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Yea because Emil Pagliarulo is the worst writer in, probably, the entire gaming history ever. And he doesn't even want to improve his writing and game design ways, he thinks what he's doing is great. That's why none of the Bethesda games had any decent quests or storytelling.
@@stevendeamon I mean... dude. He's real bad, but he doesn't write the whole game alone, you know? It's unfair to blame just him alone, blame the whole team responsible.
@@BIGESTblade Im going to blame it on him alone and there's nothing you can do about it. He asks for 70-100 euros for his 1st grade writing skills. Stop simping for that failed "writer". Also, you can't just wish some to go "a-way". Cancel culture is not a real thing lol.
The only thing that exemplifies is the fact that most of you are lazy and expect everything to be served on a plate. If you tell me you played fallout and didn't know she is a lawyer...I don't even believe you went past the intro. The lore of Fallout 4 is significantly bigger than Cyperpunk. It's up to the player to look for it or not.
@@OBEYTHEPYRAMIDIt’s literally one single item in the intro which requires you to notice a prompt. With Nate there’s a lot that shows and tells that he’s military. With Nora you find out with a single diploma by the front door. Did you know that the neighbors are Ghouls too? It’s mentioned indirectly by Codsworth but a random encounter involves you killing a bunch of named ghouls wandering the map…those are your ghoulified neighbors. So much cut content and stuff that is mentioned in passing.
The reason is that V actually has conversations with people, where the Sole Survivor just says different phrases that all translate to them saying “Yes” in different flavors. CDPR actually wrote good stuff.
@@MedalWelder its more than that... In cyberpunk you actually make choices, and sometimes they aren't even verbal ones .. Like in the time when you have to decide to save Takemura or let him die... If you just listen to Johnny, Takemura dies, but if you defy his suggestion you can save Takemura... You don't need to say NO to Johnny, you don't need to say anything at all, all you have to do is choose wich action you will take... This is how clever C77 is, you interact with the game, characters and the world in more ways than simple dialogue choices.
Exactly. CP2077 gives the player enough agency that everyone's V is slightly different and personal to them, but we're all the same badass merc at the end of the day.
@@ThrowAway-ji1cfWell for the sole survivor time hasn't passed. The partner has been dead for 60+ years yes but for the sole survivor it hasn't been more than a few hours since the bombs dropped
@@ThrowAway-ji1cf that literally like your wife dying and in 2 to 3hrs going to the next house just to confess having feelings for her since your wife death 2hr prior... Unless he was cheating before her death.. huh maybr
Great way to put it. Fallout 4 made me feel so against having a voice protagonist in a first person western RPG because it made me feel like I wasn’t playing as my own character. But when I played Cyberpunk, somehow V was fully voiced and had their own story, yet I felt simultaneously interested in them, and as if I was them. CDPR somehow accomplished both at once
@@Bread_Bug YES! When I played Cyberpunk I got fully immersed in V persona. The way they Deliver dialogue to convey emotion, every random side quest You can actually make decisions on what you think would make sense to do, And it actually effects the world!
The fact the prolouge was so long in Cyberpunk made me really attached to Jackie, and then we watched him die and i actually cried a little bit. I never cried during Fallout 4s emotional scenes.
@@The_world_is_not_worthy_of_Himsarcasm technically is an emotional response. Not a good one, and definitely not handled well, but using the literal definition of emotional? Fallout 4 "has" them
Well, that is because in Cyberpunk you have two characters having a conversation. In Fallout, you have a blank canvas responding to NPCs. It's impossible to write a conversation for the Sole Survior because you are the one who defines their character.
Never played Fallout but I find it funny cause the girl is opening up her past traumas with long dialogues and your character just sits there and replies with 1 sentence 🤣
@@monelmonelmonel before fallout 4, hell even some of fallout 3's (so Bethesda CAN do this) things like Cait's follower questline were broken up a LOT more with some longer prompts from the player. Granted most of those were SKILL check dialogues and they got rid of all of those in fallout 4
Its more fun when you try to play your V like youre actually Johnny, silently influencing V's conversation nuances and shows how he starts to influence everything as the chip issue progresses. They kinda do this with the cigarette option which is fun.
This is even more cool when you realize Johnny is ALSO being influenced by V's personality and is becoming much nicer and understandable near the end of the game.
Or the chip has nothing to do with personality change and it's just the fact that the both of them are stuck together completely like from start to finish, so I think that would definitely start changing your personality.
fallout 4 has absolutely NO consequences. I played a raider character in nuka world, came back and told garvey to cry about it, and he was just like "well I don't like that but I'll still work for you" even though I'm straight up murdering all the settlements he sends me to in order to make room for gangs. in cyberpunk you can just lose panam and get Saul killed by putting off their rescue mission, and get river killed by ditching him
I do think it's worth noting that V's timelimit is very soft - it's there, but no one knows how long it is. The sidequests then do offer a couple of things: First off, V needs resources for whatever cure they search for, and getting paid for the sidequests is their way to do that. Secondly, they still need to survive in Night City.
Do you read shadowrun novels? There is one (takes place in Austria) where one of the side charakters has a terminal disease, which can be cured but he is broke and needs the money to get the treatment. He takes part in the job that is the center of the story, which would net him almost as much as he needs, but sneaks away at every opportunity to do little odd jobs in order to get the rest of what he needs. Fun read and put me in the mood in my first play through of CP2077. I basically made up my own timelimit.
@@beefboy9979 in my second playthrough, I paid back Vic right when he asked. Knowing about it, I made sure I had the money to do so before getting to him.
@@beefboy9979 First playthrough the first thing i did was complete sidemission till i had the money to pay him back just tot get a : " why are you paying me you idiot use your money better" so that was the last playthrough where i payed him
Talking to panam feels like talking to someone real. Heck, all of Cyberpunk 2077 npc looks and talks like a real person. Not to mention the generic npc passing by, looking at V with a naughty look.
With Cait, you get a feeling that a door is closing and that she's about to become a generic NPC. With Panam, you know the best is yet to come- especially when you get to The Star.
Here's why V works and why the Sole Survivor doesn't: V has agency. The Sole Survivor has the unfortunate fate of being a Bethesda game protagonist, so agency is an illusion.
The whole fucking point of cyberpunk is v’s lack of agency huh? They have a death sentence, then they’re at the whims of the world around them, the only agency owned is through the human connections they make with those around them, and their ability to effectively kill or do jobs.
I don't think blank slates have to be you, they can be any character you want to put on them. Like the table tops, you could make a character like you, or unlike you.
This is almost always what I do. I like creating unique characters that I sometimes give more backstory than just a personality. Makes it so I don't always just choose the best options in games I replay. Also I get to try out new weapons or skills. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Good method if you're bored.
Me playing as Japanese woman in Cyberpunk who is bilingual who has some connection to the Tyger Claws and was an Arasaka corpo vs Fallout where I play as a white U.S veteran who speaks only English who looks for his son. Sure, Cyberpunk is abit modded so my V speaks both Japanese and English, but it's still plausible even without mods, just not bilingual
@saber2802 The multilingual mod is so fucking good man. I really underestimated how much the different languages would add to the atmosphere in Night City until I tried it. Absolute must have.
@@saber2802 your V being made the way you are playing vs either playing as nate or nora with established story that makes no sense with events of the game
I think one of the big reasons Cyberpunk works so well is not only how well the conversations are written and how you can approach them very differently, but also how they are staged. Going from one location to another while talking, leaning against something, sitting down or getting up at certain parts, being able to drink, being able to pace anxiously or turn away from the conversations and look at the scenery. It really makes you feel like your V's emotions are unique and real and you are not experiencing the same conversation every other player has had. That's also why the romance options work so well. You feel like the first kiss, or sitting around the campfire with Panam and putting your arm around her is actually a big step and getting to know her feels natural, because you are part of the conversation, instead of just picking the option that you would like your character to romance this other NPC character. That with seeing my outfit, having my stats influence the conversations and having side missions make sense, because you need the connections and resources and can't just go after the cure all the time makes this game so immersive. Way more than any other open world, but also way more than any narrative game imo.
Nothing sells the awkward attempts at charisma like taking a long drink between each statement you make the first time you try and flirt with Panam at the bar.
There was a thread on twitter that made a similar point too, because Cyberpunk is fixed first person, the player is essentially a camera, and they use that to visually convey things. In the case of the romance options, they use physical proximity to illustrate the growing closeness. If you watch the Panam and Judy questlines in full, you can notice how far away they start in cutscenes, but as you progress with them Panam will kick her feet on your lap, or you’ll have a heart to heart sitting next to Judy in the bathtub. It’s using intentional cinematography and framing within the video game medium to tell the story, rather than the infamous Bethesda Camera.
God damn, I only just realized how much thought the writers put into that first optional dialogue when you romance Panam. Her struggle is always between family and keeping herself emotionally invulnerable. At this point in the story you are part of her family but she has also developed feelings for you, so when you tell her what is going on, her first reaction is to tell you that you are family and nothing can tear you apart, but she realizes, that that would also make her vulnerable so she interrupts herself to restart the sentence in a more „matter of fact“ way. Clearly still offering help, but also scared of emotional commitment.
CDPR is the epitome of what a dev company should be. They understood their blunders and worked hard to make sure that the consumer experienced the vision that they saw. Even after everyone had moved on and forgot their game, they weren't done. They went from a laughing stock to nominee for game of the year... 4 years after launch. True passion and dedication. We need more CDPR in every company.
They had already made the most awarded and most acclaimed game ever in TW3 so their work ethic and dedication was there for a decade before this. I really agree that they are the best devs of all time.
In real life, if you're a thinking, feeling human being, you can lose that special someone, then reach a point where you're lonely, find someone else and honestly won't be happier with another person. But that doesn't negate how you were happy with the previous partner. I lost the love of my life after 26 years. I'm at the lonely stage now. I just haven't found the next person yet.
To me, I believe it's due to the fact of how they're written. V is, while a vehicle for the player yes, is still shown to have their own character outside of what you, the player, input. Whereas Nate or Nora, while there is a bit of that, is still a blank slate
in that vein I really like the subtle differences between persona protagonists, they betray their actual character independent of you, the player. hell, they have different ways to respond to the exact same situation, which is great
upon finishing part of the "queen of the highway" quest where Saul speaks with Panam, i genuinely paused the game and said to myself "how the fuck did they make this so immersive its insane. i feel like im watching 2 real people which have become my friends talk" and thats the moment i realized cyberpunk 2077 is the most immersive game i've ever played. kudos to CDPR and im glad this game got the redemption, im not sure we will ever see anything like this again.
@@Big01021I found it boring af for the first few hours, then I started to like it, then I took a break for a few weeks which game me a moment of clarity that the game was not worth revisiting. Such a shallow and unimaginative experience.
In Fallout 4 I said "I hate sinths" to the railroad and they still asked me to join. Meeting the railroad is technically part of the main quest. In Cyberpunk, you have to save a doctor which refuses to go because she has a patient on the surgical table (hippocrates oats). You can help stabilize the patient or you can fail in saving him, resulting in different dialogues. Or you can do what I did and shoot a satara in the patient head killing him instantly, which still results in a third secret dialogue with the doctor. This was a gig. For those who don't know what a gig is: it's more secondary than a secondary mission. It was quite literally "save the VIP and get the money" and it still had more drama than Fallout 4 main quest. It's not the first time I posted this comment about Fallout 4 (on anothet video). This is how much the Fallout 4 scene angered me.
The gigs in 2077 have so much flavor - it's insane. I remember on my 2nd playthrough I found that gig for the first time, my headcanon for V was as an ex-Trauma Team member. Make the whole taking lives/saving them decisions have more weight given that character background. I usually play a medic-type character in Fallout, so why not? So imagine *muh immersion* when I'm presented with an actual moral choice -- do you save this Malestromer, or let him croak? Finish the job yourself? Sure, you're a doc, but you also know what kind of jobs Maelstrom pulls... a certain unsavory father-son BD editor duo definitely comes to mind... Then there's... Fallout 4.
Damn, I didn't even realize what gigs were when I first played cp2077. There are two things below that level - assaults and shootouts. And even those have some kind of story in them. Usually you find some conversation transcripts there or notes. Hell, I'm almost sure that depending on how you obtain the robot for the end of prologue, you may or may not ever see Maelstrom blocking roads in half of the district where you begin the game.
Actually you don't need the railroad to decode the chip there's a computer in the railroad HQ that shows you how to decode it. But doing that will make the railroad hostile because the computer is marked red.
V embodies something primal in all of us. This desire to be all we can be and not take shit from anyone. Sole Survivor feels like a glorified errand boy who puts his/her own interests on hold whenever someone asks him/her to, just to obey the next command. Even when V does a quest that comes as someone else's request, the game makes it feel like those people owe V a favor and payment. Like they were “honored” to work with V. And when you play a game where your character takes out hundreds of enemies and accomplishes inhuman feats only made possible by the fact that if he dies, the world reloads to a save right before. Then it's only natural that the people in that character's life are in awe with him. And that's V. His reputation precedes him, and it's apparent throughout the story: going from being a nobody to getting to the major leagues of merc life. Sole survivor can literally change the political landscape of the entire world he lives in, and become the most powerful leader of the last standing faction. People will still treat them as a nobody who isn't owed any shred of respect. (except the few faction members who are programmed to react differently)
The time limit in cyberpunk could have been solved if they had made it vague. Like if Victor said "V, all I know is, it's going to kill you whether that's in six months or six years, I don't know." That gives the player enough space so that they aren't wondering why V would do some random fixer quest with what seems like only a couple of weeks to live.
It was originally supposed to have a bigger impact on the gameplay. Though I agree with you, when it failed they should have changed it but I think they didn't cause they ran out of time. Ironically.
Actually it does. a great example of this is when you look in the mirror, you'll see Johnny instead of V, or he'll be sitting on your car when driving, depending on how far you're into the story Although I do admit I wish it was a little more shown, they originally had more of a concept of this but we all know what happened with them running out of time @JonR_1138
they never specially tell you how long you have to live but i do agree but also shes looking for cure or fix to her problems and it wouldn't make sense if she just had the resources and money to get those things
yeah I was trying to get the solo ending and accidentally deleted myself 😅 that shit was so sad I put down my controller and watched my reflection on the TV for a good 15 minutes
I don't think I have the heart to do the suicide ending. All the romantic partners have their own reason for relying on V, so imagining them being so sad about it is already heartbreaking.
@@RudolfKlusal Valerie + suicide ending =Judy wrecking my soul... Good piece for folks thinking to end themselves, it definitely put some weight on the choice...
Regardless of reason Bethesda apologists will stand by the notion of “Cyberpunk Bad” solely because of the launch, completely ignoring anything that happened after that.
Meanwhile, Cyberbunk apologists will cry how it's totally fine now, despite the fact that it's still a god awful game that plays terrible and has a worse story with yet worse characters.
@@DWN-023 CDPR fans when you question thier stupidity and bad memory. Bad launch, lies about product, prohibits conternt creators using last gen footage, gets a lawsuit in their home country, lied to their investors, Sony of all companies decided to give back money on the game, the game had a whole anime to boost back its popularity, and a whole overhaul. On top of that there are still missing features in the game till this day. Man CDPR fans love deep rich stories of the issues in our wolrd and capitalism to only ignore the same message from the company that sold them a $70 product. Lmfao
@@TheRealSpicySucc Bethesda fans showing their hypocrisy Fallout had a whole show to boos their popularity, a mobile game cashgrab, a disastrous multiplayer game in FO76, meh at best DLCs for 4, updates that completely bricked a large portion of mods and delayed a highly anticipated total conversion mod (and even if you didn't mod the game, the update still had it's own issues) and has the exact same themes of greedy corporations wanting to get rich and control the world. This company is selling 2 games from 1998 for 10 bucks each and 60 bucks for a VR port of a game that only costs 20 (40 bucks for the GOTY edition with all the DLC, 3 packs of which are cosmetic add-ons for the basebuilding part of the game) Who's the greedy company again???
I think the cait conversation perfectly illustrates the problem with Fo4 when it tries to be serious, everyone just says their feelings like they're reading a literary analysis of their own character. Real people are rarely ever so self aware or willing to be so upfront. When dealing with tough subjects and complicated feelings, even the most blunt of people like cait will tend to talk around the subject, not matter of factly say "yeah I tried to eat my own shotgun a few times"
I think it’d be funny if there was a game like with very nuanced characters like that, then a Bethesda character shows up, and does that explaining their own character stuff, then you get the option to just say “that was pretty fucking blunt”
I think stakes matter too. Dexter Deshaun asks if you wanna die young, at the top of the world or as an old nobody. Pretty obvious choice, right? But then the game makes you LIVE that choice. The longer you play the game, the more V amasses, the more power she obtains, the stronger her relationships, etc. But the clock is still ticking. The voice acting escalates to match the stakes; all set against an amazing city. Once you thaw in FO4, you just blank slate across the wasteland, and the world is supposed to be enough. And its really not....
V fucking off to do all the side content makes sense as V still wanting to live what time they have left to the fullest, making sure they got as few loose ends before any sort of point of no return
This is why the internet is also a bad things sometimes. People who absolutely no idea what they're talking about on a subject speaking as experts or well educated on a subject
My favourite little detail that makes cyberpunk so much better than any Bethesda game is that so many dialogues make you sit, lean, or drink something while you talk. It makes the interactions so much more believable when you chill with a friendly character in a café sipping coffee every other dialogue option, or talk around the table eating something or allows you to look upon a panorama of night city while you talk. I didn't realise how big of a difference that would make before, but yeah, that's how talking works. It also allows the creators to use set point of view coused by this to give every damn dialogue perfect animations where NPC don't talk to where you stood or awkwardly swivel their head around. But that's much more effort
CP 2077 made us all realize that 2 characters awkwardly standing around weirdly waving their hands while exchanging lines of dialogue is the most staging 95% of game studios will ever be able to put in their game.
I have this same thought about the phones in CP2077. That was one reason I didn’t like starfield, you have to backtrack all the way back to the quest giver to turn in a quest, and you’re back tracking in your state of the art hyper drive ship… that doesn’t have a fucking phone to call and say “missions done what next?” Hell in 2077 every gig starts with a phone call and another to end the gig where you get told great job or try harder next time. It’s one of the simplest things and makes the game EASIER TO MAKE because you don’t have to model the character saying those voice lines just have them recorded. But Bethesda is so lazy they couldn’t do that much. I can’t get immersed in a future where every important message is delivered via runner and the strip club has fully dressed alien suits. So shit
@@garbearfar1394 Not to mention at the one point V runs into a landline phone, they have no idea what to DO with a handset. Ironically, this was shortly after the two times I'd had conversations with people, explaining why most people born after 2005-ish have no idea what 'hand to side of head, pinkie and thumb extended' means 'telephone', and instead the more recognizable gesture is 'hand open, held flat, touch to side of head' because cellular phones are flat. I got a good chuckle out of V holding the phone like 'what is banana?' going 'uuuuuhhh?'
This. This is similar to well written dialogue scenes in film and anime, where people sit and converse while eating or drinking; it gives a passage of time and more natural framing, rather than simple shot/counter-shot framing and shoe-horning in plot important exposition.
When i load up Cyberpunk and get going as V, it feels like a surrogate, like an extension to my mind and soul. I kept finding out stuff about my actual self through the choices i had to make in the game. A lot of them were raising questions which never would've crossed my mind, putting me in an actual dilemma. Like the final choice at the Phantom Liberty expansion. V isn't simply a vesel, but an extension to any player's soul and mind. It's dune masterfully and that's why i still can't stop playing this game.
I'm loving the well deserved comeback that Cyberpunk 2077 is enjoying, every video, article, or comment has turned from extreme negativity at release, to complete and utter adoration. Hopefully, CDPR have learned from this experience, and can knock it outta the park with their upcoming projects.
@@mryellow6918 complete lie is an exaggeration, it'll never be as ambitious as it was promised but those promises were considered ambitious for many reasons. I'd rather an enjoyable decent game that couldn't fulfill its own promises than one riddled with bugs, at least the other is playable
Finally bought Cyberpunk when the DLC dropped, and was blown away. I'm on my 3rd playthrough, and still finding new stuff and new ways to play differently, enjoying it like it was new.
I think what also helps is a compelling player narrative. V actually has consistently good line delivery and doesn't snapshot between emotions. They feel like a living person who is going through the process of having their personality overwritten and dying slowly Unlike the sole survivor who can go from taking every psychoactive known to the wasteland before eating the corpses of their enemies who becomes a blubbering mess whenever their son is mentioned regardless of your options you've chosen
@@tedtheodore5715 I dunno why you're still on this 'Cyberpunk 2077 is a shitty, glitchy ahh game!!' when the game is long since launch right now. I encountered few issues at launch, and never again since then.
I had definiatelly more bugs in Fallout 4 than Cyberpunk over all my playthroughs. Cyberpunk never crashed on me. Fallout 4 liked to crash to desktop from time to time, usually after I just spend 4+ h in settlement building.
A game that I always believed did the "Two different main characters" idea well was Dishonored 2. Different personalities, different skills better for certain playstyles, and in the end you get to see the other character, so they're never 'abandoned'. Maybe not perfect, but better. Maybe because Dishonored is a different type of game at the end of the day, but I think it's still worth giving credit in this factor.
the biggest misconception is "your RPG character is YOU" when in reality its "your RPG character is WHO you want them to be" i have only once in my entire life made "myself" in a game every other game has been on of my ...and i hate using this word OC's such as Millianna Nanoxus Alezecktris Deamonakis VonVeil, daughter of Azi and heir to hosue VonVeil
@@BrokenGodEnt and you know what? thats fine, im not hating on people who DO play themselves in RPG's. but most people dont, and even i have trouble making my character dos some things, but like i said I have only ever once made myself in a game
There's also the fact the CDPR are good at building worlds that feel lived in. You can totally imagine these characters having a life outside of the times V interacts with them, and a lot of their decisions and interactions with you stem from their lives in this world of Night City
All the side quests and dates and roaming around night city in CP77 I thought made sense for my V. She is facing death, but she wants to go down in history as a legend before she goes. To "never fade away". All the side activites are her living life to the fullest with love, action, friendship, etc.
I've been playing through Cyberpunk recently and for me the biggest difference that helps me with it is that in the Journal, after you get Jonny, the quest descriptions change to refer to you as the player as if it's him talking to V, but of course it's directed at you. Also, V has far more dialogue to the point he's easily on par with other NPCs and feels like he's having a genuine conversation and being part of events rather than just chipping in with the occasional one liner
Even then he didnt do a good job of it, Nates been retired for probably one, possibly multiple years by the time of F4 and was a paratrooper in the sino front... The War-Criminal Stuff was a broadcast, the day the bombs fell, of power-armour wielders, during the canada operation. Emils such a hack of a writer that not only did he get a paratrooper and a power-armour wearer mixed up, But he also managed to in the same tweet, Mix up Fronts on different Continents and the fact that the character he was talking about, was retired and no longer in active service. During a broadcast, set on the final day before the bombs fell, Dude cant even write a tweet without getting basic details about a franchise he's meant to be a lead writer on wrong. No wonder every Bethesda fallout is "Nondescript wasteland with barely any survivors" The man can barely get the story of the MC straight, Let alone NPCs with "Motivations" and "Character"
I'm not going to comment on his writing ability for a finished product, but the thing you're referring to was a poorly thought out shitpost on social media. It's got no bearing on the lore of the fallout series outside of "wouldn't it be funny if?". He didn't canonically "make" Nate a war criminal not only because it contradicts the actual opening to F4, but he's also not the Pope of Fallout and he wasn't writing in an official capacity.
@@sieda666In any other circumstance I would agree with you, however Emil has made countless blunders like this throughout his career and is a HUGE fan of misrepresenting timelines There are perhaps hundreds of examples of Emil's poor worldbuilding management, calling his tweet a 'shitpost' implies he's got the ability to be ironic
Yeah, Emil said that he draws from his own experiences while writing but he never experienced anything in life. So no surprise that everything he writes feels so generic and bland.
CDPR actually wanted to tell a story and make a game, Bethesda is just a passionless retirement plan for Todd and his buddies. If you think they care about the games they make then I have a bridge to sell you.
@@nagger8216I mean it’s a pretty big assumption 0 passion went into FO4. It’s definitely no game of the year and not the biggest passion project ever but to say that Bethesda didn’t care would be doing a disservice to the work they tried to accomplish.
Playing Cyberpunk made me realize two things: 1) I never realized how much I hate silent protagonists and 2) I never realized how much I put up with bad character writing in Bethesda games. Take Starfield for example, am I supposed to feel imprinted on our main character? You _could_ make decisions in the game and yes you _could_ pursue romantic relationships with the characters in the game but I never felt anything _remotely_ similar to the level of friendship I had with Jackie, Judy, Panam, Reed, Songbird, hell even Rogue when you play through her arc in Act 3, etc. Those characters I _still_ think about even after I played the game. Those experiences I had with them meant something and that's because 1) V's voice acting is so fucking amazing that you feel something when they felt something even though you picked their dialogue and 2) the relationship they have with these people is so real. Phantom Liberty's relationships with Reed and So Mi/Songbird were so nuanced and multi-faceted and it put you in really uncomfortable decision-making points and that speaks on how amazing the characterization in that game is. I'm sorry but I unironically think Cyberpunk 2077 is the greatest open world game of all time, especially after the 2.0 patch where the game's bugs were fixed and they released Phantom Liberty.
I almost never played it again because of how it released had it day 1 on PS4 and couldn't even play it for longer than a hour without it crashing, but I recently picked it up on PC and my god they polished tf out of it, only had one crash during a 50hr save and only one consistent bug that had to do with a perk, it gave +100 percent dash distance towards enemies but I kept glitching through the ground when I would use it, easy to live without thankfully, other than that it was a flawless experience that left me sad no matter what ending I did
@@tyler6602 Def the biggest drawback is that it is just so much better on PC than on console, I can't deny that. There are some silly glitches like that perk one or some lighting stuff but I still take this over literally any other open world game.
I gotta say I think male V fucking killed it too. There are scenes where the hurt in his voice just feels so visceral and real. The delivery is killer.
@@Killerwale-hk4wy yeah and it’s probably fair female V absolutely kills it. I just like to give male Vs voice actor credit since they get left out of the conversation a lot even though they killed it too. To me it’s preference which is better since they both did such a great job. But I’m probably biased since my first play through was with male V and everything hits harder the first time around. Both are probably some of the best if not the best voice acting I’ve heard in games.
@@mcnuggets2825 Yes absolutely. A game that focusses so much on a voiced PC needs good voice acting and Cyberpunk delivered. I don't think there's any really bad voice acting except for maybe Lizzy-Wizzy but she was not a voice actress.
I played my soul survivor as a woman who initially was frantic to find her kid, but after being told 200 years had passed assumed he was probably dead. She's not a believer in prophecies so ignore mama Murphy for the most part.
that's a nice cope there BUT "assumed he was PROBABLY dead"!? after 200 years? ok then you enter institute and your character reacts to synth shaun "oh my god you're ten" AND THEN SHOUN ENTERS THE ROOM like wtf why is this oldass man keeping a 10 year old version of himself
@@tedtheodore5715 Unplayable is a gross overstatement. Maybe if you played on console, or if you were part of the people not having a SSD on a PC to play game in 2020. From 1.0 to 1.6 (before they reworked the game with 2.0 and phantom liberty), the game was pretty much the same for me, with some new QoL here and there at each patch. But honestly, 99% of the bugs I've seen people post video about were due to a something not being loaded in time before being displayed. Either animation with NPC T-posing, general quest script that made the game soft lock, vehicles colliding, textures mipmap and higher quality models not being loaded, etc. There's a reason all the people that reviewed the game before launch had nothing but positive comments about the game. Everyone changed the review post launch because the console players were in shambles. They only offered PC version to review the game, and it sucks for console players, but a SATAII 5400rpm 2.5" HDD was never going to be great for a modern game without any loading screens. A PC slightly older than the PS4 was running the game totally fine with just a SATA SSD, and suffered less bugs in a full playthrough of the game than in the intro of skyrim or fallout 4 without mods.
@@random_dude3184 I bought it a year after release and there were still parts where animation was missing and the game didn't feel complete, but it still ended up as one of my favourite games of all time. Never felt such a large variety of feelings in a game
I think what really fleshes out V more than a lot of other protagonists, especially ones without a lot of preestablished background (e.g. shepard who just had a background for us to work with as opposed to geralt who is already established) is the existence of johnny, his existence allows for a lot of self reflection, and it really makes your V very unique, and you end up knowing a lot better, feels like an old friend by the end.
@@VaultArchive72 And even that makes sense since it's canon that the chip was half damaged (so johnny isn't all there) and even when he was alive he was a high functioning cyberpsycho
@@VaultArchive72 you can get that a bit, especially if you want to go straight to phantom liberty, but he is generally a choom after the opening bit which is unlikely to not take place early, other than that, it's really a matter of does he sound like he cares or does he sound like a sarcastic asshole, but he's just like that sometimes. I actually feel like V's attitude to him is much more obvious, as in some missions you can just see are supposed to happen earlier, and every response to johnny is some form of a F you get out of my head. Or, you're just a glitch shut up.
@@uchiha617hh What's also great is that your interactions with him are not reduced to him being a moral/ethical signpost; just because he approves/disapproves doesn't mean you're "right"/"wrong" about the choices you make. Sometimes he has valid insight, many other times he is simply knee-jerk reacting off old stereotypes/cynicism, and it's up to the player to decide if they agree/disagree with him or not, based on their own knowledge of the world.
@@СкоринДанил correct. But those didn’t give a voiced protagonist that had a very established backstory. The most thorough before 4 was 3, and even that ur backstory was that u came from a vault. And many have that same criticism with prior fallout games as well.
@@tedtheodore5715 cyberpunk hasn’t been buggy and glitchy for years dude. Granted some small ones popped back up when the 2.0 overhaul and DLC came out, but by 2022 the glitches (even the small ones) were all gone thanks to constant work by CDPR to fix the mess their marketing team had pushed out the door too early. Whereas fallout games still have bugs and glitches in them decades later.
I preferred 1.0 Cyberpunk 2077 to any version of FO4 all day, every day, despite both of them having absolutely terrible 1.0 releases. The reason is simple: It was clear CDPR were upset with themselves and their 1.0 release, upset with the cut content, yet the content there was clearly hand-tailed and filled with a genuine care for the spirit of the franchise. FO4 is just terrible joke after terrible joke, with atomic-bomb related songs being the only thing to have survived and no one in the world picks up their trash after 210 years.
There was a solid story in there, even if the gameplay was warmed over Borderlands. Cyberpunk won the Labor of Love Steam award, and it earned it. I've played since launch, and it just kept getting better.
In Bethesda's defense, they did an awful job and I want nothing to do with any game from them ever again. Though... at least they delivered on the quality of game we all expected from Fo4. The state of the game didn't surprise anyone, and it certainly did not overpromise much. Cyberpunk on the other hand, also did an awful job and I want nothing to do with any dev from CDPR ever again. Though they overpromised so much, and under delivered to the level of No Mans Sky, but at least No Mans Sky spent nearly 10 years making NMS the game it was always meant to be. While CP2077, is hardly more than the polished over-promised lie than it was on release. Sure, I could stick the two side by side and compare what each game did well and poorly. Yet at the end of the day, they are both liars, both greedy, and both run by executives with no actual concern with making good games. Just lying and collecting a pay check.
It’s because v wasn’t meant to be us. V is v we’re just like Johnny along for the ride able to choose and change some outcomes Nate thou is ment to be us. Not Nate. The actions taken are ours yet Nate dos the talking.
True. You can not have a story arc for a fill-in character. The details about V can be different but the core is the same. This is a good lesson for ttrpg's players.
that's one of the worst takes ever you do not fill the role of V - V changes for you while nate or nora are completely incompatible with the player with atrocious dialog that completely does 180 during the talk
@@ryszakowy not really most of the story beats stay the same. yes their are multiple ending but getting to them you have to do the same to vary similar things. nate can quite literly change the world then walk up and act as if hes the nate that just left the vault difference is in perspective towords the actions we take and how it affects those around us not the actual things we do. fallout tried to tie nate to the story, cyberpunk tied v to the world.
My head cannon for Nate and Nora is they accidentally conceived Sean early in their relationship and had a shotgun wedding. Helps to explain how you move on so quickly after defrosting, kinda
You are right, V is an individual with her own personality but also I feel MY V is MY V.... the writing on this... I can't fathom the talent of the writer team... in one side you got normal story writers that are good on making cool characters, in other hand you got professional game writers that know how to make characters that feel personal to the player.
@@psychosalad6653 he almost works. He really just needed like 2-3 more quests, ideally some where you could have like a normal conversation or spend time with him before he invites you to hang out with his family. Panam, Judy, and Kerry all have these and it makes their romances work so much better. Like talk about moving fast, last time we interacted I was saving your cousin from unspeakable torture and death.
@@TexMackersonshe is and isn't her character is well... she is a lesbian feminist, but she is a well written lesbian feminist. Real life i would cross the other side of the street if i saw her, but in the game you romance her in a context, to start, you can only romance her as Valerie, and Judy (aside from Meredith one night stand), is the only logical choice for a male playing as fem V. I can't for the love of God romance anyone else, without feeling gay...
@@efxnews4776 i was talking more about how she only uses you, romances you to disconect from Evelyn's death (who which i doubt was just a friend) and Mikos bretrayal from clouds, a friend? Yeah, maybe, but THAT kind of friend that just uses you even if theyre not aware of it
Starfield went back to the blank slate and it still didn't help at all with regards to quality. Also, you can, but it's harder to pull off. Hell, this video is basically about how V is a perfect blend of both. Haven't you watched it?
You can, that's what the V-themed part of the video is about - V is a great compromise between "a complete blank slate" and "a fully established character".
I think another problem with the Romance Dialogue in Fallout 4 is also like. ...It can happen anywhere. You can have it after clearing a Raider hideout or in a base that you haven't fully cleaned up yet or anything. I mean yeah maybe you can choose to have the dialogue happen later and whatnot, maybe try and make a special spot to have that dialogue at... I dunno. I'm just rambling a little.
no you are correct if bugthesda had a bit of competence they would have more than 4 dialog options and romance SHOULD be a option that can be chosen at later time
I remember someone saying that one of the leads of Bethesda said that no one cares about story and roleplay in games. That all they care about is gameplay. This made me very skeptical of Bethesda games from now on.
@@ryszakowycyberpunk cant do gameplay AT ALL, its flat out unplayable xd if fallout 4 is such an awful game how come it was more playable at launch than glitcherpunk was xddd
There is another important point i think. In Fallout 4, and Bethesda games in general, we as players ar just listening to monologies, dropping a meaningless comment here and there. In Cyberpunk 2077 on the other hand you have dialogues, participating characters including V are constantly passing the ball to each other. We as players steer the tone and direction at important points and make some descisions. And this is waaaas more immersive, engaging, natural and plaisible than having bland npc xyz yapping about how hard their past was.
Fallout 4 has a story? I thought I was meant to just make settlements and go around with a suit of power armor and a minigun blowing kneecaps and hoarding caps.
yeah two endings actually disguised as 4 endings 1. institute wins and everyone is angry 2. institute blows up and everyone is happy 3. institute blows up and everyone is happy 4. institute blows up and everyone is happy
Female V is probably like the best character in this situation, her line delivery and genuine emotion in her role makes Cyberpunk better as an already phenomenal game
@@shuang7877 yeah but Female V delivers her lines way better and more emotionally at times, especially when she’s finding out that the relic is gonna kill her
Something I love about the romance in Cyber punk is that it isn’t just about sex. Just with panam you only do it once and it isn’t as male fantasy ish like say mass effect
@Fingolfin7455 true Witcher is great, but it's horny straight male bait for all romance options. Probably a little alienating for some but the big ones were still very well written. Mass effect didn't have the balls to make Shepherd bisexual, but I'm glad they came around to it eventually
@@henryrice9263 oh stfu lmao "straight male bait" like it doesn't encompass 99.9% of the human species. Shepard wasn't some trans friendly bisexual freak because the devs at the time, like the rest of the human race, knew it would be weird and would detract from a good story and character.
One thing I love about Mass Effect is how the Paragon Renegade spectrum often operated independently of your actual motivation. You pick a side in an argument first and then you convince people with charm or with intimidation. It seperates Shepard's behavior from the actual morality of the choices you are making, while at the same time the actual choices you make rewards you with sometimes alternate Paragon or Renegade points. There are are a few occasions where you can use charm in order to do something underhanded and obtain renegade points, and there are more then a few times when you can use intimidation towards a heroic outcome, such as successfully intimidating a hostage taker. All of this to say that it is a very good twist on the concept of moral choices in which you are choosing to do Good or Evil with it being assumed that you would do so while acting in a matching temperament. This also allows you to intuitively understand Shepards thoughts as you are presented with different responses serving the same end goal, great for understanding a character who has a personality of their own.
Maybe they should’ve had multiple character options. You pick one of the addresses on the street, and you have different aspect of a better story to explore, pivoting slightly from the usual model of one character dozens of storylines, multiple characters can be used to explore any combination, as all characters could come from the same neighborhood and be connected logically and believably.
River can learn about Johnny if you romance him and tell him the next morning. That is your only shot to tell him and if you miss it V never tells him.
8:10 I mean... with Genshin Impact, we find out that the other twin has an important role our character wasn't there for, and we see them sometimes in the story. 🤷♂
I think another big part is that in FO4 the characters just feel lifeless to talk to as well, I mean they don't show a lot of expression or move they're bodies a lot where as in Cyberpunk there is lots of little details like subtle facial expressions or slight twangs in the voice with they way they deliver they're lines, the characters just feel more like actual people to talk too.
Someone else explained why is so expensive to do this in every AAA game and why is not so good idea specially in RPGs, but at the same time explained why The Witcher III found the solution to this dilema.
But see, specific animations for specific scenes would be too difficult and expensive. So fuck it, we'll make a game that could've came out 5 years earlier and still have been exactly the same.
On my second playthrough I noticed Jackie tapping his heel rapidly in the meeting with Dex right before the heist, as though he was both excited and nervous. So many good examples of this where the dialogue, delivery and body expressions feels like something I see with real people I know.
15:44 Also, Geralt has amnesia for the first game and a big chunk of the second one, so making weird choices that would not fit the character from the books is justified.
V’s desire to live is one we all know. We understand the want and desire to not die and not be shoved out of our own body. Also we make choices but also have things said that don’t just come from us so V feels like a character we empathize with instead of a straight up self insert. We get to feel for them but also get to have the bad moments as ours and we have consistent companions with strong writing keeping us invested with a sense of narrative direction and build up. Not all of us are parents, so the sole survivor won’t click with everyone. There is a little personality given them but they are heavily meant to be a self insert but the conversations and choices are so rigid and stunted it’s hard to connect. The companions along the way aren’t vital to the story and add very little outside their personal quest lines. Also the story is bad, anyone with a frontal lobe figured out the bulk of the twist in the first minutes of the game. The second we re-froze everyone knew the child wouldn’t be a baby anymore. And the first big villain we fight already showed Shawn as a teen so early on we were given confirmation that the obvious was the case. Honestly the side quests are all vastly superior to the main story. Cutting out the child and just having us learn about and cope with the wasteland after unfreezing would have been a more compelling narrative.
I think Baldur's Gate 3's take on character creation with custom or origin would've really been a great option for fallout 4. There's enough houses on that street that you could've had 20 different characters all with unique backstories and living situations, or choose custom where you choose some basic options to just give your character some grounding. They'd just have to go with a story that allowed for a more general hook. Like bandits raid your vault taking slaves and killing any resistance, but you manage to get out either during the raid or after being a slave for a bit.
Listen my friend, I can tell you one thing for sure, this is one hell of a good video, holy shit, subscribed instantly. Thanks for producing it with so much care!!
I mean, look at Starfield. For a RPG, the story matters. If it does not then it is not a Role Playing Game. At the end of the day Bethesda has never been good at writing stories.
Speaking of, I was watching a video a while back about a scene comparison about Starfield and Cyberpunk with a similar scene and the difference was night and day because in Starfield they just sat there and talked, whereas in Cyberpunk they actually had scripted actions to perform to really immerse yourself.
@@StaffOfFun the problem with tes is while the main stories are cool, they're not executed well. the faction quests and dlc are more fun to playthrough. i like the lore and story of being the dragonborn and defeating alduin, but the whole blades angle leaves a lot to be desired and it's genuinely a waste of time for the dragonborn to do the things delphine tells them to do. the only important bit is that dragon wall, but the dragonborn didn't even need that to defeat alduin. there's also the peace summit which is extremely boring to go through. the alduin fights aren't great either, both harkon and miraak are better fights. starfield suffers the same, in that the faction quests are more fun than the main story. although it's main story isn't even cool, i just found it boring and wished i was playing during the war
Not story so much as it's writing and presentation. The story can be "find mcguffin and kill the evil monster", but if the writing is good it will make the player feel involved in the world and care enough to want to stop the monster.
I'm the exact opposite. The more I play fallout 4 the more I hate it and see how goddamn lazy the writing is. Yes I enjoyed my first playthough, but when the honeymoon was over I could never go back. Not without 200 mods to fix Bethesdas dumb shit
Polar opposite with New Vegas for me. Played it before fo4 and hated it for the first few days. Something clicked and made me realise it’s one of the greatest games of all time
@@aysn2277Same here. Started with Fallout 4 in middle school and loved it. Tried New Vegas a few years after that and hated it and refunded it on Steam. Now i'm on my second year of college and New Vegas is by far my favorite RPG, period. Funny how that works
@@aysn2277And now no amount of mods can make Fo4 HALF as enjoyable or replayable as New Vegas. It's hard to recognize 4 as a Fallout game anymore with the lack of skills, interesting perks and roleplay options
Because... you say so? This was definitely NOT the general opinion about V -and- Cyberpunk back in 2020. Here's something to consider: patching the game TECNHICALLY never had anything to do with the STORY.
The problem I have with Vault Dwellers as protagonists in Fallout is that they don't feel like that they live in the world of these games, like where Harry Potter would visit Hogwarts, the vault dwellers would "visit" the wasteland and mildly interact with the world. The reason V works is because they live in the world, and feel a personal stake to the events of the game, they feel like a person going about their daily lives.
that's the problem with bethesda's fallout in real fallout everything is in it's place in fallout 1 if you didn't saw something then you had no option to talk about it in fallout 2 you were from a tribe not knowing anything about outside world but educated enough to not be mesmerised by everything in new vegas you already were across nevada and california and in bethesda's fallout you are 5 minutes out of the vault and your character talks about mutants it never saw and in reverse you were across the map and your character has no idea about things you saw because quest script says so you go from veteran wastelander to fish out of water in less than 5 minutes
I think that's why Courier 6 is such a banger protagonist. Blank slate, not a vault dweller, and they've got a personal stake in the events of the game... because getting shot in the head would naturally make anyone curious as to *why* they got shot in the head and whodunnit.
@@RememberTheDuck And the fact that they were just some mailman is what makes them an even better protagonist, because it's a mundane job but it's a dangerous one in the world of Fallout.
I'll have to disagree here, Nomad V is basically the same as a newcomer of Night City and it rocks as a first playthrough, when you learn about the world and setting alongside him/her. Vault Dwellers are the same in the FO universe, and honestly they're great outsiders to the setting for new players and a staple of the franchise by now. Other characters (like the Chosen one or the Courier) can work too, so I'm not opposed to either tbf. The real problem with Bethesda protagonists isn't really that part, it's that no matter what they choose they are simply terrible at writing, botching any potential player-driven personality they could add with blank slate outsiders or any relatable/fun/interesting backstory and realistic dialogue they could add with a predetermined character. They're just bad at doing both.
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I just like when people shit on pagliarulo's work
The internet pushes anything praising Cyberpunk really hard so your video is getting pushed to tons of people.
Dorks united
CDPR knows how to write a story and convo. Bethesda writes like theve never had a normal conversation
Yea because Emil Pagliarulo is the worst writer in, probably, the entire gaming history ever. And he doesn't even want to improve his writing and game design ways, he thinks what he's doing is great. That's why none of the Bethesda games had any decent quests or storytelling.
@@stevendeamon I mean... dude. He's real bad, but he doesn't write the whole game alone, you know? It's unfair to blame just him alone, blame the whole team responsible.
Go A-waaay
@@stevendeamon His best work was Shiverring Isles the Add-On for Oblivion. Since then it went downhill.
@@BIGESTblade Im going to blame it on him alone and there's nothing you can do about it. He asks for 70-100 euros for his 1st grade writing skills. Stop simping for that failed "writer".
Also, you can't just wish some to go "a-way". Cancel culture is not a real thing lol.
This whole video is exemplified by the fact I didn't even know Nora was a lawyer
I only found out because of a Joov video where he played Nora
I thought she was a doctor.
The only thing confirming she is is her law degree on the shelf next to the door, which is very easy to miss
The only thing that exemplifies is the fact that most of you are lazy and expect everything to be served on a plate. If you tell me you played fallout and didn't know she is a lawyer...I don't even believe you went past the intro. The lore of Fallout 4 is significantly bigger than Cyperpunk. It's up to the player to look for it or not.
@@OBEYTHEPYRAMIDIt’s literally one single item in the intro which requires you to notice a prompt.
With Nate there’s a lot that shows and tells that he’s military. With Nora you find out with a single diploma by the front door.
Did you know that the neighbors are Ghouls too? It’s mentioned indirectly by Codsworth but a random encounter involves you killing a bunch of named ghouls wandering the map…those are your ghoulified neighbors.
So much cut content and stuff that is mentioned in passing.
The virgin “I need to find my son” vs the Chad “wake up samurai we got a city to burn”
Johnny silverhand is the man, the myth and the god damn legend.
Romance in skyrim: here is 500 gold, will you marry me
500 gold is 500 gold
Less cringe then to sloppy trash in cyberpunk
@@CrimsonBladezzbros desperate for reactions 😭
That's how I met my wife.
@@loafdog8046 and you gave him one
The reason is that V actually has conversations with people, where the Sole Survivor just says different phrases that all translate to them saying “Yes” in different flavors. CDPR actually wrote good stuff.
the difference is that CDPR wrote dialog
bugthesda wrote three ways to say yes and one to say no but actually yes
@@MedalWelder its more than that...
In cyberpunk you actually make choices, and sometimes they aren't even verbal ones ..
Like in the time when you have to decide to save Takemura or let him die...
If you just listen to Johnny, Takemura dies, but if you defy his suggestion you can save Takemura...
You don't need to say NO to Johnny, you don't need to say anything at all, all you have to do is choose wich action you will take...
This is how clever C77 is, you interact with the game, characters and the world in more ways than simple dialogue choices.
@@efxnews4776bro you can SAVE Takemura!? I didn’t even know you could do that
@@YaniBroYup just go backwards and go up to the floor he was on
@@YaniBro sorry spoil to to you...
The Sole Survivor isn't enough "them" to be them, but not enough "you" to be you. V is enough "them" and "you" to make it perfect.
Exactly. CP2077 gives the player enough agency that everyone's V is slightly different and personal to them, but we're all the same badass merc at the end of the day.
the sole survivor confessing his love to that npc and the cut back to his wife in the cryopod was so funny
I actually laughed out loud 😅 it's so ridiculous and stupid
She's dead. Is he meant to stay latched onto the corpse or something?
@@ThrowAway-ji1cfWell for the sole survivor time hasn't passed. The partner has been dead for 60+ years yes but for the sole survivor it hasn't been more than a few hours since the bombs dropped
@@ThrowAway-ji1cf that literally like your wife dying and in 2 to 3hrs going to the next house just to confess having feelings for her since your wife death 2hr prior...
Unless he was cheating before her death.. huh maybr
V is enough a character that I can be in V's head. Nate/Nora is no one, but I'm constantly reminded they aren't me.
Yeah you can be in V's head, you can also be in npc's heads, when you glitch right through them xd
@@tedtheodore5715 as funny as it is, it doesn't happen as much as it did unless you are intentionally trying to bug the game.
Great way to put it. Fallout 4 made me feel so against having a voice protagonist in a first person western RPG because it made me feel like I wasn’t playing as my own character. But when I played Cyberpunk, somehow V was fully voiced and had their own story, yet I felt simultaneously interested in them, and as if I was them. CDPR somehow accomplished both at once
@@Bread_Bug YES! When I played Cyberpunk I got fully immersed in V persona. The way they Deliver dialogue to convey emotion, every random side quest You can actually make decisions on what you think would make sense to do, And it actually effects the world!
@@tedtheodore5715lol
The fact the prolouge was so long in Cyberpunk made me really attached to Jackie, and then we watched him die and i actually cried a little bit.
I never cried during Fallout 4s emotional scenes.
7 times I played through and every time I cry again... "See ya in the major leagues, jack"
@@WalterWhite-jz7ctyeah, but jackies funeral made me cry harder every time.
Fallout 4 had emotional scenes?
@@The_world_is_not_worthy_of_Himsarcasm technically is an emotional response. Not a good one, and definitely not handled well, but using the literal definition of emotional? Fallout 4 "has" them
Jackie dies? 😃
Just noticed that cyberpunk dialogue feels like actual conversations while fallout feels like two people saying their lines one after another.
Well, that is because in Cyberpunk you have two characters having a conversation. In Fallout, you have a blank canvas responding to NPCs.
It's impossible to write a conversation for the Sole Survior because you are the one who defines their character.
and now you know why the new vegas and isometric communities hated the 4 way dialogue prompt system so much on launch.
Hell Fallout 1,2 npcs felt more alive than fallout 4 npcs due to dialogue despite being a bunch of pixels
Never played Fallout but I find it funny cause the girl is opening up her past traumas with long dialogues and your character just sits there and replies with 1 sentence 🤣
@@monelmonelmonel before fallout 4, hell even some of fallout 3's (so Bethesda CAN do this) things like Cait's follower questline were broken up a LOT more with some longer prompts from the player.
Granted most of those were SKILL check dialogues and they got rid of all of those in fallout 4
Its more fun when you try to play your V like youre actually Johnny, silently influencing V's conversation nuances and shows how he starts to influence everything as the chip issue progresses. They kinda do this with the cigarette option which is fun.
This is even more cool when you realize Johnny is ALSO being influenced by V's personality and is becoming much nicer and understandable near the end of the game.
@@testedhawk Yep, that's from actual growth from his part though, not the chip itself
@@Tirexoyou can't know for sure, maybe both cases are present
Or the chip has nothing to do with personality change and it's just the fact that the both of them are stuck together completely like from start to finish, so I think that would definitely start changing your personality.
Yeah its so damn fun playing as the side character to someone else's story. Wait this was supposed to be a roleplaying game? Huh.
fallout 4 has absolutely NO consequences. I played a raider character in nuka world, came back and told garvey to cry about it, and he was just like "well I don't like that but I'll still work for you" even though I'm straight up murdering all the settlements he sends me to in order to make room for gangs.
in cyberpunk you can just lose panam and get Saul killed by putting off their rescue mission, and get river killed by ditching him
I do think it's worth noting that V's timelimit is very soft - it's there, but no one knows how long it is. The sidequests then do offer a couple of things: First off, V needs resources for whatever cure they search for, and getting paid for the sidequests is their way to do that. Secondly, they still need to survive in Night City.
all this, and lastly V also needs to enjoy life a bit. it's all fucked anyway, so why not live a little
Do you read shadowrun novels? There is one (takes place in Austria) where one of the side charakters has a terminal disease, which can be cured but he is broke and needs the money to get the treatment. He takes part in the job that is the center of the story, which would net him almost as much as he needs, but sneaks away at every opportunity to do little odd jobs in order to get the rest of what he needs. Fun read and put me in the mood in my first play through of CP2077. I basically made up my own timelimit.
And V still needs to pay back Vic.
@@beefboy9979 in my second playthrough, I paid back Vic right when he asked. Knowing about it, I made sure I had the money to do so before getting to him.
@@beefboy9979 First playthrough the first thing i did was complete sidemission till i had the money to pay him back just tot get a : " why are you paying me you idiot use your money better" so that was the last playthrough where i payed him
Talking to panam feels like talking to someone real. Heck, all of Cyberpunk 2077 npc looks and talks like a real person. Not to mention the generic npc passing by, looking at V with a naughty look.
Meeting Panam leaves an “impression”…😏
@@alderaancrumbs6260One could even say “Massive” 😏😤😮💨
Fr, I got hyped when shii was progressing between us😂😂
With Cait, you get a feeling that a door is closing and that she's about to become a generic NPC.
With Panam, you know the best is yet to come- especially when you get to The Star.
no it doesnt. Talking to panam feels like talking to a gen z kid who suffers from thatguyism. Real persons are far less interesting
Here's why V works and why the Sole Survivor doesn't: V has agency. The Sole Survivor has the unfortunate fate of being a Bethesda game protagonist, so agency is an illusion.
Sorry to break it to you but V doesn't have much agency either.
How the fuck does V have agency
Ah yes randm buzzwords
The whole fucking point of cyberpunk is v’s lack of agency huh? They have a death sentence, then they’re at the whims of the world around them, the only agency owned is through the human connections they make with those around them, and their ability to effectively kill or do jobs.
look at the sad Bethesda defense that are factually wrong, aww
I don't think blank slates have to be you, they can be any character you want to put on them. Like the table tops, you could make a character like you, or unlike you.
This is almost always what I do. I like creating unique characters that I sometimes give more backstory than just a personality.
Makes it so I don't always just choose the best options in games I replay. Also I get to try out new weapons or skills.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Good method if you're bored.
Me playing as Japanese woman in Cyberpunk who is bilingual who has some connection to the Tyger Claws and was an Arasaka corpo vs Fallout where I play as a white U.S veteran who speaks only English who looks for his son.
Sure, Cyberpunk is abit modded so my V speaks both Japanese and English, but it's still plausible even without mods, just not bilingual
@saber2802 The multilingual mod is so fucking good man. I really underestimated how much the different languages would add to the atmosphere in Night City until I tried it. Absolute must have.
@@saber2802
your V being made the way you are playing
vs either playing as nate or nora with established story that makes no sense with events of the game
Baulder's gate 3 is the best example for this it's way better when playing an already established character than a new character.
Cait: *a long monologue about her hardships*
the game: you are carrying too much! you can't run!
I died
Actually debuffed by trauma dump.
"Damn, that's crazy"
*You take a sip from your trusty Vault-13 canteen*
@levishaun8334 literally burden magic effect from morrowind
cait telling her traumatic past
you, skipping the convo: "uh huh, yeah, uh hmm"
I guess you could say that was all her baggage...
I think one of the big reasons Cyberpunk works so well is not only how well the conversations are written and how you can approach them very differently, but also how they are staged. Going from one location to another while talking, leaning against something, sitting down or getting up at certain parts, being able to drink, being able to pace anxiously or turn away from the conversations and look at the scenery. It really makes you feel like your V's emotions are unique and real and you are not experiencing the same conversation every other player has had.
That's also why the romance options work so well. You feel like the first kiss, or sitting around the campfire with Panam and putting your arm around her is actually a big step and getting to know her feels natural, because you are part of the conversation, instead of just picking the option that you would like your character to romance this other NPC character.
That with seeing my outfit, having my stats influence the conversations and having side missions make sense, because you need the connections and resources and can't just go after the cure all the time makes this game so immersive. Way more than any other open world, but also way more than any narrative game imo.
Nothing sells the awkward attempts at charisma like taking a long drink between each statement you make the first time you try and flirt with Panam at the bar.
@@leafyisqueer7155Gotta get all that liquid courage into ya 😂
There was a thread on twitter that made a similar point too, because Cyberpunk is fixed first person, the player is essentially a camera, and they use that to visually convey things. In the case of the romance options, they use physical proximity to illustrate the growing closeness. If you watch the Panam and Judy questlines in full, you can notice how far away they start in cutscenes, but as you progress with them Panam will kick her feet on your lap, or you’ll have a heart to heart sitting next to Judy in the bathtub. It’s using intentional cinematography and framing within the video game medium to tell the story, rather than the infamous Bethesda Camera.
The texting also feels real too. Texting panam feels like texting a real person
@smugwendigo5123 good point!
I saw the title and thought "that isnt right", then ismtantly realized i think of V as a character, but the sole survivor is just the player avatar
I see the fallout 4 world as a world, but the cyberpunk world is a broken glitchy matrix xd
Guy who’s clearly never played cyberpunk^
@@tedtheodore5715fallout is more buggy than Cyberpunk in 2024. Lol
@@tedtheodore5715fallout is more buggy than cyberpunk in 2020
God damn, I only just realized how much thought the writers put into that first optional dialogue when you romance Panam. Her struggle is always between family and keeping herself emotionally invulnerable. At this point in the story you are part of her family but she has also developed feelings for you, so when you tell her what is going on, her first reaction is to tell you that you are family and nothing can tear you apart, but she realizes, that that would also make her vulnerable so she interrupts herself to restart the sentence in a more „matter of fact“ way. Clearly still offering help, but also scared of emotional commitment.
I absolutely love how reckless Panam usually is.. yet still, with V, for once, she wants to play it safe.
Panam is a fantastically written and voiced character.
Unfortunately I'll never get to experience it, because it requires playing a ton of time in male V
@@foxperson8943 If you're on PC, there's a mod for that.
@@foxperson8943fr, female va is so much better imo.
CDPR is the epitome of what a dev company should be. They understood their blunders and worked hard to make sure that the consumer experienced the vision that they saw. Even after everyone had moved on and forgot their game, they weren't done. They went from a laughing stock to nominee for game of the year... 4 years after launch. True passion and dedication. We need more CDPR in every company.
They had already made the most awarded and most acclaimed game ever in TW3 so their work ethic and dedication was there for a decade before this. I really agree that they are the best devs of all time.
Oh my god. The way you cut in Nora getting her skull ventilated when Nate was like "I don't think I'd be happier with anyone else"
That caught me so off guard I spent like 2 minutes laughing
the editing here is so good
Lmfao. Reading comments and i see this right as it happens.
In real life, if you're a thinking, feeling human being, you can lose that special someone, then reach a point where you're lonely, find someone else and honestly won't be happier with another person. But that doesn't negate how you were happy with the previous partner. I lost the love of my life after 26 years. I'm at the lonely stage now. I just haven't found the next person yet.
To me, I believe it's due to the fact of how they're written. V is, while a vehicle for the player yes, is still shown to have their own character outside of what you, the player, input. Whereas Nate or Nora, while there is a bit of that, is still a blank slate
in that vein I really like the subtle differences between persona protagonists, they betray their actual character independent of you, the player. hell, they have different ways to respond to the exact same situation, which is great
@@512TheWolf512 Agreed
True, the only way to play the sole survivor is being a complete Psychopath void of emotions. Now it's immersive 💀💀💀
@@Carman_Voice_of_Distortion I love the fact that the writers of fallout 4 accidently made Nate being a war criminal cannon
@@vortiger7375To be entirely fair, that's just Canon™️. Fallout's U.S. executes Canadian soldiers on live TV, so...
upon finishing part of the "queen of the highway" quest where Saul speaks with Panam, i genuinely paused the game and said to myself "how the fuck did they make this so immersive its insane. i feel like im watching 2 real people which have become my friends talk" and thats the moment i realized cyberpunk 2077 is the most immersive game i've ever played. kudos to CDPR and im glad this game got the redemption, im not sure we will ever see anything like this again.
Not just a Fallout 4 problem, it's a Bethesda problem. When Starfield came out around the same time as Phantom Liberty the contrast was STARK
This is why I couldn't get into it all my friends played but I didn't care even while it was free on gamepass
Like comparing apples to oranges
@@ZombieGangster Moldy Apples vs Ripe Oranges. Starfield can't even compete.
@@ZombieGangster Apples that have been molding for 20 years, at that. By the time TESVI comes out, it will probably be closer to three decades.
@@Big01021I found it boring af for the first few hours, then I started to like it, then I took a break for a few weeks which game me a moment of clarity that the game was not worth revisiting. Such a shallow and unimaginative experience.
In Fallout 4 I said "I hate sinths" to the railroad and they still asked me to join. Meeting the railroad is technically part of the main quest.
In Cyberpunk, you have to save a doctor which refuses to go because she has a patient on the surgical table (hippocrates oats). You can help stabilize the patient or you can fail in saving him, resulting in different dialogues. Or you can do what I did and shoot a satara in the patient head killing him instantly, which still results in a third secret dialogue with the doctor. This was a gig. For those who don't know what a gig is: it's more secondary than a secondary mission. It was quite literally "save the VIP and get the money" and it still had more drama than Fallout 4 main quest.
It's not the first time I posted this comment about Fallout 4 (on anothet video). This is how much the Fallout 4 scene angered me.
The gigs in 2077 have so much flavor - it's insane. I remember on my 2nd playthrough I found that gig for the first time, my headcanon for V was as an ex-Trauma Team member. Make the whole taking lives/saving them decisions have more weight given that character background. I usually play a medic-type character in Fallout, so why not?
So imagine *muh immersion* when I'm presented with an actual moral choice -- do you save this Malestromer, or let him croak? Finish the job yourself? Sure, you're a doc, but you also know what kind of jobs Maelstrom pulls... a certain unsavory father-son BD editor duo definitely comes to mind...
Then there's... Fallout 4.
I just have to ask: Why thr heck did you do that?
Damn, I didn't even realize what gigs were when I first played cp2077.
There are two things below that level - assaults and shootouts. And even those have some kind of story in them. Usually you find some conversation transcripts there or notes.
Hell, I'm almost sure that depending on how you obtain the robot for the end of prologue, you may or may not ever see Maelstrom blocking roads in half of the district where you begin the game.
Actually you don't need the railroad to decode the chip there's a computer in the railroad HQ that shows you how to decode it. But doing that will make the railroad hostile because the computer is marked red.
@@branlex1315 the job's the job. Don't have time to babysit some gonk doc.
Or you know, in other words - roleplay.
V embodies something primal in all of us. This desire to be all we can be and not take shit from anyone.
Sole Survivor feels like a glorified errand boy who puts his/her own interests on hold whenever someone asks him/her to, just to obey the next command.
Even when V does a quest that comes as someone else's request, the game makes it feel like those people owe V a favor and payment. Like they were “honored” to work with V.
And when you play a game where your character takes out hundreds of enemies and accomplishes inhuman feats only made possible by the fact that if he dies, the world reloads to a save right before. Then it's only natural that the people in that character's life are in awe with him.
And that's V. His reputation precedes him, and it's apparent throughout the story: going from being a nobody to getting to the major leagues of merc life.
Sole survivor can literally change the political landscape of the entire world he lives in, and become the most powerful leader of the last standing faction. People will still treat them as a nobody who isn't owed any shred of respect. (except the few faction members who are programmed to react differently)
The time limit in cyberpunk could have been solved if they had made it vague. Like if Victor said "V, all I know is, it's going to kill you whether that's in six months or six years, I don't know." That gives the player enough space so that they aren't wondering why V would do some random fixer quest with what seems like only a couple of weeks to live.
I think it would have worked if Johnny's personality also showed up more the longer V goes before getting the cure.
@@JonR_1138actually him showing up is the biochip doing its job, so that wouldnt make sense
It was originally supposed to have a bigger impact on the gameplay.
Though I agree with you, when it failed they should have changed it but I think they didn't cause they ran out of time.
Ironically.
Actually it does. a great example of this is when you look in the mirror, you'll see Johnny instead of V, or he'll be sitting on your car when driving, depending on how far you're into the story
Although I do admit I wish it was a little more shown, they originally had more of a concept of this but we all know what happened with them running out of time @JonR_1138
they never specially tell you how long you have to live but i do agree but also shes looking for cure or fix to her problems and it wouldn't make sense if she just had the resources and money to get those things
Speaking about great voiceacting -- try to romance Judy and then comit s*cide. And wait for the credits. I was broken.
yeah I was trying to get the solo ending and accidentally deleted myself 😅
that shit was so sad I put down my controller and watched my reflection on the TV for a good 15 minutes
Yeah that ending fucked me up for a good 2 hours
I don't think I have the heart to do the suicide ending. All the romantic partners have their own reason for relying on V, so imagining them being so sad about it is already heartbreaking.
@@EJ_Red i did suicide as first choice
@@RudolfKlusal Valerie + suicide ending =Judy wrecking my soul...
Good piece for folks thinking to end themselves, it definitely put some weight on the choice...
Regardless of reason Bethesda apologists will stand by the notion of “Cyberpunk Bad” solely because of the launch, completely ignoring anything that happened after that.
Meanwhile, Cyberbunk apologists will cry how it's totally fine now, despite the fact that it's still a god awful game that plays terrible and has a worse story with yet worse characters.
Thanks for being a perfect example to this comment @TheDapperDragon
@@DWN-023 CDPR fans when you question thier stupidity and bad memory. Bad launch, lies about product, prohibits conternt creators using last gen footage, gets a lawsuit in their home country, lied to their investors, Sony of all companies decided to give back money on the game, the game had a whole anime to boost back its popularity, and a whole overhaul. On top of that there are still missing features in the game till this day. Man CDPR fans love deep rich stories of the issues in our wolrd and capitalism to only ignore the same message from the company that sold them a $70 product. Lmfao
I like both but prefer Skyrim and new Vegas over cp by a significant margin
@@TheRealSpicySucc Bethesda fans showing their hypocrisy
Fallout had a whole show to boos their popularity, a mobile game cashgrab, a disastrous multiplayer game in FO76, meh at best DLCs for 4, updates that completely bricked a large portion of mods and delayed a highly anticipated total conversion mod (and even if you didn't mod the game, the update still had it's own issues) and has the exact same themes of greedy corporations wanting to get rich and control the world. This company is selling 2 games from 1998 for 10 bucks each and 60 bucks for a VR port of a game that only costs 20 (40 bucks for the GOTY edition with all the DLC, 3 packs of which are cosmetic add-ons for the basebuilding part of the game)
Who's the greedy company again???
I think the cait conversation perfectly illustrates the problem with Fo4 when it tries to be serious, everyone just says their feelings like they're reading a literary analysis of their own character. Real people are rarely ever so self aware or willing to be so upfront. When dealing with tough subjects and complicated feelings, even the most blunt of people like cait will tend to talk around the subject, not matter of factly say "yeah I tried to eat my own shotgun a few times"
At least Hancock was fun.
I think it’d be funny if there was a game like with very nuanced characters like that, then a Bethesda character shows up, and does that explaining their own character stuff, then you get the option to just say “that was pretty fucking blunt”
I think stakes matter too.
Dexter Deshaun asks if you wanna die young, at the top of the world or as an old nobody.
Pretty obvious choice, right?
But then the game makes you LIVE that choice. The longer you play the game, the more V amasses, the more power she obtains, the stronger her relationships, etc.
But the clock is still ticking. The voice acting escalates to match the stakes; all set against an amazing city.
Once you thaw in FO4, you just blank slate across the wasteland, and the world is supposed to be enough. And its really not....
Watching this 3 months late, but the "I don't think I'd be happier with anyone else" cut made me spit my drink all over my work computer 😂😂😂😂
Fem V's Voice Acting also was just one of the best performances i have ever heard in a game, she really nails the emotions.
If you like her voice acting, you might like her reading of "No Coincidence", a cyberpunk 2077 novel on Audible
Corpo Valerie is the perfect combination if you want the right amount of snark
especially corpo V where the dressing downs she gives have peak sass and rlly feel like the classic "do you know who i am"
routine
@@Shiftinggers no lies were told here
@@ShiftinggersCorpo female V was my favorite playthrough.
V fucking off to do all the side content makes sense as V still wanting to live what time they have left to the fullest, making sure they got as few loose ends before any sort of point of no return
While sole survivor who is apparently desperately searching for his son is doing everything else that has nothing to do with that
Time left until the glitchy ass game crashes xd
@@tedtheodore5715 Show me a game of that scale without glitches and I'll show you one that hides them well
@@tedtheodore5715 You mean the bethesda game? lmao
@@tedtheodore5715 unpopular opinion, i played it at launched and experienced no bugs or crashes on my gaming laptop
This is why the internet is also a bad things sometimes. People who absolutely no idea what they're talking about on a subject speaking as experts or well educated on a subject
I got a feeling this is gonna blow up, its in my feed after only 5 hours and I'm not even a subscriber. Great job dude.
Brah please don't jinx it.
It better, the praise fallout 4's dialogue gets hurts me
59k views in less than 3 days, you sir are a prophet.
@@JayvanX1 tf you mean praise? i have never seen someone praise fallout 4's dialogue
Prophet of the Algorithm
My favourite little detail that makes cyberpunk so much better than any Bethesda game is that so many dialogues make you sit, lean, or drink something while you talk. It makes the interactions so much more believable when you chill with a friendly character in a café sipping coffee every other dialogue option, or talk around the table eating something or allows you to look upon a panorama of night city while you talk. I didn't realise how big of a difference that would make before, but yeah, that's how talking works.
It also allows the creators to use set point of view coused by this to give every damn dialogue perfect animations where NPC don't talk to where you stood or awkwardly swivel their head around. But that's much more effort
CP 2077 made us all realize that 2 characters awkwardly standing around weirdly waving their hands while exchanging lines of dialogue is the most staging 95% of game studios will ever be able to put in their game.
I have this same thought about the phones in CP2077. That was one reason I didn’t like starfield, you have to backtrack all the way back to the quest giver to turn in a quest, and you’re back tracking in your state of the art hyper drive ship… that doesn’t have a fucking phone to call and say “missions done what next?” Hell in 2077 every gig starts with a phone call and another to end the gig where you get told great job or try harder next time. It’s one of the simplest things and makes the game EASIER TO MAKE because you don’t have to model the character saying those voice lines just have them recorded. But Bethesda is so lazy they couldn’t do that much. I can’t get immersed in a future where every important message is delivered via runner and the strip club has fully dressed alien suits. So shit
@@garbearfar1394 Not to mention at the one point V runs into a landline phone, they have no idea what to DO with a handset.
Ironically, this was shortly after the two times I'd had conversations with people, explaining why most people born after 2005-ish have no idea what 'hand to side of head, pinkie and thumb extended' means 'telephone', and instead the more recognizable gesture is 'hand open, held flat, touch to side of head' because cellular phones are flat.
I got a good chuckle out of V holding the phone like 'what is banana?' going 'uuuuuhhh?'
This.
This is similar to well written dialogue scenes in film and anime, where people sit and converse while eating or drinking; it gives a passage of time and more natural framing, rather than simple shot/counter-shot framing and shoe-horning in plot important exposition.
How are they believable when the characters are glitching out xd
When i load up Cyberpunk and get going as V, it feels like a surrogate, like an extension to my mind and soul. I kept finding out stuff about my actual self through the choices i had to make in the game. A lot of them were raising questions which never would've crossed my mind, putting me in an actual dilemma. Like the final choice at the Phantom Liberty expansion. V isn't simply a vesel, but an extension to any player's soul and mind. It's dune masterfully and that's why i still can't stop playing this game.
0/10 video. Too compelling to fall asleep to. Now it's 1am and all I want to do is download Cyberpunk >:(
You should.
@@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa4545 pc dont run it :(
@@Palguim :(
Literally me except it’s 3:30 am and I don’t have space for cyberpunk😪 also I’m on a break from Cyberpunk but I’m starting to relapse 🫠
@@Palguima good PC does, sounds like you gotta upgrade
I'm loving the well deserved comeback that Cyberpunk 2077 is enjoying, every video, article, or comment has turned from extreme negativity at release, to complete and utter adoration.
Hopefully, CDPR have learned from this experience, and can knock it outta the park with their upcoming projects.
Well deserved is a questionable. It maybe a decent game now but it's still a complete lie to what the trailers and the Devs said it would be.
@@mryellow6918 define "complete lie"
@@mryellow6918still a great game
@@mryellow6918 "Complete lie"
So tell me exactly what they lied about
@@mryellow6918 complete lie is an exaggeration, it'll never be as ambitious as it was promised but those promises were considered ambitious for many reasons. I'd rather an enjoyable decent game that couldn't fulfill its own promises than one riddled with bugs, at least the other is playable
Finally bought Cyberpunk when the DLC dropped, and was blown away. I'm on my 3rd playthrough, and still finding new stuff and new ways to play differently, enjoying it like it was new.
Naming the Witcher chapter "Winds Howling" was truly an inspired choice.
“Winds howling… must be rain”
A storm, DAMMIT
I think what also helps is a compelling player narrative. V actually has consistently good line delivery and doesn't snapshot between emotions. They feel like a living person who is going through the process of having their personality overwritten and dying slowly
Unlike the sole survivor who can go from taking every psychoactive known to the wasteland before eating the corpses of their enemies who becomes a blubbering mess whenever their son is mentioned regardless of your options you've chosen
Can't pay attention to the cyberpunk story when the entire game around me is glitching to shit xd
@@tedtheodore5715 I didn't realise we were still in 2020
(Also. Like fallout 4's awful dialogue system doesn't bug out constantly?)
@@wickedraptor2651yeah Fallout 4 and CP2077 are both known for not working. You have “it just works” and “the game is fixed”.
@@tedtheodore5715 I dunno why you're still on this 'Cyberpunk 2077 is a shitty, glitchy ahh game!!' when the game is long since launch right now. I encountered few issues at launch, and never again since then.
I had definiatelly more bugs in Fallout 4 than Cyberpunk over all my playthroughs. Cyberpunk never crashed on me. Fallout 4 liked to crash to desktop from time to time, usually after I just spend 4+ h in settlement building.
The "You're carrying too much and cannot run" while Cait was trauma dumping was just a lil too on point
A game that I always believed did the "Two different main characters" idea well was Dishonored 2. Different personalities, different skills better for certain playstyles, and in the end you get to see the other character, so they're never 'abandoned'. Maybe not perfect, but better. Maybe because Dishonored is a different type of game at the end of the day, but I think it's still worth giving credit in this factor.
I agree dishonored did it perfectly
Tbf dishonoured is helped by having 2 explicit gameplay styles
the biggest misconception is "your RPG character is YOU" when in reality its "your RPG character is WHO you want them to be" i have only once in my entire life made "myself" in a game every other game has been on of my ...and i hate using this word OC's such as Millianna Nanoxus Alezecktris Deamonakis VonVeil, daughter of Azi and heir to hosue VonVeil
Yea I’ve never been interested in playing as myself in games, even in the sims. In all these games it’s more fun to create someone else’s story.
I just can't bring myself to choose dialogue options separate from what I would say.
@@BrokenGodEnt and you know what? thats fine, im not hating on people who DO play themselves in RPG's. but most people dont, and even i have trouble making my character dos some things, but like i said I have only ever once made myself in a game
There's also the fact the CDPR are good at building worlds that feel lived in. You can totally imagine these characters having a life outside of the times V interacts with them, and a lot of their decisions and interactions with you stem from their lives in this world of Night City
All the side quests and dates and roaming around night city in CP77 I thought made sense for my V. She is facing death, but she wants to go down in history as a legend before she goes. To "never fade away". All the side activites are her living life to the fullest with love, action, friendship, etc.
if player can do everything in less than 15 hours then V can definetly do it in two weeks
She'll fade away anyways, the render distance is glitched to shit xd the entire world fades away in fact
My V also had this motivation. If I'm to die very soon, I'll FORCE NC to see and remember me.
@@tedtheodore5715 She's the player. She's always in render distance.
I've been playing through Cyberpunk recently and for me the biggest difference that helps me with it is that in the Journal, after you get Jonny, the quest descriptions change to refer to you as the player as if it's him talking to V, but of course it's directed at you. Also, V has far more dialogue to the point he's easily on par with other NPCs and feels like he's having a genuine conversation and being part of events rather than just chipping in with the occasional one liner
"Chipping in"? I see what you did there
I care about V, a lot even, a surprising amount.
I don't give 2 shits about Nora and Nate.
Cause Emil Pagliarulo is an awful writer and the best thing he's done for the Fallout series is unintentionally make Nate a war criminal
Even then he didnt do a good job of it, Nates been retired for probably one, possibly multiple years by the time of F4 and was a paratrooper in the sino front... The War-Criminal Stuff was a broadcast, the day the bombs fell, of power-armour wielders, during the canada operation. Emils such a hack of a writer that not only did he get a paratrooper and a power-armour wearer mixed up,
But he also managed to in the same tweet, Mix up Fronts on different Continents and the fact that the character he was talking about, was retired and no longer in active service. During a broadcast, set on the final day before the bombs fell, Dude cant even write a tweet without getting basic details about a franchise he's meant to be a lead writer on wrong. No wonder every Bethesda fallout is "Nondescript wasteland with barely any survivors" The man can barely get the story of the MC straight, Let alone NPCs with "Motivations" and "Character"
I'm not going to comment on his writing ability for a finished product, but the thing you're referring to was a poorly thought out shitpost on social media. It's got no bearing on the lore of the fallout series outside of "wouldn't it be funny if?". He didn't canonically "make" Nate a war criminal not only because it contradicts the actual opening to F4, but he's also not the Pope of Fallout and he wasn't writing in an official capacity.
@@sieda666In any other circumstance I would agree with you, however Emil has made countless blunders like this throughout his career and is a HUGE fan of misrepresenting timelines
There are perhaps hundreds of examples of Emil's poor worldbuilding management, calling his tweet a 'shitpost' implies he's got the ability to be ironic
Yeah, Emil said that he draws from his own experiences while writing but he never experienced anything in life. So no surprise that everything he writes feels so generic and bland.
@@DanakarEndeel Neon, from Starfield, is the worst of it. I've seen the night club described as 'if cyberpunk's Afterlife was ported to the N64'
28:27 I SPAT OUT MY DRINK
Funniest thing I’ve ever seen
Nate Inner monologue: c'mon Cait take the bait, I haven't wet the brush in 200 years omg I'm about to bust over here 😭
Ikr, but it's been maybe 2 days. Cut a man some slack.
0:20 PERSONA MENTIONED ‼‼
0:20 MIDSONA MENTIONED ‼️‼️
@@hellothere3693 BORING PERSON OPINION MENTIONED!!!!
@ GUY NAMED TOM IN 2024 MENTIONED 😭😭
Cyberpunk had a soul that fo4 just seems to lack
CDPR actually wanted to tell a story and make a game, Bethesda is just a passionless retirement plan for Todd and his buddies. If you think they care about the games they make then I have a bridge to sell you.
Bruh
@@nagger8216if you think that I suggest actually playing the game
@@TheParagonIsDead I did, unfortunately. What, are you really telling me you found Nate and Shaun's story to be some deep, profound shit? lol
@@nagger8216I mean it’s a pretty big assumption 0 passion went into FO4. It’s definitely no game of the year and not the biggest passion project ever but to say that Bethesda didn’t care would be doing a disservice to the work they tried to accomplish.
"You're carrying too much and can't run' appearing in the corner at 24:44 is so on point for that conversation. On multiple levels.
Playing Cyberpunk made me realize two things: 1) I never realized how much I hate silent protagonists and 2) I never realized how much I put up with bad character writing in Bethesda games. Take Starfield for example, am I supposed to feel imprinted on our main character? You _could_ make decisions in the game and yes you _could_ pursue romantic relationships with the characters in the game but I never felt anything _remotely_ similar to the level of friendship I had with Jackie, Judy, Panam, Reed, Songbird, hell even Rogue when you play through her arc in Act 3, etc. Those characters I _still_ think about even after I played the game. Those experiences I had with them meant something and that's because 1) V's voice acting is so fucking amazing that you feel something when they felt something even though you picked their dialogue and 2) the relationship they have with these people is so real. Phantom Liberty's relationships with Reed and So Mi/Songbird were so nuanced and multi-faceted and it put you in really uncomfortable decision-making points and that speaks on how amazing the characterization in that game is. I'm sorry but I unironically think Cyberpunk 2077 is the greatest open world game of all time, especially after the 2.0 patch where the game's bugs were fixed and they released Phantom Liberty.
I almost never played it again because of how it released had it day 1 on PS4 and couldn't even play it for longer than a hour without it crashing, but I recently picked it up on PC and my god they polished tf out of it, only had one crash during a 50hr save and only one consistent bug that had to do with a perk, it gave +100 percent dash distance towards enemies but I kept glitching through the ground when I would use it, easy to live without thankfully, other than that it was a flawless experience that left me sad no matter what ending I did
@@tyler6602 Def the biggest drawback is that it is just so much better on PC than on console, I can't deny that. There are some silly glitches like that perk one or some lighting stuff but I still take this over literally any other open world game.
Fem V's English voice acting is one of the best voice acting of any video game.
I gotta say I think male V fucking killed it too. There are scenes where the hurt in his voice just feels so visceral and real. The delivery is killer.
@@mcnuggets2825 yeah, I've heard he's also really good. But isn't the consensus that Fem V is slightly better?
@@Killerwale-hk4wy yeah and it’s probably fair female V absolutely kills it. I just like to give male Vs voice actor credit since they get left out of the conversation a lot even though they killed it too.
To me it’s preference which is better since they both did such a great job. But I’m probably biased since my first play through was with male V and everything hits harder the first time around.
Both are probably some of the best if not the best voice acting I’ve heard in games.
@@mcnuggets2825 Yes absolutely. A game that focusses so much on a voiced PC needs good voice acting and Cyberpunk delivered. I don't think there's any really bad voice acting except for maybe Lizzy-Wizzy but she was not a voice actress.
Male V for the build up for don't fear the reaper any day.
cyberpunk soundtrack is peak
My goodness bro. is it!
I get chills and then get all the memories of my earlier experiences playing the game.
ve like da payne
When the Johnny theme kicks in 🔥🔥
EVERYTHING BURNS EVERYTHING BURNS I still listen to my favourites whenever I travel somewhere.
It’s awesome! Lots of good artists.
Nate the Rake fixed the entire game, now i love fallout 4
I played my soul survivor as a woman who initially was frantic to find her kid, but after being told 200 years had passed assumed he was probably dead. She's not a believer in prophecies so ignore mama Murphy for the most part.
that's a nice cope there
BUT "assumed he was PROBABLY dead"!? after 200 years? ok
then you enter institute and your character reacts to synth shaun "oh my god you're ten" AND THEN SHOUN ENTERS THE ROOM
like wtf
why is this oldass man keeping a 10 year old version of himself
@@ryszakowy,
Something, Something, Shaun Mcguffin, Something, Something.
Despite the rough launch Cyberpunk 2077 ended up being one of my favourite games.
Rough launch is a gross understatement, it was unplayable, yet still costed full price xddd
@@tedtheodore5715 Unplayable is a gross overstatement. Maybe if you played on console, or if you were part of the people not having a SSD on a PC to play game in 2020. From 1.0 to 1.6 (before they reworked the game with 2.0 and phantom liberty), the game was pretty much the same for me, with some new QoL here and there at each patch. But honestly, 99% of the bugs I've seen people post video about were due to a something not being loaded in time before being displayed. Either animation with NPC T-posing, general quest script that made the game soft lock, vehicles colliding, textures mipmap and higher quality models not being loaded, etc.
There's a reason all the people that reviewed the game before launch had nothing but positive comments about the game. Everyone changed the review post launch because the console players were in shambles. They only offered PC version to review the game, and it sucks for console players, but a SATAII 5400rpm 2.5" HDD was never going to be great for a modern game without any loading screens. A PC slightly older than the PS4 was running the game totally fine with just a SATA SSD, and suffered less bugs in a full playthrough of the game than in the intro of skyrim or fallout 4 without mods.
i bought it in late 2023 and it was an amazing experience but man i genuinely can’t imagine how bad ts was when it first released😭
@@random_dude3184 I bought it a year after release and there were still parts where animation was missing and the game didn't feel complete, but it still ended up as one of my favourite games of all time. Never felt such a large variety of feelings in a game
12:15 - I dunno, some of those civil cases can get pretty hairy...
I think what really fleshes out V more than a lot of other protagonists, especially ones without a lot of preestablished background (e.g. shepard who just had a background for us to work with as opposed to geralt who is already established) is the existence of johnny, his existence allows for a lot of self reflection, and it really makes your V very unique, and you end up knowing a lot better, feels like an old friend by the end.
Do the quests out of order and Johnny becomes bipolar.
@@VaultArchive72 And even that makes sense since it's canon that the chip was half damaged (so johnny isn't all there) and even when he was alive he was a high functioning cyberpsycho
@@VaultArchive72 you can get that a bit, especially if you want to go straight to phantom liberty, but he is generally a choom after the opening bit which is unlikely to not take place early, other than that, it's really a matter of does he sound like he cares or does he sound like a sarcastic asshole, but he's just like that sometimes. I actually feel like V's attitude to him is much more obvious, as in some missions you can just see are supposed to happen earlier, and every response to johnny is some form of a F you get out of my head. Or, you're just a glitch shut up.
@@uchiha617hh What's also great is that your interactions with him are not reduced to him being a moral/ethical signpost; just because he approves/disapproves doesn't mean you're "right"/"wrong" about the choices you make. Sometimes he has valid insight, many other times he is simply knee-jerk reacting off old stereotypes/cynicism, and it's up to the player to decide if they agree/disagree with him or not, based on their own knowledge of the world.
Exactly, every time you talk to him we end up learning more about V each time
The difference is that Cyberpunk is V’s story, but fallout 4 isn’t the sole survivor’s story.
Edit: thank you for putting that song at the end.
Omg, got chills when the notes started playing
just like any other fallout game?
@@СкоринДанил correct. But those didn’t give a voiced protagonist that had a very established backstory. The most thorough before 4 was 3, and even that ur backstory was that u came from a vault. And many have that same criticism with prior fallout games as well.
The difference also is that the bugs and glitches distract from the entirety of glitcherpunk's story xd
@@tedtheodore5715 cyberpunk hasn’t been buggy and glitchy for years dude. Granted some small ones popped back up when the 2.0 overhaul and DLC came out, but by 2022 the glitches (even the small ones) were all gone thanks to constant work by CDPR to fix the mess their marketing team had pushed out the door too early. Whereas fallout games still have bugs and glitches in them decades later.
Basically V has more character and personality than the sole survivor, there saved you all watching a 38 minute video
I preferred 1.0 Cyberpunk 2077 to any version of FO4 all day, every day, despite both of them having absolutely terrible 1.0 releases. The reason is simple: It was clear CDPR were upset with themselves and their 1.0 release, upset with the cut content, yet the content there was clearly hand-tailed and filled with a genuine care for the spirit of the franchise. FO4 is just terrible joke after terrible joke, with atomic-bomb related songs being the only thing to have survived and no one in the world picks up their trash after 210 years.
There was a solid story in there, even if the gameplay was warmed over Borderlands. Cyberpunk won the Labor of Love Steam award, and it earned it. I've played since launch, and it just kept getting better.
not picking up trash makes sense for gameplay reasons, junk is a core part of the game
In Bethesda's defense, they did an awful job and I want nothing to do with any game from them ever again. Though... at least they delivered on the quality of game we all expected from Fo4. The state of the game didn't surprise anyone, and it certainly did not overpromise much.
Cyberpunk on the other hand, also did an awful job and I want nothing to do with any dev from CDPR ever again. Though they overpromised so much, and under delivered to the level of No Mans Sky, but at least No Mans Sky spent nearly 10 years making NMS the game it was always meant to be. While CP2077, is hardly more than the polished over-promised lie than it was on release.
Sure, I could stick the two side by side and compare what each game did well and poorly. Yet at the end of the day, they are both liars, both greedy, and both run by executives with no actual concern with making good games. Just lying and collecting a pay check.
It also helps that Cyberpunk's world of Night City felt alive, Fallout 4's Commonwealth just felt like a typical Bethesda open world map.
@@thenecromancer8805have you played Cyberpunk now??? It’s genuinely a great game, and might be one of the best modern RPG games out rn
It’s because v wasn’t meant to be us. V is v we’re just like Johnny along for the ride able to choose and change some outcomes
Nate thou is ment to be us. Not Nate. The actions taken are ours yet Nate dos the talking.
True. You can not have a story arc for a fill-in character. The details about V can be different but the core is the same.
This is a good lesson for ttrpg's players.
that's one of the worst takes ever
you do not fill the role of V - V changes for you
while nate or nora are completely incompatible with the player with atrocious dialog that completely does 180 during the talk
@@ryszakowy not really most of the story beats stay the same. yes their are multiple ending but getting to them you have to do the same to vary similar things. nate can quite literly change the world then walk up and act as if hes the nate that just left the vault
difference is in perspective towords the actions we take and how it affects those around us not the actual things we do. fallout tried to tie nate to the story, cyberpunk tied v to the world.
@@ryszakowytrue. In a sense the player is the chip in Vs head. God dam.
@@ryszakowyGeralt is Geralt, he was *NEVER* you, Geralt The Witcher, not Geralt The Horse Fucker
My head cannon for Nate and Nora is they accidentally conceived Sean early in their relationship and had a shotgun wedding. Helps to explain how you move on so quickly after defrosting, kinda
@@undeadf honestly, I like this more than the synth theory
You can choose a dialogue option in the beginning that implys shaun was concieved in a public park
You are right, V is an individual with her own personality but also I feel MY V is MY V.... the writing on this... I can't fathom the talent of the writer team... in one side you got normal story writers that are good on making cool characters, in other hand you got professional game writers that know how to make characters that feel personal to the player.
It’s like your own V is a part of your personality, kinda like Johnny, and when that part of you dies, you feel empty and hollow.
You know what talent the cyberpunk team DOESN'T have? Programming talent xd
@@tedtheodore5715Why did you make over 20 comments shitting on cp77, actual shizo.
@@tedtheodore5715Weirdo.
I died at the “not you” to River cause he is LITERALLY the worst to romance.
I love what V said about feeling safe with him, that was a nice touch, but otherwise there wasn’t much to him
@@psychosalad6653 he almost works. He really just needed like 2-3 more quests, ideally some where you could have like a normal conversation or spend time with him before he invites you to hang out with his family. Panam, Judy, and Kerry all have these and it makes their romances work so much better. Like talk about moving fast, last time we interacted I was saving your cousin from unspeakable torture and death.
Judy Is actually the worst
@@TexMackersonshe is and isn't her character is well... she is a lesbian feminist, but she is a well written lesbian feminist.
Real life i would cross the other side of the street if i saw her, but in the game you romance her in a context, to start, you can only romance her as Valerie, and Judy (aside from Meredith one night stand), is the only logical choice for a male playing as fem V.
I can't for the love of God romance anyone else, without feeling gay...
@@efxnews4776 i was talking more about how she only uses you, romances you to disconect from Evelyn's death (who which i doubt was just a friend) and Mikos bretrayal from clouds, a friend? Yeah, maybe, but THAT kind of friend that just uses you even if theyre not aware of it
The "not you" with River is one of the funniest things I've seen in a while
Its simple, you cant have a blank slate and a character at the same time. Fallout 4 attempted that
That's a huge excuse, Starfield can be worse than Fallout 4
@@digo2407 yeah starfield is worse than fallout 4 but that has nothing to do with what im talking about
@@digo2407 no matter
it's still terrible and other terrible game from the same dev doesn't make it better
Starfield went back to the blank slate and it still didn't help at all with regards to quality.
Also, you can, but it's harder to pull off. Hell, this video is basically about how V is a perfect blend of both. Haven't you watched it?
You can, that's what the V-themed part of the video is about - V is a great compromise between "a complete blank slate" and "a fully established character".
I think another problem with the Romance Dialogue in Fallout 4 is also like. ...It can happen anywhere. You can have it after clearing a Raider hideout or in a base that you haven't fully cleaned up yet or anything.
I mean yeah maybe you can choose to have the dialogue happen later and whatnot, maybe try and make a special spot to have that dialogue at... I dunno. I'm just rambling a little.
no you are correct
if bugthesda had a bit of competence they would have more than 4 dialog options and romance SHOULD be a option that can be chosen at later time
Super great watch bro. Excellent execution. (i mean both the video making and the clip @ 28:25) you had me dying lol
I remember someone saying that one of the leads of Bethesda said that no one cares about story and roleplay in games. That all they care about is gameplay. This made me very skeptical of Bethesda games from now on.
and bethesda can't do neither story nor gameplay
funny since gameplay is just as lacking
@@ryszakowy and cdpr proved they can do both, masterfully...
Gameplay of Cyberpunk is insane to say the least...
I'm pretty sure that was Emil Pagliarulo, who has been a lead writer/lead designer for Bethesda since Fallout 3
@@ryszakowycyberpunk cant do gameplay AT ALL, its flat out unplayable xd if fallout 4 is such an awful game how come it was more playable at launch than glitcherpunk was xddd
There is another important point i think. In Fallout 4, and Bethesda games in general, we as players ar just listening to monologies, dropping a meaningless comment here and there.
In Cyberpunk 2077 on the other hand you have dialogues, participating characters including V are constantly passing the ball to each other. We as players steer the tone and direction at important points and make some descisions. And this is waaaas more immersive, engaging, natural and plaisible than having bland npc xyz yapping about how hard their past was.
Tbh that video with nightclub in starfield compared to the one in cp2077 sums it all up beautifully
Fallout 4 has a story? I thought I was meant to just make settlements and go around with a suit of power armor and a minigun blowing kneecaps and hoarding caps.
yeah
two endings actually disguised as 4 endings
1. institute wins and everyone is angry
2. institute blows up and everyone is happy
3. institute blows up and everyone is happy
4. institute blows up and everyone is happy
@@ryszakowy Truly amazing Endings Such talent.
@@JRF119just like the talent the cyberpunk programming team had xddd
Cyberpunk has a story too? I thought i was meant to just go around a glitchy flickering world with broken npcs and out of wack combat
@tedtheodore5715 4 years and still on the cyberpunk hate train. brother that stop was lifted 3 years ago lol
Female V is probably like the best character in this situation, her line delivery and genuine emotion in her role makes Cyberpunk better as an already phenomenal game
I think both Vs are great, they feel like different characters in a way.
@@OrionDawn15 Female V better but mk
What's the difference?? I played as the male V and I assume they said the same lines?
@@shuang7877 yeah but Female V delivers her lines way better and more emotionally at times, especially when she’s finding out that the relic is gonna kill her
@@shuang7877 Basically the same lines, but different delivery. They both sound great.
How man doesn't have more subscribers is beyond me, these videos are great
Something I love about the romance in Cyber punk is that it isn’t just about sex. Just with panam you only do it once and it isn’t as male fantasy ish like say mass effect
I love how Panam is pissed that she's your gf and you don't tell her that you're dying so she can help you.
How is mass effect a male fantasy? Care to elaborate?
The Witcher trilogy is a far better example for you point.
@Fingolfin7455 true Witcher is great, but it's horny straight male bait for all romance options. Probably a little alienating for some but the big ones were still very well written. Mass effect didn't have the balls to make Shepherd bisexual, but I'm glad they came around to it eventually
@@henryrice9263 oh stfu lmao "straight male bait" like it doesn't encompass 99.9% of the human species. Shepard wasn't some trans friendly bisexual freak because the devs at the time, like the rest of the human race, knew it would be weird and would detract from a good story and character.
What’s wrong with the male fantasy? If you don’t like it, don’t play it.
One thing I love about Mass Effect is how the Paragon Renegade spectrum often operated independently of your actual motivation. You pick a side in an argument first and then you convince people with charm or with intimidation.
It seperates Shepard's behavior from the actual morality of the choices you are making, while at the same time the actual choices you make rewards you with sometimes alternate Paragon or Renegade points. There are are a few occasions where you can use charm in order to do something underhanded and obtain renegade points, and there are more then a few times when you can use intimidation towards a heroic outcome, such as successfully intimidating a hostage taker.
All of this to say that it is a very good twist on the concept of moral choices in which you are choosing to do Good or Evil with it being assumed that you would do so while acting in a matching temperament.
This also allows you to intuitively understand Shepards thoughts as you are presented with different responses serving the same end goal, great for understanding a character who has a personality of their own.
Maybe they should’ve had multiple character options. You pick one of the addresses on the street, and you have different aspect of a better story to explore, pivoting slightly from the usual model of one character dozens of storylines, multiple characters can be used to explore any combination, as all characters could come from the same neighborhood and be connected logically and believably.
Thats actually a very good idea
River can learn about Johnny if you romance him and tell him the next morning. That is your only shot to tell him and if you miss it V never tells him.
That "Not you" ended me
8:10 I mean... with Genshin Impact, we find out that the other twin has an important role our character wasn't there for, and we see them sometimes in the story. 🤷♂
I think another big part is that in FO4 the characters just feel lifeless to talk to as well, I mean they don't show a lot of expression or move they're bodies a lot where as in Cyberpunk there is lots of little details like subtle facial expressions or slight twangs in the voice with they way they deliver they're lines, the characters just feel more like actual people to talk too.
Someone else explained why is so expensive to do this in every AAA game and why is not so good idea specially in RPGs, but at the same time explained why The Witcher III found the solution to this dilema.
But see, specific animations for specific scenes would be too difficult and expensive. So fuck it, we'll make a game that could've came out 5 years earlier and still have been exactly the same.
On my second playthrough I noticed Jackie tapping his heel rapidly in the meeting with Dex right before the heist, as though he was both excited and nervous.
So many good examples of this where the dialogue, delivery and body expressions feels like something I see with real people I know.
@@chilarius we don't need ultra expensive details
we need better written dialogs
@@ryszakowy Now i can agree with you. But i can understand too the need to improve the no-verbal expression of NPC´s.
15:44 Also, Geralt has amnesia for the first game and a big chunk of the second one, so making weird choices that would not fit the character from the books is justified.
V’s desire to live is one we all know. We understand the want and desire to not die and not be shoved out of our own body. Also we make choices but also have things said that don’t just come from us so V feels like a character we empathize with instead of a straight up self insert. We get to feel for them but also get to have the bad moments as ours and we have consistent companions with strong writing keeping us invested with a sense of narrative direction and build up.
Not all of us are parents, so the sole survivor won’t click with everyone. There is a little personality given them but they are heavily meant to be a self insert but the conversations and choices are so rigid and stunted it’s hard to connect. The companions along the way aren’t vital to the story and add very little outside their personal quest lines. Also the story is bad, anyone with a frontal lobe figured out the bulk of the twist in the first minutes of the game. The second we re-froze everyone knew the child wouldn’t be a baby anymore. And the first big villain we fight already showed Shawn as a teen so early on we were given confirmation that the obvious was the case. Honestly the side quests are all vastly superior to the main story. Cutting out the child and just having us learn about and cope with the wasteland after unfreezing would have been a more compelling narrative.
I think Baldur's Gate 3's take on character creation with custom or origin would've really been a great option for fallout 4. There's enough houses on that street that you could've had 20 different characters all with unique backstories and living situations, or choose custom where you choose some basic options to just give your character some grounding.
They'd just have to go with a story that allowed for a more general hook. Like bandits raid your vault taking slaves and killing any resistance, but you manage to get out either during the raid or after being a slave for a bit.
Ah, so 2077 takes the New Vegas approach to dialogue? Very very nice.
Listen my friend, I can tell you one thing for sure, this is one hell of a good video, holy shit, subscribed instantly. Thanks for producing it with so much care!!
I mean, look at Starfield.
For a RPG, the story matters. If it does not then it is not a Role Playing Game.
At the end of the day Bethesda has never been good at writing stories.
The world needs to exist for the story, not the story existing for the world.
That's the difference between a RPG, and a Bethesda open world game.
TES series has great lore and story...only part that lacks are dialogues and most characters.
Speaking of, I was watching a video a while back about a scene comparison about Starfield and Cyberpunk with a similar scene and the difference was night and day because in Starfield they just sat there and talked, whereas in Cyberpunk they actually had scripted actions to perform to really immerse yourself.
@@StaffOfFun the problem with tes is while the main stories are cool, they're not executed well. the faction quests and dlc are more fun to playthrough. i like the lore and story of being the dragonborn and defeating alduin, but the whole blades angle leaves a lot to be desired and it's genuinely a waste of time for the dragonborn to do the things delphine tells them to do. the only important bit is that dragon wall, but the dragonborn didn't even need that to defeat alduin. there's also the peace summit which is extremely boring to go through. the alduin fights aren't great either, both harkon and miraak are better fights. starfield suffers the same, in that the faction quests are more fun than the main story. although it's main story isn't even cool, i just found it boring and wished i was playing during the war
Not story so much as it's writing and presentation. The story can be "find mcguffin and kill the evil monster", but if the writing is good it will make the player feel involved in the world and care enough to want to stop the monster.
I'm the exact opposite. The more I play fallout 4 the more I hate it and see how goddamn lazy the writing is. Yes I enjoyed my first playthough, but when the honeymoon was over I could never go back. Not without 200 mods to fix Bethesdas dumb shit
The sad fact is: No amount of mods can fix bad writing, unless maybe it's a total conversion.
Polar opposite with New Vegas for me.
Played it before fo4 and hated it for the first few days.
Something clicked and made me realise it’s one of the greatest games of all time
@@aysn2277Same here. Started with Fallout 4 in middle school and loved it. Tried New Vegas a few years after that and hated it and refunded it on Steam. Now i'm on my second year of college and New Vegas is by far my favorite RPG, period. Funny how that works
@@aysn2277And now no amount of mods can make Fo4 HALF as enjoyable or replayable as New Vegas. It's hard to recognize 4 as a Fallout game anymore with the lack of skills, interesting perks and roleplay options
@@BernardBernouli I think i wrote this back in 2016
Because... you say so? This was definitely NOT the general opinion about V -and- Cyberpunk back in 2020. Here's something to consider: patching the game TECNHICALLY never had anything to do with the STORY.
I love my choom V so much that I straight up grieved for her at the ending of Cyberpunk 2077 knowing that she doesn't have long left to live.
@@CosmicAether s/he only dies in the suicide ending, all others s/he lives in some way...
Ps: 6 months is a long time to write some cyberpunk stories.
@@efxnews4776 Oh I know but inevitably V will die. Unless Cyberpunk Orion is us trying to cure V.
@@CosmicAether yes, but everyone dies...
Besides, V survive in the PL dlc, although this ending is almost as bad as the suicide ending...
The problem I have with Vault Dwellers as protagonists in Fallout is that they don't feel like that they live in the world of these games, like where Harry Potter would visit Hogwarts, the vault dwellers would "visit" the wasteland and mildly interact with the world. The reason V works is because they live in the world, and feel a personal stake to the events of the game, they feel like a person going about their daily lives.
that's the problem with bethesda's fallout
in real fallout everything is in it's place
in fallout 1 if you didn't saw something then you had no option to talk about it
in fallout 2 you were from a tribe not knowing anything about outside world but educated enough to not be mesmerised by everything
in new vegas you already were across nevada and california
and in bethesda's fallout you are 5 minutes out of the vault and your character talks about mutants it never saw
and in reverse you were across the map and your character has no idea about things you saw because quest script says so
you go from veteran wastelander to fish out of water in less than 5 minutes
@@ryszakowy What's worse is that the dialogue wheel can be really inconsistent at the best of times, at least with Bethesda Fallouts.
I think that's why Courier 6 is such a banger protagonist. Blank slate, not a vault dweller, and they've got a personal stake in the events of the game... because getting shot in the head would naturally make anyone curious as to *why* they got shot in the head and whodunnit.
@@RememberTheDuck And the fact that they were just some mailman is what makes them an even better protagonist, because it's a mundane job but it's a dangerous one in the world of Fallout.
I'll have to disagree here, Nomad V is basically the same as a newcomer of Night City and it rocks as a first playthrough, when you learn about the world and setting alongside him/her. Vault Dwellers are the same in the FO universe, and honestly they're great outsiders to the setting for new players and a staple of the franchise by now. Other characters (like the Chosen one or the Courier) can work too, so I'm not opposed to either tbf. The real problem with Bethesda protagonists isn't really that part, it's that no matter what they choose they are simply terrible at writing, botching any potential player-driven personality they could add with blank slate outsiders or any relatable/fun/interesting backstory and realistic dialogue they could add with a predetermined character. They're just bad at doing both.
I feel like, regardless of any issues Cyberpunk had originally, it’s always had an amazing story.