Perceived Autonomy vs. Actual Autonomy: It’s Okay to Say No to Controlling Church Spaces - Ep 216
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
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Biblical Counseling post on 98 ways you can sign against your husband: baremarriage.com/2019/06/sinn...
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John MacArthur Sermon Clip: www.gty.org/library/sermons-l...
As a church minister, I want to be available to support people, but not pry into lives; I want to be questioned and encourage people to voice questions of faith and of God; we have church members but not really any rules (members get a vote at church meeting - as the chair I have no vote); and counselling is for professionals only - I or others can be a pastoral friend alongside, but just as no-one would expect me to do heart surgery based on the Bible, neither should they for mental and emotional health
Beautiful, we need more like this!
Re toxic sermon quote at the end - these are the roots of why churches can be so toxic to singles, especially lifelong singles. We can only please God and be fulfilled by marriage and children?? Glad you included it to call it out.
I grew up in a tiny rural Methodist church before the UMC was progressive. We always got the first year pastors 😂 every other week. When he would start preaching good, the district big wigs would ship him off to bigger and better churches. So, I never got attached to a preacher. Now, that I’m in Leslie Vernick’s private group for abusive marriages it strikes me as odd how many women feel like they have to get permission from their church to separate or divorce. Your episode helps explain 👍🏼
I'm doing the core program too 😅
I am in that group also. When I was a teen I went to my youth pastor's wife for counseling. She spread what I said all over the church. I learned the hard way you can not trust church leadership. They are not my final authority.
@@kathy3178 I am so sorry that lady gossiped about you. What a cruel, nasty person!
When I met my husband, I was working full-time, attending college full-time, and had my own place. I can assure McArthur that I wasn't looking for a savior or even a husband. My plan was to stay single and continue to build my own life. I definitely wasn't lonely or looking for a man to fulfill, protect, or guide me.
It’s amazing to me (as someone who was raised half-RCC, half-Calvary) how increasingly evangelical Protestantism behaves like the historic RCC while also constantly pontificating about how awful the RCC is…
Such an important topic! My beliefs that were hammered into me as a young believer caused so much harm later in my life. I didnt know my freedom or rights. I didnt know I could divorce my abusive ex husband and that kept me trapped for almost 9 years. Its crazy to me that church leaders think they have the right to have authority over others when God has granted us free will. Living in freedom and embracing your own autonomy is such a beautiful thing. Thats why I have started a youtube channel to question the things weve been told at church. All of us can make can make such a difference!
On another note, its sickening how church membership is often about protecting the church, not the people. People dont seem to understand when I share with them the problems with church membership.
John MacArthur, USDA prime grade A bloviator…
This was EXCELLENT. I don't know if y'all have heard of Dr. Steven Hassan, but he talks a lot about control tactics of cults and high-control groups. So much of what you were saying in the first half of the podcast reminds me of him, in case you want to dive into the topic further.
Yes, put no man on a pedestal. I had pastor tell me to be kinder to manipulative spouse. Really?😮😅
Yeah, pastor's wife told me to Pray for my abusive husband (what do you think I've been doing for a decade!) And that I did Not have permission to leave 🤦♀️
Yes! 35:14 i was having some problems in mental health that affected my H and our marriage. So he sent a flying monkey who was a nouthetic "biblical" counselor. I smelled a rat, so my first question to her was how she handled confidentiality in her practice. Her response was so oblivious, she clearly didnt know about HIPAA and quite agreeably informed me that she could do whatever i wanted in that regard. Needless to say and thankfully, i didnot use her services. For so many reasons.
Listening to the MacArthur clip made me laugh, but I was rather confused; I was coming up through youth group during the purity movement, but even teachers under that influence were emphatic that we as girls did NOT need a guy to make our lives fulfilled and meaningful - that's what Jesus was supposed to give us, as well as salvation. Did the teachers get everything right? Perhaps not, but they didn't want us to grow up to be women who were desperate to seek a man's validation over God's. (This, I think, was the most loving message that they gave us.)
Does MacArthur know that he's potentially caused a whole mess of problems among the young women who may have bought into his (heavily flawed) idea?
And you only have power if the listener agrees with you. Remember to keep thinking, people, no matter how much you've agreed with previous podcasts. 😊❤
Corrie Ten Boom did so much for the Kingdom and went through so much and was never married!
Also if woman need saving why did God say Adam was lonely and needed a wife?
Can you do an episode talking about male virgins marrying non virgin women? As well as how Christian women perceive virgin men? I’m asking this because male virginity is at an all time high. 30% of men ages 18-30 in the United States are virgins. The numbers are similar in other countries. I’ve seen some testimonies of men saving themselves for non-virgin women. Don’t get me wrong I’m not complaining. It’s just an interesting topic and a growing trend I’ve seen of late.
My mother was my first spiritual abuser. Later, she tried to orchestrate a marriage between me and my spiritually abusive youth pastor.
Regarding the Johnny Mac sermon clip, I thought our greatest call in this life was to make disciples of all nations. That we are to preach and teach and evangelize until Jesus comes back. Also, is God not our provider and protector and good, great, chief shepherd? Why do men need to be saviors for anyone? How can you teach total depravity and then say men can be like gods to their families? I get the symbolism overall like Sheila pointed out before she asked Keith to unleash his thoughts lol but this makes me question if God is insufficient if men can lose jobs, hide money, tell their wives they're doing "enough" because they're providing shelter and food and clothing, when marriage and family are so much more than basic essentials being met. And I thought we all are to find our joy and completeness in Christ, not in man or woman (Gal 1:10, Phil 2-4). And no believer is higher than the other. Husbands and wives in a Christian marriage are still brother and sister in Christ and will no longer be married in heaven. And before those words from Ephesians 5, we're told to submit to one another in reverence for Christ. So ultimately it's a mutuality in marriage still, to look to the interests of each other. Man.....I have friends in Masters Seminary right now..... please pray for them and their wives and children.
BritBox is the bees knees, right?! As a survivor of CSAM myself, thank you for using the correct terminology and understanding its importance - it's really validating to hear. Would love to hear you talk more about how "society is set up for [survivors to get their autonomy back]" - this is different to what I and other survivors have experienced, so keen to learn and hear you expand on this concept.
But aren't all abuses other than physical still DV? I have observed many types of abuses falling under the guise of spiritual abuse.
The wives were trying to submit but their husbands were just dudes who went to church 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Yessss!! Life changing when I realized that ha 😅
What do you mean by 44:17 by being called away from the church. Do you mean the local church or church in general?
I would love to hear you guys speak on the 5013C churches, and why that's a red flag!
It sounds like MacArthur has put marriage and sex on a pedestal. It's a god to him and that is very sad to hear.
Women lost personal autonomy when we allowed male doctors to manage childbirth. Where do that get us? One in every 3 women gets a cesarean section. Birth needs to return to women’s domain, meaning both in her home and on her terms, so we can regain our authority over our bodies.
What about female doctors and he support of medical facilities? Home doesn't work for all births. Rather than just ditch hospital options, I would ask what the factors are for the level of c sections? Is it medical advice, or are women seeing it as a predictable factor?
Issues will vary in different countries, eg where medical care is free at the point of need, choices by the women, their families are less affected by costs. Home births are an option and always should be, but good pre natal care helps everyone have a sense of what the risk levels may be and that can inform choice. And of course there is always the unpredictable risks, so hospital back up plan is important.
Yes pregnancy and birth are natural but it is also something that demands a lot from a human body and before those pesky doctors, and in places without them, women and babies die, that needn't.
There are a LOT of things that can go wrong in childbirth. I think we're so used to low maternal death rates that we often lose sight of how many women used to die during or shortly after childbirth (the same thing happens with vaccination). The issue isn't so much that men were overseeing the birthing process (in some cultures, male midwives are actually the norm) as it is that women were not given access to professional training in the same way men were, and so were shut out of the conversation.
I have not given birth, but from my friends sharing their stories, i somehow got this idea that the process is most certainly not under the woman's control, even if the doc is a woman. Most of the process is this known normal sequence of involuntary bodily functions. So I'm not believing a high level of personal autonomy in childbirth really exists.
@@micahbush5397 the studies done in the 80’s showed the opposite. Problems during birth were rare when women simply helped women. In every province, the mortality rate increased, yes INCREASED, when women were encouraged to give birth in hospitals, according to the government task force on the implementation of midwifery, 1987.