For anyone looking in the comments to see if any of the issues with this version have been fixed, no, nothing has changed yet. If anything does get fixed then this comment will be updated (but don't get your hopes up). One small note though, the blue gauntlets in fire temple thing only happens in the Japanese version. Even though the JP and EN roms are 100% identical besides text, there are certain emulator hacks, mainly texture replacements, that are for some reason not applied to all version of the emulator. Everything else in this video happens on all regions though. *****UPDATE 1/20/2022: The water in dark links room is now transparent so you can see the reflection again (though the water is still darker than it should be) twitter.com/zfg111/status/1484376177804410882 No changes to the fog, and the weird blue gauntlets in fire temple in the JP version is still there. It was originally thought that the input lag was improved, though this has since been proven incorrect, the input lag is still the same twitter.com/zfg111/status/1486523759062237187 *****UPDATE 2/26/2022: The fog has been fixed and the input lag has been slightly improved, though its still bad. More information in this video + info about MM ua-cam.com/video/JXnXDQpAQNM/v-deo.html
Either distance fog or depth of field is still necessary in a lot of modern games, it literally looks better in most cases You'd have to be dumb to remove it just because you can from such an old game
Yeah fog was quite literally for performance in the game. But it's being emulated on probably something different what's been used before. I think the weird differences with fog still being in some areas even when it shouldn't and not others has to do with the weird way the N64 handled depth calculation. It's something that can't be fully emulated properly/accurately to this day.
I'm genuinely impressed with Nintendo right now. I didn't think they could possibly make the expansion pack any worse value, but somehow they did it. Cheers, Furukawa.
@@alinepiroutek8932 Strange to think that Nintendo has rapidly gotten more scummy with his passing. But I guess it was good that he wasn't a businessman by blood. At least he made sure shit worked properly
No they are comparing it to games we play now, not then. The original had a 0.5 secons input delay and there is a 0.034 ms difference, stop complaining and do the *full* research
not a first. in animal crossing they forgot to put tropical fruit on a tropical island and in mario party they forgot to put expansive boards in the game.
ZFG! Is there anyway of personally contacting you? I know of a glitch I found in majoras mask when I was vary young and to this day I have never seen anyone replicate it. Even works on the 3ds remake. Its a glitch with a specific enemy that breaks there animation and the enemy continues to grow until it becomes invisible due to how big it is.
as someone who was very awed by the whole Dark Link encounter: the lack of fog, lack of reflection, and the changes to the water... it is just downright depressing that some people's first experience is going to be /that/ instead of what I had
Felt the same. This is one of the best boss fight in terms of atmosphere in the game and the whole saga, and this cannot works without the reflection. They broke the whole metaphor.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Anti-Aliasing is only applied to in-game render like character models and the world. They could've up-scaled and made the UI texture smoother.
To be fair, a speedrunner's opinion is almost always vastly different than the opinions of the average consumer. Like, how many of us actually think about input lag? We're Nintendo fans, not competitive fighting game players.
@@PrimeTF good luck with the parts that require precise inputs. Also, the way the game feels will have an impact in the perception of the "average consumer"
I'm not sure what's sadder. The fact that Nintendo actually made this *emulated* port this badly, or that people are actually defending Nintendo for mucking up to this degree.
The fog and broken reflections in the Dark Link room are the only annoying annoying things for me. The input lag isn't really a problem for a casual player. I grew up with the GC version so I can't really tell the difference as that also had slight input lag. I've played the N64 version on emulators, but obviously there will still be input lag for emulators so again I couldn't tell the difference. Maybe one day I'll get a N64 to see the real difference.
@@DrWillz1996 the GC's input lag isn't as bad as the Wii and Switch's though. It's comparable to a good emulators, well a great emulator can be even better than GC. All the versions (even N64) crash a lot randomly too, lol.
@@TheMountainMan-wz8xf If I'm not mistaken, 3D was derived from the original engine and reused a lot of the original source code, which is why a lot of glitches in the original are still present as well as a couple of bugs related to the higher framerate.
In older games, fog was a limitation, it was used to hide the poor draw distance, now, games don't need it that much. However, many classic games used this limitation in a good way, fog was part of the ambience, Silent Hill is not on this service, but it was a good example of making the fog a great gameplay mechanic to make the game scarier.
people might sleep on the whole "input delay" and "oversensitivity" issues, but these were the exact reasons I dropped my casual playthrough of Donkey Kong 64. I wasn't being impatient, but there was a bridge that I just couldn't cross after like 6 attempts (requiring me to scale the room again each attempt), and found out that it was much easier to make it on original hardware, so I just gave up. having good controls matters for casuals.
Nintendo never learns. Take SM 64 rereleases like in SM 3D All Stars. They had an opportunity to provide better, less crappy camera controls. Did they? NOPE.
Also, over sensitivity. Its bad enough for me with modern games because of tiny tremors I have that make precise joystick movements a bit more difficult.
Another fun note, this game has rumble, and it has been noticed that when something causes a rumble (ie, bonking into a wall), the rumble noticeably happens slightly before you see the action that caused it on screen (the controller will rumble before you see link hit the wall). This means that the game seems to actually be acknowledging your input and processing it/updating the game state with less latency, but the rendering is delayed. Obviously this still manifests as input lag, but the fact that it's actually processing inputs with less latency is notable.
Ikr its a 3D generation an the people who hold there nostalgia should just stay on N64 roms whatever u play switch an also have the 3D versions on switch i swear this nintendo ever since game boy an they become rich they're just so lazy an are beating a super dead horse on there franchises like no improvements nothing for it being on switch
Without the fog it kinda gives a similar mental effect to if you're playing a game in fullbright mode (as in theres no lighting and everything is fully lit)
To my knowledge, the fog also played a role with draw distance too. It basically made it not so obvious that the game didn't render things past a certain distance (to improve performance) by giving something besides an open area to look at. I guess Nintendo felt that since the Switch is way more than capable of rendering the entire game at once, draw distance fog wasn't so necessary-- but it played an aesthetic/ambience role too.
@@Evarakeus well Morrowind is also more of an AARPG (Action/Adventure RPG) where LoZ is more of a puzzle RPG. This actually plays a huge part because the #1 thing players look hard at in AARPG’s is the lands around them and their character’s appearance. You’re trying to find that fat loot in games like Morrowind. While in LoZ games, you already have the understanding that in casual play, you’re guaranteed the next tier of items through either an optional sub quest, or part of the dungeon to solve the rest of the dungeon’s puzzles. Even though Morrowind didn’t age quite as well as OoT (IMO) because LoZ uses cell shading (which holds up to time better) where TES uses photorealism, back in the day it was considered one of the most graphically advanced games and partly because of the water texture, but also because the dust storms and atmospheric fogs were distractions from the low draw distance
So many titles were/are carried aesthetically by their use of fog. It's a shame that Nintendo, konami, etc. See it fit to often remove fog because it was a means to render less and increase performance back on old systems. Silent hill 2 without fog looks and plays terribly, so does OOT. The levels weren't designed to be visable all at once, it makes everything seem flat and boring.
It was said that Silent Hill 2&3 HD de-masters for the PS3 were based off unfinished builds of the games, because Konami lost the last versions of the game _(remember something about not being able to access them due to passwords or something)._ The unfinished look of most stuff wasn't due to _"More detail is BETTER!"_ but actually because it WAS unfinished.
Man, the moment before you fight dark link you can actually see him on his island in the reflection of the water as you walk past, and when you turn around he's no longer just a reflection he ls actually there. experiencing that for the first time is one of my favourite early gaming memories. I guess for anyone who plays it now it'll just look like he appeared out of nowhere. What an amazing gaming moment they've decided to ruin
at this rate, the future iterations of oot on the next-next gen systems should be so deteriorated that they'll basically be new versions of OOT. Old gamers will have fun seeing how bad, glitched and messe dup they are and new players will either A.) get wise that the versions suck B.) defend the versions with their life C.) play the versions ignorantly and not understand why the originals were decent in the first place.
I have completed Ocarina of Time many times on both N64 and WIIU and never noticed a difference between the two versions (aside from the islamic chanting and Gerudo moon logo). So, I am genuinely asking, why do you consider the Wii U version worst than N64?
@@aaronmoses6085 mainly for speed running but also it has an insane amount of input delay compared to WiiVC,it’s prone to crashes and overall bad emulation
@@blob4477 Thanks for the answer, I guess I am too much a casual gamer to notice those things and I have been lucky enough to not have crashes during my playthroughs
@@aaronmoses6085 nothing wrong with being casual or not noticing it, but when I did my casual play through on the wii u be I realised how bad it was and it’s worse with Majoras mask
Its unfortunate that this will be some people's first experience with OoT. Obviously I think old players can come and play it and have a decent time, but newer players will have a slightly different experience. Although its small, things like the fog and the reflection in the Dark Link pool being different really diminishes the immersion of the gameplay. Some of these changes are just... baffling, and I hope they change it in future updates. I hope people will either go for the original or the 3DS remakes to play it. Edit: since people are annoying in the comments, I dont think some of the visual changes will be noticed by first time players, I just meant that its weird that they were changed as they change the "polish" of the original game. And by "polish" I just mean details & immersion. When I said "new players will have a different experience" I meant that & the control issues the video is talking about.
That’s because these changes aren’t intentional. These are emulation errors. Meaning they broke shit they didn’t mean to break because they’re too damn stupid to actually compare to either original hardware versions or older emulation they themselves did
@@majestic-skies Until you realize that so much of the N64 is proprietary that they would have to build a virtual machine of it to make it accurate. No emulator is or ever will be fully accurate, this one is still mediocre though.
I think it's just a bad look on nintendo's part to have people pay for these games and have them be emulated as poorly as it seems a few of them are. People were already saying the price is too high for this service, but to get an inferior port to boot just speaks volumes for how nintendo handles some of its legacy content.
Starting playing this yesterday.. first time since the late 90s. My first thought was "wow the controls in the OG were way worse than I remember". Glad it's not me, and I'm not the only one thinking about the sensitivity. Trying to do the slingshot challenge in Hyrule Village is INFURIATING with the lag and sensitivity.
It's funny... I'm just a casual player when it comes to Zelda games, but I would trust a speedrunner to notice all those details and differences, actually. I've got nothing but respect for the speedrunning community. Man... Nintendo's doing a good job at making that 30$ increase seem even more "bitter" than it already was. And "bitter" is the nicest word I'm able to use here. Thanks for the analysis, though.
@@koca6685 That's actually more debatable. Yeah, the actual online service sucks and I wish they'd improve it, but other than that, 20$ a year seems acceptable to gain free access to all those NES and SNES games. I'm a big retro-gaming fan and I use those 2 apps often.
@@eliselara6247 Because you're meant to be paying the 20$ for the online services and the access to NES and SNES games are meant to be a bonus? I don't know if it counts as a "rent" if your access to them is literally unlimited. I could play those retro games for the entire year of my online subscription if I wanted to. Hundreds of hours of entertainment for 20$ a year might as well be free. Especially considering how the NES and SNES emulators are actually good, unlike the N64 one.
Tbf the amount is significantly lower if you were going to have a base NSO subscription during that time anyway. The value of the expansion is $30 for an individual subscription. The number changes to $120, but the sentiment does not. Though I’ll add that ZFG said the other games seemed mostly fine. The service should get more games over time as well.
@@MyPupTobi it will and it’s not mandatory so I don’t get the anger lol. I’m just not gonna buy it till it gets a bigger catalogue. Tons of ppl paid 10-20$ for a single VC game on the wii lol
@@billybobbobson3797 yeah, when that was a thing, I dmot get the anger at all. Just don't buy it. If enough people don't buy it, they will not do something similar. But I have a feeling that most people complaining will get this
@@federicosavorani6320 im more annoyed that theyve always been the leading voice in the crusade against video game piracy but instead of actually offering a decent,, reasonable alternative, they only try pushing the shittiest emulation ive ever seen,, for an absurdly high price at that. and besides, its nintendo, its going to sell well regardless just due to nostalgia alone. At least those people upset about it are offering SOME indication and voice to how shitty of a business practice this all is.
As for many screw ups with Nintendo in the past, this doesn't pass as laziness, but rather incompetence and overworking stuff that doesn't need work. Upscaling too much without proper knowledge probably has some effect on the lag, removal of fog for some reason, some specific code changes, that doesn't happen without they actually taking the time to mess with it. At this point I'm just convinced that Nintendo "Retro" division is made of 10 people that works on this stuff every once in a while with no budget and every time a new console comes they start from scratch.
I like the resolution increasing. I just want the graphical effects to remain intact. Sad thing is, it could easily be in the settings and it is just not for some reason.
@@Medachod Most agree this is the best official looking version of these games excluding remasters, at least something is positive. But yeah, that fog thing is the most Nintendo screw up ever, probably wanting to improve graphics, not doing it right and not giving the option to go back, when no one wanted it and it was less effort to not do anything...
Considering how many little things are tied to the framerate, that’d be a massive undertaking… one that people will go for, sure, but I think 2 years is a bit optimistic for a stable 60fps mod.
And then Nintendo will tear down years of hard work with a cease and desist because they can't properly do an old game justice themselves so nobody can
@@Duskool And then the fans will find a way to work on and release it under the radar anyway, where in a few years it will pop back up into discussion. It will then either be too late for Nintendo to take down all the download links or they just simply don't care about it anymore. So is the long, difficult, and convoluted life cycle of the Nintendo Fan-mod/Fan-game/Fan-anything.
12:07 after some little testings with GIM: -deku nuts (like we do in Defeat Ganon) crashes -deku sticks doesn't crash ! -deku seeds crashes -magic jar crashes There's a way to avoid the crash on N64 by pulling out magic beans/ Zelda's letter. I've only tested with beans on Switch but it helps the game to not crash with deku seeds. it still crashes with Magic jar though (didn't test with deku nuts yet)
The absolute lack of care Nintendo puts into things like this then proceed to have the complete audacity to put the price tag they do is so insane. There's no way that they're literally Nintendo and get shown up by fans who create way better emulators for FREE.
Commercial Emulators for 3d games are usually worse then the fan projects. Fan emulators have had two decades to get N64 emulation to close to as prefect as they could while Nintendo’s devs probably had a year at most to develop this. Not defending it,but given Nintendo’s absolutely anal nature about doing things in house I doubt they would do a closed source fork of something like Project 64.
Honestly, at this point I'm convinced Nintendo is trying to make the casual audience hate older games that way they have an excuse to not port them to newer consoles. Kind of like, "See! I told you older games suck! I was right! You don't want them!" It only makes sense after so much sabotage and negligence on Nintendo's part.
@@hottoast16 I think it's even simpler than you describe. Nintendo just hates their fans and will do anything to spite them because they are an eternal cash cow
@@hottoast16 I mean if you thought this through you'd realize this obviously isn't the case. Nintendo's not going to self-sabotage their highly-respected back catalog when the alternative is to be able to continue to resell them in whatever form. I'd even say it's *impossible* for them to succeed in widely tainting people's memories when you have people that still play these games every day and will be the first to point out any issues. Even in recent memory the emulation of SM64 in the 3D All-Stars collection was notably much better in terms of input lag and performance, so they do have the means and drive to deliver on those things for N64 games. What's happening here is just incompetence and probably some indifference, which is frustrating in itself, but it's not the batshit insane option that you're suggesting. They probably overestimated their own ability to make N64 emulation tools on their own, and on the Switch's less-than ideal hardware for the purpose (more power would make it easier to brute-force more accurate emulation). What really baffles me is that they decided to both introduce this out of nowhere recently and then so quickly roll it out. They put all this pressure on themselves and were wholly unable to deliver, which is just fucking stupid.
It's actually so bizarre how theres no fog, I've just started playing Oot on my aunts old N64 again and the fog just makes it much cooler and adds a nice detail but without it it's just strange.
That sensibility in the "controls" is a problem any time the N64 is emulated. The N64 controller has absurd travel distance and astonishing spring resistance, and thus, games were designed around that analog. Potentiometer based analog sticks feature shorter travel distance and suuuuuuuuper light resistance. Playing a game designed for rarely hitting the farthest cardinal points of the analog, with an analog that is designed to not fight your ass and comfortably hit the max ranges consistently, leads to situations like this one (and paired with the lag....) Not playing devil's advocate here, but be my guest: Try playing smash 64 on any emulator with any controller and you'll have a miserable time, of just dashing and throwing smash attacks, jumping when trying to up tilt. Now, pair it with how small travel distance the joy cons have (and the pro controller as well...).
@@w1l1 no, I'd definitely say that it's their fault. Much of this should have been noted and addressed through playtesting by the emulator devs. This is just another gross example of Nintendo shipping a rushed, broken nostalgia package to grab a quick buck.
@President Moose it`s bad mainly from a speedrunning standpoint. If you`re a casual, then you may think that 3D All Stars is fine and that`s perfectly understandable. After all, 3DAS looks cleaner, has rumble and less few ms of input delay. However, as a speedrunner, all of these don`t really matter except for the worse input delay in the NSO version, because Shindou is just a bad version for speedrunning (worse load times, awful pole physics, no BLJ, etc.). I personally rather play the NSO version over 3DAS, because it`s simply not the Shindou version. Shindou is straight up not a good version in my opinion (takes away a lot of the charm of what makes Mario 64 so special).
@President Moose Oh then that`s fine. The Shindou version basically translates to Rumble Pack version in Japan. The Shindou version of Mario 64 was released about a year after its original 1996 release and was Japan exclusive until it made its way into the Super Mario 3D All Stars collection that was limited time until March 31 of this year. That version contained numerous fixes such as patching the infamous backwards long jump that speedrunners use to do runs below 70 stars, different physics whether you grab poles or trees, added rumble support and Mario saying ''Bye Bye'' instead of the infamous ''So long Gay Bowser''. Mario 64 and Wave Race were the only N64 games that got a Shindou version. One is good (Wave Race 64) and the other is bad (Mario 64) from a speedrunning standpoint. Shindou is a perfectly fine version if you`re just looking to play the game, but for speedrunners like me, Shindou is just trash.
Oh wow, I didn't know the fog was that bad. I played up to the adult link part last night and when I saw Ganondorf like in the video at 6:41 I was spooked. I've never seen him there before, honestly nearly shat myself. The whole thing felt like a weird anti piracy measure meant to scare you a bit.
Yeah. Imagine them actually just straight up copying/stealing one of those anti-piracy meme videos for the next edition of their legacy content. :P (Which wouldn't actually make sense, really, seeing as that release would be considered "official")
not really because n64 to digital on a tv induces a lot of input lag as well, and blown up on an LED screen the n64's resolution is really bad (which is understandable as it's a console from 1996). i think emulating it with something like paraLLE or mupen is a much better choice, you can have crisp visuals, accurate graphics, and better controls overall.
Rgb modding a japanese n64 is pretty easy and getting ossc is pretty inexpensive. But the vast majority of people who would want to play these games are already emulating them on pc, and for ocarina it had almost been fully decompiled so it will see a pc port sometime in the near future. Playing on real hardware on a modern tv is just too expensive for the average person anymore.
Regarding the button binding: - SNES games had rebindable buttons, why can the games (re)released nowadays not consistently have rebindable keys? It basically crushes 2 birds with one stone. It bridges accessability issues as well as removes the part where people are unhappy with the default controls \o/... I mean, the switch-menu rebinds helps a bit, but considering the C-Right issue, it's clearly not a solution for everything. I don't understand Nice overview, thank you :)
@@BoredPodcaster exactly what i was thinking. They created a solution to a problem they purposely left there. Nintendo has become so greedy it's sickening
@@billballinger5622 yeah i know. But we shouldnt settle for this kind of stuff under the excuse that they are the better of the worst thibgs happening. They will just get worse and worse until they are as bad as the worst.
@@xupr4301 no it's like every version ; it crashes when you combine it with a weirdslide (what he usually does in kak after a bad dampe is that) - he does it in the video as well
I have a feeling they are doing this on purpose so when they finally drop a "definitive" version of the game, people will compare them & talk about how much they changed the bad things
The C controls sound like they gave that project to somebody who had some kind of double-blind thing going where neither they or their supervisors had any idea what game they were porting controls for.
"where do we put the C-buttons? we need four buttons...preferably with arrows on them. gah, we'll have to use XY and use a button combo for one of them"
Gamecube had it as X Z Y, so they could have just done X ZR Y. They don't use ZR for anything else anyway. And Z target should be L, not ZL. I can't stand any of the Switch controls anyway, so I already use the GCN alternative adapter that works like a Pro Controller where you have to hold Z button combinations for ZL/ZR and +/-
I had oversensitivity issues on actual N64 when I got one of the Gamecube style analogue stick replacements for my N64 controller. It made aiming in OoT a nightmare.
It just seems like the game was either actually modified, or they just somehow made a really shabby emulator. The guys that not only *own* the n64 source code, but are also *legally allowed to use it?* You'd expect something *beyond* what we can already get with emulators, even on phones nowadays...
Reminder that emulators themselves are completely legal, and if you'd like to play OOT while still supporting Nintendo, consider purchasing the WiiUVC version, then dumping the rom to PC to play on emulators that are superior in every way shape and form. Don't support Nintendo with NSO expansion, if we buy this, Nintendo will continue to shit out garbage because they'll have no reason to improve
All of the "say no emulation, you have to support the greedy megacorp" people seem to have no problem with buying used copies of these old games, which also don't support the megacorp. It's not about supporting the devs (who aren't paid on commission and have gotten all the money they're going to get from this over 20 years ago), it's merely corporate simping.
Hahahahaha! Nope. I have my catidrage and thus I can simply emulate my dumped rom instead. Not gonna pay again for a game I already own but in an inferior version.
yyeahh but we don't want to support present-day nintendo or their incorrect acts. we need to specifically NOT buy this to send a good message. then buy it when they put out a good version, even if we already have it emulated.
@@magicalmidgethorse4730 obviously that's best case scenario, I'm just offering an alternative to people who don't have the tools/resources to do so. You could also just download it from the internet, but some people seem to have a stigma against doing that, so I'm offering a legal alternative
This is for N64. Nintendo would have to pay Grezzo and that’d probably cost a lot more than what people are already angry about. As for controls, that is an issue itself since Nintendo 64 controllers are only available limited versions only.
@A B why though? The 64 version is ugly, has muddy, sloppy, blurry textures and stiff, blocky character models. The 3ds version looks and plays much better and is how the game was intended to be experienced. There’s literally no reason to go back to the N64 version other than nostalgia
well clearly this is the best version as it is the only way to softlock weirdshot superslide without crashing the game. The definitive glitch exhibition version of the game.
I'm just tying to wrap my head around HOW you can miss a bug that goes for an ENTIRE temple? My only theory is they only play tested it in a test ground and not in the actual game itself when they changed the code, and didn't even bother PLAYING the actual game... Like... That's sad. Stay Awes9me
@@dogecoin9562 Sounds right. They've got a shareholders' meeting next week. They doubtlessly rushed this out the door to have a nice little bonus win to present them with, while not giving enough time for any issues to generate sufficiently worrying (for them) noise.
ive been seeing headlines on reddit about things like the input lag or 'incorrect effects' (like Fog or DarkLink's watery room) and i thought "oh, maybe i should Wait on the Expansion Pack"... ...but now that ive heard ZFG's take on it, im thinking i should cancel my 'basic' $20-tier Online Subscription as well...not that Nintendo is going to "feel" much from it, but im still That Disgusted with what theyve done to this masterpiece... its a damn shame that the Gamecube Versions were at least TOLERABLE (at least there was a semi-decent control-mapping on that one), but now its like theyve made a copy of a copy, and then faxed it...theyve broken this game worse than speedrunners do for cryin out loud!
at 6:11 when zfg z-targets for a bit the music distorts either due to poor emulation or it slowing down and causing the sound to pitch-shift (which i guess would also be poor emulation)
So I bought this expansion pack just as it was launched I had an 8 hour trip and was looking forward playing this on my switch. And all of this is 100% accurate. As I was playing inside of me was this feeling of dissapointment :( like you said, it's not unplayable but for this price you expect a whole lot more...
I really dont understand how nintendo's own in house emulation is so bad almost every time they do it, even SM64 is weird.. the game constantly shifts to low ram model of mario, its just so strange that they can't do their own classics justice.
I've never played OOT ever in my life, but I really want to play it at some point. But I actually have to thank Nintendo for making this so overpriced, because if I ever play OOT for the first time, it won't be on this pathetic excuse for an emulation.
It's hilariously amusing to me how anytime someone has an issue with something Nintendo does, fans first instinctually attack them by making personal assumptions on everyone who disagrees with them (IE calling them broke for not paying $30 for old games, claiming that people are just remembering the games to be more responsive than they actually were because of the input lag issues) then the moment they're completely proven wrong about their entire argument, all of a sudden they backpedal, defend their particular situation for buying the pass (IE saying their whole family plays animal crossing so they save money) then play the victim acting like you're attacking them for simply choosing what they want to spend money on when it's literally the opposite and they're the ones who attacked you
it's cognitive bias, similar to anti vaxxers, flat earthers, or people who praise an entity or single person, like trump, a religious god, etc. they become emotionally invested and deluded out of reality, any criticism to their sacred entity is automatically wrong in their mind.
I can't believe I played ocarina on Wii U VC and just thought the incredibly difficult aiming was normal, I would watch ZFG's stream and just assume "oh he's just better at the aiming because he's had practice" damn, I struggled through majora's shooting galleries with the terrible aiming.
I would recommend both games on either the original 64 or 3DS (if you don't mind the changes they made) as they control wonderfully, and the 3DS ones have gyro aiming, which makes it even better!
And this is why I'm never giving up emulating. I mean yeah, I believe you should own the game before you get it in the moral sense, but Nintendo has gone too damn far with watering down these beloved games of ours.
Please nintendo take this pass away and release it when its actually ready. I've not played these games since I was like 8 and I'm 16 now i really want to enjoy these but I dont even want to buy the pass until its actually looking good. The price is already kind of high, now you guys realse the games and they are poorly done? I honestly am disappointed and expected more from them as they usually arnt like this. What I dont understand is for games like ocarina of time, it was already remastered for another console. How did it get worse? Also wasn't mario 64 ported on switch already? How did it get worse.... I mean it's kinda sad when it gets that bad within a few months. I dont want to hate to much because we could just not have these games on switch at all ig, but all I'm saying is I was expecting better.
I'm very sad. I'm a fan of these highlight videos, and you could say ZFG is my favorite rando strea... I mean speed runner! I was hoping to get things working for the OoT speedrunning community to use the switch EMU as another option... hoping it wasent as bad as WiiU. But it seems worse. CaVE will support N64 to a basic degree... but I dont see anyone using it for anything. IDK... maybe disabling all of the custom lua hacks. Ive been able to remove a lot of such customization, but I havent tested anything to know if doing so might make issues better or worse.
As something who played with emulators (practically) my entire life, I hate when they don't let you customize the controls. Every game I play on N64 emulators have different controls attached to them; like Zelda Oot and MM, I put the C-Buttons on the right analog stick, A to B, B to Y and so on. This "offer" (NSO) is out of the question for me.
I haven’t bought an N64-style controller and I don’t think I plan on it… but as far as the button mapping goes, I find that the GameCube controller works a bit better for these N64 games than the regular Switch joycons or pro controller. The position of A and B work better. That being said, I totally agree with you that they should let you customize the controls any way you want. And I’m also mad that you don’t have the option to invert the camera. Airplane controls DO NOT work for me when it comes to shooting a bow and arrow. Playing through this game now is reminding me of why I used to struggle so much hunting down the Big Poes for the last empty bottle back when I was a little kid. The 3DS version later made it so easy in comparison.
When I played this on Wii VC, C-left and C-right were Y and X, and C-down was ZR. Why wasn't that scheme used here? It makes sense and was the way things were on OOT 3D.
it is a terrible emulator but most of his complaints are really irrelevant and out of touch to the common nintendo audience, like he expects speedrunning exploits to work? what? the objective is to get the game to function properly, not improperly. just because he molests game code doesn't mean everyone else does.
@@ChristopherGray00 If the emulator was console accurate, then it would have all the same bugs as N64. But no subsequent release has EVER been that. Not sure why you think that he thinks or is saying that bugs not working the same is bad. He is merely showcasing differences. Every version has had differences. It's nice to know these differences. If anything it's GOOD if some tech doesn't work, because he won't have to run on this shitty version if a lot of the things that allow you to go fast don't line up right.
I'm sure they know how much people love this game... yet they still managed to mess it up. The thing with the fog or the water in the Dark Link room..really unbelievable!
Now imagine what's going to happen to the reputation for classic style Paper Mario games when input lag ruins PM64 on NSO, in conjunction with Kensuke Tanabe's own express distaste for classic PM.
Just realising that we got this instead of a full remake make me so angry and now we probably never gonna see a good OoT on switch, thank you Nintendo!!
@@daniellatorre2490 Which is still a fantastically poor effort compared to most remakes we see in the gaming industry. Nintendo remade OOT on the 3DS so they could do less work than what is required for a full console release and then they pulled one of their most predictable moves and tossed in a few gimmicks to justify it.
Lowkey I was waiting on your opinion of this version before deciding whether to get the Expansion Pack. I'm likely not gonna get it but I'm now curious as to how that Ganondorf cutscene plays out in this version- he's already there before the evil fanfare?
I Hope They Release a future update that could actually fix those issues. I Still think that the emulator was probably rushed and poorly tested. since people was demanding N64 on Switch Online a lot before the last direct. Just a guess tough. monkaHmm
Its Nintendo. It's not going to be fixed. They don't give a shit, they just want the nostalgia bucks that they know the majority of the half-tards that support them will pay. Last thing we need is to pay an extra fee on top of the switch online membership for the privilege of playing 20+ year old games.
Thanks for making a video about this. Even beyond the shoddy quality and the ridiculous price is the fact that we had to wait years for N64 games. And judging by the insultingly slow drip feed of NES and SNES titles, we won’t be getting too many other games any time fast. Games that you’re just renting, not owning, and can have the plug pulled on them any time. I enjoy the OOT remake, but for a faint moment I got excited about playing the N64 version again for the first time in so many years. And yet I also knew they’d fuck it up somehow. Nintendo loves breaking the record on how fast they can speedrun their credibility into the ground. DisappointOurAudience Any%
It looks like “HD” versions of old movies where the ends of sets are clearly seen ‘cause the constructed optical illusions to work with that era’s tech are now GONE GDI. Either REMASTER that game from the ground up or *leave it alone* since it’s just a port (glitches and all) anyway.
That's the funny thing, "they" (I.E. Grezzo) already have rebuilt the game from the ground up, that's the 3DS version, they could've figured out a way to port that instead and we'd have a much better product than what he have now. (yea, I know, N64 emulation, porting OoT3D would need to be a separate thing)
I remember doing a walkthrough of this game on the N64 with my friends who had never played Zelda before. We stayed up for a lil over 24 hours running through the game messing around
Yeah, those changes make Ocarina of Time no longer timeless. Another reason why I preffer the original hardware. Sure, the original N64 console won't have that dream 1080p format, but it still holds well if an HDMI mode's inserted.
From what I can tell, Wii VC and gamecube were competent, even improvements just from accessibility of mods, lag, etc. but every version after that is just... shameful
Wii and Wii U versions are fine. Don't play hot garbage and blame the competent emulation efforts. Hell, RetroArch does it just as good as the original hardware with the accuracy core.
The inevitable decomp port will almost certainly recapture that timeless magic. And when it comes to Switch, it'll absolutely fucking humiliate Nintendo's effort. Why am I getting this weird sense of deja vu from last year? Like, another N64 game that released half-assed on Switch that got an embarrassingly superior fan port?
I spent a lot of my childhood playing Zelda OT. On the original n64 the controls were fluid, just like all Nintendo consoles up to that point. The emulators really struggle with nailing that fluid control feeling. I swear playing on OG hardware, controls feel exactly like they should. I know everyone thinks the N64 controller is horrible, but at the time it was perfectly acceptable, it was strange, but I never struggled with controls on any N64 game.
It's like they've ported straight from Wii to Wii U without fixing the issues, then they've ported the already broken Wii U version to Switch and caused a Fuckfest
The angle the camera has is by far the most distracting thing for me. Everything looks so short! Little Link's legs are so stubby, and some buildings look squished because they weren't meant to be seen from this angle. There's no sense of grandeur that you get from everything towering over you. I still remember an old interview about when they made OOT3D and talked about making sure to keep in the same bugs and glitches that old players would remember and want to try again. Seeing a port this lazy for a classic game that is consistently, to this day, voted the #1 game of all time is insulting, and Nintendo should be ashamed.
That old interview about glitches is a straight up lie though. They patched out most of the glitches that were used in one of Pokey's runs even though most of them would be inconsequential to the casual player.
@@wompastompa3692 It wasn't exactly "patched out," the 3DS version was remade from the ground up using new code. All the old glitches would have to be reimplemented. Grezzo did not, in fact, reimplement the vast majority of the popular glitches, despite their promise to do so.
@@angolin9352 That's wrong info from the same interview, though. It's literally just 1.2 with some extra content like boss rush and updated textures and patched bugs.
For anyone looking in the comments to see if any of the issues with this version have been fixed, no, nothing has changed yet. If anything does get fixed then this comment will be updated (but don't get your hopes up).
One small note though, the blue gauntlets in fire temple thing only happens in the Japanese version. Even though the JP and EN roms are 100% identical besides text, there are certain emulator hacks, mainly texture replacements, that are for some reason not applied to all version of the emulator. Everything else in this video happens on all regions though.
*****UPDATE 1/20/2022: The water in dark links room is now transparent so you can see the reflection again (though the water is still darker than it should be) twitter.com/zfg111/status/1484376177804410882
No changes to the fog, and the weird blue gauntlets in fire temple in the JP version is still there. It was originally thought that the input lag was improved, though this has since been proven incorrect, the input lag is still the same twitter.com/zfg111/status/1486523759062237187
*****UPDATE 2/26/2022: The fog has been fixed and the input lag has been slightly improved, though its still bad. More information in this video + info about MM ua-cam.com/video/JXnXDQpAQNM/v-deo.html
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My friend, is there any way to watch the original full stream of this? I need it so much.
The literal first thing I noticed is the complete lack of fog. The Deku Tree being fully visible is so bad
The funny thing is fog in the distance is way toned down, but plenty of places have fog up close when they shouldn't
Either distance fog or depth of field is still necessary in a lot of modern games, it literally looks better in most cases
You'd have to be dumb to remove it just because you can from such an old game
Noticed it right away too. And the screenshots from the other areas are just depressing. The ambiance is completely gone o_O
I don't mind too much since the rendering distance looks nicer with the aliasing, though I suppose the fog was designed to cover pop-in.
Yeah fog was quite literally for performance in the game. But it's being emulated on probably something different what's been used before. I think the weird differences with fog still being in some areas even when it shouldn't and not others has to do with the weird way the N64 handled depth calculation. It's something that can't be fully emulated properly/accurately to this day.
I'm genuinely impressed with Nintendo right now. I didn't think they could possibly make the expansion pack any worse value, but somehow they did it. Cheers, Furukawa.
I miss Iwata. I was impressive with Mario Tennis 64 on Wii 4 player fullspeed
@@alinepiroutek8932 Yeah, he cared a lot more. It's too bad he had to pass on.
@@alinepiroutek8932 Strange to think that Nintendo has rapidly gotten more scummy with his passing. But I guess it was good that he wasn't a businessman by blood. At least he made sure shit worked properly
@@Fuk99999 Iwata was the soul of the company.
No they are comparing it to games we play now, not then. The original had a 0.5 secons input delay and there is a 0.034 ms difference, stop complaining and do the *full* research
Gosh, it's almost like the devs forgot that N64 games were built around the fog mechanics....
not a first. in animal crossing they forgot to put tropical fruit on a tropical island and in mario party they forgot to put expansive boards in the game.
Mainly because of draw distance issue. Some remastered games look better without it nowadays like Turok 2 but others suffer like Ocarina of Time.
Not just N64. PS1 and probably Sega Saturn did this as well, mainly to control draw distance at the time.
just imagining the average player stumbling on this video where you have hookshot on C-down as child but no slingshot
Already seeing comments like that lol, wasn't thinking about that when making this.
ZFG! Is there anyway of personally contacting you? I know of a glitch I found in majoras mask when I was vary young and to this day I have never seen anyone replicate it. Even works on the 3ds remake. Its a glitch with a specific enemy that breaks there animation and the enemy continues to grow until it becomes invisible due to how big it is.
@@teleportingkitten1324 His twitter is in the description
@@teleportingkitten1324 Are you sure that's not because it was in OoT and it involved making Stalchild get too large for the game to display it?
I was confused as well but then I remembered who we’re dealing with here
as someone who was very awed by the whole Dark Link encounter: the lack of fog, lack of reflection, and the changes to the water... it is just downright depressing that some people's first experience is going to be /that/ instead of what I had
You're absolutely right! That room felt so tranquil and mysterious.
All of that is completely lost in this version.
Felt the same. This is one of the best boss fight in terms of atmosphere in the game and the whole saga, and this cannot works without the reflection. They broke the whole metaphor.
Literally one of the most iconic and memorable fights in the game, and now it looks like dogwater
Exactly what i was thinking on Tuesday after hearing about all of this.
As if I'm letting any kid on my orbit play *this* version first.
ZFG: let's start with the good stuff.
Less than a minute in: That's where the good stuff ends. Oof.
The good stuff ended by 0:22 LUL Not even 30 seconds
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Anti-Aliasing is only applied to in-game render like character models and the world. They could've up-scaled and made the UI texture smoother.
Oof = Ocarina of Failure
To be fair, a speedrunner's opinion is almost always vastly different than the opinions of the average consumer. Like, how many of us actually think about input lag? We're Nintendo fans, not competitive fighting game players.
@@PrimeTF good luck with the parts that require precise inputs. Also, the way the game feels will have an impact in the perception of the "average consumer"
Weird to see Ganondorf just standing there without the fog.
He's just standing there... menacingly.
it looks so silly now. without the fog at the start and his nose protruding out of it he just looks like a goof.
@@Dinofly4 dang it, i was going to say that.
Is it bad that I kinda like it like that? I know it’s less ‘immersive’ but I find it hilarious
Suavé
I can't believed they buffed asschest
W o w
This comment is a wild read for someone who knows nothing about speedrunning.
No more Dampe race?
They buffed the Luigi Ladder
What is asschest?
I'm not sure what's sadder. The fact that Nintendo actually made this *emulated* port this badly, or that people are actually defending Nintendo for mucking up to this degree.
sure it will be fixed in time dont like it dont buy it
@@joshpalaro9098 congrats on being part of the problem
“It doesn’t happen to me so it’s fine I don’t see the problem”
@@hit9819 exactly, one of THOSE people.
@@joshpalaro9098 You clearly missed the point of what they just said.
okay, the fog part truly angers me. destroying the atmosphere of oot is a crime
The fog and broken reflections in the Dark Link room are the only annoying annoying things for me. The input lag isn't really a problem for a casual player. I grew up with the GC version so I can't really tell the difference as that also had slight input lag. I've played the N64 version on emulators, but obviously there will still be input lag for emulators so again I couldn't tell the difference. Maybe one day I'll get a N64 to see the real difference.
@@DrWillz1996 the GC's input lag isn't as bad as the Wii and Switch's though. It's comparable to a good emulators, well a great emulator can be even better than GC. All the versions (even N64) crash a lot randomly too, lol.
@@PKSkyler What version was 3D based on? Or was it built from the ground up?
@@TheMountainMan-wz8xf it was an entirely new engine iirc.
@@TheMountainMan-wz8xf If I'm not mistaken, 3D was derived from the original engine and reused a lot of the original source code, which is why a lot of glitches in the original are still present as well as a couple of bugs related to the higher framerate.
In older games, fog was a limitation, it was used to hide the poor draw distance, now, games don't need it that much.
However, many classic games used this limitation in a good way, fog was part of the ambience, Silent Hill is not on this service, but it was a good example of making the fog a great gameplay mechanic to make the game scarier.
Relax bro
@@Justin-uc8sc he is just stating his case. No need to get defensive
Reminds me of the silent hill hd collection that REMOVED the fog
Man that thing was a mess
@@valletas Considering how good the recent Castlevania collections have been, hopefully someday Konami gives Silent Hill the ports those games deserve
@@zeroattentiongaming820 I think they can't do that for SH because they threw away the source code for those games
people might sleep on the whole "input delay" and "oversensitivity" issues, but these were the exact reasons I dropped my casual playthrough of Donkey Kong 64. I wasn't being impatient, but there was a bridge that I just couldn't cross after like 6 attempts (requiring me to scale the room again each attempt), and found out that it was much easier to make it on original hardware, so I just gave up.
having good controls matters for casuals.
The Final Slot machine minigame in DK64 is literally impossible without cheesing via emulator pause on WIIU
Casuals aren’t stupid. They can detect when games don’t feel good to play, it’s just that they can’t explain it.
Input lag is worse than frame drops
Nintendo never learns. Take SM 64 rereleases like in SM 3D All Stars. They had an opportunity to provide better, less crappy camera controls. Did they? NOPE.
Also, over sensitivity. Its bad enough for me with modern games because of tiny tremors I have that make precise joystick movements a bit more difficult.
So main difference is that OOT on non-Switch is good.
Non-Switch non-Wii U, yeah.
Basically emulator is the way to go
i legit can play a better version of it on the switch already, nintendo needs to get their shit together because this is beyond unacceptable.
@@RandomPerson964 the Wii U is downright tolerable compared to this
@@RandomPerson964 I can aim better on Wii U than this
Another fun note, this game has rumble, and it has been noticed that when something causes a rumble (ie, bonking into a wall), the rumble noticeably happens slightly before you see the action that caused it on screen (the controller will rumble before you see link hit the wall).
This means that the game seems to actually be acknowledging your input and processing it/updating the game state with less latency, but the rendering is delayed.
Obviously this still manifests as input lag, but the fact that it's actually processing inputs with less latency is notable.
So the input lag is less than the display lag. Have you only tested this in docked mode? Have you tried it in handheld mode?
Maaaaaan if they'd kept the fog and the low render range itd have been fine! But noooo we gotta see
E v e r y t h i n g
Nintendo seriously needs to fix this. Imagine being cynical enough as a company to leave like it is now despite the high price.
How
OH NOO, HOW WILL WE GET ON WITH OUR LIVES???
it's amazing that porting OoT 3D could have been a better way to play the game
They still can port it... I hope they do
They really should’ve done that. Oot 3D is way too good to be stuck on a hand held
Ikr its a 3D generation an the people who hold there nostalgia should just stay on N64 roms whatever u play switch an also have the 3D versions on switch i swear this nintendo ever since game boy an they become rich they're just so lazy an are beating a super dead horse on there franchises like no improvements nothing for it being on switch
@Olluic Lantion you’re right
Nah the 3ds version looked horrible the atmosphere made it look alot a Disney game but the original darker theme give it more nostalgia
Without the fog it kinda gives a similar mental effect to if you're playing a game in fullbright mode (as in theres no lighting and everything is fully lit)
To my knowledge, the fog also played a role with draw distance too. It basically made it not so obvious that the game didn't render things past a certain distance (to improve performance) by giving something besides an open area to look at. I guess Nintendo felt that since the Switch is way more than capable of rendering the entire game at once, draw distance fog wasn't so necessary-- but it played an aesthetic/ambience role too.
The game being 480p (original is 240p) without fog actually give me the illusion that it has a greater draw distance
@@point-five-oh6249 This is a very common thing in older games; Morrowind is a particularly notorious example of this
Reminds me a lot of the Wind Waker HD remake, felt way too bright
@@Evarakeus well Morrowind is also more of an AARPG (Action/Adventure RPG) where LoZ is more of a puzzle RPG. This actually plays a huge part because the #1 thing players look hard at in AARPG’s is the lands around them and their character’s appearance. You’re trying to find that fat loot in games like Morrowind.
While in LoZ games, you already have the understanding that in casual play, you’re guaranteed the next tier of items through either an optional sub quest, or part of the dungeon to solve the rest of the dungeon’s puzzles. Even though Morrowind didn’t age quite as well as OoT (IMO) because LoZ uses cell shading (which holds up to time better) where TES uses photorealism, back in the day it was considered one of the most graphically advanced games and partly because of the water texture, but also because the dust storms and atmospheric fogs were distractions from the low draw distance
So many titles were/are carried aesthetically by their use of fog. It's a shame that Nintendo, konami, etc. See it fit to often remove fog because it was a means to render less and increase performance back on old systems. Silent hill 2 without fog looks and plays terribly, so does OOT. The levels weren't designed to be visable all at once, it makes everything seem flat and boring.
don't forget sega did that too with sonic adventure 2's ports
It was said that Silent Hill 2&3 HD de-masters for the PS3 were based off unfinished builds of the games, because Konami lost the last versions of the game _(remember something about not being able to access them due to passwords or something)._ The unfinished look of most stuff wasn't due to _"More detail is BETTER!"_ but actually because it WAS unfinished.
@@ssnsfronunder8234 Wasn't SA1 even worse? There was this Cybershell video about it
@@creepypato3984 i forgot lmao
yeah
That excited “this normally crashes after 5 seconds” actually made my day for some reason
Man, the moment before you fight dark link you can actually see him on his island in the reflection of the water as you walk past, and when you turn around he's no longer just a reflection he ls actually there.
experiencing that for the first time is one of my favourite early gaming memories.
I guess for anyone who plays it now it'll just look like he appeared out of nowhere.
What an amazing gaming moment they've decided to ruin
I’m genuinely impressed with Nintendo on how they made a version WORSE than the WIIU
at this rate, the future iterations of oot on the next-next gen systems should be so deteriorated that they'll basically be new versions of OOT. Old gamers will have fun seeing how bad, glitched and messe dup they are and new players will either A.) get wise that the versions suck B.) defend the versions with their life C.) play the versions ignorantly and not understand why the originals were decent in the first place.
I have completed Ocarina of Time many times on both N64 and WIIU and never noticed a difference between the two versions (aside from the islamic chanting and Gerudo moon logo). So, I am genuinely asking, why do you consider the Wii U version worst than N64?
@@aaronmoses6085 mainly for speed running but also it has an insane amount of input delay compared to WiiVC,it’s prone to crashes and overall bad emulation
@@blob4477 Thanks for the answer, I guess I am too much a casual gamer to notice those things and I have been lucky enough to not have crashes during my playthroughs
@@aaronmoses6085 nothing wrong with being casual or not noticing it, but when I did my casual play through on the wii u be I realised how bad it was and it’s worse with Majoras mask
Its unfortunate that this will be some people's first experience with OoT. Obviously I think old players can come and play it and have a decent time, but newer players will have a slightly different experience. Although its small, things like the fog and the reflection in the Dark Link pool being different really diminishes the immersion of the gameplay. Some of these changes are just... baffling, and I hope they change it in future updates. I hope people will either go for the original or the 3DS remakes to play it.
Edit: since people are annoying in the comments, I dont think some of the visual changes will be noticed by first time players, I just meant that its weird that they were changed as they change the "polish" of the original game. And by "polish" I just mean details & immersion. When I said "new players will have a different experience" I meant that & the control issues the video is talking about.
That’s because these changes aren’t intentional. These are emulation errors. Meaning they broke shit they didn’t mean to break because they’re too damn stupid to actually compare to either original hardware versions or older emulation they themselves did
@Guy Dude We who had the Dreamcast version of SA1 will defend it with honour
no one is going to notice the lack of fog in a 5 minute boss fight on a n64 game, they are missing out on nothing, thats a extremely retarded nitpick
If you're talking about the 3d classics game series, those weren't emulated, they're completely different games from the games they are named after
Keep in mind to mod your 3ds to add to the big ganon shadowed effect that the og 3d omitted.
honestly its embarrassing nintendo cant even emulate their own games that they made 25 years ago with a console that has 100x the processing power...
100x?
That seems way too low.
@@AtomicArtumas could be. I was mostly just making numbers up. It's at least 100x though 😏
@@majestic-skies Until you realize that so much of the N64 is proprietary that they would have to build a virtual machine of it to make it accurate. No emulator is or ever will be fully accurate, this one is still mediocre though.
@@magicowlofbacon9416 excuses excuses. The gamecube ran this game better than the switch lol
@@majestic-skies yeah and there was no stupid button combination for right c
Blue gauntlets must be because Fire Temple uses some unique reflection texture on Link's gauntlets that's missing somehow.
now I wish N64 used the source engine missing texture texture and gave Link purple and black checkered gauntlets
@@jeremyabbott4537 Or his arms were glowing ERROR models. That would've been funny for a bit.
I think it's just a bad look on nintendo's part to have people pay for these games and have them be emulated as poorly as it seems a few of them are. People were already saying the price is too high for this service, but to get an inferior port to boot just speaks volumes for how nintendo handles some of its legacy content.
Yeah might as well get a free better working emulator
@@armoredanteater609 exactly. Nintendo should take lessons from these people as opposed to trying to shut them down.
Starting playing this yesterday.. first time since the late 90s. My first thought was "wow the controls in the OG were way worse than I remember". Glad it's not me, and I'm not the only one thinking about the sensitivity. Trying to do the slingshot challenge in Hyrule Village is INFURIATING with the lag and sensitivity.
It's funny... I'm just a casual player when it comes to Zelda games, but I would trust a speedrunner to notice all those details and differences, actually. I've got nothing but respect for the speedrunning community.
Man... Nintendo's doing a good job at making that 30$ increase seem even more "bitter" than it already was. And "bitter" is the nicest word I'm able to use here.
Thanks for the analysis, though.
Even the regular switch online is not worth it so this was not a surprise to me
@@koca6685 That's actually more debatable. Yeah, the actual online service sucks and I wish they'd improve it, but other than that, 20$ a year seems acceptable to gain free access to all those NES and SNES games. I'm a big retro-gaming fan and I use those 2 apps often.
@@LonesomeDevil renting isn't free, you're giving money for something, how can that something be free?
.....
@@eliselara6247 Because you're meant to be paying the 20$ for the online services and the access to NES and SNES games are meant to be a bonus? I don't know if it counts as a "rent" if your access to them is literally unlimited. I could play those retro games for the entire year of my online subscription if I wanted to. Hundreds of hours of entertainment for 20$ a year might as well be free.
Especially considering how the NES and SNES emulators are actually good, unlike the N64 one.
@@LonesomeDevil but it's not free, it's $20 for online and access to snes and nes. You're paying for both.
that'll be $50 a year plus tip to rent these 4 games.
After four years, you will have paid $200 for these worse-than-2006 versions of n64 emulators.
Bleak!
Tbf the amount is significantly lower if you were going to have a base NSO subscription during that time anyway. The value of the expansion is $30 for an individual subscription. The number changes to $120, but the sentiment does not.
Though I’ll add that ZFG said the other games seemed mostly fine. The service should get more games over time as well.
@@MyPupTobi it will and it’s not mandatory so I don’t get the anger lol. I’m just not gonna buy it till it gets a bigger catalogue. Tons of ppl paid 10-20$ for a single VC game on the wii lol
@@billybobbobson3797 yeah, when that was a thing, I dmot get the anger at all. Just don't buy it. If enough people don't buy it, they will not do something similar. But I have a feeling that most people complaining will get this
@@federicosavorani6320 im more annoyed that theyve always been the leading voice in the crusade against video game piracy
but instead of actually offering a decent,, reasonable alternative, they only try pushing the shittiest emulation ive ever seen,, for an absurdly high price at that.
and besides, its nintendo, its going to sell well regardless just due to nostalgia alone. At least those people upset about it are offering SOME indication and voice to how shitty of a business practice this all is.
As for many screw ups with Nintendo in the past, this doesn't pass as laziness, but rather incompetence and overworking stuff that doesn't need work. Upscaling too much without proper knowledge probably has some effect on the lag, removal of fog for some reason, some specific code changes, that doesn't happen without they actually taking the time to mess with it.
At this point I'm just convinced that Nintendo "Retro" division is made of 10 people that works on this stuff every once in a while with no budget and every time a new console comes they start from scratch.
Yeah, totally agree
Nice PFP by the way
I like the resolution increasing. I just want the graphical effects to remain intact. Sad thing is, it could easily be in the settings and it is just not for some reason.
@@Medachod Most agree this is the best official looking version of these games excluding remasters, at least something is positive.
But yeah, that fog thing is the most Nintendo screw up ever, probably wanting to improve graphics, not doing it right and not giving the option to go back, when no one wanted it and it was less effort to not do anything...
@@briansilva3765 I mean, the lack of fog negatively impacts a lot of scenes and there's also other graphical errors.
Meanwhile, old 3D sonic games are officially on PC running quite fine...
What a world.
Imagine being the best game of the history just to be treated like that ........ damn it, my first down on Switch
Well, considering that the decomp is about 95% done, we could see a PC port in about 2 years with 60fps and 4k support.
Considering how many little things are tied to the framerate, that’d be a massive undertaking… one that people will go for, sure, but I think 2 years is a bit optimistic for a stable 60fps mod.
Its not a mod, but I understand what you're getting at.
Like in mm if you mod the game to have a higher frame rate chus will bounce really fast.
And then Nintendo will tear down years of hard work with a cease and desist because they can't properly do an old game justice themselves so nobody can
@@Duskool And then the fans will find a way to work on and release it under the radar anyway, where in a few years it will pop back up into discussion. It will then either be too late for Nintendo to take down all the download links or they just simply don't care about it anymore. So is the long, difficult, and convoluted life cycle of the Nintendo Fan-mod/Fan-game/Fan-anything.
@@NorthSudan they make the graphics 60fps, not the whole game itself
"We'll start with the good stuff"
As the good stuff is 2% of the video
a few seconds is less than 1%
12:07 after some little testings with GIM:
-deku nuts (like we do in Defeat Ganon) crashes
-deku sticks doesn't crash !
-deku seeds crashes
-magic jar crashes
There's a way to avoid the crash on N64 by pulling out magic beans/ Zelda's letter. I've only tested with beans on Switch but it helps the game to not crash with deku seeds. it still crashes with Magic jar though (didn't test with deku nuts yet)
Also for some stick as adult just works semi normally for me no lags just disappearing textures which come back after putting the stick away
The absolute lack of care Nintendo puts into things like this then proceed to have the complete audacity to put the price tag they do is so insane. There's no way that they're literally Nintendo and get shown up by fans who create way better emulators for FREE.
Commercial Emulators for 3d games are usually worse then the fan projects. Fan emulators have had two decades to get N64 emulation to close to as prefect as they could while Nintendo’s devs probably had a year at most to develop this.
Not defending it,but given Nintendo’s absolutely anal nature about doing things in house I doubt they would do a closed source fork of something like Project 64.
Basically, from both a casual perspective and a speedrunning perspective, this is the worst version of the game to ever be released. Nice
I'm glad I didn't get the NSO upgrade. If they're expecting us to pay for an emulator, they could at least do it properly.
This was a really well done video. I liked the comparison shots between all the versions. Thank you for this ZFG!
Wow, they really did mangle OoT on the Switch. Shameful.
Honestly, at this point I'm convinced Nintendo is trying to make the casual audience hate older games that way they have an excuse to not port them to newer consoles. Kind of like, "See! I told you older games suck! I was right! You don't want them!" It only makes sense after so much sabotage and negligence on Nintendo's part.
@@hottoast16 holy shit this actually kind of make sense to me... it's crazy how low they have fallen if it's true
@@hottoast16 I think it's even simpler than you describe. Nintendo just hates their fans and will do anything to spite them because they are an eternal cash cow
@@hottoast16 "you just need to buy our full priced new product not the 30 bucks pack!"
@@hottoast16 I mean if you thought this through you'd realize this obviously isn't the case. Nintendo's not going to self-sabotage their highly-respected back catalog when the alternative is to be able to continue to resell them in whatever form. I'd even say it's *impossible* for them to succeed in widely tainting people's memories when you have people that still play these games every day and will be the first to point out any issues. Even in recent memory the emulation of SM64 in the 3D All-Stars collection was notably much better in terms of input lag and performance, so they do have the means and drive to deliver on those things for N64 games.
What's happening here is just incompetence and probably some indifference, which is frustrating in itself, but it's not the batshit insane option that you're suggesting. They probably overestimated their own ability to make N64 emulation tools on their own, and on the Switch's less-than ideal hardware for the purpose (more power would make it easier to brute-force more accurate emulation). What really baffles me is that they decided to both introduce this out of nowhere recently and then so quickly roll it out. They put all this pressure on themselves and were wholly unable to deliver, which is just fucking stupid.
It's actually so bizarre how theres no fog, I've just started playing Oot on my aunts old N64 again and the fog just makes it much cooler and adds a nice detail but without it it's just strange.
That sensibility in the "controls" is a problem any time the N64 is emulated.
The N64 controller has absurd travel distance and astonishing spring resistance, and thus, games were designed around that analog.
Potentiometer based analog sticks feature shorter travel distance and suuuuuuuuper light resistance.
Playing a game designed for rarely hitting the farthest cardinal points of the analog, with an analog that is designed to not fight your ass and comfortably hit the max ranges consistently, leads to situations like this one (and paired with the lag....)
Not playing devil's advocate here, but be my guest: Try playing smash 64 on any emulator with any controller and you'll have a miserable time, of just dashing and throwing smash attacks, jumping when trying to up tilt.
Now, pair it with how small travel distance the joy cons have (and the pro controller as well...).
But programmers have gotten to use to putting out crap then fixing it later with a patch and that's shameful do it right the first time
@@Snorlax8801 its literally emulated????? just use a n64 controller to fix it
@@Snorlax8801 programmer here. it’s not *their* fault, however “lazy” you may think they are. blame nintendo’s scheduling if anything.
@@w1l1 yes excuses
@@w1l1 no, I'd definitely say that it's their fault. Much of this should have been noted and addressed through playtesting by the emulator devs. This is just another gross example of Nintendo shipping a rushed, broken nostalgia package to grab a quick buck.
I heard it was bad, this is bad. Especially Mario after selling a better looking version last year. Amazing.
That one was the worst version and the VC somehow managed to top that
@Miror B GOD One word: Shindou.
@President Moose it`s bad mainly from a speedrunning standpoint. If you`re a casual, then you may think that 3D All Stars is fine and that`s perfectly understandable. After all, 3DAS looks cleaner, has rumble and less few ms of input delay. However, as a speedrunner, all of these don`t really matter except for the worse input delay in the NSO version, because Shindou is just a bad version for speedrunning (worse load times, awful pole physics, no BLJ, etc.). I personally rather play the NSO version over 3DAS, because it`s simply not the Shindou version. Shindou is straight up not a good version in my opinion (takes away a lot of the charm of what makes Mario 64 so special).
@President Moose Oh then that`s fine. The Shindou version basically translates to Rumble Pack version in Japan. The Shindou version of Mario 64 was released about a year after its original 1996 release and was Japan exclusive until it made its way into the Super Mario 3D All Stars collection that was limited time until March 31 of this year. That version contained numerous fixes such as patching the infamous backwards long jump that speedrunners use to do runs below 70 stars, different physics whether you grab poles or trees, added rumble support and Mario saying ''Bye Bye'' instead of the infamous ''So long Gay Bowser''. Mario 64 and Wave Race were the only N64 games that got a Shindou version. One is good (Wave Race 64) and the other is bad (Mario 64) from a speedrunning standpoint. Shindou is a perfectly fine version if you`re just looking to play the game, but for speedrunners like me, Shindou is just trash.
The fog just being gone is such a weird thing. Was it incompetence in emulation or a stupid decision by Nintendo? Either way, it sucks.
Could be hardware.
@@ozero00rockon its gotta be the emulation if the GameCube could run it then there's no reason the switch can't
@@beowylfen Possible Emulation on stronger software is an issue.
@@ozero00rockon If the software is running less correctly, then it is by definition weaker software.
@@angolin9352 That makes more sense
I'm convinced they did the button mapping on purpose to get people to buy the N64 controller.
Oh wow, I didn't know the fog was that bad. I played up to the adult link part last night and when I saw Ganondorf like in the video at 6:41 I was spooked. I've never seen him there before, honestly nearly shat myself. The whole thing felt like a weird anti piracy measure meant to scare you a bit.
Yeah. Imagine them actually just straight up copying/stealing one of those anti-piracy meme videos for the next edition of their legacy content. :P
(Which wouldn't actually make sense, really, seeing as that release would be considered "official")
At some point just buying a N64 will be easier for everyone
not really because n64 to digital on a tv induces a lot of input lag as well, and blown up on an LED screen the n64's resolution is really bad (which is understandable as it's a console from 1996).
i think emulating it with something like paraLLE or mupen is a much better choice, you can have crisp visuals, accurate graphics, and better controls overall.
Rgb modding a japanese n64 is pretty easy and getting ossc is pretty inexpensive. But the vast majority of people who would want to play these games are already emulating them on pc, and for ocarina it had almost been fully decompiled so it will see a pc port sometime in the near future. Playing on real hardware on a modern tv is just too expensive for the average person anymore.
Regarding the button binding:
- SNES games had rebindable buttons, why can the games (re)released nowadays not consistently have rebindable keys? It basically crushes 2 birds with one stone. It bridges accessability issues as well as removes the part where people are unhappy with the default controls \o/... I mean, the switch-menu rebinds helps a bit, but considering the C-Right issue, it's clearly not a solution for everything. I don't understand
Nice overview, thank you :)
One word: Money.
If they included a fix then they couldn't sell you the solution (new controller).
@@BoredPodcaster exactly what i was thinking. They created a solution to a problem they purposely left there. Nintendo has become so greedy it's sickening
@@ZelosSama and yet Nintendo is leagues better and less greedy than any other triple A studio. Thats the state of game industry atm
@@billballinger5622 yeah i know. But we shouldnt settle for this kind of stuff under the excuse that they are the better of the worst thibgs happening. They will just get worse and worse until they are as bad as the worst.
Wii U emulators even had remappable buttons. I don't want to enter the Switch menu every time per game.
20 seconds in and that's all the good things about this version, Nintendo, i never expect anything from you and i still get disappointed
Nintendo hates money and also hates customers
@@0y1on no, Nintendo loves money, they know that even doing shit like this they will still get a lot from the fans
@@0y1on nintendo loves money and they don't hate customers, they just don't care about them
@@rubub8455 they hate customers. Just look at how they treat smash
it's been said many times. But Nintendo is the Disney of the video game industry.
l like how hookshot-younglink in this version is just Naruto-running infinitely lmao
Isn't that just normal child hookshot behavior that's in every version?
@@NorthSudan no it literally crashes
@@xupr4301 no it's like every version ; it crashes when you combine it with a weirdslide (what he usually does in kak after a bad dampe is that) - he does it in the video as well
I have a feeling they are doing this on purpose so when they finally drop a "definitive" version of the game, people will compare them & talk about how much they changed the bad things
The C controls sound like they gave that project to somebody who had some kind of double-blind thing going where neither they or their supervisors had any idea what game they were porting controls for.
I immediately noticed the over sensitive controls and the lag. So frustrating.
"where do we put the C-buttons? we need four buttons...preferably with arrows on them. gah, we'll have to use XY and use a button combo for one of them"
Gamecube had it as X Z Y, so they could have just done X ZR Y. They don't use ZR for anything else anyway. And Z target should be L, not ZL.
I can't stand any of the Switch controls anyway, so I already use the GCN alternative adapter that works like a Pro Controller where you have to hold Z button combinations for ZL/ZR and +/-
For real; BotW had a pretty ergonomic control scheme with equipment/abilities/whistling and they just...forgot about it lol
how would you press the c-buttons while moving if they were on the d-pad though
@@skilletcaso you wouldn’t, but tbh there’s no reason to since all items are used when stationary and aimed with the right thumbstick anyway
Or *could* at least
I had oversensitivity issues on actual N64 when I got one of the Gamecube style analogue stick replacements for my N64 controller. It made aiming in OoT a nightmare.
steelsticks64 is apparently the best way to go
@@xaviermcknight1510 Or better (and cheaper), just get Kitsch-Bent replacement parts and rebuild your analog stick that way.
It just seems like the game was either actually modified, or they just somehow made a really shabby emulator. The guys that not only *own* the n64 source code, but are also *legally allowed to use it?* You'd expect something *beyond* what we can already get with emulators, even on phones nowadays...
Reminder that emulators themselves are completely legal, and if you'd like to play OOT while still supporting Nintendo, consider purchasing the WiiUVC version, then dumping the rom to PC to play on emulators that are superior in every way shape and form.
Don't support Nintendo with NSO expansion, if we buy this, Nintendo will continue to shit out garbage because they'll have no reason to improve
All of the "say no emulation, you have to support the greedy megacorp" people seem to have no problem with buying used copies of these old games, which also don't support the megacorp. It's not about supporting the devs (who aren't paid on commission and have gotten all the money they're going to get from this over 20 years ago), it's merely corporate simping.
You are everywhere, especially on Vinesauce.
Hahahahaha!
Nope.
I have my catidrage and thus I can simply emulate my dumped rom instead. Not gonna pay again for a game I already own but in an inferior version.
yyeahh but we don't want to support present-day nintendo or their incorrect acts. we need to specifically NOT buy this to send a good message. then buy it when they put out a good version, even if we already have it emulated.
@@magicalmidgethorse4730 obviously that's best case scenario, I'm just offering an alternative to people who don't have the tools/resources to do so.
You could also just download it from the internet, but some people seem to have a stigma against doing that, so I'm offering a legal alternative
I can't wait for Stick-As-Adult Slow% extension runs.
The audio sounds super garbled too, there's a bunch of pitch bends as if the game has lag spikes every once in a while.
Why didn't they just port the 3ds version and add reconfigurable controls I don't know
This is for N64. Nintendo would have to pay Grezzo and that’d probably cost a lot more than what people are already angry about. As for controls, that is an issue itself since Nintendo 64 controllers are only available limited versions only.
Yeah it’s confusing to me, 3ds version looks good. Maybe just my bias since my childhood experience with oot was on the 3ds
@A B why though? The 64 version is ugly, has muddy, sloppy, blurry textures and stiff, blocky character models. The 3ds version looks and plays much better and is how the game was intended to be experienced. There’s literally no reason to go back to the N64 version other than nostalgia
Because when they are going to add 3ds games they will charge it 50 bucks more. That's why
@@live2draw938 I’ll pay that much to have those games on the switch.
OoT 3D remains the Superior Version to Casuals basicly.
"That'll be 250% the usual price please."
And they wonder why we emulate.
well clearly this is the best version as it is the only way to softlock weirdshot superslide without crashing the game. The definitive glitch exhibition version of the game.
I'm just tying to wrap my head around HOW you can miss a bug that goes for an ENTIRE temple? My only theory is they only play tested it in a test ground and not in the actual game itself when they changed the code, and didn't even bother PLAYING the actual game... Like... That's sad.
Stay Awes9me
I'm pretty sure the whole app is barely tested since the button mapping is so bad and unintuitive
They didn't change anything about the actual game rom. These are mostly emulation issues.
@@dogecoin9562 Sounds right. They've got a shareholders' meeting next week. They doubtlessly rushed this out the door to have a nice little bonus win to present them with, while not giving enough time for any issues to generate sufficiently worrying (for them) noise.
Let's hope Nintendo doesn't say that sensitive controls and input lags aren't actual problems.
ive been seeing headlines on reddit about things like the input lag or 'incorrect effects' (like Fog or DarkLink's watery room) and i thought "oh, maybe i should Wait on the Expansion Pack"...
...but now that ive heard ZFG's take on it, im thinking i should cancel my 'basic' $20-tier Online Subscription as well...not that Nintendo is going to "feel" much from it, but im still That Disgusted with what theyve done to this masterpiece...
its a damn shame that the Gamecube Versions were at least TOLERABLE (at least there was a semi-decent control-mapping on that one), but now its like theyve made a copy of a copy, and then faxed it...theyve broken this game worse than speedrunners do for cryin out loud!
Honestly ever since the Mario all star thing happened I stopped spending too much money on them.
at 6:11 when zfg z-targets for a bit the music distorts either due to poor emulation or it slowing down and causing the sound to pitch-shift (which i guess would also be poor emulation)
So I bought this expansion pack just as it was launched I had an 8 hour trip and was looking forward playing this on my switch. And all of this is 100% accurate. As I was playing inside of me was this feeling of dissapointment :( like you said, it's not unplayable but for this price you expect a whole lot more...
I really dont understand how nintendo's own in house emulation is so bad almost every time they do it, even SM64 is weird.. the game constantly shifts to low ram model of mario, its just so strange that they can't do their own classics justice.
I've never played OOT ever in my life, but I really want to play it at some point. But I actually have to thank Nintendo for making this so overpriced, because if I ever play OOT for the first time, it won't be on this pathetic excuse for an emulation.
Run it on a computer it’s not too complicated with p64
Put on that pirate hat, and head for the seven seas - because that's probably the only way you'll get it! haha
The best version of the game is still the 3ds version
I've played several different versions but my favorite has to be the 3DS version (emulated on pc ofc) using a GC controller
@@ZawZaw-yb3nf I mean tbf Nintendo is also using an emulator for this they just aren't as good at it as we are 😂
It's hilariously amusing to me how anytime someone has an issue with something Nintendo does, fans first instinctually attack them by making personal assumptions on everyone who disagrees with them (IE calling them broke for not paying $30 for old games, claiming that people are just remembering the games to be more responsive than they actually were because of the input lag issues) then the moment they're completely proven wrong about their entire argument, all of a sudden they backpedal, defend their particular situation for buying the pass (IE saying their whole family plays animal crossing so they save money) then play the victim acting like you're attacking them for simply choosing what they want to spend money on when it's literally the opposite and they're the ones who attacked you
it's cognitive bias, similar to anti vaxxers, flat earthers, or people who praise an entity or single person, like trump, a religious god, etc. they become emotionally invested and deluded out of reality, any criticism to their sacred entity is automatically wrong in their mind.
I genuinely thought controls were just worse than remembered. This makes me feel better. But also worse 🥲
I can't believe I played ocarina on Wii U VC and just thought the incredibly difficult aiming was normal, I would watch ZFG's stream and just assume "oh he's just better at the aiming because he's had practice" damn, I struggled through majora's shooting galleries with the terrible aiming.
I would recommend both games on either the original 64 or 3DS (if you don't mind the changes they made) as they control wonderfully, and the 3DS ones have gyro aiming, which makes it even better!
@@jeremyabbott4537 honestly for a casual player, OOT3D is the superior version too imo
Anyone else notice the game music sounding a little glitchy around 11:53? I can hear some warbling on the sustained notes.
Yeah, It wasnt a one off thing too. Earlier parts had the same note issues as well.
Another example of fans doing a better job than Nintendo
and nintendo is PAID to do this
Fans do what Nintendont. Tale as old as time by this point sadly.
And this is why I'm never giving up emulating. I mean yeah, I believe you should own the game before you get it in the moral sense, but Nintendo has gone too damn far with watering down these beloved games of ours.
I’m still gonna play my gold cartridge, and listen to the fire temple chanting.
I’m so glad I once owned, played and completed this masterpiece on N64. This is a disaster for what they want to charge people for this.
Please nintendo take this pass away and release it when its actually ready. I've not played these games since I was like 8 and I'm 16 now i really want to enjoy these but I dont even want to buy the pass until its actually looking good. The price is already kind of high, now you guys realse the games and they are poorly done? I honestly am disappointed and expected more from them as they usually arnt like this. What I dont understand is for games like ocarina of time, it was already remastered for another console. How did it get worse? Also wasn't mario 64 ported on switch already? How did it get worse.... I mean it's kinda sad when it gets that bad within a few months. I dont want to hate to much because we could just not have these games on switch at all ig, but all I'm saying is I was expecting better.
I'm very sad. I'm a fan of these highlight videos, and you could say ZFG is my favorite rando strea... I mean speed runner!
I was hoping to get things working for the OoT speedrunning community to use the switch EMU as another option... hoping it wasent as bad as WiiU. But it seems worse. CaVE will support N64 to a basic degree... but I dont see anyone using it for anything. IDK... maybe disabling all of the custom lua hacks. Ive been able to remove a lot of such customization, but I havent tested anything to know if doing so might make issues better or worse.
What do you mean
Zfg is a metroid dread youtuber
As something who played with emulators (practically) my entire life, I hate when they don't let you customize the controls. Every game I play on N64 emulators have different controls attached to them; like Zelda Oot and MM, I put the C-Buttons on the right analog stick, A to B, B to Y and so on. This "offer" (NSO) is out of the question for me.
I haven’t bought an N64-style controller and I don’t think I plan on it… but as far as the button mapping goes, I find that the GameCube controller works a bit better for these N64 games than the regular Switch joycons or pro controller. The position of A and B work better. That being said, I totally agree with you that they should let you customize the controls any way you want. And I’m also mad that you don’t have the option to invert the camera. Airplane controls DO NOT work for me when it comes to shooting a bow and arrow. Playing through this game now is reminding me of why I used to struggle so much hunting down the Big Poes for the last empty bottle back when I was a little kid. The 3DS version later made it so easy in comparison.
When I played this on Wii VC, C-left and C-right were Y and X, and C-down was ZR. Why wasn't that scheme used here? It makes sense and was the way things were on OOT 3D.
At least ZFG can now do speedruns, Anywhere, Anytime.
Speedruns, MY way
You’ll still have to be connected to internet to verify you have the service
@@MuffinNova You only have to do that every 2 weeks I believe
zfg doing god's work, so we don't have to waste our money
it is a terrible emulator but most of his complaints are really irrelevant and out of touch to the common nintendo audience, like he expects speedrunning exploits to work? what? the objective is to get the game to function properly, not improperly. just because he molests game code doesn't mean everyone else does.
@@ChristopherGray00 If the emulator was console accurate, then it would have all the same bugs as N64. But no subsequent release has EVER been that.
Not sure why you think that he thinks or is saying that bugs not working the same is bad. He is merely showcasing differences. Every version has had differences. It's nice to know these differences.
If anything it's GOOD if some tech doesn't work, because he won't have to run on this shitty version if a lot of the things that allow you to go fast don't line up right.
I'm sure they know how much people love this game... yet they still managed to mess it up.
The thing with the fog or the water in the Dark Link room..really unbelievable!
Now imagine what's going to happen to the reputation for classic style Paper Mario games when input lag ruins PM64 on NSO, in conjunction with Kensuke Tanabe's own express distaste for classic PM.
Just realising that we got this instead of a full remake make me so angry and now we probably never gonna see a good OoT on switch, thank you Nintendo!!
Umm you can already play the remake done for 3ds years ago
@@daniellatorre2490 Which is still a fantastically poor effort compared to most remakes we see in the gaming industry. Nintendo remade OOT on the 3DS so they could do less work than what is required for a full console release and then they pulled one of their most predictable moves and tossed in a few gimmicks to justify it.
Lowkey I was waiting on your opinion of this version before deciding whether to get the Expansion Pack. I'm likely not gonna get it but I'm now curious as to how that Ganondorf cutscene plays out in this version- he's already there before the evil fanfare?
I Hope They Release a future update that could actually fix those issues. I Still think that the emulator was probably rushed and poorly tested. since people was demanding N64 on Switch Online a lot before the last direct. Just a guess tough. monkaHmm
I want this service to be worth it, n64 has alot of good games that'll be ruined by these issues
Its Nintendo. It's not going to be fixed. They don't give a shit, they just want the nostalgia bucks that they know the majority of the half-tards that support them will pay. Last thing we need is to pay an extra fee on top of the switch online membership for the privilege of playing 20+ year old games.
I mean, they appearently made N64 emulation on switch worse instead of better with time. I don't see how that is an issue with rushing.
@@illagevidiot8254 I mean they never even fixed the audio lag in SM64 on SM3DAS, so can't argue with that :P
@@Michael18751 But they fixed the visual bug on the special stages of mario sunshine in 3d all stars so you never know with nintendo.
OoT on UltraHLE was pretty good, and that was >20 years ago
Leave it to Nintendo to screw up, once again, the emulation of their most beloved game.
Thanks for making a video about this. Even beyond the shoddy quality and the ridiculous price is the fact that we had to wait years for N64 games. And judging by the insultingly slow drip feed of NES and SNES titles, we won’t be getting too many other games any time fast. Games that you’re just renting, not owning, and can have the plug pulled on them any time.
I enjoy the OOT remake, but for a faint moment I got excited about playing the N64 version again for the first time in so many years. And yet I also knew they’d fuck it up somehow. Nintendo loves breaking the record on how fast they can speedrun their credibility into the ground. DisappointOurAudience Any%
Basically, if you want a good remade OOT, just play it on 3ds
It looks like “HD” versions of old movies where the ends of sets are clearly seen ‘cause the constructed optical illusions to work with that era’s tech are now GONE
GDI. Either REMASTER that game from the ground up or *leave it alone* since it’s just a port (glitches and all) anyway.
That's the funny thing, "they" (I.E. Grezzo) already have rebuilt the game from the ground up, that's the 3DS version, they could've figured out a way to port that instead and we'd have a much better product than what he have now.
(yea, I know, N64 emulation, porting OoT3D would need to be a separate thing)
@@MugenHeadNinja isn't there an upscaled version of oot 3D that makes the game look practically HD? Why couldn't nintendo do that instead?
because they do not care and have no incentive to care about the most basic aspects of quality
I remember doing a walkthrough of this game on the N64 with my friends who had never played Zelda before. We stayed up for a lil over 24 hours running through the game messing around
N64 games felt like true novel sandboxes wherever you went. No game system will ever really capture that feeling completely ever again.
Yeah, those changes make Ocarina of Time no longer timeless. Another reason why I preffer the original hardware. Sure, the original N64 console won't have that dream 1080p format, but it still holds well if an HDMI mode's inserted.
upscaling is pretty stupid without widescreen on the widescreen switch screen either
The original N64 console with a s-video cable and a retrotink upscaler + scanline mode looks really great
From what I can tell, Wii VC and gamecube were competent, even improvements just from accessibility of mods, lag, etc. but every version after that is just... shameful
Wii and Wii U versions are fine. Don't play hot garbage and blame the competent emulation efforts. Hell, RetroArch does it just as good as the original hardware with the accuracy core.
The inevitable decomp port will almost certainly recapture that timeless magic. And when it comes to Switch, it'll absolutely fucking humiliate Nintendo's effort.
Why am I getting this weird sense of deja vu from last year? Like, another N64 game that released half-assed on Switch that got an embarrassingly superior fan port?
I spent a lot of my childhood playing Zelda OT. On the original n64 the controls were fluid, just like all Nintendo consoles up to that point. The emulators really struggle with nailing that fluid control feeling. I swear playing on OG hardware, controls feel exactly like they should.
I know everyone thinks the N64 controller is horrible, but at the time it was perfectly acceptable, it was strange, but I never struggled with controls on any N64 game.
It's like they've ported straight from Wii to Wii U without fixing the issues, then they've ported the already broken Wii U version to Switch and caused a Fuckfest
My theory is that this is young link from smash ultimate.
You might be on to something... but idk, this link looks pretty blocky to me.
I found you can escape the kokiri forest without do the DK tree in tihs version
Tihs
DK tree...
You made me think of donkey kong tree lol
I can't believe Nintendo finally has their own SADX
200 milliseconds is a hell of a lot of lag, it's 12 frames, which is about twice that of SSBU Quickplay.
The angle the camera has is by far the most distracting thing for me. Everything looks so short! Little Link's legs are so stubby, and some buildings look squished because they weren't meant to be seen from this angle. There's no sense of grandeur that you get from everything towering over you.
I still remember an old interview about when they made OOT3D and talked about making sure to keep in the same bugs and glitches that old players would remember and want to try again. Seeing a port this lazy for a classic game that is consistently, to this day, voted the #1 game of all time is insulting, and Nintendo should be ashamed.
Not sure what you mean because the camera is the exact same as the n64 version. It might be the lack of fog that looks weird
That old interview about glitches is a straight up lie though. They patched out most of the glitches that were used in one of Pokey's runs even though most of them would be inconsequential to the casual player.
@@wompastompa3692 It wasn't exactly "patched out," the 3DS version was remade from the ground up using new code. All the old glitches would have to be reimplemented. Grezzo did not, in fact, reimplement the vast majority of the popular glitches, despite their promise to do so.
@@angolin9352
That's wrong info from the same interview, though. It's literally just 1.2 with some extra content like boss rush and updated textures and patched bugs.