Is IGN Calling me "Racist" for Loving Resident Evil 5 ?
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- So apparently IGN believes that a RE5 remake can not be done because it is a racist videogame. As a black man on youtube I would like to explains how ridiculous this kind of thing was back in 2009 and why its still ridiculous now.
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You can’t spell Ignorant without IGN. 🤦🏻♂️
Bravo 👏🏻
Thats the new 'mtv is moronic television'
LMFAOOOOO
IGN are corporate fascists. They ban anyone with criticism.
Inane Gaming Nonsense
IGN: "I'm going to find a problem that doesn't exist and then scream for it to be fixed!"
Whats ironic is, the IGN guy said they should remake Code Veronica, a game which had a cross dressing villain. I bet you they would thrn complaim and call it transphobic for demonizing trans people in a post terf world
I want a RE5 remake now. I want Chris to punch a boulder again
That is still an Iconic moment I will always love and they even mentioned it in RE8.
@3TopicsReviewer Saaaaame, I grew up watching my dad play/and playing resident evil, its a classic to this day, re3 (original) being my absolute favorite 😍 (next to re4, re2 and outbreak, honestly I just love them all for different reasons its hard to choose) but I still find that I love the newer ones too, lol and five is sooooo good!!!!
But that moment that heisenberg was messing with Ethan on the battlefield I was freaking out when Chris blew up his factory and he mentioned the Boulder it was just great lmao
I kind of think since they have gone for a more grounded(ish) tone in the remakes, it would be pretty funny if he tries to push the boulder then punches it out of frustration and hurts his hand and then maybe does something more "realistic" like throwing a grenade at it.
I want Chris to punch that boulder with a sign that says "ign" on it.
I hope they gonna add Boulder as playable character in Mercenaries.
A white dude from the UK wrote that stupid article. Nuff said.
Hey. We disown that guy and his stupid article.
Bri'ish?
We do not claim this guy 😅
UK is about the most woke society there is.
As a white guy from the uk, we aint all woke idiots over here 🤣
IGN is a joke and they deserve to be shut down bro
I wouldn't miss it
Also IGN: rates it 9.3/10
Glad you mentioned how Josh is also a playable protagonist. He's the reason why I played countless hours of mercenaries reunion and desperate escape. Josh moves and finisher is straight up WWE it's awesome
Josh and Berry are the best Mercenaries team tbh 💪🏾💪🏻
@@Quillz06 Barry hurricane big man majini is the best melee prompt ever lol
Josh was one of my fav support characters. You have no idea how mad it made me... When they wasted that actor to play Wesker on that god awful Netflix show. When they could've done a good spin-off, and have him as the perfect Josh. Or that Jill Valentine actress on the raccoon city movie. Tell me she was not the perfect Sheva...
I would KILL for Josh, Sheva and Carlos to return one day.
Not to mention his accent.. unlike British-ish Sheva, Josh has that charming African accent
Calling me racist for liking RE5? Goes to show you, even IGN can be right sometimes.
Thanks for sharing thoughts on this, Brian
Resident Evil is my all time favorite video game franchise and I've always thought that Resident Evil 5 was a superb video game.
I never felt that it was a racist video game.
But I do hope that Capcom chooses to remake Resident Evil: Code Veronica, next.
I would've perfered Code Veronica before touching RE4.
@@3TopicsReviewer lmao They already did.
@@jackjax7921 With the over the shoulder angle, because I'm not sure if Darkside Chronicles counts since that's an on rail shooter.
That would be great. The soundtrack is amazing and as I know the game I wouldn't spend hours as Claire trying to find pieces that were meant for Chris later in the game.
I guess I’m racist because I love RE
5 it’s one of my fav games of all time
I guess so...🤣🤣🤣
That's how they are looking at us now unfortunately
Same here
Them haters are just jelly cause they can’t punch a boulder like a boss like Chris lol😂
Josh was one of my fav support characters. You have no idea how mad it made me... When they wasted that actor to play Wesker on that god awful Netflix show. When they could've done a good spin-off, and have him as the perfect Josh. Or that Jill Valentine actress on the raccoon city movie. Tell me she was not the perfect Sheva... Re5 is also in my top fav games of all time, and you have no idea how much I would've loved for them to give a Sheva/Josh backstory spinoff...
I’m glad to see people from all walks of life and backgrounds coming together to dog on IGN for this statement lmao
Me Too. I replied to ign's video that I would never watch another video from them again. I always use to go to them for reviews before I bought a game but never again. I guess I'll find a streamer or something else to get my info from now. I'm just getting so tired of all these people trying to make us feel so miserable to be an American. I love my country and I will fight to the end for it.
It's the closested racism for me. That's the only reason I can think of that would make someone uncomfortable killing an enemy who has a different skin color than them.
Yes, RE itself is a powerful tale about humanity finding the root 🌹 of conflict. You do a good job of explaining that it’s not as surface level as it seems. With enjoying video games and art, we get to process another day and get back to the drawing board with intelligence and creativity. ✌🏻🧟♂️✌🏻
Preaching facts. Just been livestreaming this with a bud. We both love this game. Had a ball last Sat. For 5+ Hours. Excellent Entry.
If their getting mad at black characters being in a game i think they need to re-evaluate who the real racists are
RE5 is a favorite of mine and was my first RE game the only thing that should change in RE5R is to make it Scary and have Jill and Chris kill Wesker at the end or have all three kill him and put it in the beginning of the game you can pick to play as Chris or Sheva
I don't want a remake of RE5 because they'll definitely change one of the best line in the game
Chris: i can't believe wasker is serious about destroying the planet.
Which is the funniest line ever
"Uroboros... will be released into the atmosphere.. ensuring complete. Global. Saturation..."
((Press X or Die))
Do you get all your lines from comic book villains 😂
Nah "Seven minutes"
Try to hear that after seeing the "Wesker had sex?!" video
@@roggie839
I like that part. Wesker's mind is so f*ked up that Chris have to say that - in serious manner.
IGN’s opinions are as relevant as a VHS player
Lol thats a great comparison.
Thank you sir! (Virtual fist bump from a Hispanic who had no issue with people playing RE4 either, great point on that too)
I told my friend that this controversy was a thing and he said “Yeah… it’s almost as if anyone with any skin color can become a zombie… weird.”
Also I’m so glad you mentioned RE4 and RE6 and how nobody bitched about it then
I really hope Capcom doesn’t change this game because of this shit
If being obsessed with RE5 makes someone a racist.
Im a big one.
They have to dig this one up. The alternative is discuss all the stuff with Suicide Squad and Sweet Baby Inc, and that one doesn't help the narrative 😂
Resident Evil 5 is one of the greatest games of all time, and my second favorite RE game behind RE4.
And for their information, RE4 is just as "racist" as RE5
( btw did you reupload this video?? )
Sorry I wanted to re-upload this with some actual clips of the game to improve it and better prove my points.
Oh it's alright.
RE4: White Guy gun down Spaniards
RE5: White Guy guns down African Americans
RE6: White Guy guns down Chinese people
RE5 is a racist game but the other games they’re ok.
Too Bad RE5 is getting Remade/Reimagined because it sold more than Original RE4 so this guy wasted his time.
Those were my exact thoughts on what I thought IGN would say about RE6. I'm surprised there isn't and IGN article discussing that.
@@3TopicsReviewer Apparently, Asians are "White-Adjacent" to people like these. I know because I am Korean, and some people like them legit said this to my face whenever I asked a woman I was discussing the whole RE5 is racist thing with her.
I said that if RE5 is racist, then RE4 and 6 are racist with her logic. But, she said that those are white people dying and Asians are basically white people at this point. I was really surprised to hear that coming from a "Progressive" woman...
I'm Black n I don't see nothing racists about RE5
Apparently, it wasn’t even just IGN. It was also Jacksepticeye.
As a fellow RE fan even since I played RE 4 as my first ever RE game and as a fellow Gamer, I truly FEEL your annoyance and frustration with IGN trying to call us racists for liking to play RE 5. While I personally believe RE 2 Remake is my favorite so far, with RE 4 Remake a close second, I would love to see a remake of RE 5 to see if they can improve the AI functions for story mode to make it not as annoying to deal with my AI partner in game. RE five is a great place to end the story of the one and only ultimate villain of all villains in the RE verse that is Albert Wesker. I admit it sucked to lose him, but this fight was going to have to end sooner or later and I admit they sure made sure Wesker did NOT go down easily.
A shame no one could quite reach his level of influence, planning, combat ability, or presence as a true end game boss enemy that many dread to face. This guy is truly an iconic villain like few others who I compared to those like Darth Vader, Sephiroth, Makima, Esdeath, Yami Marik(Battle City Arc was truly something amazing as a Yu-Gi-Oh! fan), and even Salem from RWBY because all of them left their marks on the stories they was involved in that you couldn't overlook them. They carried a presence that demanded attention, fear, and in some cases respect for their prowess and powers.
Thank you share sharing you thoughts.
While resident evil 5 is likely going to happen, I do agree the AI is number one that Capcom needs to fix. But personally, I feel that code veronica should get a remake since it does fit into the background story of the fifth game.
With that said. What Capcom can do to make resident evil 5 remake better and more entertaining for both fans who like and don’t like action pack( cod like) to traditional horror that the original games did, is to follow the blue print that remake 4 did. I also like re2 remake a lot, but until remake 4 hit, that was my second best. Since remake 1 will always be my favorite remake game lol.
But I do want to add on something to state why remake 2 was replaced. It was mainly because of how the zapping system nor did any of the filler scenarios occurred in the remake; unlike how the original did it
I just find it funny how the guy who did the video was a White British guy telling people what is ok to like.
I know 🙄
well put together my brotha.... glad one of my ppl finally finally made a post and came out the gate wit the killshot points 👉🏿 and yes RE5 is a great goat of a game 🎮 and still is one of the biggest one sold so lets not forget
‘Madea Goes To Raccoon City’ is the only black RE game that IGN would approve of.
Man, these "reaction" videos all hit the algorithm time.
One last thing I didn’t find resident evil 4 racist I am Latino lol 😂
RE5 clearly isn't racist by anyone who played the game, knows the lore, understood the mechanics. IGN is only concerned with RE5 appearing racist at a surface level because that is where they need to defend their medium against others like film and TV. They aren't interested in creating a piece about the deeper story of RE5 and how the creators wanted to show the birthplace of the virus in the birthplace of humanity; Africa. But they are only interested in perpetuating their own shallow world view. IGN are now the enemies of gamers and people who enjoy them.
You sir have no right to be not offended. So as a white guy that has no idea about true black culture, I will be offended for you. I need to get back to figuring out how Panera bread can be more inclusive before I try to cancel them too
IGN isn’t capcom worry what capcom has to say I didn’t know capcom told IGN anything that anyone should have to worry what IGN said
IGN: "Resident Evil 5 is Racist" also IGN: Gives Resident Evil 5 a 9/10
I just want to say thank you for covering this and for mentioning the “co-op” aspects to the game.hands down one of the most fun co-op gaming experiences I ever had was RE5. I too hope the eventual remake doesn’t lose that aspect.
Let's hope the writer of that misinformed and provocative IGN article gets to see your video Brian. The guy seriously needs a Reality Check. 👍
RE5 is fun. Nobody plays RE5 to "kill black people." It's nonsense. Also, if you play the game and pay attention to the story, one of the main characters is black. Many supporting characters who help you along the way are also black.
Lol didn’t think about it this way, they hate on me too D:
They seem to be hating all of us.
I'm with you bro, I just wrnt through RE5 recently and I can safely say it holds up. Of course it's not perfect but no need for a remake. Good take man, keep it up 👍
This reminds me when Max Payne 3 was set on São Paulo, Brazil and some people tried to claim that game has any prejudice BCS showed favelas and crime, like, man it's just a fk game 😂😂
Anyone calling Re5 racist, are beyond human comprehension. If you’re calling re5 racist, then I’m sure they havent played the game nor read the lore of resident evil. Including the events that took shape before RE0.
If you really look at it, it showed how valuable and vulnerable the people were when companies are exploiting their resources for personal gains.
I mean hell. The voice actors for sheva and Josh told them to relax lmao
Are we even surprised anymore that IGN are dummies? I still remember the guy complaining about "they ACTUALLY THROW SPEARS I AM NOT MAKING DAT UP!"
To be honest I know IGN has posted alot of dumb stuff before but I figured that they had enough people working for them to know when its smart not to post a topic that was proven wrong 15 years ago.
Like this guy, I'm black and have RE5 on multiple consoles... IGN IS STUPID. May Capcom ignore stupid people and take my money
As someone from Africa I can definitely say that no African person would find RE5 recist or offensive... Its been there for years, only suddenly now it's a problem for the "woke America"???
This game is special to me. Me and my brother would play co-op and beat it multiple times. So much good memories.
I kinda want them to remake 5, I absolutely loved it but after playing RE4 remake it feels very clunky.
That’s because you’re not good at the game.
Yeah man that's crazy I thought we are already past that bull crap.
RE5 remake is definitely on my must buy list
I can never stand for IGN.
I am surprised that to my knowledge RE4 wasn't called sexist, back in the days, because how Leon talked to/about women.
And then RE5 came with a badass female character Sheva ❤ and they called it racist smh
Those where my thoughts. I'm thinking where are all the feminist rioting saying that RE4 shows violence against women.
It's a totally dumb game.. If they're gonna remake it, they need to take out the dumbness..
Remake Code Veronica. That's a thing that really should happen.
well they cut out the dumbness from the goofy original re4 too so same will probably happen with 5. I can imagine they keep the boulder scene tho because it is mentioned in re village and it's just too iconic to completly remove it
The dumbness of RE5 is what makes it so good. Please don’t ever be in charge of making video games lol
7:30 it blows my mind that other people especially complete strangers care so much about what other people do or do not play. Personally Re4 Remake is my favorite Resident Evil with Re1 remake a very close second. But I totally respect your take and it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game whatsoever.
IGN gave a biased opinion, coming from a white guy who has no right to speak for the black people of Africa and I do hope Capcom ignores him completely
Exactly did nobody think about this before posting such things. You would think that they have an entire team and that it would have to pass multiple people and for not to pause and say "Hey perhaps we shouldn't post this" is just crazy.
People did complain about RE4 calling it racist. But RE5 took the main focus after taking place in Africa, and mostly everyone forgot about that moronic controversy to move on to the new one.
IGN is racist for saying it’s okay to kill every race of Zombies in the world but Black Zombies.
They didn’t say anything about Leon being racist for killing a bunch of Spain and Asian Zombies.
I know right it seems who that guy was is quite selective with his racial views on what's offensive and what's not.
This dude wrote that people in RE5, of course, infected by OUROBOROS VIRUS, but it's not excuse.
So 100% article author DIDN'T played RE5, or played only introduction. Because otherwise he would knew they are infected by Las Plagas. And that why city depicted unsanitary and disease ridden. Because it's exactly what Las Plagas did to people in RE4, it's made them into demented drones.
the setting is in AFRICA....what should we face it there? Asian people????? the writer never play resident evil period!! the opening explains.
Well you are shooting nothing but Chinese zombies in the later missions of Leon's campaign in RE6 and since Capcom is a Japanese developer I'm surprised IGN hasn't come out and said that RE6 is racist against Chinese people playing a white guy shooting Chinese zombies.
@@3TopicsReviewer that IGN writer never play any RE games, just watch tools assisted gameplay or trainer user gameplay....
My only problem with re5 is that you can't move while shooting
your shirt is killer
Thank you I have an entire collection of rare PlayStation shirts that I wear in the major of my videos.
I don’t know what’s a dumber take from IGN… RE5 or Days gone 🤦🏻♂️🙄🤡
I LOVE Days Gone, it's a shame that we may never get the sequel it deserves 😔
@@3TopicsReviewer same here, I had a blast with that game
They really dug up the most milktoast braindead critique of all time, truly IGNorant
Just started replaying on my switch, took me back to playing on Xbox live with my cousin.
Remaking RE5 is gonna be a LOT easier than remaking RE6 lol.
I'm just curious how far are these remakes going to go. How long will it be til they start remaking resident evils 7 and 8.
@@3TopicsReviewer - Id say we’ve got a big road ahead for more remakes in the coming years, so long as they keep making money. I predict we’ll see RE5, RE6, Code Veronica, and possibly Revelations
@@joshemfinger Your probably right if they know it will make them money they will go for it. Its just a same that these developers are so focused on trying to remake the past that they don't put enough effort into building up the franchises future.
@@3TopicsReviewer - well they did make Village while RE2 remake was going on so I’m glad they were still making new stuff. I’m very curious where they go now though for new installments now that the Winters story is over with.
@@joshemfinger That a good point but as these games get more and more advance and these development periods get longer and longer. One has to wonder just how do they balance their development team amongst different projects.
As another black guy, I wasn't offended either, the game was fun. More fun than RE4 imo. It's just the story and where it goes. I do wish Sheva and Billy got more love in the series.
I know its an absolute crime how you can have Sheva as a combatant be on par if not outclass Chris in a number of departments and be 50% of the team that took down the big threat of the franchise in the form of Wesker and yet never be mentioned again in the franchise after 15 years.
@@3TopicsReviewer Yeah, I'm kind of getting tired of the core characters, just give Jill one more spot light after the events in 5, and I'll be happy.
@@eXistenZ1864 Its crazy too that when it come to Jill apart from the RE3 she too had been forgotten about until the recent CGI resident evil movie.
@@3TopicsReviewer I never saw that movie, lol.
I could agree with you vice versa of the remakes for the fact I never played the original nemesis so the remake worked for me. I never played the original resident evil 4 so the remake worked for me. I think the remakes are really for people that either missed out on the originals or people who played the originals & R looking for nuance.
When i saw that video that dude said "RACISM" like he won over the crowd when all he was about to feel the power of 2009 gamers, and re fans like bro ign needs to just go out of business how are they still open i swear.
The game is screaming "Partnership" which is the opposite of Racism.
The civilians in RE 5 are not only Black African, but also Arabic, East--Asian, and Caucasian / European. Some people can't tell because of the color tone / dusty filter of the game.
Btw, Kijuju (finctional place) probably based on Kenya.
Sheva is of course a protagonist. We can even play the entire game as her. Josh is also African.
Again, this is just a game, and moral values are there. With all of that, this game should be fine.
Thats an awesome thought that not too many people bring up.
I love Resident Evil 5. I'll never understand this new generation being offended by everything.
say it louder for the people in the back!!! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
IGN be like "YOU MUST BE OFFENDED"
I won't be offended by something that was never offensive to begin with.
What about Dying light? A zombie game set in the middle east? IGN Never complained about that one. Thank you for also calling these "gaming journalists" out on their BS.
I really enjoyed resident evil 5 really enjoyed the CO op as will. And the unlockables
RE4 remake is a masterpiece I have both original and remake as equal games I’ve been playing re4 since it came out
Thank you for calling them out. I don't think anyone worried about all those white zombies getting killed in the previous games.
Thank you for watching.
Its not something i even considered at the time. I love Sheva, cant wait for them to remake this game and have it ascend to top tier coop
Nope, we were not past this 15 years ago, cause Capcom hired a team to oversee their future projects and make sure they wouldn't "trigger" anyone again, so the bad guys won before the game even came out.
And thank you for acknowledging that Chris AI is worse then Sheva AI
I know I'm like the only one who feels that the AI for Chris was WAY worst. I can play thru the entire game solo with the Sheva AI and get thru the game pretty easily and in few situation in my experience the AI was actually more useful than playing with another player. But I can't stand playing with AI Chris.
@@3TopicsReviewer Yup for me it's like they forgot to tell Chris AI to stay the hell outta the line of sight and stop taking the lead.
Being a brainwashed activist with zero knowledge of a particular game is a very dangerous combination!
This is the RE game that I introduced to my wifey and she LOVED IT! We finished it like 5 times already and still she wants more. Also, the enemies aren't just black. I noticed some white and asian people in there but the majority is black since they're in this fictional Africa. That game journalist just wants some publicity even though it's bad publicity. RE5 REMAKE LETS GO!!!!
Forgot to say that the main enemy is Wesker which is a white guy and then he infected this fictional Africa meaning that they are just victims and not the perpatrator of this horrible event. If anything, this white guy Chris is just helping to stop Wesker in his plans in spreading this virus. He even has Sheva as his partner which is also BLACK in helping her townpeople! Nothing racist about this game.
The only issues with RE5 are the kinds of things that a remaster could really improve on. These “journalists” are just trying to virtue signal for views. Really pathetic stuff.
I remember the lead up to the release of RE5. The issue was the game reveal trailer, rather than the game itself. A black gaming journalist/blogger received a lot of backlash for pointing out that the trailer was problematic (He didn't accuse the game of being intentionally racist) but "intentional or not", the imagery in the trailer played into negative stereotypes of Africa of primitive savagery & disease that had been propagated for ages by western colonial powers (i.e. white supremacists). So yes, the imagery at face value appeared to be a lone, muscled up gigachad white dude (Sheva hadn't been introduced yet) mowing down hordes of third world African savages made some people uncomfortable. Spain never had to deal with these types of marginalizing stereotypes so "What about RE4" was a popular but still bad rebuttal, even back then. The good thing though was once the game actually came out it was widely well received, with most of the problematic elements of the trailer significantly scaled back in final game, giving us a more balanced and nuanced depiction of the outbreak & the heroes fighting it. My guess is that if someone is currently saying the game itself was racist, they probably never played it.
This I a major point of this that a lot of people are missing
Resident Evil 5 is NOT racist!
In fact, it would be much more racist if Africa was EXCLUDED from the franchise. Because here’s the thing, zombies are Haitian and West African culture. So it only makes sense a zombie virus has its origins in Africa.
Capcom deserves a lot of applause for giving zombie culture a real shout out with that bit of lore.
Take it from a proud black American. RE5 is nowhere near racist.
All this hate for RE5 is just making me want to play the game again!
That'd exactly what I did.
Who let them pass that😭
With all these remakes steadily coming out what's stopping them from releasing the original resident evil trilogy for modern consoles? Is there a reason they can't remaster them or are they just not willing to?
nah. the remakes save for 3 are honestly better than the old games. 1make is just 10/10, 2 is a 9/10, 3 is a 6/10, 4make is a 10/10. we need code veronica or zero remade if anything
I'm pretty sure that IGN bringing this back up is the same reason this controversy exists in the first place. Click bait.
At that time the sjw stuff was really dumb and out of control
Once a hack, always a hack IGN is.
And they are suppose to be the standard for game journalism.
@@3TopicsReviewer Huh, my ass!
Hey, Brian! I'm a black man myself like you, and I also agree that this discourse about liking Resident Evil 5 making you racist to be stupid. Like, who fucking cares?
In a fucked I’m way it would be kind of racist not to have a black zombie
True that men, this is a great video game but I have mine own problems why I don’t want the video game to be remake but to be honest my own problems are mine own problems and I understand those problems of mine are not to amazing just to not remake the game but In conclusion this video game can be remake and it does not have a problem at all
Thank you for watching and commenting.
Sooo by IGN's logic, if I say that GTA San Andreas is one of my favorite games of all time, and CJ is the best GTA protagonist ever. In IGN's eye, I'm a racist because how San Andreas depict black people? 😂
7:40 Hey look they put Jill on the cover of the game and not Sheva, yeah they sure are racists🤡
Resident Evil 5 is one of the best RE games, of course we love it!
Calling that racist is just ass. Whoever actually thinks that must have a brick for a brain.
Or they don't have a brain at all.
@3TopicsReviewer Yup. Having said that, I don't believe RE5 needs a remake. 4 Remake (as fun as I found it), was already unnecessary. If Capcom remakes 5, they're just asking to be known as a cash grabber franchise.
You know I thought we was over this years ago as well
I guess not.
Re5 is capcom best seller when it first came out
I'm with you bro I love Re5 so much it's one of my favorite games ever, the game is not even racist and im so with you on that it's just a game and the whole point it is set in Africa so of course there will be black people 😂, but yeah im with you on this I love this game to death and I love chris redfield and this gave made me love him even more 👍, this will always be one of my favorite re games and games of all time I love it and its not racist and i hope the remake does happen with the same plot story and doesn't change and it's even better than the og
If anything it's the exact opposite of racist with the fact that they cared to go all the way to Africa and have a couple of good black characters alongside Chris. It could have easily just been another fictional American city or something with another 2 white characters. Even arguments of sexism I have seen before. The vast majority of resident evil games have 2 separate campaigns with a male and female character as the main. Going back to re3 and code Veronica you even primarily play as women. It's even a good example of that female representation because it has nothing to do with the toxic side of shoving that down people's throats they are all fantastic female characters.
Those were exactly my thoughts you have two awesome black characters that are well developed able to stand side by side with two of the most iconic characters in Resident Evil with Sheeva saving Chris multiple times and Josh showing the proper respect to Jill even going so far as to call her a legend. The only sad part is that these two characters have not appeared since.