RoyalJordanian Because of the fact that your videos are always nice to watch, I hit the LIKE button even before I watch it. I have never been disappointed and I'm sure it won't be in the future 👍👍👍✌✌✌
the moment that RJ realizes that the thief can drive all he wants without the keyfob if he only uses the kill switch was hilarious. In his mind he definitely was like "oh fuck................this sucks" 😂
Well the thing is that the bike still has the electrics running if he uses the kill-switch to turn off the engine. So, I guess that as long as the electrics are running you can start the bike. And the electrics probably only turn on if the key fob is near
instead of turning the engine off, The law (then manufacturer ) should allow the car/bike should lose throttle response (as vehicle computers can already do when ESP kicks in) when out of range with the key. This would leave time and space to safely manuver vehicle to side of road - if key is lost by accident (giving better chances to also find it), key is forgotten inside my pocket while giving the car back to the owner (happened to me) or stopping thieves within few meters.
The thing about keyless ignition is that it's not secure. The german automobile association, ADAC, tested keyless ignition systems of cars and they found out that it's pretty easy to read and record the keys signal, walk up to the vehicle and open/start it with zero effort. And you don't even need some expensive hardware, a simple RTL-SDR dongle, a laptop and some open-source software is enough.
Interesting topic. RJ, you must proof-watch your videos many times before uploading to make sure you never miss your face reflection in any parts. That one near the end I wouldn't have even noticed myself, only that you blurred it out. Your dedication to the secret identity is impressive. You must know well how superheros feel ;)
Would be nice if the bike warned you that you are forgetting your fob. I can only imagine dropping the gf off to get the train somewhere and having my key shipped hundreds of miles away!
you dont give it to someone else, when youre leaving the house or whatever...your wife/gf/bf picks up the key for you but forgets to hand it to you. You get on the bike and start as normal and leave.
Do you leave your keys in your jackets too? How about you just be a normal fucking person, take the fob out of your pocket and stick it in a bowl near the door, or in the kitchen? It's really not that hard not to be a fucknut.
Do another test: Start it, leve the fob behind and ride a couple of meters away, killswitch the bike and wait to see what happens. I suppose KTM has put a type of time limit until the bike switches off by it self (something like 10s or perhaps 1min). If that's the case it kind of OK but if the bike stays on indefinitely unless you switch it off manually then it is a bad system :/
Yes I did, the bike stayed on but he went back and got the fob too quickly. I am saying that perhaps KTM put like a timer limit in how long the bike stays on when killswitched and perhaps it will switch off (requiring the fob to turn back on) after a certain amount of time
Nope, There's some regulations somewhere (UK/EU/World ...whatever) that says you can't just kill the system remotely / when key not present, as they "thief" could be just crossing a main junction, joining a motorway/ Crossing rail road tracks etc. and therefore if the system disabled the bike it could cause an accident/injury/death blah blah. The bike will continue to work all the time without the key until the bike is turned off for 15 seconds (You'll need to test that - but in my car that is how it works it will restart within 15 seconds with no key, but after that you need the key to restart).
Tam Tam. Your second paragraph is, I believe, the answer to his question. Whether the bike would power down after you used the kill switch (after a short period of time), i.e. you have turned the engine off, without turning the bike off. Not the same as turning the bike off with the power switch.
Had keyless on my 2012 Multistrada. Left me stranded when the tiny battery died in the fob. Was miles from home, you guessed it the spare key at home. Give me a key any day.
Poor design if there was indeed a battery in the fob itself. KTM's system merely uses the fob as a detectable object and the fob is not powered itself.
how does the bike detect the FOB? The fob it self has to have some kind of an electrical response to the bikes request, so it has to be powered somehow.
Just like cars, if you press push start with your fob, with low battery, it should still start, enough to get you where you need to go. But I wouldn't rely on it more than 2-3 times.
I really like your bike and your channel, I love to see that everything and inspire for me do something. Now I did it already on my channel.just begin Thanks for everything in your channel.
I never knew there was a law stating the vehicle shouldnt switch off when the key goes out of range. I guess it makes sense, say if the key was in your bag/pocket and it fell off for some reason while riding, switching off the bike esp if you are in a highway is a clear disaster! But the other situation regarding kill switch doesnt make much sense. Thanks for the clarification RJ!
awesome. between meter and meter and a half that's genius. thanks for sharing R J i'm learning about a motorcycles from your channel alone more than I do from all the Internet
I think the bike can still be started with kill switch is a feature rather than a bug, on small bikes with keyless ignition, it stated that the bike would notify you using the dash if you turned off the bike while the fob is not in range, and would give you approximately 30s to start the bike back up again. This is useful for let's say when you misplaced your fob while you warm up the bike, and after you reach your destination, you can still start the bike back up and go back home to retrieve your fob.
RJ, congrats on 600,166......from USA. I like how you discovered a (loop hole in keyless ignition) hopefully the software issue does get resolved and you be rewarded or acknowledged. keep ip the good clips......
There's also the direct linie of sight factor, if there is e.g. a restaurant wall in between the range will be reduced. The only time I see this as an issue is if your bike is parked next to your tent. That's why you put in an alarm with a microwave permiter sensor. :) The Scopio 800 I have engages using an RFID fob, it only has a range of about 30cm so that works nicely. Modern bikes with keys will actually keep running too if you remove the key while on the move, apparently. The kill switch not killing the ignition is a safety thing, imaging you hit it while riding along, the engine dies and you pull the clutch, the bike will not ride as well coasting around bends so you should be able to quickly restart it if needed. I suspect that's the thinking anyway.
The "thing" about the killswitch is, that when you forgot or lost your key, lets say... your wife had it in her pocket and you drop her off....you shall still finish your way to your destination or return to her. no problem you say? but wait! what if you stall the bike? then you have the possebility (mostly in the next 30sec or so) to start it again! try wait some more time after using the killswitch.
Well maybe they both go out for the ride, you have your house key on the bike key cause you say: "oh its in my pocket all time so ill put it on there", she forgets something and retunrn into the house while the bike is already running. i know, unusal scenario, but possible.
It’s good for when you need to rebuilt your bike that has been in a heavy front ent accident and the ignition is destroyed lol that’s what I did and it’s pretty cool actually
I think that too many sensors and digital features on a combustion engine bike can lead to malfunction quicker than elder bikes.. If not proper care and money available for frequent maintenance, and a malfunction occurs while abroad on a long trip for ex.. how could you jump-start this? Id rather a bike thats old which anybody or any amateur mechanic can tweak on it to make it work again. Its kind of controversial because we like the new fancy stuff but have to sacrifice some of the benefits of the old. With this said, keyless or non keyless, a thief will still have a lot to steal off of this bike.. If they have enough time they can take a lot.. wheels, fairings, etc.. The most beneficial solution would be: a hidden seperate sensor in the jacket or even underwear if necessary when in proximity of the bike to keep functioning.. Or even a button controller to turn it off or on from distance.. With all this said, there are simple technological solutions for anti theft. But these security features would only be useful while someone attempts stealing your bike while at a traffic light.. If its parked outside overnight you can say goodbye to it..
@@MrChrisBattles let me tell you this .. my buddy bought a BRAND NEW ducati monster snd he installed a keyless ignition and it gave him soo many issues , his bike would randomly shut off while on the highway and then randomly turn on when parked and caused wire shortages and once time he rode it in the rain and it got fried and ruined all his wiring ending up costing him thousands to repairs it is not worried the extra hassle , if it ain’t broke don’t change it ... everyone trynna. And their bike all fancy and it has consequences I’ve seen it first hand
@@Biden2024_ the cables were probably not wired correctly however i get the gist. Too much tech gets complicated.. It's always best to keep it simple and raw... For instance, when you have traction control, abs and more technological assistances on a bike,... The freaking bike is literally driving itself.. It steals the very essence/spirit of RIDING, wheres the pleasure in acquiring and gaining experience.. Getting to know your bike... Being in tune with your bike as one.... And worst of all, some laws in some states imposes all these techs on you forcefully.. If not forcefully they will up your insurance fee which will cause you as a consequence to turn those things on yourself... And worst of all if you have an accident and those assistant techs were off you dont get insurance coverage... I'd rather an amazing engine, 2 breaks and thats it. 'The rest, is in the hands of the world and the rider' For cabled electronics, those are for the electric bikes from the future soon to be.. not for combustion engines.. Anyway, that's my opinion though, others may greatly disagree.
I *think* the kill switch works on a delay, in the event of you stalling your bike. That way the ignition doesn't have to authenticate your key before restarting. Try the same test again, but wait 30 seconds, or maybe 1 minute. Harley Davidson also has keyless ignition on their bikes, backed up with a PIN code. So if you lose your key fob half way through your ride, it breaks, or the battery dies, you can still start the bike with a PIN. It's a good system! Just make sure you change the PIN when buying a used Harley!!
Thanks for explaining, RJ. Nevertheless there are still questions remaining, as you can read. For me it wouldn't be safe enough. Anything with 'remote control' can be tampered with.
RJ. Congrats on 600k subs. Love your Observation videos and I take your opinion on matters of motorcycles on board. Keep up the Good work and here's to you getting a million subs. Thanks RJ :)
@RoyalJordanian: could you please make a video about (classic) British bikes, if you find time for it. I would like to see more about it. Especially how you see them. That would be sooo lovely
Keyless is the way. I have keyless on my 2016 BMW R1200R and it works fantastic. It's the same, about a meter away and no start. With the BMW, if you are away from the key fob and use the kill switch, the bike will not start again until the key fob is near. And also, when I walk away from the bike with the key fob and leave the ignition on, it shuts off automatically within three minutes. No more key left on and dead battery.
at first congrats for your 600k :) second im a security researcher and yes like that bike many other bikes and cars have security failures on the software and that goes from bugs on the code used for the software to back doors that hackers can gain access to. this video you just made you should send it to KTM because thanks to you, one more system failure was found and companies do appreciate all help because detecting bugs, backdoor and system failures isn't a easy job, there fore some companies even reward the people that finds them as a thank you gift. im a bike lover and love your videos, keep up the gr8 work and thank you for your honesty.
As a rather late follow up to your interesting observations on keyless ignition, I have a Honda X-ADV which also has keyless ignition which I believe is the same as the Africa Twin. I wondered if it had that same "problem" regarding the possibility that the engine can be restarted if stopped using the "kill switch", and do you know what - it can! I suppose its because technically the ignition hasn't been switch off. Presumably in mitigation, the battery would soon go flat if the ignition was left on, also on the X-ADV you have to switch the ignition off to release the fuel filler, but given that it has a fuel tank range of about 190 miles that's not much of a consolation! What's really annoying, is that keyless ignition is a fix of a none existent problem, on top of that, you still have carry a key with you anyway to get into the boot to connect an emergency dongle in case you have lost/mislaid the fob or its battery has gone flat etc . One good thing about the Honda "key/fob" is its got a button on it to disable the key/fob in case you have left the bike unattended close by, e.g sitting in a cafe etc, unfortunately my dealer didn't know about this "feature", so when I accidentally pressed the button, it took me a couple of hours of reading the manual and some serious head scratching. ☹
So, I have a very small shed/garage to keep my bikes in. Theoretically I could leave the key on the shelf, close enough to start the bike, ride off without the key, and then be stranded whenever I go to leave work or wherever and find myself without the key? That seems dumb. I appreciate not just killing the bike, in a way, but it should at least flash up warning all over the dash imo. Or going down the thief route, you park up and as soon as you turn your back someone could run up, start the bike if you're still in range and gun it away before you turn around? Or even just turn it on but not start it, so you're not alerted by the engine, then take it. Absolutely confirming my concerns with keyless systems
I hope the 790 Duke will have the keyless ignition. I'm really interested in how that bike will turn out once in the production stage. Might be worth selling my supermoto
Amazing to think that you could think it was in your pocket, drive to work, go to start it at work, realise you don't have the fob! Awesome technology though.
While I don't dispute your demonstration, you must keep in mind that as with any RF signal based mechanism a thief could use a range extender capable of picking up the signal from your KEYFOB at a greater distance and then repeat it within the range the bike is able to read it. That is how thieves get into KEYLESS equipped cars (with the owners' KEYFOB being away out of range in their home) all the time around the world (often just to break-in and steal valuables inside the vehicle). To prevent such thieving workaround, you would need to insert your FEYFOB into a faraday cage type of a pouch for the time you don't want it to start the bike at least...
That's another good thing with electronic rather than mechanical things - if something needs to be altered you don't have to change parts, you just upload an update and you have a new or fixed feature..
thank Jordanian I will keep it in mind when i steal tat kind of a bike to not too switch it off and many many congrats on 600 thousand subs from bike theif community😎😎😎
I always rode/raced Kawasaki or Honda.I wanted a new fun bike.So a new Suzuki GSXr125..First week the battery went flat overnight.Then after only 2200Klms the ECU died.Then after my 5000 Klms service it gives me starting problems.Can't ride it too far from my home,it might stop with another problem.Not fun,no fun,easy start is bullshit.Yhe sooner I buy a Honda the better,real fun because Honda just go n go n go without problems.
Kawasaki Gtr 1400 was one of the first bikes with fob's and came out around 2008 and when you not have the fob near you it used to say no fob detected, which is good , i think KTM might have to do that too, imagine you start your bike at home and your fob fall down on your drive way , you leave the house without a fob and there are no signals that you forget your fob , there you are at work and shut the bike boom you are stuck! Yes as usual Ktm still does things without thinking or giving second thought , i am sure this can be corrected by an update to ECU though, as a 2016 Ktm SuperDuke GT owner Ktm does worst things without thinking a lot, which is not changeable sometimes, like putting the cruise control to right hand side.
Had a Sportster once with FOB and like all Harleys an alarm ... well I wanted to move the bike to wash it ... my neighbors may have heard the alarm sound for a little while ;-)
Someone posted a similar video in the past where he "accidentally " let his wife drive away with the key and his phone in his jacket as he was too hot. He turned off the bike to go into a shop to call her but she would not answer the phone and he ended the video before we found out what happened. I always wondered if this was setup or if it is even possible, now I know it is possible and if not set up, he must have been gutted.
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I'd think manufacturers of passive/smart key systems would make the range way, way low powered than that. And perhaps have the transmitters near the seat area since that'd be closest to the rider's pocket, where their key would likely be anyway but that's just my mode of thinking after experiencing the many variations of passive key tech in the auto world.
I never understood the need to get rid of a necessary item needed for proper functioning. Many people just say they'll keep their fob in their pocket, but things happen, and that's creating a falsehood of security, because the moment you realize you don't have it, it's too late. Whereas keys, you know you have your key or don't have your key, and nobody could steal your bike, unless they have a shaved key. And the worst part is the lack of a psychical way of starting the vehicle when the battery dies in the fob. An emergency key is only good if you have it when you least expect it, in an emergency. But if you don't have that key, you are pretty screwed in getting the vehicle or bike started.
"The law states, any vehicle cannot switch of while on the move unless the key is removed". So if the thief drove off with the bike and you have the key, technically the key is actually removed/away from the vehicle, therefore it should not be illegal in this case.
I've got a keyless Harley has one key for a steering lock on the head stock. It's best thing since sliced bread I think I hate keys too! comes with two fobs but if you loose them you can enter a 4 digit pin on to get it started all bikes should have it!
The only real issue with keyless ignition is when you're up against thieves that know what they're doing. Had a friend with a '15 Range Rover Sport with keyless ignition that was stolen without the key and the car being locked. I believe the thieves stole it using a device that intercepts the signal your key fob sends to the vehicle to unlock the doors and pretend that the key is in the vehicle and stores it for later use when the owners are away. As the owner you may not even notice somethings wrong. The thieves came in at night time with that code ready to use and simply unlocked the car and drove off, they managed to go as far as France! (from London) but the vehicle was luckily equipped with a tracker. I'm unsure of whether this was just a problem with Range Rovers but I think it is as I haven't seen any other cars suffer from it. Keyless ignition is a lot safer than using a normal key, you don't have to take the keys out and leave it exposed, brilliant system that I myself have too on the car.
RJ first off congrats on the 600k subs! Are you planning on doing a video as to why the SD 2.0 against all the competition like you did with the S1000r?
Joe Linn it should give you a warning, and then give you a couple of seconds before shutting off. But staying on is very very bad security and the fact that if you don’t swith off you can still turn on and off is even worse
There must be some sort of reminder on the display to tell you if you accidentally left the fob behind? If not you could get a fair way down the road without knowing.
The keyless ignition works a little different on the Indians. You can still turn the bike on but not fire up the engine without the key nearby. After a minute or so it turns back off. Im guessing there is slight alterations between each brand. For example I dont know if you can use the kill switch on an indian and turn it back on.
So easy fix would be to request a PIN number via pad or touch screen. This will not stop anyone throwing the bike in a van and driving off though. Always lock the bike to something solid to deter the thief scum. :) Also congrats on 600k RJ RSMF*RI* Mr B
Was anyone else concerned about a Crow/Magpie swooping in at 5:15 and taking the keyless fob. You probably could have negotiated another fob during the sale of the scoot btw. TY
Hey RJ, nice vid. But I have one Question: can someone receive the emits of the key and save these informations/signals for example on a laptop while he is next to you and now the laptop (with some hardware) emits the same signal to the bike if the thief is next to the bike. Could he start the bike? Sorry for bad english, i hope you can understand what i mean. Greetings from Germany.
Keine Ahnung if someone could do that they wouldn't be messing with bikes they could steal and car they like cause remote unlocking is pretty much standard on all cars
Tell that to renault users, because thats what was happening with the ''fob'' meganes came out.. Same with range rovers. Im guessing things have now evolved with those errors and that cannot be done again but..
Actually... according to articles such as www.forbes.com/sites/josephsteinberg/2015/05/12/vulnerability-in-car-keyless-entry-systems-allows-anyone-to-open-and-steal-your-car/#1bb2460a2442, most keyless car systems were vulnerable to a simple amplifier, assuming the fob is within 100 or so metres of the vehicle. Even though (probably) a pair of thieves could work over a longer distance, one being close to the fob, the other one to the vehicle. Interestingly enough, while I saw it reported in non-sensationalist media, nobody seemed to really care about this and I haven't seen any comments from the manufacturers. Maybe there is a problem with producing such amplifiers, the approach to security doesn't really seem to me as unusual (sure, it's very bad but bad approach to security is not uncommon), so I'm wondering which such form of robbery is not widespread yet.
I think a proximity sensor on the bike, paired to the key, that's engages when the bike is put into gear would be the ideal solution! That way, if your bike is jacked, all you have to do is run away from your bike & jackers! The proximity sensor would tell the bike computer to disable the engine & engage the steering lock. Ok your bike is probably gonna be stacked where it stands. But I'd rather that, than probably never seeing it again. Just my thoughts! 🏍👍🏻
I have yamaha scooter aerox 155 that has keyless ignition too. it works quite the same like your ktm. there's a feature on my aerox if the engine still running and you drop your keys while riding it. after 1 kilometer the bike will warn you by making a beep sound and the key indicator light is flashing.
you would think that bikes could have finger print sensor and an iris scanner besides the fob key. It wouldn't take much to open the visor and look at the bike's iris scanner.
To all those sending congrats for 600K, Thank you :)
RoyalJordanian :))
RoyalJordanian 600k wishes man...most deserving success
RoyalJordanian Because of the fact that your videos are always nice to watch, I hit the LIKE button even before I watch it. I have never been disappointed and I'm sure it won't be in the future 👍👍👍✌✌✌
RoyalJordanian Congrats!! 🎉🎊you deserve even more!! you are my favourite you tube vlogger!!😎😉
Bob it still has one. Just electric...
I wonder what his reaction would be when he put the fob on the floor and drove away and then saw a squirrel running away with it.....
the moment that RJ realizes that the thief can drive all he wants without the keyfob if he only uses the kill switch was hilarious. In his mind he definitely was like "oh fuck................this sucks" 😂
And i assume that thief will only use the kill switch anyway as he probably has no idea how to turn it off completely other way.
Car Vs Moto i guarantee he's gonna buy extra locks for the duke now.
Well the thing is that the bike still has the electrics running if he uses the kill-switch to turn off the engine. So, I guess that as long as the electrics are running you can start the bike. And the electrics probably only turn on if the key fob is near
there has to be a power-save programmed in the software. After killing the engine the bike should turn off after 5-10 mins.
instead of turning the engine off, The law (then manufacturer ) should allow the car/bike should lose throttle response (as vehicle computers can already do when ESP kicks in) when out of range with the key. This would leave time and space to safely manuver vehicle to side of road - if key is lost by accident (giving better chances to also find it), key is forgotten inside my pocket while giving the car back to the owner (happened to me) or stopping thieves within few meters.
The thing about keyless ignition is that it's not secure. The german automobile association, ADAC, tested keyless ignition systems of cars and they found out that it's pretty easy to read and record the keys signal, walk up to the vehicle and open/start it with zero effort. And you don't even need some expensive hardware, a simple RTL-SDR dongle, a laptop and some open-source software is enough.
Interesting topic.
RJ, you must proof-watch your videos many times before uploading to make sure you never miss your face reflection in any parts. That one near the end I wouldn't have even noticed myself, only that you blurred it out. Your dedication to the secret identity is impressive. You must know well how superheros feel ;)
Would be nice if the bike warned you that you are forgetting your fob. I can only imagine dropping the gf off to get the train somewhere and having my key shipped hundreds of miles away!
I don't get it. You keep the fob in your jacket pocket all the time. When you get to the bike, just get on and ride away.
Yeah, who the fuck would give their key to someone else?
I have multiple Jackets, it wouldnt work, Id be constantly searching through their pockets before I left the house.
you dont give it to someone else, when youre leaving the house or whatever...your wife/gf/bf picks up the key for you but forgets to hand it to you. You get on the bike and start as normal and leave.
Do you leave your keys in your jackets too? How about you just be a normal fucking person, take the fob out of your pocket and stick it in a bowl near the door, or in the kitchen? It's really not that hard not to be a fucknut.
Do another test:
Start it, leve the fob behind and ride a couple of meters away, killswitch the bike and wait to see what happens. I suppose KTM has put a type of time limit until the bike switches off by it self (something like 10s or perhaps 1min).
If that's the case it kind of OK but if the bike stays on indefinitely unless you switch it off manually then it is a bad system :/
Yes I did, the bike stayed on but he went back and got the fob too quickly. I am saying that perhaps KTM put like a timer limit in how long the bike stays on when killswitched and perhaps it will switch off (requiring the fob to turn back on) after a certain amount of time
Nope, There's some regulations somewhere (UK/EU/World ...whatever) that says you can't just kill the system remotely / when key not present, as they "thief" could be just crossing a main junction, joining a motorway/ Crossing rail road tracks etc. and therefore if the system disabled the bike it could cause an accident/injury/death blah blah.
The bike will continue to work all the time without the key until the bike is turned off for 15 seconds (You'll need to test that - but in my car that is how it works it will restart within 15 seconds with no key, but after that you need the key to restart).
Tam Tam.
Your second paragraph is, I believe, the answer to his question.
Whether the bike would power down after you used the kill switch (after a short period of time), i.e. you have turned the engine off, without turning the bike off. Not the same as turning the bike off with the power switch.
I love the keyless ignition on my BMW R12R LC. Never had a problem with it. And so practical. Thanks for clarifying some of the misconceptions.
First of all, congrats for reaching 600k and i like the keyless go. I have it allready in my car and i love it
So, if you steal a duke in the future, just use the killswitch. Thanks RJ for giving this hint to all the thieves :D
Had keyless on my 2012 Multistrada. Left me stranded when the tiny battery died in the fob. Was miles from home, you guessed it the spare key at home. Give me a key any day.
Poor design if there was indeed a battery in the fob itself. KTM's system merely uses the fob as a detectable object and the fob is not powered itself.
how does the bike detect the FOB? The fob it self has to have some kind of an electrical response to the bikes request, so it has to be powered somehow.
Battery still has a small charge, just hold it closer to the bike or the sensor on the bike and it should start.
Just like cars, if you press push start with your fob, with low battery, it should still start, enough to get you where you need to go. But I wouldn't rely on it more than 2-3 times.
sFde46 same as how a tollway tag works. The fob uses the RF signal to power itself.
I have a Diavel with a keyless ignition and I love it, if you lose or forget your fob you can enter a pin to start it. Congrats on 600k RJ
So all I have to do is ask my friend for a short ride.. and then ride away lol
I had no idea you can start the bike with the spare key!! I’m going to have to try that when I get home. Thanks! Nice bike too…sounds great!
I really like your bike and your channel, I love to see that everything and inspire for me do something.
Now I did it already on my channel.just begin
Thanks for everything in your channel.
You should make a clothing brand, I would definitely buy some of your shirts! Congrats on 600K! Keep up the great content man.
I never knew there was a law stating the vehicle shouldnt switch off when the key goes out of range. I guess it makes sense, say if the key was in your bag/pocket and it fell off for some reason while riding, switching off the bike esp if you are in a highway is a clear disaster! But the other situation regarding kill switch doesnt make much sense.
Thanks for the clarification RJ!
Hey Mr.Rj im in London and I hope I see u here, u are so amazing....
Thanks for the info update RJ. Lots of "good to know" there, cheers.
Thanks for the info, I've been thinking about fitting one to my bike. It's good to know it'll still run if the key dies mid-ride.
awesome. between meter and meter and a half that's genius. thanks for sharing R J i'm learning about a motorcycles from your channel alone more than I do from all the Internet
I think the bike can still be started with kill switch is a feature rather than a bug, on small bikes with keyless ignition, it stated that the bike would notify you using the dash if you turned off the bike while the fob is not in range, and would give you approximately 30s to start the bike back up again. This is useful for let's say when you misplaced your fob while you warm up the bike, and after you reach your destination, you can still start the bike back up and go back home to retrieve your fob.
Thanks for the video 👌
You were the only one on youtube I found that explained all my doubts 😊
RJ, congrats on 600,166......from USA. I like how you discovered a (loop hole in keyless ignition) hopefully the software issue does get resolved and you be rewarded or acknowledged. keep ip the good clips......
Can’t agree more with you RJ, Keyless ignition, great idea.
There's also the direct linie of sight factor, if there is e.g. a restaurant wall in between the range will be reduced.
The only time I see this as an issue is if your bike is parked next to your tent. That's why you put in an alarm with a microwave permiter sensor. :) The Scopio 800 I have engages using an RFID fob, it only has a range of about 30cm so that works nicely.
Modern bikes with keys will actually keep running too if you remove the key while on the move, apparently.
The kill switch not killing the ignition is a safety thing, imaging you hit it while riding along, the engine dies and you pull the clutch, the bike will not ride as well coasting around bends so you should be able to quickly restart it if needed.
I suspect that's the thinking anyway.
Hey RJ, congrats on the 600k... You just gave the thieves a complete insight about the keyless ignition for the Superduke... :p
The "thing" about the killswitch is, that when you forgot or lost your key, lets say... your wife had it in her pocket and you drop her off....you shall still finish your way to your destination or return to her. no problem you say? but wait! what if you stall the bike? then you have the possebility (mostly in the next 30sec or so) to start it again! try wait some more time after using the killswitch.
Why would you give the key to someone else?
Well maybe they both go out for the ride, you have your house key on the bike key cause you say: "oh its in my pocket all time so ill put it on there", she forgets something and retunrn into the house while the bike is already running. i know, unusal scenario, but possible.
If you stall the bike it wouldn't be a problem as the ignition would still be live.
Keep the fob separate and just leave it in your riding jacket. Don't include it on any keyring. Sew it in the lining of your coat if you want.
radischn who would leave the house without the key in general anyway? or should I say fob...
I'm a huge fan of the keyless ride on my GS. Makes the filling up much less of a faff also.
*In all honestly I just feel like this is just a use less mod that only brings more problems . But to each their own*
It’s good for when you need to rebuilt your bike that has been in a heavy front ent accident and the ignition is destroyed lol that’s what I did and it’s pretty cool actually
I think that too many sensors and digital features on a combustion engine bike can lead to malfunction quicker than elder bikes.. If not proper care and money available for frequent maintenance, and a malfunction occurs while abroad on a long trip for ex.. how could you jump-start this? Id rather a bike thats old which anybody or any amateur mechanic can tweak on it to make it work again. Its kind of controversial because we like the new fancy stuff but have to sacrifice some of the benefits of the old. With this said, keyless or non keyless, a thief will still have a lot to steal off of this bike.. If they have enough time they can take a lot.. wheels, fairings, etc.. The most beneficial solution would be: a hidden seperate sensor in the jacket or even underwear if necessary when in proximity of the bike to keep functioning.. Or even a button controller to turn it off or on from distance.. With all this said, there are simple technological solutions for anti theft. But these security features would only be useful while someone attempts stealing your bike while at a traffic light.. If its parked outside overnight you can say goodbye to it..
@@MrChrisBattles let me tell you this .. my buddy bought a BRAND NEW ducati monster snd he installed a keyless ignition and it gave him soo many issues , his bike would randomly shut off while on the highway and then randomly turn on when parked and caused wire shortages and once time he rode it in the rain and it got fried and ruined all his wiring ending up costing him thousands to repairs it is not worried the extra hassle , if it ain’t broke don’t change it ... everyone trynna. And their bike all fancy and it has consequences I’ve seen it first hand
@@Biden2024_ the cables were probably not wired correctly however i get the gist. Too much tech gets complicated.. It's always best to keep it simple and raw... For instance, when you have traction control, abs and more technological assistances on a bike,... The freaking bike is literally driving itself.. It steals the very essence/spirit of RIDING, wheres the pleasure in acquiring and gaining experience.. Getting to know your bike... Being in tune with your bike as one.... And worst of all, some laws in some states imposes all these techs on you forcefully.. If not forcefully they will up your insurance fee which will cause you as a consequence to turn those things on yourself... And worst of all if you have an accident and those assistant techs were off you dont get insurance coverage... I'd rather an amazing engine, 2 breaks and thats it. 'The rest, is in the hands of the world and the rider'
For cabled electronics, those are for the electric bikes from the future soon to be.. not for combustion engines.. Anyway, that's my opinion though, others may greatly disagree.
What problems?
I *think* the kill switch works on a delay, in the event of you stalling your bike. That way the ignition doesn't have to authenticate your key before restarting. Try the same test again, but wait 30 seconds, or maybe 1 minute.
Harley Davidson also has keyless ignition on their bikes, backed up with a PIN code. So if you lose your key fob half way through your ride, it breaks, or the battery dies, you can still start the bike with a PIN. It's a good system! Just make sure you change the PIN when buying a used Harley!!
I must say, this video's intro is the best 👍👍
Thanks for explaining, RJ. Nevertheless there are still questions remaining, as you can read. For me it wouldn't be safe enough. Anything with 'remote control' can be tampered with.
I absolutely love that bike! Could you make a short video where you show the headlight? I really like led ones.
Forget about the key fob, that bike sounds amazing!😎
I really appreciate the fact that you really brought a tape measure haha so good rj
RJ. Congrats on 600k subs. Love your Observation videos and I take your opinion on matters of motorcycles on board. Keep up the Good work and here's to you getting a million subs. Thanks RJ :)
@RoyalJordanian: could you please make a video about (classic) British bikes, if you find time for it. I would like to see more about it. Especially how you see them. That would be sooo lovely
Keyless is the way. I have keyless on my 2016 BMW R1200R and it works fantastic. It's the same, about a meter away and no start. With the BMW, if you are away from the key fob and use the kill switch, the bike will not start again until the key fob is near. And also, when I walk away from the bike with the key fob and leave the ignition on, it shuts off automatically within three minutes. No more key left on and dead battery.
at first congrats for your 600k :) second im a security researcher and yes like that bike many other bikes and cars have security failures on the software and that goes from bugs on the code used for the software to back doors that hackers can gain access to. this video you just made you should send it to KTM because thanks to you, one more system failure was found and companies do appreciate all help because detecting bugs, backdoor and system failures isn't a easy job, there fore some companies even reward the people that finds them as a thank you gift. im a bike lover and love your videos, keep up the gr8 work and thank you for your honesty.
As a rather late follow up to your interesting observations on keyless ignition, I have a Honda X-ADV which also has keyless ignition which I believe is the same as the Africa Twin. I wondered if it had that same "problem" regarding the possibility that the engine can be restarted if stopped using the "kill switch", and do you know what - it can! I suppose its because technically the ignition hasn't been switch off. Presumably in mitigation, the battery would soon go flat if the ignition was left on, also on the X-ADV you have to switch the ignition off to release the fuel filler, but given that it has a fuel tank range of about 190 miles that's not much of a consolation!
What's really annoying, is that keyless ignition is a fix of a none existent problem, on top of that, you still have carry a key with you anyway to get into the boot to connect an emergency dongle in case you have lost/mislaid the fob or its battery has gone flat etc . One good thing about the Honda "key/fob" is its got a button on it to disable the key/fob in case you have left the bike unattended close by, e.g sitting in a cafe etc, unfortunately my dealer didn't know about this "feature", so when I accidentally pressed the button, it took me a couple of hours of reading the manual and some serious head scratching. ☹
Clear and simple as always 👍
So, I have a very small shed/garage to keep my bikes in. Theoretically I could leave the key on the shelf, close enough to start the bike, ride off without the key, and then be stranded whenever I go to leave work or wherever and find myself without the key? That seems dumb. I appreciate not just killing the bike, in a way, but it should at least flash up warning all over the dash imo. Or going down the thief route, you park up and as soon as you turn your back someone could run up, start the bike if you're still in range and gun it away before you turn around? Or even just turn it on but not start it, so you're not alerted by the engine, then take it. Absolutely confirming my concerns with keyless systems
I hope the 790 Duke will have the keyless ignition. I'm really interested in how that bike will turn out once in the production stage. Might be worth selling my supermoto
Amazing to think that you could think it was in your pocket, drive to work, go to start it at work, realise you don't have the fob! Awesome technology though.
This intro is the best!
While I don't dispute your demonstration, you must keep in mind that as with any RF signal based mechanism a thief could use a range extender capable of picking up the signal from your KEYFOB at a greater distance and then repeat it within the range the bike is able to read it. That is how thieves get into KEYLESS equipped cars (with the owners' KEYFOB being away out of range in their home) all the time around the world (often just to break-in and steal valuables inside the vehicle). To prevent such thieving workaround, you would need to insert your FEYFOB into a faraday cage type of a pouch for the time you don't want it to start the bike at least...
congratulations for your 600k
That's another good thing with electronic rather than mechanical things - if something needs to be altered you don't have to change parts, you just upload an update and you have a new or fixed feature..
Congratulations RJ, the videos are now translated eu portugues (BR)
thank Jordanian I will keep it in mind when i steal tat kind of a bike to not too switch it off and many many congrats on 600 thousand subs from bike theif community😎😎😎
best thing since sliced bread, I love keyless, I am now looking at kits to make my keyed bike keyless
another great video! I love the idea of a keyless ignition bike.
I always rode/raced Kawasaki or Honda.I wanted a new fun bike.So a new Suzuki GSXr125..First week the battery went flat overnight.Then after only 2200Klms the ECU died.Then after my 5000 Klms service it gives me starting problems.Can't ride it too far from my home,it might stop with another problem.Not fun,no fun,easy start is bullshit.Yhe sooner I buy a Honda the better,real fun because Honda just go n go n go without problems.
Thanks for the videos RJ. Bike is awesome
Kawasaki Gtr 1400 was one of the first bikes with fob's and came out around 2008 and when you not have the fob near you it used to say no fob detected, which is good , i think KTM might have to do that too, imagine you start your bike at home and your fob fall down on your drive way , you leave the house without a fob and there are no signals that you forget your fob , there you are at work and shut the bike boom you are stuck! Yes as usual Ktm still does things without thinking or giving second thought , i am sure this can be corrected by an update to ECU though, as a 2016 Ktm SuperDuke GT owner Ktm does worst things without thinking a lot, which is not changeable sometimes, like putting the cruise control to right hand side.
Thank you RJ that was an excellently informative video. :)
it's a shame the bike isn't allowed to auto shut off, if outside the range of the key fob.
But all very interesting.
nice job getting 600k dude. awsome!!!!
I was waiting for a squirrel to jump out of a bush and steal the fob thinking it's a nut :D :P
I'm with you RJ, I hate keychains on bikes. I've seen too many upper triple clamps all scratched up. Looks like crap.
Had a Sportster once with FOB and like all Harleys an alarm ... well I wanted to move the bike to wash it ... my neighbors may have heard the alarm sound for a little while ;-)
Someone posted a similar video in the past where he "accidentally " let his wife drive away with the key and his phone in his jacket as he was too hot. He turned off the bike to go into a shop to call her but she would not answer the phone and he ended the video before we found out what happened.
I always wondered if this was setup or if it is even possible, now I know it is possible and if not set up, he must have been gutted.
I'd think manufacturers of passive/smart key systems would make the range way, way low powered than that. And perhaps have the transmitters near the seat area since that'd be closest to the rider's pocket, where their key would likely be anyway but that's just my mode of thinking after experiencing the many variations of passive key tech in the auto world.
Big Gz on 600k and love the video's !
I never understood the need to get rid of a necessary item needed for proper functioning. Many people just say they'll keep their fob in their pocket, but things happen, and that's creating a falsehood of security, because the moment you realize you don't have it, it's too late. Whereas keys, you know you have your key or don't have your key, and nobody could steal your bike, unless they have a shaved key. And the worst part is the lack of a psychical way of starting the vehicle when the battery dies in the fob. An emergency key is only good if you have it when you least expect it, in an emergency. But if you don't have that key, you are pretty screwed in getting the vehicle or bike started.
That bike is unreal gorgeous
congrats for 600k
Love that V Twin sound
"The law states, any vehicle cannot switch of while on the move unless the key is removed".
So if the thief drove off with the bike and you have the key, technically the key is actually removed/away from the vehicle, therefore it should not be illegal in this case.
How funny would it have been if a bird swooped in and took the fob when he was leaving it on the ground and rode around.
I've got a keyless Harley has one key for a steering lock on the head stock. It's best thing since sliced bread I think I hate keys too! comes with two fobs but if you loose them you can enter a 4 digit pin on to get it started all bikes should have it!
The only real issue with keyless ignition is when you're up against thieves that know what they're doing. Had a friend with a '15 Range Rover Sport with keyless ignition that was stolen without the key and the car being locked. I believe the thieves stole it using a device that intercepts the signal your key fob sends to the vehicle to unlock the doors and pretend that the key is in the vehicle and stores it for later use when the owners are away. As the owner you may not even notice somethings wrong. The thieves came in at night time with that code ready to use and simply unlocked the car and drove off, they managed to go as far as France! (from London) but the vehicle was luckily equipped with a tracker. I'm unsure of whether this was just a problem with Range Rovers but I think it is as I haven't seen any other cars suffer from it. Keyless ignition is a lot safer than using a normal key, you don't have to take the keys out and leave it exposed, brilliant system that I myself have too on the car.
RJ first off congrats on the 600k subs! Are you planning on doing a video as to why the SD 2.0 against all the competition like you did with the S1000r?
The engine should cut off if the bike is ridden without the fob in range.
Artur but what if the fob falls out of your pocket
Artur yes
Joe Linn it should give you a warning, and then give you a couple of seconds before shutting off. But staying on is very very bad security and the fact that if you don’t swith off you can still turn on and off is even worse
So weird to think that they can change a bike using an update, not a mechanical fix, I like it!
There must be some sort of reminder on the display to tell you if you accidentally left the fob behind? If not you could get a fair way down the road without knowing.
The keyless ignition works a little different on the Indians. You can still turn the bike on but not fire up the engine without the key nearby. After a minute or so it turns back off. Im guessing there is slight alterations between each brand. For example I dont know if you can use the kill switch on an indian and turn it back on.
I think it should be a proximity keyless FOB, so when the bike is out of range the bike automatically shuts down and alarms preventing theft.
Congrats on 600k!!! :D
So easy fix would be to request a PIN number via pad or touch screen. This will not stop anyone throwing the bike in a van and driving off though. Always lock the bike to something solid to deter the thief scum. :)
Also congrats on 600k RJ
RSMF*RI*
Mr B
Was anyone else concerned about a Crow/Magpie swooping in at 5:15 and taking the keyless fob. You probably could have negotiated another fob during the sale of the scoot btw. TY
Hey rj i have a suggestion. I use a remote to kill the gas intake by remote just incase some one takes it
I like your video s royal Jordanian they are fun and also gives you riding civic sense ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️👍👍👍👍👍 love from 🇵🇰
That bike is gorgeous
Nice video! But i have one more question: What happens if you try to pushstart it?
I was curious how they handled lost fobs. Good to know.
Hey RJ,
nice vid. But I have one Question: can someone receive the emits of the key and save these informations/signals for example on a laptop while he is next to you and now the laptop (with some hardware) emits the same signal to the bike if the thief is next to the bike. Could he start the bike?
Sorry for bad english, i hope you can understand what i mean.
Greetings from Germany.
Keine Ahnung if someone could do that they wouldn't be messing with bikes they could steal and car they like cause remote unlocking is pretty much standard on all cars
Even if they can it will be for a one time only as the code changes after every start.
OK. Thank you RJ.
It is praiseworthy that you with 600,000 subscribers still comment on comments. This is not often the case.
Btw. congrats for 600K.
Tell that to renault users, because thats what was happening with the ''fob'' meganes came out.. Same with range rovers. Im guessing things have now evolved with those errors and that cannot be done again but..
Actually... according to articles such as www.forbes.com/sites/josephsteinberg/2015/05/12/vulnerability-in-car-keyless-entry-systems-allows-anyone-to-open-and-steal-your-car/#1bb2460a2442, most keyless car systems were vulnerable to a simple amplifier, assuming the fob is within 100 or so metres of the vehicle. Even though (probably) a pair of thieves could work over a longer distance, one being close to the fob, the other one to the vehicle.
Interestingly enough, while I saw it reported in non-sensationalist media, nobody seemed to really care about this and I haven't seen any comments from the manufacturers. Maybe there is a problem with producing such amplifiers, the approach to security doesn't really seem to me as unusual (sure, it's very bad but bad approach to security is not uncommon), so I'm wondering which such form of robbery is not widespread yet.
amazing bike. amazing video. keep it coming sir..
Good informative video RJ
Interesting. I learned something. Thanks.
I think a proximity sensor on the bike, paired to the key, that's engages when the bike is put into gear would be the ideal solution!
That way, if your bike is jacked, all you have to do is run away from your bike & jackers! The proximity sensor would tell the bike computer to disable the engine & engage the steering lock. Ok your bike is probably gonna be stacked where it stands. But I'd rather that, than probably never seeing it again. Just my thoughts! 🏍👍🏻
I don't know why it's such a hot topic for everyone, at the end of the day, if a bike thief wants the bike, they'll take it with or without the key.
nice vídeo. congrats for the 600k
I have yamaha scooter aerox 155 that has keyless ignition too. it works quite the same like your ktm. there's a feature on my aerox if the engine still running and you drop your keys while riding it. after 1 kilometer the bike will warn you by making a beep sound and the key indicator light is flashing.
you would think that bikes could have finger print sensor and an iris scanner besides the fob key. It wouldn't take much to open the visor and look at the bike's iris scanner.
You're F***ing A White Male!
There comes a time everybody has a unique chip implanted. That would solve a lot of problems... LOL
Well not really convinced, it will never be a must have for me
congrats for 600K from philippines
Couldn't you argument that removing the keyfob from the range is the equivalent as removing a key from the ignition?
Very informative & good to know for future 17´Superduke owners :)
Greetings
Congratulations for your 600k sir :)