Guys, this was the very best video on the swing! I have been turning my hips at the start of the backswing and at arms parallel, I'd already turned my hips at least 30-40 degrees, BAD!!! I practiced your backswing in my garage right now and Woa, what a different swing. it has less movement and therefore less to go wrong. WOW!!!!!
A really great video! That the pro’s shoulders and pelvis are slightly open at the start of the swing is very interesting and probably more important than we realize since it results in more momentum earlier in the backswing producing natural wrist cock and loading of the club at at the top of the backswing. From some of your other videos I notice that some of the pros use this moment at the top to make slight adjustments. to club face angle. After seeing this video I exaggerate this in practice by starting the backswing from arms parallel on the right and get a great feel for momentum. Too bad the ball is in the way, or this might be a good way to start the swing! i
Nice video. This golfer in the video reminds me of Rafael Cabrera-Bello - a very neutral takeaway with the club-head not getting to much 'above the hands'. Also the slightly extended right arm and slight shift to the right are in Rafa's swing. From pro-to-pro this takeaway sequence can change slightly - Justin Rose has more 'set' of his hands 'straight off' the ball whereas Jason Day has almost no set. Very good point about the slightly 'open' position of the body at address (some pros get this by their slight 'forward press' before the takeaway). This is excellent instruction -though it's worth remembering that some pros deviate from this quite a bit - Dustin Johnson's hands are very 'active' away from the ball and move the club right 'above the plane' on the takeaway quite quickly - it works for him but you often don't get that in the 'computer model' where you are essentially looking at a 'statistically streamlined' version of a lot of good swings combined as one.
Good points, Michael, and it's why we try to show the commonalities or norms rather than the exceptions. The exceptions and outliers are much easier to see on video and much of the attention in many cases, but the "norms" are much more interesting to us as instructors and are usually more impactful for the majority of golfers.
Another fantastically instructive video. Could you make a follow up video with the same Gears avatar showing completion of the backswing and focusing on wrist hinge? Thanks for your consideration
I just would like to know how to contact you guys and say thank you for all the information I have absorbed. I truly feel that I am onto something here because I went to my club after work to work on my swing and all I was focused on was Center of Mass and Center of Pressure from one of your videos. I’m 55 years old and have never struck the ball so solidly like this before. I didn’t have to worry about weight transfer or shifting my weight which is what too many golfers do these days. All I did was start my swing by applying pressure in my left foot pushing into the ground which transferred my Center of pressure to my right foot starting into my backswing and when my left arm was parallel to the ground I had most of my pressure on my right foot and and before I completed my backswing my Center of Pressure was starting to transfer back to my left foot where I applied as much force as I could and the strike was pure into the ball. This is simply amazing. I wish that I was 30 years younger because I would give those youngsters something to think about on the Tour!
Love hearing that, James! Thanks for taking the time to share it. If you need to reach us for anything, shoot us an email to swing@athleticmotiongolf.com
I got the bad move of lifting my arms off and too high during the backswing and discovered if I get the club head moving up by hinging early (my feel), I can set the club better.
I've noticed in many of your videos that the ball position with irons, relative to the leading edge of the club at address, is very much toward the heel side of center. My question is, is there a reason for this? I've always setup with the ball closer to center, or slightly toe side.
Do you see pros setting up open with all clubs? With irons, intuitively I would think they are setting up aimed slightly left because they’re hitting the ball with a negative AoA which would shift their path to the right and necessitate setting up aimed slightly to the left. Love your content, thanks!
Looks like there wouldn't be a lot of chest rotation early with this method? I really like the concept and have pretty much always had some early chest/shoulder rotation, and end up with the body and club and arms out of sync quite a bit, and with not a lot of wrist cock. Have experimented with this type of swing, takes some getting used to but it seems to work well with the last half of the backswing feeling very good. Seems in the ball park of a right forearm takeaway.
Correct. There's arm lift and rotation in every takeaway. The right blend is what the goal should be. Most golfers we see are biased towards too much rotation early with too much lift late.
Just discovered this excellent video. One question- with the pro model , the right arm moves significantly away from the body with the movement of the left arm but when, at the end, you demonstrate the one arm swing, you are grabbing the club with the right arm hanging straight down close to the body. Should the right arm be moving away or staying attached?
This is my favourite channel by far! I had a couple of questions on this as I think it’s so important yet so hard to get right. 1. Effectively when the club is parallel, the average pro has barely any wrist hinge. Therefore the pros are relying on making sure their arms are rising to keep the club staying on plane and not getting underplane? 2. You don’t mention forearm roll with the lead arm here. Is there any forearm roll to club parallel or does this take place together with the cocking of the club. Thank you if you get time to reply. Richard
Excellent video my question to you is do you have a preference on the initial part of the take away is it more and left side dominant or more right side dominant in the 1st part of the take away Some teachers say pull with the trail side and Others say Push with the left side which one do you guys prefer is 1 better than the other
Both sides are involved, so they both need to do their part, but golfers will often FEEL that one is more dominant than the other. Put the club in the correct spot, then notice which felt right for you in getting it there. Go with that.
Could you comment on the forearm rotation changes during the takeaway? The shaft has to go from perpendicular to the target line at setup to parallel at the end of the takeaway so there must be a considerable amount of forearm rotation involved. Thank you.
Why isn't there more shoulder rotation during the takeaway while taking the club back to parallel? I chronically under rotate my left shoulder. My instructor has me put the butt-end of the club in my chest and practice the takeaway to feel the shoulder turn and maintain a triangle with my arms. Is that too much left shoulder rotation during the takeaway? At the 4:00 minute mark of the video, the virtual golfer has almost no left shoulder turn while the club is parallel. I'm trying to figure out how much shoulder turn to have during my takeaway since I'm struggling with this in my own swing.
Try this... start at address then go to the top of your swing. That amount of turn at the top is your reference. Now divide that in half... that is how much you should have half way back. Now divide that in half... that is how much you should have in the takeaway. That's a handy little reference that is pretty close to the ratios we see in good swings.
Thanks for all the videos. At the end (6:35 to 6:40) where you and the avatar are together on screen showing the club horizontal position: your right elbow is close to your side, but the avatar's right elbow is quite far away (front view). Can you please comment on this quite significant difference? Thanks again
For this golfer to complete his backswing, he is going to have to do a lot of late shoulder rotation near the end of his backswing, which, since he is a pro, I have no doubt he accomplishes. But since most amateurs fail to fully rotate their shoulders by the time they reach the top of their backswing, wouldn't it make more sense for them (I mean us) to start the rotation of the shoulders earlier rather than later, which, I think, would mean starting the takeaway with more of a rotation of the shoulders and less of a swinging of the arms before the shoulder rotation as this pro seems to prefer? By the way, your approach to explaining the golf swing is the best I have seen and has dramatically helped my own swing, but I don't see how the absence of an early shoulder rotation, as shown here, would work well for most of us.
You can't leave out the effect the difference has on the club. Many golfers don't get good shoulder rotation at the top because they get too much too early and are forced to just lift late trying to get the club in some sort of playable position. Changing this sequence does wonders for both😉
Does the tailbone ever move left? It doesn't seem like it with gears, but many instructors still seem to promote the tail bone moving toward the target on the backswing.
The center of the pelvis moves away from the target in the backswing, so maybe in some cases, the actual tailbone might move fractionally closer since it sits behind the center but we don't see it move inches forward.
Great Video. As usual the fantastic detail of the Gears system throws up more questions.For instance, when the overhead view of the video is stopped torso is at zero degrees, the shoulders appear closed. And, in the position of address they appear square when the torso is open. Can you explain why this is so? Does it relate to the setup at address or is there something going on with the shoulders in the takeaway?
More to do with address and how the hands are placed on the club. Once it starts moving, the right arm bends as the club is moving across the body a bit... all contributing to the closing of the shoulders.
Like the right arm aspect. I had no knowledge of this. You keep unlocking more secrets. In terms of the position of address and the grip; Should there be some protraction of the left shoulder in this regard, and maybe some retraction of the right? Can you use the Bones overhead to find out?
OK, thanks. Great info. Could you tell me - what is the best way to achieve the open torso setup with the apparently square shoulders. Should I open the torso, then square, the shoulders when I take my grip. Or some other procedure?
What is it that’s starting the takeaway? Should the feeling be the right shoulder pulling the club back for a right handed golfer or is it the left shoulder working under the chin?
Athletic Motion Golf so hands first? I have a problem taking the club outside with my first motion and I’m trying to find a trigger to get the club working more from the inside
At minute 6:35, I see Mike's right arm is hanging straight down along the outside of his right leg with the elbow bent. The pro on the other hand has his right arm much less bent and extended considerably further away from his right leg, giving him a wider swing arc. Could you two please comment on this. Thanks. Always watch your videos.
I have so many questions!! Please help. The club head looks like it goes slightly outside in the first few inches of the swing. Is this normal or is this golfer trying to hit a cut? Does the wrist angle basically stay the same until about thigh high area? I’ve seen great improvement ball striking wise by having the thought of locking my wrist at the start of my takeaway to maintain the angle initially or really just keeping them out of the swing as much as possible
Mike regarding the pros being slightly open at address, you said that you don't know how often this is intentional. Does this mean they may not know they are doing this, or that they don't always set up this way? Thanks
Everyone we've seen practices setting up square. But I think because of the hands being a bit forward at setup, the body is a "titch" (new Tiger term I heard the other day lol) open. I don't think anyone is necessarily trying to do it.
How about a checkpoint of how the right arm is higher than the left in the take away and you should try and "feel" that all the way to the top to put you in a great spot and not suck it inside,,thx!!!
I would like to know how that 139 degree angle between shaft and left arm at the start is achieved. I mean if you grip the club more diagonal then you need to compensate the angle more with your wrist then when you grip it more perpendicular? Is always a tension in the wrist needed to maintain a minimum amount of angle?
That is his angle, your angle might be different depending on your grip and wrist mobility. We've never tried to get golfers into a specific angle, but do like the butt of the club pointing just north of belt buckle.
If the virtual magnetic pointer is pointing level to the ground at club parallel to the ground on the backswing, that will make for a different amount of forearm rotation depending on the club . That doesn’t make sense. What am I missing?
This video was done with a 7 iron. The motion to get it done with a 7 will be good for the rest of your clubs. It's a visual reference not something to obsess over with each club😉
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This instruction provides great a series of check points that are vital in loading the swing properly and consistent . Great Job!
Thanks for watching, Peter!
Guys, this was the very best video on the swing! I have been turning my hips at the start of the backswing and at arms parallel, I'd already turned my hips at least 30-40 degrees, BAD!!!
I practiced your backswing in my garage right now and Woa, what a different swing. it has less movement and therefore less to go wrong. WOW!!!!!
A really great video!
That the pro’s shoulders and pelvis are slightly open at the start of the swing is very interesting and probably more important than we realize since it results in more momentum earlier in the backswing producing natural wrist cock and loading of the club at at the top of the backswing. From some of your other videos I notice that some of the pros use this moment at the top to make slight adjustments. to club face angle.
After seeing this video I exaggerate this in practice by starting the backswing from arms parallel on the right and get a great feel for momentum. Too bad the ball is in the way, or this might be a good way to start the swing! i
Nice video. This golfer in the video reminds me of Rafael Cabrera-Bello - a very neutral takeaway with the club-head not getting to much 'above the hands'. Also the slightly extended right arm and slight shift to the right are in Rafa's swing. From pro-to-pro this takeaway sequence can change slightly - Justin Rose has more 'set' of his hands 'straight off' the ball whereas Jason Day has almost no set. Very good point about the slightly 'open' position of the body at address (some pros get this by their slight 'forward press' before the takeaway).
This is excellent instruction -though it's worth remembering that some pros deviate from this quite a bit - Dustin Johnson's hands are very 'active' away from the ball and move the club right 'above the plane' on the takeaway quite quickly - it works for him but you often don't get that in the 'computer model' where you are essentially looking at a 'statistically streamlined' version of a lot of good swings combined as one.
Good points, Michael, and it's why we try to show the commonalities or norms rather than the exceptions. The exceptions and outliers are much easier to see on video and much of the attention in many cases, but the "norms" are much more interesting to us as instructors and are usually more impactful for the majority of golfers.
Oldie but goodie.
Another fantastically instructive video. Could you make a follow up video with the same Gears avatar showing completion of the backswing and focusing on wrist hinge? Thanks for your consideration
Absolutely👍
I just would like to know how to contact you guys and say thank you for all the information I have absorbed. I truly feel that I am onto something here because I went to my club after work to work on my swing and all I was focused on was Center of Mass and Center of Pressure from one of your videos. I’m 55 years old and have never struck the ball so solidly like this before. I didn’t have to worry about weight transfer or shifting my weight which is what too many golfers do these days. All I did was start my swing by applying pressure in my left foot pushing into the ground which transferred my Center of pressure to my right foot starting into my backswing and when my left arm was parallel to the ground I had most of my pressure on my right foot and and before I completed my backswing my Center of Pressure was starting to transfer back to my left foot where I applied as much force as I could and the strike was pure into the ball. This is simply amazing. I wish that I was 30 years younger because I would give those youngsters something to think about on the Tour!
Love hearing that, James! Thanks for taking the time to share it.
If you need to reach us for anything, shoot us an email to swing@athleticmotiongolf.com
I got the bad move of lifting my arms off and too high during the backswing and discovered if I get the club head moving up by hinging early (my feel), I can set the club better.
I've noticed in many of your videos that the ball position with irons, relative to the leading edge of the club at address, is very much toward the heel side of center. My question is, is there a reason for this? I've always setup with the ball closer to center, or slightly toe side.
Just grabbing a club and practising that drill in my living room :)
Do you see pros setting up open with all clubs? With irons, intuitively I would think they are setting up aimed slightly left because they’re hitting the ball with a negative AoA which would shift their path to the right and necessitate setting up aimed slightly to the left. Love your content, thanks!
Good question, Adam. We'll do a video for you like this with a driver to show any differences and similarities.
Thank you for your unique and effective teaching style. Does the rear hip rotation towards the target, initiate the takeaway?
Looks like there wouldn't be a lot of chest rotation early with this method? I really like the concept and have pretty much always had some early chest/shoulder rotation, and end up with the body and club and arms out of sync quite a bit, and with not a lot of wrist cock. Have experimented with this type of swing, takes some getting used to but it seems to work well with the last half of the backswing feeling very good. Seems in the ball park of a right forearm takeaway.
Correct. There's arm lift and rotation in every takeaway. The right blend is what the goal should be. Most golfers we see are biased towards too much rotation early with too much lift late.
Just discovered this excellent video. One question- with the pro model , the right arm moves significantly away from the body with the movement of the left arm but when, at the end, you demonstrate the one arm swing, you are grabbing the club with the right arm hanging straight down close to the body. Should the right arm be moving away or staying attached?
It will definitely not stay attached👍
Hey ....have you ever done a video of the anatomical snuff box on the lead hand or both hands? Thank you in advance for your answer!!!
This is my favourite channel by far! I had a couple of questions on this as I think it’s so important yet so hard to get right. 1. Effectively when the club is parallel, the average pro has barely any wrist hinge. Therefore the pros are relying on making sure their arms are rising to keep the club staying on plane and not getting underplane?
2. You don’t mention forearm roll with the lead arm here. Is there any forearm roll to club parallel or does this take place together with the cocking of the club. Thank you if you get time to reply. Richard
1. Yes
2. Yes. That's what's helping to get the clubface levelish with the ground.
Thanks for watching, Richard!
Excellent video my question to you is do you have a preference on the initial part of the take away is it more and left side dominant or more right side dominant in the 1st part of the take away Some teachers say pull with the trail side and Others say Push with the left side which one do you guys prefer is 1 better than the other
Both sides are involved, so they both need to do their part, but golfers will often FEEL that one is more dominant than the other. Put the club in the correct spot, then notice which felt right for you in getting it there. Go with that.
Could you comment on the forearm rotation changes during the takeaway? The shaft has to go from perpendicular to the target line at setup to parallel at the end of the takeaway so there must be a considerable amount of forearm rotation involved. Thank you.
Why isn't there more shoulder rotation during the takeaway while taking the club back to parallel? I chronically under rotate my left shoulder. My instructor has me put the butt-end of the club in my chest and practice the takeaway to feel the shoulder turn and maintain a triangle with my arms. Is that too much left shoulder rotation during the takeaway? At the 4:00 minute mark of the video, the virtual golfer has almost no left shoulder turn while the club is parallel. I'm trying to figure out how much shoulder turn to have during my takeaway since I'm struggling with this in my own swing.
Try this... start at address then go to the top of your swing. That amount of turn at the top is your reference. Now divide that in half... that is how much you should have half way back. Now divide that in half... that is how much you should have in the takeaway. That's a handy little reference that is pretty close to the ratios we see in good swings.
Thanks for all the videos. At the end (6:35 to 6:40) where you and the avatar are together on screen showing the club horizontal position: your right elbow is close to your side, but the avatar's right elbow is quite far away (front view). Can you please comment on this quite significant difference? Thanks again
For this golfer to complete his backswing, he is going to have to do a lot of late shoulder rotation near the end of his backswing, which, since he is a pro, I have no doubt he accomplishes. But since most amateurs fail to fully rotate their shoulders by the time they reach the top of their backswing, wouldn't it make more sense for them (I mean us) to start the rotation of the shoulders earlier rather than later, which, I think, would mean starting the takeaway with more of a rotation of the shoulders and less of a swinging of the arms before the shoulder rotation as this pro seems to prefer?
By the way, your approach to explaining the golf swing is the best I have seen and has dramatically helped my own swing, but I don't see how the absence of an early shoulder rotation, as shown here, would work well for most of us.
You can't leave out the effect the difference has on the club. Many golfers don't get good shoulder rotation at the top because they get too much too early and are forced to just lift late trying to get the club in some sort of playable position. Changing this sequence does wonders for both😉
Athletic Motion Golf Ooooh, very interesting, thank you!
Does the tailbone ever move left? It doesn't seem like it with gears, but many instructors still seem to promote the tail bone moving toward the target on the backswing.
The center of the pelvis moves away from the target in the backswing, so maybe in some cases, the actual tailbone might move fractionally closer since it sits behind the center but we don't see it move inches forward.
Great Video. As usual the fantastic detail of the Gears system throws up more questions.For instance, when the overhead view of the video is stopped torso is at zero degrees, the shoulders appear closed. And, in the position of address they appear square when the torso is open. Can you explain why this is so? Does it relate to the setup at address or is there something going on with the shoulders in the takeaway?
More to do with address and how the hands are placed on the club. Once it starts moving, the right arm bends as the club is moving across the body a bit... all contributing to the closing of the shoulders.
Like the right arm aspect. I had no knowledge of this. You keep unlocking more secrets. In terms of the position of address and the grip; Should there be some protraction of the left shoulder in this regard, and maybe some retraction of the right? Can you use the Bones overhead to find out?
Maybe some in there, but I doubt it's something to try to do in that small sequence.
OK, thanks. Great info. Could you tell me - what is the best way to achieve the open torso setup with the apparently square shoulders. Should I open the torso, then square, the shoulders when I take my grip. Or some other procedure?
Stand over a ball and just don't be closed to it at setup... that's about as complicated as it should be 😉
Why would you not finish the swing in the video to show viewers the rest of the swing?
Can you explain the difference in hand path and swing plane
What is it that’s starting the takeaway? Should the feeling be the right shoulder pulling the club back for a right handed golfer or is it the left shoulder working under the chin?
Get the club head moving first😉
Athletic Motion Golf so hands first? I have a problem taking the club outside with my first motion and I’m trying to find a trigger to get the club working more from the inside
@@desean3402 Clubhead first. Make some lead arm only takeaways and pay attention to what you feel. Think more macro than micro.
At minute 6:35, I see Mike's right arm is hanging straight down along the outside of his right leg with the elbow bent. The pro on the other hand has his right arm much less bent and extended considerably further away from his right leg, giving him a wider swing arc. Could you two please comment on this. Thanks. Always watch your videos.
I have so many questions!! Please help.
The club head looks like it goes slightly outside in the first few inches of the swing. Is this normal or is this golfer trying to hit a cut?
Does the wrist angle basically stay the same until about thigh high area?
I’ve seen great improvement ball striking wise by having the thought of locking my wrist at the start of my takeaway to maintain the angle initially or really just keeping them out of the swing as much as possible
Some players do have the clubhead move out slightly at the very beginning. Typically, the wrists are hinging.
Mike regarding the pros being slightly open at address, you said that you don't know how often this is intentional. Does this mean they may not know they are doing this, or that they don't always set up this way? Thanks
Everyone we've seen practices setting up square. But I think because of the hands being a bit forward at setup, the body is a "titch" (new Tiger term I heard the other day lol) open. I don't think anyone is necessarily trying to do it.
How about a checkpoint of how the right arm is higher than the left in the take away and you should try and "feel" that all the way to the top to put you in a great spot and not suck it inside,,thx!!!
Do you think this guy is actively resisting his wrist hinge as that angle goes from 138* to 143* around the midpoint between p1 and p2?
No sir
Tremendous
thanks bud!
Is there a body part or parts that starts the takeaway eg left deltoid, left shoulder socket, chest, hands moving the clubhead? Thanks
Do you have any videos or tips regarding someone whose fault is hands going too far out on the takeaway and club gets in causing steep transitions.
I don't think we do specifically on that, but we can sure add it to the list of ones to do.
Athletic Motion Golf Thank you!!
I would like to know how that 139 degree angle between shaft and left arm at the start is achieved. I mean if you grip the club more diagonal then you need to compensate the angle more with your wrist then when you grip it more perpendicular? Is always a tension in the wrist needed to maintain a minimum amount of angle?
That is his angle, your angle might be different depending on your grip and wrist mobility. We've never tried to get golfers into a specific angle, but do like the butt of the club pointing just north of belt buckle.
I was told to roll my left arm to the right so that the left hand is facing down. Is that wrong?
Yep
If the virtual magnetic pointer is pointing level to the ground at club parallel to the ground on the backswing, that will make for a different amount of forearm rotation depending on the club . That doesn’t make sense. What am I missing?
This video was done with a 7 iron. The motion to get it done with a 7 will be good for the rest of your clubs. It's a visual reference not something to obsess over with each club😉
Does that mean the feet are open at start also along with upper and lower body ?
Feet are typically pretty square.