Chain Drive vs Belt Drive vs Shaft Drive in Motorcycles | Which is Better?
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Chain, Belt, or Shaft Drive in Motorcycles has its own ups and downs, but which is the best drivetrain among these three?
Reference (Please Check out this channel also):
Which Drivetrain Is Best? [Motorcyclist Magazine]: • Motorcycle Chain Vs. B...
In this video, we'll discuss Which is Better? Let's find out: chain Drive vs Belt Drive vs Shaft Drive in Motorcycles.
Chain Drive: The Chain drive requires two sprockets, one on the transmission's output shaft and the other on the wheel. The sprocket size differs depending on the engine’s power and torque output.
Belt Drive: The Belt Drive is the same as the chain drive; instead of a chain, this uses two pulleys. One on the engine's output shaft and the other on the wheel. A belt connects both pulleys, and it snugly fits on the grooves.
Shaft Drive: The engine runs the main shaft inside the transmission, and the output shaft is connected to a propeller shaft. The propeller shaft runs the rear wheel by transferring the rotation via a 90-degree differential. For you to know, Bevel gears are used in a motorcycle differential.
-------Content---------
00:00 - What is Drivetrain?
01:10 - Chain Drive
02:29 - Disadvantages of Chain Drive
02:59 - Belt Drive
03:54 - Advantages of Belt Drive
04:25 - Disadvantages of Belt Drive
05:07 - Shaft Drive
07:42 - Wrap Up
#chaindrive #beltdrive #shaftdrive
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I own all 3 types. Break a chain,repair and keep going. Break a belt not as easy a fix, but still not bad. Break the shaft drive and you're in for a long fix. It's rare but does happen. And it's the most expensive fix of the 3.
How to earn money easily
Or spend money easily.....
Not entirely accurate, I have bikes with all three systems and have had failures of all three over the 50 plus years I've been riding. If a shaft drive fails it's expensive and inconvenient but usually nothing more. If a belt fails it's again a nuisance but costs very little to fix. If a chain fails you can SOMETIMES get away with a road side fix but I've had other instances on high performance bikes where the chain has parted and entered the engine completely destroying the primary drive. I've never had that level of damage from a belt or shaft.
Just had to replace the axle on my r1200gs it failed after 95k km so it went a while but i did it myself and just the parts already cost €750 :(
The shaft drive also jack up when you hit this the gas . Something sport riders don't like .
Always shaft driven for me ... Zero maintenance needed. Love it.
I love the Shaft Drive but not the bike lift up under Acceleration, unless they got it fixed only dealt with older systems early 80s
"Totally maintenance free"
Shows a video of oil change.
Yeah.. hahah
Oil cost 10k
🤣🤣🤣
That oil cost less than $6 for a quart and it’ll last 3-5 years depending of how much oil you need and how frequent you change the oil. Btw, to change it, you just drain it from plug and fill (3~6ounces?). This is as cheap maintenance as anything goes. I changed my oil at 6000 miles (roughly 3-4 years). Bought a new quart. You could probably ride it longer as no contamination gets in there or use synthetic oil to last longer.
Yeah 🤣
As a Honda NTV driver, I can say that nothing beats a HQ shaft-drive system. Reliable, robust and always clean 👍
Shaft drive system is totally maintenance free while showing the oil being changed on one.
Regular maintenance is actually mandatory on them, if you don't maintain it you're gonna have problems. VFR 1200 taught me all i needed to know about this system.
They said chain drive power loss is only 1-4%, when 10% is the average. Definitely non English speaker produced video.
Hehe
@@freebehindbars8654 A spiral bevel gear is a really high efficiency at around 98% as well.
@@omnipotent87 Not true. Shaft drives take the force a complete 90 degrees, even with the best gear design it falls short of what a chain provides in efficiency. Common knowledge.
Missed belt vs chain trade off: while a belt is more expensive itself to replace, during catastrophic failure a belt will simply zip away with the rider only noticing a complete loss of power transmission, while a chain can both jam between the sprocket and swing arm instantly locking the rear wheel and can also be flung forward into the transmission/engine/drive sprocket requiring a complete rebuild or engine/transmission replacement. This is an important difference as how a system operates at its limits and at failure can have lethal consequences.
I’ve personally seen all three modes of failure, and had both a locked rear wheel in a turn from a broken chain and a lost belt at highway speed. While a chain can simply fall away if it breaks in the right location every instance I’ve seen has resulted in a high speed projectile thrown either behind the bike or into some portion of it (or getting jammed between a sprocket and swingarm). A shaft drive, on the other hand, only fails catastrophically when the front u-joint disconnects and if the design is otherwise unsupported it becomes an ersatz pole vault flinging the entire rear of the bike into the air, much like a disconnected drive shaft can do on an automobile. While this essentially only occurs due to direct damage it is still a more dangerous failure mode than a belt.
Didn't you watch the video, belt has high transferred power loss and chain has very little transferred power loss
@@johnadams3038 Sorry John, I’m not following your point. It’s accurate to say that when both are in good condition then chains have less wasted energy, but I’m not seeing how that’s germane to their catastrophic failure modes. Can you close that loop for me so I can understand what you’re getting at? Thanks.
@@johnadams3038 That's actually no longer true except at low power. Belts have gotten a lot better over time, and their friction loss is near constant. Belts however have frictional losses that increase as speed increases. So at a low output, a chain may have a 1.5% frictional loss, while the belt would be 3%. But at a high output, the chain might be 3%, and the belt will be 3%. I can send you links to actual data. Anyway the 6-9% losses of belts are numbers from the 80s, belts made a lot of progress in the last 20 years and are pretty much on par with chains in terms of power losses when actually riding.
@@andychow5509 It should be true because majority of bikes and all super sport bikes utilize chain drive. So there has to be a reason.
@@johnadams3038 Yea the reason is simple I want a hog the same as my grandads hog. Cogged belts are far superior if you look at all the latest research and not the 1980s crap this computer voice is spewing.....Mmmmm can silicon chips spew?
I have owned all 3. No checking belts for cracks, or oiling chains and buying new ones, the shaft drive is perfect.
Oh no I spend 30 seconds looking at a belt while I change my oil and do proper maintenance on my motorcycle every other ride 🤦♂️. They aren’t cars they are much more needy. If it’s to much of a hassle to check it every now and then why even own one
@@alexchristian5399 Lol my Goldwing has a longer oil change interval than my pickup. It is up to the rider to choose what kind of bike they want. I like to explore and go to distant places so the Goldwing made a lot of sense just so happens that it doesn't require me to check or change something every time I want to mount it. So stop being some elitist that is telling someone to not own a motorcycle for saying they prefer to have shaft drive because it is one less thing to check.
@@KoaGuy lol I said it was unrealistic to expect a motorcycle to be easy to maintain. And you are flat out wrong. Not everyone has 30k to drop on a motorcycle like the fucking gold wing. I’m not trying to gate keep I’m calling it moronic to buy a motorcycle and then complain about having to do maintenance
@@alexchristian5399 But that's the thing no one here is complaining about doing maintenance. This guy choose to have a shaft driven bike because he doesn't have to deal with checking a chain or belt. It's their choice to choose the ride they want. What's unrealistic is someone who would buy a motorcycle based off your opinion. You are gate keeping. So don't back track and also not everyone is buying a brand new loaded Goldwing many are used and in great condition for cheap, and many buy used.
@@alexchristian5399 what is your malfunction lol?
OP litterally just stated that the shaft drive is perfect for him based on the fact that it is the most "low maintenance" solution.
How do you get worked up by such a comment??
As someone who rides a 1984 Honda VF700C with a shaft drive, I can fully say. They are nice since I don't have to worry about maintenance as much.
84 1100 and that is one of the best parts of a magna and is quite and smooth
@@78gbody they are a beauty when you treat them nicely, hamfist the throttle like a newb and they will show you a different personality.
@@Shawn_the_Protogen very true words. and there alot of bike for how they act
84 magna was my first bike! Loved that bike, kinda wish I still had it. The only thing I changed on it was the handle bars and I rode the shot out of it!
@@murray8958 that was my major upgrade I did when I retrofitted mine. I put ATV bars on mine then proceeded to swap out all the lights with new LEDs for safety, including adding some.
As long as you ensure it's properly adjusted every once in a blue moon, a belt is a lifetime part. Really, the price difference is not an issue for most riders because they will never have to buy one. Of the handful of belts I've installed for my customers, one was damaged by gravel and the others weren't aligned properly, never seen one just wear out. Chains were a daily thing, also saw quite a few engine cases broken by broken chains and countershaft seals and bearings ruined by worn out chains with tight spots. In fact, I believe I've repaired more bikes that were broken by their chains than I've replaced belts. For what it's worth.
I've never done belt drives, just the chain and shaft. And the shaft wins it for me.
I prefer the shaft system despite its cost and its higher weight because it is the most reliable and the most robust and its requires a a clean and minimum maintenance. I have it on my Honda VFR 1200 and I am able to compare it with the chain drive present on my previous VFR 800. Very nice video with a relevant analysis of the characteristics of each transmission system. Many thanks.
Question how about those closed chain system thingy like in the honda super cub ?
@@LoneliestDog I am not familiar with such transmission system which appears to be more or less appropriate for smaller engine than the engine implemented within the VFR 800 which is a
sport bike. As it is well analysed in this video, the chain transmission system remains the most appropriate to sport bikes with high performance engine, but of course the system requires an appropriate maintenance and a regular cleaning.
@@LoneliestDog it’s still a chain, just has a cover.
I agree with shaft being king. I’m happy to sacrifice a little efficiency for the reliability. My daily driver still has a chain, but my old gl1100 has a shaft.
F*** I love when people get on here that know nothing about Motorcycles all mechanical friction or Power lost through drivetrain and stayed there bike completely goes against the laws of physics and is different every other bike because I can tell you right now shaft drive is nothing but problems noise and expense belt drive is a nice and quiet minimal power loss through drivetrain and at the very top of the list the chain drive is the best system or is wiping the f****** thing over with an oily rag too much maintenance for you
@@mymadness299 the shaft on my 75k mile goldwing is absolutely fine.. no noise, no leaks, no problems. I do not care about the efficiency loss and upkeep doesn’t bother me.. it’s about reliability for me. Aside from the occasional lube, the shaft is just gonna keep going. I could set off on a cross country trip tomorrow and never think about, or deal with the failure that may occur with a chain. Chains last for a while.. 15k on my daily driver but it’s also getting a little tired and ive got another ready to go. Your opinions don’t invalidate other’s
I have lubed and cleaned my 1st bike's chain regularly, and replaced the chain/sporket set at 15.000km.
I have rarely lubed my second bike's chain and nearly never cleaned. Again replaced the set at 15.000 km.
Finally I switched to shaft drive. Despite the losses of power in transmission, I love its being maintenance free.
If you want consistent acceleration then the drive shaft is the way to go. If you want more power then a chain is better, but it does not behave the same each time you accelerate. Chains are more fun and less predictable than drive shafts.
You are right
@Ziggy Zig Yes I can tell the difference between the two.
@Ziggy Zig Maybe the dyno is not sensitive enough to notice. My FZR 600 and FZ-09 chain bikes both have less consistent acceleration than my vStar 650 had which has a drive shaft. Maybe the tire quality is the actual cause. The Z rated tires on the 2 crotch rockets might allow for more tire spin.
😂😂😂😂😂
@Ziggy Zig A good bike rider can tell the diff between a cold chain and a warmed up one.
I had a 1984 Honda V65 Sabre shaft drive. Changing 5 fluid ounces of 90 weight gear oil was yearly maintenance. It took hard beatings and high mph. My bike was A FAST ACCELERATING ROCKET.
The Sabre a 'rocket'? In it's time and in your memory. But saying that in 2021?
He did say it was, not that it is in this day
@@arturama8581 In 1986, at Baylands race track, Jay Gleason on a standard 1200 Vmax got a standing 1/4 mile in 9 secs, the V65 was not far behind that, not alot of progress has been made in the years between on standard production bikes
One HUGE difference ( covered by a couple others but not the author ) between chain and shaft for sport riding :
While leaning into a turn and applying moderate throttle a chain driven bike will tend to "SQUAT" at the rear due to the physics of the top of the chain pulling force on the top of the rear sprocket ... which, in turn, compresses the rear shock ... which, in turn, lowers the center of gravity mid-turn.
Not the case on a shaft driven bike. The physics of the ring & pinion gearset ( at the rear wheel ) demands the pinion gear is attempting to climb UPWARDS on the ring gear ... which, in turn, makes the bike RISE AT THE REAR.
It's a strange feeling if you are used to feeling a SQUAT and get a RISE when you apply a heap of throttle. But it's just physics.
I also noticed right away that a belt driven has no buffer between acceleration and down throttle....in other words....(on a 1000cc touring bike), when I accelerated quickly and then suddenly decelerated the rear tire "chirped"......not good at ALL during cornering.
I agree as my Ducati is a chain drive and my BMWR1100RT is shaft I ride 1 of the two at least 6 days a week .the shaft drive is easier to get to clean into a right hand corner than left due to the rotation of the drive shaft
Ma man! You really know ur story SALUTE🖖
Im happy to see this comment. My dad told me this and kinda blew my mind, Im just getting into motor cycles and understanding this made me realize just how much every part matters. And how much they can effect the quality and comfort of a ride.
All 3 have their place. On my Harley, love the longevity of the belt. I put on way to many miles for a chain. On my KTM dual sport, obviously a chain. I have 2 sets of wheels with different sprockets and a chain for each set. I am not putting 15-20k miles on my KTM, so longevity is not a concern. Fine tuning the gearing by changing the front and rear sprockets is. Never owned a shaft driven bike, only have a few miles on a couple of them.
Shaft drive system rocks despite having some power loss.
Shaft for reliability.
I've been watching vids like this, I think my next bike might be a shaftie. This vid did nothing to discourage me.
Frouuo
Rather informative. I find it interesting that this video kinda leads you to decide what pros and cons you want to really go with.
I grew up on chain drives, but eventually got tired of the constant maintenance required, and switched to shaft drive.
I'll never go back to chain.
A chain is a piece of precision machinery, like a gearbox. If I suggested that a biker should remove the cover from his gearbox, let the oil run out, and then use the motorcycle, I'd be regarded as crazy! Yet that is exactly the situation with most motorcycle chains.
There are a very few motorcycles that have a fully enclosed chain, that runs in an oil bath, like a gearbox.
That is sanity!
Some years ago, I did a 21,000 mile, 45 state, tour of the USA, and chose a shaft drive Honda, ST1100 to do it with. Not one problem during the whole tour!
I hate to think what the difference would have been with a chain drive.
.
Most newer motorcycle chains nowadays are sealed. The lubricant is kept enclosed by o rings and don't need external lubrication. If used properly they will last the full useful life of the chain. Just don't use harsh solvents that could interfere with the rings. I love my old shaft drive cx500 but my newer cbr500 can run circles around it. Chains now are not like those of yesteryear. They require less maintenance and adjustment due to better engineering. A quick check before you go and you're off.
@@SophiepTran
The connection between the chain and the sprocket is still going to get drenched in water, salt and grit in winter, and dust/sand in summer.
So, it's still a lousy engineering solution, for just a little bit of extra speed, which will probably be very rarely used.
@@niklar55 Sure it will. But that's besides the argument. We were talking about the lubrication aspect of drive systems.
@@SophiepTran
The chain and the sprocket IS part of the drive system, and salt, grit and water will cause premature wear and failure.
So, its bad engineering.
.
@@niklar55 I still love my 88 cbr600
Honda 750 was so popular in the '70's, a company made a kit to enclose the final drive. Had rubber belows flex for up n downs. Oil in, dirt out. Nice long chain n sprocket life. Harley did the same thing back in the old days. Seems they always leaked and the styling experts didn't like it, but the idea is sound.
There's an automatic chain oiler kit available, manufactured in the UK. Kit consists of an oiler resiviour with flow rate adjuster, drip feeds oil onto chain via tiny tube. Keeps chain 100% clean, no oil spray onto back rim/tire. No more cleaning/lubricating chain. Highly recommended chain drive. 🖐🇦🇺
Buying link pls
Now you are just dripping oil all the time, everywhere you go.
@@jhoughjr1 ignoramus.
@@jamtin3977 a useful word indeed in current times.
You didn't mention that shaft drive usually, or always, allows the entire wheel to be removed, without interfering with the drive & suspension.
youtube forced me to watch this by recommending it everyday
For me, it's shaft drive for the win. I own a BMW which is my second one without any problems.
BMW has the best shaft system !
All 3 designs have a specific purpose and type of motorcycle they are generally used for.
I've experienced all of the different final drive types. For me, cruising the open highways I love my shaft drive. Reliable, very easy maint. and I'm on a larger V-Twin cruiser, so a little loss of power at the rear wheel really isn't that noticeable. It's not a sport or super sport.
The power loss claimed is not likely, a car barely has that much loss. That tiny shaft and very few gears would be under 10% loss and not that much higher than either a belt or chain, maybe 5% difference.
I much prefer chain drive generally speaking because of the flexibility to easily change sprockets. Also, with a centerstand (such as on my ZX-11), lubing the chain is easy (especially with the chain guard off). Chains also look very cool and can be downsized to shave weight. Pretty impressive how something that has to handle the full power of the bike only weighs a few pounds.
An additional advantage of chain / belt drive is that it cushions shock loading from the engine / transmission during hard acceleration.
You know, these guys are leaving out the option of using a hydraulic pump and motor. The nice thing about hydraulics is that you have a bypass valve, which serves as the transmission.
has it actually ever implemented into production vehicle? i have seen a cycle but never a motor bike with this tbh
i think it's the same principle of torque converter automatic gearbox. the drawback is the loss of efficiency due to liquid medium.
A Hydraulic system would have an efficiency of probably 5% and be slow as fuck
@@amaljerry5373 Yes. Check Honda DN (Human Friendly Transmission). No longer in production but good used DNs can be found.
sure miss my 83 Gold Wing and it's shaft drive !!
Vulcan 2000 is a fine bike, but that belt has been replaced three times already
Thank you so much for explaining the three drive systems. Although, I was aware about the chain drive and belt drive system. Shaft drive was altogether a new piece of technology for me! 🏍️
Hahaha, My Two Honda VT500C Shadows form 1984 were Shaft Drive, and oh boy were those nice Bikes.
My last Goldwing had over 287,000 miles before I sold it. I have owned three Goldwings. Two-up pulling an N-Line trailer for much of those miles...much of my life. Properly maintained drive shafts last forever.
When you say "Sprockets" I totally love it
Some other things to consider is unsprung weight and the shaft drive adds negatively in this regard. Also you have to control the shaft tendency to lift the rear suspension on hard acceleration can be spooky on a curve or cornering. You do this by springing it stiffer /rough ride
Shaft drive does need a special grease not totally maintenance free.
I've had all three types of drives and IMO non really stand above the rest as far as overall performance
.My rides over the years,
Triumph Rocket3 and Goldwing are shaft and around 5 other Hondas with chain .
Harley Superglide with belt ....was leery of a belt drive but it has 30,000 miles on the same belt. very quiet drive/clean light weight
Chains can handle more power than a belt but they are messy and stretch and wear out. Noisy/messy /heavier than belt
Shaft are strongest but heaviest and with high power motors need a stiffer suspension . Rough ride/handling quirks with suspension loading and unloading.
Yes I thougth the same about belt drive aswell, until i got a harley sportster, its way cleaner then a chain, but not as clouchy as a driveshaft, best of both in my opinion
I couldn't tell you what the hell you're talkin about because everytime I twist the throttle on my shaft drive Honda all I see are people in my mirrors chains rubber bands belts whatever you want to call them they're all outdated yesterday's bullshit
@@joelombardi5235 It's not only about speed, the way torque gets tranferred through the driveline just feels smooth with belt drive, the reason electric bikes also have this because it is quiter then a chain.
That being sad, chain wil put any drive shaft of equal power in the mirror, why? because a shaft drive has a lower power transfer efficiency then a chain, even lower than a belt drive.
I had an old yamaha dragstar, maybe newer ones have improved, the fact is you NEED play in you splines, which maybe causes the clunky feeling when riding
@@joelombardi5235 Maybe they didn't twist throttle as you did or just your bike more powerfull regardless off drivetrain system? your comment feels cringy ana fanboyish. And video literally said, shaft lose %22-25 power.
"Some other things to consider is unsprung weight and the shaft drive adds negatively in this regard." - true, but what's not being said is in the new bikes (K series Beemers etc.) the shaft is also the integral swing-arm, and also being alloy, the weight differential isn't as extreme as many like to think.
Fails to mention the cvt belt drives on the majority of scooters. Totally different to the toothed belt system. Very simple and low maintenance.
Also, I have a Yamaha Townmate T80. 80ccs and shaft drive. It's brilliant.
I have an Icebear Rocket 50cc that has the belt driven cvt. They don't seem to break often, and if they do its cheap to replace. Also easy enough to DIY. I suppose the performance in scooters is helped with it being more enclosed.
@@jhoughjr1 it is
All info I knew little about and am now more educated and am thankful for have been enlightened.
Have them all. Depends on needs. Of all three if I had to pick only one, shaft drive. Though different applications are best for different set ups. My ADV Yamaha Super Tenere that sees mainly interstate touring and foul weather commuting shaft drive rocks. No fiddling or time wasted lubing and adjusting while touring and not affected by weather and offroad. Occasional oil changes only and sure simplifies tire changes.
Belt drive on my Harleys is nice on my Streetglide and Dyna. No maintenance and cleaning, though a hassle to replace em when you have to with pulling entire rear apart.
Chains on my Hayabusa and KTM is great for those applications. Hold up well to big HP and shock. Lighter weight and easy to change gearing.
My first motorcycle was a Yamaha 400cc I bought new in 1980. It had about 30,000 miles on it before it was stolen in 1983. My next bike was an 85 Honda 650 Nighthawk with shaft drive. I had it for a short period of time and sold it back to the dealer because of what I described as a centrifugal effect. When I would ride straight, the handlebars felt like they were rolling in my hands and when I would lean down into a turn, it felt like the bike was trying to upright itself. I could only think it was caused because the wheels and engine were turning one rotational direction and the shaft was turning 90 degrees from them.
Thats interesting, it might be the shaft torque adding another source of gyroscopic force. Does it feel like leaning to one side is easier than the other? The self righting when leaning could be due to suspension geometry too. Had a Yamaha two stroke racing moped that does that but only at extreme lean angles, it was hilarious fun to scrape the pegs and recover safely every time.
probably more to do with the center of mass and precise geometry of the bike governing its stability rather than the drive shaft. Driveshaft is really really low moment of inertia compared to the wheels. The same bike with a chain would probably still annoy you exactly the same amount.
I've owned bikes with chain drive, and with shaft drive. I agree that each system, under the right conditions, provides reliable power delivery. For the open road, my shaft drive Concours, for off road fun, my chain drive DRZ 400.
I have been riding for over 35 years and motocross raced for 20 of it .
I totally agree .
My BMWR1100RT is shaft and love it. But my Cagiva elephant is chain drive .
I just don't think a shaft drive would do well in a off road environment.
@@powertothebauer296 yes the BMW Paris to Dakar was a shaft drive.
But I suspect that they ran higher than normal grade ujoints in it as well as sealing everything up very well.
But what would concern me would be the long term effects of sand and water getting to the drive line and the rubber in between the inner and outer drive shafts deteriorating and having a drive shaft failure.
Having owned and ridden all 3 over the past 46 years, shaft wins hands down, unless it's a dirt bike (or a BMW) My bought new 2002 Kawasaki Vulcan 750 has 119K miles on it and the shaft drive has never caused any problems. Just change the oil in it once in a while. Shaft drive bikes also have a HUGE advantage when it comes to rear wheel alignment. The wheel can only go on one way, so there is no alignment to deal with, and nothing ever needs to be adjusted. It is sealed and protected from dirt, water, mud, whatever you ride through. Sadly shaft drives are so expensive you don't see many of them anymore, manufacturers are cutting corners to save money.
The next best thing is an O or X ring chain. They last a long time, and don't need to be lubricated or adjusted nearly as often as old school chains, they are easy to work on, and you can usually change the gearing by replacing sprockets.
The last and by far the worst is belt drive. I have a belt drive Harley, and after trying for three days to get both the belt tension set right AND the rear wheel aligned, I gave up and took it to a local independent Harley shop (NOT a dealer) They told me it takes TWO people to do it right. And while a chain will tolerate a slight amount of rear wheel misalignment, a belt will not. It has no sideways flex, and the slightest amount of misalignment will grind it up. There is also the problem of getting a small rock or piece of gravel between the pulley and belt. That is usually no big deal with a chain, the steel chain and sprocket will simply crush it. But with a belt drive, it can destroy both the belt and pulley. I am planning on doing a chain drive conversion on my Harley. Belt drive SUCKS.
Single sided swingarm with chain could be good then
Agree with you that shaft drive on a powerful enough bike is best. Did you have bad experience with BMW shaft drive?
As a BMW mechanic I only see very rare occasions of a worn out drive shaft driven bike.
FYI - you do NOT need 2 people to align and tension a belt, but (and you already knew this was coming) you do need the bike held upright on either a center stand (which Harleys only ever have as aftermarket items, and that rarely) or an appropriate lift. Note that you don’t need the bike in the air - a full size lift with handlebar tie downs and a wheel chock works fine so long as the bike is in neutral.
While I’ve never seriously ridden a shaft drive (though I came really close to buying one a decade ago), I have just over 70k miles on my ZX6 (chain, almost instantly converted to an x-ring) and am about to top 100k miles on my Harley (belt) a major difference to me has always been the feel. Because the belt stretches ever so slightly it takes some of the jerkiness away (though in fairness that could also be the rubber dampeners Harley puts between the driven pulley and the wheel itself). In a cruiser or touring bike this is a huge benefit as it allows you to simply glide around relying on the engine torque to see you through, while you’d downshift on a sport bike to do the same. For those who don’t ride both: on a sport bike if you don’t stay in its power band you effectively have no power, and lugging the engine results in you slowing down as you aren’t generating enough power to keep moving, while on a large touring bike you can indeed lug the engine as it still has sufficient torque even at low rpm’s to generate the power needed to accelerate. For the easiest comparison: try accelerating from a stop in 3rd gear or higher - any big twin Harley can do this without stalling, while essentially no sport bike can (exception: liter bikes and up, and only by revving the engine and dropping the clutch) - these machines are just designed for completely different purposes.
@@robertkb64 I was unable to get the belt tension adjusted and the rear wheel lined up at the same time because the axle nut has to be loose to adjust the belt tension. When I got the belt tension right (and yes I have the H-D tension 10 pound tension gauge) the wheel was out of alignment (I also have the Motion Pro alignment tool that checks the distance between the dimple in the swing arm pivot and the rear axle) After getting the wheel back in alignment, the belt tension was off. I went back and forth several times and finally gave up. I don't have a lift, or room for one. I have never seen a Harley with a centerstand. But I have never had any problem adjusting a chain while keeping the wheel in alignment on bikes without centerstands.
The boxer engine in my BMW R nineT is phenomenal. Fast, torquey, and smooooth.
Very nice to use shaft drive, its very comfortable on me drive a motorcycle in a long distance travel.
The power loss for a shaft drive is closer to 7% than "20 to 25 % of the power". Belt drives are adversely effected by rocks, sand and gravel and are ONLY recommended for paved roads. The regular maintainance for shaft drived is oil changes, for roller chain it replacment of chain and sprockets the time between replacment can vary 3:1 depending on road, of off-road use.
I have a belt thats more than 20 years old now and i never touched nor maintained it and its got close to 150k miles. In my opinion if you're a cruiser guy mostly on paved roads, belt is the best. For adventure guys the best is shaft or chain. For performance ofcourse chain. My belt also had 20k plus miles off road experience and it never let me down. Oh and i turned my bike into a bobber the moment i acquired it so it doesn't have a belt guard to protect it from rocks. I swear for the past 20 years I've been using that bike i never touched it nor worry about it. The only time i had to touch it was when changing tires for final adjustment thats it! Fuckin real maintenance free compared to my other bike with a chain.
the power loss for a chain is 99% when the chain starts jumping teeth
and 100% when the chain breaks
Unless you are riding with the throttle WFO ALL THE TIME what do you care about power loss?! Cant afford gasoline for your MC?!
@@kenwittlief255 : If your range on a tank is say 200 miles, a 5% power loss is 10 miles, or a 3 hour walk if you run out of gas.
@@kenwittlief255 power loss means power loss... so you're slower than the next guy with less power loss... no biggie for cruising around other than range/fuel cost but when performance is of concern, it starts to matter.
I could not believe the "20 to 25%" claim. That would be a huge amount of power converted to heat loss. If you held your brake to rub off a quarter of the power generated, it wouldn't take long for the brake rotor to glow red hot. I've never noticed a drive shaft get hot. If you lost 25% of power, why, you'd need a radiator just for the drive shaft. I'll wager those numbers correspond to maximum torque or full throttle. A Goldwing cruising the interstate at steady state might be as low as 1% loss. That's my guess, I'm willing to be educated as I don't know.
That’s a point- I had a Suzuki 850 shaft drive for a few months in 1990 and I never did look into how the drive worked or how to service it. Then I moved to the US. After a year or so in the States my mother sent me a form from the UK Department of Transport- they wanted tax monies for my bike….which I had sold before leaving.
The registration is cut into two when the vehicle is sold- the seller sends in one part, the buyer send the other part. I sent my part, they dint send their’s.
We never had any Hell’s Angels in our area but we has….THE SCORPIONS. Hey, cash money, legal transaction, I’m off to America.
Nice machine, bog-standard, could go 100mph all day, even with the #2 spark plug barely hanging on in there. Some fool before me had tried to force in the wrong size plug or something.
I've had mostly chain driven bikes, but two that had belts, a Kawasaki Z20 Scorpion and a Harley 883 Sportster. Belt drive is the way to go, no mess, quiet and no maintenance. The chain came off a Honda NSF125 I was riding and locked up the rear wheel when it got jammed between the wheel and the swingarm. I had to be recovered by the AA. I knew a man who lost a couple of toes on his left foot, when his chain came off, whereas when the belt came off my Scorpion (under full acceleration from a standstill - I was showing off to some girls), it simply flew out the back onto the road, leaving me slightly embarrassed, but unhurt.
Some bicycles even use belts now.
I have a Honda VFR1200F....shaft drive but you really can't tell. Love it
Shaft drives often tend to engine break harder than chain/belt due the higher loss in transmission, so going off the gas in a low gear in corners is a no go.
not my experience
they brake as hard as the cylinders compression allows it
but then that's why you have a clutch: to adapt the engine acceleration or braking to your needs
@@Legi0n21 I agree - just saying the the friktion is lager so going of the gas in 3rd in a roundabout can cause skidding which I doesn't experience on chaindrives
@@lassechristmann2647 have you experienced such a skid?
I haven't. Not after relenting on the throttle.
but then again, I use the wet clutch to adjust the torque to my desire so perhaps I didn't do it the way you think of it.
Releasing the clutch swiftly after downshifting with the throttle all the way down on slippery pavement could in theory do what you say and I don't disagree that some people may do that but that's just bad form.
Engine braking is not that powerful. Most often it revs the engine rather than lock the wheel.
@@lassechristmann2647 Id think its not the friction but the inertia in the heavy shaft.
@@Legi0n21 I wouldn't expect engine breaking to lock a wheel
This is such a good explanation video! thank you. I didn't even realize there were different types of drive trains available for motorcycles.
Glad it was helpful!
Some bikes from former eastern block has chain drive completely sealed. Chain runs in its own cover, it's lubricated from the transmission shaft, where intentionally leaks motor oil. This system is very efficient and even common chain holds 40 000km before needing replacement. Only disadvantages are oil drops (oil slowly leaks from transmission) and it's really pain in the ass to replace chain and sprocket. After all, it's great thing and is referred as "shaft of the poors".
Exactly right. I have found that a drive chain on a motorcycle will last indefinitely if kept clean and well lubricated. I did it the hard way, by cleaning and lubing the chain every couple of hundred miles. But, I noticed that even a short ride on wet roads would lead to excessive chain wear because water sprayed onto the chain by the front wheel contained road grit that accumulated inside the chain rollers. A good chain box would keep the chain clean and dry, short of riding through deep water. If I ever own another chain drive motorcycle, I intend to build my own chain box for it.
Good overview for beginners, but I was hoping for a more detailed comparison from a channel with engineering in the name
In other words, in term of cost and performance, chain drive is the best. Maintenance is SOP on everything you own.
The video doesn't says that chain suffer from elongations.
I really miss oiling my chain, said no belt drive or shaft drive owner ever. 👍
No, I haven’t heard that from any belt or shaft drive owner, BUT have heard from chain drive owners, “Damn, I have to clean and oil the chain and adjust the chain before I go on the ride.”
Sprocket ⚙️size and changes is also a big part or motorcycle chain drives which was completely forgotten. I change mine for stunting and back for highway. The closer ratio to 1:1 the more torque. A 3:55 ratio is highway but a 4:11 is better for stunt drag or just low end torque.
Wow..thank you I had no idea that there were such a difference in all three of them..
thanks i learned something important today
Very welcome
I've owned all three. Prefer the belt overall. Then the shaft. Belt is the least cost for power and lasts just as long as the chain. The shaft drive is the strongest by far but tends to lift the back of the bike under acceleration (at least mine have) so not ideal for performance but fine for a cruiser. I would tell my buddy when his chain needed to be adjusted after riding down the highway near him. He had R6. I had XB12R
Hell yeah. Had a xb12s and 1125r.
I had a shaft and the whole bike feels like it jumps up when you crank on the gas. I will take a belt all day long. Chains are too much work and with no center stand on a Harley a pain in the ass to lube.
Been riding 25 years & had 3 bikes. 1st bike: chain, 2nd bike: belt, current bike: shaft.
Favorite? All good as long as you get out there and ride the thing.
The biggest disadvantage of the chain is no longer necessary though. The Regina HPE maintenace free chain does away with the constant lubing, that then gets slinged all over the rear of the bike. I have it now for 8k km and so far it delivers as promised. Not doing any maintenace on it at all. A complete game changer, since the choice of non-chain driven bikes is getting ever smaller. A lot of shaft drive models have disappeared from the stage and are not replaced.
Came here to mention there are now maintenance free chains. The system still experiences wear faster than a belt or drive though.
Lovely video! I have been using chain drive all life long and yeah it needs lubrication maybe every 1k kms.
Great point!
Wow, never new shaft drives waste 25% of power (sounds high) and belts 10%. Clearly, chain is the winner re performance and cost, but you pay for the maintenance, but its not bad if its a road bike.
His figures are over the top
Chains also have the disadvantage of stretching under load. A loose chain can cause the bike to fish-tail, so having it properly tensioned is important.
The chain's pressure on the back axle can pull the back wheel put of alignment, disturbing the handling of the bike.
With a shaft drive (or a CVT) misalignment is eliminated, so "technically" those alternatives are "safer".
Shaft drives tend to cause the back of the bike to rise under power, while chains cause the back end to drop. You can see this effect on drag bikes where the tyres are actually distorted by the power.
Bikes also have the tendency for the front end to dip under heavy braking, so having a shaft drive bike can have an effect like a see-saw if ridden aggressively. BMW has a special front end setup to counter this.
@@stanislausbrown8626 And say a rag gets spun around the wheel locking the rear wheel up, what happens with the rear wheel? Can it slip with the shaft drive to save the the biker?
@@arunvignesh7015
The shaft drive mechanism is all enclosed so a rag can’t get wrapped around the sprocket.
@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 Still connected to the wheel I hope?
Can i ask a question? What is sa difference between Crossplane inline four bikes compared to other inline 4 cylinder? What is the best or you recommend?
I had an 85 maxim and a 03 vstar… both shaft drive and i love them… they have alot of down sides but with some bikes idc to go fast….but how they load up the shocks is awesome because when you get in it the rear suspension squats and gets its… ya any 600 sportbike will out run it and a 400 sport bike will keep up but my 1100vstar was stomping 1300 harleys…. And it just feels fast even if it isn’t because it loads up that suspension and squats it which makes you feel fast… my dream bike is a harley break out… my second dream bike is a 1300 vstar… I’ll probably get another vstar before I could afford a harley
Anyone that says shaft drive dosen't require maintenance has never owned a BMW.
My sedan has a 17% parasitic power loss, and that's with 6 gears and AWD. I'd be shocked if parasitic loss on a shaft drive bike is any more than 10%. I'm no expert on belts this is just a hypothesis, but belts require a lot of tension to stay on the pulleys, I'd go as far as to say belt drives have more power drain than shaft. I dunno with all the UV joints tho. I'd love to hear from an expert on this
I’m of the same mind, I can’t believe that a shaft drive saps up to 25% of the power, thats 625-2500% more than a chain.
I have a belt drive (BMW) I understand it is not as efficient as a chain drive,
I'm an expert .. now you've heard from me ;^)
for every hour you ride, how much of that is with the throttle WFO?
when the throttle is not wide open, what do you care how much power is being lost?
at cruising speed nearly ALL your power is being lost to wind drag. SO WHAT?!
Rode a lot of belt-driven Harleys, and even a couple belt-driven BMW F650CS’s over the years. I’m now on a Yamaha MT-03, and if it had a belt drive too, it’d be as close to a perfect bike as I could imagine.
As a rider of a "85" Yamaha Maxima 700x I find the shaft drive much smoother of a ride, and don't have to worry about maintenance
The moot point is, re-inventing a wheel just for the sake of inventing is, colorful, fun & has certain bragging potential, but not efficient enough to scale up for common use.
I've had at least one of each, and my PERSONAL PREFERENCE is for shaft, with belt drive running a very close second, and drive shaft being a set-and-forget proposition, which I quite like. I'm a laid-back cruiser kind of rider, not a sport biker.
Well said Seth Tyrssen - me too with my Honda Goldwing! Very much enjoying & very much cherishing indeed! Love life with my HGW! Best wishes!
Excellent. Thankyou. I have little interest in bikes myself, but do like learning about the engineering.
I've had all of them, but I prefer belt drive
Both of my Harleys are chain drive and I never had any problems and they never let me down . They are made of good components . I went from belt to chain because did not want to be on the side of the road . For a stock Harley would be fine . I don't have to adjust my chain very often as it made of good high quality x ring chain
Don't you still need to remove the primary and clutch to get at the drive sprocket if replacing chain though, I have a belt drive Dyna and it's bloody expensive if you have to replace the belt and sprockets because of this.
I like apples, i have 2. I have never tried oranges or bananas. But apples are the best of the 3, i just know......because i bought 2 apples and eat them often. My opinion is based on a great set of experience and data collection. That is why iam smart.... because i know all my fruits.
@@mistersmith7391 lol?
@@mistersmith7391 lol Thats great!
I prefer shaft drive, Easy to maintenance more confidence for long range riding. 600km/day is my minimum on weekend trip.
I rode a ZX-14. Took me 50.000km (30.000+ miles) to wear the chain down. 50.000km / 600 = 80 days = 40 weekends = two years of your nice weather riding. My ZX14 was a 500lbs, 200bhp, 150+NM bike, doing 0-100kmh in some 2.5-3s, passing 200kmh in about 7.5s. I rode the whole year trough with it. Only took the car out when expecting hail or heavy snow. How about confidence for long range riding? And how long does it take to change a chain and sprockets? Chains wear, but you can easily see how much and change them in time. Now look at a driveshaft and tell me when it's going bust!
@@arturama8581 My previous bike was ZX14R also New piston, camshaft, big butterfly throttle with PC5+ignition module. Top speed on GPS was 333kmh officially.
It run so smooth I take it to every countries as i could. But after some of my open bike fellows(Haya H2 ZX14) were dead and some got disability, I prefer to ride long with moderate speed. That's why I switched to shaft drive bike, no need to bend down my body to take care of it anymore.
@@bigbird2523 That's fine and I am sorry for your losses. Not everyone can handle such bikes (you don't *have* to ride them hard) and then it's very wise to change to a more docile bike. A friend of mine did the same and I was about to change my bike to a GTR1400 cause of neck problems. But my point still stands. How is a chain and sprocket less reliable than a shaft?
@@arturama8581 When I was still own ZX14R I lubricated the chain every 600km during my trip and it was quite complicate coz I had to do it on my own. I lived in rain-forest country and I rode in every condition half of them in rain condition (be careful on your ZX14 ram air, water may spill in your air filter). I used the best xw-ring chain that i could find here and it could last long around 20,000km. When it became more rocket bike than road bike, another adventure bike was in my list. Before I go to big Adv like GS or Terene, I decided to buy brand new Suzuki VanVan200 as hobby bike(of course it was 520chain drive). I took it to the country side 300km long in rain and went into deep forrest alone. When I was trying to climb a very steep hill, chain was loosen out of sprocket and that bike fell on me. After I rescued myself I had to fix it on my own in the wood. Eventually I can ride back to my home with a loud chain noise along the way. I sold that bike away cheaply immediately. It was 1 month old and clocked around 800km on it.
Finally I sold my ZX14R coz I couldnt handle it safely anymore.
I aimed to shaft-drive for my bike. After I owned it for fully 4 years with zero problem. What I had to do just
1 ride.
2 fill the tank.
3 cosmetically clean it. no more oil spilled on my rear wheel.
The rest was hand over to mechanic as usual maintenance. My hand was clean and I was so happy with it.
I have a Moto Guzzi V7 which is shaft drive. What I like most about it is that I don't have to clean it all the time. Changing the oil in it is a breeze and doesn't need to be done all that often.
i have a chain driven DRZ400 and a shaft driven XJ750. shaft is cool cause it doesnt need any real maintenance besides some gear oil. but they are heavy, i think i prefer chain the most. they are simple, cheap and easy to replace. yea lubing it often can suck but it doesnt take long
I have seen alot of shaft drive failure very expensive to replace parts most of them are parted out. My Harley Davidson FXR has belt on it now. Going to switch it to chain drive.
only way to destroy a shaft drive is to wipe off the 60% moly lube from the factory when you change your rear tire
and replace it with axle grease. That will destroy the spines in about 3000 miles and cost you about $500 to repair
the moly lube from the factory is good for 100,000 miles if you just LEAVE IT ALONE
Why do you wanna change to chain from belt? Just curious?
@@frapp31 Read it again its the other way around, belt to chain, which is a mistake in my opinion
@@poolhemi yeah that's what I meant. I have only had chain drive but would love to have belt for my next bike.
6:19
At the top middle, that blue one,
It's my dad's Hero Honda CD Deluxe (Now it's renamed as Hero HF Deluxe) which gives about 160mpg
Never driven a Belt, but I switched from chain to shaft, and oh boy is the shaft a luxury. You just don't feel any load changes, especially at low RPM
I was just talking about this yesterday ! Wow was I wrong !! Great video , thanks for explanation !
They didn't cover how on shaft drive when you gas it the back end of motorcycle lifts up thus losing traction not good when cornering hard... JMO
hasn't happened to me in 15 years of riding shaft driven mcs
@@Legi0n21 you lying to yourself the backend always lifts up on a shaft drive motorcycle. it is kind of unnerving. shaft drive works on a big heavy gold wing the only way to go. as for a cruiser I prefer belt if it’s a dirtbike no other way to go but chain.
@@DCSPORTSTER lol, if you say so...
coming back to reality, on acceleration the front-end lifts. ALWAYS! It is the way the torque is applied to the rear wheel.
it works the same on motorcycles and cars.
You didn’t really answer which is better. I think it depends on what the individual rider needs: performance (speed), touring or low maintenance. I ride a 1984 Nighthawk S shaft drive and it’s had a few oil changes in its life. I’ve had it since 1988 and it’s still thriving. Btw, this is a CB750SC, a Canadian version with 84 hp. Hard to beat it when I go on 10 hour round trips and not worry about oil or chain adjustments.
Yes it depends
@@TheEngineersPost jobs
I have a cbr 600 f from the same year 😁👍🏻
In my country, after getting upbore and upstroke, its super easy to balance the reving at top rpm using chain system. Belt system ratio adjustment were non existent, need to alter gearboxes for it.
2 850Gs. I'd happily buy another. Love my sv650, and my next bike will probably be chain, but the shaft is just nice for a non~racer like me.
Why do they loose up ro 25 percent when a car totally including gerabox and clutch looses around 10%?
If you have a car that is rear wheel drive it'll have power loss of right around 15 to 25% depending of how heavy and how long the vehicle and where the engine is
They don't.. He's taking bollox
@@thakery5720 his figures are was off. If a shaft driven motorcycle makes 100 bhp he's claiming by the time it gets to the rear wheel it's 75bhp!!? Nonsense, at most it will loose 15bhp. So in fact I think it is you that would appear to be ill educated... You sanctimonious halfwit...
@@thakery5720 and what's even worse... YOU HA E A BIKE!!!! Please sell it and keep death and idiots off the road🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Depends on drivetrain layout? Plus, the torque in a car engine tends to be way more than a motorcycle I would think.
Good explanation of the difference between these three drive systems.
I really would like shaft drive even for a bicycle. No need for the regularly maintainance as with chain. The significantly worse efficiency is of course a true drawback. With a motorcycle and 100hp or more this is a non issue for practical use.
But when the normal operating power is 0,2-0,5hp it's more noticeable...
Chains are still the real ones
Started with a shaft on a 79 Yamaha XS1100, got a bike with a chain, CB500, even changed the rear sprocket and chain itself, but it felt like a pain in the ass. Now I'm back to shaft, R NineT, and no longer need to mess with gearing, or chain oil, or chain tension, etc.
Never rode a belt drive, but my favorite bike was a shaft drive, and were I still able to ride, that's the only way I'd go.
I had a chain drive Bicycle and it needed maintenance after season changes because it would expand and get loose.
So it would sometimes get detached and it wouldn't move.
It depends on the used.
Each has different purpose and design specification.
Chain has a lower thermal expansion compare to belt chain.
Which it can go longer time
But will consume maintenance on rust. And adjustment
The belt chain
Has the advantage of direct transmission. From staring point it can have a better acceleration.
Direct shaft or pto
It the number of gear linkages to the developed the power, which need good materials and expensives but it has more power compare to the both chain.
The chain expands the most and they do get hot after just a mile.
I got a Daily Ridden 1984 V65magna and all I do is Grease it when I replace tires and I love it... Low Matience ❤
You explained very nicely i hope you get to a million subscribers . Love your videos ✨
Wow, thank you!
I want to know the belt drive kit cost for my Royal enfield 500cc standerd
Rs.15000/- for belt drive system. But not worth. Bullet is too much heavy for belt. We used it but belt broke and teeth don't handle the weight of bike. Seller didn't take back the belt and money lost in experiment. These all are china import parts.
"Shaft drive" section fails to show any shaft driven vehicles..
In Motorcycles
Tenere............
I like shaft drive. I had a 1986 XJ 700x and it was smooth and very little maintenance. Now I have an fz6 that is chain drive. Unfortunately, a lot of bike use chain .
Love chains primarily becasue of the maintenance. Nothing like getting your hands dirty on a weekend cleaning and oiling your chain. The direct performance advantage is just that, added advantage.
Chain drives are real efficient, but lose around 10% on average, dyno proven.
Great explain
Shaft drive is the Best, drag raced & never had a problem
I was told by a engineer that chain drive is only more efficient than shaft when new after 750/1000 miles the chain is a lot less efficient than the shaft drive and the more miles you do the worse the chain becomes plus shaft stays at its same efficiency for life but the big downside is the weight of the shaft drive system not suitable for small engine bikes
Belt drive has the least amount of maintenance
You're right!! Compared with a chain, belts are cleaner, lighter, cheaper, smoother, quieter and require less maintenance.
Hi in INDIA some china manufacturer Introduced BELT system for Royal Enfied 500 cc . My friend buy the retro fitting set for bike. After fitting He gone 40 km away from his home for testing on Super Highway. But as he reached on Highway and powered the bike to test 0 to 140 km test the belt broke in 2 pcs and teeth wore out and belt become ribbon. He call the seller of belt. But they say we can't do any thing. He was in middle of No where with broken bike. He called us them we go to him to resue and Pulled his bike by toaging 40 km. Its tottaly bad experience. I think we should use the bike as company given.
If the manufacturer won't replace it for normal use, the manufacturer cannot be trusted to have quality products 😂
never buy cheap things when your life depends on them
My Can Am Spyder RT Limited uses a belt. When I picked it up from the dealer brand new, I had a hole in the belt caused by a stone from roadworks within 700km. I was livid - it cost NZ$800 to replace the belt.
Thank you, I wasn't aware of how the inefficiencies compared.