Pilot Career Earnings: The Impact of Slow vs. Fast Progression at Legacy Airlines
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- How much money can you lose or gain from a slow career vs. a fast career? In this video, we explore the financial impact of career progression speeds for pilots at legacy airlines. Join me as we dive into detailed scenarios comparing the earnings of pilots at three different airlines over a 40-year career. We'll examine the effects of airline growth, stagnation, and contraction on career earnings, and provide a comprehensive look at fleet, seat, and base seniority.
I'm Aaron Mathis, a First Officer on the 757 & 767 at United, a pilot interviewer, and a volunteer Aviate Coach. On the Pilot Pulse Channel, I aim to provide insightful data and analysis to help you understand the aviation industry better.
In this video, you'll find:
* A breakdown of career progression at different airlines
* An analysis of United Airlines' current growth pattern
* Comparisons of earnings over different career lengths
* Insights into the importance of choosing the right airline at the right time
* United Airlines current base, fleet and seat seniority
Join me as I present data-driven insights and practical information for aspiring and current pilots.
Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more content!
The views and opinions expressed in this video are solely my own and do not reflect the official policies, opinions or position of any airline or my employer. This content is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as legal, career, or professional advice.
Music by Artlist IO
#PilotCareer #Aviation #UnitedAirlines #PilotEarnings #AirlineGrowth #PilotProgression #AviationIndustry #FlightTraining #PilotLife #CareerAdvice
Well done! Was so informative. Thank you for all the work...
Incredible man! Crazy research to come up with all this and break it down.
Ben
Thanks Ben!
Excellent day at crunch g Aaron! Appreciate the rays of hope as I progress thru flight training. Looking forward to flying with you in the friendly skies. Manny
Congrats on all of your success!! Keep plugging away!
Amazing video brother! We all greatly appreciate the time and effort it took to crunch those numbers. Great information there! Especially for us older student pilots.
Thank you!! I’m glad it was helpful!!
Thank you for making this video! This is probably the most informative video I’ve found on pilot pay and career earnings. I just crossed 100 hours on the long journey to the airlines. It’s a second career for me and best case scenario I’ll have 30 years at a legacy. This video really helped me think through what those different scenarios would mean. Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much for the feedback!! I have some good ideas for the future so be sure to stay tuned and I’ll be sure to keep the updates coming and cover different topics along the way. Good luck with your journey, and congratulations on your success so far! I always tell people, the hardest part of any challenge (and especially in aviation) is starting and you are well on your way!
Awesome video. Very informative
Glad it was helpful!
Using a 40 year career is the ultimate pointer you are young. Over the last 40 years the average legacy career has been 30 years. People getting hired at 25 is definitely an anomaly.
5 to 40 years is an all encompassing age range designed to inform people of all ages.
Fantastic
Thanks Alex!
Incredible keep it up with good content sad to see bro is underrated
this is amazing man, awesome work!
Thanks a ton! I really appreciate the feedback!
Phenomenal!
Thanks Jacob! See you in the friendly skies!
Will put together. You did a great favor to aspiring pilots by showing the importance of seniority and opportunity cost. It is diffícult to understand from the outside.
I’m glad this was helpful for you! Stay tuned for more like it in the future!
@@PilotPulseChannelI am a retired 777 guy so I had a resonable idea about seniority. Your extensive work is particularly helpful to those deciding to become pilots and why it is important to just get it done.
Great to see the growth at United.
Heyyyy you made the video haha great one!
Sure did!
Can't forget compounding interest to the 401K as well!
Taxes brother… we end up paying almost 55%. ALPA gets their dues, Health Insurance costs, and state taxes. Don’t forget NJ gets a pound of flesh come April and that’s a fraction of what my buddy pays to NYC as a 737 captain, even though he lives in Florida.
Also remember that life gets in the way.. especially after you upgrade. Being a captain isn’t easy and not everyone can do it. When I was a junior captain at my airline, it was tough. Glad I married the gal I did. Training a captain is exponentially more difficult and demands way more time from you. Sure the pay was alright once you get there but for years I couldn’t bid for a schedule I could control.
These numbers assume you take the very first upgrade in any base. If you have kids in SFO but your upgrade is in IAH… that commute/schedule will ruin a family and your QoL. What happens if we hit a downturn and you are commuting to reserve or get knocked back to the right seat. These factors usually cause pilots to delay an upgrade for 1-3 years after they can hold the jet in the base they want.
True right now the airlines seem to be growing at a rate that is almost double the attrition. The numbers presented here are well explained and look to be accurate but there is no caution in this tale. In 2001/2008/2019 nobody saw what those years had in coming. All I’m saying is don’t make the decision to jump into this career based on a presumption you’ll make 777 captain in 25 years from the day you start flight training.
You could do all the work in flight school and not get the job when offered the interview. When I went through the process… it took years and thousands of hours to get looked at. Networking, volunteering, a 4 year college degree and job fairs were all required. I’m not bitter because of my path and I’m happy for anyone to escape what I went through.
Just remember the airlines can flip a switch and bring it all back tomorrow. Don’t be fooled by the money. Taxes and life get in the way.
@jamesdean9957 Your absolutely correct, but life getting in the way is exactly that, its life. You will face challenges weather you're a cab driver, airline pilot or CEO so those things didn't really factor in for me. Taxes will always be taken as well, such is life. If you're making money, your paying taxes and I agree, I hate paying 55-60% taxes but its a fact of life, and I dont think that anyone with a social security would be surprised about being taxed alot for making good money. Not going to disagree either that hiring minimums have dropped significantly in the past couple decades but theres much momentum currently for someone to be able to start flight training and pursue this profession and should (in theory) be able to find themself at a Legacy with much less resistance than your personal example, but now I'll quote myself from this video "the Titanic was unsinkable". The only point I hoped to convey is that the risk to reward ratio is much much lower than the 2000's and with that, theres no reward with no risk.
Thanks for the comment! I enjoyed reading your perspective and I don't disagree with anything you said. It actually gave me an idea for a future video too... "How much money will you pay in taxes during an airline career". But personally, I'm not sure I'm ready to know the answer! Haha!
@@PilotPulseChannel I appreciate the research you do when putting the videos together. It is keeping an old dog’s ear to the rail. Tell em to avoid the forums. That is a dark and dirty place.
@@jamesdean9957 ironically, this video ended up there 🤣
@@PilotPulseChannelpilots pay 55-60% taxes in the US?
Awesome video! I began flying in 2020 before I had any idea what all this seniority stuff meant. I’m currently at a ULCC flying an A320 and have my app out at UA. Ultimately the reason for UA for me is QoL, base (west coast) presence, and growth. I am currently not competitive (first airline) but hoping to be competitive for a position within a few years. My own “numbers games” with UA growth look surprisingly similar to yours! Hoping to be a 737 LAX typed FO come 2026 for UA. Chasing those tailwinds as you say.
Awesome video :)
Side note - it seems competitive is about 1000 hours turbine / 2500-3000 total time. PIC preferred? How do you see these competitive numbers evolving as their growth plans take hold? Does it hurt, help, or neither that I’m applying from a ULCC as opposed to an aviate regional?
Congrats on all your successes! Might be seeing you in the 737 soon 👀. Competitive is +1000 turbine PIC, with around 5,000 TT as an average from what I’m seeing but that does vary up and down circumstantially so anything is possible. I’m. It quite sure how the plans will develop but just assuming supply/demand, as we need more and more pilots with concurrence of the deliveries, it seems possible that those minimums can drop, but if nobody else in the industry is hiring, it could continue going up. It’s a very economics based answer and I’m certainly not an economist, haha. I would say, you won’t know if you made the right decision or not until you find yourself at the dream job. I would say as of now it makes no difference. The only thing that concerns me is how long it may take you to get 1000 Turbine PIC in the long run where you could (in most cases) get turbine PIC much faster traditionally at a regional, or Aviate partner. However, your deck cards are pretty much set in stone at this point so I wouldn’t waste your time looking back. Just make the best of your current situation and do everything you can to continue growing and building upon your career. Hope to see you across the deck one day! Best of luck!
@@PilotPulseChannel luckily junior upgrade is 1 year and 4 months and with 42 aircraft to be delivered next year, I think it’ll continue to drop. Thanks for the response.
Erin, great video. What are competitive mins for retired mil with heavy fixed wing time and some part 121 737 time?
It sounds to me like you are competitive as it sits. Competitive right now looks like (on an average basis) 1000+ total turbine pic time or 2000 turbine time. Most important thing since you are retired is that your currency is decent. Like 100 hours in the last 12 months.
@PilotPulseChannel Many thanks. I'm at ~1125 mil hours (turbine multi) now and ~425 B737 121 time... but only ~275 hours of KC135 (B707) PIC.
Is it possible to get hired with 135 PIC time or do they prefer 121?
Mind sharing the spreadsheets so I can imput the numbers for Delta? Also AA and SW just stagnated for the rest of the year and have some major problems ahead. I figure at least two more big downturns in next 20-30 years so I would lean towards the worst case scenario you mapped out. Thanks for all the hard work to let me know my career change and investment is going to most likely work out!
I’m glad this helped you map things out! I would say being a “glass half full person” if I were advising my family member, I would say plan on average, middle of the road in my “nominal” progression. I don’t foresee furloughs a long way out but certainly, planning for worst case scenario is always the safest and anything more than that is just a free-bee.
Hi! Another Aviate question. My friend is wondering if she gets accepted for Aviate through the professional training entry point, but will be taking her commercial through a Part 61 school will that disqualify her from Aviate?
It is my understanding that training (once accepted) should be completed by only aviate affiliate school. I could be wrong but thats my understanding and I feel very confident in that. I would suggest extreme caution when walking on the bounds of the rules, because a candidate wont find themselves going through the final review board until all requirements are met with 2200+ hours at an affiliate regional and waiting to get a class date at UAL. Only then would it be discovered that said person has been ineligible since they took their commercial, thus preventing them from being accepting to UAL.
@@PilotPulseChannel Thank you! Will let her know!
Thank You very much for this video . I am currently a wannabe pilot 34 years young living In New York City . Do you think I have a chance to become a captain for United even though I am just starting out ???
I have minimal money and I planning on joining an airline In another role to try and get Into a flight school yea I know a whole lot what do you think overall ???
Thank You again
Yes I absolutely believe you have all the chances in the world of becoming a United pilot and Captain if that’s your goal especially in the current environment. It’s very possible with hard work, dedication and loads of commitment and self motivation . I strongly encourage you to pursue it if it’s truly a dream. Just don’t do it for the money or you will never make
It, only to find yourself giving up and much poorer following training.
I had heard that the regionals have paused hiring for FO. Please do a video on if it is now hard to find a FO position at 1500 hours
Not true. There are several regionals still hiring. Apply to them all!
Can you add a link to share the spreadsheets?
No link, but please feel free to screen-shot whatever you like from the video.
I had to rewind and listen again when you gave the date of 1/21/27. I’m 52 years old and just getting started with 8.6 hours so far in my logbook, but lessons are scheduled four days a week and are three hour blocks. I’d do more if I could, but 2027 is about the time frame I might reach ATP hours or sooner. I’m starting late but trying to catch up. I live 90 minutes away from IAH so United would be a wonderful legacy carrier to work at while still staying in my native Texas.
You have done the hardest part now, which is starting! Congrats to you and keep pushing forward. I’ve hired people that are 63 so you have so much career left! Good luck!!
Great vid!! Any chance to get your quick take on DL & AA to see if comparable career progression can be made at the other legacies, or would UA offer much greater gains? With that do you think United Next will overshadow DL/AA growth plan pilot group wise? Again well done 👌🏼
Currently as it stands, UAL has faster progression by retirements after 2027 and a much larger order book than AA, the next closest. DL isn’t showing much signs of growth in the future. UAL is definitely the best place to be by career progression and and growth to offer the fastest career progression as it currently stands. That’s not me being biased, it’s based on data.
Very informative. I start the academy in Goodyear, AZ this September at the ripe age of 48. If I progressed fairly well towards my minimums with Aviate, would I be looking at 2028 as my hiring year?
I would say that by starting at Goodyear in September, making it to UAL by 2028 isn't impossible but it may be challenging to pull off by then. You're assuming it will take 1.5 years to complete the program then 2.5 years to get your 1500 hours and then give 2700 hours to a partner regional. I like to say, "Aim high and miss but never aim low and hit the target". Also, go in with reasonable expectations. I say, 1.5 years to get the program completion, 1.5 years to get 1500 hours (assuming 100 hours per month of time building), then about 4-5 years to complete 2700 hours at a partner regional. Use that number then do everything in your power to beat yourself at your own race. Good luck with your journey!!
-Aaron
Hi! How can I prepare for my United Aviate interview?
Imagine you’re sitting down for your last check ride. That is the level of knowledge that we expect you to have. Also, be ready to answer some tell me about a time questions.
@@PilotPulseChannel thank you!