Will A Longer OverRange CVT Drive Belt = More Speed & Acceleration For Me? TPR 86cc Build : Part 38
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2020
- In this episode of the TPR 86cc Build Series, I'm investigating the difference in two similar CVT drive belts from Malossi. I found a belt that's slightly longer than what I have been using, but a little bit thicker. I did tests with both to determine what belt works best for me and my Chinese Minarelli clone scooter engine. Hopefully I can provide more insight into a few details of CVT tuning that are less commonly discussed. I've also improved the CVT cover bearing setup a little and I'll show you some clutch work that should be coming soon.
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Find all of the videos in the TPR 86cc playlist :
• TPR 86cc Build Series
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The clutch explosion video clip is from "ScooterChamp2004 ＜CVT EXPLODE THE MOVIE ＞" by UA-cam channel "motochamp2010"
• ScooterChamp2004 ＜CVT ... - Авто та транспорт
Glad the sealed bearing is working!
I guess the only thing left to test, is now long would the longer, thicker belt last. If the longevity is a fair improvement on the other belts. It might be worth using.
Can’t wait for the clutch tuning! Gj 👍🏻
Great video & enjoy watching ur experiments!! Great advice & detailed proof results.
dude .. this makes insanely good sense ... thx chief ! your videos are nourishing our brains :D
Definitely enjoy your videos Man you're one of the most informative on the tube I really wanted to see the difference in the the belt length obviously it rendered a little more top end.....
thanks man I appreciate you and the time you put in to make these quality videos it kind of makes the difference between what someone's going to do and what they're not going to do saves a lot of people money and on the other hand it makes us spend it got to love it👍
Thanks. I'm always happy to hear this stuff helps.
I’ve been binge watching here in York, PA. Felt like withdrawal waiting for this video. Enjoy summer ‘20, if you can.
Thanks for sharing. Very instructional video.. liked and shared
Great videos, full of helpful information... I bought a sport pipe with the suggested main jet for my wife's buddy 50 (Christmas present... I know, I am in trouble) and I am trying to learn all I can about CVT tuning. I also enjoyed the Go Pro footage of OC... I love the place.
Man love to see your vids they are amazing and educational even to us that think we know it already. Oh and thanks so much for answering the questions I’ve asked you over public comments. I have a couple more questions to ask but need to do a bit more myself before asking. I’m doing basically the same as you but using some different parts as tried most. Thanks again for being a real gentleman 👍🏻
Just going back to one thing that I think you may need to look at that would also make an amazing video. Carb size and jetting. As I’ve not seen you go larger through your builds.
I've only used a 28mm Dell a couple of times over the years and only very briefly because it never did anything for me either time. I have considered a larger carb for this, but I've kinda had the attitude of do it once and do it all the way for that so I looked at the Lectron... but that thing is probably $500 by the time it's shipped and you get the tuning tool. It runs well as-is and my budget it tied up in belts so we'll have to see.
Very good information keep up the work on research. Good going and finding the real difference between the two
I'm hoping to have my torque control here today! That would have been an awesome coincidence. They're really easy to set up from what I remember. It's been some years. But still a well done video with great inspiration!
Dude your awesome !
Thank you, leanerd a lot form you then from school
Thanks. This is so informative for me as I had been experimenting my scooter to increase the top speed. Previously my scooter max speed around 70mph. After few modification following your video, I can get 80mph tops. I changed from roller to slider, slightly bigger pulley front and rear and others modification to the cdi and everything. Anyway, good test data provided by you👍👍👍👍👍
Great result!
What do you have I hot a navi
Thank you for posting! As always very well done. The editing, how you present the numbers and your conclusions, simply awesome. I hope I am not out of line, and forgive me if so, but I rather enjoyed the lack of music. And it is not the genre, it just feels more like a Project Farm thing (i.e the youtube channel). But then again maybe you have gotten more comments suggesting you should have music. Follow your heart and your work means a lot to us!
Be well and stay healthy!
Thanks! I insert music where it feels right to me for each video. To me and some others, it flows better in some areas with a little accompaniment. I think it's one of those things where everyone likes something a little different so it would be tough to please everyone.
@@49ccscoot I understand completely, and am grateful for your reply! You follow your heart, and I shall not mention this again. Looking forward to your next!
@@aliciaantoniadis9100 Thanks for the support.
Argh, was really looking forward to the clutch tuning after the Dr. Pulley clutch fiasco, haha. This was great information and also goes to show all the little tricks that one can do to change the performance of their scooter. It's also good to know that generally speaking, it doesn't make a massive difference for a daily rider so for the average person it's probably not worth pulling your hair out worrying about all the different adjustments.
I have run dr pulley with no issues in my MHR team 70cc. Takes some experience when tuning it as it doesn’t function like a typical clutch
@@marcuspimentel27 jo
Yes stick with that and get yourself a good caviar belt and you be good to go I'm doing the same thing with experimenting I'm going to stick with the original belt instead of going longer belt is trouble keep up the good work Steve from Annapolis Maryland
You can also pop the rubber shield out to check the grease or clean and repack
Hey, love the videos! I had a question on deleting the starter clutch and gearing for the electric starter for a 1998 cw50. Thus deleting it left 3mm space to make up.Do I put a thick washer to make up the difference? Or possibly direct me to a video that might explain it to me? I appreciate you and the videos you make, they help out a'lot!
Just add spacers to make up for it. If you match the thickness that was there, then you should have the same pulley alignment as before and not have to change anything to make the kick start work and so on. When you assemble it, make sure the splines on the crank don't come past the splined parts (kick start pawl). Otherwise the vari can't be tightened properly and you can damage things.
Change the gears for more top, you'll also get more acceleration out of them. You'll only need to stiffen the clutch springs slightly to compensate.
I have the stage6 r / t clutch in my own setup which is full malossi rc one 94cc and I use the red spring that comes with the clutch, it works perfectly for me, you can set the adjuster so you have good clutch agagement,
I'm going to try this stage 6 series. It's sounds worth it??!!!??
@@michaelbearse4733 yes!
Awesome info dude, try a HMR 94cc bored out to fit a 100cc cylinder kit & splash out on a high end 2Fast build
You will see results then with the correct tuning ect
That would be nice. I've been trying to water it, but my money tree hasn't been growing. 🤞
Also on the rubber style, I always pop out one side and wash with carb choke cleaner the factory grease, air gun blow-dry and repack with hi-temp red quality grease. Then reinstall the rubber, goes in easy just use a fingernail to walk it in.
l to found replacement clutch springs a problem , 3 months wait for whatever colour ? specs usually wrong so , the stock noisy, loose spring needed repairs . Torch the end until red hot before you bend for more tension so it's a tighter fit, or less tension if you want it left stock . Very easy to make your own friction points then paint whatever colour floats your boat.
with the belt alinement, i had a bad alinement with my hond X8R-S only using a 70cc and a relatively mild setup for daily driving.
andi blow a belt each week or faster.... so what i did is make the diffence 0 in both sides and never blew a belt again. so plz look in to that is my advise.
Great video 👍🏼 . Do you think this same concept would work on the 2022 Honda Navi? Thank you
I'm not familiar with the Navi's setup, but the same principles apply to most CVTs. You've got to be sure not to confuse lack of power for a CVT weakness in all cases as well.
Finally a good clutch, that should be 100x better and easier than the stock one
And i still think theres something wrong with the cvt, i have done 1000 miles with my 86cc tpr and malossi la furia rossa kits now and the belt hasnt even worn yet. Dont know if you found the solution, havent watched the whole video yet
I hope it's way better, but I still wonder if it will really change much. I think my stock clutch has been nothing to complain about. When I got into this build, I thought there was no way that a stock clutch could work well at all based on pretty much everyone's remarks.
71 MPH. holy s.... NICE!!!
Roller weights rhat are dialed in. Along with proper clutch and torque springs with OEM belt makes the most difference. If you must have more speed change the internal gears. Only thing that will bring up your speed after that is a big bore kit or buying a bigger bike
Gaining top speed (even 0.5mph) but lowering rpm is a win for me. Especially on a 4t. Might experiment on my aprilia 🤔
🌟I'm going to check with the company & see what set up would work on the 171cc GY6 or if you could recommend one . I appreciate the advice on the oil cooler makes a big difference with heat soak so much cooler . Going with 4valve head , hard to find liquid cooled 💯Salute thanks for all the helpful tips 🛵🤘😎
I don't do enough with the GY6 to give much specific advice on them. LC doesn't seem very common. Mine ran so hot that I'd think it would be a good thing for the large versions, but most stay with AC. I think the only LC cylinder that I've seen was Taida, but again I don't really follow the GY6 market much.
Man, theres something about those chinarelli clone engine carters / cases. I bet its causing the vario half to wobble all over the place, I'm betting there is some sort of harmonic coming in when the throttle is eased and the 2 vario halves start to open again and the belt is somehow skidding and jamming and getting lunched in there. Thats why the best basis for a build like that is the Malossi RC/One engine kit as you get the stronger case and all of the good parts to put it together, I would consider one, but I dont want their vario or the cylinder - I might just buy the bare cases (I know, he is ona budget) but when you add up everything he spends the amount might not be so different.
The Chinese cases do get bashed more than I think they may deserve. To be fair, they actually have more material in some areas than the genuine Yamaha stuff. Build a stroker with both and you will clearly see it. I'd love an RC-One, but it's a big chunk of cash all at once and I'm not sure how they do with real street duty either. Again, not many people really ride them.
@@49ccscoot To be fair I havent had one in front of my eyes.. going out on a limb - I think maybe the polini case covers that have the extra bearing supports inside them could help this problem, if only you could fit a small DV-cam off of a quadcopter inside the case to see what is happening just before the belt shreds? ;)
I couldnt afford to buy the entire complete 94cc rc-one engine either, Like I could buy a complete 15 year old 1000cc sportsbike in decent condition for what it costs here in Australia - just cannot justify it. I think I will stick with the cases I am using and buy the MXS cylinder and periphery, maybe use a stage6 overrange tranny, I hope to find a 112mm CPI / Morini clutch secondhand on ebay classifieds before I go that route..
Getting much closer to doing that Zuma build😂. Get a discount code from them if possible
I have had ScooterTuning do discount codes for the forum before, but then they say they get used much more than other codes that they've done and turn them off. Maybe they'd be willing to do a limited time code or something like that for viewers and forum members in the future.
Good stuff dude and right on time. I've been playing around with new belts or at least shopping for what I plan to mess around with lately. What's your final drive ratio btw?
11.2:1
How do you get to this ratio?
@@michaelbearse4733 You swap either
your primary or secondary gears to get your desired gear ratio.
Where do I find the spacers for the variator boss.
ScooterTuning should have them. That's where I got my last batch. Before I knew that they were sold, I used to buy shims from McMasterCarr and just grind down the outside diameter to match or be slightly smaller than the boss since I couldn't find any exact fit. Now scooter tuning suppliers carry them so it's way easier.
Dude I did the same thing I got a 150 ccgy sex and I just my sweet speed is 48 to 50 without running it hard I can push it up to add it up to 65 but that's incredible how fast you can get that two-stroke to go you can't compare either one two strokes always win
25:25 to my knowledge malossi belts are already "grinded down" and sit more tighter on the drive boss, not 100% shure tho.
Well ive never aligned pullie and cvt but my belts last 20000km+ and i work as a dalivery 😁 driving full throttle 120km+ a day 😁
Hey there sir good morning, another great video as always. I have a question that’s off topic, I have a 1979 Honda express2 scooter and I’m considering a GY6 long case swap. Do you know what size wheel would be biggest? I heard that the size would a 13 inch wheel and the bike has 14 inch wheels. I really don’t want to spend over 500 dollars for a GY6B set up that uses up to 16 inch wheels, thanks for the video and ride safe.
I think they stop at 13" unless someone custom makes a 14" wheel. Maybe check your actual tire diameter vs what the GY6 would be to see how much different it is. I think my old one had 130/60-13 tires which were about 19.14" diameter.
49ccScoot thank you very much for time, I’ll have to do some measuring.
No właśnie xD kąt paska jest ważny
Have you sanded some aluminum off the engine block so that your V-belt does not go against anything after the pulley has become larger.
or was this not necessary on your model scooter.
on Yamaha Aerox 50cc models,
you must grind the engine block between the vario and the pulley. for above and below
I don't think I removed any material from the case. I believe I did from the cover. Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. Depends if I see a lot of contact.
Para una honda navi cuál sería la mejor faja
@14:15. Is that the best way to see where the alignment is? And could am out of wack belt alignment not allow the back wheel to turn??
I think it's a good practical way for most of us to check. I know that snowmobile CVT service sometimes involves laser tools for precise alignment. They seem to be expensive and custom made, so again I think most of us will need to use a simpler method like the one shown.
If the alignment were bad, the only way it's not going to turn the wheel at all is if the belt comes off totally.
love your vids! I'm wondering what that oscillating sound is @ 18:27 my scoot does the same thing at high speed. is it normal? where is it coming from?
Usually it's a wheel/tire balance issue or something in the gearbox.
@@49ccscoot thanks a ton for your reply, whenever I want to learn something about the gy6 I always look to your channel I appreciate what you do
good video
I've always meant this. that does not have to be true.
BUT
Long V-belt = more RPM
Wide V-belt = more speed
Check the angles of the variator and rear pulley if the belt has a 30° angle that means that variators and pulley should have at least 14° but obviously half of 30 is 15. I believe the malossi variator you're using comes with 13.5°... hope it helps.
I know the rear pulley is 14°. I checked it and actually re-cut it on the lathe on one side when I first got it and did some mods to make it work as well for me as the old steel unit did. The variator is close to that. A 28° belt would probably be closer to ideal, but these are both belts that Malossi supplies with these kits and it should be able to wear in to that much difference pretty easily.
The reason why is because the steeper variator angle ensures the belt slides vertically on that axis to travel on the variator face
Hey my variator face on both side have wear marking like rings in different locations I can feel them when I run my fingers on the variator. Is that normal or should I replace both pieces?
If it's worn enough to feel low spots, it's time to replace them.
Did your cooling holes cause the cracked clutch bell? How are you getting more free air into the clutches? Bill
I've used cooling holes on all of my small scoots pretty much as long as I've rode them without issue. I would suspect cracking to be from years of use, especially with multiple setups that hit hard. The cover is vented front and back.
try removing the shims from between the variator so it closes fully.
I have two 1p39qmb engines, one used, just under 5k miles on my scooter and a never used brand new one, both 49cc. Should I bother putting a big bore kit on the used one or just do the kit on the new one (49cc to 80cc)? Or do both LOL!?
Either way. Depends on your preference I suppose. If there is any warranty on the new one, then I'd say at least ride it first and make sure it works before the BBK.
have you tried removing the 1mm washer?
and what was the effect on it using longer belts?
I didn't. I have used the 6111108 without shims before. Top speed was higher, but takeoff wasn't quite as good. Still not bad.
Wow a belt every couple of hundred miles, something is definitely wrong
What kind of Tun brand can you trust if it's a V-belt you have to buy, I'm sorry I can't find a Tun brand that lives up to the length they have given up their V-belt for..
Ex-polini with item no. 248.040. the V-belt is stated to have a length of 750mm and if I measure it as you do, it is about 741mm. the same is the case with the standard V-belt polini has which is used for 50cc setup.
I have been trying for a long time to find the length I need, and it is precisely 750mm, but it is not one of these tuna brands that lives up to the length they have given up their V-belts for... I have tried the following tuna brands now..
Polini std - Polini kevler - Malossi -
Athena kevler ... it's only a tuna brand that has lived up to the length that they have given their V-belt to in length, and it's from tuna brand Stage6 ... I tried to measure measure my Stage6 R/T oversize V-belt and it is stated to be 775mm and that length fits if you measure it yourself according to...
unfortunately, I can't find any Stage6 V-belts, which are about 750mm here...
If you know of any V-belts where you know it is 750mm in length, please let me know or if you know a Stage6 V-belt, which is about 750mm here
For Hilly areas.. is it okay or can I use a lil shorter belt thn the stock !? What about the wideness of the belt ?
Alil shorter and lil fatter , wider will be okay ?
You can use whatever gives you a good result, but generally shorter (than stock) belts aren't good for performance. Wider belts tend to lower RPM, but if they are too wide they can't travel the pulleys well.
I just purchased a honda elite 80 cleaned the carb n new battery got it running but it only goes like 35 mph and makes noise in the cvt what cheap way to get to 45mph do you think I should do ide really appreciate some advise Thanks n Peace
The first thing I would do is a thorough CVT inspection :
ua-cam.com/video/2EjW-iSP-Q8/v-deo.htmlsi=djnlg8hDSRW26wMj
It may not be a bad idea to do a compression test as well and compare to a service manual spec. Make sure it's in good condition before any modifications.
Thinking about your alignment: you ride at high speed for long distances, how much does the variator push the belt away from the engine towards the cover since only one half of it moves? I’m a noobie at this but I’m mechanical minded.
The front movable half (variator) pushes away from the engine case. The rear movable half (torque driver) moves away from the engine case as well, so the whole system should stay aligned roughly as it is at rest if it's in sync for the most part.
49ccScoot
Ok, I was under the impression the movable part of the rear was in the wheel side, not the clutch side. I’m still learning how the system works. More so thanks to your video series.
@@robertpierce1981 you're correct, "the movable part of the rear is in the wheel side"
The wheel side and the engine case side are both the "right" side
The belt moves toward the left, away from the engine case and away from the wheel
Have you ever had issues of your kickstarter cups grinding together after shimming? I had min shimmed it seemed perfect, but my cups would touch when I would rev it
Yeah. It's a fairly tight tolerance. A lot of times, any slop in the assembly in the cover can cause it. ua-cam.com/video/wxgXQjRyahY/v-deo.html
See my kickstarter shaft that the kickstarter is on seem to have little to no play but the cup that in the cvt cover seems to move easy
@@nastynatesscooters9896 If the cup or pawl on the crank is moving, then you need to find out if the whole crank is moving (maybe bad bearings or worn cases) or if the nut is loose or spacing is not correct and allows play.
If it's the gear under the cover that rides on a pin, then make sure the pin is secure and the pin and gear aren't worn and loose fitting.
Is it ok for a molossi belt to slip a little when adjusting it after install? I can’t tell much when I ride.
Where can I find those bearings that’s in the vino cvt case. That holds the rear pully shaft
That is insane you go through belts every 100 miles and we’re not talking about cheap belts.
I think my modified torque driver was the problem. I've got an RC1 now, so it's a Malossi OR but I never modified the TD and it wears belts much slower now. I replaced one at 700-something miles and it would have been fine to stay on it.
You get different results ( speed and acceleration) when the wind direction change.
This is why I do my acceleration runs as averages. Back to back runs on the same stretch of road going in opposite directions, and I don't do this stuff when it's very windy.
The money people waste on getting scooter parts that they think is going to make it go faster and it don’t is mine boggling
Sir is that a honda navi if so where did you get the wheels?
It's a Chinese two-stroke scooter. Stock wheels, powdercoated.
Hey man, can you help me know: how about the variator mass itself (the weight of the pulley, clutch, bell, not the roller weigh) affect to scooter performance!? The more light weight variator kit, the more performance, isnt it?!
The variator mass would work basically like flywheel mass. Just like a small, light, inner rotor increases responsiveness, a small light variator would have a similar effect. A big heavy variator would make it less responsive, but it may maintain speed easier from the increased momentum/inertia. Realistically, worry about what the variator does for performance otherwise. How well it keeps you in the powerband. Variators are mostly aluminum, so not very heavy and if they are larger, then that usually increases shifting potential (all else being capable) so the action of the vari is more important than worrying about mass IMO. That said, don't buy a steel variator.
Basically the same deal on the rear pulley and clutch stuff. Lots of mass increases resistance to change.
@@49ccscoot thanks for your reply 😍
As i think, the variator mass look like the weight-balancing for the engine, so light-weight variator is good for acceleration but i think it do not light too much, to keep the engine in control, please correct me if i go wrong 😁, thank you.
My belt has been going strong AF it's been well over 20kmh and it still looks like new
Since switching to an RC-1 I am getting WAY more belt life. I believe my torque driver on the 86cc may have been to blame for accelerated belt wear.
Shim the front pully ??
Hi.. I am using Aerox/Nvx 155 4 stroke scooter.. I ve change the front pulley tu slightly bigger than stock with 10gram roller x 6(original was 13gram) I put 0.5mm spacer.. The acceleration was a bit faster but the top speed has reduced.. What should I do.. ?
I suppose the quick and easy option is to decide which is better for you; more speed or better acceleration. If you want to work at improving it all around, you can try adding a small amount of roller weight with the spacer to see how it reacts or maybe a little less weight without the spacer. Fine tuning always takes time. You can try mixing the 10 and 13g so they work like 11.5g. They must be staggered... ever other weight. For example; 10g, 13g, 10g, 13g, and so on. It's very important to maintain balance. Quick tip : If you don't have rollers to make small changes, you can try stuffing weights with aluminum foil. You do have to make sure weight is equal for all stuffed weights though, so you need a small scale. I have a video about it here : ua-cam.com/video/YkNhqEFeWVQ/v-deo.html
You must upgrade the primary gearring of the scooter from standard to malossi 13/44
Standard was 10.1:1. I'm at 11.2:1 now. Don't have many options with the Chinese clones, but I can use that gear set and add extra support to the primary drive shaft. I like the gearing for takeoff, which is what I really care about.
Four tenth of a gram 🤣 That sounds hilarious for someone using the metric system.
Who says that V-Belts have to sit all the way on the variator bush? The V-belt should be squeezed between the two pulley halfs and therefore has to be lifted a bit from the bush while on idle. How can this affect your gear ratio on take off?
You don't HAVE TO get the belt to ride right on/by the drive boss. Depends what works for what you're after. The farther away the belt is from center in the front pulley at takeoff, the less you can make use of a numerically high gear ratio and the faster it spins the clutch, which makes it engage at lower engine RPM. Lots of testing says that it works. If you squeeze the belt in the pulleys, that's fine... but sometimes it works best to have it a bit free.
@@49ccscoot A v-belt isnt suposed to be sit on bushes or whatever. Its not designed for. Sitting on the bush will cause less friction between the belt and front pulleys which results in slippage. You need more RPM to get the belt off from the bush and getting spinned proparly.
@@killuminatii1 It's not about contact with the drive boss to propel the belt. That's still done by the drive faces. It's about getting max travel. If there was any significant contact, you'd see the cogs on the belt wearing. I've never had that happen.
The reason the longer belt won’t travel more is the half pulley is touching the variator at full travel. Machine 2mm from the center of the variator and you will find more speed
I just don't care that much about speed. I've done a lot of variator mods. The shorter bosses and drive face mods for getting the variator to squeeze tighter are OK sometimes, but it can have negative effects on acceleration and that's something that I do care about. Thanks though.
I have a Taiwan Kaliber scooter with minarelli horizontal engine(jog) stock belt is 747x16.5x30 I found a polini 780x16.5x30 will this work it's length is longer a little over 33mm
That's a big step. That would likely be more appropriate with over range pulleys.
@@49ccscoot thanks I thought so quick question since you replied quick I'm rebuilding my gf chinarelli with all polini stuff when removing oil pump do I remove the round piece that spins on the pump I forget what it's called I think gear shaft maybe
@@Cito_Fiytb_617 You can just remove the plastic gear, but I take it all out of there to clean it up.
49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/564
The motor went out on my moped I found a wreck moped the same kind of moped but the motor mount from the top how hard is it to put mounts in for the top mount engine
Wade Barnes can be done with a lil lube and a c clamp
I don't advise doing this unless you have fabrication skills or find a swap kit. Would likely be easier to get an engine that bolts in or a different scoot.
Sorry I thought u meant the bushing in the motor mount
Hi what make crank are you using? & what size rod? Also what make cylinder are you using?
Thanks Adam
It's all part of the TPR 86cc kit for Minarelli. Came with the crank and cylinder kit as well as bearings, studs, seals... It's unboxed in the beginning of my TPR 86cc Build Series and the whole thing is shown being built. 44mm stroke, 50mm bore, 85mm conrod.
@@49ccscoot cheers for the response dude.. I’m getting a Malossi MHR 70cc engine from scooterswapshop but to compare them what did the total cost come to for the full engine build?
Also your videos are really helpful, I’ve learnt so much from them
@@Aj-om4dt The crank and cylinder are basically $500, again with studs, seals, bearings...
The MHR pipe IIRC is around $400, but there are cheaper options. MVT is about $300, but I think you can get ignitions cheaper without charging. Case machining would be expensive to have someone else do it. I do mine.
Is ur contra spring like a 2000rpm of 1500...ive seen a lot belts destroyed from 2000rpm? Im sure ya know this ..just in case
I'm not even sure what it is. It's not super stiff though. It's one of the softest I have.
Hi,what Quick throttle are you using. Sorry off topic.🤔
It's some cheap generic aluminum throttle. It's been on there for so long that I don't recall where I bought it, but there are a million like it.
So if I’m running a 729 17.7 30 how smaller should I get to get more take off ? It’s all stock but the carb is after market carb.
It'll depend on the exact setup. For takeoff, you mainly want to make sure the belt is able to ride on the drive boss and see where that puts it in the rear pulley. The goal is generally to have the belt able to reach the drive boss up front while being to the outer edge of the rear pulley. That gives you the most advantageous drive ratio for launch. Sometimes it's just a matter of shimming the drive boss. Could be that it needs a different belt. Of course clutch setup will play a big role too, but the CVT ratio being right for takeoff can make the clutch operate at higher RPM, almost like you put in stiffer clutch springs.
@@49ccscoot okay and the clutch is stock still cause I tryd a racing clutch and it spits in Haff on one side lol so I went back to the stock clutch but you right I might just try to put spacers on the front drive to see how well it dose thanks again for your help by the way I like that small bike you have set up it looks very cool
I’m sorry I don’t have the stock clutch in it’s just the high torque clutch that’s in the bike
Was that blood on the road at 18:39?!
I'd guess no. It's quite bright and spread out a long way.
I couldn't help but notice your malossi MHR team ll pipe . I have a buddy 50 with a Prima pipe would the Malossi MHR give me more top end? I don't want to spend 350 on a pipe I might not need I would appreciate it if you could let me know.
It depends. If your cylinder is good for 12,000-14,000RPM then it may work. The MHR Big Bore that I have likes to rev. It's not the kind of thing that I'd bolt on with a sport kit.
@@49ccscoot I have a 50cc malossi cylinder kit and malossi variator with 7 gram weights I'm 150 pounds. Not sure what the malossi 50cc minarelli kit max RPMs at. Could you give me better advice now?
@@lukeduke7413 If it's a Malossi Sport (there's more than 1 49cc Malossi kit), then I would stay away from the MHR exhaust. It's not a good match because the MHR is so aggressive. The Prima pipe would be better than it.
@@49ccscoot thanks for the advice man appreciate it 👍
Have you tried reveno clutch?
I have not. I've seen them, but I haven't seen them on high RPM 2Ts. I pretty much wasted my money on the last aftermarket clutch so I wanted to go for something that many people like with similar setups for now.
Aprilia sr 50 ditech-put that torq pulley and you dont have droping rpm
Which one? There are Minarelli, Morini and Piaggio versions of those scoots. I assume they use different driven pulleys.
Aprilia sr 50 ditech (morini), only that scooter has a full linear half. You need to install half of that half on yours, and only adapt 3 pins to your stationary half. You are using your original belt.
What tach/speedo gauge setup is that youre running?
Trail Tech Vapor
BRO MY MULTIVAR MALOOSSI SPINS WITH THE RING AND MAKE NOISE WHAT TO DOO
See if the bushing is worn and if it looks like it's wearing the drive boss.
Recently I bought a new 724 belt for my Peugeot Kisbee 50cc scooter. I measured the old belt length which was a 723, and a full 12 mm longer than the new belt. I looked up stretch in an article on v belts, it claimed that v belts stretch up to 2% which would account for the 12mm extra length. The old belt was a Bando, the current one a Naraku. Just wondering whether there is anybody who knows anything about cvt belt stretching over time? Also how temperature affects belt length?
I would suggest trying to find measurements of a new Bando vs Naraku. It's very common that the ratings from one manufacturer to the next don't match up. I had a brand new Gates 798 belt that was shorter than a brand new Bando 788 belt for example.
@@49ccscoot I was attempting to replace the original Bando belt with the same but was unable to find one of the same spec here in the UK. The Bando I got which was claimed to be the correct length for the Peugeot was too short. The Naraku belt is the same outside circumference as the Dayco belt I also bought but it works slightly better due to having a narrower belt depth, roughly 9mm as opposed to 10. The Naraku which is currently on the scooter works reasoably well and has brought cruising speed up to the 7300 maximum torque rpm, but the lowest ratio is slightly too high in that it is ok setting off on the flat or down hill, but struggles on hill starts. Living in Cumbria, The Lake District area, there are plenty of hills. It is my understanding that if the belt were longer it would have a lower initial gear, but the revs would probably also drop at cruising speed. You would think that belt manufacturers would be able to standardise measurements!! I have only been familiar with cvt for about a year now, but it seems that the main varables are, roller weight, belt length, belt width, spring constant for the clutch spring and spring constant for the clutch shoes. Assuming of course that the variator and clutch pulleys are the standard stock size! So a large amount of variability involved!
@@truthseeker104 I agree. It would make things easier if belts measured to the same specs. Not sure why it's not that way.
Regarding variables, there are more. Depends how deep you go. You also have to think about things like drive face angles and torque driver pathway angles when you go beyond the stock CVT. Things like how drive ratio effects clutch operation are also good to know, so remember that if you change how the belt rides at idle, it will drive the clutch at a different speed.
@@49ccscoot Yes it seems that the deeper you dig, the more complicated it becomes! A Malossi belt arrived which is the same as the original Bando 723 -17.5 -30 and yet it is roughly 6mm longer than the Naraku or Dayco! I fitted it today and tested it, it seems to be a good compromise as I now have my low gear back but it also maintains a good high torque rpm of about 7100 to 7300 whilst cruising and maintains that on hills, which is even better! The actual belt depth is relatively narrow it is closer to the drive boss in lowest gear. So I am satisfied with its performance, even got some stickers with the belt! 6g rollers seem to be a good compromise the originals were probably about 5.8g...so far so good. I guess overall if you do more and more work on these variators you would get a feel for performance characteristics for each capacity engine. Unlike a gearbox it seems more of an art than a science. One thing I have found is the difficulty in obtaining specifications for parts, I need some needle bearings for the clutch but don't know how to measure these bearings or find an equivalent cartridge. The Peugeot Kisbee has essentially a GY6 QMB engine as far as I understand it but some of the additional parts seem to have been designed specifically by Peugeot but generally standard GY6 parts fit. Anyway thanks for your help, it is very much appreciated.
@@truthseeker104 Look for numbers on the bearing before you try to measure. They may not be a standard bearing that is everywhere, but that will usually get you what you need. If not, measure OD and length. For the ID, it's easier to measure the OD of the shaft that it fits.
Use havier rollers for.top.speed
Where do i need to go to give you a good race im in richnond va
I'm on the Eastern Shore of MD.
What if you flipped the belt inside out?!!
The scooter would either go backwards or levitate.
Hi
i have a taotao powermax vip 150cc , i paid $650 NIB , 1st motor oil change after 25,000 miles. factory transmission gear oil, brakes, bulbs, belt , et cetera. only 2 problems with these and easy to fix. the side plastics break, solution is to ziptie a piece of plywood strip beneath the seat over the crossbar _ 2 : muffler mounts break , solution take muffler off have it welded at all the points, swingarm, the top and lower engine brackets. . use blue loctite when putting back on except at the studs . 6 years on a 50cc plate . stripped a stud bolt but have another bike :) why buy a slow 50cc and put $ into it ? once you change the cc's it is no longer a 50cc and it is a motorcycle and if you get caught its the same as being on a 150cc
I'm guessing you meant 2,500 miles, not 25,000. I have a TMAX 500 and a motorcycle license so I have something more sensible. It has 27,000 miles on the original belt so far. The thing is, I enjoy the small two-stroke. Everyone has their thing, and this is what makes me forget life's troubles for a while.
I have actually went to the MVA and told them about my modified scooter and tried to get a motorcycle plate for it on multiple occasions in the past. Their answer was "once a 50, always a 50".
@@49ccscoot Over 25,000 Miles . i don'r want a loud 2-stroke
@@carmineredd1198 Oil change intervals for a GY6 150 should be more like 500-2,000 miles. Many people are lucky if their GY6 lasts half that long with regular oil changes, let alone oil changes after 25,000 miles. I had one, with motorcycle tags. Just didn't do it for me. To each their own. That's why they don't just sell one two-wheeler.
@@49ccscoot i tag it as a 50cc, i have a 1956 Harley panhead softail prnt.sc/u5qooi but i thought it inappropro to mention it in a 50cc article , to each his own indeed
I have a complete cpi engine how much is it worth?
They go for varied rates. I've seen whole scooters go for $50 and engines alone go for hundreds. ?
i think you need to upgrade your engine in order to see the result of longer belt
My scooter will only run on full throttle. And dies when I try to have it idle ( but I'm pretty sure its because I need new jets!!?????!! But even at full throttle. My drive/rear wheel doesn't want to move. But it's not locked in place!!! And I need my scooter to get to work. So cam you please help me out.
Broken belt is the most common cause of the rear wheel not moving. If the belt is fine, then you would need to inspect the clutch and clutch bell to be sure they are able to engage with each other. Make sure the pulleys are turning. When you spin the clutch bell, the rear wheel should rotate. If not, something is wrong in the gearbox/shafts.
For the only running at WOT; make sure the pilot jet isn't clogged, clean the whole carb, and inspect everything.
@@49ccscoot yea I did check that. And the wheel rotates. And the belt "looks fine" this is why I can't figure it out! I've done enough work on scooters but I've never had this happen. But could it be cause of the clutch springs? Or the rpm spring/ engaging spring. That's what I was taught it was called. But anyway. It forest make sense to me. I usually don't have a problem figuring things out. But yea
@@49ccscoot And thank you for replying. And so fast. I've asked allot of people questions and your the 1 st to respond. And fast. So thank you. And you really do make it easier to understand. Than the guy that taught me! Keep up the great work mydude!🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@49ccscoot And my scooter only runs on full throttle. But doesn't seem at full power!??! But I think its the jets? It starts when I give it throttle. But I have to keep giving it throttle. It won't idle. It just dies. That's should be cause of the jets. Right? It's the only thing I haven't looked at yet.
@@michaelbearse4733 It could be other things if it dies without throttle, but I'd check the pilot jet and clean the carb first.
Don't worry about too much at once with the rear wheel. Simple stuff. If the clutch bell rotates the rear wheel, the gearbox shouldn't be the cause, so look to clutch and CVT. If the wheel doesn't rotate when the bell spins, check out the gearbox. Start there and you'll begin to narrow it down.
Use bando japan belts. Will last a lot longer than mallosi.
I've looked briefly for those in a suitable size, but they don't put out charts of belts (or I don't see them) like Malossi.
What brand do non clone minarellis use? Yamaha oe should be good
@@MrGrikjames I used Bando belts with the original CVT setup and they worked pretty well for me. I've always preferred Bando over others that I've tried. Those are 788 17 28 though, so not good for the OR. If they made something like an 815-820 x 17-17.5 x 28-30 I'd gladly try it.
i say its better it keeps ur rpm lower ... less engine wear ...
How is a drive belt only lasting you 200 miles?. That would cost more then driving a car eventually. I've got a 2006 150cc gy6 atv for my kids that has probably 100hrs on the new belt i ordered from china and it's still like new. It hauls my 6ft2 230lb ass thru mud holes and I've never smoked a belt.
I had 28,000 miles on my TMAX before I swapped the belt and it didn't even have to be done at that point. Different machines though. This scoot is bound to be harder on belts than your average GY6 since it makes considerably more power and revs much higher. That said, I have a problem. I have been over the CVT with cleanings and checks many times and there is nothing obvious to me. It did the same thing on other engine combos, even with a different version of the OR CVT and on different cases. Belts are ridiculously expensive every 100-200 miles.
I've been wondering if I'm just too heavy for the abuse that I give it. I'm 300lb. I've got a totally different engine setup and a friend that's 180lb that has the exact same thing. I'm hoping to see how it does. If it barely wears like his, then something must be up with this.
Why are you blowing belts at that lower mileage? I already 300 on mine and now that scares me being new to scooters! Do you just drive rough and hard?
My guess is 20HP, 14,000RPM, 300lb rider that likes to take off. Possibly some issue with the CVT. It's not normal at all.
Where can I get these parts brother
scootertuning.ca
What’s it like when the cvt case bearing not good
Usually I notice a lot of noise before anything else.
Ok maybe this is a better description of my jog problem.. it almost sounds like it reving out in 2nd gear when I full throttle it. And a slight hesitation at take off
Like reving out when you do it on a motorcycle and it starts to make a stuttering noise
@@nastynatesscooters9896 That doesn't sound like a bad bearing. It sounds like you have an issue that is causing high RPM. Worn belt, pulley problems, gear oil or other fluid getting onto pulleys...
You are right I’ve rebuilt many minerallis and just figured the roller weight size and put 7 gram weights in.. then I took 3 11 g switched them out. It was little slower but it worked! Thanks
Is a stock belt 750mm?
For my scoot the stock belt was a 788 17 28.
What is the cylinder?
TPR 86cc. There's a whole series of videos about the setup :
ua-cam.com/play/PLm3-Rt5jsoluxD_r--k5i85EP1yZ-EjWT.html
what about belt width?? does it matter??
Yes. Belt width is an important factor for speed and acceleration. You have to find what's right, because there is a range that works. You can make corrections for belt width to some degree with shimming or modifying the drive boss, but the rear pulley has to be considered as well and it is not so easily modified/adjusted to accommodate different belt widths. I usually find that there's roughly a 1mm "sweet spot" for what works best. For example 16.5-17.5mm may work well for me, but change in either direction from there may degrade performance substantially on one or both ends of the acceleration and performance spectrum.
@@49ccscoot thanks for the reply...i realized on my aerox 155... when using the oem belt i have a sluggish take off but very good top end.. on the other hand... when i installed the malossi X belt...which is a 1mm wider... i gained bottom end and lost topspeed... although everyone says the opposite should happen...whats ur take on that?
@@abdallahbidawy2211 I usually experience the opposite as others have told you. The wider belts are more typically able to get better travel outward in the variator, for better speed. If too wide, it could restrict travel in the rear pulley though. At idle, the wide belt often sits too far outward in the variator and then pulls the belt inward in the rear pulley, which gives a poor takeoff ratio. If you had aftermarket pulleys with a stock belt, perhaps they were designed for the wider belt and/or different length and that is contributing.