of the episode. It was all about David Tennant. What's he gonna be like? Who is this guy. The ep was structured around this.
That's y he Sonics the Xmas tree and then passes out again.
None of us are sure what's going on here. My fav doc is Pertwee. So Tennant doing the whole sword fight thing is completely in character.
And of course his performance was excellent.
But that was the point of the ep. Bringing in the new Doctor.
See, Eccleston wasn't supposed to leave like that. He just said fuck this and fucked off. And Russell T Davies was wtf!? I just brought Doctor Who back after years of campaigning. And now he's gone.
I agree with u tho on the Harriet thing. But... RTD was showing that The Doctor is fallible. Flawed. Like u. And me.
It's a concurrent theme throughout all of Tennants run. That he often fucks it up.
Rtd was plugging his fallibility right there in David's opening ep.
Imo.
To add to that, Silence of the Lambs? Hannibal Lecter was better cuz he's the star of the show but they used him sparingly. That's what the Christmas invasion was all about.
And it worked brilliantly. And for the record, i liked the killer Xmas tree lol. It looked convincing and threatening. Just my op
I think the six words seen was to further reinforce the no second chances thing that 10 had going on. Its almost meant to be a lesson to Harriet to show her what's like from the other side. When we come back to it in Stolen Earth she says she never understood why he did it which I think is meant to show politically we never seem to learn from our mistakes.
I agree though at the time it made little sense but RTD played one hell of a good long game with that one
Edit: I don't think we knew at this point he'd killed all the Time Lords did we which is another hindsight that might explain his actions.
I am a terrible person who skipped Eccleston, so this was my first episode.
It actually kept me from watching the series for years. Like, I actually just started watching the series this past month. There was a lot of people just standing around and not really doing anything and just dumb unimportant mini-threats to deal with, like the tree and the Santas. The swordfight was bad. And (see above - terrible person) I just don't like Rose and so much of this episode is about her.
But it also had enough good that there was a reason I kept trying. Tennant (once he's awake) is fantastic, especially when he picks up on the blood control right off the bat and calls the sycorax's bluff. Then at the end when he alternates between being a clever loudmouth who's happy to have saved the day to being calm, cold, and angry both when he drops the sycorax leader and when he kills the pm's career. Tennant is just fantastic in this role.
I also appreciated that unlike some shows there wasn't an immediate human centered morality. Killing innocent inhuman aliens is not tolerated the same way killing innocent humans is not tolerated. Oftentimes the more focus there is on humans being the good guys and always right there are racist undertones that creep up.
That said Margaret Jones is a realistic world leader and truly comes across as just trying her best. The doctor was overly harsh, but he was also angry and emotional. His attempt to foster peace was completely undone and by someone he considered a friend no less.
Christmas Invasion is definitely one of my favorite DW episodes
I think it's one of the most rewatchable episodes.
How do you feel about the various media adaptations of Hitchhiker’s Guide?
i have seen the lion king but only once or twice and that was when it came out so 20 25 years ago. what was the line the dr used from the lion king?
The Doctor is old enough that he’d become so bored to wanna embrace pop culture
I'm not so sure it's only female politicians that are affected by that... I'm pretty sure that I remember the press making a big deal about other male politicians looking tired before. Particularly people in high positions... I feel like something like that happened with Tony Blair or Gordon Brown shortly before they left/lost their post... I forget...
I dunno, maybe women are more vulnerable to it, but I'm pretty sure men aren't immune to such things either.
100% agree with you about the words thing. when I originally saw it, I was much younger not as interested in politics and i was like "wait a minute, that's just dumb" but then esp following the trump vs hillary campaign, like. oh my god, so on point!
I think we were meant to kind of side with him but also this scene was seeding the idea that the Doctor has some serious darkness about him (it's only unfortunate that it was left as a set up only and nothing was done with it)
The killer Santas for me were juuuuust at the limit of my willing suspension of disbelief to not think they are too dumb, but the killer Christmas tree was just "nope"
I also really really don't like doctor/companion romances and I in particular didn't like Rose/10. I also do not love Rose which didn't help, but I don't know, something about them as a romance fell off to me, like I just don't think Rose ever "got" the Doctor or was willing/able to call him out as much as some of his other companions are (particularly Donna). She just idealized him too much and that just strikes me as a recipe for disaster (i always imagined that rose and the human doctor get married in a rush and end up divorcing in like 3-5 years. if they survive that long, that is(
"doesn't she look tired" at 5:13 reminded me of 'Christopher Eccleston Talks Doctor Who (13/11/2018) - Interview' ua-cam.com/video/Dr_OEqbGu2w/v-deo.html
The Doctor taking down Harriet Jones came back to bite him when The Master became prime minister lol I really enjoy those bits where u watch The Doctor 'change history' since he knows everything that is and what could be
And ur right about British people giving a pass on Christmas episodes. I think these sort of episodes are incredibly cheesy and the christmas-themed weaponry created by aliens is kinda... weird to me lol but I do give it a pass because it's christmas and back then all telly was heavily christmas themed around that time of year so I guess we expect the cheesy, kinda lame episode ideas. I don't think those sort of ideas would fly now tho. Christmas-themed television isn't really common anymore i think.
Oh, and reading what everyone else thinks about Harriet Jones' decision to kill off the Sycorax is really interesting. I understand her side, but I understand the Doctor's side too. There are threatening species of alien out there, but not all of them would be out to destroy life on earth or earth itself.. But I can see why Harriet Jones wouldn't want to take that chance. The Doctor certainly isn't always there (I remember everyone joking with Torchwood when a Situation went on a bigger scale and everyone would say 'Where the HECK is the Doctor??') so I think the Doctor really mucked it up by getting rid of her. But I also get mad at the man the Doctor whispers to. He's been following the Prime Minister around and is the only one the Doctor whispers to and he goes out and blabs and spreads the rumour even more! He could have just been like 'Well it is a tough job but she does it excellently' but! oh well! It's a good comment on how fragile female leadership can be as u said. If one woman does a bad job in the role, everyone assumes ALL women will be bad at it lol. And also...(i'll bite the bullet here)... Hilary Clinton had tons of medical rumours surrounding her which made people question her leadership skills. Massive shame. Sorry my comments are always sooo long love to ramble about doctor who lol
But Earth is destroyed long before the End of the World in the Hitchhiker universe.
As much as I want it, I don't think that Doctor Who can be the same universe, considering in Hitch Hikers the Earth canonically blew up in contemporary times, whereas in the Doctor Who world, the destruction of the Earth is canonically the year 5,000,000,000. Well, the Earth did return in So long and Thanks for All the Fish, but I don't think the Doctor wouldn't have noticed the Earth disappearing, or all the Dolphins up and leaving, or The President of the Galaxy stealing a newly designed spaceship.
The killer tree is so stupid and goofy, it makes me laugh, just like a B movie. I like the robots in this episode (not so much in the Runaway Bride) because I play the trumpet. I definitely wouldn’t be sad if it doubled as a flame thrower. Practicing would be a lot more fun! 🎺🔥😂
I really liked that episode. I understand your criticism regarding what he did to Harriet Jones, and I totally side with her. But to me, looking back to his whole run, it was the first time we saw that side of him that finally breaks into the open in the Waters of Mars episode, where he decides that he's basically God. It's a good ark, and just because I don't agree with what the doctor does it doesn't make the episode bad.
Donna is best companion. And doctor. Just make a spin off with her or revive torchwood with her.
I always assumed the crappy sword fight scene was edited that way and shot that way because they were supposed to be on a ship high above London when they probably shot the scene on the ground outside, lol. Thats hard to shoot without getting stuff in the background which wouldn't be there if your high in the air I am curious on one thing though, if I may ask. You have stated here that Eccelston grabbed you as the Doctor in his first episode, that Tennant, grabbed you as the Doctor in his first episode (both of which I totally agree with) and I think most everyone agrees Matt Smith became the Doctor in his first episode telling the floaty eyeball to 'basically ... run'. But when did you start to think of Capaldi and Whittaker as the Doctor?
This was the first episode of new who that really felt like Doctor Who to me.
The sword fight reminded me of a Power Rangers episode.
The Santa robots were creepy, and I liked them. The killer Christmas tree was bad. The worst part of the episode was the sword fight. Not only was it poorly executed as you pointed out, but I felt it was out of character. The Doctor uses non-lethal Venusian aikido. I am glad that Chibnall brought that back. I disliked the sword fight so much I was in doubt about Tennant as the new Doctor. Thank goodness I was wrong.
Well, I don't agree, because there's one aspect I've never seen anyone comment on. Yes, I agree that Harriet Jones is a great character and the show did her wrong. But the fact is that the Doctor came to help, solved the situation, with very few casualties from either side. A stunning victory from the human perspective. And then, behind his back, she destroyed the other side, breaching the agreement he negotiated on her behalf, for her own reasons, knowing he'd disagree. Then she tried to justify it by blaming him. All other aspects aside, emotionally (and diplomatically) it's a rather horrific betrayal from her part. He considered her his friend, he trusted her, she asked for his help, he came, he helped... and then she does that? The defense argument didn't apply in the situation any longer, because they were leaving and there was an agreement in place. The treacherous leader was dead. Is she claiming that self-defense means the right to shoot at any possibly hostile aliens, even when they're not an imminent threat? That's what Torchwood is doing. And he, in spite of being Earth's closest ally, can't say anything against it, or he'll be considered an enemy? Sorry, if it was me, the minimum I'd do is turn my back on Earth and never return.
[ looks at pjs ] Mwa heehehe hahahahhe :D You look adorable!
I am with you on the relationship dynamics for the Doctor. I understand the change, and I will even give it partial credit for the popularity explosion with this relaunch period starting in 2005. But, I really liked how it was a complete non-issue in _Classic Who._ I do find it odd that they would include it, given how _"woke"_ (pardon the expression) the relationships would seem today. Granted, one of the primary reasons was that he is alien. He just didn't see humans in that way at all. I do miss that.
I agree with you about Harriet Jones. Which is why, later on, I am glad she stood by her decision (and said so).
Because I did not like all the time eaten up by robot Santas and Christmas Death Trees, I too was one that tried to justify the length of time without the Doctor being active as giving us the real impact of his eventual reveal and participation. But I really think I was just trying to excuse it.
This is the type of episode I don't think we will see again for a very long time.
Of course there’s nothing wrong with a sword fighting Doctor just ask Jon Pertwee and Paul McGann
I have to admit I love the killers Christmas tree...
Only as far as :25 and giggling at your cold open. Hey, the pj's work, no worries! If it weren't for the fact that I'm in Maryland and shorter than you, I'd loan you a pinstriped jacket I used to dress up as 10 for Halloween this year.
Yeh the Harriet jones thing was weird I would have preferred something more along the lines of the third doctor’s “that was murder” line in doctor who and the Silurian tbh.
I've been waiting for this video.
Not a great episode. I didn't really hate it, but I didn't really like it either.
It gave me such high hopes for Tennant's Doctor, and we really only got to see him a couple of times. "No second chances. I'm that sort of man."
I'm totally on Harriet Jones' side. Even the Doctor should have been. Going away is good. Never coming back is better.
I actually really don't like Hitchhikers existing within Doctor Who just because the way time travel works is very different in each franchise and for some reason that really bothers me.
A good Christmas special imo. Of Tennant's Christmas specials:
I don't like The Runaway Bride cos of the shitty Racnoss.
Voyage of the Damned is good.
The Next Doctor is kinda boring.
The End of Time is my favourite Christmas special of them all, it's a guilty pleasure of mine.
This episode was boring until 10th Dr arrived.
Honestly I cheered when the Doctor got Harriet sacked, lets not beat around the bush what she did was genocide and to be honest I only wish there was someone like the Doctor in real life to make leaders that commit similar atrocities accountable for their actions. If anything he probably went too easy on her.
I remember wanting to hate this episode so badly when it was first broadcasted because I loved nine so much but I was sold at the exact same moment as you.
I always took Harriet Jones to be a nod to Margaret Thatcher.
It's so weird that Ten is set up as an action Doctor, like Jon Pertwee, with the whole "fighting hand" thing. Yet it turns out he's the most pacifist Doctor in New Who so far (not sure about Jodie yet.). I just wonder if Russell had initial ideas about how he should be played, and was smart enough to change his writing to fit the man playing him. I always felt that particular mistake was made with Twelve, and not corrected for whole seasons.
Easily the best Xmas special
kiarash608 idk.. I like Matt Smith’s episode a Christmas Carol as the best Xmas special. But this one is also good.
Kiarash608 is the 608 for WI?
I greatly disliked the sexism of The Doctor's "don't you think she looks tired".
I don't think it's the worst episode the show has ever done, but it's certainly not good. I know I'm in the minority, but I don't much care for Rose, and her life on Earth with her family is definitely not the most interesting plotline in the world.
It actually took me a very long time to warm to tennent. Might of been because he was my 1st regeneration. When I watched serise one I didn't even know about the process. It took me at least up till army of ghosts. It never taken me that long with any other doctor. Even when I re watch early eppiosode of serise 2 I'm not feeling it
I would love to see a properly comedic episode, more firmly in the HHGG part of the Who-niverse. But copyrights and so forth probably stop that... Ah, well.
Love your pajamas
The chirstmas invasion was the best epidei ever with David Tennant he the best doctor ever I wish he did about three more years then he bets Tom baker and I Ike the sycork cas I reckon they well come back cas they where in the pandiorca opens of a mutuine so inrckon they well come back next year
You know, I personally don't like the Family of Blood/ the Human Nature specifically because the Doctor is not there and even though when he comes back the power of the moment is incredible, but... the rest of the episodes don't grab me because there's no Doctor. Interesting to see that here you bring this up as a criticism, but I don't recall your mentioning this when you talked about the Family of Blood/Human Nature. Maybe that's because the character of John Smith makes up for the lack of the Doctor...
I just wonder what your reaction to 'Fear her' will be. Especially for the 'shipping' thing. There's a moment in that bad episode that tells why the Doctor needs a companion perfectly IMHO. It's the moment where he's using his fingers to dip into the Honey and Rose is shaking her head. The Doctor sometimes forgets the little things, the social niceties. The Companion is there to keep him grounded.
And there had to be a Douglas Adams reference in 'Destiny of the Daleks'. He was the script editor. And he wrote the next story 'City of Death'. See all the references there...
Alun Rundle then again , Deadly Assassin
@@Reprodestruxion Not like the Castellan WASN'T the companion there.
Alun Rundle cool team, great Czech actor
@@Reprodestruxion He was indeed. He's also in the Troughton story 'The Enemy of the World'
Can we have Harriet Jones instead of Teresa may please
Sorry Luke. Harriet died, killed by the Daleks. Kept out of the MSM...
@@MekQuarrie but wibbley wobbley timey whimey?
Pls pls PLS do an overdue who review 4 Fear Her!!Please!!
Stick around, I’ll get there. I’m doing them in order.
4:30. Good to know stereotypes can be a positive :)
Cute pyjamas #bewarethejackie #leopardprint